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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Sugar, Steve and In this week's QLs

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Speaker 2: classic episode, Quest Love and I sit down with legendary

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Speaker 2: musicians Chuck Rainey and Bernard Perty to talk through how

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Speaker 2: they influenced and in some cases invented, the ubiquitous.

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Speaker 3: Groove that became the music of our Lives.

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Speaker 2: Originally released April seventeenth, twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, do not attempt to adjust your dial.

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Speaker 1: This is a special special edition of Quest Love Supreme

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Speaker 1: only on Pandora. If you remember previously when Sugar to

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Speaker 1: Steve and.

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Speaker 3: I had a chance to chat it.

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Speaker 1: Up with brother Herb Albert, we just did a rogue

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Speaker 1: episode without the family, so we are still family. But

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Speaker 1: right now this is ague episode of Quest Left Supreme.

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Speaker 1: I would say, right now we are having a summit

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Speaker 1: meeting of the gods. We have two gentlemen who have

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Speaker 1: shaped some of the most daring art, funk, pop, rock,

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Speaker 1: soul music of our lives. Not of music, but just

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Speaker 1: of our lives. Our first guest brother Chuck Rainey, his

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Speaker 1: session resume is life Goals, having played on classic album

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Speaker 1: after classic album after classic album, projects and musicians such

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Speaker 1: as Brother Cal Jada, Eddie Harris, Laura Niro, George Benson,

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Speaker 1: Quincy Jones, ROBERTA. Flecton, Hathaway Crusaders, Don a Berg, Bobby Humphrey,

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Speaker 1: Marlina Shawl, Sergio Mendez, Marvin Gay, Minnie Ripertons, Steale Dan.

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Speaker 1: It just goes on forever and not to be outdone.

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Speaker 1: As a drummer, Brother Bernard Purdy inspired the drummer, who

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Speaker 1: inspired the drummers, who inspires drummers and continues on. This

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Speaker 1: man is quite literally unavoid and his influence both men

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Speaker 1: are his resume. Also to reads like life Goals, name

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Speaker 1: It Herbie Man, Jack McDuff, James Brown, Nina Simone, Shirley Scott,

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Speaker 1: Hank Crawford, Gene mm Is, Dizzy Gillespie, B B. King,

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Speaker 1: Five Stair Steps, David Fat, Anne Newman, Sister Retha, Franklin, King,

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Speaker 1: Curtis Gil Scott, Heron, Les McCann, Esther Phillips, Kat Stevens,

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Speaker 1: Hall of Notes, Joe Cockerham, The Beatles, and Yes, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said it, Steely Dan. Please give it up, y'all

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Speaker 1: for the one and only Chuck Rainey and Bernard Purney.

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Speaker 3: It's a QLs.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate you guys making it happen. It should

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Speaker 1: be noted that both of you are kind of doing

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Speaker 1: the rounds in celebration of a film that we never

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Speaker 1: thought would see the light of day, which is Uhretha

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Speaker 1: Franklin's documentary Amazing Grace.

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Speaker 3: Many people know that.

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Speaker 1: The classical live album that came from those sessions and

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Speaker 1: in the in nineteen seventy two, but many people don't

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Speaker 1: know that there was an accompanying film that went along

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Speaker 1: with it, and it's been a miracle to finally get

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Speaker 1: it out to the people, and I highly recommend it.

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Speaker 1: It's a masterclass and a miracle. So we thank you

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Speaker 1: for coming. So how weird is it to I mean,

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Speaker 1: you guys are have written history and we just take

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Speaker 1: for musicians like myself and all my peers take from it.

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Speaker 1: But for you is it just like breathing like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's nothing, like it's just a Thursday. I'm gonna make

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Speaker 1: history today.

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Speaker 4: Like oh, never like that.

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Speaker 3: So you're appreciative of where we are now?

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Speaker 4: Well, number one, working is important, you know, having a gig,

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Speaker 4: and of course what makes it better is when you

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Speaker 4: get paired up with the same person a whole lot. Okay,

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Speaker 4: and so Bernard and I have been paired up a

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Speaker 4: whole lot. He's so he's as much a part of

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Speaker 4: my career as I am. And if I were a drummer,

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Speaker 4: my man, I would play just like him.

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Speaker 1: Well, explain this to me as as a musician asking UH,

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Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies, what were the most important

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Speaker 1: UH traits or what are the most important characteristics to

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Speaker 1: have to make sure that you are always constantly being

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Speaker 1: the call guy, being the go to person for session gigs.

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Speaker 5: Well, for me, it was always the easiest part.

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Speaker 3: Getting the gig was the easiest part.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'd beg What's I knew? I knew how to.

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Speaker 3: Beg you you begged for gigs?

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Speaker 5: No shame whatsoever, really, And the beauty of it was

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Speaker 5: I wasn't begging just for myself. I was taking the

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Speaker 5: credit of Rainy and everybody else that wanted to do

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Speaker 5: it with us, but Chuck, and I was actually fifty

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Speaker 5: percent of all the records that I made with Chuck.

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Speaker 1: So how in a time in which okay, let's take

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Speaker 1: the late sixties and a time in which a crew

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Speaker 1: like the Wrecking Crew were the default go to people

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Speaker 1: for a lot of West Coast musicians, Like, how are

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Speaker 1: you able to even ease your way into a system

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Speaker 1: in which you know, most people just want half the time,

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Speaker 1: I just hear like, hey, half the people just show

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Speaker 1: up on time. The other half just shuts up and

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Speaker 1: do what they're told. They're not high maintenance. Like how

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Speaker 1: do you infiltrate your way into a system that otherwise

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Speaker 1: normally would be occupied by someone who's been grandfathered in

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Speaker 1: and locked into a gig?

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Speaker 4: You know, actually that's a great question for me. I'm

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Speaker 4: a bass player. I've always wanted to just play the bass.

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Speaker 4: So whenever I get a call coming out of King

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Speaker 4: Curtis's band, just but everybody came through his band and

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Speaker 4: King Curtis All Stars in the sixties sixties ended up

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Speaker 4: in the studio, and I just wanted to play, so like,

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Speaker 4: I did not maneuver my way into anything other than

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Speaker 4: just be the best player that I could. And a

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Speaker 4: new face always helps too, But just just to be

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Speaker 4: prepared and be able to play, to be able to

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Speaker 4: read when it's necessary but when and also be able

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Speaker 4: to just play the bass, So I never considered myself

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Speaker 4: working at being a part of a group and the

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Speaker 4: record crew. You know, you mentioned that, you know, like

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Speaker 4: those guys and Guy and get Out with Carol. They

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Speaker 4: were la Is a very huge scene, very big scene.

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Speaker 4: Holly was a big scene in music, and they just

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Speaker 4: happened to be the kind of selective group that producers

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Speaker 4: would hire because they were work together all the time.

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Speaker 4: Between me and Bernard, Paul Griffin and that well you

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Speaker 4: just basically Corneill dupri Billy Butler, we worked together so much.

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Speaker 4: Eric Gale, I don't know why that he should have

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Speaker 4: been first. We worked together so much. If I were

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Speaker 4: a producer, I would hire the people that are on

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Speaker 4: your record, that would work for Alan, that worked for

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Speaker 4: c I mean, I mean you hired the same people

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Speaker 4: I think now. I Now, don't get me wrong. I

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Speaker 4: think I'm a good bass player. I think I'm a

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Speaker 4: very good musician. But but I will say this a

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Speaker 4: large part of me being involved in so many projects,

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Speaker 4: it's because a habit. My name was a habit. Who

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Speaker 4: should we get on a bass, Chuck Raine, just like

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Speaker 4: who should we get on the guitar? I mean the drums?

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Speaker 4: Bernard pretty because our names were a habit. We were

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Speaker 4: on everybody's records, and so usually people hire the last

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Speaker 4: person that they saw or the one that they remember.

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Speaker 4: I did. Jams I was a bachelor thought I was

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Speaker 4: kind of halfway cute to begin with. But I have

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Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of friends, you know, and

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Speaker 4: played my bass all of the time, and jams I

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Speaker 4: played for nothing many many times. That's how I got

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Speaker 4: into business. I think we all went that way with Eric.

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Speaker 4: You know, you you got a year coming up, you

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Speaker 4: don't have a budget, and you want to do it

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Speaker 4: on Sunday. I'm not working on Sunday. And you tell

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Speaker 4: me that that Paul Griffin or that Eric Gale or

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Speaker 4: burn our parties on the yate to what I want

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Speaker 4: to share it with him. So I played a whole

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Speaker 4: lot for nothing. I kind of think that that's what

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Speaker 4: kind of helped both of us in that if I

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Speaker 4: do something for you for nothing and you happen to

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Speaker 4: get it signed and then you want to do the

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Speaker 4: rest of the album, basically people will call the same

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Speaker 4: people to help them out, and I help out just

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Speaker 4: about wanting to play the bass.

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Speaker 1: Now, I would say that as as a listener, What

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Speaker 1: made both of you very distinctive in your playing style

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Speaker 1: is the fact that you were able to infuse your

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Speaker 1: personality per se in these songs.

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Speaker 3: Normally I would think that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've been told by many a producer musician,

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Speaker 1: like you know, when you do a session, just do

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Speaker 1: what the song is called for, try not to infuse

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Speaker 1: yourself too much in it. But as far as trademarks

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Speaker 1: are concerned, I mean, I think of you, and I

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Speaker 1: instantly think of like that's your that's your little business

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Speaker 1: card or your little graffiti tag left on every song.

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Speaker 1: So whenever I hear those those near harmonic slide notes,

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Speaker 1: I know, okay, this is a chuck brainy affair. And

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Speaker 1: the same with Bernard Purty. I mean, I you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. So my father was a singer,

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Speaker 1: a musician, a singer who had his period like in

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Speaker 1: the fifties and did some stuff in the seventies. He

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Speaker 1: had a du wop called Lee Andrews and the Hearts,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, that's my dad, I think. So there

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Speaker 1: was a session that producer Billy Jackson was having in

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Speaker 1: the early seventies. So I was at this gig and

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Speaker 1: Bernard was the drummer in the gig, and I was

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Speaker 1: around four years old, and.

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Speaker 3: At the end of the session, my dad says aid, here, come.

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Speaker 1: Here, and he says, I want you to shake this

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Speaker 1: man his hand. And he's like, Bernard, I want you

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Speaker 1: to tell my son how you keep food on the table.

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Speaker 1: And I'll never forget. This is the first thing I

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Speaker 1: remember in life. Bernard said the two and the four.

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Speaker 1: And at the time I was confused, like huh. But

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Speaker 1: my dad was such a stickler and disciplinary for just

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Speaker 1: keep it in the pocket.

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Speaker 3: That's all you gotta do. You keep it in the pocket,

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Speaker 3: your work forever.

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Speaker 1: And of course you know, when you're young, you're impressionable,

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Speaker 1: you want to go all over the place. But I

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Speaker 1: will say that you were able to. I wouldn't know people.

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Speaker 1: People know about the fabled pretty shuffle, which of course

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Speaker 1: is kind of a slow down halftime groove, which for

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Speaker 1: for listeners of today, I would actually say that the

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Speaker 1: pretty shuffle could be the genesis of what a lot

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Speaker 1: of trap producers today. I feel like that's the beginning

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Speaker 1: of trap with the pretty shuffle is basically trap music

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Speaker 1: today is basically the pretty shuffle minuses to swing on it,

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Speaker 1: so still halftime, got and a lot of high hat

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Speaker 1: grace notes on it. But in addition to like your fills, likesps,

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Speaker 1: all these things, all these fills, how are you able

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Speaker 1: to insert your personality on one songs?

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Speaker 3: Uh? That?

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Speaker 1: Otherwise I feel like any other producer would say, I

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Speaker 1: just want it straight, no filler, Like were you were

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Speaker 1: producers then giving you guys freedom to add your personality.

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Speaker 3: To things, and or you just have free reign of

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Speaker 3: the land.

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Speaker 5: We have never ever had free range. Really, when you

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Speaker 5: get free range is when you can actually tell the

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Speaker 5: producer try it, you might like it.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying, have you met a producer that was

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Speaker 1: a little bit like, well that's too much?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Really you had to fight to get here, But.

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Speaker 5: There's fighting is the right word. But diplomacy, that's the

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Speaker 5: one that I had to learn. That was the hardest

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Speaker 5: thing in the world for me, because I knew immediately

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Speaker 5: when you ask for something, what you knew, what you

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Speaker 5: wanted to, what you wanted to hear. Having chucked on

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Speaker 5: the base freed me, okay, it freed me through. I

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Speaker 5: could do the pretty shuffle, I could do the circle

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Speaker 5: into music.

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Speaker 1: So he was the anchor, Yes, and okay. This is

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Speaker 1: similar to the relationship with Ron Carter and Tony Williams,

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Speaker 1: where Ron Carter was the anchor of Miles Davis and

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Speaker 1: allowed Tony Williams to freedom to weave in and out.

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Speaker 4: So it's that's very interesting because I would say the

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Speaker 4: same thing about him. See a lot of my rhythm ideas,

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Speaker 4: a lot of ideas when I do it, were like

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Speaker 4: when I'm giving the chord chart. I come up with

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Speaker 4: great ideas by getting rhythm input from the drums. And

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Speaker 4: like I said earlier, if I were a drummer, I

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Speaker 4: know I would play just like him because of the

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Speaker 4: way that it feels. But like I sit on his shoulder,

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Speaker 4: he might think he's sitting on mine, but I'm sitting

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Speaker 4: on his.

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Speaker 5: But what he just said earlier, if I had to

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Speaker 5: play bass, I would be Chuck Randie, and I'd be

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Speaker 5: better than Chuck ran All my life I wanted to

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Speaker 5: be better than Chuck Randy, but I can't play the bass.

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Speaker 3: Who do you who both of you? Who do you

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Speaker 3: feel your greatest disciples were?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: I would think.

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Speaker 1: As a listener, I would kind of think that perhaps

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Speaker 1: as a drummer, maybe Steve Arne, who played with the

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Speaker 1: average white man, was a student of yours because he

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Speaker 1: would infuse your personality and he had a tight pocket

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Speaker 1: rhythm and as a bassis. I always thought that Willie

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Speaker 1: Weeks was very severely under championed as far as his

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Speaker 1: playing style and infusing yourself. But in your eyes, like,

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Speaker 1: who who were some of the musicians that you felt

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Speaker 1: or maybe you don't see the mass disciples, maybe they

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Speaker 1: were just your equal peers or whatever, But like, who

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Speaker 1: were the cats that you guys enjoyed or or perhaps

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Speaker 1: were a little like hmm, okay, I gotta.

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Speaker 4: You know, I get something from everybody, Okay. Basically I

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Speaker 4: came out of King Curtis's band. I was there for

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Speaker 4: four years and he is my musical father hero because

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Speaker 4: he taught me discipline, being on time, when to do

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Speaker 4: something and when not to do it. And they're playing tune.

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Speaker 4: That was my that's that's that's so, I would say

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Speaker 4: King Curtis. And he wasn't a bass player. But other

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Speaker 4: than that, what was he like as a band leader?

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Speaker 3: Great? Really?

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Speaker 4: I mean nobody could I mean, he was the epitome

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Speaker 4: of a band leader.

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Speaker 3: And why was he the go to md for a

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Speaker 3: lot of these projects.

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Speaker 4: That because his talent. It's telling everybody knew him number one,

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Speaker 4: that he was a great musician. He also knew who

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Speaker 4: the guys were. He knew who the musicians were that

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Speaker 4: could play. Okay, And if he called you to play,

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Speaker 4: he wouldn't have called you if he knew that you

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Speaker 4: couldn't do it because he was a rhythm If he

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Speaker 4: listen to the way he plays, he was like a

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Speaker 4: drummer or a bass player. So I would say King Curtis.

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Speaker 4: Other than that, James Jamieson has been very influential to

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Speaker 4: the way that I think as a bass player. So

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Speaker 4: those two people first come to mind, James Jamison, King Curtis.

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Speaker 4: Now I could go on forever, but I.

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Speaker 5: Was going to say the same, but you can count

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Speaker 5: me in on King Curtis, Okay, most most definitely. The

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Speaker 5: other one was my teacher, mister Lezzard Hayberd.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 5: He had fourteen piece orchestra that wasn't his. It's called

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Speaker 5: the Clyde Besicks Orchestra. But I got this in my

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Speaker 5: hometown in Elkton, Maryland. Every Friday and Saturday, that band

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Speaker 5: played and they played dance music. Everything was dance. You

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Speaker 5: have to move. You gotta play something simple. Simple is

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Speaker 5: the key to what music is, and that's what people remember.

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Speaker 5: They can hum, they can sing, they can do anything

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Speaker 5: they want, but you need to move the butts in

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Speaker 5: the chairs, the feet, whatever that had to be done.

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Speaker 5: They had to move their bodies and the people sitting

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Speaker 5: can move in a chair.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask, Okay, So I know that you

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Speaker 1: guys came from an era and I listened, even as

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Speaker 1: someone in the hip hop generation, for a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff that we gravitate towards. It is all pocket based,

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Speaker 1: finding the perfect four measures of nothing, fancy of nothing,

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Speaker 1: just straight pocket. I mean, I have my thoughts and

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Speaker 1: I've had a lot of arguments on social media concerning

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Speaker 1: what I feel about the state of Okay. So right now,

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, we're kind of in the era of

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Speaker 1: the polar opposite of where you two came from. And

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Speaker 1: there's a thing called gospel chops, and gospel chops are

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Speaker 1: kind of like it's kind of like watching an All

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Speaker 1: Star NBA basketball game.

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Speaker 3: Now we know that true NBA.

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Speaker 1: Sportsmanship and the mark of a true championship team are

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Speaker 1: people that know their roles.

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Speaker 3: You know, this guy's really good to assist.

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Speaker 1: But this guy's good at outside shooting, and this guy's

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Speaker 1: good at dribbling, this guy's great. A rebounds like everyone

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Speaker 1: knows their roles. However, in an All Star game, you

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Speaker 1: do run into the danger of if you have five

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Speaker 1: Lebrons on the squad, or if you have five Michael

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Speaker 1: Jordan's on the same squad, then suddenly it's overkilled. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of musicians today, because we live in a

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Speaker 1: highlight real era, it's sort of like the musical equivalent

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Speaker 1: of hey ma, look at me, look at me, look

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Speaker 1: at me, look at me, and whatever I have to

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Speaker 1: do to get your attention, I will do it. So

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's a cute novelty for a while,

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Speaker 1: but some similar to like a ropodope style, you get

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Speaker 1: worn out and you've never seen you rarely see musicians

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Speaker 1: trust the process of playing in the pocket, just playing

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Speaker 1: a groove without feel free or without Okay, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go off time here and then I'll pick them up later.

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Speaker 1: So but I will say that in the set in

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Speaker 1: which a lot of your work is prominent, the genesis

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Speaker 1: of what I now knew is gospel chops was just

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Speaker 1: being born. So like when new styles are coming in

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Speaker 1: as far as bass playing, say, let's Stanley Clark, Let's

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Speaker 1: say with the playing of Lewis Johnson or even Larry Graham,

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Speaker 1: where it's like, okay, now, funk songs in E minor

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Speaker 1: and going all over the place is a thing like

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Speaker 1: what keeps you grounded and just keeping straight ahead and

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Speaker 1: being such a melodic pocket bass player.

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Speaker 4: Well, I've sort of been trained to first to do

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Speaker 4: with the leader wants and how they're doing. Also too,

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Speaker 4: from our generation, the me aspect of us was a

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Speaker 4: little different, and that the social media was not at

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Speaker 4: all like it is now. Like I could come to

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Speaker 4: the studio like Hran Bullock, come to the studio but

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Speaker 4: naked and play Nobody cares. Now of course, when I say.

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Speaker 3: Basically Iron Bullet was a little crazy with this.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, Well he would dressed, he would wear no

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Speaker 4: wearing those shoes and stuff like that, you know, but

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Speaker 4: he was such a good player it doesn't matter. In

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Speaker 4: New York in particular, so like we didn't have to

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Speaker 4: I didn't have to look good to go to a session, right, okay,

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Speaker 4: unless you're someone like Bernard. He wore stuit every day

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Speaker 4: he's clean. He was clean, But you know, I would

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Speaker 4: think to answer that question sort of like today's. I know,

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Speaker 4: at Victor Wooden's camp, where I'm a regular instructor every year, right, Uh,

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Speaker 4: they posted my AllMusic dot Com resume on the barn wall.

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Speaker 4: It's nineteen pages. So at the time I must have

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Speaker 4: been well, I won't say, but I wasn't. You know,

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Speaker 4: I've been around for a while. I've been around all right,

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Speaker 4: and so like in talking to the students and in

359
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Speaker 4: my rotations there were two or three students. I found

360
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Speaker 4: it hard to believe that I was involved in so

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Speaker 4: much stuff until I told him how old I was.

362
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Speaker 4: They think today they wake up on Monday, they want

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Speaker 4: to be Stanley Clark on Friday, or they want to

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Speaker 4: be a Larry Graham, and they don't understand that Stanley Clark,

365
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Speaker 4: Larry Graham, Chuck Rainey, James Jamieson. Before you even heard

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Speaker 4: of us, we had a large background of experience and

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Speaker 4: playing with a lot of people like I've been on

368
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Speaker 4: the road, which just about every R and B act

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Speaker 4: in the out of the fifties and sixties before I

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Speaker 4: even got to do one session. Okay, you know, so

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Speaker 4: like a lot of the guys that day. They wanted

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Speaker 4: too quick. Also too they wanted for another reason. They

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Speaker 4: wanted to look at me. They want for that. They

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Speaker 4: wanted to say, look at me. I'm just a bass player.

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Speaker 4: I just want to play the bass. I get a

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Speaker 4: kick out of playing the bass. And I'm a lady

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Speaker 4: that it shows.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, you see, yeah, the opposite.

379
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Speaker 5: Definitely, most definitely everything that he said, I'm gonna double it. Okay,

380
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Speaker 5: But I had a big, big problem when I was

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Speaker 5: coming because I had to beg for everything that I got.

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Speaker 1: And I you sure, all right, all right? Can you

383
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Speaker 1: give me an example of a gig that you almost

384
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Speaker 1: didn't get that you had to like, Please please give

385
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Speaker 1: me a chance, because I would think the work would

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Speaker 1: speak for itself.

387
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Speaker 5: Just one look, and I felt so really, just one look.

388
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Speaker 5: Bonnie Richmond came around the corner. He's the contractor. There

389
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Speaker 5: was not one drummer, and Sweet and Charlie's the bar,

390
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 5: none around the corners, and the other bar the restaurant,

391
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Speaker 5: not one drummer. And I was running after him. Please

392
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Speaker 5: please please, I'm a drummer. I'm good, I'm good. I

393
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Speaker 5: can do anything, I can play anything. I read music.

394
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Speaker 5: I do whatever has to be done. I begged and

395
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Speaker 5: pleaded and I followed him for the fifteen minutes that

396
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Speaker 5: he was out there looking and this was all a demo. Really,

397
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 5: this was a demo. So I got there. There was

398
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Speaker 5: Bob bush Now Hayes, Ernie Hayes, and the guitars Wally Richardson.

399
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Speaker 5: They were sitting there. They had been sitting there for

400
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Speaker 5: half hour or more waiting for a drummer to show up.

401
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Speaker 3: So they literally came in a restaurant for a bar

402
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Speaker 3: to find drummer.

403
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Speaker 4: That's a music Charlie's.

404
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Speaker 5: That's where everybody.

405
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 4: Everybody hung there, so.

406
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Speaker 3: That was like the holding place in.

407
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Speaker 4: The beefsteak Charlie, Is that the same beef steak?

408
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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is in California, New York, Okay, Broadway on Broadway,

409
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Speaker 1: right off of Brother Round on the corner.

410
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Speaker 3: So just one look, that's all it took.

411
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Speaker 2: Charlie's had like all you can eat shrimp right the

412
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Speaker 2: peel and eat.

413
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Speaker 3: Uh. The big salad bar did.

414
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Speaker 5: Yeah. Well that was one of the main reasons because

415
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Speaker 5: that was the cheapest thing in there.

416
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Speaker 4: Oh I see, and catered to musicians.

417
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Speaker 5: Thank you everybody. Because the musicians would play free in

418
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Speaker 5: the place, just to play. They didn't nobody, nobody wanted

419
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Speaker 5: any money. They wanted to be there, They got drinks.

420
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 5: They just that was the place to hang. But I

421
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 5: was actually too young to hang. But the thing was, oh,

422
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 5: you're right. But the beauty for me is that all

423
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 5: I did. I asked Ernie Hayes to play the piano,

424
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Speaker 5: and Bob Bush now he started playing the bass because

425
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Speaker 5: I wanted to find out what the tune was about.

426
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Speaker 5: So for me, basically, I just wanted to where the temple.

427
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Speaker 5: Just show me where the temple, and then I just

428
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Speaker 5: went crossed it only so I could just feel okay.

429
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Speaker 5: But I put the feeling into the four people. They

430
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 5: were in the control room fussing and cursing each other

431
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 5: out and everything else and bl and the engineer he

432
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 5: you know, tapped, hey, listen because he had turned it

433
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Speaker 5: up just a tiny bit just to hear yeah. And

434
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 5: then they turned they looked, they listened and it was like, whoa,

435
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 5: what's that? Well, who's the drummer who's earned Barnie Richmals,

436
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 5: I don't know, he's been bugging me. He said he

437
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 5: can play anything. I don't even know who he is,

438
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 5: you know, so they listen. She started singing because the

439
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 5: only thing that was missing was where the flavors should be.

440
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 5: Whether you're cling quarner notes, whether you're playing eights, whether

441
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 5: you're playing sixteenth or what are you planing?

442
00:27:58,600 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 3: Doted?

443
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 5: So you just have to know where the rhythm needs.

444
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: To be, can I ask? Okay?

445
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 1: So, based on everyone that I get on this podcast,

446
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: the story always varies.

447
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: I'm slowly finding out now again.

448
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: I was raised by, you know, a drill sergeant father

449
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: who's like, you know, you gotta you know, practice five

450
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: hours a day outside. No, you gotta practice, which I get.

451
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: How imperative or how much of an advantage was it

452
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: to be able to know how to read thoroughly? So

453
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: when new songs come to you, do you get a

454
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: cassette a week at advance or is it just like,

455
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: here's your charts, I'm giving you three minutes to look

456
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: it over.

457
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 3: Really listen.

458
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 5: If I got three minutes I had that was a

459
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 5: lifetime for me. What everybody go ahead?

460
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 4: We were young, okay, and Bob Bushnell and all those

461
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 4: people were at least ten years our senior.

462
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: Okay.

463
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 4: So when we came on the scene, we were younger

464
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 4: Eric Cornell, although Cornell were number us involved, but we

465
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 4: were young people and we also had a different view

466
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 4: of what he's saying about the groove. We played the

467
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 4: groove a little differently. I played more rhythm on my

468
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 4: base than Bob. He was older than I was. Now,

469
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 4: what did you just ask?

470
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 3: Well, I'm like, when you're getting a song.

471
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 4: Oh, now, will hold it? Hold it right there? Okay,

472
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 4: I'm being very honest with you. Okay, coming from demos,

473
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 4: nothing's written. And we both got involved in this business

474
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 4: doing demos, working for people who don't know sick and

475
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 4: from came here about music, but they have the money

476
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 4: and they have the connection, right, and so they just

477
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 4: hired people to make things up. Like most of the

478
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 4: most of the just make it. If there's a coord chart,

479
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: sometimes you will make out your own court chart. I

480
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 4: stopped doing that because there ain't my job.

481
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 3: But now I always felt like I was lied to.

482
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: You know, when you're eight years old and your dad's like,

483
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: you gotta go to Juilliard so you can know. I'm

484
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: under the impression that these albums I'm listening to were

485
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: thoroughly written out, like part for part for a part

486
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: here you go. And then I gotta get the piece

487
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: of paper and know one and two, three, and yeah,

488
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: you gotta know like I learned. I was taught that

489
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: you have to know how to read on site the

490
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: second you see these drum charts, because the ain't no producer

491
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: gonna have the patience to sit there and wait for

492
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: you to figure out, thank you, what it is.

493
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: But are you saying half the time, It's just like.

494
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 4: Not more than half the time.

495
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: Here's the chords and make up the rhythm.

496
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, call to Quincy. All of them. They don't write

497
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 4: no base parts.

498
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 5: And they don't write the drum punch.

499
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: So they're like, you got it.

500
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 4: And they're smart because the continuity to the director exactly.

501
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 4: They say, Okay, we know what to do here. Like

502
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 4: Walter and Donald did not know anything at all about

503
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 4: us at all. Garry Katz did because he was a

504
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 4: New York producer, right okay, and so like he would

505
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 4: hire because he knows Walter and Donald. Number one, they're

506
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: very strange to begin with. And when I say it's strange,

507
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 4: it's not negative. It's just that they're different. But they

508
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 4: don't know what to play. They don't know what the

509
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 4: bass should do. Maybe they have an idea. They don't

510
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 4: know what kind of drum beat should be there. They

511
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 4: don't know these things. They don't have that well you

512
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 4: know what I'm talking about. Even Quincy never wrote one

513
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 4: note for me.

514
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: Here.

515
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 3: It's like walking in space and all that stuff and art.

516
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 4: Now I tell you why that is. Yeah, okay, I

517
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 4: tell you why that is. You have people, You have

518
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 4: musicians that are talented. Of of course, talent is the

519
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 4: word to use, but they are. The rhythm is very important.

520
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 4: Like he said earlier, people want to dance, even in jazz,

521
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 4: they want to dance. And there are certain people that

522
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 4: can give you if you don't know what to play,

523
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 4: If you don't if you don't know what I should

524
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 4: play on this song, I bet you the house, the farm.

525
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: I got something for you if you ain't got nothing.

526
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 4: Because I'm a rhythm person and I've had experience. Well

527
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 4: it's only there's only seven notes in music rhythms. I

528
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 4: would think that probably there's thirty two, but I've only

529
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 4: seen maybe nine rhythms for the play as a bass player.

530
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 4: So now when you start worrying about reading, you have

531
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 4: to learn how to read by experience. Now you don't

532
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 4: have to, and you also have to have experience to

533
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 4: create something. But there are jobs that you get that.

534
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 4: We both have clients that write out everything, okay, but

535
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 4: then we have most of our clients that't write out nothing.

536
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 4: Thank you. They hired a person that can come up

537
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 4: with a part. I'm supposed to create a part for

538
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 4: you that sounds like you wrote it. So if you

539
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: look at the baselines that I play there, they are repetitive,

540
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 4: like the lines are repented because it sounds like Quincy

541
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 4: wrote it, or it sounds like Donnie Hathaway was different, meticulous.

542
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 4: See before you play anything, truck, before you do anything,

543
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 4: do this first, and I really don't want anything else.

544
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 3: Okay.

545
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 4: Now it took a couple of years for Donnie to

546
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 4: trust me to do because, like I was popular, and

547
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 4: I do have a style and a flare about how

548
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 4: I'm seeing things. But he insisted that you play this

549
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 4: first before you do your thing, and I don't really

550
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 4: want your thing. And he was a master, yes really.

551
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 5: Not only a master. But the point is is that

552
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 5: it wasn't his date, wasn't his. He was writing for

553
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 5: other artists. Okay, okay, So all of this was all

554
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 5: written down written out.

555
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 4: If you want that gig, you got to know how

556
00:33:59,520 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 4: to read.

557
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, there's so much of you're both of your

558
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: collective cannons?

559
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: Are you know.

560
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: So much to dig through? I'll briefly touch on a

561
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: few of them, but I'll start with what gig was

562
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: considered a fun gig? Who did you look forward to

563
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: as a basis as the drummers? Who's the one artist

564
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: like we're gonna have fun on this one?

565
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 3: Really?

566
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 5: Yes?

567
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 4: Yes?

568
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 3: Tell us?

569
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: Okay, let's pick a random song, tell me you're out

570
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: rock steady or just a memorable.

571
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 4: Rock steady is very interesting? Okay Number one. I love

572
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 4: telling this story, Okay, if I get along with no,

573
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 4: that's what this shows. We went down to Miami in

574
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: the wintertime. Living in New York in the winter is

575
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 4: different than living in Miami, okay, And so we're going

576
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 4: to Miami Beach and Landing took good care of us.

577
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 4: We were staying in a mansion, you know, uh, and

578
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 4: we played. Now, we went to the studio Criteria one

579
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 4: morning and our car picked us up okay before uh,

580
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: Tommy Dowell and Ritha and whoever else was there before

581
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 4: the car picked them up. So we got there first

582
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 4: with Jane Paul. And all I'm saying is Gene Paul.

583
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 5: Is Let's Paul's son.

584
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 4: Let's Paul's son. Okay, But Jeam Paul was the second engineer,

585
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 4: second everything that came out of Atlantic Records as far

586
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 4: as engineering goes, Tommy Dowell is the one that they

587
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,919
Speaker 4: look to wrong. Jean Paul. He's the one to set

588
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 4: the mics. He's the one to set the anyway, so

589
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 4: we we at criteria. We had a great breakfast. The

590
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,399
Speaker 4: sun is shining is in eighty five ninety degrees and

591
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 4: Aretha was there, so I guess Retha did come, but

592
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 4: Tommy Dowell and Jerry Wilston weren't there, and so Dream

593
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 4: Paul set up in the mic. I think it was

594
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 4: the second song that we've done. And and she taught

595
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 4: us the song. She taught us all the songs. She

596
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 4: would sit down and plays, say and teach us the song.

597
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 4: A Reef wasn't there or then they picked a Reef

598
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 4: up the arranger right, and so she taught us the song.

599
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 4: Now I'm when a Reef and and Tommy Diald and

600
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 4: Joy Western got there. We knew the song, but a

601
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 4: Reef job was he was the arranger, so he would

602
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,959
Speaker 4: now have to learn the song. So we sit there

603
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 4: and play what we knew. When he would write down

604
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 4: a chord chart, you know, he would write down and

605
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 4: he did that all the time, Right, okay, I write

606
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 4: a chord chard. Now we tracked the song and before

607
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 4: they got there as a demo, we demoed the song

608
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 4: as a demo. So when they got there, they heard

609
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 4: the demo and blah blah blah. I think we worked

610
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 4: all morning trying to improve it, improve, try to improve it.

611
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 4: So what you're hearing on rock Steady is a demo.

612
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 3: So the only thing this day they went back to

613
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 3: the original demo and kept the.

614
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 5: Went back to the original music that they heard and

615
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 5: the field and the field that was everything.

616
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 3: So he came in and tried to change it up

617
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 3: a little bit.

618
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 5: They always do. They always Every arranger in the world does.

619
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 4: It because they want to get the producer or the arranger.

620
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 4: They get paid for that, whether they did it or not.

621
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 4: But rock Steady is a demo. If you listen to it,

622
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 4: it almost you can see it in a way. But

623
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 4: it's the groove. It's the groove. And Aretha was playing

624
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 4: with us, she played with us, and so like a

625
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 4: thing about you mentioned the gospel world for a second. Now,

626
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 4: I'm out of the Pentecostal church and I've been immersed

627
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 4: in that all my life. And you can't get no

628
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 4: more rhythmic. You can't get no more feel out of

629
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 4: a good Pentecostal shutdown. You know. As far as we

630
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 4: like the amazing great album, it showed a little bit

631
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 4: of it, Yes, a little bit of it. Now the

632
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 4: border Song is not on it, but but the Border

633
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 4: Song is the most precious thing I've ever recorded, because

634
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 4: it takes me right back to my being being twelve

635
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 4: years old, sitting up in church and listened to the

636
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 4: choir okay, you know, and the feel of it is

637
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 4: that's gospel, That's Pentecostal gospel. And so we both said

638
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 4: that Retha's Fendler and cried. But listening to that that

639
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 4: choir was slamming. That choir was just it was very

640
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 4: large too, but slamming. U. So like it gets too,

641
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 4: I've talked so much stuff forgot what we were talking about.

642
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 4: Rock Steady, rock steady, Yes, that's a demo. We had

643
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 4: a good time that way too. H We had a

644
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 4: very very good time with that we did. I don't

645
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 4: know how many songs we did, but rock Steady is

646
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 4: a demo Andretha played with. She played with us on

647
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 4: every song, by the way, first, Yes.

648
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 3: How is he as a musician? Not? Not much is

649
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 3: made about her piano playing.

650
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 4: She is a great piano player, like Marlina Shaw, great

651
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 4: piano player.

652
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: Malina Saw played piano You kidding me?

653
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 4: What?

654
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 5: Oh man?

655
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 4: Penecostal like Valerie Simpson Pentecostal. Both they can play.

656
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 3: I never knew. And so is the piano play?

657
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 4: Well, she doesn't playing much because her nails is that

658
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 4: long now any white nails like she has played. I've

659
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 4: been on tour with her for the last nine years.

660
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 4: She retired. Wow, and we just hold the Japan okayd

661
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 4: of thing me and David T walking Harvey mation.

662
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: Does she still do the go away little boy speech?

663
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 5: Yeah?

664
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 4: Really man, that's after who is his bitch?

665
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 3: Who's this bitch? Anyway? Yeah?

666
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 4: I had that record, but Aretha had a lot to

667
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 4: do with. All she had to do was sit down down,

668
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 4: just sit down and play.

669
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 5: Tinker. She tinker.

670
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:44,760
Speaker 4: She just played with the field.

671
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 5: That's like, what's the whole thing?

672
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 4: Spanish Harlem is a song that crosses two rhythm borders. Right,

673
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 4: it is a to the bar and it's and it's

674
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 4: also a shuffle not shuffle, but it's two different grooves there.

675
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 5: Right, But it is the idea of it is it

676
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 5: is to make it feel like a shuffle because that

677
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 5: part I got from you.

678
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 4: No, but I got it from you.

679
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just gonna compliment each other whole episode.

680
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 5: No, but it's just see for me, I was fresh

681
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 5: out of Jamaica, okay, doing by Mindley and all this

682
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 5: other stuff I had done too.

683
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: You just casually dropped that like it's.

684
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 5: Well, I made two albums with it, the first two albums.

685
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 3: Really yeah, that's you.

686
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 5: Yes, But the point is is that right now it's

687
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 5: it's see, I don't mind anything with anybody. I don't

688
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 5: have a problem if somebody wants to take credit for somebody,

689
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 5: you go right ahead, because I know what I did

690
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 5: also too.

691
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 4: If you're listening, you can tell the difference between this

692
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 4: drummer and that drummer. You know the difference between this

693
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 4: bass player and that bass player and those And I'm

694
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 4: not talking about musicians, I'm talking about the general public.

695
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: They know the.

696
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 4: Difference between like Steve Gadd who was a great drummer,

697
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 4: and Bernard Purdy. You can tell just like we're bass

698
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 4: players and I bow a musicians. But a lot of

699
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 4: the people who are not musicians, they cond say, let's

700
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 4: you okay.

701
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: So let's talk about that, all right, I'm gonna get

702
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: to the Beatles ghosting story. What session have you What

703
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: sessions have you done that you had to go somebody?

704
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 4: I had to kill somebody?

705
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 3: No, no, no ghost I've heard sessions of like well

706
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 3: known bands.

707
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: Then what's the basement? Like, Okay, let's get out of

708
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 1: out coming here and sweeten it up for real.

709
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 5: But it's not even about using the word ghosting.

710
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 3: We fix okay, okay, so give me some fixing stories

711
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 3: like who have you fixed that you weren't credited for it?

712
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 3: But that's you.

713
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 5: Well, for me, there's about two thousand at least, okay,

714
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 5: there's about two thousand. I got paid. Can we bet

715
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 5: you can talk about it? But what it is for me,

716
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 5: it's a dead issue. That issue has hurt me so badly.

717
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 5: It as Yeah, see I've fixed twenty one tracks.

718
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 3: Okay, that's it. There was nothing that she as a musician,

719
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 3: I get it. All the time. I do it all

720
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 3: the times people, But I.

721
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 5: Was doing what I was doing at that particular time,

722
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 5: is that I was doing the group from France, all

723
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 5: these different countries. They were bringing the music over to

724
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 5: fix music and to make music because it was the

725
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 5: way things were done. The record labels would not pay,

726
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 5: would not that none of these groups would have gotten

727
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 5: signed if studio musicians were not.

728
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that's what.

729
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: Okay, So for our listeners out there, they're a little

730
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: lost basically, uh you know, okay, well as you as

731
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: we discussed in the Philip Bailey Earth, Wine and Fire episode,

732
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: we made some discoveries that yes, you know, occasionally Maurice

733
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: White would use a core of a few musicians that

734
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: weren't the the central members of Earth were in Fire

735
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: either their touring or even the Beach Boys like Brian

736
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: Wilson pretty much made bad sounds with.

737
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:43,959
Speaker 3: The Wrecking Crew.

738
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: Yes, while the people that we know as the Beach

739
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: Boys went and tour. But it doesn't make it any

740
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 1: less of a fraud or anything.

741
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 3: It's just you gotta it.

742
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 1: Was the way of the world, yes, exactly, and many

743
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: many non musicians don't know that's the modus operandi, you know.

744
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 5: And that is what all the record companies, all of them,

745
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 5: they all said the same thing. I'm not gonna spend

746
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 5: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars on somebody that we

747
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 5: don't know your boys, we like your boys, but you

748
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 5: gotta use studio musicians because what it is bam bam bam,

749
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 5: they knocked the songs out.

750
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 4: Also true for drummers. I've experiences to the drummer has

751
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 4: to hit the snare at the same place every time ansistently.

752
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 4: But now on the road you don't have to because

753
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 4: sound equipment will make it sound okay. But you got

754
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 4: to use the studio drummer whose use he has the

755
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 4: experience there in the same place, or else you're going

756
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 4: to have a million dollars worth of remixed money. But

757
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 4: you don't have the same way with bass players are good.

758
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 4: I know I'm a good bass player. However, I think

759
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 4: there are a lot of bass players that play better

760
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 4: than me, but they're road based players. When I sit

761
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 4: down to play, when I've overdubbed a lot of other

762
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 4: bass players, mainly because what they played was okay, It's

763
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 4: just that it was not as audible as it should

764
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 4: be tone and tone wise, whereas like I've been I

765
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 4: play a certain way in the studio to make a note,

766
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 4: a particular kind of way.

767
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 3: Did you okay?

768
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: So was the preference for you to be a road

769
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: drummer or a studio musician? Like or is the grass

770
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: greener on the other side, Like you're in the studio,

771
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: like damn, I wish we were in Europe and you're

772
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: on the road, and it's like, ah, I miss New

773
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: York sessions, Like what's the.

774
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 5: No being able to play? And whether you on the

775
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 5: road or in the studio, that is the best news.

776
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 3: In the world.

777
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 5: You're working and your name is going to be out there.

778
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 4: Okay.

779
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 5: It took the record labels maybe forty years before they

780
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 5: put studio musicians name on the record. When they found

781
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 5: out that they can guarantee ten percent more profit and

782
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 5: not have to do anything. They didn't give us anything

783
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 5: by putting our names on. It gave us a little

784
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 5: bit of something that kept us.

785
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 4: Like who you know today knows has today? And I agree,

786
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 4: I probably have said the same thing working it's important,

787
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 4: baby shoes the bank and I'm missing stuffing al and

788
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 4: helped me out here, you know, they are very important

789
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 4: for baby shoes and the bank. Right, Okay, you know,

790
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 4: so you have to work for your car. Note, I see,

791
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 4: so you have to you have to make money. You

792
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 4: have to work. So working in live in Europe doing

793
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 4: a session to me is the same thing.

794
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 3: Are there?

795
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: Could you tell me anything that you guys remember about

796
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 1: the particular Amazing Grace project, how it was presented, and

797
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: what the preparations that went into it were.

798
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 5: Well, I'm sorry that, you know, like world would never

799
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 5: be able to hear the rehearsal.

800
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 4: That's what I've talked about with somebody today. The rehearsals

801
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 4: was the real deal, for real. And when you listen

802
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 4: to the recording, the sound is not bad. The sound

803
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 4: is good.

804
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 5: It's good.

805
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 4: But they should have recorded that album in James Cleveland's

806
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 4: church because we were there all week and we got

807
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 4: used to it.

808
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: You know, so we were you rehearsing James Cleveland's church

809
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: and then relocated to Okay, Okay.

810
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 5: But you know, I've been talking about it. I've said

811
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 5: it for years. If people could have seen seen what

812
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 5: happened in the rehearsals. Besides her singing, she preached, she

813
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 5: actually preached.

814
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 4: Really oh Oh my, Alan, were you there doing the rehearsals?

815
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 4: A well, you only seven, but you went in the studio.

816
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 3: I saw you in the studio, so you were you

817
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 3: were seven years old watching this.

818
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 4: He wasn't there.

819
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

820
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: I the project first came to my attension and I

821
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: think two thousand and three, and I saw just maybe

822
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: a four minute mark of it, and I was like,

823
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: wait a minute, is that the rolling Stone sitting in

824
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:28,919
Speaker 1: the deacons pew?

825
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 3: Like? How how major was this?

826
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: Like again, I just thought it was a live album

827
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: and that's.

828
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 5: Supposed to be. He was there on the last day.

829
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 3: And Paulack just happened to have cameras running and.

830
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 4: Cameras all week, cameras rehearsal all week.

831
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 5: Really, and you had other folks that are now superstars

832
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 5: that were there early, right, but you don't see them.

833
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 1: Are there any other projects that you guys have done

834
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 1: that's like sitting in the can somewhere, like you're any

835
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: festivals that could be?

836
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 4: It could be. We're not privy. We're not privy.

837
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 5: To I'm privy to one, okay, and that was on

838
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 5: Bang Records.

839
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 3: Okay, another Bang label, well.

840
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 5: The Bang label of the artists I made their records.

841
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: Don't tell me you're on bricks.

842
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 4: Mhm, why listen to it? That's all you happen on

843
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 4: druma just listen to it?

844
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 3: Yes, all right? So uh Brick.

845
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: Our our listenership should know. The lead singer Brick is

846
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: the father of Sleepy Brown, who's made a lot of

847
00:49:51,680 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 1: outcast classics in Atlanta. They're a unit from Atlanta and uh.

848
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 3: They had a major hit. Uh.

849
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: They wrote a song about their amalgamation of disco and

850
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: jazz called Dazz and it was.

851
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 3: It was a notable hit.

852
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 4: You know, we were talking earlier about groove. I think

853
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 4: the disco era proved the point that that that Bernard

854
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 4: was making to beat the field. People want to dance.

855
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 3: How did you feel about four in the Floor. I

856
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: feel a certain way.

857
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: About it, or yeah, I didn't like it really because

858
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: the women got in your way.

859
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 4: Only in country music now, being in New York playing

860
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 4: country music is progressive country music now I see with

861
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 4: Lynn Novy, pure country from the West, from the from

862
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,919
Speaker 4: from the mountains of West Virginia, except that we got

863
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 4: a chance to put a little bit of this all

864
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 4: this country violin fiddle is everything like that. It's shipt

865
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 4: that underneath it. It was progressive and so you could do

866
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 4: something other than four on the floor. Now, I've been

867
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 4: in Dallas, Texas for the last thirty five years, and

868
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 4: I had to learn how to deal with the four

869
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 4: and the four because the baby's shoes and the bank,

870
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 4: you know, as far as playing with the with the

871
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 4: downbeat of the drummer and also following the left hand

872
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 4: of a piano that's traditional country. I did it because

873
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 4: I had never done it before, and I came out

874
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 4: of New York not doing that right. In New York,

875
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 4: they didn't do that. So Florida four doesn't bother me anymore,

876
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 4: especially when I get to all the babies are grown now.

877
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,479
Speaker 4: No more baby shoes, right, you know, but well grand

878
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 4: babies maybe, yeah, well yeah, yep, but daddy taking care

879
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 4: of grand baby.

880
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 3: You know.

881
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 4: You had mentioned memorable things from Amazing Grace. I'm going

882
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 4: to say this, I'm probably going too far.

883
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 3: Nope, not far enough.

884
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 4: But I've done at least fifteen interviews since she died, okay,

885
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 4: and I'm always compelled. And I talked to her either

886
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 4: at least once a year, okay, and it was always short.

887
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 4: And one thing that I remember about that whole thing's

888
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 4: number one. King Curtis had put together a band of gentlemen. Okay,

889
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 4: we wanted lucy lucy, average musicians. But when we got

890
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 4: to California, James Cleveland went out of his way a

891
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 4: couple of times to remind us that we were in

892
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 4: church and about the women and blind balah blah, and

893
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,439
Speaker 4: I remember good, I remember somebody told him to back

894
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 4: off because this was a different kind of band, right.

895
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 4: That bothered me. I am a gentleman, and he also too.

896
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 4: When it came to rehearsing, I felt that the whole

897
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 4: deal was more about James Cleveland and Aretha. I mean

898
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 4: I saw it, I felt it. I felt that it

899
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 4: was all about him all during the week was the pain,

900
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 4: but and how he was doing things. If you look

901
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 4: at the film, although I haven't seen the latest film,

902
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 4: but I do know, there's a whole lot of hesitation

903
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 4: deciding what to do. After each song, He's going over

904
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 4: and talking to what was his name? The Uh he's

905
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 4: in a wheelchair now, Aliceander, okay, talking and Reth just

906
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 4: sitting there.

907
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 3: You know.

908
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 4: It's like a service, you know.

909
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 3: Uh.

910
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 4: And that there was too much about.

911
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 3: Him that didn't micromanaging.

912
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, no managing.

913
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 3: Okay.

914
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 4: Now, the only thing that's my saving grace was this,

915
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,800
Speaker 4: I just moved to La okay, and I was engaged

916
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 4: to be married okay. And she also thought it was

917
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 4: a big deal, uh to uh to come to church,

918
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 4: you know, and to look at you know, what was

919
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 4: going on, because the Retha was a big deal. But

920
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 4: during the whole thing, people being too protective over the past.

921
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 4: I mean I parked somewhere one time in front of

922
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 4: the church. Guy came and said, my pastor parks here.

923
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 4: That's why I say, well, they should be a sign,

924
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 4: you know, something like that. I mean, I wasn't rude

925
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 4: or anything like that, but there's a whole lot of

926
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 4: a whole lot of California garchy New York kind of

927
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 4: things that you know, the two coasts have always had

928
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 4: a little different kind of thing going on. But saving

929
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 4: grades for me was playing those songs over and over

930
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 4: and over. It wasn't really necessary. As a matter of fact,

931
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,800
Speaker 4: on the second day of rehearsal, they could have recorded

932
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 4: the album really, because when it comes.

933
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 3: To how many days of rehearsal, worthy.

934
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 5: Will fur four days of rehearsal and the three days

935
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 5: of recording.

936
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: And you guys were that intense with those songs or

937
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 1: was it just like run through?

938
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 4: And we all knew those we knew what we were

939
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 4: supposed to do. Every song on that album is from

940
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 4: the Gospel Pearl Songbook.

941
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 5: And I played gospel before I played anything else in life,

942
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 5: So I didn't have a problem playing gospel, and I

943
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 5: didn't have a problem playing for the last forty to

944
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 5: fifty years because I still go and I played with

945
00:54:59,280 --> 00:54:59,959
Speaker 5: gospel group.

946
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:05,439
Speaker 1: So on the other side of that coin, I would

947
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: imagine the answer would be steely Dan. But okay, well,

948
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: pretty much the world knows how hard or how rigid

949
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: or anal retentive or whatever difficult word you want to

950
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: put put in that description. But besides the Steely Dan sessions,

951
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 1: what client was also quasi? Its tightly wound as far

952
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: as rigorous rehearsals, micromanaging, a session that would make you

953
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 1: want to roll your eyes, like, okay.

954
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 4: That happens.

955
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: Well, just give me an example. It's hard, but you

956
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 1: played on so many like these brothers us you.

957
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 4: Forget those people.

958
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 5: Bert Dicoto, What Burt wasn't that.

959
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,399
Speaker 3: His sessions though? What were his sessions that I would know.

960
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 4: Very told was like down the Hathaway. They arranged hundreds

961
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 4: of New York artists that were recording here. It's hard

962
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 4: Hard one song I found it.

963
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 5: One of the songs is uh that the three Degrees,

964
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 5: which one the biggest had that would be like maybe maybe.

965
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:31,240
Speaker 3: To the hip hop generation.

966
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: Maybe means everything to us because it's been chopped and

967
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: sampled and so like three degrees version of maybe, but

968
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: before they went to Philly International, that means something to

969
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 1: my my generation.

970
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 3: So well, you make no but it's new are it's

971
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 3: just super new? But so it's not new.

972
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 5: It's not new because that's what we had to do.

973
00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 4: And it's new for you.

974
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 1: Well it's okay, not new for me per se because

975
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 1: I grew up with that record. Let me give an example.

976
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: So in my world, uh, there's shall we say, a

977
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: guru and his name is James Yancey aka j Dilla,

978
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: who was a producer from Detroit who basically made us

979
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: just listen to.

980
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 3: Older records in a new way.

981
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: So this is an example of him taking the three

982
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: degrees maybe and what he calls flipping it, which he

983
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 1: will take a song sort of chop the parts and

984
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: redo them.

985
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 3: So heard voice fine, saying.

986
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 5: I just fell all apart inside because I hadn't heard

987
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 5: that voice in such a long time. I turned around.

988
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 3: So Diyl is the kind of guy.

989
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: He'll use a record and he's so inspirational. Now, what

990
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: makes this particular project notable was that he passed away

991
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: from lupus.

992
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: So he's making this it's kind of his.

993
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: He's making this record in the hospital, kind of in

994
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: the last months of his life, so he wasn't even

995
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 1: able to talk or be mobile, but his brain was

996
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: still able to create miracles. So any record that he

997
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: ever uses will then make cats like me turn around

998
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: and pay top dollar for those old records, read the credits,

999
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: and then study those credits, and then buy all those

1000
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: records and then buy all those records.

1001
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 3: And so that's what I mean about him being a guru.

1002
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: But is this weird that what might be an eye

1003
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: roll session for you at that time we play, you know,

1004
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: for someone in my generation, that could be everything. Like

1005
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: I didn't know that you played drums on Synthetic Substitution

1006
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: by Herb Bruney, And I'm certain that you're tired of

1007
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: hip hop historians like, oh my god, you played on

1008
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: synthetic substitute, like I'm sure that's a footnote in your life, Like,

1009
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 1: oh that thing, Like I did that in two seconds.

1010
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 5: But that was the way things were. You guys wanted

1011
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 5: something different, so you would actually take and try to

1012
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 5: turn records completely all the way around.

1013
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's just so weird that something that could

1014
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: be a footnote in your life could be an anchor.

1015
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 3: Like thirty years down the line, Like how do you

1016
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 3: feel feel about that?

1017
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's great, but we don't think

1018
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:51,959
Speaker 4: of it that way.

1019
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 3: If you.

1020
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: Thought your work on Donald Bird's records are like something

1021
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: like think Twice or or or I'm assuming like Harlem

1022
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: River Drive or or fancy dances like all that Bobby

1023
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: Humphrey stuff, especially now that we have access to the

1024
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: stems and can individualize attracts and just listen, like it's

1025
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: Pete Rock would die right now if he knew I

1026
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: was talking to you like you you between between uh

1027
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 1: between uh.

1028
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 3: The Ohio players, uh turban on I said, uh.

1029
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: Marshall Jones between Marshall Jones and you like you guys

1030
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: birthed Pete Rock's whole life, which.

1031
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 3: In turn he birthed us. You know, what I mean,

1032
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,520
Speaker 3: and it just it just goes in circles.

1033
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 4: So you guys are in this in this generation. Uh,

1034
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 4: you know, you have so much technology that you can

1035
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 4: do these kinds of things. We couldn't do that. And

1036
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 4: plus you mentioned Donald are that.

1037
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 3: You are technology like you.

1038
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 4: Mentioned Donald Burn and Bobby Humphy you see once and

1039
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 4: we talked about this early. Once you come into favoritism

1040
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 4: with one producer, everything they do, you're they call you

1041
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 4: everything that Maazelles did. I was a basic player doing

1042
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 4: a certain span of time. Freddy Parent and and and

1043
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 4: and and and and the Isaiels.

1044
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 3: What is Freddy Parent Like?

1045
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 1: I never get to hear stories about him as a producer.

1046
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 4: What was He's one of those kind of people that's

1047
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 4: sort of kind of uh, He's able to be in

1048
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 4: a room and you don't know he's there. I don't

1049
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 4: remember much about Freddy other than he was very religious.

1050
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 3: Really yeah, okay, okay.

1051
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 4: But once you start working with them, they keep everything

1052
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:51,439
Speaker 4: they do. They got their thing. They call the same

1053
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 4: people over and over and over and over and over again.

1054
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 3: Okay.

1055
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 4: You know, I was listening to a a radio program

1056
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 4: where Donald Bird's band of the original band of the Blackbirds,

1057
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 4: The Blackbirds. They were talking and I kind of feel

1058
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 4: sorry for a lot of these guys because I did

1059
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,919
Speaker 4: three records with Donald Bird. But you listen, but listen,

1060
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 4: you listen to these guys and everything's made about that

1061
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 4: they were the original band, and now they're talking. Of

1062
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 4: course they feel freedom. Everybody has an ego. And so

1063
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,600
Speaker 4: I'm in there with my with my son in law

1064
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 4: and and and we're talking about you know, they said, well,

1065
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 4: do you know these guys that do not having a

1066
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 4: clue on who they are other than that they had

1067
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 4: to have been a road band for Donald Bird, but

1068
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 4: they did not make those records.

1069
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 1: I was going to say, that has to be you

1070
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: on the Blackbird records too, So that's you in Rock

1071
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: Creek Park and walking rhythm and and and.

1072
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 4: The music business is very very good. Bobby Humphrey is

1073
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 4: not a great musician, but her records sold a lot,

1074
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 4: a lot because of the rhythm session they Jerry Peters,

1075
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 4: Harvey Mason made, David T. Walker. We we also work

1076
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 4: as a group. Absolutely, are you on love His uh

1077
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 4: the album with the Love Vibrations?

1078
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 3: Yes?

1079
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 4: No, oh okay, but I'm glad you don't want to

1080
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 4: die right now. You know you you will have a

1081
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 4: you gotta you know a lot about sponge Man David T. Walker. Ye,

1082
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 4: Love Vibrations. I was here in New York. I just

1083
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 4: got the New York when that record came out. Okay, okay,

1084
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 4: And David was here with the with the band called

1085
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 4: the Kinfolk. Yes, okay, and Love Vibrations is one of

1086
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 4: my When I heard that record, almost died really because

1087
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 4: of the feel and the sound, not so much of

1088
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 4: what the rhythm was, although I'm a rhythm god. But nobody, nobody,

1089
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 4: no guitar player sounds like David Walker. He's special. You're right,

1090
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 4: none you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1091
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 1: So I assume with Freddie Pearron, Uh, can I also

1092
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 1: assume that the Silvers and the Jackson five are also

1093
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: under your.

1094
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 4: No, I didn't play with the Silvers. Jerry Peters Okay.

1095
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 4: Johnson produced the Silvers and that was a little bit

1096
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 4: before my time in Hall. For the Jackson five or

1097
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 4: the Jackson five.

1098
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 5: The Jackson five was the Jackson five. It wasn't, uh,

1099
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 5: because I'm the one that also made the records for

1100
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 5: the Jackson five at the beginning, which ones the very beginning,

1101
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 5: the first one, the one that was written by the

1102
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 5: the Corporation. No, well he was on TV. He had

1103
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 5: his big job on TV. You talk about a producer, No,

1104
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 5: he wasn't. He was the actual writer of.

1105
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: The song Clifton Clifton, Davis Clifton, but never can save Goodbye?

1106
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 3: Yes, that's you. What songs are you on?

1107
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 4: Uh that I don't don't think of down dancing machine

1108
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 4: ship that's you. And I'm sorry, Bill, I know, I

1109
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 4: know there's a nightmare for you. Very very interesting too

1110
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 4: about when you get to if it's okay, tell it.

1111
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 4: I just come from New York, yes, and I was

1112
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 4: living in Hollywood.

1113
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

1114
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 4: Now, if you come from New York, you have a

1115
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 4: certain New York attitude, especially if you're making money.

1116
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 3: That your hipper.

1117
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 4: You know, not that you're hip, but you just don't

1118
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 4: have to put up with you don't have to put

1119
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 4: it with bs right and you and you. The New

1120
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 4: York attitude is to tell you when it's full of ship,

1121
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 4: oh you know, it's not cool. The Steve approves and

1122
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 4: number one Motown had a Ben Bart. I don't mind

1123
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 4: talking about him because everybody hated him. I did, and

1124
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 4: so now everybody knows he was not a likable god.

1125
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 4: And I I came up around, not came up around.

1126
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 4: But I knew Smoky Robinson, I knew the devastating affair.

1127
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 4: I knew. I knew a lot of these these people

1128
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 4: because they're from my neck of the woods. Time from Ohio.

1129
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 4: And every nine and then I would be on tour

1130
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,200
Speaker 4: with one band from Ohio, this with somebody from Detroit

1131
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 4: or from Chicago's anyway, Smokey or somebody else would call.

1132
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,560
Speaker 4: They had two studios, Sunset and Sunrise, and so they

1133
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 4: would call for me because they number one personally.

1134
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 3: They knew me.

1135
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 4: And plus I did have a little bit of a

1136
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 4: rip and Ben sometimes would take the liberty of putting

1137
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 4: you over here in this studio, putting you over here,

1138
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 4: and I had to straighten him out real quick. And

1139
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 4: I didn't mind doing it because I was fresh out

1140
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 4: of New York. I said, I he hired me, I

1141
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:57,479
Speaker 4: know him, So I'm not going to Sunset. I'm going

1142
01:06:58,200 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 4: So that was one thing I'm getting away from the

1143
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 4: Jackson five.

1144
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 3: Thing I got you.

1145
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 4: The producer was a pain in the button. He's the

1146
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 4: kind of producer where when you're going to do a session,

1147
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,400
Speaker 4: he's got four or five people in the in the

1148
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 4: control room. His cousin, his old lady is the Bline Blade,

1149
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,959
Speaker 4: the blind Blah. Drugs were very very prominent at that time.

1150
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 4: And when we did a dancing Machine perfect I mean perfect,

1151
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 4: James Gotson, I mean we we it was perfect. Unlike

1152
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 4: the second tape. Yes, but Motown will keep you there

1153
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 4: for forty.

1154
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 1: Takes just to get their money's worth it, just to get.

1155
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 4: In the band. The guy who wrote the song with

1156
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,480
Speaker 4: me producing, and we got a click track, but he's

1157
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 4: breaking the sweat directing us five five music anyway recorded it.

1158
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: So back then even use click tracks. Huh back then

1159
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: click tracks were still used.

1160
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely okay, absolutely, So if you know how to play

1161
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 4: with a click track, you don't have that.

1162
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 3: Problem, right okay.

1163
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 4: And it's very very hard for people to play, especially drummer,

1164
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 4: the every jump to play with the click track. I've

1165
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 4: experienced that in Texas, I mean a whole lot. Now,

1166
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 4: so we record the song. I wanted the producers dead now,

1167
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 4: but his name is Hal Davis, Hal Davis, Yes, So

1168
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 4: he decides, he decides that they don't want to hear

1169
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 4: the bass, they don't want to hit the bass until

1170
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:38,679
Speaker 4: until maybe the third verse. What ok that was his problem.

1171
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:44,639
Speaker 4: So now the engineer and James Carmichael wrote the arrangement. Arrangement.

1172
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 4: James Carmichael told him. The engineer told him, James Gatton

1173
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 4: told him, and I told him, all you got to

1174
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 4: do is pull the faded down and then bring it

1175
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,599
Speaker 4: back up. But no, he's producing, he's his noses running,

1176
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 4: and he's uh and so he don't want me to play,

1177
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,720
Speaker 4: and it's ridiculous. No town, I thought was very ridiculous.

1178
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 4: I can talk about that a lot, right, Okay, However,

1179
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,640
Speaker 4: so like okay, get a session. About two or three

1180
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 4: weeks later, ben Bart calls me. He wants me to

1181
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 4: come back and do an overdub, and I ignore him.

1182
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 4: I didn't need a motown client, right, I didn't need

1183
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 4: a more town. I was from Quincy all the way

1184
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 4: down to his father, uh to a lot of people.

1185
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,719
Speaker 4: I was taking care of business, my wife, the baby,

1186
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 4: the bank was happy with my butt. So I didn't

1187
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 4: need more towns, especially if it's giving me some kind

1188
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 4: of And there are a lot of things I'm not

1189
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 4: saying that's in that I feel, So I don't I

1190
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 4: don't return to call uh to to your girl to

1191
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 4: ben buryed, don't return. I don't want to work front.

1192
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 4: Don't have to put it that way.

1193
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 3: I feel, you have to feel.

1194
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 4: And so time goes by. So how David calls me?

1195
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,720
Speaker 4: Oh number one? Ben Bart had had a happy of

1196
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 4: calling you directly on your line, directly to you. It

1197
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,680
Speaker 4: ain't supposed to happen that way. You ca all the

1198
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 4: answering service, the answer service calls you. So anyway, uh

1199
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 4: uh he been Burrett. He calls me for for for uh.

1200
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 4: He calls me to come back. I have to come

1201
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 4: back and fix something. Anyway.

1202
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 3: I didn't.

1203
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 4: I didn't call him back right now. I lived in

1204
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 4: Hollywood on Vermont in the in the Oakwood Garden apartments.

1205
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 4: That was huge, all musicians stage, you know, it was

1206
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 4: just huge. And to get to my apartment you had

1207
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,360
Speaker 4: to know where my apartment was, you know. I came

1208
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 4: home one day and how David's cart was in my

1209
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 4: door and he said, please give me a call. We

1210
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 4: need you to come and fix something.

1211
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

1212
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 4: So when somebody went that far, I said, well, I'll

1213
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 4: give him a call. And so he said he made

1214
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 4: a mistake that I had to come there. They had

1215
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 4: tried Wilton Felder. They had tried Tom Scott's I can't

1216
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 4: think of his name, the bass player. They had tried

1217
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 4: two or three bass players to put a baseline on

1218
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 4: the front of that song. Wilton Felder said, what you

1219
01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 4: need to go do is go back and get the

1220
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 4: same guy because they didn't have the same kind of feel. Yes,

1221
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 4: and so they try to do it without me because

1222
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 4: Ben Barry probably didn't care much about me because I

1223
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 4: would call him down when he called me down, you know,

1224
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 4: and things like that. So like finally I went and

1225
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 4: went ahead and did it. But the style is kind

1226
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 4: of I had no problem just playing the same thing.

1227
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you now, it's it's weird because even

1228
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: the Jacksons are touring now, their bass players nailed every

1229
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 1: note of that song, which.

1230
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 3: Is not is not It's not usual at all.

1231
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: Like I feel as though the star of Dancing Machine

1232
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 1: is the bass work on It's just unusual. And how

1233
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 1: that almost they can come to be is some mind

1234
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 1: boggling shit.

1235
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 4: Part of my involvement with Michael Jackson in the film

1236
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 4: Ben but the back star is called it Jermaine. Jermaine

1237
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 4: always tended to play the bass and then he became

1238
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 4: a bass player. He's the bass player. So like he

1239
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 4: learned him and Kenny burt Ah five stair steps yeah

1240
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 4: him and correct yes, yes you are okay, and so so,

1241
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 4: him and Kenny Burg were always very very to me,

1242
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:20,600
Speaker 4: very very I'm trying to find a word, but I

1243
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 4: can't rite now, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah,

1244
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 4: And so Jermaine, I did his first album. That's that's

1245
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 4: me playing based on his first album.

1246
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: On Let's Be Young Tonight and all those Now are

1247
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:34,360
Speaker 1: you playing based on Eruku? Please don't break my heart.

1248
01:12:34,479 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 4: I'm not sure. All I do know is I did

1249
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 4: his first album, right, And I remember asking him, said, Jermaine,

1250
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 4: why don't you He says, I can't play this. I

1251
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 4: will play it. I will be I will play it,

1252
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 4: he said, but right now we're trying to get the

1253
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 4: record done.

1254
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 3: He has a study, right, okay. You know.

1255
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 4: So, like Jermaine basically was the reason that I even

1256
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:56,120
Speaker 4: got involved with Michael. I did two Michael sang on

1257
01:12:56,200 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 4: two songs. One was been Okay and then there was

1258
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 4: another song that he did. But I think my my

1259
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:07,439
Speaker 4: association with the Jackson five different. Jermaine definitely because of Jamaine,

1260
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 4: and I think for the whole thing around. Although you know,

1261
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 4: when your name is kind of shining everybody's face, they

1262
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 4: do want to get what they call the best players,

1263
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 4: who are not always the best players, but the name

1264
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 4: is familiar.

1265
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 3: Right, like all about the name, I see that, you.

1266
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 4: Know, I tell you it's very important, you know, Like

1267
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:26,800
Speaker 4: I've run across the bass players to say, I don't

1268
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 4: come out to the house this is for one hundred fifty

1269
01:13:28,439 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 4: dollars or for one hundred dollars right, right, that's not

1270
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 4: a musician. Okay, you should say I don't come out

1271
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 4: of the house if I'm sick. Oh, I don't come

1272
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 4: out of the house if it's in, And say you

1273
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 4: don't smoke cigarettes, right, And you're going to do a

1274
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:44,800
Speaker 4: bar playing a bar like I stopped smoking quite a

1275
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 4: while ago, and going to playing the bar is totally

1276
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 4: beneath me, right because of the cigarette smoking. You know, now,

1277
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 4: I know how you do? Know?

1278
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:00,639
Speaker 1: So speaking of Motown, you also have you how many

1279
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: Motown sessions have you done?

1280
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:04,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1281
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 5: Probably four or five hundred?

1282
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, well you got me.

1283
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 3: You're also and I once you correct.

1284
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 5: The thing is is that everybody thinks that it was

1285
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 5: all done in Detroit. Half of those things we did

1286
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:20,719
Speaker 5: here in New York.

1287
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 3: Really, you know what?

1288
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 4: Speaking of that here in New York, a lot of

1289
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 4: the Motown artists when they were on tour, when they

1290
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 4: come to New York, Me, Bernard and Eric, we'll do

1291
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 4: a lot of Sunday demos for the Temptations for a

1292
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 4: lot of groups coming out of Detroit when they came

1293
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 4: this way. That's because of the name value that we had,

1294
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 4: me him in Eric, So a lot of times we

1295
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 4: would do little demo sessions. Okay with withste are traveling.

1296
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 5: You remember the Old Jays.

1297
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, talk to me.

1298
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:58,759
Speaker 4: The Old Jays are my homeboys.

1299
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 3: By the way, Oh Cleveland, the Cleveland Clinton accent.

1300
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 5: Well, I had six months out of a year on

1301
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 5: Saturdays when they were not working, yes, and trying to

1302
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 5: do things, they'd be here making their records.

1303
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:19,639
Speaker 3: Wow.

1304
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 4: And a lot of people don't know that. It's gonna

1305
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 4: blow a lot of minds. Yes, when you look at

1306
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 4: Detroit now, I've been to both studios or the one

1307
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 4: studio that's now closed, but to the regular studio, I've

1308
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 4: been there. Get ready to go there again in June

1309
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,360
Speaker 4: for the base day. But a lot of people don't

1310
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:42,639
Speaker 4: understand when you read a credit, or when you read

1311
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 4: someone's interview, or when you with someone's biography, you have

1312
01:15:47,240 --> 01:15:50,719
Speaker 4: to be very careful on what you believe, Okay, because

1313
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 4: so many things, like we're just talking about, I would

1314
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,720
Speaker 4: not be surprised if a lot of the demos that

1315
01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 4: we made, well, well, I'm not surprised a lot of

1316
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:05,000
Speaker 4: demers we made for Detroit artists coming here. Number one,

1317
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 4: we're not in Detroit. Detroit used the same people all

1318
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 4: the time, and they lived in Detroit. Yes, when you

1319
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 4: come to New York, you got at least ten bass

1320
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 4: players that are different, ten drummers that are different. Well,

1321
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 4: I never, I didn't never really care for I shouldn't

1322
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:25,200
Speaker 4: say it that way, but I can't find the right words.

1323
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 4: But the Motown rhythm section was very, very basic. The

1324
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 4: only body that was different was Jameson. That's why those

1325
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:37,440
Speaker 4: records are so based ominous, if that's if there's a word,

1326
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 4: you know.

1327
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 3: But a lot of.

1328
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 4: Things that we did here in New York helped everybody

1329
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 4: go back home and better their record or maybe to

1330
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 4: add to it, Okay, that kind of thing, you know.

1331
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 4: Like so like we definitely like we look at the

1332
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 4: record crew. Somebody had the money, the ego from those musicians.

1333
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 4: They're not the only musicians in LA. I've gotten all

1334
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 4: kinds of not all kinds, I mean, let me stop.

1335
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 4: I've gone to these three people that have called me

1336
01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:08,640
Speaker 4: or emailed me asking me to be a part of

1337
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 4: doing a New York rhythm section thing similar similar to me,

1338
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 4: you don't need my Okay, you don't need to do it,

1339
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:20,960
Speaker 4: and you don't need it. I lived in California for

1340
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:28,880
Speaker 4: twelve years. California people have huge egos, right because it's Hollywood, right,

1341
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 4: and so they can do something like that. In New York.

1342
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,479
Speaker 4: We don't care. We didn't care. We just didn't care.

1343
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:35,800
Speaker 4: There was a time that I can listen to a

1344
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 4: record and I can tell you who the bass player was.

1345
01:17:39,120 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 4: I can't do that anymore.

1346
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:40,920
Speaker 3: Can't do that now.

1347
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's different now because it's just the machine.

1348
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 3: Some cats.

1349
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I feel Pino Palladino is probably

1350
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 1: the one cat who he holds you and Jamison in

1351
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 1: high regards and still to this day on his work

1352
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 1: with D'Angelo.

1353
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 3: Projects that he does.

1354
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,919
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he still has the same precision

1355
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:10,640
Speaker 1: based from ninety five Goo jillion years ago. That's in

1356
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: your hands right now, like he's definitely keeping the torch alive. Wait,

1357
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: I have just a few more questions. I know we

1358
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 1: got to wrap up soon, but I gotta know. So

1359
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 1: your work with Leon Ware, I'm starting to realize that

1360
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,919
Speaker 1: it's it's once a producer uses you guys and continues

1361
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:32,479
Speaker 1: to use.

1362
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 3: Have you ever worked with Leon Ware before? Brother Party?

1363
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 1: I gotta say that your work on his record for

1364
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:46,559
Speaker 1: many representding for Could you describe any of those, like

1365
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,639
Speaker 1: the I Want You sessions or any of those?

1366
01:18:49,360 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 4: Well, everything I Want You. James Gaston describes it as

1367
01:18:56,240 --> 01:19:00,679
Speaker 4: a jam and that there were no notes written. Okay,

1368
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 4: all Carmichael did was just put down court changes and

1369
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 4: maybe every now and then an ensemble lick or something

1370
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 4: like that. What did you just.

1371
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:13,680
Speaker 3: Ask me about? No, no, about the I Want You sessions?

1372
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 4: And so when it comes I want you one basic thing?

1373
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:18,880
Speaker 4: Now that ain't a marking your record?

1374
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:21,599
Speaker 3: Okay, it was a Leon record.

1375
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Leon always used the same people me, Sonny

1376
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 4: Burke or Clams McDonald, James Gotson and David T. Walker

1377
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 4: and Leon. When he died, he was worth in the

1378
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:38,560
Speaker 4: millions because of his songwriting. He wrote a couple of

1379
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 4: things that Quincy did I Want I Want You. The

1380
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 4: only drag about I Want You was that it was

1381
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:49,520
Speaker 4: done in Motown because Leon was signed to Motown.

1382
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 3: Okay, I feel you.

1383
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 4: You know, going over there was always when I say

1384
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,000
Speaker 4: it's a drag and I say it's a dragon.

1385
01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:03,200
Speaker 3: Sometimes business is Jenki. You earned the right, You earn

1386
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 3: the right.

1387
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,640
Speaker 4: But I have never complained I feel you because I

1388
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 4: like I said, just like I said, my car, note,

1389
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 4: my house, note, my baby's shoes, and a wife was satisfied.

1390
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 3: Hey, at the end of the day, man we ket

1391
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 3: food on the table, the four.

1392
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 5: When you start, and the continuation of the thing of Motown.

1393
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:32,040
Speaker 5: The person that was so underrated Mel Brown.

1394
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:36,840
Speaker 1: Describe Mel Brown, describe Mel Brown for me for those

1395
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:37,400
Speaker 1: that don't know.

1396
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 5: Well, he was there and he was covering for Papa

1397
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 5: mm hmm. Because half the time he was out of it,

1398
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:57,520
Speaker 5: but he played on every act They used to get him,

1399
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 5: put him out of the road on the road they didn't.

1400
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:05,600
Speaker 5: They didn't want him to stay in Detroit, so the Supremes,

1401
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 5: it didn't matter, the temptations, whoever he was out with.

1402
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 5: He could get home and then one day, maybe two days,

1403
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 5: and they get him out because there was friction inside

1404
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,120
Speaker 5: with all the different musicians.

1405
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 4: The greatest Motown producer for me is Willy Hutch really

1406
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:34,520
Speaker 4: really will He was phenomen not because he's from Dallas,

1407
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 4: but he was out work with Willie and he was

1408
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:38,520
Speaker 4: a good producer.

1409
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:43,599
Speaker 3: Okay, well, you know, so you're playing on the macn Okay,

1410
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 3: I'm sad.

1411
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 5: To ask Simpson asked for than Simpson. You know, it's

1412
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 5: same thing. But see they were from here, from New

1413
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 5: York and they were heavy duty songwriters, just like Smooky

1414
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 5: Promising or the brothers, the Three Brothers.

1415
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 1: Holland you know what, wait before I wrap this time,

1416
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 1: I got to ask that the world doesn't know about.

1417
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 3: How did you get this project?

1418
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 1: This movie Project Lee that came out in nineteen seventy three.

1419
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 3: You're drumming on it. It's like.

1420
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:25,679
Speaker 1: It's you on a stage with a dancing woman. It's

1421
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:30,840
Speaker 1: it's it's uh. It just came on YouTube, like I'll say,

1422
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 1: like a couple of years ago.

1423
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 3: But do you know this project? How did that come

1424
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 3: to be?

1425
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 5: It was the first time, okay, the very first time

1426
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:44,439
Speaker 5: that I got credit. Oh, okay, okay, and it was

1427
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 5: the first black X rated movie.

1428
01:22:47,760 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 6: Oh okay, okay, I remember that movie.

1429
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:03,640
Speaker 3: So okay, when all is said and done.

1430
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: For both of you, what do you feel like your

1431
01:23:07,920 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 1: top three definitive works are as far as.

1432
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,519
Speaker 3: Can you even do that? Like your three?

1433
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 1: What three songs would you save, like the three songs

1434
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: that define for both of you?

1435
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 3: What three songs are they?

1436
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 5: Well? Damn okay, rock steady until you come back to me, yes, okay, and.

1437
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 1: Uh not one of the shuffles, yes, now that I'm

1438
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 1: stilly Dad not uh.

1439
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:53,200
Speaker 5: Oh yeah Dad.

1440
01:23:54,840 --> 01:24:02,520
Speaker 1: Home last okay, okay, all right, So brother Rainy, what

1441
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 1: what are the three that you feel are like?

1442
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 4: Well, my favorite is the Border Song? Okay, I just

1443
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 4: get the goosebumps and sometimes I cry.

1444
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,520
Speaker 3: It has to. It's not recorded anywhere.

1445
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 4: Now the Border Song.

1446
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 1: The Border Song was well, no, no, no, no, I'm talking

1447
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:19,720
Speaker 1: about the live version that didn't.

1448
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 3: Make uh.

1449
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 4: We didn't do that on an amazing grace.

1450
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 5: Okay, no, it wasn't.

1451
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 4: The Border Song. And then also to Home in the

1452
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 4: last also gives me goose bumps. It's something about it.

1453
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 4: I like minor keys anyway, but it gives me, you

1454
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 4: for goose bumps, Okay. Quincy's along Camp Betty is also

1455
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 4: something that I really really enjoy playing. Really actually, when

1456
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:45,760
Speaker 4: you ask me that question, I don't really have it's

1457
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 4: hard to pick out three. It's hard to pick up

1458
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 4: for me.

1459
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 5: He just said the magic words. It's the hardest thing

1460
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 5: in the world. Now. I played safe for the last

1461
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:04,240
Speaker 5: forty five fifty years by talking about a reason.

1462
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 3: But this album right here, and which album is that?

1463
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:17,800
Speaker 5: This is done by an arranger and Gary McFarland, Garry McFarland.

1464
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 3: Gary McFall, Yeah, creative River Dreams and so many other.

1465
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 5: And the point is is that sack.

1466
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 3: Full of dreams, not river dreams. Sorry, suh.

1467
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 5: I was going up on the elevator on forty eighth

1468
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:38,839
Speaker 5: Street to A and R Recording studio, and uh, Grady

1469
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 5: Tate was on the elevator. Was so, we're going upstairs,

1470
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 5: you know, to record. Wow, Grady, I said, where are

1471
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:54,599
Speaker 5: you going? You said, I'm going the same place you're going.

1472
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 5: I said, well, you know sens to me going up there.

1473
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 3: I don't need me.

1474
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:06,880
Speaker 5: I didn't know. He also sang.

1475
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 3: Oh, no one knew, Grady Taste saying yeah.

1476
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:12,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't know. I've been knowing the man for.

1477
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:14,439
Speaker 3: You just coming there to taking your Gruman gig and

1478
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:14,880
Speaker 3: that was it.

1479
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:20,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, hey, I loved him. I loved watching him

1480
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:27,599
Speaker 5: and do things, and and the arranger knew exactly what

1481
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:31,719
Speaker 5: he wanted, and he also knew that I was gonna

1482
01:26:31,720 --> 01:26:35,599
Speaker 5: be the one playing the drums, even the ones where

1483
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:41,240
Speaker 5: he wasn't singing. Man, So we actually did this album

1484
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:44,200
Speaker 5: almost live with the whole band.

1485
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 4: IM talk about one mills of my mind.

1486
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:50,839
Speaker 5: The Windmills was came after us, but this this particular album,

1487
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 5: he was in the process of also doing his record,

1488
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:57,880
Speaker 5: so I did his record right after.

1489
01:26:58,479 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 4: I see so.

1490
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:03,080
Speaker 5: That that they had come from rehearsal together.

1491
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 3: Right, and we go up there.

1492
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 1: This isn't the first time that I heard h a

1493
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 1: weird Grady Tait story where people didn't know that he

1494
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 1: was also a singer.

1495
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 5: Awesome.

1496
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:18,599
Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of my generation us growing

1497
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:23,439
Speaker 1: up and on television, never knew that he was the

1498
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 1: voice on Schoolhouse Rock, like all those little.

1499
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 3: All those cartoons we grew up.

1500
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 1: Gentlemen, I could I could nerd out and ask questions forever,

1501
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 1: but I gotta wrap it up. But I just have

1502
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:42,639
Speaker 1: to say from the bottom of my heart that having

1503
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 1: this conversation with you two is is this is one

1504
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 1: of the greatest.

1505
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:49,639
Speaker 3: This is why I do what I do.

1506
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:54,639
Speaker 1: Like you guys have no idea what your your work

1507
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:57,479
Speaker 1: and your contribution. And this isn't blowing smoke up your ass,

1508
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:01,320
Speaker 1: none of that. Like this, you guys have true are

1509
01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: the architects.

1510
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 3: And the.

1511
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,280
Speaker 1: Gas to a lot of us, not just me as

1512
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 1: a musician, but for a lot of us out there,

1513
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 1: and I truly thank you for it. Once again, Chuck

1514
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 1: Rainey and Brother Bernard party on Quest Love Supreme Special

1515
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:23,360
Speaker 1: Edition on behalf of Fun Tigelow both Bills, Sugar, Steve

1516
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 1: and Laia. This is Questlove signing off of probably one

1517
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 1: of the greatest Quest Love Supremes ever. We will see

1518
01:28:30,160 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 1: it next time on the next go round this Quest

1519
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Speaker 1: Love Supreme only on Pandora.

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Speaker 3: Thank you Hill.

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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:49,720
Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more

1523
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:53,920
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.