1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: Ah beaut force. If it doesn't work, you're just not 2 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio Special Operations, military 3 00:00:25,520 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community 4 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: Software Radio on time on Target. People really loved the 5 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: last interview with Mark Konya. I mean I put it 6 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: up later than usual, so I haven't gotten as much 7 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: feedback yet. But from what I've seen, people enjoyed. And 8 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: I think that maybe, like if I've read it, think 9 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: off the top of my head, like top twenty episode 10 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: right there, I mean definitely up there is. I think 11 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: that one's gonna be a hit with people. There's a 12 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: lot of information in that in that interview, and I've 13 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: been reading through, uh through Mark's book. Um, you know, 14 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: I I wrote actually that story he told about the 15 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: Joint Special Forces spet SNABS operation in Kosovo in two 16 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: thousand one. I wrote an article about that, and I 17 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: actually I got a picture from Mark, um interestingly that 18 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: a Swedish ranger took of the joint Russian American patrol. Um. 19 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: So I wrote that article and that will be up today. Um, 20 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: so that's pretty cool. Quickly. Yeah, No, he's a very 21 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: interesting guy, did a lot of interesting things in uniform, 22 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: and you know, like our guests today, I just love 23 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: finding these people that you know, in introducing them to 24 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: to the public. UM. You know, there's a lot of 25 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: talk out there about how little the general public knows 26 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: about the military and what our soldiers do. So to 27 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: kind of dig up some of those lesser known stories 28 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: and those people who aren't necessarily household names like you 29 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: know a Dave Petraeus or Stan McCrystal, um, but who 30 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: made these incredibly huge contributions um to the military. UM. 31 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: And more often than not we're talking specifically about the 32 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: special operations community. Is really just a pleasure to to 33 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: do that and to be a part of that. I 34 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: would agree with you, and I think we would do 35 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: our best to mix up between the guys that you 36 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: may have heard of and the guys that that you 37 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: may not have heard of. Um. You know, Sean Parnell, 38 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: his first book was a major hit. So that's a 39 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: guy that people are like, all right, I've seen him before. UM, 40 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: someone like Mark, someone like Mike coming on. These are 41 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: interviews you haven't heard before, even even with Sean Parnell. 42 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I know he had a popular book that 43 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: did well, Um, but he wasn't some swivel chair general, 44 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, he was an infantry officer. Uh No, I 45 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: don't even I just mean in terms of popularity, like 46 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: he's got a Twitter following, he's he does a lot 47 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: of media, like Mark that was his first interview, right, 48 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: this book. Yeah, turning those people up is one of 49 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: the uh. I think that's maybe the thing I'm the 50 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: most proud of, uh as far as what we do 51 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: with this podcast. So yeah, super happy for that. It's 52 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: surprising sometimes to me which episodes get the most plays 53 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: because I just think of, you know, a name like 54 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: Brad Thor. Everybody knows that name. He's you know, New 55 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: York Times best selling author. Everything he puts out and 56 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: you know it'll get dwarfed and listens to be honest 57 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: and compare irishon to a um Mike Vining you know. Yeah, well, 58 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: I mean I think that's what people come to this 59 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: podcast for is to hear those voices. Yeah. But but 60 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: it's good to have a mix because there's always new 61 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: people discovering the podcast, So I think that if we 62 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: have those familiar voices on, that's great as well. Absolutely, 63 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: and it's it's good and fun to mix it up 64 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: for the audience as well. For you know, I know 65 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: there are people who like go through and listen to 66 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: us every single week, so you know, we want to 67 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: throw different types of content and different people with different 68 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: experiences at them. You know, we've had Tom King, you know, 69 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: the former CIA officer turned comic book writer, writes Batman Comic. 70 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's fun to mix it up once in 71 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: a while. Yeah, if you go way back in the archives, 72 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: we've had like Diamond Dallas Page on. Yeah. Yeah, I 73 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: mean you've had some rock stars on, Mark Slaughter, Um, 74 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: Jason Raw. Yeah, we with Philiponti. We did with you 75 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: and that was cool. But Mark emailed the after that interview. 76 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: He was really happy with how it turned out, and 77 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: he was like, hey, I would come on any time 78 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: if you guys need me, And I hear that a 79 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: lot from guests sometimes for some guys, to be honest, 80 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 1: one interview is enough, maybe two interviews. He's a guy 81 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: I could actually see regularly having on. I really enjoyed 82 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: that interview, and he's done a lot of different things 83 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: that have really never been written before outside of his book. Yeah. Absolutely, 84 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: we can have him on as a guest again or 85 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: many Times. Why not? I agree? Uh So getting into 86 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: this first article here, this is not from the news 87 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: rep but it's just something that caught your attention. Uh, 88 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: Lethality task Force let lead Marine and Army grunts should 89 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: train like rangers from Quantico, Virginia. The director of the 90 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: Pentagon's Close Combat Lethality Task Force wants to make sure 91 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: infantry squads approach training like the seventy five ranger regimen. 92 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: Too often Marines and Army and infantrymen are tapped to 93 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: serve as borrowed military manpower details such as guard duty 94 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: to support base level operations. Task Force director Joe look 95 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: totally said Wednesday at the Modern Day Marine xbout here Wednesday. 96 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: So you were connecting this a little bit with um 97 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: our interview with Dr Leonard Wong. Yeah. Um, you know 98 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: this article written by Matthew Cox, who I crossed paths with, 99 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: met him years ago. Um, he wrote this article. It's 100 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: really good. Uh, people should go check it out. Um. 101 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: But what it is saying is that the US military's infantry, 102 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: both Marine infantry and Army infantry, they get treated by 103 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: the services as like unemployed labor. Like okay, if you're 104 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: not actively getting shot at by, you know, the taliban UM. 105 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: Then you are basically just manpower standing by to stand by, 106 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: and we can utilize you for post beautification um, you know, 107 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: run around picking up pine cones on post or handing 108 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: out towels in the gym or whatever stupid thing um 109 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: the base commander fields needs to be done that day. 110 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: And what this um, what this study is showing and 111 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: what they're talking about here is that to improve lethality 112 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,119 Speaker 1: and the competency of the infantry, we need to stop 113 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: treating them like this and we need to start training 114 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: our marine and Army conventional infantry the way the seventy 115 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: range of Regiment trains UM. And I was in third 116 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: range of battalion. We did not get tasked out for 117 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: any of those post um duties or you know, gate 118 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: guards or picking up pine cones or any of that nonsense. 119 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,679 Speaker 1: Our job was to prepare for combat. So when we 120 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: we I mean, I'm not saying we did combat training 121 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: every single day. There are days where like you need 122 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: to clean up the range and things like that. They're uh, 123 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, you have to go in, uh go to 124 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: the doctor's office and get your dental done and all 125 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: that kind of uh stuff. There are those mundane taskings 126 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: you have to accomplish, but it's either you know your 127 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: training or you're preparing to train. It's one or the other. 128 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: You're not doing things that have nothing to do with 129 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: your unit's mission essential task list. You know, for the 130 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: Range of Regiment UM, it's infantry combat, it's airfield seizures, 131 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: it's direct action UM. The Range of Regiment created the 132 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: Big Four to kind of narrow in on its focus 133 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: as far as like, when you wake up in the morning, 134 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: what do you need to be focused on doing? UM, 135 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: And they expanded that recently or not so recently, but 136 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: in the years since I left the regiment to be 137 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: the Big five. So the Big four was physical training, marksmanship, 138 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: battle drills, and medical training. And then they added to 139 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: it mobility or driving, which sounds a little mundane maybe 140 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: to civilian civilian listeners, but UM driving is important because 141 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: of the amount of time that we spent using our 142 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: humps and strikers and other vehicles. You know, your your 143 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: young soldiers need to learn how to drive under nods 144 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: and do it safely in your vehicle recovery drills and 145 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: reacting the I e. D Drills. That stuff is so 146 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: pertinent that UM, I think it was worthwhile to add that, 147 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: UM addition to the Big four. But anyway that these 148 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: five tasks kind of they give something for the squad 149 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: leader or the platoon sergeant to focus on and to 150 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: UM think about every day. What do we need to do, 151 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: what do we need to focus on? And these are 152 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: the things that play into your mission. UM. And I 153 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: think that what this article is talking about it is 154 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: dead on. I mean, when we were in the range 155 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: of regiment, it's like, you know, we'd go out to 156 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: the range and spend four days out at the range. 157 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: And you would go out there and you would train 158 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: in the day and then you would train at night, 159 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: and so you would be out at the range shooting. 160 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: You'd be doing maneuver ranges, you know, with your machine 161 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: gun elements, laying down basis of fire, your assault elements, 162 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: bounding forward. You're doing actually real combat focused training. Uh. 163 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: And unfortunately the infantry has, as this article points up, 164 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: and treated as you know, like they're just unemployed labor, 165 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: like they're they like, you know, the the colloquial term grunt, 166 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: that you're just some grunt, Like here's a shovel, dig 167 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: a hole. You know, um, and we need to stop 168 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: viewing our infantry like that. We need to start seeing 169 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: them as a professional service and a professionalized service. That 170 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: there is this training cycle that they're gonna do. UM. 171 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: So I wholeheartedly endorsed that notion that the Marine and 172 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: Army infantry should begin training more like the Ranger regiment. 173 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: It's not necessarily that they have to become the same 174 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: range the same thing as rangers, um, or that they'll 175 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: have exactly the same mission, but that training methodology to 176 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: get them where they need to be. I mean, our 177 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: infantry should be the most agile, maneuverable, deadly fighting force 178 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: in the world, and if we're not focused on those things, 179 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: then we're wrong. Um. Which kind of brings us to 180 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: another subject. General General Well, Secretary Madness. Now, he made 181 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: these comments the other day during a speech. I believe 182 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: he has asked a question, um by I believe it 183 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: was a cadet about women in the infantry, and Maddie said, well, look, 184 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: you know the jury is still out. Well we're not 185 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: sure yet. UM. We've been doing these things. We're we're 186 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: collecting data, we're seeing how it's going, but we don't 187 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: really have an answer yet. On whether or not this 188 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: is going to be a permanent thing or something that 189 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: we're going to do. UM and the women's groups and 190 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: the social justice people went nuts about it because they're like, Oh, Maddess, 191 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: is you know downplaying women can be in the infantry? 192 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: You want me to play the equip itself? Hold on, 193 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: that's the follow one, so Maddess replied, and I mean 194 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: he basically doubled down and yeah, go ahead. So this 195 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 1: is when the press asked him about his previous comments. 196 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: This is what he had to say here on the 197 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: women in infantry. UM, just to talk about the issue again, 198 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on women serving in infantry positions? 199 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: And also there right now, I'm referred just to say 200 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: that I handle problems when they're brought to me. I 201 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: have had not had problems brought to me. Uh. If 202 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: you look at other nations that have opened infantry positions 203 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: to women, you see a very small, very small number. 204 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: We can't even draw statistical performance indicators from other nations 205 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: right now, so I don't talk about things that I 206 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: don't have data on. Again, I handle problems. A problem 207 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: has not been brought to my attention, So there's nothing 208 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: more I can say on it. I couldn't have answered 209 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: that any better. Yeah, I mean he's just being the 210 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: adult in the room here and saying, look, I'm not 211 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: gonna make a feel good comment for soundbites or or 212 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: for for little hearts on Twitter. You know, that's not 213 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: that's not the game he's playing too. He's trying to 214 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: run the Department of Defense and run it effectively, and 215 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: so he's just waiting to see how things pan out 216 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: and wait for some more data to come in before 217 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: making a larger decisi Asian that impacts the entire force. 218 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: And you know, some of these people who want to criticize, uh, 219 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: there there's such so they're they're ideological zealots. There's there's 220 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: no satisfying them. So I think Maddis was right to 221 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: defend his remarks in that fashion. Yeah, I agree, And 222 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: I think he answered it as professionally as he could 223 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: and did a great job. And I do agree with him. 224 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: There is no data on women, and there's well there's 225 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: very little. Um and as far as you know female 226 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: he can't say infantry men. Let's say infantry women. There 227 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: aren't that many around the around the world. Um. People 228 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: like to site Israel UM. But it's not even true 229 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: in Israel. I mean, there's one border or patrol unit 230 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: that has UM women in it, but they don't really 231 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: have female infantry women in Israel. UM. There's not many 232 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: countries where they do this. UM. There are women throughout 233 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: our military and other millitarius that do all kinds of 234 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: amazing things, but finding infantry women out there in the 235 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: world is kind of difficult to do. Yeah. Dan Gordon 236 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: did a good job on the podcast speaking about you know, 237 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: there's certain positions women are just better in. And the 238 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: one that he was talking about I remember, not the 239 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: episode you were on, but was video surveillance. He was saying, like, 240 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: men get easily distracted. They're thinking about sex, they're thinking 241 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: about other things. He's like, women could just stare at 242 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: the video screen and notice if something seems suspicious, and 243 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: they're just better at that job than men. Well, I 244 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: saw an interview with Billy wat where he was like, 245 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, we need to have women involved in special 246 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: forces because they're so they're good at communicate, they're good communicators, 247 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: they're good at foreign languages. There are all these things 248 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: and that's what when Mark Boyatt, he was a third 249 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: Special Forces group commander came on, he said the same thing. 250 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: It's like, look, we have got to find a way 251 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: to get women in special forces. And maybe they're not 252 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: so called green Berets. Maybe they're not um necessarily go 253 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: through the same qualification course. Maybe they're not they don't 254 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: have the exact same job that the men do, but 255 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: that they've gone through some sort of training and some 256 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: sort of selection course and they have their own role 257 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: in their own mission to fulfill on the team. UM. 258 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: And I think that's probably um a spot on comment 259 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: that women are going to do all of the same 260 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: things that men do, but that they are going to 261 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: have a equal and important role to play, uh in 262 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: special operations and perhaps in other fields as well. I mean, 263 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: we'll we'll see how like medi says, we'll see how 264 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: it pans out, what the data indicates. UM. But I 265 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: think that there are so many things that women can 266 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: do that you know, men can't do. I mean, I 267 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: just think about you know, there's this image out there 268 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: that people have of what a green Beret is. UM. 269 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: They think of a guy who's like, you know, looks 270 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: like Chuck Norris or something like that. Um. But you know, 271 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: a green Beret who is Uh. Some of them are 272 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: five feet tall, have a Hispanic background, Mexican American. Um, 273 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: and you think about the places that guy can go 274 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: and the things he can do that I could never 275 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: do because I'm six ft tall, I'm a white guy. Um. 276 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: Whatever foreign language capability I have is basically a joke, 277 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: you know. Now, think about a Hispanic American who speaks Spanish. Um, 278 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: and because of his ethnic background, he can blend in 279 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: in a couple of dozen different cultures. He can do 280 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: things I could never do. Uh. In some cases, is 281 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: the same with women, that they can go places and 282 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: they can do things that I could never do. And um, 283 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: So just as we should be realistic about what women 284 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: can accomplish in the infantry, UM, we also have to 285 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: be a realistic about what you know, the average white male, 286 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: which is myself, can accomplish. I can't do everything, of course, Yeah, 287 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: well said man. Well, um, I'm looking forward to getting 288 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: right over to Mike Ampy. And an interesting and interesting 289 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: thing is in two nine episodes of this show, we've 290 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: had maybe five or so Air Force guys. Seriously, I 291 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: think so when I think about it, that's a shame. Yeah, 292 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: we've had Um, I mean, of course, we've had b 293 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: k On, We've had David ridan On, I've had Dan Hampton, 294 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: this former Air Force I can't even think of anyone else. Well, Mike, UM, 295 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: I don't. He might take offense to me saying this, 296 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 1: but he is kind of in some ways one of 297 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: the granddaddy's of Air Force Special operations. He was on 298 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: the ground floor for a lot of it. Which is 299 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: cool though, because we do get those emails of like, 300 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: all right, enough of you know, green berets, arm Rangers, 301 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: Navy seals. How why no Air Force guys? So this 302 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: will fill that void for something absolutely. Joining us for 303 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: the first time on SOFTAREP Radio US Air Force Chief 304 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: Master Sergeant Mike Lampy. Mike has so many awards and accolades. 305 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: Looking at his bio which we can get into. UH 306 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: started an Army and then crossed over to the Air Force, 307 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: retired in UM and went on to accept a position 308 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: on the board of directors for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation, 309 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: which you're currently still a part of. UH. Really decorated 310 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: thirty year career and excited to get into all of 311 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: it with you. Yeah, it's my pleasure to be on 312 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: the show. Today and look forward to sharing my experiences 313 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: and special ops with everyone that's uh part of the audience. Yeah, 314 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: thank you, Mike. I was reading through you know a 315 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: little bit about you um uh today and I mean 316 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: you were really on the ground floor in so many 317 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: ways for Air Force special operations. But I kind of 318 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: wanted to start at the beginning of your personal story 319 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: about your upbringing and how you um got drafted for 320 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: Vietnam um, but then enlisted in the Air Force. I 321 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: thought all of that was very interesting if you could 322 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: speak to that a little bit. Yeah, Well, I grew 323 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: up in Washington State, on Washingtonian. I grew up on 324 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: the west side of the state, uh over in a 325 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: small town, Silverdale, Uh, not far from Bremerton and probably 326 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: about but uh forty five minute drive over to Fort 327 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: Lewis McCord Air Force Base area. And uh my dad 328 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: was an independent logger and mom was nurses eight. So 329 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: I spent most of my young years working with my father, 330 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: uh in the in the woods learning the logging trade. Um. 331 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: And of course as I entered into junior high in 332 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: high school, uh kind of went away from that focused 333 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: on athletics, played football, uh and baseball and did a 334 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: little wrestling. But as my as I graduated from high 335 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: school in nineteen, when I returned from our our senior party, 336 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: my mom was sitting at the kitchen table and uh 337 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: lo and behold she was a bit emotional and she 338 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: had as my draft needs. So you know, myself and 339 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: you know some of my other classmates. Uh. In fact, 340 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: it received draft news is during that time freak and 341 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: uh you know, I didn't really thank much of it, 342 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: you know, I said, okay, you know, and uh, you know, 343 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: I don't think I had to report to the induction 344 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 1: center until I think it was I think the at 345 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: the end of summer, September or something like that. You know, uh, 346 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: you know, the memories a little foggy, but you know 347 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: when I went over to the induction center over in Seattle, 348 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: uh you know, to me, it was they were doing it. 349 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: I think it's some uh big uh, I won't call warehouse, 350 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: gymnasium whatever, And they were all the services were in there, 351 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: so people were coming in and obviously I had a 352 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: draft notice. And obviously at that time the army line 353 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: was the longest. What what year was this, Mike? Again, 354 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: what year was this? So I mean the Vietnam War 355 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: was hot and heavy at this time. Yeah, I was, 356 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't pay much attention to the news, 357 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: of course, you know, I was busy with athletics and 358 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: busy working with my dad and and hey, we only 359 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: had three TV channels back then, and TV wasn't one 360 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: of my pastimes. And uh so I really didn't think 361 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: much of the Vietnam War. Obviously, my parents were much 362 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: more attuned to what was going on in the world 363 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: over there, and so I just kind of took the 364 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 1: draft notice and stride and but you I want to 365 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,239 Speaker 1: got the induction center, you know, you know, there was 366 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: a ton of folks there. Uh and uh, I was 367 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: just figuring out how do I get through this process 368 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: as quickly as possible, And so I just kind of 369 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: noticed over in the far corner of the Air Force, 370 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, which I found out was the Air Force 371 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: had the shortest kind of activity. And I just kind 372 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: of walked up there and said, how do I get 373 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: in this line? And the the young sergeant looked at 374 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: me and said, well, uh, you know, said what do 375 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: you got? So I got a draft and he said, well, 376 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: says that you know, if you like, there's an Air 377 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: Force recruiting office. You know, so many blocks down here, 378 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: and you can go see this, uh I think it 379 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: was a tech sergeant, uh, the lester or something like that, 380 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: and go talk to him. So, you know, I looked 381 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: at the line that I was supposed to be in, 382 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: and I said, should excuse my English, It'll take forever 383 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: to get through that. And so I wandered down the 384 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: streets of Seattle there and found the recruiting office and 385 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 1: went in and talked to the recruiter and showed him 386 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: my draft notice and and so I started the process 387 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: of to get in the Air Force too. Yeah, not 388 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: to avoid the Army, but just said, hey, this might 389 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: be a different option. And I always thought about when 390 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: I was a young lad, uh always flying and uh 391 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: so unbeknownst to me, hey you had to have a 392 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: college degree and that. Yeah, okay, well that must have 393 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: made your mom happy though, that you joined the Air 394 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: Force instead of the Army. Yeah. And the interesting thing 395 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: as you look at my career is, even though I 396 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: went in the Air Force, I selected that route. What 397 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: was interesting after I went through all the ropes, uh, 398 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: you know, the testing and all that stuff, then the 399 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: Air Force recruiter told me, says, well, okay, we're going 400 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: to put you in the delayed enlistment plan, you know, 401 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: and I'm sitting there saying, you know, delayed and listening. Okay, 402 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, explain what's that. I said, Well, you don't 403 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: have to report for basic training for like nine twenty days. 404 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: And I said, oh, you mean I get to stay 405 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: home for Christmas. Says yeah, so that's hey, I'll make 406 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: my mom happy. So you know, you know, I entered 407 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: the Air Force and the spring of nine, and uh 408 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: then I kind of found out how the system works. 409 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: But then I got to up or based on my 410 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: test scores, I got chosen through the administrative career field. 411 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: And after I you know, it's almost like half my 412 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: basic training class. One went to air Police at the time, 413 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: they were called versus security police, and the other went 414 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: you know, administrative personnel personnel and there were some cats 415 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: and dogs that went through you know, other high tech things. 416 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: But half my half my basic trank class was on 417 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: the same bus driving to Biloxi, Mississippi to go to 418 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: administrative you know, a specialist school. And so you know, 419 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: when I got in there and this uh just I 420 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: think was September. Have to be September of sixty Iefred 421 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: call and uh, of course, you know, I'm still still 422 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: you know, naive, I guess and uh and so him 423 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: in the barracks and uh, and I get assigned hurricane Watch. 424 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: I said, hurricane watch? What the hell is that? And ironically, 425 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: you know, later on in my tour duty there or 426 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: by a tech school day and I think it was 427 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: an October six nine, we got it with Camille and 428 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: then we were out of tech school I think for jeez, 429 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: at least six weeks, six eight weeks, because we were 430 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: you know, put on assignment two number one to help 431 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: obviously helped the civilian community, but the same with you know, 432 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: dealing with all the destruction on the base. So how's 433 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: that great? Yeah, no, we're tracking. Um, so your first 434 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: assignment was administrative. Do you want to talk a little 435 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: bit about how you came to become a member of 436 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: the special operations community. I mean, you made this this 437 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: pretty big career jump early on as a young man. Yeah, 438 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, you know obviously when when I completed you know, 439 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: administrative specialist tech school. You know, my first assignment was 440 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: the Clark Air Base the Pilipines, And so you know, 441 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: I got signed in there and I got assigned to 442 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: what's called the CPPO, which is a consolidated based personnel 443 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: office they called at the time, and I was part 444 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: of the what I call an administrative team, ain't There 445 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: was like eight or tenemus in a pool, and we 446 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: did all kinds of administrative stuff. Of course, we didn't 447 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: have computers and copy machines or anything like that, so 448 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: everything was you know what I called. I end up 449 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: calling myself a Remington raider, had a Remington typewriter and 450 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: typewriter to and so of you. Yeah, that was just 451 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: knocking out all your ministry work and using carbon copies 452 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: and all that stuff. But I had one of the 453 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: responsibilities for that to go to the base commander's office 454 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: every day park and drop off distribution and pick up distribution. 455 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, the base start major. He called 456 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: himself to start Major then uh, you know kind of 457 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, keep an eye on me. And he had 458 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: another n CEO that was getting ready to PCs and 459 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: so he needed a replacement. So what happened was is 460 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: one day I get called in the office by the 461 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: ends too. I see the ministrative selid work and Master's 462 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: started McCall if I recalled correctly, former army guy. Uh. 463 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: He had spent his first few years in the army. 464 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: I think he was in the Korean War and may 465 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: have spent some time in the Army in World War Two, 466 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: and I just can't confirm that. And so he talked 467 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: to me and then said, hey, yet, we're sending you 468 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: to the base commander's office for the request to the 469 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: base art maker, you know Chief mass Start and Sabato 470 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: and yeah, the same. He was related to Coachack very S, 471 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: the actor. Yeah, almost to spitting the image of the guy, 472 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: except he's still at air and some come to find 473 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: out he was also a former army h nanco And 474 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: he as far as I could tell, and he never 475 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: really talked about but he served in World War Two. 476 00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: He was airborne. If I recalled from his uh bad DGEs, 477 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: I think he had at least one combat jump. He 478 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: had to comment infantry badge. I think he had like 479 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: three or four purple hearts and you know, bronze star 480 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: with ballard, you know, you know, based on my memory, 481 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: and he was hard as woodpecker lips and uh boy, 482 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: when he spoke, you know, people just jumped and I 483 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: used to have to drive him around to visit the units. 484 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: And boy, yeah you talked about Clail, you know, Scurry, 485 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: and that guy showed up. The truths are Scurry and 486 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: in the in the senior and seos of the chief 487 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: that you know really just didn't like seeing him show 488 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: up on their doorstep. And it was, you know, an 489 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: interesting leadership style. I mean he was fair, but he 490 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: was hard, he was spur, he didn't take no bs 491 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: and and you know, just got to task. And and 492 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,479 Speaker 1: really what I weren't watching him and how he treated me, 493 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: how much he cared about the troops and make sure 494 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: the troops were being taken care of and they were 495 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: getting what they needed to do to get the job 496 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: to And that was the same how he treated me. 497 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: And so I was on a project I had to 498 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: help out my counterparts and c PPO to review an 499 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: update regulations and manuals. And so as I was going 500 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: through this one regulation, I'm sitting here saying that do 501 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: I really want to be an advent guy? You know, 502 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: because I spent the ball from my youth, you know, 503 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: outside in the woods playing sports. Yeah, I mean you 504 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: were doing that, that's like hard man's work. You know 505 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: in the lumber industry. Yeah, and uh, you know, I 506 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: mean a administrators supposially a great job, you don't get 507 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: me wrong, and an important job, but I I just 508 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: didn't envision myself sitting at a desk, you know, day 509 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: in and day out, even though that's what I was 510 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: doing currently. So as I'm updating this one regulation, which 511 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: was like a special duty, uh portion of the regulation, 512 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: I came across, you know, all these different you know, 513 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: special duties that you could cross train into, and one 514 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: was like pair of rescue. And then they had and 515 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: I came across singing Air commander and I and I 516 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: kind of looked at Air Commander, dud, they're done. And 517 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: so I went back and talked to the stard Major 518 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: and and uh said, Kenny says, he says, that's a 519 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: that's a different line of work, you know, airman. And 520 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: I said, just yes, Sard Major and uh, he says 521 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: it's hard and dangerous. He says, you're sure you want to, 522 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, volunteer. And I said, just, sir, I think 523 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: I want to volunteer. He said, well, you know, you know, 524 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: get at it. You know, I'll help you out the 525 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: best I can. Now, another interesting pieces. You know, the 526 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: vice commander that I also worked for besides the start major, 527 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: he was a former Army Air Corps title. I think 528 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: he was at B twenty four pile, Colonel Bobby, and 529 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: he had been shot down I hank a couple of 530 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: times over in Europe. I think if I recall correctly, 531 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: it had been a PO debut in a German Uh, 532 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, PO debut camp and actually escaped. Uh. And 533 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: here's another guy. It's a no nonsense you know. Yeah, individuals. 534 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: So you know, if you kind of take a look 535 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: at my initial first year or so in the Air Force, 536 00:33:53,320 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: my my mentors, my leaders, you know, all former Army. Yeah, 537 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: and uh so both those individuals, Colonel Bobbitt and started 538 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 1: maybe as of law, you know, help me cross brain, Uh, 539 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: get all the paperwork and eventually you know it has 540 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: to go to cat headquarters at the time, and uh 541 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: I got accepted, you know, for you know, an assignment 542 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,399 Speaker 1: to her overfield for special operations with in your mind, Mike, 543 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: as a young man, I mean, what did you think 544 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: being an air commando was? What what was going on 545 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: inside your brain at that moment? Well, you know, I 546 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: wasn't really sure of course, you know, like all probably 547 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: young men at that time. You know, I watched the 548 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: you know, fair amount of war movies with John Wayne 549 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: and you know, Richard Whitmark and all those guys, and 550 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: uh and so I as soon you're jumping out airplanes 551 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 1: that you're going to be doing uh something on Uh 552 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: I'll just say the leading edge and it would be 553 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: quite challenging, you know, physically and obviously mentally. So that's 554 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: kind of what I thought, you know. And again there 555 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: wasn't much information out there, and and uh, hey, I 556 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: just knew I didn't want to sit behind the desk 557 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: and jumping out a perfect good airplane seemed like a 558 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: different route. And uh, you know, being outside and uh 559 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: you know, having the physical demands that came with that 560 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: would appeared based on what I can see, Uh, I was. 561 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: I was ready for the challenge. Now. The ironic thing 562 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: is is when I PCs and H ended up signing 563 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: into Robert you know, the guy kicked me up at 564 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: the airport and my sponsor, you know, and I'm all 565 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: jazzed about Kake, you know, when you know I'm talking 566 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: to him, is we're driving to build with you know 567 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: about hey, when you know when when you think, I'll 568 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: if you're going to jump school or you know, when 569 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: you think called boom and you know, and we're at 570 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: I guess the stop signers something kind of looks at 571 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: and so what the hell are you guys smoking over 572 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: the fild case, you know, I said what he says, Hey, 573 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 1: you're being a sign to the thirty four Combat Support, uh, 574 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: you know group, and you're gonna be working for I 575 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: can't remember the control, you know. And as soon as 576 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: he saw you had worked for the base commander and 577 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 1: the boom, he wanted you. I said, I'm I says, hey, 578 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: I'm here to yeah, being air commander. Yeah, he says, 579 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: that's all kind of in name. You know, if you 580 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: go back there, the air commander was all encompassing, you know, 581 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: you know, you know, you know, just I guess like 582 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: special lots that you've got all these as the STAE moss. Hey, 583 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: you're not going to a different you know, career field. 584 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: You're you're part of the first special Operational Link, but 585 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: you're still had been specialists for seven oh twos. We're 586 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,919 Speaker 1: called back then. I said, holy crap, you know that's 587 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,320 Speaker 1: when I signed up for I thought I was getting 588 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: into and and so you know, I settled in and 589 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, being a good troop, and you know, I 590 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: went and talked to the comptroller and full of my story, 591 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,959 Speaker 1: and he kind of laughed and said, well, he says, 592 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: you're my advents, testlest for now. He says, but hey, 593 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: you can go over and talk to the chief pass 594 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: starting over to the CPPO and play out your case, 595 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: um and see what he could do to help. So 596 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 1: off I went, and you know, so I ended up 597 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: eventually getting to talk to the chief of c v 598 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: PO the personnel center there and kind of describe what 599 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: the process I went and what I thought I was 600 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: getting into, and he says, well, he says, uh that 601 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 1: the only hang close to that is what we call 602 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: Combat Control, that we have her first Special Operations Wing, 603 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: and he says, and he says, so, he says, I'll 604 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: tell you what I'll do. I says, He'll take you 605 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: over to the Combat Control team, introduce you to the 606 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 1: chief over there, and see see if he can help you. 607 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: And so he took me over to the combat the 608 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: first Special Operations Wing, combat Control, which was upstairs and 609 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: the east and hanger there are over and so at 610 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: that time I met. I think it was a senior 611 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,359 Speaker 1: mass or Beverly McCrae, and then eventually a Chief mass 612 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: Star Jim Howell, and uh and I mean, we're very gracious. 613 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: They showed me around, talked about you know, the career field. 614 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: You know that you know that they work forward areas, 615 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, drop zones, air you know air fields, that 616 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: their primary a f A c MS is air traffic 617 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: control and or radio maintenance and uh and so you know, 618 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: I listened to the spill and I think Chief Houses well, 619 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: he says, well, boy, you know, you think this is 620 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,879 Speaker 1: what you want? And I said, yes, k, I think 621 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: this is what I want. I said, surelle don't want 622 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: to go back to the Controller's office and deal with 623 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 1: eight safes to classified. And so he says, okay, he says, 624 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: I'll help you fill out your cross training paperwork and 625 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: I will give TACK Headquarters a call. We is combat 626 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 1: tool add an office up there at the time. And uh. 627 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: And so I went back to CPO CBPO. Thank the chief, 628 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: you know, I thank was Chief Davis. And you know 629 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: if I recall, you know, for his assistance, and then 630 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,320 Speaker 1: you know he uh uh you know, helped with the 631 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: paperwork also and got sent off. But during that time frame, uh, 632 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: first I was supporting a Special Forces exercise called Exotic 633 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: Dancer up at Fort Brad. I'd love to know how 634 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: they came up with that exercise name. Yeah, yeah, holy a, 635 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: Fort Brade is correct. So so the colonel was kind 636 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: enough the count floor and says, hey, we gotta provide 637 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: an appmin support you for this uh exercise at Brett. 638 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: He says, how'd you like to go up and get 639 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: familiar with an army post. Fort Bragg's a big army post. 640 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: And he knew I was trying to proustrate and combat rods. 641 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: I might give you, you know, there for an insight. 642 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: So and you know, so I said, yeah. So, so 643 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: they sent me up there for six weeks, you know, 644 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:33,919 Speaker 1: and I was assigned to the the Ops center as 645 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: the admin supports of the ops uh you know, tess 646 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: up folks. And so I ended up work in the 647 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: night shift and supporting the senior non comm's in there 648 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: and the office officer, and and you know, of course 649 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: they they were, you know, very helpful. I kind of 650 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: told him, you know what I was trying to accomplish. 651 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 1: The next and then they asked me, so, well, what 652 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: are you doing for physical fitness to prepare for a 653 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: jump school? You know? And I said, well again, I'm 654 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: just doing my normal thing going out, you know, exercise 655 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: and running my tennis shoes and uh, okay, you need 656 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: to get a set of combat boots, and you need 657 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 1: to start working on running three miles and making eight 658 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: minutes a mile, and you need to work on your 659 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: pull ups, your push ups and you know, etcetera, etceter So. 660 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: You know, one of the senior non times there took 661 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: me out the parade field at night and would run 662 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,760 Speaker 1: me through the routine and you get me into a routine, 663 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: and and I would go do that every morning when 664 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: I got up shift, go do my p key routine 665 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: to prepare for jump school. And when I got done, 666 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: you know, uh you know with that, you know, my 667 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: last week up, they're one of the guys took me out, 668 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 1: said hey, you want to learn how to repel? Yeah, 669 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 1: I said, what the hell's repel? And so slide death 670 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,879 Speaker 1: rope on a cliff or whatever you so, yeah, yeah, hey, 671 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: you know I enjoyed that. So they took me out 672 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,919 Speaker 1: one of the training areas and taught me the basics retailing, 673 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: and then we said, okay, well we're gonna do a 674 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: river crossing. And so they kind of just gave me 675 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: some adventure training, you know, I guess in thanks for 676 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: what I was doing up there administratively and kind of 677 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 1: given me a perspective of some of the things I 678 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 1: may see in the future. And and then I went 679 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: back to the Robert and you know, my cross training 680 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: had been approved and uh first stopped was Fort Benning, 681 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:51,840 Speaker 1: Georgia and U so and that started started my cross training. 682 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:58,400 Speaker 1: U into combat control and this would been U I 683 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: guess Jurne A seventy one when I went to jump 684 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: school if my memory sharved me correctly. So you got 685 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: the jump school and then you had to go on 686 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,359 Speaker 1: to learn the whole job of air traffic control UM 687 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: and the broader job field of combat controlling. Right, yeah, 688 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: you know today you know the combat control pipeline is, 689 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:32,439 Speaker 1: you know it iss well orchestrat. Back during my time 690 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: frame cross training, it was a hit and miss. So 691 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: you know, you know, jump school was the first available 692 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: school that they could send me to or they had 693 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: a slot to you. Then, So I went to Jump 694 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: school and graduated, and I came back to Hurlbert and 695 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: then they had another set of orders for me. They 696 00:44:54,800 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: sent me to uh Combat Control School. And then I 697 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: came back from Combat Control school. Uh. Then they had 698 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: had another set orders said okay, okay, now we're gonna 699 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: send you to Air Traffic Control school or now can 700 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,399 Speaker 1: I take that back? Actually, when I came back from 701 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: jump school, then they sent me back to Keysler for 702 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 1: Air Traffic Control school. And I came back from that, 703 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,240 Speaker 1: and then I had to wait and go to Combat 704 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: Control School. And then so instead of the pipeline that yeah, 705 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 1: most folks are familiar with the day, this was just 706 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 1: you complete one school, you come back, and then you 707 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: would have to wait for orders and hopefully the slot 708 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,040 Speaker 1: was there so you could boom. So you could actually 709 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:52,160 Speaker 1: go into a holding pattern for weeks or months in 710 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: some cases. Uh. In my case, you know, it pretty 711 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 1: it went pretty smooth. You know, I didn't. I wasn't 712 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: a holding pattern very long today. As in all the 713 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,720 Speaker 1: special operation and I mean it's a well orchestrated training 714 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,800 Speaker 1: process from you know, building block all the way to 715 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: the end until you're awarded your beret or tried in uh, 716 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 1: et cetera. Yeah, back in you know those days, it 717 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,439 Speaker 1: was all very much like a mom and pop shop. 718 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: There wasn't even any really such thing as special operations. 719 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: You know, there were Seals and Green Berets and you know, 720 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,320 Speaker 1: forward air controllers or combat controllers, but there was no 721 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: Just to remind some of our listeners, there's no such 722 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 1: thing as Special Operations Command. There's no such thing as 723 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:47,840 Speaker 1: Special Forces Command. That's correct. I mean each each service 724 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: kind of had their own individual special ops, you know, 725 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 1: portion or peace. It wasn't what I consider real, wasn't joint, 726 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: lack of term and in the training processes, you know, 727 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: very based on it was Army, Navy or Air Force 728 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:15,839 Speaker 1: and UH and again and I like that today. UH. 729 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: And so I stayed in what I call the training 730 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 1: pipeline from junior seventy one until I think the last 731 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 1: school I was sent to, UH was the Navy Underwater 732 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: Swimmer School in Key West, Florida, which was run by 733 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:42,279 Speaker 1: the Navy Seals at the time. And the interesting spent 734 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,560 Speaker 1: on that I the school before that, I was out 735 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,560 Speaker 1: at Ferchannel Air Force Base at the Air Force Survival School. 736 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: And so you know that's the three long and I 737 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 1: guess about twenty one day process. And you know, I 738 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,439 Speaker 1: get back off that school and you know, I'm still 739 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: recovery and from you know, I'm eating anything I can 740 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: see in sight, you know. And uh. And so I 741 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: get in and I signed back into the unit, you know, 742 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: get my certificate stuff to the training n c O. 743 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 1: And and they in the training n CEO looks at 744 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 1: me and says, hey, can you swim? You know, just 745 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: scuba halo. None of that was a prerequisite to be 746 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: a combat control or you know, to be a combat control. 747 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,680 Speaker 1: You didn't have to be hailor school fought, nor did 748 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,719 Speaker 1: you have to swim. Uh. And I said, yeah, you know, 749 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 1: I've taken swimming classes to y m c A, you know, 750 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,279 Speaker 1: when I was a kid. And he says, good. He said, 751 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,840 Speaker 1: we're you know, the guys in charge of Scooper are 752 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 1: going to take you out to um uh but to 753 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 1: help the FUNI act Springs I think was the name 754 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:02,640 Speaker 1: of the place and orientate you to scuba because we're 755 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: going to send you a scuba school. Uh, Monday or Sunday. 756 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 1: So this was like a Thursday or Wednesday. So they 757 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,920 Speaker 1: take me out to the springs to see if I 758 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: could swim and then they put a set of ink 759 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,560 Speaker 1: with twins seventy twos with the double holds regulator, you know, 760 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:28,239 Speaker 1: to teach me how to breathe, uh, you know, and 761 00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:33,160 Speaker 1: you know, practice buddy breathing and all that. So, you know, 762 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 1: I was, you know, in the springs there for I 763 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:41,200 Speaker 1: don't know, I guess now too said okay, you're you're 764 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,719 Speaker 1: good to go. And you know, next thing, I know, 765 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,720 Speaker 1: I'm reporting in it the scuba school, at the underwater 766 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,879 Speaker 1: swimmer school they called it at Key West. So you're 767 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 1: getting all kinds of new things as a young guy, 768 00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,040 Speaker 1: just having all this training thrown at you. Yeah. I 769 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: think the point is that you take a look at 770 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,440 Speaker 1: what they do to prepare a guy to go to 771 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:10,279 Speaker 1: Scooba today, the scuba training, the pre Scooba program, and 772 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,719 Speaker 1: think that, you know, and I'm not the only one 773 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: that went through a similar process. Can you swim okay? 774 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,480 Speaker 1: You know, let's make sure you can swim okay? Now 775 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:22,960 Speaker 1: this is value breathe on a double holes regulator and 776 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: boom hockey go. And that was that school was tough. Uh, 777 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, the Seals ran a tough program. And what 778 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 1: was interesting is most of the class that the clapped. 779 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 1: My classmates were para rescue or para rescue trainings. Well 780 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,160 Speaker 1: para rescues, you go back. They already had a what 781 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: I consider a well orchestrated formal typeline. And so these 782 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,879 Speaker 1: guys are coming out at Lacklan Air Force Base after 783 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,279 Speaker 1: I'd say through o l uh. You know, training was 784 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,520 Speaker 1: like twelve weeks and they spent a ton of time 785 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,000 Speaker 1: one in and swimming. You know, that was you know, 786 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,200 Speaker 1: that was their main focus. And so when they show 787 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,399 Speaker 1: up at Scooba School well health. You know, they could 788 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:22,360 Speaker 1: swim like damn sharks and run like gazelts. They are 789 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,080 Speaker 1: held good shapes. And of course then you know that 790 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,920 Speaker 1: these guys were given my my instructors, the Seals a 791 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,320 Speaker 1: hard time and always pushing button, you know, pushing their buttons, 792 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,840 Speaker 1: and you know, you know, guess what, you know, the 793 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:43,320 Speaker 1: the for lack of turn out, I said, the repercussions 794 00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:49,760 Speaker 1: of that that you went to everyone. So the Seals 795 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,919 Speaker 1: were the Seals were smoking you guys pretty hard in retaliation. 796 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:59,239 Speaker 1: I take it. Oh, yeah, you know it. It was Yeah, 797 00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:04,600 Speaker 1: that was an interesting time and it was it was 798 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,320 Speaker 1: a good experience, Don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't 799 00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: sign up to do it again. And boy would been 800 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,840 Speaker 1: nice to have some pre scoogle because you know, every 801 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,799 Speaker 1: thing that you're doing, it was it was a new 802 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,399 Speaker 1: It was new to me, you know, you know, learning 803 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,320 Speaker 1: how to swim at the Y Y m c A 804 00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: and then going to under our swimmer school run by 805 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,719 Speaker 1: his seals. It is like day and night. Sounds like 806 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,560 Speaker 1: a pretty big indjustment. Yeah, well, I mean yeah, it's 807 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:35,400 Speaker 1: it reminds me of like Rangers School. It's like I 808 00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,320 Speaker 1: learned a lot, but I don't think I want to 809 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:45,080 Speaker 1: go back. Yeah, and uh and what's interesting just tell 810 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,440 Speaker 1: the story is this? You know? Of course, you know, 811 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:52,439 Speaker 1: we lead up to what he called the pool Harassment Day, 812 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,800 Speaker 1: you know. And I have to be honest. I was nervous, 813 00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:01,640 Speaker 1: as nervous. I probably scared, you know, because I heard 814 00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: all kinds of horror stories about pool rasp and I'm 815 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,640 Speaker 1: sitting there in my swim buddy and you know, he said, hey, 816 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,799 Speaker 1: don't you know, I don't use his name. He said, 817 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,120 Speaker 1: don't worry about it, you know, Mike, Kay, Hey, I'm 818 00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:21,359 Speaker 1: a Patty certified screw the diver and I can hold 819 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 1: my breath for so long and you can have my 820 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 1: regulator if they tear yours out of the map, etcetera, etcetera, 821 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,360 Speaker 1: and you know, just you know, just hang on, you know. 822 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,239 Speaker 1: So you know, I kind of gave me a you know, 823 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,840 Speaker 1: a nice uh you know, a little bit of comfort. 824 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,920 Speaker 1: And of course, you know is as you know, this 825 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,480 Speaker 1: is payback time, you know, from the Seals perspective. So 826 00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, they take you and you you face away 827 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,200 Speaker 1: from the pool, so your back to the pools. You 828 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,360 Speaker 1: can't really see what's going on. They just call you 829 00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,680 Speaker 1: by while your swim uh buddy number or whatever K, 830 00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: Team one, team two, whatever. And so you know, I'm 831 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,680 Speaker 1: sitting there, you know, with my swim buddy and the 832 00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: first groups in and then you know, and all of 833 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, yea, the Seals did a great 834 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,400 Speaker 1: job of making sure everybody got to come to the 835 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,560 Speaker 1: top of the pool, you know, and you you know, 836 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,480 Speaker 1: you can imagine some of the you know, which you 837 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,240 Speaker 1: could hear, you know, and you're sitting there saying, Holy Christ, 838 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,200 Speaker 1: you know what till is going on back there? And uh, 839 00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, finally it's our turn to enter the pool, 840 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,320 Speaker 1: you know, so we enter the pool, you know, the 841 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,799 Speaker 1: point is go down. When we get down, and all 842 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,279 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, you know, three or four 843 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,320 Speaker 1: of these instructors on you like stink on you know 844 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,640 Speaker 1: what you know, mask is ripped off, double old gregular 845 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:56,279 Speaker 1: wrapped around your neck. You know, uh, boom and by time, 846 00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,360 Speaker 1: you know, the first barrage of the instructors hitting and 847 00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,440 Speaker 1: hitting us. And by time, you know, I got my 848 00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,200 Speaker 1: senses around me or what what the hell just happened? Yeah, 849 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,160 Speaker 1: And of course I don't have my mask, and I'm 850 00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,800 Speaker 1: looking at and I'm looking for my swim buddy. You know, 851 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:15,960 Speaker 1: I'm kind of boom and so what's the lappen? You know, 852 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,160 Speaker 1: I got the breath. Double is regularly wrapped around my neck, 853 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,239 Speaker 1: so I can't get a air. And I'm saying, work 854 00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:29,920 Speaker 1: works by swim buddies regulated he promised me good and 855 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:36,839 Speaker 1: and he'd already shot at the top, you know, yeah, 856 00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:40,200 Speaker 1: And I'm sitting there saying and boom. So I'm trying 857 00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:44,040 Speaker 1: to untangle myself down there, and I'm basically saying I'm 858 00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,680 Speaker 1: not going to the top. I'm gonna gradually I'm not 859 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,719 Speaker 1: going to the top. And so I'm you know, obviously 860 00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:53,359 Speaker 1: running out of you know, my ability to hold my breath. 861 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,240 Speaker 1: But then eventually one of the you know, sealed structures 862 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,680 Speaker 1: came down, you know, you know, wanted me to come 863 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,600 Speaker 1: to the top. So I came to the top, and 864 00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,640 Speaker 1: of course there's my swim buddy. He's got a death 865 00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:11,560 Speaker 1: grip on the uh the stairs, and you know, saying, 866 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,000 Speaker 1: I'm not going back then, I'm not going down to 867 00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm looking at him, and you know, structure send me 868 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,360 Speaker 1: the other. So I get up there, and and so 869 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:26,680 Speaker 1: they assigned me another swim buddy to go back through. Yeah, 870 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:28,880 Speaker 1: and I'm looking at this guy. This guy is out 871 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,400 Speaker 1: of the coast guard. Yeah, and he don't want to 872 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,640 Speaker 1: be there. And you know, I went back and guess 873 00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:39,520 Speaker 1: what I went. And I'm saying, I've just got I 874 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,480 Speaker 1: got that that draw. I'm getting the you know, for 875 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:48,440 Speaker 1: lack of term on well swim buddy, yeah, buddy, it's 876 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:53,200 Speaker 1: only half the word, right. Yeah. And so because next time, okay, 877 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,600 Speaker 1: here I am, theyll tangled up there, they come send 878 00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:00,920 Speaker 1: me back. And this time, okay, h this is my 879 00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,040 Speaker 1: third joe at it gave me another swim buddy. You know, 880 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,640 Speaker 1: because I stayed down there, I wouldn't come up until 881 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,919 Speaker 1: they maybe even though I probably ranked half the damn 882 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,799 Speaker 1: swimming pool. Uh, you know, they gave me this guy 883 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,960 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, and he was Pee Carrissment. Mike Brown 884 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:25,640 Speaker 1: was his name, and he had had been in the 885 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,880 Speaker 1: class previously, or a couple of classes previously. He blew 886 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,720 Speaker 1: an ear drum on the deep die, the graduation die. 887 00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,560 Speaker 1: So they made him go all the way back through 888 00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,160 Speaker 1: the course from A to Z. And so he became 889 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:46,760 Speaker 1: my third swim butt and you know he was he 890 00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:51,720 Speaker 1: was solid, cool, cool cucumber came down. You know, we 891 00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,800 Speaker 1: went through everything they threw at us. And I'll tell 892 00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: you what, you know when the instructor came down and 893 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,960 Speaker 1: aided us to go to the shallow into the full, 894 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:08,920 Speaker 1: meaning you know you completed poor aspect. Yeah, I swear 895 00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,200 Speaker 1: I was probably jumping up and down on the swimming 896 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,040 Speaker 1: in the swimming pool. If you can jump on this 897 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:18,400 Speaker 1: down under water, I said, lulah, you know who? Yeah, 898 00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:24,720 Speaker 1: and uh you know. And so from all the training 899 00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:29,120 Speaker 1: I had from a physical and mentally demanding, uh that 900 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,640 Speaker 1: that school really tested me. Not that the other ones didn't, 901 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,479 Speaker 1: but this one really, you know, pushed it to the women. 902 00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:42,720 Speaker 1: It was a great test physically and mentally dealing with 903 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:48,120 Speaker 1: a lot of things. And and so uh, the seals 904 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,200 Speaker 1: that ran that course to the hell with jobs and 905 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:56,800 Speaker 1: the guys that graduated from there deserved to graduate. And again, 906 00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,520 Speaker 1: like I said, a great experience, but I wouldn't want 907 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,240 Speaker 1: to do it again. I bet you were able to 908 00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,520 Speaker 1: also graduate with sort of a new kind of self confidence, 909 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,280 Speaker 1: as you know, you graduated a very difficult course and 910 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,479 Speaker 1: we're moving on to your new career in the Air Force. Yeah, 911 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 1: and that's you're exactly correct. And then the other thing 912 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,920 Speaker 1: is is you know I ended up, you know, for 913 00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:26,440 Speaker 1: lack of term, being the Distinguished Graduate honor graft of 914 00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:32,120 Speaker 1: the course, which I didn't anticipate, but from an academic side, 915 00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,720 Speaker 1: but then I guess on the performance side of everything 916 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:41,680 Speaker 1: that they evaluated, you know, it was a it was 917 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,760 Speaker 1: a good confidence builder that you know, if I can 918 00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:49,919 Speaker 1: make it through this, uh, you know what's next? Yeah, 919 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,800 Speaker 1: well can you get in then get into what came next? 920 00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,280 Speaker 1: Because I was reading about how, you know, your first 921 00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:00,600 Speaker 1: assignment as a young combat controller was being assigned to 922 01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,280 Speaker 1: I suppose what we would call today an inter agency 923 01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:08,200 Speaker 1: mission in LAOS. Yeah. Yeah, and that's a you know, 924 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,720 Speaker 1: I mean you talked about a you know, for lack 925 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:17,040 Speaker 1: of term, you know, kind of a h fortunate you know, 926 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:22,880 Speaker 1: blessed opportunity. Uh you know, you you know, I'm kind 927 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:25,080 Speaker 1: of lost for words. But you know, I came back 928 01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:30,520 Speaker 1: from you know, from Scuba school, and uh, you know, 929 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to take some leaving, ain't I graduated like 930 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,560 Speaker 1: the twenty five of May nineteen seventy two from there, 931 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,800 Speaker 1: when I'm on an airplane and you know, and uh 932 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:49,440 Speaker 1: ended up meeting a young lady on the aircraft to 933 01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:54,040 Speaker 1: it was from Minneapolis, Minnesota, and you know, kind of 934 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:58,200 Speaker 1: talked about you know, trying to get together and you know, etcetera, etcetera. 935 01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,840 Speaker 1: And so I'm coming back and I think we're going 936 01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:05,040 Speaker 1: into Memorial Day weekend if my dates are correct. And 937 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,400 Speaker 1: so I said, well, what the heck, I'll just fly 938 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,720 Speaker 1: up and go to Minneapoli has never been to Minnesota, 939 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,760 Speaker 1: so you know, adventure. So you know, I checked in 940 01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:18,360 Speaker 1: with my train and SEO and the chief, which was 941 01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,720 Speaker 1: Chief MASSR. Jim Out. I've told him, hey, you got 942 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, you had the algic leaf slift and phone 943 01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:28,680 Speaker 1: numbers and all that stuff, and boom and you know, 944 01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,800 Speaker 1: and I had, you know, during my passing in the 945 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:36,640 Speaker 1: in the unit as you come in and go out 946 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,880 Speaker 1: to the different schools. You know, I always heard about this, 947 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:44,520 Speaker 1: uh you know project the guys were going overseas to 948 01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,640 Speaker 1: sports called Project four or four, and uh, you know, 949 01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:51,600 Speaker 1: I kept always bugging the end, so I see here 950 01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,120 Speaker 1: in the chief, uh you know, periodically when I had 951 01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,720 Speaker 1: an opportunity to sam Hey, you know, I'm a volunteer, 952 01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, you know, I want to go on Project 953 01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:04,240 Speaker 1: four for traitor, and always got told that you're too young, 954 01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:07,560 Speaker 1: you don't have enough for seasoning. You know, you're still 955 01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,960 Speaker 1: in the training process. You know that, you know all 956 01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,720 Speaker 1: those sets. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it, you know. 957 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:15,760 Speaker 1: And I just want to let you know, you know, 958 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:19,720 Speaker 1: i'd really like to be considered. And you know, when 959 01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:22,040 Speaker 1: I came out of Scoogler School and that was pretty 960 01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:27,880 Speaker 1: much completed my well call phase three combat ready training. 961 01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:33,240 Speaker 1: And but again I'm I'm just the new just the 962 01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:39,080 Speaker 1: recent certified combat ready combat controller and the team and 963 01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:44,240 Speaker 1: really never imagine that I would have an opportunity to 964 01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:48,640 Speaker 1: go over a project for for so young in my career. 965 01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,880 Speaker 1: So when I was on leave, uh, I get this call, 966 01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,440 Speaker 1: uh you know from chief out you know where I 967 01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,560 Speaker 1: was staying up in the improvement and I thought I'd 968 01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:05,120 Speaker 1: done something wrong. Cheets told me. And you know, I'm 969 01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:08,480 Speaker 1: starting to think, jeez, I do something wrong. Felt paperwork 970 01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:14,360 Speaker 1: and in buffed floors, right, you know, you know all 971 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,000 Speaker 1: those things right. And he says no, he says sorry, 972 01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:22,320 Speaker 1: Lamping says you still volunteer Project four or four. I said, 973 01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,360 Speaker 1: just Jeef, I am, well there, get your ass on 974 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,160 Speaker 1: the airplane, get back here, because you got to start 975 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,440 Speaker 1: uh doctor nation training over at the Coin school. Uh 976 01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,880 Speaker 1: you know whatever Monday like the first to tune or something. 977 01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:42,840 Speaker 1: So uh yeah, next thing I know, I'm packing my 978 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:47,120 Speaker 1: bags and running out of the airplane and and run 979 01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,960 Speaker 1: into the airplane and yeah, get back into robert On. 980 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:54,120 Speaker 1: I think it was like a Sunday or Monday evening 981 01:03:54,280 --> 01:04:00,440 Speaker 1: and and went into the Yeah, Coin Schools called it 982 01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:06,640 Speaker 1: the counter you know, surgency type school there to start 983 01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,400 Speaker 1: the orientation training. You know what project for for was 984 01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,480 Speaker 1: And you know what they did is they sent you 985 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:17,960 Speaker 1: over in small teams. And so in that orientation was 986 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:22,680 Speaker 1: a guy named Major Jerry Ryan and the mass startan 987 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:28,640 Speaker 1: Charlie day. You know, both those gentlemen have been there 988 01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:34,600 Speaker 1: numerous times season obviously, and actually you know Major Ryant 989 01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:38,240 Speaker 1: had flown one of the A one ease. I think 990 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,200 Speaker 1: he was a lead or alternate lead for the Sante 991 01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:47,960 Speaker 1: ray of the one East. So again very you know, 992 01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:54,480 Speaker 1: very skilled combat pilot, very knowledgeable. So those are the 993 01:04:54,600 --> 01:05:00,720 Speaker 1: two gentlemen that I ended up going over to UH 994 01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:07,080 Speaker 1: on Project four or four. And again I'm I'm the youngster. 995 01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:13,680 Speaker 1: You know, I'm lacking any what I call operational combat experience. 996 01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:19,400 Speaker 1: So to be able to go just coming ride out 997 01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:24,120 Speaker 1: of training into an operation like that and supported you know, 998 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,520 Speaker 1: the agency's operation up there and what we call twenty 999 01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:33,200 Speaker 1: alternate Long Chin, which was the primary phase for the 1000 01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:38,560 Speaker 1: agency operations into the Plane of Jars and Northern Alaos 1001 01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:44,760 Speaker 1: was quite an honor. Could you elaborate a little bit 1002 01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:49,360 Speaker 1: on four or four? And you know what the mission was, Well, 1003 01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:58,640 Speaker 1: four or four was the Air Forces UH support what 1004 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,520 Speaker 1: I call more of a fitness it was a fit 1005 01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:07,680 Speaker 1: mission for an internal defense mission that you basically were 1006 01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:15,280 Speaker 1: supporting the Lows and General General Thang Pals UH Mountain 1007 01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:20,560 Speaker 1: Tribesman Army, and it was pretty much UH an inter 1008 01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:25,320 Speaker 1: Agency was the agency show and it was their their 1009 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,600 Speaker 1: war in Laos and so like in the team, I 1010 01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,520 Speaker 1: was a scientist. I think there was like five five 1011 01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,720 Speaker 1: or seven active duty military guys and that was at 1012 01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:40,480 Speaker 1: you know, and obviously mine was you know, career field 1013 01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:48,800 Speaker 1: combat control. Charlie Gay was aircraft mechanic. Obviously Major Ryan 1014 01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:54,480 Speaker 1: was the AOC commander, but you know, the senior pilot. 1015 01:06:56,240 --> 01:07:01,240 Speaker 1: We had to intel, uh, the briefer n c O 1016 01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,400 Speaker 1: s up there, and I think one was Officer n 1017 01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:09,200 Speaker 1: CEL and we also have a at a medic firm 1018 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,000 Speaker 1: he over and that made up the team. And you know, 1019 01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:17,840 Speaker 1: we pretty much were there to provide our expertise, our 1020 01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:24,520 Speaker 1: military expertise to that operation. And uh, you know, of 1021 01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:28,880 Speaker 1: course the Raven program, the Raven facts, we're an inner 1022 01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,880 Speaker 1: part of that, and a lot of things that we 1023 01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,520 Speaker 1: did up there. We're in support supported the Ravens and 1024 01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:43,480 Speaker 1: supported the Galo Air Force and General Thank House, uh 1025 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:49,960 Speaker 1: military operations which all we're being orchestrated or overseen or 1026 01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:54,080 Speaker 1: directed by the Agency. So you guys were flying bird 1027 01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:59,040 Speaker 1: Dog air support for the paramilitary forces on the ground, 1028 01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:03,800 Speaker 1: that's correct. Yeah, the Ravens were doing all the Ford 1029 01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:09,880 Speaker 1: air controlling up there, directing you know, just not air 1030 01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:15,480 Speaker 1: force or Navy or marine assets, but also um the 1031 01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:21,920 Speaker 1: lay Ocean air Force up there, and we and most 1032 01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:27,080 Speaker 1: of the pilots were h came you know, we're either 1033 01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:31,760 Speaker 1: Lay Ocean or Mouth Hills Price and pilots that flew 1034 01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:37,519 Speaker 1: out of long chain. And so they would basically yeah, 1035 01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:41,519 Speaker 1: you know, report into the raven facts on station. Who 1036 01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:45,600 Speaker 1: are you know, work in different targets along there, and 1037 01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:50,760 Speaker 1: you know myself decides to do in flight falling, uh 1038 01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:55,400 Speaker 1: you know, maybe occasion assists with their track control there 1039 01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:02,559 Speaker 1: also did a lot of what I call aircraft maintenance stuff. 1040 01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:07,240 Speaker 1: I would be out there helping Charlie uh and uh 1041 01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:15,080 Speaker 1: four nationals uh you know, load up to with bombs, 1042 01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:20,280 Speaker 1: refuel them. Uh, you know, you load up the fifty coal, 1043 01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,120 Speaker 1: you know. So you became a jack of all traits 1044 01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:25,920 Speaker 1: and you just kind of jumped in and did what 1045 01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,360 Speaker 1: needed to be done at the time as well as 1046 01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,880 Speaker 1: what your primary role was. And so I you know, 1047 01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:37,920 Speaker 1: I became quite knowledgeable for lack of term that I 1048 01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:43,240 Speaker 1: consider h airfield operations more so than just the like 1049 01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,760 Speaker 1: falling piece and and what was going on. Reference are 1050 01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:52,479 Speaker 1: traft control, but the mechanical piece. You know, I helped 1051 01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,479 Speaker 1: Charlie occasionally when he's trying to repair something. Now obviously 1052 01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,880 Speaker 1: I don't hand me this ranch hand me that. You know, Uh, 1053 01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:03,479 Speaker 1: you got a check for a chip light, which is 1054 01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,120 Speaker 1: where you're pulling down the screen where the oil runs 1055 01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:09,200 Speaker 1: through to see if there's any metal. You know, that 1056 01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,920 Speaker 1: the engine is starting to you know, see its last 1057 01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,120 Speaker 1: legs or whatever. So I learned to turn up there 1058 01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,600 Speaker 1: and then every morning, uh, you know, we would go 1059 01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:23,160 Speaker 1: out and check each the t back end of the 1060 01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:29,040 Speaker 1: tight where the battery systems were connected to the aircraft, 1061 01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:33,040 Speaker 1: and we would always check, you know, just to make 1062 01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:39,120 Speaker 1: sure uh sappers or saboteurs or somebody hadn't come in 1063 01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:44,680 Speaker 1: and planted something or you know, messed up something. So 1064 01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:48,360 Speaker 1: that was kind of a routine depth you know, when 1065 01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,720 Speaker 1: you know, when time permitted, I would participate in. But 1066 01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:57,360 Speaker 1: most of the time, you know, that was the ground 1067 01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:01,880 Speaker 1: crew and you know, Charlie was there as well as 1068 01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:08,520 Speaker 1: the Air America mechanics assigned to maintain the Raven aircraft. 1069 01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,800 Speaker 1: So it uh, I learned learned to tun you know, 1070 01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:16,600 Speaker 1: occasionally I went out and assisted with you know, a 1071 01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:23,400 Speaker 1: couple air drops re supply drops when uh, the foreign 1072 01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:28,200 Speaker 1: nationals either had didn't have radios or had comp problems, 1073 01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:32,720 Speaker 1: or hadn't been properly trained to put out in Verndale 1074 01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:37,600 Speaker 1: or you know, whatever the case could be. And that 1075 01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:42,680 Speaker 1: how was that? Yeah, No, that's great. So, I mean 1076 01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,719 Speaker 1: that's how it sounds like, that's how you learned really 1077 01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:48,680 Speaker 1: how to be a combat controller. But also you were 1078 01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:53,000 Speaker 1: learning all the um, you know, ancillary tasks that kind 1079 01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:56,519 Speaker 1: of play into airfield operations and aircraft, which I'm sure 1080 01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:02,320 Speaker 1: came in handy as your career progressed. Yeah. Again, it 1081 01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:05,360 Speaker 1: served me well. You know, of course I didn't have 1082 01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:09,160 Speaker 1: a what I call a combat control trainer or mentor 1083 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:14,280 Speaker 1: at the time. The guy you know replaced We got 1084 01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:18,360 Speaker 1: to spend a little time together before he rotated back 1085 01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:22,639 Speaker 1: to the States, and so you know, my real mentor 1086 01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,320 Speaker 1: you know, for lack of term on up there was 1087 01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:32,840 Speaker 1: Charlie Dick, not necessarily on you know, combat control type operations. 1088 01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,640 Speaker 1: I took what I you know, from my training and 1089 01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:41,160 Speaker 1: applied it and you kind of learned by your own mistakes, 1090 01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,920 Speaker 1: if that may make sense. That didn't work? Well? Did 1091 01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:51,240 Speaker 1: it masked? What were you thinking, and I would I 1092 01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,360 Speaker 1: would also just take a moment to point out, for UM, 1093 01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:56,720 Speaker 1: for listeners who were interested in learning a little bit 1094 01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:58,680 Speaker 1: more about what was going on in Laos in the 1095 01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:03,080 Speaker 1: American involvement, there are uh, James Parker, he wrote a 1096 01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:08,040 Speaker 1: book about it. He was a a ci A paramilitary officer, 1097 01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:11,000 Speaker 1: UM wrote a very good book about it. And UM, 1098 01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:13,320 Speaker 1: if I can toot my own horn just a little bit, 1099 01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:16,400 Speaker 1: I wrote an article about George Washington Bacon, who was 1100 01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,639 Speaker 1: a McFee SAG soldier UM and went on to serve 1101 01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,840 Speaker 1: in the same paramilitary operation in Laos after he left 1102 01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:27,720 Speaker 1: the Army UM SO. And then there's another book called 1103 01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:32,840 Speaker 1: Shadow War. Actually that's pretty comprehensive about the paramilitary operations 1104 01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:35,960 Speaker 1: and Laos. So therese are a few resources, um that 1105 01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:38,200 Speaker 1: people could draw on if they're looking to learn more 1106 01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,880 Speaker 1: about what Mike is talking about, UM from the Air 1107 01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:46,280 Speaker 1: Force perspective. Yeah, in uh, you know, James Parker, he 1108 01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:49,880 Speaker 1: was up there, and at the same time, you know, 1109 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,439 Speaker 1: at least during Mike he was obviously spent a ton 1110 01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:55,519 Speaker 1: of time up there, right. I was only up there 1111 01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:58,479 Speaker 1: for you know, six seven months, and uh, you know, 1112 01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:03,320 Speaker 1: I think his code name was Bear if I recall correctly, 1113 01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:08,760 Speaker 1: and Bacon was Kayak, yeah, Kayak yeah. And if I 1114 01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:13,639 Speaker 1: were called Kayak when I was there was wounded, uh 1115 01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,600 Speaker 1: when he was out on a pelotopter that shot in 1116 01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:21,519 Speaker 1: the leg, if if my memory searched me correctly, you know, 1117 01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:27,040 Speaker 1: and uh uh you know, so I really got you know, 1118 01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:33,599 Speaker 1: the what I call a great, great experience, but really 1119 01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,840 Speaker 1: an honor to serve with a lot of those uh 1120 01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, you know heroes are you know, warriors, um 1121 01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:46,920 Speaker 1: working on the other side, and you know a lot 1122 01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:52,479 Speaker 1: of them had spent time in inactive duty. And in fact, 1123 01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:56,920 Speaker 1: I worked with one gentleman up there, um got called 1124 01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:01,040 Speaker 1: Digger O'Dell, which was a Marine Corps officer. But he, 1125 01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,600 Speaker 1: I guess come out, you know it got out of 1126 01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:10,200 Speaker 1: the Middle Marines, uh or took us, uh you know, 1127 01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,840 Speaker 1: a short stint off the Marine Corps and worked as 1128 01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:17,559 Speaker 1: a case officer for them, and I think his primary 1129 01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,840 Speaker 1: worked up around LEMA Site thirty two, which was fairly 1130 01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,280 Speaker 1: closed due to the border up there in North Vietnam. 1131 01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:28,799 Speaker 1: And ironically, you know, ended up working with him again 1132 01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:34,320 Speaker 1: when he came back on active duty. Uh. And he 1133 01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,280 Speaker 1: was you know, was part of the initial stand up 1134 01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:44,160 Speaker 1: staff at Jaysack when we stood up Jaysack. Interesting, Mike, 1135 01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:46,719 Speaker 1: I want to cover just a little bit more today, 1136 01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:48,479 Speaker 1: But I was wondering if we could have you on 1137 01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:50,880 Speaker 1: again for a part two at some point, because we're 1138 01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:53,559 Speaker 1: really just like scratching the surface here. There's so much 1139 01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,439 Speaker 1: more I wanted to get into UM and so many 1140 01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:02,000 Speaker 1: interesting things he did during your career. Sure, okay, yeah, um, 1141 01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:05,439 Speaker 1: well before let's try. I guess I don't know what 1142 01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,680 Speaker 1: a good point is to leave off. I mean, do 1143 01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:10,720 Speaker 1: you want to talk a little bit about UM, your 1144 01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:14,160 Speaker 1: time in Thailand, um before we kind of going, And 1145 01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,960 Speaker 1: maybe the next time we have you on we can 1146 01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:22,040 Speaker 1: talk about UM uh and Desert one and go on 1147 01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:28,800 Speaker 1: from there through UM Grenada and Panama and all those things. Yeah, yeah, 1148 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,439 Speaker 1: you know. And so I had to part as Laus. 1149 01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,639 Speaker 1: I think it was like the end of January seventy three, 1150 01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:38,960 Speaker 1: February seventy two. But you know, the activity up there 1151 01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:44,400 Speaker 1: a long chan and all across the different A O 1152 01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:49,479 Speaker 1: s and uh uh whios really started to almost coming 1153 01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:53,719 Speaker 1: to a screech and halt with the the peace stocks 1154 01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:59,120 Speaker 1: going into full gear over there in Paris. If if 1155 01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:04,960 Speaker 1: my memories correctly, so pretty much, you know, I was 1156 01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,920 Speaker 1: probably you know, one of the last comeback controllers that 1157 01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:15,679 Speaker 1: you served on Project for Forum as it was still active. 1158 01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:19,479 Speaker 1: And then uh the gentleman that replaced me, I think 1159 01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:23,800 Speaker 1: he was only there for uh maybe a month or two, 1160 01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,880 Speaker 1: and then he came came on back. Because pretty much 1161 01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:31,840 Speaker 1: those operations that pretty much been put on the shelf 1162 01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:36,200 Speaker 1: for for the time being in fact pretty much came 1163 01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:39,479 Speaker 1: to an end I think by the end of seventy three, 1164 01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:44,200 Speaker 1: if not sooner mid seventy three. So when I got 1165 01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:50,320 Speaker 1: back to um for over, you know, after that TD 1166 01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:58,240 Speaker 1: y U, I had worked, h you know, for lack 1167 01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:03,479 Speaker 1: of interfaced with the combat controllers out of Thailand, out 1168 01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:09,440 Speaker 1: of Debt one South and they were they were training 1169 01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:17,080 Speaker 1: h the agencies uh Ford air guides to be able 1170 01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:20,320 Speaker 1: to put in air strikes. So they occasionally would make 1171 01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:25,840 Speaker 1: trips up in country to visit their former students and 1172 01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:28,800 Speaker 1: you know, you know, but they would also fly the 1173 01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:37,320 Speaker 1: gunships at night that we're you know working uh Laotian areas. Uh, 1174 01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:42,720 Speaker 1: just interface with their Ford air guides that you know, 1175 01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:46,720 Speaker 1: some were to allow you know, some were you know 1176 01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:53,280 Speaker 1: from General Banked House a group of tribesmen. And so 1177 01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:57,559 Speaker 1: when I got back to Provert, I think the other 1178 01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:02,599 Speaker 1: thing I remember chin here is that those guys out 1179 01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:08,880 Speaker 1: of Debt one ft six HOUSECT also ran a project 1180 01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:14,639 Speaker 1: towards the end of the f F one eleven bombing 1181 01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:21,280 Speaker 1: beacon projects. Yeah, where they would they came in, Uh, 1182 01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:24,840 Speaker 1: they set up what they called Red Dog control and 1183 01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:30,439 Speaker 1: then they would the America would fly them around to 1184 01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:36,240 Speaker 1: insert PPN eighteen beacons on different naptops and then they 1185 01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:43,080 Speaker 1: would go plot the strikes for the up elevens for 1186 01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:47,960 Speaker 1: that evening or the following day. So they were involved 1187 01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:52,080 Speaker 1: in So when I got back to her overt let 1188 01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:55,680 Speaker 1: it be known, and I wanted to return to the 1189 01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:58,800 Speaker 1: Southeast Asia. I wanted to go to Debt one ft six, 1190 01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:02,720 Speaker 1: comeback control and you know, continue to be part of 1191 01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:08,240 Speaker 1: that operation in some shape or form. And so fortunately 1192 01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:13,240 Speaker 1: again you know, Chief out was instrumental and said, jeez, 1193 01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:18,400 Speaker 1: you haven't been here long, ya come and go, Come 1194 01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:20,639 Speaker 1: and go get your training. I send you a laus 1195 01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:22,800 Speaker 1: and now you want to leave Rice, Thanks, what's wrong 1196 01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,200 Speaker 1: with you? He says? I just wanted to stay in 1197 01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:29,280 Speaker 1: the action, Chief, And he said okay, So he did 1198 01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:35,280 Speaker 1: me another solid. He called our personnel center and Randolph 1199 01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:39,559 Speaker 1: Air Force Base and worked some magic and I got 1200 01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:45,400 Speaker 1: orders back to Thailand. Uh, within jeez, you know, I 1201 01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,160 Speaker 1: got back into her obrand in February sevent three. I 1202 01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:53,520 Speaker 1: was back in Thailand, I think, uh was it September 1203 01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:58,519 Speaker 1: seventy three, October seventy three, so I was back over 1204 01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:03,640 Speaker 1: there in Thailand. Of course, we were still maintained that 1205 01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:08,200 Speaker 1: that unit was still running forward air time training. Uh, 1206 01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:12,679 Speaker 1: you know, we're policing up, you know, keeping things current 1207 01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:18,520 Speaker 1: for the lay oceans and stuff. But during that transition 1208 01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:20,800 Speaker 1: and what was going on in Laos and things pretty 1209 01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:30,240 Speaker 1: much standing down, is when they started the SCOOT program. 1210 01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:37,240 Speaker 1: And the SCOOT program was Support Support Cambodia out of Tailing, 1211 01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:45,080 Speaker 1: and so you know, we were by unit, the whole unit. 1212 01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:49,240 Speaker 1: And then also at the same time we switched names. 1213 01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:53,320 Speaker 1: We were no longer get one fifty six Sou or 1214 01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:57,040 Speaker 1: did the fifty six sou out of knock Off and On, 1215 01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:03,240 Speaker 1: which was our headquarters, all of a sudden became now 1216 01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:09,080 Speaker 1: us US mac TI. Uh that kind of fell under 1217 01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:14,880 Speaker 1: the umbrella, just mag out of Thailand and they brought 1218 01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,479 Speaker 1: back on active duty. If you look back in the 1219 01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:23,320 Speaker 1: history books, General Addimal he was a colonel that they 1220 01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:27,960 Speaker 1: promoted him to general at the time. So General adder 1221 01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:34,400 Speaker 1: Hole took command of us mac Gui UH to oversee 1222 01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:40,320 Speaker 1: the train up of the Cambodians and so our porson 1223 01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:45,320 Speaker 1: and CCT was number one was to continue to train 1224 01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:51,960 Speaker 1: h the Cambodians and for air guide procedures. But at 1225 01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:58,040 Speaker 1: the same time we got tasked with m assisting and 1226 01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:02,800 Speaker 1: training the C one twenty three crews that had been 1227 01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:09,000 Speaker 1: identified UH in the Cambodian Air Force to uh you know, 1228 01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:17,120 Speaker 1: resupply Cambodian forces, the one from high altitude. So we 1229 01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:24,200 Speaker 1: ended up besides doing Ford air guide training, we also 1230 01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:29,479 Speaker 1: ran the airfield down in Doongpong. It's about eighty miles 1231 01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:35,479 Speaker 1: south of um Fodor and Tawny Roald Top Tire Base 1232 01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:40,839 Speaker 1: where we were based, and that's where all the raven 1233 01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:46,200 Speaker 1: facts and the pilots would bring all their students to 1234 01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:50,600 Speaker 1: uh learn how to do touch and goes land the aircraft. 1235 01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:56,240 Speaker 1: So we're running that airfield UH there for the oh 1236 01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:59,519 Speaker 1: ones and the tights. At the same time, we were 1237 01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:05,639 Speaker 1: running the drop zone for the three crews UH dropping 1238 01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:10,160 Speaker 1: these CDs bundles from high altitude, and we would end 1239 01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:16,000 Speaker 1: up being responsible for recovering those training bundles in the parachutes, 1240 01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:18,519 Speaker 1: and then we'd have to you know, a portion of 1241 01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:23,480 Speaker 1: us would have to fly back to overdoor and reconfigure 1242 01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:27,000 Speaker 1: the loads underwords, doing a the Air Force would call 1243 01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:31,000 Speaker 1: an aerial port function, as uh, we didn't have aerial 1244 01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:35,080 Speaker 1: port personnel, so we were end up packing the cargo shoots, 1245 01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:41,160 Speaker 1: reloading the fifty gallon barrel drums and the CDs bundles, 1246 01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:46,479 Speaker 1: and that went on and on for you know. Through 1247 01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:52,960 Speaker 1: that our main focus was now training the Cambodians, first 1248 01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:56,160 Speaker 1: of the ties and the laws, and Mike the well, 1249 01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,479 Speaker 1: at first I would point out that we ran or 1250 01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:03,280 Speaker 1: the know, you guys ran a successful um U W 1251 01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:07,479 Speaker 1: operation out of Thailand, I mean really for the duration 1252 01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:11,559 Speaker 1: of the Vietnam War um and into you know, seventy five. 1253 01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,599 Speaker 1: But also there was can you help me out there 1254 01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:16,880 Speaker 1: was the name of the fit mission we ran in 1255 01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:19,200 Speaker 1: Cambodia had had a funny name, and I'm trying to 1256 01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,800 Speaker 1: recall it and for some reason I can't remember, Um 1257 01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:26,560 Speaker 1: do you remember that the name of it? Mike, I 1258 01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:29,800 Speaker 1: don't don't remember it. Off the top of my head. 1259 01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:34,040 Speaker 1: The only thing I kind of remember was Scoot and 1260 01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, for US support Cambodia out of Thailand. Yeah, 1261 01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:41,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure there was a name, and I'll try to 1262 01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:44,680 Speaker 1: do some reason. Yeah, we can put we can pull 1263 01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,000 Speaker 1: it up on Google if we start looking around for it. 1264 01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:50,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure because it's all declassified now. But it had 1265 01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:52,519 Speaker 1: a funny name. And I just remember talking to a 1266 01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:56,799 Speaker 1: retired Special Forces officer and like he would just grown. 1267 01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:58,800 Speaker 1: He did not like the mission because he got sent 1268 01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:00,439 Speaker 1: on it a couple of times. You know what I 1269 01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:04,439 Speaker 1: should look up maybe or um, well you type in 1270 01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:10,840 Speaker 1: like um special Forces mission in Cambodia, see what comes up. 1271 01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:14,880 Speaker 1: But it's like an obscure three letter or four letter name. 1272 01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to scoot around a little bit 1273 01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:21,160 Speaker 1: and find out. I'll be able to figure out because 1274 01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:24,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna be searching through everything that happened during Vietnam 1275 01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:26,360 Speaker 1: and I'm talking about stuff that happened after the war. 1276 01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:29,280 Speaker 1: It was weird. It was like called like the Fat 1277 01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:33,320 Speaker 1: Mission or the had some funny name like that. Um, 1278 01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:35,879 Speaker 1: I'll figure it out. I'll do a little bit of research, 1279 01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:41,439 Speaker 1: but Y go ahead. So yeah, So you know, during 1280 01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,479 Speaker 1: the tour there. Obviously we also worked with the type 1281 01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:49,040 Speaker 1: ordered police on you know certain things, you know, with 1282 01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:54,120 Speaker 1: jump in and assisting with repelling things. So you know, 1283 01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,240 Speaker 1: we had a good working relationship with the type or place. 1284 01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:00,320 Speaker 1: So you know, we were you know for lack turned 1285 01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:04,400 Speaker 1: We didn't lack for things to do. Besides you know, 1286 01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:09,240 Speaker 1: running the training for the Cambodians. We also uh stood 1287 01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:14,719 Speaker 1: up a an air crew three a survival training program 1288 01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:19,880 Speaker 1: for the Combati Cambodian pilots. Uh that they were lacking 1289 01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:22,840 Speaker 1: that type of training, so we kind of went back 1290 01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:27,320 Speaker 1: to our roots of basic h slottal they went to 1291 01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:32,840 Speaker 1: and we designed a three day program especially geared to 1292 01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:37,400 Speaker 1: the Cambodians and their type aircraft and their type equipment, 1293 01:27:37,479 --> 01:27:43,280 Speaker 1: which was well received, and we got support from the 1294 01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:47,880 Speaker 1: West which were i think based out of Non Confindomen 1295 01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:51,680 Speaker 1: to run the penetary training and the vector training and 1296 01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:56,120 Speaker 1: and all that. Uh. You know. The other thing is 1297 01:27:56,320 --> 01:28:00,600 Speaker 1: is we you know, we get occasionally continued to the 1298 01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:10,439 Speaker 1: Agency of Country on certain request. In fact, one of 1299 01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:14,920 Speaker 1: the case officers up there, Jerry Daniels, Bless his soul, 1300 01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:17,679 Speaker 1: it's no longer with us. His code name was Hog, 1301 01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:21,519 Speaker 1: which was you know, I just call him that. He 1302 01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:27,160 Speaker 1: was bank pouse handler, bank pals right hand person. And 1303 01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:32,000 Speaker 1: so as things pretty much came to end up in Wows, 1304 01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:36,120 Speaker 1: he asked us to come up and re certify a 1305 01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:41,000 Speaker 1: lot of general bank Palace Ford air guides to assist 1306 01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:47,559 Speaker 1: them and getting a higher rank or getting some type 1307 01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:51,560 Speaker 1: of position within the allowed army. So we worked with 1308 01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:56,920 Speaker 1: Jerry on that project to the desk of our ability. 1309 01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:03,120 Speaker 1: I don't know how successful that was, but Jerry had 1310 01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:05,680 Speaker 1: come down to the coach a couple of times and 1311 01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:09,360 Speaker 1: asked for assistance. So you know, we we went up there. 1312 01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:14,880 Speaker 1: He sent some of the them down to our our 1313 01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:22,639 Speaker 1: our area to run re certification and reissue certification. Thanks 1314 01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:27,439 Speaker 1: as things came towards the end up there, and actually 1315 01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:33,639 Speaker 1: as things deteriorated and woos Um. Look, people can look 1316 01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:36,160 Speaker 1: back in the history books that you know, the path 1317 01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:41,479 Speaker 1: allout which was the communist you know portion of the 1318 01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:47,120 Speaker 1: Lay Oceans that you know, we're aligned with the North Vietnamese. 1319 01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:54,559 Speaker 1: Really we're yeah, taking control of a lot of the area, 1320 01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:59,160 Speaker 1: especially up in the northern Lay Ocean area where twenty 1321 01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:04,880 Speaker 1: alter and so uh we've got again approached by Cherryal 1322 01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:08,800 Speaker 1: Daniels and obviously are our our chain of command to 1323 01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:14,800 Speaker 1: assist in the removal or evacuation of General bank Pal 1324 01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:22,200 Speaker 1: and as many of his troops and families. So we 1325 01:30:22,360 --> 01:30:27,800 Speaker 1: ended up running an evacuation um in concert with Air 1326 01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:36,400 Speaker 1: America and the Agency, moving General angk Pal in hundreds 1327 01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:42,280 Speaker 1: of his troops and their families from uh, you know 1328 01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:49,040 Speaker 1: to say, out of Long Chin down to Nonpong, which 1329 01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:54,639 Speaker 1: again Nonpong was a former Marine aircase ten thousand foot 1330 01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:59,280 Speaker 1: runaway to high speed taxiways, but also the Special Forces 1331 01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:03,120 Speaker 1: and the Agency had used a portion of that to 1332 01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:08,080 Speaker 1: run training for the what I called the Thigh Volunteers, 1333 01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:13,400 Speaker 1: so they had quite a few facilities available there. So 1334 01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:18,640 Speaker 1: that operation it was in sev right prior to the 1335 01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:22,920 Speaker 1: fall Vietnam, and for the life of me, I can't 1336 01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:26,960 Speaker 1: remember the exact dates, but uh we deployed down to 1337 01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:32,240 Speaker 1: Nonpong and it was strictly a night operation and it 1338 01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:36,720 Speaker 1: was run over I think three nights that we ran 1339 01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:42,000 Speaker 1: at airfield just using um, you know, you know, beam 1340 01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:46,880 Speaker 1: back lights, you know, coffee cans with gas and it, 1341 01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:49,479 Speaker 1: you know, you name it to light the runway and 1342 01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:54,320 Speaker 1: and the Air America used to see forty six is 1343 01:31:55,640 --> 01:32:01,720 Speaker 1: see forty seven's and I think get they used what 1344 01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:04,240 Speaker 1: I used to call the Great Ghost, which was a 1345 01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:09,919 Speaker 1: C one thirty that you know pretty much was attached 1346 01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:14,560 Speaker 1: to the Agency or Air America for doing whatever they do, 1347 01:32:15,240 --> 01:32:22,080 Speaker 1: basically a math expiltration operation. Right. And so over those 1348 01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:24,320 Speaker 1: three nights, and I have to tell you, you know, 1349 01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:29,400 Speaker 1: the weather was just dog do do. Uh you talked 1350 01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:34,679 Speaker 1: about rain and wind and uh, you know, we took 1351 01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:41,080 Speaker 1: down a a non directional beacon, the t R which 1352 01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:45,280 Speaker 1: she was called, and it, you know, would send out 1353 01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:47,640 Speaker 1: a signal the aircraft that they could zone in on 1354 01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:50,599 Speaker 1: it and then we could set up a traffic pattern 1355 01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:54,559 Speaker 1: off it. And it was a challenge putting that fifty 1356 01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:58,280 Speaker 1: antenna up on that base with the weather conditions, but 1357 01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:02,360 Speaker 1: they came in very handy for the aircraft coming out 1358 01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:05,160 Speaker 1: of Laos and and coming up and setting up and 1359 01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:11,320 Speaker 1: coming in under what I considered very austere, uh flying conditions, 1360 01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:16,080 Speaker 1: and those pilots did a magnificent job. But again, here 1361 01:33:16,120 --> 01:33:21,680 Speaker 1: we're running airfield in the pitch dark. We're coming up 1362 01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:24,960 Speaker 1: with every innovative way to light the runway from flash 1363 01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:29,320 Speaker 1: and cheap lights too. You name it. Uh, just taking 1364 01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:31,679 Speaker 1: gas and put it down the center line and enlightening 1365 01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,679 Speaker 1: it just where they could get a beat on where 1366 01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:37,880 Speaker 1: they needed to come. Uh. I don't think any of 1367 01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:41,400 Speaker 1: them at NBGS back then. And these were these were 1368 01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:45,320 Speaker 1: all the techniques you guys were innovating that you came 1369 01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:50,760 Speaker 1: to use, uh, you know in future special operations missions. Yeah, 1370 01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:52,960 Speaker 1: I mean you know a lot of you know that 1371 01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:57,479 Speaker 1: things that we came up, you know, eventually transitioned or 1372 01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, can't fall us as we went through our 1373 01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:07,040 Speaker 1: career and you know, and the Jay soccer here I'll 1374 01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:10,360 Speaker 1: call it, and so you know, that ended up being 1375 01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:14,880 Speaker 1: a very successful operation to my knowledge. I know, Jerry 1376 01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:19,800 Speaker 1: Daniels came over and thanked us personally. I think they 1377 01:34:20,720 --> 01:34:25,719 Speaker 1: we probably they probably brought in at least two thousand, 1378 01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:31,400 Speaker 1: maybe three thousand people over that those three nights, using 1379 01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:34,920 Speaker 1: you know, for pretty much three aircraft, you know, and 1380 01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,400 Speaker 1: everything was done in darkness and so you know the 1381 01:34:38,520 --> 01:34:40,559 Speaker 1: end of you know, when the sun started come up 1382 01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:43,280 Speaker 1: in the boom, we really put their head down and 1383 01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:47,960 Speaker 1: then when darkness came started it all over again. And Mike, 1384 01:34:48,160 --> 01:34:51,160 Speaker 1: I uh, it came to me as as I was listening. 1385 01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,160 Speaker 1: The mission I was thinking of in Cambodia was called 1386 01:34:54,160 --> 01:34:59,719 Speaker 1: the FANK the FANK Mission UH Forces Army Nationale KAMAR 1387 01:35:00,439 --> 01:35:04,679 Speaker 1: uh Commerce UM, which was to train Cambot's um US 1388 01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:10,960 Speaker 1: special Forces training Cambodians at the time. Okay, thanks for 1389 01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:15,040 Speaker 1: down Yeah, yeah, I mean it was it was on 1390 01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:18,080 Speaker 1: the tip of my tongue. UM, but I think we 1391 01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:21,960 Speaker 1: should probably leave it right about there. And UM, but 1392 01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:24,560 Speaker 1: I really really want to have you on to do 1393 01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:27,240 Speaker 1: a part two, Mike, UM, so we can talk about 1394 01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:30,880 Speaker 1: everything that happened afterwards, UM getting into you know, Eagle 1395 01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:33,320 Speaker 1: Claw and how and how you started to use those 1396 01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:36,320 Speaker 1: techniques you were just talking about and um and and 1397 01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:40,040 Speaker 1: also the development of UM Air Force Special Tactics, which 1398 01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:43,360 Speaker 1: I know you played a part in as well. Yeah, 1399 01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:47,320 Speaker 1: yeah we can Yeah. Next, Uh, I can kind of 1400 01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:50,519 Speaker 1: close out on the Thailand, Yes please, UH like that 1401 01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:55,759 Speaker 1: to talk about the evaculation of that we participate reference 1402 01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:59,640 Speaker 1: Vietnam and how we played a role in that, and 1403 01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:03,599 Speaker 1: then and how we went from there to Clark Care 1404 01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:07,800 Speaker 1: based of Philippines and then uh how what initially is 1405 01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:11,479 Speaker 1: called Project Recognition and the formation of what we call 1406 01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:15,840 Speaker 1: Brand X and you know of actually you know, uh, 1407 01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:19,280 Speaker 1: the j sock so calm raor yeah, yeah, no, I 1408 01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:21,040 Speaker 1: want to. I would love to get into all that 1409 01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:24,559 Speaker 1: with you. Um, if we do it now, we're gonna 1410 01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:27,120 Speaker 1: end up with like a three or four hour podcast, 1411 01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:28,560 Speaker 1: So I think it would be better to kind of 1412 01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:32,320 Speaker 1: break it in half. Yeah, and so you know, just 1413 01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:34,320 Speaker 1: take a look at that and listen to it, and 1414 01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:37,680 Speaker 1: if there's things you want to you know, readdress, I 1415 01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:40,559 Speaker 1: have be happy to and uh, you know, sorry, I've 1416 01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:42,559 Speaker 1: kind of hit and miss and kind of all over 1417 01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,800 Speaker 1: the battle space. No, this is perfect. Yeah, you know, 1418 01:36:45,880 --> 01:36:48,800 Speaker 1: and you're you're going in chronological order, so it's easy 1419 01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:51,000 Speaker 1: for people to follow along with as we as you know, 1420 01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:53,920 Speaker 1: you kind of talk about your personal experience and your story. 1421 01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:55,680 Speaker 1: I agree, which is kind of what we do with 1422 01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:59,519 Speaker 1: Mike Vining. It was chronological for them. Yeah. Um. And 1423 01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:04,720 Speaker 1: actually it'll be interesting because um, Mike, Mike's career overlaps 1424 01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:07,200 Speaker 1: with Mike Finding's career in place. I feel like Mike 1425 01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:11,200 Speaker 1: Finding part one was Vietnam era and then part two 1426 01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:15,840 Speaker 1: was mostly post vietnamah and yeah, talking about desert one. Um. 1427 01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:18,439 Speaker 1: And also they were both both of you guys served 1428 01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:23,080 Speaker 1: in Granada too, so that'll be interesting, right. Yeah, and 1429 01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, like you said, I mean my tour duty 1430 01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:30,160 Speaker 1: up and whiles. Again, I was very fortunate. It was 1431 01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:34,040 Speaker 1: an honor and obviously to be able to fall on 1432 01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:38,800 Speaker 1: so rapidly, to get into Thailand, to Thailand and participating 1433 01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:45,160 Speaker 1: that really really gave me, uh what I called a 1434 01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:49,640 Speaker 1: hell of a toolbag that you know, I carried on 1435 01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:59,280 Speaker 1: and took those experiences. Uh two, implement and influence whatever 1436 01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:03,479 Speaker 1: you want to call the transformation of my own career 1437 01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:08,160 Speaker 1: field and the stand up the dead one makers or 1438 01:38:08,280 --> 01:38:13,920 Speaker 1: now sts. So this sounds like to be continued, you know. 1439 01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:18,400 Speaker 1: Just give me some dates and uh, I'm probably gonna 1440 01:38:18,479 --> 01:38:21,599 Speaker 1: expend a little time in Steamboat Springs called Rattle. Yeah, 1441 01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:23,040 Speaker 1: and I mean not a problem. It doesn't have to 1442 01:38:23,120 --> 01:38:26,120 Speaker 1: be next month. It could be November, it could be December. 1443 01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:30,080 Speaker 1: But well we'll definitely do it again. You guys can 1444 01:38:30,200 --> 01:38:32,920 Speaker 1: call me when I'm in a steamboat. I'll just give 1445 01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:36,080 Speaker 1: you a date time whatever you know. Dates. I guess 1446 01:38:36,160 --> 01:38:42,360 Speaker 1: Tuesdays and Thursdays are your normal days. That's correct, okay, 1447 01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:45,200 Speaker 1: but let me look at my my schedule and then 1448 01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:48,640 Speaker 1: I'll shoot you guys an email and say, hail, I 1449 01:38:48,720 --> 01:38:51,320 Speaker 1: can come up on the net here, here and here 1450 01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:54,720 Speaker 1: and see what works force. How's that? That's perfect, Mike, 1451 01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:57,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I mean, it's really been a pleasure. 1452 01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:00,120 Speaker 1: Um and I'm learning a lot to listening as we go, 1453 01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:02,519 Speaker 1: so I mean, I'm really looking forward to having you 1454 01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:05,960 Speaker 1: on again to get into, um, you know, the whole 1455 01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:09,680 Speaker 1: other side of this. Okay, great, thanks so much. Oh 1456 01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:11,799 Speaker 1: and you know, and as we're wrapping things up, actually 1457 01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:13,920 Speaker 1: did want to mention this, I don't want to forget 1458 01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:16,439 Speaker 1: so as as I mentioned in the intro, you're still 1459 01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:19,200 Speaker 1: currently on the Board of Directors for the Special Operations 1460 01:39:19,280 --> 01:39:22,479 Speaker 1: Warrior Foundation. If people want to visit that, it's special 1461 01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:25,679 Speaker 1: ops dot org, and I should ask if there's anything else. 1462 01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:27,439 Speaker 1: I know you're not like a you're a more low 1463 01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:29,519 Speaker 1: profile guy, but if there's anything else that you want 1464 01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:35,000 Speaker 1: to plug, feel free. Okay, yeah, you know, I'm I'm 1465 01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:38,400 Speaker 1: not an active member on the boarding on what the 1466 01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:43,240 Speaker 1: board and meritus. I still ten functions, you know, and 1467 01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:47,519 Speaker 1: still speak if if they need my assistance or whatever 1468 01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:51,200 Speaker 1: the case might be. So still active and still very 1469 01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:56,360 Speaker 1: supportive that that foundation that came out of you know, uh, 1470 01:39:56,720 --> 01:40:00,600 Speaker 1: doesn't what And the foundation uh takes care of the 1471 01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:06,519 Speaker 1: families of ki A Special Operations soldiers, if I'm not mistaken, 1472 01:40:08,120 --> 01:40:12,559 Speaker 1: it takes care of you know, anyone that's been killed, 1473 01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:16,759 Speaker 1: you know, on active duty across the board that's assigned 1474 01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:18,600 Speaker 1: a special lots. So we used to just kind of 1475 01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:24,479 Speaker 1: focus on combat operations, but expanded that too, you know, 1476 01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:32,840 Speaker 1: you know, training operational combat uh two basically you know, 1477 01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:37,080 Speaker 1: cover cover the kids of those individuals that end up 1478 01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:42,360 Speaker 1: paying the ultimate sacrifice being in combat for uh, noncombat 1479 01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:47,960 Speaker 1: activities and uh, you know it's donna kind of held 1480 01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:51,559 Speaker 1: a job. And we've been able, you know, the board, 1481 01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:56,439 Speaker 1: along with assistance from a lot of folks, been able 1482 01:40:56,600 --> 01:40:58,640 Speaker 1: to go back all the way from the time we 1483 01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:03,000 Speaker 1: stood up the Special Operational Ward Founding, which actually was 1484 01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:09,080 Speaker 1: initially called the Bull Simons uh Scholarship Fund uh and 1485 01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:17,080 Speaker 1: transitioned into Special Operations Warrior Foundation. Uh. Every buddy that's 1486 01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:20,439 Speaker 1: been assigned a Special ops since that time frame. So 1487 01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:25,519 Speaker 1: now and touch each of the families and assist each 1488 01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:30,360 Speaker 1: of the families, uh where we could, you know, and 1489 01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:34,360 Speaker 1: some some of the children had already been into you know, 1490 01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:38,080 Speaker 1: I had always transitioned in adult age, but the foundation 1491 01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:41,000 Speaker 1: continue to look at how how we could lend assistance 1492 01:41:41,640 --> 01:41:47,080 Speaker 1: uh to them. Reference there their sacrifice, the loss of 1493 01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:51,560 Speaker 1: their their parents. Excellent. Yeah, they do a lot of 1494 01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:56,040 Speaker 1: good work there. So thank you, Mike. Okay, thanks Michael. 1495 01:41:56,040 --> 01:42:02,000 Speaker 1: We'll touch base soon. Yeah, okay, I appreciate it. I 1496 01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:04,000 Speaker 1: think the audience is really gonna dig that one man. 1497 01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:07,320 Speaker 1: That was great. Yeah, I I should have known. It's uh, 1498 01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:10,400 Speaker 1: you know, the same as the Mike Vining interview. I mean, 1499 01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:12,800 Speaker 1: some of these guys just have such an extensive career 1500 01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:16,080 Speaker 1: and they did so much. Um. But I mean both 1501 01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:20,920 Speaker 1: both Mike, both Mike's uh Mike Lampi and Mike Vining 1502 01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:27,400 Speaker 1: both served from Vietnam. Um, I think right through desert storm. Um. So, 1503 01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:29,360 Speaker 1: I mean these guys just did so much and had 1504 01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:34,400 Speaker 1: such a six so yeah, such extensive careers that you 1505 01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:36,880 Speaker 1: can't cover it in one podcast. We usually go like 1506 01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:39,000 Speaker 1: an hour hour and a half. It's like it's not 1507 01:42:39,240 --> 01:42:43,200 Speaker 1: long enough. Yeah, this is closer to two hours. So excellent. Um. 1508 01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:45,840 Speaker 1: Really enjoyed having Mike on. I'm sure you guys are 1509 01:42:46,360 --> 01:42:50,200 Speaker 1: anticipating Part two. This week has been some killer shows. 1510 01:42:50,560 --> 01:42:52,519 Speaker 1: Before we get out of here, be sure to check 1511 01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:55,640 Speaker 1: out Great Club. The exclusive collaboration watch we did with 1512 01:42:56,160 --> 01:42:59,280 Speaker 1: NFW Watches is one of the next big items. I 1513 01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:03,240 Speaker 1: saw a photo of it. I believe um. I think 1514 01:43:03,240 --> 01:43:05,240 Speaker 1: it's on the Create Club Instagram. But it's a picture 1515 01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:07,160 Speaker 1: of Nick Betts with the watch. I could tell from 1516 01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:10,240 Speaker 1: his tattoos. It's just a risk photo. But um looks 1517 01:43:10,280 --> 01:43:13,960 Speaker 1: badass man. Uh. That's in an upcoming premium crate. We 1518 01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:16,760 Speaker 1: have different tiers of membership depending on how prepared you 1519 01:43:16,840 --> 01:43:19,680 Speaker 1: want to be, and gift options are available as well. 1520 01:43:19,800 --> 01:43:22,280 Speaker 1: Scott Whitner from the load out Room and the guys 1521 01:43:22,280 --> 01:43:28,120 Speaker 1: are currently working on bringing you custom products in everything 1522 01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:31,679 Speaker 1: from sunglass cases to E d C bags and other 1523 01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:35,560 Speaker 1: manly products. It's a club four men by men. 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The 1542 01:44:35,240 --> 01:44:39,240 Speaker 1: spec Ops channel Premier show Training Cell follows former Special 1543 01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:43,120 Speaker 1: Operations Forces as they participate in the most advanced training 1544 01:44:43,160 --> 01:44:47,519 Speaker 1: in the country, everything from shooting schools, defensive driving, jungle 1545 01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:51,080 Speaker 1: and winter warfare, climbing and much more. And you can 1546 01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:54,160 Speaker 1: watch that content by subscribing to the spec Ops Channel. 1547 01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:57,920 Speaker 1: That's at spec ops channel dot com. Take advantage of 1548 01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:01,679 Speaker 1: that deal only four month spec option channel dot com. 1549 01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:04,559 Speaker 1: Check out the app. And on the note of apps, 1550 01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,280 Speaker 1: we have a software ap radio app that's in the works. 1551 01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:09,760 Speaker 1: I'm excited for that. People have been asking for it 1552 01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:13,000 Speaker 1: and I've been slacked on this. I gotta get to it. 1553 01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:15,799 Speaker 1: In the next few days, we're gonna launch a software 1554 01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:20,080 Speaker 1: radio Facebook page that's separate from everything else, so be 1555 01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:24,200 Speaker 1: on the lookout for that. Get our visibility up, and yeah, 1556 01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:26,600 Speaker 1: this has been a killer week of shows, man, I 1557 01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:39,839 Speaker 1: think people will enjoy it. Hell yeah, you've been listening 1558 01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:44,639 Speaker 1: to self rep Radio. New episodes up every Wednesday and Friday. 1559 01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:48,880 Speaker 1: Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at self rep 1560 01:45:49,000 --> 01:46:02,880 Speaker 1: Radio or