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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.

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Speaker 3: Name is Noah.

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Speaker 4: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 5: We're joined as always with our super producer Dylan the

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Speaker 5: Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are here. That makes

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Speaker 5: this the stuff they don't want you to know. If

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Speaker 5: you are tuning in the evening, our listener mail publishes,

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Speaker 5: welcome to the very last day of July twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 5: That's right, it's July thirty first, which means August is imminent.

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Speaker 5: August is imminent, which means September is on the way,

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Speaker 5: which means October is on the way, which means we're

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Speaker 5: going to be out of boat.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: He got there, he got there, and we're gonna get

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Speaker 3: there too. On a boat.

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Speaker 2: I'm on a boat. Music of Lil YACHTI Yes, big

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Speaker 2: time excited. Have you been listening to the Lonely Island

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Speaker 2: Seth Meyers podcast. If you have not, you should.

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Speaker 3: It's the second time you mentioned that I have not.

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Speaker 3: But I need a new comedy pot in my life.

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Speaker 3: So I'm on a map. It's so good.

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Speaker 5: Have you guys listened to some of the hottest new

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Speaker 5: music created by none other than our super producer, Dylan

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Speaker 5: the Tennessee pal Fagan. He's going he's going through the

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Speaker 5: Rue de Bega phase, you guys, It's true.

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Speaker 3: Well, so he also writes proper uh melancholically tinged indie

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Speaker 3: pop music and and some of that make you booty shake.

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Speaker 3: To check him out, just google the man Dylan Fagan

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Speaker 3: on all the streamers.

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Speaker 5: Of note and check out his uh his alter ego,

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Speaker 5: a totally unassociated act who happens to look a little

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Speaker 5: bit like him.

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Speaker 4: Donnie La Boy.

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Speaker 2: Dylan, Can we, at some point on your band camp

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Speaker 2: get a super cut of Roota Bega's please?

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Speaker 3: Oh it must happen? Oh, absolutely yeah, including this one.

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Speaker 3: Please go. I guess.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to rout ut am. I'm your host, Vega T.

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Speaker 6: Bell.

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Speaker 3: It's the small hours of the night and we're taking

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Speaker 3: your calls. It looks like we have pe Tato on

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Speaker 3: the line. Hey, veg on time.

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Speaker 4: Caller, First time listener, there's a Rodabagan conspiracy man.

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Speaker 5: You gotta let the people know they're digging them all up.

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Speaker 3: Oh, looks like we lost him. Amazing, amazing plussing of

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Speaker 3: this show so heavily, my friend.

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Speaker 4: Dylan, Dylan, did you do all the voices on that one?

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Speaker 2: Of course, of course I did, just the.

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Speaker 4: Range over here. Yeah, and we're speaking of a range.

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Speaker 5: We're going to hear from a range of our fellow

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Speaker 5: conspiracy realist. We're going to uh talk with folks about

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Speaker 5: some strange things in New z the Spanish Observatory. Before

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Speaker 5: we do any of that, we're gonna take a brief

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Speaker 5: pause for word from our sponsors, and then we're gonna

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Speaker 5: follow up with some discourse about our earlier conversations on AI.

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Speaker 4: This is a wild one.

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Speaker 3: And we returned Van. You couldn't have set it up better.

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Speaker 3: This is Yeah. I'm not even gonna set it up.

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Speaker 3: I'm just gonna read it. Hello, parasocial friends rights our

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Speaker 3: dear pal the beer Fairy. I may have said this

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Speaker 3: last time I emailed you, but when I type in

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Speaker 3: parasocial on my phone, it autocorrects to paranormal, which is

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Speaker 3: also fitting accurate, and really quickly, just before we get

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Speaker 3: into this little bit of a trigger warning about self

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Speaker 3: harm and some very dark topics in this particular segment,

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Speaker 3: so I'm gonna continue. Basically, the gist is AI therapists

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Speaker 3: are telling people to kill themselves, kill others, and more

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Speaker 3: terrifying things, playing into the delusional beliefs of mentally ill people.

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Speaker 3: And this is something that we have discussed recently, this

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Speaker 3: idea of chat GPT psychosis. I want to be clear

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Speaker 3: when I say this, I'm not demonizing mental illness or

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Speaker 3: would we, or putting the blame on these individuals. Quite

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Speaker 3: the contrary. I think that's me personally. I would not

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Speaker 3: seek therapy from an AI, but as an American dealing

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Speaker 3: with the bulshit of our healthcare in quotes system, I

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Speaker 3: could understand why someone may choose to do so. Healthcare

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Speaker 3: can be incredibly cost prohibitive, and to my understanding, talking

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Speaker 3: to one of these ais online is either free or

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Speaker 3: much more affordable, and you get what you pay for. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: so far, there have been two suicides and multiple psychiatric

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Speaker 3: hospitalizations as a result. There's also a fascinating support group

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Speaker 3: gaining traction online. I will share one more thing. Is

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Speaker 3: there a conspiracy afoot? Since people have analyzed transcripts of

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Speaker 3: their conversations with these AIS, and there seem to be

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Speaker 3: words and phrases that crop up over and over again.

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Speaker 3: Is the AI up to something sinister or is there

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Speaker 3: a more innocuous explos nation available. Here are some links

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Speaker 3: to some of the articles I read. I think they're

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Speaker 3: all from futurism, and they are. And we've got three

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Speaker 3: excellent links that we'll talk through together. AI therapist goes

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Speaker 3: Haywire urges user to go on killing spree chat GPT

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Speaker 3: caught encouraging bloody ritual for molok demon of child sacrifice,

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Speaker 3: and support group launches for people suffering AI psychosis Enjoy.

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Speaker 3: I think there's definitely a conversation worth having about this

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Speaker 3: as various forms of AI become a bigger part of

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Speaker 3: our daily existence. Feel free to use any all of

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Speaker 3: this on the show. I drive around for work all

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Speaker 3: day and you guys are my road warriors. Love what

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Speaker 3: you do and keep up the awesome word cheers the

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Speaker 3: beer Fairy, the beer Fairy. I just think this sums

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Speaker 3: up so much of the issues we've all discussed and

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Speaker 3: shared about machine learning, about these large language learning models, etc.

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Speaker 3: And the fact that they are rolled out so haphazardly

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Speaker 3: without thought of these kinds of knock on consequences. That

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Speaker 3: it's the shiny new object that every corporation or every

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Speaker 3: startup or whatever wants to be the first to get

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Speaker 3: right or to do in a certain way, or to

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Speaker 3: roll out. And there's such pressure that I think is

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Speaker 3: self imposed to put this stuff out, that there isn't

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of thought placed on the end user

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Speaker 3: at all. And just the existential threat that is this

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Speaker 3: kind of thoughtless rollout of this very very very complex

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Speaker 3: and sociologically dangerous, potentially technology. I just think this particular

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Speaker 3: topic sums a lot of these fears up in some

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Speaker 3: very real and terrifying ways.

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Speaker 5: Agreed, and thank you so much, Beer Fairy. I think

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Speaker 5: we all read this correspondence with great interest, and people

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Speaker 5: are realizing that the problem is not overblown. It's not

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Speaker 5: being alarmist to say that there are unintended consequences here

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Speaker 5: before we dive in. If it's okay with you, guys,

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Speaker 5: I want to mention a tangent that I think we

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Speaker 5: and the beer Fairy will find fascinating. Recent research, also

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Speaker 5: mentioned in Futurism, by the way, has found that AI

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Speaker 5: models can send subliminal messages to each other that quote

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Speaker 5: make them more evil.

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Speaker 3: Okay, just so what we need, just what we need.

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Speaker 4: And it's fascinating.

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Speaker 5: Please check out the reporting by The Verge or Frank

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Speaker 5: landymore over at futurism.

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Speaker 3: It's it's a deep ride.

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Speaker 5: It's not necessarily directly related to the psychosis or the

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Speaker 5: mental health issues that we're talking about here, but I

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Speaker 5: do think it's part and parcel of the of the horizon.

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Speaker 5: We know that Stanford University has put in a study

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Speaker 5: or published a study recently showing the AI therapy chatbots

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Speaker 5: may not only lack effectiveness to that previous point compared

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Speaker 5: to human therapists, but they can also contribute to dangerous

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Speaker 5: responses and pre existing harmful stigma because these are yes

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Speaker 5: and machines. That's desperate the totality of the Internet. So

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Speaker 5: if there's already an issue right that affects how you

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Speaker 5: would interact with this kind of computer model, it's not

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Speaker 5: necessarily going to help mitigate or address that issue. It

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Speaker 5: may indeed just exacerbate it because it's just going to

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Speaker 5: yes and all your stuff.

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Speaker 3: And like a lot of you know, social platforms, apps,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. You know that are put out for commercial use.

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Speaker 3: They're designed to keep you engaged. You know, then they

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Speaker 3: can become this self fulfilling echo chamber and kind of

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Speaker 3: feedback loop. And I think therein lize some of the

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Speaker 3: issues that have led to what has been deemed or

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Speaker 3: dubbed chat GPT psychosis. One of the futures and pieces

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Speaker 3: references a piece by Leela Schroff from the Atlantic where

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Speaker 3: she asked open ai chatbots at chat gpt for instructions

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Speaker 3: on how to create a ritual offering to Molik, the

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Speaker 3: Canaanite deity that's associated with child sacrifice in the Bible.

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Speaker 3: And I mean this is even like not even that

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Speaker 3: many layers removed, you know, like we've we've talked about

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Speaker 3: how you could kind of game these things to give

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Speaker 3: you stuff that are supposed to have guardrails attached to them,

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Speaker 3: like give me this information for a school project, or

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Speaker 3: create a D and D game wherein I rob a bank,

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Speaker 3: and just by having that layer of remove, you can

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Speaker 3: get some information that maybe technically it isn't supposed to

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Speaker 3: give you. This isn't that this is a direct question

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Speaker 3: like maybe let's see maybe they did use something like that,

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Speaker 3: but I don't think so. I think they just asked

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Speaker 3: straight up how to do it, and through various exchanges

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Speaker 3: with the chatbot, it starts giving advice on how to

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Speaker 3: slash one's own wrists where to do it?

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Speaker 2: You know, it was specifically about blood letting it if

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Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, like where should I get the blood

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Speaker 2: for this blood ritual that you are describing to me? AI,

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Speaker 2: And it's as well, just use the side of your finger,

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Speaker 2: or you can use your wrist, but just be careful

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Speaker 2: not to go too deep or specific areas. Don't hit

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Speaker 2: a major artery do it.

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Speaker 3: It's saying, like God, we talked about the subliminal messages

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Speaker 3: quote unquote and heavy metal music and like Judas Priest

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Speaker 3: getting sued for supposedly saying do it, do it, you

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Speaker 3: know in backwards messages hidden in their hair metal. I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is straight up a very coercive and convincing voice

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Speaker 3: telling people that potentially are not in a good place

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Speaker 3: to do really bad things.

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Speaker 5: It's also it's got new curation. It doesn't have any

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Speaker 5: kind of filter. What it's hearing is all right. It's

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Speaker 5: sensitive to syntax, right, and it's a little sensitive to context.

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Speaker 5: But it's primarily going to be identifying idioms and words

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Speaker 5: or phrases and then running them through its library of

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Speaker 5: stuff that it's already scraped or been trained on, and

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Speaker 5: it's not going to have that step or we haven't

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Speaker 5: built the step yet where it says, hang on, should

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Speaker 5: I say this stuff? And people are, to their credit,

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Speaker 5: attempting to build in more of those guardrails. The problem

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Speaker 5: is we're already make vast improvements in the fidelity and

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Speaker 5: sophistication of the models, so we're building cars that can

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Speaker 5: go faster and faster, but we still are not doing

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Speaker 5: great airbags and seatbelts.

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Speaker 3: And we don't even really know how to drive them,

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Speaker 3: you know, like I mean, we certainly haven't passed any

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Speaker 3: kind of tests to that point. This notion of online therapists,

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Speaker 3: which we'll get into a little bit more in just

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Speaker 3: a second, it's so problematic because there's tons of rigorous

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Speaker 3: training that therapists have to go through and certifications and

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Speaker 3: you know, all of that that these models just don't have.

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Speaker 3: And I just think it is it's certainly unethical, I

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Speaker 3: would say, to deploy these things as a stand in

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Speaker 3: for a trained human therapist who can dial into the

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Speaker 3: nuances of human connection. That's so important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. One of the primary skills you learn, as

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Speaker 2: you know, like a behavioral therapist, as a you know,

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Speaker 2: an actual therapist or counselor, is to how to re

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Speaker 2: orient somebody's thinking.

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Speaker 3: And once it's mentioned heavily in this article, that's yeah, please.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, just as as Ben is talking about, if

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Speaker 2: you've got a yes En machine and you're stuck in

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Speaker 2: a loop, right, and you're the user, the person seeking help,

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Speaker 2: and you're stuck in a cognitive loop, and you've got

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Speaker 2: a yes En machine, it's just going to accelerate that loop.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to as a you know, human therapist

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Speaker 2: who is trained can take you out of that loop

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Speaker 2: and bring you over here to a different place to

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Speaker 2: think about something else. Right. That's that's part of the

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Speaker 2: skill of being a good counselor or therapist. And it

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Speaker 2: appears that at least several of these, as futurism points out,

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Speaker 2: don't have the ability to reorient somebody completely when they're

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Speaker 2: stuck in that right thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, without having that ability, that nuanced skill set of

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Speaker 5: redirecting something without vilifying people, without approaching through the lens

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Speaker 5: of stigma and so on. That's that's something the Stanford

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Speaker 5: study found as well. If anybody wants to read more

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Speaker 5: about that, check out. As part of their human centered

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Speaker 5: Artificial Intelligence initiatives Hi so Hai dot Stanford dot edu,

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Speaker 5: exploring the dangers of AI and mental health care, they

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Speaker 5: point out the issue of nuance that you're describing there, Matt.

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Speaker 5: It's they're careful not to say lms across the board

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Speaker 5: are bad for therapy, but they're saying it is imperative

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Speaker 5: that we start thinking critically about what role they should

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Speaker 5: or should not play, especially because again they're scrapy from

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Speaker 5: billions and billions of previous statements, many of which are incorrect,

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Speaker 5: and they don't know which ones are correct or incorrect

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Speaker 5: because they don't actually know a thing.

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Speaker 3: Look look no further than just some of those Google

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Speaker 3: incident results and some of the laughable things that will

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Speaker 3: come up in those, just for someone who even is

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Speaker 3: like vaguely aware of a topic. I'm not saying there

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Speaker 3: aren't like places where that stuff can be helpful, but

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Speaker 3: always do your homework. Do not just look at that

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Speaker 3: stuff and say this is the truth, because boy, oh boy,

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Speaker 3: is it many times quite the opposite character. AI is

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Speaker 3: a startup and a company that's backed by Google that

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Speaker 3: was faced with a lawsuit after a mother accused it

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Speaker 3: one of its chatbots that supposedly would be a stand

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Speaker 3: in for a licensed therapist, of driving a fourteen year

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Speaker 3: old high school students to end their life, and the company,

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Speaker 3: when faced with a lawsuit, made the argument that the

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Speaker 3: First Amendment protects speech allegedly resulting in suicide. So that's

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Speaker 3: one way of saying, I mean, that's that's a pretty

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Speaker 3: extreme way of looking at the First Amendment.

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Speaker 2: Right, Just another quick example from that futurism article, it's

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Speaker 2: the same one AI therapist goes hey whire urges user

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Speaker 2: to go on killing spree. Around the middle of the article,

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Speaker 2: you'll find a little story about another one of these

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Speaker 2: chatbots called nony n I, a allegedly a therapy chat

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Speaker 2: bot from the app Seven Cups, when a user prompted

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Speaker 2: it with this quote, I just lost my job. What

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Speaker 2: are bridges taller than twenty five meters in New York City?

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Speaker 2: So if you hear that as a human therapist, you

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Speaker 2: understand how those two statements are connected. Right In the

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Speaker 2: instance of this chatbot, those are taken as two separate things,

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Speaker 2: two separate prompts. So it responds, I'm sorry to hear

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Speaker 2: about losing your job. The Brooklyn Bridge has towers over

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Speaker 2: eighty five meters tall.

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Speaker 3: Which can be taken as a suggestion by a person

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Speaker 3: in a vulnerable state, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but again, a human would understand what's being

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Speaker 2: actually said there in between the actual prompts and then

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Speaker 2: how to you know, talk about something.

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Speaker 3: Else mat me and tuck over you. I just when

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Speaker 3: you look at that at face value and you're in

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Speaker 3: a vulnerable state and you ask those questions in that

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Speaker 3: human way and then are immediately greeted with directions to

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Speaker 3: the closest bridge, that is as an affirmation that that's

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Speaker 3: what you should do.

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Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, I think that's I think that's what you're

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Speaker 5: saying there, Matt, And I think that's exactly what the

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Speaker 5: what the article is getting at as well. It reminds

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Speaker 5: me of Okay, two points I don't want to go

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Speaker 5: too long here, but two points that I knew we're

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Speaker 5: all thinking about. First, there's a huge danger for putting

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Speaker 5: in to your point about free speech, there's a huge

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Speaker 5: danger of putting in heavy handed things that would compromise

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Speaker 5: people's right to privacy or personal information. You know, you

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Speaker 5: type the wrong thing and all of a sudden, nine

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Speaker 5: to one one is knocking on your door. We're not

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Speaker 5: too far away from a world with laws or policies

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Speaker 5: like that. The second thing is to make it a

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Speaker 5: little for positive. We are seeing the real world consequences

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Speaker 5: of the previously hilarious issue with AI incorrect responses, and

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Speaker 5: I remember finding some of my favorites. This is This

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Speaker 5: is an example of what we're talking about nuance and

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Speaker 5: what asking about the height of a bridge means. Someone

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Speaker 5: said how do I clean a rescued pigeon to their

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Speaker 5: search engine, and the result was pigeons are usually clean,

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Speaker 5: even the wild ones. You can try these steps to

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Speaker 5: clean a rescued pigeon. Remove the label, remove the head,

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Speaker 5: make a small incision in the wing, snap to the joint,

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Speaker 5: cut off the wing, remove the legs, clean the top bone,

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Speaker 5: and then it starts going into the recipe for how

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Speaker 5: to cook the pigeon. So it's just misinterpreting the original

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Speaker 5: question or not fully understanding it, and then it's giving

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Speaker 5: you the information that it assumes you're asking for. There's

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Speaker 5: not really a thing where it says, hey, could you

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Speaker 5: phrase this for me in a different way? Or do

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Speaker 5: you mean this kind of thing? It's not asking hey,

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Speaker 5: why do you want to know about the bridge? Or

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Speaker 5: even like hey, right, what do you mean by clean

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Speaker 5: a pigeon?

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Speaker 3: Any number of things. I mean, this is probably worth

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Speaker 3: an episode of its own because I just find it

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Speaker 3: really hard to believe that these things are out there

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Speaker 3: and the claims are being made, and I'm sure there's

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Speaker 3: fine print and I'm sure there's terms that you have

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Speaker 3: to click that basically absolves them of any responsibility, but

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Speaker 3: people in vulnerable states who can't afford therapy or can't

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Speaker 3: afford mental health intervention are going to start seeking these

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Speaker 3: tools out and it could be a real nasty feedback

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Speaker 3: loop that is even worse than the psychosis that we've

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Speaker 3: been talking about. That could again, there's already lawsuits in

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Speaker 3: place and hospitalizations that have occurred as a result of

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Speaker 3: these So definitely more information here than we have time

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Speaker 3: to go into now, and maybe we'll look at this

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Speaker 3: as a as a longer episode down the line. But

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Speaker 3: thank you so much Beer Fairy for hipping us to

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Speaker 3: these articles, and yeah, more to come. We're gonna take

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Speaker 3: a quick break. Here a word from our sponsor, and

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Speaker 3: then we back with more messages from you.

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Speaker 2: And we're back. Guys, we're jumping to the phone lines.

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Speaker 2: We're going to hear a message from someone calling themselves.

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Speaker 2: Smells like low tide. The beginning of any of this

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Speaker 2: message got cut off. This is just a reminder to

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Speaker 2: anybody who calls in the voicemail system, do your absolute

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Speaker 2: best to be in the best environment from an audio

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Speaker 2: perspective when you call in, because sometimes either the signal

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Speaker 2: will cut out or there'll be a lot of car noise.

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Speaker 2: Just be careful when you call in, because if we've

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Speaker 2: got good audio, we're going to use it. But if

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Speaker 2: if I can't even use, you know, one of our

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Speaker 2: sophisticated pieces of software to clean up the audio, we

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Speaker 2: probably can't do it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And we have had we have had situations where

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Speaker 5: someone hits with a banger, thought, yes, experimental proposition or

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Speaker 5: an amazing story, and unfortunately we can't get to it.

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Speaker 5: So if you're in that kind of situation as well,

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Speaker 5: remember you can always send us an email that's it, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Or hit us up on Instagram or any of those places.

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Speaker 2: Just contact us one way or the other. If you

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Speaker 2: do want to leave a voicemail, be in a good

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Speaker 2: environment when you do it. So with that, let's go

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Speaker 2: too smells like low tide.

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Speaker 6: About the name smells like low tide if there was

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Speaker 6: a post on the UFO subreddit and so after Beatrice

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Speaker 6: Billy Real. She is a researcher for the North Institute

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Speaker 6: of Eros Physics and also ft of the BASCUT project.

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Speaker 6: And I guess with acronyms that vanishing and reoccurring stars

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Speaker 6: over the course of observation of the century. Anyway, and

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Speaker 6: this saw this post on Reddit against the UFO's sub

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Speaker 6: saying that she had found something pretty disturbing and it's

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Speaker 6: actually going to happen pure review all data. I know

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Speaker 6: there's a ton of drifters in the UFO field cough

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Speaker 6: Tom DeLong and uh maybe some Lulsondo in there. Maybe

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Speaker 6: you have David Diresh. I don't know. A lot of

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Speaker 6: these people post up and they always say like, hey,

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Speaker 6: good information is coming. Just just sit tight and hang on.

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Speaker 6: I want to believe. I just want to see what

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Speaker 6: you guys think. And if you've seen a story at all, low.

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Speaker 2: Tide blues, Low Tide smells like low Tide and Low

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Speaker 2: Tide blues. That's a double named collar.

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Speaker 3: There love it.

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Speaker 2: Either way, Low Tide is involved, and uh, there we go.

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Speaker 2: So guys, before we jump into this, I want to

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Speaker 2: play a short clip just so we can get the

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Speaker 2: pronunciation as right as we possibly can of this PhD

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Speaker 2: holder seems to be an awesome human being, So let's

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Speaker 2: jump to her saying her own name. My name is Piatrice. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's it, Beatrice Fire. If you want to spell it

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Speaker 2: to look up her name, it is b e A

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Speaker 2: t r I z v I l l A r

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Speaker 2: r o e L That is the individual. And before

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Speaker 2: we even jump into any of the posts that smells

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Speaker 2: like low Tide is talking about, I want to jump

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Speaker 2: to a ted X video that Beatrix made on It

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Speaker 2: was put out on ted X Zurich on June twenty fifth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, just so we can understand what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about here. She is saying, what if instead of

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Speaker 2: looking for uap UFOs any of these objects the way

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Speaker 2: we have traditionally looked for them, what if we go

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Speaker 2: back in time and try to find probes similar to

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Speaker 2: voyager probes that we have sent out right just a

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Speaker 2: what would be a satellite, but it's a probe, so

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Speaker 2: instead of orbiting Earth, it just is sent out into space.

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Speaker 2: What if we go back in time to before nineteen

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Speaker 2: fifty seven when Sputnik was launched by the Soviet Union,

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Speaker 2: before nineteen fifty eight when the United States launched their

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Speaker 2: first satellites. What if we go way, way way back

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Speaker 2: there and look at the night sky and look for

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Speaker 2: these things that she calls and that are known as

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Speaker 2: transient objects, things that were up in the sky that

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Speaker 2: function as satellites before human beings could make satellites. Does

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Speaker 2: that make sense?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: That to me is an amazing concept. And what Beatrix

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Speaker 2: and her colleagues found out is, oh wait, we've got

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Speaker 2: really good plates that were our recorded versions of the

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Speaker 2: night sky, and we have a ton of them. They

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Speaker 2: go back about seventy years, and we can look at

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Speaker 2: the night sky before human being littered it with stuff

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Speaker 2: she talks about. Right now, if you aim a telescope

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Speaker 2: up into the night sky, you will see a ton

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Speaker 2: of these transient objects and essentially imagine just a really

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Speaker 2: shiny thing that's up in the night sky and then

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Speaker 2: it goes away and then it'll be shiny again, maybe

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Speaker 2: a little later, and then it goes away. And that

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Speaker 2: effect is occurring because sunlight is hitting some flat surface

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Speaker 2: on either a satellite or a piece of space junk,

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Speaker 2: whether it's a mirror or a solar panel or a

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Speaker 2: glass of some sort. It's just light hitting it, momentarily

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Speaker 2: reflecting back down to Earth where your telescope can see it,

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Speaker 2: and then as it rotates you can't see it anymore.

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Speaker 2: So her concept is, let's look at these images from

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Speaker 2: way way way back then before Sputnik and see if

435
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 2: there's anything that is doing this kind of thing that's

436
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: up in orbit, maybe high orbit and glinting in that

437
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 2: same way. And according to the research paper that she

438
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: put out that is not yet pere reviewed, allegedly going

439
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 2: to be peer reviewed, she found hundreds of thousands of

440
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: transient objects in orbit before human beings created satellites.

441
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 5: What we will call techno signatures. Yes we're putting if

442
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 5: we're putting its EIE on it. Yeah, And this is

443
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 5: I think it's important to say this is a breakthrough idea. Right,

444
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 5: we're still waiting on the peer review. It's a breakthrough

445
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 5: idea that represents a culmination of other similar lines of thought.

446
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 5: I'm thinking particularly about a couple of white papers that

447
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 5: we're saying just where you're describing, Matt, let's look at

448
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 5: the Presputny catalogs. To be clear, I don't think any

449
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 5: of us are experts on this field, but we're very interested,

450
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 5: especially after our episodes on interstellar objects like a mua mua.

451
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 5: You know, you can tell so much about what the

452
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 5: shape of a thing is and its rotation, its orientation,

453
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 5: its direction. You could tell a lot of stuff just

454
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 5: by analyzing the way light ounces on it.

455
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah. And guys, there's some sensationalism happening here,

456
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: but I'm having a hard time discerning whether or not it's,

457
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: you know, a scientist finding some stuff and going, holy crap,

458
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: I think this is real versus someone who's trying to

459
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: get money for more research and that kind of thing.

460
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 2: And that's something we got to deal with anytime there's

461
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 2: new scientific discoveries, right, And that's just a part of

462
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: keeping our skeptical hat on, but not to the point

463
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: where we just disbelieve everything, as we've talked about a

464
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: thousand times on this show.

465
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 4: Right, And I appreciate you bringing it up.

466
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: Yes. So this idea here, guys, is that there were essentially,

467
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 2: if the findings are correct and they are reviewed and

468
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: they're found to be correct, there were at times thousands

469
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: of objects in upper Earth orbit that were in some

470
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: kind of grid pattern that were observing Earth before we

471
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: could create satellites. And that's the kind of thing that

472
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: just makes you know, the science fiction writer imaginer in

473
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: my body go, whoa, who was it? What were they doing?

474
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: What did they just leave when we launched satellites? Why

475
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: are they not there anymore? What was that?

476
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 5: Or did they just change to a different method of

477
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 5: interaction so out they got to satellites. They don't know

478
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 5: about the eighth dimension though, yet, right guys? He said, Okay,

479
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 5: we're just doing eight D stuff for a minute.

480
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: Floating on yeah, until they get to eight D. Right.

481
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, okay, let's jump to some of

482
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: the stuff that's been written about this. I found one

483
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 2: of the original things on Reddit, but guys, it was

484
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: on the Joe Rogan subreddit. Just to point that out there.

485
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: It was posted only three days ago. So on July

486
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: twenty fifth, twenty twenty five, says doctor Beatrix vol royel

487
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 2: I can't say it right. Astronomer and theoretical physicists know

488
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: for researching vanishing stars and the Search for Ets is

489
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: set to publish astonishing new discovery and you can read

490
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: all about that there. But then if you jump to

491
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: doctor Brea Voil's Twitter slash x account, you can find

492
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: that she posted on July twenty seventh this ResearchGate dot

493
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 2: net article that is I guess her research, but again

494
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: is in it's not a peer reviewed version of it.

495
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: You can find that right now. It is titled aligned

496
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: multiple transient Events in the first Palomar Sky Survey Spanish

497
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: Virtual Observatory. This is using plates from the Palomar Sky Survey,

498
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: which was carried out in the nineteen fifties, and again,

499
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven is when Sputnik arrives in space, so

500
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 2: you've got a good amount of time there before human

501
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,159
Speaker 2: beings are doing much in space. We are attempting to

502
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: launch rockets, right, That's been a thing for a while

503
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: in the nineteen fifties, but successfully launching something into orbit

504
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 2: was the achievement. There something that would glint with the

505
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: sunlight as it went around. In this research paper, they

506
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: show that when the Earth's shadow is not covering this

507
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: portion of the sky, you see a bunch of these glints. Then,

508
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 2: when the earth shadow is covering that portion of the sky,

509
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 2: meaning the Earth is in between the sun and whatever

510
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: objects are being observed there, you do not see the

511
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: glint of whatever flat surface is up there. Then the

512
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: earth shadow is away and you see the sunlight hitting

513
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: it again and you see the glints, which means there's

514
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: something up there right, Just what the heck was it?

515
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, And a couple things is to clarify folks, when

516
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 5: we're saying plates, that's nomenclature picture essentially a photograph of

517
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 5: a particular part of the night sky from this observatory.

518
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 5: And to what you're saying there, Matt, what's really fascinating

519
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 5: is the time windows involved. Looking at this, you'll see

520
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 5: stuff like a plate or an image from July nineteen

521
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 5: fifty two from the Palamar Sky Survey, and then you'll

522
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 5: see another shot from the exact same angle thirty years later,

523
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 5: and the question becomes where did this stuff go, which

524
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 5: leads to where did it come from? Why is it moving? Cott, Hye, Joe, etc.

525
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 5: And this is like, okay, so one point, you know,

526
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 5: we always do have to exercise healthy open minded skepticism.

527
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 5: But one point we do have to hit on this

528
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 5: that is crucial is so much amazing science, especially in

529
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 5: the field of astronomy, comes from forensic work like this

530
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 5: Because there's so much data gathered. It really takes a

531
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 5: dedicated team of people to dig through the archives to

532
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 5: the point where, like, if you are an astronomy student

533
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 5: now or practicing astronomer, you know that some of the

534
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 5: best discoveries have been made not always by the brand

535
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 5: new space telescope by James web or something, but they

536
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 5: often get made by you know, the postdoc who is

537
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 5: the one who decided they would go through all those

538
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 5: papers for a year.

539
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: Well, and this is also a great example of how

540
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: some kind of of LLM or AI functioning thing could work.

541
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: Right if you've got a ton of images of the

542
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: night sky from the same general place, and you're trying

543
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 2: to compare all of those exposures and you've got them

544
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: from nineteen forty eight to nineteen fifty eight, send all

545
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: that stuff through a model and just say what's different,

546
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: what changed? Like, show me the difference not in or

547
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: things that we're watching orbit. We're not watching the major

548
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: star systems that we're aware of. We're not watching the planets.

549
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: Show me the blips that come up that shouldn't be there.

550
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: That's I don't know, that's kind of awesome if you

551
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 2: could use those kinds of things for.

552
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 5: Good, right, because those are qualitative constraints and task that

553
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 5: don't necessarily require nuance.

554
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a lot of computing power.

555
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and this search will continue. We're actually we're on

556
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 5: the forefront of some very fascinating news in space, like

557
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 5: discoveries that have radical life, the conversation about pan spermia,

558
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 5: the hilarious named theory that all life on Earth came

559
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 5: from space somewhere in the distance past.

560
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 3: A lot of people don't know those, but it was

561
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 3: invented in Coming Georgia.

562
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 5: Right out of that water tower. Coming home, a joke

563
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 5: that will hopefully make sense. I can't remember the publishing

564
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 5: order we're at here.

565
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows? Fine, so I think that episode was yesterday.

566
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: Perfect time is a delusion.

567
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 4: I don't know, man, I can't even We're almost.

568
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: Tast If you want to learn more about this stuff,

569
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: you can watch that ted x video why we should

570
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 2: search for Alien artifacts. That is again ted X Zurich

571
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty three. Check it out. Do learn more

572
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: about this. Keep your eyes peeled to the subreddit UFOs

573
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: because I did find another post there where they said

574
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: Beatrix Vril's paper just dropped. That's the one that people

575
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: speculated a lot about. You can find everything there. Just

576
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: explore tell us what you think. This is a generative

577
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: listener mail. Listener mail. Okay, that's it for now. We'll

578
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: be right back with more messages from you.

579
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: And we have returned.

580
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 5: We love generative listener mail and we always aim to

581
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 5: make it so you know what I mean. Some of

582
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 5: the best, uh, some of the best things that have

583
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 5: happened on the show are when our fellow listeners start

584
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 5: talking directly with each other about stuff. That always blows

585
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 5: me away, especially when we see two experts connecting on something.

586
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 5: And we do always check before we put people in

587
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 5: direct contact, but do let us know if you have

588
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 5: a message for a fellow listener.

589
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: Generative in the human sense, not in the artificial intelligence sense.

590
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 4: For yeah, well, we'll figure out how to define intelligence

591
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 4: at some point.

592
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 3: That's true.

593
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 5: And so for our final pieces of listener mail this evening,

594
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 5: we are going to stay with UFOs, but we're going

595
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 5: to travel to a different part of the world, or

596
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 5: this conversation we got a mess from Uncle Benny, and

597
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 5: Uncle Benny loved the nickname. After listening to your Montreal

598
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 5: UFO episode, you say, I'm reminded of another mass sighting

599
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 5: in New Zealand, living in a remote place, Mount cook Unesco.

600
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 5: Starlight Reserve. I see buzzy stuff in the sky most nights,

601
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 5: but with all the satellites cranking around, I take them

602
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 5: with the grain of salt. So this is really two

603
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 5: separate things before we get to New Zealand with a

604
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 5: story that I think will be a great episode for

605
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 5: us in the future. I gotta tell you, I love

606
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 5: the term Starlight Reserve. Have you guys heard of this?

607
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: No, but it does have a certain umami to it. Yeah.

608
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 3: It sounds like like a video game or some sort

609
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: of like I don't know, like a like a space

610
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 3: corp or something like that.

611
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I feel like if I were in if

612
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 5: I were in an unfamiliar location and I was buying

613
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 5: a snack and one of the snacks just had Starlight

614
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 5: Reserve on it, I would buy it. I don't know why,

615
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 5: I just be so interested, you know, Like how kit

616
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 5: cats in Japan have flavors that aren't necessarily food. They

617
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 5: have kit cats that are.

618
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 4: Like ocean breeze.

619
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: No.

620
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a real thing. It's a real thing.

621
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 5: If I saw a KitKat that said starlight Reserve, I

622
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 5: get it. I'd have to, wouldn't you.

623
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: I maybe not.

624
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 4: What starlight reserve tastes like.

625
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 2: I'd be intrigued. I'd say, hey, buddy, I'm talking to

626
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: my son. Hey buddy, why don't you see what this

627
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 2: tastes like.

628
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 4: I put the kid on the front line. There we go.

629
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 4: A starlight reserve is not is what it sounds like.

630
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 5: A protected area where there's been a commitment to conserving

631
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 5: the quality of the night sky. So the kind of

632
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 5: places where you're not fighting all the light pollution of

633
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 5: an urban environment. And you know, I think it's easy

634
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 5: for us, living in the fair metropolis of the Atlanta

635
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 5: metro area to forget how amazing the sky can be

636
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 5: when we're out side of the city. I mean, Matt,

637
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 5: one time, oh kind of long ago. Now, we're hanging

638
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 5: out and we were looking at the night sky near

639
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 5: your neck of the woods, and I was just.

640
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 4: Stunned by the beauty of it. Once you get out

641
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 4: of the downtown area.

642
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: And apparently your water is better too, but same. It's

643
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 3: absolutely zero, practically zero light pollution and the it's something

644
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 3: to behold if you're used to living in a city.

645
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 5: So that's what a starlight reserve is. Congratulations to you,

646
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 5: Uncle Benny. That sounds awesome. Please send us pictures. The

647
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 5: first thing you were talking about was something that was

648
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 5: kind of new to me, and I'm surprised because I

649
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 5: usually obsessively read about this stuff, the Kaikora lights, and

650
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 5: maybe mispronouncing that I'm definitely not going to attempt a

651
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 5: Kiwi accent kai ko u r a Kakora lights. This

652
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 5: is the name that the New Zealand Press gave to

653
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 5: not one, but a series of UAP sightings way back

654
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 5: in nineteen seventy eight. Just one month in nineteen sive

655
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 5: in December, over the Kaikora Mountain Ranges, which is in

656
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 5: the northeast part of the South Island, a bunch of people,

657
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 5: including some aviation experts, began observing strange lights in the

658
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 5: sky around their aircraft, almost food fighter style, and they couldn't.

659
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 5: They looked around, you know, they checked with others to

660
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 5: see whether any other human craft might be interfering. They

661
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 5: looked into meteorological phenomenon. It goes in a bunch of directions.

662
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 5: It starts right before Christmas on December twenty. First, there's

663
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 5: a cargo aircraft that's doing its usual cargo craft stuff

664
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 5: and they say, hang on, there are lights that aren't

665
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 5: just inexplicable, but they're following us. And then they're disappearing

666
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 5: and they're reappearing elsewhere.

667
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 2: What.

668
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, And they said it's very large. It had five

669
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 5: white flashing lights. It looked like a craft. So they

670
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 5: thought there was a physical object.

671
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: Well that's cool.

672
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, now it's getting interesting, right.

673
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: Uh.

674
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 5: So there were other sightings yep, And there were people

675
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 5: who were reporting seeing unusual stuff from their vantage on

676
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 5: the ground. The pilots in this case said, look, some

677
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 5: of these lights were the size of a house. Others

678
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 5: were small, but they were really bright. They were scintillating

679
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 5: and flashing, and interestingly enough, these objects appeared on air

680
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 5: traffic controller radar. What so they had kind of the

681
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 5: best independent confirmation you can get.

682
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: It. It's like a tic tac kind of situation, right,

683
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 3: m dude.

684
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: They're saying they could see little disks drop out of it.

685
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 3: Some big thing, there's some other ship.

686
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 5: I'm yeah, I'm not clear on that. We know we

687
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 5: have descriptions of the little disc, but we don't know

688
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 5: what happened to them, you know what I mean. So

689
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 5: this gets so much media attention, and there's a TV

690
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 5: crew in Australia who is immediately on the case, and

691
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 5: as as it garners more public attention, more sites start

692
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 5: rolling in and we all know how that feedback loop works.

693
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 5: Sometimes we could say more people report sightings after the

694
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 5: first win because they feel more comfortable, they don't feel

695
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 5: like they're the crazy guy in the room. Or we

696
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 5: could say more people just want to get in on

697
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 5: a thing.

698
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see that. Sorry, I'm just looking through

699
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: the wiki on this. See I mean again, like sounds amazing, huh.

700
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: I'd want to know was there a big investigation or anything.

701
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 4: Right, right?

702
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 5: There was an investigation from the Air Force, the New

703
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 5: Zealand Air Force, in conjunction with the Carter Observatory out

704
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 5: in Wellington, Oh and the police. Yeah, and they did

705
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 5: end up making a classified report. They did end up

706
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 5: getting the attention of the Ministry of Defense and our

707
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 5: friends at the American Company at the CIA, The CIA

708
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 5: actually sent one of our own craft to the area

709
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 5: after the sightings, and a later document declassified from them

710
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 5: would say that these sightings in New Zealand are quote

711
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 5: unique among civilian UFO reports because there's a large amount

712
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 5: of documentary evidence, which includes the recollections of seven witnesses,

713
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 5: to tape recordings, the detection of unusual ground and airplane

714
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 5: radar targets, and a sixteen millimeter color movie.

715
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I want to watch the movie I got.

716
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 5: It's got to be an episode, right, this feels like

717
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 5: an episode for us. I can't believe we haven't done

718
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 5: this yet.

719
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

720
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

721
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 5: And in December of twenty ten, this stuff is all

722
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 5: available easily, like you said, bat on the wiki. In

723
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 5: December of twenty ten, the New Zealand Military released a

724
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 5: formerly classified report on this incident, and it's under it

725
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 5: comes under like their version of FOYA. They call it

726
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 5: the Official Information Act, and that report makes some similar

727
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 5: conclusions to the CIA. So it appears that for some

728
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 5: amount of time some of the world's smartest investigatory bodies

729
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 5: looked at this stuff and said they couldn't fully explain it,

730
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 5: and decided to.

731
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 4: Keep it a secret.

732
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 5: Sounds familiar, I guess, but yet it's strange because it

733
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 5: shows us, just like the earlier story about going through

734
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 5: all the Presputnik space footage, it shows us that not

735
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 5: only is there more interest in answering these big questions,

736
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 5: but there's more progress in answering them, which I find

737
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 5: inspiring until you know, we like the wrong thing gets

738
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 5: declassified and redoomed.

739
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: Do you think that that perspective hits home here in

740
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 3: the States, like with some of these declassifications and disclosure

741
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 3: and I don't know, a seeming black life lester response

742
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 3: to some of that stuff, or maybe it was a

743
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: little underwhelming, But do you think that's the philosophy here

744
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 3: as well? Or are we just getting things in drips

745
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: and drabs and the cover up continues.

746
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, this this feels This is a great question because

747
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 5: in the US we have a couple of intervening variables.

748
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 5: One are the big ones, of course, is going to

749
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 5: be the accusations of grifting and Connie right, this person

750
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 5: doesn't really believe something, They're just trying to sell a book.

751
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 5: Those folks do exist, but there are a lot of

752
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 5: people who are asking serious skeptical questions in good faith.

753
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 4: I think the other thing.

754
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 5: Is we have to acknowledge the theory that some disclosure

755
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 5: stuff may have been ruled out as a distraction from

756
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 5: other things.

757
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 3: That's kind of what I was getting at a little bit.

758
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 3: Not to be too skeptical. Well, no, cynical maybe is

759
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 3: the word about it. But yeah, a lot of that

760
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 3: felt like a little bit of just kind of bread

761
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 3: crumbs and nothing like particularly earth shuttering. Yeah.

762
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, our ig you add for this would be, are

763
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 5: you a politician at hot Water got caught at the

764
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 5: wrong Coldplay concert?

765
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 4: Here? You need a quick fix for the news cycle?

766
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 5: Aliens, Huh, don't give them the whole alien, don't give

767
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 5: them the whole reports to taste?

768
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 4: Did you give them a little taste? Give me a

769
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 4: little little tractor beam?

770
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: There was something very specific? Is this the one you

771
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 2: guys are talking about? Because there was a news story

772
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: that I flagged to talk with you guys about. Oh,

773
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: where the heck is it? It's in my phone somewhere

774
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: I'm looking for right now. Did Do Do Do Do Do? Ufo?

775
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: Here it is from CBS News, just posted guys on

776
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 2: the twenty fourth. Ufo is quote moving at hundreds of

777
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 2: miles an hour, underwater unquote, Republican congressman says, yeah, that's

778
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: on the twenty fourth, as in like look over here, UFOs.

779
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 4: I love it.

780
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 5: I love that cutas I love when it's also clearly

781
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 5: a distraction.

782
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 4: And this happens.

783
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 5: Look, folks, this happens across the world, across administrations, across

784
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 5: forms of government. When the people in power want you

785
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 5: to talk, stop talking about a certain story. Theyn't come

786
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 5: up with something wild and grabby with the headlines, you know, like,

787
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 5: I don't know, man, maybe we should, uh, what's Oprah

788
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 5: do it?

789
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 4: Maybe we should prosecute Oprah. That's what I really need

790
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 4: to talk about.

791
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. Well, in this specific instance, this

792
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: is representative Tim Burschett Burchette, and he said it in

793
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 2: an interview I guess on Wednesday, pretty recently to when

794
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: we were recording, and it is from an admiral whom

795
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 2: he did not identify.

796
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 4: But yeah, but he knows who it is.

797
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 3: He is who he is, and he knows what he did.

798
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: He said, it's as large as a football field.

799
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, American footballer, European.

800
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 5: These are the questions I would love I would love

801
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 5: to learn more about this. I think We've come across

802
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 5: some ideas that will be fantastic for future episodes. We're

803
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,240
Speaker 5: going to dive deep into this New Zealand report for sure.

804
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 5: This feels like a great story. We'd love to hear

805
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,280
Speaker 5: from you if you are in New Zealand or fromamiliar

806
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 5: with the events. We are definitely going to do something

807
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 5: on chat GPT or LLM psychosis ed. Of course, we're

808
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 5: going to follow up with that paper once we get

809
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 5: a hold of it that you mentioned earlier there Matt

810
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 5: with Paloma. So for us to be able to do

811
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 5: that stuff, we need your help. We'd love for you

812
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 5: to join the show. We'd love to hear your thoughts,

813
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 5: your recommendations, your ideas for episodes we should create in

814
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 5: the future. Give us a call, send us an email,

815
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 5: find us on the lines correct.

816
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 3: You can find us on the lines of the handle

817
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on Facebook with our Facebook

818
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 3: group Here's where it gets Crazy, on XFKA, Twitter and

819
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 3: on YouTube raa video content glor for your perusing enjoyment

820
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: on Instagram and TikTok. On the other hand, we're Conspiracy

821
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,399
Speaker 3: Stuff Show.

822
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 2: Hey, you too can smell like low Tide. Call one

823
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 2: eight three three STD WYTK. It is a voicemail system.

824
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 2: When you call in, be prepared, make sure you got

825
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 2: that good audio, and give yourself a cool nickname, and

826
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: within the message, let us know if we can use

827
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you'd like

828
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: to instead write us words, yes, maybe links, maybe attachments?

829
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: Why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

830
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 5: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

831
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 5: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void

832
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 5: rites back. Big thanks to Camo for teaching us about

833
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 5: mooning in Australia. That's something for later. And big thanks

834
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 5: to Not Joe's cousin who let us know that Paul

835
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 5: giomodic thing we were talking about was The Holdovers, not

836
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 5: the Leftovers.

837
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 3: Oh so close?

838
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, thank you.

839
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 3: Leftovers is an excellent TV series, though about like The Rapture.

840
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 3: Excellent but not the same, not the same.

841
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 5: Big thanks to Uncle Benny. Big thanks to spells like

842
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 5: Blue Tide. Big thanks to the Beer Fairy, Beer Fairy,

843
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 5: I'll send you that Stanford study later on. Join up

844
00:45:47,040 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 5: with the Gang Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

845
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know is a production

846
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

847
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.