WEBVTT - Episode 4: A Delicate Balance 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:03.279 The Manowa Caves is intended for mature audiences. It contains 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.200 strong language and depictions of bullying, violence, and sexual assault 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:10.720 that some may find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised. Also, 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.240 this is an extremely immersive experience and headphones are recommended. 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.040 You're listening to The Manawat Caves, a production of iHeartRadio, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:50.680 Blumhouse Television, and Psycopia Pictures. J August fifth. I woke 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:52.440 up in the pool of my own sweat this morning. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.880 It was three thirty three am, exactly three thirty three. 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.360 The hotel room was sweltering. The acunit had been blown 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.200 out in hot air all night. I took my mind 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:07.760 a minute to catch up to where I was, to 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.160 realize that I wasn't still back in my New York apartment, 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.200 that I was back home. I thought this had all 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:19.160 just been an elaborate dream. But it wasn't a dream. 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:21.560 I had to listen back to my tape, the recordings 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:23.440 from yesterday, to find out where I'd been and what 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:45.840 I'd done. And his biological father was Deacon Hadley. There 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.200 is if you remember what the detective was looking for 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.280 when he stopped by that last time back in July 0:01:51.360 --> 0:02:06.360 two thousand and seven containers records. I hopped in the shower. 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:10.679 The school off water was ice cold, never got hot, 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.280 And as soon as I stepped into that cold shower, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:22.720 the nightmare came back to me. There were bats, thousands 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:27.840 of bats, shifting blotches against other shades of darkness, a cavern, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.400 deep and strange. I was staring into the whirling black 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:36.600 on black. Then I heard deaconheading. He was calling out 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:42.160 further back in the void, I heard him crying. That's 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.920 how I followed the voice, straining to hear over the 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:51.720 cacophony of bats swirling around me, anguished please, for forgiveness. 0:02:53.800 --> 0:03:00.440 Then he stopped, and all I heard was the flutter 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.680 and chirp in of those bats. They seemed to converge 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:08.560 around me, and then they exploded out worth the whole colony, 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.720 thousands and thousands of them, leaving the cave in a funnel, 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:17.240 carrying Thomas Hadley's final anguish cries with them across the forest, 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.480 over the ramshackle trailer homes and cabins, over the Chapel 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:25.160 Wall River into Pottsville, all the way into my own bedroom. 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.040 And then suddenly I was back there in the house. 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:34.320 I grew up in my own bed, and the gray 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:39.520 Man was there too, in the room with me, silhouetted 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:46.560 in the doorway. I couldn't move. He looked down upon me. 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.680 Maybe he was able to the ground. Who else might 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.080 a going out to the caves that day? Someone always 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:28.279 knows something. I wanted to stand up for him, but 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:33.359 I couldn't. Not the time Deacon Hadley threw a couple 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:38.040 of warrant pists on his head from the second story bathroom, 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.440 and not the time Thomas Hadley locked him as a locker. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.599 I wanted to stop it, but I knew it would 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.480 just make matters worse for me. This is why he 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:55.080 came home, isn't it. James Fancher's executions coming up in 0:04:55.160 --> 0:05:06.799 your anguish too, Angel. There's no small thing to stand 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:11.479 up to a bully. When you do, you become the target. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.599 I've been bullied quite a bit when I was a boy. 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.640 Wasn't until I befriended Tyler Wilson in the ninth grade 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.680 that had stopped. Tyler was from a different neck of 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.560 the woods. He was quiet and kept to himself, but 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.080 he was tough. No, the Hadley gang didn't want to 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:33.000 fuck with Tyler. It was too much trouble. They might 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.640 actually have to fight, and they knew Tyler would fight 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.520 for real. But after my battle on the bus with 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:43.919 Duley Tapper trying to stand up for Finch, the bullying 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.360 started again for me. I don't look who where's the pants? 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.000 I told you they was gay livers, didn't I you're 0:05:52.000 --> 0:06:03.359 gonna get it in half? Faget. I don't even get that. 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.480 Next week, my dad had to pick me up from school. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.280 He saw the Hadley gang laughing and throwing threats. As 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:15.880 I walked past, he comes, I fag it, you're gonna 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:20.440 get it soon or not. Fucker A time's coming, little 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:26.960 bitch scate. Yeah, I'm whip his ass and gain I'm 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:34.719 gonna whip your ass again. Those your friends not exactly 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.960 forget a dad best just to adoring on. Those are 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.040 Bobby Handley's kids. Yeah, it's it's not a big deal. 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.320 My dad ran the mechanic shop at the Hadley dealership 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:51.400 and it was no secret in our house that he 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:58.279 despised Bobby Hadley. H get messing with you again? What 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:07.360 this is? This is high school. It's it ain't like that, dad, Really, 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.040 those guys are just pricks. It's not worth the energy. 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:19.800 He was livid. Things were beyond his control. It was 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:28.280 less than a year since Mom died too. Anyway, A 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:30.239 couple of days later, I was reading in the library 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.360 during lunch. That's when they got me. I was sitting 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.880 between the rows of bookshelves in the back with Thomas, 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.240 Deacon Dually and the rest of them. They cornered me. 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:51.960 Thomas held me in a headlock. Due we hit my 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:58.320 face and box. That wasn't so bad, but then Deacon 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:03.800 gotta para scissors off the librarian's desk. They pulled my 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.560 pants down to my ankles. Hey what He scissored the 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.640 blades in front of my face to show them off, 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.200 before he pressed a cold, sharp metal blades against my bass. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:23.560 What are you anyway? Boy or a bitch? Hey? You 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:31.840 know what? I'll tell you what a man? Maybe name 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:36.360 send me? He's such a pussy, Just get off. Then 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.640 he grabs stress full of my hair and it was loan. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.960 Then he scissored it off and tossed it on the carpet. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:45.760 Just then the library mother came back in and put 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:47.880 mencim Thomas and the rest of them all bring off. 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:55.080 Was laughing there were a few other kids in the 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.760 library who did nothing but gawk at me while I 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.240 pulled my pants back up. Well, my father picked me 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:05.160 up that afternoon. He saw my hair and my swollen face, 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.120 and there was no deny at it anymore. His son 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.480 was the target of the town police, and there was 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:27.680 nothing he could do. August fifth, on my way to 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.840 meet Joe Campbell again, up the road, halfway to Nashville. 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.640 I'm late. I can't seem to wake up all the way. 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.400 She just stopped at the Myrtles for a coffee. It's 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:38.920 a little diner we used to go to when I 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:42.720 was a Kid's still standing. Not so sure about missus 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:50.840 Myrtle though. I feel like a ghost in this town. 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.440 Lots of familiar faces from my past, everyone older and heavier. 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.839 They make eye contact with me and their real spin. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.360 Some recognize me of familiar face registers in their mind, 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:09.520 but they can't quite place me, so they stare. Others 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.720 remember me, and I'm guessing by their looks. You recall 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:18.680 certain feelings, feelings associated with the Hadley Brothers murders, especially now. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:24.920 You can feel the energy just driving through town. James Fincher, 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.160 the monster and Man of war County is going to 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.160 be put to death next week, and that seems to 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:38.400 inform every interaction. It's an added tension that's come with 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:46.000 this fog, the air tingling like a mom on a 0:10:46.120 --> 0:11:20.959 timer tick tick boom, a county judge ordered, and no 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.640 knock worn on the trailer that James Fincher shared with 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.800 his sister Dina, and Buck's elder lane over in splinter gap, 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.040 you can see from the only available footage a state 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.880 trooper's body camp, that it's complete chaos, with county and 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.880 state officials working in tandem and flooded in the small 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.559 space with light and the noise and the terror. At 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:43.760 three o'clock in the morning, Dina's face seemed briefly mouth 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.920 opened to scream, hair swept across her face as she 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:51.480 spirited out. Bally swollen with child tells the tale. In 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.400 the motion blur, you can see a streak of red 0:11:55.120 --> 0:12:01.600 a nose bleed. What's perhaps more chun is how calmly 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.439 we see Finch rise from the couch that he slept on, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.520 hands up, eyes dead, mouth a grim line, and then 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.640 slowly turned and sink to his knees like it was inevitable, 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.199 like he knew they were coming, like he always knew 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:23.440 that they would come for him. Eventually, he was brought 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:24.880 to the county jail in the middle of the night, 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.319 and the town at large was completely unaware of the developments. 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.000 Even Detective Silomon Smith was left in the dark and 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.240 would have remained so if he didn't decide to pay 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:37.120 the Fincher home and visit himself two days later to 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.440 find broken windows and a very terrified Dina trying to 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:45.079 put things back in order. Jill Campbell explained it best. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:50.400 That's per usual. People have a complicated relationship with the 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:54.959 law out here. People here liked to be left alone. 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.200 Think what happens behind closed doors are on their property 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.679 is their business and theirs alone. I mean, most of 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.120 it is a run of the male constitutional rights and 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:08.359 individual freedom stuff. Deah, my dad, it was that way. Yeah, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:13.360 well most people are. Then you got your griff Washingtons, 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.559 the dog fighting rings, the meth cooks, the real criminal element, 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:23.319 people who have something to hide. But Buddy, there ain't 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.800 nothing that changes the patriots mind about authority like an 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:31.960 outsider coming in and making trouble. L Finch, I'm talking 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.319 about Detective Smith. Now, I don't want to say it 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.280 was a race thing. But it was absolutely a race thing. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:45.960 I mean by default. Look, Share Hooper, born and raised 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.520 here all his life, getting ready to close this case 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.320 against a kid who allegedly murdered two of Mani Wak's 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:55.360 favorite sons, and the moment he announces it incomes some 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.080 former big city Atlanta cop to defend the alleged murderer. 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.760 At the time, I was caught up in all the excitement. 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.480 I was there at the raid. It was the most 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:12.000 badass thing I'd ever done. Didn't matter that Dana was 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.360 screaming or that James gave up without a fight. I 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.839 was young. I got to play hero. It didn't even 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.040 occur to me that we may have had shit wrong 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.240 until the article came out. The article What an article? 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:28.200 Detective Smith went to the local press. A couple of 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:32.200 days later, a story printed about James Fincher with Solomon 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:36.000 owned records suggesting ulterior motives for the rest of Finch 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:41.720 no shit. Other publications picked it up to Smith publicly 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.200 called out the sheriff, the mayor, the reverend, basically torturing 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:50.600 every bridge he ever crossed in manu Wake County. What 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:56.440 was the last time you saw him Detective Smith. Well 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.880 after the news piece broke, I wrote with Hooper out 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.440 to the old fowl or place where Solomon was living 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.040 and had that go. Hooper made me wait on the porch. 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.360 There was a lot of shouting and then it got quiet, 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:18.880 and then and then Hooper came out. His face was 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:23.760 flushed and sweaty. He wouldn't make eye contact. He was 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:30.120 visibly mad as hell. Anyway, last I saw Solomon Smith 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.880 was as we were pulling out. He was standing on 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.760 the porch, hands on his hips, just to find as 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:45.520 hell to Hooper SAE what had happened. Hooper told Smith 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.960 he was no longer welcome and man of walk count 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.040 in that if he knew what was good for him, 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:56.680 he'd leave quietly. But I don't think Detective Smith left 0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:02.960 because of Hooper. I think he knew who the killer 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:08.480 was before he disappeared. He was looking into the school 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:12.480 attendance records from Carter High. He was tracking whoever else 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:15.640 was absent from school that day. You think he would 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:20.440 have submitted those records as evidence had it not. If 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.200 it was after he was off the case. He couldn't 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.520 exactly trust the sheriff's office. He was basically a private investigator. 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.600 At that point, he'd set a meeting with James's defense attorney, 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.920 but he never showed up. So whatever Solomon Smith knew, 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.920 he took that intel with him to wherever it is 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:47.320 he went. Where was you last seen? I'm not sure 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:54.000 they found his car though, about a decade ago, just 0:16:54.160 --> 0:17:00.320 north of here. I think I don't remember. Maybe I 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:04.680 can dig up the police report, or maybe you can 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:10.200 talk to the guys at the newspaper. August fifth, two 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.159 forty five pm. I took Joe's advice. I'm on my 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.160 way to the Pottsville Press to talk to a guy 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:20.800 named Ian Spanks, the editor in chief. Maybe Detective Smith 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.120 told the press something, something more than what they decided 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:40.840 to print. Mister Spinks, Julian Solace, mister Slace, come in. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.080 You can call me Jolian. Looking a little rough around 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.320 the edge since the last time I saw you. The 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.240 last time, Yeah, I doubt you'd remember me. I was 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.560 just a facing the crowd the courthouse back then. You 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.960 were there for that. Okay, Well, thanks for seeing me. 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.720 How could I know? I'm hoping you'll be the skyline 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.680 I was Sunday's front page about James Fincher and the 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.040 fourteen year anniversary of the Heathy Brothers murders. Prodigal Son 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.520 returns right the wrongs he himself contributed to hell of 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.880 a story. Interested to see where it goes. Well, you're 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.800 not serious, I am. I think we can help each 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.879 other out here. Well, I just need the tapes. The tapes, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.000 they're of interest in my research. The press interview with 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.960 Detective Smith from two thousand and seven. Oh oh, I 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:34.440 thought you were interested in the other ones. What's other ones? Well? 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:42.879 The ones are you? What are you talking about? This 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:56.920 is Sheriff Hooper's and tear gage of you. Can I 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.960 please go to the bathroom, sir? Just top more questions? 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:07.960 All right? So, okay, you're not in trouble yet, all right, Okay, 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:15.080 look at me. Yeah, what you say here now there's 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:20.040 just between you and me. Nobody's gonna find out. Nobody's 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.119 gonna be mad at you for saying what you know. 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:28.000 And I think it's safe to say that you do 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:35.480 know things. Now. Earlier you said that James Fincher hated 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:40.879 the Hadley Brothers. Is that right? Well, yeah, but because 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:42.960 of what they did to his sister, what they did 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.919 to Dina but you weren't there for that, were you? No? 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:52.320 But yeah? Moving on, moving on the point is James 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:57.800 Fincher had it out for the Hadleys? Is that right now? 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.760 You really need to be straight with me, Son, Yes, sir, 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.920 you could say he hated them enough to want to 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:12.760 hurt them. Couldn't you that he wanted revenge? I couldn't 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.840 say all that was true. It's simply based Look at 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:21.040 these photos, Son, Look at him. Blunt forced trauma to 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:27.240 the head, multiple stab wounds. Hell, Deacon Hadley was bashed 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.320 so hard in the head that his left eyeball was 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.880 hanging out of his eye socket. Thomas's throat cut. Can 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.919 you imagine the type of hatred you would have to feel, Julian, 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.360 to relentlessly bash a human body to the point where 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:49.359 it is almost unrecognizable? Well? Can you, Son, I don't 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.800 need Can you defend the kind of person that could 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:57.560 do that? Could you feel this sort of hatred? Well? 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:03.720 I no, I don't know. I need to go to 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:07.040 the bathroom. But do you know that James Fincher hated them? 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:12.040 Don't you? You can say that? I need you to 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.440 say that. Say what what you want me to say? Say? 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:21.439 What that James Fincher hated them, that he wanted to 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:26.320 hurt them now, that he wanted revenge, that he obsessed 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:28.840 over them. He made up stories about them to wreck 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.479 their lives. Didn't That's just not true. No, he didn't. 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.959 He did. You know he did? He didn't just because 0:21:34.960 --> 0:21:45.679 they picked on him. No, he didn't. Julian, have you 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:50.480 heard the phrase accessory after the fact? It means that 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:55.399 if you know something, something crucial to my investigation of 0:21:55.400 --> 0:22:00.360 the murder of Thomas and Deacon Hadley, and you withhold it, well, 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.639 then you're guilty too. And I think you know something, boy, 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.520 And if you don't tell me now and I find 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:12.359 out later, there ain't no jury in the world gonna 0:22:12.400 --> 0:22:15.719 let you be free. I don't. They always used to 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.000 bully in And he knew it too, didn't you. You 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.080 knew what he was planning because you boys were going 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.119 down there at the caves all the time. Hell, you 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:31.119 showed him the place yourself, didn't you. I didn't. You 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:36.399 didn't what, Julian? You showed James Fincher the ins and 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:39.520 outs of it. And that's okay, son, There's nothing wrong 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.679 with that. Everybody likes a little frill I'm not suggesting 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:48.560 you knew that you were dealing with a psychopath, did you? 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:54.240 You're not a bad kid he used you, didn't he No, 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:58.320 he got in your head, he tricked you. No, no 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:03.159 he didn't. He could plan no revenge, No, no, I 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:05.199 just we went there to hang out. We were just 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:09.680 It wasn't the Hadley's idea to go down there that night, 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:15.280 was it? No? Because if they wanted to hurt James, 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.000 they do it right out in the open, right, They've 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:22.160 been doing it for years. But James wanted to play 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:27.800 for keeps and he knew just the place. James wanted 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:35.800 to take them out to the caves. That now, you 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.520 better tell me the truth, son. You know we got 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:44.240 your buddy Tyler here too, right. Oh yeah, yeah, he's 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:47.879 right across the hall, and he's already told us the truth. 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:54.359 So what's it going to be your story or his? Now? Talk? 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:58.680 James Fincher wanted to take them out to the caves, 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:10.200 didn't he answer me? Maybe? Yeah? I guess what? What? 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:15.880 What's that? Yeah? I didn't get that James Fincher had 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:21.840 the idea to bring the boys down there. Yes, yeah, yes? 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:25.960 Did you hear him when he suggested they go down 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:29.280 there and settle the score once and for all. Where 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:34.440 is he? Where is my son? Oh? Shit, now, Paul, 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:36.560 you know you can't be in here. What the fuck up? 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:39.600 This is between me and my boy? What did you say? 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.760 What did you tell off? When I ask you a question? 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:47.200 What did you say? Hi, Paul, that's domestic confused. I'm 0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:49.879 gonna rest your ass too. Now you better call the 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.040 fuck you better back the fuck off. You understand me. 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:56.760 This is between me and hand easy. I got a feeling. 0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:59.320 I got a feeling. We're on the same side here. Anyway, 0:24:59.640 --> 0:25:08.080 sit down out to speak a little louder Son, right 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:15.840 into the mic. There, go on, Son, unburden yourself James 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:23.600 and sure, absolutely and without any doubt, go on. Now 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:31.640 murder TKT and Thomas Hadley in those games. There you go, Son, 0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:41.920 You've done the right thing. You know that that wasn't 0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:45.080 the real story. Well it certainly helped get James Fincher 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:48.320 the death sense, didn't you, But it wasn't the truth 0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:52.879 that was coerced. Well I don't doubt that. What was 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:57.600 the truth? Then you might if I here record, I'd 0:25:57.680 --> 0:26:00.480 rather you not. This could really help your case. I 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:02.399 mean having a news story out there, you never know 0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:05.960 who might come for. Do you think that could work? 0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:11.520 Maybe that's what was the truth? What truth about James 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:14.600 Fincher telling the Head Brothers to meet him at the caves? 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:19.679 He wouldn't have off the record, Okay, off the record? 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.639 Why not? Because he wouldn't have. And why did you 0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:30.359 say he did? Just listen, he didn't kill him? Okay, 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:34.280 Well it sounds like you know something. No, Detective Smith 0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:37.280 knew something, which is why I'm here. He was onto 0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:40.760 something and this paper interviewed him before he disappeared. He 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:43.560 was following up on a lead, which I am kind 0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:46.200 of lead, that kind of lead that would exonerate James 0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:49.560 Fincher and then lo and behold he vanished, fucking gone. 0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:52.119 His car found somewhere just north of town. Did you 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:55.360 guys run a story on that. I'd have to look 0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:58.280 into the archives. Yeah, you do that. In dig up 0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:01.080 that interview with Smith and their information, you can about 0:27:01.080 --> 0:27:03.000 his involvement with to have the murder case from two 0:27:03.000 --> 0:27:05.080 thousand and seven, and I'll give you an interview, how 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:09.600 about that on the record, you bet? And while you're 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:11.800 at and find out where they found miss Carr, will you, 0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:21.680 you have myself. The truth is, I don't remember James 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:23.399 asking to have the brothers to meet him up at 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:26.560 the case. It doesn't make any sense. I knew Finch 0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:29.520 better than anyone in the world outside of Dina. Maybe 0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.399 he was my friend, him and Tyler and him asking 0:27:34.480 --> 0:27:38.080 Tacon and Thomas to go out to the caves alone. Nah, 0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:41.840 I don't think that's what happened that night. I never 0:27:41.880 --> 0:28:10.280 thought that's what happened. When you think of the fairytale 0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:15.560 version of Appalachia, my early childhood was pretty much. It 0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:18.960 would smoke and gray blue winter mornings, trumping with my 0:28:19.000 --> 0:28:21.240 father and the snow to see the icicles hanging off 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:25.400 the eaves of our little home. Apple picking and drives 0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.840 to look at leaves changing in the fall, Tomato sandwiches 0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:31.639 the swimming hole, and roadside boiled peanuts in the summer. 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:36.840 Dad worked for Hadley Pontiac. He tolerated the job because 0:28:36.840 --> 0:28:41.080 he loved my mother, and when I came along, I'd 0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:44.160 like to think he loved me too. I could never 0:28:44.200 --> 0:28:47.160 really tell. When I was young, he was a little 0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:52.840 hard on me. When I was eighteen, my mother died. 0:28:53.320 --> 0:29:02.160 Of course, everything changed. When my mother died a family 0:29:02.240 --> 0:29:04.720 is like a mobile danglet from the ceiling. It's a 0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:08.120 balancing act. You never have any idea how much a 0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:11.239 single person can hold together a family until they are 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:16.040 no longer in the position to do so. She got sick. 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:20.680 It was sudden stage four sophageal cancer. After the test, 0:29:20.760 --> 0:29:25.360 they gave her four months. She lasted three the end. 0:29:26.800 --> 0:29:30.680 It was horrible. When she went, she took the best 0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:33.320 parts of my father with her, and the Idella claugh 0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:42.080 we shared. Dad started drinking again. Of course, I know 0:29:42.120 --> 0:29:44.120 what you're thinking. You're thinking that because of his drink, 0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:47.120 and he faded into the background or neglected me. Nope, 0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:50.840 not my father. He wasn't a neglectful absent your father. 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:56.600 He watched me closer, became increasingly obsessed with my safety, 0:29:57.160 --> 0:30:00.680 micromanage my existence. Always wanted to know my eggs whereabouts, 0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:03.640 wanted precise details about where I was going and with whom. 0:30:03.960 --> 0:30:07.120 Wanted me home immediately after school every day, and would 0:30:07.160 --> 0:30:10.520 go bat shit when I didn't. He hated my friends, 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:13.560 called Tyler common trash, which of course made me want 0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:15.680 to spend more time away from home, more time in 0:30:15.720 --> 0:30:19.959 the woods with Tyler. I only wanted to escape my 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:23.080 childhood and the house that felt forever empty and haunted 0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:26.280 after my mother's death. And that's when he became violent 0:30:27.640 --> 0:30:32.040 when I started lying once I told him I was 0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:34.000 going with the debate team to a nearby town for 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:38.120 a tournament. Instead, I set out to the caves with Tyler. 0:30:39.080 --> 0:30:42.040 There were lights in the rear view following us out 0:30:42.040 --> 0:30:45.400 past the edge of town. I thought maybe Griff Washington 0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:48.600 was patrolling his property, maybe following us to make sure 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:51.560 we didn't trust pass. But when we pulled over for gas, 0:30:51.560 --> 0:30:55.080 hoping whoever was following us would pass on by, they didn't. 0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:59.160 They pulled in right behind us. Turned out as my father. 0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:04.560 He had been tailing us. He dragged me by the 0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:07.680 back of my neck out of Tyler's car and threw 0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:10.720 me into his. When we got back home, he locked 0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:13.640 me in the basement for twelve hours. It was only 0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:16.360 a crawl space with a small cinder block room for 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:20.120 the furnace. I remember while I was locked down there, 0:31:20.200 --> 0:31:22.600 I found an old chest filled with my mother's clothes. 0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:27.560 It was freezing, so I put him on. They almost 0:31:27.560 --> 0:31:32.760 fit an old sweater and that scarf she was knitting 0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:38.720 for me when she died. That red scarf. It was 0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:42.240 that same week I met Finch. I know it was 0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:44.880 that week because the first thing he said to me 0:31:44.960 --> 0:32:00.640 was that he liked my red scarf. Wilson repair he Tyler's. Julian, Well, oh, Julie, 0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:03.840 what a while with the pleasure. I know it's late. 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:06.240