Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and
Speaker 1: today we're discussing getting your money etiquette, Right, Joel, You know,
Speaker 1: this episode reminds me of what we had of several
Speaker 1: weeks ago with go Rick, where he spoke on the
Speaker 1: unspoken rules of success and there are these things that
Speaker 1: some people do some people don't do in life, and
Speaker 1: it allows certain individuals to get ahead of life. Specifically,
Speaker 1: in his case, he was speaking about your career. And
Speaker 1: then nobody tells you those things. Most of the time.
Speaker 1: You gotta figure it out. You can just trying to
Speaker 1: help people figure it out earlier, exactly, you kind of
Speaker 1: pick up on it, and naturally some folks do. But
Speaker 1: then some folks just don't. Some folks have no clue that,
Speaker 1: oh I should be sending a follow up email. Oh
Speaker 1: I should proactively ask, like what can I do to
Speaker 1: make your life better? Boss? Like that kind of thing, right.
Speaker 1: I think the same thing is true when it comes
Speaker 1: to money etiquette. There are some folks who are more
Speaker 1: who you know, let's be honest. They have a higher
Speaker 1: emotional quotient perhaps, and they're able to just pick up
Speaker 1: on small little hints and clues and just how people
Speaker 1: are responding to them when they're talking about money, whether
Speaker 1: that's a good thing or a bad thing. But then
Speaker 1: there's some folks who truly have no clue. And so
Speaker 1: we are talking about money etiquette today because we want
Speaker 1: this to be something that we are talking about more often,
Speaker 1: because if this is you, you want to stop making
Speaker 1: your friends uncomfortable every time you talk about saving money
Speaker 1: or pinching pennies or being being frugal. These are all
Speaker 1: things that can be talked about well. But it does
Speaker 1: come down to what approach you take right. And sometimes
Speaker 1: people decide not to talk about money at all because
Speaker 1: they think that's the right etiquette. We disagree on that too.
Speaker 1: We'll get to that later in this episode. So this
Speaker 1: is basically how the Money Emily Post edition on on
Speaker 1: today's show, and we'll get to that. But man, I
Speaker 1: want to mention really quickly so everybody knows that we
Speaker 1: love craft beer. Today on the show, we're drinking and
Speaker 1: I p a by Barrel Brewing, but I wanted to
Speaker 1: quickly mention that I think for the first time ever,
Speaker 1: I balked at purchasing a beer. I walked away from
Speaker 1: the cooler and I didn't take that four pack in
Speaker 1: my hands because the price point was just too high.
Speaker 1: And so I don't know, I wonder even prices have
Speaker 1: gone up. I mean just even over the past few years,
Speaker 1: we've seen the price First of all, it's gone from
Speaker 1: six packs to four packs, which that alone really pisses
Speaker 1: some people off. I don't mind because a liquid, but
Speaker 1: for most there's a four packs. Yeah, um, but it
Speaker 1: is a higher typically it's a higher quality beer, and
Speaker 1: I can appreciate that, right, But the thing is like,
Speaker 1: even with something that I love, I have a limit
Speaker 1: and um and and so I think it was thirty
Speaker 1: three or thirty four dollars for a four pack of
Speaker 1: this delicious sounding sour that was like really highly rated
Speaker 1: on on Tapped, and I was like, man, I really
Speaker 1: want to try it, but it turns out that I
Speaker 1: was like, it's just to me, it's not worth that, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to try it that badly. There are
Speaker 1: some really great beers that I can get for fifteen
Speaker 1: or sixteen or eighteen bucks for a four act and
Speaker 1: even that like took me a while to be feel
Speaker 1: comfortable spending that. But yeah, I was like, whenever the
Speaker 1: single section to see if I could find a single
Speaker 1: can of that, even though that would be like nine dollars,
Speaker 1: but at least then I'm like, all right, I get
Speaker 1: to taste it, but I don't have to, you know,
Speaker 1: put out all the money. I was gonna have to
Speaker 1: remind you here for a second, I was gonna say, Joel,
Speaker 1: like craft beer is our craft beer equivalent, Like like
Speaker 1: this is something that we splurge on. But even in that,
Speaker 1: there's got to be a limit. Right If if your
Speaker 1: BMW is the is your craft beer equivalent, that's okay,
Speaker 1: but you have to go all the way to the
Speaker 1: M three edition that costs like thirty more not probably not.
Speaker 1: So I mean, like I think even within the things
Speaker 1: that we love, there are limits, and it's okay to say,
Speaker 1: you know what, today I'm not feeling it. Maybe not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe in a few months you'll get used to it.
Speaker 1: Because here's the thing, what if that was going to be,
Speaker 1: like in your opinion, that could have been the best
Speaker 1: beer in the entire world if I knew would not
Speaker 1: have known because we didn't even give it a shot.
Speaker 1: If I knew that that was what it was going
Speaker 1: to be, I would have paid it. But I was like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's another beer and it rates well, but um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. So I'll look again in the single
Speaker 1: section see if I can find it next time, because
Speaker 1: I don't mind spending maybe nine bucks on one great beer. Well,
Speaker 1: if it's not that great, I guess that's the that's
Speaker 1: the thing that you're trying to do, the risk your take,
Speaker 1: like you would avoid spending a ton of money on
Speaker 1: four beers where you're saying to yourself, man, that really
Speaker 1: wasn't worth it. I can have an equivalent quality beer
Speaker 1: for maybe twenty bucks for a four pack. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: I'm underwhelmed on at thirty something dollar beer, I'm you're
Speaker 1: stuck with probably not gonna be happy. You're gonna be like,
Speaker 1: hey man, you wanna go in have these with me
Speaker 1: on this particular jump off on your doorstep. But okay,
Speaker 1: so I know we've all got that price point. I
Speaker 1: just want our listeners to know too. We as had
Speaker 1: a had a money hosts even have our price limits.
Speaker 1: Even in the category that we love to spend money on,
Speaker 1: it's still worth being price conscious. Yeah. I still bought
Speaker 1: some good beers that day, but just not that particular one,
Speaker 1: all right, Let's let's keep moving on the Matt. Let's
Speaker 1: get to the topic at hand. We are discussing getting
Speaker 1: your money etiquette right, and Matt speaking of unwillingness to
Speaker 1: spend I personally, I don't really spend a whole lot
Speaker 1: of money at fancy restaurants. Think we've talked about this
Speaker 1: not too long ago. The one time my wife and
Speaker 1: I did go to one of those fancy restaurants where
Speaker 1: you can watch the chef cook. I was a little
Speaker 1: nervous about the bill I was gonna receive. We like
Speaker 1: good food, but the super fancy restaurant culture just isn't
Speaker 1: really our jam. And like, if that's if there's like
Speaker 1: three forks on the table, I'm probably walking out of
Speaker 1: there because one I don't even really know, like which
Speaker 1: direction you're going? Is it out to end? Is that
Speaker 1: I don't even know? Okay, it's okay. I be're like,
Speaker 1: what's that for doing at the top about place? I
Speaker 1: don't know. You're more refined than me. I thought you
Speaker 1: might have known. But I mean, I enjoy k and
Speaker 1: I like going to fancier laser restaurants, But the actual
Speaker 1: etiquette that goes into the niceties of which fork I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to use with what course, I'm less refined in
Speaker 1: that in that way, my pallets refined. But my etiquette
Speaker 1: maybe could do some work. So maybe you and I
Speaker 1: neither of us are the people to be giving etiquette
Speaker 1: advice on today's show. But we're gonna but we know
Speaker 1: money we're gonna push through. We're gonna try anyway, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about different money conundrums that pop up
Speaker 1: in all of our lives, stuff like splitting the bill, tipping,
Speaker 1: going on dates, and more. There's just there's also we
Speaker 1: want you to know ahead of time. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of subjectivity around this topic. So you're gonna hear our
Speaker 1: opinions today, you're gonna hear our thoughts. But yeah, we
Speaker 1: hope that they're helpful in informing you and giving you
Speaker 1: some direction when it comes to those tough money etiquette decisions.
Speaker 1: But just know too, these aren't like the ten amandments
Speaker 1: handed down from on high from the kind of money house.
Speaker 1: These are actually, uh, these are kind of how we
Speaker 1: treat these things and how we think you should think through.
Speaker 1: Maybe these money etiquette can untrums. They're meant to me
Speaker 1: more like ballpark answers than like specific facts. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you mentioned the Ten Commandments. So because I think that's
Speaker 1: so true. I think there are a lot of folks
Speaker 1: who believe that there are some money rules or principles
Speaker 1: that pretty much are etchton stone. Uh. They feel that
Speaker 1: there's either a right way and you know, then there's
Speaker 1: a wrong way to do things. But so much of
Speaker 1: money is personal. Um, and not only personal, but there
Speaker 1: are social expectations and different pressures placed on us, and
Speaker 1: so sometimes we're not sure of what the you know,
Speaker 1: the right path for us to take is. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so for instance, if gratuity, if it's already included on
Speaker 1: the build, do I I still tip extra? It's helpful
Speaker 1: to think about this kind of stuff before the bill
Speaker 1: hits the table, so you don't end up, you know,
Speaker 1: guilt tipping or just you know pulling a money etiquette
Speaker 1: faux pa just running away. Uh, you can't, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't want to dine and dash. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: we want you to be confident that you have the
Speaker 1: money in your budget to actually cover that generous tip
Speaker 1: if you so choose to. And so our goal for
Speaker 1: this episode is to help you to think about the
Speaker 1: right way to think about these things. We want to
Speaker 1: help you to navigate these money etiquette waters. No doubt,
Speaker 1: I think of us as like the third base coach
Speaker 1: in baseball, Matt. You've seen him give all the weird
Speaker 1: signs to the person to play, like tugging on their ears,
Speaker 1: touching their nose, And that's kind of what we're doing here.
Speaker 1: We're like making some signals. I don't watch baseball. I
Speaker 1: know you don't. It's a playoff time, but is it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't even know. But we all know about your
Speaker 1: lack of dedication to really any sport beside soccer. But
Speaker 1: speaking of soccer, soccer is a very European sport, and
Speaker 1: my favorite model of tipping comes from Europe over there,
Speaker 1: tip tiping the South American way. Soccer is big there too. Well.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to just to briefly mention that we
Speaker 1: have kind of a unique system here in the States.
Speaker 1: The lack of tipping actually across the pond and the
Speaker 1: increased wages and the cost of the meal is just
Speaker 1: a much more comfortable way for many people to do things. Man.
Speaker 1: I know you and I maybe disagree a little bit
Speaker 1: on this one, but you kind of know what you're
Speaker 1: paying for and you know that the server is being
Speaker 1: paid a reasonable salary, unlike here where tips are the
Speaker 1: primary source of income, like that person who's serving your
Speaker 1: food might be making a dollar fifty an hour, and
Speaker 1: then you feel a little more guilty about how much
Speaker 1: you should be tipping. And granted, yeah, if that's the case,
Speaker 1: you should be tipping well. But in Europe, you know,
Speaker 1: there's not that element at play. I think for me, honestly,
Speaker 1: it's because of my entrepreneur background, where I knew that
Speaker 1: if I didn't work, I wasn't getting paid. It's I
Speaker 1: think I am more comfortable, for instance, with the American
Speaker 1: way where servers waiters, where their base rate isn't that
Speaker 1: high and it is predominantly, you know, focused on the tips. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why. I mean. I remember as a kid going
Speaker 1: to one grocery store where the person would bring your
Speaker 1: groceries out and you would tip them directly, and then
Speaker 1: going to this other grocery store and tips weren't allowed,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know, just there's a different, uh
Speaker 1: feel as a consumer, as a customer when you go
Speaker 1: someplace and tips are involved or tips are off the table,
Speaker 1: and I feel like right now in this environment. Part
Speaker 1: of what makes it more and more difficult these conversations
Speaker 1: around money etiquette is that tipping is expected in more
Speaker 1: and more places. Yeah, that's so true, man. I think
Speaker 1: some of the ambiguity around tipping is certainly something that
Speaker 1: leads to the confusion around tipping specifically. But let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and dive into conversations around money in general, because
Speaker 1: I think, you know, broadly speaking, let's just talk about
Speaker 1: how we talk about money. Because everyone knows that you
Speaker 1: know money. It is an uncomfortable topic for most folks.
Speaker 1: If you try to bring it up and make it
Speaker 1: shut down, and you want to make someone squirm in
Speaker 1: their seats, like start talking about their income, you make,
Speaker 1: by the way, what's your budget look like? Man? Honestly
Speaker 1: like you might even hurt her friendship. And so we've
Speaker 1: got a few tips to make those money conversations less perilous,
Speaker 1: uh and just more inviting. So the first little bit
Speaker 1: of advice we would give to folks here is to
Speaker 1: make sure that you are reading the room, uh, and
Speaker 1: definitely avoid complaining about money in front of people maybe
Speaker 1: that are struggling with their finances. So, for instance, if
Speaker 1: you clearly make more than a friend or you know
Speaker 1: that they you know, they don't nerd out about money stuff.
Speaker 1: Just make sure that you're being careful about the conversation
Speaker 1: and make sure that you're being a little more casual
Speaker 1: and plus regularly complaining, that's kind of a not awesome
Speaker 1: way to do things anyway, right, So like complaining about
Speaker 1: first world problems, you know, like work piling up after
Speaker 1: a weeklong vacation to the Bahamas. That's gonna be a
Speaker 1: bit tone deaf to a friend who can't afford that
Speaker 1: time off. Hey, how is that vacation? It was great?
Speaker 1: But man, am I backlogged at working Now? It's like
Speaker 1: I kind of wish I wasn't able to go on
Speaker 1: the vacation. It's like, Oh, really, tell me how nice
Speaker 1: that is. If you really want to get a conversation
Speaker 1: started with somebody, I think just starting with like a
Speaker 1: cool article that you came across, or just like an
Speaker 1: interesting tidbit of information you recently picked up, and just
Speaker 1: get the conversation started by you know, hopefully you're able
Speaker 1: to pique their curiosity. So definitely don't complain and make
Speaker 1: sure that your approach is a little more kind of
Speaker 1: money philosopher rather than kind of this intense budget drill sergeant.
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of folks who feel like
Speaker 1: that they kind of have a solid financial footing underneath them,
Speaker 1: they can approach some of those conversations with you should
Speaker 1: be doing this, you shouldn't be doing that, uh, And
Speaker 1: maybe instead they just want to talk to their buddy,
Speaker 1: you know, like they just want to talk to their girlfriend,
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to hear all the different things they
Speaker 1: could be doing differently with their money. Yeah, as a
Speaker 1: husband over the years, have been married eleven years, and
Speaker 1: I have realized it's taken me a while that oftentimes
Speaker 1: when my wife is having an issue, like, she doesn't
Speaker 1: want me to fix it. She really just wants me
Speaker 1: to listen, empathize here, um and sit there with her
Speaker 1: end whatever problems she's going through. And I think the
Speaker 1: same thing is true when we talk about money with
Speaker 1: other people. When when people either bring up an issue
Speaker 1: or when you start to talk about money with them, uh,
Speaker 1: in order to keep them from shutting down or from
Speaker 1: completely de ailing the conversation, usually it takes just being
Speaker 1: a little more empathetic and you know, just hearing what
Speaker 1: they have to say, being less prescriptive. That can come later,
Speaker 1: but especially in the beginning. I think, yeah, reading the
Speaker 1: room and recognizing when someone is basically screaming at you
Speaker 1: from inside their brain. Hey, no, no, no, that's not
Speaker 1: what I'm looking for, so that you can calm it
Speaker 1: down and bring it back to like, okay, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I love talking because we're all about talking about money.
Speaker 1: We don't want you to come never talk about money
Speaker 1: with people. We think it's really important to have that conversation,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't always have to be do this, not
Speaker 1: that exactly. I think figuring out whether this is a
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that really sucks conversation or if this is uh, okay,
Speaker 1: let's see how we can fix this conversation. I found
Speaker 1: that to be incredibly valuable in my relationship with my wife,
Speaker 1: right right, And uh yeah, what about talking about money
Speaker 1: at the workplace, that's like, um, that's different than talking
Speaker 1: to your significant other or talking to a friend. You'll
Speaker 1: want to take We would say a similar low key approach,
Speaker 1: at least at first. And you know, we want you
Speaker 1: to talk about money, but we don't want you to
Speaker 1: get in trouble. And sometimes in the workplace, if you're
Speaker 1: talking about maybe in off topic convo, like like talking
Speaker 1: about your personal finances, that could be something that your
Speaker 1: boss over here is and they're like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: shut it down, and you'll you'll you'll find that most
Speaker 1: coworkers actually don't want to go there with you. But
Speaker 1: we also think that doesn't mean you shouldn't try read
Speaker 1: those cues though, and then shut off the conversation quickly
Speaker 1: if that's the response you're getting, If you're getting kind
Speaker 1: of stone walled or you can tell that person is uninterested,
Speaker 1: don't keep pushing the envelope. But yeah, you'll likely find
Speaker 1: that some of the folks you talk to will be interested,
Speaker 1: and it can be fun to connect with your coworkers
Speaker 1: on that level, especially if personal finance is super exciting
Speaker 1: to you, super interesting to them. You listen to how
Speaker 1: the money, so you probably are interested at least to
Speaker 1: some degree. But yeah, I think it's really important in
Speaker 1: that process to read the room again and make sure
Speaker 1: that you're not pushing a conversation that isn't wanted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and unlike your friends, your coworkers can't just stop seeing you,
Speaker 1: you know, like you still have to continue working on
Speaker 1: the project, where as your friends can I don't know,
Speaker 1: maybe stop returning your text or your calls. Uh. So
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that you're being sensitive to
Speaker 1: the different topics that you're bringing up around them. But okay,
Speaker 1: what about compensation specifically, because I think that's a workplace
Speaker 1: conversation that again I don't hopefully we don't see this
Speaker 1: too much. We we don't want you to completely avoid
Speaker 1: these conversations, but you've got to be careful, especially when
Speaker 1: it comes to the compensation because obviously this can get
Speaker 1: pretty awkward. How much money you make, that's always the
Speaker 1: way to start it. But we do want to talk
Speaker 1: about because part of what we're doing here is destigmatizing
Speaker 1: this talk around money. But we would recommend that you
Speaker 1: only do it with different employees maybe who you would
Speaker 1: call friends or you've established some trust, and also make
Speaker 1: sure that you have a good reason for asking, you know,
Speaker 1: like I wouldn't kind of go at it with So
Speaker 1: how much do you make question? Approach it maybe for
Speaker 1: from a standpoint of curiosity, this is when you know
Speaker 1: your delivery, how you breach the topic, this is everything. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you could approach it from the standpoint of
Speaker 1: being concerned, maybe like seriously maybe you're night, Uh, you're
Speaker 1: were a little bit worried about how much you're getting
Speaker 1: paid versus the value that you're actually bringing the company.
Speaker 1: And obviously knowing someone else's salary would would be able
Speaker 1: to provide you some helpful knowledge when it comes to
Speaker 1: asking for a raise in the future. And of course
Speaker 1: it's worth pointing out that you want to make sure
Speaker 1: that you keep whatever they share private and confidential. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it might even be best to kind of have the
Speaker 1: conversation off premise, not just like in the break room
Speaker 1: for everybody to hear as you as they're walking by.
Speaker 1: Maybe instead you are able to grab the beer after work.
Speaker 1: But these conversations really can help you or your coworker
Speaker 1: make more money. It's not just about what it can
Speaker 1: do to help you out, um, but it is important
Speaker 1: to be careful with your approach and your tone as
Speaker 1: you enter into some of these conversations. Yeah, Matt, you
Speaker 1: know it's interesting. My my friend, our friend Jesse, who
Speaker 1: runs the blog in the podcast called Best Interest, he
Speaker 1: and I were just chatting on Twitter the other day.
Speaker 1: Well he mentioned, hey, I just got a massive raise, uh,
Speaker 1: like a few months back, and he kind of mentioned
Speaker 1: that it's really it's it's been made a huge impact
Speaker 1: on his ability to invest more money. And I was like,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. How'd you do it? And so he shared
Speaker 1: some really good tips for how he did it, and
Speaker 1: one of the things I wanted us to know was, well,
Speaker 1: how did you know you were underpaid? And he said
Speaker 1: part of it was just water cooler talk, honestly with
Speaker 1: some fellow employees, and so I think, yeah, that's the
Speaker 1: way to do it, kind of like, well, what are
Speaker 1: new employees making like you want to kind of try
Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of that in an ethical
Speaker 1: and above board way. And he was able to do that,
Speaker 1: and it made a big impact on his ability to
Speaker 1: then go to HR and say, hey, I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not getting paid what I'm worth. I've
Speaker 1: been here two years. People that are just starting out
Speaker 1: are getting paid as much or more than I am.
Speaker 1: And they were like, sorry, Bud, we're not paying anymore.
Speaker 1: And then he said, okay, cool, I'm gonna you know,
Speaker 1: he didn't tell them this, I don't think, but he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go hunt for jobs. And he end up
Speaker 1: getting a job offer that was more lucrative than what
Speaker 1: he was currently making. And so he went back and
Speaker 1: he was like, guys, I think I'm gonna take this job.
Speaker 1: And they were like, well, wait a second, I'll leave.
Speaker 1: We'll pay you more. And so that is the classic,
Speaker 1: tried in true way to make more money where you work.
Speaker 1: But it does involve that difficult conversation sometimes that most
Speaker 1: of us don't want to have. But if you want
Speaker 1: to make more money, if you want to grow your salary, uh,
Speaker 1: and you want to get paid what you're worth, oftentimes
Speaker 1: it takes having that uncomfortable conversation. And I will say,
Speaker 1: how do money etiquette rules dictate that it is okay
Speaker 1: to start that conversation if you do it the right way.
Speaker 1: That's right. All right, we've covered money conversations in general.
Speaker 1: We've talked about it within the workplace as well. After
Speaker 1: the break, we're going to dive into money conversations, money etiquette,
Speaker 1: and social situations, including dating. We'll get to all of
Speaker 1: that right after this break. All right, we're back from
Speaker 1: the break. We're still talking about money etiquette, and we
Speaker 1: are going to get to etiquette tips. When it comes
Speaker 1: to dating, that's fraught with peril for lots of people.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know how do I navigate these waters?
Speaker 1: But Matt, you you have plenty of experience in that area.
Speaker 1: We were almost the bachelor on season three back in
Speaker 1: the day. Right. Uh. Yeah, I was the first Bachelor
Speaker 1: to have actually gotten voted off the island. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I think so I was a survivor. These are pretty sure.
Speaker 1: I was married when the first started. Dog, it's really
Speaker 1: good you aren't on that show then. So but all,
Speaker 1: let's let's start. If always talk about restaurants and tipping.
Speaker 1: You know that moment when your date is waiting quietly
Speaker 1: while you figure out what the tip is going to be, Well,
Speaker 1: those are awkward situations, and it's Matt, It's very much
Speaker 1: like the way I feel at a fancy restaurant when
Speaker 1: there's three forks. I have no idea what to do.
Speaker 1: I just feel out of place. But yeah, how do
Speaker 1: you navigate that situation? Well, like, how do you do that? Plus,
Speaker 1: like I said before, so much has changed when it
Speaker 1: comes to tipping. It seems like it's suggested to being
Speaker 1: suggested in more and more places. Everybody flips over the
Speaker 1: iPad and they they've got preset tipping amounts. And you're like, huh,
Speaker 1: what I didn't think. How don't used to tip here?
Speaker 1: And it's a little nerve racking. So um, with cash disappearing,
Speaker 1: it's becoming more and more of a problem. We're all
Speaker 1: paying digitally and we're getting tips said guess hit at
Speaker 1: us right and left and then, which to a certain
Speaker 1: extent I appreciate because there's some folks out there who
Speaker 1: aren't as good at the math. Uh. And so for
Speaker 1: those folks, I think they're they see it as as
Speaker 1: welcome relief. But things have gotten a little out of hand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's some places where there were just no tip
Speaker 1: zones before and now it's like, wait, no tip zone,
Speaker 1: we tip here now, okay, all right. I feel like
Speaker 1: if Seinfeld was still around, they would totally do a
Speaker 1: show on you are in the no tip zone. Sorry.
Speaker 1: But and then when it comes to choosing no tip
Speaker 1: or custom tip, those boxes are like super tiny at
Speaker 1: the bottom of the screen, like they don't want you
Speaker 1: really looking there. It's like the checkbox at the bottom
Speaker 1: of the opt out email, like when you're signing up
Speaker 1: for a new product exactly. It's like the pop up
Speaker 1: on the website and you're like where is the X button?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, Like lately they've gotten even more
Speaker 1: nefarious about that, Like the designs of the background make
Speaker 1: it impossible to see. I swear I stared at one
Speaker 1: the other day that or you're just getting older, No, dude,
Speaker 1: it was it was a Spotify ad. I swear it
Speaker 1: was a Spotify ad and I go with the you know,
Speaker 1: the non premium Spotify and I could not find I
Speaker 1: was like, where the heck is the X. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna agree to this And it was completely blended in
Speaker 1: with the artwork in the top corner. They're being a
Speaker 1: little too sneaky about it, right, Okay, So how do
Speaker 1: we deal with kind of this newfound environment when it
Speaker 1: comes to tipping? Matt, Like, what are your some of
Speaker 1: your thoughts? Well, another thing to you, man, I'm just
Speaker 1: always curious to see what those tips suggestions are, you know,
Speaker 1: like tip creep. That's totally real. Now with a lot
Speaker 1: of businesses and restaurants changing how they serve you, I
Speaker 1: think this changes the equation as well. So for instance,
Speaker 1: like should we still tip the same even if my
Speaker 1: my restaurant is short on servers? And like it feels
Speaker 1: like I'm basically serving myself like you basically went to
Speaker 1: Piccadilly instead of you. It's like a buffet. That's a
Speaker 1: lot different of a scenario. That's a much different experience.
Speaker 1: Even at a local ice cream place, the suggested tip
Speaker 1: amounts are twenty, which is completely ludicrous. That should be
Speaker 1: borderline criminal, I would say for ice cream. Uh, And honestly,
Speaker 1: even at some coffee shops, you'll just see like a
Speaker 1: basic like one dollar or two dollar or three dollar amount,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing that might mean you're tipping a
Speaker 1: dent on the cup of coffee. And here, like, let's
Speaker 1: be clear, we're not trying to be cheap skates. Barista's rock.
Speaker 1: They can work really hard, but it is not a
Speaker 1: full service, like high end dining experience. But I think
Speaker 1: because those options are being presented, it can like guilt
Speaker 1: individuals into tipping more than maybe you otherwise would have,
Speaker 1: just because you're kind of stuck right there in the
Speaker 1: moment when they're looking at you. I think if that
Speaker 1: barrista gives me three spoons to choose from to stir
Speaker 1: my cream in the coffee, I would be willing to
Speaker 1: tip more. You're gonna always reach for the golden golden spoons,
Speaker 1: liver spoon. What're gonna do? I mean, I'll go either way.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not piggy, but yeah, so so what
Speaker 1: do we suggest, I guess in this new tipping environment,
Speaker 1: we would say one like Matt said, don't be a
Speaker 1: cheap skate, don't be cheap. We'd rather stay at home
Speaker 1: and eat than to eat out and to not tip.
Speaker 1: Well that is, you know, impacting somebody else's livelihood by
Speaker 1: sitting down eating the meal, taking up their time, and
Speaker 1: then not tipping as much as you should if you
Speaker 1: can do it properly, don't do it at all, exactly,
Speaker 1: And with many small businesses still on the road to
Speaker 1: recovery because of the pandemic, purposefully opting to tip more
Speaker 1: whenever and wherever you can, is it great strategy? Like
Speaker 1: we think you should intentionally choose and try to be
Speaker 1: more generous when it comes to tipping. When we talked
Speaker 1: about this a lot back last spring, back when all
Speaker 1: the restaurants were shutting down, it's just like, hey, make
Speaker 1: sure you're going out there and supporting your favorite restaurants
Speaker 1: because you want to make sure. Granted, this is before
Speaker 1: the ppp uh well, owning legislation went three when that
Speaker 1: wasn't enough for was not enough, I completely agree. But
Speaker 1: getting out there getting those gift certificate, it's making sure
Speaker 1: you're tipping extra, you know, on on top of whatever
Speaker 1: your order is. We're all about that and making sure
Speaker 1: that we are being active in our communities. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, you gotta find that balance, just like
Speaker 1: you're talking about earlier with the beer. We splurers on
Speaker 1: craft beer. But at a certain point, you gotta figure
Speaker 1: out what's reasonable for you, right. Yeah, we were even
Speaker 1: suggesting use some of that stimulus money to help your
Speaker 1: local economy, for sure, but we would say to make
Speaker 1: that choice ahead of time, and don't let those subtle
Speaker 1: tip nudges be the deciding factor in the moment, Like
Speaker 1: the iPad gets turned around in your direction and you're like, uh,
Speaker 1: like deer in the headlights, you clinch up. Exactly, I've
Speaker 1: been there and so I realized, you know what, I
Speaker 1: have to have a plan of action and before I
Speaker 1: get to this point or I hesitate in the moment.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we would say, don't be afraid to craft
Speaker 1: your own tip amount instead of using this suggested preset
Speaker 1: tip amounts and when you kind of have like, you
Speaker 1: know what, if it's a coffee shop, I tip ten percent.
Speaker 1: If it's this place, I tip fifteen. If it's this place,
Speaker 1: I tip or potentially even more if the service is awesome.
Speaker 1: You know, it might be worth it to have multiple
Speaker 1: categories for how much you're tipping. Those simple quick interactions,
Speaker 1: you mutant to tip LUs. For those bigger ones, For
Speaker 1: those finer dining experiences, those three FOURK restaurants, you might
Speaker 1: want to tip more. Totally. Yeah, let's talk about eating
Speaker 1: out with friends, because this can kind of be a
Speaker 1: tough etiquette scenario that you might find yourself in because
Speaker 1: we've probably all been in the place where we're trying
Speaker 1: to maybe save a little more money than our friends are.
Speaker 1: You're like over there ordering water, one of the cheaper
Speaker 1: items on the menu, and I get the water in
Speaker 1: the cheerios please, And then there's that that that one
Speaker 1: friend who's just like, hey, let's just put the bill
Speaker 1: down the middle. It totally sucks to be in that situation,
Speaker 1: but we feel this is an important lesson that we
Speaker 1: need to learn from because it's, like you said, it's
Speaker 1: toffer to have this conversation and after they've made that suggestion,
Speaker 1: it's tougher to make that decision after they've spun the
Speaker 1: little iPad around and it feels like you're in the
Speaker 1: hot seat. And so it might sound awkward to have
Speaker 1: this conversation about picking up your own tab ahead of
Speaker 1: that dinner out, but just being upfront about it is
Speaker 1: going to be the winning move. Go with that, you know,
Speaker 1: the slightly awkward chat earlier instead of the really awkward
Speaker 1: one later on. And another thing too, if you are
Speaker 1: you know, and you're like, oh no, like it's just
Speaker 1: fun to split the bill, well, not everybody thinks it's fun.
Speaker 1: If you're the one making that suggestion, we would recommend
Speaker 1: for you to think through, Okay, what did everyone order?
Speaker 1: Like did we order equivalent food or equivalent drinks? Because
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that if you are suggesting
Speaker 1: that that you're you're you're being fair. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: another really important thing to do, Matt. You're right, have
Speaker 1: the conversation ahead of time with that friend. Hey, last
Speaker 1: time you suggested splitting the check and guess what. Here,
Speaker 1: here's here's where I'm at with money, and here's what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to accomplish. And so for me, like, I'm
Speaker 1: totally down with going out to eat, but I'm trying
Speaker 1: to spend a whole lot less, So this time, can
Speaker 1: we just pay our own way. I think that's a
Speaker 1: great conver station have, and like really shouldn't make anybody uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: that's understandable. I think your friend will appreciate the fact
Speaker 1: that you mentioned and that you actually kind of opened
Speaker 1: up a little bit about what's going on with your
Speaker 1: you personally, what your goals are, and you know what,
Speaker 1: you just started a money conversation right there too, which
Speaker 1: school that could lead to some more interesting combos down
Speaker 1: the road, potentially even prodding them to, yeah, ask you
Speaker 1: some questions about oh wait, wait a second, wait, you're
Speaker 1: investing for retirement, like or people supposed to be doing that?
Speaker 1: Then uh yeah, it could be could I end up
Speaker 1: helping your friend out? Actually, in the long run, I
Speaker 1: think it's also okay to make an alternative suggestion. Your
Speaker 1: friend might have suggested a nice dinner out, but you
Speaker 1: might say, you know what, I don't even want to
Speaker 1: go out and drink water and get the cheapest thing
Speaker 1: on the menu. I'd rather just stay at home in
Speaker 1: order to reach my saving school and that's okay too,
Speaker 1: but be honest about that as well. So maybe say, hey,
Speaker 1: my eating out budget, it's really tiny right now, I've
Speaker 1: exhausted it for the month. How about you come over
Speaker 1: for a morning coffee hang instead. Your friend might be
Speaker 1: like relief to right, because they just want to hang
Speaker 1: out with you. They might not necessarily care about the
Speaker 1: fine dining experience. They might have like a lot of
Speaker 1: respect for you that you're letting your values drive your
Speaker 1: spending decisions. And so yeah, I think it's just important
Speaker 1: to have alternative suggestions ready. Just because that one thing
Speaker 1: they suggested didn't work out doesn't mean you can't offer
Speaker 1: up something I'll sorry, Hey, let's go for a hike
Speaker 1: on Saturday morning, Like, let's get outside for a high,
Speaker 1: go for a walk. How about you come over here,
Speaker 1: let's la have some coffee here and then we'll go
Speaker 1: for a walk instead of us meeting at a coffee shop,
Speaker 1: especially if like you make good coffee, Like I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily that kind of go French press, and I think
Speaker 1: it takes fine, but like I don't know my French press.
Speaker 1: My standards aren't high. But yeah, if you make like
Speaker 1: good pour over coffee or something your friend might be
Speaker 1: excited to come over and like, oh, give me some
Speaker 1: of that arrow press, right, yeah, it taste your stuff. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what's funny is that Kate and I are literally
Speaker 1: we we literally just did this. We are going to
Speaker 1: be having dinner with some a couple. They're college friends
Speaker 1: of ours, and we invited them over to our house
Speaker 1: before we're gonna and this is gonna happen tomorrow. Uh,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna have a drink at the house before
Speaker 1: we go to dinner. Uh. And it's for us, it's
Speaker 1: kind of less about being super frugal. The fact is
Speaker 1: four drinks at home is going to be a fraction
Speaker 1: of the cost of actually going out and all of
Speaker 1: us getting a cocktail while we're out. But then again,
Speaker 1: it comes down to the conversation how we're going to
Speaker 1: split the actual dinner bill. And I feel like we
Speaker 1: know them enough well enough to like I'm going to
Speaker 1: be the one probably to suggest that let's just play
Speaker 1: it down the middle, but just you know, given the
Speaker 1: conversation that we're having right now, like I am instead
Speaker 1: going instead of like suggesting it, I'm gonna maybe ask
Speaker 1: it and be like, hey, yeah, cool, if we just
Speaker 1: split it down the middle, because I think the act
Speaker 1: of asking rather than suggesting even that right there, can
Speaker 1: kind of open the conversation up to where someone feels
Speaker 1: a little less pressure to just go along with it,
Speaker 1: as opposed to being like, well, actually, do you mind
Speaker 1: if we kind of separate out where you know, maybe
Speaker 1: we're maybe they would say that they're on a budget regardless,
Speaker 1: you kind of want to set the table for just
Speaker 1: a nice, healthy conversation. I thought your classic move was
Speaker 1: when the bill came to go to the restroom for
Speaker 1: an extended period of time, maybe out the window. You've
Speaker 1: never actually done that, right, I'll cost you A friend
Speaker 1: keep saying it's almost like like, I mean, you say
Speaker 1: it with much confidence, uh, and it sounds like almost experience. No,
Speaker 1: I never pulled that one. Uh, never done the dining dash.
Speaker 1: Never done that to a friend either, And that's that
Speaker 1: would be the opposite of etiquette, So that would be cheap.
Speaker 1: Don't do that, all right, Let's let's talk to you
Speaker 1: mad about just kind of other maybe money things that
Speaker 1: pop up. This one is something that we've experienced as parents.
Speaker 1: Let's say, like, what's the etiquette surrounding contributing to a
Speaker 1: gift for a teacher at like your kids school. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like, similarly to planning ahead, you have to
Speaker 1: make sure you have room in the budget for stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and you have to know that those quote
Speaker 1: unquote unexpected expenses are going to happen, right. I think
Speaker 1: it's it's easy to get blindsided and say, wait, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't have money for that, like and you
Speaker 1: didn't know it was coming. But really, those are the
Speaker 1: things that we shouldn't cheap out on, and we should
Speaker 1: give something towards. And like, I think just setting aside
Speaker 1: something to the tune of twenty bucks a month for
Speaker 1: requests like teacher um or other things in that similar
Speaker 1: vein is a good idea. And I think that takes
Speaker 1: a whole lot of stress out of these requests for money,
Speaker 1: because yeah, they don't really come out of left field,
Speaker 1: even though we feel like they do. So playing ahead
Speaker 1: for them, give accordingly instead of like getting that stress
Speaker 1: ulcer every time that email comes through and you're like,
Speaker 1: I am I supposed to give money that now I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to do. And even just something simple like for instance,
Speaker 1: my son's school, he's too he's going to school a
Speaker 1: few days a week and they had a pumpkin patch
Speaker 1: and we took the time one to go volunteer and
Speaker 1: help set it up. But then we're gonna buy an
Speaker 1: overpriced pumpkin there because of the good that that money does.
Speaker 1: Like I could go to Aldi and give me a
Speaker 1: five dollar pumpkin, but I would rather spend the extra money.
Speaker 1: And this money goes to literally benefit his school and
Speaker 1: refugee families. And I'm like, I'm not cheating out of
Speaker 1: the pumpkin, Like, of course I'm putting my money there,
Speaker 1: but I have budgeted money for these kinds of purposes.
Speaker 1: And really that's what it takes so that you're not like, yeah,
Speaker 1: getting freaked out every time you get asked for money
Speaker 1: or something like this. Yeah, that doesn't mean that you
Speaker 1: should feel compelled to give to everything, right, Like, I
Speaker 1: think one of the other etiquette conundrums is when people
Speaker 1: ask for money in the moment, and even if it's
Speaker 1: not to our faces. Right. I'm talking about the rise
Speaker 1: of go fund me's online that you might see on
Speaker 1: social media. See them on Facebook, for instance, if someone
Speaker 1: has a birthday coming up, they might be raising money
Speaker 1: for a cause that they care about. But that doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that you have to be giving to that
Speaker 1: particular organization. Man, I see it all the time now,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, sorry, it doesn't mean I don't love you,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean I don't wish you a happy birthday.
Speaker 1: But there's I'm not contributing to pay well, and I
Speaker 1: don't feel guilted into that. Like. It also makes me
Speaker 1: think of two like giving money like in the grocery
Speaker 1: store checkoutline, that that is not something I participate in
Speaker 1: because almost all of my giving is pre planned, uh,
Speaker 1: and it is funneled towards the organization that I know
Speaker 1: and that I love. So this is an example where
Speaker 1: I think we believe it's better to be proactive and
Speaker 1: intentional with our giving rather than being you know, passive
Speaker 1: and casual about it. We don't want you to be cheap.
Speaker 1: Do give your money, but just make sure instead that
Speaker 1: you're taking the time to look up and read search charities.
Speaker 1: And you can do that via a site like Charity Navigator.
Speaker 1: That's a fantastic site that we've mentioned multiple times here
Speaker 1: on the show, where you can go online, you can
Speaker 1: look up the different organizations, you can see how much
Speaker 1: of the money that you give to give to them,
Speaker 1: how much of it goes towards expenses, how much of
Speaker 1: it actually goes towards the cause exactly. But you got
Speaker 1: I mean, but kind of going back to what you said, Jill,
Speaker 1: you kind of have to find that balance between being
Speaker 1: intentional and proactive. I feel like this is a perfect
Speaker 1: example of you and me, because I feel like you're
Speaker 1: a little more you know, a little going, you know, shooting,
Speaker 1: shooting from the hip a little bit um, whereas I'm
Speaker 1: like overly structured and or you know, organized. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, I feel like I do need to
Speaker 1: allow some margin in my life when it comes to
Speaker 1: maybe something like a over price pumpkin. Yeah, I have
Speaker 1: to be okay with that. I think there's like a
Speaker 1: difference in how I feel too when I give to
Speaker 1: something spur of the moment, usually like and I don't
Speaker 1: mind setting So I think it's okay to set aside
Speaker 1: in your budget some money for spur of the moment
Speaker 1: gifts if that's your thing. But for me, at least,
Speaker 1: they provide a really small, like feeling that I've done
Speaker 1: something good for a really short period of time. But
Speaker 1: when I have pre planned my giving, and I give
Speaker 1: it consistently to the organizations I already know and love
Speaker 1: and am connected to the work they're doing. That feeling
Speaker 1: the way I feel about where my money is going,
Speaker 1: it lasts longer and uh and so yeah, it really
Speaker 1: it's up to each individual how they want to give
Speaker 1: their money. But just be prepared in advance, know that
Speaker 1: you're going to get maybe asked at the grocery store,
Speaker 1: and be comfortable, like, you're not a cheap skate. You're
Speaker 1: not a bad person if you decide not to give
Speaker 1: in the moment consistently, Like if you always say no
Speaker 1: to that, that doesn't make you a bad person. If
Speaker 1: you feel like you're being generous, there you go with
Speaker 1: your money overall total. And let's talk about generosity, Matt,
Speaker 1: when it comes to like giving or a gift giving
Speaker 1: with family and friends. We are in October, and so
Speaker 1: people are planning for the holidays and there, um, if not,
Speaker 1: you should be because of shipping delays exactly. We talked
Speaker 1: about that a while back. You should be, yeah, actively
Speaker 1: looking to buy your Christmas presents now, not waiting till
Speaker 1: at the last minute because of some of those Yeah,
Speaker 1: shipping delays leading to product shortages. But this is really
Speaker 1: another uncomfortable spot that a lot of people find themselves in. Uh.
Speaker 1: And yeah, they're bound to be some awkward moments for
Speaker 1: lots of families who haven't communicated expectations well around holiday
Speaker 1: gift giving. And this is just another instance where it
Speaker 1: makes the most sense to get ahead of things and
Speaker 1: to clearly let your family know that one you love them,
Speaker 1: and to that maybe you're also working really hard to
Speaker 1: finally destroy your student loans. Can once and for all
Speaker 1: you can do both of those things at the same time.
Speaker 1: I can love you and destroy my student loans, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't the means I also, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: buy you a fifty dollar gifts and that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that's going to destroy our relationship because we're talking about
Speaker 1: it exactly, And that's really what it comes down to,
Speaker 1: right Like, maybe instead of giving those expensive gifts this
Speaker 1: year up to exchange time spent together or do some
Speaker 1: sort of secret Santa. But those are the conversations you
Speaker 1: probably want to start having now. You want to communicate
Speaker 1: the expectations, just like you're planning ahead in your budget,
Speaker 1: plan ahead and communicate well with your family so that
Speaker 1: you don't show up on Christmas morning or whatever it
Speaker 1: is and you've got nothing in hand, and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm saving money, guys exactly, don't you get it? But
Speaker 1: if you talk about that and open up those lines
Speaker 1: of communication far in advance, it's less of a shock.
Speaker 1: It feels less like you just didn't you just weren't thoughtful,
Speaker 1: and it feels more like, wait, they're being intentional here.
Speaker 1: We want to help them, support support them in that goal. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So on the note of gift giving, another real quick
Speaker 1: one here, what are your thoughts as far as the
Speaker 1: etiquette surrounding giving money as a gift? Uh? And as
Speaker 1: you think about this, I'll say, as a half Korean
Speaker 1: who has received my fair share of money, just straight
Speaker 1: up cash gifts from my mom's friends, fully Korean, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's maybe more of an Asian thing. But like, dude, like,
Speaker 1: as a practical guy that likes to talk about money,
Speaker 1: welcome cash the you know, like for like one of
Speaker 1: our kids, like when they're born, like when a baby
Speaker 1: is born, or for a wedding, It's easy for me
Speaker 1: to lash onto practical little side of that. But what
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that? Okay, So I think money
Speaker 1: is actually a better etiquette move than giving a gift card.
Speaker 1: And that's really I do. And I think it feels
Speaker 1: the opposite because a gift card feels more specific, it
Speaker 1: feels like a little bit. I know you like this store,
Speaker 1: so go buy yourself something night, but you get to
Speaker 1: pick something from that store. I'm not going to order
Speaker 1: you a meal. That's too personal. But when you look
Speaker 1: at the stats and you see the amount of money
Speaker 1: that goes unspent on gift cards each year, people get
Speaker 1: gift cards, they get tossed in the drawer, they never
Speaker 1: get spent. But do you ever not spend a hundred
Speaker 1: dollar bill that comes into your into your life or
Speaker 1: a fifty dollar bill. Yeah, it's cash, you're gonna spend it.
Speaker 1: So I think from that aspect, like I think the
Speaker 1: better etiquette is to give cash, and I think we
Speaker 1: can like bring less stigma around that and start giving
Speaker 1: cash more. I think the thing is to include a
Speaker 1: note that that is thoughtful and I says, hey, I
Speaker 1: know you and I know that this is something you like,
Speaker 1: and I don't know what you're gonna spend it on,
Speaker 1: maybe this, this or this, But yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: helps make it feel a little more personal and a
Speaker 1: little less like you just didn't know what they like,
Speaker 1: what they care about. Right. I like that, dude, I
Speaker 1: like that a lot. I think you could even include
Speaker 1: some stats about the percentage of gift cards that go
Speaker 1: on untapped. Yeah, just to convince them that you made
Speaker 1: the right This guy's a total do we a total nerd.
Speaker 1: But that is how we roll. All Right, we're gonna
Speaker 1: take a quick break, but after the break, we're finally
Speaker 1: going to get to talking about money and relationships. When
Speaker 1: it comes to dating, we'll get to that right after this. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're back. We're going to get to dating and marriage
Speaker 1: in just a second, I promise. But first I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about we we just talked about gift giving.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about lending money to family and friends, because
Speaker 1: that is another zone of money that it's fraught with peril.
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, that's the etiquette there when someone
Speaker 1: I love asks me for money. So we would suggest
Speaker 1: to really try at all costs to avoid being the
Speaker 1: borrower or the lender in this scenario whenever possible, And
Speaker 1: if you're the one borrowing money from a friend, pay
Speaker 1: them back as soon as possible, or at least when
Speaker 1: you say you're going to. If you're like, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get paid two weeks from now, I promise that
Speaker 1: hunter Bucks is hitting you back, hit you up at
Speaker 1: the end of the month, exactly. Friendships can easily get
Speaker 1: damaged if you don't, and if you're the one who's
Speaker 1: lending the money. It's also helpful to not think of
Speaker 1: it as a loan. So if your friend comes to
Speaker 1: you and says, hey, let me can I can I
Speaker 1: borrow Hunter Bucks and you say yes, don't expect to
Speaker 1: get paid back. Think of it as a gift that
Speaker 1: you're making to the person that you care about instead,
Speaker 1: and if you somehow get paid back, it's icing on
Speaker 1: the cake. Because if you don't view it that way
Speaker 1: and that person, uh, this abuses your trust and doesn't
Speaker 1: pay you back in a timely fashion, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: frustrating and it could cause damage to the relationship. But
Speaker 1: if you mentally are thinking of it like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give them some money, it's no big deal.
Speaker 1: If I don't give this money back and then, and also,
Speaker 1: don't lend any money that you can't afford to lend
Speaker 1: if you can't afford it, just be honest and say, listen,
Speaker 1: I don't have the money to give you right now.
Speaker 1: I love you, but how else can I help you out? Yes?
Speaker 1: I love that so much, dude. This also makes me
Speaker 1: think of co signing because this is kind of another
Speaker 1: form of lending your You're lending your good name, you're
Speaker 1: lending your credit to somebody, and even in parents in
Speaker 1: child relationships, it can become a source of contention. And
Speaker 1: so if someone wants you to help them to buy
Speaker 1: a car, for instance, with your good credit, like this
Speaker 1: is probably going to be a bad idea for you.
Speaker 1: When you co sign, you are telling the lender that
Speaker 1: you are going to be good for the money. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so instead, we would recommend that you kind of
Speaker 1: maybe see that ask from that individual as kind of
Speaker 1: the perfect way to start a conversation about how they're
Speaker 1: handling their money, like what is it that they can
Speaker 1: actually afford? Hopefully that can lead to I mean, if
Speaker 1: they feel comfortable enough asking you to co sign, hopefully
Speaker 1: they're open enough to handle some additional conversations about money. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, mom, dad, can you help me co
Speaker 1: sign for this brand? New Hanta Civic and it's like, wait,
Speaker 1: slow down there, let's let's let's see you know what
Speaker 1: I'm unwilling to do that. How much money do you
Speaker 1: have on hand? Can I help you purchase a used
Speaker 1: one and find the right used card that's gonna cost
Speaker 1: you a whole lot less? Like that opens up a
Speaker 1: gateway for a better conversation. And I do think I
Speaker 1: mean that parent child relationship it is a little bit different,
Speaker 1: like like there's I feel like there is a gray
Speaker 1: area here, especially if you have an adult child who
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't have a credit score and they're asking you
Speaker 1: essentially like you know that they're good for it, you
Speaker 1: know that they are incredibly responsible, but you just want
Speaker 1: to make sure that you've had these conversations with them
Speaker 1: ahead of time. You want to make sure that they
Speaker 1: are open to sitting down periodically and taking a look
Speaker 1: at how those payments are going. That type of thing. Uh,
Speaker 1: in real quick to joll there's actually another kind of
Speaker 1: awkward situation regarding the parent child thing. What are your
Speaker 1: thoughts when it comes to adult children who are also
Speaker 1: hanging out with their parents who are presumably adults, right,
Speaker 1: But like, when you get to that point to where
Speaker 1: the child starts to pay their own way for things,
Speaker 1: like saying you're gonna go out. You're in a situation
Speaker 1: where you can you can both afford things. But it's
Speaker 1: kind of like, all right, do we revert back to
Speaker 1: the mom and dad take care of everything kind of mindset?
Speaker 1: Are like, where do you think that line is? That's
Speaker 1: a really good question. I think it depends on both
Speaker 1: financial situations of both individuals, and I think as a parent, like,
Speaker 1: that's what I want to do for my kids at
Speaker 1: some point, once they've proven that they're responsible with money,
Speaker 1: like once they get get out on their own, once
Speaker 1: they have a solid job earning their own income. Once
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, they know what they're doing. I want
Speaker 1: to treat them in that way. But if it's one
Speaker 1: of those things where they keep coming back to the well,
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna be less enthusiastic. I think about, you know,
Speaker 1: paying for paying for dinner or paying for anything for
Speaker 1: them totally. Yeah. Like I think as a parent, like,
Speaker 1: as I see many kids get older, I mean, and
Speaker 1: we're like we're like that gates from this, But I'm
Speaker 1: trying to imagine what this would feel like. And I
Speaker 1: think I would want them to show some initiative, you know,
Speaker 1: like like say they're gonna come back home to visit. Uh,
Speaker 1: They've got a solid, you know, decent paying job. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not expecting them to like pay a certain thing,
Speaker 1: but like for them just to be like, hey, you
Speaker 1: wanted to pick up any groceries on the on the
Speaker 1: way back to the house for the weekend, Like that
Speaker 1: kind of thing that goes a long way and making
Speaker 1: you want to them. Yeah. And I feel the same
Speaker 1: thing like with my parents, Like they they're in the
Speaker 1: place now where they offer to buy things, but then
Speaker 1: I different things too, Like my parents they still do that.
Speaker 1: They came around and stayed in the beach house that
Speaker 1: we rented this past summer, and they were like, hey,
Speaker 1: can we pay for some of it? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: no way, Like this is my treat and it felt
Speaker 1: really good to do that. But then other times they'll
Speaker 1: pick up the tab at the restaurant when we're all
Speaker 1: go out, and it's like that's super sweet. It kind
Speaker 1: of depends on the situation, right, Like if you had
Speaker 1: like a few years of just really tough times at
Speaker 1: a job, maybe that you hated for them to have
Speaker 1: offered that would have not only been incredibly generous, but
Speaker 1: maybe welcome on your on your part. So I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it does kind of come down to
Speaker 1: the individual relationship with with you and your parents exactly,
Speaker 1: timing circumstances, that all that, that all really matters. Let's
Speaker 1: talk Matt about like more intense relationships. Welln't that more
Speaker 1: intense but more romantic? More romantic. Yeah, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: get into marriage too, But let's talk about dating for
Speaker 1: a second. And it can be really hard to know
Speaker 1: what the etiquette should be like when it comes to dating,
Speaker 1: and Matt, we just to be honest, we've been out
Speaker 1: of the dating world for quite a while at this
Speaker 1: point in time, you for like what fourteen fifteen years
Speaker 1: or fifteen years and me for eleven twelve years, and
Speaker 1: so we would suggest getting the uncomfortable stuff out of
Speaker 1: the way upfront. It's again, it's so much more awkward
Speaker 1: after the bill comes to talk about who is paying
Speaker 1: for what? And if you asked someone out, if you said, hey,
Speaker 1: I like you, can I take you out to eat
Speaker 1: or to wherever, offer to pay for the meal. That
Speaker 1: might sound old school, but it's our opinion that if
Speaker 1: you like someone enough to ask him out on a
Speaker 1: date and you plan something cool, then you pay for it.
Speaker 1: And of course it doesn't have to be fancy. I mean,
Speaker 1: it probably can't be McDonald's, but it certainly doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be the three fork restaurants, but more between three
Speaker 1: forks and plastic forks. Right, And if you don't have
Speaker 1: boatloads of dough for dating though, that's okay too. You
Speaker 1: could still date people. And so yeah, we would say,
Speaker 1: offer to pick up that love interest in your fancy
Speaker 1: like two Honda Kord or whatever it is, and then
Speaker 1: go for a hike. But yeah, or maybe meat for
Speaker 1: a picnic in a cool park on a beautiful day.
Speaker 1: You really don't need big money to wow someone who
Speaker 1: you've got a crush on. Sometimes sweet and Goofy goes
Speaker 1: a lot further, and just putting your actual foot forward
Speaker 1: like who you are, as opposed to putting like you forward,
Speaker 1: making it seem like you've got it all together. I
Speaker 1: think sometimes people appreciate that. Most of the time, people
Speaker 1: appreciate that authenticity, even if it doesn't seem like that's
Speaker 1: what's going to be received. All seems like you're putting
Speaker 1: a whole lot of stock in the sweet and goofy guy.
Speaker 1: That's all I got. Someone's like talking to their their friends,
Speaker 1: they're like, well, downside he's he's broke, he doesn't make
Speaker 1: a lot of money, but on the up side, he's
Speaker 1: really sweet and goofy. And you know, we we feel
Speaker 1: that if like you're more or less like the one
Speaker 1: who's being treated to a date, like, definitely don't be
Speaker 1: the person who orders like the most expensive thing on
Speaker 1: the menu and then also like the second, third, fourth
Speaker 1: glass of wine. Uh. Instead, you know, be respectful, take
Speaker 1: the lead of the person who you're on the date with.
Speaker 1: That certainly feels like the respectful kind of path to take,
Speaker 1: at least for in my opinion. One other thing, I
Speaker 1: think it can be kind of sweet to offer to
Speaker 1: go Dutch as well, where you you're both paying your way.
Speaker 1: But you know, bottom line, we don't need to be
Speaker 1: the ones here to to tell you that virtually everything
Speaker 1: you do and say feels like it's under kind of
Speaker 1: like the the dating microscope when you're out on a date, right,
Speaker 1: But it is true that there are counless decisions that
Speaker 1: communicates something specifically your thoughts on money to a date.
Speaker 1: While you're out on a date, and if you're the
Speaker 1: one ordering that fourth glass of wine, well, whether you
Speaker 1: realize it or not, you are communicating something to them,
Speaker 1: and so you just want to make sure that you
Speaker 1: are sending the right signals. Yeah, and it goes both
Speaker 1: ways too, because if you are crushing on somebody and
Speaker 1: you've initiated multiple dates and you show up to every
Speaker 1: one of them with like a gift every time, it's
Speaker 1: like flowers. Yeah, yeah, and I like care, I'm all
Speaker 1: about giving my wife gifts, bringing flower some stuff like that.
Speaker 1: You've talked about your tulips, but especially as you're getting
Speaker 1: to know somebody, um, and you don't know that very well.
Speaker 1: If you're bringing something fancy every single time, it starts
Speaker 1: getting out of hand. Yeah, you're communicating that you're a
Speaker 1: big spender, whether or not you have your finances in
Speaker 1: shape and a more frugal receiver of these gifts. They
Speaker 1: might not be used to you know what, these lavish
Speaker 1: gifts that you're bestowing, And that's okay. But if that's
Speaker 1: something that matters to you and you know, hopefully you
Speaker 1: have your money game together, that's okay, go for it.
Speaker 1: But more than anything else, just make sure that you're
Speaker 1: being yourself. I think sometimes in the dating world it's
Speaker 1: easy to get caught up in spending more money than
Speaker 1: you feel comfortable doing. And you know, if you're actually
Speaker 1: trying to find like a life partner, that's not really
Speaker 1: what you're going for. You want them to kind of
Speaker 1: recognize who you are, corks and all and somebody. I
Speaker 1: promise somebody will love you for for those for those things.
Speaker 1: You don't have to put on a front to win
Speaker 1: somebody over. Sure. Yeah. So on a related note, we
Speaker 1: actually had a listener who emailed recently about dating etiquette
Speaker 1: and they wanted to know about using a coupon on
Speaker 1: a on a date. So Joel, Yeah, what is your
Speaker 1: money etiquette meter say in regards to that, Okay, I
Speaker 1: don't want to date anybody or like be married to
Speaker 1: anybody who isn't cool with me using a pupon right, So, like,
Speaker 1: we likely you found the right person, right. So we
Speaker 1: we regularly get these like mailers every month, and one
Speaker 1: of our favorite restaurant almost always has a coupon in there.
Speaker 1: It's right around the corner. It's a nice restaurant too,
Speaker 1: It's like a two fourth place and uh, it's so
Speaker 1: I'm I'm totally going to use the coupon if I've
Speaker 1: got it, and you know what, it's a nice place
Speaker 1: to eat out. And I think if you feel shame
Speaker 1: in the coupon game because of what someone else might think,
Speaker 1: then you need to get over it, because if they're
Speaker 1: gonna if you're a coupon type of person used to coupon,
Speaker 1: and if the person that you're going on a date
Speaker 1: with isn't down with that, I think, um, maybe it
Speaker 1: wasn't meant to be. And again, like each one of
Speaker 1: these decisions is like, these are instances where you're communicating
Speaker 1: to your your date, to your partner where you stand. Uh,
Speaker 1: and yeah, if you are all about coupons, you want
Speaker 1: to make sure that you've got somebody who can join
Speaker 1: you on the coupon filled future. All right, Joe, let's
Speaker 1: take it to the next level. Let's talk about kind
Speaker 1: of like want to clarify I'm not a crazy extreme
Speaker 1: cupon Okay, Now, honestly, I think this is like the
Speaker 1: only time in your life when you do use coupons. Right,
Speaker 1: It's very rare that I actually use coupons, But I mean,
Speaker 1: if I get one and it's a place that I love.
Speaker 1: I'm going to use it. All. Right, let's talk about marriage.
Speaker 1: Let's take it to the next level. There's this term
Speaker 1: that's kind of gotten more popular in recent years, and
Speaker 1: that phrase is getting financially naked. Have you you've heard,
Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about this. For sure. Once you've
Speaker 1: progressed beyond the dating phase, you're considering spending maybe some
Speaker 1: serious amount of time with an individual, maybe you're thinking
Speaker 1: about getting married, then it is time to get naked
Speaker 1: financially speaking. And that's because we feel that relationships that
Speaker 1: are going to endure, uh, they have a foundation of honesty,
Speaker 1: Like they are based on transparency and honesty. And so, man,
Speaker 1: this is the period of time that, yes, it's important
Speaker 1: to understand how your partner communicates, and yes it is
Speaker 1: important to be respectful. But man, I feel that all
Speaker 1: etiquett kind of goes out the window at this point
Speaker 1: in time. It's about kind of stripping it down to
Speaker 1: the numbers. Uh, there's no hiding at this point in
Speaker 1: your relationship. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, you don't
Speaker 1: want to necessarily do this on the first date, right, No, No, no,
Speaker 1: of course, not like Hey, what's your name again? By
Speaker 1: the way, here's my credit score and the amount of
Speaker 1: dat I mean it. Uh, that's that's a bad time
Speaker 1: to be a little too forward, just like other ways.
Speaker 1: You could be more forward with a date, right, but
Speaker 1: you've been dating for eight or nine months and you've
Speaker 1: talked about getting serious and marriages maybe even on the
Speaker 1: radar whatever. That's when you do want to start sharing
Speaker 1: some of these things. You don't want to hide, even
Speaker 1: your financial mistakes. And you know what, even those mistakes
Speaker 1: probably have bread some better habits, right, we all learn
Speaker 1: from those mistakes. So it's important to yea even in
Speaker 1: that conversation, say, you know what, here's almost student loan debt.
Speaker 1: But um guess what I'm gonn listening to this podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm getting better with my money. And that's a good
Speaker 1: spur for a conversation. And you being open is going
Speaker 1: to make them feel more comfortable being open to and
Speaker 1: that's a good thing because yeah, who doesn't want to
Speaker 1: someone to love them warts and all. Like that's what
Speaker 1: we always say, you know, we want someone to love
Speaker 1: all of us and then richer for poor baby, and
Speaker 1: then we hide a lot of who we are. Oftentimes
Speaker 1: and yeah, you don't want to continue down the path
Speaker 1: of a relationship if it feels superficial, because yeah, beyond
Speaker 1: this point, you're committed to each other and you know
Speaker 1: that your partner's problems are going to become your problems
Speaker 1: when you tie the knot, And so you want to
Speaker 1: know what you're actually getting into. And if this is
Speaker 1: a topic you've managed to avoid so far, let's say
Speaker 1: you have been dating someone seriously for quite a while,
Speaker 1: maybe waiting into those waters with a conversation talking about
Speaker 1: employer benefits in four oh one case is the way
Speaker 1: to go, Like, ease on into it, don't like immediately
Speaker 1: jumped to like how much debt do you have? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you you can start easy. You can start simple,
Speaker 1: get more comfortable as you go, getting a little bit deeper.
Speaker 1: But it's time, like if you are getting serious with somebody,
Speaker 1: you gotta know their financial standing and you've gotta be
Speaker 1: honest about yours too, one man, you know, like, honestly,
Speaker 1: the more financial secure I get, the more I get
Speaker 1: excited about being generous. And that's not something we're really
Speaker 1: talking a whole lot here, but it's like I've become
Speaker 1: more likely to pick up that breakfast check with a
Speaker 1: friend when we go out, or maybe even kind of
Speaker 1: tipping more than I usually would, And I think that's
Speaker 1: pretty cool, Like it's it's it's where I want to
Speaker 1: see my money and going. But realize that, like I
Speaker 1: know that not everyone is in that position, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of what we're talking about here today. You know,
Speaker 1: when you're talking with your friends, it can be tough
Speaker 1: to hit all the right notes on the money etiquette front.
Speaker 1: But hopefully we feel that this episode will we'll give
Speaker 1: you a little more confidence to maybe suggest something more
Speaker 1: affordable when you're making plans with your friends, or you know,
Speaker 1: to create that custom tip amount for maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit less than the suggested amount, or maybe this will
Speaker 1: encourage you to talk about money a bit more freely,
Speaker 1: just in general and definitely upfront. Communication is going to
Speaker 1: be key when your etiquette moves involve others. We're all
Speaker 1: likely gonna kind of come down on different sides of
Speaker 1: the issue based on our individual circumstances. And here's the
Speaker 1: thing that is okay, Like that is the thing that
Speaker 1: makes each of us unique, that makes each of us
Speaker 1: our own. But when it comes to our friends or
Speaker 1: our romantic partners. You want to make sure that you're
Speaker 1: having open and clear conversations about these things, uh, and
Speaker 1: that you're not afraid to talk about it. Right. If
Speaker 1: I had warm buffet money, I'd probably tip five dollars
Speaker 1: on every coffee I got, and no matter what, on
Speaker 1: every meal I ate out right. So you know, as
Speaker 1: you reach different levels of financial fitness financial independence, you
Speaker 1: can be if you want, more generous with that money
Speaker 1: that's coming into your life. But I think to some
Speaker 1: of these norms, Matt, like you said about choosing your
Speaker 1: own tip amount, like that, those norms are worth break, king,
Speaker 1: it's uh, And these are some of these are barely established,
Speaker 1: not even new norms, and so why are we holding
Speaker 1: to them? Like we're gonna be booted out of civilized
Speaker 1: society if if we don't, you know, and the the
Speaker 1: you're not welcome here anymore? Right, And the norms for
Speaker 1: for so many people is to be in debt up
Speaker 1: to their eyeballs because they are they're buying everything. They're
Speaker 1: being um generous with money they don't even have sometimes
Speaker 1: and you know, you and I were all about living differently,
Speaker 1: being even a little weird. Sometimes, Um, you don't want
Speaker 1: to necessarily needlessly ruffle feathers. But we think that there
Speaker 1: are ways for you to handle your money well, to
Speaker 1: have solid etiquette, but not necessarily doing what everyone else
Speaker 1: around you is doing, and ultimately communicate well, be honest,
Speaker 1: be honest with yourself, and be honest with the people
Speaker 1: around you. I think if you are doing those things,
Speaker 1: if you're being authentically you, then you're gonna come out okay.
Speaker 1: But Matt, let's come back to the beer. This is
Speaker 1: a collaboration beer by Burial up there in Asheville, North Carolina,
Speaker 1: one of our favorites, A fantastic New England style I
Speaker 1: P A and I was I feel like I picked
Speaker 1: up on some kind of like tropical, some sort of
Speaker 1: fruit vibes which you oftentimes don't get with the New
Speaker 1: England style I P A and I was happy to
Speaker 1: see that on the label it talked about some freeze
Speaker 1: dried New Zealand savignon blanc skins, and so I'm kind
Speaker 1: of like, oh, okay, maybe that's where some of the
Speaker 1: maybe slightly more fruity notes came from. But it lent
Speaker 1: it this brightness, uh that I appreciated and that you
Speaker 1: oftentimes don't find with the New England I p A. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it also had some hops from New Zealand as well
Speaker 1: in this beer, and I feel like some of those
Speaker 1: hops from like literally the other side of the planet
Speaker 1: have some really interesting flavor. Some of the coolest I
Speaker 1: pas I've had have had like Australian or New Zealand hops,
Speaker 1: and so this was a really good beer. I don't
Speaker 1: know what they're doing differently when it comes to hops
Speaker 1: down there. Maybe they can just grow stuff that we
Speaker 1: can't appear in the States. But yeah, this was a
Speaker 1: really good beer. And really, anytime Barrel makes a beer,
Speaker 1: I'm down to try it down there in New Zealand,
Speaker 1: they the hops grow count of clockwise stuff clockwise, right,
Speaker 1: they grow like down into the ground like carrots. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you know I got to each into way
Speaker 1: one of these beers during this episode. And we will
Speaker 1: make sure to share a picture of this beer, as
Speaker 1: well as any other additional resources or links that we
Speaker 1: may may have mentioned during this episode up on our
Speaker 1: website at how to Money dot com. Yeah, and of course,
Speaker 1: Matt and I, we appreciate you listening, especially to the
Speaker 1: very end of the episode like this, right, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't be anywhere without the kind folks, the awesome
Speaker 1: folks at least, the people we've met that listen, and
Speaker 1: the how the money crowd is a special crowd. So
Speaker 1: thanks for thanks for always being there for the show.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we hope you have a great rest of
Speaker 1: your day. So Matt, that's gonna do it. Until next time.
Speaker 1: Best friends Out, Best Friends Out,