WEBVTT - Shouzi Chew 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.600 More than one million people around the world visit TikTok 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.680 every month, but with immense growth comes scrutiny and competition. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.160 In this episode of the David Rubinstein Show Peer to 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:17.560 Peer Conversations, I sit down with TikTok CEO shows E 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:21.400 two to discuss TikTok's future and also find out if 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.520 I could become TikTok famous. Now. I am older than 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.479 many of your TikTok followers. I believe I maybe you 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:30.560 have some people my age, but my impression is it's 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.960 for younger people. Is that wrong? There is really something 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.600 for everyone on TikTok. I would I would have you 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.040 installed TikTok yet do it? Well? I'm not an expert 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:43.040 on TikTok. I have looked at it, but I haven't 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.120 seen anything that you know looks like me. I think 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.519 you may be surprised, uh. For for example, for example, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:52.800 there was something called book talk on on TikTok. It 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.840 is a hashtag and it really is a trend where 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.800 people share short videos on their favorite books. And you'd 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:01.600 be probce how many views they have. We have forty 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:05.640 billion views on book talk alone. There are many other categories. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.919 There is clean talk, which is about people cleaning thirty 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:12.280 billion views. You know, I personally am a very amateur golfer. 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.080 Hashtag golf has more than ten billion views on TikTok 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:18.400 as well, So I believe there is something for everyone. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.240 The way we want to present this is we have 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:28.360 a machine learning recommendation engine which personalizes your experience when 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:30.320 you use TikTok, and we believe there's something for you 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:35.120 as well. Okay, so can anybody put a video on TikTok, Yes, 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.399 very easily. All right, How do you control of somebody 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.720 puts something on that's dangerous or pornographic or or not appropriate. 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.280 This is a great question. One of the most important 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.760 things that I have been focusing on since I took 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.320 on the role nearly a year ago. It's on the 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:53.240 safety of our platform is something we take absolutely seriously, 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.720 and we have elevated this as a top priority for 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.480 myself and for the company. We put a significant amount 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.520 of investment into it h and we believe that we 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.400 need to continue to invest in trust and safety to 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.400 stay ahead of our growth because of the growth of 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:13.280 the platform. So, for example, making sure that making sure 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:18.239 that our community guidelines which are published transparently online, are 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.440 well understood by our users, making sure that we have 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.399 the tools and the capabilities to ensure a safe environment, 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.560 a safe and inclusive environment on our platform, so that 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.640 our users feelings I feel like feel that is a 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.320 trusted environment to to publish and to inspire the creativity 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.600 they want to. So let's suppose I want to be 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.920 a TikTok person. I want to be on TikTok, but 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:42.919 I have to make a living. Um can I make 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:44.880 a living by just being on TikTok or the people 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.720 that make a living just by being on TikTok. Most 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.280 of our users come on TikTok to to share how 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.760 they feel into to inspire, you know, to inspire the world. 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.760 But there are people who come on TikTok, and this 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.760 is something we're extremely proud of. Um. We have an 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.440 able them. We have given them the platform and the 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.320 tools to actually make a proper living. And most of 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:09.280 these are small businesses or individuals. I can give you 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.359 an example. I have been looking at my own TikTok 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:18.160 recently and I saw this video on t case Surf 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.639 and Turf. It is a restaurant in Denver. I think 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:26.800 it's the first black owned, family operated seafood restaurant in Denver. Uh. 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.400 What I've heard is during the pandemic, business was poor 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:34.000 for a lot of restaurants, including them. But what what 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.040 one creator did was to create videos on what, you know, 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:40.160 how great the restaurant was. It became an overnight sensation. 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.040 It went viral, and our business is booming for for 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.520 that company. So and there are thousands upon thousands of 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.520 examples like that across the US and across the world. 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:51.360 And well, you know, this is something that we are 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.400 immensely proud of that we have a platform the small 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:58.640 businesses can make use of to get to grow their business. 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.160 Spose I want to be a TikTok performer and I 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.600 want to get paid for it. Do I do something 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.440 that says this restaurant is great and hopefully restaurant won't 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.560 pay me. Is that how people get paid by being 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.200 on TikTok. There are several mechanisms to do it. The 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.279 first is if you become if you have enough followers, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.120 certain brands will get in touch with you, either through 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.000 us or otherwise two for you to represent their brand, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.360 So you become the brand ambassador. So that's one way. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.000 Some of our creators get paid. Beyond that, we have 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.360 provided them with tools to monetize, you know, to get 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.160 in touch with the followers and the monetize that that 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:38.640 that as well. For example, we have a live streaming service, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.159 so as a creator, you can you can launch, you 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.280 can have a live streaming session and that is an exclusive, 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:49.120 exclusive session where you can interact with the followers and 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.520 your followers can give you virtual gifts, and that's one 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.000 way you can monetize. The other example is e commerce. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.800 We provide our creators with the tools to be able 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.240 to sell merchandise on the atform as well. This is 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.360 do a new part of our business, but it's something 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.719 that people are very very excited about. How do you 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.560 make money? Then other words, somebody goes on TikTok and 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.360 they're making money for this restaurant in in Denver, How 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.760 do you make any money? We make money primarily through 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:19.599 advertising and also providing services like live streaming and decommon 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.200 style uses. And we we do have a service fee 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.120 that that we charge to provide those services. But if 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.120 somebody just uploads their video on TikTok, do they pay 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.360 you a fee for that or not? No, it's absolutely free. 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.280 Are there companies now that specialized in making people TikTok stars. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.200 Somebody says, I want to be on TikTok. I want 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.680 people to watch me. Maybe I can sell my my 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.400 services to an advertising company or some way. Um, there 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.680 are the people that polish up people's TikTok presentations the 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.920 way our platform works, and my advice to anyone who 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.040 wants to be famous on our platform is to just 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.560 beat themselves. What we have found is that this community 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.640 is is This community wants real tent, They want the 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.839 real roar content. They want to see people being themselves. 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:08.200 So um, the many people tell me it's a breath 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.000 of fresh air, is the sunny corner of the internet. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.320 So my advice to anyone who wants to be famous 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:18.360 is really to beat themselves. So recently, Mark Zuckerberg announced 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.280 at his quarterly earnings after explaining why the stock went 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:27.880 down by as a result of the declining use of Facebook, 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.279 he attributed to TikTok and TikTok was becoming a big rival. 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.800 He said, how did it feel to be blamed by 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:38.880 Mark Zuckerberg for the decline and value of Facebook? We 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.880 are a very young company at this point, and they 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.039 are still very big competitors in the market. Some of 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.479 them have been around for a long time with a 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.080 lot of resources. So the way we look at it, 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.000 there's still a long way for us to go in 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:55.640 terms of achieving the mission that we want to achieve. 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.440 We think that there are a number of things that 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.039 makes us unique in the market. The first is that 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.640 we are pineers in what we do. We have innovated 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.800 this form of short video combined with a four you feed, 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.520 and we are confident that in the coming years we 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.120 will continue to innovate on that front and bring the 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.120 best and the most interesting value proposition to our use this. 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:21.960 So if Mark Zuckerberg we're here, would just say, don't 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:24.080 worry about us, We're not a big competition to you, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.640 or we'll just say we're coming after you. I think 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.280 for us, David, we are more focused on ourselves. I 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.520 think over the long run, the biggest competitor that we 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.680 have as Cliche is going to sound is going to 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.320 be ourselves. We have a mission which is to inspire 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.600 creativity and to bring joy, and we believe that our 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.360 most important focus is to focus on delivering that mission. 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.680 But let me ask you this, most of the large 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.680 Chinese technology companies. Let's say Ali Baba, Bai Do ten Cent. 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.560 They have gigantic market values and they're very prominent in China. 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.240 Not as prominent outside of China as obviously in China, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.240 and certainly not that prominent the United States. TikTok, by contrast, 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.880 is not in China, but it's gigantic outside of China, 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.000 the United States and everywhere. What did TikTok do that 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:15.080 enabled a Chinese based company parent company at least to 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.600 do so well outside of China. We think it's challenging 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.440 to build a global company in general, but the best 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.280 ones we have seen so far are ones that take 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:31.520 very consistent global learnings in adapt them to the local, 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.360 to the local, to the local countries that they are 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.000 operating in. So you need to be global and local 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.840 at the same time. And it's something that we're investing in. 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.839 For example, here in the US, we have a very 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.800 sizable team here in New York and Austin in l 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.760 A at this point in UH, becoming more local is 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.280 something we will continue to invest in. Okay, let's talk 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.000 about the beginning of of TikTok. So what is byte 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.960 dance byke Dance was the parent company, When was byte 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.400 Dance started and who was they founder a byte Dance. 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.840 I was very fortunate about ten years ago to have 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.320 to have had the chance to participate in the company 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:14.320 as an investor. Back Dance was founded in t Bye Eiming, 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.600 and the original Like any good start up story, the 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.560 original the original product has evolved over time and there 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.480 were many hits and mrs you know, as in the 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:28.040 evolution of the company. One thing that has remained very 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:32.200 consistent for Bye Dance is the mission. The mission for 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.760 by Dance today is to inspire creativity and to enrich life. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.959 And what I've noticed over the course of the decade 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.800 that I've known the company is that they have been 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.080 very consistent in wanting to deliver this mission to as 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.839 many people as possible and driven by this mission. What 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.560 struck me in the early days of by Dance was 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:56.520 the desire to be mobile, the focus on machine learning recommendation, 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.839 and this desire to be global, and it's been very 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.640 system over the last ten years. I should disclose that 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.800 my own investment company is an investor in Bye Dance. 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:07.480 We took an investment a number of years ago and 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.040 then I assume it will be a good investment. I 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.680 don't know. But let's talk about how TikTok evolved out 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.240 of byte Dance. So when did TikTok come along. The 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:17.839 original apps that were developed by byte Dance had a 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.400 very similar concept, which was to recommend content to use 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:26.800 this based on machine learning. Machine learning algorithms that tries 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.280 to understand the user's behavior. The first iteration of it 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.120 that was successful was a news app, so it took 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.640 news content and it recommended news to use this based 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:40.720 on their own behavior on the app. Now, sometime between 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.920 sixteen that evolved into short video and that evolved into TikTok. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.280 And did anybody think it would turn out to be 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:52.680 as global phenomenon at the beginning? No? No, all right, 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:57.480 So let me ask you about TikTok and regulation. Under 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.240 President Trump, there was a concern that certain information that 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.240 TikTok was getting from people using TikTok was somehow going 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.800 to be detrimental to the United States, and there was 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:10.679 an effort to force TikTok to sell its US business. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.000 What happened to that effort. We believe that our approach 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.880 to all the governments that regulators around the world is 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.920 to be collaborative and to be very transparent, to be 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.000 available to explain what we do and who we are, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.480 and answer any questions that we have. That's the approach 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.120 we have taken in that approach has been an approach 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.520 that has been very beneficial for us over the course 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.760 of the last few years. But there was a proposal 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.800 at one point that require you to sell the TikTok 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:43.719 business in the US. I think it was going to 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.880 be sold perhaps to Larry Elson's company Oracle. Is that 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.079 off the table now and right now you're not being 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.440 forced to sell anything. Is that right? We have moved 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.360 beyond that conversation. It is okay. And the current administration 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.040 and bid the administration have they picked up the cudgels 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.360 and said, well, we want to engage in the same fighter. 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.560 Right now, you don't have to worry about that again. 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.319 We are taking the approach now to be very transparent, 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.280 to be very engaged, very collaborative, and to answer any 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.600 questions that they may have. Okay, But the biggest concern 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:15.480 that people had, at least some people in the Trump 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.440 administration had it, maybe other people, is that the data 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.200 that you have on your computers about who's watching what. 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.200 I presume the data you have would somehow get fed 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.559 back to China and China would have it for its 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.400 use the Chinese government. Is that true that your data 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.079 is subject of being given to or you're forced to 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:36.720 give it the Chinese government. We disagree with that the 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.160 ways TikTok is set up today. First of all, TikTok 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.520 is not available for download in China. It operates outside 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:47.880 of China. The datas the data for TikTok uses is 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.080 thought in Virginia and in Singapore, with the backup in Singapore, 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.760 uh and we believe that we have a very rigorous 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.960 and robust system to protect the data security of our uses. 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.480 What do you do with the data? So let's suppose 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.520 I on TikTok and I like certain kinds of things 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.199 to watch. You presumably can in your algorithms know that 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:06.920 what do you do with that? That you sell it 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.040 to another company or do you do nothing with it? 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.760 It is our recommendation engine. The best way to think 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:17.760 about it is that it's just pure mathematics. It's it. 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:21.040 It digests the behavior that ill uses have on our platform, 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.880 including likes. You know what videos do you like? The comments? 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.319 How long you stay on the particular video, so on 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.120 and so forth. So signals like behavioral signals like that, 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:34.120 and it recommends him, It recommends the content that you 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.640 could potentially be most entertained by. So so that's really 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.280 how the that's really how the data is being used 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:43.400 on our platform. And how many countries are you in 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:47.640 now outside of China and India essentially all the other 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:52.359 every country? Okay? And today you have something that's proprietary 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.640 such that somebody couldn't come along and compete. In other words, 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.360 there's always people coming along trying to disrupt companies, and 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:00.000 that certainly happens a lot in the tech where all 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.240 are you worried that somebody is going to come along 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.720 with a new product that's slightly better than yours or 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.160 do you think it's unlikely given how dominant you are 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.640 in the business now, David, This this is a very 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.200 competitive space and in our industry there are players with 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.800 like but bigger muscles. They have more resources, they have 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.520 been around for a longer period of time, and I 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:22.720 think it keeps us on our toes. No, we have 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.320 you know, we have our strengths. We are pineers in this. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.000 You know, we believe that We are innovative and we 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.560 will continue to innovate. And we have a very unique 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.440 community that we talked about that that we believe is 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:39.680 very special and not easily replicable. So we have our advantages. 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.120 We are confident, but at the same time, competition is 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.480 very intense. Now China has been a little tougher, some 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.560 people would say, on Chinese tech companies than it was 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.320 a year or two ago, and there's been what some 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.400 people would say clamp down on Chinese tech companies. Has 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:58.160 that affected you in any way? I think in in 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.840 in this day and age, we have to be very 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.480 collaborative and be very transparent and have an active dialogue 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.840 with regulators and governments around the world to help them 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.480 understand our business and to answer any questions that you 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:12.960 may have. As I mentioned earlier, my my firm did 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:15.680 invest in it, but I don't have any inside information, 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:16.760 and I don't know if you're going to give me 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.440 the inside information. But is there any plan to take 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:23.640 Bite Dance public at some point? Our current focus, given 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.040 the growth of our company, is to really focus on 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.880 the business. There's just so much we can do, especially 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.280 for TikTok that really our management focuses on growing the 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.440 business at this point and making sure that we are 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.840 investing in the right things that we invest in. At 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.320 some point we will access the capital markets. At some 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:43.240 point we will, but that is really not the priority 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.120 at this point. And when you go go into the 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:48.920 public markets, what do you think when your public documents 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.880 are revealed will be the biggest surprise. It's the size 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.520 of the platform or the profitability of it. What do 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.360 you think is likely to be the biggest surprise. That's 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.040 a very good question. I need to go back and 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.880 think about it. I think most of what we do 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:07.080 is is followed and many people sort of you know, 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.760 thankfully you have a lot of interest in in our 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.240 business today, so I'm not sure whether there will be 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.800 any big surprises. Let's talk about your own background. So 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.800 you mentioned your Singapore and were you born in Singapore. 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.600 I am born in Singapore, okay, And did you go 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.040 to college and high school in Singapore. The thing about 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.840 growing up in a small island like Singapore, David, is 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:29.640 you get won the lust at a very young age. 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.760 It's a tropical paradise. It's a tiny island. I love it, 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.600 but it's very small. So after high school and after 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.760 the National Service. We have National service there. I, you know, 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.440 went to the UK for college and then subsequently to 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:45.720 hear in the US V Business School where I and 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.000 my wife. All right, you went to Harvard Business School? 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.600 I did? And so how do you think Harvard Business 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.120 School was? Was it smarter? The people they're smarter than 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:54.600 your thought or not as smart as you thought they'd 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:56.720 It was a great I had a great time there. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.080 The most important moment was I met my wife in 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.560 business school, So to me, this is a you know, 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.840 it was a great two years. Okay. So you graduate 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.320 from Harvard Business School in what year? All right? So 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.959 what did you do then? After business school? I joined 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:16.800 an investment company called DST which invests in internet companies. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.000 Is this your A Milners company? Yes? And so what 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.760 did you do for him? You look for Internet related investments. 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.159 That's what I did, okay? And how many years were 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.560 you there? I was there for about five years, and 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.920 it was doing this time that I got to meet 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.680 and meet and invest in Byte Dance. Okay, So after 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:36.960 you left your A Milners operation, what did you do? 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.280 I joined a company called shell Me, where I initially 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.080 was the CFO and then ran the global operations for 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.040 the company. Okay, so you did that for a while 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:48.960 and then a head hunter called you up and said, 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:50.920 guess what we want you to come to Bite Dance 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.080 or how did that happen? It wasn't a head hunter. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.120 The I've stayed very close to the folks and Bitte 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.360 Dance because of my early relationship with them, so they 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.960 reached out. There's a little known fact about me, which 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.160 is I used to be a creator. I actually had 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:11.240 a hundred and eighty five thousand follow us on that account, 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.480 and so I've had to go through that process of 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.600 learning how to connect with my followers and using the product, 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.639 and it was an amazing way. I found the product 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.959 so amazing in terms of being being able to communicate 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.680 the messages I wanted to my followers. So I love 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:29.800 the product. I've known the team for a long time. 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.440 I think that the mission is something that I really 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.080 truly believe in. So when the opportunity opened up, it 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:40.640 was very organic for me to trave ad followers. Now 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.399 I did you did? Now you've given them up? Or 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.280 what do you have now? That account was used to 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.600 sell products. So I have since transitioned into a sort 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:52.920 of a more consumer based a more sort of personal account. 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.080 All right, So you were recruited to become the CFO 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.440 of byte Dance, right, and you have that job, You're 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.200 the CFO a Byte Dance, and after just like five 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.040 weeks they promoted you to be the CEO of TikTok 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.480 Is that right? It was after it was after a 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.600 couple of months. A couple of months, okay, So was 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.639 that a promotion? I think it's that the nature of 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:14.640 the job is very different. And what is the biggest 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.400 challenge that you have as a CEO? Is it to 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.639 keep the regulators away or to get more customers, more advertisers. 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.639 What is the biggest challenge? There are a couple of 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.320 things that you know keeps me awakend night, And I 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.480 think that's the question. Um. The opportunity that we have. 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.640 I believe that we have something that's very unique. We 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:39.280 pioneered this sort of short video format, and would we 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.520 have a very unique community today that has all these 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.320 kind of raw, authentic content that people love. And I 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.159 think the opportunity that we have to take this to 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.359 more people around the world to inspire them and for 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.040 them to bring more joy to more people. This is 0:19:56.080 --> 0:20:00.720 a great and unique opportunity. Excuse me, very very excited. 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:03.679 At the same time, there are challenges that we have 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.800 to work through, for example, making sure that we are 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.640 investing enough more and more into safety to stay ahead 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.920 of our growth, because it is something that's very important 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.359 to us. So challenges and opportunities they, you know, both 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.600 excite me equally. Since so you took the job of 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.360 CEO of TikTok, we've been living in COVID. How hard 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.000 has it been to manage a company during COVID? Are 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.920 you've mostly been isolated or how have you been operating 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.960 during COVID? It has been a challenging time. I think 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.520 for many businesses around the world, including ours. We are 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:42.640 a growing company, it is difficult for new employees who 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:46.399 are joining us do not have the opportunity to mingle 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:49.159 and interact with other people offline in the offices. So 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.879 it is something that you know, Uh, thankfully we are 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:56.080 at the stage of the pandemic where we can start 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:59.399 thinking about return to office. It is something that you know, 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.840 we want to vite, especially the newcomers in our company, 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:06.439 the right opportunities to to integrate and to blend in 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.119 and to make sure that they have, they have the 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:11.800 right opportunities to interact with with as many people as 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.280 they want. So if you look at TikTok, what is 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.600 your favorite single thing you've watched on TikTok? Is there 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.520 one thing you've watched and you said this is my favorite? Uh, 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.280 there are a number of them. I am an amateur golfer, 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:28.000 So hashtag golf has ten billion views more on TikTok. 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:31.720