WEBVTT - Badass of the Week Returns, Part One: George Rogers Clark 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:27.600 Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.040 the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:35.120 much for tuning in. That's our super producer, mister Max 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:36.840 Chesapeake Cape Williams. 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:38.880 Which will make sense later, will it? 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:39.720 It? 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:40.080 Will? 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:41.320 It? 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:41.640 Will? 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.640 It'll make I will Will. 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.800 It make sense as it pertains to Max's personality as 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:48.280 a human? 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.880 Oh, that remains to be seen. That's uh, that's mister 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.600 Noel Brown. They called me, uh, they call me Ben 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:01.120 Bollen here for tax purposes. Uh, we won't look into that. 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:02.040 Guys. 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.920 This is very exciting. This week is huge for us 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:13.840 because we are joined with a mythological phenomenal duo, the 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:18.240 co host of bad Ass of the Week. So let 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:24.280 us welcome none other than doctor Pat Larish and the 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.479 returning guest Ben Thompson. 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.119 Hi, guys, thanks for having us back on. We are 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:31.520 excited to be here and tell some fun and bad 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:32.440 stories from history. 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.760 Matt Max, I got to take issue if you're referring 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.560 to Ben as second chair. Ben. That is unacceptable. But 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:39.360 we have to Ben. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:41.840 But Ben's first chair of his bendom. 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.319 You know they can each be that we can have 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.319 co first chairs where they're co chairs. 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.040 I'm Ben three and Ben three in my wife's phone 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.960 because she numbered them in the order that she met them. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.200 One was a coworker, ben to was her volleyball partner. 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.360 I'm Ben three. I was like, I keep we're married. 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:01.160 You gotta change it, just Ben, No, don't, don't. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.280 I disagree. I think historical. 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.960 Naming conventions in uh in in contacts is delightful. I 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.720 think it should always stay the same, never change a thing. 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:11.760 Are you sure it's a three and not like a 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.600 phonetic representation of some sort of guttural sound or something. 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.960 Oh, covered in hot pap. We love it because uh. 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:23.840 We were also talking off air. First off, huge fans 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.000 of Badass of the Week, We were talking off air 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.920 a little bit about your, uh, your earlier work on 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:37.480 the one of the most prominent authors in all of 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.880 the English canon, James Joyce, and we kind of warned 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:46.160 you about our our earlier episode regarding his quite explicit 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:47.320 love letters. 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:54.040 Warrene Slash enticed, we'll see, we'll see how that shakes out. Yeah, 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.520 I think I described that as our only NSFW episode 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.320 to which I was told that's not quite the case. 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.680 But it's definitely our most in s f W episode. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.320 This being a family show, we had to cat. We 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.839 had to uh, what's the word, trigger warning the hell 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:09.560 out of that one. 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.840 Yeah, our we trigger warning the heck out of that. 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:18.000 Our beat button was working over time accounting did right back. 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.880 H James Joyce. 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:25.799 Sarcastic. 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.080 He was into butt stuff. That's all I'm gonna say. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:28.679 I'm gonna leave it. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:34.000 That's a poetic language about farts. So uh before, so, 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.160 Pat and Ben, before you all listen to that episode 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.800 and completely lose all academic respect for us. 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.560 Uh, James Joyce, we would. 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.800 James Joyce, He's he's serious, He's a classic. 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.640 No, I just mean you should lose some academic respect 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:53.640 for him as well, once you. We didn't write the less, 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.000 We just discussed them at length. 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.240 No, I mean, the thing about being an academic is 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.120 that you study. What is there? 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:01.640 You do? It thought up to you. 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.840 Oh, Pat, we don't have time for it, but gosh, 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.440 we want to know your opinions about Finnegan's week in. 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.160 A future conversation. 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:23.680 For now, we are launching into two different tales this week, 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:30.720 which are entirely about people who are bad asses. So ridiculous, Historians. 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:35.760 As you're tuning in, please do check out our friend's show, 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:41.200 Badass of the Week. There's something that was new, I 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:46.560 think to Max Noell and myself. Here a guy named 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:50.520 George Rogers Clark. How does this one start and what 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:51.800 makes them a badass? 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:53.640 And also I just want to point out this. This 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.800 is Badass of the Week week here on Ridiculous History. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.920 Badass of the Week week. It's like the Los Angeles 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:01.800 Angels of Anaheim. 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.160 It's sort of a who's on third kind of situation. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.480 But yes, please do tell let's get right into it. 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:11.240 When I read George Rogers Clark captures five future US States, 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.279 I think of like the Dave Clark five. Like this 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.919 is like describing some sort of jazz band. That is 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:16.520 not the case. 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.960 He's doing some jazz with He's doing some jazz with the. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:24.400 Military Day and Improvisation War, got it. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.680 Yes, exactly, we are doing some of that. So, yes, 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:31.000 it is Badass of the Week week here, and we're 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.640 gonna talk about some cool stuff. Now we've got you know, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.200 we've got America two fifty this year. So at Badass, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.440 we've been doing a lot of We've been doing a 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.880 lot of stuff for US history, American Revolution, that sort 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.640 of thing. And you know, I was trying to think 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.560 of an interesting angle to bring to you, guys, and 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:48.760 one thing that I think doesn't come up as much 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.000 as it should is that America two fifty doesn't happen 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:56.520 without France being involved. So we're gonna have kind of 0:05:56.520 --> 0:06:00.000 a French flavor to these next two episodes. 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.800 Sottle a little herbs to Provence. Perhaps that's right. 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.160 Yes, So that is the plan, and we're going to 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.080 talk about some French involvement in American Revolution in some 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.640 ways that don't normally get recognized. I feel like, but 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.679 that are cool and badass and should we talked about. 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.480 So I guess it's best Seal day. Now. By the 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.320 time we're recording this, we're both like, we're both having 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.640 like collective national sadness, probably more them than us over 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:24.520 the World Cup stuff. 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:31.120 But you know, were they ever really in the running though? 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:31.400 Guys? 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.000 Are the French really known for their football skills? 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:41.039 I don't know, I'm asking, Yeah, they. 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.120 Wanted two World Cups ago and they were running up 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.960 the one before, had no idea good Clearly they. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:46.520 Were like the number one team in the world before 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:46.880 the law. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:49.960 I'm poopooing now that I just died just asking. 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:51.640 I just didn't know, and I think of the French, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.400 I guess I don't think of a football skills. 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.760 And just to just to you know, just because bears mentioning, we, 0:06:57.920 --> 0:06:59.320 you know, as much as we are going to say, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.720 like the French legitimately have a lot of involvement in 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.960 America gaining its independence, we're gonna make a bunch of 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.080 jokes about the French too. I mean, we gotta keep 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:09.720 that theme. 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:10.640 Goal hanging fruits. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.920 Yeah, it's the whole thing. 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:18.200 And one interesting aspect here is despite a lot of 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:22.440 the stereotypes about French culture in the United States, which 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.960 are kind of inherited from World War Two at least, 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:31.680 despite those stereotypes and those you know, kind of fun 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.080 ribbing at your buddies things that we have in this culture. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:42.800 You raise an excellent point, Ben that America reaching dour 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.160 in fifty years, as he said, it wouldn't have happened 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.040 without French intervention. 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:48.840 Is that correct? 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:51.920 That's correct? Yeah, I don't think that's like, I don't 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.560 think that's even up for debates. So even before they 0:07:54.600 --> 0:08:00.640 became involved on an open military perspective. They were sending 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.280 weapons and money and equipment and uniforms. All the rifles 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.720 that we were using were made in France, legally and illegally. 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:09.880 There were there were guys who were like smuggling weapons 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.000 out of France to help help us fight the English. 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.000 You've got Lafayette, You've got you've got a lot of French, 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.800 French influence even before they joined the war officially, and 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.120 then when France and Spain joined the war, things get 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.000 really wild. And that's what we're going to talk about 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.000 in the next uh, in the next part of this, 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.240 in the next episode. So for today, we're gonna be 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.000 kind of in We're gonna kind of be in the 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.679 Continental US current Continental US. I do have my co 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.240 host on with me, doctor Pat Larish and. 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:42.680 Away. 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.319 And one thing that will come up occasionally as well 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:49.800 as I as much as I as much respect as 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:51.719 I have for the French and their ability to help 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.319 us when the American Revolution, Uh, my pronunciation of French 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.319 words is absolutely unacceptable. 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:00.760 I would argue you should lean into it, just really 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:01.560 make a meal. 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.080 Of it right there with you, Ben, Because Pat, do 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.920 you speak French French? Ah? 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.600 Okay, yes, yes, So anytime there's a French word in 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.120 our podcast, I usually just stop talking and then she 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.800 just says the word, or we just record her saying 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:17.240 it so we can just clip it in there. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.960 So in earlier days of this podcast, we had a 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.040 producer named Casey Pegrim, who we still love so well, 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.920 who we always described as a Francophile and a Francophone, 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.800 and he was our our entry point into the world 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:37.600 of French pronunciations. 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:37.880 President of my French club in high school. And I 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:38.720 cannot make that our. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.760 Sound be a headshake and a lowering of the eyes 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.480 anytime we say a French word. And then. 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:51.800 I'll still text Casey on the case to say, hey man, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:56.600 how do you pronounce this? And he'll say you should 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:57.680 get someone else. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.839 To do it. He's a very busy man. 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:04.960 So Ben, take us take us back here. 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:05.440 Okay. 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:09.440 So we know that there is a character named George 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:16.280 Rogers Clark. We know that there is a huge diplomatically 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:22.320 put kerfuffle between various forces as the United States becomes 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:23.400 an emergent nation. 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.680 Ben, can I just say you pronounced the French word 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:26.880 kerfuffle beautifully. 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:37.000 You want to roll a little this. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:43.199 We we obviously know that the the horrors of the 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:48.120 creation of the United States still reverberate today in various iterations. 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:53.360 Uh these you know, you talk in some of your 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:59.120 some of your earlier work, Ben about uh, how American 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:04.000 culture for quite some time sanitized the story right of 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:08.480 the European arrivals. So really paint the picture for us here, 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:12.480 take us through revolution, tell us a little bit about 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:17.760 France's actual involvement, and then you know, can can Pat 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.520 can you and Ben introduce us to this Georgia guy. 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.800 Yes, so we are gonna do that. So we are 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.040 not just gonna kind of deal with We'll deal with 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.280 some stuff that's a little sticky, but I think you know, 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:29.880 we're gonna we're gonna try to find a good way 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.920 to approach it. Mostly we're gonna tell a badass wilderness 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:38.320 survival story, deception, adventure, grizzly bears, diplomacy, Bowie knives, a 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:41.240 guy that you've never heard of before, territory in the 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.080 American Revolution that ended up being five US states almost 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:45.080 without Frank a shot. 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.280 Fantastic. All right, I'm excited, I'm the story. I'm primed 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.880 as in our audience. Yeah, I mean you kind of 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.280 describe in the badness of the weak piece that you 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.640 sent us about this topic, or maybe this is some 0:11:55.679 --> 0:12:00.400 of your notes, this notion of that sanitization that Ben 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:02.120 was that Ben Prime, No. 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.600 That's not fair, that ridiculous history. 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.840 Ben was describing of this sort of Kumbaya moment of 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.520 like we met the Native Americans, we presented them with 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:12.440 marshmallow peeps, and then. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.440 We all held hands in a ring in san Kumbaya. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.440 Yeah, it's a little more complicated and tricky than that. 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.800 No, you say it wasn't entirely above board. 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.760 Are you saying that maybe there was some Yeah, Okay, 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:24.360 let's hear it. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:26.840 So, yeah, let's kind of set the scene of where 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.720 we are here. So we are talking American revolution. We're 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:36.280 talking seventeen seventies. And when people think revolution, they're picturing Boston, Philadelphia, 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.040 New York City, this stamp Act and throwing throw a 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.680 tea into the harbor. But you know, the colonies extend 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.080 out to the Appalachian Mountains. So you have this whole 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:50.840 western section out here. Kentucky is there, right, Virginia extends 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.320 out to the Appalachians. There's people living on the frontier 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.679 here and they've got problems that are not associated with 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.440 the harboring and quartering of soldiers or whatever, dealing with 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.320 grizzly bears. They're dealing with starvation, cold, they're living in 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.520 the mountains. They're being attacked by tribes from the Native nations. 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.160 There is some crazy stuff happening out here, and it's 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.240 a very hard place to live. Now. George Rogers Clark 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:20.240 enters into this area. He's born seventeen fifty two outside Charlottesville, Virginia, 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:24.320 but he ends up moving out to the west, which 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:26.120 at this point is the Appalachian Mountains, is kind of 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:32.200 the border. He is a land surveyor, which sounds like 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:35.440 a pretty chill job. We picture the guys with the 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:39.760 yellow tripods in the in the high vis vests, standing 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.040 at the middle of the road with. 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.240 The lora tiny like a tiny telescope or something, right 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:46.000 they're looking through. 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.720 My dad worked as an assistant to a land surveyor 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.520 some summers when my sister and I were growing up. 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:53.280 And these guys are very chill. 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:53.840 By the way. 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.840 I don't know what your experience was, pat but usually 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:58.360 they're they're kind of a cool head. 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:03.719 Yeah, that's there the diplomatically, but I have not had 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.840 the pleasure, but I am fascinated by their vests and 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.400 their gear, and I'm always kind of wondering, what are 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:09.800 they doing? 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.920 Is it like in the modern version of the land survey? 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:16.400 I guess it's about uh, property bare boundaries and you 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.640 know every line. In the past it would have been 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.200 literally like you know, identifying tracts of land that could 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.080 then be you know, sold way of war. 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.440 Or in the past because there's a there's a note 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.800 that you said here Ben that we cannot lose, which 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:38.080 was you said, our guy George Rogers Clark is out 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.360 in the west. And everybody needs to keep in mind 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.480 that at this point in history, this is pre Lewis 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:49.520 and Clark. Right, we haven't had any uh we haven't 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:55.320 had any official comprehensive exploration by the Europeans over to 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:56.560 the Pacific, for. 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.880 We don't know what's there. Right, You're mapping uncharted mountains, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.280 You're being attacked by wild animals, mountain lions, bears, wolves, 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.760 You're fording rivers that you don't know where they go. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.360 You're making homemade rafts, you're sleeping in the trees to 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.560 stay dry. It's seventeen seventies, right, You're carrying heavy ass 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.800 equipment over mountains and across rivers. You're camping out. You 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.200 don't have like gortech, you don't have like a nice tent. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.480 You're you know, and you're dragging this heavy gear. You're 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.800 charting uncharted land. You don't know what's there. You're trying 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:26.640 to track out stuff for you know, maybe people could 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:28.480 settle here, maybe we can move in here, maybe we 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.920 can turns out people already live there and don't want 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.720 you to live there, well, don't want you to take 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:34.600 their land. That's a problem for you. If you're land 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.440 survey at this time period. It's physically exhausting, it's dangerous, 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.000 and it requires you to kind of be a navigator, 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:47.359 a survivalist, our cartographer. You know, it's math and survival 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:48.120 at the same time. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:50.760 So just to clarify at the end of the day, 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.440 these efforts would have been to map these areas. Like 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.040 what who is he working for? And what would this 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.560 data have have been intended for? Like is he just 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.240 laying out like what's available kind of like getting a 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:05.120 literal lay of the land. I'm curious. 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.120 Yeah, he's kind of making maps for Virginia. He's hired 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.080 by Virginia, the state of Virginia or the colony of 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:13.480 Virginia at this time. And yeah, it's like potential settlements, 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.920 potential you know, we still know what's out there. Right, 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.560 it's here, there'll be monsters, and we've got to figure 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.720 out what's there. And he's he's you know, it's it's 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:25.720 Star Trek Enterprise right right to the world. 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:30.400 Yes, yeah, to boldly go where no European has gone before. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:35.520 And yeah, So he's got all these skills and he's 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.120 using them and this is his background. This is why 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:39.720 he succeeds. 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:40.040 Later. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.880 He doesn't need a map. He made the maps. He understands. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.000 Clark understands the geography of the frontier better than any 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:53.400 random British soldier or bureaucrat sitting behind a desk in Detroit. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.560 Well, I mean it's sort of like you don't really 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.480 you can't really understand the land from a map alone. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.000 Like I'm horrible at directions and a map is honestly 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:05.880 the only thing in mapping on my phone to get 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.200 me places. But when I ride my bike and actually 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.080 like I'm in the streets, it just commits more to 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.960 my mind and I can like actually kind of understand 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.600 the geography a little bitter when I've actually experienced it 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.600 actively as opposed it is like as a passive you know, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:21.760 map follower. 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.399 And I love the Detroit shout out by the way that. 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.680 Detroit is going to feature prominently. Detroit is the It's 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:29.600 where the bad guys are. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:35.280 So also to level set here, how old is our 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:36.200 man George. 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.240 So when the war begins, he's twenty five, He's got 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.880 this curly red hair. He's a big, strong, Virginia dude, 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.480 farm boy kind of thing. He goes through when he's 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.760 in his early twenties. He goes through the Cumberland Gap 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.560 into Kentucky to stake his claim on some lands there, 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:56.040 starts building a life for himself, kind of frontier picture, 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.720 like the log cabin kind of lifestyle. Right, old school 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.760 American Revolution kicks off, and now you know, things are 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:05.960 even more destabilized they were already. He was already in 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:07.440 the middle of nowhere. Now he's in the middle of 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.680 nowhere and in a war. And this kind of comes 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.000 home to him because speaking of Detroit, Detroit is a 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.679 major British fort at this time, and there is a 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.000 guy in chart When the war begins, the guy in 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.160 charge of Detroit is a dude named Henry Hamilton. He's 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:33.800 the Lieutenant governor of the area. Hamilton is kind of 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.000 your classic British you would be the classic bad guy 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:37.480 in the movie. 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:37.760 Here. 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.760 You can picture him right already with the don say 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.280 anything else about him. Picture what this guy looks like. 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.080 A lot of people are picturing the red Coats from 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.760 the film The Patriot, right exactly, who were just cartoonishly 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.200 bad for some reason. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.840 And these guys are cartoonishly bad, yeah right. 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:02.119 Picture him wound a little tight, yes, yeah, So picture 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:09.360 a cartoonishly villainous British Redcoat official officer. And then also 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.639 he's got this right hand man who is a chief 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:20.600 justice named Philippe de Jon. And we've got the you know. 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:32.080 For a stereotypical French name than Philippe. 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:29.440 It's a mustard. 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.200 So there we call them the dynamic duo of Tyranny, 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.280 if we want to continue the cartoon theme. And Hamilton 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.760 he was the mastermind and Dejon was the guy who 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.199 was able to manipulate the law to work in their favor. 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:51.239 He was a gallows judge sidebar. He once sentenced a 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.760 local woman named Anne Wiley to death for the horrendous 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:57.800 crime of petty. 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.760 Theft, oh boy and a real grand standing type fellow 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:06.800 using okay, okay, okay. 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:11.960 So he he sentenced her and her accomplice to death 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:17.560 by hanging, but he couldn't find a hangman. So Justice 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:22.640 de Jan offered to spare Anne Wiley's life if she 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:27.800 would act as the executioner for her accomplice. She agreed, 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.879 and she now keep in mind she is a petty thief, 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:40.440 not a career, you know, professionally traded. So she did 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:47.240 a horrible job. You know, she did a horrible job. Yeah, 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:52.480 and the crowd was absolutely horrified and okay, and she thought, well, 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:54.639 at least I got through that. But once she was 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:56.840 done with that, the judge had her hanged. 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.639 Anyway, can we also just put out now that like, 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.560 what is the alternative to the crowd watching an execution 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.480 being horrified, like when it goes over, when it goes 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:15.680 off with a we're like, yeah. 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.560 Yeah, well also I don't think they sold tickets. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.880 Also fair at this case. 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:24.760 But but how just absolutely malevolent is that? How Colonel 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.760 Kurtz is that to uh say, we'll give you a 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.560 chance to live if you kill someone who is probably 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:33.920 your friend in addition to your being your accomplice. And 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.120 now whoopsie rug pull or, I guess you know, drop 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:39.439 the trap door on you. 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:44.159 Yeah, but where who who executed her? The hang person 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:46.040 kind of popped up all of a sudden. 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:46.840 That's a good question. 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:51.639 That's so good. I don't know, but listeners may be 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:54.400 pleased to know that later on, and this is well 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:58.439 after the events of our main story today. Later he 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:02.040 was actually indicted by his own superiors in Montreal for 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:06.160 illegal acts. But before that happened, he and Hamilton ran 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.480 Detroit like their own little fiefdom. 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:10.600 Okay, I do love to hear that the come up 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:12.120