WEBVTT - Does Facebook hate privacy? 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.000 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:08.959 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:18.079 tech Style from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.640 and welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Pault, 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.079 and I'm an editor here at how stuff works dot com. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.599 Sitting across from me, as he does on these occasions, 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:29.880 is senior writer Jonathan Strickland. Hey there, it's only an 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.080 island if you look at it from the water. You 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.080 don't get that one because you haven't seen that movie. Yeah, 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:38.440 you don't even know what I'm talking about. Our listeners 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.440 do because they like Jaws. All right. So before we 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.639 get into this, I just wanted to thank some listeners. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.320 We had several people right in and ask us about 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.040 the topic we're gonna tackle today, and I have a 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.720 list of folks that I want to go through really quickly. 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:56.840 So for Bradley, Ryan, Ian, Nate Vincent, David, Susie Gerald, 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:02.640 Mike John and probably more, this podcast is for you. Wow. 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.120 Thanks for that long distance dedication, Casey. Yeah, and that 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.759 was just from our email. There are probably more on 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:11.720 Facebook and probably more on Twitter, because everyone wants to 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:16.160 know about Facebook and privacy. So we're in. We have 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:22.479 decided to title this podcast does Facebook Hate Privacy? And 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.639 as I normally insert our silly jokes at that point 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.679 in the conversation, I should say, no, actually, that's a 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.800 complicated question. Yeah, for one thing we talked about, right, 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:36.560 that's a good point. Actually, Petty, I'm glad that you 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:38.480 because I was about to just go on and I 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.560 had just said before we started recording that we should 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.600 mention that Polette's the one who remembered thank you. Um 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.720 yes about back in two thousand nine, Back in October, 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.120 we did a podcast about Facebook applications and your privacy 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.120 and the complicated relationship there about how if you install 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.240 apps in your Facebook profile, you are essentially giving third 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:03.720 party act says to your profile information. And at the time, 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.760 there was a question about how much of that information 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.800 was going to these third party developers. In some cases 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.840 it was just the very basics that the application needed 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:20.040 to operate properly, but others it was it was confusing. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.520 There was there was way more information going to these 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.680 developers than you would think would be necessary just to 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.480 allow you to do whatever the app was designed to do. 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.520 And some of the developers were sort of had sort 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:36.240 of questionable credentials, and there were people going, Okay, wait, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.560 what what am I getting here? Um? And you're getting 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.320 my information? Why why is it that I want to 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:47.000 give this virtual puppy to my my girlfriend on her 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.880 Facebook profile page. Why do you need to know my name, race, 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:55.840 my reli religious beliefs, my credit card number? Uh, the 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.040 names of all my friends? Why do you need all 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.000 the information if I'm just gonna give a little picture 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:05.519 of a puppy dog. Um. So, So, anyway, that that's 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.919 the whole app situation, that's a third party situation. We're 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.200 gonna try and stay away from that in this discussion. 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:16.760 We're gonna focus mainly on Facebook itself. Yes. Now, Facebook, 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.760 of course started as a project for for college students 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.480 and by college students. Yes, we probably shouldn't get into 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.359 the murky genesis of this project because there has been 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:31.000 much said about who owned what intellectual property and when 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.040 and whose idea it really was. Regardless, we know that 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.880 it came out of a Harvard dorm room, right, So 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.640 what happened behind the doors of the Harvard door room 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:45.240 dorm room is still a mystery. But ultimately Facebook emerged 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.600 around two yes, so, So originally it's a system for 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.080 college students to stay in touch with each other. It 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:57.080 eventually spreads to other colleges and becomes a larger network, 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.640 then rolls out the high school students, and then eventually 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.600 rolls out to the general public. Um. I think it 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:04.800 was two thousand seven when it finally hit the general public, 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:11.040 so somewhere around there something like that. So, uh, Originally 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.760 it seemed fairly sane. At least when you created a profile, 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.520 the information you created was some of it was publicly 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:23.960 viewable on Facebook, and the reason for that was pretty 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:28.080 pretty innocent. The whole purpose of a social network is 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.440 for you to create connections with other people. Well, you 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.800 can't really do that if everyone who joins the network 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.400 is invisible to each other. I mean, there might as 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.200 well not be anything there, right Well, and uh, and 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.000 I'll correct myself in saying this. In two thousand four 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.080 when it actually got started, I mean, the point was 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.760 it was actually within a very small community. So the 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.159 point was to you know, make friends and get to 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:56.479 know the people in your closed off community. Right. So, 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.920 so when you start factoring that, and it makes makes 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.320 things seem a little less malevolent than you would have 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:08.599 people believe from the way things have progressed to the 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:12.080 current status. Um. As a matter of fact, if you 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.719 don't mind my interview, go ahead. Um. The Electronic Frontier 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:19.560 Foundation actually has cataloged some information about sort of and 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.040 chronological order the way that the privacy policy has changed. 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.520 And and around two thousand five, Um, you basically somebody 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.000 had to be in one of your groups on the 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.040 Facebook dot com. Right, this is when it was the Facebook. 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.840 I'm not actually doing elite thing there, No, they actually 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.040 was the Facebook dot com. Um, somebody actually had to 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.479 be in one of your groups. You had to enable 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.240 them being in your group for them to actually see 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:47.159 your information. So I mean it's by default at that point. 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:52.040 That was the way it worked. Yeah. The most anyone 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:53.760 would be able to really be able to to see 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.640 would be like, uh, your name. And the reason for 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.000 that is that if you joined the network, you would 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.160 want to search for your friends and see if they 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:03.839 were also on there, so that you could send them 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.320 a request and you could become connected through this network. Yeah. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.240 I went to a small college. Um, when I was 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:15.120 in school, we actually had a campus directory, a paper 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.920 campus directory that had all of our names and what 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.520 what room we lived in if we were on campus, 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.600 or you know, our address for off campus, our email address, 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.719 you know, and like I said, a photo of us 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.640 so that you could identify one another. And if you 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.360 didn't know somebody's last name, there was a list of 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.480 names in the back, so you could say, you know, Jonathan, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.400 I'm John. What's Jonathan's last name? You could look up, Oh, 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.000 there's six Jonathans. You could flip through and figure out 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.160 which one it was. You know it was Jonathan's. Was 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.080 a small college, well, you know about in the student 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.600 body tone, so you had you had about fifteen some 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.560 of your classes at the University of Georgia. I think yea, um, 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.960 but no, I mean it's the idea already existed in 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.919 other forms, and I'm sure that that a lot of 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.400 colleges are like that, you know, even now they have 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.960 some kind of campus directory. Yeah, and this was just 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:05.240 essentially an online version of that, although it had a 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.479 little more functionality because it allowed to share photos and 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:12.800 other things. So Facebook when it rolls out to the public. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.360 When it first started, there were only certain things that 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.920 we're going to be network wide viewable, right, And again 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.720 this is this wasn't. There wasn't any bad reason for that. 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:24.800 It was also that you could find the people you 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.520 know so that you could connect with them online. And 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.280 that philosophy is pretty innocent. The problem really comes into 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.480 it when the Facebook starts getting looking into creating a 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.920 business model. And the real business model for Facebook comes 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:44.320 down to advertising. Yes, selling information to advertisers, selling ad 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:49.200 space to advertisers. So the more information that you share 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.600 on Facebook, the more information Facebook has to sell to 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:58.160 people who want to advertise directly to you. Right, and 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:03.960 how could this possibly well, clearly now if you're taking 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.160 it from purely a business perspective. All right, so I'm 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:12.200 a businessman, I have it's I'm an a moral businessman, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.640 not immoral. I am a moral morals do not factor 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.720 into my business decisions. Okay, So I'm just looking at 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:24.000 the best way to maximize my profits. I have a 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:28.040 company where I've got five million people using my product. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.320 I have the option to either let people, as soon 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.360 as they join my company or become a customer to 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.640 my company, I have the option to either let them 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.720 dictate to me which things they want to participate, how 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.480 much information they want to share with me, or I 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.760 can make it so that the the the default setting 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:52.079 is you share all everything with me until you tell 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:56.359 me otherwise. Um. Clearly, if I make my money through information, 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.320 more information means more money. So my my choice is 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.760 going to be, let's go with a default. I want. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.640 I want as much information as I possibly can get 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.360 from all these users because the more information I have, 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.880 the more money I make. Right now, put yourself, if 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.800 you will, in the shoes of the advertiser. You want 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:18.040 to spend money to advertise a product to our service, 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:22.160 and you want to reach as many people as possible. Ideally, 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.040 you want to reach as many people as possible who 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.640 actually have an interest in what you're selling. Right. So 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:33.120 the thing is, uh, Facebook offers a very i won't 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.959 say unique opportunity, but a really awesome opportunity for people 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.080 to do that because Facebook can say, look, here are 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.560 a bunch of people living in Omaha, Nebraska, and that's 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:48.199 where you do business, and these this subgroup is really 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.200 interested in buying a new car because you know, we 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.240 we could tell that they are, you know, getting this, 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.280 They're they're interested in, in, uh, looking at cars, they 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.480 have cars on their likes, things that they have already 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.720 thumbed up. We know that they are a certain age, 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.560 a certain demographic, at least sixteen years old, that kind 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.120 of thing, and yeah, so we can we can offer 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.360 you this information, and we're going we'll shoot, Yeah, let's 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.280 go ahead and and advertise to this particular subgroup of people, 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.960 because there there's a really much higher chance that somebody 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:20.520 in this group is going to buy what it is 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:22.560 that we're going to be selling them. Right, instead of 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:27.160 carpet bombing, you're you're you're doing a surgical strike, right, 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.400 You're you're looking you're narrowing down the huge audience to 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.080 an audience that is much more likely to respond to 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:38.120 your advertising. And so it's called targeted advertising. Yes, you 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.280 know that you are targeted based upon the information that 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.720 you share, which kind of classifies you in a way, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.160 and it classifies you and actually it classifies you entising 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.320 numberless ways. Well that's because you know, for one advertiser, 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.160 you're classified as a consumer because of a certain set 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:59.800 of criteria. For a totally different advertiser, they're still interested 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.599 in you, but it's for a completely different set of criteria. 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.160 And and it all is based upon how much information 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.960 you are sharing on Facebook. Right. So you've got the 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:13.640 advertiser who is buying into Facebook saying, you know, here's 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.080 some money I have. You have a really great opportunity 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.840 for me to advertise, you know, I targeted to a 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.800 targeted audience. Facebook's going, hey, We've got lots of information 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.440 that you can use to advertise. And then you have 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:30.040 the third party, which would be you and me, going hey, 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.199 wait a minute, what are you doing with my information? 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.720 Why are you you know, giving away my information to 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.000 these third party advertisers. Yeah. Actually, I the way I 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.880 think the best summation I've heard so far about the 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.559 entire situation came out of an Internet discussion. It was 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.640 in a chat room and one person said, and I 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.080 wish I could remember who it was, but one person 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:57.360 summed it up as saying, Facebook's customers are advertisers, yes, 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:02.040 Facebook's product are the users, yes, so the users are 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:06.200 being sold two advertisers. So you know, normally, when we 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:09.880 think of customer and and business operator, we would think, oh, 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:11.800 well I have a Facebook account. That means I'm a 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.680 Facebook customer. Facebook is providing me a service, and uh, 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.200 and I'm a customer of that company. But if you 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.800 look at it from Facebook's perspective, their customer is the 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.200 advertiser who wants to give the money in return for 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.360 a certain a certain slice of the users. And so 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.360 you know, it's it's it's kind of a cold hearted 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.000 way of looking at it about the same way. That's 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.560 that's how Facebook is able to make the money it 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:41.880 needs to provide this platform for users to to go 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:46.640 and create profiles and interact with one another. I mean, ultimately, 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.199 if Facebook did not do this, they would have to 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.400 find some other way to generate enough revenue to support 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:57.640 this massive platform. Well, corporations themselves have no feelings. They are, 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.680 as you pointed out, a moral and uh, you know, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.080 the law does treat them as people. So essentially that's 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.200 that's who we're talking about. But they don't they don't really, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.280 you know, there's no offense. It's just business. And Facebook 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.040 is a private company right now, so they don't have 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.280 shareholders looking to them to maximize value. Yeah, so if 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:21.400 face if and when Facebook goes public, because they've talked 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:25.000 about going public but have not given any timeline as 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.319 to win that might happen. But should Facebook go public, 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:31.360 I would say you could expect it to get worse 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.640 rather than better in the sense that when you when 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.640 you go public, people purchase stock in the company, and 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.120 people want a return on that investment. And usually what 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.559 that means is they want the company to maximize profits 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:49.280 at any opportunity. And in the case of maximizing profits again, 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.920 since Facebook is in the business of selling information of 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.320 users to advertisers, that means that that situation is just 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.400 gonna get worse. Let's talk a little bit about all right, 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.880 Let's say that you were to create a Facebook profile 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:07.720 today the default setting if you did not tweak any 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:12.199 privacy settings. That's really where the big brew haha is 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.760 brewing right now. Yeah, it started out as a kerfuffle, 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.920 but it is now a full blown Yeah. Yeah, it 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:22.280 was moved up. Yeah, we have definitely gone to brew haha. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:27.320 For um, we're almost at rush moving pictures. Yes, get 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.600 that joke. So originally, if you had created a Facebook profile, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.040 stuff that would get shared with the network would be 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.640 like your name, right. Everything else would be contained within 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:43.440 your your group of friends or the immediate network that 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.280 you belong to. So for example, the school you went to, 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.160 like back when it was a college only thing, right, 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.680 So there'll be certain things that by default everyone could see, 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.800 which would be essentially your your name so that they 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.240 could look you up. Everything else, they would have to 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.680 either be your friend or have to be within your 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:07.400 immediate network to see the information like maybe your your 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.960 photos or whatever, or your status updates. Well, here we 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.000 go back to the the e f f's timeline. UM. 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:19.560 In two thousand six, the comp the Facebook said basically that, uh, 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.080 you know, yes, you have some control over your privacy. Uh, 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.560 you people in your school and in your local area, 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.400 we'll be able to see who you are, but otherwise no, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.880 And then in two thousand seven, uh, they said they 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.320 would start sharing your name and your photo and your 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.640 school name. You know, this is as it was making 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:42.440 the transition into a public, uh social networking site. UM, 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.560 unless you said you didn't want to do that, but 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.240 that was the default was you know, name, photo and 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.560 the school that you're going to. And uh, then that's 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:54.480 when everything started to change. In two thousand nine ish 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.040 and two thousand nine was when they tried to launch 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.520 Beacon Beacon. Beacon Beacon began. You've made that same joke 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.720 the last time, but I always think it okay, So anyway, 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:05.920 the because I listened to the last one before we 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.680 did this one. So it's been nine months. Beacon, what 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:16.160 was the the arrangement Facebook had with other websites where 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.240 you would go if you were a customer on the 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.480 other website and you happen to have been logged into 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.200 Facebook and didn't log out, you go, so you go 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.840 over let's say like Amazon. So you go to Amazon, 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.000 you buy a book. Normally, if you wanted to share 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.160 that information, you would go back to Facebook and say, Hey, 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.600 I just bought such and such book I can't wait 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.920 to read it. Beacon, you don't have to do that, 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.800 because Bacon was enabled, it would tell everybody automatically what 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.400 you purchased. Yeah. So, and if you're buying you know, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:48.440 like uh, Terry Pratchett's The Color of Magic, you know, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.480 you might not mind the fact that's being shared with 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.360 all your friends. In fact, I would suggest that you 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.360 do tell everybody that you bought that. But let's say 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.240 you purchased Living with Cancer and you had not told 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:01.640 anyone that you had cancer, or that someone you love 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.040 has cancer, and that's the book. You bought the book 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.959 for someone else. That is the kind of information you 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:09.880 might not necessarily want to immediately go to your Facebook 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:14.760 profile and be shared with everyone else on Facebook. Um, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.760 the Beacon ended up going away after a class action lawsuit. 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.600 I was kind of scuttled in two thousand In September 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.080 two thousand nine, Uh, it's kind of slowly crept back 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:29.119 in a different form, um Well. Mark Zuckerberg, the CEO 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:33.560 of the company and founder, Uh well contentiously saying yes, 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:38.439 the the the founder is basically saying that, Um, you know, 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.960 he had issued an apology when Beacon went away, saying, 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.720 you know, we did this the wrong way, and that 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.000 kind of suggested at the time that it was going 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.159 to come back in some form. Yeah. He And and 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.560 it's it's a little bit more of an opt in 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.600 situation before it was opt out. And we'll get into 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.720 a little bit of that in a second. So let's 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.160 say you create a You've created a profile right now, 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:06.440 the default setting right now, everything all of your information 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:11.200 by default is public, except for your contact information, which 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.520 remains only visible to you and your friends by default, 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.920 and your birthday, which remains visible only to you, your 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:22.359 friends and your friends of friends by default. But everything else, 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:26.040 like the friends you have, the networks you belong to, 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:30.359 your status updates, the things that you like, your pictures, 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:36.760 your all of that will be public um by default. Right. 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.760 So that means that even if you've just created your 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.439 profile today and you haven't tweaked any settings. Uh, someone 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.560 who has never met you before, doesn't You don't know 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.960 this person, you don't want them to be your Facebook friend, 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.159 could go to your profile and see practically all the 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.720 information you've put down so far except for your contact 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:01.199 info and your birthday. That is kind of creepy, yep. Now, 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.679 Facebook had received lots and lots of complaints when it 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.679 when essentially moved to this model, and their response was 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:14.240 to overhaul their privacy settings um a couple of times actually, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.159 and by the time this comes out, who knows, it 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.880 may have been overhauled again. It happened earlier in two 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.280 thousand and ten, and I think that's that's when it 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.080 went into a full fledged breujaha because they really opened 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.600 up more information and Mark Zuckerberg had essentially said at 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.639 the time, Look, you know, this is a social networking site. 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.320 You're supposed to be social. Why would you want to 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.760 be keep your information private if you joined the site 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.680 to network with people, which is and we we've Chris 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.080 and I talked about this the other day just in 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.800 a in a a brief conversation, you think about two 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:53.040 different archetypical Facebook users. You've got one type of Facebook 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.359 user who has no real concern about privacy. Uh, not 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.920 that they're ignorant about it, just that they don't really 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.520 that's not a issue. Yeah, it's not an issue. So 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.840 they're fine with sharing everything. They want to meet as 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.320 many people as possible. They're very social and they want 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.840 to maximize that impact on Facebook. So they're willing to 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.880 not just make connections with friends, but they want complete 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:17.840 strangers to be able to see their information because who 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.480 knows the complete stranger it might just be their next 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.760 best friend. Then you've got the other type of Facebook user, 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:27.960 who is someone who sees the value of Facebook, but 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:29.960 wants to use Facebook to stay in touch with a 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:34.560 very specific group of people. And beyond the group of people, 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.680 this person has really no interest in Facebook. They don't 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.360 want to use Facebook to meet new people. They don't 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.159 even necessarily want folks that folks they know to be 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.760 able to find them on Facebook easily, because in some 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.080 cases it might be folks they don't particularly like, and 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:52.440 you don't want to have to deal with online harassment 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.879 if you already had to deal with it in person. 0:20:55.080 --> 0:21:00.359 So so this kind of Facebook user, uh doesn't want 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.560 that default of sharing everything with everyone. This Facebook user 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.919 wants to be able to keep that as much information 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:13.000 shared with just the immediate group of friends as possible. Yes. Uh. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.880 And it's kind of interesting because Chris sort of represents 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:20.119 not not quite that level of Facebook user, but not 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.160 too far from that Facebook user, and I represent kind 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.560 of not the hey, look at me Facebook user, but 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.359 I'm closer to that side than the other. Yeah, we 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.800 we For the purposes of the argument we were talking 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.560 about extremes um. And however, both Chris and I both 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.040 agree that Facebook's approach is the wrong one to have, 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:42.119 because the right approach would be that you give the 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:46.760 user the option to opt in to what he or 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.600 she wants to um to share at the very beginning. Well, 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.840 privacy advocates agree with us. UM. And the thing is, 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.120 I think it would just this, this is my personal opinion. 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.119 I think it would engender more trust in Facebook as 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.600 a company. If Facebook said, sure, you know, why don't 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.160 you start out private, meet some people you know, and 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.000 as you gradually get used to this and like it more. 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:13.480 Then you can open yourself up to more and more people. 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:17.000 They do have a lot of very attractive functions on 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.760 the website. You know, the gaming community is thriving and 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.479 other applications are are doing very well too. There are 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:24.359 things that keep you there on the site there. You know, 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.480 in in web terms, they're called sticky. It's very sticky website. 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.440 And you know, it would be very good for them 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.960 to engender trust by doing this, but a lot of 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:37.760 people are distrusting Facebook right now because they say, hey, look, 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:41.800 you're just open. You're here, that's the deal. Now we 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:44.240 should say that you can go into privacy settings and 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:46.720 adjust your privacy settings so that you do have the 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:50.200 experience that say Chris would want. You can have the 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:54.320 experience where you you restrict your information to just your 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:56.920 group of friends and no one beyond that, and then 0:22:56.960 --> 0:22:59.160