1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and. 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 2: Welcome back to our Labor Day night program, George NOORI 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 2: with you, Jeff Bland, You're back with us. Author, podcaster, 5 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: great storyteller, adventurer and explorer of the unexplained. He's written 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: more than a dozen books that have been published in 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: six languages, and as an Emmy nominated host, writer and producer. Jeffery, 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 2: you hit a home run with Wicked Strange. Welcome back, Thanks, George, 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 2: so good to be back with you. How did you 10 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 2: get the idea to write this one about New England? 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 3: Well, that's New England's home. And you know, long ago 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 3: when I started researching the paranormal ghosts and haunted places, 13 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 3: I think I fell into the trap of thinking all 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 3: the cool places are far away from me. And then 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 3: you realize wherever you live is far away from most 16 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 3: of the world. And so I started to kind of 17 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 3: look at my own backyard and just started uncovering so 18 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 3: many great stories. And when you're local, you know you 19 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 3: can just get in deeper because these are your name. 20 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: And so it started with a TV show on PBS 21 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: called New England Legends that turned into a podcast of 22 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 3: the same name, and what's great is, over time, George, 23 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 3: a whole community sort of evolved of people emailing me saying, Hey, 24 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 3: in my town, we've got this strange story, and what 25 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 3: about this strange story? And I've now collected hundreds and 26 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 3: hundreds of them, and from there it was just sort 27 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: of natural to put together a very weird book. 28 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 2: The photography in the book absolutely stunning. 29 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's Frank Grace. He is amazing. So Frank and 30 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 3: I started doing a Haunted New England calendar, an annual calendar, 31 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: thirteen years ago and we've done one thirteen years in 32 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 3: a row. And he tells a whole story with a 33 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 3: photograph and I'm so in awe of what he can do. 34 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 3: And when we first met, he said, oh, I love 35 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 3: your stories, and I said I love your photography, and 36 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 3: a relationship was born. So the calendar has now turned 37 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 3: into the book and it was just such a pleasure 38 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 3: to work on. 39 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: New eng One consists of Connecticut, Massachusett, It's New Hampshire, 40 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 2: Rhode Island, Vermont, Maine, a number of states. 41 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 3: Right, yep, all Sex, that's it. 42 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: Where were the Witches Salem? Right? 43 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: No? 44 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 3: Well, yes, of course, everyone knows Salem, believe it or not. 45 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 3: Though Connecticut had witch trials decades before Salem. They had 46 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 3: executed a dozen people over time from various towns. Unlike Salem, 47 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 3: where it was sort of a craze all at once 48 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: over the span of a few months, Connecticut, it was 49 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 3: happening in pockets and they sort of hit it better. 50 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 3: But there's witches in pretty much all the New England states. 51 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 3: We just know the most about Salem because it got 52 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 3: so much attention, But the stories are similar, you know, 53 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 3: where you've got people that were sort of outliers in 54 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 3: the community that were persecuted, and it really was more 55 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 3: about a power grab and a land grab as opposed 56 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 3: to fighting someone with magical powers. 57 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: Jeff Well andrew with us. His website is his name. 58 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: We're talking about his latest book called Wicked Strange, which 59 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: is available now. Jeff, isn't it George? 60 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 3: The book came out twelve minutes. 61 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: Ago and Tim did it perfectly. 62 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is it, so thank you, thank you for 63 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 3: letting me launch it here. 64 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: The evolution of the book was based on the TV 65 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: show right. 66 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, as you know, when TV shows are very 67 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 3: expensive to make and they take a lot of time 68 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 3: and between permits and everything else. And so when we 69 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 3: were working for PBS, we funded it ourselves, myself and 70 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 3: my producer partner, Tony Dunn. We were paying for it ourselves. 71 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: PBS really doesn't pay us anything. They would just air it. 72 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: And I said, man, I wish we could do more 73 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: of these stories, you know, without with all the time 74 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 3: and expense. And so that's how the podcast was born 75 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 3: and that became a weekly thing called the New England 76 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 3: Legends Podcast, and that's when the things that's when things 77 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 3: really took off because at that point you can just 78 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: be a lot more prolific. And the podcast it's short, 79 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 3: you know, they're like ten to fifteen minutes scripted stories. 80 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 3: And what I what I want to know is how 81 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 3: did we get here? Why do we talk about this 82 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 3: building being haunted? Why do we talk about those woods 83 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: having a strange creature or this spot being a hot 84 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: spot for UFOs? And to answer that, you have to 85 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 3: go back in time. You just you have to start 86 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 3: looking backwards what was here before today and before that 87 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: and before that, and you can start to piece together 88 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: a picture that's really that really paints a whole portrait 89 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 3: of your community of where you live, and you realize 90 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: we're all a byproduct of where we live. We're a 91 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: byproduct of everything that happened before us, and these these 92 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: strange events, these unexplained events, are kind of like the 93 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 3: crutons in the salad. 94 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: Jeffrey, how many of these stories came from your work 95 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 2: as opposed to people who wrote. 96 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 3: You oh goodness, well zero, It was all people who 97 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: who I mean, I researched it, but someone would say like, hey, 98 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: did you hear about this weird grave in Bridgeport, Connecticut? 99 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 3: And then I would go and look into it. So 100 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 3: I looked into all of them. But you know, of course, 101 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 3: growing up where I have, I mean, I was born 102 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 3: in Massachusetts. I grew up in Sandy Hook, Connecticut, and 103 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 3: you know, we had our legends that we heard about, 104 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: and that's where I started with the ones I heard 105 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 3: about since the time I was a kid. But from 106 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: there it just grows and grows, and as you know, 107 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 3: once you start going down the rabbit hole, there's no stopping. 108 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 2: What are some of your favorite stories in the book? 109 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 2: Wicked Strange? 110 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: So? 111 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 3: I was raised Catholic in the interest of full disclosure, 112 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 3: and went to church every week and the whole thing, 113 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: and then sort of got away from it around, you know, 114 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 3: after becoming an adult. And you know, my mom would 115 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 3: get upset by that, and I'd joke, you know, Mom, 116 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 3: I don't want to go to church because I'm afraid 117 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: lightning would strike and I don't want anyone innocent to 118 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 3: get hurt. And that was a joke, and she didn't 119 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: find it very funny. Anyway. There's this cemetery in Bridgeport, Connecticut, 120 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:54,239 Speaker 3: and there's a there's an old grave from seventeen seventy one, 121 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 3: and the epitaph reads, and I quote, here lies buried 122 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 3: the body of mister David Sherman, who was killed lightning 123 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 3: in the House of God at public worship on the 124 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 3: twenty eighth of July seventeen seventy one and the thirty 125 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 3: fifth year of his age. And I read that and 126 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: I went, are you kidding? He was killed by lightning 127 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 3: in church? And then I started to dig into it, 128 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 3: and it turns out two people were killed that day, 129 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: and another man had his shoe torn off by the 130 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 3: lightning strike. And I've discovered the secret to immortality. George, 131 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 3: you need to have a really crazy, memorable funny epitaph 132 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 3: on your headstone, and we will be talking about you 133 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 3: for centuries. 134 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: I'll pass. 135 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: Fair enough. 136 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: That is unbelievable. 137 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, right there and there it is, right 138 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 3: there in stone, killed by lightning in the House of God. 139 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: Right through the church, right through the church. 140 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 3: It turns out the church had yet to put up 141 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 3: a lightning rod, and two people paid with their lives 142 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 3: and one guy lost a shoe. 143 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 2: Come, I've being in the wrong place at the wrong time. 144 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much, that's how it goes. 145 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: You know. 146 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: I always think that the outliers, right, that's that's where 147 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 3: we that's where we earn our living, you know, we 148 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 3: earn our living, and not the middle but the very 149 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 3: fringes of what happens, the kind of stuff that sometimes 150 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 3: defies explanation but also begs a lot of questions. And 151 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 3: that's what I love about this stuff. I love the 152 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 3: fringy stuff that makes us say, like, well, maybe there's 153 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: something more to it. And I think usually there is. 154 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: How many stories Jeff did that make the book? 155 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 3: So there's seventeen from each of the six states, so 156 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: one hundred and two to be exact. 157 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: That made the book. 158 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: That made the book. 159 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: Oh and the. 160 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: Podcast, how many did did not make it? 161 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 3: So in our podcast we've already covered four hundred and twelve. Wow, 162 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 3: so and growing so. And then you know, there's the 163 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 3: stories you gather here and there. I do one every 164 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: week now, and it's it's at one point I was 165 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: worried I was going to run out, But I'm not 166 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 3: worried anymore, as this thing just sort of grows on itself. 167 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 3: And you know, I like everything weird, not just ghosts 168 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 3: and hauntings, but UFO sites, roadside oddities, when someone just 169 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: decides to put something up because they just want to 170 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 3: leave a mark somewhere. These kind of things just I 171 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: think make a community all the more interesting. 172 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: At what point did you turn Frank Grace loose to 173 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: take pictures so? 174 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 3: Well? It started back when we met. Frank and I 175 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 3: met at the haunted Lizzie Borden House in Fall River, Massachusetts, 176 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 3: and I had seen his work online. I knew he 177 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 3: was going to be there and I hadn't met him yet, 178 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: and I walked up and I just said, oh my gosh, 179 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 3: you're Frank Grace. It's so great to meet you. And 180 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: he was literally like hunched over taking a picture inside 181 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 3: the house. At the time, and I said, I just 182 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 3: think you're so talented. And he pointed to the shutter 183 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 3: button on his camera and he said, I just pushed 184 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: this button. The camera really does most of the work. 185 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 3: And at that point I figured we were probably going 186 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 3: to be friends. And then we started talking about the 187 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 3: calendar and that's what started it. And now we've gone 188 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 3: on road trips together all over and he's always up 189 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 3: for a ghost hunt or whatever's going on. He brings 190 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 3: his camera. He tells his stories that way, and I 191 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 3: do it with words. 192 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 2: Did Lizzie Borden get acquitted? 193 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 3: She did. The all male jury said there's no way 194 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: a woman could have committed a crime like that. And 195 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 3: that's one of those stories that I mean, think about 196 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 3: how weird. There's a nursery rhyme here in Massachusetts. You know, 197 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: the children sing it, Lizzie Borden took an axe and 198 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: gave her mother forty wax, and when she saw what 199 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 3: she had done, she gave her father forty one. They 200 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 3: would sing that during her trial, the little kids outside 201 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 3: dancing in a circle when you run out of ring 202 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 3: around the rosie we have. We can be just as 203 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 3: macabre with Lizzie's trial that was You have to remember 204 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: that was eighteen ninety two, which was not the Dark Ages. 205 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 3: That was fairly modern times, and it was well covered 206 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 3: by the papers and such a head scratcher. I've been 207 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 3: in that house so many times now when you stand 208 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 3: at the crime scene and you realize there was no 209 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: sign of forced entry, nothing was stolen, nothing was disturbed, 210 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 3: and literally the victims were killed, you know, without a struggle. 211 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 3: I mean, you don't have to be a CSI expert 212 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 3: to know they knew whoever killed them, that they knew 213 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 3: them like that, they knew their killer. And Lizzie was 214 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 3: really the most obvious, but it's also possible she might 215 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 3: have had some help. This case still haunts us because 216 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 3: two people were murdered and no one was ever punished 217 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: for that, and that's something that shakes us up. We 218 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 3: don't like it. 219 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: What did Lizzie contend happen to them? 220 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 3: She says, in the span of about fifteen minutes, she 221 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 3: went out back to pick some pears from their tree 222 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 3: and then go into their barn and get some weights 223 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 3: for a fishing trip she had coming up, and in 224 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: that time, someone mysteriously slipped into their house, murdered her 225 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 3: father Andrew while he was napping on the sofa in 226 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 3: the sitting room, and then what's that for no reason? Right, yeah, 227 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 3: and then went up with an axe violently over and over, 228 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 3: and then went upstairs and killed her stepmother right on 229 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 3: the floor. She was making the bed in the one 230 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 3: of their bedrooms, and so she came in, said she 231 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 3: found them, and then called for help. So in that 232 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 3: fifteen minute period, someone just did that brutally and left. 233 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 3: That's what that was her alibi. I was out back 234 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 3: getting pairs and fishing in some fishing weights. 235 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: Jeff, what do we know about Lizzie Board Who was she? 236 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 3: Well, we know she never married. There's a lot of 237 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 3: speculation about her sexuality that maybe you know, that was 238 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 3: a time where you you couldn't really be out if 239 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 3: you were, you know. And so she she was acquitted. 240 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: She became sort of famous, well she was famous, but 241 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 3: also infamous, as these sort of characters go. She mingled 242 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 3: in a lot of different circles, and then she and 243 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 3: her sister eventually bought a much larger house about a 244 00:11:54,280 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 3: mile away from their former home in Fall River, and 245 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 3: and she pretty much spent the rest of her days 246 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 3: in infamy. 247 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: I had a guest on last week who goes to 248 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: cemeteries for for lot. You've got a number of cemetery stories, 249 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 2: don't you. 250 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. I call it a cemetery safari when 251 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 3: we go to some of these various boneyards, because like 252 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 3: I said, there's there's First of all, every grave has 253 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 3: a story to tell. I think some some really command attention. 254 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 3: There's there's this one cemetery in a little town called 255 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 3: New Haven, Vermont, not to be confused with the one 256 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 3: in Connecticut. And in Evergreen Cemetery, there's this this mound 257 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 3: and it's a it's a pretty little cemetery, well taken 258 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: care of, but this one mound sticks out and there's 259 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: no marker on it except at the top there's a 260 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 3: square and when you look down, there's a window. And 261 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 3: the window looks down six feet to the h to 262 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 3: the crypt of doctor Timothy Clark Smith, who had a 263 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 3: horrible case of tafaphobia and tapaphobia is the fear of 264 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 3: being buried alive. And the extent that he went to 265 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 3: to make sure he would not be buried alive was 266 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 3: just epic. Not just the grave with the window, but 267 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: He had a casket with a glass glass top on it, 268 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 3: and he wanted a hammer and a chisel placed in 269 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 3: his hands should he wake up in that casket, need 270 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 3: to chisel his way out. And then, of course he 271 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 3: designed the grave with a window, which became a tourist attraction, 272 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 3: attracting sometimes twelve and fourteen people a year to this 273 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 3: little cemetery in the middle of Vermont. 274 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: You heard the story of the guy who too, had 275 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: an obsession with being buried alive, convinced that if he died, 276 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: he really wasn't dead, and that he'd wake up in 277 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 2: his casket panicking. So he told his family, when I die, 278 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: put a cell phone in the coffin with me so 279 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: I can call for help. And they went, Dad, that's 280 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: a waste, He said, please insist. So one day he died, 281 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: They put him in a coffin, put the cell phone 282 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: in there. The family argued about it, but they did. 283 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 2: They buried him. Well, he wakes up, Jeff in the coffin, panicking, 284 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 2: reaches around, feels the cell phone, turns it on. It 285 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: says no service. 286 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 3: That's a joke, of course, how would you know, How 287 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 3: would you know? Use that would tell the tale I 288 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 3: love it. Yeah, I know, we all have strange, strange 289 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: fears of But you know, also Timothy Clark Smith was 290 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 3: a medical doctor, and this was about the time when 291 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 3: embalming started to get to be all the rage. So 292 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 3: there was a whole slew of patented devices to keep 293 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: you from being buried alive, like a rope that would 294 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 3: be attached to your hand that would lift a flag 295 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 3: if you pulled it from underground, or a bell where 296 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 3: you could ring the bell to call for help if 297 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 3: you were buried alive. But once embalming became all the fashion, 298 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 3: even regular folks like us started to figure out like, well, 299 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 3: if you've replaced all my blood with, you know, a 300 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 3: cocktail of chemicals. If I wasn't dead before, I probably am. 301 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 2: Now what would you say? Is one of the most 302 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: bizarre stories in the book. 303 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 3: Okay, so there is an Egyptian prince buried in Vermont. 304 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 3: This prince happened. Yeah, that's that's a that's a great story. 305 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: Right. 306 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 3: So, so the Egyptian prince died in the year eighteen 307 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 3: eighty six BC and his name was amanhir Kpaeschev. And 308 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 3: what happened is in the late eighteen hundreds. The world 309 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 3: had Egypt fever. As these the pyramids were being unearthed, 310 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: and they were unearthing crips, and everybody wanted a mummy. 311 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: Mummies were starting to be pulled from the ground and 312 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 3: sent all all over the world. Young emon her Kopachev 313 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 3: was just two years old, and his little carcass was 314 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 3: removed from Egypt and it was put on a boat 315 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 3: and it was sent eventually over to New York, where 316 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 3: then it made its way up to Middlebury, Vermont, to 317 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 3: a guy named Henry Sheldon who had a Vermont history museum. 318 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 3: He wanted a mummy. The thing is, when they were 319 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 3: buried in Egypt, the air is so arid, the ground 320 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 3: is dry. It preserves the mummies. But as soon as 321 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: they leave that environment and they get into the moist 322 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: air of like an ocean going vessel and so on, 323 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 3: you know, decomposition picks up right where it left off. 324 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 3: And so by the time it got to Middlebury, Vermont, 325 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 3: it was sort of a mess, and Henry Sheldon put 326 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 3: it in the attic and everybody forgot about it for years, 327 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 3: and then he died, and so it was decades later 328 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 3: when the museum curator, George Meade discovered this in the attic, 329 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 3: and it didn't sit right with him. He said, this 330 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 3: is a human being. This is not just some artifact 331 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 3: or something to gauk at. This was a human being. 332 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: And so he gave up some of his family plot 333 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 3: space and they agreed, and they buried the remains of 334 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 3: this Egyptian mummy with a headstone with with you know, 335 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 3: some hieroglyphs on it and everything. And so you've got 336 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: this ancient Egyptian mummy buried in this sea of cemetery 337 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 3: right in the middle of Vermont. 338 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: How many stories do you have in there? 339 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: Are one hundred and two? 340 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 2: Fantastic love Yeah, oh. 341 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: Gosh, you know, yes, and for so many different reasons. 342 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: Like I said, this is this is the weird stuff. 343 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 3: We're living in a time when our towns get to 344 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 3: look a lot alike, you know, the box stores and 345 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 3: the chain restaurants and the strip malls and so on. 346 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 3: But these legends are what still make our communities unique, 347 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 3: and we only share them with people we trust. You know, 348 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 3: if someone comes to your town and says, oh, you know, 349 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: what's weird around here, you might look at them a 350 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 3: little slant, you know, just cock eyed and say, yeah, 351 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 3: I'm not talking about that, but if someone you know 352 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: approaches and you connect in some way, maybe you would 353 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 3: share it because these are the things that we know. 354 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: Some people laugh at us for talking about a haunted 355 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 3: building or a cursed grave or something like that, but 356 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 3: we also know there's something to it, and there's something 357 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 3: to it because these stories endure, they stick around, and 358 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 3: no matter what logic may tell you, we still talk 359 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 3: about it. I think because someone's still experiencing something. 360 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: Listen to more at Coast to Coast AM every weeknight 361 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: at one am Eastern, and go to Coast to coastam 362 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: dot com for more