1
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,480
Speaker 1: You're listening listening to a tenderfoot TV podcast. Girls.

2
00:00:22,479 --> 00:00:26,320
Speaker 2: Hello everyone, welcome to Inside krit County, your exclusive backstage

3
00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,320
Speaker 2: pass to the show. Today, I'm sitting down with Kyle Tequila,

4
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,639
Speaker 2: the creator and host of Krick County, to dig a

5
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,600
Speaker 2: little deeper into his process of turning a personal life

6
00:00:34,599 --> 00:00:37,880
Speaker 2: story into a top ten podcast. Before we get started,

7
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,960
Speaker 2: this interview is full of spoilers, so if you haven't

8
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,000
Speaker 2: listened to the show yet, I recommend that you pause,

9
00:00:43,839 --> 00:00:46,919
Speaker 2: go binge the entire season on Tenderfit Plus and then

10
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 2: pop back in. Hey, Kyle, thanks for sitting down with

11
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:55,320
Speaker 2: me today.

12
00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:56,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, happy to be here, Laura.

13
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 2: I'm really excited to connect. And you know, this show

14
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,320
Speaker 2: is so personal to you that I feel like I

15
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,719
Speaker 2: already kind of have a sense of who you are,

16
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 2: as do I imagine everybody else that's listened, especially on

17
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,319
Speaker 2: Tenderfoot Plus, where we just get to binge the entire

18
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:16,119
Speaker 2: story in twenty four hours, which is what I did. Wow,

19
00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,999
Speaker 2: it's really engaging, you know, and I'm excited.

20
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 1: This whole thing's been a whirlwind. I'm kind of speechless,

21
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 1: so but thank you very much. It's amazing to hear stuff.

22
00:01:23,199 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 2: Like that, So you're a film producer, and you have

23
00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,040
Speaker 2: a lot of other creative outlets, not necessarily podcasting. So

24
00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,800
Speaker 2: why did you decide to create this show as a

25
00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,479
Speaker 2: podcast and not as a film.

26
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,759
Speaker 1: That's a good question. Well, yeah, I've been producing movies

27
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:43,080
Speaker 1: since twenty thirteen, and anyone who is in the industry

28
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,880
Speaker 1: knows just how much of a behemoth producing a movie is,

29
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,920
Speaker 1: and how awful and stressful, and how much of a

30
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,359
Speaker 1: nightmare it is, and how it can collapse at any moment.

31
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 1: And if you're not fully committed and like twenty four

32
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: to seven on with your brain and you can't leave

33
00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,600
Speaker 1: any other life except getting this movie off the ground.

34
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,400
Speaker 1: It's exhausting and it's a lot. And so I'd done

35
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,359
Speaker 1: probably seven movies or so in some kind of producer couldpacity,

36
00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,880
Speaker 1: and I'd also been editing movies and working as what's

37
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 1: called like a post production supervisor on a bunch of

38
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 1: other movies. I was just really really burned out. I

39
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 1: think by the time this story really started to kind

40
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,079
Speaker 1: of come into fruition production wise, and I'd finished two

41
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,200
Speaker 1: movies in a span of two years, and they both

42
00:02:28,359 --> 00:02:33,239
Speaker 1: were coming out in theaters like with pretty significant releases.

43
00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 1: In like May and June of twenty twenty Wow, which

44
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,119
Speaker 1: we all know, the theaters were completely closed because of COVID.

45
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,559
Speaker 1: So both those movies just were completely decimated at the

46
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,279
Speaker 1: box office. And it was like I killed myself trying

47
00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 1: to get those two movies made, and so like just

48
00:02:49,799 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 1: all that happening and then it just kind of going nowhere.

49
00:02:53,519 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 1: Just it really hurt. It really was a big blow,

50
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 1: and and I just wanted nothing to do with the

51
00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 1: industry for a while. And you know, I had been

52
00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 1: recording the interviews with my dad on this show for

53
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 1: a while, and you know, the seed of the idea

54
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,679
Speaker 1: to turn it into a podcast, besides just being kind

55
00:03:08,679 --> 00:03:11,840
Speaker 1: of like a family archive, really, which was my original intent,

56
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 1: was just to get these stories because I had no

57
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,640
Speaker 1: idea how long he had left to live, because he

58
00:03:15,679 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 1: was such a mess, and so I just wanted to

59
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,920
Speaker 1: have them so I can share him with with my

60
00:03:19,959 --> 00:03:22,400
Speaker 1: family and my son when he was old enough. I

61
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 1: didn't really listen to podcasts. I think I probably listened

62
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 1: to Cereal when it came out, the first one because

63
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,239
Speaker 1: it was just like this huge, you know, nationwide thing

64
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,399
Speaker 1: that everyone was talking about. But I didn't really it

65
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: wasn't really into the podcast thing, and then for some

66
00:03:34,359 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 1: reason someone told me about Up and Vanished season one

67
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 1: and I listened to that, and I think that that

68
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,800
Speaker 1: kind of blew me away because it wasn't just people

69
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 1: talking like there was so much production value that pain

70
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,040
Speaker 1: put into it, you know, so much sound effects and

71
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 1: he really took the time to make it sound good

72
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,040
Speaker 1: and get the right microphone and mix it and you know,

73
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,880
Speaker 1: getting makeup and vanity set to do the music on that.

74
00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 1: It just felt like a theater of the mind. It

75
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,360
Speaker 1: felt like a movie. And so that was when I go,

76
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 1: oh my god, I could I could do that with

77
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,800
Speaker 1: Krook County or it wasn't Krok County at the time,

78
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: it was just with my dad's fucked up story. And

79
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 1: so then I started developing it as a podcast series

80
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,040
Speaker 1: at that time. And then when COVID hit and I

81
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,720
Speaker 1: was just so burned out of the industry, it was

82
00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,880
Speaker 1: the perfect time for me to really do the to

83
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 1: do the show, to make it happened. And so I

84
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 1: had a pilot episode prior to COVID actually done, sent

85
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,400
Speaker 1: it to MAVs actually after I heard Up and Vanished

86
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,960
Speaker 1: and I heard that score I was still producing one

87
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,800
Speaker 1: of those movies that was coming out in twenty twenty,

88
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,560
Speaker 1: and I wanted him to score the movie, and so

89
00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 1: that's how I initially reached out to him for that,

90
00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 1: and he, you know, we became kind of best friends.

91
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,719
Speaker 1: And then when I had the pilot for the podcast,

92
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 1: I sent it to him and he was like, this

93
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,240
Speaker 1: is great. I'm gonna send it to the guys if

94
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 1: you don't mind. Was like, absolutely so, and then they

95
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 1: loved it, and they came to La and we met

96
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,720
Speaker 1: up at a coffee shop and we struck a deal,

97
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,279
Speaker 1: and then we seemed to be off to the races.

98
00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:07,040
Speaker 1: But I was still so burned out. Even though mentally

99
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to do this podcast, I like just physically

100
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,680
Speaker 1: couldn't sit down and edit. Like I was just so done,

101
00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,120
Speaker 1: and so nothing really happened until twenty twenty three, when

102
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 1: I kind of like cleared that cash, you know, of

103
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 1: like whatever disappointment and pain and anguish and and and

104
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,840
Speaker 1: started getting creative again and just started cutting it, just

105
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 1: crushing episodes, just really getting into it. And I was

106
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: I was just in the zone and pumped out a

107
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,720
Speaker 1: bunch of episodes and I called Donald up I'm like,

108
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 1: you still want to do the show, and he's like yeah.

109
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 1: So over the next year, we finished the show and

110
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,720
Speaker 1: you sold it, and we developed a plan to get

111
00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 1: it out there, and now here we are. It's very exciting.

112
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 1: So it's a long journey to say the least. Yeah,

113
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,600
Speaker 1: but I think I think it was totally worth the

114
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 1: wait to wait till now.

115
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I mean the fact that the show, the

116
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 2: actual production, once you got into the weeds of building

117
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,440
Speaker 2: each episode and then producing each episode, the fact that

118
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,240
Speaker 2: that took about a year makes a lot of sense

119
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 2: to me because it is a very highly produced in

120
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,720
Speaker 2: a good way show. You know, there's so many elements

121
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,800
Speaker 2: to it. There's so many sound clips that you pull

122
00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:21,360
Speaker 2: in from news, and like it really brings people into

123
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 2: the world that you grew up in and that your

124
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 2: dad was living in. And I think, you know, if

125
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,800
Speaker 2: you'd put a show together in three months, it obviously

126
00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 2: would not have had nearly as many layers or depth.

127
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 2: So yeah, that time really shows.

128
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of because it's really just me

129
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 1: in a room, yeah, doing all this by myself. So

130
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,520
Speaker 1: it's literally just a lot of me just kind of

131
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: like just staring at a space and letting my brain

132
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,160
Speaker 1: go kind of fucking trying to pull threads and like

133
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 1: make a story happen. And it's a lot of self

134
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,800
Speaker 1: reflection too, So yeah, it does take all that time

135
00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 1: to really get it right.

136
00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 2: Another creative outlet that you have in the show is

137
00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,080
Speaker 2: your music. I think it's a really awesome easter egg

138
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,280
Speaker 2: for listeners. I didn't realize initially that that was your

139
00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 2: band that was in the soundtrack. Can you talk a

140
00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,560
Speaker 2: little bit about Starry Is music and the songs that

141
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,160
Speaker 2: you featured in Crik County and how that all fits

142
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 2: into the show.

143
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's kind of like one of those things.

144
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 1: Another reason why I'm glad it didn't happen before twenty

145
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: twenty and when I first started doing the pilot, it's

146
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 1: because I didn't have a band. I'd always been in

147
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: music when I was a kid, Like that was the

148
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 1: thing that I wanted to do, Like I got my

149
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,760
Speaker 1: first guitar at ten, and I was I started an

150
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 1: original band at ten. We were called Malice, and it

151
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,720
Speaker 1: was just like really heavy, like dark alternative, you know,

152
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,960
Speaker 1: like ten year olds for ten year old long hair

153
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 1: and like paint black fingernails. I was a little goth kid,

154
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 1: and I played bands all throughout high school. I was

155
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,440
Speaker 1: in punk bands, and I was in the Chicago scene

156
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 1: that you know, spawned fall Up Boy and the Academy

157
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,880
Speaker 1: is and we were playing shows with fall Up Boy

158
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,120
Speaker 1: and garages and vfw's and community senators and like we

159
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 1: had this amazing punk rock scene. Obviously that turned into

160
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 1: like this huge nationwide phenomenon and in the early two

161
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 1: thousands it just went crazy. But by the time it

162
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 1: all went crazy, I had my dad was dealing with

163
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,480
Speaker 1: heroin addiction, and our family was falling apart. And it

164
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,320
Speaker 1: was like, I don't have the freedom anymore to like

165
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,360
Speaker 1: go out and be like a rock star and you know,

166
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,120
Speaker 1: or pretend to be a rock star and and like,

167
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 1: you know, be completely irresponsible and be broken. Like I

168
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 1: had to get a fucking job. And I got into film,

169
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,160
Speaker 1: which almost is dumb.

170
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 2: And uh, but it's glorified.

171
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 1: There's at least kind of like jobs, you know, And

172
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 1: so yeah, I got into film. And in college I

173
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 1: went to SIU Southern Illinois University. I met this like

174
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 1: group of nerds that had this TV show that aired

175
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 1: on the Midwest PBS affiliate, and it was like a

176
00:08:44,199 --> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 1: docuseries show, Like they would record these little five minute

177
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,560
Speaker 1: documentaries that they'd drive all over the country. They'd find

178
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,760
Speaker 1: these crazy stories, they'd interview them, they'd shoot them, they'd

179
00:08:53,839 --> 00:08:56,320
Speaker 1: come back, they'd edit it themselves, and then we packaged

180
00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:57,999
Speaker 1: into this little show and it would air on PBS

181
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 1: and it was an amazing show, and it was an

182
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,960
Speaker 1: amazing experience, and we ended up winning a ton of

183
00:09:01,959 --> 00:09:05,320
Speaker 1: Emmys and it was a huge eye opener, like I

184
00:09:05,319 --> 00:09:08,239
Speaker 1: could actually do this as a career, and so a

185
00:09:08,319 --> 00:09:10,319
Speaker 1: huge confidence boost. And I met a lot of the

186
00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 1: people that I ended up working with like in my

187
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,240
Speaker 1: career through that show. Like a lot of these people

188
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,479
Speaker 1: moved to LA And before I moved to LA, I

189
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 1: actually moved to Atlanta. That's where I started my real

190
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 1: career as an editor. I was editing a bunch of

191
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,400
Speaker 1: stuff for tn T and TBS and movie trailers and whatnot.

192
00:09:24,959 --> 00:09:27,640
Speaker 1: But back to the music thing, So music kind of

193
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,520
Speaker 1: went away. The guitar basically was collecting dusk on the

194
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:35,400
Speaker 1: wall and then same thing COVID hits and I'm completely

195
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,400
Speaker 1: burned out and I hate everyone and and I'm like,

196
00:09:40,599 --> 00:09:42,960
Speaker 1: I just like, what am I doing with my life,

197
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,160
Speaker 1: and I started playing guitar again and it was like

198
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,679
Speaker 1: this spark just lit and it was like, oh yeah,

199
00:09:47,719 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: I used to fucking love music, and so I just

200
00:09:52,079 --> 00:09:54,359
Speaker 1: like couldn't. I became obsessed and I'm like, I need,

201
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 1: I need to write songs. I need to do something.

202
00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,079
Speaker 1: And so I went on Craigslist, good old Craigslist, and

203
00:09:59,319 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 1: I found this dude, John who had like it was

204
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,440
Speaker 1: him and a drummer, and they had a bunch of

205
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,520
Speaker 1: songs that they had written, but it was just instrumentals,

206
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,280
Speaker 1: and they were like looking for a vocalist singer for

207
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,880
Speaker 1: like three years, and I, you know, craigslisted them back

208
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,040
Speaker 1: and I'm like, hey, send me your demos, and they

209
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:17,920
Speaker 1: sent me the demos and they were great. They were

210
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,000
Speaker 1: the songs, and so I started writing the lyrics and so, yeah,

211
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,679
Speaker 1: like the songs that are in the main titles and

212
00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,800
Speaker 1: the end titles Aloha, Crush and No Show, a lot

213
00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:30,440
Speaker 1: of that. I mean, all of it really is about

214
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,840
Speaker 1: those issues and about my dad's heroin addiction, about me

215
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,480
Speaker 1: trying to put him the rehab, about him telling me

216
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,600
Speaker 1: this fucked up story about his life and how am

217
00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,239
Speaker 1: I supposed to deal with that shit? Like, what does

218
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 1: that mean all that? So when this whole thing actually

219
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 1: came together in twenty twenty three as a show, the

220
00:10:44,079 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 1: music was there, the podcast was there, and it was

221
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,599
Speaker 1: just this perfect marriage to kind of like put everything

222
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,000
Speaker 1: together in one package and completely just like hurt all.

223
00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,959
Speaker 1: It was like it just the biggest therapy session ever

224
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,320
Speaker 1: to get it out. So I feel so light, I

225
00:10:57,319 --> 00:10:59,599
Speaker 1: feel like I can fly right now. Just really happy

226
00:10:59,599 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 1: to have all this shit off my back.

227
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,439
Speaker 2: So note to anyone who's dealing with really tough family stories,

228
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 2: make a podcast, publish it to millions of people.

229
00:11:07,839 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 1: And.

230
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,960
Speaker 2: Write an album. Yeah, music is a really incredible way

231
00:11:12,959 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 2: to process anything. Absolutely, is there anywhere that people can

232
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,719
Speaker 2: go and just listen to these songs a little more

233
00:11:19,719 --> 00:11:21,600
Speaker 2: in depth since we get clips of them in the show,

234
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 2: but we don't really get the full start to finish song.

235
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean anywhere you stream music, they're out there Spotify,

236
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,080
Speaker 1: Apple Music or whatever.

237
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,959
Speaker 2: You know, quick plug And the band is called Starry Eyes.

238
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:33,879
Speaker 1: Starry Eyes we have two albums out.

239
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:38,839
Speaker 2: Great. You talked about initially gathering these stories and interviewing

240
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 2: your dad with the intention of this being a family

241
00:11:41,719 --> 00:11:45,319
Speaker 2: archive not something public. Yeah, can you talk a little

242
00:11:45,319 --> 00:11:49,119
Speaker 2: bit about that process of when you actually first started

243
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,520
Speaker 2: interviewing him and what that looked like, and then if

244
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,680
Speaker 2: that shifted as you decided this was going to become

245
00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 2: something for the public rather than just for your own

246
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,599
Speaker 2: family's kind of internal.

247
00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:06,000
Speaker 1: Processing when I first learned about all this, besides the heroin,

248
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,199
Speaker 1: the Heroin was an ongoing thing for years and years

249
00:12:09,199 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 1: and years. In twenty thirteen, he called me. And I

250
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,199
Speaker 1: had been a strange with him from him for about

251
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 1: five years, and so when he called me, it was

252
00:12:17,599 --> 00:12:19,599
Speaker 1: odd because I don't talk to him at this point,

253
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,720
Speaker 1: and when I do talk to him, it's like fuck

254
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,520
Speaker 1: you, you know, it's like really not it's not healthy at all.

255
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 1: So when he called me, he was just like he

256
00:12:27,719 --> 00:12:31,199
Speaker 1: was a wreck, and he was like vulnerable and emotional,

257
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,559
Speaker 1: and I was shocked. It's like what is this? And

258
00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,640
Speaker 1: it was this basically my last day, like I'm done,

259
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 1: I'm dying and I'm done and I need help and

260
00:12:40,959 --> 00:12:43,000
Speaker 1: you're the only one that could help me because everyone

261
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,400
Speaker 1: had cut him out at this point. So he comes

262
00:12:46,439 --> 00:12:48,200
Speaker 1: to his firstborn son to save the day. And so

263
00:12:48,319 --> 00:12:52,000
Speaker 1: I heard him out and I felt I felt sympathy

264
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 1: for him. I mean, he was a great dad growing

265
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,239
Speaker 1: up until he wasn't until the drugs turned him into

266
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,000
Speaker 1: a monster. And by this time, I was healthy in

267
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,319
Speaker 1: my career. I was healthy, I had a wife and

268
00:13:04,599 --> 00:13:06,639
Speaker 1: we were already talking about raising a kid. I was

269
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,679
Speaker 1: I was healthy. I'm healthy, and I'm in a good place,

270
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,120
Speaker 1: and I felt like I could do it. So I

271
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 1: immediately kind of like figured out rehabs, like whatever that means.

272
00:13:14,959 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 1: I started calling around. I got him a spot at

273
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 1: this detox facility in southern California, and then put him

274
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 1: on a flight from Chicago to LA the next morning.

275
00:13:23,719 --> 00:13:26,200
Speaker 1: And I picked him up at the airport and he

276
00:13:26,319 --> 00:13:29,520
Speaker 1: just was this skeleton of a person. It was really awful.

277
00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 1: I mean, like he didn't have a belt on. His

278
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,839
Speaker 1: pants were just like falling down. He was constantly lifting

279
00:13:32,839 --> 00:13:37,079
Speaker 1: his pants up. Just really sad, really sad state. And

280
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, I drove him to the airport and it

281
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 1: was pretty much a silent drive, and so I dropped

282
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,199
Speaker 1: him off, and that's what you do, drop him off

283
00:13:45,199 --> 00:13:47,599
Speaker 1: and you leave. And then he started getting clean, as

284
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,520
Speaker 1: you do hopefully, and then I would visit him and

285
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,520
Speaker 1: then he would slowly start opening up all this stuff

286
00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,200
Speaker 1: to me, and it wasn't a lot. It was just like,

287
00:13:55,199 --> 00:13:57,280
Speaker 1: you don't really know who I am, and you know

288
00:13:57,439 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 1: I used to do bad things, and you know, it

289
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,839
Speaker 1: was just like a lot of little hints, you know,

290
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,040
Speaker 1: little bread crumbs kind of thing.

291
00:14:03,199 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 2: Wow.

292
00:14:03,719 --> 00:14:05,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's on drugs, Like, I don't

293
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 1: know if it's like some heroin hangover or you know,

294
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,199
Speaker 1: he's just like hallucinating. I don't I don't really take

295
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,520
Speaker 1: any of this stuff, you know, on face value. So

296
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,000
Speaker 1: when he does get sober and I know he's sober

297
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,720
Speaker 1: and we're having conversations and he's like kind of like

298
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,640
Speaker 1: the you know, the old Ken Is, I can kind

299
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 1: of see it a little bit. And then that's when

300
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 1: he's really laid it out for me, and it was

301
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 1: just like what are you talking about? Like what? So

302
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 1: I gave him an iPad and I said write this

303
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 1: shit down, like just in your time and your spare time.

304
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:36,759
Speaker 1: And he was staying with me for like a couple

305
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 1: of days too, and you go back and forth, and

306
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 1: I'm just like, whatever thought you have, just write it

307
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,800
Speaker 1: all out, because it was hard for him to get

308
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,240
Speaker 1: it out, like he would say it and he would

309
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: stop and be like, I don't want to talk about that,

310
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, he'd like shut it down again. So I'm like,

311
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 1: just write it down in your own time. And then

312
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 1: like one day, it was probably a year or two later,

313
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,200
Speaker 1: it was like forty pages, like you know, kind of

314
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 1: autobiography all over the play scatterbrain, you know. But I

315
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 1: read it and it was just like, it's the story.

316
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,440
Speaker 1: It's the story, it's Crook County, it's insane. So I

317
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,479
Speaker 1: spent a good amount of time kind of like organizing

318
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,560
Speaker 1: the thoughts, asking him other questions and telling him to

319
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,240
Speaker 1: send me a little voice memos every now and then

320
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,239
Speaker 1: if he has a thought. And I just started compiling

321
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 1: information and materials. And at the same time, I was

322
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,280
Speaker 1: really busy doing movie stuff, so I just like, there

323
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,360
Speaker 1: wasn't a podcast, there wasn't anything. It was just like

324
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,440
Speaker 1: working on my dad, get having him purge all these things.

325
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,560
Speaker 1: And then in twenty seventeen, that's when I heard up

326
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,479
Speaker 1: and vanished, like I said, and I was like, this

327
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 1: could be a podcast, you know. And that's when I

328
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 1: pulled out the recorder and he was ready and I

329
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,000
Speaker 1: was ready, and he was sober at this time, and

330
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,160
Speaker 1: he was working in a rehab facility, you know, helping

331
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,680
Speaker 1: people stay clean. It was kind of like his his

332
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,320
Speaker 1: penance for his life of crime and what he felt

333
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,479
Speaker 1: like he had to do. And we just started recording

334
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,360
Speaker 1: and over a couple of years we got all this

335
00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 1: material and then I would go and fly out and I,

336
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,440
Speaker 1: you know, got my mom in Chicago, got my brother,

337
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 1: got my dad's twin brother, Rich, I you know, found

338
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 1: his old paramedic firefighter partner, his high school girlfriend. You know,

339
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 1: just like all these things started pulling clips, started learning

340
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 1: about the mafia, like just all this research really dive

341
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 1: in and then you know, and then the rest is history.

342
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,759
Speaker 1: I put it all together and now here we are.

343
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, so the question was how do

344
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 1: you transition from family archives to that? And it was

345
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 1: critically I had to insert. I realized I had to

346
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,400
Speaker 1: insert myself into the story to tell the story, as

347
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,119
Speaker 1: opposed to just like having this be like archival footage

348
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 1: that I could share. You know, here's an hour interview

349
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 1: with your dad, the kind of thing or your grandpa

350
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,240
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Right, So that's that was the change.

351
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 1: That was the flip that I that I had to do.

352
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 1: What was that like therapeutic and very lonely because I

353
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 1: was just sitting in my room, like just thinking for

354
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 1: weeks and weeks and weeks, and just like then I'd

355
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 1: write a little something and then I'd tie two pieces

356
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,600
Speaker 1: of footage together with this little thought that I had, right,

357
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,400
Speaker 1: And it was just like this slow, like brick laying

358
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 1: process that took a long time. Do you know how

359
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:12,360
Speaker 1: do you connect all these dots?

360
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:12,920
Speaker 2: Right?

361
00:17:13,159 --> 00:17:16,400
Speaker 1: Because it's three it's three four decades of stuff plus

362
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,480
Speaker 1: my life, you know, and how it affected us and

363
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: now it affect everybody else. So it's a lot. But

364
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:22,919
Speaker 1: I learned a lot I could do. I can be

365
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,600
Speaker 1: a lot more efficient at that now. I think through

366
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: this process, I know how to do it.

367
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,480
Speaker 2: Has the process of doing this show, you know, recording

368
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,959
Speaker 2: these interviews, reaching out to your family and you know,

369
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,920
Speaker 2: extended community, has it shifted how your family operates?

370
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:45,120
Speaker 1: That's that's interesting. You know, they're a bunch of stubborn bastards,

371
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,879
Speaker 1: let me tell you, But I will say that this

372
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,359
Speaker 1: whole process has brought us a lot closer together. Yeah,

373
00:17:53,399 --> 00:17:56,399
Speaker 1: And I think you know, one of the morals of

374
00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 1: this whole thing is is secrets kill? And you can't

375
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 1: have a functioning family unit when everyone's holding on to

376
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,759
Speaker 1: shit and burying, burying realities, you know what I mean,

377
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,400
Speaker 1: because they're they're not fun, they're ugly. And so for us,

378
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,400
Speaker 1: I forced everybody to dig this shit up and say

379
00:18:15,399 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 1: it to me and say it to my face and

380
00:18:16,879 --> 00:18:19,399
Speaker 1: put it out there. And I have these conversations and

381
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 1: I think, just like it. It was cathartic for me,

382
00:18:22,879 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 1: it was really cathartic for everybody else too. So yeah,

383
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,200
Speaker 1: in a way, now that it's all out there, and

384
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,920
Speaker 1: especially now that it's out in the world and people

385
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 1: are hearing it and they're getting like my mom's getting

386
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: facebooked by people like holy, like why you know, it's

387
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: like there's nothing left to hide and now and they're

388
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,359
Speaker 1: almost like it's it's weird. It's like they feel lighter.

389
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 1: Like I just said, I feel like I can float.

390
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,200
Speaker 1: Like everyone feels a lot lighter now. It's like yeah,

391
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,679
Speaker 1: Like and and because they're not being persecuted like they

392
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,720
Speaker 1: thought they would be persecuted by sharing this stuff, people

393
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 1: are actually like sympathizing and empathizing and being like oh

394
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,560
Speaker 1: my god, you know, and like feeling the need to

395
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 1: to help or be friends again, or you know, reignite

396
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 1: an old friendship or whatever, like, oh my god, now

397
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,279
Speaker 1: I understand why you were the way you were or

398
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,119
Speaker 1: why you you know, why things happened and why we

399
00:19:11,159 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 1: fell up, our relationship fell apart. It's like all everything

400
00:19:14,159 --> 00:19:17,479
Speaker 1: has been kind of glued back together again in a

401
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 1: weird way. So yeah, it's very healthy.

402
00:19:20,159 --> 00:19:24,439
Speaker 2: That's so beautiful, that's really cool. Are you Are you

403
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,199
Speaker 2: still the only one in touch with your dad or

404
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 2: has anybody else made contact with him?

405
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,639
Speaker 1: Ninety nine point nine percent me. Every now and then

406
00:19:32,639 --> 00:19:35,359
Speaker 1: he'll text my mom and she's she just wants nothing

407
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: to do with them, so she'll just be like, whatever can,

408
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,399
Speaker 1: you know kind of thing that's my mom voice, whatever can.

409
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 1: And then my brother wanted nothing to do with him

410
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 1: for years. I mean yeah, really like high school for

411
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 1: him was a nightmare.

412
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he.

413
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: Hadn't talked to him for over ten years. So I'll

414
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,440
Speaker 1: share a little secret with you. We had this sit

415
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: down on Christmas two months ago, my mom, my brother,

416
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,959
Speaker 1: and myself and I played him all all the episodes.

417
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,479
Speaker 1: We sat down in this in this room and we

418
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 1: played eight episodes straight and we shit ton of wine.

419
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 1: We got really drunk, and we got really emotional and

420
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 1: we just hashed all the shit out and it was

421
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: again really healthy. But in the middle of it, it

422
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: was the craziest thing. In the middle of it, my

423
00:20:24,399 --> 00:20:27,160
Speaker 1: dad texts me and he says, and he says, I'm

424
00:20:27,159 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 1: gonna kill myself today.

425
00:20:29,879 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 2: Seriously.

426
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,880
Speaker 1: Yes, I have the text and it's at it's Christmas.

427
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 1: He's got no family, He's fucked. He's his head is

428
00:20:37,399 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 1: fucked still and you know, poor the guy's a mess.

429
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: He really is. As much as I try to help him,

430
00:20:42,639 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: but he's still a fucking mess. And I go, WHOA.

431
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: I pulled on my phone, like you guys can just

432
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,679
Speaker 1: texted me read this and put it out and they

433
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,479
Speaker 1: read it. And my brother goes, fuck that, give me

434
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 1: that fucking phone. I'm going to FaceTime it right now.

435
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,199
Speaker 1: It was the first time he ever said anything like

436
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: that in like over ten years, and so he facetimed

437
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: my dad and I have it all recorded, and he

438
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: just confronted him and just let him have it, like

439
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: ten twelve years of all this backlog of hate and

440
00:21:08,399 --> 00:21:10,959
Speaker 1: pain and things he wanted to say, and he just

441
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: fucking crushed him. And it was it was crazy. It

442
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: was super healthy for him, and at the end of

443
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 1: it they were kind of like both kind of laughing

444
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,120
Speaker 1: a little bit. It was wild. It was wild shit,

445
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: And so I'm gonna I'm gonna release some bonus episodes

446
00:21:24,159 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 1: that has a lot of this like kind of present

447
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: day stuff going on, this present day drama. Wow, welcome

448
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: to the Tequila Family. Never a dull moment.

449
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 2: That is kind of the opposite action I would expect

450
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 2: someone to take if they heard their dad was feeling suicidal.

451
00:21:41,399 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm gonna let him have it because in

452
00:21:43,159 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 2: case he goes, I have to get this off my

453
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 2: chest kind of thing.

454
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

455
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 2: No, it was kind of cool life. It sounds like right,

456
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 2: It like it.

457
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 1: Totally like knocked him off that. Yeah, the train of thought, yeah,

458
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: my thinking. That's literally what he said. He said, what

459
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 1: the fuck are you thinking right texting your son who's

460
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: like done nothing but help you, that you're gonna fucking

461
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 1: kill yourself, Like you're putting that weight on your on Kyle, Like,

462
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,719
Speaker 1: what is wrong with you? And just he just crushed him.

463
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: It was It was pretty incredible.

464
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: I Mean, the thing that comes through in the show

465
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,279
Speaker 2: from both you and your brother and your mom is

466
00:22:14,639 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 2: the fact that there's still so much love there, and

467
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 2: I think that's what that is. It's like, if you

468
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: are angry, you still care. If your brother didn't love

469
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 2: your dad still despite everything, he wouldn't have cared. He'd

470
00:22:30,159 --> 00:22:32,680
Speaker 2: have seen that text and not you know.

471
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: Bothered, say LEVI, But yeah, I know, you're a hundred

472
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: percent right.

473
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 2: It's I mean, it's really so vulnerable to put this

474
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 2: out into the world, but I think a lot of

475
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 2: people live with these huge secrets and these weights that

476
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: sit on their shoulders. Like you were saying, everyone feels

477
00:22:51,399 --> 00:22:53,719
Speaker 2: lighter even though it's been really painful and really messy,

478
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 2: and y'all's way of processing it, you know, is not

479
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 2: necessarily what like a textbook therapist would be like this

480
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: is the proper way to process these sorts of things,

481
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 2: you know, But it works for you, guys, and it's

482
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: created a lot of healing. And I think it's really

483
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: cool to share that so publicly because it has the

484
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,719
Speaker 2: potential to really connect with a lot of other people

485
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 2: that are in similarly messy situations that might feel like

486
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: their past forgiveness like your dad imagine, does you know?

487
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: And anyway, I just think it's very courageous to share

488
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: stuff that's this intense and personal really is so freeing.

489
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it really is, like I don't care what

490
00:23:33,159 --> 00:23:34,959
Speaker 1: people think to be at all. Like this is who

491
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: exactly who I am, you know, and this is my

492
00:23:37,399 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: fucked up family enjoy And.

493
00:23:40,159 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: It's amazing that it sounds like you've been met with

494
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 2: a lot of compassion rather than vitriol. Just wonderful.

495
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: Honestly, if you're mad at me for this, fuck you you're.

496
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: So who helped you with the show? Did you? You've

497
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 2: basically already covered that you just did this on your

498
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 2: own mostly, but you did work with Tenderfoot. Can you

499
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 2: talk a little bit about that process of building a

500
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 2: team and who you worked with and how you worked

501
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 2: with other people on this?

502
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a one man band. I mean all

503
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: production was me, all the editing, the music, sound effects,

504
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: the sound design, whatever, all that. Like me, me, me,

505
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: you know, it's like a college film, you know, shit

506
00:24:20,399 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: shot by me, edited by me, all that. But Tenderfoot

507
00:24:24,399 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: is they're so efficient and professional and they know this

508
00:24:29,879 --> 00:24:32,959
Speaker 1: space so well. Donald is the one I work with

509
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: day to day on this and and maps for the score.

510
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: But Donald's like it's got to be eight episodes and

511
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: two bonus up. Like he gives me the format, right,

512
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: you know there's gonna be two mid roles, so plan

513
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: for that. Okay, So I know I could I basically

514
00:24:46,159 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 1: thirty minute show, which was always my plan. I didn't

515
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: want some like droning hour long. It's just too much,

516
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, something's hours perfect, but like I just felt

517
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: like it would just be too much at an hour

518
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: on the show. So I was like always like thirty minutes.

519
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, I do literally three ten

520
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: minute chunks like and just break it up like it

521
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: very episodically like a TV show, and so like that,

522
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: the form is tenderfoot like that's their that's their guidance.

523
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: And then you know, I filled it all with tent

524
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: music from MAVs. Actually he sent me just his library

525
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: of stuff, like you know, to cut two, and then

526
00:25:18,879 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: he crafted an original score once everything was locked cool

527
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: and which is amazing because he's such a beast. He's

528
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,239
Speaker 1: so talented. He really just elevates everything he touches. So

529
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: thank you MAVs, Budd, You're great. And then as far

530
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 1: as trailers and stuff, you know, again that's them, Like

531
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: this wasn't a video thing. He's like, you need you

532
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: need a two minute, you need a sixty, you need thirty,

533
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: you need video stuff, you need personal stuff for you. You

534
00:25:42,879 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: gotta fucking learn how to do TikTok, you gotta dance.

535
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, all that stuff is tenderfoot. And you know,

536
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: a lot of conversations between Donald and I am like,

537
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: you know, like, what what do you think we should

538
00:25:53,879 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: do with this? Like should I hold this story back?

539
00:25:56,159 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: Is it like stuff like that? You know, he was

540
00:25:58,399 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: kind of like an advisor in that front. But but yeah,

541
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 1: I mean, for the most part, to me sitting in

542
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: a room by myself just staring at a computer screen

543
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: pressing buttons.

544
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: Wow, that's that is very intense.

545
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: Very lonely, extremely lonely.

546
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: Has your dad listened to the show?

547
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: He listened to the pilot, okay, and we played it

548
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: for him and we sat down with him, and it

549
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: was a lot for him. It's one thing for him

550
00:26:25,879 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: to finally unveil all of these things to me, but

551
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: another to listen to it back in this packaged movie thing,

552
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,999
Speaker 1: you know, like it. It kind of messed with him

553
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: a bit, and he didn't He was kind of speechless

554
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,999
Speaker 1: for you. He didn't know what to say, and then

555
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: it scared him. He's like, oh my god, like it's

556
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: it's like a thing, Like it's not just mice, it's

557
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: like a thing now. And then so we had to

558
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: talk about that, and that that leads into that, well,

559
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: are you comfortable even doing this? And so eventually it

560
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: was like once once that shock of like oh my god,

561
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: this is a thing now wore off, and he understands

562
00:27:05,879 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: and he knows I'm a film, he knows what I do.

563
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: He knows I he trusted me to tell it the

564
00:27:10,879 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: right way. And so once that all kind of settled

565
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,239
Speaker 1: itself out, he was totally at peace with it and

566
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: supportive of it and always asking me if I needed

567
00:27:21,639 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: any more stories or you know whatever, any more clarification

568
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: on anything, you know, as I'm in production, as I'm

569
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: editing all this stuff, and you know, even nowadays, like

570
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: every now and then, it'll hit me up with the

571
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: voice memo. It's just whacked out, crazy thing. And he's like,

572
00:27:35,399 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if you need that or not, but

573
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 1: there it is. So I've got just a folder just

574
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: full of insanity of voice memos from him. But but yeah,

575
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: so I mean he's and I told him like, Hey,

576
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: the show's coming out February eleventh, Dad, that's great son.

577
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: You know, congrats, you know, you're so proud of you.

578
00:27:53,399 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. You know. So there are moments where

579
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: we have like normal human conversations and then they like

580
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: spiral into like like I'm gonna fucking kill myself, you

581
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: know kind of stuff. It's very odd. It's a lot

582
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: of a lot of like almost like bipolar conversations. But yeah,

583
00:28:08,879 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: so I mean he's one hundred percent supportive of it.

584
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 2: To answer your question, I think it's really interesting. I

585
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 2: don't remember what episode it is that you mentioned this,

586
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 2: but he talks about how he never shared his story

587
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 2: in AA, you know, like he wasn't comfortable in that

588
00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 2: setting sharing these things, and now that same person is

589
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: confronting the fact that millions of people are hearing his story.

590
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: It's just one thing to tell it to a group

591
00:28:36,159 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: and the other just to like not even like just

592
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: pretend it's not even happening. And then it's on the radio,

593
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, and you're not a part of the experience.

594
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,999
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose that's what it is. It's it's just interesting.

595
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: It sort of fits with the picture you paint of

596
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: your dad of this like life of extremes.

597
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: You know very much.

598
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: So so you mentioned in episode three that you talk

599
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: to a criminal defense attorney and he encourages you not

600
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: to release the story. Is is your dad concerned about that?

601
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: Are you concerned about it at all? Your dad's rebuttal

602
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: was that he thinks that everybody that he talks about

603
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: is dead, but he's not, and he you know, goes

604
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: on mic and admits to committing a number of murders basically,

605
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: So can you just talk a little bit more about

606
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: how he's reconciled about how you've reconciled that. If there's

607
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: any kind of concern or fear showing up now that

608
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: you've released this.

609
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: No of anything, there's less fear.

610
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: Interesting, okayly enough.

611
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: You know, because your brain goes when when it's all

612
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: conceptual and you know, you think of all the worst

613
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: things that can happen, and of course it's like, yes,

614
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: you think that everyone's dead because you were the kid,

615
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: but like it, it's different when it's conceptual than versus reality.

616
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not just the mafia that that

617
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: could be, you know, coming for him, but it's also

618
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: law enforcement or FBI. You know, there's no statute of

619
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: limitations on murder. So yes, all these things are going

620
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: through my head, which is why I talk to this attorney.

621
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: And of course I'm asking my dad all this stuff.

622
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: And I think, really, what it boils down to is

623
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: it's two things. One, we decided not to name names

624
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: in the show. We decided not to dig up bodies

625
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: in the show. We do a lot of we take

626
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: a lot of creative license in telling the story without

627
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: revealing incriminating details. And I think I do a pretty

628
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: good job balancing that. And two, he is just at

629
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: a very interesting point in his life where he's right

630
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: at the end of it. He's not healthy and he

631
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: has nothing left to lose, and just getting this burden

632
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: off of his chest is the most important thing and

633
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: putting it out there in the world. Also, it's monetarily

634
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: like he made a little cash on this deal. Let's

635
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: just be honest. You know, he doesn't have any money.

636
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: He's broke, he's living on social Security. He's not he's

637
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: basically he's borderline and poverty. He was living under a

638
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: bridge for six months two years ago. Like he was

639
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 1: literally homeless, I mean usual wreck and so like I,

640
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm able to pay for rent for him now,

641
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: and I bought him a car, and he's stable, like

642
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: his situation is stable, and so there's just like all

643
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,279
Speaker 1: those things he's and it's like, if Karma's gonna come

644
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: get me, then like Kara, come get me. That's that's

645
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: where he stands. I don't feel like I'm in any

646
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: danger at whatsoever, because again, I'm not dropping names and

647
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm not digging up bodies. My roleness is to learn

648
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: about my father. You know, I'm not here to point

649
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: fingers or blame anybody. So I don't feel anything. And

650
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: now that it's out, I've gotten a few dms on Instagram,

651
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: like when the trailer came out from Chicago. Names that

652
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: I know, Oh wow, And that was a heartbeat moment

653
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: when I when I saw that name pop up in

654
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: my messages, and it's kind of funny. It was a

655
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,239
Speaker 1: very simple message. It was like this looks cool, and

656
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, is that the most ominous chill threat I've

657
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: ever heard in my life or what like? Or does

658
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: he actually like it? So I don't know. So I

659
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: wrote back and I'm like and I say last name

660
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: as in last name, and he was, yeah, that's my grandfather.

661
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,479
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh god, here we go. Whoa. And

662
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: then I write I'm like, don't worry, it's not something

663
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: like snitch Fest. So it's really just like a father

664
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,479
Speaker 1: son's story. Blah blah blah. You know, I hope you

665
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: like it. Nothing for like a day and I'm like,

666
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: oh god, it's already happening. I'm done. My worst fears

667
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: are coming true. And then and then the next day

668
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,479
Speaker 1: he hits me up and he's like, actually, this is

669
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: I have a book that I want to write and

670
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: I have a screenplay and like this is so cool,

671
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: Like you're doing it how I would do it. And

672
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, everyone just wants to fucking tell

673
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,479
Speaker 1: their story. Like no one cares anymore, as long as

674
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: you're not saying that guy did it. You know, You're like,

675
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: people just want to tell their story. So I get

676
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: I'd feel I feel better about everything. So yeah, it's

677
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: been a really weird been a really weird journey so far,

678
00:32:58,520 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: say the least.

679
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and to embark on that journey too. During

680
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 2: the pandemic is particularly intense because everything is closed down

681
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: and are closed down and you're digging into these really

682
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: dark things. You know, it's just it's very drinking as

683
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: drinking everybody that was the thing to do in twenty

684
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: twenty and twenty three one. But it is so cool

685
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: to hear about this trajectory of It really is a

686
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 2: story of like from the darkness to the light. You know,

687
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: it sounds so cheesy to say that, but I just

688
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 2: keep hearing you over and over again talk about how

689
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: beautiful this has been to like open that up. And

690
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 2: I love it and I hope that it encourages other

691
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: people to do that.

692
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.

693
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: This is a great segue into my next question, which

694
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: is what do you hope people gain from listening to

695
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: this show and to your family story.

696
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's really simple. Like I said earlier,

697
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: secrets kill people. And so there's also the themes of

698
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: addiction and getting help, and yeah, alcoholics nomenous or anonymous,

699
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: you know, Narco anonymous, cocaine anonymous. You know, there's all

700
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: the anonymous is, and there's so much value in seeking help,

701
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: and it's really hard to that you need help. It's

702
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: so it's like almost one of the hardest things, and

703
00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: especially like in Italian families, you just don't you just

704
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: eat it. It's just sorry, you don't. You don't tell

705
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: anybody about it. He's fucking choke on it. So yeah,

706
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: I think that it's just really important, you know. And

707
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: my dad never would have gotten help, like I had

708
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: a He had a call me on his fucking he

709
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: had a he was gonna kill himself. He had he

710
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: had a gun in his hand, and so he had

711
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: to get to that point two to seek help. But

712
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: E didn't. He didn't seek help. He saw my help,

713
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: you know, not a therapist. And so I had to

714
00:34:38,759 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: basically put him into a situation where there was therapy.

715
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: And even then he was he didn't want to tell

716
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: anybody anything. But just being in an environment where people

717
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: are seeking help and and and dealing with their issues

718
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: kind of publicly, it's really it's you know, it can

719
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 1: be the best thing you ever do. You know, I've

720
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: never met someone that's going to AA and said it

721
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: was terrible, terrible idea. You know. Yeah, a lot of

722
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: people relapse, but it's not AA's fault. That's that's you, Like,

723
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: that's you not following the program, and that's you give

724
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: him back into the to the dem insert the depression

725
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and you know, it's it's hard,

726
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 1: it's a battle, it's a constant bat it's a lifelong battle,

727
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: and it takes a lot of strength, but you have

728
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: to take that first step. And so I hope there's

729
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of that in there, a little bit

730
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: of hope for people, maybe a little inspiration. Everyone knows

731
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: somebody that's addicted to something.

732
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: Your dad's story of addiction was not something that I

733
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: expected to show up in the show, you know, because

734
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 2: just because you look at we listen to the trailer

735
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: and you're like, Okay, this is going to be, you know,

736
00:35:36,759 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: a mafia story, and then you put it right in

737
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: episode two. It's like you get the first impression of

738
00:35:43,759 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: your dad and then you immediately bring in his heroin addiction,

739
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 2: which happened a little later than the full story, Like

740
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 2: you kind of jump in time a little bit. Why

741
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 2: was it important for you to have that not chronologically ordered,

742
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 2: like bring that in early?

743
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know this because this never was a mafia show.

744
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,519
Speaker 2: Yeah. Fair, it's not a.

745
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: Third person whatever rehashing of things that happened, you know,

746
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: news clips and whatever. It's like a it's my story,

747
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: it's my relationship with my dad who fucked up big time,

748
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,479
Speaker 1: and I thought he was just a piece of shit

749
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: heroin addict, but no, he actually had this insane history

750
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: that I could never have even imagined. I played a

751
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: huge role in why he's a fucking heroin addict, right,

752
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: And so it's like two sides of the same coin.

753
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: You have to tell both sides of the story and

754
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: you have to lay him out. And I did it.

755
00:36:37,279 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: I kind of did it naked like MafA, Like it's

756
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: just full. Episode one is Mafia. Episode two is fucked

757
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 1: up family and Heroin, and then you smash them together

758
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: and then you start mixing it up and that's what

759
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: happens for the rest of the episodes. I'm just like

760
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: mixing up this bowl of you know, pain, pain, and anguish,

761
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: but the cookies are delicious.

762
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 2: Well it's I mean it's effective. Like as a listener

763
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: with absolutely no context going in. It gave me a

764
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: very different perspective on your dot from the get go,

765
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 2: you know, and instead of you know, at ending up

766
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: in this you can just dismiss him as a terrible person.

767
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: It's like you have this layer of Okay, I understand

768
00:37:17,759 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: how he ended up where he ended up in all

769
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 2: the layers of trum and all of the things.

770
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: That's a really interesting point that I think has been

771
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: really surprising is the amount of people who have said,

772
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: while he was actually a really good guy and he

773
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: really loved you guys. It's like they say that first,

774
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: like that's like, yes, you kill people, he's in the mafia,

775
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: But like their takeaway is that he, at the end

776
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,479
Speaker 1: of the day, like he was actually a good person

777
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: who was put in a really bad situation and then

778
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: just it got completely out of control. And I think

779
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: I think a lot of that's true. I mean, obviously

780
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: he made those decisions, you know, and he did those things,

781
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: and you can't ignore that that's awful. But people are

782
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: super complex, and no, there's no such thing as a

783
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 1: real monster. I mean, maybe there is, like super sociopathic people,

784
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: but he's not a sociopath, I don't think. I think

785
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: he is actually just a really complex person who found

786
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: a way to deal with his awful child. Like you know,

787
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,399
Speaker 1: how he was recruited as a seventeen year old kid

788
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: living on the streets, and how he basically just like

789
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: ended up in that life, and how he was able

790
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: to kind of get out of that life and start

791
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: a family and raise a family who loved him, and

792
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: be a great dad. You know, he's just like, he's

793
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: kind of this guy who just like fell into a

794
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: pit and dug himself out of it, but the pit's

795
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: still there, and all I do is look and oh

796
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: there's the pit. You know, he just had to find

797
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: the pit. And so yeah, it's like the complexity of

798
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: him as a person, I think is what makes this

799
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: show really really special and different, because it's not just

800
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: some like good guy bad guy mafia thing. You know,

801
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: we're all we're all a little fucked up, and we're

802
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: all we can all be really good too at the

803
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 1: same time. You know.

804
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the show does a really good job

805
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 2: of that. And I think that theme, I mean, that

806
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: theme is something that a lot of Tenderfoot shows explore

807
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 2: to is the humanity, you know, part of the picture.

808
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 2: And no one's story is straightforward. Like you said, there

809
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 2: are some people whose brains are very different and they

810
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: get pushed into these very like dark places. But a

811
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 2: lot of people who end up committing crimes are kind

812
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 2: of I think in situations more like your dad, where

813
00:39:25,279 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 2: it's less their choice than externally people perceive it.

814
00:39:30,759 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: Is Yeah, a lot of external pressures and a forcing

815
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: of the hand and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.

816
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, at the end of the day,

817
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: they could just say no and walk away or try

818
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 1: to but it's true. It's hard, It's really hard. True. Yeah.

819
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: So at the end of the season, you have this

820
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: kind of call to action for listeners to reach out

821
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: to you with questions and comments. And you've touched a

822
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 2: little bit on some of the things you've heard from people,

823
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 2: But is there anything that you've heard from folks so

824
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 2: far that's really impacted you that you want to share

825
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: with everybody? You know.

826
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 1: I got a comment yesterday and it was someone basically

827
00:40:04,759 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: what you just said, Like I wasn't expecting the addiction

828
00:40:06,759 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: stuff and I had battled that dick, and that really

829
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: struck a note with me. How he said that AA

830
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: saved his life because AA saved my life. So there's

831
00:40:16,759 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: that connection I think is going to land with a

832
00:40:18,759 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: lot of people. Someone this morning reached out to me

833
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: that I went to high school with that obviously had

834
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: no idea about any of this stuff. I said, I

835
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, but my dad died

836
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: of alcoholism at when I was fifteen, and he battled

837
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: it for a really long time, and and it was

838
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: a private thing that we kept within the family. And

839
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: hearing your dad story now and understanding is like, it

840
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: makes me want to tell my story, you know. So

841
00:40:42,759 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: it's a lot of I think. I think it really

842
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: it's like triggering people in a positive way to like to,

843
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: I guess, embrace these really hard things that have happened

844
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: to them in their past instead of hide it. I

845
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: think that's beautiful.

846
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: So what's next for Kirk County.

847
00:41:02,279 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: M Well, there's going to be a bunch of other

848
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: seasons of it. I'm trying. I have ideas for it.

849
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: I would love to There's so much going on with

850
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,439
Speaker 1: my dad currently, things that I have not even talked

851
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 1: to you about yet that are wild that I might

852
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: be able to squeeze into a season two, like a

853
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: continuation story. If I can. Great. If I can't, then

854
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to do other stories like under the Banner

855
00:41:28,759 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: of Crook County. You know, because in the same kind

856
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: of way I did this one. You know, it's going

857
00:41:33,279 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: to be thoughtful and and a lot of humanity mixed

858
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: with the bad. But then immediately we are pitching this

859
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: as a TV series, you know, like a prestige show,

860
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, go Sopranos meets Dexter meets Fargo meets Chicago

861
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: Fire did we didn't even talk about that, the whole

862
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 1: paramedic firefighter thing. You know, that's such a unique angle

863
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 1: to his story, you know, to be a first responder

864
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: who's a mafia asset. You know, he's a hero by

865
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: day and a hit man by night. Like that's that's

866
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: a show. Let's go HBO. What are we talking about it?

867
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: We'll see we're working on that.

868
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: We didn't talk about that, but that whole trajectory. I

869
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 2: think that's part of why, you know, folks are reaching

870
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: out and saying, your dad was a good a good guy,

871
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: clearly loved you because he's so obviously was trying to

872
00:42:22,759 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: do better. You know, the fact that he wanted to

873
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: be a firefighter. It's like such a complete balancing effect

874
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 2: for what he's doing. You know, it's like hit man

875
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 2: and then you save lives like that is the goal.

876
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: And so it's it's so clear that he, yeah, wanted

877
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 2: to do better. And I mean it's a great show.

878
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: So where can people get in touch with you to

879
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: stay updated about all this that's coming next. Maybe send

880
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: you a story potentially if they have something that could fit.

881
00:42:53,279 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's something that you're looking for,

882
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 2: But what do you suggest people do if they want

883
00:42:57,279 --> 00:42:58,359
Speaker 2: to stay in touch with you in the show?

884
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: Sure you'd send me a postcard the mail. Yeah, you know.

885
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: I've got all the social stuff, so I control kirk

886
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: County Podcast Instagram account, and the website has like a

887
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: you email feature and a contact and there's also a

888
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: voicemail thing that actually I want to do. I want

889
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: I want people to leave me voicemails and I want

890
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: to play them on a bonus episode. So go to

891
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: Kirkcounty Podcast dot com and leave me a voicemail, ask

892
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: me a question, tell me how you feel about the show, whatever.

893
00:43:25,279 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: You can call me a douchebag. That's fun. I'll talk

894
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: to everybody, so pretty pretty available. Awesome.

895
00:43:30,759 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Kyle. This was really fun. I

896
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 2: really appreciate your time and I'm excited to share. This

897
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: is everyone on tendorfoot plus