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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V.

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Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. Today we have another episode

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Speaker 1: inspired by my recent trip to England. While I was there,

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Speaker 1: I kept running into references to chemist Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin.

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Speaker 1: She was in the History of Science Museum in Oxford

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Speaker 1: and the Alexander Fleming Laboratory Museum in London. And then

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Speaker 1: after I got home, I realized my phone had tagged

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Speaker 1: a bunch of pictures from the Oxford University Museum of

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Speaker 1: Natural History and the Pitt Rivers Museum as being on

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Speaker 1: Dorothy Hodgkin Road. It started to seem like the universe

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Speaker 1: was trying to tell me something. Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin has

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Speaker 1: come up on two of our previous episodes, the one

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Speaker 1: on the discovery of insulin and the one on the

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Speaker 1: discovery of penicillin, because she earned the Nobel Prize in

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Speaker 1: Chemistry in nineteen sixty four for her use of X

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Speaker 1: ray crystallography to determine the structures of important biochemical substances,

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Speaker 1: including those two. By the end of her career, as

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Speaker 1: well as vitamin B twelve. These discoveries were a step

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Speaker 1: and being able to synthesize these molecules and to find

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Speaker 1: other similar molecules that could have the same effects on

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Speaker 1: the body. A lot of important things came out of

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Speaker 1: this research. This is a two part episode. In part one,

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Speaker 1: we are going to talk about her early life and

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Speaker 1: some of the really formative moments in that early life

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Speaker 1: that led her to this career in X ray crystallography,

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Speaker 1: and then in part two we will talk about her

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Speaker 1: research and all those discoveries that she made. Also, usually

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Speaker 1: in my episodes, once someone is out of their childhood,

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Speaker 1: I usually call them mostly by their last name, unless

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Speaker 1: that would be confusing. I think this is kind of

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Speaker 1: a holdover from Earth earlier style guides that were part

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Speaker 1: of my career. Yeah, writing and editing stuff. During her life, though,

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Speaker 1: Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin was really insistent that people call her Dorothy,

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Speaker 1: and I saw so many people say this about her

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Speaker 1: that I started to feel a little weirdly formal calling

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Speaker 1: her Crowfoot or Hodgken. In this episode, she wanted to

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Speaker 1: be called Dorothy, and a lot of people said that,

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Speaker 1: So that's mostly what we'll do. Dorothy may Crowfoot was

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Speaker 1: the first of four daughters born to John and Grace

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Speaker 1: Mary Crowfoot. Grace Mary was known as Molly. She was

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Speaker 1: born on May twelfth, nineteen ten, in Cairo, Egypt. The

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Speaker 1: family was living there because of John's work. Britain had

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Speaker 1: established what is sometimes called a veiled Protectorate over Egypt

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Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty two, making it nominally still part of

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Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire, but under British administration, and John worked

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Speaker 1: in the Ministry of Public Instruction in both Egypt and Sudan.

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Speaker 1: When Dorothy's mother, Molly was growing up, she had wanted

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Speaker 1: to become a doctor, and while this wasn't completely impossible

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Speaker 1: in England in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries,

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Speaker 1: it was really difficult, and her parents did not see

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Speaker 1: the need for women to attain an education beyond finishing school,

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Speaker 1: so Molly instead trained as a midwife. This training probably

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Speaker 1: played a role in her marriage to Dorothy's father. Mollie's

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Speaker 1: attraction to John was immediate, but he didn't seem to

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Speaker 1: be all that interested in her until about a decade

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Speaker 1: after they first met, when she wrote to tell him

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Speaker 1: she had gotten this training and was prepared for overseas service.

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Speaker 1: She was particularly interested in the idea of being able

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Speaker 1: to provide pregnancy care where women didn't have access to

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Speaker 1: medical practitioners, or where it was considered inappropriate for women

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Speaker 1: to be examined by a man, or for a man

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Speaker 1: to attend their birth Yeah, to kind of re between

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Speaker 1: the lines, that sort of seems like he might have thought,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this person can keep up with

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Speaker 1: my career that involves living and working in Northern Africa

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Speaker 1: and sometimes in places that don't have a lot of resources.

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Speaker 1: And then she was like, I'm on board with it.

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Speaker 1: Actually be me. Yeah. Although she was denied access to

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Speaker 1: a formal higher education, Mollie had a lot of self

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Speaker 1: taught and experiential knowledge and subjects like art, botany, and

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Speaker 1: ancient textiles. Over the course of her life, she came

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Speaker 1: to be seen as an international expert in archaeological textiles

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Speaker 1: in particular. She was also an advocate of educational opportunities

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Speaker 1: for girls, and she helped establish schools for girls and

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Speaker 1: places where John worked. All of this certainly played a

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Speaker 1: role in how supportive Molly was of Dorothy's interest in

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Speaker 1: becoming a scientist. The fact that Molly and John didn't

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Speaker 1: have any sons, may have played a part in how

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Speaker 1: open they were to this as well. John and Molly's

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Speaker 1: work in Northern Africa meant that Dorothy and her sisters

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Speaker 1: had an upbringing that was unusual for most British children,

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Speaker 1: but not unheard of among the children of colonial administrators

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Speaker 1: and other people working for Britain overseas. At the start

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Speaker 1: of the nineteeneens, Dorothy and her sisters were with their

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Speaker 1: parents in Northern Africa for part of the year, and

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Speaker 1: then in England with grandparents during the hottest months of

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Speaker 1: the summer. When World War One started in nineteen fourteen,

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Speaker 1: Mollie took the girls, Dorothy, Joan, and Elizabeth, who was

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Speaker 1: known as Betty, to England, where they lived with grandparents

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Speaker 1: for the duration of the year. Molly returned to Africa

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Speaker 1: and only saw them once before the war was over.

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Speaker 1: She gave birth to their youngest sister, Diana, during the war.

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Speaker 1: These separations from their parents have to have been difficult

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Speaker 1: for the girls, but Dorothy also attributed her independence and

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Speaker 1: her adult life to having been apart from her parents

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Speaker 1: so often and for so long as a child, while

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Speaker 1: being raised mostly by nurses and grandparents, she started attending school,

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Speaker 1: and she became extremely determined to learn. At one point,

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Speaker 1: a nurse wrote a letter to Molly about how Dorothy

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Speaker 1: kept exhausting herself studying, saying, quote, even in her sleep,

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Speaker 1: she was at school and this was not something that

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Speaker 1: Dorothy grew out of. While she was working on her

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Speaker 1: fourth year project at Oxford University, a friend described her

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Speaker 1: as working for almost forty hours straight, really looking like

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Speaker 1: a ghost, and losing weight because she was spending so

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Speaker 1: much time in the lab. After the end of World

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Speaker 1: War One, when Dorothy was about eight, she and her

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Speaker 1: sisters were reunited with their mother, who seems to have

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Speaker 1: wanted to make up for the lost time with them.

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Speaker 1: They found a home near Beckle's, close to where John

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Speaker 1: had grown up. Mollie taught them at home for about

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Speaker 1: a year with a curiculum that she had developed herself.

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Speaker 1: Now was focused on subjects like poetry, history, natural history,

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Speaker 1: and geography. After that year, Dorothy and her sisters briefly

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Speaker 1: attended a school that was established by the Parents' National

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Speaker 1: Educational Union, which was an organization to help parents establish

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Speaker 1: small private schools in people's homes or in rented rooms.

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Speaker 1: As an alternative to local schools that could also help

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Speaker 1: with homeschooling. The Union also trained teachers to work in

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Speaker 1: these schools. This very small school was where Dorothy had

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Speaker 1: her first experience with chemistry and a lesson that involved

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Speaker 1: growing crystals from a solution. Dorothy was ten, and she

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Speaker 1: later said of this quote, I was captured for life

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Speaker 1: by chemistry and by crystals. Before long, Dorothy was putting

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Speaker 1: together her own chemistry lab in her attic room at home,

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Speaker 1: buying materials from the local chemist with her pocket money. Apparently,

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Speaker 1: he didn't put a lot of thought into which chemicals

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Speaker 1: were safe to sell to a child, and her parents

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Speaker 1: trusted her not to do anything really dangerous. Although her

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Speaker 1: experiments did involve using a burner in the house. That

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Speaker 1: was the limiting factor in the chemistry set I had

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Speaker 1: growing up. I had to have parental attention to use

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Speaker 1: the burner, which mostly meant not doing Berner experiments. In

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Speaker 1: addition to her growing fascination with science, Dorothy loved to

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Speaker 1: draw and paint. As she got older, she continued to

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Speaker 1: do this as a hobby and it also became an

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Speaker 1: important part of her work in crystallography. Biographer Georgina Ferry

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Speaker 1: described Dorothy as approaching the work of a scientist with

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Speaker 1: the soul of an artist. When she was eleven, Dorothy

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Speaker 1: started attending Sir John Lehman's School in Beccles that was

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Speaker 1: a co educational school. Although it had separate entrances, dining halls,

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Speaker 1: and plague for boys and girls, there were also classes

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Speaker 1: that were considered only appropriate for one gender, one of

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Speaker 1: those being chemistry, which was only for boys. That doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem totally surprising given ideas about education and gender in

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty when this was happening, but it did seem

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Speaker 1: odd considering that the chemistry teacher, Chris Deeley, was a woman. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: Dorothy and her friend Nora were allowed to take chemistry

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Speaker 1: under the argument that they both planned to go to

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Speaker 1: university and that they would need it. Dealey encouraged Dorothy

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Speaker 1: and her chemistry studies, and Dorothy was also getting encouragement

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Speaker 1: from outside of school. When she was twelve, she and

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Speaker 1: her sister Joan went to visit their father in Sudan.

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Speaker 1: Dorothy met her father's colleague, doctor Af Joseph, who worked

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Speaker 1: at the Welcome Laboratory in Khartoum. Joseph taught her about chemistry,

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Speaker 1: helped her do experiments, and gave her a surveyor's kit

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Speaker 1: that she could use to identify minerals. During this trip,

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Speaker 1: Dorothy also started to become more aware of the effect

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Speaker 1: of British colonial rule on local people. While the same

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Speaker 1: things were true in Egypt when she was born, she

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Speaker 1: was only about four when she was taken to England

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Speaker 1: in the wake of World War One, so she didn't

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Speaker 1: really remember or know what was going on there, but

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Speaker 1: she started to hear about ongoing problems with poverty and disease,

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Speaker 1: and uprisings against British authorities, and the suppression of those uprisings.

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Speaker 1: These were often things she was hearing about rather than

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Speaker 1: directly seeing, although sometimes she did see the aftermath of

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Speaker 1: violent incidents while she was traveling. Molly wanted Dorothy to

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Speaker 1: understand the context of the world she was living in,

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Speaker 1: including these kinds of issues. Dorothy's father was a colonial administrator,

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Speaker 1: but in a lot of ways, he and Molly were

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Speaker 1: idealists and progressive thinkers, at least in the context of

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Speaker 1: their time. For example, John helped establish schools for girls

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Speaker 1: and places where that whole idea was deeply controversial. Molly

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Speaker 1: established a midwiffery school in Khartom, hoping to reduce the

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Speaker 1: practice of genital mutilation also called female circumcision, by offering

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Speaker 1: training to traditional birth attendance. Mollie also joined the League

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Speaker 1: of Nations Union, a peace organization established to support the

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Speaker 1: League of Nations, and she enlisted the children in fundraising efforts,

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Speaker 1: including putting on a pageant to raise money. Molly also

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Speaker 1: established a Brownie troop and then a Girl Guide troop,

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Speaker 1: which her daughters participated in. When Dorothy was sixteen, her

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Speaker 1: mother gave her a gift that had the same kind

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Speaker 1: of impact on her as a first chemistry lesson growing crystals,

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Speaker 1: and we will get to that after a sponsor break.

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Speaker 1: When Dorothy Crowfoot was a teenager, her mother gave her

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Speaker 1: Sir William Henry Bragg's book Concerning the Nature of Things

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Speaker 1: that was published in nineteen twenty five. This book was

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Speaker 1: a collection of Bragg's nineteen twenty three Christmas lectures at

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Speaker 1: the Royal Institution. The Christmas lectures were meant to be

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Speaker 1: accessible to a general audience, including young people, covering science

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Speaker 1: in an engaging and understandable way. Bragg's first lectures that

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Speaker 1: year were on the nature of atoms, gases, and liquids,

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Speaker 1: and the last three were on crystals. One of the

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Speaker 1: things Bragg talked about in these lectures was the use

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Speaker 1: of X rays to study molecules, which is a very

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Speaker 1: new idea. In nineteen fourteen, Max von Laua had been

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Speaker 1: awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for discovering the diffraction

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Speaker 1: of X rays through crystals. Basically, Von Laua realized that

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Speaker 1: if you passed an X ray through a crystal, it

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Speaker 1: created a diffraction pattern on a photographic plate, sort of

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Speaker 1: like the way light passing through a screen creates pattern

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Speaker 1: of shadows. William Henry Bragg and his son, William Lawrence

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Speaker 1: Bragg built on this discovery, finding mathematical relationships between the

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Speaker 1: X rays, the crystals, and the diffraction patterns, and building

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Speaker 1: an X ray spectrometer to study these patterns. The Bragg's

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Speaker 1: discoveries were possible because of the nature of crystals. The

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Speaker 1: atoms of a crystal are arranged in a regular repeating pattern,

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Speaker 1: So when an X ray passes through a crystal, the

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Speaker 1: diffraction pattern that it creates correlates with the pattern of

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Speaker 1: those atoms, creates dark areas that X ray crystallographers can

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Speaker 1: use to figure out the location of each atom and

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Speaker 1: then determine the physical structure of the molecule. The Brag's

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Speaker 1: early work was on the structure of several salts and

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Speaker 1: relatively small molecules, and they were jointly awarded the Nobel

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Speaker 1: Prize in Physics for this work in nineteen fifteen. In

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Speaker 1: her own Nobel lecture, Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin cited one particular

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Speaker 1: passage from William Henry Bragg's concerning the nature of things.

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Speaker 1: That passage was quote, broadly speaking, the discovery of X

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Speaker 1: rays has increased the keenness of our vision over ten

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Speaker 1: thousand times, and we can now see the individual atoms

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Speaker 1: and molecules. But beyond this one quote brags writing about crystals,

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Speaker 1: and these lectures really struck her and I personally find

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Speaker 1: it really beautiful. For example, he wrote, quote order and

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Speaker 1: regularity are the consequence of the complete fulfillment of the

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Speaker 1: attractions which the atoms or molecules exert on one another.

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Speaker 1: When the structure has grown to a size which renders

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Speaker 1: it visible in the microscope or even to the naked eye,

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Speaker 1: the regularity is manifest in the form of the solid

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Speaker 1: body it is what we call a crystal. It is

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Speaker 1: bounded by a number of plane faces, often highly polished

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Speaker 1: in appearance, so that the crystal has a certain charm,

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Speaker 1: due partly to ge and sparkle, partly to perfect regularity

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Speaker 1: of outline. We feel that some mystery and beauty must

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Speaker 1: underlie the characteristics that please us, And indeed that is

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Speaker 1: the case. Nature is telling us how she arranges the

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Speaker 1: molecules when given full opportunity. Later on, he went on

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Speaker 1: to say, quote through the crystal. Therefore, we look down

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Speaker 1: into the first structures of nature, though our eyes cannot

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Speaker 1: read what is there without the use, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: of strong spectacles, which are the X ray methods. In

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Speaker 1: these lectures, Bragg wrote at length about X rays making

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Speaker 1: it possible for people to see things that would otherwise

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Speaker 1: be unobservable, including atoms and molecules. He also wrote about

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Speaker 1: the physical structure of crystals, making it possible for people

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Speaker 1: to observe things that they would not otherwise be able

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Speaker 1: to see. Reading this in her mid teens, Dorothy was

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Speaker 1: absolutely fascinated. Another formative event in Dorothy's life took place

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Speaker 1: more around the same time that she was first reading

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Speaker 1: Bragg's work on X ray crystallography. In September of nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty five, when Dorothy was fifteen, her mother took her

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Speaker 1: to the sixth Assembly of the League of Nations in Geneva, Switzerland.

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Speaker 1: The League of Nations was established in the wake of

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Speaker 1: the First World War to promote international cooperation and to

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Speaker 1: work toward peace through disarmament and the non violent resolution

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Speaker 1: of international disputes. The League of Nations also promoted international

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Speaker 1: cooperation in addressing issues like human trafficking, drug trafficking, the

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Speaker 1: arms trade, and maintaining fair and humane working conditions, not

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Speaker 1: just in the member countries but in other countries where

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Speaker 1: they had commercial or industrial relations. The Protocol for the

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Speaker 1: Pacific Settlement of International Disputes, also called the Geneva Protocol

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Speaker 1: of nineteen twenty four, had been passed the League of

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Speaker 1: Nations General Assembly the previous year. It called for compulsory

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Speaker 1: arbitration among member nations to settle disputes and outline procedures

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Speaker 1: for how that arbitration would be handled. This protocol had

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Speaker 1: received preliminary approval from the member states, but Britain ultimately

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Speaker 1: had not ratified it. One of the speeches Dorothy and

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Speaker 1: Molly listened to was by French delegate Joseph Paul Boncoeur,

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Speaker 1: who was calling for the League to save what it

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Speaker 1: could of the protocol in spite of its failing ratification.

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Speaker 1: While this protocol did not come into effect, the Assembly

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Speaker 1: did call for a disarmament conference that took place in

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Speaker 1: September of nineteen twenty six. Dennis is a whole protocol

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Speaker 1: that was meant to try to prevent war through peaceful

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Speaker 1: negotiation of international disputes. Dorothy described the atmosphere of the

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Speaker 1: General Assembly in the midst of all this as a

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Speaker 1: feeling of quote hope struggling against a sense of doom.

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Speaker 1: Even though the nineteen twenty five or Geneva Protocol went unratified,

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Speaker 1: Dorothy had witnessed the process of nations coming together to

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Speaker 1: try to resolve their differences through dialogue rather than violence.

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Speaker 1: Molly's ongoing anti war activism was shaped in part by

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Speaker 1: the loss of all four of her brothers during World

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Speaker 1: War One, and Dorothy's really started to grow after attending

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Speaker 1: the Assembly with her This idea that problems should be

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Speaker 1: solved through dialogue was something that she would carry with

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Speaker 1: her for the rest of her life. In nineteen twenty seven,

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Speaker 1: Dorothy took the exams that were required to attain her

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Speaker 1: school certificate, earning distinction in six subjects. She also earned

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Speaker 1: the highest overall marks of any girl who took the

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Speaker 1: exams through her local board that year, and those high

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Speaker 1: marks earned her a cash prize. These high scores were

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Speaker 1: not altogether surprising, considering how bright and dedicated she had

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Speaker 1: already demonstrated herself to be as a student. She had

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Speaker 1: earned really high marks at other times in her education.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes she had been placed in classrooms with students who

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Speaker 1: were a year or more older than she was. But

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Speaker 1: her parents also thought formal schooling was only one of

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Speaker 1: an array of educational experiences that their children should have,

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Speaker 1: So Dorothy had some big gaps at her time at

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Speaker 1: the Lehman's School, including an entire spring term spent with

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Speaker 1: her grandmother in Italy. So she got these really high

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Speaker 1: scores in spite of just like not having been present

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Speaker 1: for a lot of the material. Ironically, one of the

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Speaker 1: subjects that she did not earn distinction in was chemistry,

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Speaker 1: and earlier on in her education she had been ranked

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Speaker 1: in the bottom half of the chemistry class. Dorothy's goal

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00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,919
Speaker 1: at this point was to go to Oxford, and it

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00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 1: seems to have been her father's goal for her as well.

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Speaker 1: She wrote of him wanting her to be educated in

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Speaker 1: the same way that a son would have been. But

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00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 1: it really SEMs like nobody had really looked into the

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00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 1: requirements for attending Oxford, not Dorothy, not her family, and

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Speaker 1: not any of her teachers at the Lehman School. She

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Speaker 1: didn't know she would need to take an entrance examination

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Speaker 1: in Latin, a language that she had no familiarity with

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Speaker 1: at all. She didn't know that her math and science

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Speaker 1: instruction were insufficient. She needed to learn a whole other

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Speaker 1: science besides chemistry, and she needed more advanced math than

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Speaker 1: she had gotten. So Dorothy and her family started planning

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Speaker 1: for her to take the Oxford entrance exams in March

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Speaker 1: of nineteen twenty eight. That was when she was going

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Speaker 1: to take them, not when they started planning, and so

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00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: that gave her about a year to try to get ready.

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00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: During that time, she learned botany from her mother and

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Speaker 1: Latin from George Watson, who was head master of the

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Speaker 1: Lehman School. The math part was a particular challenge. Dorothy

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00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: had multiple people who could help her, including a former

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Speaker 1: student at the Lehman's School who had gone to London University.

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Speaker 1: But she really struggled if she could not understand why

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Speaker 1: a particular answer was the right one. Even if she

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Speaker 1: knew that the answer was right, if she couldn't explain

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00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: why it was right, she would get really hung up

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00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 1: on that part of it. Her sister Elizabeth described finding

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00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 1: Dorothy crying over her math homework because she knew that

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00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 1: it was right, but she could not explain why. We

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00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: will get to what happened when she went for her

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00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: entrance exams after we paused for a sponsor break. Dorothy

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00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,280
Speaker 1: Crowfoot sat for her Oxford entrance exams in March of

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty eight, and she was interviewed at Somerville College,

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Speaker 1: named for scientist and science writer Mary Somerville, who we

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00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: covered on the show in twenty twenty three. Somerville College

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Speaker 1: was one of the first women's colleges established at Oxford,

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Speaker 1: and there were several women's colleges by the time Dorothy

345
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: applied there, but isabel Fry had encouraged Dorothy to apply

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Speaker 1: at Somerville. In particular, Isabelle ran a school that two

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00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: of Dorothy's sisters were attending, and Isabelle's sister Marjorie was

348
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: principal at Somerville. Beyond that personal connection, Isabelle thought Dorothy

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00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: had a good chance of being accepted at Somerville because

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Speaker 1: very few women were applying to study science. Somerville also

351
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: had the strongest academic reputation of the Oxford women's colleges. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: all of Dorothy's preparation over that year and maybe also

353
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: that connection to the principle paid off, and she was

354
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Speaker 1: admitted to Somerville College, Oxford, to start in the fall

355
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Speaker 1: of nineteen twenty eight. Before she went, she participated in

356
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Speaker 1: an archaeological dig in jiash and what is now Jordan,

357
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Speaker 1: and that was co sponsored by Yale University. In the

358
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Speaker 1: British School of Archaeology in Jerusalem, Dorothy's father, Jo had

359
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: been appointed director of the school. He had retired from

360
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: his British Civil Service job in Khartoum, Sudan a couple

361
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Speaker 1: of years previously, at the earliest age that he could

362
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: retire and still receive his full pension, and it seemed

363
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: like the family might be reunited in England after years

364
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Speaker 1: of long separations because of his work in Northern Africa.

365
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: But then he accepted this appointment. It might seem strange

366
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: for John to have accepted this job when he was

367
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 1: really on the verge of retiring and being with his family,

368
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: but he had always wanted to be an archaeologist. Before

369
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: he started working at the Ministry of Education in Cairo,

370
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: he had studied archaeology and he had gone on some digs,

371
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: including on behalf of the British Museum. Not ignoring the

372
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: fact that there's a lot of problematic stuff at the

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Speaker 1: British Museum, this is more about the trust that was

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Speaker 1: placed in him going on these sticks. One of his

375
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Speaker 1: earlier jobs in Northern Africa had included being acting Conservator

376
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Speaker 1: of Antiquities in Sudan, but he just did not have

377
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 1: the kind of wealth that was required to fund his

378
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: own archaeological digs, and he also didn't have the kind

379
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: of academic appointment that could allow him to pursue archaeology

380
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: more full time. So this directorship was basically his dream

381
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: job that came along later in his life, and it

382
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: was a big enough deal for him to just put

383
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: off actually retiring. One of the things that Dorothy did

384
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: at this dig was work on the excavation and documentation

385
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: of mosaic floors dating back to the Eastern Roman Empire

386
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: in the fifth and sixth centuries, and she was really

387
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: fascinated by their geometry and their repeating patterns, much like

388
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: the regular patterns of the atoms in crystals, and she

389
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: started drafting a reproduction of two of these mosaics at

390
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 1: one tenth scale. The tiles measured about a centimeter square,

391
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: and she represented each of them with a dot of

392
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: She worked on these reproductions for about two years after

393
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: leaving the dig site, and eventually sent them to Yale.

394
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: She also spent some of her time at this dig

395
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: studying physics, using a textbook that her Oxford tutor sent

396
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: to her, since the science she really needed to go

397
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 1: along with the study of chemistry was physics, not botany.

398
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: Dorothy Crowfoot was eighteen when she started at Oxford. Her

399
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: classmates described her as very quiet, which had been true

400
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: in her earlier education as well, but they also said

401
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 1: that she had really interesting things to say if you

402
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: could just get her to start talking. She also had

403
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: some limits and how much time she had available to

404
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: connect with her classmates. An education at Oxford involved a

405
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: lot of independence study, and that was something that Dorothy

406
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: was really well prepared for given how much learning she

407
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: had already done on her own and how often she'd

408
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: been responsible for her younger sisters when her parents were away.

409
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,959
Speaker 1: She really threw herself into this independent study, especially because

410
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: Oxford was not actually teaching X ray crystallography yet, so

411
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,239
Speaker 1: she was having to study everything involved with that on

412
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: her own. In addition to that, Somerville students were allowed

413
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: to attend lectures at the other Oxford colleges, and since

414
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: there weren't many scientists at Somerville, Dorothy was spending a

415
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: lot of time somewhere else. She came back to her

416
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: college a lot of the time only for meals and sleep.

417
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: At the same time, she participated in a lot of

418
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: activities at Oxford. She worked on archaeological digs at Roman

419
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: sites in the area. She was in the Labor Club,

420
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: the Archaeological Society, and the Junior Scientific Club. Marjorie Frye

421
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: also ran the Somerville Crime Club, which was focused on

422
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: penal reform and the abolition of capital punishment, and Dorothy

423
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: was a member of that as well. There were a

424
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: lot of rules around women and their behavior at Oxford,

425
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: including how and whether women were allowed to interact with men,

426
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: and there were also rules that affected the very existence

427
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: of the women's colleges. Their enrollment was capped. They were

428
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 1: prohibited from expanding beyond one woman for every four men

429
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: studying across all of Oxford. The women's colleges were a

430
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: lot newer than the other colleges at Oxford. Those other

431
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: men's colleges had large endowments a lot of the time

432
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: thanks to generations of alumni making donations to them. The

433
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: women's colleges didn't have that history or that money, and

434
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: then because of that one in four limit, they were

435
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: also barred from just bringing in a lot more paying

436
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: women's students to try to bring in more income to

437
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: the colleges. The women's colleges tend to just have less

438
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: in the way of money and supplies and equipment than

439
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: the men's colleges did. In nineteen thirty one, Dorothy was

440
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: preparing to start on her fourth year research project, which

441
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: was required for graduation. From home. One of the centers

442
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: of chrystallography in Europe was Germany, and a lot of

443
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: papers on physics and chemistry were being published in German,

444
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: so she took a trip to Germany to both work

445
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: on her German and to get some more lab experience.

446
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: In spite of her interest in things like the peace

447
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: movement and the League of Nations, really does not seem

448
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: like she had a clear idea of what was happening

449
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: in German politics in nineteen thirty one, or if she did,

450
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: she might not have taken it very seriously. This was

451
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: really a pattern in her life. Sometimes it seemed like

452
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: she had an overly optimistic or even naive belief in

453
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: the power of international cooperation and peace through dialogue, to

454
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: the point that she did not see or fully believe

455
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: negative or even horrific things that were happening. I didn't

456
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: put it in the outline, but in I think nineteen

457
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: thirty six, she took a trip to Spain when the

458
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: Spanish Civil War was about to start. Like this happened

459
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: more than once. When she made this trip to Germany,

460
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party was gaining support but had not yet

461
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: taken control, so to a lot of people, the situation

462
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: there was escalating and scary at the same time, though

463
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: her hosts in Germany were Jewish, and Dorothy thought that

464
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: they did not seem to be very worried. Although she

465
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: did get some lab time. On this trip, she did

466
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: not do much to improve for German because her parents

467
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: came through Germany on their way back to England from

468
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: a trip, and they took her on a trip to

469
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: visit archaeological museums in Berlin, so not as much pressure

470
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: while traveling with her parents to speak a lot of German.

471
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: By the time Dorothy was ready to start her fourth

472
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: year project, Oxford had set up a basic crystallography lab.

473
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: Before that, she had thought she might have to go

474
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: to London, where the Brags were working, and work on

475
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: her project there, but Herbert Marcus Powell, known as Tiny

476
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: for his small stature, had just been hired as a

477
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: demons at Oxford in the mineralogy department. Demonstrator was essentially

478
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: a junior lecturer position. Powell had hand blown an X

479
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: ray tube and acquired a camera, creating a very basic

480
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: crystallography setup. Dorothy was Powell's first student. Yeah, when we

481
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: say very basic crystallography set up, there was an interview

482
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: that I saw her doing very late in her life

483
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: where she described this camera as horrible. Apparently it was

484
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: very rudimentary compared to what actually would have worked really

485
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: well for doing this kind of work. The two of

486
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: them worked on determining the structure of dimethyl thallium halides,

487
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: which were somewhat more complex than the compounds that had

488
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: already been studied through X ray crystallography. Dorothy grew the

489
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: crystals and she illustrated them, and they would bombard these

490
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: crystals with X rays. The crystals would diffract the X rays,

491
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: which would be picked up by a photographic plate, and

492
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: Dorothy would also document all of this, including drawing illustrations

493
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: of it, and analyze the results. Figuring out how the

494
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: patterns on the plate corresponded to specific atoms required trial

495
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: and error and a lot of math, which Dorothy found

496
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: very difficult. She also found Powell difficult to work with.

497
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: It seems she thought he was more of a micromanager

498
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: than a visionary or a mentor, as she had so

499
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: often done before. She worked herself to exhaustion, leading her

500
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: friends to try to look after her and make sure

501
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: she ate enough rested when she was sick, and spent

502
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: at least some time out of the lab. When I

503
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: say difficult math, as somebody whose math instruction ended with

504
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: pre calculus in nineteen ninety three, not only did I

505
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: not understand this math. I could not figure out how

506
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: to explain just the basic concepts that she was using

507
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: or the tools that she was using to help her

508
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: do it. Math beyond my understanding, beyond my education. Really,

509
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: if I had ever been taught it, I might could

510
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,239
Speaker 1: explain it, but not with an education, stopping with pre

511
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: calculus in nineteen ninety three. After finishing this project, in

512
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two, Dorothy Crowfoot was awarded a first class

513
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: degree in chemistry from Oxford, making her the third woman

514
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: ever to earn that distinction. She also earned a scholarship

515
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: that she could use toward doing further research, and the

516
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: research that she conducted with Herbert Powell was published in

517
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: the journal Nature that year under both of their names.

518
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: And we will get into what happened next in her

519
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: life after she left Oxford next time. This is a

520
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: little cliffhanger today kind of. This is sort of a

521
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: moment where her life is about to make a lot

522
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: of big changes. Bye bye, bub Yeah, I have some

523
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: listener mail. It is a listener mail correction. This email

524
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: is from Scott, and Scott wrote Hi your June first,

525
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six episode The Literary Life of Villa Rosebroo

526
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: repeats a mistake in reference removed from Wikipedia entries for

527
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: My Antonia and Villa Roseboro on June twenty eighth, twenty

528
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: twenty six, based on new research described in Who's Antonia.

529
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: AI attempts to reconceive Jim Burden, published in the Spring

530
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,479
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six edition of The Willa Cather Review. So

531
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: the email then quotes from the episode that is being

532
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: corrected here, which is the part where we talked about

533
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: Willa Cather getting rejected a bunch of times when she

534
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: tried to get My Antonia published, and then Villa Roseboro

535
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: reading it and saying that it needed to be rewritten

536
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: in the point of view of Jim Burden. The email continues,

537
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: my Antonia was never offered to let alone rejected by

538
00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: any publishers. Cather's regular publisher, Hutton Mifflin. Did it sight

539
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: unseen when she first offered it to them. The remainder

540
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: of the anecdote referenced is equally mistaken. Whose Antonia uses

541
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: original source material to explain where it originated, why it

542
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: is incorrect, and to whom it really refers. Next in

543
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: this email, there is a link to the full edition

544
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: to this paper at the Willicather Review, which is behind

545
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: a membership firewall for a year, an abstract in excerpts

546
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: and the work sided of this paper at Academia dot edu,

547
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: and then a YouTube video of the presentation of this paper,

548
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: which was at the June twenty, twenty sixth seventy first

549
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: Annual Willicather Spring Conference. And then Scott continues, as you

550
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: will see you are not the first to be misled.

551
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: Attempts are ongoing to rebut the references to the Errant

552
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: Roseboro anecdote where it has appeared, including an Oxford, Cambridge

553
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: American Literature teacher's Guide. If you have any questions or

554
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: additional information, please do not hesitate to ask regards Scott So.

555
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: Scott is the author of this paper. Thank you so

556
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: much Scott for sending this. This is not information that

557
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: existed when we did the episode, because we recorded it

558
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: on something like May fifteenth, and I did want to clarify.

559
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if the reference to it being removed

560
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: from Wikipedia entries is a suggestion that we might have

561
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: used those entries to research the show. We do not

562
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: research the show using Wikipedia. I was very curious, though

563
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: I looked back at my resources that were part of

564
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: the episode, and I did not go through all of them,

565
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: but this little anecdote was in three papers by two

566
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: different authors. At least that's where I stopped looking. And

567
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: then I looked at the Wikipedia edit history, and it

568
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: appears that Wikipedia's original source for this information is two

569
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: of the papers that were part of my research. So

570
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: like Wikipedia and I used the same resources for this.

571
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: If this paper had happened, or if this episode had

572
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: happened two months later, this might have been something I

573
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: would have found and I could have said, this is

574
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: a thing that has been repeated so many times and

575
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: we've just learned that it's wrong. But time did not

576
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: align for that to happen. No, it happens so often

577
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: the second we publish a thing, the universe goes, hey,

578
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: we're going to do something here that's going to make this,

579
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: by the way, item you wished you had done two

580
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: months later, it just happens. Yeah, I know, you didn't

581
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: expect new information about someone when one of the things

582
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: that we talked about is there being only one biography

583
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: that was six hundred or something pages long, and yeah,

584
00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: doesn't exist in many collections. So anyway, thank you again,

585
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 1: and Scott for sending this. We do not often get

586
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: emails from folks about the research that they have done

587
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: that has related to the show, but when it does happen,

588
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: I'm always appreciative, also appreciative to have something corrected that

589
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 1: you know we would have avoided had it been possible, hopefully,

590
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: if you would like to send us a note or

591
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: at History Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com, and if you

592
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: want to see the source lists for all of our episodes,

593
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 1: including the source list of the Villa Roseboro episode that

594
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: is at our website which is missed Inhistory dot com.

595
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: You can also subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio

596
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: app or anywhere else that you'd like to get your podcasts.

597
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio.

598
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

599
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite show. Us