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Speaker 1: You can step up to that starting line at the

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Speaker 1: race and be like, I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how it's going to go today. But you have your

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Speaker 1: fourteen weeks, your twelve eight weeks of training in your

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Speaker 1: back pocket, and so you just have to trust your training.

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Speaker 1: You don't know how the race is going to go,

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Speaker 1: but you have to have faith in the work that

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Speaker 1: you've done to get to this point. It's worked for

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Speaker 1: me and running, and it continues to work for me

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Speaker 1: in my career.

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Speaker 2: What's going on? Everyone, Emily A body here. You are

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Speaker 2: listening to episode two hundred.

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Speaker 3: And eighty eight of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where

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Speaker 3: I talk to inspirational people about everything up from their

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Speaker 3: highest hies and toughest moments to essential tips on how

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Speaker 3: to live a healthier, happier, more motivated life. We all

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Speaker 3: go through our fair share of hurdles. My goal through

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Speaker 3: these discussions to empower you to better navigate yours and

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Speaker 3: move with intention so that you can stride towards your

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Speaker 3: own big potential.

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Speaker 2: And of course have some fun along the way.

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Speaker 3: For today's episode, I am elated to bring you my

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Speaker 3: conversation with nicki Oganaki. She is the editor in chief

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Speaker 3: of Marie Claire and a dear, dear friend of mine.

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Speaker 3: Nicki and I met through the industry god knows how

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Speaker 3: long ago, and have had the opportunity not only to share.

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Speaker 2: Many trips, many runs, many.

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Speaker 3: Glasses of wine together over the years, and we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about all of that in today's episode. I

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Speaker 3: candidly am so inspired by Nicki. She is one of

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Speaker 3: those friends that when I spend time with her, she

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Speaker 3: makes me want to be a better version of myself.

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Speaker 3: She's so motivated and driven, as you can tell when

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Speaker 3: she talks to you about her impressive career journey getting

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Speaker 3: to this point where she is now at the head

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Speaker 3: the boss of Marie Claire, arguably one of the most

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Speaker 3: popular woman's magazines in existence. She also opens up about

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Speaker 3: her relationship with exercise and the different things that she

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Speaker 3: does in her day to day to feel at home

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Speaker 3: in her body. But as I told Niki before she

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Speaker 3: walked in today, I was really excited about the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to sit down with her because she is so motivated

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Speaker 3: and so driven. She gives so many excellent tips for

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Speaker 3: anyone who is trying to find their way within their career.

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Speaker 3: In today's episode, as well as how to stay resilient

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Speaker 3: when things don't go your way. Plus, she answers the

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Speaker 3: question that so many people hit me within the DMS

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Speaker 3: on the regular, how do you own your no? How

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Speaker 3: do you say yes to the things that empower you

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Speaker 3: and respectfully step away from the slew of invites or

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Speaker 3: hangouts or whatever else may not be serving you in

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Speaker 3: the moment. It's sometimes, for sure, easier said than done.

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Speaker 3: Make sure you're following along with us over on social

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Speaker 3: The show is over at Hurdle Podcast. I am over

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Speaker 3: at Emily a Body And if you're not yet subscribed

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Speaker 3: to the weekly Hurdle newsletter, I want you to get

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Speaker 3: the same inspiration, motivation and stuff you love from the

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Speaker 3: show directly in your inbox every single Friday. The link

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Speaker 3: to do that, it's absolutely free, is in the show notes.

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Speaker 3: With that, let's get to it. Let's get to hurdling. Today.

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Speaker 3: I'm sitting down with my dear friend Nikki Oganaki. She's

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Speaker 3: the editor in chief of Marie Claire. How are you

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Speaker 3: doing today? I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 4: I have this is like it's been a long time coming.

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Speaker 3: This is like the longest time coming. And it's so

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Speaker 3: funny because there have been so many evolutions of Niki,

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Speaker 3: probably since like it was first something that was discussed

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Speaker 3: when I introduce you as I just did.

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Speaker 2: Do you still have a second where you're like, holy crap.

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean up until probably two months ago, I would

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, yeah, I'm the digital director at Harper's Bazaar.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, that's actually not my job anymore.

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Speaker 1: Editor in chief is interesting because I'm not surprised to

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Speaker 1: find myself in this role, but there are moments where

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Oh, I'm the one in charge.

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Speaker 3: Who let that happen? How did this happen to me?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Yeah, such a cool sentence. I'm the

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Speaker 3: one in charge. I personally would have a hard time

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Speaker 3: owning that sentence.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but you realize if you're not going to own it, like.

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Speaker 2: Who who will? One hundred percent.

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Speaker 3: When you were coming up as a journalist, did you

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Speaker 3: anticipate that this kind of path was the one that

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Speaker 3: you'd be after Not at all. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I did not anticipate this path at all, mostly because

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Speaker 1: I've never really seen people who look like me in

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Speaker 1: this role, and I've never when I graduated from college

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, I like digital was barely

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Speaker 1: a thing, you know, like we had websites kind of,

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Speaker 1: and you know that's not even like really to date myself.

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Speaker 4: That was just like, yeah, they just weren't that big

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Speaker 4: of a deal.

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Speaker 1: And you know, when I was an assistant and a

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Speaker 1: junior editor, I thought that I was going to be

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Speaker 1: a market director, which is in the fashion the fashion department,

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Speaker 1: and they're the people who sort of like liaise with

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Speaker 1: the stylists and the photographers who make sure that everyone

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Speaker 1: has the clothing that they need on set. And I

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Speaker 1: quickly realized that I didn't necessarily want to do that.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to write more.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to have freedom and what I was covering

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Speaker 1: and the things that i'd be able to do where

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Speaker 1: i'd events i'd be able to go to, and working

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Speaker 1: on websites, and digital just like afforded me that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so you ended up spending more time doing

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Speaker 3: something that at first you didn't necessarily think was going

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Speaker 3: to be your jam.

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Speaker 1: Right, And then I think as I progressed in my career,

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Speaker 1: it just slowly but surely became a sort of situation

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Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, I can do that, and

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Speaker 1: I can do that, and I can do that, and

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Speaker 1: I guess that's what being an editor in chief.

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Speaker 3: Does, is yeah, And so I'm here.

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Speaker 4: I can do all the things, and now there's just.

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Speaker 3: The title with it. Now there's just a title with it.

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Speaker 3: Appropriately so because so many people do all the things

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Speaker 3: and there's absolutely no title, no money with it. It's

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Speaker 3: just like the way of the journalism industry at this point, right.

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Speaker 1: And I was telling I didn't an interview a week ago,

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Speaker 1: and I was telling the journalists that this job as

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Speaker 1: an editor in chief is bigger than it ever has

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Speaker 1: been before. When I started at Bizarre, I read Tina

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Speaker 1: Brown's memoir The Vanity Fair Dye, which is an incredible

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Speaker 1: read if anyone hasn't read it. It sort of talks

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Speaker 1: about what her journey was like in the eighties and

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Speaker 1: the nineties being editor in chief of Vanity Fair. And

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Speaker 1: not to diminish her job in any way, because she

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Speaker 1: is like one of the best of the best, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of the job was, you know, giving parties,

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Speaker 1: dinner parties and and schmoozing with people. And she basically

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Speaker 1: invented the Vanity Fair party and so doing that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff along with the writing and the editing. But

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Speaker 1: there was no social media, there was no video, there

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Speaker 1: was no you know, TikTok you being an influencer yourself.

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Speaker 1: There was just like the words.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So now this job has grown, you know, three four

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Speaker 1: times what I could have ever imagined it becoming.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's also so interesting because I feel

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Speaker 3: as though it's so much more of these days, to

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Speaker 3: your point than being a figurehead when you're talking about

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Speaker 3: the Vanity Fair diaries and like having to be a

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Speaker 3: schmoozer like that essentially is bizarre to think that someone

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Speaker 3: is at the forefront quote unquote, they're in charge, right,

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Speaker 3: and they're getting paid all of this money to do

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Speaker 3: a fraction of the things actually at that time, back

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Speaker 3: in the day, that someone like an editorial assistant or

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Speaker 3: an assistant editor or a regular like all of these

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Speaker 3: lower quote unquote lesser roles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's easy to.

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Speaker 3: Find resentment in that, at least I'm speaking from personal experience, right.

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Speaker 4: And it's funny because you know, the job is big.

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Speaker 1: I don't make nearly as much as as Tina Brown made.

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Speaker 3: Back then, does anyone?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, probably not, But yeah, it's just a

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Speaker 1: lot bigger than it ever could have I could have

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Speaker 1: ever imagined it to be. I think that I'm happy

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Speaker 1: having a little bit of everything on my plate.

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Speaker 2: How does it feel to be a leader?

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Speaker 1: How does it feel to be a leader? It depends

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Speaker 1: on the day. Honestly, some days it's incredibly gratifying. Some

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Speaker 1: days it's like some of the hardest things that I've

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Speaker 1: ever done. You are not taught to be a leader. Really,

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Speaker 1: I think you have it somewhere innately, it's within you,

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Speaker 1: and then you can read books or work with coaches

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Speaker 1: or whatever to sort of like develop and grow and

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Speaker 1: harness those tools. But the day to day is it's different.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of it can just combobulate you some days,

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Speaker 1: it can really fill you up other days.

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Speaker 3: What do you think has been foundationally important to you

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Speaker 3: yourself as you've stepped into your power as a leader.

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Speaker 1: I like to talk about like when I became a

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Speaker 1: digital director at Bizarre versus how I've entered into editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of Marie Claire. And the biggest difference, I

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Speaker 1: think is that I care less about what people think

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Speaker 1: about me as a person. Honestly, I was very concerned

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Speaker 1: about how I would be perceived by my staff when

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Speaker 1: I started at Bizarre, how I would be perceived as

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Speaker 1: a black woman who was entering into that role for

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Speaker 1: the very first time. When I was at Bizarre and

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Speaker 1: now at MC, I just kind of care less about

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Speaker 1: it all. I think it's in part it's because it's

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Speaker 1: a less charged time. Like I started at Bizarre in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty. You know, we were having a racial reckoning,

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Speaker 1: we were having a media reckoning all at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So it's a less charge time now to become editor

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Speaker 1: in chief. But I think also in the three years

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Speaker 1: that I was at Bizarre, I just sort of learned

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Speaker 1: what I really need to care about and what I didn't,

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Speaker 1: and so I've actively work to sort of like leave

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Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff behind.

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Speaker 2: How does someone care less?

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Speaker 1: I think somebody cares less in practice. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how to describe to care less. I think it's practice.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like honestly growing up. I think it's.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's flip it for you, right, because obviously there

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Speaker 3: was a moment I'm assuming that you realized caring so

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Speaker 3: much about the opinions of others wasn't serving you. Can

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Speaker 3: you articulate or maybe land on when that was for you. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I can't.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I think think that the moment I realized that

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Speaker 1: I was being kept up late at night and maybe

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Speaker 1: other people weren't, and my health was being diminished and

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Speaker 1: other people were like fine in coasting, I was like,

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Speaker 1: wait a second, hold on, I am like dying inside

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Speaker 1: and I'm you know, like crying at night or like

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Speaker 1: just so concerned, and everyone seems to be just fine.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, well that can't be the

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Speaker 1: way things are anymore. And so yeah, there was sort

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Speaker 1: of that flip where I was just sort of like

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Speaker 1: I can't sacrifice myself, my well being, my mental health

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Speaker 1: and everyone else is just fine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. We call that on the show a hurdle moment.

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Speaker 3: I had a hurdle moment. And in that hurdle moment,

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Speaker 3: you said mental health, physical health. How was this like

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Speaker 3: manifesting for you when you realize that these anxieties were

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Speaker 3: really impacting you.

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Speaker 1: I just always felt on edge, like people would be

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Speaker 1: like how are you? And I always felt like I

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Speaker 1: was about to cry. You know that feeling where you're

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Speaker 1: just like I'm fine, in your throat like breaks a

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Speaker 1: little bit and you're like is that a tear I

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Speaker 1: said I was fine, but I don't know if I'm fine,

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Speaker 1: And so just really tapping into that and realizing that,

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Speaker 1: like I wasn't working out as much and that was

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Speaker 1: affecting my mental health, and I wasn't getting as much

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Speaker 1: sleep as I was before, and sort of just working

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Speaker 1: through all of those things and getting back into a

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Speaker 1: fitness habit and getting back into you know, just like

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Speaker 1: waking up early and having coffee and a bit of

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Speaker 1: a morning routine.

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Speaker 3: All of that was really useful. Yeah, And it's it

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Speaker 3: seems or sounds from the get go like it can

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Speaker 3: be interpreted two ways. It can be interpreted as like

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Speaker 3: those things seem like very accessible and very easy. Or

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Speaker 3: for someone who feels as though they're struggling with all

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Speaker 3: of those things you just talked about a morning routine

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Speaker 3: and finding more sleep, it's like, yeah, but where do

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Speaker 3: I begin?

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Speaker 1: You just choose one thing, Like you honestly, just choose

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Speaker 1: one thing and try and stick to that.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people are.

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Speaker 1: Like, you choose one thing and you stick to it,

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Speaker 1: bit stick to it for thirty days, or you stick

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Speaker 1: to it for ninety days. Like I'm not an expert

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Speaker 1: in that way, but I have found that when I

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Speaker 1: look back on when I have felt my best and

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Speaker 1: involved some sort of morning fitness, and you start small,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's thirty minutes, forty five minutes, twenty minutes, just

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Speaker 1: not feeling like rushed in the morning, and so waking

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Speaker 1: up a little bit earlier to have the time to

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Speaker 1: go through that morning routine and just being cognizant of

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Speaker 1: when I haven't been doing those things how I feel

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Speaker 1: versus when I do do those things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think such a big part of that.

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Speaker 3: I love the tip that you offered about starting small.

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Speaker 3: A really big part of this when you say like

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Speaker 3: notice is also maybe like actually making note right, because

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Speaker 3: if you don't have the time or like the know

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Speaker 3: how maybe to reflect on how you're feeling in all

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Speaker 3: of the different phases, whether it's when you're sticking with

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Speaker 3: something or you're completely off of the bandwagon, then you

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Speaker 3: won't really realize how it's truly making you feel. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I have learned for me personally that like I'm

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Speaker 1: a planners. You know, I'm a planner, So I like

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Speaker 1: to write down the workout in the morning. I like

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Speaker 1: to block off the chunk of time I've realized for

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Speaker 1: me like, working out for me in the morning is

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Speaker 1: great because I feel like I'm giving myself something before

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Speaker 1: I turn myself over to the team and everyone else

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Speaker 1: who will want a piece, you know, later in the day.

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Speaker 1: And so just honestly just being cognizant of that, writing

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Speaker 1: it down, planning ahead the way you would plan anything.

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Speaker 3: Else in your life. Yeah, a meeting with yourself for you,

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Speaker 3: I know that. And as you've like kind of pointed

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Speaker 3: out the things that make you feel most like you

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Speaker 3: the best in your body have a lot to do

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Speaker 3: with health and wellness. Talk to me about what your

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Speaker 3: relationship has been with wellness over the years as you

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Speaker 3: have stepped into arguably bigger roles within your career.

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Speaker 1: I recently realized that I've hit my ten year running anniversary,

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Speaker 1: my runniversary, thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, I was working at Glamour and I

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Speaker 1: decided that I wanted to run. I wanted to achieve

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Speaker 1: a goal that had nothing to do with work. I

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Speaker 1: had like that was what I wanted to give myself,

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Speaker 1: and so I set out and I was like, why

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Speaker 1: don't I run a half marathon? And then that turned

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Speaker 1: into you know, all of the stuff that comes around

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Speaker 1: like sort of running half marathon, so weightlifting and plates

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Speaker 1: and yoga and all of the things. And it was

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Speaker 1: mostly because you know, growing up, a lot of like

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Speaker 1: achievement and success was always tied to work or tied

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Speaker 1: to school, and I wanted something out of that. And

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Speaker 1: so my relationship to fitness and running specifically has you know,

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Speaker 1: ebbdom flowed. But I always come back to running. I

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Speaker 1: always come back to running. I think it's the one

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Speaker 1: thing that you know. You ask any runner around, They're like,

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Speaker 1: it's the it's the free workout, Like you just need

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Speaker 1: a pair of shoes and you can lace up and

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Speaker 1: do it anywhere, which is true. And running has given

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Speaker 1: me so much. It's taken me around the world. We

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Speaker 1: were talking about Tokyo earlier. I went on a running

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Speaker 1: trip to Tokyo, which is amazing, and I've run half

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Speaker 1: marathons in Paris and it's just a great way to

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Speaker 1: sight see run all over Milan. And so I'll always

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Speaker 1: come back to running. But I think as I also

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Speaker 1: get older, I've realized that I need to incorporate some

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Speaker 1: other things into the practice, into the wellness programming, which

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Speaker 1: is where like weightlifting and pilates has come in recently.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you remember how it felt when you made

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Speaker 3: this decision for yourself to tackle such a big, scary, hairy,

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Speaker 3: audacious goal.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I've never thought I couldn't finish something, So the setting

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Speaker 1: the goal and getting out there has always been the

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Speaker 1: easy part, honestly, because I've always known that if I

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Speaker 1: needed to walk, I could walk. If I needed to run,

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Speaker 1: I could run. And really just we talk about running

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Speaker 1: your own race a lot, and running and really just

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Speaker 1: sticking to that has been really I think helpful in running,

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Speaker 1: but has also informed sort of how I operate and

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Speaker 1: move like outside of running, And so when I set

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Speaker 1: the goal, it didn't seem crazy or scary. Breaking two

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Speaker 1: hours and a half marathon does seem crazy and scary,

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Speaker 1: which is probably why I haven't done it yet.

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Speaker 3: Niki has been on breaking two quest like for ten years.

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Speaker 3: It's the best though, Like everyone, it's cheering. I am

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Speaker 3: so cheering you on to do this breaking too. You know.

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Speaker 3: It's so funny because as you were saying, this like

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Speaker 3: really does inform the other aspects of your life. As

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Speaker 3: you were talking about, I have always believed that I

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Speaker 3: could run my own race. I believe that that is

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Speaker 3: a hard mentality to take on because of the nature

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Speaker 3: of the highlight reel, of the comparison trap that we

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Speaker 3: so many of us fall into. And it really does

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Speaker 3: reflect when you were talking earlier about work and you're saying, like,

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Speaker 3: I don't really care how people feel about me. Now, okay,

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Speaker 3: so I don't really care how people feel about me

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Speaker 3: at work. I don't really care what anybody else thinks

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Speaker 3: about me running this marathon, Like I'm going to be

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Speaker 3: able to do what I want to do. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to be able to do my own race. For always

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Speaker 3: that hear this and have like a maybe an envy

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Speaker 3: over your perspective, Any tips, tricks, thoughts on how to

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Speaker 3: inform them to maybe get to a place where they

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Speaker 3: feel a little bit more comfortable about running their own race.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's what you said.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people only share the highlights on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: or they only share they only tell you the good parts.

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Speaker 1: So I think one thing to remember is that the

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Speaker 1: other people are going through hardships as well, and they

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Speaker 1: are showing only their highlights, but they may not be

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Speaker 1: showing their pitfalls. And I think knowing for me at

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Speaker 1: least knowing that other people are going through things, Knowing

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Speaker 1: that other people are having pitfalls like makes me a

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Speaker 1: little comfortable with my own. Knowing that I don't have

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Speaker 1: to be perfect and no one else has to be

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Speaker 1: perfect has really helped me sort of come into my own.

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Speaker 1: I think the other thing that I've really been thinking

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Speaker 1: about a lot recently, especially as I became editor in chief,

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Speaker 1: is in a question I get often is like, was

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Speaker 1: this a goal for you? And it's never been about

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Speaker 1: the goal. It's been about always loving the process. So

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Speaker 1: my favorite moments when it comes to working out or

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Speaker 1: when it comes to running is the process. It's the

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Speaker 1: group runs, it's the seeing like going for a coffee

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Speaker 1: run with a friend, taking the Rumble class together with

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Speaker 1: you know. In community, it's never been about the end goal.

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Speaker 1: It's always been and especially when in work, in the

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Speaker 1: work process, it's always been about like loving to throw

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Speaker 1: headlines around with people, getting really excited about like seeing

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Speaker 1: several people are chatting, several people are typing in the

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Speaker 1: slack room, like that stuff really excites me. The process

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Speaker 1: really excites me. And then the goal is just sort

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Speaker 1: of like what happens at the end of it.

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Speaker 3: I was having a really beautiful discussion with Natalie Kuhn

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Speaker 3: from the class about getting to a place where we

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Speaker 3: realize that the outcome is not a reflection on who

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Speaker 3: it is that we are challenging. Right. But the thing

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Speaker 3: is is that if you're doing the best you can

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Speaker 3: with the process, then like, why are we going to

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Speaker 3: judge ourselves when and that is truly what's happening, right.

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Speaker 3: You can't let feeling overtake fact. And so when you

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Speaker 3: talk about community and you talk about being able to

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Speaker 3: do what you love with other people, it's easier to

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Speaker 3: kind of take stock or inventory about what's happening around

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Speaker 3: you enjoying the process because you have other people to

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Speaker 3: kind of sail the ship with. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, as we were joking, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: have been trying to break two for the last ten years.

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Speaker 1: If it really has destroyed had destroyed me, I would

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Speaker 1: have stopped running totally, you know. But there's something that

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Speaker 1: brings me back. And honestly, the breaking too is not

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Speaker 1: what brings me back. It's the process. It's the knowing

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Speaker 1: that I set a day and I put my mind

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Speaker 1: to something and I'm going to do it. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to execute on it.

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Speaker 4: Maybe a little.

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Speaker 1: Messy, but like I'll, I'll get it done and I

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Speaker 1: can there are friends that I can tap into when

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Speaker 1: I need help. All of that stuff is like the

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Speaker 1: good stuff. The race is just like what happens at

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Speaker 1: the end.

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Speaker 3: Of it, you know. Taking a break from today's episode

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00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,360
Speaker 3: to talk to you about my sponsor at Element Elements,

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412
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417
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Speaker 3: the time, especially as I'm fueling these longer runs leading

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00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 3: up to the Tokyo Marathon. I drink Element about thirty

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00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 3: to sixty minutes before I head out the door, and

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00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,760
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Speaker 3: We're talking about community here, and something that I have

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00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 3: always admired about you professionally is that it's very clear

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Speaker 3: that the woman that you surround yourself, you're all like

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Speaker 3: on the rising tide. It's that like you have been

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Speaker 3: able to dial in and find this really excellent group

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Speaker 3: of women who have worked very hard in the career,

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Speaker 3: and I feel like it's like I'll see one of

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Speaker 3: you succeed and then like literally it's no surprise that

438
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 3: the next day, like someone else has a really big moment.

439
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 3: Talk to me about how it feels to have such

440
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 3: an established group of peers that have become your friends.

441
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: Having such an established group of peers who have become

442
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: my friends has been such a blessing to me. I

443
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: have always said that I never want to be the

444
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: smartest person in the room. So the reason that I

445
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: am surrounded by such amazing people is because they are

446
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: like pioneers or they are the smartest people who I

447
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: can surround myself with and I can learn from them.

448
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: I feel like they're you know, we have our cup

449
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: and it's always filled when I walk away from a

450
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 1: conversation with them. I think it's really important to not

451
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 1: be the smartest person in the room and to always

452
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: be able to learn from somebody. And so when I

453
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: look at the past places I've worked, it's a blessing, honestly,

454
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: like to be able to be good friends with somebody

455
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: like Sally Holmes, who's the editor in chief of in Style,

456
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: or you know, to count Leiachernikov and Samir Nasser as

457
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: like friends and colleagues and peers at bizarre like it

458
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: kind of blows my mind sometimes, but it also makes

459
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: sense because they are truly some of the smartest women

460
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: that I know.

461
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 3: Aside from the great level of intellect of these individuals,

462
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: what would you say is a characteristic or something that

463
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: you look for when you're like, oh, this person and me,

464
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: like we're going to jive really well.

465
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: I would say that in all of the women sort

466
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: of that I surround myself with, you know, you included.

467
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: There is a pursuit of excellence which I one hundred percent,

468
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: one thousand percent respect. You may not achieve, you know,

469
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: every single goal on the mark, but there is a

470
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: pursuit of excellence that I really really respect. There's a curiosity,

471
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 1: there is an ability to give of yourself and be

472
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: willing to ask for others to give to you as well.

473
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 3: There's a vulnerability there that's challenging.

474
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: Extremely, extremely But I remember or I saw you at

475
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: some point after the pandemic, like recently after the pandemic.

476
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 3: And you were like how are you? And I was

477
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 3: like not great?

478
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: And you were like same, not great. And to just

479
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: have that moment where when you ask how are you

480
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: and it's like really, how are you? Yeah, that's special, Yeah,

481
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: it's special.

482
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 3: And it's indicative that there is in that in sense,

483
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: a mutual feeling of safety. I think that there's just

484
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 3: so much going on in our day to day that

485
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 3: it's super understandable when someone's walking around and feeling as

486
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 3: though the only way they can answer that how are

487
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 3: you doing question is with good I mean, I feel

488
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 3: like probably ninety two percent of the time, that's the

489
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 3: answer that you get because everyone is so busy just

490
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 3: trying to handle that their own shit that they don't

491
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 3: want to get to this place, like you said before,

492
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 3: where you actually answer that question, you feel the tears

493
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: walling up and everything is going crazy. You're like, I'm

494
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 3: just trying to keep my shit together over here, which

495
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 3: is a great answer. Yeah, honestly, and more people should say.

496
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: It, because I think there's something just arming about that, unarming, disarming, disarming,

497
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: disarming about that. There's something that is obviously taps into

498
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: vulnerability and when you were vulnerable, and that affords other

499
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: people the opportunity to be the same.

500
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 3: Yeah. I want to dial back to how you were

501
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 3: speaking on having not seen many other black women in

502
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 3: roles like the one that you currently hold. Let's bring

503
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 3: it to when you really got started in editorial. Did

504
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 3: you at that time feel the same way?

505
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: When I started an editorial, there were not a lot

506
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: of black people people of color in these roles, especially

507
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: at the brands that I had worked at.

508
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 4: So at Vanity fair in Style was like the outlier.

509
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: Actually it was like surprisingly diverse, but Vanity fair Ell

510
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: glamour like I was one of a handful, one of

511
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: like a couple, and so I think, in part, you

512
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: can't really be what you don't see. So I saw

513
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people in like high like high fashion roles,

514
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: you know, the market directors or the senior market editor,

515
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: those sorts of roles. But the executive editor who's the

516
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: number two with the brand, never saw that. Editor in

517
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: chief never saw that unless it was at a place

518
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: like Jet Ebony Essence, and so I never really thought

519
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: that it was an option. And I think in thinking

520
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: about becoming in becoming editor in chief recently, I think

521
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 1: about like this cohort of women who are in their

522
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, mid forties right now, who were just skipped over.

523
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: They just never got the opportunity to become the executive editor,

524
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: to become the editor in chief. And that feels simultaneously unfair,

525
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: but it also puts a bit of a battery in

526
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: my back to want to do better and want to

527
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: open up opportunities for people that are following me.

528
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, what tools or maybe like what mindset did you

529
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 3: have to adopt to get out of your own way, because,

530
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: as you said, oftentimes you didn't feel like you could

531
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 3: be her because you didn't see her, So there had

532
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: to be an internal dialogue going on that empowered you

533
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 3: to step into the potential that you knew that you had.

534
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 4: Well, honestly, it came from other people saying, you can

535
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 4: do this.

536
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 3: I believe in you.

537
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: You can do this, and I'd be like, I don't know,

538
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: it feels like a big job, and they're like, that's fine,

539
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: you can do it. It's like okay, well in a

540
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: nonchalant way as well, Like I had a lot of

541
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: people around me who were kind of like, you.

542
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 3: Could be you could be an editor in chief obviously. Yeah.

543
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, what do you mean obviously like and they're like, no, yeah,

544
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: of course you can do that.

545
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: Of course you can be digital director.

546
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: It's and not to say that the job's not hard,

547
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: but it's not like it's not rocket.

548
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 4: Science, but yeah, you can do it.

549
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know. It's interesting though, because earlier in our

550
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 3: conversation you even said, like, I remember I was sitting

551
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: in the room and I was thinking, I can do that.

552
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 3: I can do that. I can do that. But sometimes

553
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: we do understandably need someone else to say something that

554
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: could even be literally right in front of our face.

555
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 1: Right and can be the trigger to you thinking you

556
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: can do that. So when somebody sell tells me that

557
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: I can do something, I'm more likely to be like.

558
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 4: Maybe I can.

559
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 3: I feel like there's a conversation pending here about how

560
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,479
Speaker 3: to be your most confident self. And I mean, listen,

561
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that like I'm an expert, but I

562
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: do think that you and I both have had these

563
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 3: moments where you kind of have to put your big

564
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 3: girl pants on and like put down the wine glass

565
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 3: and say like, all right, I'm ready to do what

566
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: I need to do.

567
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 4: One hundred percent.

568
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: And I think you know, you get ready to do

569
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: what you're going to do, and then in doing it,

570
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: you know that you're either going to win and you're

571
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: going to fail. And if you fail, then you learn

572
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: from those failures that you don't you can't let them

573
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: define you because that'll just take you out, right, But

574
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: you have the day or two where you're like, damn,

575
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: that really sucked and you.

576
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 3: Just got to keep going. Yeah, it's that growth versus

577
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 3: the fixed mindset. I think also sometimes it's about maybe

578
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: leaping before you feel as though you're ready again going

579
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: to that fact versus feeling thing, big decisions, big moments.

580
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 3: It's very rarely that you're going to walk up to

581
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 3: that and think, I am so ready for this, Like

582
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,719
Speaker 3: this is entirely my race, my meeting, my promotion, my whatever.

583
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: But if you're constantly in this place of waiting, then

584
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: the only thing that's happening, most likely is that you're

585
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 3: standing in your own way to whatever it is that

586
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: you want.

587
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: Yes, and my other sort of like while you're sort

588
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: of you know, waiting, quote unquote, I would say that

589
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: you just need to be as prepared as possible. And

590
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: so that is something that like running has really taught me,

591
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: Like you can step up to that starting line at

592
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: the race and be like, I don't know, I don't

593
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: know how it's going to go today, but you have

594
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: your fourteen weeks, your twelve eight weeks of training in

595
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: your back pocket, and so you just have to trust

596
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: your training. Don't know how the race is going to go,

597
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: but you have to have faith in the work that

598
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: you've done to get to this point. It's worked for

599
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: me in running, and it continues to work for me

600
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: in my career.

601
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: Something I started adopting early last year was not only

602
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: that smart goals framework, but also this other acronym called aim,

603
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 3: and AIM stands for acceptable, ideal, and minimum. So you

604
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: can have a goal, say you just mentioned running, I

605
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: want to run a five k in thirty minutes. Okay,

606
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 3: you might feel like thirty minutes is a stretch, but

607
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: you can come up with these other benchmarks so you

608
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 3: can still kind of garner or set realistic expectations for yourself.

609
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: So acceptable is maybe running it in thirty two minutes,

610
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 3: Ideal is thirty or below, and minimum would be like

611
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 3: in between of those two numbers. So it's like I

612
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: can recognize that I am capable of this thing, and

613
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: depending on the day, X might happen, why might happen,

614
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 3: but whatever happens here, I still know that I can

615
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 3: go after this goal and quote unquote succeed. I think

616
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: it's really challenging sometimes when you're trying to put your

617
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 3: big girl proverbial pants on to get to this point

618
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 3: where you can truly understand that that failure air quotes

619
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 3: as always is happening for you. You know, we don't

620
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: work hard for things not to go as we'd hoped.

621
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: I think that's like one of the biggest themes that

622
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: I talk about on the show, but in reality, whatever

623
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 3: happens is an opportunity for you to then be informed

624
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: and then figure out how you're going to move forward.

625
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 3: And in that execution of moving forward is up to

626
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 3: you to bring those lessons with you, because if you don't,

627
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: then you're the only one that's gonna, you know, be

628
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: at a disadvantage for it.

629
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely and whether you I mean, this is the one

630
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: thing I will say that has sort of been interesting

631
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: and working on digital, you have to put out so

632
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: much content. You have to put out so many stories, instagrams, videos.

633
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: Not everything is going to be a hit. Not everything

634
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: is going to get the likes you want. Not everything's

635
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: going to get the you know, the clicks, the sessions,

636
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: the views. But you learn from everything. There are so

637
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: many learnings that you can take from every single piece

638
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: of content or whatever that you put up, you create.

639
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: And if you're not taking those learnings, if you're not

640
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: taking understanding why something worked, why it didn't work, Like,

641
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: what's the point?

642
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the point? You know. One of the reasons

643
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: I was really excited to have you in here, besides

644
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 3: using it as an excuse for us to hang out

645
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 3: for an hour, was really for us to talk a

646
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: little bit about your career because I think it does

647
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 3: shed some light both on just the industry as a whole,

648
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: but also it's always fun for me to wrap oro

649
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: out this stuff as a fellow journalist. So we've talked

650
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: a little bit about the transition for you from print

651
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 3: to digital now living in like what this digital ecosystem

652
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: is today, which is something that completely has changed the game.

653
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: How has that transition been for you? Because you have

654
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 3: lived so many different lives within this industry. I have

655
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: in a lot of lives in the last three years.

656
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: I was telling a friend that, like I generally stay

657
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: at a job for like, you know, three four years.

658
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: It just so happened during the pandemic that I like

659
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: bounced around a lot. You know, I'm happy to be

660
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: back at Mary Clare and doing print and digital and

661
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, all of the things because it's sort of

662
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: is a culmination of, you know, everything I've been working

663
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: on in the past. You know, the job is massive,

664
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: but it fills me in a bunch of different ways

665
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: every day, and so that's that's been great.

666
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 3: When you say we have to churn out a lot,

667
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 3: shed some light on what a lot looks like I

668
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: want to give I want to give the hurdlers a

669
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 3: better understanding of what it means to do a lot.

670
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: On the website alone, we're probably putting out and I say,

671
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: we have a fantastic team of about twelve fifteen. We're

672
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: hiring in new roles, but we're putting out about five

673
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: hundred stories a month and doing We're posting on Instagram

674
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: four times a day, We're posting on TikTok twice a day,

675
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: once a day, we are posting on we have our

676
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: video arm.

677
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 4: We're getting into live events.

678
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: We're taking market meetings and you know, doing interviews and

679
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 1: all of the things. I'm working on a podcast, Like,

680
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: there's so many pieces of content that come into creating

681
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 1: a brand these days.

682
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 3: So it is a lot. Yeah, we're getting into live events,

683
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 3: me writes, Note Marie Claire is getting into live events.

684
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 3: Me follow up and make me about Marie Claire live events.

685
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: What is any of that? Like? If I had to

686
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 3: ask you, which part of that makes me the most excited?

687
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 3: Do you have an answer? My newsletter is making me

688
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 3: really excited at your newsletter.

689
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: My newsletter self checkout is making me extremely excited. It

690
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: gets me back to what I really love about this

691
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: industry why I wanted to get into this industry in

692
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 1: the first place, which is just to talk about close

693
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: with my friends, and I have been trying to create

694
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: that sort of atmosphere with the newsletter. It comes out

695
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: every Saturday around two pm, and it's my weekly sort

696
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: of touch base with this community, and I talk about

697
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: everything from what I've been wearing to go on long

698
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: runs in the cold, to you know, the coats that

699
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: I'm loving this season, to Christmas gifts, to all sorts

700
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: of things. And it's been a nice sort of opportunity

701
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: for me to just do a bit of the writing

702
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: that I don't get to do much anymore.

703
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, as an editor in chief, again many iterations of

704
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 3: what you've done in your career, I want to talk

705
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 3: a little bit about the art of interviewing, something that

706
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 3: you've had to get to be very acquainted with when

707
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 3: it comes to executing a good interview. What comes to

708
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: mind for you?

709
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: Interviewing people is a strange sort of skill to have,

710
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: and I think very preliminary. It just starts with curiosity.

711
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: I'm consistently surprised by the lack of curiosity amongst a

712
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: lot of people I can go deep on like pretty

713
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: much anything, like you wanted to tell me about this

714
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: bike over here for the next fifteen minutes, I'd be like, Okay,

715
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: that's interesting, and I'll have fifteen more questions to ask

716
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: because I'm a genuinely curious person. And so I think

717
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: a successful interview just starts with being able to have

718
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: a good set of questions when you're going into the interview,

719
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: really doing the pre work that comes with an interview,

720
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: so watching their movies, reading their past interviews, to know

721
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: what they've talked about in the past, what they like

722
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: talking about, what they don't like talking about.

723
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 4: Interviewing, you kind of have.

724
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: To be ready also for it to sort of like

725
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: go off the rails and you got to bring it

726
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: back in, which is a delicate dance. But you have

727
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 1: to be a bit of a like a jockey almost

728
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 1: and like being able to like tame the horse back

729
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: in like bring the horse back on. Course, interviews can

730
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: be wild and they can be fun. You're not going

731
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: to kill them all. But I also think it is

732
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: just the of like the practice and genuinely wanting to

733
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: ask questions of people.

734
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 3: What do you think that interviewing has done for you

735
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 3: as a person.

736
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: What interviewing has done for me as a person is

737
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: it's just really opened up my eyes to just the art,

738
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: the art quote unquote of conversation and really just being

739
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: in conversation. It's made me a better listener. It's made

740
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: me more excited to just like hear what people have

741
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: to say. I can talk to anyone about anything.

742
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 3: I don't know.

743
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: I think it's fun. It's made me it's opened my world,

744
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: and it's just sort of like it's brought so much

745
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: to my life.

746
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 3: What has it taught you about other people that.

747
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 4: They love to talk about themselves.

748
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: It's really interviewing has really taught me that people love

749
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: to talk about themselves and they often don't ask questions

750
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: about you the interviewer or you know, the other person

751
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: on the other side of the conversation. And so I've

752
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: become cognizant of doing that when I'm in conversations. Yeah,

753
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: taking the second to be like how are you, how

754
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: is your weekend, and it not be a sort of

755
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: like cheesy, sort of Okay, I've done the first two

756
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: questions and so now we can move on. But really

757
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: just being cognizant of what it's like to be in

758
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: conversation with somebody.

759
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: Has it made you your sense of awareness more heightened

760
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 3: within your personal relationships? Yes, it actually has.

761
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: It's made me realize that I don't talk about myself

762
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: a lot, and then I'm often like.

763
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 4: Oh, it's fine, or yeah, that's fine.

764
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: Well just okay, that's like that's cool, or when somebody asks,

765
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: you know, often how I'm doing, I'm like, it's fine,

766
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: but how are you?

767
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 4: And what's going on in your life? And dah dah dah.

768
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: Because I'm so used to like the conversation not being

769
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 1: about me. It's always about the person on the other side.

770
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: And so I've tried to sort of give more of

771
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: myself in conversations and keep those conversations going rather than

772
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: just like giving a one word answer.

773
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: How do you give more of yourself when you're not

774
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 3: used to giving more of yourself?

775
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a practice, Like it really is a practice.

776
00:39:59,400 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 4: It's funny.

777
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: When I started dating my boyfriend, he gave a lot

778
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: of one word answers, and I'd always be like, you

779
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:05,919
Speaker 1: got to give me more?

780
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 3: What else?

781
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: And so just flipping that on myself and challenging myself

782
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: to give more to say, like what else when somebody

783
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: asked me something, how are you doing? Instead of saying fine,

784
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: maybe it's a sentence today yesterday was rough, but today

785
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: is better. Okay, So then that gives the other person

786
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: on the other side something to work with as well.

787
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 3: Can you give the girlies dating advice here, because can

788
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 3: we talk about the fact that like someone hears that

789
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 3: like he gave a lot of one word answers and

790
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 3: Niki's like, I'm persevering on this one.

791
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's the other thing that you just listen.

792
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: I have not dated in a while, I've not been

793
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: in this space in a while. It's rough out there.

794
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: I know that's the truth from friends who have told

795
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: me it's rough out there.

796
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 4: But I also.

797
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: See a lot of people who still have like weird

798
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: rules around dating. Oh they're like, I'm not going to

799
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: call that guy first, And it's like why if you

800
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: like him, you can tell him that. It's at the

801
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: very least it gets it off of your chest. Like

802
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: playing games never works, it's not helpful, so you might

803
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,240
Speaker 1: as well just cut to the chase.

804
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: Cut to the chase. But again, like this is just

805
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 3: like very clear that this is your stance like in

806
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 3: all things.

807
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 4: Some would say I'm blunt.

808
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 1: Some would say I don't suffer fools, and I haven't.

809
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 3: I'm you know.

810
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: I think it is a part of like just who

811
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: I am internally, and I guess it's sort of I

812
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know how I became this way.

813
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: I think I was in part a little bit born

814
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: this way, but also just sort of like I don't

815
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: have time to like sort of suffer fools, and I

816
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: never really have, so it sort of trickles into every

817
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: aspect of my life.

818
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 3: I don't have time to suffer fools. What a line

819
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: on that. Then back to the friendship note, I think

820
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 3: that a lot of individuals have a hard time, especially

821
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 3: as we get older, dialing into or having grace with

822
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: ourselves as we grow out of relationships. On that note,

823
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: so when it comes to maybe upholding your own boundaries

824
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 3: within the parameters of your time, what has worked well

825
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 3: with you in that regard.

826
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: I remember when I was entering into this industry and

827
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: sort of first moving to New York, my sister and

828
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: I were talking about something and she very casually was like,

829
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's not meant to come along for the

830
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: full ride, and I was like, Okay, that gives me

831
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 1: permission to release what's like not serving me, release people

832
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: who are not serving me, but also bring them back

833
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: if they were going through something and I don't know,

834
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: maybe they had to work it out over there, like

835
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 1: that's okay, come back to me when you're done. There's

836
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: always like there's a reason why I liked you in

837
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: the first place. There's boundaries are good and they're necessary,

838
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 1: but I also think that sometimes people are a little

839
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 1: too rigid with their boundaries and there's not an enough

840
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: sort of flexibility in understanding that other people have boundaries

841
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: and maybe they're not aligning with your boundaries right now,

842
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: but they could in the future and you should be

843
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: open to that.

844
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really challenging place to be in that

845
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 3: you want to have strong boundaries, but you also know

846
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: that in different seasons people may be going through different

847
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 3: things and to be able to make decisions that are

848
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 3: best for you without being rude, like you can be

849
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: firm but kind is literally like the biggest guiding principle

850
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 3: that I feel like I've adopted across the board from

851
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 3: my relationships to like the way that I do business.

852
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and you know, there's a lot of conversation about boundaries,

853
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: and there's be speaking all of that stuff, But ultimately

854
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: my sort of thought process behind all of the things

855
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: is like, are those boundaries or are you being an asshole?

856
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: Like ask yourself that are you just not being considerate?

857
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,720
Speaker 1: Are you not being kind because you have your own

858
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 1: boundaries and you think that your boundaries are more important

859
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: than another person's boundaries. Maybe perhaps, but like also you

860
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: could just be kind of being an asshole.

861
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. And now these days, as you

862
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 3: said before, your time feels like extremely, extremely limited. So

863
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: how do you exercise upholding your boundaries when it comes

864
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 3: to keeping your schedule?

865
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a process, that is something that is constantly

866
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: being and flowing and knowing. I think the one thing

867
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: that has been really helpful for me is knowing that

868
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: my schedule will change and no two days are going

869
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: to be the same. And once I've become comfortable with that,

870
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: then making sure that if working out is you know,

871
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: because working out is important to me, I get it

872
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: in somehow. So if I don't have time for a

873
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: full workout in the morning, then I'll take the twenty

874
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: minutes to walk to an appointment, and there's just a

875
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: bit of flexibility that serves me and has helped with

876
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: my schedule.

877
00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 4: Definitely.

878
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I uh as. We love to call it

879
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 3: a snack. If you want a snack, a Joe Holder

880
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 3: exercise snack, a Joe Holder exercise snack. And I think

881
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: it's an acceptance of that again, doing the best you

882
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 3: can with whatever is happening. It literally like with whatever

883
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 3: is happening, because if you have this idea in your

884
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 3: head that things have to be a certain way, whether

885
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 3: we're talking about exercise or we're talking about what I'm

886
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 3: going to do on my laptop, when you walk out

887
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 3: of here and you're not willing to pivot or like

888
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 3: flow with the day, then things are going to get

889
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 3: real hard.

890
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: Things are going to get incredibly hard. I mean my career.

891
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: For example, when I was at l I, I was like,

892
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't get this big job, and my

893
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: friend at GQ was hiring for somebody and I was like, oh,

894
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: go try that, Like why not? What is going to

895
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: stop me from going over there and trying that. Then

896
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 1: the pandemic hit and this job at Bazaar popped up,

897
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, I'll just go try that.

898
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: And there hasn't been a rigidity in like the roles

899
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: I have to have, the titles I have to have.

900
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 1: It's been more so of like what do I want

901
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: my process and progress to look like in this stage

902
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 1: of my life, and then when that's not serving me

903
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: anymore or when I'm over that, I'll just go do

904
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: this other thing over there. Like my career has been

905
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: a bit of a jungle gym, I would say, where

906
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: I'm like swinging from bar to bar.

907
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 4: But have I guess achieved the top a bit of

908
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 4: the top.

909
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 3: We're at the top part that looks like the castle,

910
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 3: like looking down on all of the wood chips. Yeah.

911
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 3: When you reflect on this career that you've had, which

912
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 3: is nowhere near over yet, and you if I ask

913
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 3: you to articulate what the maybe biggest quote unquote failure

914
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 3: was for you and how that made you feel at

915
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:45,839
Speaker 3: the time, what would you say?

916
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: I think when I was starting off in my career

917
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: going from Vanity Fair where I was in I was

918
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: a closet assistant, so basically I had to manage somebody's

919
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: schedule and I had to help sort of like funnel

920
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: samples from place to place.

921
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 4: I was horrible at that job.

922
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 1: I was really bad, I think in part because honestly,

923
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 1: I didn't really care about it that much. I think

924
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: that I and that taught me that I have to

925
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: if I'm going to do a job, I have to

926
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: like it and care about it and be somewhat passionate

927
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 1: about it. Otherwise I'm just not good at it. I

928
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: don't put my all into it. And so that was

929
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: sort of like my learning. We've talked about like takeaways.

930
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: That was my takeaway from that job. But I was

931
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: so bad at it, and being bad at something was

932
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 1: just like horrible.

933
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 3: Did that make you feel that, like editorial as a

934
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: whole was questionable for you?

935
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: It made me feel like the fashion industry was questionable

936
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: for me for sure. I was like, I don't know

937
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: if I fit in with these people. I think I'm amazing,

938
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: so I don't know why these people don't see it.

939
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: It made me question, like, you know, is this the

940
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 1: industry for me? At one point, I was like, maybe

941
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: I'll go back to I'll go to JA school. Like

942
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: I remember printing out papers and thinking like maybe I'll

943
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: go to Central Saint Martin's for grad school.

944
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 4: I don't know.

945
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: And then I got a job as the style editor

946
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: at Glamour, working on the website, and that's when I

947
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: found my people, and that's when I realized, Okay, this

948
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: is what the fashion industry can be. Maybe I'm not

949
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: meant to work in high high fashion because I don't

950
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: really care about it that much. But I do like

951
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: talking about clothing. I do like talking about personal style,

952
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 1: suggesting things for people, and that's the that's the area

953
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 1: that I'll go in in the fashion industry.

954
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 3: Right, So, like every different turn informed how you took

955
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 3: the next one. Absolutely, would you say that this current

956
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 3: situation is the proudest moment thus far in your career

957
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 3: or do you have a different answer to that question.

958
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 4: I haven't really thought about it, Honestly.

959
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: I don't like, sure, yes, this is a great moment

960
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: for my career, but like, this can't be it.

961
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 3: Right, it can't. You have to be like right, Like,

962
00:48:58,880 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 3: this can't be it.

963
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: So there will be other moments, and so I think

964
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: for me, just taking it as not necessarily a stepping stone,

965
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: but just taking it as like another sort of like

966
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 1: moment in my work history.

967
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I ask you that because I feel as though

968
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 3: it can be one of those highlight reel questions.

969
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 2: It can be like one of those highlight reel assumptions.

970
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 3: Someone sees everything that you've done, the amazing travels that

971
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 3: you take in, and then the post where Nikki Oganaki

972
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 3: is now the editor in chief of Marie Clare and

973
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: it's like, wow, talk about being at the top of

974
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 3: the jungle gym castle, right, But there's so much that

975
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 3: happens that's not on the real that like is extremely impactful.

976
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: Extremely impactful. There are so many great moments, you know.

977
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: I look back at like what I've been able to accomplish,

978
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: the people I've worked with at all of these jobs

979
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: that I've had in the past, the people I've met,

980
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: and that is the fun part for me. Like being

981
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: an editor in chief is an amazing job and I

982
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 1: am so thankful for it. The lead up to it, though,

983
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: has been really fantastic as well.

984
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a wild ride, you know. I think

985
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 3: a younger version of myself would say my proudest career

986
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 3: moment was like when Hurdle got in the New York

987
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 3: Times and like, yes, that was cool, and of course,

988
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 3: like I did do things that then in turn had

989
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 3: someone contact me and put it there but realistically speaking,

990
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 3: like I just got lucky, Like that was just like

991
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 3: a lucky thing that happened. Right. So then if I

992
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 3: really reflect and think about like what my hard work

993
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 3: has afforded me, I'd say like probably one of my

994
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 3: proudest moments in my career was like the day I

995
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 3: signed a least from my own two bedroom. Absolutely, you know,

996
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 3: like that's kind of like what I think about now.

997
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 3: And it's just because I'm like a more evolved person now,

998
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 3: I have a broader understanding of what the work that

999
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 3: I put in every day, the small stuff and the

1000
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 3: big stuff, is able to afford me, not just actually

1001
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 3: things of course, but like what it enables me to

1002
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 3: do as I move forward. Yeah, And I think also

1003
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 3: that like when it comes to where we want to go,

1004
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 3: this is where we're going to transition.

1005
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 2: Now, you said like this can't be it.

1006
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 3: But sometimes when you feel as though like you're at

1007
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 3: the mountaintop, you're like, well, what happens next?

1008
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 4: Oh, all the time, I had a moment. I can't

1009
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 4: remember where it was.

1010
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: I had a moment though where I was looking around

1011
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: me and there are a lot of sort of senior

1012
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: fashion editor market director roles which is the top of

1013
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: the fashion department, and I never really saw what happened

1014
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: after or you have these editor in chiefs and then

1015
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: they kind of just disappear into the ether and you

1016
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: don't really hear from them again. You don't know what

1017
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: they're doing, and so that is sort of scary because

1018
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: there is a moment where you're like, this can't be

1019
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: my last job, but like, what does life look like

1020
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: after an editor in chief?

1021
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 4: I don't know, someone start a blog and tell me

1022
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 4: about it.

1023
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think what's awesome is like that's kind

1024
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 3: of up to you in that what do you want

1025
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 3: it to look like?

1026
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 2: What excites you? What do you want to work on?

1027
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 3: What opportunities can you I remember when I got let

1028
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 3: go from self, I started pitching like entirely new roles

1029
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 3: to existing companies that like weren't like a thing I

1030
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 3: just thought about, Like I like your company, I know

1031
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,359
Speaker 3: what I'm capable of doing. This is like maybe why

1032
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 3: you should hire me, and like this is the job

1033
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 3: I would propose. And I had conversations that literally went

1034
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 3: on like it wasn't just like you're crazy, it was like, well,

1035
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 3: if I'm going to be crazy anyway, Like I might

1036
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 3: as well try to do something for myself. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely,

1037
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 3: but shit is wild. Yeah.

1038
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 1: And for me graduating from college, as I said in

1039
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, half of these jobs didn't exist.

1040
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: So being a digital director when I graduated from college

1041
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: like barely existed. Yeah, So that's sort of informed how

1042
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: I operate in my career because I don't know what's coming.

1043
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: So when people are like, what's your five year plan,

1044
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have a five year plan

1045
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: because something could be on the horizon that didn't even

1046
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 1: exist one year ago.

1047
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 3: Right for someone else who hears that and thanks to themselves,

1048
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 3: I also don't have a five year plan. What advice

1049
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 3: do you have to offer them? Because I think that

1050
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 3: generally speaking, the conventional thought is that you're wrong for

1051
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 3: not having that set in place.

1052
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: I would say, think about the lifestyle that you want

1053
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: to live. So do you want to travel more, do

1054
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: you want to work steady hours? Do you want to

1055
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: be home at more for your kid at night or

1056
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 1: in the morning, and really trying to find a job

1057
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: or something that fits into that sort of like lifestyle

1058
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 1: rather than warping your lifestyle to fit around a job.

1059
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 3: What excites Nikki. Right now, what excites me right now?

1060
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 4: What I mean?

1061
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: So many things excite me right now. I'm training for

1062
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: a half marathon, so that's exciting. It's frustrating and humbling

1063
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: at every turn, but that's exciting to like go out

1064
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: and do eight miles and like kill it.

1065
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 4: Wow, that's amazing.

1066
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: We're going into fashion weeks soon, so that's always exciting

1067
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: and tiresome and fun and fabulous. That is like, actually,

1068
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: a very fabulous part of my job is fashion Week.

1069
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: It is as great as it looks on the internet.

1070
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: It is a very cool part of my job. And

1071
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: so getting to do that every six months is so special.

1072
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very excited about Paris and Milan, just Paris,

1073
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 3: just Paris. Yeah, so I'm excited. I'm excited to just

1074
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 3: do Paris.

1075
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: I'm excited to go to Paris for six days and

1076
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: get to see some really beautiful clothing.

1077
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 3: And when you do something like that, again like pulling

1078
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 3: back the curtain a little bit, can you just like

1079
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 3: talk broadly about the experience for those that are uninformed.

1080
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: Sure, So Paris fashion week is or I should say

1081
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: fashion month in general. We talk about fashion week, but

1082
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: it really is a month of shows across New York, London,

1083
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: Milan in Paris, and a lot of it is going

1084
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: to these shows and taking in what the designers are designing,

1085
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: but also looking at the trends that are popping up

1086
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: across various runways. What excites me and what I love

1087
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: to see is the street style and what people are

1088
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: wearing in real life to these shows, how people are

1089
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 1: adopting the various trends that they have seen. If there's

1090
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: a bit of a back to school moment, so that's

1091
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: always lovely to see friends again. But the process, like

1092
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: through and through, you spend a lot of time going

1093
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: from place to place seeing these shows and then sort

1094
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 1: of doing a download with your team on the trends

1095
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: that you think are important that you want to get behind,

1096
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: the new designers that you want to support, and then

1097
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: creating the content from there.

1098
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so who pays for it?

1099
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: I do or the company? The company pays for mine.

1100
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: Let me tell you I do not have the influencer experience.

1101
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 1: Yours not flying me journalistically because whatever, but they are

1102
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: also you know, right, it's very interesting when I look

1103
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: at the landscape now of who is in these shows

1104
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: and what the front row is looking like editors, influencers, buyers.

1105
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: There are so many different types of people in that room.

1106
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: But the biggest difference that I have seen is that

1107
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: there's a respect for digital editors and there's a respect

1108
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 1: for influencers that was not there ten years ago.

1109
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 3: And when it comes to getting dressed for these shows,

1110
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:04,240
Speaker 3: how does that work?

1111
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of everything. Sometimes people will give

1112
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: you things, sometimes people will loan you things. I in

1113
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: the last few years have really gotten into wearing my

1114
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: own clothes, which seems silly, but you can get caught

1115
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 1: up in the like wanting to put on a costume

1116
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: to be or what I deem a costume, So dressing

1117
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: as you wouldn't normally dressed to want to be photographed

1118
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: by the photographers, you know, when you're walking into shows

1119
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: or doing the street style. And so I dress myself.

1120
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just feel comfortable in my days of six

1121
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 3: days of outfits.

1122
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 4: There's a lot of outs Oh my god, thirty days

1123
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 4: of outfits.

1124
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted by the end of the month because you

1125
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: really are just cognizant of like you're walking to a show,

1126
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: there are forty photographers at any given time.

1127
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, what do I look crazy right now? Like

1128
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 3: I'm I really struggle with that, Like just I went

1129
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 3: through a really I went through a period of time

1130
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 3: where I felt this is though, I was holding myself

1131
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 3: back because I didn't like it when other people had

1132
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: control of like my image. And I recognize in you know,

1133
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 3: what I call my good to great era, that I

1134
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 3: can't get to great if I'm so concerned of what

1135
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 3: other people are capturing of me. Right, Like, I have

1136
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 3: an opportunity to do so much good, and that good

1137
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 3: hinges on likely like my availability and whatnot. And so

1138
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 3: it's just so interesting to me to think about being

1139
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 3: in a scenario where like there's just literally forty cameras

1140
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 3: around me at any given moment.

1141
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: Right And you can get caught up in having all

1142
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 1: those cameras around you, or you can.

1143
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 4: Just be like I'm trying to do my job.

1144
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I want to go.

1145
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 1: I gotta get to this show, and so like get

1146
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: your flick. I'm gonna put my outfit on and I

1147
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: think it's great, Like yeah, so and so who's watching

1148
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,960
Speaker 1: on Instagram is probably gonna leave a shady comment, but like, okay, fine,

1149
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: you didn't like this one.

1150
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,959
Speaker 4: I liked it, so I gotta go sit and watch

1151
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 4: the show.

1152
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 3: Someone comes here Instagram NII. They see the editor in

1153
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 3: chief of Marie Claire dabbles and running sometimes got lots

1154
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 3: of cool fit checks. When you look in the mirror,

1155
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 3: what is it that you see looking back at you.

1156
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 1: When I look in the mirror, I see somebody who

1157
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: is a hard worker. They're a great friend, great sister,

1158
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:27,479
Speaker 1: great daughter, great partner. I see someone who is no

1159
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 1: nonsense but honestly is like softy on the inside.

1160
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I see.

1161
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: Somebody who's like really worked really hard to get to

1162
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: where she is and is proud of where she is.

1163
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 3: Right now, you have an opportunity to give yourself a

1164
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 3: piece of advice. Let's say, going back to that time

1165
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 3: where you were just starting out. You told me that

1166
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 3: that was one of the most difficult moments in your career,

1167
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 3: trying to figure out if you had made the right decision.

1168
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: Knowing what you know now, what would you tell yourself

1169
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 2: during that point.

1170
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 4: I would tell myself that this does not define you.

1171
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: Not getting this job, getting this job, hating this job,

1172
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: losing this story, none of it defines you.

1173
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 3: Find your worth outside of work, find your worth outside

1174
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 3: of work.

1175
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 4: What a joy.

1176
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 3: Always to have you and Nikki. For those that don't

1177
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 3: follow along with you just yet, give us your details.

1178
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 2: How can they keep up?

1179
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 3: Okay?

1180
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: You can follow me on all social platforms at nikki

1181
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:36,040
Speaker 1: ogouon og un, Subscribe to self, checkout Marie Claire's newsletter

1182
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: that comes out weekly, and be on the lookout for

1183
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 1: a podcast coming soon.

1184
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 3: Podcast coming soon. We love more podcasters. I'll link self

1185
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 3: checkout in the show notes. I'm over at Emily Body

1186
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,919
Speaker 3: and at Hurdle Podcast. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys

1187
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 3: next time? Do you want to say it? Another hurdle conquered.

1188
00:59:56,440 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time. You know