Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Emily jay I remember the check in San Francisco, and
Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hours.
Speaker 1: Some of the world's most recognizable brands, from Apple to
Speaker 1: Coca Cola, are being worn to pull advertising from Twitter,
Speaker 1: depending on how Elon Musk moderates content or not. But
Speaker 1: it's not just Twitter that has an ad problem. All
Speaker 1: major social networks are re link from fewer AD dollars
Speaker 1: will even go to social media in the future or
Speaker 1: fleet to streaming we'll discuss. Plus Airbnb gets a reality
Speaker 1: check as consumers shift away from higher cost rentals that
Speaker 1: thrived in the pandemic. CEO Brian Chesky joins us to
Speaker 1: talk about his outlook on travel and address those high
Speaker 1: cleaning fees, and as tensions between the US and trying
Speaker 1: to persist, how do businesses change their strategy? Plus where
Speaker 1: is Jack mob? A former Ali Baba Exact will join us,
Speaker 1: but first a little bit more about Twitter and advertising.
Speaker 1: Elon Musk taking over Twitter at one of the most
Speaker 1: precarious moments for big tech companies that have built massive
Speaker 1: businesses based on ad revenue. Platforms we've taken for granted,
Speaker 1: like Twitter, Facebook, Instagram have been free to users thanks
Speaker 1: to those ads. But that I'm beginning to change and
Speaker 1: could continue to change fast from where I want to
Speaker 1: bring in Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner. Kurt, before we go any farther,
Speaker 1: what's actually happening with Twitter's ad products right now? We've
Speaker 1: there's been talk about a potential advertiser boycott elon musks,
Speaker 1: but some ideas out there about a subscription. Where do
Speaker 1: we stand right now? Yeah, I mean right now everything
Speaker 1: is sort of where was, you know, last week, But
Speaker 1: you just mentioned there's some looming things that could be
Speaker 1: incredibly impactful. The first is this potential boycott, right like
Speaker 1: this idea that advertisers are going to say, hey, we're
Speaker 1: not going to spend money on this platform and unless
Speaker 1: you do certain things around speech or or policing of speech.
Speaker 1: And we saw that with Facebook a few years ago,
Speaker 1: Emily you probably remember, and it was a big deal.
Speaker 1: But Facebook was able to weather that storm um for
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons, and one of them was that,
Speaker 1: you know, they had Cheryl Stamberg out there talking to
Speaker 1: advertisers and other senior leaders. Now all the senior leaders
Speaker 1: that Twitter who would be having those conversations are gone.
Speaker 1: And so that's why I feel like an advertising boycott
Speaker 1: at Twitter could be kind of dicey um. If indeed
Speaker 1: that is the route that some people go, which you know,
Speaker 1: as we've seen they'd be willing to do it before,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if that something like that happens again. Meantime,
Speaker 1: you know, Twitter is grappling with the fact that advertisers
Speaker 1: are potentially going elsewhere in general, and also facing a
Speaker 1: massive econom mic slowdown. How our advertisers thinking about whether
Speaker 1: to spend their dollars on social media or look to
Speaker 1: things like streaming. I mean, this sounds so obvious, but
Speaker 1: if you're an advertiser, especially right now, when budgets are
Speaker 1: a little bit tighter, when there's this massive inflation issue
Speaker 1: that's going on, You're only going to spend money where
Speaker 1: you can see a return on that investment, Right. So
Speaker 1: that historically has been places like Google and Facebook, places
Speaker 1: with really strong direct response businesses. Right. So I put
Speaker 1: a dollar in and I know, with some you know, consistency,
Speaker 1: I'm going to get a dollar fifty and sales out now.
Speaker 1: Twitter is always been different than that. They've always specialized
Speaker 1: in what's called brand advertising, right. It's the kind of
Speaker 1: stuff you see around the super Bowl or on a
Speaker 1: billboard or whatever that is not necessarily something that is
Speaker 1: easy to measure for r O. I, it's not the
Speaker 1: kind of thing that I think when uh, you know,
Speaker 1: times are tough and money is that you want to
Speaker 1: go spend a bunch of money on that. So I
Speaker 1: do think, regardless of what's going on with Ellen, I
Speaker 1: just think aending money on Twitter right now is probably
Speaker 1: a tough you know, sell, just given the environment that
Speaker 1: we're in economically. We heard a little bit from Kathy Would,
Speaker 1: who seems excited about Elon Musk's plans per usual. Let's
Speaker 1: take a quick listen to what she had to say
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg earlier today. This subscription advertising model is a
Speaker 1: very smart move if he goes in that direction. The
Speaker 1: verification that little check is very important to people and
Speaker 1: could help clean up the platform considerably. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not surprising that someone like Kathy Would would be excited
Speaker 1: about Elon Musk's plans, But you know, what do you
Speaker 1: make of her support and whether you know there will
Speaker 1: be a wave of advertisers and and people out there
Speaker 1: who like what Ellen is doing. Yeah, I'm smiling, not
Speaker 1: because you know, I I necessarily disagree that the blue
Speaker 1: check has value. I'm just not sure that this idea
Speaker 1: that it's going to clean up the service of FO
Speaker 1: really makes a whole lot of sense. We've seen Elon
Speaker 1: talk about this as well, right that, well, once I
Speaker 1: start charging for the blue check, you know, bots won't
Speaker 1: pay for the blue check, and then we'll know who's
Speaker 1: real and who's not. Well, that implies, emily that regular
Speaker 1: people are going to pay for a blue check mark
Speaker 1: two and eight dollars a month. Uh, is not, you know,
Speaker 1: necessarily something that people are willing to fork over for
Speaker 1: you know, proven to Elon Muskata that they are a
Speaker 1: human being. And so I'm curious to see how this works.
Speaker 1: To me, it feels relatively rushed. Um, maybe there's more
Speaker 1: nuanced to it that we just haven't learned yet, right
Speaker 1: because a lot of this he's just conveying via his
Speaker 1: own tweets. So perhaps there's a much broader plan that
Speaker 1: we're just not seen. But at least on the surface,
Speaker 1: I feel like this idea of you know, we're suddenly
Speaker 1: gonna know who the humans are and who the bots
Speaker 1: are because the humans are the ones who are gonna pay.
Speaker 1: It just doesn't feel realistic when you have, you know,
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions people on the service, Not that many
Speaker 1: people are gonna want to pay for this? All right?
Speaker 1: Uh so much more, tv D, Blueworks, Kart Wariner, thank you.
Speaker 1: Of course, all of your reporting on Twitter will continue
Speaker 1: to follow. Uh your stuff. Let's get back to earnings now,
Speaker 1: with Airbnb reporting big revenue and net income numbers, but
Speaker 1: shares falling after the company gave a disappointing outlook for
Speaker 1: bookings in the fourth quarter, closing down more than I
Speaker 1: want to bring in see O Brian Chesky to address
Speaker 1: it all now, Brian, thank you as always for joining us.
Speaker 1: So one point to billion in net income, two point
Speaker 1: nine billion in revenue. These are big numbers, um, but
Speaker 1: investors still pretty disappointed. What's your response to this big
Speaker 1: stock plunge. I believe it's the biggest stock market job
Speaker 1: for Airbnb since going public. Well, you know, I've tried
Speaker 1: to make sure that we focus on what we can
Speaker 1: deliver in your ami, we delivered a record quarter a
Speaker 1: billion and a half of ibada, nearly a billion dollars
Speaker 1: in freak ash flow, three point three billion dollars in
Speaker 1: the trailing twelve months. I think that you know, people
Speaker 1: in the world, this is a very uncertain time and
Speaker 1: everyone's really looking for indications of what the future holds.
Speaker 1: Um We've tried to make very clear on the call
Speaker 1: that we're actually feeling very confident about Q four. So
Speaker 1: people are traveling, that's why results were really good in
Speaker 1: Q three, and we're actually feeling really confident. I don't
Speaker 1: want to make sure people know that. So let's hold
Speaker 1: on in on this moderating of booking growth that you see.
Speaker 1: If we are heading into a long term recession, who's
Speaker 1: to say that that consumers aren't going to cut back
Speaker 1: on travel or aren't going to choose to stay in cheaper,
Speaker 1: closer places rather than splurge on that trip abroad, and
Speaker 1: that that's going to add up for Airbnb. Well, this
Speaker 1: is a great point, Emily. One of the things I
Speaker 1: just say, though, is that one of the things we
Speaker 1: learn in the pandemic is that we have a very
Speaker 1: adaptable business model. For example, member recall in air bing
Speaker 1: b was the first company to rebound in all of travel.
Speaker 1: That's partly why we had such a six sus y
Speaker 1: p O. And the reason why is we are a
Speaker 1: more affordable option. We have never nearly every type of
Speaker 1: space in nearly every community, so if people cut back
Speaker 1: cross border travel, they might start working more from Airbnb.
Speaker 1: So we found a very brasilient model and that's something
Speaker 1: I'm feeling really confident about. Chris Bryant, are Bloomberg opinion columnist,
Speaker 1: had an interesting take. He suggested, if Airbnb has a
Speaker 1: problem is that you're making too much money, how do
Speaker 1: you respond to that? No one whatever told us that
Speaker 1: two and a half years ago we were losing two
Speaker 1: d fifty million dollars a year in Evada, And of
Speaker 1: course now we delivered a billion and a half dollars
Speaker 1: in Evada in the quarter. You know, we are increasingly
Speaker 1: investing more in the customer experience every year. The reason
Speaker 1: we're getting more profitable is we're more efficient. We're incredibly disciplined.
Speaker 1: We only have six thousand employees. We spent a lot
Speaker 1: less on marketing than any other travel company of our
Speaker 1: size in the online space. But you know, with air cover,
Speaker 1: we're investing a lot more in the customer experience this year.
Speaker 1: So we're going to continue to be more efficient, but
Speaker 1: we're going to continue to deliver more more for customers.
Speaker 1: And I also understand that people really care about value.
Speaker 1: They want to make sure that Airbnb is still a
Speaker 1: brand you can come to get a great value. We're
Speaker 1: known for affordable travel, and I know that people are
Speaker 1: really concerned about whether or not our our aerbans will
Speaker 1: continue to be affordable, and they will be. We're going
Speaker 1: to continue to focus and making sure our prices are competitive,
Speaker 1: and so that's what we're focused on. So let's talk
Speaker 1: about the transparency around pricing that you hinted at. I
Speaker 1: think we've all had that feeling of looking at a
Speaker 1: rental on Airbnb. Then we click all the way through
Speaker 1: and and the price change is given, all the fees,
Speaker 1: the cleaning fee, et cetera. What can we expect that
Speaker 1: transparency to look like? Well, yeah, and I think there's
Speaker 1: two things going on. The first is people, we want
Speaker 1: people to understand our pricing not be surprised. The second
Speaker 1: is we want to make sure that when they do
Speaker 1: see the final price, they feel really good about the
Speaker 1: final price and it's still a great value. So we
Speaker 1: are working on updating some of the designs for our
Speaker 1: platform to make everything even more intuitive, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: have some updates very very soon, so stay tuned. Let's
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about average daily rates. There's an
Speaker 1: expectation those are going to come under pressure in the
Speaker 1: next quarter given the strong dollar, if the bookings mix
Speaker 1: shifts to potentially cheaper rentals. Can you give us some
Speaker 1: insight on consumer preferences right now? What do consumers want
Speaker 1: that you're seeing through the holiday season and we're not
Speaker 1: seeing a major change. I mean, what I would say
Speaker 1: is the reason that price per night on abomy has
Speaker 1: gone up in the last couple of years is before
Speaker 1: the pandemic, most people were using Airbnb to cross the
Speaker 1: border and stay in a city and stay in a
Speaker 1: one bedroom, two bedroom a place. Now a lot of
Speaker 1: people are booking three, four or five bedroom homes and
Speaker 1: they're doing it because they're going with their friends, their families,
Speaker 1: their coworkers, or they're living in the house. And so
Speaker 1: now the average duol rates higher because the homes are bigger.
Speaker 1: What we think is when Asia recovers, that could moderate
Speaker 1: price per night a little bit. But that's a good
Speaker 1: thing because that will actually lead to a lot more
Speaker 1: volume because you get an entire continent to be traveling
Speaker 1: a lot more. And I do think you're gonna see
Speaker 1: that grow. So we actually are expecting a pretty stable
Speaker 1: average daily rate. We're not seeing major shifts and the
Speaker 1: way people use air VnB just yet. Long term stays
Speaker 1: still hugely popular. About of nights book give us some
Speaker 1: insight on that trend, because I wonder, is it plateau
Speaker 1: ing at all? Is it slowing down? I mean, is
Speaker 1: the growth that you saw there over No? No, I
Speaker 1: mean honestly, long term stays is still the fastest growing
Speaker 1: segment by length of state on Airbnb. Now because the
Speaker 1: short term states have recovered, it's now been stable at
Speaker 1: I do expect in the coming years ahead, though, long
Speaker 1: term stage will probably increasingly grow as a percentage of
Speaker 1: a business. And the reason why is because increasingly, I
Speaker 1: think more people are gonna be flexible, fewer people have leases.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying no one will, I'm just saying enough
Speaker 1: for this market to continue to grow. So this is
Speaker 1: gonna be a huge new grows owth opportunity for us
Speaker 1: in the coming years to come. It's so fascinating just
Speaker 1: how much how people use Airbnb has changed just in
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. Do you have any concern
Speaker 1: that Airbnb is over reliant potentially on long term stays. No, because, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we just got to make sure that each
Speaker 1: segment is growing and the long term stays aren't really
Speaker 1: coming at the cost of short term stays. So as
Speaker 1: long as short term stays continue to grow, think of
Speaker 1: it as another layer. It's kind of like Amazon sales
Speaker 1: books and now they sell electronics, now they sell another category.
Speaker 1: We don't think these categories will necessarily cannibalize. These are
Speaker 1: really different use cases, and a lot of people are
Speaker 1: coming Airbnb just to list monthly stays, so this I
Speaker 1: think can open up a lot. I actually think monthly
Speaker 1: stays can make short term stays more popular because some
Speaker 1: people might book an air be for a long term
Speaker 1: stay and say, hey, that wasn't so bad staying at
Speaker 1: someone else's home. Maybe I'll do it for a short
Speaker 1: term stay. So may actually have a way of bringing
Speaker 1: more customers into Airbnb. That's at least what we what
Speaker 1: our theory is interesting. You do have some analysts out
Speaker 1: there who seem to be thinking Airbnb is priced too
Speaker 1: high compared to some of your travel peers, especially if
Speaker 1: the bookings mixes changing. What are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1: I mean, our gusts still tell us that Aaron b
Speaker 1: is the best value. That being said, we do want
Speaker 1: to make sure that as the economy slows down, our
Speaker 1: value is even better. And we do know that hotels
Speaker 1: are starting to lower prices, and we want to make
Speaker 1: sure that our pricing is as dynamic. So what are
Speaker 1: things we're doing is we're investing a lot more in
Speaker 1: pricing tools for hosts so that they can have more
Speaker 1: dynamic pricing. And if hotels lower rates and they want
Speaker 1: to lower rates more competitive, they can do that. So
Speaker 1: I still think we'll offer a great value, but there
Speaker 1: is no question that there's a lot more we can
Speaker 1: be doing on value, and that's something we're gonna be
Speaker 1: really focused on over the next six months in time
Speaker 1: for next travel season. So longer term, I don't you know,
Speaker 1: obviously you've launched categories which I know you're really excited about.
Speaker 1: Supply is going to be key. How do you see
Speaker 1: growth in supply over the next two years compared to
Speaker 1: the growth you saw on supply over the last two years,
Speaker 1: And how do you convince all of these new would
Speaker 1: be hosts to choose Airbnb first and only potentially. I
Speaker 1: think it's a great question. Um well, let me say this.
Speaker 1: Number One, I expect a lot more new supply over
Speaker 1: the next two years than the last two years. Um.
Speaker 1: The last two years actually been pretty hard because of
Speaker 1: the pandemic. Not everyone wanted other people in their homes.
Speaker 1: I think the next two years they're gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot more interested for two reasons. Number One, the further
Speaker 1: the pandemic is behind us, the less resident they are.
Speaker 1: But more importantly, Emily, as you recall, we started during
Speaker 1: two thousand eight Airbnb during the Great Recession, and during
Speaker 1: the Great Recession a lot of people needed to make
Speaker 1: extra money and they turned to Airbnb to host for
Speaker 1: the first time. I think that's going to happen again.
Speaker 1: And the final thing I'll say, I'm gonna give a
Speaker 1: plug on November six at a a m. Eastern time.
Speaker 1: We're gonna enveil a whole new, super easy way to
Speaker 1: list your home on Airbnb, and I think that is
Speaker 1: going to be a big driver of a lot. More so,
Speaker 1: we have some really cool new products. They're going to
Speaker 1: be launching in fewer than two weeks, and I think
Speaker 1: that's going to add an acceleration. Alright, November sixteenth, we
Speaker 1: will be watching. Last question. Airbnb was started in the
Speaker 1: middle of the financial crisis. You obviously survived and thrived
Speaker 1: ultimately in the pandemic. What's your strategy on costs through
Speaker 1: this downturn? Are you considering M and A given all
Speaker 1: that cash and potentially opportunistic or advantageous valuations out there,
Speaker 1: you know, how are you mapping this out? Given we
Speaker 1: could be in this for a couple of years. That's
Speaker 1: a great question to um. Let me tell you a
Speaker 1: really important lesson I learned in the pandemic. You know,
Speaker 1: in between a February in in April of two thousand
Speaker 1: and twenty, we were one of the first companies hit
Speaker 1: by the pandemic. We lost eighty percent of our business
Speaker 1: in eight weeks, and a thousand of us gone to
Speaker 1: foxhol and we rebuilt the company fair ground up. And
Speaker 1: the company we rebuilt was a much smaller, much leaner,
Speaker 1: much more discipline company. The reason we did three billion
Speaker 1: dollars in free cash the last twelve months is because
Speaker 1: of that discipline and what I told the team is,
Speaker 1: no matter how good the economy is, no matter how
Speaker 1: bad the economy is, we are going to try to
Speaker 1: not ever run the company differently because of the economy.
Speaker 1: But you can only do that if you stay disciplined, right,
Speaker 1: You don't ever want to have to get more disciplined.
Speaker 1: So I said, we should be prepared for a storm.
Speaker 1: Whenever it comes. We're not going to change the way
Speaker 1: we're on the company. And because of that, beginning this year,
Speaker 1: we were only, for example, forecasting hiring seven percent more
Speaker 1: employees this year. When other tech comes, we're gonna hire.
Speaker 1: Now they have to pull back. We're not pulling back.
Speaker 1: In fact, we're not pulling on the brakes. We're gonna
Speaker 1: step on the gas. But stepping the gas doesn't mean
Speaker 1: we to spend a lot more money. It's just a
Speaker 1: lot more velocity to be a speed innovation and taking
Speaker 1: more market share. All right, Brian Chesky, we'll keep that
Speaker 1: in mind. CEO of Airbnb, thanks for making the time today, Brian,
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you very much. We're gonna be right
Speaker 1: back with more of Bloomberg Technology after this quick break.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. China is making moves that will severely
Speaker 1: curtailed shipments in and out of the world's largest iPhone factory.
Speaker 1: Beijing is imposing a seven day lockdown on the area
Speaker 1: in Jung Joe, this after the number of COVID cases
Speaker 1: in the city almost quadrupled from Monday to Tuesday. And
Speaker 1: it's a profit in sales miss for Paramount Global, the
Speaker 1: parent company of CBS, Nickelodeon, and MTV Networks, reporting earnings
Speaker 1: and the big problem continuing weakness in advertising. Still, there's
Speaker 1: been a turnaround in Paramounts Film Studio, with revenue up
Speaker 1: for in the third quarter and Top Gun Maverick is
Speaker 1: the highest grossing film so far this year. Meantime, Amazon
Speaker 1: also feeling the heat on its ad business and it's
Speaker 1: now taking more drastic measures to align expenses with a
Speaker 1: slowdown in sales. So it's just telling Bloomberg that the
Speaker 1: world's largest e commerce company is freezing staff level in
Speaker 1: its profitable ads business. Amazon will continue to fill vacancies
Speaker 1: in this unit, but won't create any new jobs. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to bloomber Technology and Emily Chang in San Francisco.
Speaker 1: The banking sector says people and businesses are paying more
Speaker 1: and more in the wake of ransomware attacks. Banks reported
Speaker 1: one point to billion dollars in ransomware payments last year alone,
Speaker 1: nearly five times as much as and that is just
Speaker 1: a taste of what Jeff Stone will explore with Bloomberg's
Speaker 1: weekly cyber Bulletin newsletter, including exclusive coverage inside the world
Speaker 1: of hackers and cyber espionage and how businesses are playing defense.
Speaker 1: Jeff tell us more about cyber Bulletin and what your
Speaker 1: goals are here. The goal here is to help people
Speaker 1: understand emily that cybersecurity is a lot more than ones
Speaker 1: and zeros in the latest big data breach, There's all
Speaker 1: kinds of characters involved in this world now, cryptocurrency fraud
Speaker 1: as part of this, disinformation as part of this, all
Speaker 1: kinds of influence operations, and everyone trying to monetize data.
Speaker 1: So that's what we're trying to explore here and really
Speaker 1: help people understand how they can protect themselves more urgently. Now.
Speaker 1: Cyber threats have been on the rise for a while.
Speaker 1: Why now are you launching this? We're busier than ever.
Speaker 1: Mostly we figured we'd take on one more project, but
Speaker 1: basically since since the invasion of Ukraine really has highlighted Uh,
Speaker 1: this big explosion of ransomware as you as you just
Speaker 1: alluded to, UM, it is urgent for people to get
Speaker 1: a better sense of really what these threats look like
Speaker 1: and how to respond in cyberspace. Again, I think people
Speaker 1: are used to this world of email scams and different
Speaker 1: kinds of fraud through your apps that you're still trying
Speaker 1: to get a handle on. But we're really going to
Speaker 1: dig in and help people, um straighten out how to
Speaker 1: protect themselves at a more urgent time than ever. All right, Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: Jeff Stone. You can sign up for that weekly Bloomberg
Speaker 1: cyber Bulletin newsletter at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks, Jeff. We'll
Speaker 1: stay tuned well for more on the state of cybersecurity.
Speaker 1: I want to bring in Christopher Alberg, the CEO of
Speaker 1: the cybersecurity firm Recorded Future, which is actively tracking the
Speaker 1: cybersecurity threat level in Ukraine. Uh, Chris, give us the
Speaker 1: latest there. You've been involved for for several months. Now,
Speaker 1: tell us what you're most worried about at this time,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's really interesting. We started basically we
Speaker 1: had worked a little bit with one particular part of
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian government, their national search on the morning of
Speaker 1: the four February, we sort of stood up publicly can
Speaker 1: check out our nice tweet on that, and said, look,
Speaker 1: we would get behind these guys and and help them
Speaker 1: in every every in any way we can. And so
Speaker 1: now our our intelligence platform is in the hands of
Speaker 1: seven agencies over there, and look, it's it's been interesting,
Speaker 1: uh AT. In the lead up of the war, there
Speaker 1: was a whole bunch of Russian activity at the very
Speaker 1: sort of crossover into the war. They killed a bunch
Speaker 1: of communications and infrastructure. The Russians has taken a part
Speaker 1: a bunch of systems. They have certainly been running a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of destructive malware campaigns against uh called Ukrainian power,
Speaker 1: infrastructure and the like ongoingly. What's actually been very impressive
Speaker 1: is how the Ukrainians, together with foreign firms and foreign
Speaker 1: intelligence agencies and help people helping them, have been able
Speaker 1: to withstand this. That's actually the most impressive. But the
Speaker 1: dear Russians are ongoingly going at it, and we may
Speaker 1: not hear too much about it because office is as
Speaker 1: much as when bullets and the like fly in the air,
Speaker 1: a lot of other things may go to the back.
Speaker 1: But it's it's full full speed head there. For sure.
Speaker 1: You've been donating software g political intelligence to Ukrainian agencies.
Speaker 1: How long are you prepared to do this for no
Speaker 1: no ending, no ending to that. We we came out
Speaker 1: and said we would go in all in and and
Speaker 1: try to help them in every way we could. We
Speaker 1: announced the big hiring initiative or hiring another hundred people
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. We're sort of to your point. We've given
Speaker 1: them software and access to our intelligence cloud in seven
Speaker 1: different agencies and they're using it to to go at
Speaker 1: cyber attacks, disinformation and helping on the battlefield. We think
Speaker 1: it's been quite impactful. You know, obviously we can only
Speaker 1: do our little part, but we will do it as
Speaker 1: long as it can, as we as we can and
Speaker 1: help them in every way they can. They need to
Speaker 1: to be able to help them basically crush the Russians,
Speaker 1: because that's I think what this is all about. If
Speaker 1: I'm slightly blunt, are We've got some big midterm elections
Speaker 1: coming up in the United States? How would you rate
Speaker 1: the cyber threat level more broadly and what are you
Speaker 1: most concerned about when it comes to these upcoming elections?
Speaker 1: So I would say that it's interesting that there's sort
Speaker 1: of the broad sort of set of disinformation activity around
Speaker 1: that is ongoing, and it's sort of at the same
Speaker 1: level as we saw in I think there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of good work done by the U. S. Government
Speaker 1: as a lot of other sort of of firms, whether
Speaker 1: it's the social media firms and people sort of on
Speaker 1: top of that in terms of sort of fighting back
Speaker 1: on some of this. The Russians are still there by
Speaker 1: no no question. I lay the Internet Research Agency in
Speaker 1: Saint Petersburg. They're still trying to go at it, targeting
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit sort of very targeted audiences that
Speaker 1: they can come at. They obviously are quite busy on
Speaker 1: the home front. The Iranians have also been pretty busy
Speaker 1: on the home front, so maybe not not as much
Speaker 1: we we could all have read over the last couple
Speaker 1: of days about some interesting things with the Chinese are
Speaker 1: going at it. So there are threats there, but I
Speaker 1: think we're will be in good shape. The election is
Speaker 1: gonna be safe. It's gonna be a good election. And
Speaker 1: and even though these guys are trying, I think we're
Speaker 1: doing better. So what's keeping you up at night right now?
Speaker 1: That we're not talking about enough. So I think it's
Speaker 1: you because obviously you know you've heard it in Jeff
Speaker 1: sort of point here just now. There's plenty of cyber
Speaker 1: activity and it's not great. But I think we haven't
Speaker 1: been really sorted yet. I like to say that over
Speaker 1: the last twenty five years, the world of sort of
Speaker 1: slowly migrated onto the Internet. Uh, next twenty five years,
Speaker 1: the Internet is sort of where it starts and the
Speaker 1: world ends up being a reflection of the Internet. Whether
Speaker 1: it's world power or business, or currency or money or identity,
Speaker 1: it all is going to emerge out of the Internet.
Speaker 1: And in that world, we better have our act together.
Speaker 1: We think that is an incredible opportunity to build an
Speaker 1: intelligence company. We want to be the Bloomberg of cyber
Speaker 1: if you want. But in that but the world better
Speaker 1: habits act together because the this Internet centric world is
Speaker 1: going to be quite wild, and so we better all
Speaker 1: be all be ready for a ride. I wonder how
Speaker 1: you think about, you know, Elon Musk taking over at
Speaker 1: Twitter potentially having a more open minded approach to to
Speaker 1: content moderation. Does the world to have its act together?
Speaker 1: So so dangerous subject to get into. I think he'll
Speaker 1: do good with it. I'm sort of a very positive person,
Speaker 1: even though I maybe sound a little bit scared there before.
Speaker 1: I think he will have new smart ways to go
Speaker 1: out condom moderation. Uh you know so, so I'm an
Speaker 1: optimist about that. But you know, and if he screws
Speaker 1: it up, the dangerous part or not dangerous dangerous part
Speaker 1: for him is that these are pretty fleeting sort of audiences.
Speaker 1: They'll go anywhere else. And and you know, actually maybe
Speaker 1: one danger here is that if he doesn't handle this
Speaker 1: one well, we might see too much of this audience
Speaker 1: going over in the hands of TikTok. And to be honest,
Speaker 1: I'd much rather have Ill and Musk run a great
Speaker 1: platform or even maybe not such a great platform here
Speaker 1: in the United States than having our sort of upcoming
Speaker 1: generations living their social life on TikTok. I take to
Speaker 1: take take Twitter over that any day. And why is that?
Speaker 1: Because I think if our dear Chinese friends are controlling
Speaker 1: the information flow on TikTok, when they're that sort of
Speaker 1: controlling the news flow, being able to intercept communications on
Speaker 1: that in that sort of you know, much too too
Speaker 1: much control in the hands of the Chinese government to
Speaker 1: be Frank or Chinese intelligence, and he said, not a
Speaker 1: good thing. All right, Well, appreciate you navigating waiting into
Speaker 1: some tricky territory with ask Christopher Allberg, CEO of Recorded Future,
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your thoughts here. We'll have to
Speaker 1: have you back soon. Coming up the line between traditional
Speaker 1: finance and de centralized finance, getting blurb, We're going to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about how next this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: I think some people have avoided this asset class. It's
Speaker 1: very risky. It's not appropriate for everyone. In fact, when
Speaker 1: you buy cryptocurrency on so far we say this is
Speaker 1: a risky asset, it's unproven and you could lose all
Speaker 1: of your money. So um what prices down at this level,
Speaker 1: we are seeing people take an opportunity to um, you know,
Speaker 1: experiment with this type of investment and get to know
Speaker 1: the asset better. So if it's Anthony Noto there earlier
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg. As the worlds of traditional finance and defy
Speaker 1: continue to collide, Bloomberg Shonnali Bossik here to explain more.
Speaker 1: What is happening? Should I take it away? Emily, I
Speaker 1: think it's really important to listen to what Anthony Noo
Speaker 1: over it. So far I had to say about crypto
Speaker 1: because there are a traditional financial technology firm that successfully
Speaker 1: acquired a bank and that has helped it really rain
Speaker 1: in a lot of deposit or money from clients, which
Speaker 1: then can potentially be used to do things like by
Speaker 1: a little crypto in a downturn or invest elsewhere. The
Speaker 1: real reality is options here to borrow, to buy asset,
Speaker 1: and to to deposit your money for safekeeping at uh
Speaker 1: you know, so far a higher interest rate than many
Speaker 1: other large banks. That is the choice that you're faced
Speaker 1: with at the end of the day. So that rolls
Speaker 1: us forward too soon after that interview we did with
Speaker 1: the SOFI CEO to comments that were made by the
Speaker 1: CEO of Binance, we know that Finance had considered making
Speaker 1: up as much of a billion dollars or more worth
Speaker 1: of acquisitions, and you have c Z now talking about
Speaker 1: the idea of buying a bank. There are people who
Speaker 1: hold certain types of local licenses, traditional banking, payment service providers,
Speaker 1: even banks, and we're looking at those things, he says,
Speaker 1: And we want to be the bridge between crypto and
Speaker 1: the traditional financial world, he says, So what does that
Speaker 1: really look like? At the end of the day, when
Speaker 1: you think about, you know, Binance getting more into traditional finance,
Speaker 1: can they do it successfully similar to how we've seen
Speaker 1: FinTechs like Sophi do it. They did it by buying
Speaker 1: a bank for less than a billion dollars and getting
Speaker 1: that banking license. I want to show you here what
Speaker 1: it looks like in terms of multiples though, because if
Speaker 1: you look at what it means to be a bank
Speaker 1: or buy a bank. Even coin Base, with that huge
Speaker 1: draw down you've seen in the stock this year, you're
Speaker 1: still seeing them trade at a higher price to earnings
Speaker 1: than you are seeing the biggest banks of the United States,
Speaker 1: both regional and large investment banks trade at that is,
Speaker 1: between nine and eleven times earnings, and you're seeing coin
Speaker 1: based trade at a higher multiple. And when you look
Speaker 1: back again at what cz had said is that when
Speaker 1: traditional crypto firms do pair with finance firms, you do
Speaker 1: see the stock tend to jump of those finance firms.
Speaker 1: And he says by partnering with those companies, maybe taking
Speaker 1: a stake or buying out right, what you can get
Speaker 1: potentially is a higher multiple both for finance and that
Speaker 1: financial firm. So it will be interesting to see what
Speaker 1: kind of deals come out of finance and others as
Speaker 1: we move along, not just through partnership like we've seen
Speaker 1: for the last year or so, but by pure money
Speaker 1: put into traditional financial firms by firms that have gotten
Speaker 1: so large in the cryptospased like finance. All right, Shnali,
Speaker 1: so much more to come there, I know, Shnally boss,
Speaker 1: thank you. Let's take a look now at the behind
Speaker 1: the scenes of one of the world's most influential tech
Speaker 1: companies in China and the world, and that is Ali Baba.
Speaker 1: It's the topic of a new book from a former
Speaker 1: Ali Baba executive called The Tao of Ali Baba. Inside
Speaker 1: the Chinese digital Giant that is changing the world. So
Speaker 1: how did Ali Baba take on the world and what's
Speaker 1: it got coming? Next? Let's bring in author Brian Wong
Speaker 1: for more, a former top Ali Baba executives. So, Brian,
Speaker 1: you were the first American that worked at Ali Baba,
Speaker 1: the fifty second employee and a special assistant to Jack Ma.
Speaker 1: So you've seen some things. We should say. What do
Speaker 1: you think is Ali Baba and Jack Ma's secret sauce? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, Emily I, I wrote this book because I
Speaker 1: really wanted to share what my understanding and perception was
Speaker 1: from the nearly twe years I was with the company
Speaker 1: about you know, the essence of sort of Jack Ma
Speaker 1: and Ali Baba, And I think, you know, to put
Speaker 1: it in very um basic terms is uh, Jack really
Speaker 1: um was able to build a company around a very
Speaker 1: deep purpose of solving the world's problems. He uh, he
Speaker 1: created a culture that was very um, optimistic and positive,
Speaker 1: and he was able to align an organization to all
Speaker 1: focus on that that mission, but at the same time
Speaker 1: give them the flexibility to adapt to the constantly changing
Speaker 1: world in the industry that it's operating in order to
Speaker 1: for to become successful. So I've seen the company recreate
Speaker 1: itself over and over over these last twenty years, and
Speaker 1: I think really at the essence of it was what
Speaker 1: I called the Tao. But it's really this kind of um,
Speaker 1: really strong, mission driven and purpose driven organization and culture
Speaker 1: that Jack helped to create. So the question is, can
Speaker 1: Ali Baba reinvent itself again? When the company tried to
Speaker 1: globalize a few years back, it didn't quite work. Should
Speaker 1: Ali Baba revive those ambitions now? And will it work
Speaker 1: when there's others pushing for d globalization. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the amazing things about the company throughout its
Speaker 1: history is how resilient it's been. You know, when it
Speaker 1: was very small, it faced some existential crises. UM. Before COVID,
Speaker 1: there was something called Stars and it was a very
Speaker 1: small company, and the company actually mobilized itself without even
Speaker 1: the direction of the leaders. But the staff came together
Speaker 1: and figured out ways to keep the company operating in
Speaker 1: its early years, but also to launch what we now
Speaker 1: know as one of the major retail businesses called Talbao
Speaker 1: during a lockdown period when you didn't have the conveniences
Speaker 1: that we have today in terms of mobile connectivity in devices.
Speaker 1: So I believe that the company, with its d n
Speaker 1: A and the culture that's been really established in uh
Speaker 1: you know, institutionalized with Ali Baba, it does have great
Speaker 1: potential to continue to grow. But also, as you ask globalized, yes,
Speaker 1: I think that UM, the world now really needs some
Speaker 1: you know, positive forces UM that utilize you know, things
Speaker 1: like technology to actually improve society and frankly, to solve
Speaker 1: a lot of the problems that we're facing. UM, not
Speaker 1: not just in the developed world, but in the emerging markets.
Speaker 1: That said, China's COVID zero policies have had a myriad
Speaker 1: of potentially negative impacts when you're talking about the supply
Speaker 1: chain and you know, basic consumer demand and execution. Some
Speaker 1: people say Ali Baba's glory days are over. What do
Speaker 1: you think, sure, Well, look, I think the challenges of
Speaker 1: zero COVID and the supply chain are more of a
Speaker 1: larger national issue that needs to be resolved, and I
Speaker 1: think the country is trying to work through that. You know,
Speaker 1: we may agree or disagree with how they're handling it,
Speaker 1: but really this is something that needs to take place
Speaker 1: on a national level and then eventually, you know, the
Speaker 1: companies can get back on their feet and do the
Speaker 1: things they need to do. I do think, though, this
Speaker 1: experience has really built up really strong capacity in terms
Speaker 1: of with uncertainty, and if you look at how companies
Speaker 1: like Ali Baba, you know, we're able to adapt to
Speaker 1: the situation over the years. I think they're going to
Speaker 1: come out stronger once this is all done. The question is, though,
Speaker 1: how does big tech survive in President She's China. When
Speaker 1: Beijing crackdown on the ant I p O, it basically
Speaker 1: put a scarlet letter on Ali Baba and jack Ma himself,
Speaker 1: what's the way out. Well, look, I think the anti
Speaker 1: I p O situation was one of of of a
Speaker 1: string of events that happened, and probably uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it was so high profile because it was at the
Speaker 1: start of this kind of change in policy. But also yes,
Speaker 1: it was a very major decision and quite sudden. But
Speaker 1: I do think that, you know, what this really indicates
Speaker 1: is a shift in terms of government policy, one that
Speaker 1: was previously kind of a late touch sort of governance
Speaker 1: model where it allowed for room for innovation, to one
Speaker 1: where it's more heavily regulated. But this is a global issue.
Speaker 1: If you think about what we're deal with now in
Speaker 1: the upcoming Supreme Court decisions in terms of anti trust
Speaker 1: and privacy in these issues, this is America, in Europe
Speaker 1: we're dealing with this, and also China, and this is
Speaker 1: where big tech has become, you know, big and influential
Speaker 1: um and governments are trying to figure out how to
Speaker 1: how to manage this. So I do think that each
Speaker 1: respective country and it's it's governments will figure out the
Speaker 1: solution of the policy for that. But I do think
Speaker 1: if you're if you're asking about opportunities down the road. UM,
Speaker 1: there are definitely new opportunities in the market. UM, you know,
Speaker 1: in higher quality sort of UM you know industries or
Speaker 1: or or or you know areas. UM. Chinese soundary trying
Speaker 1: to upgrade its industrial capacity and how companies can play
Speaker 1: in those spaces is really going to be the secret
Speaker 1: to their future growth and success if they can really
Speaker 1: tap into that. Jack mass still hasn't been seen publicly
Speaker 1: in some time. When is the last time you spoke
Speaker 1: with him? Where do you think he is and how
Speaker 1: is he doing well? You know, I've been in touch
Speaker 1: with Jack, you know, throughout the last two years and
Speaker 1: and and um in communication and you know he's been
Speaker 1: he's been free to move around. He's been laying low obviously. UM.
Speaker 1: You know he's traveled abroad. UM. You know people have
Speaker 1: mentioned they've seen him in Europe and other places in Asia.
Speaker 1: But I think he's really um Emily, he's gearing up
Speaker 1: for his next act, which is really around philanthropy, education,
Speaker 1: you know, helping uh those areas uh that really need assistance. UM.
Speaker 1: And it's a passion of his is to really help
Speaker 1: those who are kind of the more marginalized parts of
Speaker 1: society to really get on their feet rural communities. Um
Speaker 1: but also learning. You know, I think he was doing
Speaker 1: a lot of learning tours, uh in his last two years.
Speaker 1: UM So, so I think he's okay, but I think
Speaker 1: that a lot of people have been wondering. And hopefully
Speaker 1: at some point, you know, he will have his next
Speaker 1: sort of uh, you know, big thing to come out
Speaker 1: in terms of what he wants to do in philanthropy
Speaker 1: and people will know. Brian Wong, former Ali Baba, executive
Speaker 1: author of the Tao of Ali Baba Inside the Chinese
Speaker 1: Digital Giant that's changing the world. Thanks so much Brian
Speaker 1: for joining us. And that does it. For this edition
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Technology Thursday, we've got the CEO of Aurora,
Speaker 1: Chris Urmson, talking about big changes and challenges ahead for
Speaker 1: self driving technology. I'm Emily Sharing in San Francisco. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg