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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is

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Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier,

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Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a breaking Points Premium

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Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

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Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and

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Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Counterpoints Friday. Although it's Wednesday here in the studio

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Speaker 1: and right now, nothing too hard about it, right and

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Speaker 1: Ryan is nothing if not a man of the people,

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Speaker 1: so he wants to say, we're listening and intro music.

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Speaker 1: We're altering to suggestions. We agree, we think intro music

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Speaker 1: is super fun and if you have suggestions, let us know. Right,

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Speaker 1: we got it. We got we gotta be number of

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Speaker 1: number of pieces advice and one of the most useful

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Speaker 1: ones was, hey, how about some intro music. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you have anything, recommend it to us. You can

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Speaker 1: tweet it at us, so you can put it in

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Speaker 1: the comments. I had suggested, like I said, a little

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Speaker 1: piece of Tweezer reprised might be like the upbeat tempo

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Speaker 1: to it. He sent in a text with Soccer and Crystal.

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Speaker 1: He was sending all of these fish videos. Nobody responded,

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Speaker 1: so we might just go with those because no objections. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right, we didn't object All right, that's not how

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Speaker 1: it works anyway. So last night the big news, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna get to a lot of political news,

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Speaker 1: a little cultural news, you could call it. I think

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Speaker 1: last night, Aaron Judge, let's put this up. Sixty two

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Speaker 1: Judge's the American League single season hold run leader. The

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Speaker 1: King case closed. So that's Aaron Judge hitting his sixty

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Speaker 1: second home run of the season. Everybody keeps calling it

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Speaker 1: the American League record. Why do they keep calling it

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Speaker 1: it's a major league record? Well, there's some American League chauvinism.

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Speaker 1: Well where is it historically? Hysterically? Okay, the American League

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Speaker 1: has been around a little bit longer, sort of the

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Speaker 1: National League started as started as a different league and

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Speaker 1: then evolved into the National League. Anyway, what I think

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Speaker 1: is interesting about this, though, is that the lack of

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Speaker 1: kind of attention that mass culture is paying to it. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: like millions of people care about this, but if you

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Speaker 1: compare it, certainly to say, when in nineteen sixty one,

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Speaker 1: Mickey Mantelin Roger Marris were both chasing Babe Ruth's nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty seven record and he just beat by the way

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Speaker 1: that that beats Marris's record, and that beats Maris's record

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Speaker 1: by one, even with a couple of games left to play,

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Speaker 1: which he may or may not play, We'll see, the

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Speaker 1: entire nation was like transfixed by the Marison mantle, you know,

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Speaker 1: rivalry and whether or not they were going to catch

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Speaker 1: the Babe or not. Like that. It was, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was what people were talking about in that in

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Speaker 1: that fall at summer and fall of nineteen sixty one,

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Speaker 1: I've been told was not there. And even with Barry

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Speaker 1: Bonds when I remember during the steroid era, like even

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Speaker 1: if you weren't like a baseball fan, you weren't following it,

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Speaker 1: you were still being made aware of it because there

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Speaker 1: was still enough of a monoculture that it was. It

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Speaker 1: was able by osmosis just to filter into people's lives.

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Speaker 1: I bet a decent number of our viewers, like didn't

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Speaker 1: even know this is happening. Yeah, I mean I pretty

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Speaker 1: much tune out of the baseball season at this point

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Speaker 1: if the Brewers aren't doing well, because I'm not as

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Speaker 1: hard to be pretty much tune out of faithball, right.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, so judge a hit number sixty off

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Speaker 1: the Brewers that was to ty Ruth's record, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: at that point of course I'm tuned out. But I

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Speaker 1: think what you're saying is so important because the next

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Speaker 1: video you wanted to show is a video that's going

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Speaker 1: to go viral and fun one. Right, But that's the thing,

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Speaker 1: right we used to have of this check it out sack. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, for people who are listening, Ryan, describe what

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Speaker 1: just happened. So there's a guy about what ten ten

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Speaker 1: feet or maybe ten yards off to the left of

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Speaker 1: where the ball is heading, and I think he actually

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Speaker 1: makes the smart play. He just dives, not head first,

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Speaker 1: he jumps feet first into the bullpen on the off

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Speaker 1: chance that one of these fans is going to drop

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Speaker 1: the ball, and that it'll then ricochet into the bullpen

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Speaker 1: and then he'll have the and then he'll have this

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Speaker 1: ball on A guy caught it, he had a glove.

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Speaker 1: He was immediately escorted out by security. There were reports,

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Speaker 1: I think Barstool Sports was saying he's already gotten offers

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Speaker 1: up to two million dollars for this ball. So he

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Speaker 1: was immediately escorted out so that he could so that

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Speaker 1: the ball could be authenticated, and so everybody knows, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is the ball. Well, so what I was going

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Speaker 1: to say, actually is that video is an interesting glimpse

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Speaker 1: at this question of whether we still have a monoculture

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Speaker 1: because just about everybody follows barstool Sports or their stuff

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Speaker 1: goes so viral that they see barstool right, so that'll

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Speaker 1: be the thing we remember, right exactly. So the record itself,

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Speaker 1: we don't share these cultural touchstones in the same way

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Speaker 1: that we used to because we have more options. Everyone

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to be you know, if your dad has

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Speaker 1: the TV and he's watching baseball that night, you can

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Speaker 1: go over with an iPad and watch Netflix. You can

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Speaker 1: go watch the Real Housewives, you can do whatever you want.

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Speaker 1: It's different now than it used to be we don't

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Speaker 1: share these cultural touchdowns in the same way. That has

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Speaker 1: advantages and it has disadvantages. But there is still I

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Speaker 1: think a legitimate question as to whether with these viral

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Speaker 1: videos and these viral Instagram accounts, whether it's barstool or

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Speaker 1: like f Jerry or fat Jewish, whatever it is, those

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Speaker 1: are the last remnants of monoculture, but still some form

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Speaker 1: of monoculture, although it's hard to make that case because

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Speaker 1: you know, it's really an age at that point. It's

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Speaker 1: we're divided by age, which actually reminds me of the

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Speaker 1: big monocultural event earlier this week. Did you follow the

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Speaker 1: dream face reveal? No? There you go? No? So I

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Speaker 1: have young kids, yes, between six and twelve, and all

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Speaker 1: of them were interested in what became a major cultural

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Speaker 1: event that Emily missed. This twenty three year old kid

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Speaker 1: who is a big Minecraft streamer. Oh oh, I did

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Speaker 1: see this, and he's I's been streaming for years, never

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Speaker 1: showed his face. He finally decides he's going to show

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Speaker 1: his face. Do people like the face? Put the mask

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Speaker 1: back on? Was trending, as was something like he's so ugly,

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Speaker 1: really brutal. Ooh really brutal. I thought he was. I

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Speaker 1: thought he was fine looking. By looking kid, things are

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Speaker 1: the world is not a nice place, the corl World world. Well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of that, on that note, we're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about the midterms now, speaking of how cruel of

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Speaker 1: a world it actually is. But we're doing a little

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Speaker 1: bit of an update that I think is again quite

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Speaker 1: interesting because some of these races that we were talking

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Speaker 1: about in the summer are shifting. Cook Political Report has

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Speaker 1: moved Pennsylvania from lean DEM to a toss up, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of a big deal in Beltway circles Whenever

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Speaker 1: Cook Political Report shifts because it can also be a

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Speaker 1: sign of where money might be shifting. So the race

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Speaker 1: between John Fetterman and doctor Oz, I can't believe I

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Speaker 1: just said John Federan and doctor Oz the two candidates

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Speaker 1: doctor Oz. But anyway, that that is really narrowing. And

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Speaker 1: Nate Cohne has said quote on average Republicans have gained

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Speaker 1: we can get up here. Yeah, we've got this. That's

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Speaker 1: Cook Political Report. You can see on the screen. This

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Speaker 1: is a quote from Nate Cone at the Upshot for

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Speaker 1: the New York Times on average, Republicans have gained three

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Speaker 1: points across nineteen labor day polls of the key Senate

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Speaker 1: battle ground states. Cone points specifically to Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, where

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Speaker 1: Ron Johnson is up against Mandela Barnes, and then Nevada,

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Speaker 1: which is a race you've been tapping into a little

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Speaker 1: bit too Ryan, with Catherine Cortez Massa getting in a

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Speaker 1: really close race that it looks like actually she might

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Speaker 1: lose to Adam Laxalt, right, And we talked about this

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Speaker 1: a little last last week. Laxalt is a standard bog

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Speaker 1: Republican that is unobjectionable, doesn't scare away the suburban voters

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Speaker 1: in the same way that you know, some of the

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Speaker 1: other jade Vans or Blake Masters or somebody like or

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Speaker 1: Trump or somebody like that might and at Cortes Masso

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Speaker 1: fine popular, same kind of bog standard democrat. Nevada has

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Speaker 1: been absolutely annihilated by COVID. You know, the lockdowns, the

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Speaker 1: economic shutdown was you know, particularly brutal for the entertainment

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Speaker 1: industry and the travel industry, and so you know, when

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Speaker 1: you have casinos that are just empty for a year plus,

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Speaker 1: you know you're going to have a lot of people angry,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to and they're going to take it

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Speaker 1: out on the party in power. Well, how is Catherine

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Speaker 1: gort has master handling that? Because Democrats, I think the

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Speaker 1: their COVID messaging, you've seen a shift in it, I think,

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Speaker 1: very intentionally, with Joe Biden saying the pandemic is over

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Speaker 1: and then actually getting hit from the left for saying

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Speaker 1: the pandemic is over and having to make excuses for it.

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Speaker 1: But Democrats are intentionally, i think, shifting their messaging because

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Speaker 1: they realize the public is genuinely ready for And she's

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Speaker 1: certainly been among the more moderate on this because she wrecked.

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Speaker 1: She's on the ground. She recognizes how important this is,

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Speaker 1: you know, to her, you know, to the economy of

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Speaker 1: the state that she represents. But because of our kind

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Speaker 1: of partisan divide and the part is balance that all

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Speaker 1: of this is seen through. If you're a Democrat, you

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Speaker 1: get branded no matter what. If you're a Republican, no

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Speaker 1: matter what you're saying, you're going to get branded by

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Speaker 1: whatever the Republican approach to this is. So there's only

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Speaker 1: so much that she can do to kind to kind

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Speaker 1: of separate herself from the national party. At this point.

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Speaker 1: I think she and Democrats are just hoping that abortion

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Speaker 1: that Dobbs and Robie Wade is going to be enough

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Speaker 1: to push her over the top. But in Nevada it

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Speaker 1: might not register in the same way it does around

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Speaker 1: the rest of the country. Right. But then another factor,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned and alluded to, is in some of

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Speaker 1: these races where you have a JD. Vans Er, a

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Speaker 1: Blake Masters or doctor Oz who I think it's a

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Speaker 1: kind of an open question ast to whether he's a

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Speaker 1: net benefit or a net loss in suburbs. Someone who's

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Speaker 1: been popular in homes across the country was actually sort

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Speaker 1: of hand selected for daytime television by Oprah herself, So

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Speaker 1: you know, it's an open question, I think to that extent.

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Speaker 1: But he's been closing in on Fetterman. Fetterman has not

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Speaker 1: been himself clearly since he suffered that stroke back in May,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's been really difficult for him post

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Speaker 1: after that happened, and as his health is still you

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Speaker 1: can see kind of faltering. He's not the same guy.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to make some of those punches land the

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Speaker 1: same way that he's trying to really go on offense

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Speaker 1: against Oz. But I'm not sure it's it's easy when

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Speaker 1: you can't have these videos of you being sort of

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Speaker 1: out on the trail and in interviews being as you

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Speaker 1: need to be in a situation like his, really having

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Speaker 1: the wind at your back and energetic and you know,

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Speaker 1: just going in for it. And that's tough in a

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Speaker 1: situation like Vetterman's. Yeah, in the new story, and I

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Speaker 1: think we could put this up with Jezebel reported there's

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Speaker 1: a cliche in uh in American politics that a politician

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Speaker 1: will say, they're accusing me every of everything, including like

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Speaker 1: hating puppies. Raphael Warnock even ran a really great ad

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Speaker 1: where he was saying, look they they're they're accusing me

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Speaker 1: of everything, including hating puppies, and look, I love puppies.

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Speaker 1: And he picks up a puppy and then there was

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Speaker 1: a scandal that it wasn't actually his puppy, which is

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Speaker 1: a boldface live. But the scandal with doctor ozz he

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Speaker 1: would have killed that puppy, so he would have experiment,

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Speaker 1: would experiment and then killed it. Now, he personally apparently

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Speaker 1: was not doing the actual executions of these puppies, right,

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Speaker 1: but he was overseeing and responsible for animal experiments that

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Speaker 1: killed more than three hundred puppies and which appeared to

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Speaker 1: be in violation of the Animal Warefair Welfare Act and

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Speaker 1: which Columbia paid a fine for in two thousand and four.

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Speaker 1: That stood stood by doctor Oz as a good doctor,

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Speaker 1: but I guess mistakes were made times three hundred and again, like,

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Speaker 1: this is all public, in the public domain, basically, and

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Speaker 1: it has been since for what twenty years basically at

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Speaker 1: this point, And so it feels like in October surprise

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Speaker 1: type situation where Jezebel you leak it to a liberal

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Speaker 1: outlet like Jezebel, some dumb group leaks to them, but

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Speaker 1: you don't really have to leak it because it's in

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Speaker 1: the public but you just say, hey, check this out.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen doctor Oz's puppy experiments. I don't know, Ryan,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that makes a dent in the race.

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Speaker 1: What about you? It's going to be I think it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a super close race. We'll see. Last

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Speaker 1: we skipped Wisconsin, your state, which I think, which feels

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Speaker 1: like it's slipping away from Democrats at this point. When

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Speaker 1: Mandela Barnes won the Democratic primary, polls had him up

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Speaker 1: by something like seven to ten against Ron Johnson, and

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking he needs a twelve to fifteen point lead,

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Speaker 1: who was six weeks left against Johnson to feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: with a the likely three to four point polling error

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Speaker 1: that we've seen so many cycles now in a row

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin in favor of the error, in favor of

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Speaker 1: Democrats Republicans doing better, but also Mandela Barnes. It's one

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Speaker 1: of the first successes of the left in electing kind

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Speaker 1: of quote unquote one of their own. But Barnes really

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Speaker 1: came from kind of the kind of cultural left and

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Speaker 1: kind of the activist left. And there was another candidate

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Speaker 1: in the race, Sky Tom Nelson, who's a county missioner.

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Speaker 1: I forget which county a Trump county in Wisconsin that

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Speaker 1: you would know of. He's a like a barnecrat who

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Speaker 1: kept winning a county executive as a lefty. He was

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Speaker 1: most famous for a paper plant shut down in the

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Speaker 1: district and he worked with the county and with the

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Speaker 1: union and reopened the plant as kind of a worker

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Speaker 1: run business. And I wrote a wrote a book about

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Speaker 1: this turnaround. Remained very popular in that area. If he

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Speaker 1: would I don't and I and I wonder how Ron

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Speaker 1: Johnson would be doing against him. He never really took

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Speaker 1: off from the primary, everybody lined up behind Mandela Barnes.

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Speaker 1: He kind of cruised. He's he's been he's been marked

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Speaker 1: as a rising star for for a long time. But

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Speaker 1: in order to win that kind of activist support over

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Speaker 1: the years, you know, he has said and done a

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Speaker 1: bunch of things that now Ron Johnson is uh is

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Speaker 1: hammering him over and it's and and the relent negative

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Speaker 1: advertising against him, seizing on defund the police, and all

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Speaker 1: this other stuff does seem to be dragging him down

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Speaker 1: in a way that it might not be able to

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Speaker 1: have affected somebody like Tom Nelson's like, look, I already

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Speaker 1: won all of these Trump voters by standing up for workers.

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Speaker 1: And some people might say that Republicans are having a

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Speaker 1: similar issue in the Wisconsin gubernatorial race, just from the

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Speaker 1: different side, somebody who's really in with the activist base

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Speaker 1: and the way it's not going to appeal to, Which

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Speaker 1: is the only shot that I think Barnes has that

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Speaker 1: Ron Johnson is such a weird bizarro figure. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: an important point that this is a state where the

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Speaker 1: polls have been pretty off in recent years. Ron Johnson

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Speaker 1: famously had sort of been left behind by Mitch McConnell

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Speaker 1: and has a chip on his shoulder because of that,

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Speaker 1: and Wisconsin polling has been you know, it's been a

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Speaker 1: question because of that for a long time, and you

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Speaker 1: know people are aware of it now. But Mantella Barnes.

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Speaker 1: My first thought when he won that race was about

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Speaker 1: all of the activist stuff, because when you're known as somebody,

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Speaker 1: especially when you went through the year twenty twenty as

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Speaker 1: somebody generally in the activist the left activist camp, I

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Speaker 1: was like, he's going to have all kinds of problems

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Speaker 1: when the money starts coming in in September and after

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Speaker 1: Labor Day. And that's exactly what happened, and that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing happen in all of these different races

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Speaker 1: when Republicans start putting money behind a candidate and have

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Speaker 1: the ability the opposition research. In some of these states,

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Speaker 1: they've had the wind at their back for the last month,

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Speaker 1: and with a month ago, it seems to be trending

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Speaker 1: in that direction going forward. Right, If I think five

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Speaker 1: point thirty eight has Johnson up by little lesson two,

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Speaker 1: but if your barns, you want to be up by

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Speaker 1: three or four more than I mean I would say

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Speaker 1: at this point, and you want to expand with momentum.

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Speaker 1: You want to expand that. You want to be up,

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Speaker 1: you know, eight nine going into election day to feel comfortable.

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Speaker 1: What was Biden up in Wisconsin? Like eight between eight

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Speaker 1: and seventeen differently different polls, and he won it by

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Speaker 1: you know, tens of thousands, or according to Trump, he

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Speaker 1: did not. Rub is wrong. Yes, In fact, all of

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Speaker 1: the courts looked at Trump's challenges to Wisconsin and rejected

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Speaker 1: them as without merit, including Lizzie Graham, who's like, you

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Speaker 1: say you won Wisconsin, Just give me a tiny bit

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Speaker 1: of evidence that I can point to, because I love

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Speaker 1: nothing more than defending you any nothing. Although Wisconsin is

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Speaker 1: a good example though with Zuckerberg, all of the Zuckerberg

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Speaker 1: when he's going into Democratic counties intentionally that said, which

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Speaker 1: is which is a different way. It's that's like organizing

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Speaker 1: the structures to your benefit. Although is Zuckerberg even a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: It depends on how you define democrats. He'd love just

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Speaker 1: like Ben Shapiro and all those guys like those are

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Speaker 1: the only people he hangs out with. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: especially they're like Zuckerberg wanted for Democrats, Like it's really

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Speaker 1: since when is Zuckerberg a Democrat? This is weird, But

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Speaker 1: he's like a libertarian, kind of curious right wing dude.

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Speaker 1: He's a surfer, is he. I can't see you don't

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Speaker 1: remember that. See this is the death of moniculture that

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Speaker 1: we started the show talking about. It was a super

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Speaker 1: viral picture of Mark Zuckerberg with all of the you remember,

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Speaker 1: I can't, yes, I can't. I just can't get the

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Speaker 1: picture of him in a truck in Iowa when he

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Speaker 1: was pretending he was going to run for president. He

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Speaker 1: went to a truck stop in Iowa. Yeah, that one's

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Speaker 1: burned into the brain. It's so teach me how to

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Speaker 1: AI this truck. Well before we run, we want to

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Speaker 1: play the clip of Christian Walker, who is one of

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Speaker 1: Herschel Walker's children. His son broke Here's something of a

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Speaker 1: conservative tech talk influencer. This was seen as kind of

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Speaker 1: a big October shake up in the Atlanta Senate race.

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Speaker 1: Here's the video from Christian. I stayed silent as the

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Speaker 1: atrocities committed against my mom were downplayed. I stayed silent

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Speaker 1: when it came out that my father, Herschel, walk around

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Speaker 1: all these random kids across the country, none of whom

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Speaker 1: he raised. And you know, my favorite is hue to

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Speaker 1: talk about is father absence surprise because it affected me.

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Speaker 1: That's why I talk about it all the time, because

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Speaker 1: it affected me. Family values people. He has four kids,

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Speaker 1: four different women. Wasn't in the house raising one of them.

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Speaker 1: He was out having sets with other women. Do you

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Speaker 1: care about family values? I was silent, live after lie

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Speaker 1: after life. The abortion car drops yesterday. It's literally his

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Speaker 1: handwriting in the car. They say they have receipts. Whatever

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Speaker 1: he gets on Twitter, he lies about it. Okay, I'm done. Done.

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Speaker 1: Everything has been a lie. So I think that was

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Speaker 1: actually prompted by the report that herschel Walker had paid

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Speaker 1: for a woman's abortion back in two thousand and nine.

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Speaker 1: But Ryan, the reason I think it's really worth talking

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Speaker 1: about this example is because I actually don't think this

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Speaker 1: changes the Senate race at all. I think it's sort

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Speaker 1: of baked into herschel Walker's character at this point in

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Speaker 1: a similar way really to Donald Trump that people knew

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Speaker 1: by the time the Access Hollywood tape came out, nobody

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Speaker 1: was surprised by what it revealed about Donald Trump's character.

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Speaker 1: And Dana Lash, who I know and I like, says

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Speaker 1: she quote, doesn't care if herschel Walker paid quote some

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Speaker 1: skank for an abortion quote I want control of the Senate.

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Speaker 1: That is truly insight into the mind of Republican voters

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Speaker 1: in Washington. People don't want to hear it, but especially

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Speaker 1: I'm not making a comparison between herschel w Tucker and

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Speaker 1: Roy Moore, but it was the same thing. You had

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Speaker 1: the Beltway media asking why are their poles still showing

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Speaker 1: fifty percent of Alabama's are going to vote for Roy

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Speaker 1: Moore And it comes down to abortion. It really, at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, it comes down to abortion.

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Speaker 1: If you are Raphael Warnock and you support abortion, people

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Speaker 1: are still going to be voting for hershel Walker because

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Speaker 1: that's that is that important of an issue if you're

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Speaker 1: a Republican voter. Dana also said, I don't care if

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Speaker 1: he paid to aboard a bunch of baby bald eagles.

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Speaker 1: I think something eagles, I think so, yeah, she went

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Speaker 1: the fear for the bald eagles. She's like, She's like,

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Speaker 1: I just want to win, winning as a virtue, which

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Speaker 1: then wouldn't you say things that are going to help

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Speaker 1: you win? Like that doesn't sound like I mean, she's

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Speaker 1: not running for office. She's not running for office, but

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Speaker 1: she's still anyway. She can do whatever she wants, and

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Speaker 1: I appreciate her being being honest about this. I do

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Speaker 1: think it's it's true that you know a lot of Democrats. Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: I was going to say that if the same thing

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Speaker 1: came out about Warnock, that a lot of Democrats would

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Speaker 1: still stick by him. But I think that that's it.

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Speaker 1: It's true. But there's enough on the margins that would

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Speaker 1: say this is this underminds what I knew about him,

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Speaker 1: and they would either stay home, or they'd vote third party,

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Speaker 1: or they would leave that leave that one empty thing.

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Speaker 1: Democrats that don't quite have as much kind of partisan

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Speaker 1: glue that holds them together at this point, because so

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Speaker 1: much of their coalition is new. Like these suburban voters

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Speaker 1: who were liberal Republicans up until you know they might

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Speaker 1: have voted for Mitt Romney, and so they don't They

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Speaker 1: don't have the kind of you know, Rider Die loyalty

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Speaker 1: that some of the Republican base might have. But on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, that that what's his name that you're

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned, the Alabama pedophile guy he lost, Like,

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Speaker 1: so there was a margin of Republicans who were. But

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Speaker 1: that's that's a good example because it's like Raphael Warnock

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Speaker 1: and this hypothetical, it cuts against the sort of consensus

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Speaker 1: narrative about his character. Right, So Raphael Warnock is not

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Speaker 1: a you know, a high flying x NFL superstar or

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Speaker 1: a reality television show host who was a tabloid fixture.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the same thing with Roy Moore,

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Speaker 1: completely cut against this character that he was running on

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Speaker 1: and that people felt they knew. And it would be

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Speaker 1: the same thing with Raffael Warnock, whereas with Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, maybe he they pretend to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, all about family values or character or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think anybody really believes that at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day. But if part of Walker's shtick

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Speaker 1: was that he was fallen in a sinner, but he's

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Speaker 1: now redeeming himself, this confirms that for him, he can

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Speaker 1: use it to say I made a mistake, made a mistake.

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Speaker 1: But what about having his very popular son, Christian Son

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Speaker 1: out there that's bad? Like yeah, because that's today, like

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Speaker 1: that he's saying, Like what he's saying is today Herschel

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Speaker 1: Walker is still a liar. That this whole myth that

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Speaker 1: he's trying to present to you of a man reformed

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Speaker 1: is a lie. And I'm telling you, as his son

427
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: that it's a lie, as a son who was who

428
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: tried to be supportive, who tried to like swallow so

429
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: much of this stuff. So that so you think that

430
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: could be a point or two. It depends on how

431
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 1: much people were actually buying what he was selling about

432
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 1: being reformed and being, you know, a sinner who has

433
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: found grace. And I think that's just a Republican and

434
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: I think that's a fair question. I also think in

435
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: the context of abortion politics, and there was this idea

436
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: Democrats were really believed after Kansas that this was going

437
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: to be what would help them get over the hump

438
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: in the midterm elections. And I think in some of

439
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 1: these states, especially somewhere like Georgia, the more you can

440
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: point to extremism and you can point to places, you know,

441
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,719
Speaker 1: in the same way that the Democrats can point to

442
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: places where Republicans and conservatives myself included, are legitimately in

443
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: the minority compared to public opinion. They can absolutely do

444
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: that on abortion, there's no question about it. But you

445
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: can do the same with Democrats and Carrie Lake went

446
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: super viral on the right this week for having an

447
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: answer to a reporter who asked her in Arizona, and

448
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: she said, I never hear you asking my opponent about

449
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: why they believe in essentially late term abortion. And that's

450
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: become I think a really big issue in some of

451
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: these races in some of these states. That's actually helping Republicans,

452
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 1: and I think that's where you know, with the herschel Walker,

453
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: it still comes down for voters. For Republican voters, that's

454
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: a key issue, and it's an important one, so important.

455
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: Like Dana Lash said that they don't care, people really

456
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: don't care. They don't have a lot of voices in

457
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: the media. You know, there aren't a lot of people

458
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 1: in the media who make that argument. But it is

459
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: a sincere argument that people make right. And ultimately, Dana

460
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: is it. I always thought it was locious last Lash.

461
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: Dane Lash is right in the sense that you're voting

462
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: for policy, right. You're not voting for a person. You're

463
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: voting for a person to an act policy. So if

464
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: you trust a person to an act policy that you want,

465
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: you you, I guess, shouldn't care if they like to

466
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: abort bald eagles or whatever. Well, and that's the Donald

467
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: Trump moment, right Like, if you think you're voting for

468
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: a person, how naive? Right Like, these are politicians and

469
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, no matter what a

470
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: good game they talk, they're politicians. And speaking of actually

471
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: people that I think public trust is maybe mixed on.

472
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: We have news on the Elon Musk Twitter front that's

473
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: actually very different. Musk is now offering the original price

474
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: of fifty four to twenty a share to by Twitter.

475
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: That was the original offer and it's now back to

476
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: that after he lost a series of pre trial rulings

477
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: that didn't totally work out in his way as he

478
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: attempted to back out of the offer he had made

479
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: fifty four to twenty to buy Twitter. Yeah, and the

480
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: problem for Elon Musk is that we are not yet

481
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: a complete banana republic when it comes to our capital

482
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: markets like this Delaware court is known as being quite

483
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: serious that if you have if you've made a deal,

484
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: if you've put it in paper, if you have a contract,

485
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: if you've agreed to close on a certain day, this

486
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: is America, this is global capitalism. It depends on you

487
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: following through on that these these contracts matter. This is

488
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: This is not Azerbaijan where you can pay somebody off

489
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: and just not show up for the closing and be

490
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: done with it, because that ruptures and fundamentally undermines the

491
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 1: system of global capitalism that everybody you know, like Elon

492
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: Musk uses to buttress their wealth. And so he might

493
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: have thought that he could say, hey, you know what,

494
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 1: actually there's all this fraud with all of these bots,

495
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: and I don't actually like Twitter anymore, and that he

496
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: could then that he could just move on just like

497
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, post his way through it, like he does

498
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: with so many other controversies, and they're like, no, no, no, no, no,

499
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: you signed the document here you and you even waived

500
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: like all of this stuff, so stop and so, and

501
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: the judge you know, wanted to move very quickly because

502
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: we were talking about forty four billion dollars on the

503
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: table here, and like you said, it has not been

504
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: going well for him. And so then yesterday he sends

505
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: a letter and says, okay, you know what, actually I

506
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: will buy it. And Twitter's response has been okay, write

507
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: the check and we'll see. But they're not going to

508
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: drop the case until he writes the check until this

509
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: is done? Does he have other options to back out? Sure,

510
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: he can continue to back out and try to fight

511
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: the trial, which is I think starts October seventeenth. But

512
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: he's getting hammered so far in all the pre trial stuff.

513
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: But he yeah. I meant like, are there any other

514
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: avenues besides this one? Because on this, on this front,

515
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: it seems like actually, what's happening is now is that

516
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: it is going to happen because he's come out and

517
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: said we like we just said, he's saying fifty four

518
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: to twenty is share, let's do it. The other option

519
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 1: for when when these cases arise is a settlement that

520
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: you say, look, I blew it. How much do I

521
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: have to give you to drop this case because like

522
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 1: I don't have Let's say let's say he didn't have

523
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: forty four billion dollars and he thought he could get together.

524
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: He didn't. You know that happens in business. You make

525
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: a you get a closing day, the you know, the

526
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: financing doesn't come in, then you owe them money. Might

527
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: he might owe him X shares of Tesla. He might

528
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: owe them you know, three billion dollars or whatever whatever whatever.

529
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: Either a judge would a sign or Twitter would agree

530
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: to so that would be another option. But it seems

531
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: like he's saying at this point, let's let's let's go

532
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: for it. So what where have you been on this

533
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: Musk buying Twitter? You think you hopeful that it actually happens,

534
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: You think it can't get worse, it might get better.

535
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: What's where are you on? I think Twitter is a

536
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: scourge on American society, American politics, and American culture. And

537
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: I don't think any person who opposes big tech should

538
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: really be cheering on what Elon Musk wants to do

539
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: with Twitter, which is make it more popular and make

540
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: it good again. I agree. I think there's a lot

541
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: that can be done to make Twitter a better experience

542
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: for the users. I think Elan Musk is totally correct

543
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: about that. I don't think making Twitter better a better

544
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: experience that making more people want to use Twitter, which

545
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: is something that Elon Musk has explicitly said is his goal.

546
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: A better health side. Twitter is one of yeah right.

547
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: Twitter is one of the best examples of how social

548
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: media is run like a slot machine. It is, you know,

549
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: esthetically it works that way, it like. It is one

550
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: of the best examples of exactly what they're doing to

551
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: our brains. And so I have no interest in anybody

552
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: reforming shut it down. Yeah, I would love that buy it,

553
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: shut it down, a little catch and kill action there.

554
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: But that said, I think a freer Twitter is a

555
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: better Twitter. But at the end of the day, it's

556
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: still Twitter. And I think if he if he does

557
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: buy it. I've talked about this before. The major conflict

558
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: of interest he has is that he is heavily leveraged

559
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: by China, the Chinese Communist Party, because of the materials

560
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: he needs. And this is not a judgment of him,

561
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: This is just a fact. Like a huge materials and

562
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: financing labor force, TESLA is heavily dependent on its relationship

563
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: with China, which with the government, with the government, which

564
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: the government could turn the screws on at any moment.

565
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: The government also has a famous lack of appreciation for

566
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 1: the freedom of speech or dissent, and so it's it

567
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: is going to want to put pressure on him to

568
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: you know, a suppressed ascent wherever wherever it's found among

569
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: Chinese dissidents, whether it's Hong Kong, in the United States, Canada,

570
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: wherever anybody is posting things critical of them. They're going

571
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: to want to try to find ways to kind of

572
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: crack down on that. And the you know, the bunch

573
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: of Saudi engineers were Saudi Twitter engineers were recently on

574
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: trial for having been bribed by the Saudi government. Yes,

575
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: we've seen how this can happen. We've seen that there

576
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: are already mechanisms that can that are in place, that

577
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: can just buttons that can be pushed. So at minimum,

578
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: I think he needs end to end encryption and a

579
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,239
Speaker 1: security situation by which China can come to elin US

580
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: can say I need information on this account, and Muscle

581
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: would have to say to them, I can't give it

582
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: to you. Not that I won't give it to you,

583
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: but I can't. I physically do not have access like

584
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: the way that signal works, like the physically cannot technically

585
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: cannot do the thing that you're asking because that kind

586
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: of pressure is just too much for any person. It

587
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: would be too heroic to ask somebody to say, to

588
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: protect a dissonent that they don't know up against their

589
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: entire business, their entire company, future, everything, right, we need

590
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: to give that for security purposes, we need to see

591
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: the direct messages that this dissident has been sending right,

592
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: and you know, no, I can't. We don't have that capacity, right.

593
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: It's essential to Chinese national security. We really need access

594
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: to this. No, I think that's what I agree with you.

595
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: I'd love to, I'd love to share the information with you.

596
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just can't. The text messages that came

597
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: out as part of this pre trial process were really interesting,

598
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: and I think I think overall flattering to Elon Musk.

599
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: I don't think they showed him in a bad light

600
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: at all. I think they actually showed him as somebody

601
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: who was very sincerely and honestly trying to have conversations

602
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: about what makes a better Twitter and what makes social

603
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: media better in general. He was talking about things like

604
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: signal and how Twitter could be run in a kind

605
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: of Signal esque way. There were some hilarious exchanges with

606
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: Gail King, although I shouldn't say exchanges because it was

607
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: mostly just Gail King begging Elon Musk to give her

608
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: an interview. Jake Sherman popped up in there, astar, I

609
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, no, I but what were you doing? Man?

610
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: I never texted him, It didn't even occur to me. Well, no,

611
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: I think the text message is actually to everything you

612
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: just said. Ryan there, listen. It's like what we talked

613
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: about in the last block, like, if you're putting your

614
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: trust in public figures people who are very powerful, you're

615
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: probably putting your trust in the wrong place because power corrupts,

616
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: and that's very obvious. You don't need to read Machiavelli

617
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: to know that. But all that is to say, I

618
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: think there are a lot of positives from Elon Musk.

619
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of uh, you know,

620
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 1: clearly negative red flags. So at the end of the day,

621
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,239
Speaker 1: I don't know how it shakes out. My position is

622
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: just Twitter is terrible and it should go away. I

623
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: the one the one thing that upped my appreciation for

624
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: Musk and those text messages was his dismissal of the

625
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: use of blockchain for Twitter that Sam Bankman Freed was

626
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: proposing to him. He's like, he's like, really, bank this

627
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: guy's got three billion dollars liquid. Okay, I guess I'll

628
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: talk to him, but please don't make me have an

629
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: argument about blockchain with him. He's just most is fine

630
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: with blockchain, but he's like, it's it's not appropriate for this.

631
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm not gonna like sit at the other

632
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: side of the bar and listen to Sam Bankman Freeze

633
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: extol the virgins of block I feel seen finally, Yes,

634
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: in Musk I finally feel seen. It is one good idea.

635
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: I thought. A good idea he had in there was

636
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: letting people DM all of their followers for a fee.

637
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: And he's like, Twitter will make a bunch of money.

638
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: The user will love it and they won't abuse it

639
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: because if you OVERDM your followers, they'll just all unfollow you. No.

640
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: I think more small cost barriers on social media in

641
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 1: general are a good thing that make people less reliant

642
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,919
Speaker 1: on Google Ads and whatever else, right, which then makes

643
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: the less important to jack up the algorithm to just

644
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: create more toxicity to keep people more engaged. Let's move on.

645
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 1: It's actually believe it or not. And I was pretty

646
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: surprised by this. The five year anniversary of the beginning

647
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: of the me too movement, which started in early October

648
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen, when The New York Times dropped its

649
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: report its investigation into the allegations against Harvey Weinstein and

650
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: that then launched the entire movement. It became a snowball

651
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 1: careening down the hill and really, my opinion, got completely

652
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: out of control, but leaves a very interesting legacy behind

653
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: The New York Times. We have this element to put

654
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: up on the screen, did a very long reflective piece

655
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: on it by reporters who wrote some of that excellent

656
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: journalism about Harvey Weinstein. The Harvey Weinstein story was a

657
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: story of a lot of me too, Ryan, which was

658
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: also crucially a media story. It was about how he

659
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 1: had bought off and charmed the media into silencing these

660
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: stories for years. Bullied, bullying too. Yeah. Absolutely, it wasn't

661
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: like total complicity from the media. There was some of

662
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: that if you look at what happened at NBC according

663
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: to Ronan Farrell's reporting. But he was like completely bullying people.

664
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 1: There's a story someone wrote about it in the Cut.

665
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: I forget who wrote about in the Cut. It was

666
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: a great story about how at a party in the

667
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: nineties or in the early aughts, Harvey Weinstein took somebody's

668
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: camera when they photographed him having a meltdown on a

669
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: sidewalk outside of a book party, and I think it

670
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: was Rebecca Tracer Rebca Traycer wrote about this and the

671
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: photo never got published. But it's out there somewhere, you know, presumably.

672
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: So all that is to say, Ryan, it seemed to

673
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: go off the reels in that January with the Azason

674
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: Sorry story. That was a really big turning point in

675
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: the Me Too movement. I think everybody was really early too. Yeah,

676
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: that was a couple of months in a couple months in, Yeah,

677
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: a few months, and but a lot of heads had

678
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: rolled by that time, and some for good reason. But

679
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: it was a frenzy. I have never seen anything like

680
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: it before, and I'm curious for what your take was

681
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: on it. I think there's a lot of good especially

682
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: in the early days that came to the Meet Too movement,

683
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot of uh necessary corrections that were happening.

684
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: But at the same time, but by the time you know,

685
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: the Diseason sorry story rolls around, it was like really

686
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: low level gossip was getting traded as much trafficked is

687
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 1: like much more serious. And that as though it deserved

688
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: a place in this pantheon of great meats too reporting,

689
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: it didn't deserve to even see the light of day.

690
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: The yeah, the azi'son sorry moment was an interesting one

691
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: because it also it was reported by if I remembering

692
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: the name. It was babe doty. Babe dot net. No,

693
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: we had heard of babe dot net before, nor since

694
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: it's not around anymore. But I used to regularly check

695
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: babe dot net. You were a babe dot net hipster. No. No,

696
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: but after I became aware of the existence of babe

697
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: dot net. They bragged in a piece after the A

698
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: Z story dropped, they bragged in a piece about how

699
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: they were editing it at brunch. They were editing. They

700
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: had like a mimosa in one hand and their laptop

701
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: and the other and they were editing the story about

702
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: accusing a man of sexual assault, which is what was

703
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: in the Asason story start and sorry, sorry story they

704
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: never really Yeah, they did, well, I mean it says

705
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: sexual assault in the story, and so it just didn't

706
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: put anything in there that would back that up. Well,

707
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: that's the thing, right, and so like powerful people, powerful

708
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 1: men need to be held to account. There's no question

709
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: about that, and journalists are the ones who should do it.

710
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: But the standard for what became publishable allegations I think lowered.

711
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: And then when that happened, people realized, I mean, some

712
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: of the allegations that came out against Brett Kavanaugh and

713
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: the New Yorker that Michael Avenatti was trafficking in There

714
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: was no proof the Julie Sweatnick stuff. You had Julie

715
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: sweatn nex word and no other proof than that that

716
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: Brett NBC. I think, yeah, that interview live on not live,

717
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: but taped on on NBC, and that was that was

718
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 1: to me, even that was a more seminal moment than

719
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: the Zi's I'm sorry, uh divide even because it was like,

720
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: oh they just because it her story just literally did

721
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: that upright, Like, Okay, what's your birthday? You're saying you

722
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: were at this senior week down in Ocean City. You

723
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: would have been like twenty three or something like whatever.

724
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: You can look up the numb It just didn't square

725
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: like the the basic facts in the same way that

726
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: the University of Virginia want a story that that Rolling

727
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: Stone wrote about the basic facts. You're like, okay, this

728
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: this is all awful, But then you're like, what was there?

729
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: Was there a party this night? And then these are

730
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: these are like basic facts that you can ascertain turned

731
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: out turns out there wasn't. Now I think that and

732
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: so the Time story I think is worth reading and

733
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: there was another one. I maybe it was unfortunate, I

734
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: forget where that that that asked the question of whether

735
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: whether or not these the kind of cancelations or the

736
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: or the consequences of the punishments that have been doled

737
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: out to so many as a result of Me too

738
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: were sticking because there's a sense among a lot of

739
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: people that they're not that that you face, you know,

740
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: you know, twenty minutes of kind of or you get

741
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: your fifteen minutes of infamy and then you recover, and

742
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: people point to Louis c K and others. This this

743
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: piece went through and the Times mentions it as well,

744
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: these on a case by case basis. Actually, you know,

745
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: Louis c. K was a massively dominant figure in our

746
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: pop culture. Now he's just kind of doing direct consumer stuff. Yeah,

747
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 1: he want to successful. He won an award an Emmy recently,

748
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: but you know that that doesn't that's that's nowhere near

749
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: where he was. As as the Times or other another

750
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: point out, he's not directing films, he's not like, he's

751
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: not where he was. And so so I think that

752
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: people who are huge fans of me to underestimate some

753
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: of its some of its impact. Now, I think like

754
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: the the goal of the movement, to to create a

755
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: world where you know, women can walk around freely in

756
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: society without fear of being harassed, or not without fear,

757
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: but with less of a chance of being harassed, and

758
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: particularly without being assaulted, you know, required a a radical

759
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: kind of shake up. Like I don't I don't think

760
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: there was any way that you were going to go

761
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: from where we were to a place where of of

762
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: of more gender equity without without a massive kind of

763
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: shakeup of society. And so when you're going to do that,

764
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna you know, you're going you know, people are

765
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: going to get picked up unfairly along the way. Uh,

766
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: you know, you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs,

767
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: would be and some and some of the innocent people

768
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: caught up are the eggs that were probably broken to

769
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: make to make that omelet. That's and again, none of

770
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: that is a judgment. That's just the kind of observation

771
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: of the way that the phenomenon kind of had to unfold.

772
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: If you're going to really strike back against it, now,

773
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: if you go too far and break too many, too

774
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: many innocent eggs, then you're going to produce your own backlash,

775
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: and you're going to be right back where you started

776
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 1: to be at the beginning. One thing that I've thought

777
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: about a lot during Me Too is how women's mass

778
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: participation in the workforce, and especially in jobs that are

779
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: really similar to men right, so like to participate in

780
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: the workforce right now, it's not like, for the most part,

781
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: you don't have to be doing manual labor, and there

782
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: are jobs that men and women can do with the

783
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: same ease that are just you know, at cubicle jobs,

784
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 1: whatever it is, a job like this, for instance. You know,

785
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: it's women are mass participating in the workforce in a

786
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 1: way that didn't really start happening until what the last

787
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: like roughly half century, right after women were going to

788
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: college in larger numbers. And listen, I'm glad. I think

789
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: that's great, I'm here. But I also think we didn't

790
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: iron out. We thought things were going much more smoothly,

791
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: or we had expectations that things had gone much more smoothly.

792
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: And Me Too really gave women an opportunity to say, actually, no,

793
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: when I am just trying to do my job and

794
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 1: when I am trying to participate in my job, for instance,

795
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: by going to a happy hour so I don't miss out.

796
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: Then yeah, it's a problem. It's a problem if my

797
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: boss wants to take me to my older married male

798
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: boss wants to take me to dinner at a restaurant

799
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: alone to talk about my future and do X, Y

800
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: and Z. Yeah, like that stuff is problematic, And I

801
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: think it was important to, you know, as they say,

802
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: have that conversation. All that is to say, though there

803
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: were this was already happening on college campuses with during

804
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: the Obama administration, the terrible Title nine reforms that the

805
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: Obama administration had done, which thrust college campuses and I

806
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: know because I was on one at the time into

807
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: chaos and it made a lot of men feel like

808
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: we were talking about last week, I did a monologue

809
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: on this a lot of men, you know over it

810
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: was like fifty something percent of single men are too

811
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 1: afraid of being perceived as creepy to talk to women.

812
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: And that I think I said last week that in

813
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: some ways that was irrational. At what I meant by

814
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 1: that is like women actually do want to be talked to,

815
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: but it's not that sort of level of fear post

816
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: me to. I don't know that it is entirely irrational,

817
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: because there were a lot of instances that I think

818
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: kind of had a chilling effect on sexual politics in

819
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 1: this country. And I mean, I don't know, I don't

820
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: know where it goes from here. COVID changed everything in ways,

821
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: everything about the workplace, everything about dating, and so we're

822
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: kind of in a totally different direction now anyway. Yeah,

823
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: And I don't know if we'll find a balance, because

824
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: it's hard to know it, or whether the pendulum just

825
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: keeps swinging back and forth. But I think you're right

826
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: to identify the female surge into the into the workforce,

827
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: and particularly women have been graduating from college and from

828
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: graduate schools at at higher rates and also because of

829
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: the way that the patriarchy you could call it, has

830
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: allowed men to to enjoy kind of like high level

831
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: jobs while women have been forced, you know, pre prior

832
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: to this into kind of lower level organizational positions. Women

833
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: came out of the their with their with higher graduation

834
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: rates and both undergrad and grad but also with better

835
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: organizational skills because of the kind of cultural the cultural

836
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: window that we had given to men to just let

837
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: women do things for them, and so they're coming into

838
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: the workforce oftentimes just better equipped to do the work.

839
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: And I think sexual harassment and in some cases sexual

840
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: violence became a way to try to enforce, reinforce, reproduce

841
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: that kind of male dominance that men felt threatened by. Now,

842
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: I don't think they were doing that consciously necessarily, though

843
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: some might have been. It's interesting in the era of

844
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 1: the sort of transconversation about Title nine that the right

845
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: is reflexively sort of defensive of Title nine now, But

846
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: the conversation of about Title nine up until about twenty

847
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty sixteen actually was basically that titlemind had

848
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: cost men some opportunities in sports, and whether or not

849
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: you think Title nine was a net benefit or negative,

850
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: whatever it is, that was a huge part of the conversation.

851
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: And it's an example of how women also have been

852
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: set up for success in ways that recently we talked

853
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: about this, We talked about Richard Reeves Stagger and Crystal

854
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: had him on the show. Actually, like men are are

855
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: struggling in the society in some ways because as a correction,

856
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: we redesigned our education system and we redesigned society in

857
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: ways that would lift women. But what we didn't see

858
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 1: happening is that it would be at the expensive men

859
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 1: and at the expensive men. In some ways that's also

860
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: the expensive women. You can't have one side sort of

861
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: fall and the other stay. It's it hurts everyone at

862
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: the same time. And I really do feel like, you know,

863
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 1: some of those changes were probably at the cost of men,

864
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: which is ultimately at the cost of women too. And

865
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: so a story that we did want to get to

866
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: today is from the American Prospect. Put that element up

867
00:46:53,440 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 1: there that redeem my classes, redefining says that you're actually

868
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: wrong about both. It's reclaiming Okay, you got it in

869
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: the third try so reclaiming the deep state. This is

870
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: a story about OIRA, which is an office that was

871
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: created to try to kind of coordinate between different agencies

872
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: as they're producing regulations. Ended up becoming one of the

873
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: most powerful executive agencies that nobody has heard of, and

874
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties and then also as the Prospect

875
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: Rights during the Obama years, it was used actively to

876
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: thwart the regulatory apparatus to slow down regulation under Biden

877
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: and actually significantly under the influence of Elizabeth Warren. As

878
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: the story, kind of the undertone of the Prospect story

879
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: makes clear because these are all kind of warren people

880
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: who are making for the most part, that are making

881
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: these moves. And her her philosophy has always been personnelis policy,

882
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: and she's trying to get her people into the to

883
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: the particular positions so that they can then enact the

884
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: policies that she's for. She has always cared far more

885
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: than kind of the Bernie Sanders, for instance, with the

886
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: administrative state, with using the levers of power that exist.

887
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: You know, she most famously burst on the scene with

888
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: her idea to create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which

889
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: now exists. She shepherd into law, she helped and she

890
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: set it up as its first kind of director, and

891
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: which has become the bane of Wall Street and the

892
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: bane of a lot of corporations that are that are

893
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: kind of pushing the envelope on what they're on the

894
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: way that they're allowed or not allowed to scam customers.

895
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: And so what's going on now in the Biden administration

896
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 1: is that this agency, which has for so long been

897
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: designed and deployed to slow down regulatory activities, actually now

898
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: been emboldened and empowered to work with agencies to try

899
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: to speed up the price and tough in regulations, and

900
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: people are saying that they've never seen anything like it,

901
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:07,720
Speaker 1: that a regulation would come to oh Ira. And Ohira

902
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 1: comes back and says, I think you can do better

903
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: than this. Come on, like, come on to crank this

904
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: up a little bit, like thirty parts per million. Move

905
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: this to one hundred parts per million. People are going

906
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: to die. And the agency is like, really, it's an

907
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: interesting story. I was glad that you sent this around, Ryan,

908
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: because there's an interesting story when you juxtappose it with

909
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: Jonathan Swan's report and Axios just about a month ago

910
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: about how a huge priority of another Trump administration. So

911
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: say he ran for president again and was elected, and

912
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: this would, by the way, be if Trump didn't run,

913
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: any other Republican would basically pick this up on what

914
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 1: is it, Schedule F? Yeah, schedule F. Basically dismantling the

915
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: so called deep state, the administrative state, the bureaucracy, the

916
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 1: federal bureaucracy, call it whatever you want. That's a huge

917
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: plank of the conserv to plan going forward. And that's

918
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: why I think the language here even is really funny.

919
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 1: Reclaiming the deep state from whom, because in my perspective,

920
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: any sort of conservative or Republican claiming ownership over the

921
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: deep state or over the administrative state is fundamentally not

922
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: conservative a Republican because there's nothing conservative a Republican about

923
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: sort of the sprawling mass of unelected powerful officials that

924
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: are now essentially regulating in ways that used to be

925
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: reserved power with powers that used to be reserved for

926
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: our elected officials in Congress, and it's spiraled so far

927
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: out of control that that's why Republicans say, if you

928
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: have a Republican president, it is like trying to turn

929
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: the Titanic around in four years at the administrative state.

930
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 1: Because in Washington, d C. Everyone sort of knows so

931
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: called careers in the cabinet agencies are overwhelmingly left. That

932
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they're all leftists. It means that they're

933
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: sort of center left for the most part. But that

934
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: means that if you're Donald Trump, or if you're Jeb

935
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: Bush for that matter, and you take control of the EPA,

936
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: good luck doing anything with that EPA. You might be

937
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: able to do some things here there and will run

938
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: the edges, but the EPA still exists, and so from

939
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: your perspective, it's going to be like four years of

940
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 1: trying to turn the Titanic around. What you have to

941
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: do is start, you know, working on well, then I

942
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: don't build a new one. Everybody gonna get a raft.

943
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 1: And if you don't get a raft, then hey, you

944
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: sink or swim. I mean, listen, we just talked about

945
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: in the last segment Title nine, and it's a great example.

946
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,919
Speaker 1: The Obama administration changed dramatically what was happening at every

947
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: single publicly funded school and actually basically every school because

948
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: of the legal precedent that it kind of established with

949
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: a letter called a Dear Colleague letter from John King

950
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: that it reinterpreted Title nine on sexual assault and reinterpreted

951
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 1: title line to include gender identity. And so a lot

952
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: of these fights that we're having about transgenderism in local

953
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: schools and sports, whatever it is, would probably have been

954
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: better litigated at the local level, but because they were

955
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: changed in one fall suit. But the Obama administration under

956
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 1: people's noses. I think it was Camille Pollia who said

957
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: she was like, I knew Hillary Clinton was going to

958
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: lose as soon as I saw what the Obama administration

959
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: did out of their Education Department. So conservative steed that

960
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: stuff and say we get into the Education Department. Maybe

961
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be abolished, although Betsy Devas I

962
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: think recently did say that, But what is the point

963
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: of just taking back a letter that then Joe Biden

964
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,240
Speaker 1: is going to get an office and use the Education

965
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: Department exactly like Barack Obama did. So I think that's

966
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: a slightly different case because those are those are those

967
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:41,839
Speaker 1: are fundamental policy differences that you're that you're carrying out

968
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: as an executive, Whereas what what Ouira is doing here

969
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: and what the deep state of the administrative state are

970
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 1: are fighting over are the kind of the who gets

971
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: to set the policies and what the process for them is.

972
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: And I just think that's a policy in and of itself.

973
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: It is, and the way that it expresses itself in

974
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 1: the in a part isn't divided on the on the

975
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: left say who are we reclaiming it from. We're reclaiming

976
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: it from corporate America. We're saying that corporate America has

977
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: through the seventies and eighties and nineties, has basically captured

978
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: these regulatory agencies that they're their wholly owned subsidiaries of

979
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: the corporations that they're supposed to actually be regulating on

980
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: behalf of the people, and so we're reclaiming it for

981
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: the people. Where I'm curious how the right would define

982
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: it in the best light. You'd say, well Trump, yes,

983
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 1: well let's say Trump wins. Therefore Trump's allies ought to

984
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: be able to, you know, set whatever policy they want. Uh.

985
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: And then the left, well, yeah, but it's it's just

986
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: a bunch of CEOs and corporate vps and lobbyists that

987
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: you're installing in all these places. Its like, hey, elections,

988
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: elections have consequences. So and then we'd be like, well,

989
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: how is that populist? Like, where's the where's the people

990
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: power there? Well? Remember, yeah, this was my favorite thing

991
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: to look back on. How the head of the State Department,

992
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 1: the Secretary of State was the CEO of Exon. He

993
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: just did that? Really? Peoplere like he has no experience

994
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,760
Speaker 1: in this, Like, no, the CEO of Exon has plenty

995
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: of experience as relevant to being the state He oh,

996
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: he knows exactly what he's doing. Yes, a hundred person. Yeah. No.

997
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: But the point that I would make is post with Wilsonian,

998
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: the post Wilsonian, sort of post Roosevelt's administrative state, the

999
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: corporate capture of it, I think is absolutely real, and

1000
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: that's sort of fundamentally an argument against it, because there's

1001
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: really no way to have a bureaucracy that is this

1002
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: vast and even hard to quantify this well? Is it though?

1003
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: I mean, is it plausibly something like? Isn't legitimately a bullwork?

1004
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: Say it happens, And this is a great question. Actually

1005
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,720
Speaker 1: I don't have a good answer for it. If it happens,

1006
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: is this an impenetrable bulwark or is it just a

1007
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: sort of stop gap? Everything I think is a stopgap

1008
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: because the war never ends and the fight never stops.

1009
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: But you're seeing on the regulatory front, you know, significant

1010
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: wins that industry is really pissed about. So in that sense,

1011
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: it's at least working for now. I mean, it's really

1012
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 1: interesting going forward to see what would happen, whether it's

1013
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: Joe Biden in the second term, whether it's Kamala Herrison

1014
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: the second term, what would happen if if they took

1015
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 1: seriously plans like this to as you say, reclaim from

1016
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: corporate America the bureaucracy. Yeah, we'll see, because they're definitely

1017
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: going to try to Corporate America is going to try

1018
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: to undermine this badly, kind of destroy all these individual people.

1019
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: That's the problem with personnel's policy, because then they just

1020
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: destroy the people. Yeah. Well, speaking of corporate America and

1021
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 1: destroying people. Yeah. The man we would like to see

1022
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: report this story none other than Chris Cuomo, whose show debuted.

1023
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: Let's see, let's check in with our sort of former

1024
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: colleague over at Riving Right because next our owns News

1025
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: Nation and which Chris Cualmo is now anchoring for. Here's Chris. So,

1026
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: this show is going to be different than what I've

1027
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: done in the past because I'm different and I've spent

1028
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 1: a lot of time looking and listening on the sidelines.

1029
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 1: It's obvious to me that we need people in my

1030
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: position to do more, to not just play or even

1031
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: referee the game that is plaguing our politics and society.

1032
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: That means exposing the game, show when it's played, show

1033
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: how it's being played, and also to be more transparent

1034
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,479
Speaker 1: about where my head is on the issues that we cover.

1035
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 1: I also have a new appreciation for exactly how unique

1036
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: my situation is. Most people in my business know politics

1037
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: from the outside. I know it from the inside. No, Chris,

1038
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: everyone is begging you to do us. Nobody wants people

1039
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: in your position to do more. And if that's how

1040
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: you're reading public opinion, it is a great glimpse at

1041
00:56:54,320 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: exactly how obtuse and disconnected from reality you are. I

1042
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: thought that so and News Nation is a cable channel.

1043
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: It exists. Yeah, we've both been as it has, uh

1044
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: has a channel, and it's it's ratings though so far,

1045
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: have been you know, utterly utterly abysmal, you know, the

1046
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: equivalent of kind of the cat like accidentally stepping on

1047
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: the remote and winding up at that channel. Although that's

1048
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: not terribly far from where like MSNBC is and CNN

1049
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: is right now too in certain in certain demos for sure. Uh.

1050
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: I thought though that they have the right initial diagnosis

1051
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: of the problem with the media, which is that nobody

1052
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,919
Speaker 1: trusts cable news. I think they're I think they're right

1053
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: about that. Their answer though, was that they're going to

1054
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: be the one you trust, Like they're going to be

1055
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: kind of centrist or center right. Uh, they're gonna they're

1056
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: gonna and they're going to tell you where they are.

1057
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: They're going to be as transparent as possible, and they're

1058
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: not going to use the term fair and balance because

1059
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: that's gone. But that's that's the kind of uh, folks

1060
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 1: that they're going for. They're going to be fair and balanced,

1061
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: and I just don't think there's an audience that believes that,

1062
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: Like I think the right here's you say that and

1063
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 1: they code that as liberal, and I think the liberals

1064
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: already have MSNBC and to a lesser degree now CNN.

1065
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: So who's the audience here. I think that the right

1066
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: kind of treatment for what they've diagnosed accurately is something

1067
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: more like this, where you're not telling somebody just trust me,

1068
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: I'm giving you the truth. You're giving people multiple perspectives

1069
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: at the same time and then letting them digest that

1070
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: and come up with whatever they believe. That it's treating

1071
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 1: the audience with a little more respect, to be more

1072
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: of an independent thinker, trusting the audience, trusting people. And yeah,

1073
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 1: it's with Chris Cuomo himself saying trying to have this

1074
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: moment of self reflection in saying, listen, I know politics

1075
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: from the inside. And that's part of the issue, right,

1076
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 1: Like he said, I have new appreciation he's spinning what

1077
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: is actually that he was lying and misrepresenting his involvement

1078
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: in a story that he covered for months, a pandemic

1079
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: that has killed over a million people in this country.

1080
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: He was lying and misrepresenting his relationship with a very

1081
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 1: powerful politician, his brother, who happened to be overseeing policy

1082
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: that was literally a matter of life and death. And

1083
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: I think for any news network to hire Chris Cuomo

1084
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: is really shameful. I really think that's the case. And

1085
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: I remember actually ran this was a day when we

1086
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: were at Rising. We played a clip of an interview

1087
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: that Chris Cuomo did on News Nation, which again is

1088
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: owned by by next Star, which is the company that

1089
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: owns The Hill and Rising. And I remember watching it

1090
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: and thinking in my head, oh my gosh, they're going

1091
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: to hire him, aren't they. And I'm so dense it

1092
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: it just it's it's not I mean again, like he's

1093
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: not offering contrition there. He's saying, I have new respect

1094
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: for my position. He's so arrogant, he can't bring himself

1095
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 1: to fundamentally reckon with the problem he's actually saying. And listen,

1096
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: by the way, I think there's benefit to people who

1097
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: are really close to policymakers having the platforms in the media,

1098
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: because it's a great way to tell what the spin is.

1099
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: But that's not what he's saying. He's going to be

1100
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: going beyond refereeing. He's going to be telling you where

1101
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 1: his head's at, because everybody wants to know that. And

1102
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: I can see why he's doing it because I think

1103
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: that he has a story to tell. I think that

1104
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: it's sympathetic to an audience that doesn't know the whole story.

1105
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: If all you know is that, hey, he gave his

1106
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: brother some advice and while his brother was going through

1107
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: difficult times, then ninety percent of people are going to

1108
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: be like, you know, that's fine, I would give my

1109
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: brother advice if he's going through a difficult time. Just

1110
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: because you have a particular job doesn't mean you have

1111
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 1: to completely ice out your entire family. But that's but

1112
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 1: it's so far beyond. It went so far beyond that.

1113
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 1: So I think what he's trying to do is reframe

1114
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: what his crime, what his sin was, as being too

1115
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,959
Speaker 1: close to politics, being too inside, just giving his brother

1116
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 1: some good advice as he was going through a scandal,

1117
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: and that what he's going to do is he's going

1118
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 1: to turn that to the viewer's advantage and share all

1119
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: of his insights transparently with people in real time, when

1120
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: the actual sin was not what he said to his brother,

1121
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: but what he said to the public, said things to

1122
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 1: the public that he knew were untrue. And as a newsman,

1123
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 1: as a news gatherer, a newsperson, you cannot do that. No, no,

1124
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: you can't. And whether or not it's your brother, I mean,

1125
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: we don't know if that stops with it just being

1126
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: his brother, because this is the one thing that we've

1127
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: really gotten insight into. But this is basically how media works.

1128
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: And I think the more the audience learns about how

1129
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: the media works in New York and DC, the more

1130
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,120
Speaker 1: they understand that there's really no trust left we had.

1131
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 1: And I agree there's a huge audience for things exactly

1132
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: like breaking points for that purpose. It's that like trust

1133
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: the audience, say what your opinion is, as somebody on

1134
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: the left somebody on the right, trust the audience to

1135
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 1: kind of you know, compare and contrast and you know, come.

1136
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: Maybe they grew with you and maybe they don't. But

1137
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: I do also think there's an audience for like the

1138
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: version of wire reports that used to be something like CNN,

1139
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 1: because people did like that a lot. And I think

1140
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: that's what the new head of CNN, Chris Lick, is

1141
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 1: trying to go for. I think he has research for

1142
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 1: the most part that likely suggests that's the case. I

1143
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,000
Speaker 1: just don't know that it can actually fundamentally be done anymore.

1144
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:29,680
Speaker 1: And the Katie Helper case study we talked about last week,

1145
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: which is also a Next Star story because it happened

1146
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,439
Speaker 1: at a hill property and went to the very top.

1147
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: We know that it went to Nexttar and that Next

1148
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 1: Star is the one that basically pulled the plug on

1149
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: Katie's rising appearances. And hiring Chris Cuomer are two really

1150
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: good examples of somebody as a network that's trying to

1151
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: be both entertaining and informative in twenty twenty two, that

1152
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: is trying to do the sort of fair and balance

1153
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: right down the middle approach to news gathering. It's almost impossible.

1154
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible, and almost every experiment is doomed to fail.

1155
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 1: So you know, it's probably better to be to air

1156
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: on the side of honesty anyway. I trust us we're

1157
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: going to be transparent, just definitely not on Israel. Yeah yeah,

1158
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 1: which they didn't really even say it. And by the way,

1159
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: some of us like we were really good friends with

1160
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: the governor. So you know, it's sometimes we're going to

1161
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: pull the punch former governor. Yeah, former governor. But well,

1162
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: whoever it is, I mean, it could be any yeah,

1163
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: but like so sometimes we won't pull punches. But hey,

1164
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: just trust we know when you need the truth, when

1165
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: when Anthony Fauci is Sometimes Anthony Factory has good reasons

1166
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: to tell people that masks don't work, And when you're

1167
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,760
Speaker 1: ready to hear the truth, we'll let him give it

1168
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: to you. On yesterday's show, Saga talked about a new

1169
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: NIH grant given by doctor Anthony Fauci on his way

1170
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: out the door to none other than the organization EcoHealth Alliance,

1171
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: which is run by Peter Dazac. That is at the

1172
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: heart of the controversy over the origin of the pandemic now.

1173
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: As Saga noted, even though the mainstream media now treats

1174
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: this question as if it's been so, most of the

1175
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: scientific community now acknowledge its origin is at minimum and

1176
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: open question. Here, Sager and the medical journal De Lancet

1177
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: have retracted its declaration that there is no way COVID

1178
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 1: came from the lab, and at least admit today it

1179
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,439
Speaker 1: is just as likely that it did just as likely

1180
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: that it didn't. Saga has a great rundown of the

1181
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 1: history of the last two years of this, and it's

1182
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: well worth going back and watching it if you missed

1183
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: it yesterday. But I want to focus on two different

1184
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: elements of this outrageous grant. First, the new grant comes

1185
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 1: after the NIH in August this August terminated a subaward

1186
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: to the Wuhan Institute of Virology that had been part

1187
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: of an earlier grant to EcoHealth Alliance, telling the House

1188
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 1: Oversight Committee the organization had refused to turn over laboratory

1189
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: notebooks and other records as required. Yes, you heard that right.

1190
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: Less than two months ago, the NIH terminated an EcoHealth

1191
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 1: Alliance award because it was repeatedly refused to turnover lab

1192
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: notebooks and electronic files that the NIH had demanded. Those

1193
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: notebooks are essential to understanding exactly what kind of research

1194
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: they were doing and could hold clues to the origins

1195
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 1: of the pandemic. The lack of that very specific evidence

1196
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: is the main thing that people who dismissed the lablik

1197
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: as a conspiracy like to point to. But we don't

1198
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: have all the evidence because EcoHealth hasn't turned it over,

1199
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: so they then lost their grant. Here's what the NIH

1200
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 1: said in a letter to the Oversight Committee. Quote. NIH

1201
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: has requested on two occasions that EHA provide NIH the

1202
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: laboratory notebooks and original electronic files from the research conducted

1203
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: at WIV. To date, WIV has not provided these records. Today,

1204
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 1: NIH has informed EHA that since WIV is unable to

1205
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: fulfill its duties for the subward under the grant, that

1206
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: WIV subward is terminated for failure to meet award terms

1207
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 1: and conditions, requiring provisions of a provision of records to

1208
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 1: NIH upon request unquote, and just weeks later, this new

1209
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: grant gets given out. Now, the other thing I want

1210
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: to talk about is the danger of the kind of

1211
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 1: surveillance research they plan to do with this new grant.

1212
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: The aim of the new research. The stated aim of

1213
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: the new research is to identify areas of potential concern

1214
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: for future pandemic emergence to help public health authorities suppress

1215
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: an outbreak before it breaks containment. But the process of

1216
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 1: performing the research introduces the risk of sparking an outbreak

1217
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: that would not otherwise have occurred. A concern highlighted by

1218
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: the intercept last year. As Sharon Lerner wrote, quote, virtually

1219
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: every part of the work of outbreak prediction can result

1220
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 1: in an accidental infection, even with the best of intentions.

1221
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: Scientists can serve as vectors for the viruses they hunt,

1222
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 1: and as a result, their work may put everyone else's

1223
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: lives on the line along with their own. Unquote. The

1224
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: new grant proposes to collect samples of viruses from wildlife

1225
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: and then quote rapidly rapidly supply viral sequences and isolates

1226
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: for use in vaccine and therapeutic development unquote. Likely meeting,

1227
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: the researchers could ship live viruses around the world. Doctor

1228
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist with the Waxman Institute at

1229
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 1: Rutgers University, told me this quote. It is disturbing that

1230
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: additional funding continues to be awarded for the same high

1231
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 1: risk research that may have caused the current pandemic. Before

1232
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: there has been a national investigation of the origin of

1233
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: the current pandemic, he said, referring to multiple ongoing grants

1234
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: of EcoHealth alliances. Another EcoHealth grant quote study of nipavirus

1235
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,439
Speaker 1: dynamics and genetics in its bat reservoir and of human

1236
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: exposure to NIV across Bangladesh. To understand patterns of human

1237
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: outbreaks also involves high risk collection of viruses. That Southeast

1238
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: Asia Hotspot Grant was awarded in June twenty twenty, at

1239
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 1: the height of controversy over the grant covering work in Wuhan.

1240
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: Democrats in Congress have paid very little attention to the

1241
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 1: NIH funding controversy, but Republicans could soon be in charge

1242
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: of one or both chambers. Representative Kathy MacMorris Rodgers, the

1243
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: top Republican on the powerful Energy and Commerce Committee, is

1244
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: in line to chair the panel in the event of

1245
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: a takeover. On Monday, slammed the NIH for its continued

1246
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: funding of Dazac's organization, telling me in a statement, quote,

1247
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: EcoHealth Alliance and Peter Dazak should not be getting a

1248
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: dime of taxpayer funds until they are completely transparent, period.

1249
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: This is madness unquote this further quote, This further intensifies

1250
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 1: our extensive commitment on the Energy and Commerce Committee to

1251
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,759
Speaker 1: ensure accountability from the NIH for its role in supporting

1252
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 1: taxpayer funded risky research without proper oversight of its grantees.

1253
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: And so you have both the Oversight Committee and the

1254
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 1: Energy America sadly lost one of its great artists yesterday

1255
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: when Loretta Lynn passed away at the age of ninety.

1256
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: She deserves to be remembered truly, alongside George Jones and

1257
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:47,759
Speaker 1: Hank Williams as one of the defining voices of country music,

1258
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: a genre that's much more complicated than many media critics realize.

1259
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 1: They marvel at how someone like Lynn could be so

1260
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: progressive and quote ahead of her time on divorce and

1261
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: birth control, but support politicians like Donald Trump. I'm not kidding.

1262
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 1: The Washington Post literally wrote that yesterday, fast enough to

1263
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: publish within hours of her death. The paper's pop music

1264
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: critics said, quote, if coal Miner's daughter was Lynn's hallmark,

1265
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: the pill is her triumph and its legacy in a

1266
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 1: post row America has become more complicated than previously imaginable.

1267
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,759
Speaker 1: What a decade's old song about birth control leaves behind

1268
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 1: a more complicated legacy because Roe was overturned. Whatever you

1269
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: think about abortion, that kind of analysis is a good

1270
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 1: example of the pseudo intellectual babble that earns people paychecks

1271
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,679
Speaker 1: in the legacy press. The song's legacy is no different now.

1272
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: Than it was a year ago. Absurdly, the Post article continued,

1273
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: Here's something even messier. Lynn was an early and avid

1274
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 1: supporter of Donald Trump, the candidate turned president, whose Supreme

1275
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,719
Speaker 1: Court appointees, in their eventual overturning of Roe v. Wade,

1276
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 1: would help strip away the very rights that her art

1277
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 1: ultimately fought for. How do we begin to understand that? Well,

1278
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: it's not that hard and it's not that messy. Like

1279
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 1: millions of Americans, Lynn somehow managed to enjoy the popular

1280
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: comforts of modernity while simultaneously thinking Trump was quote the

1281
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: only one who's going to turn this country around. As

1282
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: Linn said back in twenty sixteen, that's a quote from

1283
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 1: her Directly agree with her or don't, but the position

1284
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: is entirely reasonable if you understand what's happened to America's

1285
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: working class. Coal Miner's Daughter is one of the great

1286
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 1: class conscious anthems of the American songbook. The Pill, which

1287
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 1: actually became one of the legendary songs banned by country radio.

1288
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,719
Speaker 1: Is fine, but it's hardly Lynn's triumph. As the Post

1289
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 1: put it, womenhod got weird in the twentieth century, and

1290
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: it's still weird now. In some ways it changed for

1291
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: the better, like for women who can get the hell

1292
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 1: out of abusive marriages and hold men to higher standards

1293
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: of respect. In other ways, as women have fewer children

1294
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: than they want, lament the pains of hookup culture and

1295
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 1: struggle to find marriageable men, things are changing for the worst.

1296
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:55,880
Speaker 1: Social scientists have actually referred to this as the quote

1297
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,719
Speaker 1: Women's happiness paradox. A Guardian article published in twenty sixteen

1298
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 1: ex explained that two researchers quote discovered that American women

1299
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: rated their overall life satisfaction hire the men's in the

1300
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. Thereafter, women's happiness scores decreased, while men's scores

1301
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:15,519
Speaker 1: stayed roughly stable. By the nineteen nineties, women were less

1302
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: happy than men. This relative unhappiness softened after the turn

1303
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: of the century, but men continued to enjoy a higher

1304
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 1: sense of subjective well being that is at least as high,

1305
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: if not higher, than women's. Okay, so Lynn wrote many

1306
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: of her greatest hits on her own, like you Ain't

1307
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 1: Women Enough to take My Man? One of my favorites

1308
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: rated X, and of course Coal Miner's Daughter like the

1309
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 1: Pill rated X. Challenged conventions around sex and marriage. Why

1310
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: might a woman from rural Kentucky have progressives take on

1311
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 1: have progressive takes on things like divorce and pill in

1312
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies, Well, because the consequences

1313
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,839
Speaker 1: of surprise pregnancies and bad marriages are even more difficult

1314
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 1: to handle when you have fewer resources for nannies and

1315
01:11:56,160 --> 01:12:00,799
Speaker 1: lawyers and income sources. Lynn's class interests have to intersect

1316
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 1: with the radical politics of the time and of today,

1317
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:07,600
Speaker 1: so journalists are comfortable celebrating her, although with caveats. But

1318
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: when working class politics aren't quite as chic today, those

1319
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 1: same journalists and cultural gatekeepers don't believe working class voices

1320
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: should have any representation in corporate media. It gets messy

1321
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 1: to borrow a word now. Support for abortion, for instance,

1322
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: declines with income and education. The same is true of

1323
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 1: same sex marriage. Go on CNN and talk about why

1324
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 1: the media is corrupt and see if you're invited to

1325
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: cocktail parties. Speak out against feminism or extreme gender ideology,

1326
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 1: and see what happens. In her video for Look What

1327
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 1: You Made Me Do, former country star Taylor Swift depicted

1328
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 1: people opposed to LGBT rights as literal toothless roubs like

1329
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: she literally knocked the teeth out of the actors, mocking

1330
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 1: their class way more than their ideas. If you look

1331
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: at the pictures from that video, or go look at

1332
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 1: the video yourself, they are incredible. At the time, though,

1333
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 1: Pew found the co wort with the highest opposition of

1334
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 1: gay marriage was actually Blackhamermerricans. But Swift wanted to mock

1335
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 1: poor white people because it's easier right now. So speak

1336
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: out in favor of black lives Matter today and the

1337
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 1: country music industry will celebrate you, as they did with

1338
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 1: Mickey Guitton. That's all well and good, but that wouldn't

1339
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 1: happen to someone who took the opposite position, because again,

1340
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 1: it's all about class. At the end of the day,

1341
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: gatekeepers hate Trump more than Bernie, but they hate both

1342
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: more than Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush. If your politics

1343
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: are acceptable to elites, you'll be just fine. If not, well,

1344
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 1: as Loretta Lynn might have said, you're rated x. That's

1345
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,120
Speaker 1: a shame because country music was one of the few

1346
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: places left in American culture where working class people were

1347
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: allowed to have a voice in the mainstream. Still better

1348
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 1: than other places, sure, and Trux and Berrick great, but

1349
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 1: they're easy. Country music has a long political history, some

1350
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 1: of it good and some of it bad, some of

1351
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:46,839
Speaker 1: it progressive and some of it conservative. But the legacy

1352
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: of doing less with more, of singing about an unfashionable

1353
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 1: lifestyle without shame, that's being left behind as Nashville becomes

1354
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: just as risk averse and just as classist as the

1355
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: news industry, the entertainment industry, Silicon Valley, Washington, d C,

1356
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: and Walsh. Whether you're like Trump or Bernie or Hillary

1357
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 1: or Jeb that that should concern you. The working class

1358
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 1: isn't a monolith. This is so much bigger than politics.

1359
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 1: This is about elites bulldozing American culture by rating everyone x.

1360
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 1: If they subvert the dogma of their educated betters in

1361
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,760
Speaker 1: c suites and newsrooms, it's not healthy. It's not going

1362
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 1: to end well. So when you think of the coal

1363
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 1: miner's daughter, think about what she actually represented. Ran. One

1364
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 1: of the things I really agree with the left on

1365
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 1: is the concept of representation. I think racial representation. Well,

1366
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 1: this has been a rare Wednesday edition of Counterpoints. Friday. Yeah,

1367
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 1: don't expect it. Well, you know, we're both planning on

1368
01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: being out of town for what is being, you know,

1369
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 1: called Columbus day we can or indigenous peoples we were

1370
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 1: talking about this earlier. Columbus. If anybody deserves to have

1371
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 1: his name stripped from a holiday, it's Columbus. He's a

1372
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 1: guy who in his own time people were like that

1373
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: guy is awful, Like that guy is really bad. Like

1374
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, some people you know and their lives in

1375
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 1: prison unjustly and are treated unfairly because they were just

1376
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 1: ahead of their time. Christopher Columbus was recognized in his

1377
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 1: own time for the absolute demon that he was. So

1378
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: and yeah, I don't I don't disagree with Christopher Columbus

1379
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 1: being an absolute demon. I do generally disagree with the

1380
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:23,840
Speaker 1: idea of stripping all references to the absolute demons who

1381
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: often played big roles in building a country, just because

1382
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 1: it's important that we look back right and that we

1383
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: confront some of this stuff. Honestly, now, you know, there

1384
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,759
Speaker 1: are good reasons for some of the reconstruction statues, for instance,

1385
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 1: my God in Richmond with some of that stuff, Like

1386
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: by all means, I don't know, I'm sort of ambivalent

1387
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:47,879
Speaker 1: on the name Columbus. Maybe you can find a different Columbus.

1388
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: I think, you know, if you can keep names the

1389
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 1: same and just kind of reorient who was honoring, like

1390
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: my like the high school in my neighborhood, Wilson High

1391
01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 1: School has been renamed, oh gosh to Tom Thomas Reid

1392
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 1: or something like that. But it's so confusing because everybody

1393
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 1: thinks of it as Wilson. Like there's a million Wilson's

1394
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 1: take another Wilson take the volleyball. Yeah, ask Wilson if

1395
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 1: they'll just sponsor it. Yeah, and then you can tell

1396
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: that story. It's make it a teachable moment to Tom

1397
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: Hanks can be the commencement speakers. Still Wilson High School,

1398
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: but it's not that Wilson. Here's why it's not. But

1399
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:24,439
Speaker 1: it's still Wilson. No, but it's a yeah. I think

1400
01:16:24,439 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: telling the stories at least and telling the stories and

1401
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:28,719
Speaker 1: all the contexts that they need to have is important.

1402
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:31,960
Speaker 1: So on that note, we wish everybody a long weekend.

1403
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:34,040
Speaker 1: If you've got a long weekend, hope you enjoy it.

1404
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy the fall weather. And you know,

1405
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 1: we'll be back on Friday as usual. That part of

1406
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:41,600
Speaker 1: the problem with doing it on Wednesday is that we

1407
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:44,519
Speaker 1: don't instill the Pavlovian response that we want the start

1408
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 1: of our conspiracy make people like oh it's Friday at

1409
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: right and Evily but Crystal, he's some Sorry, we'll be

1410
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 1: back as usual after the long weekend. We thank everybody

1411
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 1: for tuning in, and we will see you next Friday.

1412
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:57,880
Speaker 1: Here on Counterpoints,