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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM. Triumph and

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Speaker 1: Iowa college student just twenty years old, goes missing, seemingly

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Speaker 1: disappearing into thin air, reports claiming she was spotted jogging

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Speaker 1: just before she was missing. Now we learned she was

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Speaker 1: up late on her computer doing homework. Where is Molly Tibbits?

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Speaker 1: In the last hours, we learned of a possible sighting

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Speaker 1: of Molly nearly two and fifty miles away from where

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Speaker 1: she goes missing in her boyfriend's apartment. He's out of

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Speaker 1: town on a construction job two fifty miles away near

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Speaker 1: a truck stop, reportedly looking extremely disoriented. Where is Molly?

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Listen to what Molly father Rob has

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Speaker 1: to say. Robin, was the last time you talked to Molly?

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Speaker 1: I talked to Molly Sunday for about three hours. We

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Speaker 1: talked regularly on the phone. I live in California, UM.

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Speaker 1: She was out earlier this year from my wedding, and

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Speaker 1: so we just talked about She's going to the Dominican

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Speaker 1: Republic for a wedding her boyfriend's brother. She's getting back

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Speaker 1: to school books, she's reading just the usual stuff. She

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Speaker 1: was wearing a fitbit when she was running. Authorities have

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Speaker 1: at least told us that much. What can you tell

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Speaker 1: us tonight about how that's helping them track down her

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Speaker 1: whereabouts and where she might have been last I don't know.

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Speaker 1: The authorities, as you said, our circumspect with all of

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Speaker 1: the information, and so they're not sharing that sort of

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Speaker 1: information with us as well, a lot of questions about

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Speaker 1: what state the house. She was staying in her boyfriend's

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Speaker 1: house while he was off on this um construction job,

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Speaker 1: and she was their dog sitting as much as we've

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Speaker 1: been told. Something that has not been mentioned much were

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Speaker 1: the were the dogs there? Had the dogs been found?

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Speaker 1: Were they at home when the authorities arrived at the house. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the dogs are at the house. I was just there

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Speaker 1: yesterday and there in perfect condition. Interesting and so now

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Speaker 1: they're waiting for new evidence that they may have new

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Speaker 1: evidence in their possession. But are they sharing that with you, Rob, No,

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Speaker 1: they're not, and for obvious reasons. The last thing the

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Speaker 1: authorities want to do is share information that would give

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Speaker 1: an advantage to anybody who would need to use that.

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Speaker 1: Right now, the last we heard before the latest developments

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Speaker 1: was that the last she was seen or heard of

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Speaker 1: was on that run. And now the new developments today

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Speaker 1: is that the last she would have been seen was

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Speaker 1: this photo she took Snapchat to her boyfriend and it

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Speaker 1: looked like she was indoors. Would it be Molly to

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Speaker 1: be working on her computer and doing homework late into

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Speaker 1: the evening like they believed she was. Now, it wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be unusual. When she was staying with us in California, UM,

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Speaker 1: she was on the computer quite a bit. She was

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Speaker 1: taking online courses, so that wouldn't be unusual. But none

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Speaker 1: of the timeline has been confirmed by the authorities, at

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Speaker 1: least not to our knowledge, UM, and so a lot

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Speaker 1: of this is now conjecture and speculation that we just

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Speaker 1: can't confirm. You're taking a Listen to Molly's father, Rob Tibbots,

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Speaker 1: speaking to Fox News Sandra Smith straight out to Crime

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Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter Lee Eagan, Lee, I need

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Speaker 1: to know what you know about the possible siding of

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Speaker 1: Iowa College student Molly Tibbots. What do we know? Sergeant

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Speaker 1: Joke Intila with the Kearney, Missouri Police Department said that

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Speaker 1: he received numerous calls numerous calls and messages after a

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Speaker 1: Facebook poster said that they saw someone that greatly reasonable

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Speaker 1: Molly in that the person looked drug disoriented and was

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Speaker 1: with a truck driver. This was at a local truck

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Speaker 1: stop in Kearney off of Missouri Highway ninety two. That's right,

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Speaker 1: Lee Uh Kearnie, Missouri police get this report that a

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Speaker 1: woman matching tippots description spotted at a truck stop near

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Speaker 1: Interstate I thirty five and Missouri Highway. They claimed she

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Speaker 1: looked extremely disoriented, h that she resembles Tippitts and was

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Speaker 1: with a white male. The tipsters also saying the woman

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Speaker 1: did not appear to be quote in any distress. Now

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Speaker 1: I find this very interesting. Um, let me go out

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Speaker 1: to Karen Smith forensics expert authorities there and Karni conduct

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Speaker 1: as they say, a thorough search of the areas, but

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Speaker 1: with witnesses and review video footage before they send the

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Speaker 1: report to Iowa investigators. Wouldn't that take a long time? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it would, especially going over the video. If they have uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, screenshots or video of this woman who resembled Molly,

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Speaker 1: they would want to go over that. My question is

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Speaker 1: is there any close circuit TV of the parking lot.

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Speaker 1: Did they get a description of this alleged truck that

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Speaker 1: she may have come from the man that she was

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Speaker 1: allegedly with. Um, did anybody write down a license plate?

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Speaker 1: Did anybody get a description of of that vehicle? Can

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Speaker 1: they track it down on the interstate and find out

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Speaker 1: if if the woman, if it's Molly, if she's inside

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Speaker 1: of that vehicle. But yes, that would take hours and hours,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately the clock keeps ticking in this case. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are so many ways there to get For instance,

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Speaker 1: tag grabbers along the interstate. If this person was pulled

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Speaker 1: over at a truck stop. To Viscent Hill, former cop

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Speaker 1: turned private investigator, a tag grabber grabs license plate tags

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Speaker 1: alongsides of highways and interstates, really simple. If this guy

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Speaker 1: was pulling out of a truck stop. Truck stops are

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Speaker 1: highly monitored. To my understanding, Vincent Hill, yeah they are, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm not so sure this could have

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Speaker 1: been Molly here. And here's why I see that based

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Speaker 1: on my experience when I was in patrol. I know

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Speaker 1: what truck stops are known for. I know what women

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Speaker 1: that appear to be intoxicator under the influence of doing

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Speaker 1: a truck stops. You know, they called them a lot lizards, right,

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Speaker 1: So a lot of women go to truck stops to

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Speaker 1: sell themselves for sex. You know what, Vincent. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: your recollections on, as you say, a lot lizards, but

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Speaker 1: right now, I don't think any tip is worth discounting.

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Speaker 1: Before we go off on a dissertation regarding women at

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Speaker 1: truck stops, I'm asking you about surveillance video at truck

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Speaker 1: stops and tag grabbers. Yeah, the tag grabber would be

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Speaker 1: great because, like you said, it takes the picture, it

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Speaker 1: can send it to the law enforcement. They could actually

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Speaker 1: try to get a location on a vehicle, pull it

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Speaker 1: over to investigate it. But I'm just simply saying that

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Speaker 1: I don't think investigators should spend an enormous amount of

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Speaker 1: time chasing this lead because you would still have to

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Speaker 1: account for how Molly got two hundred and fifty miles

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Speaker 1: away with no trace of her cell phone, her fitbit,

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. So you still have to take

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Speaker 1: all of that into consideration. Joining us right now Teresa

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Speaker 1: Peyton special guest uh. She is the current CEO of

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Speaker 1: industry leading security consulting company fertilized solutions. Former White House

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Speaker 1: Chief Information Officer Teresa thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: the the whole issue of the fitbit. We hear about

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Speaker 1: it over and over and over, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are discounting this, apparently, including Vincent, are discounting this

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Speaker 1: unconfirmed sighting. And you know what, Teresa, they may be right,

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Speaker 1: but at this point, cops, law enforcement, FBI cannot afford

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Speaker 1: to discount anything. They really can't. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: applaud the teams that are working on this, and I

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Speaker 1: know from working missing persons cases in the past, everybody's

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Speaker 1: working around the clock, and and there is software that

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Speaker 1: you can use, so with the surveillance videos, with license

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Speaker 1: plate readers, there is software that you can use that

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Speaker 1: can sort of comb through this and try and get

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Speaker 1: you down to uh, you know, kind of reverse facial recognition.

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Speaker 1: Look up, you can type in some keyword searches and

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Speaker 1: try and speed this up. And certainly if they would

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Speaker 1: be open to volunteers, I know my team and I

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Speaker 1: have done pro bono work on missing persons cases in

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Speaker 1: the past, and I'm certain that you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: the whole country this is captured um their attention and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure people would help comb through. Uh, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it feels to them like it's tons and tons of

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Speaker 1: sand and you're sifting through it to try and find

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Speaker 1: that one gem that might help help crack the case. Guys,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to Kevin Winkler with the Iowa Department

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Speaker 1: Public Safety. Listen after one of the basic facts is

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Speaker 1: where she disappeared from. Some of the family members that

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Speaker 1: indicated to the evidence suggests she may have returned home

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Speaker 1: after the run. Do you believe she disappeared on the

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Speaker 1: run or after she returned home. Well, I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: one of those details that that I'm I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to discuss today. I'm as I said, I believe, Um,

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Speaker 1: we have a good timeline that we're working off of,

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Speaker 1: and I'm confident the investigative team is doing everything they

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Speaker 1: can to make sure that that is a solid timeline

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Speaker 1: and is generating the appropriate leads to follow up on.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it needs to response though, no angler she disappeared from,

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Speaker 1: whether psponder, run on that route book, everything, everything is important. Absolutely. Um,

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Speaker 1: the question becomes, is it something that I need to

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Speaker 1: be sharing right now? As opposed to the investigative team

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Speaker 1: following up on. So absolutely every detail that we have

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Speaker 1: related to this investigation is important. UM So I'll leave

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Speaker 1: it at that. This is what we know. We know

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Speaker 1: that authorities are saying, had Tibot's been seen in surveillance

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Speaker 1: video that they reviewed, it would have been mentioned in

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Speaker 1: this statement to reporters. That's what cops are saying. That

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Speaker 1: leads me to believe after reviewing the video, they do

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Speaker 1: not believe this is Molly Tibbitts. I don't have a

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Speaker 1: clear answer. It seems like from what I'm hearing to

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Speaker 1: Teresa Peyton, it sounds like cops are not telling us

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Speaker 1: what they believe went down. Because you just heard a

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Speaker 1: direct question to the Iowa Department of Public Safety Kevin

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Speaker 1: Winkler about was she taken while she was running, which

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Speaker 1: was your first timeline or no? Because reports now surfacing

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Speaker 1: that computer searches reveal she was working on homework on

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Speaker 1: our computer late that night when she went missing, and

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Speaker 1: that is inconsistent with an earlier jog that evening. That

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Speaker 1: tells me what I suspected all along, she was taken

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Speaker 1: or left from the home. Teresa, Yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 1: That to me when I heard she was doing homework. So,

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Speaker 1: first of all, was it online homework? Did she check

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Speaker 1: in with a teacher? Did she check in with classmates?

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Speaker 1: A lot of times these online courses and online homework

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Speaker 1: have chat rooms. Did she communicate with anybody? Is it

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Speaker 1: possible if we checked the sexual um, you know, offenders

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Speaker 1: database to see are there people registered that are within

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Speaker 1: several miles? Did they happen to notice, you know, this

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Speaker 1: time around her boyfriend and the brother aren't there at

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Speaker 1: the house. She seems to be alone. I mean, those

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Speaker 1: are maybe these are all things investigators have taken a

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Speaker 1: look at and just haven't shared with us because they're

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Speaker 1: worried they're going to tip their hand to the bad guy.

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Speaker 1: But um, it does tell me with that inconsistency that

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Speaker 1: there are possibly some clues. Whatever device she was using

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Speaker 1: to do her homework, there could be some clues. We

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Speaker 1: could look through her search history, we could look through um,

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Speaker 1: you know, her cash, we could look at files that

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Speaker 1: were created, we could look at other pictures that she sent.

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Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, I heard that she sent

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Speaker 1: a snapchat. Snapchats can be recovered and there are some

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Speaker 1: tools that can help you recover it if you don't

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Speaker 1: want to wait for the subpoena process. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things here that you know, kind of time

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Speaker 1: is of the essence when somebody goes missing, you know,

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Speaker 1: the longer they're gone, as you know Nancy Grace Um,

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Speaker 1: the harder the trail gets to follow. Well. Also Teresa

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Speaker 1: with me is Dodger. Brian Russell from Investigation Discoveries Fatal

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Speaker 1: Vows hit series, new season premiering August eleven, Vincent Hilcock

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Speaker 1: turned Ei, Karen Smith forensics expert, Ashley Willcott, juvenile judge,

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Speaker 1: lawyer and founder child crime watch dot Com, Lee Egan

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Speaker 1: Crime online dot com investigative reporter. And Teresa Peyton, CEO

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Speaker 1: of security consulting company Fertilize Solutions. Teresa, I want to

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Speaker 1: talk quickly what you just said about snapchat. The boyfriend

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Speaker 1: who is working out of Tanna Dubik about two hours

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Speaker 1: away on a construction job, says that he opened a

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Speaker 1: snapchat from her at ten pm. That does not necessarily

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Speaker 1: mean she sent it at ten pm, or does it.

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Speaker 1: It does not mean that's when she sent it. Um

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Speaker 1: if he opened it attends she could have sent it

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Speaker 1: the day before. She could have sent it any time

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Speaker 1: that day. UM. Typically what happens is once the receiver,

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Speaker 1: the intended receiver opens it and views it, it disappears

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Speaker 1: from view. But as I always tell everybody, delete doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean delete, and so there are ways to recover those

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Speaker 1: messages and it doesn't have to be through a subpoena.

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Speaker 1: If the user themselves wants to recover them, it is

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Speaker 1: considered legal for them to recover missing messages. And there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of different tools that he could use. And

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to sort of pass this along for you

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Speaker 1: to be able to post online. You know, another issue, Teresa,

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Speaker 1: is the fitbit. We now know the FBI have moved

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Speaker 1: in and they've taken over the investigation. What about the fitbit?

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Speaker 1: What can we learn from that? If anything, If she

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Speaker 1: has the fitbit on her and it is charged, the

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Speaker 1: fitbit will actually depending on what model of fipit it is.

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Speaker 1: If it's like the first generation fitbit UM, it's pretty

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Speaker 1: much only going to give a sort of direction and

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Speaker 1: time and not a whole lot else. The more um

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Speaker 1: kind of modern fitbits have a little bit more information

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Speaker 1: like pulse and pace and speed and a little bit

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Speaker 1: more granularity that could help us sort of geo locate

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Speaker 1: like how her run went and some of those things,

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Speaker 1: so that information is going to be vital UM. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, we actually used UM for people

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Speaker 1: who have watched our show Hunted UM, which is a

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Speaker 1: reality TV show chasing contestants trying to go off the grid.

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Speaker 1: We actually a fit It was actually really key to

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Speaker 1: our investigation. So this that data could be incredibly valuable

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Speaker 1: and helpful. If somebody in the family knows how to

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Speaker 1: log into her fitbit account UM, which usually that data

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Speaker 1: stored on the cloud, they may be able to get

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Speaker 1: some of the information faster than just waiting for the subpoena. Also,

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Speaker 1: the mother, Laura Calderwood, speaking out in the last hours.

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Speaker 1: Listen to what the mom says. It is just, you know,

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Speaker 1: an emotional roller coaster. It's a nightmare she's unable to

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Speaker 1: wake up from. Laura Calderwood can't look anywhere in her

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Speaker 1: hometown of Brooklyn, Iowa without seeing her daughter Molly's face

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Speaker 1: on a missing person poster. It's a reality check every

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Speaker 1: time I see one of those posters. Also, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like she's gone. Twenty year old Molly Tibbots vanished

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Speaker 1: nearly two weeks ago. Her mom immediately knew something bad

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Speaker 1: must have happened. I knew something was terribly wrong. She

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Speaker 1: wouldn't not go to work. My greatest fear is that

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't find her UM, But I can't go there

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Speaker 1: right now. Calderwood says Molly was seen out on a

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Speaker 1: jog around seven thirty pm on ju To the best

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Speaker 1: of my knowledge, I believe she did make it home

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Speaker 1: from the run and Um was in Dalton's home. The

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Speaker 1: family says evidence shows Tibbots was doing homework on her

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Speaker 1: computer after her jog that night. That's Molly's mom speaking

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Speaker 1: to kse c I TV. You know what it is

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Speaker 1: so hard to work cold cases. Know I have worked

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Speaker 1: them myself, especially when you know your co workers and

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Speaker 1: colleagues have already worked the case. But there's a former

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Speaker 1: prosecutor named Kelly Siegler who was a true champion for justice,

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Speaker 1: and she is on a mission across America. What I

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Speaker 1: love about Oxygen's Cold Justice program is that Kelly and

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Speaker 1: her team of detectives take on real unsolved murder cases

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Speaker 1: and get real answers for victims and their families. You

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Speaker 1: will love how immersive this show is. You feel like

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Speaker 1: you're right there with the team writing Shotgun. They are

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Speaker 1: passionate crusaders for justice, and I like that. That's what

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Speaker 1: makes each case so personal to this team. Watch the

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Speaker 1: new season of Cold Justice Saturday, six pm, Eastern, five

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Speaker 1: Central on Oxygen. The search for Iowa student Molly Tibbitts

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Speaker 1: goes on as new information seems to be emerging and

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Speaker 1: unconfirmed sighting of the girl at a truck stop two

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Speaker 1: fifty miles away. Ashley Wilcott, junital judge, founder of child

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Speaker 1: Crime watch dot com. It doesn't seem to me that

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Speaker 1: police believe that was Molly. That's what it sounds like

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Speaker 1: to me too. But I'm you know, the good news

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Speaker 1: is they did look into it, they have investigated. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they know details they haven't shared with us. But Nancy,

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Speaker 1: this is why I love your show, because somebody out

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Speaker 1: there knows exactly what happened or where she is or

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Speaker 1: what's going on. And so anybody who has anything, even

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Speaker 1: if they think it's mine or not important, they've got

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Speaker 1: to report it because they're looking at all the tips

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Speaker 1: and we've got to figure out where she is well

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Speaker 1: as she she didn't just drop off the face of

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Speaker 1: the earth all right now. Now we hear the mother

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Speaker 1: saying she believes Molly came back to the home to

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Speaker 1: do homework. We we know that she did not disappear jogging.

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Speaker 1: That's wrong, bam. So let let's just talk about the

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Speaker 1: reality as we know. She was back in the home, Ashley.

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Speaker 1: And that's a huge piece because there's also a boyfriend

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Speaker 1: in this and I recognize that the reports are that

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Speaker 1: he had an alibi, he was somewhere that he wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: But having said that, everything that that was reported as

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Speaker 1: this is what's happened, we have now learned as not true.

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Speaker 1: She was back in the home. So did she meet somebody?

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Speaker 1: Did somebody break into the home? We don't know, but

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Speaker 1: somebody knows. It did not happen in a vacuum. It

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Speaker 1: never does, you know. We we also know this to

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Speaker 1: Lee Egan, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter uh speaking

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Speaker 1: of the home. We you hear the investigator, the investigative journalists,

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Speaker 1: the reporters saying, what was the side of the home.

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Speaker 1: What do we know? Well, cops aren't telling us, but

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Speaker 1: we heard the dad say, the fathers say that the

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Speaker 1: dogs were in perfect condition and there was no discussion

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Speaker 1: whatsoever of the home being ransacked or anything taken as

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, Lee, isn't it true that the

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Speaker 1: boyfriend has just come out saying that he doubts pretty

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Speaker 1: seriously if she even locked the door. That's exactly what

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Speaker 1: he said. He said that Brooklyn is such a small

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Speaker 1: town that's it's not common for people to lock their doors.

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Speaker 1: So he thinks that he didn't come out and say

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Speaker 1: he thought somebody broke in, but he did say that

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Speaker 1: he was pretty sure she did not lock their door.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Molly's boyfriend speaking at w o

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Speaker 1: I t V and de Moines. Listen, this is not

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Speaker 1: like her, don'tland Jack is living in a nightmare. I

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Speaker 1: figured i'd speak to her in an hour or so,

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Speaker 1: and right now it's one he can't wake up from.

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Speaker 1: I came home as soon as her mom said that

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Speaker 1: she called the hospital and she wasn't there. The last

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Speaker 1: time the twenty year old saw Molly was on Wednesday

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Speaker 1: at ten pm when he opened a snapchat from her.

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Speaker 1: It was just a selfie with the caption and I

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Speaker 1: don't remember the cat and said, but it looked like

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Speaker 1: she was inside. He never thought he wouldn't hear from

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Speaker 1: her again. When he said her early Thursday morning, he

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Speaker 1: didn't notice the message hadn't been read until her friend

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Speaker 1: called late that afternoon. One of her co workers called me,

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Speaker 1: said Molly had not called into work that day and

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Speaker 1: she hadn't showed up. And then I looked at the

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Speaker 1: messages and she hadn't opened or read any of them.

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Speaker 1: So I started getting in contact with her friends and

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Speaker 1: her family, saying, hey, have you seen her? Have you

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Speaker 1: heard from her? And everybody came up with the same thing. No,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen her since yesterday. He's so sweet. I've

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Speaker 1: never seen her be angry or mean to anybody in

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Speaker 1: the almost three years that we've been dating. To not

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Speaker 1: know where she is unsettling and he's gone numb. If

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Speaker 1: this is her running off, this is just nobody was

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Speaker 1: seen coming. Nobody in nobody in the world, not her family,

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Speaker 1: not me. Nobody would have ever guessed that she would

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Speaker 1: just take off and not tell anybody while law enforcement

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Speaker 1: continued to search for her. There's just one thing he

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Speaker 1: wants Molly to know. I miss you so much. And

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Speaker 1: now that's not all that the boyfriend, dald and Jack

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Speaker 1: had to say. Listen to this I don't want to

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Speaker 1: go racking it through my brain thinking of what happened,

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Speaker 1: what happened, what happened, just driving myself insane because I

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Speaker 1: know everybody else around here is and you just gotta

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Speaker 1: lead by example. I love you, and I miss you,

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Speaker 1: and I want you to come home. Interesting. Interesting that

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Speaker 1: he is gonna not go crazy trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what happened to Molly. You know, the more I listened

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Speaker 1: to it to you, Teresa Peyton, does it sound to

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Speaker 1: you like the boyfriend thinks she just took off on

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Speaker 1: her own. I you know, it's really hard to say

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Speaker 1: because he hasn't really shared with like, well, here are

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Speaker 1: the things she likes to do when we don't hear

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Speaker 1: from her, and even her parents say it's kind of uncharacteristic.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have a couple of sins too, about

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Speaker 1: the dogs, and I mean, I've got to rescue great Pyrenees.

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Speaker 1: There's no way somebody's coming in the front door without

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Speaker 1: the neighbors knowing me knowing um and if and if

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Speaker 1: somebody took me against my will, I'm like, woe be

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Speaker 1: to them? Right with the dogs, now, I don't know

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Speaker 1: the personality of the boyfriend's dog, but I would find

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Speaker 1: it really surprising. It almost feels to me like the

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Speaker 1: dogs knew the person she left with, unless she left alone.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right. I'm sorry, Nancy, I gotta jump in.

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Speaker 1: And it's almost like the boyfriend is kind of talking

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Speaker 1: in past till it's not like her to just take off.

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Speaker 1: If this is her, we would have never seen it coming.

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Speaker 1: And I've always questioned the dogs. You don't walk in

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Speaker 1: on dogs. I used to have a German shepherd in

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Speaker 1: the Belgian Malon law. And to Teresa's point, you're not

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Speaker 1: getting me out of the house without the neighbors and

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Speaker 1: everyone else hearing it. So it had to be someone

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Speaker 1: the dogs were comfortable with if someone came inside that home.

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Speaker 1: You know, another issue regarding the dogs that you guys

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Speaker 1: are focusing on. The dogs were kept in the basement.

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Speaker 1: So if the dog, if she went jogging, took the

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Speaker 1: dogs for a walk, brings them in, feeds them, whatever,

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Speaker 1: puts them in the basement, they would have no idea

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Speaker 1: what was going on upstairs. The dogs routinely were kept

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Speaker 1: in the basement. Don't know if that's where they found them.

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Speaker 1: If not, then you're dead on if they were in

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Speaker 1: the basement, it's not gonna help. I think they still

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Speaker 1: would have made a commotion, though, Nancy, if if they heard,

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Speaker 1: because you can't just take in a dolt against their

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Speaker 1: will without them making some type of noise. So I

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Speaker 1: think the dogs still would have make I agree. But

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Speaker 1: let's look at the timeline too, Karen Smith, forensics expert.

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Speaker 1: It was much later when the day had passed, and

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Speaker 1: it was much later when the boyfriend, Dalton Jack realizes

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Speaker 1: she hasn't come to work. He drives back the two hours.

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Speaker 1: The dogs are not gonna be bersark still at that point,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm all about dogs. I have a rescue dog,

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Speaker 1: a rescue cat to rescue guinea pigs. But to say,

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Speaker 1: to suggest that somebody she knew because the dogs were

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Speaker 1: not in a froth, you know a day later that

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Speaker 1: that means nothing to me. Karen, No, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: much to me. And and like you said, if they're

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Speaker 1: in the basement, yes there may have been a commotion,

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Speaker 1: would have been overheard. I don't know. I'm really not

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Speaker 1: familiar with with the home or where she was living

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Speaker 1: at the time. But yeah, when you come home and

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Speaker 1: the dogs are behaving, like, hey, you know, feed me,

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Speaker 1: give me water. I'm hungry. It's great to see you.

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Speaker 1: My tails wagging. They're not going to give away that

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Speaker 1: something nefarious has happened in the house. My question goes

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Speaker 1: to the forensics and all of the doors. If they

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Speaker 1: were unlocked, that's fine, but did they check. I'm sure

428
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: they did all the windows, the other doors. Um, was

429
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: there any swabs of the door handles taken? And he

430
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: swabs of the locks, things that they can follow up on,

431
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: some feign DNA that may be there. That's where my

432
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: forensic brain goes at this point. Another issue that we're

433
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: now learning to Dr Brian Russell. Maybe you can explain

434
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: this to me. You're also a psychologist, host of IDs

435
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: yet show Fatal Vows, Dr Brian. The boyfriend Dalton Jack

436
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: has now also come out and said he doubts, really

437
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: seriously that she locked the doors. He says, nothing ever

438
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,959
Speaker 1: happens in the town, it's less than two thousand people.

439
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: He doesn't think she locked the doors. What's that mentality,

440
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: Dr Brian. Well, there's a certain flatness to the way

441
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: that he speaks about this, and I can, on the

442
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: one hand, see how he may be sort of um,

443
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 1: sort of opening various doors to things that could have

444
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: had like alluding to, well, maybe she could have run away,

445
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: or maybe you shoe didn't lock the door and there

446
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: could have been a home invasion, and and then making

447
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: this kind of bizarre comment about well, I'm not really

448
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: going to wrack my brain trying to figure it all out.

449
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: And and I can see how some listeners may be thinking, Okay,

450
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: I'm despite the fact that we hear he's got an alibi,

451
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: I'm I'm having some suspicions about him. But I can

452
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: also see how he may be a little bit of

453
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: just sort of a typical sort of self focused millennial

454
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: that that this is really bothering me, and people are

455
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: suspecting me, and and and so I want to deflect,

456
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: and I want to I want to make it clear

457
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: that I am very upset and I don't have anything

458
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: to do with this, and it's really upsetting me. Okay.

459
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: So another thing, though, that I would like to point

460
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: out here is that you've heard Teresa Peyton say a

461
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: couple of times, uh that when you are looking for

462
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: data from somebody's electronic devices, whether it be their cell phone,

463
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: their fit, that whatever you might have to wait for

464
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: a subpoena process to play out. And that's true. And

465
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: one thing that I think parents listening to this can

466
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: learn today is that when your child becomes an adult,

467
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: if something like this, God forbid occurs, you are not

468
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: going to be able to just call up a T

469
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: and T, call up Apple, call up whoever, and say

470
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: our child's missing. I'm the mom, I want the information.

471
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way when you're dealing with an adult.

472
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: And so this is reason number you know, fifty seven

473
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: for parents of young adults who are off at college

474
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: like this young woman, was to get your child to

475
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: do powers of attorney that give you the ability to

476
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: step into their legal shoes and get at their information,

477
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: get into their car, get into their apartment, get into

478
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: their bank accounts, get into their credit card records, all

479
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: the kinds of things. Is that you might otherwise, as

480
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: Teresa wisely pointed out, have to wait for a subpoena

481
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: to do and as we know, every hour that passes by,

482
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: it gets statistically less likely. I'm sorry to say that

483
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: we're going to find somebody alive. Back to Teresa Peyton

484
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: joining us, Let's take a look at exactly what Tibet's

485
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: boyfriend Dalton Jack says, quote, it's more than likely because

486
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: nobody ever thought there was a reason to lock the

487
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: doors is Brooklyn. Nothing ever happens in Brooklyn. That's why

488
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: it's just a blind sided situation. We know the twenty

489
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: year old girls staying to dog sit at her boyfriend's home.

490
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: Were the doors unlocked. We've heard nothing Teresa about a

491
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: fourth century. Yeah, so here's here's what I'd be doing.

492
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: If she has a work computer, I would go to

493
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,719
Speaker 1: the office. I would ask for her last Internet searches, documents,

494
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: access to her cloud accounts the family, UM or the investigators.

495
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: If she left the device behind that she was doing

496
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: the homework on, UM, we need to get in those

497
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: personal cloud accounts. We may actually be able to see

498
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: other messages she sent back and forth. UM. Candidly, I

499
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: would track the digital footprint of the boyfriend and any

500
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: friends around him. There could be some jealousy, I mean,

501
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: who knows. I mean basically, you've got to take sort

502
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: of the circle of trusts that was around her and

503
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: look at everybody's digital footprints. UM, look for her log

504
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: and information, Look for I P addresses, look for WiFi hotspots,

505
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: that she was connecting to from these cloud accounts, because

506
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: that could tell you, well, after she went jogging, she

507
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: went to a coffee shop and she connected to a

508
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: Starbucks WiFi or you know a local UM coffee shop WiFi.

509
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: Look for her web in search cash pull that off

510
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: the computer. UM do password resets if she's not logged in.

511
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: Most people stay logged in all the time to all

512
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: of their accounts, to their mail accounts, their social media accounts,

513
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: their cloud accounts, and oftentimes it's just a matter of

514
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: opening up the account and you can see the information

515
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: and then there's all that metadata in there that could

516
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: tell us her pattern of life before she disappeared, which

517
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: then we could use to correlate and maybe guess what

518
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: happened to her and where did she go next. The

519
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: other thing I haven't heard mention is does she drive

520
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: a car and does that car have Is it a

521
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: newer car that may have a tracking device. Is it

522
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: a newer car or did they post factory install uh

523
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: satellite radio because if they did, we could track some

524
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: of the movements. Again, we gotta get her pattern of

525
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: life before she left, so we have to be building

526
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: where do we think she went, what are all those

527
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: clues and following up all those well at the same

528
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: time building up what led to that disappearance, because chances

529
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: are maybe it was a chance meeting at the coffee shop,

530
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: maybe with somebody at work, maybe it was somebody at school.

531
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: We don't know. And until we start getting that profile

532
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: set up, um, you know, every lead's not gonna you know,

533
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: it may look wonderful or it may look bad. We

534
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: don't know until we can sort of match it back

535
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: up to that that digital footprint. All of this with

536
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: a backdrop of a destination wedding in the Dominican Republic.

537
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: The boyfriend Dalton Jack and his brother Blake were on

538
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: the cuts planning to leave the small town, Iowa home

539
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: for a once in a lifetime trip to Dominican Republic.

540
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: The brother, twenty three year old Blake, set to Mary,

541
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: his fiancee, by the beach in front of Dalton and

542
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: Molly Tibbitts um he had jokingly told Dalton Jack he

543
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: should propose to Tibbitts on their trip to Dominican Republic. Now,

544
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: with that in the background, one of the happiest times

545
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: of their life has now turned into a nightmare. Lee Egan.

546
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: I understand they have postponed the wedding. They postponed the wedding,

547
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: and Blake, the brother, is lashing out at all the

548
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: backlash that they're getting. He is trying to convince people

549
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: there's no way him or anyone and his family had

550
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 1: anything to do with her disappearance, and that the wedding

551
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: is off while they continue to help search for her.

552
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: You know what, Dr Brian, I don't blame them. I

553
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't want a wedding, my wedding that for me to

554
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: have the memory that the whole time during the wedding,

555
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: I was thinking about, where is Molly? Feeling guilty for

556
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: being at a destination wedding and not looking for her. Yeah,

557
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: I think they had to postponent. Of course, if they

558
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: had not, I would have thought that was that was

559
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: morbidly fascinating because I just got married last month, and

560
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: and I can't imagine having had that ceremony with a

561
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: pall like this cast over it and cast over my family,

562
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: and for I don't know how anybody could come to

563
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: it and enjoy it, let alone enjoy it myself. So

564
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, I just keep coming back to the statistics

565
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: on this and you know, you look at was this

566
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: her in the truck stop? I think the statistics would

567
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: say it's it's very unlikely, given all the publicity around

568
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: this case, that if if the driver of the truck

569
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: in which she showed up and left the truck stop

570
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: had anything to do with that, that that they would

571
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: have let that happen, that they would have let themselves

572
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: be seen there. And I also have to point out

573
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: that that, you know, if if she were home alone

574
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: in the house, didn't lock the doors, locked them whatever, uh,

575
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: and there were some kind of a home invasion, the

576
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: statistics would say the purpose was a sexual assault. And

577
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: then the statistics would also say it's very unusual that

578
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: that they would have the person who perpetrated that would

579
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: have been taken her from the scene. I mean, if

580
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: she was there by herself, there would be no need

581
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: to take her to some other place to to do

582
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: the assault. So it makes me think that that that

583
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: whomever she came in contact with that night, she thought

584
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: she was safe with. Initially, I know that Blake Jack

585
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: the brother, said that all the scrutiny on him and

586
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: his brother is very very hurtful. Investigators say they have

587
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: confirmed the whereabouts of both of them. The reward in

588
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: the search for Molly Tibbitts now climbing up to thirty

589
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: thousand dollars tipline eight hundred four five to one one

590
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: one one, eight hundred four five to one one one

591
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: one or five one five two to three hundred five

592
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: one five two to three hundred. In the last hours,

593
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: l A p D release dramatic body cam video of

594
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: a shooting. It all goes down at a Central Lutheran church.

595
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: Take a listen to the won one call emergen, Hi,

596
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: I want someone who stopped somebody. I location. I need

597
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: the police now. I don't know where you are. There're

598
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: four to five time own avenue. That a housetop, priman

599
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: of business. It's a listening to the church. That's a church.

600
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: Is the person looked at the stabbing still there? Yes?

601
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: Or is it a man? I want? Is the black

602
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: but it's Hispanic man. We'll call it your pathers. You

603
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: have on he has a marooon. Start with green army

604
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: short raziness abulance turning six two five tow on avenue

605
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: six two five on the avenue at Central Lutheran Church.

606
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: That's the Spanic ring. It burnsady shirt, green camel short

607
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 1: still at the location. It's Goll three incident two six

608
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: seven one ear Now, I want you to have the

609
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: backdrop of what went down outside of the Central Lutheran

610
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: Church in l A. What we know is that the attacker,

611
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: Gearmo Perez, tried to saw off a hostage's head. That's

612
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: the report, tried to saw off a hostage's head right

613
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: there in a group of people. So have that in

614
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: mind when we are taking a look at l A

615
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: p D's reaction. Now take a listen to Commander Alan

616
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: Hamilton's he's presenting the radio traffic from the l A

617
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: p D helicopter frantically directing patrol cars to the scene. Listen,

618
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: and l APD helicopter arrived overhead at the scene and

619
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: directed the responding patrol units to prepress his location. An

620
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 1: officer in the helicopter also warned the responding units that

621
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: pres had a large knife in his hand. Here's the

622
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: audio of that broadcast. A backup, suspect, don't have the

623
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: knife in his hand at a skateboard and have you

624
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: victory only if I get one unit to Tyrone and

625
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: one north of victory at Gilmour and all their case.

626
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: You're hearing as cauts frantically direct patrol cars to this incident.

627
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Alan Duke, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Alan,

628
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: tell me what happened. This happened at a food shelter

629
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: that is in Van Nuys, just two blocks from the

630
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: police station. The Van Nuys police station. Every day, all

631
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: of the homeless people and other people who need food

632
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: to line up, and this man was a regular there.

633
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: Perez was somebody that people knew. He was there with

634
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: his girlfriend, her name Esther, and they got into an

635
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 1: argument at the food shelters standing in line. Perez then

636
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: pulled out a knife and cut his girlfriend, cut her

637
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: on the hand, and that's when that nine one one

638
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: call was placed, the first one that we heard, and

639
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: police rushed to the scene. He didn't leave, he didn't flee.

640
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: Like I said, This was just two blocks from the

641
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: police station. It didn't take them long to get there.

642
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: And as you're hearing in all of our audio, you

643
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: hear them frantically rushing there, but of course following their protocol.

644
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: As we are hearing, when they get there, they see

645
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: him and Los Angeles Police Commander Alan Hamilton's then shows

646
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: us the body cam and by the way, you can

647
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: see this on crime online dot com the body cam

648
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: that the l a p D has just released. In

649
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,439
Speaker 1: this you show you see what the officers saw when

650
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: they arrived on the scene. You know, Alan, right now,

651
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: the l a p D taking a lot of heat

652
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: because an innocent bystander was also shot during all of this.

653
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: Take a listen to again. L a p D Commander

654
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: Alan Hamilton's peress began walking away from the officers and

655
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 1: went over to a woman standing against the wall. Peress

656
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 1: dropped the chair. It took the woman hostage by grabbing

657
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: her and moving her in front of him. He then

658
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: placed a large knife to her throat and gripped it

659
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: opposite ends with both hands and applied pressure. Witnesses stated

660
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: that he moved the knife in his sawing motion against

661
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: her throat and cut her throat. That is when three

662
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: officers fired their handguns at Perez. Perez was struck by

663
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: gunfire and fell to the ground. Tragically, Perez's hostage was

664
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 1: also struck by gunfire and collapse. Okay, this is what

665
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: we know. We know the l a p D first

666
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: tried using bean bags shotguns all right to try to

667
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: stop Perez and you can hear them shooting bean bags,

668
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: being bag ready, being bag ready, as they order him

669
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: repeatedly to drop his knife to visit hill private investigator.

670
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: A beam back round is also um a flexible baton round.

671
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: It's fired, it's like a shotgun shell, but it is

672
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: less lethal. What is it? Yeah, that's exactly right, man,

673
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: it's less than lethal force. It's just what it says,

674
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: a bean bag that leaves a pretty large bruise on you.

675
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: It hurts really bad. So these officers try less than

676
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: lethal force. And this is why I always say on

677
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: my podcast Beyond the Badge, everyone wants the Monday morning quarterback,

678
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: split second decision that that officers have, and I definitely

679
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: don't want to, you know, Monday morning quarterback, their decision

680
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: to actually fire those rounds. But everything happened so fast.

681
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: He took this hostage so quickly, he put the knife

682
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 1: to her throat. And let's not forget the number one

683
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: job of the police officers to protect. So we can

684
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: question it all day, but that's unfortunate week the life

685
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: of a police officer. Everything happened so fast. Well, I'm

686
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 1: looking at a photo. Somebody managed to take a quick shot.

687
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: He's got the woman from behind. He's holding her with

688
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: both arms with a really big knife across her throat.

689
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: Gearmo Perez holding a knife to the throat of Elizabeth Tollison. Uh.

690
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: Police opened fire and the guy somehow at that point

691
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: manages to grab a folding chair and use it as

692
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: a shield to deflect the b bag rounds. All right,

693
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: that's what we know. So Alan, do you were on

694
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: the scene. What did you observe? Well, I got one

695
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: of my favorite restaurants is right across from this in

696
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: Van Nuys, and I was going there on this this Saturday,

697
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: and I saw the police helicopter over, and of course

698
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: I'm a journalist. I pulled out my recorder and start

699
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: asking people. And it turns out I was talking to

700
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: a man who was standing just feet away. Let's listen

701
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: to what he says he saw and then we can

702
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: talk about it. We have. He was trying to just

703
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: stabbed Xter, his ext girlfriend, and he did. He stabbed her.

704
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: He was on the ground. He was just shooting on

705
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: a stabbing, and there was a stabbing, then a double murder,

706
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: a double homicide. So two people are dead. Two people

707
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: are dead, and the perpetrator and affect him who he

708
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: was grabbing around his neck trying to keep the police

709
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: from tazing him, and they seen him grabbed her and

710
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: then they started shooting him and killed her while he

711
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: was holding onto its police involved shooting. It's a police chilly,

712
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: The police gut no police. The only ones had done.

713
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: Nobody had done but the police. And it was the

714
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: police that was on the far left side is the

715
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: one who did most of the gun. Whoever he was

716
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: was right now, I'm here nor I know it's position.

717
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: Somebody was having an argument and it was already estimated

718
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: to the knives, who were just anybody her. He tried

719
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: to stab his girlfriend, and he tried to stab his girlfriend.

720
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: The presses at him trying to stab his girlfriend. He

721
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: grabbed another girl and held on to her, and the

722
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: police shot him and he killed the girl while he

723
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: was holding him. Me and the guy with the knife

724
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: killed the girl. Yeah, so the police shot the killer

725
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: and shot another shot that girl she got shot? What

726
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: was it esther and her? They said, yeah, it was esther.

727
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: They killed esther. I don't know. I think she just

728
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: got stabbed. She got stabbed, and did you see it happened. Yeah,

729
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: I saw it happen from the beginning to the end.

730
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: They could have kept on tasting. And because he had

731
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: her in years on, they seen you grabb her go away.

732
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 1: They're supposed to gunn the man down with a victim.

733
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: She was a victim, and they killed her. He kill you,

734
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: notly gud her down, Laura Nancy. Let me say this,

735
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: these people knew these victims, or the victim and the perpetrator.

736
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: They knew them and they knew them well, and so

737
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: they were very upset. But in the aftermath, with the

738
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 1: release of the video, it's much more understandable that these

739
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: police officers, this guy was chopping her head off. What

740
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: are they supposed to do? And to Dr Brian Russell,

741
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: lawyer and psychologist hit show Fatal VAL's host Brian, I

742
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: really am on the cop side on this. They go in,

743
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: they make a split second decision, and these bystanders are

744
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: acting like the cops are the bad guys in this scenario.

745
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: They're not the ones holding a knife to a woman's throat.

746
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: They're trying their best to get the bad guy. I

747
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: really hate the way the tables are turned against the

748
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: cops on this. I'm not saying that there are not

749
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: cops that do bad things, that have done horrible things,

750
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: but in this case that is not true. That's right,

751
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,479
Speaker 1: there are, but it's statistically hardly any. And I think

752
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: that is very relevant here because I'm with you, I

753
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: don't see what else they could have done at the

754
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: point when the assailant had this hostage in his grasp

755
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: and was starting to cut. I don't know what else

756
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: they could have done but fire on the suspect and

757
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: risk hitting the victim at that point. What I think

758
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: is interesting to me is the choice that they made

759
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: prior to that point to try the non lethal force

760
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: on the guy, to try the bean bags instead of

761
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: shooting him at that time before he made contact with

762
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: this hostage. And again I'm really not faulting the police.

763
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I think that this may be

764
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: an illustration of something that I have been saying for years,

765
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: which is that we've had so many instances in which

766
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: the police have been accused. You heard it here, You're

767
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: there are murderers. They want to kill these people that

768
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: I have cautioned for years that we're going to get

769
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: to a point where we have cops that are actually

770
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 1: so afraid to use lethal force even when it is justified,

771
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: that they're going to be gun shy and they're going

772
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: to wait long enough to use it, that we're gonna

773
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: have cops getting killed, and we're gonna have third parties

774
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: getting killed. And I think this may be an illustration

775
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: of that, the unintended consequences of always pointing people certain people,

776
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: always pointing the finger at the cops, and assuming the

777
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: worst about the cops. This may be an example of

778
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: that coming home to roost. You know, to go ahead.

779
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I couldn't agree more with Dr Brian Russell.

780
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: I've been seeing that for years. I've said it on

781
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: my podcast, i said it on Fox News this past weekend.

782
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: Everyone does not want to be the next cop on CNN,

783
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: you heard those people. They could have tasted them. I

784
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: can show you a hundred videos where police have tased

785
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: people and it had no effect on them. So everyone

786
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: is so quick to judge the police that police are

787
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: starting to get gun shy and not reacting as fast

788
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 1: as they have. And that's why we've seen thirty three

789
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: police officers this year killed in the line of duty

790
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: because they're all afraid to be the next cop in

791
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: the mainstream media for their split second actions. Nancy, and

792
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 1: of course, now to Astu Wilcott, Thomason's family plans to

793
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: find a wrongful death lawsuit against the l A p D.

794
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, sometimes I wonder how they even

795
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: get out of bed and go in the morning. Ashley,

796
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm the same, Nancy. And here's the thing. It's it's

797
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: a there's no winning right, there's no way to figure

798
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: out what the best action is. And when they follow

799
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: their protocol and they're protecting and they're in the chaotic

800
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: situation in which they have found themselves and there is

801
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: a person who is committing this type of crime, you

802
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: can't say that they acted inappropriately. And then they face

803
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: lawsuits and challenges. And I have friends who are very

804
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: good friends, who I respect greatly in law enforcement, and

805
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: these are the kinds of things and kinds of lawsuits

806
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: that do make them question why they're doing what they're

807
00:49:51,200 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 1: doing and how to get out of it. Try to

808
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend,