1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Carvel and before we get into this episode, 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: I want to ask you a favor. Throughout this series, 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about how Fred Rogers has helped 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: show us how to make the world a kinder place, 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: a better place. But now we want to hear from you. 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: We want to hear a story about when someone in 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: your life showed you what it means to be a helper. 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: Maybe it's someone in your family, or someone in your community, 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: or someone that you haven't seen since you were a kid, 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: but that you still think about something they did to 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: help you. Whoever they are, wherever they are, however they're helping, 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: we want to hear about it. So give us a 13 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: call at three three six five one five zero five 14 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: to nine. Again, that's three three six five one five 15 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: zero five to nine, and tell us a story about 16 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: someone who has shown you how to be a helper 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: and we might just play it on an upcoming episode. 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: Again that number is three three six five one five 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: zero five two nine, or you can tweet you're still 20 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: with the hashtag finding Fred. Okay, now let's start the show. 21 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: Here's a question. Did Fred Rogers do enough by he 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: had lived and breathed children's television for more than twenty years. 23 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: He had found kid friendly ways to cover death and 24 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: assassination and segregation, but also haircuts and doctors visits and 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: moving to a new home. And he felt like he'd 26 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: done enough. He felt that he created a library of 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: television visits that covered everything a child needed to know 28 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: about growing up. So Mr Rogers decided he was done. 29 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: In a week of episodes slated to be his last, 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: Mr Rogers takes us out to his garage, where he 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: shows us a big cabinet filled with dozens and dozens 32 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: of VHS tapes, all neatly lined up in rows. See 33 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: those are all different visits, television visits that we have 34 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: on tape. Share this one Justice. He is about to 35 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: pop one of these tapes into the VCR. Mr McFeeley 36 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: stops by and the two get to talking about how 37 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: McFeeley has changed since his earliest visits to the neighborhood. 38 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: I remember the days when it was very, very hard 39 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: for you to sit still, Mr McFeeley. Well, I used 40 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: to talk louder then, and talk faster. I'll show you 41 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: a tape on that machine over there, and see if 42 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,679 Speaker 1: you remember that visit. I'd like to see that visit. 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: You know, my video tape machine over here, see if 44 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: you remember this time when you came to visit me already. 45 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: Fred plays the tape and the two watch what is 46 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: essentially a rerun of a Mr. Rogers neighborhood segment from 47 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: a few years before. Then, Fred explains, we'll be seeing 48 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: a lot of reruns from now on. Well, next week 49 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: we'll start to show all of these visits so everybody 50 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: can see them the whole way through. Well, I'll look 51 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: forward to that. And with that Mr Rogers signed off. 52 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: I'm Carvela Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast 53 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: about Fred Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in 54 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: partnership with Transmitter Media. Fred Rogers felt like he'd done enough. 55 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: He created an encyclopedia of programs that anticipated the questions 56 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: and anxieties that children have as they grow and learn, like, 57 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: for instance, getting poked and prodded or stuck with a needle. 58 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: Over the years, Fred had made several visits to optometrists 59 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: Barbour's Doctors. Producer Arthur Greenwald worked with Fred in a 60 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: series of episodes about going to the hospital. You had 61 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: a long time interest in how children are frightened or 62 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: overwhelmed by hospitalization. You know, I was really struck by 63 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: There was this moment where he was talking about X rays. 64 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: He was talking with the physician about X rays, and 65 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: the physician was explaining, well, even we can see your bones, 66 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: And then Fred said, I know some children who will 67 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: wonder if if you can see my bones, can you 68 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: X ray my head and see my thoughts? If you 69 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: can see the inside of a hand with X ray, 70 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: could you see the inside of somebody's head and know 71 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: what that person is thinking? No, uh, the X ray 72 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: picture won't show thoughts, feelings. Those are things that we 73 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: really can't see a touch. Our thoughts are very own, 74 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: all right, Thoughts are our own. That's good to know. 75 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: When I watched that, I laughed out loud because he 76 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: was a grown man, and but it wasn't like silly. 77 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: It was like kind of phenomenal and magical that he 78 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: was able to capture a very specific, very clear thought 79 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: of a child. That was important. And of course some 80 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: people look at you like you're insane, But who said 81 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: anything about an X ray seeing my thoughts and feelings? 82 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: But by God, that is exactly what a preschool was thinking. 83 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: Fred was always working to eliminate misunderstandings, and that was 84 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: a real gift for television audience of toddlers who weren't 85 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: necessarily used to being seen and heard and responded to. 86 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: But this kind of deep focused listening made adults uncomfortable 87 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: because they're socially just not used to people paying attention 88 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: to their every word, and so a lot of the 89 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: things will casually say as a passing joke, Fred would 90 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 1: pause an interpret it out loud, which would be either 91 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: illuminating or embarrassing, depending on you know, how comfortable you 92 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: are with that sort of conversation. It seems like Fred 93 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: was betting on most people being comfortable with that kind 94 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: of thing, because when he left Mr Rogers Neighborhood, he 95 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: set out to make a new television program for adults. 96 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: He developed a new show with PBS called Old Friends, 97 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: New Friends. It featured Fred talking with other adults about 98 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: what they're passionate about and where their inspiration comes from. 99 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: That's what he was interested in. This is TV critic 100 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: David b. And Cooley. It's like, if you're a musician, 101 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: where does the music come from? You know? What was 102 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 1: it like that made you become a musician and sort 103 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: of get to the bottom of what what is art 104 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: and what is an artist. The show was documentary style. 105 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: Fred visited different locations around the country. He talked to 106 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: famous and not so famous people about their lives and 107 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: show them at work. Pittsburgh baseball legend Willie Stargel opened 108 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: up about resilience. Comedian Milton Burrow talked about the rewards 109 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: of fame. Fred visited Robert Frost's daughter An NPR hosts 110 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: Susan Stamberg. Old Friends, New Friends was conversational, warm, and 111 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: because this was still Fred Rogers after all, it was slow. 112 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: Responses to the show were mixed. I saw them and 113 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: and I loved what he was doing with them, but 114 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: you have to you have to be open to it 115 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: and be interested. Not everybody loved it. Fred's biographer Max 116 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: King told me he didn't think it was very good. 117 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: I watched a lot of it. It's not particularly compelling. 118 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 1: The approach that he brought to children's television just didn't 119 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: translate to adult television. Betsy Siemens had worked with Fred 120 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: and Mr Rogers Neighborhood. She later helped produce episodes of 121 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: Old Friends, New Friends, the idea that he was going 122 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: to quit doing the neighborhood. I thought, good for you, 123 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I I found like people move on. 124 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: I mean I I think I think I was aware 125 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: that it was hard for him because he had been 126 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: doing this other work for so long, and I think, 127 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to just really switch gears and 128 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: work for a completely different audience and in a in 129 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: a really profoundly different medium. The show featured extreme close 130 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: ups of people's faces, long silent pauses, deep reflection on 131 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: family histories, and many of Fred's signature moves, slow pacing, 132 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: intimate production, emphasis, and emotions, but these didn't necessarily translate 133 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: for most grown ups. Fred's show was illuminating, but many 134 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: viewers found the intimacy embarrassing or even worse on TV boring. 135 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: One New York Times critic wrote that for some viewers, 136 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: This Quiet Man may appear to have taken one volume 137 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: too many, But I watched it the only episode you 138 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: can really find online an interview with concert pianist Lauren Hollander, 139 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: and honestly, I found it brilliant. The intimacy, the patient's 140 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: Fred's willingness to hover over difficult topics, with sometimes difficult people. 141 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: Was transfixing. You're the only pianist who has ever communicated 142 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: to me the feeling that this instrument is a place, 143 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: that it is a country, that it's somewhere that you 144 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: go to say something. And I've felt that today. Were Beethoven, 145 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: the throws of his deafness kept a little chimberpot under 146 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: the keyboard, and he used to keep his head pressed 147 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: here against the wood. He could not leave the instrument 148 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: long enough to take care of his needs. And we 149 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: who grew up here know that it's an answer, because 150 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: there's a way of dealing with that incredibly complex reality. 151 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: When I heard that, it occurred to me that maybe 152 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: that is the case for Fred too, that he was 153 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: like Beethoven or Lauren Hollander, and that in a sense, 154 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: the precision and love and kindness of Mr rogers neighborhood 155 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: was his place, his country where he could deal with 156 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: the incredibly complex reality. And he got to go back 157 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: there when he returned to Mr Rogers neighborhood. More than that, 158 00:10:48,920 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: after a break in, Fred Rogers wrote himself a note. 159 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: It's typed neatly on a piece of yellow legal paper, 160 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: the kind Fred used for early drafts of his scripts. 161 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: Am I kidding myself that I am able to write 162 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: his script again? He wrote? Why don't I trust myself? 163 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: He continues, after all these years, it's just as bad 164 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: as ever. Oh well, the hour cometh and now is 165 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: when I've got to do it. Get to it, Fred. 166 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: Just a few weeks prior, a four year old boy 167 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: named Charles Green died after jumping from his grandmother's seventh 168 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: story apartment in Brooklyn. His mother told reporters he'd been 169 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: trying to fly like Superman. Fred Rogers had already started 170 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: working on a new episode to The Neighborhood Program, but 171 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: he was shaken by the story of little Charles Green, 172 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: the kid trying desperately to be like a hero he 173 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: saw on screen. When Fred left The Neighborhood Program five 174 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: years earlier, he thought he'd said everything there was to say, 175 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: But the world itself had changed. Daycare was now a 176 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: widespread and normal thing, but clearly a terrifying thing to 177 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: a toddler, and what to say to kids about divorce 178 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: as it became more and more prevalent. Television itself had evolved, 179 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: had become a never silent fixture in every home, and 180 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: there were more channels and programs spraying all sorts of 181 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: violence and fantasy at children. So Fred did what he 182 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: knew how to do best. Remember when I was a boy, 183 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: I used to take a sweater and put it around 184 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: my my shoulders like that, hold the arms out like that, 185 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: and pretend that I was flying. Yeah, let's go out here. 186 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: I'll show you what. Had a couple of steps there 187 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: at the porch, and I would girl like this. But 188 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: of course I never took off. Because only birds and 189 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: bats and bugs can fly. People can't. Only birds and 190 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: bats and bugs can fly. I want to sing that 191 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: with me. Only birds and bats and bugs can fly. 192 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes I wish I could fly, but only birds and 193 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: bats and bugs and fly. Fred made an entire week 194 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: of programming about how superheroes aren't real. He even visited 195 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: the Universal Studio sound stage where The Incredible Hulk was filmed, 196 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: and he showed the star looferign no putting on and 197 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: taking off his costume. That's all part of his work, 198 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: all part. And here's the special solution that takes the 199 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: green makeup off. I like seeing the makeup coming off 200 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: just as well as going on. But I was glad 201 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: to show my television friends that because it's important to 202 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: realize that people just don't change shape and change color. 203 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: That's all just sort of movie business, isn't it. It's 204 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: it's just makeup pretend. Of course, you remember the note 205 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: Fred wrote to himself. A few weeks later, he added 206 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: a handwritten PS. It wasn't easy, but it was good. 207 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: This I must remember. In the sixteen years since Fred passed, 208 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: he's been turned into a TV superhero himself, someone who 209 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: was born with extra powers of intuition and communication and 210 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: self control and love. Fred Rogers wasn't a superhero. His 211 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: biographer told me that Fred himself would be horror hid 212 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: that anybody might think he was a saint. But producer 213 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: Margie Whitmer told me that Fred did believe that his 214 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: show mattered. It's hard, I think when you when you 215 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: become famous, there's lots of people who tell you how 216 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: wonderful you are. You know, he had lots of followers. 217 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: You tend to believe that you're making a difference. The 218 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: audience was national, even international. There were enormous lineups to 219 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: meet Mr Rogers when he did public appearances. He was 220 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: Mr Rogers, but the program was bigger than him. I 221 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: just had a letter the other day. It was from 222 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: this woman who said, fourteen years ago, I had a 223 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: baby who was sixteen months old, and I had that 224 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: baby in the backseat of the car, and I was 225 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: in such a terrible depression my heart. I didn't even 226 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: know that I had put him back there. And she said, 227 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: I was driving along and I saw this truck coming 228 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: and I thought, I'm just gonna end it all. I'm 229 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:13,119 Speaker 1: just gonna go straight into the truck. Because she was desperate, 230 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: and she said, I started turning to the left, and 231 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I heard this little voice singing, 232 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: It's a beautiful day in this And she said, I 233 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: veered my car to the right, and I thought of 234 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: life and love. And now it's fourteen years later, and 235 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: I just need to thank you. Well. You know, to 236 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: hear that your works can be used in such wonderful 237 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: ways is a great blessing. When I started interviewing people 238 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: for this project, there were two questions. I asked almost 239 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: everyone who knew Fred, did you think he did enough? 240 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 1: Do you think Fred thought he did enough? And while 241 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: the responses varied, a lot of people told me the 242 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: same thing, Yes, they think Fred did enough, but he 243 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: always wanted to do more. Fred returned to the Neighborhood 244 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: Program in nine. The show ran until two thousand one. 245 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: He kept at it almost three times as long as 246 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: his first run, for decades and for generations of kids. 247 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: He was a voice of comfort, of stability, and of reason. 248 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: He'd made a special episode when Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. 249 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: He'd recorded p S A S in the middle of 250 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: the Gulf War. Fred finally retired in two thousand one, 251 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: after nine episodes and thirty years on the air. But 252 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: we don't know if Fred ever actually felt like he 253 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: did enough. We do know that just a few weeks later, 254 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: planes flew into the Twin Towers in New York. When 255 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: nine eleven happened, he was so distraught. I don't think 256 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: that I ever really until that day, I didn't think 257 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: on a real internal level about his mission as saving 258 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: the world. I thought. I think I just thought about 259 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: it in more practical terms, we of helping people try 260 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: and do the best they can. I think it really 261 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: hit home to him when those when the Twin Towers 262 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: got hit that he's not the savior. He can't save 263 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: the world. Some of Fred's producers including Marty Whitmer, convinced 264 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: him to send one final message in his office. I 265 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: went up to get him to come down to the 266 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: studio and he was. He was a mess. He was said, 267 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: why am I doing these? These aren't going to do 268 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: any good. I said, you have to do them. And 269 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: I said, Fred, people care about you, People listen to you. 270 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: You have got to do these. None of us can 271 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: save the world. We can do the best we can do. 272 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: In the p s A Fred recorded after September eleven, 273 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: he repeated his story he'd often told about his mother 274 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: comforting him when he was young. She told him, notice 275 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: the people who are helping during times of crisis. Look 276 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: for the helpers. She said, there's always someone trying to help. 277 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: Look for the helpers. Has become this sort of stock meme, 278 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: one that gets reposted all over social media after a catastrophe, 279 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: whether a natural disaster or mass shooting. But there's something 280 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: I want you to notice about Fred's final message. Listen closely. 281 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: Who is he talking to. I'm just so proud of 282 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: all of you who have grown up with us, and 283 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: I know how tough it is some days to look 284 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 1: with hope and confidence on the months and years ahead. 285 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: But I would like to tell you what I often 286 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: told you when you were much younger. I like you 287 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: just the way you are. And what's more, I'm so 288 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: grateful to you for helping the children in your life 289 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: to know that you'll do everything you can to keep 290 00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 1: them safe and to help them express their feelings in 291 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: ways that will bring healing in many different neighborhoods. It's 292 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: such a good feeling to know that we're lifelong friends. 293 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: He's talking to us, to the adults in the room. 294 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: His producer, Betsy Siemens says, this is the message of 295 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: friends that we need now. Look for the helper. Was 296 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: advice to children, and we are not children. And I've 297 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: heard a lot of adults saying, oh well, Fred Rogers 298 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: made me feel so much better because he said look 299 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: for the helpers and no, no, that was advice to children, 300 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: and that was not advice to the parent. It's an 301 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: interesting distinction though, between the child and the parents and 302 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: the adult. Uh, because the harm that comes to many 303 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: of us in our childhoods. I think this is my 304 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: theory my therapist agrees is that is that it we 305 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: get frozen in moments in time and we don't ever 306 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: overcome our childhoods in that way, and so we constantly 307 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: have this child in us that is crying out for 308 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: the things that we need as children, crying out for 309 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: safety or for acknowledge, manner for because we don't get 310 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: those things as young people. And so I think that 311 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: that may even be we may be experiencing a mass 312 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: level of fact as a country. Maybe it's one of 313 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: my theories. And so when people hear that quote, that's 314 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: the child in them, the unhealed child who's still going, 315 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: oh great, now I know what to do. It's it's 316 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: hard to be an adult, and it's hard to be 317 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: an adult when your own child hasn't been raised. Absolutely, however, 318 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: it is the universal human condition. It's true for all 319 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: of us, and it was true for him, and I 320 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: still think I know that one of the things that 321 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: was very important to him on the program was that 322 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: he always be the adult, the adult who can play 323 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: with children, and I mean, he acknowledged all of our 324 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,239 Speaker 1: inner children in his own but he also understood that 325 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: there comes a time in life when we also have 326 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: to be the adult. And I think that was one 327 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: of the fine points of his work. We're the grown 328 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: ups doing what we can. Doing enough doesn't mean fixing 329 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: a tragedy as massive as nine eleven, but it does 330 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: mean helping every one of us has something essential inside 331 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: of us that we can use to help. For Fred, 332 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: that meant sitting at the bedside of a comatose kid, 333 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: or staying on the air for thirty years, helping children 334 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: grow into adults who could help other people. What does 335 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: it mean for you? I think he drove himself very hard, 336 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: and I think his expectations of himself were extraordinary, So 337 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: I would guess that he never thought he did enough. 338 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: Because here's the thing. There is no enough, There is 339 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: no finish line. The problems were faced with are so big, 340 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: so many, that no one of us can address them alone. 341 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: It's not easy to keep trying, but it's one good 342 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: way to grow. It's not easy to keep learning, but 343 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: I know that this is so. When you've tried and learned, 344 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: you're bigger inside than you were a day ago. It's 345 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: not easy to keep trying, but it's one way to grow. 346 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: You've got to you see every little bit, You've got 347 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: to do it, do it, do it, do it, and 348 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: when you're through, you can know who did it for you. 349 00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: Did it. You did it. You did it, And when 350 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: you've done something that you wanted to do and you've 351 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: done it well, you can get such a good feeling 352 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: from that next time. I think it was the first 353 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: time in my life where I felt seen by an adult, 354 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: like when he got down to my eye level, introduced 355 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: himself and looked me in the eye. Of course, I've 356 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: had adults introduced themselves to me a million times up 357 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: into that point and asked me what my name was, 358 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: But the way that he looked at me, I felt 359 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: like you saw me. Finding Fred is produced by Transmitter Media. 360 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: The team is Dan O'donald, Jordan Bailey, and Maddie Foley. 361 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 1: Our editor is Sarah Nicks. The executive producer for Transmitter 362 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: Media is Greta Cohne. Executive producers at Fatherly are Simon 363 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: Isaacs and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team of a 364 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: I Heart Media, Fred Rogers interviewed tape courtesy of the 365 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,159 Speaker 1: Television Academy Foundation Interviews. The full interview is available at 366 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: Television Academy dot com slash Interviews. Our show is mixed 367 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: by Rick Kwan, music by Blue Dot Sessions and Alison 368 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: Layton Brown. If you like what you're hearing, rate the show, 369 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: review the show and tell a friend I'm Carvell Wallace. 370 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.