1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarclay, and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us here on the Tuesday edition 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: of Balance of Power. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington here 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Radio, on the satellite radio, and on YouTube. 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: Where you can find us right now search Bloomberg Business 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: News Live. We're standing by for our first briefing. We'll 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: see what comes at one pm Eastern time, the White 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 2: House Press Briefing with the new Press Secretary, Caroline Levitt. 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: We'll bring you live into the briefing room to hear 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: what the conversation is like, remembering, of course, Sean Spicer's 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: famous first briefing in the first Trump administration. Folks are 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 2: still licking their wounds. It goes on in Miami at Doral, 17 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 2: the House Republican Retreat. As we told you yesterday, they 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: were going down the slide into the swimming pool, dinner 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 2: on the lawn last night and lunch. I guess right now, 20 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: after some morning golf in the Donald J. Trump Grand Ballroom, 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 2: they're holed up from nine to five to plot the future. 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: We're told of President Trump's agenda and how to turn 23 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: this all into legislation. We're going to talk about that 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 2: in a moment with Jack Fitzpatrick, who's on Capitol Hill 25 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: watching the appropriations process slowly unfold. But we add another 26 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: layer here, and Jack has the story. As Donald Trump 27 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: directs broad pausing in federal spending on loans and grants. 28 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: He's stopping the money. This is tens of billions of 29 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: dollars we're talking about, and it happens at five pm 30 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: Eastern time, the administration directing all federal agencies to pause 31 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: a broadswath of federal funding in what is seen as 32 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: an opening shot here in the words of Jack Fitzpatrick, 33 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: upcoming constitutional fight over his unilateral ability to stop funding 34 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: here and just like that, the headline crosses the terminal. 35 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: It's a good thing we've got Jack coming in Trump 36 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: administration sued over halts of federal grant payments and it 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: hasn't even happened yet. Jack, of course, is a specialist 38 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: in appropriations covers Congress from Bloomberg Government and joins us 39 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: right now from Capitol Hill. It's shifting under our feet, Jack, 40 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: But I suspect you're not surprised to hear a headline 41 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: like this. 42 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 3: No, we expected lawsuits. The question I think is how 43 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: many lawsuits or maybe how many plaintiffs in one lawsuit? 44 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: And how likely is it that this move is the 45 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 3: move that could go to the Supreme Court and really 46 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 3: hash out a fundamental disagreement that President Trump has with 47 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 3: certainly Democrats in Congress and realistically probably a lot of Republicans, 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 3: because Trump believes he can unilaterally halt the flow of 49 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 3: federal funds at least much more than what's dictated under 50 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 3: current law. The law that they're fighting over is called 51 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 3: the Impoundment Control Act. It was written during the Nixon 52 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: administration because they had fights over him holding up congressionally 53 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 3: approved spending, and Trump and his pick for Budget Director, 54 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 3: Russell Vote, believe that the current understanding of restrictions on 55 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 3: the president's power are, in their words, unconstitutional, and that 56 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 3: he should get to pump the brakes on federal spending 57 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: for his own reasons, not for programmatic delays, and because 58 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 3: he's interpreting the law, but because of what he believes 59 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 3: he should do as president. So it's a major legal battle, 60 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: and the breadth of this order one will have a 61 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 3: significant amount of a significant effect on a lot of money, 62 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: but two raises a lot of legal questions and maybe 63 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 3: the point that they debate in a lawsuit to settle 64 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 3: that disagreement. 65 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: Well, so we've got a lot here. Agencies, assuming this 66 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: stands Jack have until the tenth of February to submit 67 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: their plans on programs, projects, activities that will be subject 68 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: to the Here you mentioned russ vote that is the 69 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: same day feb ten that it's likely he'll be in 70 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: the chair as director of OMB. This is one of 71 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: the authors of Project twenty twenty five. Are there any 72 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: breadcrumbs in that document? And I'll get all kinds of 73 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: hate mail for bringing it up that might lead us 74 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 2: to an understanding of what Vote wants to do. 75 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 3: Well, when it comes to this, I don't even think 76 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: you necessarily have to look at Project twenty twenty five 77 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: because he has said in a number of formats that 78 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 3: he thinks the president has greater power to stop spending 79 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: than the status quo would dictate. So I think Project 80 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five gets into it. We also had a 81 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: little bit of a preview in twenty nineteen the events 82 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 3: that led to the first impeachment by the House of 83 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: President Trump when he delayed Ukraine aid and of course 84 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 3: later the Government Accountability Office said that was illegal, that 85 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 3: was a violation of the Impounment Control Act. So there's 86 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 3: a lot leading up to this. There's a lot of 87 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 3: history that Russell Vote has indicating he wants to significantly 88 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 3: change Washington's understanding of what the president can do without Congress. 89 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 3: And part of that you can link to Project twenty 90 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 3: twenty five. Part of that you can link to the 91 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 3: first Trump administration and the first impeachment. And also he's 92 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: said it on the record. He's told members in his hearings, 93 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 3: his confirmation hearings in the Senate that he believes that 94 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 3: the current restrictions are unconstitutional. So there's a lot to 95 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: look at there, and it's clear that Vote is really 96 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 3: the engine that drives the train that is this constitutional fight. 97 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: So there you have it. This is why we talk 98 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 2: to Jack now. Chuck Schumer calls this memo blatantly disobeying 99 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: the law, and I want to just get to the 100 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: Chewy Center here, if we can jack what it is 101 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: the administration is actually trying to weed out, it's not 102 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: just stopping spending. It's to align with what they're calling 103 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 2: presidential priorities on immigration. On DEI, we already saw DEI 104 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: offices closed. What is it actually that will create the 105 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: criteria for whether these programs live or die? 106 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 3: Well, this memo ordering the halt in funding is very, 107 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 3: very broad. I think it's fair to say it's vague. 108 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 3: It says that agencies need to pause funding and review 109 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 3: if it comports or conflicts with all the other executive 110 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 3: orders that have come out on issues like ending DEI practices. 111 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 3: It does not spell out here's the kind of spending 112 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: you should pause. When it says the kind of funding 113 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,559 Speaker 3: you should not pause, it just mentions a couple things. 114 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 3: It says, don't pause Social Security funding, don't pause Medicare funding, 115 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 3: and it broadly says some other funding that goes directly 116 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 3: to recipients. But this could this could block funding that 117 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 3: would not appear to be in conflict with other executive orders, 118 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 3: but isn't exempt from this. So there's a concern that 119 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 3: money for hospitals, money for heating, for low income people 120 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 3: for firefighter grants, etc. Could be caught up in this 121 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,679 Speaker 3: because it's very, very broadly worded. 122 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: Fascinating. How'd you like to be Jack Fitzpatrick trying to 123 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: cover all of this? There are so many questions, there 124 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: are not answers to all of them. Jack is Republican 125 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: House members gather in Miami here. This is a two 126 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: day retreat that we've been talking about at Doral. These 127 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 2: are the guys you cover, specifically, the appropriation's minds who 128 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: are together. They're trying to figure out how to manage reconciliation, 129 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: what to do with the debt limit, how to make 130 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: everybody happy, get Donald Trump's tax cuts and then tips 131 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: over time and all the rest of it in there. 132 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: What are you hearing? What are they talking about on 133 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: the patio at Doral that they haven't been able to 134 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: figure out already? We've been waiting for weeks and weeks 135 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: for direction on this. 136 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know if they're going to come out 137 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 3: of this with a specific plan that's chiseled into concrete, 138 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: but they are getting a little more clear their ambitions. 139 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 3: My colleagues Ken Tran and mave she here down there 140 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: and have reported one the Speaker of the House says 141 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,239 Speaker 3: they want to mark up the directions, basically the top 142 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 3: line outline for a major reconciliation bill next week, so 143 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 3: if they can get it together by next week, to 144 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: at least say, here are the broad numbers, here's an 145 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 3: assignment for each committee to work under, and say, here's 146 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 3: how much you can add to the deficit. We want 147 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 3: you to subtract this much from the deficit. It's not 148 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 3: the bill itself, but it's a fairly heavy lift, and 149 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 3: they want to get that done next week. They're still 150 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: leaving a lot to the imagination with the specifics. It 151 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: sounds like they're still going for one big, beautiful bill. 152 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: As Republicans say, they still think they can get an 153 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 3: almost unanimous vote on the debt limit through this reconciliation process. 154 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 3: If that's politically realistic, you can have a whole debate 155 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: about that. But they are kind of hitting the accelerator 156 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 3: and saying we're going to get the first stages done 157 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 3: by next week, which is ambitious to say the least. 158 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: Boy I should say so, and we're going to be 159 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: reading about it. With the help of Jack Fitzpatrick, reporting 160 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: for Bloomberg Government, he's live on Capitol Hill right now, 161 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: just waiting for the members to return. 162 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 4: Jack. 163 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 2: Great to see you and thank you so much. Find 164 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 2: his story by the way on the pausing if we 165 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: can use that word in federal funding and grants on 166 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: the terminal and online. Great work from Jack Fitzpatrick as 167 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 2: we turn our attention abroad. Coming up next the administration's 168 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: approach to trade, the mini trade war, if we can 169 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: call it that, that we had on Sunday, and the 170 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: impact of tariff's. Donald Trump just updated his stance on this. 171 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: Rob Waters is up next on Bloomberg. 172 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 173 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 174 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: Apple Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 175 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 176 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg. 177 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: Great to have you with us on the Tuesday edition 178 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: of Balance of Power. Yes, I'm Joe Matthew and Washington, 179 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 2: where the headlines are flying not just here but Durral 180 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: and we're connecting the dots between the two is Republican 181 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: House members gather with Donald Trump and Florida. Donald Trump 182 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 2: of course, making news on everything from tariffs to spending 183 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: here in Washington as we try to get our arms 184 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: around this. We just talked about it with Jack Fitzpatrick, 185 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 2: our appropriations expert on Capitol Hill. Trump directing a broad 186 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 2: pause in federal spending on loans and grants. We're talking 187 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: about potentially here tens of billions of dollars, maybe hundreds 188 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: of billions of dollars. There are so many questions about 189 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: what happens after five o'clock tonight. These agencies will have 190 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 2: till the tenth of February to put forth plans to 191 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 2: see if spending comports with some of the executive actions 192 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: that we've seen on everything from DEI to immigration and 193 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: so forth, just in the last week and change. By 194 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: the way, it's only been a week and a day 195 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: if you're still playing along on your home game, so 196 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: the fire hose is still spewing, and we wanted to 197 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: spend time not only on this, but as I mentioned, 198 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: the news on tariffs last evening getting buried a bit 199 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: by the rest of this story today. With a true 200 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 2: expert here, someone who brings insights to this program you 201 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 2: won't hear anywhere else from the Madison Group. He's the founder. 202 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: Rob Waters. Welcome back to Bloomberg. It's great to see you, Jo. 203 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me always. Your phone's been ringing 204 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 2: on this. Who's upset about it? Who's worried? And who 205 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: could stand to benefit well? 206 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 5: When it comes to tariffs and we're looking at American exceptionalism, 207 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 5: I think a lot of the corporations will benefit. China 208 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 5: in itself has violated the Monroe doctrine and we are 209 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 5: just seeing it step by step, both in the Panama Canal. 210 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 5: We're seeing it in Latin and South America. We're seeing it, 211 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 5: you know, with AI, we are seeing where they are 212 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 5: head to head competing with us. And how do we 213 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 5: control that other than you know, export control and tariffs? 214 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 6: Sure? 215 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 2: Right, I want to dig into what Donald Trump is 216 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: saying because you're kind of moving into into a slightly 217 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: incremental fashion here. Nothing has really been implemented yet on 218 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: terms of tariffs. But this review I mentioned, yeah is important. 219 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: Will it actually change government spending? There are a lot 220 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: of stakeholders here who could be impacted in so many 221 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: different industries. You can't quantify it in one conversation. 222 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 5: I mean, the United States is the largest giver of 223 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 5: humanitarian aid. It's less than one percent of our budget. 224 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 5: Is there waste, fraud and abuse in it? Absolutely? Can 225 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 5: we tighten things? 226 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 7: Absolutely? 227 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 5: Is a review appropriated, appreciated appropriate? Yes, it is ninety days, 228 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 5: maybe a little long, maybe a little short. But money, 229 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 5: once it's spent, once it's program it's hard to unprogram it. 230 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 2: So explain that to us, because you spent enough time 231 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill and in Washington to get how this works. 232 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 2: If money is authorized and appropriated, what if the president 233 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 2: just decides not to spend it, he runs. 234 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 5: Up against the will of Congress, And you know, having 235 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 5: worked for two appropriators, I'm well familiar with this. 236 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: Look. 237 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 5: You could zero it out in a budget of the 238 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 5: next year, but once it's gone, once it's from a 239 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 5: different fiscal year, it's awfully hard. 240 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 2: So lawsuits have already been filed. Someone's always making money 241 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 2: rob the lawyers. Yeah, well, so does this hold up 242 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 2: in court? 243 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 7: I think a review is legal? 244 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 5: Okay, I think you back after the deadline. Yeah, check 245 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 5: back after the deadline. Listen, you can always hold funding 246 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 5: to make sure it's being spent appropriately or programmed appropriately. 247 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 5: You can't zero it out. So I think what the 248 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 5: president is doing is actually legal. The time frame might 249 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 5: be under question. 250 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 2: Is the media getting over its skis by framing this 251 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 2: as an attempt to expand the unilateral authority of the 252 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: executive or is that actually what's happening. 253 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 5: I mean, what president doesn't try and expand the executive authority. 254 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 5: I think the media is always getting over its skis. 255 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 5: I mean, there's not a president in the world that 256 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 5: doesn't want to power grab and say this, and there's 257 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 5: not a Congress in the world that doesn't push back. 258 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 5: Has been going since time and time again. 259 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 2: If this understood on your point, if this actually goes 260 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 2: through though, and Donald Trump is kind of picking which 261 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 2: agency is going to get the funding or the grant 262 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: money or whatever, that that he he finally got what 263 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: every president ever wanted the line item veto true. Is 264 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: that about right? 265 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's actually right. But let's see if that goes through. 266 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 5: We have to go through reconciliation and all. 267 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: You know, Oh, I want to get into that with you. Now, 268 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: let's move to tariffs. Donald Trump has been keeping us guessing. 269 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: We thought there'd be this massive across the board tariff 270 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: implemented on day one, as he had threatened he's been 271 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 2: kind of I think he's been incredibly strict. Well, you 272 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: could certainly make that point. On Sunday, I will make 273 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: He did update things last evening the speaking with reporters. 274 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: Here's what Donald Trump said last night about tariffs, and 275 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: remember again the word tariff. 276 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 4: We're going to protect our people and our businesses, and 277 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 4: we're going to protect our country with tariffs, tariffs on steel, aluminum, 278 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 4: and copper and things that we need for our military thing. 279 00:14:58,760 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 7: We have to bring. 280 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 4: Production back to our country. The incentive is going to 281 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 4: be there because they have no tariff whatsoever. Can We're 282 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 4: going to look at pharmaceuticals, drugs, We're going to look 283 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 4: at chips, semiconductors, and we're going to look at steel. 284 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: That's a lot of stuff. Now, he went on to 285 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: say that he wants to enact across the board terrace 286 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: much bigger than the two and a half percent that's 287 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 2: been suggested. Is the whole point here, the gambit, the 288 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: chip on the table. What we saw in Columbia, the 289 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: short lived trade battle, it was hours long on Sunday 290 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 2: or will. 291 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 7: We say it was absolutely fantastic. I'll come. 292 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 5: We have a plane in air, we have a president 293 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 5: of a smaller country, you know, negating what we consider 294 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 5: a jurisdictional act. He says no, and Donald Trump says, 295 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 5: big stick, okay, twenty five percent. Twenty five percent to 296 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 5: a country that is reliant on its banana and flower 297 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 5: exports to the United States would have decimated. 298 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, or cup of coffee would have got pretty expensive, right, 299 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: but they backed off. Yes, no tariff. So is that 300 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 2: the model though? Or are we going to see. 301 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 5: Across the board tariffs you guys can I don't think so. 302 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 5: I think the President is using his bully pulpit and 303 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 5: well done him to show if you treat the United 304 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 5: States with respect and uphold our commerce, then you will 305 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 5: get a fair deal. 306 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 2: You mentioned Panama, Panama Canal. Marco Rubio's first trip will 307 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: apparently include a stop in Panama. Needs to be okay, 308 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: smart business? What does it lead to? 309 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 6: So? 310 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 5: Look, I was in Panama last year and the moment 311 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 5: you get off the plane, Joe, the largest building you see, says. 312 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: Huawei on it. 313 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 7: I mean we have an issue. 314 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 5: And I go back to this and you know, talking 315 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 5: about the Monroe Doctrine. Our hemisphere of commerce and influence 316 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 5: has been violated by China. And they continue to encroach 317 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 5: in an area of commerce for US, I don't think 318 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 5: it's unfair that we review what our process is and 319 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 5: that you know we put America first. 320 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 2: Is it about pushing China out of these ports on 321 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: each side of the canal or is it about actually 322 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: regaining control? Because again it's the do you believe the 323 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 2: spirit of the statement or do you take him literally 324 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 2: when he says to. 325 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 5: I think we need parody because of so much shipping 326 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 5: and coms that look like that means that as you 327 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 5: use our currency as your currency in your bank machine, 328 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 5: that you understand who you're trading partner and your partner 329 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 5: in your hemisphere is. 330 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 2: If it's the Monroe doctrine. Yes, you just touched Panama. 331 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 2: What about Cuba? 332 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 5: I mean, I think we need to take a good 333 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 5: look at you know, where the good actors and bad 334 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 5: actors are. 335 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: If you don't want Russia or China to be in 336 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: the neighborhood. Those are the two spots. 337 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 7: I think. 338 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: Where else are you looking? 339 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 5: I think we're we're looking at Guatemala and Doris. You 340 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 5: have to look at Latin and all of Latin and 341 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 5: South America. 342 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: As mass deportations begin and that brings us back to Colombia. 343 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: These plans. 344 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 5: So, I mean, let's talk about these mass deportations, right, 345 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 5: these are people who were criminals, who some of all 346 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 5: the way from back under Obama that are just being 347 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 5: put out. 348 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 7: I see. 349 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 5: We might not like the messenger the people in America 350 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 5: and whoever's crying on TikTok, which I don't watch, but 351 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 5: it's the same policy that has been you know, enacted 352 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 5: under Bush and Obama. I don't see a difference. 353 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 2: Tell me more about that, because we're seeing the first 354 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 2: optics today of deportations in Manhattan, right, the cumulative effect. 355 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 2: You're not you don't understand politics, I do it. The 356 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: optics of this, Yes, where's the line of or isn't 357 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 2: there one of diminishis? 358 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 5: But who is being taken out? Drug dealers, criminals, you know, 359 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 5: people who should not be here and they've been on 360 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 5: a warrant list for ten years? 361 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 2: Understand. So I mean then it becomes where you fly 362 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: them to, and that gets us back to price situation. 363 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 7: We repatriate them to their country of origin. 364 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 2: That's the way it's got to be. That's the way 365 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: it's got to be. In the region. Who might take 366 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: refugees or migrants. 367 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 5: I mean, I honestly don't believe other countries want to 368 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 5: take one country's criminals. 369 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 7: So fair enough, as. 370 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: We spend time with Rob Waters from Madison Group, I 371 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:15,880 Speaker 2: want to get back to the money. Let's go back 372 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 2: to the money appropriations. As you mentioned, you worked for 373 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 2: two appropriators. 374 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: I did. 375 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 2: They never had to go down to Dorral and deal 376 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: with the factions of this Republican conference. Can they craft 377 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 2: a plan this week? How's this going to work with reconciliation? 378 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 5: I think I think from what everyone's hearing, it's going 379 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 5: to be one bill, which it should be. You know, 380 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 5: there were thoughts that it were going to be too. 381 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 5: I think that you know, we're going to see R 382 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 5: and D tax credits, we're going to see mortgage deductions, 383 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 5: we're going to see assault increase, we're going to see 384 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 5: things that help commerce that are good, and we're going 385 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 5: to have a few things that might be zeroed out. 386 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: To pay for it. Yes, not nearly enough to cover 387 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 2: though to what extent are you. 388 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 5: Well, I don't know how much. How much was the 389 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 5: green IRA program? Was the one point seven trill one 390 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 5: point yeah, zero one seven and. 391 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 2: Joe Biden would tell you they helped to chip away 392 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 2: at the deficit at it whether you want to believe 393 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 2: that or not. Is is this a president who will 394 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: find religion on debt and deficit in this White House? 395 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: I have? 396 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 5: I think he'll his eyes on commerce and you know growth. 397 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 7: We'll see. 398 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 2: If you're writing a reconciliation bill for this president and 399 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 2: you need to get all of these promises in no taxes, 400 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 2: on tips, over time, social security, salt? Right, do you 401 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: have to make all of these work? Or is there 402 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 2: a bargain to be had with Donald Trump? 403 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 7: I think there's a bargain to be had. It just 404 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 7: depends on what it is. 405 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, well you're the appropriations expert. Well, which of 406 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 2: these can you leave on the floor and still say 407 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: that you made good on your promises? 408 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 7: Probably? You know you could. You could play with some 409 00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 7: of the mortgage deductions. 410 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 2: Okay, fine, you got to get salt though, because you 411 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: need New York Republicans and Washington. 412 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 7: That's stay one too. By the way, there you go, Yeah. 413 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: Come back and talk to us again soon. He's at 414 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: the Madison Group. He's the managing partner but also the 415 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 2: founder and of you that we don't always get here 416 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 2: on the broadcast from those who bring governments together, bring 417 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: companies together, and lobby both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington. 418 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: That's what makes the world go around. Here, stay with us. 419 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: Our panel is coming up next. Genie Shanzano is with 420 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: us today, our Democratic analyst of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor 421 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 2: alongside Mac Gorman targeted victory are Republican strategists. We have 422 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: a lot more to talk about with confirmations. We haven't 423 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: even touched that yet, So stay with us on the 424 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: fastest show in politics on Bloomberg Radio, on the satellite 425 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: and on YouTube search Bloomberg Business News Live. We'll welcome 426 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 2: our global television audience with much more to talk about. 427 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: Right here on Bloomberg. 428 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 429 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 430 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen 431 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us 432 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: live on YouTube. 433 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. As we prepare for another first 434 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 2: in the new Trump White House about twenty minutes from now, 435 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 2: in a world in which things happen on time as scheduled, 436 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 2: will be the first White House press briefing in the 437 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: second Trump administration. Caroline Levitt not necessarily a household name 438 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 2: or face. Yet, we'll be holding forth in the briefing 439 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 2: room coming up at the top of the hour. If 440 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: you're with us on YouTube right now, you get a 441 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 2: live view. See we park your right in the briefing room. 442 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: You can't get a seat like that unless you're a 443 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 2: signed one or you're with a sun ballance of power. 444 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 2: A lot of questions about even some of the things 445 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: we've talked about today that have immerged just since last evening, 446 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 2: when it comes to tariffs, when it comes to the 447 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 2: pause in federal funding and grants that these reporters will have, 448 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 2: as well as the immigration raids. We do have news 449 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 2: on this. We've been kind of waiting for something of 450 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 2: a larger scale based on a couple of following a 451 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 2: couple of raids that we've seen, and we might be 452 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 2: getting there as this now moves to New York. There is, 453 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 2: in fact a new Secretary of Homeland Security, Christy nom 454 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 2: is going to be talking to the troops today and 455 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 2: was tweeting earlier today this morning about new raids in 456 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 2: New York City of course overseeing the federal agency that 457 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 2: runs the nation's immigration system. She posted a video on 458 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: x Since she showed an enforcement operation underway in New 459 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 2: York led to the arrest of an unauthorized immigrant with kidnapping, assault, 460 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 2: and burglary charges. Again, you're seeing video of this if 461 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 2: you're with us on YouTube, where you can find us 462 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 2: right now by searching Bloomberg Business News Live. Same radio 463 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 2: show with the visuals. Caroline Levitt will be talking about 464 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: this coming up, and our political panel gets into it 465 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 2: right now. Jeanie Shanzano is here, of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor, 466 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 2: our democratic analyst and political science professor at Iona University, 467 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,719 Speaker 2: alongside Matt Gorman, the Republican strategist and executive VP at 468 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 2: Target Victory. It's great to see you both. Welcome Matt. 469 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 2: This is it and we have a headline, says Ice. 470 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 2: Made close to twelve hundred arrests in one day. Now 471 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 2: it's onto Manhattan. How are these optics going to play 472 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: politically for this new president? Will he be criticized for 473 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 2: some of the brutal nature of some of these videos 474 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 2: or applauded for making good on campaign promises? 475 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 8: I mean, I think the fact that they're touting it, 476 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 8: they're not shying away from it. And I think when 477 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 8: it comes to a lot of these folks child molusters, rapists, criminals, 478 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 8: gang bangers, they don't mind being brutal. And the fact 479 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 8: that you have Christi Nomo out there on the front line, 480 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 8: Tom Homan and others they're willing to get cameras out 481 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 8: there show that they're not afraid of the optics because 482 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 8: they believe and I think rightly public opinions on their side. 483 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 8: This was something he felt empowered to do from the campaign, 484 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 8: and they're not shying away from it anytime soon. 485 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: We saw a multi agency crackdown in Chicago on Sunday. 486 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: The administration's been promoting to Matt's point as well, arrests 487 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 2: in Colorado, Atlanta, Hawaii, Puerto Rico. Jeanie, now it's in 488 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 2: your backyard. In New York, we've talked a lot about 489 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: democratic outrage over the migrants who have been flown to 490 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 2: New York City, who have taken over many hotels. Eric 491 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 2: Adams was blaming the Biden administration for things spinning out 492 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: of control. Will this play well in Manhattan? 493 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 6: I think it depends. This is a precarious business. And 494 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 6: nobody knows this better than Donald Trump. You know. I 495 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 6: just went back Joe and looked at his comments on 496 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 6: Meet the Press in early December and what he told 497 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 6: Kristen Welker there was he said, it's gonna be horrible 498 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 6: when we take a young woman, a wonderful young woman 499 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 6: who's with the criminal, and she's taken out and the 500 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 6: cameras are focused on her, and she's crying and she's 501 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 6: beat crying and she's taken out of the country. That 502 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 6: is what Donald Trump knows and he is absolutely right. So, yes, 503 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 6: there is widespread support for deporting criminals, particularly violent criminals, 504 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 6: and that even the New York Times poll the other 505 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 6: day showed that the problem is is that when you 506 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 6: see those pictures of the kind donald Trump himself was 507 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 6: talking about, and that is going to be problematic because 508 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 6: the reality is is people support the ends, but the 509 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 6: means can be something that they turn on. And that's 510 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 6: why these raids that are happening, they you know, they 511 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 6: are supported. Right now, New York City has been hit 512 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 6: by a strain, as you mentioned, financially, as it pertains 513 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 6: to people coming here on document just like so many 514 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 6: places in the country. But we also have friends and 515 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 6: neighbors and family members, children, the elderly, and when they're 516 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 6: caught up in this, that's when you start to see 517 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 6: political problems. So they have to be very, very careful 518 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 6: not to overread this mandate. 519 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 2: We like data journalism. Of course. Here at Bloomberg, ICE 520 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: is reporting, and we've heard some different numbers, by the way, 521 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 2: from Tom Homan, who Genie just mentioned as opposed to 522 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 2: the agency itself, ICE reporting it's made one hundred and 523 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 2: seventy nine arrests, bringing the total since January twenty third 524 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 2: to three thousand, five hundred and fifty two. Chicago, Baltimore, Buffalo, Atlanta, 525 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 2: San Francisco. Now today it's the Bronx Matt. When you 526 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 2: look at numbers like that and consider what Genie just said, 527 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: is this something that the administration should be approaching with 528 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: a sledgehammer or a scalpel? 529 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 8: I mean, when again, when it comes to criminals, people 530 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 8: who not should should not be here and whose own 531 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 8: countries are reluctant to take them back, go sledgehammer. I 532 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 8: think you're seeing a lot. Certainly the left in some 533 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 8: of the mainstream media are are frankly begging for the 534 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 8: optics of crying children and mothers because they know that 535 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 8: it is far, far more lucrative on camera. Get then 536 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 8: you have these repatriatian flights of murderers and folks who 537 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 8: should not be in any country frankly should be behind bars. 538 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 8: And look again this is a symptom here. This is 539 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 8: a large part due to sanctuary cities, where you could 540 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 8: arrest these guys in jail where they should be already. 541 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 8: But if, for example, Chicago's a great example, Illinois is 542 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 8: a great example, they won't cooperate with federal law enforcement, 543 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 8: so ice and federal law enforcement are forced to go 544 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 8: in their firsthand. But again that's I mean, the Trump 545 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 8: mistrits are gonna have to reckon with the media especially, 546 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 8: are gonna die metaphorically for those you know, crying separated 547 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 8: families and those optics around that. 548 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 2: You could also argue that those difficult optics, Matt are 549 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 2: a deterrent. Is that not part of the plan. 550 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 8: I mean, look, I think the Homan always uses this 551 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,479 Speaker 8: example right where you know, if say God forbids someoneh's 552 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 8: rest for drunk driving or in the committing of a crime, 553 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 8: right that person gets taken away no matter where they are. 554 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 8: They could be in a family of four in a sedan, 555 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 8: or again in an ice rate, and so that sort 556 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 8: of thing. The crime itself causes these sorts of scenarios, 557 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 8: not the law enforcement agency that's enforcing the law. Whether 558 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 8: you're coming in this illegally or it's a drunk driving 559 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 8: arrest in the side of the highway, the same thing happens. 560 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 8: There's no differentiation here. 561 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 2: Matt mentions sanctuary cities. Jim Comer is calling the chair 562 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 2: of the House Oversight Committee launching an investigation here into 563 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 2: sanctuary cities, and has sent out invitations to the mayors 564 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: of Chicago, Boston, Denver, and New York. I don't know 565 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: if anyone's going to show up for this, if they'll 566 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: need to be subpoenaed. I wonder what your thought is, 567 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: If you're Michelle wu sitting up there in Boston, do 568 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 2: you take that invitation to come down to make your case. 569 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 6: I think you absolutely do, And I think you go 570 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 6: there and you tell them the reality the history of 571 00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 6: these cities, when these sanctuary cities were put in the place, why, 572 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 6: and the economic impact of the people who have come 573 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 6: undocumented in the last several years. I would take advantage 574 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 6: of that to have a real conversation about this challenge. 575 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 6: And the reality is is, by some estimates, we are 576 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 6: talking about eleven million people. A deportation of one million 577 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 6: each year is going to cost eighty eight billion. And 578 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 6: at some point, as you know, Donald Trump sits down 579 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 6: in Durrell and jd Vance with the Republicans who want 580 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 6: to slash this budget by trillions, how is this going 581 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 6: to be paid for? Those are very real concerns, and 582 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 6: they can say, oh, there's no cost, that's too high, 583 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 6: and that theoretically may sound right. But what we're seeing 584 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 6: in the last few days is responding to an election 585 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 6: which he said he was going to do this and 586 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 6: people want it, is an aggressive ramp up of interior 587 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 6: enforcement that is going to, unfortunately include people who have 588 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 6: been living here peacefully. And when that happens, that's when 589 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 6: the rubber is going to hit the road. This is 590 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 6: very early in this. We need to see what happens 591 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 6: as we go down the road and they get beyond 592 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 6: those convicted felons and the violent criminals, and how this 593 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 6: plays out and the impact economically and on our employers 594 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 6: is dramatic. This is not an easy problem. That's why 595 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 6: it's been a problem for decades. It requires a legislative solution. 596 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 6: These eos are a step, but they are only a 597 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 6: small step, and very little can be accomplished unless Congress 598 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 6: addresses it. He's going to try to do that, but 599 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 6: we have to wait and see how they do that. 600 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 2: Mac gorman described some of the difficulty that ICE has 601 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: had cooperating with authorities in these cities. Matt, you know, 602 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: you can't go into a courthouse in Massachusetts or in 603 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: Boston and arrest someone for crimes like this. There's a 604 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 2: church in Evanston, the suburb outside of Chicago, the Lake 605 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: Street Church, opening its doors to anyone worried they may 606 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 2: its target for ICE deportation. Should these mayors be subpoenas 607 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: if they don't show up, I. 608 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 8: Mean you think, because all last year you had Eric 609 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 8: Adams more heally the governor mass US We're essentially crying, 610 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 8: say we don't have enough funds, state funds to take 611 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 8: care of these migrants coming over the border. We're at capacity. 612 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 8: You saw, you know, Eric Adams kind of saw religion 613 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 8: on this a little bit after dealing with this for 614 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 8: about a year. So when we talk about the cost 615 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 8: of this stuff, the cost of housing, so many of 616 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 8: these people come across the border. I mean, I saw 617 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 8: this firsthand in New Arizona. We saw there the hospital systems, 618 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 8: school systems, the city services were stretched to the guilds 619 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 8: already in twenty twenty three when I was down there, 620 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 8: you know. So that's number one, and I think number two, 621 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 8: you're exactly right. These mayors, you know, depending on who's 622 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 8: an office, they want more federal funding to take care 623 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 8: of these migrants. But when somebody else comes into power 624 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 8: and wants to take it off their hands, so to speak, 625 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 8: suddenly they don't like that very much. So you can't 626 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 8: have it both ways. That's number one. And again number two, 627 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 8: I think you're going to start seeing some of these 628 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 8: mayors possibly come down to Washington and try to audition 629 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 8: for resistance hero right, if you're Mayor WU of Boston, 630 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 8: this we'll see, you know, I think if it's a 631 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 8: good platform for her too, as well as obviously for 632 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 8: Republicans who want to use these policies as a political 633 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 8: weapon too. 634 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, watch Michelle Woo in Boston, watch Brandon Johnson in Denver, Genie, 635 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: They're going to try to make their own political benefit here. 636 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: I don't know if they're practitioners on that level or not, 637 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: but this is a potential opportunity for them. I think 638 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 2: you would agree. 639 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 6: It absolutely is, and you know, more than just a 640 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 6: political opportunity. It's an opportunity to address a very real 641 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 6: crisis that is impacting their cities. And they would tell 642 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 6: you that firsthand. This is something that we have seen. 643 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 6: And this is where the governor of Texas and the 644 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 6: governor of Florida, as they or flew these people up, 645 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 6: they did reinforce in people in other parts of the 646 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 6: country the challenges that they've been facing for some time. 647 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 6: And so this is an important moment. These issues need 648 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 6: to be addressed, but addressing them is expensive and difficult, 649 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 6: and so that's where it is going to be a challenge. 650 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 6: You have to arrest, you have to detain, you have 651 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 6: to adjudicate, and you have to deport. Each step along 652 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 6: the way costs money. Somebody has to pay for it, 653 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 6: and that will be the American public. And at eleven 654 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 6: million plus, that is a big number. And of course 655 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 6: the impact again on the flip side of the loss 656 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 6: of people working in this country is dramatic. That's why 657 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 6: we've in the past entertained the issue of dreamers beyond 658 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 6: humanitarian reasons. So there is a smart way to handle this, 659 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 6: but that is to secure the border and then allow 660 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 6: a halfway for people to be here legally. 661 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 2: I like this panel Genie Shanzano and Matt Gorman. Did 662 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 2: Genie say Dreamers? Thanks for listening to the Balance of 663 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 2: Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, 664 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 2: at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and 665 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 2: you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC 666 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 2: at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.