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Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us here on the Tuesday edition
Speaker 2: of Balance of Power. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington here
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Radio, on the satellite radio, and on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Where you can find us right now search Bloomberg Business
Speaker 2: News Live. We're standing by for our first briefing. We'll
Speaker 2: see what comes at one pm Eastern time, the White
Speaker 2: House Press Briefing with the new Press Secretary, Caroline Levitt.
Speaker 2: We'll bring you live into the briefing room to hear
Speaker 2: what the conversation is like, remembering, of course, Sean Spicer's
Speaker 2: famous first briefing in the first Trump administration. Folks are
Speaker 2: still licking their wounds. It goes on in Miami at Doral,
Speaker 2: the House Republican Retreat. As we told you yesterday, they
Speaker 2: were going down the slide into the swimming pool, dinner
Speaker 2: on the lawn last night and lunch. I guess right now,
Speaker 2: after some morning golf in the Donald J. Trump Grand Ballroom,
Speaker 2: they're holed up from nine to five to plot the future.
Speaker 2: We're told of President Trump's agenda and how to turn
Speaker 2: this all into legislation. We're going to talk about that
Speaker 2: in a moment with Jack Fitzpatrick, who's on Capitol Hill
Speaker 2: watching the appropriations process slowly unfold. But we add another
Speaker 2: layer here, and Jack has the story. As Donald Trump
Speaker 2: directs broad pausing in federal spending on loans and grants.
Speaker 2: He's stopping the money. This is tens of billions of
Speaker 2: dollars we're talking about, and it happens at five pm
Speaker 2: Eastern time, the administration directing all federal agencies to pause
Speaker 2: a broadswath of federal funding in what is seen as
Speaker 2: an opening shot here in the words of Jack Fitzpatrick,
Speaker 2: upcoming constitutional fight over his unilateral ability to stop funding
Speaker 2: here and just like that, the headline crosses the terminal.
Speaker 2: It's a good thing we've got Jack coming in Trump
Speaker 2: administration sued over halts of federal grant payments and it
Speaker 2: hasn't even happened yet. Jack, of course, is a specialist
Speaker 2: in appropriations covers Congress from Bloomberg Government and joins us
Speaker 2: right now from Capitol Hill. It's shifting under our feet, Jack,
Speaker 2: But I suspect you're not surprised to hear a headline
Speaker 2: like this.
Speaker 3: No, we expected lawsuits. The question I think is how
Speaker 3: many lawsuits or maybe how many plaintiffs in one lawsuit?
Speaker 3: And how likely is it that this move is the
Speaker 3: move that could go to the Supreme Court and really
Speaker 3: hash out a fundamental disagreement that President Trump has with
Speaker 3: certainly Democrats in Congress and realistically probably a lot of Republicans,
Speaker 3: because Trump believes he can unilaterally halt the flow of
Speaker 3: federal funds at least much more than what's dictated under
Speaker 3: current law. The law that they're fighting over is called
Speaker 3: the Impoundment Control Act. It was written during the Nixon
Speaker 3: administration because they had fights over him holding up congressionally
Speaker 3: approved spending, and Trump and his pick for Budget Director,
Speaker 3: Russell Vote, believe that the current understanding of restrictions on
Speaker 3: the president's power are, in their words, unconstitutional, and that
Speaker 3: he should get to pump the brakes on federal spending
Speaker 3: for his own reasons, not for programmatic delays, and because
Speaker 3: he's interpreting the law, but because of what he believes
Speaker 3: he should do as president. So it's a major legal battle,
Speaker 3: and the breadth of this order one will have a
Speaker 3: significant amount of a significant effect on a lot of money,
Speaker 3: but two raises a lot of legal questions and maybe
Speaker 3: the point that they debate in a lawsuit to settle
Speaker 3: that disagreement.
Speaker 2: Well, so we've got a lot here. Agencies, assuming this
Speaker 2: stands Jack have until the tenth of February to submit
Speaker 2: their plans on programs, projects, activities that will be subject
Speaker 2: to the Here you mentioned russ vote that is the
Speaker 2: same day feb ten that it's likely he'll be in
Speaker 2: the chair as director of OMB. This is one of
Speaker 2: the authors of Project twenty twenty five. Are there any
Speaker 2: breadcrumbs in that document? And I'll get all kinds of
Speaker 2: hate mail for bringing it up that might lead us
Speaker 2: to an understanding of what Vote wants to do.
Speaker 3: Well, when it comes to this, I don't even think
Speaker 3: you necessarily have to look at Project twenty twenty five
Speaker 3: because he has said in a number of formats that
Speaker 3: he thinks the president has greater power to stop spending
Speaker 3: than the status quo would dictate. So I think Project
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five gets into it. We also had a
Speaker 3: little bit of a preview in twenty nineteen the events
Speaker 3: that led to the first impeachment by the House of
Speaker 3: President Trump when he delayed Ukraine aid and of course
Speaker 3: later the Government Accountability Office said that was illegal, that
Speaker 3: was a violation of the Impounment Control Act. So there's
Speaker 3: a lot leading up to this. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: history that Russell Vote has indicating he wants to significantly
Speaker 3: change Washington's understanding of what the president can do without Congress.
Speaker 3: And part of that you can link to Project twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five. Part of that you can link to the
Speaker 3: first Trump administration and the first impeachment. And also he's
Speaker 3: said it on the record. He's told members in his hearings,
Speaker 3: his confirmation hearings in the Senate that he believes that
Speaker 3: the current restrictions are unconstitutional. So there's a lot to
Speaker 3: look at there, and it's clear that Vote is really
Speaker 3: the engine that drives the train that is this constitutional fight.
Speaker 2: So there you have it. This is why we talk
Speaker 2: to Jack now. Chuck Schumer calls this memo blatantly disobeying
Speaker 2: the law, and I want to just get to the
Speaker 2: Chewy Center here, if we can jack what it is
Speaker 2: the administration is actually trying to weed out, it's not
Speaker 2: just stopping spending. It's to align with what they're calling
Speaker 2: presidential priorities on immigration. On DEI, we already saw DEI
Speaker 2: offices closed. What is it actually that will create the
Speaker 2: criteria for whether these programs live or die?
Speaker 3: Well, this memo ordering the halt in funding is very,
Speaker 3: very broad. I think it's fair to say it's vague.
Speaker 3: It says that agencies need to pause funding and review
Speaker 3: if it comports or conflicts with all the other executive
Speaker 3: orders that have come out on issues like ending DEI practices.
Speaker 3: It does not spell out here's the kind of spending
Speaker 3: you should pause. When it says the kind of funding
Speaker 3: you should not pause, it just mentions a couple things.
Speaker 3: It says, don't pause Social Security funding, don't pause Medicare funding,
Speaker 3: and it broadly says some other funding that goes directly
Speaker 3: to recipients. But this could this could block funding that
Speaker 3: would not appear to be in conflict with other executive orders,
Speaker 3: but isn't exempt from this. So there's a concern that
Speaker 3: money for hospitals, money for heating, for low income people
Speaker 3: for firefighter grants, etc. Could be caught up in this
Speaker 3: because it's very, very broadly worded.
Speaker 2: Fascinating. How'd you like to be Jack Fitzpatrick trying to
Speaker 2: cover all of this? There are so many questions, there
Speaker 2: are not answers to all of them. Jack is Republican
Speaker 2: House members gather in Miami here. This is a two
Speaker 2: day retreat that we've been talking about at Doral. These
Speaker 2: are the guys you cover, specifically, the appropriation's minds who
Speaker 2: are together. They're trying to figure out how to manage reconciliation,
Speaker 2: what to do with the debt limit, how to make
Speaker 2: everybody happy, get Donald Trump's tax cuts and then tips
Speaker 2: over time and all the rest of it in there.
Speaker 2: What are you hearing? What are they talking about on
Speaker 2: the patio at Doral that they haven't been able to
Speaker 2: figure out already? We've been waiting for weeks and weeks
Speaker 2: for direction on this.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know if they're going to come out
Speaker 3: of this with a specific plan that's chiseled into concrete,
Speaker 3: but they are getting a little more clear their ambitions.
Speaker 3: My colleagues Ken Tran and mave she here down there
Speaker 3: and have reported one the Speaker of the House says
Speaker 3: they want to mark up the directions, basically the top
Speaker 3: line outline for a major reconciliation bill next week, so
Speaker 3: if they can get it together by next week, to
Speaker 3: at least say, here are the broad numbers, here's an
Speaker 3: assignment for each committee to work under, and say, here's
Speaker 3: how much you can add to the deficit. We want
Speaker 3: you to subtract this much from the deficit. It's not
Speaker 3: the bill itself, but it's a fairly heavy lift, and
Speaker 3: they want to get that done next week. They're still
Speaker 3: leaving a lot to the imagination with the specifics. It
Speaker 3: sounds like they're still going for one big, beautiful bill.
Speaker 3: As Republicans say, they still think they can get an
Speaker 3: almost unanimous vote on the debt limit through this reconciliation process.
Speaker 3: If that's politically realistic, you can have a whole debate
Speaker 3: about that. But they are kind of hitting the accelerator
Speaker 3: and saying we're going to get the first stages done
Speaker 3: by next week, which is ambitious to say the least.
Speaker 2: Boy I should say so, and we're going to be
Speaker 2: reading about it. With the help of Jack Fitzpatrick, reporting
Speaker 2: for Bloomberg Government, he's live on Capitol Hill right now,
Speaker 2: just waiting for the members to return.
Speaker 4: Jack.
Speaker 2: Great to see you and thank you so much. Find
Speaker 2: his story by the way on the pausing if we
Speaker 2: can use that word in federal funding and grants on
Speaker 2: the terminal and online. Great work from Jack Fitzpatrick as
Speaker 2: we turn our attention abroad. Coming up next the administration's
Speaker 2: approach to trade, the mini trade war, if we can
Speaker 2: call it that, that we had on Sunday, and the
Speaker 2: impact of tariff's. Donald Trump just updated his stance on this.
Speaker 2: Rob Waters is up next on Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
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Speaker 2: Great to have you with us on the Tuesday edition
Speaker 2: of Balance of Power. Yes, I'm Joe Matthew and Washington,
Speaker 2: where the headlines are flying not just here but Durral
Speaker 2: and we're connecting the dots between the two is Republican
Speaker 2: House members gather with Donald Trump and Florida. Donald Trump
Speaker 2: of course, making news on everything from tariffs to spending
Speaker 2: here in Washington as we try to get our arms
Speaker 2: around this. We just talked about it with Jack Fitzpatrick,
Speaker 2: our appropriations expert on Capitol Hill. Trump directing a broad
Speaker 2: pause in federal spending on loans and grants. We're talking
Speaker 2: about potentially here tens of billions of dollars, maybe hundreds
Speaker 2: of billions of dollars. There are so many questions about
Speaker 2: what happens after five o'clock tonight. These agencies will have
Speaker 2: till the tenth of February to put forth plans to
Speaker 2: see if spending comports with some of the executive actions
Speaker 2: that we've seen on everything from DEI to immigration and
Speaker 2: so forth, just in the last week and change. By
Speaker 2: the way, it's only been a week and a day
Speaker 2: if you're still playing along on your home game, so
Speaker 2: the fire hose is still spewing, and we wanted to
Speaker 2: spend time not only on this, but as I mentioned,
Speaker 2: the news on tariffs last evening getting buried a bit
Speaker 2: by the rest of this story today. With a true
Speaker 2: expert here, someone who brings insights to this program you
Speaker 2: won't hear anywhere else from the Madison Group. He's the founder.
Speaker 2: Rob Waters. Welcome back to Bloomberg. It's great to see you, Jo.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me always. Your phone's been ringing
Speaker 2: on this. Who's upset about it? Who's worried? And who
Speaker 2: could stand to benefit well?
Speaker 5: When it comes to tariffs and we're looking at American exceptionalism,
Speaker 5: I think a lot of the corporations will benefit. China
Speaker 5: in itself has violated the Monroe doctrine and we are
Speaker 5: just seeing it step by step, both in the Panama Canal.
Speaker 5: We're seeing it in Latin and South America. We're seeing it,
Speaker 5: you know, with AI, we are seeing where they are
Speaker 5: head to head competing with us. And how do we
Speaker 5: control that other than you know, export control and tariffs?
Speaker 6: Sure?
Speaker 2: Right, I want to dig into what Donald Trump is
Speaker 2: saying because you're kind of moving into into a slightly
Speaker 2: incremental fashion here. Nothing has really been implemented yet on
Speaker 2: terms of tariffs. But this review I mentioned, yeah is important.
Speaker 2: Will it actually change government spending? There are a lot
Speaker 2: of stakeholders here who could be impacted in so many
Speaker 2: different industries. You can't quantify it in one conversation.
Speaker 5: I mean, the United States is the largest giver of
Speaker 5: humanitarian aid. It's less than one percent of our budget.
Speaker 5: Is there waste, fraud and abuse in it? Absolutely? Can
Speaker 5: we tighten things?
Speaker 7: Absolutely?
Speaker 5: Is a review appropriated, appreciated appropriate? Yes, it is ninety days,
Speaker 5: maybe a little long, maybe a little short. But money,
Speaker 5: once it's spent, once it's program it's hard to unprogram it.
Speaker 2: So explain that to us, because you spent enough time
Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill and in Washington to get how this works.
Speaker 2: If money is authorized and appropriated, what if the president
Speaker 2: just decides not to spend it, he runs.
Speaker 5: Up against the will of Congress, And you know, having
Speaker 5: worked for two appropriators, I'm well familiar with this.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 5: You could zero it out in a budget of the
Speaker 5: next year, but once it's gone, once it's from a
Speaker 5: different fiscal year, it's awfully hard.
Speaker 2: So lawsuits have already been filed. Someone's always making money
Speaker 2: rob the lawyers. Yeah, well, so does this hold up
Speaker 2: in court?
Speaker 7: I think a review is legal?
Speaker 5: Okay, I think you back after the deadline. Yeah, check
Speaker 5: back after the deadline. Listen, you can always hold funding
Speaker 5: to make sure it's being spent appropriately or programmed appropriately.
Speaker 5: You can't zero it out. So I think what the
Speaker 5: president is doing is actually legal. The time frame might
Speaker 5: be under question.
Speaker 2: Is the media getting over its skis by framing this
Speaker 2: as an attempt to expand the unilateral authority of the
Speaker 2: executive or is that actually what's happening.
Speaker 5: I mean, what president doesn't try and expand the executive authority.
Speaker 5: I think the media is always getting over its skis.
Speaker 5: I mean, there's not a president in the world that
Speaker 5: doesn't want to power grab and say this, and there's
Speaker 5: not a Congress in the world that doesn't push back.
Speaker 5: Has been going since time and time again.
Speaker 2: If this understood on your point, if this actually goes
Speaker 2: through though, and Donald Trump is kind of picking which
Speaker 2: agency is going to get the funding or the grant
Speaker 2: money or whatever, that that he he finally got what
Speaker 2: every president ever wanted the line item veto true. Is
Speaker 2: that about right?
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's actually right. But let's see if that goes through.
Speaker 5: We have to go through reconciliation and all.
Speaker 2: You know, Oh, I want to get into that with you. Now,
Speaker 2: let's move to tariffs. Donald Trump has been keeping us guessing.
Speaker 2: We thought there'd be this massive across the board tariff
Speaker 2: implemented on day one, as he had threatened he's been
Speaker 2: kind of I think he's been incredibly strict. Well, you
Speaker 2: could certainly make that point. On Sunday, I will make
Speaker 2: He did update things last evening the speaking with reporters.
Speaker 2: Here's what Donald Trump said last night about tariffs, and
Speaker 2: remember again the word tariff.
Speaker 4: We're going to protect our people and our businesses, and
Speaker 4: we're going to protect our country with tariffs, tariffs on steel, aluminum,
Speaker 4: and copper and things that we need for our military thing.
Speaker 7: We have to bring.
Speaker 4: Production back to our country. The incentive is going to
Speaker 4: be there because they have no tariff whatsoever. Can We're
Speaker 4: going to look at pharmaceuticals, drugs, We're going to look
Speaker 4: at chips, semiconductors, and we're going to look at steel.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of stuff. Now, he went on to
Speaker 2: say that he wants to enact across the board terrace
Speaker 2: much bigger than the two and a half percent that's
Speaker 2: been suggested. Is the whole point here, the gambit, the
Speaker 2: chip on the table. What we saw in Columbia, the
Speaker 2: short lived trade battle, it was hours long on Sunday
Speaker 2: or will.
Speaker 7: We say it was absolutely fantastic. I'll come.
Speaker 5: We have a plane in air, we have a president
Speaker 5: of a smaller country, you know, negating what we consider
Speaker 5: a jurisdictional act. He says no, and Donald Trump says,
Speaker 5: big stick, okay, twenty five percent. Twenty five percent to
Speaker 5: a country that is reliant on its banana and flower
Speaker 5: exports to the United States would have decimated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or cup of coffee would have got pretty expensive, right,
Speaker 2: but they backed off. Yes, no tariff. So is that
Speaker 2: the model though? Or are we going to see.
Speaker 5: Across the board tariffs you guys can I don't think so.
Speaker 5: I think the President is using his bully pulpit and
Speaker 5: well done him to show if you treat the United
Speaker 5: States with respect and uphold our commerce, then you will
Speaker 5: get a fair deal.
Speaker 2: You mentioned Panama, Panama Canal. Marco Rubio's first trip will
Speaker 2: apparently include a stop in Panama. Needs to be okay,
Speaker 2: smart business? What does it lead to?
Speaker 6: So?
Speaker 5: Look, I was in Panama last year and the moment
Speaker 5: you get off the plane, Joe, the largest building you see, says.
Speaker 2: Huawei on it.
Speaker 7: I mean we have an issue.
Speaker 5: And I go back to this and you know, talking
Speaker 5: about the Monroe Doctrine. Our hemisphere of commerce and influence
Speaker 5: has been violated by China. And they continue to encroach
Speaker 5: in an area of commerce for US, I don't think
Speaker 5: it's unfair that we review what our process is and
Speaker 5: that you know we put America first.
Speaker 2: Is it about pushing China out of these ports on
Speaker 2: each side of the canal or is it about actually
Speaker 2: regaining control? Because again it's the do you believe the
Speaker 2: spirit of the statement or do you take him literally
Speaker 2: when he says to.
Speaker 5: I think we need parody because of so much shipping
Speaker 5: and coms that look like that means that as you
Speaker 5: use our currency as your currency in your bank machine,
Speaker 5: that you understand who you're trading partner and your partner
Speaker 5: in your hemisphere is.
Speaker 2: If it's the Monroe doctrine. Yes, you just touched Panama.
Speaker 2: What about Cuba?
Speaker 5: I mean, I think we need to take a good
Speaker 5: look at you know, where the good actors and bad
Speaker 5: actors are.
Speaker 2: If you don't want Russia or China to be in
Speaker 2: the neighborhood. Those are the two spots.
Speaker 7: I think.
Speaker 2: Where else are you looking?
Speaker 5: I think we're we're looking at Guatemala and Doris. You
Speaker 5: have to look at Latin and all of Latin and
Speaker 5: South America.
Speaker 2: As mass deportations begin and that brings us back to Colombia.
Speaker 2: These plans.
Speaker 5: So, I mean, let's talk about these mass deportations, right,
Speaker 5: these are people who were criminals, who some of all
Speaker 5: the way from back under Obama that are just being
Speaker 5: put out.
Speaker 7: I see.
Speaker 5: We might not like the messenger the people in America
Speaker 5: and whoever's crying on TikTok, which I don't watch, but
Speaker 5: it's the same policy that has been you know, enacted
Speaker 5: under Bush and Obama. I don't see a difference.
Speaker 2: Tell me more about that, because we're seeing the first
Speaker 2: optics today of deportations in Manhattan, right, the cumulative effect.
Speaker 2: You're not you don't understand politics, I do it. The
Speaker 2: optics of this, Yes, where's the line of or isn't
Speaker 2: there one of diminishis?
Speaker 5: But who is being taken out? Drug dealers, criminals, you know,
Speaker 5: people who should not be here and they've been on
Speaker 5: a warrant list for ten years?
Speaker 2: Understand. So I mean then it becomes where you fly
Speaker 2: them to, and that gets us back to price situation.
Speaker 7: We repatriate them to their country of origin.
Speaker 2: That's the way it's got to be. That's the way
Speaker 2: it's got to be. In the region. Who might take
Speaker 2: refugees or migrants.
Speaker 5: I mean, I honestly don't believe other countries want to
Speaker 5: take one country's criminals.
Speaker 7: So fair enough, as.
Speaker 2: We spend time with Rob Waters from Madison Group, I
Speaker 2: want to get back to the money. Let's go back
Speaker 2: to the money appropriations. As you mentioned, you worked for
Speaker 2: two appropriators.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 2: They never had to go down to Dorral and deal
Speaker 2: with the factions of this Republican conference. Can they craft
Speaker 2: a plan this week? How's this going to work with reconciliation?
Speaker 5: I think I think from what everyone's hearing, it's going
Speaker 5: to be one bill, which it should be. You know,
Speaker 5: there were thoughts that it were going to be too.
Speaker 5: I think that you know, we're going to see R
Speaker 5: and D tax credits, we're going to see mortgage deductions,
Speaker 5: we're going to see assault increase, we're going to see
Speaker 5: things that help commerce that are good, and we're going
Speaker 5: to have a few things that might be zeroed out.
Speaker 2: To pay for it. Yes, not nearly enough to cover
Speaker 2: though to what extent are you.
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know how much. How much was the
Speaker 5: green IRA program? Was the one point seven trill one
Speaker 5: point yeah, zero one seven and.
Speaker 2: Joe Biden would tell you they helped to chip away
Speaker 2: at the deficit at it whether you want to believe
Speaker 2: that or not. Is is this a president who will
Speaker 2: find religion on debt and deficit in this White House?
Speaker 2: I have?
Speaker 5: I think he'll his eyes on commerce and you know growth.
Speaker 7: We'll see.
Speaker 2: If you're writing a reconciliation bill for this president and
Speaker 2: you need to get all of these promises in no taxes,
Speaker 2: on tips, over time, social security, salt? Right, do you
Speaker 2: have to make all of these work? Or is there
Speaker 2: a bargain to be had with Donald Trump?
Speaker 7: I think there's a bargain to be had. It just
Speaker 7: depends on what it is.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, well you're the appropriations expert. Well, which of
Speaker 2: these can you leave on the floor and still say
Speaker 2: that you made good on your promises?
Speaker 7: Probably? You know you could. You could play with some
Speaker 7: of the mortgage deductions.
Speaker 2: Okay, fine, you got to get salt though, because you
Speaker 2: need New York Republicans and Washington.
Speaker 7: That's stay one too. By the way, there you go, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Come back and talk to us again soon. He's at
Speaker 2: the Madison Group. He's the managing partner but also the
Speaker 2: founder and of you that we don't always get here
Speaker 2: on the broadcast from those who bring governments together, bring
Speaker 2: companies together, and lobby both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington.
Speaker 2: That's what makes the world go around. Here, stay with us.
Speaker 2: Our panel is coming up next. Genie Shanzano is with
Speaker 2: us today, our Democratic analyst of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor
Speaker 2: alongside Mac Gorman targeted victory are Republican strategists. We have
Speaker 2: a lot more to talk about with confirmations. We haven't
Speaker 2: even touched that yet, So stay with us on the
Speaker 2: fastest show in politics on Bloomberg Radio, on the satellite
Speaker 2: and on YouTube search Bloomberg Business News Live. We'll welcome
Speaker 2: our global television audience with much more to talk about.
Speaker 2: Right here on Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple,
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. As we prepare for another first
Speaker 2: in the new Trump White House about twenty minutes from now,
Speaker 2: in a world in which things happen on time as scheduled,
Speaker 2: will be the first White House press briefing in the
Speaker 2: second Trump administration. Caroline Levitt not necessarily a household name
Speaker 2: or face. Yet, we'll be holding forth in the briefing
Speaker 2: room coming up at the top of the hour. If
Speaker 2: you're with us on YouTube right now, you get a
Speaker 2: live view. See we park your right in the briefing room.
Speaker 2: You can't get a seat like that unless you're a
Speaker 2: signed one or you're with a sun ballance of power.
Speaker 2: A lot of questions about even some of the things
Speaker 2: we've talked about today that have immerged just since last evening,
Speaker 2: when it comes to tariffs, when it comes to the
Speaker 2: pause in federal funding and grants that these reporters will have,
Speaker 2: as well as the immigration raids. We do have news
Speaker 2: on this. We've been kind of waiting for something of
Speaker 2: a larger scale based on a couple of following a
Speaker 2: couple of raids that we've seen, and we might be
Speaker 2: getting there as this now moves to New York. There is,
Speaker 2: in fact a new Secretary of Homeland Security, Christy nom
Speaker 2: is going to be talking to the troops today and
Speaker 2: was tweeting earlier today this morning about new raids in
Speaker 2: New York City of course overseeing the federal agency that
Speaker 2: runs the nation's immigration system. She posted a video on
Speaker 2: x Since she showed an enforcement operation underway in New
Speaker 2: York led to the arrest of an unauthorized immigrant with kidnapping, assault,
Speaker 2: and burglary charges. Again, you're seeing video of this if
Speaker 2: you're with us on YouTube, where you can find us
Speaker 2: right now by searching Bloomberg Business News Live. Same radio
Speaker 2: show with the visuals. Caroline Levitt will be talking about
Speaker 2: this coming up, and our political panel gets into it
Speaker 2: right now. Jeanie Shanzano is here, of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor,
Speaker 2: our democratic analyst and political science professor at Iona University,
Speaker 2: alongside Matt Gorman, the Republican strategist and executive VP at
Speaker 2: Target Victory. It's great to see you both. Welcome Matt.
Speaker 2: This is it and we have a headline, says Ice.
Speaker 2: Made close to twelve hundred arrests in one day. Now
Speaker 2: it's onto Manhattan. How are these optics going to play
Speaker 2: politically for this new president? Will he be criticized for
Speaker 2: some of the brutal nature of some of these videos
Speaker 2: or applauded for making good on campaign promises?
Speaker 8: I mean, I think the fact that they're touting it,
Speaker 8: they're not shying away from it. And I think when
Speaker 8: it comes to a lot of these folks child molusters, rapists, criminals,
Speaker 8: gang bangers, they don't mind being brutal. And the fact
Speaker 8: that you have Christi Nomo out there on the front line,
Speaker 8: Tom Homan and others they're willing to get cameras out
Speaker 8: there show that they're not afraid of the optics because
Speaker 8: they believe and I think rightly public opinions on their side.
Speaker 8: This was something he felt empowered to do from the campaign,
Speaker 8: and they're not shying away from it anytime soon.
Speaker 2: We saw a multi agency crackdown in Chicago on Sunday.
Speaker 2: The administration's been promoting to Matt's point as well, arrests
Speaker 2: in Colorado, Atlanta, Hawaii, Puerto Rico. Jeanie, now it's in
Speaker 2: your backyard. In New York, we've talked a lot about
Speaker 2: democratic outrage over the migrants who have been flown to
Speaker 2: New York City, who have taken over many hotels. Eric
Speaker 2: Adams was blaming the Biden administration for things spinning out
Speaker 2: of control. Will this play well in Manhattan?
Speaker 6: I think it depends. This is a precarious business. And
Speaker 6: nobody knows this better than Donald Trump. You know. I
Speaker 6: just went back Joe and looked at his comments on
Speaker 6: Meet the Press in early December and what he told
Speaker 6: Kristen Welker there was he said, it's gonna be horrible
Speaker 6: when we take a young woman, a wonderful young woman
Speaker 6: who's with the criminal, and she's taken out and the
Speaker 6: cameras are focused on her, and she's crying and she's
Speaker 6: beat crying and she's taken out of the country. That
Speaker 6: is what Donald Trump knows and he is absolutely right. So, yes,
Speaker 6: there is widespread support for deporting criminals, particularly violent criminals,
Speaker 6: and that even the New York Times poll the other
Speaker 6: day showed that the problem is is that when you
Speaker 6: see those pictures of the kind donald Trump himself was
Speaker 6: talking about, and that is going to be problematic because
Speaker 6: the reality is is people support the ends, but the
Speaker 6: means can be something that they turn on. And that's
Speaker 6: why these raids that are happening, they you know, they
Speaker 6: are supported. Right now, New York City has been hit
Speaker 6: by a strain, as you mentioned, financially, as it pertains
Speaker 6: to people coming here on document just like so many
Speaker 6: places in the country. But we also have friends and
Speaker 6: neighbors and family members, children, the elderly, and when they're
Speaker 6: caught up in this, that's when you start to see
Speaker 6: political problems. So they have to be very, very careful
Speaker 6: not to overread this mandate.
Speaker 2: We like data journalism. Of course. Here at Bloomberg, ICE
Speaker 2: is reporting, and we've heard some different numbers, by the way,
Speaker 2: from Tom Homan, who Genie just mentioned as opposed to
Speaker 2: the agency itself, ICE reporting it's made one hundred and
Speaker 2: seventy nine arrests, bringing the total since January twenty third
Speaker 2: to three thousand, five hundred and fifty two. Chicago, Baltimore, Buffalo, Atlanta,
Speaker 2: San Francisco. Now today it's the Bronx Matt. When you
Speaker 2: look at numbers like that and consider what Genie just said,
Speaker 2: is this something that the administration should be approaching with
Speaker 2: a sledgehammer or a scalpel?
Speaker 8: I mean, when again, when it comes to criminals, people
Speaker 8: who not should should not be here and whose own
Speaker 8: countries are reluctant to take them back, go sledgehammer. I
Speaker 8: think you're seeing a lot. Certainly the left in some
Speaker 8: of the mainstream media are are frankly begging for the
Speaker 8: optics of crying children and mothers because they know that
Speaker 8: it is far, far more lucrative on camera. Get then
Speaker 8: you have these repatriatian flights of murderers and folks who
Speaker 8: should not be in any country frankly should be behind bars.
Speaker 8: And look again this is a symptom here. This is
Speaker 8: a large part due to sanctuary cities, where you could
Speaker 8: arrest these guys in jail where they should be already.
Speaker 8: But if, for example, Chicago's a great example, Illinois is
Speaker 8: a great example, they won't cooperate with federal law enforcement,
Speaker 8: so ice and federal law enforcement are forced to go
Speaker 8: in their firsthand. But again that's I mean, the Trump
Speaker 8: mistrits are gonna have to reckon with the media especially,
Speaker 8: are gonna die metaphorically for those you know, crying separated
Speaker 8: families and those optics around that.
Speaker 2: You could also argue that those difficult optics, Matt are
Speaker 2: a deterrent. Is that not part of the plan.
Speaker 8: I mean, look, I think the Homan always uses this
Speaker 8: example right where you know, if say God forbids someoneh's
Speaker 8: rest for drunk driving or in the committing of a crime,
Speaker 8: right that person gets taken away no matter where they are.
Speaker 8: They could be in a family of four in a sedan,
Speaker 8: or again in an ice rate, and so that sort
Speaker 8: of thing. The crime itself causes these sorts of scenarios,
Speaker 8: not the law enforcement agency that's enforcing the law. Whether
Speaker 8: you're coming in this illegally or it's a drunk driving
Speaker 8: arrest in the side of the highway, the same thing happens.
Speaker 8: There's no differentiation here.
Speaker 2: Matt mentions sanctuary cities. Jim Comer is calling the chair
Speaker 2: of the House Oversight Committee launching an investigation here into
Speaker 2: sanctuary cities, and has sent out invitations to the mayors
Speaker 2: of Chicago, Boston, Denver, and New York. I don't know
Speaker 2: if anyone's going to show up for this, if they'll
Speaker 2: need to be subpoenaed. I wonder what your thought is,
Speaker 2: If you're Michelle wu sitting up there in Boston, do
Speaker 2: you take that invitation to come down to make your case.
Speaker 6: I think you absolutely do, And I think you go
Speaker 6: there and you tell them the reality the history of
Speaker 6: these cities, when these sanctuary cities were put in the place, why,
Speaker 6: and the economic impact of the people who have come
Speaker 6: undocumented in the last several years. I would take advantage
Speaker 6: of that to have a real conversation about this challenge.
Speaker 6: And the reality is is, by some estimates, we are
Speaker 6: talking about eleven million people. A deportation of one million
Speaker 6: each year is going to cost eighty eight billion. And
Speaker 6: at some point, as you know, Donald Trump sits down
Speaker 6: in Durrell and jd Vance with the Republicans who want
Speaker 6: to slash this budget by trillions, how is this going
Speaker 6: to be paid for? Those are very real concerns, and
Speaker 6: they can say, oh, there's no cost, that's too high,
Speaker 6: and that theoretically may sound right. But what we're seeing
Speaker 6: in the last few days is responding to an election
Speaker 6: which he said he was going to do this and
Speaker 6: people want it, is an aggressive ramp up of interior
Speaker 6: enforcement that is going to, unfortunately include people who have
Speaker 6: been living here peacefully. And when that happens, that's when
Speaker 6: the rubber is going to hit the road. This is
Speaker 6: very early in this. We need to see what happens
Speaker 6: as we go down the road and they get beyond
Speaker 6: those convicted felons and the violent criminals, and how this
Speaker 6: plays out and the impact economically and on our employers
Speaker 6: is dramatic. This is not an easy problem. That's why
Speaker 6: it's been a problem for decades. It requires a legislative solution.
Speaker 6: These eos are a step, but they are only a
Speaker 6: small step, and very little can be accomplished unless Congress
Speaker 6: addresses it. He's going to try to do that, but
Speaker 6: we have to wait and see how they do that.
Speaker 2: Mac gorman described some of the difficulty that ICE has
Speaker 2: had cooperating with authorities in these cities. Matt, you know,
Speaker 2: you can't go into a courthouse in Massachusetts or in
Speaker 2: Boston and arrest someone for crimes like this. There's a
Speaker 2: church in Evanston, the suburb outside of Chicago, the Lake
Speaker 2: Street Church, opening its doors to anyone worried they may
Speaker 2: its target for ICE deportation. Should these mayors be subpoenas
Speaker 2: if they don't show up, I.
Speaker 8: Mean you think, because all last year you had Eric
Speaker 8: Adams more heally the governor mass US We're essentially crying,
Speaker 8: say we don't have enough funds, state funds to take
Speaker 8: care of these migrants coming over the border. We're at capacity.
Speaker 8: You saw, you know, Eric Adams kind of saw religion
Speaker 8: on this a little bit after dealing with this for
Speaker 8: about a year. So when we talk about the cost
Speaker 8: of this stuff, the cost of housing, so many of
Speaker 8: these people come across the border. I mean, I saw
Speaker 8: this firsthand in New Arizona. We saw there the hospital systems,
Speaker 8: school systems, the city services were stretched to the guilds
Speaker 8: already in twenty twenty three when I was down there,
Speaker 8: you know. So that's number one, and I think number two,
Speaker 8: you're exactly right. These mayors, you know, depending on who's
Speaker 8: an office, they want more federal funding to take care
Speaker 8: of these migrants. But when somebody else comes into power
Speaker 8: and wants to take it off their hands, so to speak,
Speaker 8: suddenly they don't like that very much. So you can't
Speaker 8: have it both ways. That's number one. And again number two,
Speaker 8: I think you're going to start seeing some of these
Speaker 8: mayors possibly come down to Washington and try to audition
Speaker 8: for resistance hero right, if you're Mayor WU of Boston,
Speaker 8: this we'll see, you know, I think if it's a
Speaker 8: good platform for her too, as well as obviously for
Speaker 8: Republicans who want to use these policies as a political
Speaker 8: weapon too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, watch Michelle Woo in Boston, watch Brandon Johnson in Denver, Genie,
Speaker 2: They're going to try to make their own political benefit here.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they're practitioners on that level or not,
Speaker 2: but this is a potential opportunity for them. I think
Speaker 2: you would agree.
Speaker 6: It absolutely is, and you know, more than just a
Speaker 6: political opportunity. It's an opportunity to address a very real
Speaker 6: crisis that is impacting their cities. And they would tell
Speaker 6: you that firsthand. This is something that we have seen.
Speaker 6: And this is where the governor of Texas and the
Speaker 6: governor of Florida, as they or flew these people up,
Speaker 6: they did reinforce in people in other parts of the
Speaker 6: country the challenges that they've been facing for some time.
Speaker 6: And so this is an important moment. These issues need
Speaker 6: to be addressed, but addressing them is expensive and difficult,
Speaker 6: and so that's where it is going to be a challenge.
Speaker 6: You have to arrest, you have to detain, you have
Speaker 6: to adjudicate, and you have to deport. Each step along
Speaker 6: the way costs money. Somebody has to pay for it,
Speaker 6: and that will be the American public. And at eleven
Speaker 6: million plus, that is a big number. And of course
Speaker 6: the impact again on the flip side of the loss
Speaker 6: of people working in this country is dramatic. That's why
Speaker 6: we've in the past entertained the issue of dreamers beyond
Speaker 6: humanitarian reasons. So there is a smart way to handle this,
Speaker 6: but that is to secure the border and then allow
Speaker 6: a halfway for people to be here legally.
Speaker 2: I like this panel Genie Shanzano and Matt Gorman. Did
Speaker 2: Genie say Dreamers? Thanks for listening to the Balance of
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