1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: From Futuro Media. It's Latino USA. I'm Maria Josa today 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: the Spell of Ima Sumac. For today's episode, we bring 3 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: you a segment we call the Breakdown, and I'm gonna 4 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: hand this one off to our producers, Antonia Sehidro and 5 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: Genni Montalbo. 6 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: Antonia, do you know whose voice this is? 7 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 3: No? 8 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 4: Okay? 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: I kind of half expected you to say, yeah, so 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: actually that woman is Ima Sumac. 11 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 5: Well, I do know who Ima Sumac is, but you 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 5: can't just play with my three notes. And I'm like 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 5: some sort of like amazing savant. That's like, ah, yes, 14 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 5: the three notes of Ima Sumac. 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: How did I forget that? You weren't a musical genius? 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 5: True, she was really popular in the fifties, right, Yeah. 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: Ima Sumac was known as the Queen of Exatica and 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: an Inga princess, and like you said, she was a 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: big deal in the nineteen fifties, but actually her career 20 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: lasted decades. 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 6: When I went to go listen to her, I was like, 22 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 6: oh my gosh, I never in a million years would 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 6: ever be lising all those notes that she sang. 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: This is gabriellare Yes, a Nicaraguan American soprano at the 25 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: Metropolitan Opera. Ema could sing a four octave almost five 26 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 2: octave range, which is why it's hard to classify her 27 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: into any of the traditional singing classifications. An average soprano 28 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: can sing maybe three octaves. 29 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 6: Well, was really I think eye catching for me? When 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 6: or ear catching, I should say it is when I 31 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 6: heard her like the range that she has. She sings 32 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 6: bass notes notes that the lowest category of male voice. 33 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 6: She sang those notes. 34 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: That's a voice that sounds like a that's. 35 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 6: Wild, as well as way beyond the highest category of voice. 36 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 3: That's insane. 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 7: Yeah, she presented something very unusual. 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: This is Nick Lemansky. He wrote a book on Ima 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: Sumac's life. 40 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 7: Because you have to understand that a lot of the 41 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 7: things that she did on record nobody had ever heard 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 7: anybody do before. 43 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 8: Then. 44 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 7: Variety they printed this big advertisement about Ema, saying that 45 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 7: she had sung in forty seven states of America, forty 46 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 7: cities in Russia twenty four cities. 47 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: People were drawn to her. She played in cities all 48 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: over the world, and at every airport she was received 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: like royalty. 50 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 7: So we're talking about a woman who was famous technically 51 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 7: back then. She was more famous, I think than somebody 52 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 7: like Beyonce. 53 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 5: Okay, I mean I refuse to believe that she was 54 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 5: more famous than Beyonce. 55 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: Well, you can decide for yourself in the end. But 56 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 2: she's the only Peruvian woman to have a star on 57 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: the Hollywood Walk of Fame. 58 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 3: I didn't know that. 59 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was in movies, but at the same time, 60 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: in her homeland, she was accused of exploiting her indigenous roots. 61 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 2: For decades, this inca princess would cast a spell with 62 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 2: her mystical voice. But the one place this Peruvian beauty 63 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: couldn't put a spell on was her place of birth, Peru. 64 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 9: Ever since this Latin beauty set foot on American soil, 65 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 9: Ima Sumac and her Golden Boys have been electrifying the airwaves. 66 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 10: Part of her lure, besides the extraordinary voice, was that 67 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 10: it came out of a beautiful, beautiful woman that has 68 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 10: everything to do with this. 69 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: This is Damon Divine. He was her personal assistant makeup 70 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 2: artist friend, and he was her care taker throughout the 71 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: last decade of her life. 72 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 10: She had upwards slanted green eyes, which I suppose she 73 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 10: would consider exotic, and the famous ema eyeliner would exaggerate 74 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 10: that the full mouth, the patent leather looking black hair, 75 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 10: the bone structure that with the voice was said to 76 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 10: have put a spell on people. 77 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 5: Okay, so she had these green eyes, yeah, and was 78 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 5: called exotic, but she. 79 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: Had a lot of European features. 80 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 10: I was just enchanted immediately. I think people thought, maybe 81 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 10: I made that up. But it's a real thing, and 82 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 10: I've seen it many many times since. 83 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: Me Ema was known for her lavish outfits, wearing amazing 84 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: jewels and extravagant gowns, and her indigenous style accessories and headdresses. 85 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 7: Our first guest for this evening miss Ema Sumac. 86 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: The height of her career was in the fifties and 87 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 2: into the early sixties. 88 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 11: You have one of the most exciting voices I've ever heard. 89 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: Thank you. 90 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 10: That is very good. 91 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 2: But she was popular for so much longer. Later on, 92 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: Damon says she struggled. 93 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 10: She had driven away lots of people in her social 94 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 10: circle and her professional circle, so she was, you know, 95 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 10: quite isolated in her own way. 96 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: While she rose to prominence across the globe, she was 97 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: dealing with all these challenges in her life, including this 98 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: backlash that she dealt with from Peru. But let's start 99 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: at the beginning. 100 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 11: My name English Spanish Soila, Augusta and pages and the 101 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 11: Ima Schuma is my name too, but in Peruvian name 102 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 11: in Peruvian language, which means a beautiful flower, a beautiful girl. 103 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 11: She said, you know, I was born in Peru two 104 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 11: thousand years ago, but I still young. 105 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 2: That's Ima Sumac in a French TV documentary in nineteen 106 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: ninety three when she says Peruvian language in Squetchua, an 107 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: indigenous language spoken in the Andes. 108 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 9: When I was a little girl, I lived up the numb. 109 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 4: Why are you usually a bird? 110 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 11: That is how white began see? 111 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 5: Is that something that she was born with? Could anybody 112 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 5: train to have that sort of like note range? 113 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 12: Like? 114 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 3: How did she even achieve that? 115 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: She was self taught. 116 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 9: I never had to teach in my life because the 117 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 9: way I sing, I think no one can teach me 118 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 9: the way I see. 119 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 2: That's Ema from an interview in nineteen eighty four. She 120 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 2: was born in Ichokan, which is part of the Cahamarka 121 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: region in the Andes, but she also grew up in 122 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: Lima and she's the baby of six children. 123 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 9: My parents were very strictly special. My mother. I told 124 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 9: my parents that I want to be a singer. Oh, 125 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 9: my mother was terrible, upset, very angry. No never never, 126 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 9: never know. 127 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 2: She adopts her stage name Inma Sumac because her parents 128 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 2: weren't too into the idea of her singing. 129 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 9: The only person who knows that I was singing was 130 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 9: my oldest sisters. So one day my family was in 131 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,559 Speaker 9: the living room listened to radio. Then I started saying, 132 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 9: you tell. My sister asks you she mommy mother? Do 133 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 9: you know who she my mother? She said, no, no, puss, 134 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 9: she beautiful, very nice. 135 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 4: Father. 136 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 9: Do you know who is she singing? 137 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: No? 138 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 9: Beauty, my sister. Did you know who is she? 139 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 4: Mama? 140 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 5: What? 141 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: She joins the Folkloric Music Group in nineteen forty two, 142 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: whose director Moises Vivanco later that year becomes her husband. 143 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: During the next four years, the group blows up all 144 00:07:52,840 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: over Latin America. At this moment in time, she's doing 145 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: strictly folkloric music, and that is what propels them to fame. 146 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: They played in both Mexico and Argentina, which are considered 147 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: the two meccas of the entertainment industry. If you were anyone, 148 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: you performed there, and so, having reached the top in 149 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: Latin America. Ema and her husband Moyses formed a trio 150 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: and decided to move from Peru to New York City 151 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: in nineteen forty six. The Inkataki Trio is composed of 152 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 2: Ima Sumac, Yola or Cholita Rivera plus Moises Vivanco, but 153 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: they're met with a lukewarm reception. New York City, at 154 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: the time was home to young folk singers like Woody 155 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: Guthrie and Pete Seeger. 156 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 10: From all of you good Workers, good news to you 157 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,239 Speaker 10: all tell of how the good Old Union. 158 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 2: Although North American roots or folk music was big in 159 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: the nineteen forties, that Inkataki Trio didn't fare as well 160 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: as they hoped with their Andean folk music. But as 161 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 2: the dawn of the fifties approached, another movement of music 162 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 2: emerges Boo called exotica. 163 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 5: So you mentioned at the top of the show that 164 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 5: Ema was the queen of Exotica. But what is exotica? 165 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: I am glad you asked that exotica was this genre 166 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: of music. Think mambo tiki, lounge rhythms, combining things from 167 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: like the South Pacific, the Afro Caribbean rhythms. I think 168 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: Nick Lemansky says it Best. In his book, he says 169 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: exotica becomes popular partially because the sounds inspired American fantasies 170 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: of quote, foreign lands and cultures, mysterious temple ruins and 171 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: forbidden rituals. 172 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 3: Forbidden rituals. 173 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 5: I mean it sounds fun but also very stereotypical. I'm 174 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 5: thinking like the Tiki Room in Disneyland, right, These like 175 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 5: cartoonish impression of what foreign countries are. 176 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 2: Like exactly, And a lot of the time the music 177 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: was this mash of sounds and rhythms of what people 178 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: thought the traditional music in those countries. Sounded like so 179 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: quick story, so you can grasp how far they would 180 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: take these ideas of exoticism, right. One of the biggest 181 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 2: names in pioneers of Exotica is Les Baxter, who actually 182 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: worked with Amusumac. Les Baxter writes the song that We're 183 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 2: Hearing Quiet Village in nineteen fifty one. Martin Denny, another 184 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 2: one of the exotica pioneers, re records the song a 185 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: few years later, and what's the primary difference? They added 186 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 2: animal sounds and did it do better. That version made 187 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 2: it to number four on the Billboard Hot one hundred 188 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: chart in nineteen fifty nine. 189 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 5: So without Animal Sounds it wasn't a hit, but with 190 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 5: Animal Sounds it was. 191 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh my gosh. 192 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: So the name Exotica actually comes from Martin Denny's album 193 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 2: Exotica that that track appeared on in nineteen fifty seven. 194 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 5: So I find this music very entertaining and super fun 195 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 5: to listen to, but I also feel very weird about it. 196 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 5: I mean, it draws on racist stereotypes of primarily indigenous 197 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 5: people from other countries. 198 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 2: I can absolutely understand that, and I agree, but I 199 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: think as a musician, if you take it out of 200 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: the context of the stereotypes and for its musical value, 201 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 2: the compositions and things are really beautifully done. And in 202 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: the fifties people ate up those kind of stereotypes. 203 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 7: Well, part of it was, I think the time the 204 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 7: time in America, America goes to war. 205 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 9: Men of the Army, Navy, and Marines reinforce the battle 206 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 9: from on six continents. 207 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 7: We're talking nineteen fifty. The Second World War had just 208 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 7: ended and Americans were looking for something to entertain them. 209 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 2: So Nick argues in his book that the deadliness of 210 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: World War Two made Americans desire escape. It also allowed 211 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: many people who had never traveled to travel all over 212 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 2: the world who were stationed in places like Hawaii or 213 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: the South Pacific came back home with different views of 214 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: the world. The nation was prosperous and air travel became 215 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: a thing. In nineteen fifty three, twenty two cities in 216 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: the United States and six Caribbean countries joined the system, so. 217 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 3: There was a tourism boom. 218 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 4: Right. 219 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, aircrafts were improved. You could fly farther and faster. 220 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 10: Which brings these magic islands as closed as your next 221 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 10: door neighbor. 222 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: And there were more televisions so you could bring images 223 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: of these foreign lands to every household. You mentioned Disneyland. 224 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 2: The first Disney park opens in nineteen fifty five. 225 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 7: It announces the opening of Disneyland, the place the people 226 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 7: and eyes around the world are focused on. 227 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 8: These one hundred and sixty acres. 228 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: Here people discovered all these new places and cultures, places like. 229 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 10: Peru high in the Peruvian Andes, there's an ancient city 230 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 10: called Machu Pichu. 231 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 5: Okay, But Machu Picchu was discovered where before that nineteen eleven? 232 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 2: Right, yes, But the first hotel wasn't built until the 233 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 2: nineteen forties, so. 234 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 7: That was still a mysterious thing, and that kind of 235 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 7: put Peru on the map. And then you have this 236 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 7: singer wh yeah, who comes from Peru, who sings like 237 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 7: nobody's ever heard, and you've got a good gimmick. 238 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 2: So the time period was primed for someone like Ema 239 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 2: Sumac to exist, and her unique voice in stage persona, 240 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: coupled with her exotic look leads to her big break 241 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 2: out of the folkloric trio. She gets noticed and signs 242 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: with Capitol Records in nineteen fifty. Here's Damon Devine again. 243 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 10: And I have the papers where they say handwritten mind 244 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 10: you with their letter head at Capitol Records. We're not 245 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 10: particularly interested in your husband or cousin because they came 246 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 10: here as a trio, they said, But we are interested 247 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 10: in Ema Sumac. Capitol Records had Frank Sinatra someone who 248 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 10: in them if Nat King Cole everybody. 249 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: Fun fact, Frank Sinatra opened for Ima Sumac in Japan 250 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 2: Voice of America. A star is born. This is also 251 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: the point where Capitol Records changes the spelling of her name. 252 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: The name Ema was originally spelled I M M A, 253 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: and Capitol Records changes it to Y M A because 254 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 2: why is considered more exotic and it works. 255 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 10: She was just huge after that first record. It was nuts. 256 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 10: So one hundred thousand copies in nineteen fifty with very 257 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 10: little promotion. 258 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 2: The album is called Voice of the Xtabay and is 259 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: released in September of nineteen fifty. By the end of 260 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: that year, the album was number one on Variety's bestseller list. 261 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: That album has never been out of print, which is 262 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 2: one of the few albums through history that can claim 263 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 2: that fact. 264 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 10: Dang. 265 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 2: The liner notes on this album are amazing. Listen to this. 266 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: Prepare for an exotic musical experience, a voyage in discovery 267 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: into a new land of sound. For you have never 268 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: in your life heard anyone sing like Ema Sumac. 269 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 3: I mean true statement at least about the singing. 270 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. But while Ema was getting rave reviews, her home 271 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 2: country was not seduced by her. 272 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 5: Song coming up the Inca Princess's complicated relationship with Peru, 273 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 5: she didn't mention it. 274 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 10: I guess that was her way of dealing with it. 275 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 10: It was not to mention Peru at all in those years. 276 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 5: Stay with us, Notchez, and we're back with producer Genie 277 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 5: Montalo HeLa. 278 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 3: Genie. 279 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 5: Okay, so we've been talking about Ema Sumac, who I've 280 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 5: learned now had really an unreal voice. She was famous 281 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 5: in the nineteen fifties, but she was so a very 282 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 5: complicated woman. She was known as the Inca Princess, the 283 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 5: Queen of Exotica. 284 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 2: When we left off, Ima Sumac had just released her 285 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: groundbreaking album Voice of the Xta Bay, which to this 286 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: day has never been out of print. On the liner 287 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: notes of the album, there's a review from a Brazilian newspaper. 288 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 2: It says, the problems of our modern world are forgotten 289 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: through the magnetism of this fabulous gift, which comes to 290 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 2: us directly descended from Atahualpa, last of the Inca Kings. 291 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 5: But was she actually the descendant of Inca Royalty. 292 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: Very early on, Ima Sumac claimed she was directly descended 293 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: from the last Inca King, Atahualpa. People tend to assume 294 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: that was a US marketing ploy, but she was using 295 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,719 Speaker 2: that before she ever set foot in New York City. 296 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 5: Okay, so still unclear if she is or is not 297 00:17:58,840 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 5: an actual princess. 298 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 2: So in nineteen fifty four, at the peak of Emu's fame, 299 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 2: she gets a big Hollywood break. She's given a role 300 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 2: in the Secret of the Incas with none other than 301 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 2: Charlton Heston, where she plays an Inca princess good guess 302 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: but no, a sort of Inca Hia priestess. 303 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 5: Your daughter's saying this song when she and the virgins 304 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 5: of the temple were claimed by the sun. 305 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 2: Some people say it inspired the Indiana Jones film Raiders 306 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 2: of the Lost Arc because it has this like American 307 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: tour guide and this foreign land searching for lost treasure. 308 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 5: I think it's so funny that all of these like 309 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 5: foreign films have that same like like they thought, like 310 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 5: all countries outside of the US their music they all. 311 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 2: Play pan flute. 312 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're all like yeah. 313 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 2: And really this one is no different. She's in the 314 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 2: Andes where they're searching for this lost gold to make 315 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 2: the Inca people great again. 316 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 9: Only then will the people think they're great again. 317 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 2: In the Senior Hearing, she's up in the mountains singing 318 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: to a mass of indigenous people who are just staring 319 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 2: at her and kind of swaying back and forth. Needless 320 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: to say, this didn't go over well with Peruvians the. 321 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 8: Way the local people, the Cusco people were portrayed as 322 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 8: brainless masses that worship mummies or worship princesses or objects, 323 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 8: and that's pretty much the purpose of their lives. They 324 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 8: just dance and see and be beautiful or cute for foreigners. 325 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 2: That's Soila Mendoza, a Peruvian anthropologist and a professor of 326 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 2: Native American studies that you see Davis. She wrote about 327 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 2: Ima Sumac and inca identity. Soila tells me that when 328 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: Ema went on tour through Peru, there were protests and 329 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 2: people threw tomatoes at her. 330 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 8: The one element that causes big uproar and protests was 331 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 8: the film. This has to do with stereotypes, and I 332 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 8: think in the world we deal with stereotypes all the time, 333 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 8: and they can be very damaging. 334 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 3: I was waiting for the shooter drop. 335 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 5: People saw her as exoticizing, right, as probably stereotyping her 336 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 5: own people. 337 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 8: Basically, Yeah, you know, local newspapers would criticize and recall 338 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 8: how she was portraying a Peru and a cousco that 339 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 8: didn't exist, and for her own profit, for her own benefit, 340 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 8: for her own fame, and. 341 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 2: The movie sets off a spiral of criticisms that don't 342 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 2: end for decades. Here's one comment from el Coomercy in 343 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,959 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine, which states that on her tour through 344 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: at Aquipa, people quote whistled and hooted rejection because with 345 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 2: her statements, this renegade Peruvian Ema Sumac had often made 346 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 2: her countryman look savage and primitive. She may be admired 347 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: for her art, but her unworthy attitude as a Peruvian 348 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 2: can never be forgiven quote. 349 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 5: I mean, I understand if you feel that your community 350 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 5: is being made a cartoon out of I understand why 351 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 5: there was such a strong response. 352 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: True. And there are two other things that she's critiqued for. One, 353 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 2: a year after the movie comes out, she becomes a 354 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 2: US citizen, which was seen as this betrayal to the 355 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: Peruvian public by giving up her nationality. And two people 356 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 2: saw her as abandoning her folkloric roots and music to 357 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 2: do exotica. They saw her as selling out. She was 358 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: incorporating a lot of fusions with the Andian melodies and rhythms, 359 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 2: but in folkloric circles that wasn't received well. 360 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 8: So I think what happened was that she was kind 361 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 8: of caught in between what her original public appreciated her 362 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 8: own art and what was expected for her persona to 363 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 8: be in a different context like the US. 364 00:21:52,880 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 2: Ah In Peru she was a folkloric musician. In the US, 365 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: she was an exotic a musician and portraying this image 366 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 2: of Peru that didn't exist. She couldn't please botho. One 367 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: of her biggest critiques comes from Jose Maria Guiras, a 368 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: Peruvian author who wrote a book Nuestra Musica popular isucine 369 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 2: Pretis published in nineteen seventy seven are Popular Music and 370 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 2: its Performers, in which he wrote, how can a woman 371 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 2: who can't even speak a single word of Quetchua, who 372 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: grew up in Lima, the capitol, and not in the 373 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: mountains sing traditional songs of the Andes. He says she 374 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 2: has no national pride, and he goes on to say 375 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 2: she's deformed the Andean music, making its most noble, intense, 376 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: a pleasing show for the common people. 377 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 5: Every time I hear critiques like this, I'm like, Wow, 378 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 5: people think that what's happening now on Twitter's and New Conversation, 379 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 5: But we've been having these conversations about authenticity for such 380 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 5: a long time. 381 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 2: Exactly, and you know, to say Imasumac was a saint 382 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: would be incorrect. She was also known to say that 383 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 2: the only reason people knew Peru was because of her 384 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 2: not cool And in the seventies she walked off a 385 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 2: TV show in Peru because she got into an argument 386 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: with the hosts. 387 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 5: Potentially cool, Yeah, But what was her response to all 388 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 5: of this criticism? 389 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 2: Mainly radio silence. She hardly went to Peru. She went 390 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 2: a few times when her family members were ill, but 391 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: not on any major tours. In fact, in my research, 392 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 2: I never came across her speaking publicly about this. At 393 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 2: the same time she was receiving all this criticism, a 394 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: lot was happening for her personally. 395 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 5: How do you feel without the charge? 396 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: But I just I think just the same year the 397 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 2: movie comes out, Ima and Moy says her husband get 398 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: into some trouble. Here's Nick Lamansky, who we'd heard from earlier. 399 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 7: When they came back from their European tour in nineteen 400 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 7: fifty four, she couldn't get back into the New York 401 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 7: Harbor because immigration said, you know, you can't come in. 402 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 7: And turns out the irs said they owed thousands and 403 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 7: thousands and thousands of dollars on all the recordings and 404 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 7: all the tours they had done since nineteen forty six 405 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 7: to nineteen fifty four. 406 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 2: When Capitol Records decided they wanted Ema as a solo act, 407 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 2: Moyses took a backseat managing producing in all of the finances. 408 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: It takes Ema like thirty years to pay this IRS 409 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: bill off. 410 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 7: When it comes to the paternity suit was like a 411 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 7: double slap in the face. 412 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 2: And in nineteen fifty five, EMA's personal secretary files a 413 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 2: paternity suit against moisas for her twin daughters. 414 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 3: Wait, what hold up? 415 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 7: I know? 416 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 2: And while a lot of IMA's personal information in general 417 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 2: is hard to find, that scandal was very public. She 418 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 2: took camera crews and confronted the secretary. 419 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 3: Wow, that is some like TMZ moves. I know pre TMZ. 420 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: There are other allegations of indiscretion, but really the public 421 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: scandal and paternity suit were too much. 422 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 7: I really do think that a lot of the problems 423 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 7: that she had had to do with the fact that 424 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 7: she naively or whatever. Let Moyss take care of everything. 425 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 6: They do. 426 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 2: Finally get divorced in nineteen fifty eight, and despite that, 427 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 2: she continues a work relationship for almost ten years with Moises. 428 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 2: After she fully separated professionally, she was left to manage 429 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 2: her career on her own. In an interview, she said. 430 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 9: You know, when you are in show business, this job 431 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 9: is hardy, very difficult because you have to be almost perfect. 432 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 9: In my case for instance, you know, the credit is 433 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 9: all over the world. They wrote about Imasoma so much. 434 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 9: She has this she has that I'm not perfect, you know, 435 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 9: so when I came to this stage, I had to 436 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 9: be exactly why they describe Imasoma. 437 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 10: You know, it's camist so much. 438 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 9: Then I have a very sacrifice life. 439 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 2: She became much more solitary and somewhat difficult to work with. 440 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: She was known to stop concerts if she didn't agree 441 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 2: with something. 442 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 11: I want to give a book music to the audience. 443 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 4: Are you talking. 444 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 7: To? 445 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 8: Imasuma was this very unique and amazing figure. I would say, 446 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 8: a very strong woman for her time. This is Soila Mendoza. Again, 447 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 8: she argues, along with other people I've interviewed, that Ima 448 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 8: got a lot of unfair criticism because of her gender. 449 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 8: There was the fact that she was a woman an 450 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 8: environment that was dominated by male figures, so they could 451 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 8: have been that too. The fact that she was so 452 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 8: harshly criticized. A lot of the voices that were in 453 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 8: the newspapers. A lot of the artists that were criticizing 454 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 8: her were men. 455 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 2: For example, the author who critiqued her so harshly for 456 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 2: not speaking any quechuas. In that same long criticism, he 457 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 2: tacks on a line at the end about her estranged 458 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 2: husband Moises, saying, thankfully as Vivanco is with her and 459 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 2: he can save the day, he who can really know 460 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 2: our true andie and music. 461 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 8: During her time being a woman and famous must have 462 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 8: been really, really hard. Again, in the US was slightly different. 463 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 8: I don't think a lot easier necessarily during that time, 464 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 8: but easier than Peru. And you know, we women in Podle, 465 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 8: even though things are changing, I had not always considered 466 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 8: as valued or worth it or smart. It's always only 467 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 8: because maybe you're a pretty face, maybe you make it. 468 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 2: By the time she started to work with Damon in 469 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: the late nineteen nineties, Peru wasn't something she spoke about. 470 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: Here's Damon divine again. 471 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 10: She never mentioned that. I found this out going through 472 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 10: her things that were left to me. It's the dressed 473 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 10: from Secret of the Incos. These were her good luck earrings, 474 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 10: these gold fish. 475 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,199 Speaker 2: Damon inherited emas a state newspaper. 476 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 10: Headlines, the things she said to them, the things they 477 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 10: said to her. She didn't mention it. I guess that 478 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 10: was her way of dealing with it, was not to 479 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 10: mention Peru at all. In those years. 480 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: The sixties gives birth to rock and roll, and space 481 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 2: travel replaces the allure of foreign. 482 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 5: Lands Allman on Sia. 483 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 2: People began to forget Ima Sumac, but Ima continued to 484 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: tour and had a comeback. She recorded a rock album, Miracles, 485 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: released in nineteen seventy two, which would be her last 486 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 2: studio album that still had the characteristic Ema vocalizations. Ima 487 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 2: Sumac gave her last concert in nineteen ninety seven at 488 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: the Montreal Jazz Festival. She developed a sort of cult 489 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: following in later years, became an icon for the lgbtqwter community, 490 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 2: and her m found its way into movies like The 491 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 2: Big Lebowski, Hello Dude, thanks for coming here, TV shows 492 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: like mad Men They used to think I'd find a 493 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 2: husband here, samples like The Black Eyed Peas and Robin's Dick, 494 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 2: and even this Kolua commercial, The. 495 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 10: Every Day Exotic Kalua. Each new generation catches on to her. 496 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 10: The goths and punks discovered her in the eighties when 497 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 10: she had that really huge comeback. I think they identified 498 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 10: that they were unusual and she was unusual, and there 499 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 10: was a connection there, and she liked them as much 500 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 10: as they liked her. What So, we'd gone to some 501 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 10: public function of concert and she was hungry, but she 502 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 10: was very exhausted from people coming up to her all night. 503 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 10: So she said, let's just go here. 504 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 5: There. 505 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 10: I see a bunch of young people there. They won't 506 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 10: know anything. So we go in there and we step 507 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 10: into the main dining area. And the moment we step 508 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 10: in there, some young old jumps up from the table 509 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 10: and says, the whole damn place, Oh my god, it 510 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 10: seems sum And she says, caracho. 511 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 3: But what happened with her and Peru? Did she ever 512 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 3: go back? 513 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 2: Well, two years before she passed away, Ima went to 514 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: Peru to finally receive recognition. 515 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 7: Super important. 516 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,479 Speaker 5: I'm very surprised they're saying she's a very important character 517 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 5: in our musical history. I'm shocked, given how much they 518 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 5: hated on her. Now she became an icon. 519 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 3: What happened? 520 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 2: Well, this is Limber Losano. He's a historian but also 521 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 2: the director of the program SUC Peru, which means it 522 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 2: happened in Peru. Telvis they did an episode on how 523 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 2: Peru had a change of heart with Ima Sumac. In 524 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 2: the early two thousands, a radio host, Miguel Molinetti started 525 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: using his radio show to promote Ema Sumac and make 526 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 2: a case for bringing her to Peru to give her 527 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 2: recognition while she was still alive. So I called Limbert 528 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: to talk about what changed for Peruvians l He says, 529 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: it was the death they had. She hasn't been given 530 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 2: the importance she should have. He says, enough time has passed. 531 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 5: So enough time has passed, and now they start to 532 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 5: see value in Ema Sumac. 533 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 2: Why well, Limber goes on to say that she was 534 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: a product of her time. He says, yes, she did 535 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 2: present an inauthentic image, an exotic view of Peru, but 536 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 2: it's important to remember the norms of Hollywood at the time, 537 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 2: the limitations of who could succeed in Hollywood at the time. 538 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 2: He says, you have to remember the context in which 539 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 2: she lived. Limb also says there is a saying in 540 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: Peru now it's literally that no one is a prophet 541 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 2: in their own land, meaning a lot of times people 542 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 2: need to leave home to be heard. He says, Sumac 543 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 2: isn't the only case. Cases like the Great Peruvian composer 544 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: and singer and Susan Avaca all have had greater followings 545 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 2: outside of Peru. But things are changing. The country is different. 546 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: They're reclaiming what's theirs. In two thousand and six, Peru 547 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,960 Speaker 2: awards her the highest award you can be given for 548 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 2: extraordinary contributions, amongst a few other awards and accolades. Here 549 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: you can hear her arriving into one of the government buildings, 550 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: packed with people and an orchestra playing condor passa, a 551 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 2: song considered part of proving national heritage, a song which 552 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 2: even she herself covers. In the nineteen seventies, here's Oila Mendoza, 553 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 2: our anthropologist we heard from earlier. 554 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 8: So Ima had already been diagnosed with column cancer, and 555 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 8: I think people knew that among those who have and 556 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 8: the background before you die, they are very important things 557 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 8: that you need to do that relate to your past. 558 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 8: And so we go through the world, leaving part of 559 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 8: us wherever we go. In order to continue our travel 560 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 8: after we die, we would have to go back to 561 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 8: those places and retrace our steps. In fact, it's funny 562 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 8: because it's I think opposite that the idea of the 563 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 8: bucket list. The packet list like you have to do 564 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 8: things that you haven't done. But people are always in 565 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 8: many ways looking to the pasked in a positive way. 566 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 8: You know, you have to recognize what came before you, 567 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 8: what you did before in order to move forward. 568 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 9: There is one. 569 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 5: It really seems like Emma's decades long career came full 570 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 5: circle when she retraced her steps. 571 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And Soyla actually has another connection to Imma Sumac. 572 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 2: Her mother and Ema were friends when they were in school, 573 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 2: and as part of IMA's journey, she visited Soila's mother. 574 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 8: She went to my mother's house and went to visit 575 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 8: her and they hugged and she said, you know, I 576 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 8: wanted to give you a hug and kiss you like 577 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 8: when we were girls. 578 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm can you get your emotional here? And then 579 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 4: then she just left Anna. Then she just passed. 580 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 2: Ima Sumac finally made peace with her home country. She 581 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 2: never forgot Peru, you know. 582 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: This episode originally aired in September of twenty nineteen. It 583 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: was produced by Gini Montalbo and edited by Sofia Palisa Ka. 584 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: The Latino USA team includes Miel Massias, Luis Reyes, Julieta Martinelli, 585 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: Alisa s Carce and Alejandra Salasad, with help from Andrea Lopez, 586 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: gruzsado Adrianna Tapia and Raul Beerees. In fact checking by 587 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: Leila Chern Special thanks to Damon Devine. Our engineers are 588 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: Stephanie Labaud, Julia Caruso and Lia Schapp. Our Director of 589 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,439 Speaker 1: Programming and Operations is Natalia fide Joz. Our digital editor 590 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,240 Speaker 1: is Amandar Cantra. Our New York Wins Foundation Ignite fellow 591 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: is Julia Rochard. Our theme music was composed by Zenie RINOs. 592 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: If you like the music you heard on this episode, 593 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: stop by Latinousa dot org and check out our weekly 594 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: Spotify playlist. I'm your host and executive producer Marie no Josa. 595 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode, and in the meantime, 596 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: look for us on all of your social media Asproxima Shao. 597 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 12: Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment, 598 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 12: building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians, 599 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 12: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the 600 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 12: Heising Simon's Foundation Unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more at 601 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 12: hsfoundation dot org. 602 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: Holder Fester Stronger, Longer, that that that that don't kill me. 603 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm Maria jo Hossam. Next time on Latino USA. 604 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 1: You first heard about istrias story here. Now we have 605 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 1: an update. Is three punished for breaking the law, punished 606 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: for being undocumented, punished for being trans in a men's prison. 607 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: That's next time on Latino USA.