WEBVTT - Superheroes Aren't Real 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.720 Hey everyone, it's Carvel and before we get into this episode, 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:07.120 I want to ask you a favor. Throughout this series, 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.720 we've talked a lot about how Fred Rogers has helped 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:12.280 show us how to make the world a kinder place, 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.720 a better place. But now we want to hear from you. 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.920 We want to hear a story about when someone in 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.840 your life showed you what it means to be a helper. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.200 Maybe it's someone in your family, or someone in your community, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:28.960 or someone that you haven't seen since you were a kid, 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.479 but that you still think about something they did to 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.560 help you. Whoever they are, wherever they are, however they're helping, 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.080 we want to hear about it. So give us a 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:41.120 call at three three six five one five zero five 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:43.920 to nine. Again, that's three three six five one five 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.920 zero five to nine, and tell us a story about 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:50.080 someone who has shown you how to be a helper 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.120 and we might just play it on an upcoming episode. 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.520 Again that number is three three six five one five 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.959 zero five two nine, or you can tweet you're still 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:04.120 with the hashtag finding Fred. Okay, now let's start the show. 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:14.440 Here's a question. Did Fred Rogers do enough by he 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.560 had lived and breathed children's television for more than twenty years. 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.840 He had found kid friendly ways to cover death and 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:27.440 assassination and segregation, but also haircuts and doctors visits and 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.920 moving to a new home. And he felt like he'd 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.840 done enough. He felt that he created a library of 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.480 television visits that covered everything a child needed to know 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:45.720 about growing up. So Mr Rogers decided he was done. 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.080 In a week of episodes slated to be his last, 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.440 Mr Rogers takes us out to his garage, where he 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.320 shows us a big cabinet filled with dozens and dozens 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.240 of VHS tapes, all neatly lined up in rows. See 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:05.640 those are all different visits, television visits that we have 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:12.480 on tape. Share this one Justice. He is about to 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.680 pop one of these tapes into the VCR. Mr McFeeley 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:18.720 stops by and the two get to talking about how 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.200 McFeeley has changed since his earliest visits to the neighborhood. 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.840 I remember the days when it was very, very hard 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.320 for you to sit still, Mr McFeeley. Well, I used 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:31.160 to talk louder then, and talk faster. I'll show you 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.040 a tape on that machine over there, and see if 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.679 you remember that visit. I'd like to see that visit. 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:42.040 You know, my video tape machine over here, see if 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:49.120 you remember this time when you came to visit me already. 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.079 Fred plays the tape and the two watch what is 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.520 essentially a rerun of a Mr. Rogers neighborhood segment from 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.480 a few years before. Then, Fred explains, we'll be seeing 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.960 a lot of reruns from now on. Well, next week 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.840 we'll start to show all of these visits so everybody 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.200 can see them the whole way through. Well, I'll look 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:13.440 forward to that. And with that Mr Rogers signed off. 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.920 I'm Carvela Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.120 about Fred Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:35.760 partnership with Transmitter Media. Fred Rogers felt like he'd done enough. 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:40.640 He created an encyclopedia of programs that anticipated the questions 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:45.280 and anxieties that children have as they grow and learn, like, 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.480 for instance, getting poked and prodded or stuck with a needle. 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.560 Over the years, Fred had made several visits to optometrists 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.640 Barbour's Doctors. Producer Arthur Greenwald worked with Fred in a 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.880 series of episodes about going to the hospital. You had 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:03.720 a long time interest in how children are frightened or 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:09.080 overwhelmed by hospitalization. You know, I was really struck by 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.720 There was this moment where he was talking about X rays. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:13.440 He was talking with the physician about X rays, and 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.400 the physician was explaining, well, even we can see your bones, 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.159 And then Fred said, I know some children who will 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:22.080 wonder if if you can see my bones, can you 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:25.039 X ray my head and see my thoughts? If you 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.000 can see the inside of a hand with X ray, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.800 could you see the inside of somebody's head and know 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.480 what that person is thinking? No, uh, the X ray 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:39.320 picture won't show thoughts, feelings. Those are things that we 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.240 really can't see a touch. Our thoughts are very own, 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.240 all right, Thoughts are our own. That's good to know. 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.920 When I watched that, I laughed out loud because he 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:53.800 was a grown man, and but it wasn't like silly. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.599 It was like kind of phenomenal and magical that he 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:00.159 was able to capture a very specific, very clear thought 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.560 of a child. That was important. And of course some 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.960 people look at you like you're insane, But who said 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.000 anything about an X ray seeing my thoughts and feelings? 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.960 But by God, that is exactly what a preschool was thinking. 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.520 Fred was always working to eliminate misunderstandings, and that was 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.800 a real gift for television audience of toddlers who weren't 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.600 necessarily used to being seen and heard and responded to. 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:31.160 But this kind of deep focused listening made adults uncomfortable 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.520 because they're socially just not used to people paying attention 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.080 to their every word, and so a lot of the 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:41.760 things will casually say as a passing joke, Fred would 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.679 pause an interpret it out loud, which would be either 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:50.040 illuminating or embarrassing, depending on you know, how comfortable you 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.279 are with that sort of conversation. It seems like Fred 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.080 was betting on most people being comfortable with that kind 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.919 of thing, because when he left Mr Rogers Neighborhood, he 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.200 set out to make a new television program for adults. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.160 He developed a new show with PBS called Old Friends, 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:11.839 New Friends. It featured Fred talking with other adults about 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.880 what they're passionate about and where their inspiration comes from. 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.920 That's what he was interested in. This is TV critic 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.880 David b. And Cooley. It's like, if you're a musician, 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:26.160 where does the music come from? You know? What was 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:31.600 it like that made you become a musician and sort 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.560 of get to the bottom of what what is art 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:38.159 and what is an artist. The show was documentary style. 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.440 Fred visited different locations around the country. He talked to 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.880 famous and not so famous people about their lives and 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.599 show them at work. Pittsburgh baseball legend Willie Stargel opened 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.479 up about resilience. Comedian Milton Burrow talked about the rewards 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.560 of fame. Fred visited Robert Frost's daughter An NPR hosts 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:02.560 Susan Stamberg. Old Friends, New Friends was conversational, warm, and 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:07.160 because this was still Fred Rogers after all, it was slow. 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.880 Responses to the show were mixed. I saw them and 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:17.120 and I loved what he was doing with them, but 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.040 you have to you have to be open to it 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.640 and be interested. Not everybody loved it. Fred's biographer Max 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.040 King told me he didn't think it was very good. 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.040 I watched a lot of it. It's not particularly compelling. 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.679 The approach that he brought to children's television just didn't 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:37.040 translate to adult television. Betsy Siemens had worked with Fred 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.680 and Mr Rogers Neighborhood. She later helped produce episodes of 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.400 Old Friends, New Friends, the idea that he was going 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:45.680 to quit doing the neighborhood. I thought, good for you, 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.760 you know, I mean, I I found like people move on. 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:55.080 I mean I I think I think I was aware 0:07:55.320 --> 0:08:01.800 that it was hard for him because he had been 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:06.760 doing this other work for so long, and I think, 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.120 you know, it's hard to just really switch gears and 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.680 work for a completely different audience and in a in 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.920 a really profoundly different medium. The show featured extreme close 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:21.640 ups of people's faces, long silent pauses, deep reflection on 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:26.000 family histories, and many of Fred's signature moves, slow pacing, 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:31.800 intimate production, emphasis, and emotions, but these didn't necessarily translate 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:36.560 for most grown ups. Fred's show was illuminating, but many 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:41.480 viewers found the intimacy embarrassing or even worse on TV boring. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.679 One New York Times critic wrote that for some viewers, 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.880 This Quiet Man may appear to have taken one volume 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:54.240 too many, But I watched it the only episode you 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.280 can really find online an interview with concert pianist Lauren Hollander, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:03.920 and honestly, I found it brilliant. The intimacy, the patient's 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:08.680 Fred's willingness to hover over difficult topics, with sometimes difficult people. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:15.520 Was transfixing. You're the only pianist who has ever communicated 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:23.160 to me the feeling that this instrument is a place, 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:32.600 that it is a country, that it's somewhere that you 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:43.560 go to say something. And I've felt that today. Were Beethoven, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:49.320 the throws of his deafness kept a little chimberpot under 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.400 the keyboard, and he used to keep his head pressed 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:58.680 here against the wood. He could not leave the instrument 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.760 long enough to take care of his needs. And we 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:09.240 who grew up here know that it's an answer, because 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:13.160 there's a way of dealing with that incredibly complex reality. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.000 When I heard that, it occurred to me that maybe 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.880 that is the case for Fred too, that he was 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.680 like Beethoven or Lauren Hollander, and that in a sense, 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:32.320 the precision and love and kindness of Mr rogers neighborhood 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:37.199 was his place, his country where he could deal with 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:43.040 the incredibly complex reality. And he got to go back 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:48.679 there when he returned to Mr Rogers neighborhood. More than that, 0:10:48.920 --> 0:11:07.880 after a break in, Fred Rogers wrote himself a note. 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.120 It's typed neatly on a piece of yellow legal paper, 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.280 the kind Fred used for early drafts of his scripts. 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.920 Am I kidding myself that I am able to write 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.680 his script again? He wrote? Why don't I trust myself? 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:27.400 He continues, after all these years, it's just as bad 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.880 as ever. Oh well, the hour cometh and now is 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.440 when I've got to do it. Get to it, Fred. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.880 Just a few weeks prior, a four year old boy 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:44.000 named Charles Green died after jumping from his grandmother's seventh 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:48.480 story apartment in Brooklyn. His mother told reporters he'd been 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:53.720 trying to fly like Superman. Fred Rogers had already started 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:56.120 working on a new episode to The Neighborhood Program, but 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.880 he was shaken by the story of little Charles Green, 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.600 the kid trying desperately to be like a hero he 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:07.520 saw on screen. When Fred left The Neighborhood Program five 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.959 years earlier, he thought he'd said everything there was to say, 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.400 But the world itself had changed. Daycare was now a 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.920 widespread and normal thing, but clearly a terrifying thing to 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.960 a toddler, and what to say to kids about divorce 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:26.040 as it became more and more prevalent. Television itself had evolved, 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.520 had become a never silent fixture in every home, and 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.120 there were more channels and programs spraying all sorts of 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:37.800 violence and fantasy at children. So Fred did what he 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:42.000 knew how to do best. Remember when I was a boy, 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.400 I used to take a sweater and put it around 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:52.040 my my shoulders like that, hold the arms out like that, 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.640 and pretend that I was flying. Yeah, let's go out here. 0:12:55.679 --> 0:13:01.760 I'll show you what. Had a couple of steps there 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:06.440 at the porch, and I would girl like this. But 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:11.880 of course I never took off. Because only birds and 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:19.440 bats and bugs can fly. People can't. Only birds and 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.280 bats and bugs can fly. I want to sing that 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.800 with me. Only birds and bats and bugs can fly. 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:36.000 Sometimes I wish I could fly, but only birds and 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:44.160 bats and bugs and fly. Fred made an entire week 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.280 of programming about how superheroes aren't real. He even visited 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.080 the Universal Studio sound stage where The Incredible Hulk was filmed, 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.920 and he showed the star looferign no putting on and 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:59.320 taking off his costume. That's all part of his work, 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.920 all part. And here's the special solution that takes the 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.360 green makeup off. I like seeing the makeup coming off 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.640 just as well as going on. But I was glad 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.320 to show my television friends that because it's important to 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:19.000 realize that people just don't change shape and change color. 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.360 That's all just sort of movie business, isn't it. It's 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:28.000 it's just makeup pretend. Of course, you remember the note 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.720 Fred wrote to himself. A few weeks later, he added 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.960 a handwritten PS. It wasn't easy, but it was good. 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:43.000 This I must remember. In the sixteen years since Fred passed, 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.120 he's been turned into a TV superhero himself, someone who 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.880 was born with extra powers of intuition and communication and 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:57.600 self control and love. Fred Rogers wasn't a superhero. His 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.200 biographer told me that Fred himself would be horror hid 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.840 that anybody might think he was a saint. But producer 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.120 Margie Whitmer told me that Fred did believe that his 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.320 show mattered. It's hard, I think when you when you 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.680 become famous, there's lots of people who tell you how 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.280 wonderful you are. You know, he had lots of followers. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.880 You tend to believe that you're making a difference. The 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:24.240 audience was national, even international. There were enormous lineups to 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.280 meet Mr Rogers when he did public appearances. He was 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:31.240 Mr Rogers, but the program was bigger than him. I 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:35.320 just had a letter the other day. It was from 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:41.160 this woman who said, fourteen years ago, I had a 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:47.920 baby who was sixteen months old, and I had that 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:52.840 baby in the backseat of the car, and I was 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:57.560 in such a terrible depression my heart. I didn't even 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.360 know that I had put him back there. And she said, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.360 I was driving along and I saw this truck coming 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.000 and I thought, I'm just gonna end it all. I'm 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:13.119 just gonna go straight into the truck. Because she was desperate, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.000 and she said, I started turning to the left, and 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.720 all of a sudden, I heard this little voice singing, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.680 It's a beautiful day in this And she said, I 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:33.320 veered my car to the right, and I thought of 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:41.920 life and love. And now it's fourteen years later, and 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:49.200 I just need to thank you. Well. You know, to 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:57.400 hear that your works can be used in such wonderful 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:08.680 ways is a great blessing. When I started interviewing people 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.160 for this project, there were two questions. I asked almost 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.200 everyone who knew Fred, did you think he did enough? 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.880 Do you think Fred thought he did enough? And while 0:17:21.920 --> 0:17:24.600 the responses varied, a lot of people told me the 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.960 same thing, Yes, they think Fred did enough, but he 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.080 always wanted to do more. Fred returned to the Neighborhood 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:37.000 Program in nine. The show ran until two thousand one. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.440 He kept at it almost three times as long as 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.760 his first run, for decades and for generations of kids. 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.320 He was a voice of comfort, of stability, and of reason. 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.480 He'd made a special episode when Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.520 He'd recorded p S A S in the middle of 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:59.600 the Gulf War. Fred finally retired in two thousand one, 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:05.159 after nine episodes and thirty years on the air. But 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.000 we don't know if Fred ever actually felt like he 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:13.960 did enough. We do know that just a few weeks later, 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.280 planes flew into the Twin Towers in New York. When 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:26.120 nine eleven happened, he was so distraught. I don't think 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:33.200 that I ever really until that day, I didn't think 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:40.320 on a real internal level about his mission as saving 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.680 the world. I thought. I think I just thought about 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:48.760 it in more practical terms, we of helping people try 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:53.520 and do the best they can. I think it really 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.760 hit home to him when those when the Twin Towers 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:02.720 got hit that he's not the savior. He can't save 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:07.520 the world. Some of Fred's producers including Marty Whitmer, convinced 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:13.240 him to send one final message in his office. I 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:14.840 went up to get him to come down to the 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:19.880 studio and he was. He was a mess. He was said, 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.000 why am I doing these? These aren't going to do 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.000 any good. I said, you have to do them. And 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:29.040 I said, Fred, people care about you, People listen to you. 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.120 You have got to do these. None of us can 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.200 save the world. We can do the best we can do. 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.240 In the p s A Fred recorded after September eleven, 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.800 he repeated his story he'd often told about his mother 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.120 comforting him when he was young. She told him, notice 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.680 the people who are helping during times of crisis. Look 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:59.280 for the helpers. She said, there's always someone trying to help. 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.320 Look for the helpers. Has become this sort of stock meme, 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.240 one that gets reposted all over social media after a catastrophe, 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:12.600 whether a natural disaster or mass shooting. But there's something 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:17.000 I want you to notice about Fred's final message. Listen closely. 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:22.159 Who is he talking to. I'm just so proud of 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.680 all of you who have grown up with us, and 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.280 I know how tough it is some days to look 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.360 with hope and confidence on the months and years ahead. 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.879 But I would like to tell you what I often 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:40.680 told you when you were much younger. I like you 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:45.880 just the way you are. And what's more, I'm so 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.639 grateful to you for helping the children in your life 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.560 to know that you'll do everything you can to keep 0:20:54.600 --> 0:21:00.040 them safe and to help them express their feelings in 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:05.480 ways that will bring healing in many different neighborhoods. It's 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:09.320 such a good feeling to know that we're lifelong friends. 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:17.480 He's talking to us, to the adults in the room. 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.399 His producer, Betsy Siemens says, this is the message of 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:25.879 friends that we need now. Look for the helper. Was 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:30.960 advice to children, and we are not children. And I've 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.200 heard a lot of adults saying, oh well, Fred Rogers 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.000 made me feel so much better because he said look 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.720 for the helpers and no, no, that was advice to children, 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:41.639 and that was not advice to the parent. It's an 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.080 interesting distinction though, between the child and the parents and 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:50.680 the adult. Uh, because the harm that comes to many 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.280 of us in our childhoods. I think this is my 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:58.240 theory my therapist agrees is that is that it we 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.720 get frozen in moments in time and we don't ever 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.800 overcome our childhoods in that way, and so we constantly 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.280 have this child in us that is crying out for 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:08.919 the things that we need as children, crying out for 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.440 safety or for acknowledge, manner for because we don't get 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:15.320 those things as young people. And so I think that 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.320 that may even be we may be experiencing a mass 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.879 level of fact as a country. Maybe it's one of 0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:24.840 my theories. And so when people hear that quote, that's 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:27.800 the child in them, the unhealed child who's still going, 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.960 oh great, now I know what to do. It's it's 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:32.720 hard to be an adult, and it's hard to be 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:39.439 an adult when your own child hasn't been raised. Absolutely, however, 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:43.400 it is the universal human condition. It's true for all 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:47.520 of us, and it was true for him, and I 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:49.359 still think I know that one of the things that 0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:53.280 was very important to him on the program was that 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:56.800 he always be the adult, the adult who can play 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.439 with children, and I mean, he acknowledged all of our 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:05.239 inner children in his own but he also understood that 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.480 there comes a time in life when we also have 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.880 to be the adult. And I think that was one 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:16.200 of the fine points of his work. We're the grown 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:21.560 ups doing what we can. Doing enough doesn't mean fixing 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:25.360 a tragedy as massive as nine eleven, but it does 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:30.480 mean helping every one of us has something essential inside 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:34.480 of us that we can use to help. For Fred, 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.080 that meant sitting at the bedside of a comatose kid, 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:41.000 or staying on the air for thirty years, helping children 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.520 grow into adults who could help other people. What does 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:49.840 it mean for you? I think he drove himself very hard, 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:53.640 and I think his expectations of himself were extraordinary, So 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:57.879 I would guess that he never thought he did enough. 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:04.600 Because here's the thing. There is no enough, There is 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:08.199 no finish line. The problems were faced with are so big, 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:11.800 so many, that no one of us can address them alone. 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:17.000 It's not easy to keep trying, but it's one good 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:21.919 way to grow. It's not easy to keep learning, but 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:27.320 I know that this is so. When you've tried and learned, 0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:33.280 you're bigger inside than you were a day ago. It's 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:38.960 not easy to keep trying, but it's one way to grow. 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:46.200 You've got to you see every little bit, You've got 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.320 to do it, do it, do it, do it, and 0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:55.240 when you're through, you can know who did it for you. 0:24:55.320 --> 0:25:01.480 Did it. You did it. You did it, And when 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:04.800 you've done something that you wanted to do and you've 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:08.200 done it well, you can get such a good feeling 0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:18.600 from that next time. I think it was the first 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:24.639 time in my life where I felt seen by an adult, 0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:29.360 like when he got down to my eye level, introduced 0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:31.560 himself and looked me in the eye. Of course, I've 0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:34.119 had adults introduced themselves to me a million times up 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:35.760 into that point and asked me what my name was, 0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:41.440 But the way that he looked at me, I felt 0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:47.280 like you saw me. Finding Fred is produced by Transmitter Media. 0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.320 The team is Dan O'donald, Jordan Bailey, and Maddie Foley. 0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:54.119 Our editor is Sarah Nicks. The executive producer for Transmitter 0:25:54.160 --> 0:25:57.639 Media is Greta Cohne. Executive producers at Fatherly are Simon 0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:00.199 Isaacs and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team of a 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:03.480 I Heart Media, Fred Rogers interviewed tape courtesy of the 0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:07.159 Television Academy Foundation Interviews. The full interview is available at 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:11.320 Television Academy dot com slash Interviews. Our show is mixed 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:14.240 by Rick Kwan, music by Blue Dot Sessions and Alison 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:17.520 Layton Brown. If you like what you're hearing, rate the show, 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:21.399 review the show and tell a friend I'm Carvell Wallace. 0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:22.359 Thanks for listening.