WEBVTT - Ephemera and Eternity 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.240 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:15.120 Forward Thinking High There and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:17.400 show that looks at the future and says forget you 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.400 and forget her too. I'm Lauren bog Obama, and I'm 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 Joe McCormick, and our host Jonathan Strickland is not with 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.800 us today this week that we're recording. He is out 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.600 at CES, Yes, finding lots of exciting things to come 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:32.480 back and report on to you guys. So in the meanwhile, 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.000 we thought that we would do an episode about about 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.120 the permanence of the Internet, or the permanence of all things, 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.640 but specifically in these are modern times, the stuff that 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.120 we put out there digitally, I mean basically the Internet 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.400 is forever. Yeah, not so great if they're embarrassing pictures 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:51.879 of you out there, as probably all of us have 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.560 experienced at one point or another. YEA something that you 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:59.040 said offhand or maybe posted or sent to somebody came 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.640 back to haunt you and probably a small way. Hopefully 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.280 a small way, because it's not been a small way 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.080 for everyone all the time. Well, I mean, so when 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.240 that relative of yours finds the picture of the school 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.720 play you were in when you were in second grade 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.000 and you were dressed up in a cow costume and 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.640 singing at the top of your lungs and doing the 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:24.320 splits for some reason. Uh, that's kind of weird. You know. 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.000 Everybody sees that and now they're like, oh, this adult 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.200 person that I thought I knew as an adult person 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.520 is actually a tiny child in a cow. Is this 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.840 something that personally happened to you or is this an 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:36.360 example that you just made up off the top of 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.960 your head. It's not this specifically, but this kind of thing, sure, 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.160 you know, it sort of forces the past to be 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.840 with us constantly. Things that we would acknowledge happened certainly 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.920 suddenly become things that are still presently going on when 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.480 you're constantly seeing the pictures of them over and over again. 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.360 And sure, yeah, it wakes me out sometimes. Like if 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.240 I if I google my own name and and everybody 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.920 googles themselves, it's okay, we're we're all aware of it. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:12.080 It's myself, oh my um, but no, no, if if 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.399 you google Lauren Folk, obam one of the like, like, 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.840 you know, seven pages back, there's some forum comments that 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.480 I made on like an X files fan forum in 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:26.200 like and it's pretty I mean, I'm just like, oh 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:28.640 that really, my dad was right when he told me 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.799 that I shouldn't attach my real name to things. You know. Yeah, 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.560 I'd say your dad's advice was pretty sound, and it's 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:40.880 probably still pretty sound today. The things we do have consequences. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.160 That goes without saying. Everybody understands that, but not everyone 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.920 seems to understand that. Actually, well everybody understands that in 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.400 the abstract, but you can kind of forget about it 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.440 when you're in the middle of an activity. Um, so 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.880 everybody understands that they are going to be social, economic, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.480 legal consequences for the things they do and say when 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.560 people are watching. So, you know, if you were to 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.360 go stand down on a busy street corner and start 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.920 screaming about, you know how you're going to blow up 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.680 a building or something, and then people come and try 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.799 to grab you, I was just kidding. I didn't I'm 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.120 not I would never do anything like. I mean, you'd 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.079 have to understand that, like, people would still be concerned 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:24.760 even if you actually were hidding. Yeah, yeah, that's that's 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.360 that's the kind of thing that right most people get 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.480 that they shouldn't do because of those consequences. Yeah, now 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.320 you might make that same kind of comment to your friends. 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.200 I probably wouldn't. Somebody might, and and your friends might understand, Okay, 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.600 that's just your sort of six sense of humor. You'd 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.520 never actually do that because your friends know you or well, 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.280 for example, if if you play first person shooters and 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.760 you discuss them in an off hand manner in a bar, 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:49.920 for example, like I, I cannot kill you. So hard 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:51.560 to tell you the number of times that I've said 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.040 something like that out loud in a public space and 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.920 realized immediately after I said it that I sound like 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:01.280 a complete psychotic killer. Right. But so with the age 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.560 of the Internet and social media, there's a way in 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.600 which these two scenarios have kind of blurred together in 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:10.760 an unfortunate way. So let's say you're on Twitter or 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.520 you're on Facebook, and you're having a conversation that you've 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:16.280 come to view as a conversation among friends. You know, 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.599 I just interact with my buddies on here. You don't 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.400 really have the the awareness most of the time that 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.080 what you're doing is public and other people have access 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.280 to it. You feel like you're in a private conversation. 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.840 But then you say I'm gonna kill you so hard 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:34.280 or something like that, and then suddenly everybody's listening and 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.040 you really regret saying that, and you can't take it 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.800 back because people don't understand, all right, even if you 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.760 delete that tweet, there's a decent chance that it's been 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.920 cashed somewhere, or that another service has picked it up, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.080 or you know, it's just because you delete something doesn't 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.920 mean it's gone digitally speaking, right. Uh. And we'll definitely 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.719 talk about the extent to which that sad fact is 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:59.039 true in a few minutes here. But so we should 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.560 start off talking about the the difference between public and 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.880 private and and what these different concepts mean to people, 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.520 especially in terms of the consequences they experienced, like physical, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.440 real consequences in their lives, whether you're you know, it's 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.720 in an interview chair or on a witness stand. I mean, 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:22.480 there are cases in which the things you've said online, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.560 which might have otherwise been just sort of dumb, off 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.960 hand comments or ephemera that you might have spoken between 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.080 your friends out you know, hanging out somewhere and would 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:36.840 have disappeared forever. Now those comments are recorded and accessible 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.360 to the public, and we'll come back to haunt you 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:43.960 can certainly right, you know can, and you know, if 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.960 they can, they probably probably will. So we want to 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.440 talk about some examples of people who have faced public 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.880 repercussions for things they did online. Um. Yeah, some of these. 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:57.880 Some of these made me feel really badly for the 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.800 people involved, and some of them gave me that's to 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.839 fixed sense of schadenfreud, depending on depending on the the 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:07.080 offense given. But uh so, so your your first one 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.640 was a schadenfreud moment for me. Yeah, this is one 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.320 of the craziest I found. Apparently, in two thousand and eight, 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.160 a juror was dismissed from a UK court case after 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.840 posting details about the case on Facebook and asking her 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:24.120 friends how she should vote like in the deliberation. The quote, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.640 the quote from the Telegraph report on this was I 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.200 don't know which way to go, so I'm holding a pole. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.200 And this was like a child sexual assault case. I mean, 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.120 this was not the kind of thing that it is 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.760 okay in in any way to have been posting details 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.960 about Yeah, um, I mean, I mean, aside from the 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:45.039 legal ramifications, that's just yeeky. I mean, you just don't 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.760 do that. Right, Yeah, of course. And so this juror 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:52.560 was found out and was sent home, and then I 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.640 guess the case was resolved with an eleven person jury. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:07:00.760 But this juror, the report concluded, in seems like the 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.520 case that was very lucky not to have been held 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.520 in contempt of court. Yeah, I'm shocked that she didn't 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:11.800 face legal repercussions from that. Yeah. People get fired from 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.080 their jobs all the time for stuff they do online. 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.520 Oh certainly. Um, there was there was one case of 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.880 a teacher here in Georgia who was asked to resign 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.040 after she posted um private Facebook photos of herself with 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.200 alcoholic beverages in her hands while she was on vacation. Um. 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.280 Some of her co workers at the school that she 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.960 worked for apparently alerted the principle, and the principle basically 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.000 asked her for her resignation. So, I mean, it's not 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:36.800 quite like being fired, And I think that in a 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.400 lot of these cases, it's more we'd really like you 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.280 to resign than a direct firing. But there was a 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.760 story from two thousand nine about a girl who lost 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.160 a job offer from Cisco after she tweeted about being 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.920 excited about the paycheck. But not about the job itself. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:56.160 Apparently the uh someone from the company's Twitter feed contacted 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.960 her and was like, we'll let we'll let HR know 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.640 how you feel about that. Thanks, and and then she 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:07.160 lost the job offer. So's we demand that you enjoy 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:12.000 your work. Well, okay, that's that's fair. But but I 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:13.640 but I see it from their point of view. I mean, 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.000 it's it's just in terms of of a way that 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.880 you behave online is part of what they're hiring and 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.320 so therefore, yeah, and it probably just hurts the company's 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.640 reputation in their mind to have stuff like that out there. Yeah. Yeah. 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.640 Speaking of reputations, there was a football player who was 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.040 released from his contract with the Kansas City Chiefs after 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:34.760 he sent out some inflammatory tweets UM, including and this 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:36.600 is one of those shot and freud things. In response 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.240 to another Twitter user saying that he would regret what 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.040 he was tweeting, he said, and I quote make me 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:47.000 regret it. L m a O. You don't stop my checks, does, 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.920 but somebody reading this might m and then you know, 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:52.839 there have been tons of cases. This one hits pretty 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.640 close to home to me of of social media managers 0:08:56.000 --> 0:09:00.480 UM accidentally posting from the incorrect account, So like you 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.960 thought you were posting from your personal account, but instead 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:06.960 you were posting on the company account, right right. And 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.160 that's the thing that I literally have done. I have 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.880 accidentally posted a tweet that I meant to send for 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.840 my own account as the when I was accidentally signed 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.000 in as as how stuff works on on Twitter, and 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.319 I'm playing all you tweet is adorable cats. Yeah, basically, 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.720 I mean it was it was nothing. It was nothing bad. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.840 It was something about like a fire drill and myself 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.160 being really out of shape, so I I mean it 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.360 didn't and like there was no cursing involved, so it 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:33.920 was okay. But yes, people have been fired for that. 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.479 There was an employee Chrysler, I believe, who was complaining 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:40.600 about Detroit drivers and that didn't go over too well. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:45.800 Um yeah, but uh, apparently after the tsunami in Japan, 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.480 Gilbert Gottfried made a really tasteless joke on Twitter and 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:52.760 Affleck decided to find another um spoke stuck. Yeah. I 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.360 feel like there's sort of different kind of categories for 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.320 these people who are already famous and have a lot 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.120 of people following them versus people who just you know, 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.240 we're tweeting to their friends. Now, in fact, it's probably 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.480 not all that different. I mean, in both cases it's 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:12.520 public um, but one is at least somebody who should 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.400 know that people are going to be reading this all right, 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.120 and should have some kind of well, you know, in 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.000 the Gilbert Godfried case, I think it's strange because you know, 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.480 you've you've hired an offensive comedian to be your spokesperson, 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.320 and then you're surprised when he says something offensive. It 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.080 doesn't it doesn't quite mash for me personally, although you 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.319 know it's it's certainly within their right to say, we 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:34.920 don't want you representing us anymore. It's like they fired 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.480 the company spokes bear for getting into the garbage. I know, right, 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:43.439 that's completely unfair. That's the ceel you forbears would totally 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.120 have something to say about that. Yeah, but wait a second, Lauren, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.080 if you are a citizen of a country that supposedly 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:55.120 protects free speech, how come you can't say anything you 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.800 want online and not be punished for it. I mean, 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.160 I believe in free speech. You believe in free speech, 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.720 don't you? Yes, I'm I am a good American? Okay, 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.120 So how come people can't get away with saying stuff 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:12.560 like this. Why are they being punished for just exercising 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.240 their right to free speech? Well, okay, the the whole 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.960 Amendment about free speech is really more about the government 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:20.679 not being able to tell you what you can and 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.800 can't say. It has nothing to do with it. It's 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:28.200 the first Amendment. Doesn't protect you from your own stupidity. Right. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.160 This is ah not to get too political on a 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:35.000 podcast about technology science in the future, but it's relevant 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:37.679 to what we're talking about today. The whole concept of 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:41.000 the legal idea of free speech protects you from being 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.840 prosecuted or from being legally prevented from giving speech, but 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.200 it doesn't protect you from, say, like the social consequences, 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:54.079 your employment being one of those consequences. Right, uh so. 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:58.240 But but there are some legal protections, not necessarily so 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.679 much under free speech, but actually under some labor laws. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.680 So I wanted to talk about what protection does exist. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:10.600 So here are some facts. Um. In two thousand nine, 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.760 a paramedic working for a company called American Medical Response 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.760 based in Connecticut lost her job after she went on 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.040 Facebook and she called her boss some names, including scumbag 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.640 and some other words. We're not going to say here. Uh. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.640 And this was in response to a dispute that she 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.880 had had at work, which involved I don't know if 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.800 it was entirely about but at least involved a dispute 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.960 over union representation. Okay, So so she was so she 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.720 was discussing some some serious points about her job, but 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.000 in the course of it used language that was perhaps 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:55.040 um inadvisable to public public consumption. Sure, yeah, um not 0:12:55.160 --> 0:13:00.079 super friendly words. Okay, fighting words maybe, but not in 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.160 where it's in the legal sense though that's a different story. Um. Well, 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:09.880 A an organization actually exists called the National Labor Relations Board, 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.679 and the National Labor Relations Board of the n l 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.080 RB took up this employee's case in two thousand ten, 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.959 and in January two thousand eleven, the ambulance company, the 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.480 American Medical Response, agreed to settle. Now, this was the 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.360 first case in which the nl r B had ever 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.200 defended the rights of an employee to speak on social 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.719 media specifically. Um, it wasn't the first time they've ever 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.760 dealt with social media, but before they've tended to decide 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:40.720 with with an employer. Yeah, with an employer's discretion, um 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:44.080 to to terminate based on whatever their employee policy is. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.160 This case was n l r B versus American Medical 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:52.560 Response UM, and the NLRB argued that the speech was 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.560 protected because employees were discussing the supervisor action, which was 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.600 protected under the National Labor Relations Act UH, and that 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.600 was designed to give workers safety to quote engage in 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.840 concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.240 mutual aid or protection. And essentially what this spoils down 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.200 to is that employees can talk about the conditions of 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.240 their employment. They can talk about the terms of their 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:24.720 employment and company policies with co workers and UH, they 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.320 can talk about unionization strategies, and they can't be punished 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:32.480 for this conversation. Well that's that's that's sensical and also 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.280 kind of awesome. UM. I have heard that they have 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.320 that there's other cases that they have declined to to 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.720 file complaints for. Oh yeah, UM and and and like 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.760 you said, there's there's plenty wherein they have sided with 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.640 the company. But like there was one that I read 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.320 about where a bartender was fired for saying on Facebook 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.280 that his customers were and I quote rednecks and that 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:56.120 he hoped that they choked on glass. Yeah, that's Okay, well, 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.160 that would not be protected under the National Labor Relations 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.400 Act because that doesn't really have to do with any 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:06.320 pertinent conversation about the conditions of employment unionization. That's just 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.560 sort of a nasty thing. Right. Also, you're you're technically 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.280 threatening people at that point, which is generally not protected speech, 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.040 even under something like the First Amendment. Right. So, the 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:18.840 bottom line is you might have some degree of legal 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.600 protection for what you say on social media under certain conditions, 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:27.520 especially pertaining the unionization and workplace policies and conditions, but 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.640 the general idea of free speech does not protect you. 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.080 Um So, if you get on Twitter and just go 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.880 on a rant about how you know your boss looks 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:40.320 like a donkey headed cactus, I don't know. That is 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.440 exactly what I say when I'm angry at my boss. Sorry, Tracy, Uh, 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.800 then you can be fired and you probably won't have 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.600 any legal recourse. Okay, But but jobs aren't the only 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.280 sphere in which you can get in trouble for things 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.760 that you say online. Yeah, I mean, there's there's certainly 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.680 not pretty deep social repercussions that can that can happen 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.600 in your in your circle of friends. Right, So, like 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.440 especially if you're a young person, but I guess anybody, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.880 but as young people are especially vulnerable. Something embarrassing or 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.120 private gets out and you can feel like this is 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.840 the end of the world, and you can be really 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:18.840 harshly bullied about it, of course, but yeah, I mean 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.080 if if you've got people who are not looking out 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.680 for your best interests, then that kind of commentary about 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.840 what is posted about you can be very harsh. Yeah. Uh, okay. 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.520 So let's say I've had social media accounts of very 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.600 various kinds for like five years, and I suddenly get 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.760 real anxious about this. I'm like, oh, oh no, all 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.280 these things out there, I've got to go delete it 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.760 all right now. And you go back, you delete your 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.080 Facebook account, you delete Twitter, you delete everything everything you've 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.000 ever put online, and you you go into lockdown mode. 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.720 You're like, Okay, my identities, my own I control people. See, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.960 none of that stuff is gonna haunt me. Am I safe? Uh? 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:05.000 Basically no, Basically, the Internet is forever um and and 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.080 that is partially because of Uh. There are lots of 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.879 organizations that are out there that are that are purposefully 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.720 saving the things that we post online. And that's not 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:17.680 generally going to be Um, you know, stuff that you've 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.560 posted in private on Facebook, but certainly a public forum 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.160 like Twitter. You're dealing with things like like the way 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.200 Back Machine, that nonprofit that's working actively to create an 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:34.240 Internet library for posterity. Um, Google, Google's cash. Every time 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.600 Google looks at a website and tries to figure out, um, 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.240 where to put it in search ranks or or where 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.600 to serve it within searches, it's it's cashing that page. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.840 It's creating a record of it that can stay there 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.840 after you've taken the page down. Um. There are tons 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.000 of other services that do stuff like this. Even the 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:56.840 Library of Congress is collecting tweets. Okay, so anything that's 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.760 been created after the widespread use of the Internet, that 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.679 that's probably not going away. You should just count on 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.400 that being there. But I want to introduce an even 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:11.840 scarier idea. And this has to do with digitization, which, 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:16.399 on one hand, is a wonderful thing like digitization of 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.080 old print sources and books and stuff like that. This 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.879 this is awesome for research. So you want to do 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.440 research on something that happened in nineteen ten. And I've 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.000 actually been in this position before, doing research on stuff 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.760 that happened a long time ago, where you just can't 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.760 find this information that was sort of a femarole back then. 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.399 Maybe these weird little newspaper articles that stuff is getting 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.160 scanned into Google. Oh yeah, and and I mean it's 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.200 like you just said, it's terrific for for us as researchers. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.680 If you know, you suddenly find yourself in the position 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.439 of wondering what was going on in popular mechanics in 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.480 UM and it's there. That's awesome. So stuff that they 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.640 thought was a phemera not anymore. It helps us revisit 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.520 the past and learn more. Right, but not so great 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:07.240 if you say, published a collection of erotic science fiction 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:11.880 in four and you're just every day you're thankful that 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.240 nobody remembers that, and nobody will ever find a copy 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:20.080 until somebody scans that in and it gets on Google Books, 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.280 and then your name is touched to the sci fi 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:25.800 erotica thing forever and ever um, at which point your 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.479 options are like change your name or yeah, or or 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.400 have used a pen name in the first place, which 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.520 I think is really under those kinds of cases. Really 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.480 should have thought of the Internet. You should have You 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.200 should have I mean, if you're a sci fi writer. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:44.520 Come on, um, but should have been more prescient. Uh, 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.040 but no, and and it is. It is a great 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.480 thing that that stuff like like Google or way Back 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.800 Machine are creating these records. I think that um, I 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.560 mean the same way that there are society is dedicated 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.399 to collecting ephemera um in in ads or in the 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.400 form of letters, lots of stuff that people never expected 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.120 to last, but they give. They give our society that's 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:08.960 really terrific peek back into what was going on in 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:15.560 prior times. And so that's beautiful but also completely terrifying. Yeah, Okay, 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.560 it's time to talk about blowback, because all this stuff 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:22.520 is scary people. I think people are probably wanting if 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.199 Femora back. They want to reclaim the idea that you 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:30.840 can have interactions with your friends and with various interlocutors 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:34.440 over over the media that you use without it being 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:39.040 stuck somewhere in an archive for forever haunting you. How 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.240 do we get a Femora back. A Fema, of course, 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.280 you know, being something that that's fleeting, that fades away. 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.840 This an interaction that's just for now. Well, as it 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.840 turns out, there's an app for that, an app for that. 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:52.639 I think there are several apps for that, but we 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:55.240 know there's a big app for that. Yeah that. The 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.320 one that's been getting the most press lately has been Snapchat. 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:01.600 It's it's been getting most bad press lately, but but 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.520 it's but it's maybe the biggest generator of the ephemera 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.640 app buzz kind of stuff. Um. Forbes estimated that as 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:12.640 of January, some fifty million people were using this app. 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:14.359 It's an app, by the way, if you haven't heard 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.919 of Snapchat that UM that allows you to um send 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.159 a picture or a text or a video to to 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.439 a friend directly to a friend for and the message 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:26.760 will self destruct within a certain period of time, within 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:31.000 whatever period of time you specify. The example I heard 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.639 was like ten seconds. Sure, yeah, and so it's just 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.200 a really quick thing and UM, you know, so far, 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.280 I think has been used by a lot of The 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.080 median age of their users is like eighteen, um, and 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:46.400 so I think it might be sexy sexy times. Yeah, 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:49.280 there's been a lot of concern about this from like 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:53.200 parents and especially like older people in the media, like 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.200 what is this? It's kind of scary. I can see 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.960 why they'd be concerned. I guess, well, sure, I would 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.200 also devil's advocate that and I'm not sure if you 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.360 can use that as a verb, but I just did suckers, 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.760 So there, um that, Uh, you know, if kids are 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:08.560 going to do this kind of thing anyway, at least 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:11.760 not having permanent records of it is a is a 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:17.080 good thing, is kindest assuming there aren't actually permanent records 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:21.080 of it, right, which is kind of the problem. Um. Okay, So, 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.720 so they've got about fifty million people using it, and 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:28.359 it's users as of September, we're sending some three fifty 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:33.200