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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer,

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Speaker 1: Alexa's code named dot Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. It is one of our

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Speaker 1: favorite times of the week, folks. This is where we

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Speaker 1: get to hear from you, the very best part of

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Speaker 1: this show. Now it's two congratulations, as we said earlier

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Speaker 1: this week, to everyone who survived to listen to T today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I go to you and uh we not Noel and

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Speaker 1: Doc and I spent uh spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: weading through correspondence, talking to people on you know, on

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Speaker 1: a telephone, talking to people on email. Thanks to everybody

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Speaker 1: who reached out on social media. Big shout out to

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Speaker 1: Stephanie who wished us marry Christmas on Christmas. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: big shout out, big big shout out. Also, huge shout

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Speaker 1: out to Sweet Miller Action on Etsy. It is a

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Speaker 1: page where you can get all of your metal work

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Speaker 1: home to core needs met and the blink of an eye.

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Speaker 1: A lovely listener who runs this page, UM sent us

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Speaker 1: all some really really cool do dads for Christmas. Um.

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Speaker 1: I ended up with a lovely nightlight that looks like

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Speaker 1: an acoustic bass, like an upright basse. Uh. You also

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Speaker 1: sent us these little little gelatinous slappy hands that are

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Speaker 1: fun for the whole family, for for kids any age

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Speaker 1: and adults too. Yes Miller, Yes, exactly what did you

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Speaker 1: guys get? I have a goat. Well then I'm very

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Speaker 1: excited about and a bass cliff. Now I I have

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Speaker 1: some stuff and thank you. Yes Miller, Yes, I have

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Speaker 1: some stuff from the one and only the legend sweet

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Speaker 1: Miller action. But he and I are actually in a

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Speaker 1: bit of a tiff, so yes Miller, Yes, if you're listening,

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Speaker 1: I do insist on. I do insist on paying you

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Speaker 1: for some stuff. You're too kind, too kind. We've gotten

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Speaker 1: like this is at this point I think it's safe

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Speaker 1: for us to say, Um. For for us, this is

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Speaker 1: more than a job. This is more than a just

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Speaker 1: a show like we have. UM. I read a very

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Speaker 1: interesting paper on what's called paras social relationships. Paras social

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Speaker 1: relationship is a phrase that described going somewhere with as

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Speaker 1: I promise A Para social relationship is a phrase that

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Speaker 1: describes the feeling humans experience when you, like you listen

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Speaker 1: to a musician and think this person gets me. They

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Speaker 1: must know my life. I feel a cloud atlas moment,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I am related to this person. This

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Speaker 1: happens also when you read poetry, or you read any

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Speaker 1: any work of art, you see a sculpture, etcetera. And

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Speaker 1: Paris social relationships spiked. The experience of having these spiked

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Speaker 1: during the pandemic, and it's very important for us to

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Speaker 1: establish to you listening now that for us it isn't

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Speaker 1: quite paras social relationship. We've we have actual friends now

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Speaker 1: listen to show we've got like uh I, you know,

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Speaker 1: we we haven't done a lot of the war stories

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Speaker 1: of maybe angry emails we get, but even those folks

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Speaker 1: end up being our our friends at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day. It's it's nuts we are We are so fortunate,

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Speaker 1: and with that we're going to share with you some

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Speaker 1: really bizarre and disturbing things that your fellow listeners have

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Speaker 1: hitped us too, because we we don't know about a

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Speaker 1: lot of this unless someone brings it up. So it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a huge part of the show. No not

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Speaker 1: I I suggest I suggest we start with we start

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Speaker 1: with this voicemail because you have been in the trenches,

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Speaker 1: my friend, and we we learned so much amazing stuff

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Speaker 1: from the people who call in. Our fellow conspiracy realists

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Speaker 1: will drop us a line and say, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: this weird ass pyramid out here in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: What's going on? I love this. This is how we

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Speaker 1: found out about the mystery of the church's chicken. Someone

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Speaker 1: someone hipped us to a mystery fast food joy and

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Speaker 1: now there is what is this matter? There's a I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at your notes here, there's a quote big ass

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Speaker 1: decoy near Richmond, near Richmond, Virginia. Yes, that is correct.

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Speaker 1: Before we jump into this message, shout out to Ed

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Speaker 1: who put us onto the book. The moon is a

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Speaker 1: harsh mistress that I think maybe we've talked about before

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Speaker 1: in the past. Robert Heinlein Heinlein, heinl Yeah, great book.

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Speaker 1: In that he discusses essentially a guss gun or a

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Speaker 1: rail gun that launches humans to the Moon totally forgot

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Speaker 1: about it. Thank you Ed for reminding us of that

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Speaker 1: house keeping up. Let's all three of us code named

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Speaker 1: Doc if you want to get in as well, Let's

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Speaker 1: all all four of us just continually shout out people

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Speaker 1: in this episode if we can. Oh, yeah, I'm just

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Speaker 1: doing it because I would listen to so many and

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're ever going to cover these, uh,

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Speaker 1: but do two more really fast and we'll get it.

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Speaker 1: So thank you AD for putting us back onto that.

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Speaker 1: Also shout out to brockness Monster who learned the lesson.

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Speaker 1: You should listen to the full episode before you call in, uh,

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Speaker 1: because brock, you know what you did. You know you

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Speaker 1: learned that lesson has to do with paratroopering cats in

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Speaker 1: a recent episode that we did. And lastly, quick shout

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Speaker 1: out to Amara, who sent us a message about berries

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Speaker 1: and cream. If you know what berries and cream is at? Lad, Yes,

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Speaker 1: my kids turned me onto that man and she has

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Speaker 1: she actually has a haircut right now that sort of

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Speaker 1: resembles the berries and cream Lad and uh and kids

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Speaker 1: in school all sort of big punt of her and

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Speaker 1: call the berries because he doesn't like him very much

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Speaker 1: because he's uh peep behind the curtain because we're kind

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Speaker 1: of Glen Garry Glenn Ross in the strange enterprise of

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Speaker 1: ours our no as you know, our Ride or Die.

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Speaker 1: The one and only Mr Matt Frederick created a fiction

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Speaker 1: anthology show Halloween Base called Thirteen Days of Halloween, and

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Speaker 1: then the first season of that, I wrote an episode

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Speaker 1: about an unfortunate situation at a gas station. It's entirely

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Speaker 1: inspired by that berries and cream commercial. So that's right

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Speaker 1: on our incredible that's right, And you'll have to listen

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Speaker 1: to the whole first season to figure out which episode

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Speaker 1: it was. I'm just kidding. It's called the Attic. You

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Speaker 1: can look it up. It's really all those stories, all

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Speaker 1: those stories are good. Uh there is my only note

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Speaker 1: on those stories. I love the audio fictions three D.

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Speaker 1: It's done with our good friend Alex Williams. It's done

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Speaker 1: with pal Aaron Manky. Um god, we haven't even gotten

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Speaker 1: to the first thing. But the only the only note

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Speaker 1: I would have on Thirteen Days is that I think

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Speaker 1: my pal Lowell Brown is an amazing voice actor. Probably no,

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Speaker 1: what was its cream? Prison cream? You're hind the little

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Speaker 1: lad who loves berries and cream? Yeah, yeah, you're definitely

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Speaker 1: hired season three, look for it and Halloween contractually obligated

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Speaker 1: to bring it to you. In the slapping sounds, I

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Speaker 1: don't do those. I just do the voice. We have

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Speaker 1: to do the We'll get a folly guy for that.

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Speaker 1: We have to. We have to. We should do this,

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Speaker 1: we should here we go, all right, This first message

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Speaker 1: comes from Roscoe. This is going to be a short one. Roscoe.

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Speaker 1: You'll see why. But let's listen to what you said. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my name is Roscoe. But twenty years ago I moved

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Speaker 1: to Richmond, Virginia, and a short time later heard about

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Speaker 1: something odd, a decoy city that was built about twenty

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Speaker 1: miles east of the city of Richmond. It was intended

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Speaker 1: to be a decoy in case of a nighttime bombing

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Speaker 1: run by an enemy coming in from the Atlantic Ocean.

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Speaker 1: And it was not full scale, but it was very large,

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Speaker 1: and it was a small scale version of downtown Richmond,

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Speaker 1: complete with lighting. I've never looked into it a whole lot,

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Speaker 1: but I think your talk of interesting structures made me

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Speaker 1: think of this. Thank you all right, well, thank you Roscoe.

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Speaker 1: My goodness, just the kind of thing that really butters

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Speaker 1: our bread. It is now I think I think it.

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Speaker 1: I think it forces people to to conjure images of

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Speaker 1: us as anthropomorphic slices of bread. Butter Ben and I

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Speaker 1: both at that moment Um Roscoe looked at each other

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Speaker 1: and did like our Um. We have an upcoming episode

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Speaker 1: of of our other show, Ridiculous History, Uh, that deals

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Speaker 1: with a time when a very clever and forward thinking

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Speaker 1: engineer came up with the idea to build a small

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Speaker 1: model of the city of Paris, uh, complete with lights

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Speaker 1: and all to evade bombings raids, so they would be

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Speaker 1: they would think they were bombing actual Paris, but it

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Speaker 1: was just a little farther away, and it was like

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Speaker 1: it was not scale model. It was like smaller, but

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Speaker 1: they would shut off all the real lights right then

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Speaker 1: in actual Paris, and then the bombers would potentially confuse

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Speaker 1: the model for the real deal. Yeah, exactly. This was

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Speaker 1: during World War One, so no one had the access

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Speaker 1: to intel or you know, satellite visibility that is so

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Speaker 1: common today. Uh. This oh Man, Matt Yes, emailed it.

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Speaker 1: Butter are bread. This reminds me of that time when

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Speaker 1: we were we were trying to figure out if Rob

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Speaker 1: Shrub and Dan Harmon, who were like they're very close friends,

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Speaker 1: I guess, but we were trying to figure out if

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Speaker 1: they were mad at each other when we were on

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Speaker 1: harm in Town and Dan said something like we we

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Speaker 1: were being very positive, nerdy people and we were saying

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Speaker 1: nice things about everybody. And Dan was like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: find grease him up. Exact liked Roscoe's greasing us up.

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Speaker 1: So look, I got bad. I got good news, bad news,

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Speaker 1: and bad news. I'm not sure how we're gonna make

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Speaker 1: this happen. But first, the bad news is Roscoe. I

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Speaker 1: could find nothing on a mock version of Richmond or

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Speaker 1: any other town in Virginia in that area. I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't find it um and maybe I just haven't

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Speaker 1: searched the correct terms. Maybe I was just I failed.

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Speaker 1: But what I did find is a decoy air base

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Speaker 1: that was constructed for real, uh fairly close to an

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Speaker 1: airport in Richmond, in Henriiko County. And that's how you

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Speaker 1: say it. By the way, I thought it was Henrico,

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Speaker 1: but it's Henriiko County. And you can do a little

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Speaker 1: searching search for this and you can find an air

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Speaker 1: in Space magazine article titled in ninety two, the Army

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Speaker 1: built a decoy airfield in Virginia to fool the Lutwaffe.

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Speaker 1: So very similar to the story you guys are covering

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Speaker 1: the Luftwaffa. As a German boy, I must the record straight, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the Lufaffa and Henriko County. So um, this one is

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Speaker 1: a little different, very interesting concept. Uh. The U. S.

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Speaker 1: Military went in there. They basically just took over some

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Speaker 1: land that was just forest and they cleared some of

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Speaker 1: it to make it look exactly like an airfield that

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Speaker 1: was nearby. It was a smaller airfield that was being

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Speaker 1: converted into something for the U. S. Army, and so

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Speaker 1: in order to protect it, they wanted to have this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this air field, like you said, with lights, with fox structures,

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Speaker 1: with fake airplanes, with all like shrubs cut in the

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Speaker 1: form of airplanes, and all kinds of things like yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: like it's pretty incredible. I would encourage you guys both

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Speaker 1: to look up that air and space. I linked it

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Speaker 1: in the dock there. If you want to look at it.

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Speaker 1: You can actually see an image of it from space

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Speaker 1: or from the sky, and you can tell that if

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Speaker 1: you flew over this thing, if it's night and it's

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Speaker 1: very dark in the surrounding areas. But this thing is

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Speaker 1: lit up. It looks like an airfield with targets that

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Speaker 1: you would bomb. It's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant stuff. What's interesting

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Speaker 1: in Roscoe is that this is an historically precedented I

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Speaker 1: think this works very well. There was during World War Two,

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Speaker 1: I believe there were there was a proliferation of things

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Speaker 1: called starfish sites. These these were built. These were supposed

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Speaker 1: to look like burning cities, British burning cities in the night,

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Speaker 1: so that German bombers during the blitz would be distracted

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Speaker 1: and wouldn't actually hit their intended target. The world is

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Speaker 1: full of facades, you know, and this is another example

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Speaker 1: of one. If anything, Matt, do we know the level

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Speaker 1: of preservation or the level of current use for this

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Speaker 1: decoy site. Well, if you go to this is kind

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Speaker 1: of a weird site. It's the wag w a g

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Speaker 1: dot net. You can find someone. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: I can even tell you who. It's written by Jake

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Speaker 1: Smith in two thousand three visited the site and took

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Speaker 1: some pictures and wrote up something in here titled Lost

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Speaker 1: City Found. And you can see some images of the

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Speaker 1: site and what it looks like now, it's just not

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Speaker 1: really a thing anymore. It's just kind of wilderness with

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Speaker 1: a random fire hydrant every once in a while, with

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Speaker 1: some remnants of gutters and fences and like again, some

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Speaker 1: of the faux buildings. I think there's even a water

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Speaker 1: tower that can be found on that area. I want

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Speaker 1: to give everybody just a couple other things to search

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Speaker 1: for if you want to Bird Airfield to b y

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Speaker 1: r D Airfield is the thing that this folks, this

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Speaker 1: faux air field was made to look like, and that

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Speaker 1: was very close by. That's what got turned into the

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Speaker 1: army air base in I'm getting some of this information

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Speaker 1: from Henryko dot us. That's h E N R I

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Speaker 1: c O dot us. They've got a small little right

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Speaker 1: up on it, and you can actually see an image

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Speaker 1: of the historic marker that's on place there. It was

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Speaker 1: titled or you could look it up as ELKO tracked

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Speaker 1: E L K O T R A C T, so

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Speaker 1: you can also search that to learn more about this. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't know ben that you guys, there's all kinds

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Speaker 1: of information that you can look up once you start

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Speaker 1: down the rabbit hole of this place about other places,

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Speaker 1: like you're talking about ben and all like other decoy sites.

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Speaker 1: We're talking during the Pacific War World War two. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about German cities and sites that were made

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Speaker 1: to look, you know, look real, but they were fake.

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Speaker 1: And if a real bombing raid was occurring, you just

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Speaker 1: shut down all the lights in the place that's going

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Speaker 1: to get bombed or would get bombed, and you turn

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Speaker 1: them all on in the other place. And here's guys,

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Speaker 1: the US Army actually stationed people at this fake site

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Speaker 1: to just live there on base, in these huts, and

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Speaker 1: they had them do things around the fake base like

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Speaker 1: they were real, like made to look like they're working

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Speaker 1: on the planes that aren't actually there, so that if

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Speaker 1: if there is any spy plane or anyone checking out

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Speaker 1: the area, they would say, oh, yeah, the freaking air

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Speaker 1: bases right there. Look. You can tell I love the idea.

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Speaker 1: You know, in um I guess In in improv and

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Speaker 1: other stage pursuits, they call that object work, which is

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Speaker 1: we're you just sort of pantomiming doing stuff. I love

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Speaker 1: this idea. Man, this concept. It may may seem silly

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Speaker 1: if you are lucky enough to have not been in

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Speaker 1: a situation where you needed this sort of strategy or tactic.

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Speaker 1: But this concept is a tremendously powerful example of information

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Speaker 1: warfare when you think about it, we are we are

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Speaker 1: altering hearts and minds when we are building fake cities,

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Speaker 1: and we still we did. Uh, we did an earlier

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Speaker 1: episode on places where you Can't go, but we have

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Speaker 1: never except for our our one adventure in New York,

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Speaker 1: we have never covered We've never covered entirely fake or

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Speaker 1: decoy cities. And they're still around, by the way, just

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Speaker 1: earlier this week, Matt, you had mentioned the problems with

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Speaker 1: real estate collapses, right and the very indus strange news

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Speaker 1: when we started predicting stuff, and uh, you know it's

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Speaker 1: no well, it's no secret outside of China that there

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Speaker 1: are vast conturbations that are almost entirely empty by hook

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Speaker 1: or by crook, Decoy cities, decoy places are going to

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Speaker 1: remain a real thing, Roscoe. Big question for you? What

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Speaker 1: is that? That's the question? Sorry? Yeah, conturbation is a

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Speaker 1: conturbation is just a fancy word for like a metro area. Okay,

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Speaker 1: cool now and something I love it. Well, So like

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Speaker 1: there there are almost entirely I don't know if you would,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what criteria we would use to decide

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Speaker 1: whether or not these are fake. But there are. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of abandoned places in the world,

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Speaker 1: even even now with such a large human population. Roscoe,

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Speaker 1: big question for you, did you get in? Are you

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Speaker 1: gonna go in? Don't do it? If it's anything. What's

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Speaker 1: that company we just talked about with the pyramid that

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Speaker 1: steel case, but then they it got turned into something

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Speaker 1: else and quick. Just to that point, been shouting out

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Speaker 1: the person that I can't remember your name, but you

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Speaker 1: called in and told us about your experience going on

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Speaker 1: I n L property out there in Idaho and near

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Speaker 1: the National Laboratories. I think that's what you said. I

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Speaker 1: might be wrong, but shout out to you because you

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Speaker 1: know you called in and you said something is just

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Speaker 1: getting muddled in my brain. Now, thank you. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: listen to it again, all right, Roscoe, Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for calling us and leaving us that message. We

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Speaker 1: will be right back with more messages from you. And

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Speaker 1: we're back with more messages from you. That's right. You

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Speaker 1: out there, whomever you are, uh, specifically you Jasper who

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Speaker 1: wrote in with a bit of a head v story. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting, though, I think it's worth knowing about.

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Speaker 1: Jasper writes with an email titled parents are build for

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Speaker 1: their children's foster care. Hi guys, today I came across

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Speaker 1: this article from NPR links to the article on NPR

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Speaker 1: that was heard on All Things Considered. States send kids

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Speaker 1: to foster care, and their parents the bill often one

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Speaker 1: too big to pay. I never knew that when a

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Speaker 1: family is able to be reunited to conflicting federal laws

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Speaker 1: and a number of state laws allow the parents to

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Speaker 1: be billed for the cost of fostering children. A failure

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Speaker 1: or inability to pay the bill, which can be tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars, goes onto their credit scores and

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Speaker 1: can result in difficulty securing housing, loss of licenses and permits,

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Speaker 1: garnished wages, and losing their children again. Uh. In addition

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Speaker 1: to the bill, in some cases, the money owed is

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Speaker 1: subject to interest. You better believe I'm writing to my representatives,

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Speaker 1: but I was hoping you could look into this and

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Speaker 1: mentioned it on a Listener mail episode. It definitely seems

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Speaker 1: like something they don't want you to know about. Foster care.

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Speaker 1: Take care jasper Um. This story just came out a

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Speaker 1: couple of days ago, actually yesterday today being recording this,

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Speaker 1: UM and I certainly was not aware of this either.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the story highlights the case of a

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Speaker 1: woman named Daisy Hallman Um who moved into a trailer

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Speaker 1: that had an extra room to rent after she had

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Speaker 1: separated from her husband. We know that can be a

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Speaker 1: costly and stressful situation, you know, for the man or

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Speaker 1: the woman or we either partner in a in a

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Speaker 1: divorce or separation. Not to mention the kids. Um, she

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Speaker 1: and her three kids have been moving from place to

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Speaker 1: place day with family. UM and now they found this

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Speaker 1: place that they could rent a room in a trailer.

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Speaker 1: And not two weeks after staying there, the address was

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Speaker 1: rated by police who found drugs and drug paraphernale there. Um.

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Speaker 1: She was not the target, she was at work, She

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Speaker 1: had no drugs found on her, and she was not charged.

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Speaker 1: But Child Protective Services in the county where this took place,

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Speaker 1: Right County, Minnesota, placed her kids, UH fifteen and ten,

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Speaker 1: two daughters and a son aged nine, into foster care,

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Speaker 1: pulled them away from from their mom during it was

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Speaker 1: already a horrible time. I mean, I can't imagine. It

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Speaker 1: just seems utterly cruel and inhuman because the officials determined

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Speaker 1: that she had left her children an unsafe place. Maybe

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Speaker 1: there's some truth to that, but it just seems very, very,

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Speaker 1: very extreme. Uh. So they were in foster care for

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Speaker 1: twenty months. Uh and when they returned, she got a

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Speaker 1: bill for a whopping nineteen thousand, five hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: dollars and seven cents and seven cents. Uh. And apparently

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Speaker 1: this is super common in every single state because there

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Speaker 1: are these two federal laws that kind of contradict each other,

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Speaker 1: one that um instructs child welfare agencies to make reuniting

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Speaker 1: families their first priority, and the other that is forty

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Speaker 1: years old on the books that says states should charge

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Speaker 1: parents for the cost of childcare. And this is a

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Speaker 1: great example of just like you know, I mean, most

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Speaker 1: of these antiquated laws that stay on the books are

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Speaker 1: things that are silly and funny to talk about, like

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Speaker 1: spitting in public as illegal or you know, swearing in

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Speaker 1: the presence of a lady. But this is the kind

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Speaker 1: of antiquated law that absolutely is causing people absurd, uh

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Speaker 1: damaging problems. You know, Um, I just can't imagine if

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Speaker 1: you're already struggling to get on your feet. This is

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Speaker 1: like the equivalent of like debtors prison, you know, or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Where but also in the first place,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't even something that was her fault. She found

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Speaker 1: herself in a situation that was desperate. She made a

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00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: desperate move, and maybe it was had some poor judgment

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Speaker 1: in terms of like the safety of the type of

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Speaker 1: place where they were staying, but also maybe it was

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Speaker 1: the only SI that she had. And it seems really

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Speaker 1: cruel to penalize her for that, especially when she's just

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Speaker 1: getting back on her feet, and that's that's an amount

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Speaker 1: of money that would be difficult for most people to

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Speaker 1: come up with on the fly let alone, if they're

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00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: compounding it with interest. I mean, I just think this

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Speaker 1: is just unconsfortable. Well, we still haven't done our Foster

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Speaker 1: Home Industry episode. We we talked about this a while back,

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Speaker 1: and we received some very personal accounts from a lot

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Speaker 1: of our fellow listeners, and of course I want to

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Speaker 1: thank everybody who took the time to write in, because

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Speaker 1: it had to be harrowing to sort of relive those experiences.

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Speaker 1: If you have been in the foster system on any level,

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00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: in any sort of role. You are well aware of

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00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: the problems with the system, with the infrastructure of it.

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Speaker 1: There are you know, there there are blue function as

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Speaker 1: foster parents entirely for the financial aspect, and they're really

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00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: they're really, really amazing foster parents who want to make

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Speaker 1: the world a little bit less efficient place for a kid.

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Speaker 1: And that is commendable. That is one of the most

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Speaker 1: amazing things you can do is to be a parent

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Speaker 1: figure for a young human. But with this, no Jasper,

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00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people are talking about

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00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: this because it's it's a crime that and I will

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00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: say it's a crime, like what degree of incompetence or

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00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: legal oversight do we have to reach? What's the threshold

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Speaker 1: before we say this is criminal? Like these are these

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Speaker 1: are the some of the most disadvantaged people, these parents, right,

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Speaker 1: like you said, most people don't have twenty grand they

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00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: can just pay on demand. And secondly, these folks are

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Speaker 1: not going to buy and large have the money to

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Speaker 1: pursue a legal challenge to this, and where where does

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00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: my My question is where does the money go? Like

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00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: if if this family, because it's a family, it's not

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00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: just the mom. If this family pays twenty grand Does

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00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: that go to the foster parents, Does they go to

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00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: like admin fees? Do they ticket Master? It is there

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00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: like a list of like all these small incidental things. Well,

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00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: it's also the kind of thing that you would think

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00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: of almost like in terms of like a exorbitant hospital

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00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: bill for someone that doesn't have insurance, like you can

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00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: usually negotiate it down, you know. And I don't know

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00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: if this is like iron clad, if you're getting an

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00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: itemized list. I mean it did say in the NPR

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00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: piece that some of these charges were like their individual

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00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: charges first anywhere from twenty five dollars to over a

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00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month um. That add up and the

429
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: longer that the kids are in the foster care, the

430
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: the you know, the more that bill adds up. And

431
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: this is a ninety eight word bill. Yep, that that

432
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: is correct, Matt. How does this hit you, man? Well, first,

433
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: it hits me in the fields when it comes to

434
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: the investigators, the journalists that actually are looking into this

435
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: and telling this story, specifically Joseph Shapiro, Teresa Wilts, and

436
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: Jessica Piper, like, thank you for covering this story and

437
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: for doing an entire investigation on it. Um, this is

438
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that needs to be talked about.

439
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: And what what's really hitting me is what you're you guys,

440
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: are mentioning already here the concept of twenty thou dollars

441
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: being charged uh to a mom who is trying to

442
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: support her family and do what's right for them. But

443
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: she's having made these decisions. And I believe she's the

444
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: person who's saying she was living on ten thousand dollars

445
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: a year within this piece. And you know, if you

446
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: imagine charging someone who makes ten thousand dollars a year

447
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: twenty tho dollars, you're not going to get that back

448
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: anytime soon because of what you need to spend that

449
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: money on, which is a very small amount of money,

450
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars and you're gonna charge twice that to somebody.

451
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: And how long were they in care Matt again twenty months,

452
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: so a little less than two years. Oh, I was wrong, guys.

453
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 1: According to the nprpiece, it was eighty percent of the

454
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: families that showed up in the data as they were

455
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: looking into this at Trish scoff Emmer Uh of the

456
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: families had incomes of less than ten grand a year.

457
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 1: That tracks but I'm just wondering, like, this is this

458
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: is for the care for three children, um, over the

459
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: course of a little over a year or was it

460
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: roughly two years? Is a little less than two years?

461
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: And so what does what does that breakdown to per month?

462
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: Thousand a month if you round up? Well, okay, this

463
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,239
Speaker 1: big devil's advocate here, And I still don't think this

464
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: is right. A thousand a month for three kids. That

465
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: made that far off from reality, you know, um, being

466
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: a being a dad. Just I'm just saying like, yeah,

467
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: and and and where is that money is supposed to

468
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: come from? You know, I think there should obviously be

469
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: a deal worked out in some way, you know, But

470
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: it's like she's also obviously also during this time, is

471
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: she able to work? She is probably able to work.

472
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: But still, yeah, that's wild. Um, it's it's it's a

473
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: tough it's a tough position. You try and charge uh,

474
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, a family, your mom or dad, whoever makes

475
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: that little money, try and charge him that much money.

476
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: You're not going to get it back, at least anytime soon.

477
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,239
Speaker 1: So I don't understand how this could all be a

478
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: profitable thing for the state or you know, for whoever

479
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: is actually what agency is getting money paid back. They

480
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: must have to them on payment plans like they do

481
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: with the exorbit in hospital bill too. I mean they

482
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: have to charnish. Well, that would be one way to

483
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: do it. Well, let me see this. Let me point

484
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: this out. So if someone these are this is a

485
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: federal law, but they're also state level regulations, policies and laws.

486
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: If someone is in the foster care system, it should

487
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: not be a for profit system. And this is Please folks,

488
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: please do not mistake us as somehow quote unquote defending

489
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: deadbeat parents. That's not what we're doing at all. But

490
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: what I'm pointing out here is that if you are

491
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: listening to this, we're in the United States, you are

492
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: already paying to help these people. In theory, the system

493
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: of taxation means that we're all sort of in a club, right,

494
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: and we pay our dues. And when we all pay

495
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: our dues, I don't think that's ever happened. But if

496
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: we all pay our dues in theory, then we are

497
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: creating an infrastructure to address these sorts of problems. The

498
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 1: goal is not to punish people, right that it shouldn't

499
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: be the goal. The goal is to help these kids

500
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,719
Speaker 1: have a decent shot at a good life. That is

501
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: why civilizations exist. Uh, the like, I know, it's probably

502
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: it was probably great for the Reagan administration, right, just

503
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: it was probably great for optics and votes to say, hey,

504
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: make these bad parents pay their fair share. But I

505
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: guarante MCTE you Ronald Reagan did not personally meet every

506
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: parent who had to have their kid in the foster system.

507
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: Didn't know what he was talking about. Wasn't that also

508
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: in the era of like this kind of perceived like

509
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: the welfare Queen and all of that garbage that was

510
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: created like as a absolute dog whistle racist Uh you

511
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: know tactic. In my opinion, I think in many people's opinions, well,

512
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: I get the I get the idea, you know, I

513
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: under stand the idea that people should be personally and

514
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: fishly responsible. I get it. I'm also establishing that the

515
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: goal is the goal should maybe not be to punish people,

516
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: however their life may have played out or however it's

517
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: playing out. The goal should be to help people. And

518
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: the idea that you would find someone at the most

519
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: vulnerable point in their lives and say, if you want

520
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: to see your kids, give us twenty grand is unconscionable.

521
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: It's it's very strange. It's it's at the like, regardless

522
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: of political opinions, it's very much a flaw in a

523
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: system like like Matt, like you were saying ten dollars

524
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: a year, so that's two years worth of someone's entire livelihood.

525
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: Instead of taking twenty dollars, what about giving twenty dollars

526
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: to the kids as like a trust fund thing or

527
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: to help them, help help them be able to enter

528
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: college without falling into the debt trap of student warrants. Yeah,

529
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: it is crazy. You pay for an apartment, like for

530
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: a couple of months so that there is a safe

531
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: place for those kids to be. And you know this,

532
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: this kind of thing wouldn't happen in the first place.

533
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: But you know, instead you're gonna garnish their wages and

534
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: you know they'll even take away your licenses. They'll take

535
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: your driver's license away. What do you think that does

536
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: to the ability of someone who doesn't make much money

537
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: to be able to make any money. It's as afficious cycle.

538
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: I like I've mentioned this on the show before, but

539
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: like I've been to jail all of one time. It

540
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: was for an unpaid um speeding ticket or something that

541
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: I got in an area where it was kind of

542
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere and you had to mail

543
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: in your payment. They didn't have computer option. Uh, And

544
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: so I got to do a little fender bender and

545
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: my ticket had not shown up as paid, and so

546
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: my license had a suspended and I had some kind

547
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: of bench warrants. So I got got taken to jail,

548
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: and there was this dude and then the cell that

549
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: I was in who had been there for a week

550
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: because he had because he you know, he got in there.

551
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: He got in there for failure to pitch out support.

552
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: And what happens when you come to bet, you go

553
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: to jail for a week, you lose your job and

554
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: makes it where you can't paitch out support or get

555
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: out of jail. Well, people who have not been involved

556
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: with the us IS incarceration system maybe unfamiliar with this adage,

557
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: but it's often said, and it's unfortunately true in this country. Uh,

558
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: jail easy to get in, hard as hell to get out.

559
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: It's true because it's not a it's it's not a

560
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: rehabilitative program, right, And this this is part of a

561
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: bigger problem we had actually behind the scenes, we were

562
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: working on a week. You're gonna have a very depressing

563
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: week with us in the future, folks, where we talk

564
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: about the incarceration system. I saw Matts, Matt, I saw

565
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: your play there. Yeah, it's gonna be uh, it's gonna

566
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: be a downer, but it is important at this point,

567
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: you know. Um, Again, it's tough to navigate because the

568
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: people who are getting harmed the most by this are

569
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: the children. But they're being harmed in a way that

570
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: will ultimately harm society, you know what I mean. Like

571
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: every of course, nobody likes paying taxes, which is why

572
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: the very wealthy getaway with not paying taxes. But those

573
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: taxes go to something. There is a reason. It's the constant.

574
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: I don't know why it's a hot take to say

575
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: that if you have the power of three hundred twenty

576
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: million plus honestly smart people. I don't know why it's

577
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: a hot take to say that this society would do better,

578
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, why twenty dollars, that's

579
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: the price they're putting on on the future of the kid,

580
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: on the future of these three kids and their families,

581
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: And that just seems like something future historians will think

582
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: is so ridiculous because these kids have had a good life.

583
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: Well yeah, they could have, but humans were very into

584
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: this coupon system we had at the time, and we

585
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: needed we needed to exchange the coupons. Oh my god,

586
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: I said it was going to be positive while we

587
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: were recording. Sorry, guys, well that's a little tough. You're right,

588
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: And I mean, like, I don't know where that tax

589
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: money goes, and I know where it goes in theory

590
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: what I've about it before on the show. It certainly

591
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: doesn't go to fixing roads in my neighborhood and like

592
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: literally anything functional that I can benefit from in my

593
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: day to day. And maybe that's overseeing the case a

594
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: little bit, but I sure would love for it to

595
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: go to helping people out that actually need help. So

596
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: hot taker, no, I think we're on the same page

597
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: about that. Um So, let's turn the page to an

598
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: ad break and then we'll come back with one last

599
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: piece of mail from you. And we have returned. We

600
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: have not returned unaccompanied. We're going to have a deep

601
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: conversation about foster care and the industry as it stands.

602
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: We would love your help and your input, so don't

603
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: forget to hit us up. We'll tell you how to

604
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: reach us at the end of the show. But right

605
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: now we have to welcome our final guests on today's

606
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: Listener Mail, and that is Steve. Steve, you asked the

607
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: question that I have. I think Matt Noel doc I

608
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but definitely me. I think we've

609
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 1: all asked this question at some point. Just to give

610
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: you some context without spoiling it, this is one of

611
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: those phrases you hear thrown around all the time and

612
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: mainstream news with economic or political pundits who are talking

613
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: in very authoritative seeming terms. Here is what Steve wrote,

614
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: national debt question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark.

615
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: That's four question marks for everybody. Keep the count at home, Steve.

616
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: Here's what he said, So just listen to Petro dollars

617
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: one oh one, great taste, Steve. I think that episode

618
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: holds up. Steve says, when you guys brought up what

619
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: would happen when the world decided that America wasn't the

620
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: superpower anymore and stopped using the US dollars the current currency.

621
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: It got me thinking about our national debt. How the

622
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: f do we even owe? And how would we default

623
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: to or who would we default to? Is it as

624
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: made up as currency value? Maybe you guys covered it

625
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: and I can't find it. I don't watch the old

626
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 1: YouTube stuff. Oh you're in for retreat, Steve, but I

627
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: listen all the time to the podcast. If you did

628
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: already cover national debt true or false? Could you point

629
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: me in the right direction of the show? You guys

630
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: help me feel sane when surrounded by my family. The

631
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: national debt. It's one of those phrases like, oh, the economy, oh,

632
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 1: the national debt. Whichever political party is in power will

633
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: have incredibly convenient opinions on the national debt, you know,

634
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: will will have Like usually here in the US, the

635
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: national debt is kind of a football that people pass

636
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: around to lend credence to their current goals or arguments.

637
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: So like any time there is a Democratic president, you're

638
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: going to see a lot of Republican representatives in Congress

639
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: saying that the debt is the number one thing and

640
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: sort of holding the financial future of the country hostage

641
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: to get what they want. And this is not a

642
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: hit piece on the Republican side, because the Democratic Party

643
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: does the same thing, and they will continue to do

644
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: so because this is a functionally a two party system, right,

645
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: So I wanted to open this up you guys first

646
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: before we explore this national debt. Have you have you

647
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: ever had the same question that Steve had, like who

648
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: do we owe? I feel like we've talked about this before,

649
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: but I think it's one of those topics that I

650
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: put out of my mind because it's almost like it

651
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: was so made up that I didn't need to keep

652
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,800
Speaker 1: it in. Uh. But I'm hanging out over on us

653
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: debt clock dot org because I remember going here before

654
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: where it's just counting up everything, and right now, our

655
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: national debt stands at twenty nine trillion, three hundred and

656
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: seventies seven billion, eight hundred and sixty eight million, and no,

657
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: eight and sixty nine million. There you. Oh, let's divide

658
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: that by person. So this is the population. Let's just

659
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, let's let's let let's take a per capita.

660
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: I'll tell you, per per capita, it's eight thousand, a

661
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: little over eighty eight thousand. Per taxpayer, it's two hundred

662
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: and thirty Okay, Okay, I got you. But let's just

663
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: call it eight eight grand because that'll be hilarious for

664
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: all of our fellow conspiracy willists who don't live in

665
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 1: the US, We're all almost ninety grand in the whole

666
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: just for hanging out in our weird club. And uh,

667
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: it's nuts, because you know, the idea of debt powers

668
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: the world, the powers the economy, which is the dominant

669
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: religion of this age. Shout out to our earlier episode.

670
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: Is economy a religion? Spoiler? It is? So when we

671
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: when we think about debt, we often think about it

672
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: in a personal level. Right, I owe Matt twenty dollars,

673
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: or like Noel says, I gotta pay the you know,

674
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: the electricity bill or something. National. Yeah, national debt is

675
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: not like that. It is not like student loans. It's

676
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: not like credit card debt. And it might surprise you

677
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: Steve to learn that there are answers to some of

678
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: these questions. That Debt clock map brought up. I think

679
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: is an excellent resource. But I also like to just

680
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: pull on our House of works DNA real quick and

681
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: and do uh, let's call it, like explain like I'm

682
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: five national debt. Right. So it sounds weird when you

683
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: hear the news, when you hear some pundit saying like oh,

684
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: the trade deficit or the US is so in debt,

685
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: and you think, like to oom, the country with the

686
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: world's most powerful military, the country that on its own

687
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: could destroy the planet, is stressing about money, right, It

688
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 1: seems counterintuitive, but here's what's going on. The US national debt.

689
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: The majority of it is technically owe to the public,

690
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: to the citizen rate of the US. This is where

691
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: things like bonds come in. You'll buy a bond or

692
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 1: you'll buy a security, and it's backed by the United

693
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: States government. So you're essentially you're entering a contract where

694
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: you say, Okay, I'm going to give you some money,

695
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: Uncle Sam, and Uncle Sam says, I'm good for it.

696
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: I give you the money back. Let's a little bit

697
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: of you know, a little bit of a cherry on

698
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: top to make it worth your time. It's just gonna

699
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: take me ten to thirty years because because you know

700
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: that's how large organizations work, then your freelancer and the

701
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: audience knows what a nightmare invoices can be sometimes. And

702
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: it seems like the bigger an organization, uh, the more

703
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: lax they are on paying on time. But anyway, you

704
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: get this, so you buy this bond and the government

705
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: debt then is kind of like it's not quite the

706
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: same thing, but it's kind of like a it's almost

707
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,719
Speaker 1: like a stock, right you you are getting dividends. The

708
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: interest rates from those bonds are pretty low. We're talking

709
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: like three percent or so. And the question is why

710
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: would you do this? Inflation goes up at a predictable

711
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: rate over time, right, So why would you why would

712
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: you buy this kind of bond? Why why would you say, okay, America,

713
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: give me an iou. It's because you are guaranteed to

714
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: get that interest. It's a smaller rate of interest, but

715
00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: it's actual money instead of potential profit. And the U.

716
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: S Government has, in their defense, always paid up with

717
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 1: this stuff. So it's consistent, it's predictable, it's a safe place, right,

718
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: even if it's not the most profitable. So most of

719
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: this stuff being called national debt is owed to the

720
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: US public, but a lot of it is owed to

721
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: other branches of the US government, and yes, some a

722
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: big portion of it is owed to other countries. The

723
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: thing is going back to our example of like me

724
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: oing Matt twenty dollars or Noal needing to pay the

725
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: electricity bill. We don't get to print our own money

726
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: other than ben bucks, which are still you know, kind

727
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: of the newer bitcoin. I would say, the US, when

728
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: it owes money, can print money. It can, it can

729
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: put its finger on the scale through things like quantitative

730
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 1: easing and so on. So you'll you'll hear a lot.

731
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 1: The reason this stuff sounds so abstract sometimes and so

732
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: weird is because it is abstract ultimately, right, Like there's

733
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: you're never going to hear a politician saying something like, um,

734
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 1: we have to bend the knee to Goldman's sacks. Right,

735
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: You're not going to hear that because it's bad optics.

736
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: But if you look back historically in things like the

737
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: Lincoln administration during the Civil War, the guy was in

738
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: the trenches fighting with private banks over interest rates, like

739
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: the like, national debt is a real thing, but you

740
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: need to think of it more like a stock. It's

741
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: consistently uh, it's a consistently paying out investment. And we

742
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: will even hear the argument that happened. Debt is healthy

743
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: because it keeps the whole Ponzi scheme of capitalism running. Well,

744
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: you're welcome, right, And the US is paying this back

745
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: also constantly on like on the same scale. You know,

746
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 1: a few years back, I think we were all surprised

747
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: to learn that Germany had finally paid off its fines

748
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: for World War Two, which was nuts. But this, this

749
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: does happen. The main thing after remember is that national

750
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: debt is not the same as your personal debt. It

751
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: also is a debt owed by an organization that can

752
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 1: literally create money if it wants to, which calls into question,

753
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 1: you know, the calls into the question of the credibility

754
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: of the whole house of cards, our house of dollars.

755
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: And then secondly, you need to remember that this is

756
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: highly politicized. There's a lot of political theater behind this.

757
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: It's it's such a convenient boogeyman to raid. We know,

758
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: we have clearly established people much more intelligent than us

759
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: have clearly established the economy is not the people, right.

760
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: That's why you can have the world's largest economy in

761
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: the same country with the highest incarceration rates. That's why

762
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: you can have people illiterate, you can have people starving,

763
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: you can have people dying from preventable disease, easily preventable

764
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: disease while Wall Street is doing gangbusters in the fourth

765
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: quarter or whatever. I'm sorry, thank you for letting me

766
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: Ted talk. I mean, even even Scully is back there

767
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: like rolling your eyes. Sorry, guys. Well, hey, I found

768
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: something through the story that's related back to one of

769
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: my predictions. Ben. Within the U S Debt clock dot

770
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 1: org system, you can find us home Pricing and Sales

771
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: and they've got a handy little thing here that gives

772
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: you new home median sale price and it shows it

773
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,399
Speaker 1: to you from two thousand six until two thousand twenty one.

774
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 1: And if you look back, you can see that the

775
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: housing crisis that occurred, you know, two two thousand throughout there,

776
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: and you can see how there's a ridiculous jump from

777
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: a new home median sale price in the year of

778
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: two d and eighty eight thousand dollars two in two

779
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: thousand twenty one, four hundred and twenty seven thousand dollars.

780
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: The median sale price of a house jumps up that

781
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 1: much in one year's time. And uh, it just shows

782
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: you that there's a bubble. Boys, the whole thing, the

783
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: house of cards you're mentioning, it's just waiting to go

784
00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: Papa there you go, okay, okay, you guys should be

785
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: Uh there's like a sound effects men, you know, like

786
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: for the old timey radio plays to the fully work. Yeah, yeah,

787
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: uh so, this I think is an episode in the making.

788
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: The national debt is something that you here talked about

789
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 1: often in the US, especially during times of political change,

790
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: but you also hear it in many, many other countries

791
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: because of the international banking system, because of the whole

792
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 1: practice of the capital e economy. But are big takeaway

793
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: Steve for you before we call it a day, is this.

794
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a big bad enemy that the

795
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: US owes tons and tons of money too, it is

796
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: the US public. They are the main folks that Uncle

797
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: Sam needs to needs to pay up. And uh there

798
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: are also a course foreign investors there for government's people

799
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: are trading debt back and forth through their treasuries. Investing

800
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: in US treasuries is a deliberate strategy for foreign powers,

801
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 1: including places like Russia and China. And the reason this is,

802
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to get too in the weeds, but

803
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: the reason this works so well is because if you

804
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: are if you are a country, right and you have

805
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: your own currency, then one of the things you're really

806
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: concerned about is how how valuable your currency is relative

807
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: to other currencies like, Make no mistake, there are people

808
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: in corporations that you would never associate with this. Like there,

809
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: I would not be surprised if there's someone who works

810
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: at Coca Cola and their entire job is to just

811
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: like move money around in the currency market. Right, is

812
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: the one gonna improve over the dollar or the British

813
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: pound or the euro. Let's try to move that around

814
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 1: and make a percentage. Countries don't always want their money

815
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 1: to be the most quote unquote expensive money. It actually

816
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: can help them, especially their country without the devil's deal

817
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 1: of the petro dollar, like the US has. A weaker

818
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: currency can help a country. It's it's deeper than a

819
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 1: light bill, folks. It's crazy, crazy stuff. But Steve, this

820
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: is a question that has been on my mind as well.

821
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: I think it's been on all our minds. It's something

822
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: that we have to do a future episode on. So

823
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: thank you Steve, thank you Roscoe, thank you Jasper. We

824
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: are on the case. We're diving into this stuff, and

825
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 1: we're diving into two Can you believe we made it? Guys?

826
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: We just did our first listener mail of the new year.

827
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: Yes that is fake? Wow? Well yeah, um decoy City

828
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: and Virginia. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. That is real, is

829
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: a real thing. Sorry, I wanted to jump into old

830
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: prospect Or voice when we were talking about some of

831
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: these listeners that wrote to us. Oh, Jasper and Roscoe

832
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 1: right to us with all the information, and Steve too,

833
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: good old Steve with coming through with the information. Mm

834
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: hmmm uh. And if you want to join us on

835
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: this merry misadventure, this strange enterprise of the show, we

836
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: would love to have you on board. If you want

837
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: to take a page from Roscoe, Jasper and Steve's book

838
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: or there take a take a gold nugget from their claim.

839
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: Where are we going with the Prospector think? Okay, now

840
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: that checks out all right? Well, if you want to

841
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: talk to us, The point is we can't wait to

842
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: hear from you. We try to be easy to find online,

843
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: oh boy or we ever on the internet. You can

844
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: find us in the usual places of note, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube.

845
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: We exist under the handle at conspiracy Stuff. You can

846
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: also find us on Instagram at the handle at Conspiracy

847
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: Stuff Show. If you want to use your mouth in

848
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: your phone, you can contact us that way. Three st

849
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: d w y t K Wow on the fly can

850
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 1: get out of my head. Dude, that's exactly st d

851
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: w y t K. That's our number. Give us a call. Please.

852
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: You don't have to do it in Limerick or whatever

853
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Speaker 1: the heck that was. Give yourself a cool nickname. You've

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Speaker 1: got three minutes. Tell us whatever you'd like. We'd love

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Speaker 1: to hear from you. Please let us know if we

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Speaker 1: can use your voice and message on one of these

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Speaker 1: listener mail episodes. Uh, that's really Those are the only

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Speaker 1: rules other than that, no rules. If you don't want

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00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: to use your phone to contact us with your voice,

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00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: you can instead put some things into an electronic message

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Speaker 1: and send it via email. We are conspiracy at iHeart

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Speaker 1: radio dot com. M m H. Stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. Is a production of I heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i

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Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows.