Speaker 1: Pushkin. Welcome back to Broken Record and part two of
Speaker 1: our interview with Questlove. I'm Malcolm Gladwow, Rick Rubin and
Speaker 1: I didn't expect to sit down with Questlove as long
Speaker 1: as we did, But after he told us in part
Speaker 1: one about how he wooed DiAngelo into collaborating with him,
Speaker 1: we just had to have him to sit at the
Speaker 1: drums and show us how he did it. And then
Speaker 1: the stories kept flowing, including the best Obama story ever.
Speaker 1: Here's part two of our interview with Questlove. Just a
Speaker 1: quick note here, you can listen to all of the
Speaker 1: music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you
Speaker 1: can find a link to in the show notes for
Speaker 1: licensing reasons. Each time a song is referenced in this episode,
Speaker 1: you'll hear this sound effect. All right, enjoyed the episode?
Speaker 1: You mentioned way back when that you played D'Angelo that
Speaker 1: little bit that lured him in. Can you can you
Speaker 1: play that? We have a drum set over there, you
Speaker 1: can you reproduce that? Sure, I'll give you an example. Okay,
Speaker 1: is there a drum though? Yes? There is? Okay. So,
Speaker 1: so the thing is is that by that point in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, I was very guarded of my kind
Speaker 1: of strict discipline, quantized drumming because I didn't want anyone
Speaker 1: to think of the roots as lesser than a hip
Speaker 1: hop group. So for me, I had spent five years
Speaker 1: to that point being the most disciplined, lifeless drummer, you know,
Speaker 1: Like my version of drumming was just to play the
Speaker 1: most disciplined. No dynamics, no, none of those things. So
Speaker 1: the difference is in seeing DeAngelo and knowing what language
Speaker 1: he spoke. I wanted him to know I spoke that
Speaker 1: language too. Previously I was speaking the language of hip hop,
Speaker 1: which was just like kind of like my version of
Speaker 1: Thelonious Monks talking about atonal like the notes in between
Speaker 1: the notes, and it's like a broken drum machine. Yes,
Speaker 1: And the worst I played, the more excited he got.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing, like to do this, like you
Speaker 1: have to put your ego aside, because every drummer was
Speaker 1: about evil Knievel Like Gospel Chops. That's the thing with drummers.
Speaker 1: If you go to gospel chops dot com, you'll see
Speaker 1: some of the most amazing drum players that would put
Speaker 1: Neil Pert to shame, like that sort of thing. But
Speaker 1: playing with him There was a song on his first
Speaker 1: album called dream and Eyes of Mine and which the
Speaker 1: time I asked his producer, Bob Power, did you guys
Speaker 1: like break the drum machine or something, because the way
Speaker 1: that it was programmed, this is how that song sounded,
Speaker 1: which made me knew that he spoke that drunk language
Speaker 1: his programming was like. Which once Bob convinced me like, no,
Speaker 1: we did that on purpose, then I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I think you're just saying that. But then once I
Speaker 1: heard Wu Tang Clan and which there is this sort
Speaker 1: of does that with this production, But I kind of
Speaker 1: feel like it's the accidental tourist, like, oh dog, that's
Speaker 1: hip hop, Like I just I programmed it offbeat, like
Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing. Once we got to
Speaker 1: that place in that level, then I just okay, this
Speaker 1: this is the new language. I'm gonna throw away everything
Speaker 1: that my mom and dad put me in school for
Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna drum like a five year old
Speaker 1: from now on. But really it's just being human. That's
Speaker 1: that's all I consider it. You know, were you when
Speaker 1: you were playing that way for D'Angelo? So you're he's
Speaker 1: any audience and you're watching him while you're doing this.
Speaker 1: He stood up and pointed. Either he pointed or gave
Speaker 1: me like the black power fists sign like yo. The
Speaker 1: sentence was, Yo, that's my drummer or that's my brother,
Speaker 1: Like I just I had to let him know I
Speaker 1: get you, I underestimated you. I'm sorry, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: be down. I speak the same language too, and he
Speaker 1: got it. He got it in that moment. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that so much. I think if you, if you
Speaker 1: didn't have the training that he had in the precision before,
Speaker 1: you couldn't do the drunk stylist as well as you do.
Speaker 1: You're right. I don't think I don't recommend people. And
Speaker 1: you know that's kind of crazy you say that, because
Speaker 1: even now, young drummers are on YouTube going to the
Speaker 1: top of Mount Fuji to learn the fancies thing, and
Speaker 1: I tell them all the time, like you gotta go
Speaker 1: to first grade first. You don't start off getting your doctorate.
Speaker 1: My dad was a notorious he loved that whole James Brown,
Speaker 1: I'm finding you five ten dollars for that role. You know,
Speaker 1: my dad's doing oldie stuff. So basically all this stuff
Speaker 1: is all the same, like like he will not My
Speaker 1: father did not hesitate ever to just he wouldn't even
Speaker 1: look at me. You just look at his right hand
Speaker 1: and if he flashed the five, five, ten, fifteen twenty,
Speaker 1: that's where I really got my disciplined chops from not
Speaker 1: wanting to have my salary at the end of the night.
Speaker 1: Thank God for your dad. Yeah. After the break, Questlove
Speaker 1: talks about his tenure at the Tonight Show and how
Speaker 1: it's improved The Roots as a band. We're back with
Speaker 1: more Questlove. I was talking about playing drums. Can you
Speaker 1: practice too much to know something? Here's the thing. I
Speaker 1: don't practice enough. When the Roots first got the Tonight Show,
Speaker 1: Like the first day where we had to sit in
Speaker 1: front of each other and rehearse, that was one of
Speaker 1: the hardest musical moments of my life. Like I actually
Speaker 1: stopped rehearsal after like three minutes and called my manager like, Yo,
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird, man, what do we do Because
Speaker 1: literally we've had a relationship as a group for eighteen
Speaker 1: years where it's just like sound check, three hour show.
Speaker 1: We never rehearsed, so to be facing each other and
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to be creative was so
Speaker 1: hard for Like the first two weeks and then we
Speaker 1: got over that quickly, and then notice like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: really good songwriters together because previously we were doing the
Speaker 1: white album thing like Okay, here's my song and let
Speaker 1: me hear your song. Yeah, I got a bridge for
Speaker 1: that when you hear my song. So now like we're
Speaker 1: writing songs together, but then it's also being in those
Speaker 1: close quarters enabled us to actually be friends again. One
Speaker 1: of the weirdest things I saw we opened up for
Speaker 1: the Chili Peppers in Italy at a soccer stadium for
Speaker 1: the ninety thousand people, and there was a part after
Speaker 1: the third song on the show, those four got a
Speaker 1: magic circle, like Chack came from behind a drum set
Speaker 1: and they all came in a magic circle. And I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, the audience is cheering and it's like
Speaker 1: three minutes and then go back. By the fourth night,
Speaker 1: I was like, why don't they just have a set list?
Speaker 1: So I went to Flea and I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: what do y'all talk about when y'all get in that circle.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, man, we're just like grateful. Man. I
Speaker 1: was like, what do you mean. It's like, dog, we're
Speaker 1: just a la Ben. You know, in front of a
Speaker 1: soccer stadium of one hundred thousand people. Man, I said, oh,
Speaker 1: you're not talking about the show or anything. He says, Nah, Man,
Speaker 1: we're talking about like dinner that night, and remember that
Speaker 1: riff we did in rehearsal, Like we just take three
Speaker 1: minutes out to be grateful for this moment. So then
Speaker 1: I went back to my manager. I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: they're not even talking about anything deep. They're just talking
Speaker 1: about that and he's like, oh, that makes sense. I
Speaker 1: was like, that's not silly to you. He's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: they like each other. You guys don't like each other,
Speaker 1: And that hurt me so bad. I'm like, we like
Speaker 1: each other. It's like, dude, you have a slither in
Speaker 1: a griffin door bus. You guys traveled separately. You don't
Speaker 1: talk to each other. Da da dah. You got to
Speaker 1: be friends in order to get that sort of magic back.
Speaker 1: And then seeing them do that, then that really retooled
Speaker 1: our relationship with each other. And then the third part
Speaker 1: was that just personal rehearsal time. Like now that we
Speaker 1: have a steady job and I almost feel like I've
Speaker 1: robbed our fan base for eighteen years because I've learned
Speaker 1: so much in these past ten years of doing the
Speaker 1: show that I didn't know. I got educated on how
Speaker 1: to make music, how to be a band, how to
Speaker 1: be a better musician in these past ten years that
Speaker 1: I didn't know between nineteen ninety two and two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, which is weird, amazing, it's amazing. I'm not
Speaker 1: giving back refunds either. It's funny. It's funny when you
Speaker 1: say that about the Chili Peppers in the circle. It's
Speaker 1: like you you said they weren't talking about anything important.
Speaker 1: They were actually talking about the only thing that was important.
Speaker 1: Had they only been talking about the show, it wouldn't
Speaker 1: have mattered, you know, they were interested in something higher.
Speaker 1: Let's yeah, I didn't realize it at the tiple. I
Speaker 1: get it now, but I didn't realize that talking about
Speaker 1: the show. Who comes to mind of a musical artist
Speaker 1: who's been on the show, who completely blew you away,
Speaker 1: and you were it really caught you by surprise, unexpected,
Speaker 1: hands mind blowing, hands down. I did not know how
Speaker 1: powerful Bruce Springs was at the time. I believe you
Speaker 1: celebrate me the anniversary. It wasn't the River, it wasn't
Speaker 1: Nebraska because the night Belongs to Us incredible. Maybe it
Speaker 1: was Darkness on the Edge of Town. It was one
Speaker 1: of the albums that he was celebrating, like the thirty
Speaker 1: fifth anniversary release of He had asked the Roots to
Speaker 1: kind of amalgamate themselves into the EA Street Band, so
Speaker 1: he had the supergroup. I mean, we could have just
Speaker 1: first off in to orbit the energy. I've never seen
Speaker 1: anything like that in my life. And then that night
Speaker 1: he played the Apollo Theater, he literally climbed the scoffolds
Speaker 1: like the wall like Spider Man. He climbed up the
Speaker 1: wall of the Apollo Theater to the top tier level.
Speaker 1: I only seen Fishbone do that like climb. I was
Speaker 1: just like, I have no energy this. I've never seen
Speaker 1: energy like this in my life. And then watched him
Speaker 1: at Madison Square Garden two days later, like I was
Speaker 1: an honorary East Reader for like two weeks, and I
Speaker 1: was flabbergasted that all that greatness I'd known about and
Speaker 1: really didn't investigate and really regreted. But playing with him
Speaker 1: was amazing. But I mean, every act that's ever been
Speaker 1: in existence, it is such a bucket list moment for us.
Speaker 1: But you what did you guys play do you remember
Speaker 1: we did because the night belongs to us. And then
Speaker 1: the second time he came back to the show, we
Speaker 1: did the while the Innocent of the East Shuffle, which
Speaker 1: he invited all four hundred members of the audience to
Speaker 1: rush the stage because why not it was the NBC
Speaker 1: Security was like no, but you know, it's the greatest
Speaker 1: job in the world. And people always ask like you
Speaker 1: tired of yet? You tired of yet? I mean not
Speaker 1: every day is the fourth of July. But there's a takeaway.
Speaker 1: There's there's something exciting, and it doesn't even have to
Speaker 1: be music. I'm doing stuff with Steve Martin and doing
Speaker 1: sketches with Martin Scorsese. There's always something that's entertaining, like
Speaker 1: I realize now, and it's weird, Like from the age
Speaker 1: of two when my parents kind of be into the
Speaker 1: music business, every aspect of it, until I became their
Speaker 1: band leader at twelve, I didn't realize that this is
Speaker 1: the job I've been training for. Like in my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna start a band and then
Speaker 1: we're gonna win Grammys, play this place in that place,
Speaker 1: and sell out this arena in that and that's not
Speaker 1: even half of it. All the knowledge and the wisdom
Speaker 1: that I have of music gets utilized in the show.
Speaker 1: So I love it. We'll be back with more quest
Speaker 1: Love after this break. We're back with more from Questlove.
Speaker 1: How is your taste in music changed from the time
Speaker 1: you were a little kid? It's you're wide open. Lately,
Speaker 1: I've been exploring the stuff I shouldn't have not shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been listening to. But it's like, Okay, I'm a
Speaker 1: member of a Columbia house record club. Why did I
Speaker 1: get Debbie Gibson's Out of the Blue album? What I've
Speaker 1: been the critic of me now, Like once I discovered
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone, then suddenly I became like a rock snap critic,
Speaker 1: and I know, buying those record guys and whatnot. But
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, Christine sixteen was the first Kiss forty
Speaker 1: five ever brought. I love Kiss Meets the Phantom and
Speaker 1: then only reading on it later that oh that that
Speaker 1: was their jumped the Shark moment or that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I know all opinions are subjective critically
Speaker 1: about action and whatnot, but as far as like how
Speaker 1: I listen to it, it's weird now, Like I wish
Speaker 1: I could. I mean the way that I'm describing getting
Speaker 1: an orgasm from music, that excitement. It doesn't happen so
Speaker 1: much now because you know, I believe that songs that
Speaker 1: you consider good songs that you consider bad. But then
Speaker 1: there are songs that you know are effective and not effective,
Speaker 1: And especially as a DJ, that world always conflicts with me.
Speaker 1: So songs that I wouldn't normally listen to in my
Speaker 1: spare time, I know are crucial and work for me
Speaker 1: well at DJ gigs. And then there will be songs
Speaker 1: that I'll play at a DJ gig in which I
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna lose the audience by more than half,
Speaker 1: and I'm still committing to it because I feel that
Speaker 1: what's a good example of something new one I'll never
Speaker 1: play a root song. And the first time we ever
Speaker 1: went to North Carolina, like the DJ like, oh we
Speaker 1: got the Roots in the house, there was like one
Speaker 1: clap and then and then he put the song on
Speaker 1: and the dance floor absolutely cleared, and you know, rightfully
Speaker 1: so like there's no establishing other one. You can't have
Speaker 1: any type of funk music or any soul without the
Speaker 1: establishing other one. Like we were playing everywhere, but the one.
Speaker 1: It's like, now, I'm interested in telling stories when im DJ,
Speaker 1: so I plan these meticulous, scientifically proven it's like a
Speaker 1: beautiful mind. Like I'm doing these math graphics of the
Speaker 1: songs in this key and okay, this is a flat
Speaker 1: and the Beatles modul eight two D, and then I
Speaker 1: could put Human League after that and da da da da.
Speaker 1: So that's how I craft my DJ gigs. Now. To
Speaker 1: give me an example, I did the gig of my life,
Speaker 1: a six hour DJ gig in Central Park for the
Speaker 1: Hamilton after party for the Tonys from eleven PM till
Speaker 1: five in the morning. I was god. Every song was
Speaker 1: perfectly segued, was in the right key. It told a story.
Speaker 1: People write me letters. Oh my god. There was the
Speaker 1: most life changing display of music. You went from Current
Speaker 1: the Frog to dinner and I did everything anything with
Speaker 1: music from Benny Goodman on down to Drake from nineteen thirty.
Speaker 1: I covered it and they ate it up like nerds.
Speaker 1: I did the same shit at the White House two
Speaker 1: days later for Obama's Last Night in the White House.
Speaker 1: Oh that's that famous party fail. Oh yeah, it was
Speaker 1: so Two hours into it, he tasted me on the shoulder,
Speaker 1: say you know you're doing good job. I love the
Speaker 1: Donna summer and the old school hip hop and the jazz,
Speaker 1: and but look at them. They want to have fun too.
Speaker 1: And he's pointing to his kids. They're having a sit in.
Speaker 1: They're having a sit in, and they're just like looking
Speaker 1: at me and like, nah, none of this shit works.
Speaker 1: And a man. So then I became the DJ I hated.
Speaker 1: I'm like googling, all right, let me go to Spotify,
Speaker 1: see what kids are listening to, like that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So I became that guy, the guy I hate the most.
Speaker 1: And then suddenly that night became animal house like. It
Speaker 1: was the most, the botchers the most. I mean, I
Speaker 1: could describe the smells like teen Spirit video to give
Speaker 1: you an but it was like that crazy. They consider
Speaker 1: it the best night they ever had in their lives,
Speaker 1: and I'm having There's some I heard some story, possibly apocryphal,
Speaker 1: that involves us sure getting into a getting into it
Speaker 1: on the dance floor with who with Barack Obama like
Speaker 1: they're they're they're they're dancing like he's coming up to
Speaker 1: me like a player. Do you have French Montana? And
Speaker 1: I was like, sir, uh, I don't have the clean
Speaker 1: versions of that. He's looking like we're all adult to
Speaker 1: go go play it. I was like, sir, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna play pop that pussy, but what you're working with,
Speaker 1: you know, literally like I'm you listen to Grant. All
Speaker 1: these presidents are like looking at me in the Hall
Speaker 1: of Presidents, shaking their head like I will say that.
Speaker 1: At one point, like I was really depressed because I
Speaker 1: have planned to make my grand stay. They were going
Speaker 1: to declare a national holiday after me because I'm I'm
Speaker 1: the function way DJT Like I knew I was going
Speaker 1: to get a MacArthur Genie's scrant for this shit. And uh.
Speaker 1: At one point again, I'm like looking on the internet
Speaker 1: songs kids like, and Springsteen walks in and I'm telling
Speaker 1: you it's you can't imagine a wilder like think of
Speaker 1: the Eagles backstage stories, think of Freddie Mercury's Queen Jazz
Speaker 1: released album, party Tales, think of Animal House, think of
Speaker 1: like think of everything. That's how wild that party was.
Speaker 1: And Springsteen walks in and instantly Patty's like, we're going
Speaker 1: to party. He pulls and he looks at me. He
Speaker 1: gives me that look and shakes his head a little
Speaker 1: bit like I know, you know better than that, and
Speaker 1: I just I felt a shame, like, yeah, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I sold out. Why does the what is the World's
Speaker 1: Greatest set list? Not work? At the White House? What
Speaker 1: went wrong? So here were his words. I was on
Speaker 1: the verge of teers because I built this up to
Speaker 1: be like, this is gonna be my grand statement. I've
Speaker 1: been waiting for eight years to have this moment. And
Speaker 1: whenever you build something up in your head and it
Speaker 1: doesn't go out in your favor, okay, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: a panic attack. And I knew I was going to
Speaker 1: have a panic attack. So I was like trying to
Speaker 1: exit stage left and get out of there. No no
Speaker 1: come back, and you know they're all like play more
Speaker 1: and I gotta go and okay, thanks, thanks, thanks. So
Speaker 1: afterwards i'm walking, He's like, so you have a good time.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, it is no did you have
Speaker 1: a good time? I was like, oh, it was cool.
Speaker 1: Because then I didn't want to make it about me.
Speaker 1: This is his last night, his night to get loose
Speaker 1: and everything. They're all everyone's crazy, drunken, all this stuff.
Speaker 1: This was his night. So I was just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was cool, and he's like, what's wrong. I was like,
Speaker 1: you don't want to hear it? I'm cool, tell me
Speaker 1: and he's all right, let me guess you're you're liking
Speaker 1: an artist and you you planned your your grand artistic
Speaker 1: vision of how you thought the night should go and
Speaker 1: didn't work out, and you're overthinking it and you're thinking
Speaker 1: that you know, I sucked And I was like, well yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: he said. So he tells me a story. He says
Speaker 1: he talks about Charleston in the Dylan Roof situation with
Speaker 1: the massacre. He said he knew that thirty seconds after
Speaker 1: the shooting happened that he was going to have to
Speaker 1: speak at that funeral, so he had crafted He had
Speaker 1: instantly knew. It's like, okay, I got to craft the
Speaker 1: speech of my career. This is going to be my
Speaker 1: profiles and courage, you know, ask not what your country
Speaker 1: can do. So he says he has the speech of
Speaker 1: his life, like ready to go. He's been working on it,
Speaker 1: perfecting it, and he goes down to Charleston, South Carolina,
Speaker 1: and he knew three minutes into that speech it wasn't
Speaker 1: going to work. And so he's like going in and say.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm not I'm not reaching the people. And
Speaker 1: he's like looking at his people trying to warn him
Speaker 1: in some sort of baseball signal that I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: rogue and freestyle, and they're getting them set. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're the worst when you go on your own without
Speaker 1: us approving the script. And he said, some just told me.
Speaker 1: Barry starts singing amazing Grace. Then he starts singing amazing grace.
Speaker 1: Incredible moment, right and everything turned around. He says, you
Speaker 1: know what I did? He said, I served the people.
Speaker 1: I served the people. I saw that something was wrong.
Speaker 1: I figured, how can I fix this. I took a moment,
Speaker 1: I breathed, collected myself, and I served the people. He said,
Speaker 1: And what you did tonight you saw someone was a
Speaker 1: little off and you served the people. There's honoring that
Speaker 1: you did the right thing. We at the time of
Speaker 1: our lives. You served the people. So you should be
Speaker 1: proud of yourself. Now, do you feel better? No? I don't.
Speaker 1: I cannot so as as the way, No, I mean,
Speaker 1: it really messed me up. A majority of twenty sixteen
Speaker 1: I rejected, like eighty percent of the gigs. Was I
Speaker 1: was depressed. I was just like, if you fail at records,
Speaker 1: what good is your life? And then that's when I
Speaker 1: started my thing, like, well, I'm gonna stop DJing at
Speaker 1: nightclubs and just do it for the kids. And hopefully
Speaker 1: when these parents bring their three year old kids here,
Speaker 1: they'll see me the same way that I was doing
Speaker 1: on the block party, and oh, I want to do that.
Speaker 1: That was my mission. But no, his wife asked me
Speaker 1: to curate her book, Becoming, and again they asked me
Speaker 1: to just put like thirty songs together, and I wound
Speaker 1: up putting one thousand, four hundred, fourteen hundred songs. They
Speaker 1: were like a mirror. We didn't ask for the story
Speaker 1: of my life, but we'll take it anyway. So you know,
Speaker 1: I had to redeem myself. Thanks to Questlove for kicking
Speaker 1: off our second season, you can go to Broken Record
Speaker 1: podcast dot com to hear the songs discussed in this
Speaker 1: episode and in Part one. Broken Record is produced by
Speaker 1: Justin Richmond and Jason Gambrell, with help from Mielobel, Jacob Smith,
Speaker 1: Julia Barton, Jacob Weisberg, and of course Rick Rubin and
Speaker 1: Bruce Headlam. Our Broken Record theme song is by the
Speaker 1: great Kenny Beats. This show is brought to you by
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. I'm Malcolm Gladwell.