WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Bernard Purdie & Chuck Rainey 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.240 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:09.360 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.040 Hey, this is Sugar, Steve and In this week's QLs 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.840 classic episode, Quest Love and I sit down with legendary 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.200 musicians Chuck Rainey and Bernard Perty to talk through how 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.040 they influenced and in some cases invented, the ubiquitous. 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.720 Groove that became the music of our Lives. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.400 Originally released April seventeenth, twenty nineteen. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.440 Ladies and gentlemen, do not attempt to adjust your dial. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.040 This is a special special edition of Quest Love Supreme 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:50.320 only on Pandora. If you remember previously when Sugar to 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:50.839 Steve and. 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:52.919 I had a chance to chat it. 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.160 Up with brother Herb Albert, we just did a rogue 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.760 episode without the family, so we are still family. But 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:02.000 right now this is ague episode of Quest Left Supreme. 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.520 I would say, right now we are having a summit 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:09.120 meeting of the gods. We have two gentlemen who have 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:14.800 shaped some of the most daring art, funk, pop, rock, 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.760 soul music of our lives. Not of music, but just 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:23.080 of our lives. Our first guest brother Chuck Rainey, his 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:28.760 session resume is life Goals, having played on classic album 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.600 after classic album after classic album, projects and musicians such 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:38.360 as Brother Cal Jada, Eddie Harris, Laura Niro, George Benson, 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.959 Quincy Jones, ROBERTA. Flecton, Hathaway Crusaders, Don a Berg, Bobby Humphrey, 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.600 Marlina Shawl, Sergio Mendez, Marvin Gay, Minnie Ripertons, Steale Dan. 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.120 It just goes on forever and not to be outdone. 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:54.240 As a drummer, Brother Bernard Purdy inspired the drummer, who 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:58.240 inspired the drummers, who inspires drummers and continues on. This 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:01.640 man is quite literally unavoid and his influence both men 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.800 are his resume. Also to reads like life Goals, name 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:10.040 It Herbie Man, Jack McDuff, James Brown, Nina Simone, Shirley Scott, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.600 Hank Crawford, Gene mm Is, Dizzy Gillespie, B B. King, 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.880 Five Stair Steps, David Fat, Anne Newman, Sister Retha, Franklin, King, 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:22.080 Curtis Gil Scott, Heron, Les McCann, Esther Phillips, Kat Stevens, 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:28.839 Hall of Notes, Joe Cockerham, The Beatles, and Yes, Yeah, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.800 I said it, Steely Dan. Please give it up, y'all 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.919 for the one and only Chuck Rainey and Bernard Purney. 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:37.679 It's a QLs. 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:39.679 Man. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.720 I really appreciate you guys making it happen. It should 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:49.120 be noted that both of you are kind of doing 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:53.480 the rounds in celebration of a film that we never 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.200 thought would see the light of day, which is Uhretha 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.919 Franklin's documentary Amazing Grace. 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.000 Many people know that. 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.200 The classical live album that came from those sessions and 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.080 in the in nineteen seventy two, but many people don't 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.560 know that there was an accompanying film that went along 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:19.880 with it, and it's been a miracle to finally get 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:24.359 it out to the people, and I highly recommend it. 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:27.040 It's a masterclass and a miracle. So we thank you 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:32.480 for coming. So how weird is it to I mean, 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:38.200 you guys are have written history and we just take 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.520 for musicians like myself and all my peers take from it. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.600 But for you is it just like breathing like, oh, 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.200 it's nothing, like it's just a Thursday. I'm gonna make 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:48.240 history today. 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:49.840 Like oh, never like that. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.320 So you're appreciative of where we are now? 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.600 Well, number one, working is important, you know, having a gig, 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:58.720 and of course what makes it better is when you 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.080 get paired up with the same person a whole lot. Okay, 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:03.880 and so Bernard and I have been paired up a 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.240 whole lot. He's so he's as much a part of 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.320 my career as I am. And if I were a drummer, 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:10.880 my man, I would play just like him. 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:16.240 Well, explain this to me as as a musician asking UH, 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:21.040 in the sixties and seventies, what were the most important 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:27.479 UH traits or what are the most important characteristics to 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.320 have to make sure that you are always constantly being 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:35.840 the call guy, being the go to person for session gigs. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.520 Well, for me, it was always the easiest part. 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:42.920 Getting the gig was the easiest part. 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:47.480 Oh yeah, I'd beg What's I knew? I knew how to. 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:49.320 Beg you you begged for gigs? 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:54.400 No shame whatsoever, really, And the beauty of it was 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.880 I wasn't begging just for myself. I was taking the 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:04.120 credit of Rainy and everybody else that wanted to do 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:09.400 it with us, but Chuck, and I was actually fifty 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.720 percent of all the records that I made with Chuck. 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:17.040 So how in a time in which okay, let's take 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.839 the late sixties and a time in which a crew 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.960 like the Wrecking Crew were the default go to people 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.840 for a lot of West Coast musicians, Like, how are 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:34.080 you able to even ease your way into a system 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.159 in which you know, most people just want half the time, 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.000 I just hear like, hey, half the people just show 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:40.800 up on time. The other half just shuts up and 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.720 do what they're told. They're not high maintenance. Like how 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:50.440 do you infiltrate your way into a system that otherwise 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.640 normally would be occupied by someone who's been grandfathered in 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:55.960 and locked into a gig? 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:01.200 You know, actually that's a great question for me. I'm 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.359 a bass player. I've always wanted to just play the bass. 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.440 So whenever I get a call coming out of King 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.880 Curtis's band, just but everybody came through his band and 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.760 King Curtis All Stars in the sixties sixties ended up 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.720 in the studio, and I just wanted to play, so like, 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.960 I did not maneuver my way into anything other than 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.560 just be the best player that I could. And a 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:29.279 new face always helps too, But just just to be 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:30.960 prepared and be able to play, to be able to 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.640 read when it's necessary but when and also be able 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.279 to just play the bass, So I never considered myself 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.360 working at being a part of a group and the 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.400 record crew. You know, you mentioned that, you know, like 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:47.719 those guys and Guy and get Out with Carol. They 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.080 were la Is a very huge scene, very big scene. 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.479 Holly was a big scene in music, and they just 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:58.360 happened to be the kind of selective group that producers 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:00.960 would hire because they were work together all the time. 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:06.360 Between me and Bernard, Paul Griffin and that well you 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:13.520 just basically Corneill dupri Billy Butler, we worked together so much. 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:15.960 Eric Gale, I don't know why that he should have 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:20.840 been first. We worked together so much. If I were 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:22.720 a producer, I would hire the people that are on 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.000 your record, that would work for Alan, that worked for 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.280 c I mean, I mean you hired the same people 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.920 I think now. I Now, don't get me wrong. I 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.400 think I'm a good bass player. I think I'm a 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:38.680 very good musician. But but I will say this a 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.560 large part of me being involved in so many projects, 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.440 it's because a habit. My name was a habit. Who 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.920 should we get on a bass, Chuck Raine, just like 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.520 who should we get on the guitar? I mean the drums? 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.200 Bernard pretty because our names were a habit. We were 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.320 on everybody's records, and so usually people hire the last 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.160 person that they saw or the one that they remember. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.960 I did. Jams I was a bachelor thought I was 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.120 kind of halfway cute to begin with. But I have 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.560 a lot of a lot of friends, you know, and 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.800 played my bass all of the time, and jams I 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.880 played for nothing many many times. That's how I got 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.040 into business. I think we all went that way with Eric. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.200 You know, you you got a year coming up, you 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.400 don't have a budget, and you want to do it 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.320 on Sunday. I'm not working on Sunday. And you tell 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.760 me that that Paul Griffin or that Eric Gale or 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:33.520 burn our parties on the yate to what I want 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:35.959 to share it with him. So I played a whole 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:37.800 lot for nothing. I kind of think that that's what 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.400 kind of helped both of us in that if I 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.200 do something for you for nothing and you happen to 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:44.880 get it signed and then you want to do the 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.800 rest of the album, basically people will call the same 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.280 people to help them out, and I help out just 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:51.600 about wanting to play the bass. 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:56.600 Now, I would say that as as a listener, What 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.920 made both of you very distinctive in your playing style 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.920 is the fact that you were able to infuse your 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.520 personality per se in these songs. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:07.800 Normally I would think that. 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.680 I mean, I've been told by many a producer musician, 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.400 like you know, when you do a session, just do 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.720 what the song is called for, try not to infuse 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:22.400 yourself too much in it. But as far as trademarks 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.920 are concerned, I mean, I think of you, and I 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:29.840 instantly think of like that's your that's your little business 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.520 card or your little graffiti tag left on every song. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:37.760 So whenever I hear those those near harmonic slide notes, 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.880 I know, okay, this is a chuck brainy affair. And 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.640 the same with Bernard Purty. I mean, I you know, 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:52.360 I'll be honest with you. So my father was a singer, 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:56.400 a musician, a singer who had his period like in 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.360 the fifties and did some stuff in the seventies. He 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.320 had a du wop called Lee Andrews and the Hearts, 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:07.880 and so yeah, that's my dad, I think. So there 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:12.840 was a session that producer Billy Jackson was having in 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.760 the early seventies. So I was at this gig and 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.920 Bernard was the drummer in the gig, and I was 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.640 around four years old, and. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.120 At the end of the session, my dad says aid, here, come. 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.680 Here, and he says, I want you to shake this 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.840 man his hand. And he's like, Bernard, I want you 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.160 to tell my son how you keep food on the table. 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:37.680 And I'll never forget. This is the first thing I 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.720 remember in life. Bernard said the two and the four. 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:43.960 And at the time I was confused, like huh. But 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:50.760 my dad was such a stickler and disciplinary for just 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:51.640 keep it in the pocket. 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:53.959 That's all you gotta do. You keep it in the pocket, 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:55.160 your work forever. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.120 And of course you know, when you're young, you're impressionable, 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.560 you want to go all over the place. But I 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:05.720 will say that you were able to. I wouldn't know people. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:10.240 People know about the fabled pretty shuffle, which of course 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:19.600 is kind of a slow down halftime groove, which for 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.640 for listeners of today, I would actually say that the 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:29.960 pretty shuffle could be the genesis of what a lot 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:34.960 of trap producers today. I feel like that's the beginning 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.800 of trap with the pretty shuffle is basically trap music 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.880 today is basically the pretty shuffle minuses to swing on it, 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:46.240 so still halftime, got and a lot of high hat 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:52.599 grace notes on it. But in addition to like your fills, likesps, 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.000 all these things, all these fills, how are you able 0:11:56.040 --> 0:12:00.800 to insert your personality on one songs? 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.079 Uh? That? 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.200 Otherwise I feel like any other producer would say, I 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.559 just want it straight, no filler, Like were you were 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:15.560 producers then giving you guys freedom to add your personality. 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:21.040 To things, and or you just have free reign of 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:21.520 the land. 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:29.160 We have never ever had free range. Really, when you 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.280 get free range is when you can actually tell the 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.960 producer try it, you might like it. 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.400 So you're saying, have you met a producer that was 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.120 a little bit like, well that's too much? 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:43.320 Oh? 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:49.839 Really you had to fight to get here, But. 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:57.800 There's fighting is the right word. But diplomacy, that's the 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.120 one that I had to learn. That was the hardest 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:05.280 thing in the world for me, because I knew immediately 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.480 when you ask for something, what you knew, what you 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:13.880 wanted to, what you wanted to hear. Having chucked on 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:20.440 the base freed me, okay, it freed me through. I 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:25.880 could do the pretty shuffle, I could do the circle 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:26.640 into music. 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.520 So he was the anchor, Yes, and okay. This is 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.679 similar to the relationship with Ron Carter and Tony Williams, 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.600 where Ron Carter was the anchor of Miles Davis and 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.160 allowed Tony Williams to freedom to weave in and out. 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.840 So it's that's very interesting because I would say the 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:47.160 same thing about him. See a lot of my rhythm ideas, 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.079 a lot of ideas when I do it, were like 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.520 when I'm giving the chord chart. I come up with 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:56.720 great ideas by getting rhythm input from the drums. And 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:58.720 like I said earlier, if I were a drummer, I 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.200 know I would play just like him because of the 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.959 way that it feels. But like I sit on his shoulder, 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.440 he might think he's sitting on mine, but I'm sitting 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:06.840 on his. 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.360 But what he just said earlier, if I had to 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:15.800 play bass, I would be Chuck Randie, and I'd be 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.600 better than Chuck ran All my life I wanted to 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.280 be better than Chuck Randy, but I can't play the bass. 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.280 Who do you who both of you? Who do you 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.880 feel your greatest disciples were? 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:30.600 Like? 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:31.720 I would think. 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.480 As a listener, I would kind of think that perhaps 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.920 as a drummer, maybe Steve Arne, who played with the 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:46.320 average white man, was a student of yours because he 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.400 would infuse your personality and he had a tight pocket 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.120 rhythm and as a bassis. I always thought that Willie 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:59.520 Weeks was very severely under championed as far as his 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.000 playing style and infusing yourself. But in your eyes, like, 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:08.960 who who were some of the musicians that you felt 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.160 or maybe you don't see the mass disciples, maybe they 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.000 were just your equal peers or whatever, But like, who 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.160 were the cats that you guys enjoyed or or perhaps 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:22.120 were a little like hmm, okay, I gotta. 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:26.320 You know, I get something from everybody, Okay. Basically I 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.480 came out of King Curtis's band. I was there for 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:34.120 four years and he is my musical father hero because 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.080 he taught me discipline, being on time, when to do 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:41.520 something and when not to do it. And they're playing tune. 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.400 That was my that's that's that's so, I would say 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.960 King Curtis. And he wasn't a bass player. But other 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.720 than that, what was he like as a band leader? 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:52.040 Great? Really? 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.200 I mean nobody could I mean, he was the epitome 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:55.960 of a band leader. 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:58.840 And why was he the go to md for a 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:00.160 lot of these projects. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:05.160 That because his talent. It's telling everybody knew him number one, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.800 that he was a great musician. He also knew who 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.240 the guys were. He knew who the musicians were that 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.200 could play. Okay, And if he called you to play, 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.000 he wouldn't have called you if he knew that you 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.280 couldn't do it because he was a rhythm If he 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:20.960 listen to the way he plays, he was like a 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.320 drummer or a bass player. So I would say King Curtis. 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.560 Other than that, James Jamieson has been very influential to 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.240 the way that I think as a bass player. So 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.840 those two people first come to mind, James Jamison, King Curtis. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.560 Now I could go on forever, but I. 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:41.880 Was going to say the same, but you can count 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:46.520 me in on King Curtis, Okay, most most definitely. The 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:50.000 other one was my teacher, mister Lezzard Hayberd. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:50.440 Okay. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.960 He had fourteen piece orchestra that wasn't his. It's called 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.440 the Clyde Besicks Orchestra. But I got this in my 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:08.960 hometown in Elkton, Maryland. Every Friday and Saturday, that band 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:16.199 played and they played dance music. Everything was dance. You 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:22.000 have to move. You gotta play something simple. Simple is 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.240 the key to what music is, and that's what people remember. 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.400 They can hum, they can sing, they can do anything 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:35.119 they want, but you need to move the butts in 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.080 the chairs, the feet, whatever that had to be done. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:44.760 They had to move their bodies and the people sitting 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:47.520 can move in a chair. 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.480 Well, let me ask, Okay, So I know that you 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:57.080 guys came from an era and I listened, even as 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.119 someone in the hip hop generation, for a lot of 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.800 stuff that we gravitate towards. It is all pocket based, 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.800 finding the perfect four measures of nothing, fancy of nothing, 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:12.639 just straight pocket. I mean, I have my thoughts and 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:20.600 I've had a lot of arguments on social media concerning 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.000 what I feel about the state of Okay. So right now, 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:28.000 in twenty nineteen, we're kind of in the era of 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.720 the polar opposite of where you two came from. And 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:35.639 there's a thing called gospel chops, and gospel chops are 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.320 kind of like it's kind of like watching an All 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.000 Star NBA basketball game. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:43.400 Now we know that true NBA. 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:50.480 Sportsmanship and the mark of a true championship team are 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:51.760 people that know their roles. 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.080 You know, this guy's really good to assist. 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.440 But this guy's good at outside shooting, and this guy's 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.960 good at dribbling, this guy's great. A rebounds like everyone 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:03.439 knows their roles. However, in an All Star game, you 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.080 do run into the danger of if you have five 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.560 Lebrons on the squad, or if you have five Michael 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.800 Jordan's on the same squad, then suddenly it's overkilled. So 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:20.320 a lot of musicians today, because we live in a 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:26.000 highlight real era, it's sort of like the musical equivalent 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:27.760 of hey ma, look at me, look at me, look 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:29.600 at me, look at me, and whatever I have to 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.399 do to get your attention, I will do it. So 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.119 I mean it's it's it's a cute novelty for a while, 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.800 but some similar to like a ropodope style, you get 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:45.520 worn out and you've never seen you rarely see musicians 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:50.320 trust the process of playing in the pocket, just playing 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.560 a groove without feel free or without Okay, I'm gonna 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.280 go off time here and then I'll pick them up later. 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.639 So but I will say that in the set in 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:05.960 which a lot of your work is prominent, the genesis 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.240 of what I now knew is gospel chops was just 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.120 being born. So like when new styles are coming in 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:16.400 as far as bass playing, say, let's Stanley Clark, Let's 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:21.119 say with the playing of Lewis Johnson or even Larry Graham, 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:26.959 where it's like, okay, now, funk songs in E minor 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.560 and going all over the place is a thing like 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:36.160 what keeps you grounded and just keeping straight ahead and 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.280 being such a melodic pocket bass player. 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.359 Well, I've sort of been trained to first to do 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:47.160 with the leader wants and how they're doing. Also too, 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:51.199 from our generation, the me aspect of us was a 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.199 little different, and that the social media was not at 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:56.080 all like it is now. Like I could come to 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.320 the studio like Hran Bullock, come to the studio but 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:04.119 naked and play Nobody cares. Now of course, when I say. 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.520 Basically Iron Bullet was a little crazy with this. 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:08.479 Oh no, Well he would dressed, he would wear no 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.520 wearing those shoes and stuff like that, you know, but 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.280 he was such a good player it doesn't matter. In 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.200 New York in particular, so like we didn't have to 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:20.119 I didn't have to look good to go to a session, right, okay, 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.000 unless you're someone like Bernard. He wore stuit every day 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:28.640 he's clean. He was clean, But you know, I would 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:34.119 think to answer that question sort of like today's. I know, 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:38.160 at Victor Wooden's camp, where I'm a regular instructor every year, right, Uh, 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:42.240 they posted my AllMusic dot Com resume on the barn wall. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:47.639 It's nineteen pages. So at the time I must have 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:52.080 been well, I won't say, but I wasn't. You know, 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:53.960 I've been around for a while. I've been around all right, 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.119 and so like in talking to the students and in 0:21:56.240 --> 0:22:00.480 my rotations there were two or three students. I found 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:02.159 it hard to believe that I was involved in so 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.040 much stuff until I told him how old I was. 0:22:05.040 --> 0:22:08.000 They think today they wake up on Monday, they want 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:11.119 to be Stanley Clark on Friday, or they want to 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:15.240 be a Larry Graham, and they don't understand that Stanley Clark, 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:19.880 Larry Graham, Chuck Rainey, James Jamieson. Before you even heard 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:23.680 of us, we had a large background of experience and 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.320 playing with a lot of people like I've been on 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:28.200 the road, which just about every R and B act 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:32.359 in the out of the fifties and sixties before I 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.000 even got to do one session. Okay, you know, so 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:36.640 like a lot of the guys that day. They wanted 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:40.200 too quick. Also too they wanted for another reason. They 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:42.200 wanted to look at me. They want for that. They 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.240 wanted to say, look at me. I'm just a bass player. 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.040 I just want to play the bass. I get a 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.320 kick out of playing the bass. And I'm a lady 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.440 that it shows. 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.920 No, no, no, no, you see, yeah, the opposite. 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:05.840 Definitely, most definitely everything that he said, I'm gonna double it. Okay, 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:10.199 But I had a big, big problem when I was 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:13.440 coming because I had to beg for everything that I got. 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:18.719 And I you sure, all right, all right? Can you 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:23.840 give me an example of a gig that you almost 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.240 didn't get that you had to like, Please please give 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.359 me a chance, because I would think the work would 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:29.200 speak for itself. 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:55.240 Just one look, and I felt so really, just one look. 0:23:56.080 --> 0:24:00.760 Bonnie Richmond came around the corner. He's the contractor. There 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:06.920 was not one drummer, and Sweet and Charlie's the bar, 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:15.080 none around the corners, and the other bar the restaurant, 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:20.800 not one drummer. And I was running after him. Please 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:23.119 please please, I'm a drummer. I'm good, I'm good. I 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:26.080 can do anything, I can play anything. I read music. 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:29.639 I do whatever has to be done. I begged and 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:34.360 pleaded and I followed him for the fifteen minutes that 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:40.280 he was out there looking and this was all a demo. Really, 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.920 this was a demo. So I got there. There was 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:55.800 Bob bush Now Hayes, Ernie Hayes, and the guitars Wally Richardson. 0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:00.439 They were sitting there. They had been sitting there for 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:05.560 half hour or more waiting for a drummer to show up. 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:10.040