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Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything. So don't wow, everybody see what? So what?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's us us on the radio on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. What's the name of our show? Our name

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Speaker 1: show was is Worst Year Ever? Welcome. I'm Cody Johnston,

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Stole third, I am also around and exist.

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Speaker 1: I am your your local daredevil reporter Robert Evans, who

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Speaker 1: has started this recording with an almost empty battery on

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Speaker 1: my recorder. So am I Am I braver than the troops? Yes,

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Speaker 1: obviously there's a fine line between bravery and insanity, and

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Speaker 1: you walk that line, Robert Daily, and I'm like, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: I like how right before this you were like, I

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Speaker 1: think my battery will last for their entire recording, But

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Speaker 1: then when we started, you were like, oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: it's almost dead. So we'll see what happens if we

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Speaker 1: exaggerating your danger is the better part of valor. And

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Speaker 1: so we are suddenly without Robert halfway through. You know, why, um,

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Speaker 1: what are we talking about this week? Guys? I know

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Speaker 1: the answer, but our listeners they might probably because it

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Speaker 1: probably says it on the title what are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: Because I wrote a random essay. I just flipped to

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Speaker 1: a page in the dictionary. I get towing that line

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Speaker 1: between bravery and insanity. I'm excited for an entire essay

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Speaker 1: on a word in the dictionary that's a cody. For

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Speaker 1: a while, was writing songs that way. I want to

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Speaker 1: click random on Wikipedia and then write a song about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but but today we are here to discuss Elizabeth Warren,

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Speaker 1: Paul Montgomery Warren and right. Uh and I'm I'm excited

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Speaker 1: about it. Good, you know what. Excellent, We're all excited

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Speaker 1: about it. We're um, we're all uh uh in this

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Speaker 1: episode secretly for in Warren. There it is. There's this logan.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was Warrenita Files Warren east Is born

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Speaker 1: to Warren. Yeah, there we go, there we go. Don't

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Speaker 1: no no notes in perfect Um, Well, I am going

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Speaker 1: to be starting with a bis Okay, So first I

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Speaker 1: was with a bit. See. At first I was irritated

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Speaker 1: for being interrupted, but that was worth it. And so

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Speaker 1: it's fine, everybody, everybody be okay with the fact that

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Speaker 1: he just a man, a white man, just interrupted the

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Speaker 1: only female host on this show. I have to say,

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Speaker 1: as a white man, I think the only time interrupting

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Speaker 1: is justified is when you have a joke as good

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Speaker 1: as that. I agree. I agree with you both completely.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth would be Elizabeth. All of these are good Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: You're welcome to it, and you're also welcome to born

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Speaker 1: to warrant you know, all of it whichever. Um. But Yes,

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Speaker 1: as I was saying, I am starting off this episode

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Speaker 1: talking about her early life because I think it comes

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Speaker 1: as no surprise to anybody in this room or our

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Speaker 1: listeners that I'm probably the one that's the most pro Warren.

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Speaker 1: So I thought that would remove some of the conflicts

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Speaker 1: of interest. Um, I'm still fair and balanced in all

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Speaker 1: of that. But yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna start off

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Speaker 1: by talking about her origin story. You guys ready for this,

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Speaker 1: I'm so ready. It's a story she reverences a lot

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Speaker 1: on the campaign trail. I'm sure a lot of you

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Speaker 1: know it or no pieces of it, but it is

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Speaker 1: important information in understanding her and where she comes from,

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Speaker 1: so we're covering it anyway. I will say that I'm

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Speaker 1: a little bit tired of her talking about it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And again this is coming from a fan of hers,

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Speaker 1: and it first it felt very organic and authentic. And

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Speaker 1: in many ways it still does because it is her story.

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Speaker 1: Authenticity and having a good story that grabs voters attention

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Speaker 1: is something that we all talk about as being important

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Speaker 1: for a candidate, and obviously that's what she's going for.

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Speaker 1: But at this point, every time she gets up on

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Speaker 1: stage and starts talking about her childhood, it seems a

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Speaker 1: bit canned and political now, partly because she uses the

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Speaker 1: exact same words verbatim every time. Um yeah, I've noticed

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Speaker 1: the same thing you have, And I've wondered how much

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Speaker 1: of it is, you know, in authenticity trying to like

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Speaker 1: force a message, and how much of it is just

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Speaker 1: like she's not a natural campaigner, that's not what she does.

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Speaker 1: She had a career for sixty years before or you know,

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Speaker 1: she was sixty years before she got old, before she

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Speaker 1: got into politics. Like maybe it's just weird for her,

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Speaker 1: and she does it. She's not great at it, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And so that's just something that I want everybody to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind as we're going through it and just

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Speaker 1: thinking about also, you know, a reminder that she is

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Speaker 1: a politician. Like it's very easy or there's an instinct

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Speaker 1: for us, especially in me, I I see it to

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Speaker 1: want to put our preferred candidate on a pedestal. But

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, she's running for president,

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Speaker 1: and there's something inherently wrong with anybody. Even the only

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Speaker 1: pure candidate in this race is that one admiral that

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Speaker 1: was apparently running a dropt death this week. Arou um

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Speaker 1: the guy whose name is the name you know, the name,

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Speaker 1: God bless you, random admiral. Okay. So, Elizabeth was born

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Speaker 1: in Oklahoma City, in which makes her seventy years old.

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Speaker 1: She was the fourth child in a lower middle class family.

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Speaker 1: Her mother was a stay at home mom. According to Warren,

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Speaker 1: the family quote lived on the ragged edge of the

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Speaker 1: middle class. And we didn't have much money, but like

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Speaker 1: millions of other families, we got by. But that all

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Speaker 1: changed at the age of twelve when her father had

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Speaker 1: a heart attack, putting her family in economic peril due

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Speaker 1: to medical bills and a loss of income. Uh And

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Speaker 1: they were about to lose their house, and her mother

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Speaker 1: had to start working for the very first time in

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Speaker 1: her life. Uh. Quote. One day I walked into my

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Speaker 1: mother's room and found her crying. She said, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to lose this house. She wiped her eyes, blew

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Speaker 1: her nose and pulled on her best dress, the one

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Speaker 1: she wore the funerals and graduations. At fifty years old,

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Speaker 1: she walked down the street and got her first paying job,

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Speaker 1: answering the phones at Sears. That minimum wage job saved

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Speaker 1: our home and my mother saved our family. This is

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Speaker 1: one of those things that she says verbatim over and

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Speaker 1: over again. I was, I, I've seen her say it

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Speaker 1: at a rally. I've seen it printed in many different

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Speaker 1: articles from different events. Right, I was wondering, like, where

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Speaker 1: do you get that quote exactly like which? Over again?

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Speaker 1: I I saw her say it verbatim one you know,

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Speaker 1: and this is weird. We talked in the last episode

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Speaker 1: about the things about Bernie economic anxiety that I identified with.

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Speaker 1: I also weirdly identify with this because I too grew

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Speaker 1: up in Oklahoma and had a mom who, to help

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Speaker 1: support the family had to work at Sears Socific. But

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Speaker 1: like Warren, to be fair, Warren talks about this a lot,

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Speaker 1: but she also talks about it in context of something

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Speaker 1: that she sees wrong now, which is that people used

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Speaker 1: to be able to have a normal job and it

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Speaker 1: provided an actual livable wage. She also started waiting tables

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Speaker 1: at the age of thirteen at her aunt's restaurant to

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Speaker 1: help make ends meet. Um. From the time Elizabeth was

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Speaker 1: in second grade, she wanted to be a teacher, but

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Speaker 1: her family didn't have money for college. Actually, in her

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Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen book, Warren wrote about an argument she

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Speaker 1: had with her mother of her Warren's chances that getting

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Speaker 1: into college that became so heated that her mom slapped her.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure that a lot of people have can

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Speaker 1: slap by their mom. But yeah, I mean, that's another

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Speaker 1: thing I can share with Elizabeth Warren. She's relatable. Um,

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Speaker 1: I I just share that because Warren's it's just being

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Speaker 1: keep in mind, Warren talks about her mother a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's she's obviously very formative, um, but she also obviously

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Speaker 1: had a very contentious relationship. So as I was doing

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Speaker 1: this research, it just occurred to me, like, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to, you know, cast dispersions or whatever, but you know,

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Speaker 1: there might be an element of retroactively spinning things in

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Speaker 1: a certain way for the purposes of being political. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but anyway, her mom pops up in her

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Speaker 1: story a lot. Anyway, despite that, Elizabeth ended up earning

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Speaker 1: a debate scholarship when she was sixteen. I mean, of

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Speaker 1: course she did. Have you seen that woman up on

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Speaker 1: a debate stage. She's wonderful. Um. And she ended up

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Speaker 1: attending George Washington University. UM. Elizabeth planned to follow her

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Speaker 1: lifelong dream and become a teacher, but left university after

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Speaker 1: only two years to marry her high school sweetheart, Jim Warren.

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Speaker 1: The couple moved to Houston, where she enrolled in the

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Speaker 1: University of Houston, a commuter college that costs fifty dollars

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Speaker 1: a semester. She loves to include that detail literally every

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Speaker 1: time she talks about this A good detail. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: she graduated in nineteen seventy with a degree in speech

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Speaker 1: pathology and audiology. Uh. And it was then, that's so weird.

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Speaker 1: That's my mom's got a degree this. Yeah. And I

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Speaker 1: also taught special led for exactly a year like Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: war So, I think that we're winning Robert over today.

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Speaker 1: I know who he's Elizabeth with Elizabeth. Yeah, speaking of

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Speaker 1: special education, it was then that she started teaching children

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Speaker 1: with special needs at a public elementary school, and she

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Speaker 1: loved it. However, at two after her daughter Amelia was born,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth found out that she no longer had a job

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Speaker 1: when she was ready to come back from maternity leave.

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Speaker 1: Uh soul for two years. She became a stay at

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Speaker 1: home mom, but obviously it wasn't the life that she

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Speaker 1: wanted for herself. She quote tried desperately to be a

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Speaker 1: good wife and mother, even though she quote desperately wanted

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Speaker 1: something more. So when Amelia turned to Elizabeth rolled in

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Speaker 1: Rutgers law school. I mean on her website she just

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Speaker 1: calls at a public college that costs fifty a semester um,

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Speaker 1: but it was Rutgers uh. And this time was very

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Speaker 1: formative her formative for her in many ways. I mean nomies,

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Speaker 1: she's getting a law degree, she's got children, but specifically

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Speaker 1: the struggle of balancing motherhood and a career. It's another

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Speaker 1: thing that she discusses a lot, specifically the lack of

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Speaker 1: affordable daycare options for mothers and families. And you can

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Speaker 1: see that reflected in um, you know, her campaign platform.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, three years later, she graduates from law school.

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Speaker 1: At that point, she was pregnant with her son, Alex,

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Speaker 1: and she learned very quickly that it's difficult to find

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Speaker 1: employment in a law firm when you're pregnant, which is shocking, right,

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Speaker 1: I think, I think, I think, I think pregers. You're right,

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Speaker 1: that is when you're prey. Go god, damn it. Whole

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Speaker 1: other thing. Um, so okay, she couldn't find a job,

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Speaker 1: so for a short period of time, she simply practiced

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Speaker 1: law out of her living room. She popped to sign

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Speaker 1: up in the window and like made a made a

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Speaker 1: home office. But after a couple of years, she returned

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Speaker 1: to her first love, teaching, when Elizabeth became a law

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Speaker 1: press professor for more than thirty years, teaching at Rutgers,

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Speaker 1: University of Houston, University of Texas, Austin, University of Michigan,

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Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania, and Harvard University. But that stuff that

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Speaker 1: Robert is going to go into a bit more detail.

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Speaker 1: I hope she taught at Harvard. I hope so too.

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Speaker 1: That'd be so cute, all these full circle moments. But

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Speaker 1: then in nine Warren and her husband got divorced. She

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Speaker 1: then remarried to her current husband, Bruce, a couple of

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Speaker 1: years later. Um. When talking about her divorce, Warren cites

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Speaker 1: the fact that she changed over the years to become

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Speaker 1: more independent, but he wanted a traditional wife, so she

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Speaker 1: asked if he wanted a divorce and he was like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: do But this apparently caused another rift between her and

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Speaker 1: her mother, who thought that Elizabeth should be married and

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Speaker 1: provided for um. There is actually a tweet being circulated

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Speaker 1: uh over this weekend on December one about a woman

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Speaker 1: at an event who asked Elizabeth a very personal question.

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Speaker 1: She asked if she ever had had someone in her

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Speaker 1: life but she looked up to who didn't accept her,

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Speaker 1: and Elizabeth became visibly choked up and replied, my mother, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, and held back to years talking about her

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Speaker 1: mother's disappointment when she couldn't make her marriage work. Quote.

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Speaker 1: My mother and I had very different views on how

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Speaker 1: to build a future. She wanted me to marry well,

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Speaker 1: and I really tried, and it just didn't work out.

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Speaker 1: And there came a day when I had to call

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Speaker 1: her and say this is over. I can't make it work.

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Speaker 1: And I heard the disappointment in her voice. I knew

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Speaker 1: how she felt about it. And sometimes you just got

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Speaker 1: to do what's right inside and hope that maybe the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world will come around to it. And

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Speaker 1: maybe they will, and maybe they won't. But the truth is,

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Speaker 1: you've got to take care of yourself first. And then

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Speaker 1: she said, give me a hug, and they had an

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Speaker 1: emotional hug. I include this well, first of all, to

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Speaker 1: illustrate what I have just talked about about the mother,

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Speaker 1: her relationship with her mother. But I don't include this

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Speaker 1: because it's political per se or appoints to anything specific

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Speaker 1: in her platform. But I included it because it does

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Speaker 1: encapsulate the authenticity that people feel from her. Obviously, I've

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Speaker 1: been criticizing how she's been falling into a kind of

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Speaker 1: a canned performance sometimes, but this specifically is when she shines.

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Speaker 1: When she's thrown a surprise question. She always answers authentically

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Speaker 1: and does so with a humanity that we don't see

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Speaker 1: from most politicians, and it's something that really is compelling

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Speaker 1: to me. I do believe her to be an inherently

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Speaker 1: good person. Um and again I don't get that from

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Speaker 1: all the candidates. Some of that I think has to

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Speaker 1: do with the fact that she is a politician. Now

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Speaker 1: she you know, you could say maybe this was her

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Speaker 1: plan from the beginning, but I don't. I really don't

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Speaker 1: get that from someone who didn't in her politics until she's,

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Speaker 1: what's sixty years old. She had not I mean, we'll

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Speaker 1: cover this in my bid, but she had an almost

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Speaker 1: absurdly full career as an academic before she jumped into politics.

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Speaker 1: So she is, unlike a lot of these people, a

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Speaker 1: human being. I would like like Bernie. The thing that

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Speaker 1: I dislike about him the most is that he's been

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Speaker 1: never been anything but a politician. And part of why

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Speaker 1: I give him a little bit of a pass on

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Speaker 1: that is he's more of kind of a revolutionary in

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Speaker 1: that vein um. So he's not you know, he's never

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Speaker 1: just been about the power. He as specific things he

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Speaker 1: wants to do, and I agree with those things, so

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Speaker 1: I'm okay with him. But he has you know, it's

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Speaker 1: all he's ever done that's meaningful. And Budajig has done

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Speaker 1: stuff outside of politics, but it was all just to

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Speaker 1: get into politics. Biden's been politics forever. You know. I

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Speaker 1: do like that she came out of the womb wanting

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Speaker 1: to be a politician. Yeah, she clearly accomplished like enough

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Speaker 1: goals that if she had that's if her academic career

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Speaker 1: is all she'd ever done, she would be an extremely

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Speaker 1: accomplished persian person. And then she got into politics. I

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Speaker 1: like that, all right. I'm about to hand this off

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Speaker 1: to Robert in a second. But I would be remiss

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Speaker 1: if I talked about Elizabeth Warren and didn't discuss the

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Speaker 1: Native American controversy. As I'm sure most of you already know,

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Speaker 1: Warren has long claim to have Native American blood in

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Speaker 1: her lineage. Um, I've seen different numbers on this and

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Speaker 1: different articles, but her mother was something like one thirty

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Speaker 1: two Cherokee, and according to Warren, she grew up in

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Speaker 1: a household where her Indian heritage was celebrated. Quote, these

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Speaker 1: are my family stories. I've lived in a family that

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Speaker 1: has talked about Native Americans, talked about tribes since I

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Speaker 1: was a little girl. I still have a picture on

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Speaker 1: my mantle, and it's a picture of my mother had

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Speaker 1: before that, a picture of my grandfather. And my aunt

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Speaker 1: b has walked by that picture at least a thousand

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Speaker 1: times and remarked that he her father, my papa had

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Speaker 1: high cheekbones like all of the Indians do, because that

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Speaker 1: is how we saw it. And your mother got those

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Speaker 1: same great cheekbones, and I didn't. She thought that was

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Speaker 1: the bad deal she'd gotten in life. Look Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: a really shaky grounding, but you know it's it's super shaky,

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Speaker 1: and I have nothing but criticism for how she's handled

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Speaker 1: this in the modern era. That said, again, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in the the exact same almost part of the world.

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Speaker 1: I was in Idabelle, not Oklahoma City, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: not that far away. The culture is very much the same.

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Speaker 1: And I had family stories about my uncle who was,

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Speaker 1: you know, one sixteenth Cherokee or something like that. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if he actually is, but growing up we

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Speaker 1: always talked about it. And I do not know a

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Speaker 1: single white family that I grew up around her new

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Speaker 1: in Oklahoma who did not have some family lore about

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Speaker 1: Native American heritage. Totally. Yes, bogus usually, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: a thing. It's the thing in Oklahoma, totally, and I

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Speaker 1: believe that. And this is a different time, sure, all

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Speaker 1: of that stuff, and we'll dig into this a little

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Speaker 1: born in a second. But anyway, she used this heritage

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Speaker 1: of story to help with certain things like college admissions

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Speaker 1: and jobs. For years she listened herself as Native American

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Speaker 1: and a directory of law professors, and she was literally

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Speaker 1: hired at Harvard as a diversity higher. Apparently at the time,

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Speaker 1: Harvard had been subject of discrimination lawsuit with its hiring practices,

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Speaker 1: and the school was openly trying to hire women and

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Speaker 1: people of color, you know. And and and I think there's

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Speaker 1: some retroactive like no, no, no no. Uh. And obviously

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Speaker 1: she deserves the job, and she's qualified, and she had

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Speaker 1: a long career as a professor, so I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to throw that under the bus. But there are are

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Speaker 1: documented moments when a spokes spokespeople for the university referred

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Speaker 1: to Warren as a Native American professor or her Harvard's

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Speaker 1: first woman of color, and so like, look, I don't

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Speaker 1: have a doubt that she believed that she has this heritage, uh,

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Speaker 1: in in her life. You know. I do have a

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Speaker 1: problem with people claiming when a minority status when they

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Speaker 1: don't actually have it. I mean, like you see it

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Speaker 1: all the time in Hollywood, people trying to pass as

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Speaker 1: a diversity higher. But she didn't grow up as a

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Speaker 1: Native American. She went through a lot of hardships to

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Speaker 1: get where she is now. But it's very different than

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Speaker 1: actually growing up as a Native American and bring those

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Speaker 1: experiences to the table. And you have to know that

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Speaker 1: she knew that, you know, on some level, and all

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Speaker 1: the like all the quotes of like where they're saying

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Speaker 1: like first Native American thing, like she knew about that

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Speaker 1: stuff about that, and she might see herself as that,

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Speaker 1: but she did not grow She does not have a

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Speaker 1: Native American background. One thing I do think needs to

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Speaker 1: be did you come across the Boston Globe analysis of

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Speaker 1: her what her heritage would impact it had on her

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Speaker 1: her hiring at Harvard? No, I didn't see that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they I'm just going to read a quote from an article.

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Speaker 1: They did not. They conducted the most extensive investigation into

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Speaker 1: what impact, if any, had had during her time at

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Speaker 1: Harvard UM. And I'm just going to um I'll quote

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Speaker 1: a couple of paragraphs from that. Real quickly, the Globe

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Speaker 1: found clear evidence and documents and interviews that her claimed

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Speaker 1: to Native American ethnicity was never considered by the Harvard

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Speaker 1: law faculty, which voted resoundingly to hire her, by or

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Speaker 1: by those who hired her to four prior positions at

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Speaker 1: other law school um. The Globe examined hundreds of documents,

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Speaker 1: many of them never before available, and reached out to

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Speaker 1: all fifty two of the law professors who are still

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Speaker 1: living and were eligible to be in that Pound Hall

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Speaker 1: room at Harvard Law School, which is where they've voted

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Speaker 1: to hire her summer warrants allies. Others are not. Thirty

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Speaker 1: one agreed to talk to the Globe, including the law

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Speaker 1: professor who was at the time in charge of recruiting

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Speaker 1: minority faculty. Most said they were unaware of her claims

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Speaker 1: to Native American heritage, and all but one of the

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Speaker 1: thirty one said those claims were not discussed as part

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Speaker 1: of her higher One professor told the Globe he is

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Speaker 1: unsure of whether her heritage came up, but is certain

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Speaker 1: that if it did, it had no bearing on his

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Speaker 1: vote on Warren's appointment. Well, that's good, that's great. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the stuff that I've seen. I think that that's

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Speaker 1: probably true. But I think that there are some people,

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Speaker 1: there might have been some people that used her status

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Speaker 1: in her listing as that spin it in some capacities

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Speaker 1: and just and I'm sure she did unlike a social capacity. Yeah. Um. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: obviously her this has circled her entire political career, this controversy. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then we get to last year and she decides

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Speaker 1: to put the whole thing to bed and does the

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Speaker 1: DNA test at the urging apparently of John Lovett. This

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Speaker 1: is something that Cody told me. Yeah, he suggested it

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Speaker 1: to her when she was on the It was like,

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Speaker 1: why why don't you do this? Why don't you just

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Speaker 1: do this and put it to bed. It's incredibly embarrassing

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Speaker 1: because it turns out she's got like one one. I

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Speaker 1: can't even read this percentage. It's nothing, basically nothing. It's

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Speaker 1: basically comparable to what everybody in America has. The American

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Speaker 1: It's like like like the Biden, you know, biting his

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Speaker 1: wife's finger thing is like if you watch the context

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Speaker 1: of the video, it's not as silly as it looks

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Speaker 1: in the screen grabs. Actually, this is silly and adorable. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's it's like endearing and stuff like he's

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Speaker 1: not it's not being he's not it's like evidence of

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Speaker 1: his elderly dementia or whatever. Um. This Elizabeth Warren blood

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Speaker 1: testing thing is may be the dumbest single move one

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Speaker 1: of the candidates has pulled in this election. And it's

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Speaker 1: just as bad in context as it seems. Like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it feels like this conversation has receded from the

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Speaker 1: front lines. Uh, you know, and I was surprised at

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Speaker 1: that She's been surging at times. Maybe not right now,

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Speaker 1: but you better believe if she gets the nomination, this

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Speaker 1: is going to be a huge talking point. And so

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Speaker 1: it's an important thing for us to remember and keep

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Speaker 1: in mind and even figure out. Like I, I just

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Speaker 1: don't think she has yet figured out how to talk

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Speaker 1: about it in a way that like really addresses all

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Speaker 1: of these issues well. And like when you think about,

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Speaker 1: like thinking about the worst year ever, like it's going

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Speaker 1: to be. She's spoken about it, but here's one of

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Speaker 1: the quotes that she said on it. Like anyone who's

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Speaker 1: been being honest with themselves, I know that I have

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Speaker 1: made mistakes, and I'm sorry for the harm I caused.

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Speaker 1: I've listened and I've learned a lot, and I'm grateful

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Speaker 1: for the many conversation that we've had together. It's a

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Speaker 1: great honor to be able to partner with Indian country,

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Speaker 1: and that's what I've tried to do as a senator,

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Speaker 1: and that's what I promise I will do as President

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Speaker 1: of the United States of America. And to be fair,

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Speaker 1: she has, you know, come up with a series of

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Speaker 1: plans to help the Native American community, you know, with

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Speaker 1: different infrastructure and education, healthcare, all of that, And that's great.

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Speaker 1: This is a community that's grotesquely ignored and overlooked, and

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Speaker 1: I think that I can't speak for them. Uh, certainly

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Speaker 1: some people have come around on that, um, but again

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Speaker 1: it's the general population that I'm worried about. And again,

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Speaker 1: how this can be weaponized in a general election. It's

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Speaker 1: going to be weaponized in the grossest possible ways. And

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Speaker 1: that's just if she's the candidate. That's something we'll all

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Speaker 1: have to deal with. Ye. All right, Well, this is

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Speaker 1: a great time for us to take a quick break

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Speaker 1: for you know, products and services. Speaking of cultural appropriation,

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Speaker 1: doesn't appropriate from cultures. I'll take your word for that.

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Speaker 1: Products together, everything, all right, we're back. Um. Katie just

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Speaker 1: did her great uh right up and in the coverage

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Speaker 1: of of e war Um, which is actually a pretty

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Speaker 1: cool electronic Yeah, yep, yep, that's what Elizabeth Warren means. Um.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm gonna I'm gonna plunge head first into

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Speaker 1: her next dealon the jig Um. Before I get into that,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about something. Yeah, um,

428
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about something that

429
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: I don't have like written up in the script, but

430
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: it's something I've seen a lot of leftists on Twitter

431
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: drag Warren for, which is her her background as a

432
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: Republican for most of her life and in fact, a

433
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: very conservative Republican for most of her life. Um, she

434
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 1: consistently refuses to say whether or not she voted for

435
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan. Um. She says even her husband doesn't know,

436
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: and she sleeps with him every night. UM. That said,

437
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: I have no doubt in my mind that she voted

438
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: for wrong and Um, and you know, Reagan was a

439
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,239
Speaker 1: fucking monster who did horrific things to this country and

440
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: it's bad to have voted for him. That said, he

441
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: won overwhelmingly. And also, like I talk a lot about

442
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: I talked a lot about the potential of the Second

443
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: American Civil War, And one thing that will make it

444
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: impossible to not have one is if people can't overcome

445
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: their backgrounds and regressive conservative politics and have an incredibly

446
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: progressive career as both an academic uh and a consumer

447
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: advocate and a politician. Um. Like, if if we can't

448
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: let people do that, we're kind of fucked so yeah,

449
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: she like And I also think it's not necessarily a

450
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: negative that she knows how to talk to conservatives. And

451
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that is a the

452
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: evidence that she's good at it is how like I

453
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: agree personally more with with Bernie Sanders is wealth re

454
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: distribution plan because it's much more um uh, significantly, it's

455
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: much more. It taxes much more heavily people with extreme wealth.

456
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: But Warren's polls incredibly well. I think something like fifty

457
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: or more of Republicans support her her attacks on the

458
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: extremely wealthy. And I think the reason that that plan,

459
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: her wealth redistribution plan, pulls better than any wealth redistribution

460
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 1: plan has ever pulled in the history of modern American politics,

461
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: is because she knows how to present things to conservatives. Um.

462
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: And I think that's not a negative. Um So that's

463
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: my take on the matter as someone else who was

464
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: a very conservative uh person at one point in their life.

465
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: Um yeah, so uh. Career wise, Elizabeth Warren has a

466
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: habit of joining educational institutions in the throes of sudden change.

467
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: In nineteen she was hired by her alma mater, the

468
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: University of Houston, and as a professor Now, at that point,

469
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: the University of Houston had only a single tinured professor.

470
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: Enrollment by women was surging, though, and the school's gender

471
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: and balance among the faculty had become a major issue. Uh.

472
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: In a Washington Post article I read on the matter,

473
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: the author claims that, quote, Houston is where Liz Warren

474
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: became Elizabeth Warren. And there are a few reasons to

475
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: think this. One is that at the time, she was

476
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: a twenty nine year old, fresh faced law grad from Rutgers.

477
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: Now that might sound impressive to you, because Rutgers is

478
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: a pretty good college from what I hear, But for

479
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: reasons known only to hoity toity h law people, Rutgers

480
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 1: was considered a real ship school. Really like yeah, like

481
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: like kind of just it's not good. Like the law

482
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: school particularly is not good. Um. Every article I find

483
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: about this period in her life notes that like people

484
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 1: like look down on her and it was considered kind

485
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: of amazing that she'd gotten hired by the University of

486
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: Houston because she only had a Rutgers degree. Well that's

487
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: probably why it only caused semester. Yeah, I'm just saying

488
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: Rutgers is garbage, terrible school. And if you listen and

489
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: are from Rutgers. We don't want you listening to Yeah,

490
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: Rgers is and Dan O'Brien is a terrible lawyer, so

491
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: James O'Keefe Yeah, also that lawyer. Now. Uh, many people

492
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: who are actually fine with the idea of a woman

493
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: professor at the University of Houston balked at the idea

494
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: of Warren being hired just because of her alma mater.

495
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: So that's fun. Um. Now. One person who did believe

496
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: in Elizabeth Warren as a professor of law was Eugene Smith,

497
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: professor at the university and the head of the You

498
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: of Houston's hiring committee. Now, Eugene Smith was a legendary asshole.

499
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: H He had suffered from polio as a child, and

500
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: he lived with post polio syndrome that by the late

501
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies made it difficult for him to drive or

502
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: live any kind of a normal life. He sat down

503
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: for Elizabeth Warren for dinner before hiring her, and according

504
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: to Smith, he ordered a steak, which he had trouble

505
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: cutting up because his hand ends in arms and stuff

506
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: weren't working. Uh. He looked up angrily at Liz and

507
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: basically asked like why aren't you helping? UM? And it

508
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: seems like this was sort of a a test by

509
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: him to see how she'd respond, and Elizabeth responded and

510
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: he said, basically he was like, why aren't you helping?

511
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: Don't you know I have polio? UM? And his test

512
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: was kind of see how she'd respond, And Elizabeth responded

513
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: by saying, I figured you knew you had polio when

514
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: you ordered the steak UM. So he was a became

515
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: a huge advocate for her and pushed for her to

516
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: be hired, and she in fact was UM. She spent

517
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: five years in Houston, which is by my account, about

518
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: fifteen years too long to spend in Houston. UM. She

519
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: achieved tenure there in nineteen eighty one and bounced around

520
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 1: as a visiting professor for the University of Texas at

521
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: Austin and a visiting professor at the University of Michigan.

522
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: She also taught Sunday school. UM. She was eventually hired

523
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: as a full professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law

524
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: School in nineteen eighties seven and made an endowed chair

525
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen nineties. So she gets tenure at the University

526
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: of Houston, gets a teaching jobs at a number of

527
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 1: other universities, then gets hired as a full professor at

528
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: a completely different college and made an endowed chair of

529
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,239
Speaker 1: that university in nineteen ninety after three years there. This is,

530
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: in academic terms, a really meteoric rise. Like this doesn't

531
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: really happen often to people. It was easier to get

532
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: tenure back then, but even so, like this is sort

533
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: of evidence that she was seen by all of her

534
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: colleagues and management at the administration at the universities as

535
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: being an exceptional professor. Now, she had a pattern of

536
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: bouncing around a lot of different law schools and achieving

537
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: prestigious positions in them very rapidly. And I'm not going

538
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: to go through all of the different chairships and stuff

539
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: she got. There's a lot um By nineteen ninety two,

540
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: she attracted the eyes of the Harvard Faculty Hiring Board um. Now,

541
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two, there were only five women professors

542
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: with tenure at Harvard Law School. This had led to

543
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: widespread protest among the students, who complained that the number

544
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: of women on the faculty had declined in the early

545
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. The year Warrant was hired, students pastor at

546
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: a pamphlet that noted net change in female faculty since

547
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety negative two. This figure will improve to negative

548
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: one if Elizabeth Warren accepts a position here. So, like

549
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: with her time in Houston, she kind of comes into

550
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: this university when it does not have a great reputation

551
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: for hiring women. UM. So she arrived as a visiting

552
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: professor and very quickly endeared herself to students and faculty.

553
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: Professor Richard Fallon Junior credits here with playing a major

554
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: role in helping to move Harvard to a place where

555
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: it hired more female faculty and had a more diverse

556
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: student body. Her students are almost universal and praising her

557
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: as an educator. She became particularly renowned for practicing the

558
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: Socratic method in a way that basically no teachers do anymore. Um.

559
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: One of the few exceptions was Alana Kagan when she

560
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: taught at Harvard, who's now on the Supreme Court. UM. Now,

561
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: Warren was famous for making a habit of calling on

562
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: every single student in the class regularly, uh and having

563
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: her assistance keep track of which students had not spoken

564
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: enough so that she could be sure to talk to

565
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: everybody consistently laptops were banned in her class, not to

566
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: stop people from browsing on the internet using Facebook, but

567
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: actually to stop people from taking notes. She was afraid

568
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: that if students were busy taking notes, it would like

569
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: distract from the discussion the socratic dialogue that she wanted

570
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: to have with her students. So her goal was to

571
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: engage them and talk with them rather than to just

572
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: lecture to them. And this is part of why she

573
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: was such a yeah, such a prominent tea, or such

574
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: a respected teacher. One of her students from the fall

575
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: of nine described her class as a cold intellectual shower

576
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning. There are lots of people

577
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: who are that demanding and just kind of mean about it.

578
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: The trick is to be that demanding and still have

579
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: your students love you, which Warren seemed to be really

580
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,479
Speaker 1: good at. Um. She was hard, but fair and really

581
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: like people. Again, consistently in interviews with the whole like,

582
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: you know, student after student after student, a lot of

583
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: them will say that like Warren was the teacher whose

584
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: approval U crave the most. Um, so that's something yeah, yeah, yeah,

585
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: And this all sounds like like her class sounds like

586
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: a nightmare. To me because I hated college and I

587
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: liked sitting on my laptop and not doing anything. But

588
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: I'm the kind of person who shouldn't have been in college,

589
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: So it sounds actually was your best case scenario for

590
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: getting your money's worth out of a class. At Harvard Um,

591
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: she was very well regarded and was widely seen as

592
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: one of the most well loved professors on campus. Harvard

593
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: held annual mock auditions to raise money for charity, and

594
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: Professor Warren was frequently the highest bid member of the faculty.

595
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: She would usually promise to tell students mothers nice things

596
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: about them, so yeah now. Among other things, Elizabeth Warren

597
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: was noted for providing voluminous feedback, sometimes several pages of

598
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: it two questions, often only a few paragraphs in length.

599
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: Every report you'll read about her class makes it clear

600
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,239
Speaker 1: that it was really truly, deeply important for her for

601
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: her students to learn not just wrote answers, but a

602
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: meaningful understanding of how the law operates. UH. Eugene Smith,

603
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: the hiring committee head at the University of Houston, that

604
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: that legendary asshole we talked about earlier, the guy who

605
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: helped jump start her career by hiring her, even when

606
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: it was kind of a risky decision. Well, that guy died, uh.

607
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,719
Speaker 1: He asked Elizabeth Warre to speak at his funeral, and

608
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: what came next shocked almost everybody. I'm gonna quote from

609
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: a Washington Post write up on the matter now and again.

610
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: This is in nineteen seven. With a smile on her

611
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: face and humor in her voice, Warren described how Smith

612
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: had invited her to his office one day, just a

613
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: few months after she had been hired. He shut the

614
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: door and lunged for her, she said, and as she protested,

615
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: he chased her around his desk before she was able

616
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: to escape out the door. Everyone was slack jawed, required,

617
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: recalled John Mixon, a retired University of Houston professor who

618
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: had been close friends with Smith and Warren. Among those listening,

619
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: Smith's ex wife and his three adult sons, and the pews,

620
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: people exchanged glances. Some at you age disliked Smith. He

621
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: kept a bottle of Scotch in his desk and often

622
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: told dirty jokes. One colleague remembered later, but mean Gene,

623
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: as he was knowed, was generally regarded as harmless. Diagnosed

624
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: with post polio syndrome, Smith walked walked, hunched over his arms,

625
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: increasingly useless as he aged. Some wondered whether it was

626
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: physically possible for Smith to have done what Warren described

627
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: to have this image of him chasing her around the desk.

628
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: It was just comical. And she told the story without

629
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: rancor and recalled, now, that's disturbing. She clearly frames it

630
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: as like a humorous moment, but like, that's not a

631
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 1: good thing for your boss to do to you. Yeah, yeah,

632
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: And when Warren had, like Warren back at the time,

633
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: asked Mixing for advice on how to deal with the matter,

634
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: and he'd urged her to say nothing because she was

635
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: new to the field and he was an established mean

636
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: Gene was an established professor. Now this is horrible and

637
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: fucked up, um, but you know, Elizabeth took his advice,

638
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: and if we're all honest, his advice was probably the

639
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: best path for her to take in order to have

640
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: a career in the field. She loved. This was, you know,

641
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: n not a time in which fighting the establishment in

642
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: this way probably would have worked. Like, that's fucked up,

643
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: but that's the way it is, um or with the

644
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: way it was, you know, um, Now in the wake

645
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: of the Me Too movement, Warren made a point of

646
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: telling her story, and a couple of interviews, far right

647
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: shit rags like The Washington Times lambasted her for being

648
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: inconsistent with her recollection of events. This is mainly due

649
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: to the fact that when other people like Mixing had

650
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: written about Warren's recollections about Smith uh he Like, they

651
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: made it seem distinctly lighthearted. Mixing had written in a

652
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: biography of mean gene quote jeans chasing her around the

653
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: desk and an uncontrolled lust while she laughed equally uncontrolled

654
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: as she avoided his crab like grasp so Like. She

655
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: tells it as like a funny moment at his funeral,

656
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: and when it gets written up by her colleagues, they

657
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: write the story up as a funny anecdote about this

658
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: guy um So. The Washington Time says that her bringing

659
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: this up as part of the meto movement is inconsistent

660
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: with the way it was recalled earlier. Um And I'm

661
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: gonna quote from how she talked about it on Meet

662
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: the Press in two thousand and seventeen, quote, he slammed

663
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: the door and lunged for me. It was like a

664
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: bad cartoon. He's chasing me around the desk, trying to

665
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: get his hands on me, and I kept saying, you

666
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: don't want to do this, you don't want to do this.

667
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: I have little children at home, Please don't do this,

668
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: and trying to talk calmly. And at the same time,

669
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: what was flickering through my brain is if he gets

670
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: hold of me, I'm going to punch him right in

671
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: the face. So, yeah, that's a thing. I hate that story.

672
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: I don't like it. I hate even more than the

673
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: story the way the Washington Times dealt with it. It's

674
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: pretty um to just sort of frame it like that

675
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: as if as if they care. That's kind of a

676
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: tactic they often, like organizations like that often do where

677
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: it's like, actually, she changed your mind for this, like

678
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: you don't care, you don't care about this story. Yeah. Well,

679
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's two things are possible. It

680
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: is possible that number one, you know, uh, Elizabeth Warren

681
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: grew up in the fifties and sixties in the Deep South. Uh,

682
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess this isn't the worst male related interaction

683
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: she had, So it's entirely possible that at the time,

684
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: because this guy was too weak and too old and

685
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: and kind of a friend outside of this that she

686
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: did take it in a more lighthearted fashion, um, and

687
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: recall it that way, partially a self defense, partially because

688
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: there's a you know, it would have been way worse

689
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: obviously been like yeah, yeah, um, And it's also possible

690
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: that it was still really uncomfortable and something that you know,

691
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: gave her doubts about her career and her worth. And

692
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: that was also just like you know, it wasn't as

693
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: it's not obviously the worst case scenario for sexual harassment,

694
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: but it's bad. It's a shitty thing she had to

695
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: deal with, and it was totally appropriate, in my opinion,

696
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: for her to bring it up as part of the

697
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: me too movement when that all hit you know, Um,

698
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: you can say it would have been you know, a

699
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 1: more courageous moment like choice for her to like take

700
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: a stand at the time and like you know, try

701
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 1: to get this guy ousted, but probably well, it would

702
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: have been really point document to her career. Yeah, and

703
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna you know, anyone who did stand up

704
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen and that sort of situation, I will definitely

705
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 1: praise extra for their courage. But I'm not going to

706
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: say that there's anything wrong with the way she handled

707
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: that or the way she you know, heard the decision

708
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: she made. You know, she was put in an impossible

709
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: position by an asshole, and she didn't made the best

710
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: of it. As a professor at Harvard, Elizabeth Warren was

711
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: pretty consistently praised for keeping her personal politics out of

712
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: the classroom. The morning after the two thousand election, she

713
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: did discuss the Bushcore stalemate with her bankruptcy class, but

714
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: students in that class recalled that she never gave any

715
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: indication as to who she supported. This is pretty consistent

716
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: among decades worth of reports from her students. Liz Warren

717
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 1: was not a professor who talked politics um. She did

718
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: spend a huge amount of time researching the causes of

719
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,479
Speaker 1: bankruptcy and economic collapse, though among American families for most

720
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 1: of her career it was assumed that bankruptcy was usually

721
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: the result of irresponsible for personal finance choices. In the

722
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: two thousand and four book Warren wrote wrote with her

723
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,720
Speaker 1: daughter Amelia Tiagi, the two income Trap. While middle class

724
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 1: mothers and fathers are going broke, She pointed out that

725
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: workers made success significantly less than their counterparts thirty years

726
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: ago and made and this was, you know, kind of

727
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: um not something that was being commonly discussed at the time.

728
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: The New York Times review of her book noted quote

729
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: the authors find that it is not the free spinning younger,

730
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 1: the incapacitated elderly who are declaring bankruptcy so much as

731
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: families with children. Their main thesis is undeniable. Typical families

732
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: often cannot afford high quality education, healthcare, and neighborhoods required

733
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: to be middle class today. More clearly than anyone else,

734
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: I think miss Warren and miss Tiagi have shown how

735
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: little attention the nation and our government have paid to

736
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: the way Americans really live. And it does kind of

737
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: seem like her research and study on on this matter

738
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,959
Speaker 1: is part of what kind of radicalizes the wrong word

739
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: for someone who had, in a sane society be considered

740
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: a centrist UM but but pushed her away like into

741
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: liberal and democratic politics UM. In two thousand five, she

742
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: co published a study on bankruptcy and medical debts which

743
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: revealed for the first time that half of family bankruptcy

744
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: filings happened in the wake of major medical issues. And

745
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: again this is the first time that data was like

746
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: clearly laid out in a scientific manner. Um, so that's

747
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: a big deal, like pointing out not just doing that

748
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: bankruptcy isn't the fault of personally responsibility showing with data

749
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: that it's the result of medical being able to point

750
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: to the actual problem. Um. Yeah too as a jumping

751
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 1: off point to what you actually want to do with it. Yeah. Yeah,

752
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: so that's cool, Like that's that's useful scholarship that helped

753
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: provide information that can be used to better the world. Yeah.

754
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: I think I think that also it's sort of just

755
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: points to that the evolution that you can't necessarily dismisses

756
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: like oh, she's a republicans Republican, like there are these

757
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: things that have happened that have led her to these conclusions.

758
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: And I think that's a good example of like, oh,

759
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: there's this study that shows you. I mean, I personally

760
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: wish that it didn't need that to get to get

761
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: you over there, but at least you can. Yeah, you

762
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: do the study, You look at the thing and you're like, oh,

763
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: that's a problem, and um now she cares about solving it.

764
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, it's something people. There's been a

765
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: lot of talk in the sort of de radicalization community,

766
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 1: because there's been some like folks who left neo Nazi

767
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: groups recently, and folks are you know, people within the

768
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: community are like not sure if they're really honest about it,

769
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: or if this is just another grift, if they're just

770
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: trying to like make money um by because it's now

771
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: profitable to like the radicalization kind of person. And so

772
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: one of the things that I really do agree with

773
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: when people talk about this is like, you know, it's it.

774
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 1: We want people to leave these communities. It's great if

775
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: they do. But if you're going to leave these communities

776
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: and like try to make a thing out of it

777
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: rather than just try to make amends for the wrongs

778
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: you've done, you've got to be bringing something to the table.

779
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: Um kind of like how um that former Breitbart editor

780
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: brought all of these emails between her and her colleagues

781
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: that are like, you know, part of what's revealed that

782
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 1: Miller's did you bring something actually show that you want

783
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: to do something about it? Yeah? Yeah, And I see

784
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: what she's doing. In the early two thousand's, this like

785
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: really dedic aided in rigorous work to show the actual

786
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: causes of bankruptcy and the problems that like lead people

787
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: into poverty and how the system stacked against them. That's

788
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: something she's bringing to the table beyond just saying I'm

789
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: not a Republican anymore, right, it's I actually, uh, I

790
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: have a useful tool for people. Um. Yeah, and yeah.

791
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: And also I think there's something you've said for just

792
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: being able to accept people and not reject them. Um,

793
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: because you want, like you said, you want people to

794
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: uh see the light as it were, and to be

795
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: accepted even with skepticism. That's you know, healthy skepticism is good,

796
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: but not to like all out reject somebody just because

797
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: yeah they're past. Because we need to take a real

798
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: quick break for products and services stuff, building a movement

799
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: towards products and services, and then we'll be back from

800
00:42:49,040 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: more of this everything. We're back, We're back, We're back.

801
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: We are we ever gone? These are epistemological questions. Um.

802
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, still while still teaching at Harvard,

803
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren met Barack Obama for the worst time. She

804
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: accidentally punched him in the face. It was horrible. No, no,

805
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: for the first time. Uh. Now, this was at a fundraiser.

806
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: It was actually one of Barack Obama's very first out

807
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: of state fundraisers for his senate campaign. UM. The fundraiser

808
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: has been put together by Professor David Wilkins, and he recalls, quote,

809
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: one of the people who came was Elizabeth Warren, and

810
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: I had told Barack that she was coming, and he

811
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: was very excited because he had been working on predatory

812
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: lending in the Illinois State Senate. And so when Elizabeth came,

813
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: I took her over to meet Barack. And here's how

814
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: Warren recalled that meeting, going in two thousand eleven. Quote,

815
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: he holds his hand out, that's just like this is

816
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: just like in the movies. And as I hold my

817
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: hand out and as our fingers touch, he says to me,

818
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: predatory lending. And then he just goes and I never

819
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: get a word in. I never get a word in,

820
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: and I'm just standing there, my hand still in his hand,

821
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: and he's talking. Finally he gets all the way to

822
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: the end and he gets this big grin and he says, well,

823
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: and I say, you had me at predatory lending. I

824
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: don't think that story is true. Obviously, they definitely, they

825
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: definitely met, but like no, Barack Obama is one of

826
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: those charismatic man who's men who's ever lived. Nobody starts

827
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: a conversation like predatory lending, Like maybe he just started

828
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: talking and talking and talking. That's what I don't believe. Yeah,

829
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 1: I think she's like, you're going to listen to me.

830
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: You right now calling her a liar? Guys, are you

831
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: calling I'm calling her a politician? Yeah? Um so. Barack

832
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: Obama was elected in two thousand and eight, and he

833
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: took office in two thousand nine during the darkest days

834
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: of an economic collapse brought on by feckless fiscal policy

835
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: that let grifters run amuck in finance and real estate.

836
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: For a little while there, we all had higher hopes

837
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: that Barack Obama would actually do something without problems of this.

838
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah we really did, um boy, howdy. Yeah. Now, at

839
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: this point in time, Liz Warren was not yet in Congress,

840
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: but she was the chair of the Congressional Oversight Panel

841
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: for the Troubled Asset Relief Program or TARP, which is

842
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 1: an oversight board established to hopefully hold someone accountable for

843
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,359
Speaker 1: the financial collapse and to provide assistance to taxpayers. Now,

844
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: TARP was a controversial program, part of what it did

845
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: was basically buy up toxic assets in order to help

846
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: stabilize the financial sector. As chair of the TARP oversight Panel,

847
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: Warren was a harsh critic of this policy. And I'm

848
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: gonna quote from Politico here. In February two nine, Warren

849
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: personally warned the Senate Banking Committee about the government's accounting

850
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: slide of hand despite the assurances of then secret and

851
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: this is warrant talking, despite the assurances of then Secretary Paulson,

852
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: who said that transactions were at par That is, for

853
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,720
Speaker 1: every hundred dollars injected into the banks, the taxpayer received

854
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: socks and warrants from the banks worth about a hundred dollars.

855
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: The valuation study concludes that the Treasury paid substantially more

856
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: for the assets at purchased under the TARP program then

857
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: their then current market value. Now, the valuation study was

858
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: commissioned by Warren's panel, and it showed that the total

859
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: market value of TARP assets was roughly a hundred and

860
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: seventy six billion dollars, which was seventy eight billion dollars

861
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 1: less than what the government was paying these companies. So

862
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: the difference basically constituted a transfer of taxpayer money directly

863
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: to banks for free. Um. And while no one should

864
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: be surprised that a government loan program, you know, did this. Um,

865
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: the account was like, what political notes is that, like,

866
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: nobody should be surprised that the government loan program like

867
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: did this. But what's interesting is the accounting method Warrant

868
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: used to expose these costs. She was using something called

869
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: fair value accounting, which means making sure that evaluation reflects

870
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: current market prices, because things can get really fishy with

871
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: these companies when they're trying to make it look like

872
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: the government's getting a better deal than they really are. Um.

873
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: So that's an important thing to note that when she was,

874
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, chair of this this Tart committee, she used

875
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: fair value accounting to attack the TART program for basically

876
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: giving free money to these companies that had brought on

877
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,720
Speaker 1: the financial collapse. Right, Keep that in mind. That's definitely

878
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: good things she did, but it ties into a bad

879
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,919
Speaker 1: thing she did later, So keep that in mind now.

880
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: In two thousand eleven, President Obama charged Elizabeth Warren with

881
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 1: helping to create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. The bureau's

882
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: only job was to protect consumers from banks and predatory

883
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: financial institutions. Now, there are a lot of criticisms you'll

884
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: find of the CFPB, ranging from the valid because it's

885
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: questionable as to whether or not it's entirely constitutional, to

886
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: the stupid. I found an article on the Hill that

887
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: claims it damaged businesses by levying five billion dollars in

888
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 1: fines against financial entities that misbehaved, which is its job. Now,

889
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: whatever you want to say, yeah, it's the Hill, you know.

890
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: Whatever you want to say about the cfp B, the

891
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: attempt to establish such a bureau was, in my opinion,

892
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: pretty noble and reasonable. Um Warren never actually ran the bureau,

893
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: She just helped to create it. Rumor has it that

894
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: President Obama was trying to push her for that job,

895
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: but he was basically forced to pick somebody else because

896
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: Warren was unpopular amongst certain politicians. Um So. In two

897
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: thousand twelve, Elizabeth Warren ran to be the U. S

898
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: Senator from Massachusetts, Taxachusetts, Am I right? Is anyone tried

899
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: that joke? As I think I'm break a new ground there.

900
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: She ran against an incumbent Republican Senator, Scott Brown, who

901
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: campaigned in a pickup truck in a bid to win

902
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 1: support for his via his folksy ways hed derighted Warren

903
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: as professor in debates. This did not Elizabeth Warren. Yeah, professor, Okay, scientist,

904
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. And now this didn't work and Warren won handily.

905
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's a really valid point. Um. You know,

906
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 1: when people talk about whether or not we should trust

907
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: her because she was a Republican at one point, Like,

908
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: she has a proven ability to unseek Republican who campaigned,

909
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: you know, by by pushing in heart on their on

910
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: their right wing. But she's able to do that, she

911
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: did it before. I don't doubt her liberalism at this point.

912
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: I I don't either. I'm just pointing out that I

913
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: think there's there's like evidence that her conservative background is

914
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: an asset because she was able to campaign against this

915
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: guy and when like calling her an egghead or whatever. Yeah,

916
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: and in terms of like who I want, you know,

917
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: the president being the head of the party, Um, there's

918
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 1: something to be said for a president who has direct

919
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: personal experience unseating Republicans in the Senate, which is something

920
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: we need to do a lot. Yeah. So, Um, when

921
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: she started her run for office, Warren told supporters, I

922
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: don't want to go to Washington to be a co

923
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: sponsor of some bland little bill nobody cares about. I

924
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: don't want to go to Washington to get my name

925
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: on something that makes small change at the margin. Now,

926
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: in her first four years in office, she co sponsored

927
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: four dozen resolutions for bland little bills nobody cares about,

928
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 1: including bills is ablishing National Rare Disease Day and honoring

929
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: the entrepreneurial spirits of small business concerns, which really changed things.

930
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 1: Can do you guys remember the years before National Rare

931
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: Disease Day? Those were dark times were they were hard

932
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: for everybody. Yeah, I didn't know they were rare diseases.

933
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 1: I thought it was just cancer and syphilis all the

934
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: way down. But that's about not being able to get

935
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: stuff done because you're new, or because I can't imagine

936
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,959
Speaker 1: that's a thing that she cared Also, I mean, yeah,

937
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: you also want to be able to say, like, oh,

938
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: I think she was some boxes, yeah, something, so that

939
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: she'd have another bullet point to stick on one of

940
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: those mail ers they shove into the side of the door.

941
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: You know, it's something you do. It's not great. I'm

942
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 1: not going to praise you for it. It's pretty normal whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Now,

943
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: like most politicians, Senator Warren found reality to deviate from

944
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: her previous ambitions, and she had to make compromises to

945
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: deal with the world of politics. For example, remember that

946
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: stuff I just said about her condemnation of TARP, and

947
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 1: you know the accounting she used in order to prove

948
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: it was a really fucking bad idea. Well, in two

949
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, she advocated for enhancing the federal student loan

950
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: program based on the same sort of wobbly numbers she'd

951
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: criticized the TARP program for from Politico, because the government

952
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 1: effectively assumes its estimate of what consuit of what student

953
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: loan recipients will pay back carries no risk. Official cost

954
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: figures show the program earning a profit of a hundred

955
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: and thirty five billion dollars over the next ten years.

956
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: But the idea that a government program can subsidize students

957
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 1: and generate profits at the same time should give anyone pause. Indeed,

958
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: when the Congressional Budget off has applied fair value methods

959
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: to federal student loans, it found that the profit is

960
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: is actually an eight eight billion dollar loss for the taxpayers.

961
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: So when Elizabeth Warren is analyzing and critiquing TARP. She

962
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: uses fair value accounting when she's trying to push a

963
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: student loan uh like a new student loan program. She

964
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: doesn't use fair value so that it looks like her

965
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: the program she's supporting is better than it is. So

966
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,720
Speaker 1: that's that's worth noting now. During her time as Senator,

967
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren has managed to push exactly one meaningful bill

968
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: through the Senate, the Smart Savings Act, which modified retirement

969
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 1: accounts for federal workers to make their investments more valuable.

970
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: Her student loan legislation was blocked by Republicans, So the

971
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: only bill that you can say Elizabeth Warren got through

972
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: during her time in the Senate is the Smart Savings Act.

973
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: And this may seem like a crappy record. It's certainly

974
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 1: not like an inspiring one, um, but it's actually slightly

975
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: above average. From members of her congressional class of two. Yeah. Yeah,

976
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: Most of the other senators elected alongside Warren in the

977
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: same year have passed zero bills in the Senate. Only

978
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: two of her classmates, Ted Cruz and deb Fisher have

979
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: passed two bills, So she's gotten one bill through. The

980
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: record is too couldn't not a great system. You certainly

981
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: can't say she's an exceptionally productive legislator, um, But she's

982
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: slightly above average given the time at which she was elected,

983
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: and would be yeah, yeah, given the complete funkedness of

984
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: our system. Um. Now. Warren is, however, you know, well

985
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: known for being influential outside of her specific legislative accomplishments.

986
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 1: She's a remarkably potent member of the Senate Banking Committee,

987
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: and her at times vicious questioning has led to a

988
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: number of changes in federal policies that didn't require new legislation.

989
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: For example, she pushed the SEC to require banks to

990
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: admit wrongdoing when they negotiate settlements. The Atlantic spoke to

991
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: one of her critics, a financial services executive, who said

992
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: this about her, She's both, at the same time, highly

993
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: ineffective and influential. I know that sounds inconsistent, but it's not.

994
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: She has no legislative accomplishment other than to derail a

995
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: few nominees, which is easy to do, but to her credit,

996
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: she is highly influential. Members of the House Democratic Caucus

997
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 1: and Senate Democratic Caucus are really looking over their shoulders,

998
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: so she's able to push to get a lot of

999
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 1: things done and change is made um as a result

1000
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: of the fact that she because she's good at the

1001
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: debate and ship now. When congressional Democrats talked about cutting

1002
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: Social Security in two thousand twelve, Warren got forty two

1003
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: out of forty four of them to vote yes on

1004
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: expanding Social Security benefits instead. Later, however, she failed to

1005
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: derail an omnibus bill that softened Dodd Frank the Dodd

1006
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: Frank Wall Street Reform law. Her best known moment as

1007
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: a legislator may have come into thousand sixteen, when she

1008
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: grilled Wells Fargo CEO John Stump during a hearing of

1009
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: her allegations of massive fraud within the organization uh In

1010
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: a now viral video, she told Stump, you should resign,

1011
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: you should give back the money that you gained, all

1012
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: the scam was going on, and you should be criminally

1013
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: investigated by the Department of Justice in the Securities and

1014
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,760
Speaker 1: Exchange Commission. Warren has been a consistent advocate of criminal

1015
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: charges in jail time for executives and CEOs who break

1016
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: the law. In the wake of the two thousand and

1017
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: seventeen Equifax data breach, which affected a hundred and forty

1018
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: three million people. Elizabeth Warren announced the Corporate Executive Accountability Act.

1019
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: If passed, this would impose jail time on executives who

1020
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: negligently permit or fail to prevent a violation of the

1021
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: law that impacts the health, safety, finances, or personal data

1022
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 1: of one percent or more of the population of any

1023
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: even state. A convicted CEO would get a year in

1024
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: prison for a first offense, and up to three years

1025
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 1: for repeat offenses. You might call this a slap on

1026
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,800
Speaker 1: the wrist, and I would, but it's also fucking something,

1027
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 1: and currently nothing happens to these people. Call that good

1028
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,720
Speaker 1: elements of that where it's like, well, at least it's something.

1029
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Some jail time is a massive improvement over

1030
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: they get rich and never face consequences and even just

1031
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: the conversation of like holding them accountable. Yes, yes, so

1032
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: that's my six page s I and Elizabeth Warren, well done, Robert.

1033
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we did it. We did it, But not

1034
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: quite because now it's Cody to talk about. We're gonna

1035
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: compare a little bit between her and Bernie. Is that

1036
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 1: what you're doing, Yeah, just a little bit. I kind

1037
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: of wanted to keep it loose and see what you

1038
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: guys thought, also of just how how the situation we're

1039
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: in is. Because I know, Katie, you're like a big

1040
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: fan of Elizabeth Warren f UM and sort of wanted

1041
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: to go through her her platform and a little more

1042
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: detail and sort of compare and contrast the two candidates

1043
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: who I would say are the most progressive available, especially now. Okay, yeah,

1044
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: so yes, yes, left wing firebrand Kamala literally a communist Harris,

1045
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: you will be missed, Commula Harris. Yeah, it's not even

1046
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: like a main headline today. No, it's not Camala Harris. Right,

1047
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: there's more, there's probably more, um, but also more like

1048
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,760
Speaker 1: can't Maala Harris? All right? I mean we could also

1049
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 1: draw a comparison between her and added Turk Mustapha Kamal

1050
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: and call her Kamala Harris. There wouldn't be any logical

1051
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: through line there, because I don't think they're similar in

1052
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: any way, shape or form. No, that's that's nothing. It

1053
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: just occurred to me. But yeah, so, uh, I think

1054
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: the main difference that it's very clear with these two

1055
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: is that I think that they're on they're on the

1056
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: same track, and I think they have similar goals. Um,

1057
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: but Ernie is just a little more. Bernie's a socialist

1058
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,919
Speaker 1: and she's a capitalist. I mean, there you go. That's

1059
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: where I was gonna get at. Um. There you know.

1060
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: Bernie's not um kind of mince words about what he

1061
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: thinks about capitalism, um, and a lot of the issues

1062
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: that arise from that, whereas uh, the Warren has said

1063
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 1: that she is a capitalist to her bones. Yeah. And

1064
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: one of the moments I really disliked from her was

1065
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: during the State of the Union. I was going to

1066
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: bring that up, promised, Yeah, okay, okay, I'll let you

1067
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah. Um. I think the best example of

1068
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: this is, uh, during Trump's State of the Union dress,

1069
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: he talks about socialism and how socialist never going to

1070
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: come to America. Um, And at this moment, everybody stands

1071
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: up and gives him applause, except for you can see

1072
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders just sitting there, stone face, just like you

1073
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: don't know the deal. And I think that there is

1074
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: a UM. I think there's a real problem when a

1075
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: fascist says that socialism will never happen in America, and um,

1076
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 1: a capitalist to her bones stands up and claps, Because

1077
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: that is large part of protecting capitalism and everybody else

1078
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: stood up to everybody else stood up for sure. Yeah,

1079
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: but that's like, that's the time for a principal moral stance,

1080
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: especially if your single most noteworthy policy is literally wealthy redistribution,

1081
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 1: which is like the core of socialist politics, um at

1082
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: this point in time. Yeah, but her whole thing is

1083
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: bringing socialists these practice, these policies, but maintaining capitalism because

1084
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 1: overhauling the system is X, Y or Z. You know,

1085
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: it doesn't rub me quite as raw as you guys.

1086
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I see it as a real reason to

1087
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: worry that she's not going to actually push for a

1088
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that she she says she's going

1089
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: to push for. That this will this income redistribution and

1090
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: medicare for all the actual like socialist things that she's

1091
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 1: she's talked about. Um, will die on the vine because

1092
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: she's going to compromise with Republicans and we'll wind up

1093
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: with another four years of Obama exactly. That's a real concern. Um. Again,

1094
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: especially like if a if a fascist says, uh, we're

1095
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: gonna save capitalism, I don't think you should stand up

1096
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: for that. Um. Yeah, it's not a good look. I

1097
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: don't like that she did that. It's the single moment

1098
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: that gives me most pause about her. Yeah, And I

1099
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: think it's sort of that general idea, um can be

1100
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: seen in the difference between them. Um, although she does

1101
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: have a wealth tax that, as you mentioned, pulls very well.

1102
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: Obviously his is more extreme. Hers goes just it's two

1103
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: percent or six percent depending on your wealth. H Sanders

1104
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: starts at two percent between thirty two million and fifty million,

1105
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: and hers doesn't have anything in that category. Um. Interesting.

1106
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: Also if you if you see like some celebrities be

1107
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 1: like I actually I think they're both great, but I

1108
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: like Warren. Uh, probably because they don't follow her right.

1109
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes you look in like, oh you you're you're met

1110
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 1: Worth is like forty million or something like that. Um,

1111
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: so he is more progressive there, but she has it,

1112
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: and that's something. So I think that there's a there's

1113
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: a progressive path that she's on. Like it's it's beyond

1114
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: arguing that based on assuming she actually goes for the

1115
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: things on her platform, if she were elected, she would

1116
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: be the most progressive candidate elected during our lifetime. Now

1117
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: there's reason to worry that she wouldn't go through with it.

1118
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, right, and so that's sort of we're getting

1119
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: out like there. And there are other similarities, like they

1120
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: you know, they want to get rid of the electoral College. Uh,

1121
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 1: they want to restructure Ice. Both of them. I think

1122
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: his language is a little stronger, but not neither of

1123
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: them have said like I want to abolish ICE. Yeah,

1124
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 1: I don't like that either. Don't like that either. That's yeah,

1125
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 1: we talked about that in the Bernie episode. They're both

1126
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: believers and borders. They're both fundamentally you know, they want

1127
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: to be president of the United States, and there's only

1128
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: Bernie is about the most progressive you can be and

1129
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: want to be the president of the United States, right,

1130
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 1: both think, yeah, yeah, they both do fundamentally support aspects

1131
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: of what Ice does, right. And I think that also,

1132
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: like even when when she's talking about her plan for

1133
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: the military, Um, she her vision is a a green military,

1134
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: and uh, the way she talks about it, I think

1135
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: is um a little uh disconcerting. Um. It's because when

1136
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: she like on her website, like literally, if you look

1137
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: at her foreign policy and her military page, the first

1138
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 1: sentences from Endless Wars that strain military families two and

1139
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: then she goes on. And if you're framing it like

1140
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: the endless wars are bad because of the strain on

1141
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 1: military families, then that sort of indicates that maybe you

1142
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: don't really right. And it's sort of that like presenting

1143
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: this seemingly progressive idea but framed in Republican language and

1144
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: maintaining this idea, and like her military plan also talks

1145
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: about getting them to uh green energy and making all

1146
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: the military bases safe from climate disasters and stuff, without

1147
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: pointing out by the way, we have way to mility

1148
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: many military bases around the world. It's all about sort

1149
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 1: of protecting that institution as opposed to pointing out the

1150
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: flaws in the institution. It's also like pandering to certain sides,

1151
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: protecting certain Yes, it's certain elements of it, but we

1152
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: also like tapping into something that you know the liberals

1153
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: would would respond to. And this is one of those

1154
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: things where like so when I talked about like my

1155
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: my issues with Warren, there's this stuff that like makes

1156
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: me question whether or not voting for her would actually

1157
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,919
Speaker 1: help anything if she were to get elected. Um, which

1158
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: is like the whole being like standing during that point

1159
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: in the state of the Internet right where you really good.

1160
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: But then and then there's the things where I think

1161
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 1: her beliefs, like the beliefs that are leading her to

1162
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: this are like wrong and fucked up, and she's not

1163
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: going to deal with big aspects of the problem. But

1164
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 1: if she actually does that thing, it would be huge.

1165
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: And that the US military thing, like it's one of

1166
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: those things you can hit on her because like, Okay,

1167
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 1: so you're fine with us being imperialists and like bombing

1168
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: people as long as we're green about it, and yeah,

1169
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: that's fucked up. But also, the US military is the

1170
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: single largest emitter of greenhouse gases on the planet, um, right,

1171
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: And there are aspects of that and if you if

1172
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: you do if you focus on reducing their footprint and

1173
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: developing green technology for them, that will trickle down to

1174
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 1: you know, the people who really need it and so on. Well,

1175
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 1: and it's also just like if we're talking about single

1176
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: actions that could be taken in order to stop climate

1177
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: change quickly, one of the things that has to happen

1178
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,439
Speaker 1: very quickly is the U S Military has to stop

1179
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: emitting greenhouse gases. Um. So, yeah, I think they're like

1180
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of that where I I think that

1181
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: she some of the things she wants to do are good,

1182
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: and but like framed in a in a way, and um,

1183
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: you just wish that it was a little more pointed

1184
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: in their criticism and really like leading the conversation about it.

1185
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about medicare for all her. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1186
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: let's get to that. Um, because there there are a

1187
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: lot of details about differences in their plans. And I

1188
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: think that that's the general idea, is that her plans

1189
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: sort of are couched in this like let's preserve what's

1190
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: going on, despite framing it like big structural change. Like

1191
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: she's very much like this is a grassroots movement of

1192
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 1: big structural change, but actually she just wants to regulate capitalism. Well,

1193
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: so on the car ride over here, you were talking

1194
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: about boils down to Bernie being like, yes, medicare for

1195
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 1: all and and her at this point proposing it be

1196
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: a two step process. Yeah. So she is slowly uh that,

1197
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: but then two years so like get certain things started,

1198
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: and then after two years pushed for the medicare for all.

1199
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah her, So her plan and this is a slow process.

1200
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: I think this is indicative what we're talking about, where

1201
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: she is slowly gotten on board with Medicare for all.

1202
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a big part of her platform when

1203
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: she's running for Senate or anything. But she has gotten

1204
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: on board with a single payer and sort of avoided

1205
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 1: talking about how she's going to pay for it and

1206
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: not just sort of full filtally being like, this is

1207
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: the right thing to do, We're gonna do it. Well,

1208
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: she does say this is the right thing to do,

1209
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: We're going to do it ultimately, but I mean like

1210
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 1: and like, and so this is a different development if

1211
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago she wasn't saying it in

1212
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 1: two steps she was talking about it were that and that.

1213
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: I do understand being a little bit of a cause

1214
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: for alarm, But I pushed for you to bring this

1215
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 1: up now because I just think it's interesting conversation that

1216
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: we should all be having. I know that you're very

1217
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: much staunchly in the camp of yes, and I am too.

1218
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: I think pushing for medicare for all is how you

1219
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: get to medicare for all, um I do understand. I

1220
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: I know that it is scary to a lot of people.

1221
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: Even if they do want it, they're not sure how

1222
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: it will work out. And I'm wondering how off putting

1223
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: is this idea of two years starting and then after

1224
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: two years pushing for the going for that way, And

1225
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 1: also how long it would take anyways, like how long

1226
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 1: would it take Bernie to get around and getting us

1227
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 1: medicare for all? Maybe maybe it would be even harder

1228
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 1: to obtain. I don't know, but well, I think it's

1229
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: It's the kind of thing, though, Katie, when you're like

1230
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: when you're haggling with somebody at like a bizarre or

1231
01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: whatever one of the parts of the world where that's

1232
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: the way buying is done. You don't start with the

1233
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: highest you're willing to pay. You start like you know

1234
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: you you you start with as good as like the

1235
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: best thing you can imagine price you can imagine getting,

1236
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: and you push for that so that you know when

1237
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: you you you're going to have to give some you

1238
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 1: push for we're going to start making these changes immediately.

1239
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: Um And obviously there will be friction no public option

1240
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: in Obamacare, and there's reason that no, and I get that,

1241
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: and I do agree with it. I think there's also

1242
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 1: so there's this article in the Washington Post a couple

1243
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: of days ago about the sort of buying the scenes

1244
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 1: story of her struggle with like presenting the plan and

1245
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: trying to sort of tow the line in a way

1246
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: where she wants to be this hyper progressive on medicare

1247
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: for all, but also a lot of people in the

1248
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: party are pressuring her behind the scenes like this is

1249
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: a bad idea, you shouldn't do this. Um. And finally,

1250
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: the end result is we're going to lower the age

1251
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: for a medic character fifty and then eighteen and below

1252
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: you get it also, and we're gonna vote and we're

1253
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 1: gonna do that, and then in three years we're going

1254
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: to vote again and we're going to give it to

1255
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 1: everybody because by then it'll people will be like, oh,

1256
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: it's actually good. Yeah. But I mean there are several

1257
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: problems with that, I think, Um, like you were pointing out, Robert,

1258
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: like you you go with what you want to do,

1259
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: and you say, here's what we want and what we're

1260
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 1: going to do, and then you're probably gonna have to

1261
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: back up a little bit because that's how the government works,

1262
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: as you said, like you know, one bill in her

1263
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: whole time. But so but also, um, if you're waiting

1264
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 1: until your third year to like push for it, that

1265
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: means you need to maintain the Congress control of Congress

1266
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: in the midterms, and that's hard for a person that

1267
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 1: was just elected. Real quick, I just want to interject

1268
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: and say this because we don't talk about it enough

1269
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: on the show, but I hope we do in the

1270
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 1: new year. That just as important, if not more important

1271
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: than the presidential election. Well that's incredibly important is the Senate,

1272
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: and I think that we should talk about that a

1273
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 1: lot um and highlight those races. But because in that situation,

1274
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: you need the people to be able to put that

1275
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 1: we want anything to happen, and with any of these candidates,

1276
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: we need some Democrats anyway, sort of points to why

1277
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: she also so she's in favor of getting rid of

1278
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: the filibuster um, which I think is I think their

1279
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: arguments for and against that too. I think that, uh,

1280
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 1: it can be used by the people who have been

1281
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, uh, I want to stop you from doing

1282
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 1: things like this um. But so I think that speaks

1283
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 1: to her like we're just gonna try to do it,

1284
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:27,519
Speaker 1: but you need that support, I think, And I do

1285
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 1: agree with you, guys, I I know and I agree.

1286
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 1: I just I do wonder what is if that feels

1287
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 1: less intimidating to a voter that is coming into this

1288
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 1: and not sure where they stand on the issue. That's

1289
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 1: the only thing that I put out there. There's a

1290
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 1: couple of different ways I feel about this, Katie. One

1291
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: of them is sort of there. There's the issues like

1292
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 1: the millet, like the green military thing, where I I

1293
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: agree we should be talking about how to fundamentally change

1294
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: the way our our nation like works militarily and in

1295
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 1: foreign policies that were not involved in wars all around

1296
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: the world and drone striking like we just killed a

1297
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: bunch of kids in Afghanistan. Um. I I totally agree

1298
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 1: with that, um. But at the same time, we are

1299
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: where we are in this country, and I think that

1300
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,000
Speaker 1: the way she's you know, reducing the U. S. Military's

1301
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: emissions is critical and the way she's framed that is

1302
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: a good way to get moderate and conservative voters who

1303
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 1: are kind of on the fence and behind it. Because

1304
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: if you start being like we're gonna abolish the U. S. Military,

1305
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: that those people are gonna vote for you, right, you

1306
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: gotta so. I think that's an example of she's good

1307
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 1: at framing stuff for conservatives. And Okay, I may wish

1308
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: things were different, but we are where we are, and

1309
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: that makes sense to me. And then there's the stuff

1310
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: where I think by not pushing harder um, she's causing.

1311
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: She she not even causing. She's representative of a problem

1312
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 1: like with students like her her plan on student loan

1313
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: debt cancelation. She consistently says that her plan would provides

1314
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: at least some debt cancelation for people with student loan

1315
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: debt UM and she I'm gonna quote here directly. Here

1316
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 1: it cancels fifty thousand student loan debt for every person

1317
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: with household income under a hundred thousand dollars. It provides

1318
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 1: substantial debt cancelation for every program with household income between

1319
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand and two hundred fifty thousand dollars UM.

1320
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: So that's that's that would be better than what we

1321
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 1: have now. But it's very different from what Sanders has

1322
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 1: um because his is total debt cancelation. So under you know, now,

1323
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: that may not seem huge, it may seem like things

1324
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,680
Speaker 1: get better either way. But there's a reason why I

1325
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 1: find that worrying. And it was really well elucidated in

1326
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:31,640
Speaker 1: an article in Current Affairs magazine called the prospect of

1327
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 1: an Elizabeth Warren nomination should be very worrying. And I'm

1328
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 1: gonna quest, I'm gonna I'm gonna quote from that. Now.

1329
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 1: Means testing is a critical part of the difference between

1330
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: the two because in it we see the serious differences

1331
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:43,840
Speaker 1: between what Sanders and Warren each think the world ought

1332
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 1: to be. Like Sanders believes in a decom modified provision

1333
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:49,360
Speaker 1: of public goods where they're free and you get to

1334
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:52,640
Speaker 1: use them because you're a person, Warren believes much more

1335
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: strongly in giving them only to people who satisfy a

1336
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: set eligibility criteria. Now, defenders of means testing will argue

1337
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:01,679
Speaker 1: that it is aggressive, and this is why they say

1338
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 1: things like, you don't want to give college free college

1339
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump's kids, but you should give free college

1340
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,360
Speaker 1: to them for the same reason that we give Donald

1341
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,759
Speaker 1: Trump's kids the same access to free public high schools

1342
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,080
Speaker 1: and free roads and free fire services and free libraries

1343
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,559
Speaker 1: and free parks. They are people, so they get given

1344
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: the same basics as everyone else. And that's one of

1345
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 1: my major issues with you. And I don't I don't

1346
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 1: disagree with that. I don't disagree with that at all.

1347
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: Like I I get that, and it's something that I

1348
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: think about as well. Um, but I do wonder how

1349
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: that for other people that aren't as liberal as us

1350
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 1: that we're trying to get And that's just when I

1351
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:36,840
Speaker 1: think about and as we're putting out this information, and

1352
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 1: it's just part of this conversation that we're having. Yeah,

1353
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: it's a concern. Um, I think I don't know. I

1354
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: like personally, when I see, like when I see Bernie

1355
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 1: Sanders go on Fox News and the crowd at Fox

1356
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: News is clapping for him for the things he's saying,

1357
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 1: it tells me that if you honestly talk about these

1358
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: problems in a like and if when you frame them

1359
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 1: in a way where like it is about everybody, it's

1360
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 1: that it's not me a sort of approach to it.

1361
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 1: When I think that's more effective than we give it

1362
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: credit for, because it is like when you talk about

1363
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: means testing and being sort of exclusionary in these ways,

1364
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: you don't know everybody's situation, and the idea is that

1365
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:14,919
Speaker 1: everybody gets it because everybody should get it exactly same

1366
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 1: energy and all these sort of things we're talking about,

1367
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:23,080
Speaker 1: and it's yeah, yeah, it's because we're trying we it's

1368
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: because we fundamentally need to change society, our society at

1369
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 1: a a pretty basic level, or we're going to either

1370
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: collapse into a fascist nightmare state or have a civil

1371
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 1: war or something like that. We think we can't just

1372
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: it's we're we're not at We're no longer at the

1373
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: enough duct tape can keep it's a sustainable car. Yeah,

1374
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:49,799
Speaker 1: that's uplifting way to end this show. Well, I actually

1375
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:51,639
Speaker 1: want there's one more quote I want to read from

1376
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 1: that Current Affairs article if I can um that I

1377
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,640
Speaker 1: think is I agreed with as well. One of the

1378
01:12:57,640 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 1: most important things Bernie Sanders has ever said is this,

1379
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to run the presidency differently than anyone else.

1380
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: I'm not only going to be commander in chief, I'm

1381
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,680
Speaker 1: going to be organizer in chief. What does that mean.

1382
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: It means that Sanders is not going to stop speaking

1383
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 1: on picket lines when he becomes president. Trump did not

1384
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 1: stop holding rallies. This was smart. This was a critical

1385
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: mistake that Barack Obama made. He stopped organizing when he

1386
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:20,599
Speaker 1: got into office. I have previously discussed the way Warren

1387
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: focuses on plans where Sanders, while Sanders focuses on power.

1388
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 1: Everyone knows that Elizabeth Warren has a plan for that.

1389
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:28,680
Speaker 1: But if those plans are going to go anywhere, you

1390
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 1: need what Sanders is talking about, a political revolution. You

1391
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 1: need to overthrow the existing Democratic Party leadership in the

1392
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 1: d n C and in Congress. You need to threaten

1393
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: to run the primary candidates against anyone who doesn't support

1394
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 1: your agenda. You need a giant on the ground operation

1395
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: of people who will lobby for your agenda and convince

1396
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,759
Speaker 1: Americans that anyone who opposes it needs to be ejected

1397
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: from office. I think one of the fundamental problems with

1398
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 1: Barack Obama was that he was a law professor. He

1399
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 1: came up with a plan, and if he didn't have

1400
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 1: the votes in Congress to pass it, that was that

1401
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:00,879
Speaker 1: the plan was dead. The law professor accepts political reality

1402
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 1: is fixed. Well, the movement builder tries to get millions

1403
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:06,560
Speaker 1: of people to act politically in order to alter that reality.

1404
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,760
Speaker 1: And I that's I think really an important note. That's

1405
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 1: a good Yeah, that's sort of kind of puts it

1406
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:14,880
Speaker 1: all together and what we're talking about, because I think

1407
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 1: that also she sort of uses that language, but it

1408
01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily push for it, like she talks about the

1409
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:22,640
Speaker 1: grassroots movement. She talks about the organizing, but it's not

1410
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: really with the same goal um of doing, of doing

1411
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,560
Speaker 1: that and really like creating a movement of power to

1412
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: give back to the people as opposed to like regulating

1413
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: the people a little bit. This is all very interesting, uh,

1414
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,680
Speaker 1: in a very important conversation to be having as we're

1415
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 1: comparing them. I still love her, but you know, these

1416
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: are all important distinctions as people. I think that a

1417
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: lot of people are. It's going to come down, especially

1418
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 1: our listeners to Bernie or Warren. Yeah, well, I think if,

1419
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: like if if Bernie wasn't running or hasn't been a

1420
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: politician for decades, I think that this would be a

1421
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 1: different kind of episode. Um, you know, you would frame

1422
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 1: it differently. So, yeah, like we we we've we've run

1423
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 1: out of time for this episode. There's more we want

1424
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:06,640
Speaker 1: to talk about in terms of like some stuff we

1425
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: missed on Bernie, in terms of differences between Bernie and Warren. Um,

1426
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to that in another episode. We're not

1427
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: done with this, but I think we've provided a really

1428
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:17,240
Speaker 1: good overview of her career in our concerns with her

1429
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 1: and the stuff we like. I hope people think this

1430
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:22,679
Speaker 1: is fair. I think it's fair. I think it's fair. Yeah,

1431
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 1: I think it's fair. If I don't think it's fair,

1432
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 1: then you're wrong. Yeah, then you're wrong. And you can

1433
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:31,920
Speaker 1: drag us on Twitter. Um, you guys wanna want to

1434
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 1: lead us out? Yeah? Oh, if you want to drag

1435
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:36,719
Speaker 1: us on Twitter, it's at worst your pod. It's also

1436
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 1: at worst your pod on Instagram. Um, all those things.

1437
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:43,879
Speaker 1: I'm Katie Stole on Twitter. I'm Dr Mr Cody on Twitter. Yeah,

1438
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: and I'm Dr Mr Katie Stole on Damnit and I

1439
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:57,840
Speaker 1: right okay on Twitter? Um, yeah, a little with a

1440
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:06,520
Speaker 1: little for in No, you know, you'll have a wonderful day.

1441
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 1: By products, by products, vote for dot com for your

1442
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 1: local candle. That's where's your's, where's your products? Everything? Everything's

1443
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:28,640
Speaker 1: so dumps again. I tried. Worst Year Ever is a

1444
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my

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01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:34,440
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1446
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.