1
00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,600
Speaker 1: More than one million people around the world visit TikTok

2
00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,680
Speaker 1: every month, but with immense growth comes scrutiny and competition.

3
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 1: In this episode of the David Rubinstein Show Peer to

4
00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,560
Speaker 1: Peer Conversations, I sit down with TikTok CEO shows E

5
00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 1: two to discuss TikTok's future and also find out if

6
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 1: I could become TikTok famous. Now. I am older than

7
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,479
Speaker 1: many of your TikTok followers. I believe I maybe you

8
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 1: have some people my age, but my impression is it's

9
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,960
Speaker 1: for younger people. Is that wrong? There is really something

10
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 1: for everyone on TikTok. I would I would have you

11
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,040
Speaker 1: installed TikTok yet do it? Well? I'm not an expert

12
00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,040
Speaker 1: on TikTok. I have looked at it, but I haven't

13
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: seen anything that you know looks like me. I think

14
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 1: you may be surprised, uh. For for example, for example,

15
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 1: there was something called book talk on on TikTok. It

16
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 1: is a hashtag and it really is a trend where

17
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 1: people share short videos on their favorite books. And you'd

18
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:01,600
Speaker 1: be probce how many views they have. We have forty

19
00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: billion views on book talk alone. There are many other categories.

20
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,919
Speaker 1: There is clean talk, which is about people cleaning thirty

21
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,280
Speaker 1: billion views. You know, I personally am a very amateur golfer.

22
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 1: Hashtag golf has more than ten billion views on TikTok

23
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,400
Speaker 1: as well, So I believe there is something for everyone.

24
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,240
Speaker 1: The way we want to present this is we have

25
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:28,360
Speaker 1: a machine learning recommendation engine which personalizes your experience when

26
00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,320
Speaker 1: you use TikTok, and we believe there's something for you

27
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,120
Speaker 1: as well. Okay, so can anybody put a video on TikTok, Yes,

28
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,399
Speaker 1: very easily. All right, How do you control of somebody

29
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,720
Speaker 1: puts something on that's dangerous or pornographic or or not appropriate.

30
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 1: This is a great question. One of the most important

31
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 1: things that I have been focusing on since I took

32
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 1: on the role nearly a year ago. It's on the

33
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 1: safety of our platform is something we take absolutely seriously,

34
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 1: and we have elevated this as a top priority for

35
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 1: myself and for the company. We put a significant amount

36
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 1: of investment into it h and we believe that we

37
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,400
Speaker 1: need to continue to invest in trust and safety to

38
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,400
Speaker 1: stay ahead of our growth because of the growth of

39
00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 1: the platform. So, for example, making sure that making sure

40
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,239
Speaker 1: that our community guidelines which are published transparently online, are

41
00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,440
Speaker 1: well understood by our users, making sure that we have

42
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,399
Speaker 1: the tools and the capabilities to ensure a safe environment,

43
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 1: a safe and inclusive environment on our platform, so that

44
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,640
Speaker 1: our users feelings I feel like feel that is a

45
00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,320
Speaker 1: trusted environment to to publish and to inspire the creativity

46
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 1: they want to. So let's suppose I want to be

47
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,920
Speaker 1: a TikTok person. I want to be on TikTok, but

48
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,919
Speaker 1: I have to make a living. Um can I make

49
00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 1: a living by just being on TikTok or the people

50
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: that make a living just by being on TikTok. Most

51
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 1: of our users come on TikTok to to share how

52
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 1: they feel into to inspire, you know, to inspire the world.

53
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: But there are people who come on TikTok, and this

54
00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,760
Speaker 1: is something we're extremely proud of. Um. We have an

55
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,440
Speaker 1: able them. We have given them the platform and the

56
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: tools to actually make a proper living. And most of

57
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,280
Speaker 1: these are small businesses or individuals. I can give you

58
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,359
Speaker 1: an example. I have been looking at my own TikTok

59
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:18,160
Speaker 1: recently and I saw this video on t case Surf

60
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,639
Speaker 1: and Turf. It is a restaurant in Denver. I think

61
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:26,800
Speaker 1: it's the first black owned, family operated seafood restaurant in Denver. Uh.

62
00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 1: What I've heard is during the pandemic, business was poor

63
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 1: for a lot of restaurants, including them. But what what

64
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: one creator did was to create videos on what, you know,

65
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,160
Speaker 1: how great the restaurant was. It became an overnight sensation.

66
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 1: It went viral, and our business is booming for for

67
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 1: that company. So and there are thousands upon thousands of

68
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 1: examples like that across the US and across the world.

69
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 1: And well, you know, this is something that we are

70
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,400
Speaker 1: immensely proud of that we have a platform the small

71
00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,640
Speaker 1: businesses can make use of to get to grow their business.

72
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,160
Speaker 1: Spose I want to be a TikTok performer and I

73
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 1: want to get paid for it. Do I do something

74
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 1: that says this restaurant is great and hopefully restaurant won't

75
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: pay me. Is that how people get paid by being

76
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 1: on TikTok. There are several mechanisms to do it. The

77
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,279
Speaker 1: first is if you become if you have enough followers,

78
00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,120
Speaker 1: certain brands will get in touch with you, either through

79
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 1: us or otherwise two for you to represent their brand,

80
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,360
Speaker 1: So you become the brand ambassador. So that's one way.

81
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,000
Speaker 1: Some of our creators get paid. Beyond that, we have

82
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,360
Speaker 1: provided them with tools to monetize, you know, to get

83
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,160
Speaker 1: in touch with the followers and the monetize that that

84
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,640
Speaker 1: that as well. For example, we have a live streaming service,

85
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,159
Speaker 1: so as a creator, you can you can launch, you

86
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,280
Speaker 1: can have a live streaming session and that is an exclusive,

87
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,120
Speaker 1: exclusive session where you can interact with the followers and

88
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: your followers can give you virtual gifts, and that's one

89
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 1: way you can monetize. The other example is e commerce.

90
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 1: We provide our creators with the tools to be able

91
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,240
Speaker 1: to sell merchandise on the atform as well. This is

92
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,360
Speaker 1: do a new part of our business, but it's something

93
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,719
Speaker 1: that people are very very excited about. How do you

94
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,560
Speaker 1: make money? Then other words, somebody goes on TikTok and

95
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,360
Speaker 1: they're making money for this restaurant in in Denver, How

96
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,760
Speaker 1: do you make any money? We make money primarily through

97
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,599
Speaker 1: advertising and also providing services like live streaming and decommon

98
00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 1: style uses. And we we do have a service fee

99
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,120
Speaker 1: that that we charge to provide those services. But if

100
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 1: somebody just uploads their video on TikTok, do they pay

101
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,360
Speaker 1: you a fee for that or not? No, it's absolutely free.

102
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,280
Speaker 1: Are there companies now that specialized in making people TikTok stars.

103
00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,200
Speaker 1: Somebody says, I want to be on TikTok. I want

104
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,680
Speaker 1: people to watch me. Maybe I can sell my my

105
00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,400
Speaker 1: services to an advertising company or some way. Um, there

106
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 1: are the people that polish up people's TikTok presentations the

107
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,920
Speaker 1: way our platform works, and my advice to anyone who

108
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,040
Speaker 1: wants to be famous on our platform is to just

109
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,560
Speaker 1: beat themselves. What we have found is that this community

110
00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,640
Speaker 1: is is This community wants real tent, They want the

111
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,839
Speaker 1: real roar content. They want to see people being themselves.

112
00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,200
Speaker 1: So um, the many people tell me it's a breath

113
00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,000
Speaker 1: of fresh air, is the sunny corner of the internet.

114
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,320
Speaker 1: So my advice to anyone who wants to be famous

115
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: is really to beat themselves. So recently, Mark Zuckerberg announced

116
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,280
Speaker 1: at his quarterly earnings after explaining why the stock went

117
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 1: down by as a result of the declining use of Facebook,

118
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,279
Speaker 1: he attributed to TikTok and TikTok was becoming a big rival.

119
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,800
Speaker 1: He said, how did it feel to be blamed by

120
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg for the decline and value of Facebook? We

121
00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,880
Speaker 1: are a very young company at this point, and they

122
00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,039
Speaker 1: are still very big competitors in the market. Some of

123
00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,479
Speaker 1: them have been around for a long time with a

124
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 1: lot of resources. So the way we look at it,

125
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,000
Speaker 1: there's still a long way for us to go in

126
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,640
Speaker 1: terms of achieving the mission that we want to achieve.

127
00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,440
Speaker 1: We think that there are a number of things that

128
00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,039
Speaker 1: makes us unique in the market. The first is that

129
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 1: we are pineers in what we do. We have innovated

130
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 1: this form of short video combined with a four you feed,

131
00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 1: and we are confident that in the coming years we

132
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 1: will continue to innovate on that front and bring the

133
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,120
Speaker 1: best and the most interesting value proposition to our use this.

134
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 1: So if Mark Zuckerberg we're here, would just say, don't

135
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 1: worry about us, We're not a big competition to you,

136
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,640
Speaker 1: or we'll just say we're coming after you. I think

137
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 1: for us, David, we are more focused on ourselves. I

138
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,520
Speaker 1: think over the long run, the biggest competitor that we

139
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 1: have as Cliche is going to sound is going to

140
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 1: be ourselves. We have a mission which is to inspire

141
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 1: creativity and to bring joy, and we believe that our

142
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,360
Speaker 1: most important focus is to focus on delivering that mission.

143
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 1: But let me ask you this, most of the large

144
00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,680
Speaker 1: Chinese technology companies. Let's say Ali Baba, Bai Do ten Cent.

145
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,560
Speaker 1: They have gigantic market values and they're very prominent in China.

146
00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,240
Speaker 1: Not as prominent outside of China as obviously in China,

147
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 1: and certainly not that prominent the United States. TikTok, by contrast,

148
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 1: is not in China, but it's gigantic outside of China,

149
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 1: the United States and everywhere. What did TikTok do that

150
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,080
Speaker 1: enabled a Chinese based company parent company at least to

151
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,600
Speaker 1: do so well outside of China. We think it's challenging

152
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 1: to build a global company in general, but the best

153
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 1: ones we have seen so far are ones that take

154
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 1: very consistent global learnings in adapt them to the local,

155
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 1: to the local, to the local countries that they are

156
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,000
Speaker 1: operating in. So you need to be global and local

157
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 1: at the same time. And it's something that we're investing in.

158
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,839
Speaker 1: For example, here in the US, we have a very

159
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 1: sizable team here in New York and Austin in l

160
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: A at this point in UH, becoming more local is

161
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 1: something we will continue to invest in. Okay, let's talk

162
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 1: about the beginning of of TikTok. So what is byte

163
00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 1: dance byke Dance was the parent company, When was byte

164
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,400
Speaker 1: Dance started and who was they founder a byte Dance.

165
00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:06,840
Speaker 1: I was very fortunate about ten years ago to have

166
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,320
Speaker 1: to have had the chance to participate in the company

167
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,320
Speaker 1: as an investor. Back Dance was founded in t Bye Eiming,

168
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,600
Speaker 1: and the original Like any good start up story, the

169
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,560
Speaker 1: original the original product has evolved over time and there

170
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 1: were many hits and mrs you know, as in the

171
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,040
Speaker 1: evolution of the company. One thing that has remained very

172
00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 1: consistent for Bye Dance is the mission. The mission for

173
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,760
Speaker 1: by Dance today is to inspire creativity and to enrich life.

174
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,959
Speaker 1: And what I've noticed over the course of the decade

175
00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,800
Speaker 1: that I've known the company is that they have been

176
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 1: very consistent in wanting to deliver this mission to as

177
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,839
Speaker 1: many people as possible and driven by this mission. What

178
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,560
Speaker 1: struck me in the early days of by Dance was

179
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:56,520
Speaker 1: the desire to be mobile, the focus on machine learning recommendation,

180
00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,839
Speaker 1: and this desire to be global, and it's been very

181
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,640
Speaker 1: system over the last ten years. I should disclose that

182
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 1: my own investment company is an investor in Bye Dance.

183
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: We took an investment a number of years ago and

184
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,040
Speaker 1: then I assume it will be a good investment. I

185
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,680
Speaker 1: don't know. But let's talk about how TikTok evolved out

186
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 1: of byte Dance. So when did TikTok come along. The

187
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,839
Speaker 1: original apps that were developed by byte Dance had a

188
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 1: very similar concept, which was to recommend content to use

189
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,800
Speaker 1: this based on machine learning. Machine learning algorithms that tries

190
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,280
Speaker 1: to understand the user's behavior. The first iteration of it

191
00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 1: that was successful was a news app, so it took

192
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,640
Speaker 1: news content and it recommended news to use this based

193
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: on their own behavior on the app. Now, sometime between

194
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,920
Speaker 1: sixteen that evolved into short video and that evolved into TikTok.

195
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 1: And did anybody think it would turn out to be

196
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,680
Speaker 1: as global phenomenon at the beginning? No? No, all right,

197
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,480
Speaker 1: So let me ask you about TikTok and regulation. Under

198
00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 1: President Trump, there was a concern that certain information that

199
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,240
Speaker 1: TikTok was getting from people using TikTok was somehow going

200
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 1: to be detrimental to the United States, and there was

201
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,679
Speaker 1: an effort to force TikTok to sell its US business.

202
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,000
Speaker 1: What happened to that effort. We believe that our approach

203
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 1: to all the governments that regulators around the world is

204
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,920
Speaker 1: to be collaborative and to be very transparent, to be

205
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 1: available to explain what we do and who we are,

206
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 1: and answer any questions that we have. That's the approach

207
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 1: we have taken in that approach has been an approach

208
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 1: that has been very beneficial for us over the course

209
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 1: of the last few years. But there was a proposal

210
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,800
Speaker 1: at one point that require you to sell the TikTok

211
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:43,719
Speaker 1: business in the US. I think it was going to

212
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,880
Speaker 1: be sold perhaps to Larry Elson's company Oracle. Is that

213
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,079
Speaker 1: off the table now and right now you're not being

214
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 1: forced to sell anything. Is that right? We have moved

215
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,360
Speaker 1: beyond that conversation. It is okay. And the current administration

216
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 1: and bid the administration have they picked up the cudgels

217
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 1: and said, well, we want to engage in the same fighter.

218
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 1: Right now, you don't have to worry about that again.

219
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,319
Speaker 1: We are taking the approach now to be very transparent,

220
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,280
Speaker 1: to be very engaged, very collaborative, and to answer any

221
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 1: questions that they may have. Okay, But the biggest concern

222
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,480
Speaker 1: that people had, at least some people in the Trump

223
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,440
Speaker 1: administration had it, maybe other people, is that the data

224
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,200
Speaker 1: that you have on your computers about who's watching what.

225
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,200
Speaker 1: I presume the data you have would somehow get fed

226
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,559
Speaker 1: back to China and China would have it for its

227
00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 1: use the Chinese government. Is that true that your data

228
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,079
Speaker 1: is subject of being given to or you're forced to

229
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,720
Speaker 1: give it the Chinese government. We disagree with that the

230
00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 1: ways TikTok is set up today. First of all, TikTok

231
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 1: is not available for download in China. It operates outside

232
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,880
Speaker 1: of China. The datas the data for TikTok uses is

233
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,080
Speaker 1: thought in Virginia and in Singapore, with the backup in Singapore,

234
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,760
Speaker 1: uh and we believe that we have a very rigorous

235
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,960
Speaker 1: and robust system to protect the data security of our uses.

236
00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 1: What do you do with the data? So let's suppose

237
00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 1: I on TikTok and I like certain kinds of things

238
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,199
Speaker 1: to watch. You presumably can in your algorithms know that

239
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 1: what do you do with that? That you sell it

240
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,040
Speaker 1: to another company or do you do nothing with it?

241
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 1: It is our recommendation engine. The best way to think

242
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:17,760
Speaker 1: about it is that it's just pure mathematics. It's it.

243
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,040
Speaker 1: It digests the behavior that ill uses have on our platform,

244
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 1: including likes. You know what videos do you like? The comments?

245
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,319
Speaker 1: How long you stay on the particular video, so on

246
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 1: and so forth. So signals like behavioral signals like that,

247
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 1: and it recommends him, It recommends the content that you

248
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 1: could potentially be most entertained by. So so that's really

249
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,280
Speaker 1: how the that's really how the data is being used

250
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,400
Speaker 1: on our platform. And how many countries are you in

251
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 1: now outside of China and India essentially all the other

252
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:52,359
Speaker 1: every country? Okay? And today you have something that's proprietary

253
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,640
Speaker 1: such that somebody couldn't come along and compete. In other words,

254
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,360
Speaker 1: there's always people coming along trying to disrupt companies, and

255
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,000
Speaker 1: that certainly happens a lot in the tech where all

256
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,240
Speaker 1: are you worried that somebody is going to come along

257
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,720
Speaker 1: with a new product that's slightly better than yours or

258
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 1: do you think it's unlikely given how dominant you are

259
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,640
Speaker 1: in the business now, David, This this is a very

260
00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,200
Speaker 1: competitive space and in our industry there are players with

261
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,800
Speaker 1: like but bigger muscles. They have more resources, they have

262
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 1: been around for a longer period of time, and I

263
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,720
Speaker 1: think it keeps us on our toes. No, we have

264
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, we have our strengths. We are pineers in this.

265
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,000
Speaker 1: You know, we believe that We are innovative and we

266
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 1: will continue to innovate. And we have a very unique

267
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 1: community that we talked about that that we believe is

268
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,680
Speaker 1: very special and not easily replicable. So we have our advantages.

269
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 1: We are confident, but at the same time, competition is

270
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,480
Speaker 1: very intense. Now China has been a little tougher, some

271
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 1: people would say, on Chinese tech companies than it was

272
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,320
Speaker 1: a year or two ago, and there's been what some

273
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,400
Speaker 1: people would say clamp down on Chinese tech companies. Has

274
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,160
Speaker 1: that affected you in any way? I think in in

275
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,840
Speaker 1: in this day and age, we have to be very

276
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,480
Speaker 1: collaborative and be very transparent and have an active dialogue

277
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 1: with regulators and governments around the world to help them

278
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,480
Speaker 1: understand our business and to answer any questions that you

279
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 1: may have. As I mentioned earlier, my my firm did

280
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,680
Speaker 1: invest in it, but I don't have any inside information,

281
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you're going to give me

282
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 1: the inside information. But is there any plan to take

283
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,640
Speaker 1: Bite Dance public at some point? Our current focus, given

284
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 1: the growth of our company, is to really focus on

285
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 1: the business. There's just so much we can do, especially

286
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 1: for TikTok that really our management focuses on growing the

287
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,440
Speaker 1: business at this point and making sure that we are

288
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 1: investing in the right things that we invest in. At

289
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,320
Speaker 1: some point we will access the capital markets. At some

290
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,240
Speaker 1: point we will, but that is really not the priority

291
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,120
Speaker 1: at this point. And when you go go into the

292
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 1: public markets, what do you think when your public documents

293
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 1: are revealed will be the biggest surprise. It's the size

294
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 1: of the platform or the profitability of it. What do

295
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,360
Speaker 1: you think is likely to be the biggest surprise. That's

296
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,040
Speaker 1: a very good question. I need to go back and

297
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 1: think about it. I think most of what we do

298
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 1: is is followed and many people sort of you know,

299
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 1: thankfully you have a lot of interest in in our

300
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 1: business today, so I'm not sure whether there will be

301
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,800
Speaker 1: any big surprises. Let's talk about your own background. So

302
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 1: you mentioned your Singapore and were you born in Singapore.

303
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 1: I am born in Singapore, okay, And did you go

304
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 1: to college and high school in Singapore. The thing about

305
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,840
Speaker 1: growing up in a small island like Singapore, David, is

306
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 1: you get won the lust at a very young age.

307
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 1: It's a tropical paradise. It's a tiny island. I love it,

308
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 1: but it's very small. So after high school and after

309
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 1: the National Service. We have National service there. I, you know,

310
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 1: went to the UK for college and then subsequently to

311
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 1: hear in the US V Business School where I and

312
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 1: my wife. All right, you went to Harvard Business School?

313
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 1: I did? And so how do you think Harvard Business

314
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,120
Speaker 1: School was? Was it smarter? The people they're smarter than

315
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 1: your thought or not as smart as you thought they'd

316
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 1: It was a great I had a great time there.

317
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,080
Speaker 1: The most important moment was I met my wife in

318
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,560
Speaker 1: business school, So to me, this is a you know,

319
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,840
Speaker 1: it was a great two years. Okay. So you graduate

320
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 1: from Harvard Business School in what year? All right? So

321
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,959
Speaker 1: what did you do then? After business school? I joined

322
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 1: an investment company called DST which invests in internet companies.

323
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: Is this your A Milners company? Yes? And so what

324
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 1: did you do for him? You look for Internet related investments.

325
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,159
Speaker 1: That's what I did, okay? And how many years were

326
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 1: you there? I was there for about five years, and

327
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,920
Speaker 1: it was doing this time that I got to meet

328
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,680
Speaker 1: and meet and invest in Byte Dance. Okay, So after

329
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,960
Speaker 1: you left your A Milners operation, what did you do?

330
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 1: I joined a company called shell Me, where I initially

331
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,080
Speaker 1: was the CFO and then ran the global operations for

332
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,040
Speaker 1: the company. Okay, so you did that for a while

333
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 1: and then a head hunter called you up and said,

334
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 1: guess what we want you to come to Bite Dance

335
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 1: or how did that happen? It wasn't a head hunter.

336
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,120
Speaker 1: The I've stayed very close to the folks and Bitte

337
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,360
Speaker 1: Dance because of my early relationship with them, so they

338
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,960
Speaker 1: reached out. There's a little known fact about me, which

339
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,160
Speaker 1: is I used to be a creator. I actually had

340
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,240
Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty five thousand follow us on that account,

341
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 1: and so I've had to go through that process of

342
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 1: learning how to connect with my followers and using the product,

343
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 1: and it was an amazing way. I found the product

344
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,959
Speaker 1: so amazing in terms of being being able to communicate

345
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 1: the messages I wanted to my followers. So I love

346
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: the product. I've known the team for a long time.

347
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,440
Speaker 1: I think that the mission is something that I really

348
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,080
Speaker 1: truly believe in. So when the opportunity opened up, it

349
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,640
Speaker 1: was very organic for me to trave ad followers. Now

350
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,399
Speaker 1: I did you did? Now you've given them up? Or

351
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 1: what do you have now? That account was used to

352
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 1: sell products. So I have since transitioned into a sort

353
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 1: of a more consumer based a more sort of personal account.

354
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 1: All right, So you were recruited to become the CFO

355
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 1: of byte Dance, right, and you have that job, You're

356
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 1: the CFO a Byte Dance, and after just like five

357
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 1: weeks they promoted you to be the CEO of TikTok

358
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 1: Is that right? It was after it was after a

359
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: couple of months. A couple of months, okay, So was

360
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 1: that a promotion? I think it's that the nature of

361
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 1: the job is very different. And what is the biggest

362
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 1: challenge that you have as a CEO? Is it to

363
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 1: keep the regulators away or to get more customers, more advertisers.

364
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 1: What is the biggest challenge? There are a couple of

365
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 1: things that you know keeps me awakend night, And I

366
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,480
Speaker 1: think that's the question. Um. The opportunity that we have.

367
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,640
Speaker 1: I believe that we have something that's very unique. We

368
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: pioneered this sort of short video format, and would we

369
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 1: have a very unique community today that has all these

370
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 1: kind of raw, authentic content that people love. And I

371
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,159
Speaker 1: think the opportunity that we have to take this to

372
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,359
Speaker 1: more people around the world to inspire them and for

373
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: them to bring more joy to more people. This is

374
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 1: a great and unique opportunity. Excuse me, very very excited.

375
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,679
Speaker 1: At the same time, there are challenges that we have

376
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: to work through, for example, making sure that we are

377
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 1: investing enough more and more into safety to stay ahead

378
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 1: of our growth, because it is something that's very important

379
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,359
Speaker 1: to us. So challenges and opportunities they, you know, both

380
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: excite me equally. Since so you took the job of

381
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 1: CEO of TikTok, we've been living in COVID. How hard

382
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 1: has it been to manage a company during COVID? Are

383
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,920
Speaker 1: you've mostly been isolated or how have you been operating

384
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 1: during COVID? It has been a challenging time. I think

385
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: for many businesses around the world, including ours. We are

386
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,640
Speaker 1: a growing company, it is difficult for new employees who

387
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: are joining us do not have the opportunity to mingle

388
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,159
Speaker 1: and interact with other people offline in the offices. So

389
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 1: it is something that you know, Uh, thankfully we are

390
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: at the stage of the pandemic where we can start

391
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: thinking about return to office. It is something that you know,

392
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: we want to vite, especially the newcomers in our company,

393
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 1: the right opportunities to to integrate and to blend in

394
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 1: and to make sure that they have, they have the

395
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: right opportunities to interact with with as many people as

396
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 1: they want. So if you look at TikTok, what is

397
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: your favorite single thing you've watched on TikTok? Is there

398
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: one thing you've watched and you said this is my favorite? Uh,

399
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: there are a number of them. I am an amateur golfer,

400
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: So hashtag golf has ten billion views more on TikTok.

401
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 1: It's it's very, very entertaining. So if you watch golf

402
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 1: on TikTok, do you get to be a better golfer

403
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,959
Speaker 1: or not necessarily unfortunately, not necessarily help. Okay, when you

404
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 1: are not working at TikTok and you're not golfing, there's

405
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: there any outside interest you have or you don't have

406
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: any outside time? I do, I do. I'm a very

407
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: I'm I'm an amateur theoretical physicist, as in I'm reading

408
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 1: books on theoretical physics and and trying to understand it.

409
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 1: So that's something that I love. I've interviewed many people

410
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: over the years. I've never interviewed anybody who said that

411
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: they're hobby was amateur theoretical physics, so that must be unusual.

412
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 1: Um So do you regret not becoming the next Albert

413
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 1: Einstein or something like that. I don't think I have

414
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: the ability to be that. I hardly understand the mathematics

415
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,520
Speaker 1: behind some of the more complex theories, but I find

416
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 1: it very interesting. So today, as you look forward to

417
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 1: what you're going to be doing over the next year

418
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 1: or so, what are you most focused on. I'm most

419
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,199
Speaker 1: focused on trust building. We are a young company, and

420
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 1: I think trust is something that we have to earn

421
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: through actions, for example, through our continued investment in safety.

422
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: So that is a big focus for me that we

423
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,479
Speaker 1: are focused on not only growing out business, but earning

424
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: trust with the right stickholders around the world along the way.

425
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You

426
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or

427
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: wherever you listen.