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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. That's our super producer, mister Max

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Speaker 1: Chesapeake Cape Williams.

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Speaker 2: Which will make sense later, will it?

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Speaker 3: It?

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Speaker 4: Will?

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Speaker 5: It?

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Speaker 6: Will?

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Speaker 1: It'll make I will Will.

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Speaker 6: It make sense as it pertains to Max's personality as

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Speaker 6: a human?

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Speaker 1: Oh, that remains to be seen. That's uh, that's mister

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Speaker 1: Noel Brown. They called me, uh, they call me Ben

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Speaker 1: Bollen here for tax purposes. Uh, we won't look into that.

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Speaker 3: Guys.

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Speaker 1: This is very exciting. This week is huge for us

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Speaker 1: because we are joined with a mythological phenomenal duo, the

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Speaker 1: co host of bad Ass of the Week. So let

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Speaker 1: us welcome none other than doctor Pat Larish and the

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Speaker 1: returning guest Ben Thompson.

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Speaker 4: Hi, guys, thanks for having us back on. We are

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Speaker 4: excited to be here and tell some fun and bad

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Speaker 4: stories from history.

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Speaker 6: Matt Max, I got to take issue if you're referring

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Speaker 6: to Ben as second chair. Ben. That is unacceptable. But

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Speaker 6: we have to Ben.

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Speaker 3: But Ben's first chair of his bendom.

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Speaker 6: You know they can each be that we can have

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Speaker 6: co first chairs where they're co chairs.

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Speaker 4: I'm Ben three and Ben three in my wife's phone

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Speaker 4: because she numbered them in the order that she met them.

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Speaker 4: One was a coworker, ben to was her volleyball partner.

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Speaker 4: I'm Ben three. I was like, I keep we're married.

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Speaker 4: You gotta change it, just Ben, No, don't, don't.

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Speaker 3: I disagree. I think historical.

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Speaker 6: Naming conventions in uh in in contacts is delightful. I

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Speaker 6: think it should always stay the same, never change a thing.

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Speaker 5: Are you sure it's a three and not like a

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Speaker 5: phonetic representation of some sort of guttural sound or something.

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Speaker 1: Oh, covered in hot pap. We love it because uh.

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Speaker 1: We were also talking off air. First off, huge fans

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Speaker 1: of Badass of the Week, We were talking off air

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Speaker 1: a little bit about your, uh, your earlier work on

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Speaker 1: the one of the most prominent authors in all of

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Speaker 1: the English canon, James Joyce, and we kind of warned

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Speaker 1: you about our our earlier episode regarding his quite explicit

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Speaker 1: love letters.

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Speaker 6: Warrene Slash enticed, we'll see, we'll see how that shakes out. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I think I described that as our only NSFW episode

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Speaker 6: to which I was told that's not quite the case.

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Speaker 6: But it's definitely our most in s f W episode.

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Speaker 6: This being a family show, we had to cat. We

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Speaker 6: had to uh, what's the word, trigger warning the hell

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Speaker 6: out of that one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, our we trigger warning the heck out of that.

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Speaker 1: Our beat button was working over time accounting did right back.

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Speaker 4: H James Joyce.

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Speaker 2: Sarcastic.

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Speaker 6: He was into butt stuff. That's all I'm gonna say.

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna leave it.

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Speaker 1: That's a poetic language about farts. So uh before, so,

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Speaker 1: Pat and Ben, before you all listen to that episode

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Speaker 1: and completely lose all academic respect for us.

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Speaker 2: Uh, James Joyce, we would.

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Speaker 5: James Joyce, He's he's serious, He's a classic.

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Speaker 6: No, I just mean you should lose some academic respect

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Speaker 6: for him as well, once you. We didn't write the less,

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Speaker 6: We just discussed them at length.

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Speaker 5: No, I mean, the thing about being an academic is

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Speaker 5: that you study. What is there?

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Speaker 6: You do? It thought up to you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Pat, we don't have time for it, but gosh,

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Speaker 1: we want to know your opinions about Finnegan's week in.

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Speaker 2: A future conversation.

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Speaker 1: For now, we are launching into two different tales this week,

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Speaker 1: which are entirely about people who are bad asses. So ridiculous, Historians.

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Speaker 1: As you're tuning in, please do check out our friend's show,

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Speaker 1: Badass of the Week. There's something that was new, I

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Speaker 1: think to Max Noell and myself. Here a guy named

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Speaker 1: George Rogers Clark. How does this one start and what

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Speaker 1: makes them a badass?

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Speaker 6: And also I just want to point out this. This

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Speaker 6: is Badass of the Week week here on Ridiculous History.

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Speaker 4: Badass of the Week week. It's like the Los Angeles

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Speaker 4: Angels of Anaheim.

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Speaker 6: It's sort of a who's on third kind of situation.

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Speaker 6: But yes, please do tell let's get right into it.

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Speaker 6: When I read George Rogers Clark captures five future US States,

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Speaker 6: I think of like the Dave Clark five. Like this

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Speaker 6: is like describing some sort of jazz band. That is

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Speaker 6: not the case.

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Speaker 4: He's doing some jazz with He's doing some jazz with the.

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Speaker 3: Military Day and Improvisation War, got it.

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Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, we are doing some of that. So, yes,

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Speaker 4: it is Badass of the Week week here, and we're

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Speaker 4: gonna talk about some cool stuff. Now we've got you know,

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Speaker 4: we've got America two fifty this year. So at Badass,

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Speaker 4: we've been doing a lot of We've been doing a

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Speaker 4: lot of stuff for US history, American Revolution, that sort

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Speaker 4: of thing. And you know, I was trying to think

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Speaker 4: of an interesting angle to bring to you, guys, and

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Speaker 4: one thing that I think doesn't come up as much

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Speaker 4: as it should is that America two fifty doesn't happen

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Speaker 4: without France being involved. So we're gonna have kind of

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Speaker 4: a French flavor to these next two episodes.

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Speaker 3: Sottle a little herbs to Provence. Perhaps that's right.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So that is the plan, and we're going to

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Speaker 4: talk about some French involvement in American Revolution in some

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Speaker 4: ways that don't normally get recognized. I feel like, but

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Speaker 4: that are cool and badass and should we talked about.

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Speaker 4: So I guess it's best Seal day. Now. By the

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Speaker 4: time we're recording this, we're both like, we're both having

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Speaker 4: like collective national sadness, probably more them than us over

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Speaker 4: the World Cup stuff.

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Speaker 3: But you know, were they ever really in the running though?

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Speaker 6: Guys?

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Speaker 3: Are the French really known for their football skills?

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Speaker 6: I don't know, I'm asking, Yeah, they.

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Speaker 3: Wanted two World Cups ago and they were running up

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Speaker 3: the one before, had no idea good Clearly they.

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Speaker 4: Were like the number one team in the world before

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Speaker 4: the law.

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Speaker 3: I'm poopooing now that I just died just asking.

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Speaker 6: I just didn't know, and I think of the French,

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Speaker 6: I guess I don't think of a football skills.

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Speaker 4: And just to just to you know, just because bears mentioning, we,

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Speaker 4: you know, as much as we are going to say,

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Speaker 4: like the French legitimately have a lot of involvement in

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Speaker 4: America gaining its independence, we're gonna make a bunch of

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Speaker 4: jokes about the French too. I mean, we gotta keep

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Speaker 4: that theme.

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Speaker 3: Goal hanging fruits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: And one interesting aspect here is despite a lot of

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Speaker 1: the stereotypes about French culture in the United States, which

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Speaker 1: are kind of inherited from World War Two at least,

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Speaker 1: despite those stereotypes and those you know, kind of fun

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Speaker 1: ribbing at your buddies things that we have in this culture.

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Speaker 1: You raise an excellent point, Ben that America reaching dour

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Speaker 1: in fifty years, as he said, it wouldn't have happened

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Speaker 1: without French intervention.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 4: That's correct? Yeah, I don't think that's like, I don't

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Speaker 4: think that's even up for debates. So even before they

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Speaker 4: became involved on an open military perspective. They were sending

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Speaker 4: weapons and money and equipment and uniforms. All the rifles

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Speaker 4: that we were using were made in France, legally and illegally.

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Speaker 4: There were there were guys who were like smuggling weapons

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Speaker 4: out of France to help help us fight the English.

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Speaker 4: You've got Lafayette, You've got you've got a lot of French,

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Speaker 4: French influence even before they joined the war officially, and

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Speaker 4: then when France and Spain joined the war, things get

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Speaker 4: really wild. And that's what we're going to talk about

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Speaker 4: in the next uh, in the next part of this,

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Speaker 4: in the next episode. So for today, we're gonna be

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Speaker 4: kind of in We're gonna kind of be in the

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Speaker 4: Continental US current Continental US. I do have my co

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Speaker 4: host on with me, doctor Pat Larish and.

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Speaker 6: Away.

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Speaker 4: And one thing that will come up occasionally as well

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Speaker 4: as I as much as I as much respect as

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Speaker 4: I have for the French and their ability to help

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Speaker 4: us when the American Revolution, Uh, my pronunciation of French

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Speaker 4: words is absolutely unacceptable.

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Speaker 3: I would argue you should lean into it, just really

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Speaker 3: make a meal.

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Speaker 1: Of it right there with you, Ben, Because Pat, do

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Speaker 1: you speak French French? Ah?

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Speaker 4: Okay, yes, yes, So anytime there's a French word in

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Speaker 4: our podcast, I usually just stop talking and then she

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Speaker 4: just says the word, or we just record her saying

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Speaker 4: it so we can just clip it in there.

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Speaker 6: So in earlier days of this podcast, we had a

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Speaker 6: producer named Casey Pegrim, who we still love so well,

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Speaker 6: who we always described as a Francophile and a Francophone,

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Speaker 6: and he was our our entry point into the world

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Speaker 6: of French pronunciations.

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Speaker 4: President of my French club in high school. And I

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Speaker 4: cannot make that our.

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Speaker 6: Sound be a headshake and a lowering of the eyes

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Speaker 6: anytime we say a French word. And then.

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Speaker 1: I'll still text Casey on the case to say, hey man,

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Speaker 1: how do you pronounce this? And he'll say you should

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Speaker 1: get someone else.

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Speaker 6: To do it. He's a very busy man.

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Speaker 1: So Ben, take us take us back here.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So we know that there is a character named George

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Speaker 1: Rogers Clark. We know that there is a huge diplomatically

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Speaker 1: put kerfuffle between various forces as the United States becomes

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Speaker 1: an emergent nation.

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Speaker 6: Ben, can I just say you pronounced the French word

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Speaker 6: kerfuffle beautifully.

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Speaker 5: You want to roll a little this.

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Speaker 1: We we obviously know that the the horrors of the

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Speaker 1: creation of the United States still reverberate today in various iterations.

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Speaker 1: Uh these you know, you talk in some of your

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Speaker 1: some of your earlier work, Ben about uh, how American

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Speaker 1: culture for quite some time sanitized the story right of

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Speaker 1: the European arrivals. So really paint the picture for us here,

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Speaker 1: take us through revolution, tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 1: France's actual involvement, and then you know, can can Pat

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Speaker 1: can you and Ben introduce us to this Georgia guy.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so we are gonna do that. So we are

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Speaker 4: not just gonna kind of deal with We'll deal with

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Speaker 4: some stuff that's a little sticky, but I think you know,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna we're gonna try to find a good way

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Speaker 4: to approach it. Mostly we're gonna tell a badass wilderness

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Speaker 4: survival story, deception, adventure, grizzly bears, diplomacy, Bowie knives, a

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Speaker 4: guy that you've never heard of before, territory in the

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Speaker 4: American Revolution that ended up being five US states almost

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Speaker 4: without Frank a shot.

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Speaker 6: Fantastic. All right, I'm excited, I'm the story. I'm primed

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Speaker 6: as in our audience. Yeah, I mean you kind of

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Speaker 6: describe in the badness of the weak piece that you

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Speaker 6: sent us about this topic, or maybe this is some

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Speaker 6: of your notes, this notion of that sanitization that Ben

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Speaker 6: was that Ben Prime, No.

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Speaker 3: That's not fair, that ridiculous history.

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Speaker 6: Ben was describing of this sort of Kumbaya moment of

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Speaker 6: like we met the Native Americans, we presented them with

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Speaker 6: marshmallow peeps, and then.

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Speaker 3: We all held hands in a ring in san Kumbaya.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a little more complicated and tricky than that.

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Speaker 3: No, you say it wasn't entirely above board.

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Speaker 6: Are you saying that maybe there was some Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 6: let's hear it.

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, let's kind of set the scene of where

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Speaker 4: we are here. So we are talking American revolution. We're

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Speaker 4: talking seventeen seventies. And when people think revolution, they're picturing Boston, Philadelphia,

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Speaker 4: New York City, this stamp Act and throwing throw a

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Speaker 4: tea into the harbor. But you know, the colonies extend

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Speaker 4: out to the Appalachian Mountains. So you have this whole

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Speaker 4: western section out here. Kentucky is there, right, Virginia extends

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Speaker 4: out to the Appalachians. There's people living on the frontier

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Speaker 4: here and they've got problems that are not associated with

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Speaker 4: the harboring and quartering of soldiers or whatever, dealing with

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Speaker 4: grizzly bears. They're dealing with starvation, cold, they're living in

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Speaker 4: the mountains. They're being attacked by tribes from the Native nations.

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Speaker 4: There is some crazy stuff happening out here, and it's

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Speaker 4: a very hard place to live. Now. George Rogers Clark

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Speaker 4: enters into this area. He's born seventeen fifty two outside Charlottesville, Virginia,

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Speaker 4: but he ends up moving out to the west, which

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Speaker 4: at this point is the Appalachian Mountains, is kind of

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Speaker 4: the border. He is a land surveyor, which sounds like

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Speaker 4: a pretty chill job. We picture the guys with the

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Speaker 4: yellow tripods in the in the high vis vests, standing

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Speaker 4: at the middle of the road with.

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Speaker 6: The lora tiny like a tiny telescope or something, right

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Speaker 6: they're looking through.

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Speaker 5: My dad worked as an assistant to a land surveyor

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Speaker 5: some summers when my sister and I were growing up.

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Speaker 2: And these guys are very chill.

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Speaker 6: By the way.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what your experience was, pat but usually

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Speaker 1: they're they're kind of a cool head.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's there the diplomatically, but I have not had

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Speaker 7: the pleasure, but I am fascinated by their vests and

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Speaker 7: their gear, and I'm always kind of wondering, what are

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Speaker 7: they doing?

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Speaker 6: Is it like in the modern version of the land survey?

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Speaker 6: I guess it's about uh, property bare boundaries and you

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Speaker 6: know every line. In the past it would have been

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Speaker 6: literally like you know, identifying tracts of land that could

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Speaker 6: then be you know, sold way of war.

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Speaker 1: Or in the past because there's a there's a note

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Speaker 1: that you said here Ben that we cannot lose, which

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Speaker 1: was you said, our guy George Rogers Clark is out

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Speaker 1: in the west. And everybody needs to keep in mind

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Speaker 1: that at this point in history, this is pre Lewis

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Speaker 1: and Clark. Right, we haven't had any uh we haven't

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Speaker 1: had any official comprehensive exploration by the Europeans over to

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Speaker 1: the Pacific, for.

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Speaker 4: We don't know what's there. Right, You're mapping uncharted mountains,

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Speaker 4: You're being attacked by wild animals, mountain lions, bears, wolves,

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Speaker 4: You're fording rivers that you don't know where they go.

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Speaker 4: You're making homemade rafts, you're sleeping in the trees to

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Speaker 4: stay dry. It's seventeen seventies, right, You're carrying heavy ass

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Speaker 4: equipment over mountains and across rivers. You're camping out. You

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Speaker 4: don't have like gortech, you don't have like a nice tent.

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Speaker 4: You're you know, and you're dragging this heavy gear. You're

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Speaker 4: charting uncharted land. You don't know what's there. You're trying

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Speaker 4: to track out stuff for you know, maybe people could

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Speaker 4: settle here, maybe we can move in here, maybe we

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Speaker 4: can turns out people already live there and don't want

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Speaker 4: you to live there, well, don't want you to take

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Speaker 4: their land. That's a problem for you. If you're land

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Speaker 4: survey at this time period. It's physically exhausting, it's dangerous,

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Speaker 4: and it requires you to kind of be a navigator,

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Speaker 4: a survivalist, our cartographer. You know, it's math and survival

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Speaker 4: at the same time.

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Speaker 6: So just to clarify at the end of the day,

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Speaker 6: these efforts would have been to map these areas. Like

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Speaker 6: what who is he working for? And what would this

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Speaker 6: data have have been intended for? Like is he just

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Speaker 6: laying out like what's available kind of like getting a

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Speaker 6: literal lay of the land. I'm curious.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's kind of making maps for Virginia. He's hired

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Speaker 4: by Virginia, the state of Virginia or the colony of

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Speaker 4: Virginia at this time. And yeah, it's like potential settlements,

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Speaker 4: potential you know, we still know what's out there. Right,

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Speaker 4: it's here, there'll be monsters, and we've got to figure

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Speaker 4: out what's there. And he's he's you know, it's it's

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Speaker 4: Star Trek Enterprise right right to the world.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, to boldly go where no European has gone before.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, So he's got all these skills and he's

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Speaker 5: using them and this is his background. This is why

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Speaker 5: he succeeds.

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Speaker 6: Later.

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Speaker 5: He doesn't need a map. He made the maps. He understands.

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Speaker 5: Clark understands the geography of the frontier better than any

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Speaker 5: random British soldier or bureaucrat sitting behind a desk in Detroit.

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Speaker 6: Well, I mean it's sort of like you don't really

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Speaker 6: you can't really understand the land from a map alone.

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Speaker 6: Like I'm horrible at directions and a map is honestly

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Speaker 6: the only thing in mapping on my phone to get

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Speaker 6: me places. But when I ride my bike and actually

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Speaker 6: like I'm in the streets, it just commits more to

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Speaker 6: my mind and I can like actually kind of understand

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Speaker 6: the geography a little bitter when I've actually experienced it

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Speaker 6: actively as opposed it is like as a passive you know,

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Speaker 6: map follower.

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Speaker 2: And I love the Detroit shout out by the way that.

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Speaker 4: Detroit is going to feature prominently. Detroit is the It's

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Speaker 4: where the bad guys are.

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Speaker 1: So also to level set here, how old is our

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Speaker 1: man George.

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Speaker 4: So when the war begins, he's twenty five, He's got

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Speaker 4: this curly red hair. He's a big, strong, Virginia dude,

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Speaker 4: farm boy kind of thing. He goes through when he's

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Speaker 4: in his early twenties. He goes through the Cumberland Gap

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Speaker 4: into Kentucky to stake his claim on some lands there,

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Speaker 4: starts building a life for himself, kind of frontier picture,

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Speaker 4: like the log cabin kind of lifestyle. Right, old school

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Speaker 4: American Revolution kicks off, and now you know, things are

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Speaker 4: even more destabilized they were already. He was already in

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Speaker 4: the middle of nowhere. Now he's in the middle of

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Speaker 4: nowhere and in a war. And this kind of comes

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Speaker 4: home to him because speaking of Detroit, Detroit is a

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Speaker 4: major British fort at this time, and there is a

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Speaker 4: guy in chart When the war begins, the guy in

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Speaker 4: charge of Detroit is a dude named Henry Hamilton. He's

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Speaker 4: the Lieutenant governor of the area. Hamilton is kind of

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Speaker 4: your classic British you would be the classic bad guy

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Speaker 4: in the movie.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 4: You can picture him right already with the don say

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Speaker 4: anything else about him. Picture what this guy looks like.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people are picturing the red Coats from

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Speaker 1: the film The Patriot, right exactly, who were just cartoonishly

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Speaker 1: bad for some reason.

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Speaker 4: And these guys are cartoonishly bad, yeah right.

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Speaker 5: Picture him wound a little tight, yes, yeah, So picture

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Speaker 5: a cartoonishly villainous British Redcoat official officer. And then also

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Speaker 5: he's got this right hand man who is a chief

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Speaker 5: justice named Philippe de Jon. And we've got the you know.

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Speaker 6: For a stereotypical French name than Philippe.

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Speaker 2: It's a mustard.

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Speaker 5: So there we call them the dynamic duo of Tyranny,

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Speaker 5: if we want to continue the cartoon theme. And Hamilton

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Speaker 5: he was the mastermind and Dejon was the guy who

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Speaker 5: was able to manipulate the law to work in their favor.

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Speaker 5: He was a gallows judge sidebar. He once sentenced a

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Speaker 5: local woman named Anne Wiley to death for the horrendous

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Speaker 5: crime of petty.

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Speaker 6: Theft, oh boy and a real grand standing type fellow

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Speaker 6: using okay, okay, okay.

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Speaker 5: So he he sentenced her and her accomplice to death

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Speaker 5: by hanging, but he couldn't find a hangman. So Justice

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Speaker 5: de Jan offered to spare Anne Wiley's life if she

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Speaker 5: would act as the executioner for her accomplice. She agreed,

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Speaker 5: and she now keep in mind she is a petty thief,

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Speaker 5: not a career, you know, professionally traded. So she did

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Speaker 5: a horrible job. You know, she did a horrible job. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and the crowd was absolutely horrified and okay, and she thought, well,

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Speaker 5: at least I got through that. But once she was

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Speaker 5: done with that, the judge had her hanged.

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Speaker 6: Anyway, can we also just put out now that like,

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Speaker 6: what is the alternative to the crowd watching an execution

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Speaker 6: being horrified, like when it goes over, when it goes

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Speaker 6: off with a we're like, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well also I don't think they sold tickets.

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Speaker 6: Also fair at this case.

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Speaker 1: But but how just absolutely malevolent is that? How Colonel

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Speaker 1: Kurtz is that to uh say, we'll give you a

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Speaker 1: chance to live if you kill someone who is probably

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Speaker 1: your friend in addition to your being your accomplice. And

389
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 1: now whoopsie rug pull or, I guess you know, drop

390
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Speaker 1: the trap door on you.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, but where who who executed her? The hang person

392
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Speaker 6: kind of popped up all of a sudden.

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Speaker 2: That's a good question.

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Speaker 5: That's so good. I don't know, but listeners may be

395
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 5: pleased to know that later on, and this is well

396
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 5: after the events of our main story today. Later he

397
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 5: was actually indicted by his own superiors in Montreal for

398
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 5: illegal acts. But before that happened, he and Hamilton ran

399
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 5: Detroit like their own little fiefdom.

400
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Speaker 3: Okay, I do love to hear that the come up

401
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 3: and is coming.

402
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 4: Sort of, it will sort of come. It's it's history,

403
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 4: so it's never as clean as it is in the movies.

404
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 4: But but yes, so you've got Dijon and you've got Hamilton.

405
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 4: And Hamilton has a nickname. When the war begins, they

406
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Speaker 4: call him hair buyer Hamilton because he the war begins,

407
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 4: he doesn't have a lot of soldiers. He's got maybe

408
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Speaker 4: five six hundred guys British soldiers with him. He's managing

409
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 4: five states worth of territory. Ill like the entire basically

410
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 4: the entire Midwest. He's operating out of Detroit here, and

411
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 4: so he sends out a call that says, uh, you know,

412
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Speaker 4: any any warrior that brings me a scalp, I'll pay

413
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Speaker 4: money for it regard and like no questions asked, right,

414
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 4: So any scout which.

415
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Speaker 6: Is up to a lot of not that the goods

416
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 6: the normal version of that is good. But like I

417
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 6: guess he could just be scalping taking scalps from anybody

418
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Speaker 6: on the ball.

419
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Speaker 4: He's bring me some hair and I'll give you money

420
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Speaker 4: for it.

421
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, and Hamilton hair buyer. Hamilton, on the one hand,

422
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 5: he's actually, as we know, a talented amateur sketch artist

423
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 5: who has drawn some nice, realistic looking, respectful sketches of

424
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Speaker 5: a lot of the leaders of the local Native American nations,

425
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 5: the local Shawnee, Miami, and Wyandotte leaders. Some of these

426
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 5: are still preserved at Harvard today. On the one hand,

427
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 5: we've got that. And on the other hand, while Hamilton

428
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 5: is drawing these nice portraits for his sketch book, he's

429
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 5: also taking their very real existential struggle against colonial expansionism

430
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 5: as a cheap proxy weapon. And Hamilton, I imagine him

431
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 5: sitting safely by d Strong Wooden Walls sipping his tea,

432
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 5: offering cash and supplies to tribes to fight a war

433
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Speaker 5: that he didn't want to risk his own regular British

434
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Speaker 5: troops on. So the Shawnee, the Miami, the Delaware are

435
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 5: sovereign nations. They're fighting a desperate war to keep aggressive

436
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 5: American settlers off of their ancestral lands. And you know,

437
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 5: life is complicated, history is complicated. So even while this

438
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 5: is going on, and even while hairbyer Hamilton is buying

439
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 5: hair as we're calling it, we do know that some

440
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 5: of the tribal elders were actually speaking against the practice

441
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 5: of selling scalps to Hamilton because they thought it was

442
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 5: on many levels a bad idea, including politically it was

443
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 5: actually probably not a good plan in addition to other considerations.

444
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 5: But even with a shared distrust of the Americans, you know,

445
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 5: Hamilton is, when you get down to it, he's a

446
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 5: wealthy imperial bureaucrat who's exploiting their aspiration for the purposes

447
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 5: of the British crown.

448
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 6: Now that's fascinating because I'm picturing when I'm picturing people

449
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 6: buying scalps, I'm picturing them paying for Native American scalps,

450
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 6: you know, from from troops, Like that's sort of the

451
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 6: version of that that I'm used to hearing about. So

452
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 6: this is the opposite. He's paying Native Americans for.

453
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 4: Scalps, scalp American settlers, settlers.

454
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 3: Got it diabolical.

455
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: Add to that the the inter scene or intercommunity violence

456
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: between some indigenous groups.

457
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 6: Oh, no question. And just just that influence and that

458
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 6: monetary component potentially throwing their civilization or their society and rules.

459
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 4: It's a really interesting thing to keep in mind, and

460
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 4: it's going to come up a lot once we start

461
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 4: getting into the French involvement here, because these are not

462
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 4: you know a lot of times when you read about

463
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 4: this in history, get it gets kind of limped in

464
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 4: as like the British allies. Right, you have, right, it's

465
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 4: the the Native American tribes. But you're looking at several

466
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 4: tribes here, right. We've got the Shawnee, We've got the Miami,

467
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 4: the yan Dot, we've got the Delaware. These are different

468
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 4: tribes that are their own political units, and they're trying

469
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 4: to figure out what do I need to do, who

470
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 4: do I need to side with to not have to

471
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 4: not lose my lands, to the colonial invaders. But also

472
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 4: I don't want these guys have complex relationships with each other, right,

473
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 4: I don't want if the Delaware is going to take

474
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 4: this guy up on all this money, that suddenly they're

475
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 4: going to become way more powerful because they're gonna get

476
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 4: all this money, right, And so how do we negotiate

477
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 4: this thing?

478
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 6: Right?

479
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 4: So there's a whole Game of Thrones thing happening here

480
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 4: that is much more complicated than just like the British

481
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 4: Allies were attacking settlers. And it's worth mentioning when we

482
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 4: talk about this stuff. So for Clark, he's living in

483
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 4: Kentucky with his friends. They're being raided. Things go nuts

484
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 4: once the war starts and there are a lot more

485
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 4: attacks than normal. His already difficult life is getting more difficult.

486
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 4: So he goes to the governor of Virginia, Patrick Henry,

487
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 4: who was his boss, the surveyor, and he says, look,

488
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 4: I want to go get this hair buyer guy. I

489
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 4: want to go take care of him. And Patrick Henry says, yeah,

490
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 4: go for it, man, have fun.

491
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: That's also, by the way, fellow ridiculous historians, Ben just

492
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: gave us a verbatim quote in Patrick Henry's actual accent.

493
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 4: Yes, good luck, go in the war. Can you give

494
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: me some men or some some gears, some money? No, no,

495
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 4: I don't have any of that.

496
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: Oh no, he just co signed it and didn't help.

497
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, go for it. Just give me a piece of

498
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 4: paper that says good luck, please go in the war.

499
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 3: We believe in you, Yes, yeah, right, we believe in you.

500
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: So we know that, we know that he was a

501
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: voice of relative authority right in his stomping grounds. So

502
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: he was able to gather some resources of his own

503
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: or some people.

504
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, So he's basically an unpaid intern task with

505
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 4: conquering a continent. And he goes out to his buddies

506
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 4: at his neighborhood and he's like, hey, like neighborhood, watch guys,

507
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 4: Like I'm gonna raise with militia. I need some people.

508
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 4: He gets one hundred and fifty guys. Remember the Hair

509
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 4: Buyers is in a fort with British trained, British soldiers

510
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 4: and cannons and five hundred guys. Clark's like, all right,

511
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 4: I got these hundred fifty guys. So in June seventeen

512
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 4: seventy eight, he just kind of walks into Illinois Country

513
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 4: a crosses the Ohio River into a big forest, and

514
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 4: these guys go on. They're they're bringing clothes from home

515
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 4: and rifles that they used to like hunt animals and stuff. Like,

516
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: they're leaving their families and stuff behind. They're just these

517
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 4: are just dudes that live in the woods, right. They

518
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 4: have a bowie knife and and a rifle and whatever

519
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 4: ammo then get their hands on and.

520
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: A drone song in their heart potentially.

521
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 4: So they head out. They hunt for their dinner, They

522
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 4: sleep under the stars, they survive the elements, and they

523
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: go out towards Their first target is a town called

524
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 4: Caskia in Illinois Country.

525
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and Kaskaskia it was, in a sense the crown

526
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 5: jewel of Illinois Country. It was a thriving French town.

527
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 5: It was heavily fortified. And if Clark and his one

528
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty guys had been walking into a standard

529
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 5: British fort, they would have been toast. But instead they

530
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 5: find themselves in this weird liminal space. Technically it's British

531
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 5: controlled territory, but in practice it's a French speaking Catholic enclave.

532
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 6: Right.

533
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 4: So, after the French and Indian War, right, the Seven

534
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 4: Years War ends, the Treaty of Paris in seventeen sixty three.

535
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 4: All of this stuff we think like Louisiana purchase and stuff,

536
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 4: but everything west of the Appalachians was French and then

537
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 4: the British, and there the French and Indian War and

538
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,239
Speaker 4: the Seven Years War, and part of that treaty the

539
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 4: French have to seed all those territories between the Appalachians

540
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 4: and the Mississippi River to England. So you have these

541
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 4: French settlers who were some of them born in France

542
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 4: and have been French, you know, for generations. They live

543
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 4: in this little area and suddenly the French flags come

544
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 4: down and the British flags go up. The British don't

545
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 4: have the troops, and man, they're not flooding this area

546
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 4: with people. They just run up a new flag and

547
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 4: put a couple hundred soldiers in town to take over

548
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: the forts. So they're kind of trying to leverage these

549
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 4: trade networks. They're trying to These guys have to pay

550
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 4: their taxes to the British now, but at the end

551
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 4: of the day, these are Frenchmen and they don't like

552
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 4: the British. You have one hundreds of frenchmen here who

553
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 4: were at war with the British like fifteen years ago,

554
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 4: like in their lifetimes, they fought the British in a war.

555
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and culturally it's a very different place. So we're

556
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 5: not talking about like Philadelphia here, We're not talking about London.

557
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 5: We've got French culture, Jesuit missions for trading posts, independent

558
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 5: mind and frontiersmen, a lot of mutually beneficial trade relationships,

559
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 5: even some inner marriages. The French have been building up

560
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 5: their network with the Native American nations over maybe a century.

561
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: Is this in the era of like kind of getting

562
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: the fur trade going?

563
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 6: And yes.

564
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 4: So that's the main difference here is that when when

565
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 4: the British and later the Americans are coming through, they

566
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 4: are trying to take this land and settle it right.

567
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 4: They want to settle this land for people and develop it.

568
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 4: And the tribes that are living here, the Shawnee, the Miami,

569
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 4: the Piacashaw, they don't they don't want people to move

570
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 4: in there and build houses. But the French have been

571
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 4: in there and they don't really care as much about that.

572
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 4: They're interested in the fur trade, right. They're making a

573
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 4: lot of money off this fur trade. They're working together

574
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 4: with the.

575
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 6: Tribes agreeable situation, right, there's a mutual agree that makes sense.

576
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 4: Everybody is getting, everybody's benefiting from this. It's a healthy trade.

577
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 4: The French people, the French fur traders are living with

578
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 4: these tribes, right, They're not setting up their own little communities.

579
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 4: They're they're integrating in a way that we haven't seen.

580
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,239
Speaker 4: And so there is a lot of opportunity here for

581
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 4: George Rogers Clark to find some force multipliers for his

582
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty guys, because he's now in this

583
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 4: area that the tribes that live here don't love the

584
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 4: idea of They don't really love the idea of the

585
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 4: Americans coming in here and doing this either, But they

586
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 4: also don't love the idea of the British doing what

587
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 4: they've been doing, which is more exploitative and less collaborative.

588
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like, Hey, don't worry, I'm America. We're

589
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: like diet British. So were fewer calories, I guess. But

590
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: as you all point out then and Pat, he also

591
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: had the advantage, our buddy George. He had the advantage

592
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: of not going in with some crazy hardline ideology for

593
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: the people, like he was not a missionary. He was

594
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: not religiously extremist, at least in the way he talked

595
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: about stuff. He instead just sort of have told people

596
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: do what you're doing, you know, go about your day

597
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: to day life. Also, just me, George being honest here,

598
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: I kind of think the British are a bunch of pills.

599
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: Do you want to help me fight them?

600
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 4: Right? Right exactly? And the French, to be fair, the

601
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 4: French don't love the Americans either because they're worried. The

602
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 4: French are Catholic and the Americans are Protestant and they're

603
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 4: worried about this when we come in there, right, so,

604
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 4: you know, but so were the British. And that's been

605
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 4: a war that's been going off for we know, we

606
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 4: don't like the British, you guys, let's wait and see.

607
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 4: And so when Clark shows up, he's like, Hey, we're

608
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 4: doing this new thing. We're going to be our own country.

609
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 4: We're trying to figure out our own stuff. He shows

610
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 4: up with these one hundred and fifty guys. There by

611
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 4: the time they get here, like Kaskaski is not close

612
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 4: to Kentucky. They've been hiking, their boots are falling apart.

613
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 4: They look like they look like wild men. They look

614
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 4: like mountain men when they show up, huge beards and stuff.

615
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 4: And Koski has a British fort and he shows up

616
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 4: and he kind of like lines up outside the fort.

617
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 4: He's like, I think, if I can win this town

618
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 4: over and this region over, we can force these guys

619
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 4: out of the fort without having to actually fight them,

620
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 4: because I don't have My men are too tired, and

621
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 4: I don't have the guns or the experience or the

622
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 4: training or any of the things I need to storm

623
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 4: this fort. But if I could take this town, that

624
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 4: would be like a big step.

625
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 5: And it's a big risk too, because if even one

626
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 5: of the Kaskaskian inhabitants decides to alert the British at

627
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 5: the fort, whoops, there goes.

628
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 4: The plan, right right, there's one hundred and fifty just like

629
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: mostly unarmed guys out here trying to like overthrow the government.

630
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 4: That's a problem. So Clark needs help, and that is

631
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 4: where we meet a guy named I guess pat. I'm

632
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 4: just going to hand it off to you without setting

633
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 4: you up with the guy's name.

634
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 5: Peerre Pierre Gibol.

635
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 4: Fabulous, yes, Fatherbo.

636
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 6: Not quite as devaults as I like to call him

637
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 6: as Pierre Dijon, but still equally flourishy and French.

638
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 5: You'd buy a bottle of Merlau from him.

639
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 1: The so is pair is actual, like his Christian first

640
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: name or is it his title?

641
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 5: It's his title. It's like father or padre. Yeah.

642
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's a Jesuit priest.

643
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's a Jesuit priest. And as is sometimes the

644
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 5: case in these Smallish frontier towns, he's got a lot

645
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 5: of roles. He's also in effect the mayor, the judge,

646
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,479
Speaker 5: the information broker of Illinois country. He's like the guy

647
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 5: everyone goes to and kind of expects he's the grown

648
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 5: up in the room. So he Yeah, he serves the

649
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 5: parishes in both Kaskaskia and val Sen. He knows all

650
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 5: the families, he knows their secrets. And also he hates

651
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 5: the British. He does not like the British occupation. He

652
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 5: sees the British as an occupying force that doesn't really

653
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 5: understand the French French Catholic culture of the region. And

654
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 5: in addition, Pelgibol he's the British paying for scalps and

655
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 5: he's absolutely appalled by that. So he wants stability. He

656
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 5: also maybe wants that whole buying scalp thing to end,

657
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 5: and he sees that the Americans say, okay, they're Protestant,

658
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 5: but they're Protestants who are more likely to actually respect

659
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 5: the way of life that we have here than the

660
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 5: British are.

661
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, there guy, Protestants, but they're not imperious about

662
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: their beliefs, right, They're not like, well that's that's.

663
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 4: That's kind of you can see on this right. And

664
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 4: so that's kind of why the French are kind of

665
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 4: hanging out here. They're British citizens at this point. They

666
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 4: don't really think of themselves as such. They think of

667
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 4: themselves as French. They think of theselves as French Catholics.

668
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 4: And so the way they know what they're going to

669
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 4: get with the British. And when Clark shows up, he

670
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 4: does a very wise thing and he's like, who's the

671
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 4: guy I need to talk to? Okay, Gjubau, Okay, let's

672
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 4: get him. And so they have dinner together and he's like, look, man,

673
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 4: like I'm not going to change. Nothing's going to change here, Like,

674
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 4: I'm here to get this guy out of here. I'm

675
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 4: here to get the British out and if you that

676
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 4: sounds good to you, Let's let's work together. And Clark

677
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 4: is persuasive enough in this meeting that Gebaut is like

678
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 4: all the way all in, and Jebau starts going around

679
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 4: Kaskaskia and he's like, hey, guys, like, let's help these

680
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 4: let's help these guys out. Let's make sure that they're

681
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 4: not going to raise arms against them. They're not gonna

682
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 4: like join the army or anything, but they are not

683
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 4: They're going to like, there's a lot of things that

684
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 4: the civilian population of this town can do that will

685
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 4: destabilize British rule here. And they start doing that.

686
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, and this is not just in Kaskaskia. Father people

687
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 5: rides all the way to Valcen, which was one hundred

688
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 5: miles away, hundreds of miles away in Indiana, and he

689
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 5: does the same thing with his parish, his parishioners there.

690
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 5: He basically neutralizes the entire territory through winning over hearts

691
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 5: and minds. It's this huge diplomatic whisper campaign. Yeah.

692
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then the and then Clark goes one step

693
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 4: further than that. He go he and Gibou together they're like, well,

694
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 4: we need to get the support of the local tribes

695
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 4: as well, and so he goes and meets with the

696
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 4: chief of the Piankesha tribe, a guy whose name is

697
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 4: Tobacco's Son, which is a complicated it's a mixed things

698
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 4: complicated when you're reading about it. But his name is

699
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 4: Tobacco's son, and he's called the Grand Door to the Wabash,

700
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 4: which means he's like, hits the Wabash is the river

701
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 4: system there, and he's kind of the guy who's he's

702
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 4: the diplomatic person you need to talk to for the

703
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: tribes in this region.

704
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 1: He's their version of the French priest.

705
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 4: Right, yes, so he's their chief I think so he Yeah, exactly,

706
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 4: he's an important person to get to know. Clark hits

707
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 4: hidden down and has dinner with him and they're talking about, uh,

708
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 4: you know, what they're going to do and what the

709
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 4: American civilization is going to look like when it shows up.

710
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 4: And he's able to convert Tobacco's son to his cause

711
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 4: as well. So this ends up being a big wind

712
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 4: for him to where at some point it becomes clear

713
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 4: to the British in Kaskaskia that like, they don't have

714
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 4: a lot of guys at the fort. Here it becomes

715
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 4: clear that like the town is against them, and the

716
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 4: Piakasha and the French are bringing food and guns and

717
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 4: AMMO and supplies and information to Clark and his guys,

718
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 4: and so the ford in Kaskaskia, those guys leave, They

719
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 4: leave the town to Clark without him having a fire shot.

720
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 4: They leave in the night, and they go and they

721
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 4: go to Vincennes, which is the next biggest towns. You've

722
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 4: got Casciar, You've got Vincenza, that you've got Detroit. Those

723
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 4: are the three main settlements for our story here. Clark

724
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 4: ends up in Kaskaskia in February seventeen seventy nine. Winter

725
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 4: is here. It's a brutal Midwestern winter. He's got one

726
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 4: hundred and seventy two guys. He's actually been able to

727
00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 4: recruit a few from the locals, and the British troops

728
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 4: at Kaskaskia have gone to Vincennes. Now, while Clark is

729
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 4: hold up here in Kaskaskia waiting out the winter, he

730
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 4: gets news that Hairbier Hamilton is not just sitting around,

731
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 4: He's on the move. So Hamilton has taken five hundred

732
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 4: guys from Detroit and marched them down to Vincenes as well.

733
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 4: So now we got trouble. They're coming for me. Like,

734
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 4: my thing works. I've got this town, but I actually

735
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 4: do have to fight this guy, and he's got five

736
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 4: times the number of people I do, and cannons and

737
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 4: weapons and food and all the things that I don't have. Okay,

738
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 4: So he's looking at his guys and he's like, what

739
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 4: are we gonna do here? It's the dead of winner.

740
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 4: He's like, we got to go. I think we got

741
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 4: to go now. We've got to go to Vincennes now,

742
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 4: because the longer they sit there, the more they're going

743
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 4: to fortify it. So we've got to go. He's got

744
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 4: one hundred and seventy two just regular dudes. These are

745
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 4: not trained soldiers, and he's like, we have to march

746
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty miles to Vincenne's in the dead

747
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 4: of winter to ambush these guys when they're not expecting it.

748
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: Just imagine the pitch. Hey, guys, you know how we

749
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: all like hiking right.

750
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 4: Sitting by a nice campfire indoors. We got to go

751
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 4: out there. The door opens, the whipping wind.

752
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: But it's a great point too as well, given the

753
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: brutality of the season, and given the the importance of

754
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: not letting these British forces really entrench themselves, right, because

755
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where if you don't solve

756
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 1: the problem as soon as you can, the problem will

757
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: only exacerbate over time.

758
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 4: Right, yes, yes, and so we've got to do it.

759
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 4: But if you've ever been to Chicago in February.

760
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 6: Are thrilled there when the summer hits, it's like it's

761
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 6: a new least life. Yeah, brutal.

762
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 5: So this hike, when we say hike, we usually picture,

763
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 5: you know, maybe you're having fun, maybe you're not, but

764
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 5: we usually picture a hiking on dry land. So this, however,

765
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 5: this territory is known as the drowned Lands, and the

766
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 5: Illinois river systems have flooded over, so the entire march

767
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 5: they have to deal with freezing shoulder deep ice water.

768
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 6: The drowned Lands should be a region on the Elden

769
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 6: Ring map, just putting that out there, right.

770
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 4: Definitely, it's like that, right, it's survival horror. Seventeen days,

771
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 4: these guys hike one hundred and eighty miles, which is like,

772
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 4: I don't know, Seattle to Portland. It's like, yeah, this

773
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 4: is a this is a long this is a long hike.

774
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 6: That's so great pace.

775
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, seventeen days. Yeah, through the through the water, right

776
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 4: through the mud and the water and the snow. At

777
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 4: one point, the water gets so deep. They have this

778
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 4: drummer boy with them, this kid, and he has to

779
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 4: ride on his snare drum like a life raft because

780
00:42:58,520 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 4: he can't it's what water is too deeper, so over

781
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 4: his head before before.

782
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: We chuckle at this because you just it's such a

783
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 1: vivid image.

784
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: It's adorable. Can you tell us he survived?

785
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 4: I cannot confirm that, but he probably did otherwise, Yeah, hardly.

786
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 4: Like spoiler alert, very few members of most of Clark's

787
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 4: group is going to make it back. There's not a

788
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 4: he's a so I will say yes. I will say

789
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 4: yes with a certain degree of confidence.

790
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,879
Speaker 6: I will give him the benefit of the doubt. There

791
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 6: definitely wasn't room for Jack on the snare drum. Okay,

792
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 6: as the large floating door in the Titanic universe. Just

793
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 6: putting it out there.

794
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, there, this is a miserable thing. This is Yes,

795
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 4: they're getting sick. It's so cold. Guys are hallucinating at night.

796
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 4: They have to sleep in trees because the mud freezes

797
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 4: and if you sleep on the ground, even with like

798
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 4: like you know, pads and stuff like, the mud will

799
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 4: freeze your stuff to the ground.

800
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 5: How do you sleep in a tree? I mean, wild

801
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 5: turkeys sleep in trees, But do you have to build

802
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 5: a little.

803
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 6: Well, turkeys are also udents and abominations, just putting that

804
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 6: out there.

805
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, Pat, no offense. I know, I know both you

806
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 1: and Ben are in the Boston area, but we're fairly

807
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: anti turkey on this show.

808
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: They'll come at you, man, come at you.

809
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: They'll go at you. They're mad at They're mad at us.

810
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 5: Oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I am neither pro nor

811
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,439
Speaker 5: anti wild turkey. I just accept them as a force

812
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 5: of nature.

813
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 3: Don't they well said, don't they roam Harvard campus? They

814
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 3: really do.

815
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 6: I saw them in the in the wild, literally and

816
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 6: I was like, is this acceptable?

817
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 1: Who?

818
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 3: Who green with these turkeys?

819
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 5: The turkeys act like they're on the place, because actually

820
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 5: they kind of do.

821
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: They're a gang.

822
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: I remember, I've spent a lot of time in Boston,

823
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 1: and no offense you all, but it can be an opinionated,

824
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: somewhat divisive place. And the one thing that I see

825
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: all Bostonians agree on is that wild turkeys are kind

826
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: of a gang.

827
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, do not mess with wild tur turkeys.

828
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: So despite the fact that these guys are not actively

829
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: actively in life or death battles with wild turkeys, they

830
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: are running into a lot of dangerous wildlife. The environment

831
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: is inhospitable. Sleeping in trees if you've ever done it before, folks,

832
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: just a regular tree, not a fancy tree house, not

833
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 1: a chiropractor. But your back's gonna hurt. It kind of sucks. Yep.

834
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 4: You gotta tie yourself in so you don't fall out

835
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 4: when you're sleeping, or you got to build a little

836
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 4: stand there. And yeah, I mean seventeen days these guys

837
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 4: do this. They have them by the time they arrive

838
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 4: and Clark it bears mentioning that this is not Clark

839
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 4: is not wearing an officer's uniform here and carrying a

840
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 4: sword and sleeping in a tent like he's walking at

841
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 4: the front of the line, right, He's just walking with

842
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 4: these guys. He's twenty five. Guys are all about his age.

843
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 4: They're they're not trained soldiers. They don't really know what

844
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 4: they're doing. They got no food, their clothes are falling apart.

845
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 4: They don't have the cold way their gear. They need

846
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 4: for this to like not be absolutely miserable. By the

847
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 4: time they get there, they lose two guys on the hike,

848
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 4: and by the time they get there, they're basically like skeletal.

849
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 4: They have eaten the last of their food. They're out

850
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 4: of food entirely. They they're so tired they can barely

851
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 4: hold their rifles. And then they get there and they

852
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 4: get to Vincense, which nobody has ever been to before.

853
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 4: And they take one look at it and it's like

854
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 4: an uphill approach into a wooden fort with cannons and

855
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 4: like garden positions and like portholes to like stick your

856
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 4: gun out. There's five hundred Red coats sitting there by

857
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 4: their campfires inside, eating food with their with their and yeah,

858
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 4: and they have AMMO for their rifles and for their cannons. Okay,

859
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 4: what do we do here?

860
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: Tire ourselves to a tree and hope there aren't any

861
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: turkeys around.

862
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,320
Speaker 5: I don't know, Oh that's always a good move, but yeah, yeah,

863
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 5: so so Clark Clark sends the letter.

864
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 4: He sends a messenger into the town of Vincennes, and Vincenzees,

865
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 4: you know, it's a frontier town, but it's it's French, right,

866
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 4: And he sends the town, he sends me messengers into

867
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 4: the town and he says, I'm going to take the

868
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 4: town tomorrow. If you're with us, stay in the town,

869
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 4: don't leave your houses. If you're with the British, go

870
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 4: to the fort now, so that we know who's on

871
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 4: our side and who's not.

872
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 5: And this could be a huge gamble because again, you

873
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 5: just need one person to tip off the British. But

874
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 5: he knows that the French settlers in Valsennese trust the

875
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 5: word of Father Gibo. They don't run to the fort.

876
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 5: They stay inside. And not only do they stay inside,

877
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 5: they also sneak food and ammo and supplies to Clark

878
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 5: and his men.

879
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 4: Yes, so the people of the town so word, you know,

880
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 4: they don't they don't rat on him. They bring stuff

881
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 4: out to him. And then eventually Hamilton does find out.

882
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 4: Hamilton's there, he's in Vincennes. He's there, and he gets

883
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 4: word that's like, okay, there's something weird going on here.

884
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 4: These guys are moving around and then he starts asking

885
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 4: people and they're like, yeah, what somebody says it right,

886
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 4: And he's like oh, shoot, there's like an American army

887
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 4: out there, and like they're gonna take the town. He

888
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 4: say they're going to take the fort tomorrow. Is that right? Then,

889
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 4: Like he starts hearing the drums, that drummer boy, he

890
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,479
Speaker 4: starts hearing the drums. He starts seeing guys, he starts

891
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 4: seeing flags, and there's just so they start marching around.

892
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 4: So we're in the forest, right, there's a clearing between

893
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 4: the forest wall and the and the fort where the

894
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 4: you know, like at area so you could shoot people

895
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 4: when they're trying to attack the fort. But he starts

896
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 4: walking around that tree line in a circle, over and

897
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 4: over and over again with his dudes waving little banners,

898
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 4: changing the little banners around. He's got snipers up in

899
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 4: the trees, like he's got these guys are marksmen right there, hunters.

900
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 4: He's got guys up in the trees shooting rounds into

901
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 4: the He's trying to tell him to shoot it through

902
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 4: the portholes of the of the of the fort, not

903
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,439
Speaker 4: necessarily to like kill a guy standing on the other side,

904
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 4: but just to like freak them out that like we

905
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 4: can shoot through the whole of we could shoot through

906
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 4: this target here and uh, don't stick your head out

907
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 4: the window, because you know we might be able, we

908
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 4: might shoot you.

909
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: So this is like a Pioyeah.

910
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 4: Absolutely, he's got one hundred and seventy two guys with frostbite,

911
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 4: and and he's shooting basically every bullet he has as

912
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 4: like a warning shot to scare these guys. He's just

913
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 4: just ping, ping around off the cannon so that they

914
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 4: know we could hit the cannon if we wanted to.

915
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 4: They can't see where the Americans are shooting from. They

916
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 4: can't see how many of them there are. They're hearing

917
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 4: word that like the town is against them. They're hearing

918
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 4: word that there was this big force in uh In

919
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 4: Kaskaskia that was on the move. Here. They're hearing word

920
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 4: that the Native American tribes in the area have joined up.

921
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 4: They're hearing word that the frendship joined up. Suddenly, that

922
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 4: five hundred guys in the wooden fort with eleven foot

923
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 4: walls and cannons doesn't seem quite so stable. This is

924
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 4: like you said, it's a siop. He's he's tricking, tricking

925
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 4: these guys. Hamilton panics and he's like, I've got to

926
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 4: meet with I've got to meet their commander. This is

927
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 4: like the old days, right, we just did this. This

928
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 4: is like a very American revolution thing where he's like,

929
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 4: I would like to meet were I shall meet your

930
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 4: commanding on.

931
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 6: In a little FaceTime. Yeah.

932
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: I know we've had our differences, but let's grab dinner.

933
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, they do. They go to a church in town

934
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 4: and they meet.

935
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 6: Oh well, that's fun because the church being sort of

936
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 6: a neutral location where you're not supposed to do acts

937
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 6: of violence, right.

938
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 4: Right, right, And so he meets Clark and Hamilton I

939
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 4: imagine with the powdered wig and the red coat and everything.

940
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 4: Clark is just a mess, right. This guy's like he's

941
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 4: wearing a buckskin shirt that's like covered in mud from

942
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,959
Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty mile hike, and he just looks

943
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 4: like a wild man. He looks like, I don't know,

944
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 4: something out of a something of a movie from the seventies,

945
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 4: you know. And Hamilton's like, all right, I'm lieutenant governor

946
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 4: of Detroit. We can talk. Let's talk like gentlemen. He's

947
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 4: expecting a very revolutionary war parlay here. And Clark is like, look, man,

948
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,280
Speaker 4: if you don't surrender right now, I'm going to storm

949
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 4: the place, and once I storm the place, I won't

950
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 4: be My men are just wild men. They're all insane

951
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 4: maniacs with bowie knives. I can't promise, I can't promise

952
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 4: I can control them once we get into the walls.

953
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: Oh that's classic diplomacy too, because people in those parlays,

954
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: people always or typically will assume that kind of that

955
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: kind of moral stance where they'll go, look, I'm the

956
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: guy you can talk to. Okay, you and me, man,

957
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,479
Speaker 1: we're just hanging at the church. We can reason this through.

958
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: But my boys, those folks, man, you thought you bought hair.

959
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's a good cop, bad cop. Right. He's

960
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 4: got three, like, he's got his three craziest look of

961
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 4: dudes standing around him just being like like frothing at

962
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 4: the mouth. And it's like, look, I mean, I don't

963
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 4: know about Big Jim here. He doesn't really do what

964
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 4: I tell him to.

965
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: You, No, does it work?

966
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 4: It works? Yeah, Hamilton's threnders. Hamilton signs the surrender that night,

967
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 4: surrenders the fort, and as the last moment of like,

968
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 4: you know, he doesn't raise there's a there's a very

969
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 4: which I'm sure he thought was like a big disc

970
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 4: but like he doesn't the morning he's supposed to hand

971
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 4: the ford over, he doesn't raise the flag that morning

972
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 4: because he doesn't want to run it down so that

973
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 4: they can run up the American flag. You would normally

974
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 4: run a flag up the at morning roll call or whatever,

975
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 4: but he doesn't run it up because he doesn't want

976
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 4: the disgrace of running it down. And so that was

977
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 4: kind of his I don't know, I feel like that

978
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 4: probably carried a lot more weight in seventeen seventy eight

979
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 4: than it does now. It just kind of seems repeated. Yeah, yeah,

980
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 4: but it's mentioned. It's mentioned in multiple places when you

981
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 4: read about this, so I feel like Bear's mentioning here.

982
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 4: But anyway, he's the renders and then he's got to

983
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 4: hand his guys over, He hands his weapon's over and

984
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 4: pat it's a he's a.

985
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 5: It's a wo wof moment, a kick in the teeth moment.

986
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 5: Hamilton looks at the massive army that beat him, and now.

987
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 4: He's got a mars. Five hundred guys out of that court. Yeah,

988
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 4: five hundred unarmed men marching out through one hundred and

989
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 4: fifty guys that look like they haven't slept in a month.

990
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 4: Or carrying like weapons. That would be a joke, right.

991
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: That's crazy because you know there was at least of

992
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: the one hundred and fifty American dudes, there was at

993
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: least one who didn't have any kind of firearm, just

994
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: had a big stick.

995
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 4: It was like haha, right, exactly. Yeah, it's like surrendering

996
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 4: guantanamotive guys with like bolt action rifles. Right, it's just

997
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 4: like you're like, what is what the what the hell?

998
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 4: And so it's you know, the hair buyer is taken prisoner,

999
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 4: he's put in a cell and and he hates it.

1000
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 4: He writes, he writes so much. You were talking about

1001
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 4: the Joys letters. He writes so much like poetic, like

1002
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 4: complaining about how he has to go into the guess

1003
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 4: to sit there with the quote felons and malefactors. They

1004
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 4: don't put him in a special cell for like the gentleman.

1005
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 4: Put him in just a regular cell. There's a there's

1006
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 4: a toilet bucket in there. He calls it a kind

1007
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 4: of throne that is truly methitic, which means foul smelling.

1008
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 3: Great words. I'm writing all of these down.

1009
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: Have you no separate prison for an officer?

1010
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 6: Right?

1011
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 4: I wish I could do the accident. It would be

1012
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:18,839
Speaker 4: so funny if I just.

1013
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: Like what he thought he was going to be pooping

1014
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: in first class.

1015
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 4: No he is not. He is he is pooping in

1016
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 4: a wilderness prison.

1017
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 2: C that's terrible.

1018
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 4: And yeah, so basically with al Fryon shot, you know,

1019
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 4: the British lose some guys to those snipers, but mostly

1020
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 4: that was that was a sigh op. But they do

1021
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 4: take out a couple of his guys. So Hamilton loses

1022
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 4: a few guys to gunfire and Clark loses a couple

1023
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 4: of guys to the extreme temperatures. But at the end

1024
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 4: of the day, Clark writes home to Patrick Henry, who

1025
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 4: kind of gave him a pat on the back and

1026
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 4: sent him off. He says, great things have been affected

1027
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 4: by a few men well conducted.

1028
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 3: Indeed, indeed well said.

1029
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: Hey, I imagine Clark got uh got a promotion from

1030
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:11,919
Speaker 1: this right?

1031
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 2: Maybe?

1032
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,760
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean he gets promoted, he gets militarily promoted.

1033
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 4: In the end, well, yeah, I mean to put it

1034
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 4: in perspective, this guy, with one hundred and fifty men

1035
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 4: and no funding from the government, using entirely diplomacy and

1036
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 4: psychological warfare. He captures when the British, because the British

1037
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 4: have now surrendered and they surrendered torqu Detroit, because this

1038
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 4: is the extent of their forces. Hamilton is has the

1039
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 4: extent of their forces in the region. So when the

1040
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 4: war ends, Britain has to sign all this stuff over

1041
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 4: because possessions nine tenths of the law and the colonials

1042
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 4: have it. The region that George Rogers Clark has just

1043
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 4: captured through this operation will become the states of Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin,

1044
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 4: and Indiana.

1045
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 5: Can you imagine how many pages in your atlas that

1046
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 5: would take up. That's that is a not small portion

1047
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 5: of land. And to do all this, Clark was okay,

1048
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 5: he got a pat on the back from Patrick Henry,

1049
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 5: but he did not get any support from the Virginia

1050
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 5: government for expenses. So Clark was paying out a pocket

1051
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 5: to feed his men and get supplies and he went

1052
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 5: into a lot of debt for this, and his creditors

1053
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 5: they just kept going after him and hounding him. So yeah, yeah,

1054
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 5: So in exchange for you know, saving the securing the

1055
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 5: future of the Midwest, he just gets a stack of

1056
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 5: bills and honestly, he can't he really can't dig himself

1057
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 5: out of it. And yeah, poor guy dies in poverty.

1058
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm an alcoholic. He dies in poverty. Just really

1059
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 4: tragic end of this guy. He's Yeah, the later years

1060
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 4: are like pretty rough for him. And she's not penniless. Yeah, yeah,

1061
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 4: here's the kicker. Hamilton gets out of prison after the war,

1062
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 4: He gets paroled, he gets promoted. He becomes the governor

1063
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 4: of Bermuda and Dominica.

1064
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 2: So how do you get a promotion after that?

1065
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 4: I don't know. But he lives out the rest of

1066
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 4: his days sitting on a beach in the Dominican sipping

1067
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 4: rum cocktails and just complaining about.

1068
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: What went down earlier.

1069
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: I just said, hey, you guys have to understand, the

1070
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: forest was pretty dense. We thought there were a lot

1071
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: more of them than there were.

1072
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know, I don't know the you know.

1073
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 4: Desjawn ends up getting arrested and running away, so at

1074
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 4: least he gets what's coming to him. He gets indicted

1075
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 4: and spends most of his life on the run. Clark

1076
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 4: is interesting because yeah he does. He struggles later in life.

1077
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 4: But one interesting way to kind of end this story

1078
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 4: is when Napoleon sells the eighteen O one when Napoleon

1079
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 4: does Louis Louisiana purchase and Thomas Jefferson sends the Lewis

1080
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 4: and Clark Expedition out to explore the new territories that

1081
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:15,919
Speaker 4: have been discovered. That Clark is George Rogers Clark's little brother,

1082
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 4: so William Clark is the younger brother of George Rogers Clark.

1083
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 4: So it's kind of like a relay race where where

1084
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 4: George Rogers Clark expands west and then and then his

1085
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,439
Speaker 4: brother William picks it up and goes on the Lewis

1086
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 4: and Clark expedition all the way to the Pacific Ocean.

1087
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 4: So I think that's kind of a fun way to

1088
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 4: wrap that or to tie that off.

1089
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 5: George walked so William could run, or George.

1090
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: Trusge William could trug.

1091
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, there we go.

1092
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: And we had a we hadd an episode, uh not

1093
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 1: too long ago, Noel, Max and I about how scientists

1094
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: were able to track the passage of the Lewis and

1095
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: Clark expedition, uh.

1096
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 2: Through there through through their poop.

1097
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 1: Sorry to make this so poop centric, guys, but but

1098
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: that's part of it. I think we can all unanimously

1099
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: agree the award for badass does rightly go to George

1100
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: Rogers Clark, and I'm so mad to hear that. Ol

1101
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: Hamilton just got to spend time on the beach.

1102
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 4: Is the governor of Bermuda.

1103
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, during a very difficult time for Bermuda. By the way,

1104
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: I think it was probably still kind of a chump

1105
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: during his governorship.

1106
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 4: It's possible, that's possible, he said. He just becomes a

1107
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 4: colonial administrator, which doesn't selling a terrible.

1108
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 3: Life, right, what they call a cushy government job.

1109
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: Yes, just so, and we are we are going to

1110
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: wrap this exploration here. Thank you so much, Ben, Thank

1111
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: you so much Pat for joining us. I don't know.

1112
00:59:57,960 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say neither of us knew

1113
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: George Rogers Clark.

1114
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 6: Absolutely not. I mean for the longest time, I was like,

1115
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 6: where's the where's the Lewis and Clark connection? These seem related,

1116
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 6: these seem adjacent, And we got there.

1117
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 4: Finally we got there. Yeah. Yeah, it's a huge expansion

1118
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 4: of the American colonies. Big it became became five states,

1119
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:19,919
Speaker 4: and we couldn't have done it without this one guy

1120
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 4: and the aid of the French people who lived in

1121
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 4: the region and the Piankashaw Nations and the other nations

1122
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 4: that helped out in the in the process. So this

1123
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 4: is kind of the French connection. Next time we're going

1124
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 4: to talk about a little bit more of a direct

1125
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 4: action that the French took, which is also badass, but

1126
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 4: in a very different way.

1127
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: And congratulations by the way to all of us, including

1128
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: you Max for not making references to the musical Hamilton.

1129
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: I didn't know if we would get through it, but guys,

1130
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: we did it. We did it as a crew, We

1131
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: did it as a team. Where can people go to

1132
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: learn more about.

1133
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 4: You all's work, Well, we are at Badass of the

1134
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 4: Week basically everywhere anywhere you find podcasts, you can search

1135
01:00:59,560 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 4: for bad and you'll see my face a kidding.

1136
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: You could also check out the Wikipedia disambiguation page for

1137
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: Ben Thompson, which is one of my favorite parts of

1138
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: your bio. Pat. We can't wait to uh, we can't

1139
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: wait to hear what you think of our Notorious James

1140
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: Joyce episode. Uh.

1141
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're gonna live stream, are listening to it on

1142
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 4: our twitch. We're gonna create a twitch.

1143
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 3: We can record it like a commentary track. Yeah, like

1144
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 3: a rip rip It's worthy of that, it's pretty crunch.

1145
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: Big big thanks to our super producer mister Max Williams.

1146
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: Will allid the credits a little bit for now, but uh, folks,

1147
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: please do tune in very soon when we get to

1148
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: the next Badass of the Week.

1149
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 2: We've got double Badasses.

1150
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 6: Of the Week week.

1151
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 3: That's the one.

1152
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 6: You're ridiculous history. Thanks you all so much for joining

1153
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 6: us again and we'll see you next time, folks. For

1154
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 6: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1155
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 6: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.