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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.

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Speaker 2: That's Georgia Hert Star. That's Karen Kilgariff, And we are

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Speaker 2: professional broadcasters.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard haven't you heard the word about us

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Speaker 1: and broadcasting.

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Speaker 2: The good word? Do you like that I'm and this

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Speaker 2: is just for the YouTube audience, wearing a shirt that

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Speaker 2: kind of looks like I might just be sitting here

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Speaker 2: with no shirt on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but also you're insanely tan.

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Speaker 2: Oh. Well, yeah, I'm just going outside. It's so hot outside.

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Speaker 2: I'm just going out by the pool and spending I mean,

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Speaker 2: for me, it is.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't remember having seen your arms in a

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Speaker 1: long time, and the tan as a fuck. It turns

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Speaker 1: out I knowed.

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Speaker 2: Is I should have first revealed my pale arms to

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Speaker 2: you and then had told you. Had I known? Listen, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna go out onto the patio this weekend and

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Speaker 2: really do some stuff. Be careful.

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Speaker 1: Now there's uv rays. I'd put fake tanner on. It's

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Speaker 1: a little orange.

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Speaker 2: Well, looks fine.

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Speaker 1: I'm like trying a bunch of them out for like tour.

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Speaker 2: Before tour, Like, so I don't look in stripes, see

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Speaker 2: which one is most natural? Yeah, what can.

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Speaker 1: You see from the stage, like, do I like orange?

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Speaker 2: Actually, you know what's funny about that is I have

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Speaker 2: a dress I tried on that is especially plunging neckline,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, I think I'm gonna have to use

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Speaker 2: fake tanner on this part of my chest that's never

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Speaker 2: been seen by the outside world. Cleavage, the lower cleave

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Speaker 2: that has stayed indoors for ten years.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you have your own backyard, you have to

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Speaker 1: lay out topless. That's like one of the joys of

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Speaker 1: having your own backyard.

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Speaker 2: But one of the joys of the house that's next

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Speaker 2: to you being kind of a boll of you, is

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Speaker 2: that you just I would feel so self conscious the

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Speaker 2: whole time.

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Speaker 1: Hand those cities, fuck them, fuck them hall say you're welcome.

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Speaker 2: Motherfuckers, you're welcome. Just keep winking and finger gunsing up

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Speaker 2: at them. Why are you doing that? Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Put your tits away. Why is she doing that? Why

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Speaker 2: does she keep winking at us? Why does she have

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Speaker 2: her tits?

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking of touring and tits.

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Speaker 2: I guess no, what do you have to have? No,

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Speaker 2: that's a perfect sag, because get in there, we're.

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Speaker 1: Going on tour. I think the tan thing we should

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Speaker 1: say I could say, we should say, we might say

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Speaker 1: when this goes up, we'll be in Denver for the

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Speaker 1: first live show in eight six years, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Six or seven? Six or seven years. What's your number

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Speaker 2: one fear about that first night on stage in Denver?

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Speaker 1: God, there's just so many actually, there aren't any everything

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Speaker 1: leading up to what I'm terrified of, But once you

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Speaker 1: get up there, I'm like, we got this. It's that

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Speaker 1: thing of like I'm not nervous about how it's gonna go.

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Speaker 1: I think he's gonna go fucking great. Oh good, And

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Speaker 1: I'm just excited about that. Okay, great, Maybe like I

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Speaker 1: could trip on the way in, but even that would

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Speaker 1: be like kind of funny.

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Speaker 2: I think we've done that though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so hopefully someone gets it on video and

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Speaker 1: it's fine.

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Speaker 2: Yes, content content, content, always, everything is content. I think

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Speaker 2: I just had that feeling of like you can't go back,

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Speaker 2: or like you can't recapture the old times. And I

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Speaker 2: loved the old times so much as you can you can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, why not, it's the same now, just just

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Speaker 1: time is different, true, true? And that bitch is linear?

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Speaker 1: Isn't linear?

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Speaker 2: That's right? Is not linear? Whose side are you on?

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Speaker 2: Georgia said time is not linear or mine based in

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Speaker 2: rooted in science, So that Denver's gonna go well or

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Speaker 2: Denver's gonna go terribly Denver, what if the best show

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Speaker 2: we ever did was the Bananas Show. We guessed it

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Speaker 2: on in Denver and truly we peaked. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 2: it was amazing.

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Speaker 1: You should come to our live shows. There's some cities

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Speaker 1: that and some nights in certain cities that aren't selling out.

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Speaker 1: So we really disappointed in New San Diego and Diego.

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Speaker 2: Why got it together? We were there for you.

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Speaker 1: We were so there for you. We have great stories

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Speaker 1: from there too, or at least I do.

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Speaker 2: What that diorama was given to us in San Diego.

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Speaker 2: I can almost bet on it.

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Speaker 1: See, they used to love us.

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Speaker 2: I mean they would make us stock. I've made us stuff.

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Speaker 2: But here's a difference. Six years in time. They've taken

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Speaker 2: all of the money out of the normal person's hands

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Speaker 2: and stolen out a way. Okay, who has an extra

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Speaker 2: however much money this is to go?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some exciting things going on at the live

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Speaker 1: shows that we can't talk about and won't talk about.

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Speaker 1: Refuse to talk about Salami wheel. There's gonna be so

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Speaker 1: you're gonna want to go. I think it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a great tour and I'm looking forward to it, and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to my tan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're now in a tan contest, Georgia. You have

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Speaker 2: to beat this level.

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Speaker 1: Good luck.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of freckles that might be visual.

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Speaker 1: It's very Italian tan. I can't achieve as a Eastern

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Speaker 1: European woman.

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Speaker 2: But you know, if you've ever gone to Circus Vargas,

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Speaker 2: then you're gonna love what's happening at our live shows.

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Speaker 2: So get over here.

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Speaker 1: Yes that's an old reference, but we need you the

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Speaker 1: over forties who know that reference.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, Chen naxers in above, Circus Vargas, Circus Vargas,

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Speaker 2: fucking remember Circus, Remember, And it would just be like

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Speaker 2: a gigantic elephant and the commercial like their foot came

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Speaker 2: toward the camera.

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Speaker 1: You can't do that anymore.

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Speaker 2: You can't abuse the most beautiful, sensitive animal on the

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Speaker 2: planet anymore. It's for the best.

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Speaker 1: It's probably for the best, and that's why we're going

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Speaker 1: on tour. It's because you can abuse us, yes, as

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Speaker 1: much as you want, but leave the.

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Speaker 2: Elephants alone and we're not going to say it again.

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Speaker 1: No, we won't go to my favorite murder dot com

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Speaker 1: slash Live.

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Speaker 2: Get your tickets and find out if I think if

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Speaker 2: you go to my favorite murder dot com, it'll let

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Speaker 2: you know where to go for those tickets. Just in case.

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Speaker 1: But what if they don't know.

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Speaker 2: No, No, you're right, that's the exact address. But I'm

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Speaker 2: just saying I think that that landing page is going

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Speaker 2: to direct you as well. You don't have to remember it. No,

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Speaker 2: just in case. Should we do a little business about

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Speaker 2: our network? Sure, yeah, do it.

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Speaker 1: We have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media.

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Speaker 2: There's some info. This is some very exciting breaking news

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Speaker 2: because everyone loves a Knicktery MFM an I made and

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Speaker 2: he is back with his brand new episode called crow Omen.

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Speaker 2: It's based on Georgia's story about finding a crow in

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Speaker 2: her pool from MFM episode forty four Cops of Trees.

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Speaker 2: And please, all you Day one listeners keep your eyes

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Speaker 2: out because there is a Vince cameo in this Nick

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Speaker 2: Terry video.

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Speaker 1: I love when there's an MFM animated Vince cameo because

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Speaker 1: Nick Terry gets Vince's beard and he's like a Calico

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Speaker 1: cat Beard.

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Speaker 2: And he gets it so spot on. Yes, I love it.

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Speaker 2: He's such a good artist. It's such a good episode.

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Speaker 2: Do you show up as a witch.

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Speaker 1: It's just like so fucking funny.

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Speaker 2: It has everything everything. I did have the idea the

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Speaker 2: other day where I was like, what if Nick Terry

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Speaker 2: made the before the show starts, let's all go to

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Speaker 2: the lobby video, but we make a new version of it.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: I was going to pitch up preview of like video

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Speaker 1: and shots and stuff like that of my favorite murder.

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Speaker 1: But Nick Terry, Yes, I get great.

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Speaker 2: Some sort of Nick Terry like yeah, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: And then we get him to do a spoof of

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Speaker 2: Nicole Kidman like heartbreak feels good in a place like

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Speaker 2: I mean, like we could just go to town and

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Speaker 2: be like, oh my god, big shows Kitman.

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Speaker 1: What are we talking about the way she was like

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Speaker 1: jumping for joy when she divorced, Like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what which Nicole Kidman you're referring to the list.

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Speaker 2: That'd be really good.

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Speaker 1: That's good, Nick, we should do it now.

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Speaker 2: Nick, why isn't the red fue pull up? Pick up

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Speaker 2: that hot up phone? Ohone? Okay, while you're on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: We've also got full episodes of Buried Bones, This Podcast

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Speaker 1: Will Kill You, and My Favorite Murder. So go check

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Speaker 1: that out at YouTube dot com, slash exactly right Media,

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Speaker 1: please and thank you, and you go first this week, right,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. Okay, So for my story, we

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Speaker 1: are firmly in the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 2: Oh your favorite, I mean released favorite. I did some

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Speaker 2: good work back then.

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Speaker 1: I feel it was the best of times and the

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Speaker 1: very very worst off you and twenty nine year old

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Speaker 1: Anne Marie Fahey was smart, vibrant, and she was going places.

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Speaker 1: But behind this she was caught up in a secret

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Speaker 1: relationship with a man who was respected and powerful, but

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Speaker 1: underneath he was hiding something dark, and his actions sent

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Speaker 1: shockwaves through multiple interconnected small communities in none other than Delaware.

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Speaker 1: We've ever done a story from Delaware before.

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Speaker 2: No, I honestly thought you're gonna say DC.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because it sounds like Shander Levy. Yes it's not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it totally has whispers of that. It's like

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Speaker 2: a parallel crime.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but no, Delaware, Delaware, DC's sister city.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is bust through two thousand people are furious

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Speaker 2: that you just said that.

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Speaker 1: This isn't just a story of a missing woman. It's

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Speaker 1: a story about power corruption and how far someone will

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Speaker 1: go to protect their image. And we got so many

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Speaker 1: emails to our email account from Roderino's about this story.

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Speaker 1: Because Delaware is in this area, specifically in Wilmington, is

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Speaker 1: such a tight knit community. Someone said, like it's the

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Speaker 1: song for cheers, every it's the same thing. Everyone knows

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Speaker 1: your name, everyone knows everything, like everyone's up in each

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Speaker 1: other business. It's a little big city kind of a thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so this is like everyone from Delaware's hometown, like what

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Speaker 1: got them into true crimes? And it's really heartbreaking. The

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Speaker 1: main source for this story is a book by Anne

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Speaker 1: Rule that's right, called and Never Let Her Go?

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Speaker 2: Do you sometimes get upset that we are psychically connected?

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Speaker 2: Because I do where always knew exactly who you were

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Speaker 2: about to say, Stephen King, I mean, there's no and

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Speaker 2: you're not some other author? Who else?

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Speaker 1: The rest of the sources going to be found in

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Speaker 1: the show notes. But also there is a two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one mini series about this case called and Never

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Speaker 1: Let Her Go, starring Mark Harmon as the main dude.

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Speaker 2: I bet she've seen it and.

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Speaker 1: MRC Carmon is like the buttoned up suit and tie,

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Speaker 1: older man, sexy, older man guy.

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Speaker 2: He's the sister of ncis yeah. And summer School, Oh

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Speaker 2: that's okay. Oh, summer School's full range on summer range.

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Speaker 1: And then the woman who plays Anne Marie Fahy is

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Speaker 1: the actress Catherine Morris, and I was like, who, and

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Speaker 1: then I look it up and she's like, she's in everything.

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Speaker 1: The show Cold Case. Did you ever watch that?

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Speaker 2: The blonde?

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Speaker 1: She is the main character in that. And I see

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Speaker 1: her face on a regular basis because every time I

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Speaker 1: google Cold Case to like, look at the Cold Case news, oh,

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Speaker 1: that fucking show comes up first, So I see her

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Speaker 1: face every day. Yes, and she's been in Murder she

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Speaker 1: wrote twice. She's been in Silk Stocking. She's been in

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Speaker 1: Death of a Cheerleader, that one for TV movie. So

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Speaker 1: like she's been in all the things.

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Speaker 2: She is the female Mark Harmon. Turns out they just

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Speaker 2: and then now it's two powers meeting. I have to

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Speaker 2: say this too. The second you said the disappearance of

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Speaker 2: Anne Marie Fayhey, the name Anne Marie Fayhee is such

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Speaker 2: a that's my cousin. That's my amory to me, being

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Speaker 2: irish sometimes feels like a small town because everyone has

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Speaker 2: the same lilt, the same thing, and you can kind

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Speaker 2: of like I can see her feel her. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna start on Saturday, June twenty ninth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six, and we're in Willington, Delaware, and a thirty

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Speaker 1: year old man named Mike Scanlon is supposed to have

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Speaker 1: dinner with his twenty nine year old girlfriend Anne Marie Fahey,

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Speaker 1: along with her brother Robert and his family, but Ann

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Speaker 1: Marie never shows up to meet Mike to head over

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Speaker 1: to dinner. Anne Marie works as the scheduling secretary for

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Speaker 1: the governor of Delaware, a Democrat named Thomas Carper. She's

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Speaker 1: worked for him since he was a congressman, and she

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Speaker 1: is like political and going places and really passionate about it.

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Speaker 1: I read this one little detail and like almost made

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Speaker 1: me cry. She keeps a collection of her rabby childhood

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Speaker 1: stuffed animals at her apartment and they all have women's

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Speaker 1: rights buttons pinned on their lapel, like pinned.

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Speaker 2: On them because that's like the generations, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean. It's like, here's me as a kid. Then

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Speaker 2: here's me as like teenager getting older.

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Speaker 1: Here's what I'm passionate about.

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Speaker 2: And I'm a woman in the world and I to

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Speaker 2: understand what I'm up against.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just kind of like it's just I

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Speaker 1: see that person so well based on that one little detail.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: So, Anne Marie, who most people call Annie, is one

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Speaker 1: of six siblings and a close family, which is also

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Speaker 1: very involved in the tight knit Rish American community in Wilmington.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing there. I dated a guy from Wilmington,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know anything about it except they eat scrapple,

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Speaker 1: a lot scrapple.

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Speaker 2: Scrapple. Yeah, what's that like a nice hash with your eggs?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely no, it's like a spam toast. I'm gonna get

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Speaker 1: yelled at for this.

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Speaker 2: Spam toast, like avocado toast, but spam.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like spam, like a chopped up meat,

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Speaker 1: A lot of chopped up meat.

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Speaker 2: Let's like guess other even worse stuff so that people

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Speaker 2: get angry and angrier and write in more and more

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Speaker 2: about what scrapple is.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a cousin of spam.

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Speaker 2: Okay, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: I don't even need to say that. I know you

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Speaker 1: fucking will, and I appreciate it. Annie is the baby

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Speaker 1: of the family. She has four brothers and one sister,

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Speaker 1: so they're all a little older when she's born, so

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Speaker 1: of course he're super protective over little Annie. Annie's mother, Kathleen,

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Speaker 1: had died of lung cancer when she was only nine

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Speaker 1: years old, and her father, Robert, is never the same

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Speaker 1: after this. He struggles with alcoholism, he stops being able

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Speaker 1: to take care of the family. Some of the older kids,

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Speaker 1: who are now young adults at this point, step in

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Speaker 1: to take care of Annie, and they do their best

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Speaker 1: while they're putting themselves through school. Almost all of the

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Speaker 1: older Faihy kids work at a pub, the local pub

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Speaker 1: called O Friels, owned by their close family friends. So

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Speaker 1: it is small town small town.

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Speaker 2: Also, that's just the tragic. Mom dying of cancer when

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Speaker 2: you're nine years old is like the most painful.

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Speaker 1: Thing, absolutely, and then the dad loses it. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like he was not able to pull it together. He

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Speaker 1: finally loses the family home when Annie is fifteen, and

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Speaker 1: so he moves into an apartment and Annie, who's an

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Speaker 1: athlete and a great student, winds up living with the

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Speaker 1: family that she babysits for in order.

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Speaker 2: To stay in her high school oh, because she doesn't

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Speaker 2: want to be out of the district.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And they adore her, they consider her part of

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Speaker 1: the family. But she's just not totally comfortable, you know,

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Speaker 1: living there.

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Speaker 2: She just feels weird. You're a guest your whole life totally.

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Speaker 2: That's awful.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And so that arrangement ends towards the end of

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Speaker 1: high school. And at that point Annie briefly moves back

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Speaker 1: in with her dad and then lives with her two

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Speaker 1: eldest brothers. She's also working in a restaurant and is

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Speaker 1: essentially like a self sufficient adult even though she's just seventeen.

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Speaker 2: It's like that take care of yourself because you have to.

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Speaker 2: You have to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And she actually fucking thrives and makes it. She

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Speaker 1: graduates from high school, goes on to college. She initially

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Speaker 1: flourishes in college and then struggles with depression and has

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Speaker 1: to take a break, but she gets therapy and graduates.

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Speaker 1: She does struggle with anorexia as well, as so many

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Speaker 1: young women do. The fay He kids bolstered by that

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Speaker 1: great community that the other part of had all managed

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Speaker 1: to do well in school, get good jobs, and generally

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Speaker 1: make nice lives for themselves. Like they beat the fucking

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Speaker 1: odds and they really it was great.

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Speaker 2: They really went for it, probably because they have community.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like it seems like it's a very helpful thing. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's big. Like there's a family that's like, please come

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Speaker 2: and live with us. Yeah, this is happening to you.

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Speaker 1: Or like having other adults to count on when you're

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Speaker 1: a kid who can't count on your parents is just

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Speaker 1: a huge part of it. Yeah, of like making it.

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Speaker 1: Back in nineteen ninety six, when Annie goes missing, it's

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Speaker 1: the last wee of Delaware's legislative session, so at first

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Speaker 1: Annie's brother and boyfriend think it's possible that she had

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Speaker 1: been caught up working late that she was supposed to

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Speaker 1: meet them for dinner. It's normal for staffers in the

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Speaker 1: Governor's office to spend the night working at crunch times

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Speaker 1: like this. But then at nine pm, Mike, the boyfriend

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Speaker 1: calls Annie's older sister, who's very concerned right off the bat,

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Speaker 1: and she starts calling Annie's friends, and one of the

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Speaker 1: friends who work with her says that she's not working late,

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Speaker 1: so she is just missing. And Mike had driven past

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Speaker 1: Annie's apartment earlier in the day before they were supposed

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Speaker 1: to meet to go to dinner and had seen her

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Speaker 1: car there, and it's still there, even though Annie isn't

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Speaker 1: picking up the phone in her apartment. Annie's landlady says

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Speaker 1: she hasn't seen her in the last two days. No

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Speaker 1: one's really talked to her. Basically, they realized no one's

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Speaker 1: heard from her since Thursday, the twenty seventh, and now

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Speaker 1: it's Saturday. So the landlady lets them into the apartment.

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Speaker 1: And it's really out of character the way her apartment

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Speaker 1: is left. It's really strange for her because she's very

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Speaker 1: neat and organized. She's so neat and organized that she

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Speaker 1: stacks her pennies so that each coin has Lincoln's profile

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Speaker 1: facing in the same direction, which I'm just picturing Vince

359
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 1: like he has to have his bills facing the same

360
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Speaker 1: way and in the right order, and he's really precise

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Speaker 1: about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because when you are a child and you grew

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Speaker 2: up in this situation where things are out of your

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Speaker 2: control all of the time, you learn to get some

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Speaker 2: control in the places that you can get.

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Speaker 1: It totally, totally She also never lets trash sit in

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Speaker 1: her apartment, always taking smaller bags out whenever she leaves.

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Speaker 1: But when they get into her apartment today, there's rotting

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Speaker 1: produce all over the kitchen counters because she hadn't put

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Speaker 1: her food away, her groceries away in the kitchen, so

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Speaker 1: there's like a rotting smell, which is so not like her.

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Speaker 1: They also find leftovers from a restaurant in Philadelphia called

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Speaker 1: Panorama that are in the fridge. They don't look super old,

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Speaker 1: but they are dry, so they're not like super recent leftovers,

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Speaker 1: so they've definitely been sitting there for a few days.

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Speaker 1: Mike says he and Annie had not eaten there together.

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia is about forty minute drive from Wilmington. There's other

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Speaker 1: weird stuff in the kitchen. There's samples of prescription medications

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Speaker 1: scattered around and packages of food on the counter but

380
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 1: not put away. Annie's purse is also in the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: Her wallet is there with cash in it, but her

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Speaker 1: keys are missing. Her house and car keys are missing.

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Speaker 1: Other than that, the apartment looks mostly the way Annie

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Speaker 1: would leave it. A couple of small things are different. It's

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Speaker 1: a small apartment, modestly furnished, but decorated with Annie's little touches.

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Speaker 1: As I said, she keeps her stuffed animals with those

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Speaker 1: pins on them. So at midnight everyone's worried. Annie's sister

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Speaker 1: calls the police, and once they eventually get there, one

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Speaker 1: of Annie's friends mentions that she has unheard messages on

390
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Speaker 1: her answering machine. Or there's no cell phones, there's a

391
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Speaker 1: blinking answering machine. They listen to the messages, which are

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Speaker 1: almost entirely from everyone in the room, but all of

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Speaker 1: them are from Thursday afternoon on, so she hadn't listened

394
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Speaker 1: to them, which is very unlike Annie. She always listens

395
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Speaker 1: to her messages and calls right back. So Annie's sister

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Speaker 1: Catherine then shows the police something she had found before

397
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Speaker 1: the police arrived. She'd been looking through the letters and

398
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Speaker 1: cards in Annie's drawers and found a letter that ends

399
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: with quote, all I want to do is make you

400
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,640
Speaker 1: happy and be with you. I love you end quote.

401
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,960
Speaker 1: It's not signed, but it's on a letter head that

402
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,439
Speaker 1: says from the desk of Thomas Capano. So that is

403
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Speaker 1: here is Mark Harmon right? Okay, the name Tom Capano

404
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 1: is familiar to Kathleen, the sister she knows of him.

405
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,840
Speaker 1: He's a prominent lawyer and political advisor from a prominent

406
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 1: real estate family. But she's weirded out by this letter, obviously,

407
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 1: both because of the way it ends and because she, Kathleen,

408
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 1: is briefly mentioned in it. So it's a long letter

409
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 1: that talks about Annie's family with a lot of familiarity,

410
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 1: as if he and Annie have talked a lot, and

411
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Speaker 1: she's never even heard of like this dude in relation

412
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Speaker 1: to Annie.

413
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Speaker 2: Right, she doesn't know him personally.

414
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tom is very involved in politics. He's worked as

415
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 1: a legal counsel for a previous governor, not the one

416
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 1: Annie worked for, and is a political consultant. Tom's father

417
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,680
Speaker 1: is a very successful real estate developer, and Tom's a

418
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:09,199
Speaker 1: very successful lawyer. But he has three younger brothers, Louis, Joey,

419
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,040
Speaker 1: and Jerry, and none of them are nearly as buttoned

420
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,880
Speaker 1: up and professional as Tom seemingly is. They've all been

421
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: involved in various degrees of crime in their personal lives

422
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,199
Speaker 1: and professional lives. Jerry, as Anne Rule puts it, quote,

423
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 1: seem to care for nothing but guns, shark fishing, big

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00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,399
Speaker 1: game hunting, and girls with big hair and clothes that

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00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,800
Speaker 1: fit like a second skin end quote.

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Speaker 2: That's an rule for you. She's going to say it.

427
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,719
Speaker 2: She's not going to spare anyone's feelings. Can you imagine

428
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,280
Speaker 2: if that was, like, your big interest is shark fishing? No,

429
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 2: leave them alone, get away from big games.

430
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 1: Not it with the elephants and the sharks. So Louie

431
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 1: and Joey, two of the brothers work in the family

432
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,479
Speaker 1: real estate development business. Jerry is the loosest canon he

433
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,359
Speaker 1: can't be in an office setting and me neither, and

434
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 1: starts a landscaping business and has a lot of client

435
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 1: overlap with his brothers. Tom also has an older sister, Marian,

436
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 1: who's played by Olympia Ducaucus Buckin' legend my favorite, such

437
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: a legend, and she's completely excluded from the family business.

438
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,679
Speaker 1: She's supposed to get into allowance from her brothers, but

439
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 1: they just always fight instead. All this to say Tom

440
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: has a very good reputation, but his family does not.

441
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,640
Speaker 1: When Tom and Annie meet in nineteen ninety three, three

442
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: years before her disappearance, he's about forty three and she

443
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 1: is about twenty six. This is years before she meets Mike,

444
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 1: her new boyfriend. Tom is married at the time and

445
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: has four daughters, not great, but he also has a

446
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 1: mistress named Debbie who he's been seeing for years. Annie

447
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 1: and Tom meet at a political fundraiser and have a

448
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 1: lot of people in common, including those close family friends

449
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,479
Speaker 1: who own the pub, because they're also very involved in

450
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: local politics. So they kind of just meet and click.

451
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: And they're both from big Delaware families, from adjacent immigrant communities.

452
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 1: She's Irish and he's Italian, and it's just like this

453
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 1: in Deer community, so they kind of.

454
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 2: You can hear the accordium music playing in the background.

455
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 1: Yes, So Annie and Tom have a work lunch together

456
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 1: after they meet, but quickly after that they start having

457
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 1: dinner dates. Annie and her friends are all just starting out,

458
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 1: not making much money, and Tom takes her to nice

459
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: restaurants gives her that access to the kind of life

460
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 1: she hasn't been able to have before. Yeah, you know, grooming,

461
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: that's what they call it.

462
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

463
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: For the next couple of years, Tom and Annie are

464
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: sort of on and off again, and in between Annie

465
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: dates other people. During this whole period, Annie struggles with

466
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 1: her mental health, particularly with her anorexia, and she experiences

467
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 1: a huge setback when her psychologist is killed in a

468
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:44,439
Speaker 1: drunk driving accident. Yeah, it takes Annie a while to

469
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: find a new one, and in this period she leans

470
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: on Tom a lot more. All this time, she writes

471
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: in a diary documenting her relationship with Tom and other

472
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: things going on in her life. By nineteen ninety five,

473
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: when she's twenty eight, she confides in her work friend

474
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: Jill that Tom seems like he's trying to control her.

475
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he's in his late forties, and

476
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 1: he's a professional, and he's married and he has children.

477
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: It's just that thing that you can picture that happens

478
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: all the fucking time.

479
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 2: Right, because it's like that is part of why he's

480
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 2: doing it. You know, he's showing himself. But then he can't.

481
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 2: He has to control her because if she steps out

482
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,959
Speaker 2: a line for one second, he's got all these things

483
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 2: at risk.

484
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: A lot of things could go wrong.

485
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 2: That's not in no way am I saying that he

486
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,479
Speaker 2: was right for them. It's disgusting and weird. So he's

487
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: starting to try to control her.

488
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: He makes her interview for a job being a personal

489
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: assistant to his brother Louis, the sleazy real estate developer,

490
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 1: and it's clear that Tom just wants to keep Annie

491
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: close and under his control. Thankfully, Annie doesn't take the job,

492
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: but Tom tries to control how she dresses. He tries

493
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: to isolate her from her friends and becomes upset when

494
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: he thinks she's spending too much time with them. It's

495
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: all just it's textbook control abuse.

496
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 2: Why are all the boyfriends that are so terrible the

497
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: ones that have like sick girlfriends. It's like, can you

498
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 2: just do this to one person and then hang it up?

499
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: Get yourself a therapist, seriously, Jesus.

500
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: He also repeatedly tells her that they should end the

501
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 1: relationship and then abruptly changes his mind. And there are

502
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: times when Annie also tries to end a relationship, but

503
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 1: he always guilds her into changing her mind. Around this time,

504
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: in September of nineteen ninety five, Tom and his wife separate.

505
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: But this is also.

506
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: When Annie meets Mike, and it's actually the governor of

507
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: Delaware who sets the two of them up, which is like,

508
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: you legally have to get married now. The governor of

509
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: Delaware is like, hey, I got a nice guy for you.

510
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: Have you ever seen or heard of the Governor of Delaware? No,

511
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: because he's they're not real. I don't think they're real.

512
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: Mike is kind and he you know, he's the same

513
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 1: age as Annie, and they start seriously dating in October.

514
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: And at this same time, Tom is telling both Annie

515
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: and his other mistress that he has left his wife

516
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: for them. Okay, you know, got it. The women don't

517
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: know about each other. Annie tells Tom she's seeing someone

518
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 1: and wants to break it off, and Tom starts calling

519
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 1: her twenty times a day. He threatens to tell Mike,

520
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: the new boyfriend, about their relationship, even though it seems

521
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: like they're not really seeing each other anymore. On one occasion,

522
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: he bursts into her apartment and gathers every item he's.

523
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: Up given to her.

524
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: And at this point, in addition to promising to Mary Debbie,

525
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: the mistress who predates Annie, Tom is also having a

526
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: different affair with a woman from work, surprising to nobody.

527
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: So he's just fucking mound total three now because the

528
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: wife has.

529
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: The wife was probably like enough already, Yeah.

530
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: Right, So Spring goes better for Annie. She finds a

531
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: new therapist, she keeps seeing Mike, and Tom seems to

532
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: be busy with his multiple other women. He's mostly leading

533
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: Annie alone, but at the end of April, he turns

534
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: up again, sending a ton of emails from his work

535
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: email to her. He starts out by a listening sympathy

536
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,959
Speaker 1: by talking about one of his daughter's health issues, and

537
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,719
Speaker 1: soon he's sending little jokes. He just kind of reels

538
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: her back in offering to pay for a new windshield

539
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: that crack that she needs help with and is stressed

540
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: about just doing those things.

541
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like White nighting right wherever he can exactly.

542
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: And despite progress in therapy, and he's at a point

543
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: where she's really struggling with her eating disorder. And on

544
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: June twelfth, about two weeks before her disappearance, she faints

545
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: at work. I've done that, Mike. The boyfriend is aware

546
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: of her history of anorexia, but she still doesn't want

547
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: him to know how bad it is at the moment.

548
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: I've totally done that before. Where I used to have

549
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: an eating disorder, I don't anymore. In my faint Yeah.

550
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, Also that's talk about a control issue that's

551
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 2: like eating disorders totally. So it's kind of, you know,

552
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 2: it's like bad to worse for her because it's like

553
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: she already has this issue. Yeah, and then the people

554
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 2: that she has in her life, right, aren't the people

555
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: that you want helping you in that home? Absolutely?

556
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: And so she's too like embarrassed to tell her new

557
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: boyfriend that this is going on right now, and so

558
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: she calls Tom. He knows all about it, he's been

559
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: there for years, and he picks up the phone and

560
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: he drives her home after she thinks so Tom interprets

561
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: this as Annie choosing him over Mike, so he keeps

562
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: contacting her after this. He offers to buy her things,

563
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: she keeps saying no. He offers to get the cracked

564
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: windshield fixed, and she refuses, and she does so very

565
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: politely in emails, but she's still firmly refusing to accept

566
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: anything from him, like it wasn't an invitation to come

567
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: back in her life. Then at the end of June,

568
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: he invites her out to dinner with him on the

569
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: Thursday night that she was last seen. Annie doesn't reply

570
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: in the email, so if she does accept, it seems

571
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: like she did so over the phone, so there's no

572
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: record of it, and she doesn't tell anyone about the

573
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 1: invitation or whether or not she accepted it.

574
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: I hate that we've talked about that scenario before, where

575
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: you kind of paint yourself into this corner of no

576
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 2: one knows where you are because you think, well, for

577
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: whatever reason that you think that, it's I hate that. Yeah,

578
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 2: just tell someone.

579
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: So with Annie missing, her close friends confirmed the relationship

580
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: with Tom to the police and tell them that Annie

581
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: had complained about him being controlling. There's more correspondence from

582
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: Tom on his firm stationery. Annie had her detailed diary

583
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: as well that lays out the whole story of their relationship.

584
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: One of the most recent entries talks about breaking it

585
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 1: off and says, quote, I finally have brought closure to

586
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: Tom Capano. What a controlling, manipulative, insecure, jealous maniac end quote.

587
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

588
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: So now the police are trying to confirm with Annie

589
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: went to dinner with Tom on that Thursday, June twenty seventh,

590
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: last time she was seen. It seems that way because

591
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: of the leftovers that were from the Philadelphia restaurant in

592
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: her fridge. It's a place they had gone to before together.

593
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: Tom had told his longtime mistress Debbie that he had

594
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: plans in Philadelphia that evening, but that he would probably

595
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: be done by nine p thirty. So it seems like

596
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: the plans were with Annie and then he was going

597
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: to go to his mistress's house. At three thirty am

598
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: on Sunday morning, the thirtieth, two detectives knock on Tom's door.

599
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: Tom says he's aware that Annie is missing. He tells

600
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: the police that the last time he saw her was

601
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: that Thursday night. Confirms they went to dinner and that

602
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: he drove her, that they stopped briefly at his apartment

603
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: to pick up some groceries he had bought for Annie,

604
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: and then went back to her apartment. He says he

605
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: put the grocery bag down on the counter, gave her

606
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: another gift, and used the bathroom and left and that

607
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: was the last time he saw her was when he

608
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: left her at the apartment. The detective asked if they

609
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: can look around the house, but Tom says that his

610
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: daughters are asleep upstairs and doesn't want them to get

611
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: scared and refuses to let them in. And they don't

612
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: have a warrant, and so they come back the next morning,

613
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: and so who knows what evidence they would have found

614
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: if they had insisted on coming in or had a warrant.

615
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: And when they do come back at ten am, Tom

616
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: isn't there. They finally track him down. He takes them

617
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: back to the house to look around for not doing

618
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: a full search, but the house looks very clean.

619
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: It is what they say.

620
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: The detectives are bracing for an uphill battle and for

621
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: a publicity. Tom is a well known and well respected

622
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: lawyer with a lot of connections. His brothers are known

623
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: to be in trouble with the law from time to time,

624
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: but not Tom. So everyone is pretty shocked about this. Actually,

625
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: there's some ritorinos who wrote in that said their dads

626
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: used to like hang out with him, like in groups

627
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: with him sometimes, and everyone was very surprised that he

628
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: was implicated.

629
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, he's the good.

630
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: Boy right on the outside. He kept a shit together well.

631
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: And also that's the ultimate position to be in, because

632
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: if you're the one that gets your homework done and

633
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: goes to school and becomes a lawyer, and then you

634
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: have these kind of like dirt baggy brothers to a degree,

635
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: we don't know these people, but you always look good

636
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 2: no matter what, and you can always make yourself look

637
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 2: good because you're just playing that you're playing your position essentially, right.

638
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: So at this point, the Fay He siblings are all

639
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: working hard to get Annie's disappearance out to the press,

640
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: and she's on the front page of all the local newspapers.

641
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: It becomes a huge story because stuff like this does

642
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: not happen in Wilmington or in Delaware at all. Of Friels,

643
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: the pub that was the hub the Faihe's community, hangs

644
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: a banner with a photo of Annie advertising a ten

645
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: thousand dollars reward for information leading to her recovery, which

646
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: in today's money ten thousand dollars this is eighty seven

647
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: ninety six, ninety six. Yeah, it's less than you think

648
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 1: it would be twenty eight thousand.

649
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: That's a way less.

650
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: Bipontroda I know. Annie's therapist comes forward and tells police

651
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: that she's worried that Tom has abducted Annie, because Annie

652
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: had brought this up as something she worried about in therapy,

653
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: him abducting her. She was specifically worried that Tom would

654
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: hire people to do it. They discussed this at their

655
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: very last session before Annie disappeared, and she said that

656
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: she urged Annie to report him to the Attorney General's office.

657
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: Some people believe that Annie did threaten him that night

658
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: to do that, and that is what maybe set Tom off.

659
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, I mean that's horrifying,

660
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: and it just makes me think of every that's like

661
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: every part of law and order when they go to

662
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: the therapist and they're like I can't tell you, and

663
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: they're like, so one could be dead. It's like to

664
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: get that therapist, who I'm sure was very motivated to

665
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: be like, I need to tell you what the last

666
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: thing she told me, right, because it's exactly what's happening

667
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: right now. Horrifying.

668
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: As investigators learned more about Tom, they learned that he's

669
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: had other affairs and has a history of becoming threatening

670
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: and possessive. In one case, in the late seventies, long

671
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: before Annie, he'd been having an affair with an engaged

672
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: woman while he was newly married. He showed up at

673
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: her bachelorette party and at the wedding and wrote her

674
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: obsessive letters for months. So he was just unhinged.

675
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, he couldn't stop. Well again because it's control, right,

676
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: he's like a stalker.

677
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: Then he tried to hire a man to beat her

678
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: up or hit her with a car, specifically requesting these

679
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: two things, but the man who tried to hire, went

680
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: to the FBI with tapes of Tom's phone calls.

681
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: I love when hit men do that. It's not that common,

682
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: I don't think, but like every once in a while

683
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: they'll be like, you know.

684
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: What this is, this is against my KHOTO con and

685
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: I'm a hit man, and like who the fuck are you?

686
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's terrifying, but also just that ideas like hiring

687
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: someone to hit them with a car. Yeah, disgusting, it's awful.

688
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: But authorities essentially at that time give Tom a slap

689
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: on the wrist and send him on his way.

690
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: Wow. I know.

691
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: The FBI is called into Annie's case at the personal

692
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: request of Governor Carper, who's Annie's boss, and in July

693
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: they do an extensive search of Tom's house. They find

694
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: out that Tom had replaced this is just like textbook,

695
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: replace the carpet and the sofa in his living room

696
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: the weekend Annie disappeared.

697
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god. He also had gone to a.

698
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: Drugstore and bought a cleaning product with this fucking name

699
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: that is just are you ready for this. It's called

700
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: Carbona Blood and Milk remover.

701
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: Oh sir, that's a confession. Yeah. At the Ace Hardware

702
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: but why milk? Carbona.

703
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: I want to ask the Carbona family, like, can you

704
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: just do blood?

705
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 2: I wonder if milk stinks? And even when you get

706
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 2: it up, like it still keeps stinking. If it's in there,

707
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: you're a farm girl. There, a farm girl, And I've

708
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: dropped many a latte in my car, so.

709
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: Lates, samel in the carts sour.

710
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: You're just like it's fine. I like vanilla lattes. And

711
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: then like a week later, like, why does everything turn

712
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: out this way?

713
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: You explained? Sorry, Carbona family, don't at me. I get

714
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: you now They're.

715
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: Like this, do you understand what milk is like? In cope? Well, blood, milk, blood,

716
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: it's all in there.

717
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: The search also turns up bloodstains on the woodwork in

718
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: the living room and on a radiator and on the

719
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: door of a laundry closet like blood and you're a yeah.

720
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: So when the cops knocked, he was standing there, right.

721
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: If they had just walked in and looked at that room,

722
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: something might have been there.

723
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they didn't have a warrant, but they could

724
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: have maybe gotten one. But also he was political, so

725
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: maybe it would have been impossible. Who knows, you know,

726
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: it's just a missed opportunity. But they don't have a

727
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: body to match the blood to, right because Annie is missing.

728
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: So the agents learned that Annie donated blood very regularly,

729
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: they locate they track down her last donation right before

730
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: it gets shipped overseas to test it. Wow, and the

731
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: nick of time and the blood is found to be

732
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: a match. That is some detective.

733
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: Work, right and also fully makes up for having to

734
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: stand at that doorway not do anything that might have

735
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: been the FBI and then that might have been But

736
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: thank god, yes, because also that kind of thing, if

737
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 2: it is that overt and horrible of a murder where

738
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: he just killed her in his living room because he

739
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 2: was angry or said everywhere.

740
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's no body. And at the time it

741
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: is very rare for anyone to be arrested, for anyone

742
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: to be tried for murder without a body nineteen ninety six.

743
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: But around this same time when they find all this

744
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: evidence of blood, Tom's brother Jerry Tom and Jerry is

745
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: arrested on drug and weapons charges. And you know what

746
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: happens to like regular criminals, they snitchit exactly. So he's like,

747
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: I'll cooperate with you. To get a better case on

748
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: the shit that I'm in trouble with and essentially completely

749
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: throws his brother under the bus. Oh wow, completely rats

750
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: his brother out.

751
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 2: Wow.

752
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: Louie, one of Tom's older brothers, also winds up cooperating,

753
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: so Jerry and Louie tell police that Tom did kill

754
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: Annie at his own house and that he put her

755
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 1: body in a fishing cooler the day after she was

756
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: last seen. Tom and Jerry used Jerry's boat to go

757
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: about seventy miles off the coast of Stone Harbor, but

758
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: then the cooler wouldn't sink, so instead they wrapped two

759
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: anchors around Annie's body and let her sink into the Atlantic,

760
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: and then they threw the empty cooler into the water.

761
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: And when the story's made public, two fishermen come forward

762
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: saying they had found a cooler in the ocean like

763
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: the one described off the Jersey shore and they had

764
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: used it to store fish. But the cooler is found

765
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: to match the one described, coroborating his story.

766
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure, and I could be wrong with all

767
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: the things we've looked at over the years, but I'm

768
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: pretty sure. I've seen the clip of those fishermen who

769
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: talked to the news. Yeah, because they found that. Because

770
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: it's like they show it like a floating out here

771
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: right in the middle of it whatever. And it is

772
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 2: so disturbing, Like this idea where there are people, as

773
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: we know in this world that if they want you gone,

774
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: you're gone because they know how to do it and

775
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 2: they know those kinds of details.

776
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: It's awful, I imagine. The case goes to trial October

777
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety eight. In court, Tom tells a different

778
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: story than anyone's ever heard before. His brothers have ratted

779
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: him out. He kind of can't fight that, so he

780
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: confirms that he brought Annie to his house after dropping

781
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: the gift and groceries at her house.

782
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 2: Wait, can I guess she did something to him?

783
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: Even worse, the mistress did it. Her name is Debbie.

784
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: I'm not saying her last name because it's just such bullshit.

785
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: He's saying that. Debbie shows up, discovers them together, she's

786
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 1: up set. There's a scuffle and Debbie has a gun

787
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: and he grabs Debbie's arm and the gun goes off.

788
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: That's what he says happened. He admits to hiding Annie's

789
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: body and claims Debbie helped him do it. Debbie testifies too,

790
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: and she vehemently denies being at his house that night,

791
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: although she does say one time Tom had asked her

792
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: to buy a handgun in her name, and she did.

793
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: She says she gave it to him and never saw

794
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: it again. So all she does is fucking point the

795
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 1: finger that he actually has a gun.

796
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 2: Well, she better because she was like, oh no, here's

797
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: who I'm gonna throw under the bus. And she's like

798
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: the one person that actually loved you, that thought this

799
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: was all real and now is finding out you have,

800
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: you know, all these other mistresses and whatever, and you're

801
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 2: gonna blame me. I have shit on you, bro, just

802
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: like when does it? It's craven fucking Mark Harmon.

803
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: Tom is sound guilty at first degree murder, and it's

804
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: the first time in Delaware history that someone is convicted

805
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: of murder in the absence of a body or a

806
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: murder weapon, so they don't have either, but they're still

807
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: able to convict her. At first, Tom is sentenced to death,

808
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: but on one of his appeals, the death sentence is

809
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: overturned since it had been decided by a jury verdict

810
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: that was not unanimous. He is sentenced to life in prison. Instead,

811
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 1: he appeals several more times, and his conviction is affirmed

812
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: each time. Tom dies in prison at the age of

813
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: sixty one in twenty eleven of heart failure. Annie is

814
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: remembered as a bright light in the Wilmington community and

815
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: in brandy Wine Park there's a bench dedicated to her memory.

816
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: O'friel's pub, where all the fay He kids worked and

817
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: where Annie first met Mike closes in two thousand and one,

818
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: but until it does, the banner with Annie's picture advertising

819
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: the reward for information leading to her return remains hanging.

820
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: Oh that kills me.

821
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: And I think there's so many murderinos that started with

822
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: this case from Delaware, so many people wrote them.

823
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just oh they kept a sign,

824
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: I know.

825
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: And that is the story of the murder of Anne

826
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: Marie fahe Loss. Yeah horrible, Yeah, always.

827
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 2: But I mean always, but man, this one. Yeah, okay,

828
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to turn it around. Are you ready?

829
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: I'm so fucking ready.

830
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: Okay, because I was tough. Yeah, but there are good

831
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 2: things that happened in the world. Remember when I'll tell

832
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: you there's a Twitter account called Historic Videos, but then

833
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 2: the handle is history and memes and so that's I

834
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 2: saw this reddit nice three paragraph tweet, and I was like,

835
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: I've never heard this story, and I think other people

836
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: should know this story, and especially you and I. You

837
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 2: being a native of La, me being a longtime citizen.

838
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 2: If you live in LA or you watch the Kardashians,

839
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 2: you know what a big part of the culture here

840
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: Armenians are. It's apparently the largest concentration of Armenians outside

841
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: of Armenia is in Glendale, which is a suburb of

842
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: LA And so when I I started reading this, I

843
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 2: was like, oh, well, this is great. There's lots of

844
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: people who are going to like this story. So if

845
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 2: you don't know, Armenia is a small, landlocked country about

846
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: the size of Maryland. I would wonder how it competes

847
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: with Delaware, but don't know anything about our states. It's

848
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 2: a beautiful country and it's actually filled with beautiful lakes

849
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 2: and waterfalls and mineral springs. But the history in Armenia

850
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: is incredibly heavy. In nineteen fifteen, toward the end of

851
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: the Ottoman Empire, around one point five million Armenians were

852
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 2: murdered in a devastating state sanctioned genocide, which is why

853
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 2: there are so many Armenian immigrants in La So the

854
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 2: story I'm about to tell you it takes place sixty

855
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: years after that, when Armenia is under Soviet rule. It

856
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: is a late September evening in nineteen seventy six, the

857
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: workdays coming to an end, and dozens of Communers are

858
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 2: making their way across Urevon, which is the capital of

859
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: Armenia and the largest city in the whole country. It's

860
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 2: a typical rush hour, but it's interrupted by the sound

861
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: of screeching metal and then a big crashing boom, and

862
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: people scream in terror as they watch a packed trolleybus

863
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: veer off its tracks along Lake Yerevon, a huge reservoir

864
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 2: in the city. Later on, they'll say that per investigation,

865
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 2: the driver was speeding, but witnesses will actually come forward

866
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: and report that he had been trying to prevent a

867
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: pickpocket from leaving the trolleybus, and so he refused to

868
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: break to let that person off, and then he was

869
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: hit over the head with a metal bar and knocked out.

870
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 2: So then the trolleybus not only didn't break, but kept speeding,

871
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: and it flies over a curb and then slams nose

872
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 2: first into the concrete perimeter that runs around the reservoir.

873
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 2: It flips a few times and then it rolls into

874
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 2: Lake Yerevon and there are nearly one hundred people school kids,

875
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 2: factory workers, housewives, retirees that are trapped inside and seconds

876
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: from drowning in this very cold lakewater. But they are

877
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: not helpless because one particularly capable bystander immediately springs into action.

878
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: Kind of this is the story of a truly heroic

879
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: Armenian athlete named Chavarge Kara Petyon. Yes, have you heard

880
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 2: of this?

881
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: I've read it in the same style that you found

882
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: it in on like random hontry. Interesting history, right, Yes.

883
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: So the main source used in today's story is a

884
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen grant Land article by a writer named Karl

885
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: Schrek entitled The Plunge, and the rest of the sources

886
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 2: are on our show notes. So we're going to go

887
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: back twenty years before the crash I just described to

888
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty three, when Chavarsh was born into a working

889
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 2: class Armenian family. His path in life is more or

890
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: less decided for him because his father, Vladimir has dreams

891
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: for his three sons, chavarche Como and anatolely of them

892
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: all becoming world class athletes. It's a partially strategic dream

893
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: that he has because excelling in sports is one of

894
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 2: the few ways Armenians, especially those from humble backgrounds, can

895
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 2: have any kind of upward mobility without drawing too much

896
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 2: attention from Soviet authorities. Sure, so it's like a way

897
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: to get ahead. So Vladimir sciences boys up for gymnastics

898
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: under an incredibly accomplished Armenian athlete and Olympic gold medalist

899
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 2: named Albert Azarian. Immediately, Chavar shows a ton of potential.

900
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 2: He's said to have a quote commanding build, quick reflexes,

901
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: and relentless ambition. It's the commanding build that really, I

902
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: think has gotten you so funny. Definitely a lot of this,

903
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,479
Speaker 2: a lot of muscle muscle flexing. But even with such

904
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 2: raw talent, Chavar's coaches don't think he can make a

905
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: out of gymnastics because he begins training when he's a

906
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 2: little too old in a sport where competitors peek in

907
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: their early teens and he's like in his mid teens.

908
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 2: But nobody wants to see him leave competitive sports because

909
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 2: he's so kind of such a natural, so one coach

910
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 2: suggests he pivots to swimming, and this is out of

911
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 2: left field. As reporter Carl Schrek explains in twenty fourteen quote,

912
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: Armenia is not a nation of swimmers. The country is

913
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 2: home to just a handful of public pools. A few

914
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 2: of Armenia's lakes and rivers are suitable for swimming. The

915
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: president of the Armenia and Swimming Federation estimates that only

916
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: thirty percent of the population knows how to swim wow,

917
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 2: a figure he says has changed little since Soviet times.

918
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: Interesting, I guess if you're landlocked, right, you're not like.

919
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 2: Maybe they do a little more like standing around and

920
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 2: splashing the water up onto themselves in a lake or

921
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 2: a stream. Always nice, But no, they won't get their

922
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 2: face wet like my mom at blue when she would

923
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 2: be like always worrying about her hair and maga. But

924
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: Chavarsh commits himself to the sport, and he eventually joins

925
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 2: a league dedicated to developing professional Soviet swimmers, and sure enough,

926
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: Chavarche is good. He's particularly fast in backstroke and freestyle events,

927
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 2: and he quickly earns a reputation for being one of

928
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 2: Armenia's most promising young swimmers, but over the next several

929
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 2: years he starts to lag behind the other swimmers in

930
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: his age group. It's said that he's as he grows older,

931
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 2: he becomes less flexible, and he just starts having a

932
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: hard time nailing down his stroke technique and that slows

933
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: him down. And then, at just seventeen years old, Chavarche

934
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: is dropped from his swimming league. Of course, this is

935
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 2: a huge gut punch for him. His dreams of becoming

936
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: a champion swimmer are gone. So he hits a bar

937
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 2: that night with a fellow swimmer, presumably to drown of sorrows.

938
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 2: But that same friend happens to be recruiting athletes for

939
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: a finn swimming team. Hmm, know what that is? Luckily

940
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: there's a paragraph right under here that will tell you

941
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 2: fin swimming is pretty much what it sounds like. It's

942
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 2: an event where competitors race one another with fins dropped

943
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 2: to their feet. It might be two fins like scuba divers,

944
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 2: like they wear, or it could be what's called a

945
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 2: quote monofin, which is one big single fin like a

946
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 2: mermaid that you're playing mermaid in the pool.

947
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: I was picturing, like, why would they put a shark

948
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: fin to look like Yeah.

949
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 2: And then they chum the waters. It's really strange.

950
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: It's roleplay. Don't worry about it.

951
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's shark roleplay. So shavarsh is interested and he

952
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like he has any time to waste. So

953
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 2: even though he was drinking a combination of vodka and

954
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 2: beer all afternoon, he says, quote, I took a taxi home,

955
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 2: rested up a bit, and came back for my first workout.

956
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: Okay, he's when you're seventeen, man, you can do fucking anything.

957
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also there's part of it that's like, I

958
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: gotta do this for my entire future. It's not a hobby. Okay,

959
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 2: fair enough. So even for a sea into athlete like

960
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: chiavarch who's been training in gyms and pools since he

961
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 2: was a little kid, finn swimming workouts are next level,

962
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 2: and many of them happen outside of the pool, and

963
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 2: they're geared at body conditioning. To paint a picture, chavarses

964
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 2: training might and tail, running upwards of eighteen miles around

965
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: town with a backpack filled with sand strapped to his back.

966
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: It's the og weighted best. Yes, and here's the og

967
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: or weighted vest. He also might run around with a

968
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: fellow swimmer on his.

969
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: Shoulders waited best Steve, Steve, the weighted best, chicken fighting,

970
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 1: it's all classic training.

971
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: He also climbs hills on his arms.

972
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: Oh fuck army crawling up a hill.

973
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 2: Oh wheelbarrow style, as a teammate holds his leg cute

974
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 2: so he has to there. So they're just trying to

975
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: make It's kind of like Rocky when he fights the

976
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 2: Russian guy, where it's like the workout is insane.

977
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 1: But the Russian guy is the pool.

978
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 2: That's the pool is fighting him. Chavarsh also becomes known

979
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 2: as the guy who jogs with ski boots attached to

980
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: big planks of wood around his neighborhood to strengthen his

981
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 2: ankles and feet. Okay, he's in it, he's showing off.

982
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: He's eighteen at this point, seventeen eighteen. One of the

983
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: most important skills that Chavarsh develops in this training is

984
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 2: breath control. In thin swimming, competitors might use snorkels for

985
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: longer distance races, but in sprints, they typically hold their

986
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: breath the entire time. So according to experts. You can

987
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 2: safely hold your breath for around a minute. Some people

988
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: can go longer, but then you're getting into dangerous territory

989
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 2: where you can actually damage your heart in your brain.

990
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 2: So we don't have an exact number for how long

991
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 2: Chavarche could hold his breath. We know it's several minutes,

992
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: which is pretty unbelievable. Do not try this at home?

993
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: No, I swear I saw recently, like the record just

994
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: got broken for the longest breath holding.

995
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, like some sort of a deep free swim dive

996
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: or something.

997
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: Are you a scientists and you know a lot about it?

998
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: Right in at my favorite murder dot comment tells everything

999
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: about breath holding.

1000
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: I know because I thought there's some people could do

1001
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,360
Speaker 2: like three minutes, yeah or something.

1002
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: But then like I swear recently it was like five minutes,

1003
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: but that doesn't sound right. And then like the damage,

1004
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: that's like.

1005
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 2: The damage unless it just pops you right into being

1006
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: a mermaid. You found an article where it's thirty minutes,

1007
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,959
Speaker 2: forty minutes, no zero.

1008
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: You need to hear we need what do we need

1009
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: breath doctors to tell us all about it? Jesus for

1010
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: a MINIESO.

1011
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 2: My favorite murder also because you're a midsection super wide

1012
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 2: if you can hold your breath for half an hour

1013
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: for fish. Okay, love to discuss breath holding further murdering

1014
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 2: as if you would please engage.

1015
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: Someone at home is like my time to shine. Finally,

1016
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: I've written you ten hometowns of actual true crime, and now.

1017
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 2: It's my cousin's TV who used to hold his breath

1018
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 2: to make himself pass out so that he wouldn't be

1019
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 2: in trouble with my aunt. Okay, so all of this

1020
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: strength training and breath training pays off big time because

1021
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: Chavarsh becomes an excellent in swimmer. He rips through pools

1022
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 2: like a torpedo and he rarely has to surface because

1023
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 2: he can hold his breath for so long. That long

1024
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 2: thirty fucking minutes I mean. But also I wonder if

1025
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: one minute wasn't just a mistype of Maren's and it

1026
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: was supposed to be like fifteen or something, because one

1027
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: minute is I feel like we could do that, no brag.

1028
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: Okay, give me a week and maybe, yeah, we'd have to.

1029
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: Do some exercise. We have to get some bags of

1030
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 2: sand vest for you, Steve, I got Steve the waited

1031
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 2: Vest get up there. So, at just nineteen years old,

1032
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 2: chavarche fulfills a childhood dream. He competes on behalf of

1033
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 2: the Soviet Union in the nineteen seventy two European Championship

1034
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: Games in Moscow, and he walks away with gold medals

1035
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 2: in the fifty and one hundred meter finn swimming sprints

1036
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: and all the glory he could hold. A Soviet magazine writes, quote,

1037
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 2: it's safe to say we'll see this young athlete from

1038
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: Armenia at many more major championships. And chavage does finn

1039
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 2: swim as part of the Soviet team in the next

1040
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: two European Championships seventy three and seventy four. He sets

1041
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 2: world records and takes home a total of eight gold medals.

1042
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 2: But at this high point in his career, when he's

1043
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: only in his early twenties, he's inexplicably dropped by the

1044
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 2: Soviet team. No yeah, the reason why is a mystery

1045
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 2: even today. Chavarsh's best guess is that Soviet sports officials

1046
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: wanted to showcase more Russian athletes for sure on the team,

1047
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 2: but Shavarsha has gotten used to having the carpet pulled

1048
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: from underneath him. Competitive sports are his life and livelihood,

1049
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: so again he refuses to give up. He figures that

1050
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: his best move is to practice harder than ever has before,

1051
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: until he's so singularly impressive in the pool that the

1052
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: Soviets can't help but bring him back to the team.

1053
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 2: And that's what chavar Karapetyan was doing on September sixteenth,

1054
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,800
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six, the day of the trolleybus crash.

1055
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: Gottle's forgot about it.

1056
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: He is now twenty three years old, running near the

1057
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: reservoir on another one of his grueling training sessions, and

1058
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 2: he had already run thirteen miles with forty five pounds

1059
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 2: of sand strapped to his back in a backpack, which.

1060
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: In today's money is like three marathons.

1061
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: I mean that much sand for me would be like

1062
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: three hundred pounds of sand, Like, I can't lift this,

1063
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: And I don't know why you're being so unresented. Seriously.

1064
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 2: He's joined by his brother Como, who's also a competitive

1065
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 2: athlete in swimming and other events. So Chavarche and Como

1066
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 2: hear this crash of the trolleybus as it flies off

1067
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 2: its tracks into the lake, and before Chavarche can even

1068
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 2: figure out what he's doing, he finds himself running in

1069
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 2: the direction of the explosion. Como rushes after him. The

1070
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 2: trolleybus hits the lake bed and sinks quickly, kicking up

1071
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: a cloud of heavy silt, and it ends up resting

1072
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: about fifteen feet underwater. Chavarsh, acting purely on impulse and adrenaline,

1073
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 2: rushes down to the lake, strips to his underwear, throws

1074
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 2: off his backpack, and jumps into the water. Years later,

1075
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 2: his brother Kamo will tell writer Carl Schwak that quote.

1076
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 2: To this day, I ask myself if I had sprinted

1077
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 2: to the scene and hadn't seen Chavarsh in the water,

1078
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,880
Speaker 2: would I have jumped in? The answer is always the same,

1079
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty, fifty to fifty. Maybe I think that's

1080
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:15,760
Speaker 2: really honest.

1081
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, my first instinct wasn't to save people completely.

1082
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: That's what a big deal what my brother did, which

1083
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 2: is really cool, generous, generous. It's autumn and Armenia, so

1084
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 2: it's cold outside and the water's freezing. On top of that,

1085
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: Lake Yerevan is polluted. This reservoir is not a place

1086
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 2: where most people would willingly swim at all, but the

1087
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 2: brothers aren't thinking about that. They can see the trolley

1088
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: pole sticking out of the lake, so they know where

1089
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 2: the trolleybus is underwater. So they dive down and they

1090
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 2: start circling it looking for some sort of entrance that

1091
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 2: they can pull people out of. But all the windows

1092
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 2: and doors are shut, none of them are broken. Only

1093
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 2: seconds have passed since the crash, but already, of course,

1094
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 2: time is running out, and the brothers come back up

1095
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: for air. Chavarsh instruks Kamo to stay at the surface

1096
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 2: while he goes back under. He figures Kamo will be safer,

1097
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,240
Speaker 2: but he can also call for help if Chavarsh himself

1098
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: gets stuck or runs out of energy and needs to

1099
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 2: be rescued. Then he dives back down to the trolley bus,

1100
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 2: and despite all the silt making the water murky, he

1101
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: somehow manages to find the back window. And when he does,

1102
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 2: he quote brought his legs to his chest and thrust

1103
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: his left leg through the window with what he describes

1104
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: as quote a karate kick.

1105
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 1: And imagine being in there and like through the silt.

1106
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: Suddenly you see this probably handsome fucking guy.

1107
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,280
Speaker 2: You want to see Yeah, oh, he's very handsome.

1108
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: It's coming to save the day in the water. It's like, Hi, Hi,

1109
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: he's cute.

1110
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 2: Hi, how are you? I'd love to save you in

1111
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 2: my small bathing suit. I would love that too, and

1112
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 2: my beefy chest set a beef. That's a man that's

1113
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 2: been running around with weights on his body. Yeah, save

1114
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: the day. And then that what a fase, sweet little face,

1115
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 2: what a fase? Yeah? So it's a howt gy kicking

1116
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 2: in the window. Hell yeah, hell yes, So this kick works,

1117
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 2: he breaks in. He also slices his leg in the process,

1118
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 2: just part of it, so he has this huge gash

1119
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 2: on his leg. But he's now created a six foot

1120
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 2: wide opening in this trolleybus window without being able to

1121
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 2: really see. He starts feeling around for bodies before pulling

1122
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 2: someone through the window and then surfacing with them. Chavarsh

1123
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 2: hands that survivor over to his brother, who now is

1124
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 2: able to bring them to some first responders who have

1125
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 2: just rode out on kayaks, and then Chavarsh immediately heads

1126
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 2: back down. He moves unbelievably fast for someone who has

1127
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 2: just run thirteen miles with forty five pounds of sandstota.

1128
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: Or like not at all, like he moves fast for

1129
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: a person, just for just for.

1130
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 2: One of us. So he swims back down to the

1131
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 2: opening and grabs another person, brings them up to his brother,

1132
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 2: goes back down, grabs another, and so on. He then realizes,

1133
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 2: when he first comes up out of that area, he

1134
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 2: can swim above the roof and then push off from

1135
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 2: the roof and basically launch himself up to the surface

1136
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 2: way faster, so he starts doing it that way. He

1137
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: also pulled the glass of that six foot window out

1138
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 2: by hand, so he made it so that no one

1139
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 2: else would cut themselves the way he cut himself. Oh

1140
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 2: my god. So now there's a crowd gathered to watch

1141
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 2: this Harrying rescue mission play out, and one of the

1142
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: men in the crowd is Shavarsha's father, Vladimir, who was

1143
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 2: also coincidentally just in the area when the trolley bus

1144
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 2: went into the lake. He is so stunned to realize

1145
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 2: that the men in the water are his two sons.

1146
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: He later says, quote, I thought to myself, it's a

1147
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 2: good thing I made sure they learned how to swim. Yeah. Sorry, Yeah,

1148
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 2: I love Armenian style. They're so like they don't get

1149
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 2: riled up. Yea they're not extra, No, they're real. True.

1150
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:03,080
Speaker 2: He's not like boys, he's not bragging. He's just like, Wow,

1151
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 2: thank god we got those swim lessons going. Vladimir will

1152
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 2: later recall how tense and anxious these onlookers were. Of course,

1153
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 2: they have no idea who Chavarsh actually is. At one point,

1154
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 2: he doesn't resurface after a minute or two, and there

1155
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: is a palpable feeling in the crowd that he might

1156
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 2: have drowned mid rescue. Vladimir says, quote when he finally

1157
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: came up, there was a massive communal sigh of relief.

1158
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,919
Speaker 2: I'm holding my breath right now, I know. So down below,

1159
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 2: Chavarsh is still moving very fast, with no time to

1160
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 2: be diligent or to think about what he's doing. At

1161
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: one point, he grabs what he thinks is a person,

1162
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 2: but realizes upon surfacing that it's a seat cushion. Oh no,

1163
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 2: it paints him very much, and he will later say,

1164
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 2: quote that cost one life. Oh, only a few minutes

1165
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 2: have passed since this bus actually went into the water,

1166
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: and Chavarsh has already pulled dozens of bodies through that

1167
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: one broken window. We don't know the exact number, but

1168
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 2: It's estimated that he saves around twenty people while I'm drowning.

1169
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 2: Holy shit, twenty people one guy. But as precious seconds passed,

1170
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 2: Chavarsh realizes there are no survivors left. So in addition

1171
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: to the twenty people he saves, he recovers the bodies

1172
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 2: of around fifteen victim.

1173
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 1: He keeps doing it even though it's hopeless.

1174
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he winds down his rescue mission, but he

1175
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 2: doesn't rest cranes have just arrived at Lake Yerevan to

1176
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 2: lift the trolley bus out of the water, basically to

1177
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 2: get the rest of the bodies up out of the water.

1178
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 2: But the crane operators need to figure out how to

1179
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 2: wrap the crane's cables around the trolley to get it out.

1180
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 2: It's a dangerous job, but Chavarsh and his brother Kamo

1181
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: do it.

1182
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: No, you guys have done enough.

1183
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 2: They're like, don't anybody else get in this water? Yeah,

1184
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 2: let it just be us. Basically, Chavarch has to take

1185
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 2: a crow bar underwater, break out more windows, and then

1186
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: thread the cables through those broken windows by swimming through

1187
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 2: them through the cab of the trolley bus where there's

1188
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 2: like bodies yep, And they kind of can't see, and

1189
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 2: I'm sure he didn't clear out the broken glass. I mean,

1190
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: it's just he's doing it himself, and ultimately he's successful.

1191
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 2: The cranes are able to lift the trolley bus from

1192
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 2: the water, and the rest of the victims' bodies are recovered.

1193
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 2: When Chavarsh's finally about to get out of the lake,

1194
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 2: all of this exertion has taken a real toll on him,

1195
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: plus the polluted water. His legs starts shaking, his vision

1196
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 2: gets spotty, so his father, Vladimir takes him home and

1197
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 2: urges him to rest, but Chavarsha's condition gets worse. His

1198
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 2: fever spikes at one hundred and four degrees. He gets delirious.

1199
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 2: He starts convulsing.

1200
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 1: Because he's got that cut and then the pollution went in.

1201
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 2: It yes, horrifying, and also the sheer trauma of what

1202
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: he basically got himself into and then had to continue doing.

1203
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 2: That's just him by himself, with those with both survivors,

1204
00:59:56,360 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 2: but then bodies, that's too much, okay, So so he's

1205
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 2: taken to the hospital where he's diagnosed with a severe

1206
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: case of pneumonia. He's pumped with the antibiotics and he

1207
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 2: has to spend the next three weeks confined to a

1208
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 2: hospital bed. Years later, one of Shavarsh's doctors will talk

1209
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 2: about how close of a call this was, and they'll say,

1210
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 2: quote to be honest, I was surprised that we were

1211
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 2: able to save his life from that infection. It was

1212
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 2: the healthy system of an athlete that fought, and after

1213
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 2: he fought for the lives of others, God now gave

1214
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 2: him the strength to fight for his own life. So

1215
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 2: all of this happens, and he goes to the hospital.

1216
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 2: He's basically in the hospital for about a month, and

1217
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 2: essentially the people that were there and watched it happen

1218
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 2: know about it, and so Bath gets talked about. But

1219
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 2: most people in Yerevan don't know about the trolleybus accident,

1220
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 2: and they certainly don't know about Chavarsh's heroic response to it,

1221
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 2: although the local government has given him and Commo forty

1222
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 2: eight roubles the equivalent of a quarter of the typical

1223
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 2: monthly wage at the time, and that's all they get.

1224
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 2: Even though it's an incredible newsworthy story, no out let's

1225
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: pick it up. It seems very intentional because it's basically

1226
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: about a tragic infrastructure failure, and the Soviets don't want

1227
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 2: people hearing about that. Even the official report that documents

1228
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 2: the Trolleybush crash is classified. But Chavarsh didn't do it

1229
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 2: for attention or for glory. And actually when he marries

1230
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 2: his wife Nelly later on, he never tells her about

1231
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 2: what he tells me, Oh my god, dude, I earned it.

1232
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 2: Chavarsh feels like he has more pressing concerns. He's supposed

1233
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 2: to be working on his big comeback for the finn

1234
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 2: swimming team. You did it.

1235
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: That was your comeback.

1236
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, just three weeks after leaving the hospital,

1237
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 2: he goes back to training. So he's in the hospital

1238
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,439
Speaker 2: for almost a month. That's insane. Basically takes a month

1239
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 2: of like getting his strength back, and now he's back. Well,

1240
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 2: it was much harder for him at that point. He says, quote,

1241
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 2: when I started heavy training, I couldn't handle it. Mucus

1242
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 2: was coming up from my lungs. I was coughing all

1243
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 2: the time.

1244
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: You had pneumonia, yeah, like less than a month ago.

1245
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 2: Put the sand back down, buddy. Chavarsh also finds himself

1246
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 2: getting very tense when he has to be in water.

1247
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 2: Oh shit, which is understandable because of the trauma, but

1248
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 2: he is so eager to prove himself to the Soviet

1249
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 2: sports officials. He pushes through all of that fear and

1250
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 2: pain and trauma, and just a few months later, in

1251
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 2: the spring of nineteen seventy seven, he makes it to

1252
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 2: the Soviet Championship Games once again, this time in Baku. Azerbajan,

1253
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 2: your favorite country. I love it there as your Bajon

1254
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 2: was the reference country at the first writing job I

1255
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 2: ever had. Somebody very smart and funny made that reference,

1256
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 2: and then I was just like, that's a country, so

1257
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 2: now you know, like you really really know that way,

1258
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 2: I really know it. Got it? Yeah, I would never

1259
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 2: reference it because I don't know anything about it and

1260
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: I can't pronounce it except that the nineteen seventy seven

1261
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 2: Soviet Championship Games were there, so always known, which I've

1262
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: always known because I'm a big fan of Soviet Championship Games.

1263
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 2: Chavarsh is up against powerhouse Soviet swimmers. Two of his

1264
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 2: competitors have set world records, but he's here on a

1265
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 2: mission to prove himself to be the best finn swimmer

1266
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 2: in the USSR, and when he hears the starting gunfire,

1267
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 2: he leaps from the platform, he dives into the water,

1268
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 2: and as he puts it, quote, I swam to the death.

1269
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 2: I never raced so angry before. And in this race,

1270
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 2: the now twenty four year old Chavarche sets a new

1271
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 2: world record.

1272
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: Damn, I said, swim angry. That's the way we're learning.

1273
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 2: Swim angry. Baby, gotta do it, get in there and

1274
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 2: really want it. Later that year, at the European Championship Games,

1275
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 2: he'll win four more medals, three silvers and a gold.

1276
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 2: Almost no one in the crowd has any idea that

1277
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 2: less than a year before, this champion almost died saving

1278
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 2: the lives of twenty people. It's not until the early

1279
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 2: eighties when a reporter named Sergei Leskov, covering a swimming

1280
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 2: competition in Moscow, hears about champion Armenian finn swimmer who

1281
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 2: once quietly saved twenty people in Yerevan. And when serge

1282
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 2: brings this story back to his editor, he's immediately sent

1283
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 2: to Armenia to get the whole story and cover it all.

1284
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 2: As Carl Shrek writes in his I just realized that

1285
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 2: Carl Shrek's last name is Shrek. You just realized that, Yeah,

1286
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 2: I'm just reading it because it's spelt with a C.

1287
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: I've been hearing Shrek the whole time.

1288
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 2: He's just got a very light green complexion.

1289
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: I was thinking of the first time he said. I

1290
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: was like, ah, that had to suck. That moment that

1291
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: that movie came out.

1292
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 2: Just was like, oh no, oh no, it's me, Carl Shrek.

1293
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: Yeah forever.

1294
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: Will you marry me, Princess? No sounds good, Carl Shrek,

1295
01:04:56,120 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: please write in if you're good looking. Okay, So this

1296
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 2: writer who wrote the piece for Grantland the Plunge, Carl Schrek,

1297
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 2: says quote, it's unclear why local authorities decided to hand

1298
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 2: over documents about the accident to Leskov after keeping it

1299
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 2: quiet for so long. Perhaps they feared repercussions from Moscow

1300
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 2: if they stonewalled a leading national papers attempt to publish

1301
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 2: an ideologically sound lionization of a Soviet athlete. So maybe

1302
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 2: it's like, now Chavarsh has legitimized himself in the story.

1303
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: He's earned the right to brag about the thing he did.

1304
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, got it? Yeah, regardless. In October of nineteen eighty two,

1305
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 2: the story runs in this one Soviet newspaper under the

1306
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 2: headline quote a champions underwater battle. Mind you, it implies

1307
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 2: that Chavarche saved everyone on the trolleybus, which I think

1308
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 2: that happens in stories like that, and it also does

1309
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 2: not list the names of the victims. But this amazing

1310
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 2: Armenian hero is finally getting his long overdue recognition. So

1311
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 2: word spreads throughout the USSR, and one year later, in

1312
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, the most prominent newspaper in the Soviet

1313
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 2: Union picks up this story and spotlights Chavarsh in a

1314
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 2: lengthy article. It has a very wide reach and from

1315
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 2: many of the people Chavarch has saved. This is the

1316
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 2: first time they've ever learned his name, because like, yeah,

1317
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 2: it all went under wraps totally. So they were like,

1318
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 2: a guy got me out. All these other people died

1319
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 2: and we don't know who he is. And they find

1320
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 2: out not only he's him, but he's like this gold

1321
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 2: medal winning swimmer.

1322
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 1: Totally.

1323
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 2: Oh. This is also the first time Chavarsh's wife, Nelly,

1324
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 2: learns about her husband saving twenty lives.

1325
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 1: Hey, honey, how do you think that went? I read

1326
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: the newspaper today. Is there something that you've been meaning

1327
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: to be?

1328
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 2: Like? Tell me whatever you need, whatever you need or

1329
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 2: want to communicate to me, or not communicate to me,

1330
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 2: do it because you're so hot. Never speak to me again.

1331
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 2: Smokes cigarettes in the Pavilions parking lot all day long.

1332
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 2: About a month after that article runs, the USSR awards

1333
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:14,240
Speaker 2: Chavarche the first of many medals recognizing his courage, and

1334
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 2: over time he becomes a verifiable legend across the region. Finally,

1335
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 2: the press allows him, or the you know, the powers

1336
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 2: that be, allow him to get this credit that he

1337
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 2: so rightly deserves. But he's not going to stop there,

1338
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 2: because ten years after the trolleybus accident in nineteen eighty five,

1339
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 2: a fire breaks out at a year Van arena and

1340
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 2: Chevarche bursts into the burning building, shoulder to shoulder with

1341
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 2: the firefighters helping to look for survivors. Is he innaespeedo?

1342
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 2: I mean, because how would he's got one fin on

1343
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 2: his back? We don't know much more about the details

1344
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 2: of that scenario. We just know that he went in.

1345
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 2: He suffers burns in the process, but afterwards he will

1346
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 2: nonchalantly say, quote, anyone can find himself in a place

1347
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 2: where somebody needs help, and more than once to the

1348
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 2: main thing is to remember what makes you human.

1349
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: Amazing.

1350
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm fine with whatever kinds of rescues I

1351
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 2: have to do. Chavarsh becomes such an important cultural figure

1352
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: that during the twenty fourteen Winter Games in Sochi, he

1353
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,679
Speaker 2: was asked to carry the Olympic torch into the Kremlin.

1354
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 2: And you might remember him doing it because on his

1355
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,479
Speaker 2: last leg of the journey, the flame kept going out

1356
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 2: while he was running, and at one point he actually

1357
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 2: stopped and asked the security guard to re light it

1358
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 2: with the zippo. That's our boy, dude.

1359
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: He's like, I can get things done.

1360
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 2: He's like, what's going on? But also I kind of

1361
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 2: remember that guy and being like everybody else was looked

1362
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 2: like a run, looked like whatever, and Chavarge looks like

1363
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 2: older guy running. At that point, he was probably in

1364
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 2: his sixties, I think, so today's Chavarge is around seventy

1365
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 2: years old. He lives in Moscow, and while many years

1366
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 2: have passed since he dove into the reservoir, he has

1367
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 2: since become quite the entrepreneur. Shortly after moving to Moscow,

1368
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 2: he opened a shoe repair shop. It did so well

1369
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 2: that over the years he opened several more businesses including restaurants, clothing,

1370
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 2: and grocery stores. Damn, I mean just doing it. Yeah,

1371
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:26,559
Speaker 2: And I wonder if it's because people are like that

1372
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 2: guy's great. I want to get my shoes totally from

1373
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 2: that guy. I trust that guy. Yeah, I'd like to

1374
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 2: just go talk to him a little bit. In his

1375
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen grant Land piece, Carl Shrek asked about the

1376
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:40,679
Speaker 2: night that made Chavarge a legend, and what Chavarge says

1377
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 2: about it is simply quote, there was no other choice.

1378
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 2: I knew that it wouldn't be right if the world's

1379
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 2: fastest underwater swimmer was there and didn't even try to

1380
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:53,759
Speaker 2: help nature and humanity would have judged me. God probably

1381
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 2: would have judged me. And that's the story of Armenian

1382
01:09:56,479 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 2: hero Chavarg Karrapetyan. Wow, damn, a good one. It's a

1383
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 2: good one, right, Yeah, a disaster, a hero like Yeah,

1384
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,719
Speaker 2: that was good, a backup humility people that aren't doing

1385
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 2: it for the glory. Yeah, his brother is he? Okay?

1386
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: I mean did he get any fucking cred It doesn't

1387
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: sound like that, and the younger siblings never get the fucking.

1388
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 2: You stay over there, yeah, I mean, just.

1389
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: Stay over there and I'll hand you the people.

1390
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 3: Wow.

1391
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,839
Speaker 1: Good episode, a great episode, and a couple honking horays.

1392
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: At the end, we're back with another honking horay, presented

1393
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:46,879
Speaker 1: by Hyundai.

1394
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 2: We're so excited to be doing your horays and in

1395
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 2: the Ionic fives right.

1396
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 1: What a combination you want to go for as sure

1397
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 1: can't contain my excitement listening to you ladies talk about

1398
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 1: TV weather people.

1399
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: Nor should you yet get out here and hooray it

1400
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 2: up as a weather reino. I was beaming with pride.

1401
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: You ladies were with me through the worst breakup of

1402
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:12,560
Speaker 1: my life and now I'm getting married to the loml

1403
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: love of mine.

1404
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,759
Speaker 2: Oh and it's okay, good, good, hooray for science and love.

1405
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 1: Felicia calms at and that's on Instagram.

1406
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 2: Congratulations Felicia. Congratulations Weatherinos. The weather Reinos are behind us.

1407
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 2: Who no, okay, this says hooray from New Zealand. It's

1408
01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 2: an email. Dear MFM. Been a faithful listener since twenty sixteen,

1409
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 2: which is the same year that I met my partner,

1410
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 2: So you can never stop podcasting because that's how we

1411
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 2: keep track of how long we've been together. My horay

1412
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 2: is that I was misled about teenagers. I have two

1413
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 2: of them coming up to eighteen and sixteen years old

1414
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 2: in August, a boy and a girl, respectively. That I

1415
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,440
Speaker 2: love the bones of them as a given, but expecting

1416
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 2: their teenage years to be sullen, smelly, ornery and unpleasant

1417
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 2: was a complete misdirect. Instead, I find that I'm living

1418
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:03,639
Speaker 2: with two smarts, funny, curious, andsightful, independent, affectionate young people.

1419
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 2: They are fiercely loyal, roast me daily in ways that

1420
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 2: I can only admire, and constantly make me see things

1421
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 2: from a different perspective. Their friends are a gas. I

1422
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 2: get to listen to new music, so I've never said

1423
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 2: kids these days don't know what music. It is a

1424
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 2: phrase that indicates your readiness to be checked into a

1425
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 2: home for the elderly, because because they get into retro

1426
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 2: as well, I get to relive my own teenagehood by

1427
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 2: listening to everything from guns n' Roses to TLC in

1428
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 2: the car that was like MTV in nineteen ninety seven.

1429
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,120
Speaker 2: Of course, there are challenges, but I certainly did not

1430
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 2: expect the sheer joy of having teenagers in my life

1431
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 2: stay sexy and sing along to November Rain Rashni from

1432
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,719
Speaker 2: out a Roa, New Zealand.

1433
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:57,440
Speaker 3: Wow, teenagers, someone cool stepping up and saying give teenagers

1434
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:02,639
Speaker 3: a break. Finally, finally, Okay, this is an email says hooray,

1435
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 3: my daughter is completing her first week being back at

1436
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:10,640
Speaker 3: school after having a two kilogram tumor removed from her chest.

1437
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 2: Wow.

1438
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,759
Speaker 1: She's six years old and is a murderino in the making.

1439
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: She's been through two ten hour surgeries and has maintained

1440
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:20,839
Speaker 1: her sunny disposition with just the right amount of sass.

1441
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 1: And that says to her brother when he couldn't find something, well,

1442
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 1: how about looking for it with your eyes open?

1443
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:28,679
Speaker 2: Oh damn. Hurrah to the.

1444
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: Nhs UK and the amazing staff at the Bristol Children's Hospital.

1445
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:38,559
Speaker 1: From Rachel she her and B six ball of joy XO.

1446
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 2: Stay strown B and to everybody at the Bristol Children's Hospital.

1447
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 2: Man just doing the Lord's work. Okay, here's an email

1448
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 2: and it just says I just turned in my final

1449
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,679
Speaker 2: capstone for my master's. I don't know what. Of course,

1450
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 2: we don't know. I'm a teacher and I decided to

1451
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,480
Speaker 2: get my master's in film analysis to teach film analysis.

1452
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:07,720
Speaker 2: One day. My capstone paper maybe it's like the the

1453
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:12,400
Speaker 2: It's a thesis in a different country. That's what we'll say.

1454
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:15,879
Speaker 2: It is my capstone paper, which was sixty pages discussed

1455
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 2: the psychology of horror films. While the paper was fun

1456
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 2: to write, I'm so happy to be done with it.

1457
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:25,160
Speaker 2: Hooray for never having to write an academic paper again. Justine,

1458
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 2: sixty pages, congratulations, Justin. You did it, you did, and

1459
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 2: you did it without AI hopefully. I mean, we don't

1460
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 2: know you, Justine, what are you doing? Okay, here's what

1461
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 2: this one says. Hooray for Pedro Pascal.

1462
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, it could just start and end there.

1463
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 1: But seeing as the entire world has simultaneously fallen deeply

1464
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 1: in love with this man, it feels important to note

1465
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: the glimmer of hope I feel in so many of us,

1466
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 1: all genders, devoting all of our parasocial desires to a

1467
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 1: man who challenges every function of toxic masculinity in our culture.

1468
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 1: If all of us can love man who is hell

1469
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: bent on protecting our trans community, is resisting systems of

1470
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: oppression on the daily, is constantly being lovingly snuggled by

1471
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 1: other healthy, handsome men in his life, and is the

1472
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 1: living embodiment of a human cinnamon role. I think that

1473
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:20,760
Speaker 1: speaks to the changing zeitgeist for how we define sexiness

1474
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:24,800
Speaker 1: and healthy masculinity. Yay for Pedro of Mescal being all

1475
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: of our daddies, and hooray.

1476
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:28,719
Speaker 2: For those arms.

1477
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: Dang, stay sexy and keep loving the pedros of the

1478
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:34,560
Speaker 1: world at Lauren.

1479
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 2: Oscopy, Lauren, I think that the comparison that he is

1480
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 2: a human cinnamon role is one of the most perfect

1481
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 2: things I've ever heard. He is all of our daddies.

1482
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 2: What big good are you? Oh my gosh, I'm a

1483
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:51,559
Speaker 2: Danish literally Danish. Okay, well I have a celebrity one too.

1484
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:54,000
Speaker 2: This was from the email, and it just says, I

1485
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 2: just passed Michelle Buteaux on the street. I said nothing

1486
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 2: because as a native New Yorker, I just let people people.

1487
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 2: But I may have gazed at her longingly for half

1488
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 2: a beat, and then it just says hooray period. And

1489
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 2: then there's an asterisk at the end of I just

1490
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 2: let people be people, And then down here the asterisk

1491
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 2: says this rule does not apply to any and all

1492
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 2: possible Pedro Pascal sightings. So good, And that was from

1493
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 2: Amy Elizabeth Bravo. Oh my god, she's like the one

1494
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:27,200
Speaker 2: He's the one person. Yeah that She's like, I can

1495
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:29,640
Speaker 2: mob you. We're not going to break this rule for

1496
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 2: Michelle Buteau, but we're definitely breaking it when that guy

1497
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 2: rolls up. All Pedro Pascal bets are off. First you

1498
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 2: smell a cinnamon and you're like, what is that? There's

1499
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 2: someone nearby? Thank you guys for listening to these honking horays.

1500
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 1: Thank you Hyundai for sponsoring these honking horays.

1501
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:48,559
Speaker 2: Thank you Hyundai, and thank you to Pedro Pascal. Especially,

1502
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 2: thank you to all Sinnmon rolls everywhere. Stay sexy and

1503
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 2: don't get murdered.

1504
01:16:53,360 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 1: Today, Elvis, do you want a cookie?

1505
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:04,919
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production.

1506
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:07,719
Speaker 1: Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

1507
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,920
Speaker 2: Our editor is Aristotle os Vedo. This episode was mixed

1508
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 2: by Leona Squalacci. Our researchers are Maaron McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

1509
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 1: Email your homecounts to My Favorite Murder at gmail dot com.

1510
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:20,639
Speaker 2: Follow the show on Instagram at My Favorite Murder.

1511
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 1: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1512
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1513
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 2: And now you can watch us on exactly Right's YouTube page.

1514
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,160
Speaker 2: While you're there, please like and subscribe. Good byebye,