1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: It's something we heard multiple times the two of us 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: from various people was that Jed looks at what Cleveland 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: does fondly. He's very impressed with them. Welcome into North 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: Side Territory, Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: with my partner Patrick Mooney, where your Cubs beat writers 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: over at the Athletic Patrick, I'm not going to take 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: the first thirty minutes of this podcast and talk about 8 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: freshman Will Riley scoring thirty one points. I'm not going 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: to talk about Illinois basketball for thirty minutes. I promise 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: you I'm not going to take a mag major detour 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: here and turn this into an ALIGNI basketball podcast. Ty 12 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: Rogers transferred, It's okay, we got Will Riley. I know 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: you have no idea what I'm talking about, but it's 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: all right. I rarely do so it I really do. Obviously, 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: I'm preoccupied with Illinois basketball, but that's all right. We 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: got cubs to to talk about. Patrick. I don't know 17 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: if if everyone listening read the story that we published 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: uh Monday morning, but it was something that you and 19 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: I put a lot of work into a lot of 20 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: time into and and talked to a lot of people. 21 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: As far as we don't need to get too far 22 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, but as far as reporting goes, I 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: think we uh, we talked to a lot of people. 24 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: We we did a lot of work on this, and 25 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: we've been digging in on this from the moment we 26 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: heard little tidbits of it in September. Uh, So it 27 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: was something that we've been excited to get out there 28 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: to the public and and uh eager to see the response. 29 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: And I felt like it was a solid response. And uh, 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: that's that's what we're going to talk about today and 31 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: address some of the some of the reaction and and 32 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: uh some of the details in that piece. Uh, Patrick, 33 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: you want to kind of explain what the piece was 34 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: and and and why why it's important. 35 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the headline really summed it up well. 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 2: Inside the Cubs plan to get back into the playoffs, 37 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: more analytics and fewer scouts, and that sort of encompasses 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: not just some cutbacks recently, but it tells a larger 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 2: story of kind of how the Cubs have evolved and 40 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: what they've become. And I know you can get into 41 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: this more in a moment, but this was not a 42 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 2: reaction to a disappointing season. It is really kind of 43 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: how the Cubs have been moving in a certain direction 44 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: for a long time. I think they were a little 45 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: aimless there at one point after the World Series, just 46 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 2: Jet Hoyer redefining his baseball operations department. But sort of 47 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: the bottom line is they've drastically reduced their pro scouting department. 48 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: They've made some cutbacks in player development, particularly just blowing 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: out a very experienced wing of staffers. At the same 50 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: time they're hiring in spaces like player development and R 51 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: and D. And really, I guess the other component of 52 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: this is every team uses a model, right, they use analytics, 53 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: but the Cubs have really gone all in on this. 54 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: And I think part of why we wrote this was 55 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: we had heard about this, We sort of understood it, 56 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: but I don't think we had accurately conveyed to our 57 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: readers and Cups fans just how the depth to which 58 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: they've gone with this, and that it's the players they draft, 59 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: the players they trade for, the free agents they signed. 60 00:03:53,400 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: It is done underneath this very intricate sort of model. 61 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: System, right, And and there's a this is something that 62 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: other good teams do, like that's that's true. But like 63 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: there's there's there's sometimes pushback on you know here and 64 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: there who does this and whatnot. But the reality is 65 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: models are used by a lot of teams. How to 66 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: what extent and to what degree scouts are involved? Is 67 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: is the big is the big you know difference I 68 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: guess between between various teams and and IVY has been 69 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: built up for since the O and Jed got here, 70 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: right like, that was one of their big things because 71 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: they're that that system just didn't really exist for the Cubs. 72 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: They were behind on that now. I mean, something that 73 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: we did find out is Ivy's pretty good, like compared 74 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: to some other teams around the league. They have a 75 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: good system. They have a good model in place, and 76 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: like as far as when players use it and players 77 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: try to get information from it. From what the feedback 78 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: we got, IVY solid, IVY, he's you know, better than 79 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: some around the league. Something that I kind of that 80 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: I thought was interesting. We did get some people saying, 81 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: like why are they just it seems like year to 82 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: year they're going from one team to the other trying 83 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: to copycat. I don't that that's not happening here right 84 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: Like to a degree sure, Like, look, when Jed hired 85 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: Carter Hawkins, there was a reason he did that, right, 86 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: what we were we did a lot of reporting on 87 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: that as well, the GM hiring process. And something we 88 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: heard multiple times that two of us, from multiple various people, 89 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: was that Jed looks at what Cleveland does fondly. He's 90 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: very impressed with them. How they develop pitching, how they're 91 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: able to do these things and like basically create pitchers 92 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: out of nowhere, things like that, Right, Their player development 93 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: was really intriguing to him. How they did that, how 94 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: they built their winning teams was something he was very 95 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: curious about. And Carter Hall comes from there and he 96 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: knows what they do and a lot of what they 97 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: do in the international space and amateur space and in 98 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: those different spaces is where they're model heavy. Right, So 99 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: he knew this was coming, Like he he wanted this, right, 100 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: he wanted Carter to present these ideas, and he wanted 101 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: to embrace this. And and now this is kind of 102 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: I don't want to say it's the final form, but 103 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: it's just one more big step in this evolution. What 104 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: what I think we heard like that was so when 105 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: when people say it's like they're just following other teams. 106 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: Here's where that I disagree with that. A lot of teams, 107 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: majority of pretty much everyone we talked to outside the 108 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: ORG said what they're doing is kind of extreme. They're 109 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: not going in person scouting above the complex league outside 110 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: of rare cases where it's like, Okay, maybe a second 111 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: look at at a player that we need that we're 112 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: contemplating trading for. But get like, what we also find 113 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: out found out is they didn't even do that this year. 114 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: They didn't do that second look with Eastac Paraitis. This year, 115 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: they didn't do that with Nate Pearson. So it can't 116 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: be a reaction because they were already doing it this year, 117 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: Like no in person looks for guys that were pretty 118 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: significant trade acquisitions. I mean, they got a look at Paritis, 119 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: I guess in June right when they when they played him, 120 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: they got a look at that. They have a lot 121 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 1: of background to Pierson because they almost drafted him. Artis 122 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: was obviously in the ORG. But still it's this is 123 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: out of the ordinary, right, Like when I think when 124 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: when I heard that, I was a little like, WHOA, 125 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: that's wild. You didn't see the person. You didn't see 126 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: the guy you traded for the deadline in person the 127 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: month leading up to the deadline. That just like for 128 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: me as someone that's covered baseball for so long and 129 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: spend so much time talking to scouts, I mean, what 130 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: do we do in July when we're in the press boxer, 131 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: like in the lunch room? Right, who do we run 132 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: into all the time? Like, we run into scouts because 133 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: they're there scouting guys that may be traded in that game, right, 134 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: Like it it's like standard practice, and the Cubs are 135 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: growing a more video data based, you know, way of 136 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: going about things. And that's like, I think we need 137 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: to be clear that that doesn't mean it's a bad thing, right, 138 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: It's just different, and we'll see, we'll see what it 139 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: leads to. Right, Well, I'm. 140 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: Glad you brought up the idea of different. We'll take 141 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: a quick break here and then get back into like 142 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: how this is a stark contrast from how the twenty 143 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: sixteen team was built. 144 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: This episode is brought to you by Manscape, the global 145 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 3: leader and men's lifestyle and grooming. 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Rolling Pro scouting was a big part of that. 169 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 6: When you look at trading for Kyle Hendrix trading for Jakerietta, 170 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 6: signing John and John Lester to two very good contracts. 171 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: However, I think something that came through during the course 172 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: of our reporting is that within these last ten years, 173 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 2: the game has really shifted. The amount of information has 174 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 2: just exploded, and when we're talking about data and video, 175 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: that has clearly shaped how they want to deploy their 176 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: scouts moving forward. 177 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean it's it's about allocation of resources, right, 178 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: Like it's it's like, how are you spending your time? 179 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: Like the one valid point that I felt I heard 180 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: about this was you can scout a few players when 181 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: you go to a ballpark. Right, Maybe, if you're a 182 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: really dogged scout, you can get to like two ballparks 183 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: in a day, two or three. It maybe lower levels, 184 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 1: they're they're closer and you can get to like three, right, 185 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: But it's hard to go around to various games. Like 186 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: if you're doing video, I mean think about that, you're 187 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: sitting in your office or at your home and breaking 188 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: down video for eight hours. How many different players and 189 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: how many different areas can you can you break down? 190 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: Like it's more efficient, It's a more efficient way in theory, right, 191 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: of right, the scouting of scouting guys. Of course we're 192 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: gonna get pushback from scouts, and we did get pushed 193 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: back from scouts. So the value of in person scouting, right, 194 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: there's so many things and I think as reporters we 195 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: probably have fought this that. I mean, we have fought 196 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: this battle as well. The value of travel right, Like, 197 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: it's like there's so many things you can see when 198 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: you're at the game. People you run into and start 199 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: conversations with, Like scouts do these things too, that they'll 200 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: they'll start conversations with people like us that may have 201 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: information other scouts build up, build up those relationships. So 202 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: when you pick up the phone and are able to 203 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: call someone, and it's because you have built up that 204 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: relationship with a lot of in person chats, right, getting information, 205 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: seeing things on the field, Like a lot of things 206 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: we heard was about camera angles being not great, right, 207 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: and really hard to like evaluate talent with the camera angles. 208 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: So so scouts like not getting a great Like I 209 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: can't see the guy getting a jump from second base 210 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: his base running, I can't see how the guy reacts 211 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: on defense. I only see the end of the defensive play. 212 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: I want to see how the guy works before the game. 213 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: I want to see how the guy interacts with his teammates. 214 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: Like I've picked up gossip about how a guy is 215 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: after the game, how a guy you know, guy's doing 216 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: this and that and the other, uh, you know after 217 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: the game out out at the club or whatever. It 218 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: may be, that they hear things, they talk to people, 219 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: they see things that they wouldn't see on video. You're 220 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: going to get like there are front office people around 221 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: the game that believe that that's not enough, We're not 222 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: valuable enough. Right. Scouts are going to push back strongly 223 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: on that. But the reality is, you go, look at 224 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: what what did we find? Seven of the twelve playoff 225 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: teams have robust scouting staffs right two others Baltimore and Houston, 226 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: we're hiring. There's like I've heard different things over the 227 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: past couple of days too, like others may be hiring too. 228 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: I we haven't confirmed that, so I don't want to 229 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: say for sure, but like, this isn't like it certainly 230 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: isn't the direction all teams are going right now. But 231 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: I do believe the Cubs feel like and that this 232 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: is they're ahead of the game, and this is eventually 233 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: what what will be the industry standard? 234 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there are lots of different ways that 235 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 2: a team can go about this, and our job is 236 00:13:55,040 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 2: to put things in a broader context. So certainly the 237 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: Guardians are very good at this and consistently sort of 238 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: outperform expectations. Our understanding is that the Brewers under David 239 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: Stearns underwent sort of a similar transition a couple of 240 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: years ago, and we all know how good the Brewers 241 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: have been. It's totally reasonable to say, well, the Cubs 242 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 2: don't play in Milwaukee or Cleveland, and the Dodgers and Yankees, 243 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 2: the two teams in this World Series, have a very 244 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: robust pro scouting apparatus. They view it as non optional. 245 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: You can see where there are different wrinkles to this, 246 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: like the Rays obviously are extremely data driven, but they 247 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: also have a very strong scouting staff that you know, 248 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: the numbers sort of line it up and then their 249 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: evaluators can make recommendations or try and find some kid 250 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: in at edges, anything to get some sort of. 251 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: Edge, right, Patrick, real quickly, I have to interject there 252 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: because I heard something about Tampa that I thought was fascinating. 253 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: Not only is that true, like what you're saying. But 254 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: the pro scouts, they they themselves are allowed to adjust 255 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: the model. They'll they'll go like, they'll mess with it 256 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: because they know enough, and they've been educated enough, and 257 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: they've been trained, and they'll because of their ability to 258 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: know the understand how to work with the model and 259 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: their scouting experience, they'll say, this is all you can't 260 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: you can't look at it like this, you can't do 261 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: this you and and they'll adjust it. And I think 262 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: that's fascinating. I really like, like you want to talk 263 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: about combining the two and really like really maximizing things. 264 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: I think that's fascinating. And I thought that was you 265 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: know that that may be something where you need the 266 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: right type of scouts that are that are super educating 267 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: in the model and are capable of doing these things. 268 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: I don't know enough about how exactly that works, but 269 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: I thought that was fascinating when I when I talk 270 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: to someone about that. 271 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 2: Well, that cuts right to the sort of heart of 272 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: this of culture, right and that is still sort of undefined. 273 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 2: I think that would be a good place to pick 274 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: up for our last segment here. So it's side of 275 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 2: like what does this mean, Like what are the Cups 276 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: trying to build their Cubs listeners out there following hopefully 277 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 2: our coverage from the GM meetings, you know, reading everyone 278 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: at the athletic Like how does this sort of influence 279 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: the Cubs thinking this offseason? Like how should we sort 280 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: of view every random tweet of you know, team X 281 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: interested in player? Why? Like what do the Cubs want? 282 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: What are they hunting right now? Right? 283 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: So that's interesting, right, Like there's are is there is 284 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: everything dictated by a machine a computer? Right? Are they doing? Everything? 285 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: Is is jed just being run by something else? Is 286 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: the model running the Cubs? That's that's not how it works, right, 287 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: Like the model is going to spit out the value 288 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: of the player and and what it kind of strips 289 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: away in Remember, like I'm not sure how much of 290 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: this I I one hundred percent agree with or or 291 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: or whatever. The different people feel different ways about these things, 292 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 1: but it strips away some of the bias that that 293 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: may come with with scouting. 294 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 2: Right. 295 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: Then again, like some of the like a lot of 296 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: what scouts believe is put into the model too, right, 297 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: So that's not even And it's also it's also the 298 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: models created by a person. So there's got to be 299 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: some sort of bias in there. Uh. But they're like, ultimately, 300 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: as Jed has told us, they're they're trying to build 301 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: a sustainable winner, right, Like that is the goal, and 302 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: they believe that the like this is the way to 303 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: do it. They're they're headed in that direction right now. 304 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: I think something that we heard along the way that 305 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: I think is important is it's not dictating strategy. It's 306 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: not telling them to uh like what it's what it's 307 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: helping them understand is like it's giving them, in their opinion, 308 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: the least biased view of a player's value. Now they 309 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: debate like do we, like, do we think we should 310 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: spend more than what the model says? On Corbin Burns, 311 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: I'm just throwing out a name, right, do this is 312 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: we need a picture more than a batter, We need 313 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: this more than that, right? And they debate that, and 314 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: it's like, we're at this point in our tension cycle, 315 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: We're willing to spend more than the model says. We 316 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: can't spend more than the model. Whatever it is. Strategy 317 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: is debated by and and uh and like dictated by 318 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: the human beings, which is Jed Hoyer, Carter Hawkins. You 319 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: know uh S and Bacary, the assistant gms that you know, 320 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: all these guys in the front office that are that 321 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: are you know, high up there. They're they're making the 322 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: decisions and and uh figuring out who they're going to target, 323 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: how much they're going to spend. But the model gives 324 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: them a lot of info. It's not dictating strategy, but 325 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: it is giving them, like they they're they're relying on 326 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: it to not make terrible decisions, right, Like they don't 327 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: want to make extreme decisions, and and it kind of 328 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: gives them something to kind of tether themselves to as 329 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: they move forward. 330 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and to be clear, like, no one knows if 331 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: this is gonna work or not. If you if you 332 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 2: you can totally be optimistic, if that's how you choose 333 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: to mute, you can push back on this sort of 334 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 2: quest for efficiency. I mean, the Cubs have good players. 335 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 2: They don't have super bad contracts weighing down their books. 336 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 2: They have a cluster of good prospects at the top 337 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 2: of their minor league system. Like can totally work. It's 338 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 2: just that you see a team that finishes with eighty 339 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 2: three wins, whether it's managed by David Ross or Craig Council. 340 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: You see how certain teams like the Padres or the 341 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: Phillies have you know, extended their payroll to places that 342 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 2: the Cubs really haven't, or done deals out of scale 343 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: that the Cubs haven't, and you just begin to wonder, 344 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 2: you know, when does this emotion or urgency sort of 345 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 2: take or how does that sort of manifest itself here 346 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 2: for a team that has to win next year and could. 347 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 2: But it's just that if you're I think something that 348 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 2: we've talked about a lot that you kind of saw 349 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 2: on social media, like, you know, this Cups team has 350 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: good players, you know, professionals in the clubhouse. There's definitely talent. 351 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 2: There wasn't a lot. It just felt they were sort 352 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 2: of like there right they were, you know, near the 353 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: third wild card, kind of hanging around, not out of it, 354 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: and it just felt like to me, at least, that's 355 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: sort of how the team was constructed, to just sort 356 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: of put out something respectable, you know, that could help 357 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 2: sell almost three million tickets to regular feel give a 358 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 2: little bit of hope, but not over extend themselves, not 359 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: jeopardize any future possibilities of winning. And I do think 360 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 2: it's fascinating now that they have gone in this direction 361 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: to see like how do they adapt again? Right, because 362 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 2: there is enormous pressure on this group to not just 363 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 2: have what they believe is a very sound process, but 364 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 2: to produce great results. 365 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: Right. And I so something that we heard along the way, 366 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: and I know I keep saying that, but I think 367 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: it's important because we heard so many different things, and 368 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: sometimes there we're recurring themes. Was if the model is 369 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: so good, why have they just won eighty three wins? 370 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: Why do they have the top payroll in the NL 371 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: Central and still struggle to compete in the division? I 372 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: thought that was a fair point. I thought that was 373 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: very fair. Some pushback that have gotten over the past 374 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: few weeks on that, I think makes sense. You know, 375 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: ultimately they've a lot of what they've done with the 376 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:09,239 Speaker 1: model has been pro acquisition, right. I don't know if 377 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 1: they've made any awful decisions when it comes to pro 378 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: acquisition over the past two three years, Right, Say, Suzuki 379 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: should him a major? 380 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 6: Yeah? 381 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, Dan some people I know people have issue with 382 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: Dansby Swanson. He's a valuable player, Okay, And then and 383 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: then you look at the rest of their pro acquisitions. 384 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: They've been valuable players, if not impactful as far as 385 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: like much more valuable than what they gave up or 386 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: what they're spending. The rest of that stuff takes a 387 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: little while to catch up. Like you can't talk about 388 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: the draft and and know when that impacts them. You 389 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,640 Speaker 1: can't talk about international and and say that, like, these 390 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: things take years to know if it's working. Two hundred 391 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: and three million dollars payroll. Listen, and I like, something 392 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: kind of hit me recently, and I don't like this 393 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: is just the optimistic view. I don't know if this 394 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: is going to work. And I don't know if I 395 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: like I think they like this has to work, right, 396 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: otherwise it's a different front office. Right, So, like they 397 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: have the pressure on them that they have they have 398 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: to deliver, But two hundred and forty million dollar payroll 399 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: with almost no young talent until impacting the team until 400 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: the end of last year, right, Michael Bush, sure, but 401 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: then PCA and Miguel Amaya didn't start helping the team 402 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: until late Porter Hodgeen start helping the team until late 403 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: this year. This upcoming season, not only should you have 404 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: those guys that we mentioned, but all these young guys 405 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: should be helping the team, and you don't have to 406 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: think that it's going to be around a two hundred 407 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: and forty million dollars payroll again, right, so you have that, 408 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: you have the two hundred and forty million dollars payroll 409 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: plus all the cheap talent, the cheap young, good talent. 410 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: That's how you build winner, that's how you win games 411 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: like that is it's been the missing ingredient over the 412 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: last few years. Young talent coming up and helping the team. 413 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: And it's not one or two guys. It's Matt Shaw, 414 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: it's so in Casey, it's Moys's Biosterius, it's Kevin ol Contrez, 415 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: Kate Horton or all those guys are going to be 416 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 1: awesome and help the team. I don't know. I like, 417 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: I won't say that that that's the case, right, but 418 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: you add in those five names that I mentioned, and 419 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: then and then Cam Smith and James Trianto's I don't 420 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: know who's going to be traded. I don't know who's 421 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: going to be there. I'm just saying they have a 422 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: lot of young talent about to hit the majors. This 423 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: is when you really say, like two hundred and forty 424 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: million dollars payroll and young talent. That team should win. 425 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: If you did this right, that team should win. So 426 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: now that makes sense to me. So eighty three wins 427 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: the last two years, the model isn't working. I don't 428 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: know if that's a fair criticism. I think in three 429 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: years from now, we're saying seventy five wins the model 430 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: isn't working. That's a very fair criticism. If even a 431 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: year from now, like we won't be having much more 432 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: discussion about Jed Hoyer and company. I think being around 433 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: if they're winning seventy something games or eighty three games 434 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: and out of the playoffs, right, like, it's just that 435 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: they're they're on notice to win. But I thought that 436 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: was an interesting way to frame it, and it got 437 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: and it did make sense to me, because that's I mean, 438 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: you want, like I don't want. I don't think it's 439 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: fair to compare this team to Arizona, right, I don't. 440 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: I don't like the dumbing down of things and like, hey, 441 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: they're gonna play under these restrictions, financial restrictions. No, you're 442 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: the Chicago Cubs. I don't want that. But why did 443 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: Arizona make it to the playoffs last year, they like 444 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: and make that run last year because they had this 445 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: insane amount of young talent impacting their team. There were 446 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: veterans there, but a ton of good young talent. Even 447 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: when Texas won it all, Evan Carter was a huge 448 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: part of that, right, rookie, Like there's there was one other. 449 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 1: There were a couple other young guys who, like my 450 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: brain isn't we're calling them, But like even the ones 451 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: that spend big, you need some young guys. 452 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 3: Right. 453 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: It's just the reality of baseball, and it's how it 454 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: works nowadays, and I think that's something that we can't 455 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: completely ignore. 456 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: And I think, sort of to wrap up, I think 457 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 2: what the Cubs have now, because they've been so deliberate 458 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 2: and disciplined, is to be in on who says before 459 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: just about anyone other than mon Soto like Corbyn Burns 460 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: is obviously gonna have a huge number. You'll get a 461 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 2: huge number. Maybe it's not a winds up being not 462 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 2: quite as enormous as you know everyone thinks during the 463 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: GM meetings and as players linger on the market like 464 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 2: a Cody Bellinger, there's book Blake's Now last year comes 465 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 2: they're going to be in position to strike for almost 466 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: anything they need. And at even taking away the thirty 467 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 2: million that's going towards Bell for next year, there's still 468 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 2: the huge chunk of money available for major league payroll. 469 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 2: This year, you go out and get a frontline starter. 470 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 2: Maybe the model says one thing about relievers, but maybe 471 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: you do as you suggest, kind of read that read 472 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 2: the room a little bit right and recognize what you 473 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 2: need to kind of close out games, Add another catcher 474 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 2: and then that way. Yeah, you do have just a 475 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: steady supply of depth and young players impacting your ball 476 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: club in lots of different ways over a very long season. 477 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you talk about reading the room, I think 478 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: I think that that's that's something that is important to remember. Ultimately, 479 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: these are humans making the decisions right as much as 480 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: model is being relied upon and used and and and 481 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: things like that, and and scouts may feel their opinions 482 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: aren't as valued as much. Others feel like, hey, that's 483 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: what the model is for. We're putting we're inputting your 484 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: information into the model, and that's what that's how it's 485 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: being used. It's not like this verbal debate as much 486 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: until afterwards, after here's the value and now let's debate 487 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: these things over and that that's where the emotion that 488 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: may maybe missing in other ways comes into play when 489 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: you're having these debates about how, you know, we have 490 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: to get a high leverage reliever, No, we have to 491 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: go a little bit out of our comfort zone this 492 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: time and do this, and you have someone fighting for that. Like, 493 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: those those debates still happen, and hopefully they're happening in 494 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: earnest with the Cubs, Right, you don't want everyone being like, well, 495 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: the model said this and they're all in agreement. If 496 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: that's happening, I think they will fail, right, Like, you 497 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: don't want everyone agreeing and everyone being like, yep, this 498 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: is exactly what we're doing and we're all in agreement, 499 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: no debate, Like, if that's happening, then it's not an 500 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: effective front office, and for my understanding, that's certainly not 501 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: the way it works. I look, Patrick, I think ultimately 502 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: like I think you and I when we heard all this, 503 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: we were a little taken aback, and it was a 504 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: little different than what we're used to hearing, right, I mean, 505 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: who do we talk to the most scouts? But after 506 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: reporting it out and coming through everything, I think we've 507 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: heard a lot of different ways about how this may 508 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: play out, and ultimately I'm just like, I'm very curious 509 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: to see what happens. I'm like, we know a little 510 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: bit more about this front office now, how things work. 511 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: They haven't been good enough and result wise the last 512 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: two years, so the pressure's on. We need to see results. 513 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: How do they execute it this off season? Right, you 514 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: don't get the results this off season. We won't know 515 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: until a year from now. But like, obviously huge off season, 516 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: a lot of important decisions being made, and we understand 517 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: a little bit more about the decision making. So let's 518 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: see how it plays out. But it's obviously obviously gonna 519 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: be very interesting to follow. This week, we'll like next 520 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: episode will we'll we'll dive into a little bit more 521 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: about the strategy of it all and what they may do. Obviously, 522 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: there was big news with Cody Balinger opting in, and 523 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: that changes a lot of things. Who they go after, 524 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: what how they upgrade the offense? I think is a 525 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: fascinating topic we'll tackle next. Next episode will be part 526 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: of a lot of what we talk about next next episode, 527 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: probably over the next few months. So this is Northside Territory. 528 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: Thanks so so much for listening everyone. Make sure to subscribe, 529 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: rate and review. Would love it if you subscribe to 530 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: the YouTube page and subscribe to The Athletic. Hey Patrick, 531 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: We're profitable man, so keep subscribing, subscribe no matter what. Yeah, 532 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: thanks so much. Relicitating everyone to take care