1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie Ooh and Samantha, and welcome to Stuff. 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: I'm Never Told your protection of I Heartradio's House to Works. 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: We've been doing that intro for a while now and 4 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: I just did it out of memory for the first time, 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: and I'm feeling really proud of myself because I couldn't 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: you probably could. Um for this this classic episode, we 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: wanted to to bring back one that Kristen and Caroline 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: did UM called Daddy's Girls, about the relationships between fathers 9 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: and daughters. And we recently did an episode on daddy 10 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: issues and they touch on this on that whole thing 11 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: a bit in this episode, and um, It's just been 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: on my mind recently and I've always kind of been 13 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: curious about we just have interesting I find instinct dynamics 14 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: in our society about the relationships between children and their parents. 15 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: So inevitable, inevitable. You're right, there's a quote I wanted 16 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: to say, but I forgot it immediately, So do is useless. Useless, 17 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: But this episode is not useless, and we hope you enjoy. 18 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff, Mom Never Told You from how stupp 19 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 20 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And this episode is part two 21 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: of Weird Parental Psychology Week because in the last episode 22 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: we talked all about the Mama's Boy trope, and today 23 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about daddy's girls and daddy issues, 24 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: right because you know, we we started off our Mama's Boy, 25 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: which I know you listened to. We started off our 26 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: Mom's Boy episode talking about kind of the darker side 27 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: of not only being a mom's boy, but what people 28 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: assumed about you and what that meant. Hitler, Yeah, we talked. 29 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: We talked a lot about Hitler, a lot about Hitler. Um. 30 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: We're not going to talk about Hitler this time that 31 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: I know of, Kristen Um, but we are going to 32 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: talk about daddy issues because that is never meant as 33 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: a positive thing. No, it's not. And it hadn't occurred 34 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: to me until I don't know what I was reading, 35 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: but I was on the internet and someone made some 36 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: quip about, you know, insulting a woman by calling by 37 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: saying that she must have daddy issues and a little 38 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you. Belle went off in my 39 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: brain thinking, why is that's a thing? Why is that 40 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: I mean not not why our daddy issues a thing, 41 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: although we will talk about that, But why is that 42 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: this pop cultural knee jerk insult directed at women and 43 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: a lot acted at feminists. Now, for our international listeners 44 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: who might not be so familiar with this term, daddy issues, 45 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: for a little bit of a very casual definition of 46 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 1: what it is. According to the Urban Dictionary, it's whenever 47 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: a female has a screwed up, for the podcast, relationship 48 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: with her father or absence of a father figure during 49 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: her childhood, so it tends to spill into any adult 50 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: relationship they embark on, usually to the chagrin of any 51 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: poor male in her life. So stereotypically, women with daddy 52 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 1: issues are needy, obsessive, dramatic, insecure and looking for love 53 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: and all the wrong places. Well that'll be in my 54 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: head for the rest of the day. Um. But it's 55 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: also tacked onto women and girls who are specifically attracted 56 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: to older men, and just people assume that something's got 57 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: to be wrong with you. If you're attracted to somebody 58 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 1: who's even a little bit older, Yeah, you must be 59 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: secretly wanting to have sex with your father. And then 60 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: there's a whole idea that vocal feminists must certainly of 61 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: toxic relationships or Harvard hatred towards their dad's because why 62 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: else would they have an express distaste with a patriarchal 63 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: status quo feminists be heaven daddy issues that that is 64 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: one of the most like just the hallmark of a 65 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: trollish criticism that you will get on the internet if 66 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: you talk about gender equality long enough. Not that it's 67 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: ever happened to me. And for the record, I love 68 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: my dad. I have a perfectly healthy relationship with him. 69 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: But why am I even having to defend that? I 70 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: don't know, Kristen, I don't know, because we're about to 71 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: talk about why that's so good that you have a 72 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: relationship with your dad. Yeah. So there is a whole 73 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: bunch of research on the dynamics and effects and impacts 74 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: of the father daughter relationship, I would say even more 75 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: so comparing it to what we read about for our 76 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: Mama's Boy episode. It seems like this father daughter relationship 77 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: has been put even more so under the academic microscope 78 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: than the mother's son relationship. Yeah, Whereas it seems like 79 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the Mama's Boy research, You know, if 80 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: there was any academic psychological research was all really early, 81 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: and it was all super negative and awful, and it 82 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: was all sort of justifying why being a mama's boy 83 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: is so terrible. It was very homophobic, very homophobic. Whereas 84 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: the studies into being a daddy's girl or having quote 85 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: daddy issues or whatever, it's much more um encouraging of 86 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: that relationship, yeah, encouraging if you have an active paternal presence, 87 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: it's very pro dad being involved with her daughter. Whereas 88 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: on the flip side, there's a lot of panic where 89 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: if you have a negative relationship or non existent relationship 90 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: with a father figure, then you will have a lot 91 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: of premarital sex, which we will get into more. There's 92 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: a lot of sex panic surrounding this whole daddy issues 93 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: and daddy's girl things. So there was a two thousand 94 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: fourteen study published in the Men's Studies Press called Fathers 95 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: in the Dorm Room The Unique Influence of Fathers and 96 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: Mothers on Young Adult Functioning, And it was really fascinating 97 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: because it wasn't so much focused on the father daughter relationship, 98 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: but rather just the paternal influence on kids, sons and 99 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: daughters alike and how they developed psychologically, their self esteem, 100 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: rates of depression, and previous studies cited in this two 101 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen study note how dad's in particular have a 102 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: very strong influence, even stronger, some would say, than moms 103 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: on young kids. Yeah, so they cited a study, for instance, 104 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: that found that father's acceptance might correlate stronger to children's 105 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: psychological adjustment versus mother's acceptance. Similarly, a two thousand eight 106 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: study found that a father's indifference was more related to 107 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: children's scores on measures of depression, and a two thousand 108 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: to study looked at father's sensitivity during toddler play and 109 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: tied it to predicted attachment representations and adolescents versus the 110 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: mother's influence. So all of these studies are pointing to 111 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: dad having a super strong influence on all all number 112 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: of things. Yeah, and this isn't just within American culture. 113 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: A lot of these study findings do apply across culturally 114 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: as well. And in this study sample the kids that 115 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: they looked at for the father's in the dorm room, 116 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: which is such a creepy image study, they found that 117 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: father's acceptance was substantially more variable than mother's acceptance levels. 118 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: And this is a theme that you see come up 119 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: a lot when it comes to the father daughter relationship. 120 00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: This idea that we sometimes as children take our there's 121 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: love for granted, whereas a father's love and acceptance of us. 122 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: I think that acceptance party is really important, is something 123 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: that we feel like we have to earn. Yeah, and 124 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: so I had like like a real, like real talk 125 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: moment with myself when I was reading these studies. Yeah, 126 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: I was real talking, real talking to myself like, hey, 127 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: you you're all right, You're right, But no, I I 128 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: can feel this, uh from my own experience because my mother, 129 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: I'm an only raised an only child, uh, and my 130 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: mother was like we were super close. I was more 131 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: of a mama's girl than a daddy's girl. Even though 132 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: my dad and I were always close and had a 133 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: good relationship, but it always felt like, oh, well, I'm 134 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: always perfect in my mother's eyes, Like she's always going 135 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: to think I'm perfect and that I'm the prettiest and 136 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: the best and the smartest. Um. Whereas my dad is 137 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: a little more on the stoic side. And so it's 138 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: like I knew he was proud of me, but I 139 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: really felt like I had to work harder to earn 140 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: that pride and that acceptance and that attention. I can 141 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: completely empathize with it, and and that seems to like 142 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: a common theme that you see in in this study 143 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: in fact from two thousand and fourteen about how we 144 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: as kids are really attuned to and sensitive to um 145 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: our father's levels of acceptance and also rejection. And one 146 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: key quote that jumped out to me in the study 147 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: discussion was that parental acceptance and rejection may be perceived 148 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: as a reflection of the self's social worth. Thus, low 149 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: acceptance and high rejection by fathers compared to mothers may 150 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: carry more negative psychological consequences. Dad's beware interesting well. Psychologist 151 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: Peggy Drexler, who's the author of Our Fathers, Ourselves UM, 152 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: talks about the fact that many daughters this is a quote, 153 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: many daughters idolize their fathers because they don't know them 154 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: well enough to to see their flaws and therefore desire 155 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: his approval. She talks a lot about how stereotypically, uh culturally, 156 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: the father is working outside the home more, maybe he 157 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: travels more than mom does, maybe mom's home more, being 158 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: the primary caregiver, And it's that whole like allure of 159 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: this powerful man outside the house and if he's oh well, 160 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: if he's so powerful and needed out there, then obviously 161 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: he's like a big shot. And there's that whole idea 162 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: that dad is this sort of other figure. He's a 163 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: little bit more distant from us than Mom, who is, 164 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 1: you know, very close in terms of being a caregiver. 165 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: So we've got to work harder and try to impress 166 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: him more. Although I do have a feeling that narrative 167 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: is rapidly changing as you do have more stay at 168 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: home dads for instance, or moms who are the breadwinners, 169 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: and and dad's in general just being more invested in childcare. 170 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: And I think that would be a good way, for 171 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: a positive way for it to be evolving. Um, but 172 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: if we look a little more closely to at that 173 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: father daughter relationship, not just looking at kids in general, 174 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: looking now at dad's and daughters, what kind of dynamics 175 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: tend to emerge. So there's also this common refrain that 176 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: fathers are the first men whose love girls seek out. 177 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: And a lot of this, too, you have to keep 178 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: in mind, is coming from a very heteronormative framework. Um, 179 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: there's this important importance of the father figure in terms 180 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: of you know, being that that first guy that whose 181 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: love and affection girls want to win over is based 182 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: on the assumption that you know, in the in the future, 183 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: she will be seeking the love and affection of other men, 184 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: and so dads thus established our earliest models of what 185 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: we expect relationships with men to be like. And then 186 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: our relationship attachment styles, which we've talked a lot before 187 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: on the podcast anxious attachment, secure attachment, et cetera. Then 188 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: flow from there, thanks or no thanks, death. Yeah, I 189 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: mean I can I can totally see how this this 190 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: goes beyond just like being a stereotype and something that 191 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: people assume. I can totally see how dad would be 192 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: a model, and psychologist Jennifer Cromberg basically says, yeah, Yeah, 193 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: basically that's that's how that works. She says, in my 194 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: years of psychology practice, I've met very few women who 195 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: didn't unconsciously or consciously pick a romantic partner based on 196 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: her dad. Talking about it's true for whether she a 197 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: woman dates a man because he's like her father or 198 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: because he's nothing like her dad. Somehow, it's all based 199 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: one way or another on her relationship with her father. Yeah, 200 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: And we actually did a podcast a while back now 201 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: called Dewey Mary Our Parents, which if you want, if 202 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: you want to dig more into this kind of psychology, 203 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: you can head over to stuff Mom Never Told You 204 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: dot com and look in our podcast archive, which you 205 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: can get to by clicking on the podcast tab and 206 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: scrolling all the way down and you'll see a button 207 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: browse all of our podcasts and the episode title is 208 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: do We Marry Our Parents? But back to dads and daughters. 209 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: What daughters say they want more from their dads and 210 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: perhaps to divert these so called daddy issues, that negative 211 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: baggage that we you know, hear about so often in 212 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: a very flip kind of way. Um. According to a 213 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven study in contemporary sexuality, what daughters in 214 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: the in this case, college aged daughters wanted more from 215 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: their dads was quote understanding men, suggesting ways to deal 216 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: with pressure to have sex, sharing their own experiences about adolescence, 217 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: dating insects when they, as in the ads, were adolescents, 218 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: communicating values, providing more information on sexual risk topics, and 219 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: being more open and comfortable when talking to their daughters. 220 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: Because this entire study was looking at how dads talked 221 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: to their daughters about sex and the answer is not 222 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: very much, because that's uncomfortable. As a lot of the 223 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: male psychologists they talked to say, yeah, it can be 224 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: uncomfortable if you are a dad to talk to your 225 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: daughter about sex, because then it gets into questions of 226 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: what did you do dad, and then having to stay 227 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: out loud well, I was young and horny once, and 228 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: then the awkward silence that ensues. Right, Yeah, the whole 229 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: idea about dad being all like, hey, kiddo and poling 230 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: around with you before puberty, and then puberty hits and 231 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: suddenly dad feels like he's in an awkward like just 232 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: talk to your mother face. Yeah, because I'm sure for 233 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: a lot of dad's there's you know, a line that 234 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: they want to respect and don't want to cross. But 235 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: also to you hear from these these older daughters saying 236 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: that they, you know, wish that there had been more 237 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: recognition of the fact that, yeah, they were growing up 238 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: and that's not a scary thing, and it would have 239 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: been nice from that primary model of what men are 240 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: like in relationships to have one that's open and honest 241 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: and able to talk about things like sex. Yeah, But 242 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: to be fair, neither of my parents talked to me 243 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: about sex, so that one, that one wasn't all on dad. Yeah, 244 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: this is true, and I mean my mom definitely talked 245 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: to me more about it, and the messages that I 246 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: got from my dad about sex were more in the 247 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: sense of no, you don't want to know what happens 248 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: in a boy's mind, which, for the record, people not 249 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: a good message to give to your daughters. Well, Kristen, 250 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: we have a lot more to talk about, but first 251 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break. 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Right now, you can use 262 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: our promo code stuff to access a special offer. It's 263 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: a no risk trial that includes a bonus offer with 264 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: a digital scale up to fifty five dollars of free postage, 265 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: So don't wait. Go to stamps dot com before you 266 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: do anything else. Click on the microphone at the top 267 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: of the homepage and type in stuff that stamps dot 268 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: com and enter stuff. And now back to the show. 269 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: Speaking of messages that dads are giving their daughters, what 270 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: happens when daughters don't have those ideal, strong, warm relationships 271 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: with dad. Study looked at stress responses that women experience 272 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: and found that those who had reported relationships with their 273 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: dad characterized by rejection, chaos, and coercion ended up having 274 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: basically higher stress hormone levels, so cortisol levels and and 275 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: but before a task that they anticipated to be stressful, 276 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: and had higher cortisol in response to a problem discussion 277 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: with a friend. They were also more likely to self 278 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: disclose about psychosocial stressors. Yeah, that disclosure thing is something 279 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: that comes up a lot in terms of corelates behavioral corelates. 280 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: For women who have dysfunctional relationships with their dads, there 281 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: is a lot more disclosure going on. And I'm not 282 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: sure why, but that was just something that I noticed 283 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: from the research. Um, But in that particular instance, the 284 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: opposite was true for the women who you know had 285 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: self reported father daughter relationships characterized by warmth, autonomy, support, 286 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: and structure. They actually on a physiological level, managed stressful 287 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: situations better. And Caroline, you know, what is incredible to 288 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: me is the fact that this relationship has been studied 289 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: down to a physiological level. Did you see any physiological 290 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: biological studies about the influence of mother's relationship on their 291 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: sons and how they manage stressed Definitely not. There were 292 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: just a handful that talked about aggression versus emotional literacy. 293 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: It's fascinating when you compare what we what we focus on, uh, 294 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: in terms of you know, studies and all that. When 295 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: it comes to the risky behavior, risky business comes up 296 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: a lot in father daughters studies. There was a two 297 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen study which found that female participants who reported 298 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: low psychological presence from their dads were likelier to engage 299 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: in risky behavior like drug use and hookups. And there's 300 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: also a two thousand six study in the Journal of 301 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: Black Psychology which found that girls with involved dads were 302 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: less likely to use illegal drugs. And that's a pattern 303 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: that comes up over and over and over and over again, 304 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: and all of these studies is that you know, absent 305 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: or dysfunctional relationships with dads are usually correlated to risk 306 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: here behavior which usually just is a catch off or 307 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: drug use, alcohol use, tobacco use, and premarital sex and 308 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: teen pregnancy interesting not sliding down a long hallway within 309 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: just a button up in socks listening to Bob Seagery. So, 310 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: and of course this all ties into relationship habits as well. 311 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: This is what we talk a lot about when you 312 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: think about women with quote unquote daddy issues. But other 313 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: studies have shown associations between negative relationships with dad's and 314 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: relationship self esteem, overall self disclosure, and overall self silencing 315 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: in romantic relationships. And then when it comes to sex. 316 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: This is kind of echoing when I just said a 317 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: minute ago. There's a two thousand three study in child 318 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: development which found that girls with absent fathers were likelier 319 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: to become pregnant, and I'm assuming that means teen pregnancy. 320 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: And other studies have also correlated again absent or dysfunctional 321 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: dads with not just uh sexual promiscuity, but lower sexual 322 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: confidence in daughters, which psychologists would say would then lead 323 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 1: to that quote unquote risky behavior. So there is a 324 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: lot of concern echoed over and over again about will 325 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: a bad dad lead to essentially a promiscuous daughter. There's 326 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: a lot of focus just on that sex behavior of 327 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: the daughter, right and uh. Catherine Hutchinson and Julie cedar 328 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: Baum in a study looked at women who talked about 329 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: their father's kind of encapsulating them and in this whole 330 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: daddy's girl role and found that these according to these women, 331 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: in their perspective, their father's inability to see them as 332 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: anything but little girls was actually a barrier to father 333 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: daughter sexual communication. The father refusing to see his daughter 334 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: as either a grown up woman or as a developing adolescent, 335 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: refusing to accept it that she's anything other than daddy's princess. Well, 336 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: and in that situation too, I think those those relationships 337 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: weren't necessarily seen as negative ones. These were dads who 338 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: were involved in their daughters lives and were very present 339 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: and loving towards their daughters. But like you said, just 340 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: crystallize them in this you know, prepubescent phase and kind 341 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: of can't move beyond that. I can't think about sex, 342 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: doesn't want to talk about sex, noop, et cetera. Yeah, 343 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: and so let's talk a little bit though about daddy 344 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: issues in Daddy's Little Girls in pop culture, because that 345 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: was a large focus of the Mama's Boy episode because 346 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: it became so deeply ingrained in mid century American culture. 347 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 1: So what about when it comes to Daddy's Girls. And 348 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: we'll talk more about that when we come right back 349 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: from a quick break and now back to the show. 350 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: So it's about time we got around to talking about 351 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: Freud because we mentioned him so much in our Mom's 352 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: Boy episode, and we also mentioned the whole post World 353 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: War two period when a lot of societal fears and 354 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: anxieties cropped up, not only around mothers and their children, 355 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: but also homosexuality and what that meant as a changing society. Yeah, 356 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: and there was just this really intense focus on psychoanalysis, 357 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: and particularly psychoanalysis through that edible framework, kind of the 358 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: placing perhaps too much importance and fear on the child's relationship, 359 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: particularly with the opposite sex parents. And Tulane history professor 360 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: Rachel Devlin actually wrote an entire book about this in 361 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: two thousand five called Relative Intimacy, Father's Adolescent Daughters and 362 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: Postwar American Culture, and she argues in it that the 363 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: whole daddy issues Daddy's Girls thing was a combination of 364 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: two forces, one being the popularity of Freudian psychoanalysis, and 365 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: then also the rise of female delinquency because you have 366 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: in post World War two America for the very first time, 367 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: teenage culture really being this big thing. I mean, even 368 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: if you look back at Life magazine at the time, 369 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: they have feature stories on like what being a teenager 370 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: is because it's this sort of new phase in life 371 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: and it has this whole culture and consumer culture around it. 372 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: After the war, and with that, you also see the 373 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: rise of female delinquency, and you can see it on 374 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: screen through classic films such as Rebel Without a Cause, 375 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: And there was a fear about these these female delinquents, 376 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: these girl gangs. What's going on? Well, blame their dads, 377 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: I know. Well, it's so funny to see those anxieties 378 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: blown up like that. It's just like, oh, my god. 379 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: You mean, women are women, and young girls are developing 380 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: their own sort of like personalities outside of the home, 381 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: and they're they're becoming teenagers and that is so scary. 382 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: She's wearing lipstick? Oh no, what does that mean? Can 383 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: you imagine what they would have done if they had 384 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: seen spring Breakers clutched their pearls. For sure, Broyd would 385 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: have been like, oh, I got a lot to say. 386 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: But Devlin talks about how during this time, girls perceived 387 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: misbehavior was explained as a paternal failing. She says that 388 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: girls were seen as being not sufficiently edible connected to 389 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: their fathers, and this whole edible framework that Kristen mentioned 390 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: was a way to try to control and reintegrate girls 391 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: into the family. But what surprised me, considering the way 392 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 1: we talked about Freud on this podcast, what surprised me 393 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: is that Freud thought this whole perception was warped. He 394 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 1: himself thought that these urges needed to be overcome, not maintained. 395 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: Freud thought that sure, girls and young women have to 396 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: go through this, pass through this phase of like having 397 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: this relationship with their dad, but they the key is 398 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: that they have to then pass through it right well. 399 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: And one example that she calls out in terms of 400 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: maintaining rather than overcoming, was through the use of lipstick. 401 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: This is an actual thing. She said that it was 402 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: thought at the time that girls who were allowed to 403 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: wear bright lipstick, which was in vogue with their father's 404 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: blessing would be sexually well developed. Whereas dads who forbade 405 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: their daughters to wear lipstick, we're arresting their daughters sexual development. 406 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean talk about some loaded lipstick, interesting band, 407 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: new band name? Well, I mean because two in this 408 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: is in the what forties and fifties, and only a 409 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: few decades prior, wearing wearing rouge on your lips would 410 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: have been something only a stage actresses would do. And 411 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: you know what stage actresses do? They act and they 412 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: and they flown a kate. But she then ties that 413 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: to this idea of a new fatherhood that began emerging 414 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties. This is when we slowly see 415 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: the development of dad's roles starting to change, gradually becoming 416 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: more involved and becoming more of an expected part of 417 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: the paternal role, not just to go out and bring 418 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: home the bacon and be the provider, but also provide 419 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: emotional security as well. And when the depression hit, it 420 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: had an interesting influence on the father daughter relationship. And 421 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: this is coming from the book American Sweethearts Teenage Girls 422 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: in twenties Century Popular Culture, and Alana Nashy, author says 423 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: that the trophy daughter idea thrived in the depression, when 424 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: the proliferation of sub deb as in debutante images in 425 00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: popular culture address the perceived crisis of masculinity, suggesting that 426 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 1: Daddy was still a real man and that his masculinity 427 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: was not lost entirely in the crisis as long as 428 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: he could protect his angelic little girl. So daddy's little 429 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: girl is going to be showered with gifts. He is 430 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: going to, you know, buy all these things for her 431 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: to protect her and also in the process assert his 432 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: own masculinity, which is being threatened by this economic crisis 433 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: of the Great Depression. That is interesting the layers on 434 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: that one. It's probably not the same thing as when 435 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: my father a couple of years ago asked if if 436 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: I wanted him to take me find china shopping. I 437 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: was like, do you really do you think I'm never 438 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: gonna get married. You're just gonna step up to the 439 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: plate and buy me some some plates. Maybe you wanted 440 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: to assert his masculinity or something. Maybe he has a 441 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: secret love for ceramics, Caroline, he could I don't know. 442 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, we don't know everything about 443 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: our fathers. This is true. But that's interesting because has 444 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking in a in a time frame 445 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: of the depression, or a lot of nash is talking 446 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: about a time frame of the depression. But I mean, 447 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: now we have something similar if you look at things 448 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: like moving on from debutantes up to the popularity these 449 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: days of like purity balls and stuff. Oh yeah, the 450 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: purity balls being uh, events that are more typically associated 451 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: with evangelical Christianity and the whole virginity pledge thing. There 452 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: are these events called purity balls where fathers will escort 453 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: their daughters to a prom like event where or and 454 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: it's sort of a prom and also a coming out 455 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: kind of event where dads will pledge publicly to protect 456 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: their daughters sexual purity, and then the daughters sort of 457 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: pledge themselves to their dads as well. There's definitely a 458 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: lot of interaction between what we've been talking about and 459 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: that phenomenon. But in all of this, I mean, you 460 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: could argue that all of that sounds pretty weird, but overall, 461 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot more social acceptance for daddy's 462 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: little girl, daddy's princess, things like that, even like grown 463 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: women saying it versus mama's boy, which is definitely pathologized. Yeah, 464 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: because what have we seen in all of this research, 465 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: there's this, you know, hammering home over and over again, 466 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: this idea that if you have a solid relationship with 467 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: your dad as a female, then you are well adjusted, 468 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, and there it kind of like can't And 469 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: the only way that it starts to get so close 470 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: that people start turning their noses up at it is 471 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: when it becomes almost too financially involved, where she becomes 472 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: the spoiled little princess rather than just daddy's little girl, 473 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: but a woman who is codependent on her father in 474 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: the same way that a guy might be codependent on 475 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: his mother that we call him a mama's boy. Those 476 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: are perceived very differently, it seems like, even even today, 477 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: and speaking of Peggy Drexler, the author of Our Fathers, 478 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: Ourselves and the Psychologists, the one big type of father 479 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: that she calls out in her book that she sort 480 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: of has no patience for is the dad who really 481 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: fosters the whole daddy's little girl image, not in the 482 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: sense of like wanting to have a close relationship with 483 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: her his daughter, but dads who sort of want to 484 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: almost over put put their daughters in a bell jar 485 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: in a way to protect them from everything, because she 486 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: says that it might render them incapable of self actualizing 487 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: as adult women, because these dads want to hold onto 488 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: them because maybe it's a need to assertain masculinity. Maybe 489 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: it's a fear, you know, the of knowing themselves as younger, 490 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: horny men and not wanting to think about that in 491 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: the context of their sexually maturing daughters. Um, but yeah, 492 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: she's she's not look kindly upon that. That's funny, Like, 493 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I never got the impression that 494 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: my dad wanted to keep me his little girl forever. 495 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: I got the impression more that he was off to 496 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: the side, like, ah, she's growing up, and I'm just 497 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: I'll just be over here. I don't, I can't watch. 498 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: Not that he was like super comfortable with me, like 499 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: dating or anything. It was more that he's like, I 500 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: don't want to know. I don't want to know, don't 501 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: don't tell me. But Rachel Devlin, who we mentioned earlier, 502 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: also looks at these contemporary father daughter relationships from an 503 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: interesting perspective. She says that they're more commercially oriented as 504 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: evidenced by things like MTV show My Super Sweet Sixteen. Yeah, 505 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: in case you haven't seen this reality show, and I 506 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: don't know that it's still on the air, it showcases 507 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: a lavish, over the top sweet sixteen party for a kid. 508 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: A lot of times it's a girl who is usually 509 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: pretty spoiled, gets everything that she wants and usually ends 510 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: with someone getting a new car. And it's always interesting 511 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: in the show too, or thinking back on the show. 512 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: It's not like I'm sitting at home still watching it 513 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: these days, but I watched it enough in my youth 514 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: to know that every now and then the mom always 515 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: played a larger role in the show because the dad 516 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: was off doing whatever, making these bookoo bucks to pay 517 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: for this party. And when he would show up, though, 518 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: he would always be the one handing over the keys 519 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: to the car and like looking proud as a peacock 520 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: to be showing off how well he was providing for 521 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: his lovely daughter coming of age. Look at look at 522 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: what he's doing. It's that trophy daughter idea, which is uh, 523 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: which is really fascinating to think about, right, But I mean, 524 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: I think what you just said illustrates what Devlin is 525 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: talking about. As far as the monetary exchange being used 526 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: as a way for fathers to distance themselves from their 527 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: daughters sexual development, well, yeah, because it probably feels more 528 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: appropriate to make purchase to demonstrate your love because, as 529 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: Dad's can probably attest, when you know, girls start to 530 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: their daughters start to mature, all of a sudden, they 531 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: get boobs when you hug them, it feels different than 532 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: when you hug them as little girls, and showing them 533 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: physical affection could get uncomfortable maybe for them and for 534 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: their daughters. And so yeah, I could totally see the 535 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: consumer side of it being a distancing factor or a strategy, 536 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: I should say. But one thing that we've touched on 537 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: but haven't really gotten into is the fact and we 538 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: we talked about this a little bit with Mama's Boys 539 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: and that they're just different dynamics going on. If it's 540 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: the same sex couple raising kids, then it is with 541 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: our stereotypical mother father household that has been studied to death. Yeah. 542 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing for both of these episodes, Mama's 543 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: Boys and Daddy's Girls is can goodness those phrases just 544 00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: burnt holes in my brain. Uh, It's interesting to talk 545 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: about both of them at this time when I feel 546 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: like the role of mother and father is very much 547 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: in flux and almost it's starting to meld together into 548 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: this broader role of just being a good parent and 549 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: it not being so gender specific. Um, because you know, 550 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: like you said, they are now plenty of two parent 551 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 1: households with kids who are doing perfectly well where there 552 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: is neither a father or neither a mother, depending on 553 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: which kind of same sex couple it is. And there 554 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 1: was actually an article in The Advocate called the Lesbian 555 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: Dad and talking about how there are some gender nonconforming 556 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: lesbians who are more comfortable with their kids calling them 557 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: dad or a derivative thereof, Like they profiled one woman 558 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: who preferred to be called Baba rather than being called 559 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: mom or mommy, because particularly with the mommy, there's just 560 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: there's just no identification with that label. What's however, and 561 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: I can understand that, I mean, I oh, thinking myself 562 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: being called mommy? Nope, well, I mean, you know, this 563 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: also goes back to an episode that Kristen and I 564 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: did a while ago on the division of household labor. 565 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: Basically that even the most like progressive, forward thinking man 566 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: woman feminist couple even those couples can tend to fall 567 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: back to gender norms when it comes to the division 568 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: of household labor, whereas if you have same sex couple, 569 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 1: the traditional household duties are more equally distributed. Yeah. And 570 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: there was a study among sweetest children and lesbian households 571 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: that came out in and it concluded based on interviews 572 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: with these kids that they quote described daddy's as the 573 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: same as mummies, and that's mummies with you because it's 574 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: from Sweden and I really enjoy that. Um So, in 575 00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: other words, in these kids minds who are being raised 576 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:05,959 Speaker 1: in these lesbian households with very egalitarian setups, the both 577 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: parents had sort of similar functions, you know, like daddy's mummy, 578 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: mummies daddy and everybody's happy. Yeah. I think we are 579 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: at an interesting tipping point socially and culturally as far as, 580 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: like you said, people realizing the importance of just being 581 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: a good parent, whether you are male or female, whether 582 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: your mom or dad or Bobba, whoever you are, and 583 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: the importance of you know, being loving and caring to 584 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: your child, regardless of what role you feel. Well. And 585 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: I also know of some straight couples as well where 586 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: the father tends to engage in more stereotypical maternal activities 587 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: with the child, and vice versa with the mom. Maybe 588 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: the mom is a little more outdoorsy and tends to 589 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: have a little more rough and tumble play with the kids. 590 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: So I think, if anything, it's a positive sign that 591 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: there is more acceptance of how there can be fluidity 592 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: in these roles. But when it comes to though, Caroline, 593 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 1: this whole daddy issues thing, can we circle back to 594 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: the daddy issues insult? It? I don't know, is it 595 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: is it a is it a phrase that we need 596 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: to retire? Oh, I'd like to see it retired. I mean, 597 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, it is always such an ugly insult to 598 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: say to somebody. Yeah, I mean it's also used a 599 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: lot if you just google around different combinations with it. 600 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: It is used a lot in headlines as a clever 601 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: turn of phrase to indicate that there there's some kind 602 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: of problems somewhere, like oh this you know, this organization 603 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: has daddy issues or whatever. So I don't know, I 604 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: just feel like it's so hackneed in cliche that, um, 605 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 1: maybe maybe we need to move beyond the daddy issues thing, 606 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: or maybe I'm just also tired of it. You know 607 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: everyone's that all feminists have daddy issues. Yeah, all right, 608 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: let's let's retire it collectively. We'll agree to do it. Okay, 609 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: all right, listeners, all right? Well, and also listeners, now 610 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. We want to know 611 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: about your own dad daughter relationship, good, bad, non existent? 612 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: How has that impacted you? And also what are your 613 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: thoughts on the whole daddy's little girl thing daddy issues? 614 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: Do you think it should be retired or do you 615 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: think that it is useful in some applications. Let us 616 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: know all of your thoughts. Mom Stuff at how stuff 617 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: works dot com is where you can send us your letters. 618 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us a mom stuff podcast and 619 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: send us a message on Facebook as well. And We've 620 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: got a couple of messages that have nothing to do 621 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: with dads to share with you right now. I've got 622 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,279 Speaker 1: to let her here. From Hannah in response to our 623 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 1: Women's Wanderlust episode, she writes, I wanted to mention a 624 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: few observations I've made while traveling alone. I made my 625 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: first alone trip to India ten years ago at twenty one, 626 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: and I've kept going back ever since. And the part 627 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: of the observation of hers that I wanted to share 628 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: with listeners. Is this My biggest problem traveling in India 629 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: as a woman has been finding toilets when on long 630 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: trips through rural areas. I've had to talk many a 631 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: bus driver into keeping the whole bus waiting while I 632 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: wander off, usually into some potentially snake infested field, to 633 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: find a discreet spot. Women in saris will often just 634 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 1: lift their skirt on the side of the road, and 635 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: wearing pants makes it more complicated. The lack of facilities 636 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: for women in India is a well known problem, and 637 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: of course much more serious for the local women who 638 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,879 Speaker 1: risk getting raped when looking for a secluded space. For me, 639 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: it's a mere annoyance. As for the distinction between traveler 640 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: and tourists, I would just say that someone who insists 641 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: on calling herself a traveler and not a tourist is 642 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: just a very pretentious tourists. And I do think solo 643 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: travel can make you a bit self absorbed in the 644 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,959 Speaker 1: long run. Whenever I've come across some of those self 645 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: proclaimed off the beaten track travelers who've been roaming around 646 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: for years, I make a sport out of timing how 647 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: long it takes them to ask a single question about 648 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 1: anyone else. I've experienced having hour long conversations in quotes 649 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 1: about the wonderfully intriguing travels of such people without even 650 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: having been asked for my name. This turned out, This 651 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: letter turned out long, and I could go on and on. 652 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: Sorry about that, and thanks for making my early commute 653 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: to work enjoyable. It sounds like she's running into some 654 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: not so great travelers see what I did, or tourists. Yeah, 655 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: so thanks Hannah. Okay, I have a letter here from Gabby. 656 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: She says, Hello, ladies. Hello, I'm a Brazilian actress and 657 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 1: have discovered your podcast recently. Hello, welcome. So your podcast 658 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: on fat bottom girls was especially interesting for me. I 659 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: grew up in a culture it's really butt center. That 660 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: is my own analysis, but I feel that globalization is 661 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: changing preferences in Brazil in front of my own eyes. 662 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: As in the nineties, most people would choose butts over breasts. 663 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,760 Speaker 1: In the two thousands, globalization had a boom in quote 664 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: and since then middle and upper class males have been 665 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: paying more attention to breasts. The culture and cult of 666 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 1: the bottoms were left to the lower classes that can 667 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: be seen very specially in the music scene inside Brazil slums. 668 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: A really popular rhythm is called funk karaokea that valorizes 669 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: a cultural vision really similar to the North American rap. 670 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: The lyrics and dances tend to be really sexualized by 671 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: men and women and quite focused on the bottoms. So 672 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: thank you, she signs it lots of love from Brazil 673 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,320 Speaker 1: and lots of love to you, Gabby. As a new listener. 674 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,399 Speaker 1: We appreciate your letter, yes indeed, and we appreciate all 675 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: of your letters. Keep them coming. Mom Stuff at house 676 00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: stuff works dot Com is where you can send them 677 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: or can always get in touch by tweeting us a 678 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,440 Speaker 1: mom stuff podcast or messaging us on Facebook and for 679 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: links to all of our social media's as well as 680 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: all of our blog post, videos, and podcast including this one, 681 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,760 Speaker 1: which also includes our sources so you can follow along, 682 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,399 Speaker 1: head on over to stuff mom Never Told You dot 683 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: com or more on this and thousands of other topics 684 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 1: does it how stuff works dot com.