1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. I am 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: so excited about the upcoming season of There No Girls 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: on the Internet, and season five is launched on May thirteenth. 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I wanted to share an episode 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: from our friends over at the podcast ted Tech, hosted 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: by Cherrell Dorsey. So we've chosen a pair of episodes 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: from ted Tech and There Are No Girls on the 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: Internet that address the same topic from two totally different angles, 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: the use of tech to preserve the memory of someone 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: who is no longer with us. Back in March of 13 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, we published it There Are No Girls 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: on the Internet episode where I talked to spirituality writer 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: Brooke Obi about a hologram of the late Whitney Houston 16 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: doing a residency in Las Vegas. Too long didn't read. 17 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: We thought it was creepy af It felt like this crass, 18 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: capitalistic digital necromancy. If you listen to it back then, 19 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: I invite you to listen to it after this. But 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: in the ted Tech episode that you're about to hear 21 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: you'll hear a totally different perspective. Cartoonist Amy Kurzweil talks 22 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: about her own experience helping her father train an AI 23 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: chatbot to embody a lost relative and unveil a family history. 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: She never knew the fact that these two episodes are 25 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: about such similar topics but land in completely different places. 26 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: I find pretty interesting and I think it highlights the 27 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: complicated ways that AI is already changing our world. I 28 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed as much as I did, and if 29 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: you do, I invite you to check out other Ted 30 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: Tech episodes, And of course thanks for listening to their 31 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. And I hope you're as 32 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: excited as I am about the launch of season five 33 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: coming up on May thirteenth. 34 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: Art and technology are constantly interacting with each other, pushing 35 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: the boundaries of social expression and human representation. Consider the 36 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: use of digital archives and how that tech has evolved 37 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: our understanding of identity and legacy, or the rise of 38 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: AI as an artistic assistant limited only by our imagination. 39 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 2: By blending artistic expression with advanced technology, we can begin 40 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: to appreciate the vastness of the human experience in ways 41 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: previously unimaginable. These innovations invite us to rethink how we preserve, interpret, 42 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 2: and celebrate who we are, both in the present and 43 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: for future generations. This is TED Tech, a podcast from 44 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: the TED Audio collective. I'm your host Cherrell Dorsey. Our 45 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: speaker today is Amy Carsweil, an American cartoonist and writer. 46 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 2: Amy's recent work with AI and animated portraits exemplifies how 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: this tech has the potential to capture not just our likeness, 48 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 2: but our essence, immortalizing moments of humanity in new and 49 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 2: dynamic ways. But before we dive in a quick break 50 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: to hear from our sponsors, and now Amy Kurzweil takes 51 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: the TED stage. 52 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: I love being a cartoonist because I can travel anywhere. 53 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 3: I can visit historical artifacts and make improvements. I can 54 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 3: voyage to mysical lands and solve problems. I can bring 55 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 3: objects to life, and I can make those objects think 56 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 3: and talk, and I can send those objects wherever I 57 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: want them to go. I became a cartoonist to travel 58 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 3: through space and time, and I became a graphic memoirist 59 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 3: because the place I wanted to go was the past. 60 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 3: I come from a legacy of dramatic stories and lost characters. 61 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: My grandmother, Lily on my mother's side, was born in Warsa, Poland, 62 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 3: the oldest of four sisters. She was thirteen in nineteen 63 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 3: thirty nine when Nazi bombs raised her home and her 64 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 3: family was sealed to starve inside the Warsaghetto. Eventually, her 65 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: father encouraged her to slip through a hole in the wall, 66 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 3: and she survived the Holocaust on her own, hiding her 67 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 3: Jewish identity. This is the subject of my first book. 68 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 3: I wondered, what did my grandmother's lost home and lost 69 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 3: family look like. Her parents, her grandmother, and her sisters. 70 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 3: They are all gone without a trace. My father's parents 71 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 3: were luckier. They were also Jewish, and they both fled 72 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 3: Austria at the start of the war. My father's father, Fred, 73 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 3: was a pianist and conductor. In nineteen thirty seven, the 74 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 3: year before the Nazis marched into Austria, he was twenty 75 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: six and he conducted a magnificent choral concert at a 76 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 3: music hall in Vienna. A wealthy the American woman in 77 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 3: the audience was so impressed with his performance that she 78 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 3: later agreed to sponsor his visa to the US. So 79 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:15,799 Speaker 3: music saved his life. But three decades later Fred died 80 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 3: of heart disease. 81 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: I never met him. 82 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 3: While alive, Fred meticulously preserved the documents of his life 83 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 3: a response to the threat of a rasure he fled 84 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 3: in Europe, and for decades after his father's death, my 85 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 3: father continued this preservation project. This is a subject of 86 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 3: my second book. You might know my father, ray Erzweil, 87 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: as an inventor and futurist. You should also know that 88 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 3: he's a person with an extraordinary sense of humor, and 89 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 3: although he's dedicated his mind to the future, his life 90 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 3: is full of the past. My father has worked for 91 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 3: decades on natural language processing, and several years ago you 92 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 3: realize that if we married AI with my grandfather's writing, 93 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 3: we could build a chatbot that writes in my grandfather's voice. 94 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 3: Back in twenty eighteen, this seemed very sci fi, But 95 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 3: rather than ushering in our demise, this project helped me 96 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 3: realize that AI could actually help us word off annihilation 97 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 3: by animating the legacies of our families and our cultures. 98 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 3: I wanted to talk to my grandfather because he, like me, 99 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 3: was an artist. I wondered could I get to know him. 100 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 3: Could I even come to love him, even though our 101 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: lifespans didn't overlap. So I got involved. This chatbot needed 102 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 3: language from my grandfather as much as could be found, 103 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 3: so I, with some assistants, said about finding his words 104 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: and transcribing them. This was a selective chatbot, meaning it 105 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: responded to questions with answers from the pool of sentences 106 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 3: that Fred actually wrote at some point in his life. 107 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 3: The more examples of Fred's writing we could find, the 108 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 3: more dynamic the experience of chatting the bot would feel. 109 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 3: Sometimes this transcription task proved challenging, but the more time 110 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: I spent with the symbols of my grandfather's life, the 111 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: more easily I could decode them. Finally, after much anticipation, 112 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 3: I sat down to chat with this new intelligence, an 113 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 3: algorithm commanding over six hundred typed pages of letters, lectures, notes, essays, 114 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 3: and other written documents from the grandfather I never met. 115 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 3: When I asked about Fred's dreams, he told me about 116 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 3: the challenge of keeping his new orchestra afloat. When I 117 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 3: asked about Fred's anxieties, I learned about the stress of 118 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 3: being a new father while working so hard. When I 119 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 3: asked about the meaning of life. Fred wrote about the 120 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 3: joy of working with other musicians in pursuit of beauty, 121 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 3: and he wrote about the highest aims of art. I 122 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 3: asked again about the meaning of life, because isn't that 123 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: really the best question for a robot? And Fred's second 124 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 3: answer was much simpler, but even better. Some of these 125 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 3: answers felt familiar to me. I remembered seeing them in 126 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 3: the archive, but the words gained impact through surprise and 127 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 3: the role play of conversation. I could identify patterns in 128 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 3: my grandfather's life and patterns across generations because I was 129 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: also an artist trying to make it in New York City, 130 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: and I also believed the meaning of life is art 131 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: and connection and love. I had wondered if this project 132 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: would feel like a resurrection, but rather than bringing my 133 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 3: grandfather from the past into the present, it felt like 134 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 3: I was the one time to visiting him for a 135 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 3: moment at different points in his life. And this kind 136 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 3: of time travel didn't feel like sci fi. It felt 137 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 3: like the kind of imaginative travel I do when I'm cartooning. 138 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 3: When I'm cartooning, I'm always thinking about how I could 139 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 3: possibly represent a person fully, and the answer is I can't. Similarly, 140 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 3: I know how many aspects of my grandfather can't be 141 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 3: captured by digital text alone. 142 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: There's all those. 143 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: Quivers in his handwriting and what they denote about the 144 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 3: sensations in his body. There's his body, how it moved 145 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 3: and how it felt. There's his music and all the 146 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 3: ineffable aspects of his performance. And of course there's everything 147 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 3: he thought but didn't write down. What would we have 148 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 3: to do to be able to capture all of this? 149 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 3: I may fail as an artist to fully represent a 150 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 3: person's constantly evolving complexity, but I can ask what features 151 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 3: of a person are essential to who they are across 152 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: the lifetime. The puzzle of personal identity is one of 153 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 3: our oldest philosophical questions. So I'm not here to solve 154 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 3: that one for you. I'm just a cartoonist, after all. 155 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: I do believe that we are more than our bodies, 156 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: that the projects and impressions we leave behind are a 157 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: part of our essential selves. And I think AI has 158 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 3: a special role to play in the mission of memory. 159 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 3: I did not come to see the chatbot of my 160 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 3: grandfather as replacing my grandfather. I came to see it 161 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 3: as one way to interact with his legacy. As somebody 162 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: who has spent their whole life trying to document people, 163 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 3: I can assure you that people are much bigger and 164 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 3: weirder than anyone depiction or anyone moment in time can 165 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: possibly evoke. And I can also assure you that people 166 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: don't just disappear when they die. AI swirls our conception 167 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 3: of time and space. It can remix and extend our identities. 168 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 3: Our own digital archives are growing beyond belief, and we 169 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 3: need a framework for understanding technologies of representation. So I 170 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: offer you mine. Just like the comics I've drawn about 171 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 3: the characters in my life, these technologies are animated portraits. 172 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 3: They are one part of our true, immortal selves seen 173 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 3: this way. AI, like cartooning and all good artistic endeavors, 174 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 3: could help us appreciate the vastness of humanity if we 175 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 3: let it. 176 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: Thank you. 177 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: That was Amy Karsweil at TED twenty twenty four, and 178 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 2: that's it for today. TED Tech is part of the 179 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: TED Audio collective. This episode was produced by Nita Bird Lawrence, 180 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: edited by Elejandra Sola's Are in fact Check by Julia Dickerson. 181 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Maria Lautius Fera de Grange, Daniello Bellarrezo 182 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: and Roxanne Hilsch. I'm Charrelle Dorsey. 183 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening in