WEBVTT - The Mystery of New Zealand's Kaikōura Lights 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.119 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.920 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.760 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:29.640 my name is Noah. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:32.720 They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.159 super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:41.240 are you. You are here That makes this the stuff 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.720 they don't want you to know. Previously, on Stuff they 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:50.040 don't want you to know, in our weekly listener mail program, 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.360 which informs a lot of our future episodes, we were 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.560 contacted by our fellow conspiracy realist Uncle Benny. And guys, 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.160 I don't know if we all remember this, but it was, uh, 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.800 it was late July this year when Uncle Benny hipped 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.440 us to one of the most bizarre UFO stories in 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:15.679 modern history. With full disclosure, none of us have been 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.200 to New Zealand, is that correct? 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:20.520 No, but y'all have been practicing your Kiwi accents and 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.880 I can't wait to hear your roll them out. And 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.080 do you like the Michael Caine off of Kiwi accents? 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.920 Well, I think it's gonna come out accidentally as we're 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:34.120 saying like names. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:40.560 Accent is how we Yeah, I only just got the 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:47.119 hang of narr as well? Or is that just exclusively ausy. 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.040 I mean, it's a big country, It's true. I'm sure 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:50.960 there's someone. 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.240 A lot of sheep apparently a lot of yes, yes, 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.080 a lot of works to watch. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:55.440 Out for them. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.960 Everything I know came from them. What we do in 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.760 the Shadows, Out of the Concords tv SO. 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:03.840 And Lord of the Rings come on, you're leaving out? 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.440 Yeah, but like they didn't have New Zealand accents. 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:12.280 It wasn't New Zealand is set in Atlanta. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.480 Right right, right, Although that would be great, give us 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.360 your head cannon, give us your fandom of Lord of 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.919 the Rings being New Zealand. 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.160 A remake with accents us. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:29.320 Make entirely with accents, right we maybe some bits. We'll 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.280 get to that and that's yeah, we'll chount for the beats. 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:38.200 Uh So, levels, folks, levels, we're doing levels tonight. We 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:43.600 also want to, of course, as we're affectionately describing here, 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.679 we want to point out that we do not have 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:55.000 anything other than painfully American accents. When we may mispronounce 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.840 or cartoonishly pronounce a thing. It is for comedic value. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:04.520 It is with great respect to our friends in New Zealand, 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.720 especially our friends on New Zealand's South Island. 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.560 So that was a mouthful, man, I could feel it 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:13.639 rolling around in there. 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.799 Well yeah, like an anzac biscuit exactly. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:18.440 I'd love to do a quick shout out here to 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.400 a TV show that I think we've mentioned once or 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.640 twice before, because a lot of us know what we 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:24.640 do in the shadows, A lot of us know the 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.760 Concords right. Not many of us, I think, know about 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.120 Wellington Paranormal. 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:33.519 Oh yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, fantastic show and fantastic 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:39.000 in this episode, we're headed to Wellington. We're headed to Wellington. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.360 We also want to shout out our good friends at 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:47.280 Hanti Donna and can I also shout out a podcast 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.200 that is kind of nerd culture stuff from some lovely 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.800 dudes called The Weekly Planet, and they seem to be 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:54.200 friends with the Aunty Donna guys. 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.240 So if you like their shenanigans and you're into nerd 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.840 culture stuff, highly recommend the Weekly Planet podcast. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.240 And to be clear, our friends at Auntie Donna are Australian. 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:09.120 Will get into this. But let us shinan together, folks. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.800 Tonight's episode takes us on a journey through time and 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:19.080 earthly space to the final days of December nineteen seventy 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.640 eight on New Zealand's South Island. We're gonna pause for 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:32.080 a word from our sponsors. Here are the facts. Let's 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:38.560 start by kicking some geography. Okay, So, since not everybody 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:42.719 has a world map directly behind their monitor or directly 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.080 in front of them while they're listening, New Zealand is 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.680 not Australia. New Zealand is very close to Australia. It's 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:54.240 often been called the Canada of Australia. And by often called, 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.400 we mean specifically by us on this show. 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.760 Oh okay, god, okay, who's saying that fighting words always 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.120 have a specific source? 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:07.320 Yes? But also it is pretty far away. There's a 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.800 whole sea in between, right, And it's not like the 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.039 Black Sea or some of the smaller seas out there. 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.880 This is at it's pretty much ocean, y'all. But but 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:21.680 it is close, right, But it's but it's not so 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.279 close that you can just take a quick flight over 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.840 the way you can, you know, in the UK and 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:29.320 to a lot of other places in Europe. 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.480 It's right remote, right, I mean it's it certainly still 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.640 feels that way, at least looking at it on the map. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:42.080 It has an outsized global impression on culture. It's also 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:47.799 most famous for a lot of non Aussi conspiracy realist 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.919 or non Kiwi conspiracy realist by being a place where 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.880 the world's current billionaires are bunkering up. And so you 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.640 may hear it mentioned often in that reg guard in 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:01.960 shows of a similar milieu. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.160 And when you're looking at this place from above right 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.400 to the southeast of mainland Australia, there you're going to 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:15.960 see two primary large islands. Essentially, I'm thinking a little 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.200 bit of a comparison to Japan with the way it's 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:25.159 set up there perhaps, And we are talking, as you said, Ben, 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.800 about the south of those two islands. 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:32.240 Yeah, by far the largest of the two islands. In fact, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.720 the South Island is technically the twelfth largest island on 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.039 the planet. And if you're looking at the map overhead 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.080 right you're getting sat NAV or something. This may not 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:50.400 look Titanic from your perspective, but it's important to remember 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.200 it's a big place and for most of human history 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.479 it was very sparsely populated, but it's home to stunning 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:03.359 geography and natural wonders. True story, folks, the South Island 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.920 is home to something called the Southern Alps. That's how 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.880 amazing the mountains are. That's why to your earlier point. 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.640 Now they filmed Lord of the Rings there lush, you 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:15.040 can get it. 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:16.920 You can get a bit of a sense of it 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:19.920 from the map. But like of that mountain range, but 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.960 it is not. It doesn't look like that. It looks 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:25.120 like Lord of the Rings. 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:30.840 Yeah, especially because of the plains surrounding the mountains. That 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.640 that's why it becomes so majestic. Our story tonight takes 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:39.960 place in a curious area called the Kaikoura Mountain Ranges. 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:40.440 Uh. 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:45.679 This is spelled k a I k o u r A. Again, 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:49.240 we're not doing the accents unless it's for comedy. Uh. 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:53.120 And it's These mountains are named after a small coastal 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.840 town also called Kaikoura. Uh. It's an interesting thing because 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:03.600 the ranges here, the Paikoura Ranges, are two parallel groups 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.080 of mountains and they're in the northeast of the South Island. 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:08.400 Uh. 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:13.000 They are so big because they're surrounded by plains. Right 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:16.160 and rolling hills. They're so big that you can see 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:20.280 them from the south of the smaller, much more populous 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:24.240 North Island. And here we have a cameo from our 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:30.520 pow James Cook. Captain James Cook. Excuse me who originally 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.800 when he was one of the Captain Cook the yes 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.080 of the of the Captain Cook famu to be confused 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.760 with James Kirk. This is different. This is right explorer 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.800 and not to be confused with Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad, 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.000 which I just rewatched. I was watching it last night too. 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.360 Was the episode where they're kind of weighing whether or 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.920 not to execute that that crazy. 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:02.880 Spoilers. I didn't say whether they did. Internet guys, we've 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.080 said it in the past, just twenty years old at 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:10.199 this point that I think we've reached. 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.160 The statute of limitations on okay, well the Internet. 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.160 Here's the thing, we've discussed it on the show in 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.320 the past. Breaking Bad is essentially car stuff but with 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:30.840 meth hmmm, got to get that pseudo getting that pseudo, Sorry, Captain, 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:35.720 I'm sorry. He puts the chili pee. 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.240 In the in the yes, Breaking Bad coded right. 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:44.320 Now, So this has uh these pop culture references are 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.040 hopefully valuable to someone and thank you for tuning in 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:54.480 the The The thing is, the ranges themselves are still 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:58.079 pretty rural. As of some of the most up to 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.719 date information from the New New Zealand Census, there are 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.839 a little less than two thousand people living there day 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:07.320 to day. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:12.040 Yeah, yeah, crazy, and these ranges are really important. Not 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.520 many people there. There are two towns that we have 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:20.480 to focus in on, Wellington and christ Church. Wellington is 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:25.840 on the very southern tip of that the more northern island, 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:30.200 the smaller island, a heavily populated place, lots of air 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.760 traffic control going on there, lots of radar, lots of 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.120 checking out what's going on. 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.679 And you may recognize the name christ Church, which the 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:40.480 same way that I did. It was the site of 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.800 a really awful terrorist attack back in twenty nineteen at 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.040 two mosques and it was a huge deal because it 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.800 was a horrible situation, but also just things like that 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:51.880 just don't happen there and it's such a you know, 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.439 rural very like you said, kind of what's the word 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.720 adyllic kind of you know place part of the world 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:00.120 that it was just really shock. 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.319 To hear about something like that coming. But we're talking 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:09.600 about two big cities. So christ Church has a population 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.520 of over three hundred and fifty thousand or so, and 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.920 that makes it the third largest city in the country. Uh. 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.200 The first one is Auckland and the second is as 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.040 we mentioned, Wellington. They have a lot of toys that 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.560 are going to be important for tonight's exploration exactly. 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:28.200 And because they have a lot of toys and they're 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.720 on that more populous island up there in the north, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.800 there are regular standard flights, huge cargo plains that travel 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.880 from Wellington with a bunch of stuff to christ Church 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.600 and they land and then they turn around and they 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.520 go back to Wellington and Kaikura. This mountain range we're 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.080 talking about is kind of smack dab in between these 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.840 two christ Church by the way, on that southern island 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:51.960 past Kaikoura. 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:56.200 In the mount you have to traverse the mountains right, yes, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.760 you have to find the mountain pass. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.600 Or essentially go right over the ocean there right next 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:02.640 to them. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:07.240 Or skirt skirt. Yeah. So the issue here is that 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:13.000 most locals, most New Zealand nationals know of these mountains 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:18.600 to one degree or another, but they gain national attention on. 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:20.840 You know, I was thinking of the way to say it. 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:27.000 Kaikora Mountain Ranges. For a lot of people pre nineteen 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:31.040 seventy eight in New Zealand, they were like the Grand 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.200 Canyon in the United States. They were a wonder you 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.520 knew about. Right. You might know about the Adirondacks, but 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.240 you never visit, right because maybe I haven't at the time. 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:47.199 Yeah, the chairs are mega uncomfortable, right, they're. 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:52.880 No AAMS chairs. I agree. It's late in the evening, 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:57.959 about eleven pm local time on December twentieth, nineteen seventy eight, 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.880 when a guy named Ian Ulfindel of the New Zealand 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:07.720 RAF Royal Air Force reports unusual lights in the sky 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:12.439 and he says, I can do the voice. He says, 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:17.400 three objects. There's one big one and there are two 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.600 smaller things like orbes well lighty boys, and they're making 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.640 controlled movement and they're flying in some sort of pattern together. 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.400 And this immediately, you know, has credence to it the 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.319 way like the tic Tac stories did, because of who 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.280 it's coming from. It's not just some like crackpot, you know, 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.680 stargazing and seeing some weird and they're telescope. It's like 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.600 someone who is used to monitoring these types of situations 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.359 and is absolutely qualified to say this is a little. 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.240 Weird, right, yeah, yeah, and he adds they're not aircraft. 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.640 Well yeah, at least they don't seem like it, right. 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:57.120 And the craziest thing is that the person he's talking 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.920 to when he is reporting this stuff is the person 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:06.040 who's manning the radar, and that person is also seeing 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.680 stuff out there. So it's not like some of those 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.440 UFO sightings that we've heard about in the past, where hey, 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.520 we're not getting anything on radar, but there are weird lights. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.520 There's something physically out there. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.680 It's pinging on the radar. And this is when we 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.480 fast forward to the part of the lore that may 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:26.440 be most familiar, or the origin story that's most familiar 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:32.560 to ufologists. It's December twenty, first wee hours, nineteen seventy eight. 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:38.080 A small crew is flying cargo plane in Argacy, this 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.680 type of plane and the company they're flying for is 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.800 called Safe Air Limited. Weirdly enough, they're delivering creates of 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:52.080 newspapers and they're flying and they start clocking strange objects 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:57.240 that seem to be bird dogging their craft, and they say, 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.840 you can hear the clips from the and the crew 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.160 themselves where they're saying, look, this is they're calling atc 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.120 air Traffic Control and they're saying, look, these there are 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:13.080 things around us, these strange orbs in the sky. They're 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.560 not uniform in size. One is as large as a house, 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:21.000 and they are tracking us, and then they're disappearing, and 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:26.560 then they're inexplicably appearing somewhere else minutes later, and they're saying, 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.600 these are blowing red or orange orbs. Some of them 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.760 are pulsing like white beacons. And it kind of goes 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.680 back to what you were saying there earlier, NOL. It's 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:41.240 oddly not that unusual for isolated groups of people, even 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:47.600 aviation experts, to witness aerial phenomena they can't immediately explain. 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.200 Yeah, but it is pretty striking that this is all 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.600 occurring on the same night. All of this is happening. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.920 So we've got an officer at a base seeing something 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.800 that he thinks are just planes. Oh wait, those aren't 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.120 just planes, but they are on radar. And then you've 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.360 got actual human beings in a flight over these mountains 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.840 seeing the stuff. Pretty nuts. 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.640 Yeah, that's one of the primary reasons so there are 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.920 three big reasons why the Kaikora lights are different from 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.680 most reports. First, as you said, Matt, they're clocked by 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.520 air traffic Control, they're out of Wellington. The argasy crew 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.200 naturally calls in the event and ATC is able to 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:36.320 confirm something is there, which means something was material enough 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.440 to ping on a radar. They show up on the 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:40.680 aircraft radar as well. 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.160 Yeah, and you also have all of these human beings 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.800 who saw all this stuff later gave interviews where they 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.240 said directly into a camera and microphone exactly what they saw. 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.880 So Ian Uffindel, John Cordy, the guy who was in 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:57.840 the radar control room, they're in Wellington. 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.880 Sure they're pilots, Yeah. 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.160 Vern Powell and Ian Pierre Peiri, I think is how 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.040 you say his name. They all will talk about it openly. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.920 It's not like this thing that everybody's nervous about, because 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.440 we've seen that before as well, right with UFO reports. 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.240 People are nervous to talk about it, or they feel 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.240 as though they might be shunned or looked at differently 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.680 for seeing something like this and then saying it out loud. 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.879 We don't see that happening with this case, we don't 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.960 see a lot of the telltale things that make more 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.000 skeptically minded of us think, oh, well, this is probably 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.199 a hoax, or this isn't real, or you know, the 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.040 way those people are talking, it doesn't seem right. We're 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:38.840 not seeing that here. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.520 Yeah. And the second of these three things is that 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:47.479 these lights eventually are cited by hundreds of other people, 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.600 not on the specific planes. And we're using the word 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:56.480 planes as a plural on purpose because the third big 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.560 thing that differentiates this event is that it is a 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:04.000 series of events. There are multiple instances of these lights 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.680 being observed over the next few days, with all of 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.560 the doodads we just mentioned, so. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:13.400 Maybe we get into film cameras. 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:18.520 The second most famous sighting, which is December thirtieth, same year. 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:21.720 Just a few days later, it's almost nineteen seventy nine, 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:27.359 there's an Australian television crew recording a similar event, also 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.240 a board of cargo aircraft. This one is flying between 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.639 you guessed it, folks, Wellington and christ Church. This is 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:38.080 where we introduce a three person team, reporter Quentin Fogerty, 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:42.639 a cameraman named David Crockett, and Nigher Crockett. The audio 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.360 tech who is also David Crockett's wife. They are literally 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.920 on the plane because get this, they're shooting b roll 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:55.119 for a TV show about the earlier sightings, and lo 0:18:55.520 --> 0:19:02.240 and behold, they witness their own Kaikora lights at the time. 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:07.280 This time they're able to film on sixty millimeter from 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.800 the plane in color and this is again confirmed by 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:16.560 Wellington Air Traffic Control. It's being observed by numerous witnesses. 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.000 Do we want to play a clip of Fogerty talking 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.520 about this. I've been on the edge of my seat 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:23.080 waiting for it. 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.120 Yeah, we have several clips here, and let's go ahead 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.719 and cite the source. We found these on a YouTube 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.440 channel called Marlborough Video Vault. The video is titled the 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:38.600 Kaikora UFOs Dash nineteen seventy eight and at least according 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.680 to attribution on the description there, it was written and 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.000 produced by Paul Davidson. So thank you Paul for doing this. 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.080 The actual clips here are from nineteen seventy eight, there 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:53.040 in late December, and this is nuts. So this first 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.800 one we're just going to hear from Quentin Fogerty, who 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.159 is there. I've seen him cited as being a Channel 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.720 zero or Channel O Reporter, but also for TV one 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.320 also News at six, so. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.440 Change their name a couple times over the decades as well. 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.000 Yeah. So, to my understanding, it was recorded as part 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:16.480 of a television news broadcast after they had heard of 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:17.760 this original sighting. 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.680 Yer twenty first is the one the public knew about. Yeah. 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:22.000 Yeah. 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:26.520 The producer there, Leonard Lee, got got permission to go 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.040 up on one of these flights, on one of these 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:34.240 Argacy flights. So let's jump to this. This is Quentin Fogerty, 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.760 just during the initial trip, describing what they're seeing through 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.800 the windows of the Argusy cockpit. Oh, this is one 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:43.520 of the pieces of information we need to know. This 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.200 is a cargo plane, so it's not like maybe a 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.960 plane you've flown in where you've got windows all down 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.800 the sides and stuff. This is imagine just a big 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.240 metal tube and then you can see out the front 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:54.399 of it. 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.840 Does that make sense, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:02.000 So everything they're seeing is the cockpit through the windows 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.200 that the pilots are using to fly the plane in 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:07.399 real time. Yes, So here we go. 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.359 The very first thing we saw was these sort of 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.920 falls of light that would just appear in the sky, 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:14.960 and I mean it was really just looking through small 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:19.080 windows at a very very black sky and seeing pulsating 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.680 lights that started usually as a very very small pinprick 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.520 of light and then would go into like a great 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:27.280 globe of light. 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.520 Now, that's the so we originally said, the real time report. 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:37.360 That is Fogerty looking back and recalling in an interview 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.719 where a documentary we saw. But if you check out 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.560 this thing, which is freely available any anywhere you want 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:48.600 to look online, you will see the lights that he 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:52.399 is describing, and he appears to be describing those with accuracy. 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.040 Yeah, you can hear kind of in the moment him 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.240 describing it, but it's just not as eloquent. It's just, 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.960 you know, he as even states in those later interviews, 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:06.200 he's kind of he's a bit flum mixed experiencing this 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:08.320 whole thing and just trying to describe it in real 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.800 time there, but he's just not doing a great job. 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.880 There are several pieces of that you can here though, 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:15.080 mm hmm. 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.720 Yeah. And here's the kicker, folks, here's the badger in 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:23.720 the bag. They land the plane and we'll get into 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.439 more of this as we continue. They land the plane, 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:32.240 and in this instance, one of the objects, these inexplicable orbs, 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:36.840 appears to follow the plane right up until it lands. 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.760 And when they land, their camera guy is reloading his 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.440 film right, he's getting better film stock. We're working live. 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.160 The plane takes off once more and now it's followed 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:52.119 by a quote orb like object for another fifteen minutes, 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:53.920 also caught on film. 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.280 Oh yeah, and we have one more clip. You don't mind, guys, 0:22:57.400 --> 0:22:59.640 of that moment, because this is one of the actual 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.639 film clips from nineteen seventy eight. It's the moment that 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:05.320 they're in the radar room in christ Church and they're 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:08.520 getting word from Wellington that the lights are still out there. 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:12.520 And in this moment, you have to imagine what's going 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:14.359 through the minds of you know, these pilots and this 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:19.040 film crew in this moment, they are kind of terrified 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:22.320 because of this thing. We have to mention here that 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:25.320 happened very recently to the moment. This is happening in 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:29.320 December nineteen seventy eight. What happened to Frederick Valentich in 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:34.080 October of nineteen seventy eight, And this has happened in Australia, 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:37.200 so not very far from them. As we said, where 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.919 a pilot. There's a lot of scuttle but a lot 0:23:40.960 --> 0:23:44.920 of rumors about this pilot that radioed in that he 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:48.480 was seeing something that was metal and not an aircraft 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:53.440 right before he disappeared. So these pilots were aware of this, 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.120 This news crew was aware of this, and now they're 0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:59.879 up there seeing these lights and interacting with them. They 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:04.159 imagined that perhaps they might meet the same fate that 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:07.880 Frederick met right just disappearing plane and all. 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:12.360 Yeah, nineteen seventy eight. Checkout our episode from twenty twenty three, 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:14.760 the disappearance of Frederick Valentich. 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:19.159 Absolutely absolutely so. Here is a quick clip of that 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.120 moment right before they took off for the second time. 0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.320 We're now on the radar room at christ Church Airport. 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:28.840 It's about quarter to two, and in about another twenty 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:31.320 minutes we intend to take off again in the agacy 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.679 and retrace the route we took only a few moments earlier. 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:38.160 We've just heard from Wellington Radar that there are still 0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:41.200 targets in the kai Kura area, So this time we're 0:24:41.240 --> 0:24:43.200 hoping to get at a film than we did last time. 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:46.240 And all I can say is we'll see what happens. 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:48.960 There we go and so you can almost hear the 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:54.000 nerves there and it was such a heroing experience that 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:58.439 the sound record is Gary Krockett, the wife of David Krogett, 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:01.080 the cameraon chose not to go back on the return flight. 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:05.760 Yeah, and again they're a freelance team, uh, not expecting 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:08.600 this double tap. These are b roll They're there for 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:12.639 b roll in interviews, you know, in situ in the moment. 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:17.240 So we've got to applaud crocket there for being for 0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:19.480 being the person who said, look, I'm here in a 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:22.560 professional capacity and I don't want to be one of 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:25.560 those suckers in the first act of a possible horror film, 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:26.600 you know what I mean? 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:28.840 Can we also just acknowledge that it's badass that his 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:29.960 name is Davy Crockett. 0:25:30.200 --> 0:25:33.440 I just can't. Sorry, Well, I think we were all 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.840 working it more impressive to us. Maybe maybe probably he 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:39.240 was a little sick of hearing about it. 0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:43.080 Dave noted that there's some weird stuff when they got 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:46.399 off the plane the first time, where he states that 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:49.879 the exterior the exterior of the plane seemed to be 0:25:50.080 --> 0:25:55.680 magnetized or energized in some way, and like he it 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:56.400 just felt weird. 0:25:57.160 --> 0:25:58.720 He says this after the fact. 0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:00.760 He does say it out after the fact, but he 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:03.560 says he noted getting out of the plane and even 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:07.040 was talking to his spouse at the time about how 0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:10.440 weird even the plane felt after experiencing that stuff. 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:14.880 Right, was something too close to the craft. So from here, 0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:20.840 the case Garner's international attention and the December thirtieth incident 0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:27.680 is really responding to a spate of multiple instances that 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:30.840 have been reported on some level from the twenty first 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:34.800 to the thirtieth. The authorities feel they have to respond, 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:38.879 and so the local police, the Carter Observatory out in 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:42.800 Wellington again, the town with all the toys, the Royal 0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:46.440 New Zealand Air Force, the Ministry of Defense. It's like 0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:50.760 our Department of Defense here, or excuse me, kaugh cough, 0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:56.960 Department of War cough cough. And so they all get involved. 0:26:57.000 --> 0:26:59.920 And then this is in addition to scads of amit 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:04.040 to our ufologists, established scientific experts with a lot of 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.399 bona fides and related fields. The New Zealand Air Force 0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:12.080 literally puts a Skyhawk on standby in case we need 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:15.560 somebody to scoop scoop for further sightings and half a 0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:20.240 world away, our friends at the company are analyzing later 0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:24.360 reports from a Lackey P three Orion, a real spoopy 0:27:24.400 --> 0:27:28.760 doop ship that was sent to monitor the area. Those 0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:33.080 two things, the Skyhawk and the Ariot, those occur away 0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:37.480 from the public eye. And right now as we're recording 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:41.760 these lights, whatever they may be, they get sighted or 0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:46.199 reported every now and again in the year sense, often 0:27:46.320 --> 0:27:49.240 toward the end of the year, with sub reports being 0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:53.520 as recent as twenty to fifty makes you wonder makes 0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:58.119 first question would be, is this due to a recurrent 0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:02.800 meteorological condition, right that happens around that time of year, 0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:03.280 or something like. 0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:07.320 That ghost lights type situation or like swamp gas not that, 0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:09.720 but like that, right, Yeah. 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:12.719 I mean this news report went out to the public, 0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:16.399 so people got to see the actual filmed footage of 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:20.119 UFOs in nineteen seventy eight above this area. So you 0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:25.720 have to imagine that's increasing traffic maybe to look for things, 0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:27.960 more eyes on the skies as it were. 0:28:28.400 --> 0:28:30.480 It's it's priming interest. 0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:33.280 It's priming interest, but it could also be priming perception. 0:28:33.760 --> 0:28:36.440 You know, there could be same thing, right, right, And 0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:39.040 it also reminds me of the drone situation where we 0:28:39.160 --> 0:28:42.160 had a Jersey I believe, where there were drones sighted 0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:46.840 and these weird lights sighted and it was determined to 0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:49.200 be like an array of drones or whatever. But by 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:53.360 virtue of all the reporting, more amateur dronists got their 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:56.320 drones out there and just added to the situation, therefore 0:28:56.680 --> 0:28:58.560 upping the number of people citing them. 0:28:58.640 --> 0:29:00.640 It's just like kind of a self feeding system. Yes, 0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:04.720 it's a social dynamic. It's related to It's actually one 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:08.120 of the primary reasons law enforcement never likes to say 0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:12.280 a serial murderer unless it's unavoidable. So we have a 0:29:12.440 --> 0:29:17.680 mystery afoot here or a sky if you like, dude, awesome, 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:20.520 that worked out. We can keep that part that So 0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:25.600 there's While there has been to date new material evidence 0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:31.480 recovered or at least publicly disclosed, this case checks all 0:29:31.600 --> 0:29:35.840 of the other boxes for a good UFO instance. We 0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:39.400 have multiple occurrences, we have a contained region, we have 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:43.800 multiple witnesses, some of whom are aviation or radar experts. 0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:48.280 We have electronic confirmation, you name it. We've got everything 0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:50.680 but the physical evidence. And so it must be no 0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:56.320 surprise that almost half a century after that initial December twentieth, 0:29:56.760 --> 0:30:01.480 nineteen seventy eight clocking. People around the world are still asking, 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:06.800 what on or off earth happened? Can we explain that 0:30:06.920 --> 0:30:07.960 Kaikora lights? 0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:13.080 Maybe we'll try, after I ward from my sponsor. 0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:22.960 Here's where it gets crazy. I thought it was already crazy. 0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:25.000 Ben thought it's been crazy this whole time. 0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:26.080 Just now. 0:30:26.600 --> 0:30:30.440 It's where we get to the explanation. Fair for uphold, 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:34.480 and so often the well we have a soul to uphold. 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:39.360 So often the uh, the conspiracies are found in the 0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:42.320 attempts to cover up things, right, not the original act. 0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:46.239 So uh yeah, it depends upon whom you ask. If 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:49.240 we want to be technical, we'll get to the official 0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:53.120 conclusions and why experts still question those, But maybe we 0:30:53.360 --> 0:30:57.920 spend some more time on the primary source information about 0:30:58.600 --> 0:31:03.360 the sightings. The first person to visibly clock those lights, Yeah, 0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:07.160 that would be Bill Startup. That's his name. 0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:11.240 That's his name, Bill started We got Davy Crockett and 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:13.880 Bill start old Billy Startup. But he was not a 0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:17.840 tech bro. In fact, when Bill and the crew first 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:20.880 reported the lights, he was at a loss for what 0:31:21.600 --> 0:31:24.520 this thing might be. He did not have words to 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:28.200 describe it. So he was left a bit flummoxed, much 0:31:28.320 --> 0:31:29.840 like the fellow in that clip we heard, and so 0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:30.920 he said, what it was? 0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:35.400 We do not know? That's all I wish I knew. 0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:39.440 He's one of the pilots, along with Bob guard right, who. 0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:42.280 Was in the clip though, Matt, did we hear from 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:42.640 this guy? 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:44.280 We have not heard of. 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:47.720 We haven't heard from Bill startup? Bill Bill startups. The 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:50.640 pilot who has to who has to call this in 0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:54.800 and it has to say, as you as you do, Oh, 0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:56.400 what it was? We don't know? 0:31:57.040 --> 0:31:58.240 I had to say, we do not know. 0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:00.880 It's so intense. I wish I do. 0:32:01.520 --> 0:32:05.440 Yeah, well, yeah, it's so interesting to see those guys 0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:08.080 in interviews after a long time and recalling it and 0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:09.880 just saying, dang, I really wish we knew what the 0:32:09.920 --> 0:32:12.160 heck that was, Like, yeah, that would be awesome if 0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:12.920 we knew what that was. 0:32:13.080 --> 0:32:16.880 They're not pissed, they're professionals. They're not wing nuts. They 0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:21.480 are people trying to do their job. And when you're 0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:28.440 doing when you are working in aviation, your least favorite 0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:32.960 thing is an unanswered question. That's that's the issue, because 0:32:32.960 --> 0:32:35.520 if you know what a problem is, if you can 0:32:35.600 --> 0:32:39.720 identify what's happening. Then you you are on third base 0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:41.800 to the home run of figuring out how to fix 0:32:41.880 --> 0:32:44.840 it right. But if it's inexplicable, then you don't know 0:32:45.240 --> 0:32:48.840 which questions to begin asking. So let's go to John 0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:52.800 Cordy briefly mentioned earlier. This is the radio operator out 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:55.720 of Wellington on the first night of the sightings, and 0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:58.480 he had a bit of humor about the strange event 0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:03.760 because atc guys are so cool man, so stressed out, 0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:08.320 but you gotta let stress roll off your back like 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:11.640 water off a duck. So this guy says, we saw 0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:16.240 some little targets on a radar just Dowt off of Blenheim. 0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:19.640 Part of my pronunciation Cape Campbell Way. And we joked 0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:23.200 there was Father Christmas having a practice run with Rudolph 0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:26.200 in the front because it was just before Christmas. And 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:28.720 I was like, oh, come on, man, you're cool. I 0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:30.800 was that always does this. 0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:37.240 Live updates, stand up there having a laugh, Give. 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.640 Me a break, it's amazing. He continues in a more 0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:44.600 serious tone too, after he does the Father Christmas bit, 0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:48.520 which again, nice one, John, He says, this target then 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:51.840 moved toward the argacy. Let's remember that's our cargo plane 0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:55.520 carrying the newspaper crates. The target quote turned with it. 0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:58.600 The argacy then quote tracked it with it for a 0:33:58.680 --> 0:34:01.640 good twenty to thirty min files. The target and the 0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:05.560 aircraft were at ninety degrees to each other the whole time, 0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:10.880 and Vern Powell's aircraft said that they could see a 0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:14.480 big red light that was definitely airborne, and we got 0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:18.000 to hit that factor real quick. There was another aircraft 0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:21.160 that was close enough to observe this as well. So 0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:23.759 now we don't just have one group of people in 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:26.200 the skies. We have two planes in the sky. 0:34:26.840 --> 0:34:30.720 Yeah, Vern Powell and Ian Peiri, they were the first 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:34.520 plane that saw this. Those are the fellows right that 0:34:35.320 --> 0:34:38.840 were actually hanging out with John Cordy in the very beginning, 0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:44.680 having that communication. Then those other two officers startup and guard. 0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:48.200 They are pilots. When the news crew went up on 0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:49.560 the thirtieth and. 0:34:49.560 --> 0:34:52.480 I think we have another quote da ling. Yeah, fast 0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:55.960 forward to the thirtieth. We mentioned that TV crew on 0:34:56.040 --> 0:34:59.840 the plane. We mentioned one of them, the journalists, Quentin Fogerty, 0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:05.440 and he is like everybody else on the craft, he 0:35:05.640 --> 0:35:10.080 is watching in alle bewilderment and no small degree of 0:35:10.160 --> 0:35:14.200 helplessness as these lights are. And I keep using this term, guys, 0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:16.920 it's just perfect for it. The lights are bird dogging 0:35:17.120 --> 0:35:20.280 their craft like Foo fighters in World War Two. Totally. 0:35:20.719 --> 0:35:24.320 And we do have a quote from Fogerty where he 0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.120 says the word pin pricks. 0:35:26.160 --> 0:35:28.640 I think again, And I'm sorry, guys if I didn't 0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:30.440 clock the audio of that, because that, to me is 0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:33.400 the classic test of a Kiwi accent. But here he 0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:35.440 says on the flight down, I'm not going to do 0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:38.480 the voice as well. What we basically saw were pin 0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:42.000 pricks of light that turned into great globes of light. 0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:45.040 We did hear him talking about globes of light earlier, 0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:47.880 and they were airborne and they were between us and 0:35:48.040 --> 0:35:50.279 the coast because we could see the coast and we 0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:53.640 could see the sea and we could see these things 0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:55.759 shining down. There's a lot of seas there. 0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:59.200 And then we have another sound clip we'd like to 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:02.560 play from you from again to some of the footage 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:03.920 we were referencing earlier. 0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:07.480 Yeah, you can find this on the Kai Kora UFOs 0:36:07.560 --> 0:36:10.480 Dash in nineteen seventy eight, written and produced by Paul Davidson. 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:14.560 Find it on YouTube. Here is a clip of these fellows. 0:36:14.880 --> 0:36:17.279 I think it's a couple of different people describing what 0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:21.000 they were seeing on that return flight from christ Church 0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:21.800 to Wellington. 0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:26.759 They were brilliant white, silvery white starbus. 0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:30.160 Was unusual that they were going vertically up and down 0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:33.280 at a rate that, in my view, precluded. 0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:34.640 Them from being any thing that I've known about, like 0:36:34.719 --> 0:36:35.640 helicopters already. 0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:38.880 I'm now looking over towards the right of the aircraft 0:36:38.960 --> 0:36:42.239 and we have an object inferred by Weddings Breda. It's 0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:45.680 been following us quite a while. It's about four miles 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:47.960 away and it looks like the very faith start. But 0:36:48.040 --> 0:36:51.920 then it's a very bright, white, brillant light. 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:57.160 I said, this is just a little bit fine. 0:36:57.200 --> 0:36:59.120 Then there we go. 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:05.600 Mmm. Yeah. So again we're hearing different instances of people 0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:08.719 reporting very similar experiences. 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:11.200 Yeah, the first voice you heard was Bob Guard, who's 0:37:11.200 --> 0:37:13.440 one of the pilots on that flight. And then you 0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:17.319 hear Quentin Fogerty replying with exactly what he's seeing doing 0:37:17.360 --> 0:37:18.960 the reporter in situ thing. 0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:24.040 And so now we have people with firsthand experience speaking 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:29.480 with specific knowledge and specific description of what they witnessed. 0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:34.360 The witnesses here all report seeing similar things. They're not 0:37:34.640 --> 0:37:38.759 changing or really embellishing their stories, and it doesn't sound 0:37:38.880 --> 0:37:42.280 like they had time to work together right and hatch 0:37:42.400 --> 0:37:46.719 some sort of universal narrative. They all are saying there 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:51.120 are large, brightly lit things that are moving to high speeds, 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:55.320 that are making sudden turns which would be impossible for 0:37:55.600 --> 0:37:59.640 physical human made craft at the time type stuff. 0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:04.000 They're behaving in ways that science cannot fully explain. The 0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:06.600 speed with which they go from the water to the air, 0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:08.319 and then this, you know, the speed, the way they're 0:38:08.320 --> 0:38:09.440 maneuvering exactly. 0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:12.120 Where they appear to and they're explained from their perspective rights. 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:14.200 Yeah, it should be noted that many of the witnesses 0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:18.239 saw one larger bright light and then several at least 0:38:18.320 --> 0:38:22.000 two smaller lights. Yes, that were they're seeing at the 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:24.759 same time, and those three lights would come together, and 0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:27.239 sometimes they would shoot off into different directions and then 0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:28.400 return back together. 0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:29.520 Very strange. 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:33.640 That's like that's close encounters type vibes, or like that's 0:38:33.640 --> 0:38:35.319 the way we've seen UFOs depict. 0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:37.000 I think there was an episode of The X Files too, 0:38:37.040 --> 0:38:38.520 where there were those kids that were. 0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:41.839 Kind of spying on the site where there were these 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:44.279 like spinny light things kind of moving around, and then. 0:38:44.239 --> 0:38:47.000 I forget exactly how that episode went. But well, the 0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:50.600 idea too is we're telling you the most consistent stuff. 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:54.320 So the number does change based on the eyewitness accounts. 0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:57.320 We're not even counting the hundreds of folks on the 0:38:57.440 --> 0:39:01.200 ground who confirm sightings multiple sites around the same time. 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:05.400 It's definitely not counting the count I can't believe here 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:08.520 with that. It's not counting the countless other folks, including 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:12.880 experts who later analyze the film footage from the plane 0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:16.960 from the ground, especially after so many people are primed 0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:20.400 to expect this right, are turning their eyes to the 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:27.360 night sky and wondering if they two, we'll see something incomprehensible. So, riddle, 0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:31.479 is this, what do the authorities say after it gets 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:34.719 after it gets past a certain threshold of attention, you 0:39:35.120 --> 0:39:38.480 as the government do have to make some kind of response, 0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:42.480 even if you just say, nah, it's a windy house, 0:39:42.719 --> 0:39:43.399 no ghost here. 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:49.920 Yeah, you saw what your eyes thought were UFO, but 0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:52.200 really it was an illusion. 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:59.800 Michael David blamed them, Yeah, David blained and David blamed 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:05.200 them because the Ministry of Defense publicly initially said, Hey, 0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:09.759 these sightings are merely optical illusions, perhaps the result of 0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:16.120 atmospheric phenomena. How many of you are meteorologists, bump bump up. 0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:20.880 But witnesses who are involved, especially our primary aviators, are 0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:25.080 protagonists to the story. They're not having it. They feel 0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:28.879 if we're being honest, they feel there's an attempt at gaslighting, 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:32.600 and they're professionally offended. Yes they should be. 0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:36.680 Well, somebody came over and said, you've forgotten about the 0:40:36.840 --> 0:40:37.480 radar You. 0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:44.400 Exactly exactly, I mean Startup in particular, just for that, 0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:49.720 I just love the name. Startup in Particular went on record, 0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:53.200 and you can hear him. We're jumping around time a 0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:56.440 little bit, but you can hear him listening out various 0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:59.880 proposed explanations. He's like, Oh, they said it was v 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:02.680 they said it was Jupiter, they said it was harbor 0:41:02.800 --> 0:41:06.640 lights or squid boats. But I saw these lights doing 0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:10.280 like one hundred and forty knots, and harbor lights don't 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:15.960 do that. Usually they're stationary if they're built the way 0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:17.360 they're supposed to be built. 0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:21.680 Oh, you know, and that explanation in particular, calling out 0:41:21.920 --> 0:41:25.279 other planetary bodies. That's something that came into play with 0:41:25.360 --> 0:41:30.360 Frederick Valentich over in Australia. The primary explanations of that 0:41:30.800 --> 0:41:33.800 early on were that he got really confused when he 0:41:33.880 --> 0:41:36.680 saw some of the planet lights. He thought they were 0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:40.440 following him, and then he put his plane into basically 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:43.960 a downward spiral as he's watching these lights that are 0:41:44.040 --> 0:41:47.239 now reflected off the ocean. But you know, come on, 0:41:47.920 --> 0:41:51.680 that just seems I mean, I get it that people 0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:56.360 are looking in this instance, the mod Ministry, defense, whoever 0:41:56.640 --> 0:41:58.759 that's looking at this stuff is trying to find an 0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:03.560 explanation that makes right. It doesn't have to be anything weird, guys, 0:42:03.600 --> 0:42:06.719 it could be this, but it just seems so insulting 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:10.840 to anybody who can fly a plane like that, right. 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:15.080 Right, and again, if you listen to our episode on Valentich, 0:42:15.160 --> 0:42:22.000 you will see similar proposed explanations for what occurred in 0:42:22.080 --> 0:42:24.719 that tragedy. His body has yet to be recovered, by 0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:27.800 the way, here in twenty twenty five as we record. 0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:29.839 Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It was the exact same 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:33.520 explanations given just a couple of months before this thing 0:42:33.600 --> 0:42:34.000 went down. 0:42:35.000 --> 0:42:40.920 Yeah, and the idea here is battle of narratives. Perhaps again, 0:42:41.040 --> 0:42:45.360 please do check out that episode on Valentich. I agreed, 0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:49.000 there's an eerie parallel which makes us worth a re listen. 0:42:50.239 --> 0:42:54.839 We also know that, as we're going to learn after 0:42:54.920 --> 0:42:59.520 our break here, the official initial conclusion of the Ministry 0:42:59.560 --> 0:43:04.160 of Defense was not entirely true, very Emily Dickinson style, 0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:07.520 tell the truth, but tell it slants, because you see, 0:43:07.560 --> 0:43:10.440 the whole time they were saying this to the public, 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:13.959 New Zealand and a few other groups, few other friend 0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:18.959 groups were intensely interested in figuring out what the heck 0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:22.880 was going on, and so away from the press, they 0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:26.680 launched that inquiry we mentioned earlier. We'll take a break 0:43:26.800 --> 0:43:29.000 for a word from our sponsors and tell you what 0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:37.440 they found. We're back first theories, squid votes, all right, 0:43:37.640 --> 0:43:42.200 just the bubble here real quick, because I don't know 0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:44.560 about you guys. I was really excited in the very 0:43:45.960 --> 0:43:50.000 downtrodden when I learned that they did not mean squids 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:54.000 piloting squid made craft. I know I was thinking that too. 0:43:54.480 --> 0:43:57.360 It was a fun image. Though that's a cool We 0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:01.720 always have that moment where we thought we will always 0:44:01.800 --> 0:44:07.879 have that moment. Well, squid boats are cool, though sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:44:07.960 --> 0:44:11.600 they're a big part of the maritime economy. There's that 0:44:12.400 --> 0:44:15.960 Oh my gosh, we're trying to be cool dads, all right, Yeah. 0:44:16.160 --> 0:44:19.319 Well, let's talk about why they thought maybe that was it. Yeah, 0:44:19.719 --> 0:44:24.440 squid boats use big old lights shining down into the 0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:27.839 water to try and attract squid. So you can imagine 0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:30.759 that if there's some kind of reflection in glass. If 0:44:30.800 --> 0:44:35.440 there's some that's usually one of the proposals. Right, The 0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:40.040 pilot sees light that's actually on the water reflecting off 0:44:40.080 --> 0:44:43.399 their glass, and it appears to be moving around if 0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:46.879 the plane changes course in any way, it's like, oh wow, 0:44:46.920 --> 0:44:49.160 it's moving across my screen. 0:44:48.920 --> 0:44:52.480 There, or reflecting off cloud cover. M you know what 0:44:52.600 --> 0:44:55.880 I mean. This is the thing I do with with 0:44:56.200 --> 0:44:58.560 my cats. You know, you take a shiny mirror or 0:44:58.600 --> 0:45:01.239 reflect light and they chase the image of the light 0:45:01.360 --> 0:45:05.440 the way they chase a red dot or something like that. 0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:08.399 So the explanation is similar there, and we can see 0:45:08.400 --> 0:45:12.320 why that would be offensive to some professional aviators and 0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:18.600 the other thing. Okay, so this inquiry doesn't end in 0:45:18.800 --> 0:45:24.440 a specific, ironclad conclusion. It ends in something like a 0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:26.840 pitch meeting. So they say, oh, you don't like the 0:45:26.880 --> 0:45:31.160 squid boat explanation, Well, what about this? What if they're 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:33.920 like unburned meteors. 0:45:34.600 --> 0:45:39.000 Ah, now we're getting somewhere, because that would clock radar, right, 0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:43.440 unlike the squid boat reflection. We don't get radar from that. Okay. 0:45:43.800 --> 0:45:47.640 And there was a meteor shower around that time in 0:45:47.760 --> 0:45:48.200 that area. 0:45:48.680 --> 0:45:52.960 Yeah, yeah, okay, sure, big swing. Getting closer as far 0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:56.520 as explanations go. And then they said something, you know, 0:45:56.760 --> 0:46:00.120 very similar to the squid boat idea. They said, this 0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:04.800 could have been lights from trains or other earthly vehicles, 0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:12.000 atmospheric shenanigans, cloud physics. You guys know about planes. About 0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:14.280 how much do you know about astrophysics? 0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:16.960 Huh, cold, cold, they are right. 0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:19.680 And then they said, or what if it was light 0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:23.239 from planets like Venus and Jupiter. And at this point 0:46:23.280 --> 0:46:25.640 the pilots are going, I hate you guys. Why are 0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:26.160 you like this? 0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:29.880 Why aren't you do this? Can it just be we 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:32.200 saw something crazy that we don't know about yet? 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:37.320 Yeah, right exactly, which would be the Okham's razor of it. 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:44.640 Governmental institutions generally do not like admitting they cannot explain 0:46:44.719 --> 0:46:49.880 a thing, right, So by this point there's the mass 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:53.040 of the public. The Hoi polloi right, the vox popular. 0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:57.960 The Kaikoro lights have become a cultural phenomenon. So from 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:02.600 the eighteen nineteen eighties, sorry I'm dating myself the nineteen 0:47:02.760 --> 0:47:06.759 eighties to now, even the most skeptical of locals in 0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:11.160 Kiwi communities will occasionally look up into the night sky 0:47:11.280 --> 0:47:16.359 around December and they'll say, hey, maybe it'll happen again, 0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:19.400 Maybe I'll see some UFOs visit at the end of 0:47:19.480 --> 0:47:22.600 the earthly year. Before we go, though, we do have 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:26.919 to give a shout out to, of course, various researchers 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:30.320 who have analyzed the footage. Countless people have done this. 0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:33.000 You can see it all over the internet. One of 0:47:33.080 --> 0:47:38.520 the most prominent is a moufon guy scientist named doctor 0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:39.520 Bruce mccabee. 0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:45.440 That's right, doctor Bruce maccabee, American scientists and ufologist with 0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:49.560 an MS and PhD in physics. Got some bona fides there, 0:47:50.480 --> 0:47:54.600 who's also just you know, as a little bonus an 0:47:54.680 --> 0:47:57.040 optical data processing expert. 0:47:57.520 --> 0:47:59.560 He concluded that the footage had. 0:47:59.520 --> 0:48:05.040 Captured the images and movements of the genuine article UFO. 0:48:05.800 --> 0:48:09.359 H yeah, and we've got quotes from him you can 0:48:09.520 --> 0:48:14.960 again read these or see them in various documentaries. He 0:48:15.160 --> 0:48:18.480 notes some of the same stuff we're saying that a 0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:22.640 big differentiator here is that radar plays a role in 0:48:22.800 --> 0:48:28.520 these sightings, So unlike a lot, here's what you get. 0:48:28.600 --> 0:48:33.840 Often you will often get UFO reports that are radar 0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:38.200 only right, so there's an ATC somewhere, or there's a 0:48:38.480 --> 0:48:45.239 totally legitimate thing abroad for some reason that gets a 0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:50.600 little pupupew on its radar and there's no eyewitness accounts 0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:53.600 because it happens in a place where people don't usually 0:48:53.719 --> 0:48:54.160 hang out. 0:48:54.719 --> 0:48:58.600 Yes, and you know who has really good radar technology, militaries, 0:48:58.960 --> 0:49:02.320 So it's often a military that goes, hey, what the 0:49:02.360 --> 0:49:05.440 heck is that over there, as in the instance in 0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:08.880 nineteen fifty three with Felix Monclaw where there was a 0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:11.520 radar blip in an area where there shouldn't be a 0:49:11.680 --> 0:49:15.040 radar blip because it's controlled airspace. So you send out 0:49:15.080 --> 0:49:17.560 a pilot to go check out what's going on, and 0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:22.279 in Felix's case, he and his plane disappeared. But that's 0:49:22.360 --> 0:49:25.960 beside the point. The whole point is the radar sightings 0:49:26.040 --> 0:49:29.000 occur a crazy number of times that we will never 0:49:29.120 --> 0:49:29.960 hear about. 0:49:30.080 --> 0:49:35.520 Right, because they're internal and there as a result, they're 0:49:35.719 --> 0:49:39.239 something that would maybe not be helpful to report to 0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:44.160 the public because in doing so, you're revealing your surveillance capability, 0:49:44.400 --> 0:49:50.120 your collection methods, all your fun stuff. Going back to maccabee, 0:49:50.800 --> 0:49:56.479 the next thing he reports is that it is more 0:49:56.680 --> 0:50:00.200 interesting to see. So we've got two things, right. Our 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:04.640 only identification often internal for governments, and we've got visual 0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:10.680 only identification, often associated with civilians or non aviation experts. 0:50:10.800 --> 0:50:14.440 And when they are reporting something, there's often not a 0:50:14.520 --> 0:50:18.200 lot of instrumentation. We're not dismissing, we're just saying there's 0:50:18.239 --> 0:50:21.440 often not a lot of instrumentation that would confirm what 0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:24.920 they were saying happened at that time. So this means 0:50:25.320 --> 0:50:27.880 that we've got a golden goose here. We've got a 0:50:28.080 --> 0:50:33.120 ven diagram of a radar visual case. Witnesses are reporting 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:38.120 something going in the same direction, obeying the same dynamics, 0:50:38.200 --> 0:50:42.400 the same trajectory and path as a target identified or 0:50:42.400 --> 0:50:47.520 a thing identified on radar. This is winning the lottery twice. 0:50:48.080 --> 0:50:51.240 Yeah, man, because that's why this one is so exciting. 0:50:52.600 --> 0:50:55.399 So then you've got this amazing person, Macabe who's looking 0:50:55.440 --> 0:50:59.840 at the film footage that this camera person, Davy Crockett, 0:51:00.080 --> 0:51:05.640 Dave he saw and filmed again with a handheld film 0:51:05.760 --> 0:51:08.920 camera in a cockpit that's you know, in an airplane 0:51:08.960 --> 0:51:12.840 that's in flight. And if you're serious, like a sixteen 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:17.759 millimeters yes, insane, So imagine the heft and weight of 0:51:17.960 --> 0:51:20.680 this huge film canister above the lens. 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:21.040 And he's. 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:27.239 Yeah, yes, and he's leaning over people and through instrumentation 0:51:27.480 --> 0:51:29.880 to try and get footage. And when you look at 0:51:29.920 --> 0:51:34.600 the footage, it looks like that what you're imagining, crazy jumpy. Uh, 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:37.960 you do see objects as he's trying to get focus 0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:40.279 in the black sky with a tiny little thing. 0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:43.480 When you're bouncing around like that and you're filming items 0:51:43.520 --> 0:51:45.440 that are way off in the horizon, you're gonna get 0:51:45.480 --> 0:51:46.000 all kinds of. 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:49.839 Yeah. 0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:54.080 So that's why it's massively important and incredible that we 0:51:54.239 --> 0:51:57.239 have the words here of mister maccabee, who is a 0:51:57.800 --> 0:52:00.919 specialist in checking out that kind of stuf. Knowing, Okay, 0:52:01.120 --> 0:52:03.719 is the is that a lensing effect, is that the 0:52:03.880 --> 0:52:06.680 movement of the camera, Is that the actual shape of 0:52:06.719 --> 0:52:09.440 the object or is it out of focus? He's he's 0:52:09.520 --> 0:52:13.160 looking at all of this stuff. And he continues with 0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:14.239 a quote saying. 0:52:14.400 --> 0:52:19.360 These New Zealand sightings may be the most quote unquote instrumented. 0:52:20.120 --> 0:52:24.839 What's unpack that in civilian ufology with multiple witnesses, two 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:29.640 independent tape recordings made during the sightings, color movie film, 0:52:30.040 --> 0:52:33.280 and ground and air radar instrue. 0:52:33.320 --> 0:52:34.680 I guess he's just referring to like. 0:52:34.760 --> 0:52:37.200 All of the cross check kind of like you know, 0:52:37.520 --> 0:52:40.799 parallels and and verifiable data points. 0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:45.440 Objective non qualitative confirmation that. 0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:47.960 Line up, and that there's like a timeline that can 0:52:48.000 --> 0:52:51.080 be confirmed for that is a big doub I'm shocked, 0:52:51.160 --> 0:52:53.600 guys that I'd not heard of this outside of this discussion. 0:52:53.719 --> 0:52:57.239 This is seems like it would be a bigger deal that, Yeah, 0:52:57.600 --> 0:53:04.040 the radar has has one opinion, yes this is here 0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:07.279 or no this is not. It's not going to give 0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:12.200 you some sort of laborious interview process about how it 0:53:12.320 --> 0:53:14.400 felt when a clock to a thing going from a 0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:15.920 to his head exactly exactly. 0:53:15.960 --> 0:53:18.200 And frankly, I mean the reports from these guys are 0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:19.400 pretty dispassionate too. 0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:20.759 We're not seeing a. 0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:23.399 Whole lot of like hyperbolic kind of talk. 0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:28.240 They seem real, steadfast, and they're you know, reporting their observations. 0:53:28.320 --> 0:53:31.239 You got to keep it together, ye crying. Crying is 0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:32.080 for when you land. 0:53:33.640 --> 0:53:36.480 Yeah, well, and you see a real desire to know 0:53:36.680 --> 0:53:40.279 what the heck happened. In later interviews, several of the 0:53:40.400 --> 0:53:43.960 pilots were approached by Maccabee with you know, his findings 0:53:44.000 --> 0:53:47.759 after he analyzed the footage, and these pilots had given 0:53:47.880 --> 0:53:51.440 initial estimates of like how large they think the object 0:53:51.680 --> 0:53:54.279 is in the moment, how far away they think it is, 0:53:54.400 --> 0:53:57.520 and how fast it's traveling. One of the pilots comes 0:53:57.560 --> 0:54:00.880 forward and says, Maccabee told him that the object was 0:54:01.280 --> 0:54:04.680 around five miles away from your plane and it was 0:54:04.800 --> 0:54:08.680 probably as big as a two story building. After he's 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:12.279 analyzed the optics, which again you have to take an 0:54:12.320 --> 0:54:15.920 expert's you know, viewpoint and say, Okay, that expert knows 0:54:15.960 --> 0:54:18.200 what they're talking about, knows what they're seeing. You also 0:54:18.239 --> 0:54:21.239 are taking into account the pilot's you know, vision and 0:54:21.400 --> 0:54:24.800 their estimates based on knowledge and wisdom. But at the 0:54:24.840 --> 0:54:27.440 same time it does make you realize, in the moment, 0:54:27.880 --> 0:54:30.680 when a human being, any of us, is experiencing something 0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:34.360 like this, we're trusting our eyes and our ears and 0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:36.560 all of our senses, but they may be a little 0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:39.680 off right, and you may also remember it a little off. 0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:43.279 But having a piece of footage and that radar like 0:54:43.360 --> 0:54:46.600 that let somebody even out of space and time observe 0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:49.759 it and say, oh my god, I think it was 0:54:49.920 --> 0:54:51.960 this because of you know, X, Y and Z. 0:54:53.280 --> 0:54:57.800 Yeah. And we also, as we mentioned with his bona fides, 0:54:58.120 --> 0:55:02.160 doctor mccabee is a as a career long member and 0:55:02.280 --> 0:55:05.400 champion and move on. So that might put some folks 0:55:05.440 --> 0:55:09.080 in the crowd automatically off, but we can tell you 0:55:09.600 --> 0:55:12.600 his findings. And he wrote a ton of stuff, by 0:55:12.600 --> 0:55:16.080 the way, not just about this but about other dodgy 0:55:16.239 --> 0:55:23.120 cases of UFO observations. And he was publicly ignored by 0:55:23.200 --> 0:55:26.439 the government of New Zealand. So you could say, hey, 0:55:26.600 --> 0:55:31.040 this is a cultural moment like Mothman out in Point Pleasant, 0:55:31.080 --> 0:55:35.879 West Virginia. You could say that, except that in twenty ten, 0:55:36.239 --> 0:55:40.080 the New Zealand military released a treasure their own Project 0:55:40.160 --> 0:55:44.520 Blue Book, really a treasure trove of previously classified reports 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:48.439 that dated from two thousand and nine all the way 0:55:48.520 --> 0:55:52.000 back to nineteen fifty four, which means it naturally includes 0:55:52.440 --> 0:55:56.719 the Kakolites, and was released due to the Official Records Act, 0:55:56.800 --> 0:55:59.959 which is sort of the New Zealand version of FOYIA, 0:56:00.480 --> 0:56:05.000 the Freedom of Information Act. It's heavily redacted. Everybody got 0:56:05.040 --> 0:56:08.280 a deal on black highlighters right when they made these laws, 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:11.520 so that you won't see a lot of specific names 0:56:11.760 --> 0:56:16.240 or other sensitive material. But we're talking two thousand pages 0:56:16.280 --> 0:56:22.200 of documents, most of which involves weird stuff in the sky, 0:56:22.400 --> 0:56:26.759 weird lights of the sky. And we found a we 0:56:26.880 --> 0:56:31.080 found a funny moment from from just prior to the 0:56:31.200 --> 0:56:35.279 release of this from the Royal Air Force themselves, and 0:56:35.360 --> 0:56:37.000 they were trying to get in front of it so 0:56:37.239 --> 0:56:39.200 hard we can we do the quote. 0:56:39.560 --> 0:56:43.439 Air Force Squadron leader Cave Tamriiki said the Defense Force 0:56:43.560 --> 0:56:47.120 did not have the resources to investigate UFO sightings and 0:56:47.200 --> 0:56:49.920 would not be commenting on the files contents. 0:56:50.160 --> 0:56:55.960 Mike, come on, come on, I hate when people do that, 0:56:56.520 --> 0:57:00.279 right Like, Hey, I'm gonna tell you something and that's 0:57:00.320 --> 0:57:04.360 it and no more questions. So speaking to the dominion Post, 0:57:04.760 --> 0:57:09.120 Tamriki notes, quote, this is understandable, all right, I'm being 0:57:09.160 --> 0:57:12.560 a jerk. This is understandable. Quote. We've just been a 0:57:12.719 --> 0:57:17.160 collection point for the information. We don't investigate or make reports. 0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:20.800 We haven't substantiated anything. 0:57:20.720 --> 0:57:22.600 In them, but here you go. 0:57:23.080 --> 0:57:26.880 But here it is. So we're not in charge of this. 0:57:27.960 --> 0:57:33.080 We have no comment. But you asked, have we complied? 0:57:33.240 --> 0:57:34.800 You can see why they wanted to get in front 0:57:34.840 --> 0:57:38.080 of it. The documents have a lot of wild stuff, 0:57:38.320 --> 0:57:42.040 again none of which is co signed by the Air Force. 0:57:42.880 --> 0:57:47.360 Alleged examples of alien writing, drawing, draw it, yeah, I know, 0:57:47.560 --> 0:57:50.600 drawings of flying saucers. And then here's one for the 0:57:50.640 --> 0:57:54.880 stargate fans in the crowd, in depth descriptions of extraterrestrials 0:57:55.040 --> 0:57:57.160 wearing Pharaoh mask. 0:57:57.680 --> 0:57:57.840 Oh. 0:57:59.240 --> 0:58:05.760 Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. It's a good story from 0:58:06.320 --> 0:58:09.520 what the Air Force is telling us here. They for 0:58:09.760 --> 0:58:12.880 decades they got these reports and then they just put 0:58:12.920 --> 0:58:15.440 them here. Let me get one. They put them in 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:17.800 a file folder. You know what I mean. I'm holding 0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:22.480 up a file folder, all right. That one's about cattle. 0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:23.720 So the U. 0:58:26.400 --> 0:58:31.200 So any agency, of course, is going to take pains 0:58:31.240 --> 0:58:34.640 to say, look, we just got what came in because 0:58:34.680 --> 0:58:38.360 we drew the short straw right and we didn't verify anything. 0:58:39.120 --> 0:58:42.760 But they also spend a lot of time in these 0:58:42.840 --> 0:58:48.120 documents on kai Kora specifically, on Kaikora specifically. The evidence 0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:51.520 gives lie to the original story. Guys. The original story 0:58:52.200 --> 0:58:56.400 is that New Zealand said stop panicking over weather phenomena. 0:58:57.000 --> 0:59:01.200 The real story is that internally they lost their bag 0:59:01.360 --> 0:59:04.920 over this. You know, they launched this inquiry because they 0:59:05.000 --> 0:59:07.800 were concerned. And I love the point of context we're 0:59:07.800 --> 0:59:10.560 bringing up here. It's still Cold War, right, They're concerned 0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:15.959 that there might be some vaguely described intruders. They don't 0:59:16.000 --> 0:59:21.120 define the intruders. They just say intruders, sort of like 0:59:21.160 --> 0:59:24.120 when your dog barks, it just says stranger. 0:59:24.360 --> 0:59:26.880 And anytime someone comes into my house, whether it's my 0:59:26.960 --> 0:59:27.800 kid or to Frida, I. 0:59:27.920 --> 0:59:32.120 Just go intruder, show yourself. You know, that's do you really? 0:59:32.280 --> 0:59:32.440 I do. 0:59:32.640 --> 0:59:37.000 It's sort of a bit. It's a joke. That's why 0:59:37.000 --> 0:59:37.920 I'm so paranoid. 0:59:38.000 --> 0:59:38.160 Man. 0:59:38.640 --> 0:59:40.520 We used to hang out. I would. I would get 0:59:40.560 --> 0:59:42.600 in front of your house and then text you to 0:59:42.720 --> 0:59:45.080 let out. You know, I was there before I touched 0:59:45.080 --> 0:59:45.400 the At. 0:59:45.360 --> 0:59:48.040 Least I didn't have one of those like paint cannon things. 0:59:48.560 --> 0:59:51.840 You remember those security cameras that would like pelt like 0:59:52.280 --> 0:59:54.200 intruders with paintballs. 0:59:54.760 --> 0:59:56.520 That's kind of cool. Oh, we talked about it. It 0:59:56.640 --> 0:59:58.880 was a really bad idea. It was like some strange 0:59:58.920 --> 1:00:03.120 news thing we talked about. Well, mack, cool idea. Well, 1:00:03.360 --> 1:00:06.800 depending on which side of the door you're on, So 1:00:07.240 --> 1:00:12.160 the inquiry here does make some Again, they end with 1:00:12.240 --> 1:00:14.360 a bunch of pitches laying well, maybe it's blah blah 1:00:14.360 --> 1:00:16.640 blahor moybees blah blah blah have you thought about blah 1:00:16.640 --> 1:00:22.120 blah blah. But their inquiry reaches one interesting thing. They 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:26.800 eventually say, okay, we'll play if then. So the if 1:00:26.880 --> 1:00:31.840 then game. If the objects did exist, and if the 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:37.480 multiple observations of those objects are correct, if they are accurate, 1:00:38.000 --> 1:00:42.040 then those objects logically have to be traveling at around 1:00:42.400 --> 1:00:47.520 ten eight hundred miles per hour, which for anybody playing 1:00:47.520 --> 1:00:49.280 along at home, is pretty fast. 1:00:50.240 --> 1:00:52.680 Yes, maybe too fast for a lot of the stuff. 1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:55.240 You know, we were going to bring in stuff about 1:00:55.280 --> 1:00:58.439 drone technology that we talked about that was in full 1:00:58.480 --> 1:01:01.160 effect in the eighties and they're been tests on like 1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:06.360 radio controlled drone like things since World War Two. So 1:01:06.480 --> 1:01:08.320 like there's all kinds of weird stuff that could be 1:01:08.440 --> 1:01:13.040 up there that maybe some other governments operating and testing. Sure, 1:01:13.120 --> 1:01:14.800 sure would be weird to be testing it that close 1:01:14.920 --> 1:01:16.560 New Zealand if you're another country. 1:01:17.520 --> 1:01:21.120 But you know, I don't know. I mean, if it's 1:01:21.200 --> 1:01:24.600 Cold War, right, and it's the Allies against the Axis, 1:01:25.120 --> 1:01:28.560 you know, just think. 1:01:28.560 --> 1:01:31.240 Again, nineteen seventy eight is like high time there. 1:01:31.200 --> 1:01:33.640 For some of that stuff. Maybe it takes a village 1:01:34.120 --> 1:01:39.480 later later Nole's friends at the company, the CIA will 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:41.800 do you like I just three, I mean the US there. 1:01:42.400 --> 1:01:49.680 That's so they they analyzed this stuff on their own 1:01:50.200 --> 1:01:54.160 and they said, similar to what doctor mcabee said, who 1:01:54.400 --> 1:01:58.040 I suspect may have had some conversations, they said the 1:01:58.600 --> 1:02:02.360 quote large amount of docum minary evidence includes the recollection 1:02:02.520 --> 1:02:05.920 of seven witnesses to tape recordings made during the sightings, 1:02:06.400 --> 1:02:10.280 the detection of some unusual ground and airplane radar targets, 1:02:10.320 --> 1:02:15.960 and a sixteen millimeter color movie. So while they reached 1:02:16.800 --> 1:02:21.040 similar conclusions to those of New Zealand, the case is 1:02:21.160 --> 1:02:24.520 still out there. There's a curious wrinkle because we're telling 1:02:24.520 --> 1:02:28.520 you about this now declassified report as of twenty ten, 1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:35.160 or anthology of reports, but the documents, the original documents 1:02:35.280 --> 1:02:40.000 those reports are based on, are currently sealed up, still 1:02:40.080 --> 1:02:45.920 classified in New Zealand's national archive. Unless something changes, some 1:02:46.160 --> 1:02:49.920 of these original reports are not going to be released 1:02:50.120 --> 1:02:54.520 until twenty eighty. Are we still going to be making 1:02:54.560 --> 1:02:57.640 the show in twenty eighty? Guys? What are we? What's 1:02:57.680 --> 1:02:58.280 our situation? 1:02:58.440 --> 1:02:59.000 Who are we? 1:02:59.280 --> 1:02:59.480 Man? 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:00.640 What is this? 1:03:01.000 --> 1:03:01.840 What even are we? 1:03:02.840 --> 1:03:06.320 Well, we've got less than two thousand days until the singularity, 1:03:06.400 --> 1:03:09.840 according to some, So you know, we'll see what happens there. 1:03:10.480 --> 1:03:13.200 Whenever we say some we meet according to us in 1:03:13.360 --> 1:03:15.400 an earlier episode of our show. 1:03:17.720 --> 1:03:21.520 Yeah yeah, yeah, Well all those billionaires hanging out on 1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:25.360 New Zealand might get a real close encounter. We'll see 1:03:25.400 --> 1:03:28.040 what happens with all of that stuff. I do want 1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:32.120 to point really quickly just to that original broadcast that 1:03:32.360 --> 1:03:37.400 happened in nineteen seventy eight. I couldn't find an actual 1:03:37.440 --> 1:03:40.000 clip of that recording or an archived version of that. 1:03:40.160 --> 1:03:43.600 Did you guys locate that anywhere? Just a full stop. 1:03:43.680 --> 1:03:44.760 This is holding in one video. 1:03:45.360 --> 1:03:48.920 It's been You can find clips of it in larger things. 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:50.400 I think that's what we both found. 1:03:50.640 --> 1:03:53.520 We are looking for the original one. We're not sure 1:03:53.720 --> 1:03:57.280 if it is titled UFO The Closest Encounter, if that 1:03:57.360 --> 1:03:59.240 was the original broadcast or if that was like a 1:03:59.320 --> 1:04:02.560 rebroadcast right as we talked about, this footage was shown 1:04:02.600 --> 1:04:06.280 many many a time. If you can gain access to that, 1:04:06.440 --> 1:04:09.120 or you find it, please send it our way. We'll 1:04:09.120 --> 1:04:10.680 tell you how to contact us in a minute. But 1:04:10.840 --> 1:04:12.280 we want to see the full thing. 1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:15.320 Yeah, and for now, we'd love to ask for some 1:04:15.520 --> 1:04:20.000 help from our Kei week Conspiracy Realist spelled with ks. 1:04:20.960 --> 1:04:24.200 Do people in your neck of the Global woods still 1:04:24.320 --> 1:04:30.120 think of the Kaikoro Lights? How do people typically explain it? 1:04:30.440 --> 1:04:34.800 Is there anybody on the South Island who you know? Pops, 1:04:34.880 --> 1:04:41.600 open some wine or get some coffee as December waxes 1:04:41.680 --> 1:04:44.680 on and spend some time looking at the night sky? 1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:49.560 Why are certain things still classified? Was there at least 1:04:49.600 --> 1:04:53.400 some point stuff New Zealand didn't want you to know. 1:04:54.080 --> 1:04:56.760 We can't wait to your thoughts. You can always send 1:04:56.880 --> 1:04:59.840 us an email, especially if you want a random fact. 1:05:00.080 --> 1:05:02.680 You can call us on a telephone. You can find 1:05:02.760 --> 1:05:03.920 us on the line. 1:05:04.200 --> 1:05:07.320 Do find us in all of those places first and foremost, 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:09.720 not necessarily foremost, but first at least all on the 1:05:09.800 --> 1:05:12.200 lines at the handle conspiracy stuff where we exist on 1:05:12.280 --> 1:05:14.640 Facebook with our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy 1:05:14.720 --> 1:05:17.960 on x FKA, Twitter and on YouTube with video content 1:05:18.080 --> 1:05:22.600 galore for YouTube peruse and hopefully enjoy on Instagram and TikTok. However, 1:05:22.800 --> 1:05:24.240 we're conspiracy stuff show. 1:05:24.760 --> 1:05:27.840 Yes, one tiny little piece of information we forgot to 1:05:27.880 --> 1:05:32.160 add into this thing. There was a moment when these 1:05:32.280 --> 1:05:36.000 pilots with the journalists were flying and they're attempting to 1:05:36.160 --> 1:05:41.479 capture these lights. There's a moment when Wellington Radar told them, hey, guys, 1:05:41.680 --> 1:05:44.640 just heads up one of the lights. One of the 1:05:44.920 --> 1:05:48.560 objects is immediately behind you now so you can't physically 1:05:48.640 --> 1:05:52.320 see it, and it's doubled in size, so you know, 1:05:53.520 --> 1:05:54.280 get home safe. 1:05:55.040 --> 1:05:56.080 Do with that information? 1:05:57.120 --> 1:06:00.800 Yeah, just imagine call us, tell us how you would 1:06:00.800 --> 1:06:03.280 feel in that moment. That would be amazing. Call one 1:06:03.400 --> 1:06:07.240 eight three three st d WYTK. When you call in, 1:06:07.320 --> 1:06:10.200 it's a voicemail system. You've got three minutes. Give yourself 1:06:10.240 --> 1:06:12.320 a cool nickname and let us know within the message 1:06:12.360 --> 1:06:14.320 if we can use your name and message on the air. 1:06:14.760 --> 1:06:16.640 If you want to send us an email, you can 1:06:16.720 --> 1:06:16.960 do that. 1:06:17.280 --> 1:06:21.680 We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence 1:06:21.800 --> 1:06:24.200 we receive before we get to the rest of that. 1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:28.440 We have talked about the official inquiry some of those documents. 1:06:28.560 --> 1:06:30.640 If you'd like to read more on your own, you 1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:33.720 can find by emailing us directly. We'll give you the link, 1:06:33.800 --> 1:06:37.200 which is awkward to just announce on the air because 1:06:37.200 --> 1:06:42.000 it's government stuff. But if you yourself want to engage 1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:46.120 with the Official Information Act Request of New Zealand, just 1:06:46.240 --> 1:06:51.600 go to FYI dot org dot NZ and while you're online, 1:06:52.400 --> 1:06:55.040 hit us up for random fact here in the dark 1:06:55.320 --> 1:06:57.680 conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 1:07:16.240 --> 1:07:18.280 Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 1:07:18.400 --> 1:07:22.880 of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 1:07:23.000 --> 1:07:25.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.