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Speaker 1: Do Do Do? Or wait, what's the opposite? How about

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Speaker 1: do do Do? Do? Sad Trombone Vancouver and Portland, Oregon. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we can't come see right now. We're sorry to say.

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Speaker 1: It's not us. It's the coronavirus told us not to come.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Uh. Local authorities are shutting down shows of

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Speaker 1: the size we are not able to come. We are postponing.

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Speaker 1: We will have more information coming as far as rescheduling. UM.

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Speaker 1: I believe how it works is your tickets are good

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Speaker 1: if you want to come to that other show, but

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Speaker 1: we don't know all the details yet. To just bear

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Speaker 1: with us while we try and figure this out. Right,

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Speaker 1: and in the meantime, you can get in touch with

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Speaker 1: the Arlene Schnitzer Concert Hall and the Chance Center Box

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Speaker 1: offices to figure out what's what. Yeah, they'll probably have

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Speaker 1: good at phone. But we really apologize for any inconvenience

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Speaker 1: and we will eventually see you, guys, we promise. In

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Speaker 1: the meantime, stay well, wash those hands and don't panic.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there,

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Speaker 1: and there's Jerry and this is stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: the podcast about universal basic income on the podcast that's right,

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Speaker 1: you be I baby, Yeah, it's it's like the most

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Speaker 1: blamed set of words I've ever seen strung together in

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Speaker 1: my life. But they have a big, big punch if

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Speaker 1: you really dig into them. Yeah, I found myself kind

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Speaker 1: of it was. It was cool reading all this stuff

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Speaker 1: and researching it because I I don't think I had

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Speaker 1: much of an opinion on it before, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to try to not get too opinionated this time. But

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Speaker 1: now you're like, well, all poor people can just die

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Speaker 1: off for all I care. A lot of this, A

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Speaker 1: lot of this made sense to me. Yeah, especially when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about replacing a bloated, kind of broken system. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: because my first thought was like, universal basic income in

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Speaker 1: addition to um, you know, welfare and food stamps and

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Speaker 1: all the other social safety nets, but like replacing it

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Speaker 1: with something that's a little more straightforward kind of spoke

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Speaker 1: to me a little bit. Yeah, And I think that

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Speaker 1: speaks to a lot of people too. And we'll kind

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Speaker 1: of explain a little more obviously what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: But one thing that stuck out to me about that

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Speaker 1: Chuck was what about people who are physically incapable of working,

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Speaker 1: of making a living, and that this would be their

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Speaker 1: only means of support, or who have aged out of

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Speaker 1: working and and don't have a way to support themselves anymore.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't you still need some sort of social safety net

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Speaker 1: in addition to that for those people. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if this would replace disability or would it. I guess

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Speaker 1: it depends on who whose plan. You know. Some people

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Speaker 1: there's a conservative economists who will talk about later on

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Speaker 1: named Charles Murray who's like, get rid of everything, this

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Speaker 1: is it okay? And he goes on to say, like,

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Speaker 1: while he wrote like a whole book about it, but

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Speaker 1: I read kind of his synopsis of the book, but

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Speaker 1: he he kind of explains, like, here's how this could

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Speaker 1: actually work. Um, he doesn't just say that, but there

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Speaker 1: is a sense of there's definitely a real disdain for

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Speaker 1: the bloated bureaucracy that that is the entitlement or welfare

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Speaker 1: system in the United States, for sure, And I get

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Speaker 1: the sense that it's on both sides. So that is

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Speaker 1: kind of an appealing part of this, that this could

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Speaker 1: conceivably replace it under the right circumstances. Yeah, and this

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Speaker 1: also made me think a little bit about the push

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Speaker 1: for a flat tax that happens every so often, where

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Speaker 1: it's like, we've got such a convoluted tax system, can

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Speaker 1: we just settle on a very fair percentage that everyone

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Speaker 1: pays across the board. The problem with that one, it's

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Speaker 1: a great idea on his face, sure, a lot of problems. Problem.

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Speaker 1: The basic problem that I have with it is that

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Speaker 1: automatically makes it aggressive. If you're a millionaire and you

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Speaker 1: pay ten percent, that ten percent is going to mean

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Speaker 1: a lot less to you than if you're a person

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Speaker 1: living near the poverty line and that ten percent means

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Speaker 1: rent or food or something like that, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. So therefore it's a regressive tax. And I've

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Speaker 1: never heard a good way to kind of um set

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Speaker 1: up that flat text, uh, to make it non regressive,

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Speaker 1: so that that that doesn't just automatically introduce this other

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Speaker 1: new convoluted tax code to you know what I mean. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's if you look back at the history of

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Speaker 1: flat tax proposals, it's usually some super rich, old white

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Speaker 1: guy that proposes it. So that makes you kind of

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Speaker 1: want to go like, well, wait a minute, right, can

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Speaker 1: you loophole your way out of that too? Yeah? Well no,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's not a loophole, it's more just it's

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Speaker 1: just super aggressive. Um, but that's a different episode. We've

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Speaker 1: never done a flat tax up, so right, I think

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Speaker 1: we should do it. Yeah, we totally should. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: kind of surprised we haven't. But yeah, so that's a

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Speaker 1: totally different episode. But um, what we're talking about instead

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Speaker 1: is called universal basic income. The universal is really important

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Speaker 1: because there's different proposals. But in a universal basic income scheme,

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Speaker 1: the government takes X number of dollars, say a thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars a month, and mails that check out to every adult,

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Speaker 1: say eighteen and over in the United States, everybody, no

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Speaker 1: questions asked, no strings attached. You don't have to be poor.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're rich. It doesn't matter what

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Speaker 1: you do with that money. You can go spend it

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Speaker 1: all on crack if you want to. It's your money. Like,

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Speaker 1: the cops may bust you for buying crack or smoking

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Speaker 1: crack or whatever, but you can use it for crack

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Speaker 1: or ideally you would use it. Um in in myriad

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Speaker 1: other beneficial ways. But I guess I'm just trying to

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Speaker 1: point out there's no there's no guidance on how you're

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Speaker 1: to use that money. That's your money, and because it's

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Speaker 1: coming from the federal government and it's guaranteed basic income,

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Speaker 1: you can rely on that every month, and so you

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Speaker 1: can start to build your life around knowing that at

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Speaker 1: the very least you're gonna have a thousand dollars tax free.

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Speaker 1: From what I understand from the government, that would be

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Speaker 1: so United States to give you a thousand dollars a

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Speaker 1: month and then take back like three right exactly. So

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Speaker 1: this was if you were a fan of Andrew Yang

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Speaker 1: during his UM I don't want to say brief presidential bid,

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Speaker 1: not long enough. I'll tell you that you like Yang,

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Speaker 1: I like Yang. Hu was crazy for Yang, but I

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Speaker 1: just thought his idea, his ideas were very level headed,

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Speaker 1: were very a political. I just thought he was I

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Speaker 1: thought he was great. Yeah, he spoke to me too, um.

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Speaker 1: But he called it the freedom dividend, And that's what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. A thousand bucks a month, no questions ask.

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Speaker 1: If you're Bill Gates, you get a thousand dollars if

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Speaker 1: you don't have two pennies to rub together. You get

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Speaker 1: a thousand dollars and we'll talk. This is one of

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Speaker 1: the few episodes I think we're the history. Uh. Addressing

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Speaker 1: that later kind of works, UM, But there is some

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Speaker 1: history beyond him, and he's not the only person there.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the Bill Gates is and the Zuckerberg's

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Speaker 1: and the Musk's of the world. It's huge and Silicon

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Speaker 1: Valley right now. It is in Silicon Valley, as we

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Speaker 1: will learn, is one of the areas that they would

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Speaker 1: that's in the cross here's for providing uh this money

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Speaker 1: to a large degree through taxes because uh, one of

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Speaker 1: the fears is and it's a legit fear. And I

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Speaker 1: know in your Existential Risks UH podcast series, you talk

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Speaker 1: about automation and robots, robots and things. But the fact

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Speaker 1: is we are automating more and more. Uh. Some say

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Speaker 1: that uh in the next twelve and twelve years that

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Speaker 1: about thirty of all working Americans will lose their jobs

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Speaker 1: to robots. Do you realize what an increase in unemployment

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Speaker 1: that is, Huget. I think right now we're at somewhere

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Speaker 1: around three percent unemployment, which is really low. It's close,

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Speaker 1: very close to full employment, if not like statistically full

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Speaker 1: employment all of a sudden and how many years did

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Speaker 1: you say? It? Said? Twelve? I mean that's an estimation.

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Speaker 1: So that's probably like a sky is falling kind of scenario.

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Speaker 1: But there are a lot of smart people out there

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Speaker 1: who say, Okay, maybe twelve years is a little soon,

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Speaker 1: maybe that percentage is a little high. Definitely some people

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Speaker 1: will be put out of work in that time. But

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Speaker 1: let's say let's expand that window to thirty years or

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Speaker 1: fifty years, then we might start getting into some really

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Speaker 1: high percentages of people who are being put out of

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Speaker 1: work and not like you know, you could go over

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Speaker 1: to company B. Your job's just gone, because we develop

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Speaker 1: machines that are way better and way more efficient and

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Speaker 1: way cheaper at doing that, uh than you are. And

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Speaker 1: so what do you do with those people? And it's

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Speaker 1: not just a question for governments, um of what do

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Speaker 1: you do with that physical person who's now poverty stricken

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Speaker 1: because they their job doesn't exist any longer for for people,

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Speaker 1: But all of these social safety nets and a lot

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Speaker 1: of other stuff that um that we have in this

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Speaker 1: country that those people would need to participate in, those

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Speaker 1: are funded by payroll taxes and unemployment tax and stuff

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Speaker 1: that is a tax on labor and employment. And so

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Speaker 1: if you have a person whose job doesn't exist anymore,

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Speaker 1: you can't tax that labor, you can't tax that employment.

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Speaker 1: So now you have the problem of somebody who says,

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Speaker 1: I need this assistance, and then they're the way of

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Speaker 1: providing that assistance has just been removed because we automated

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Speaker 1: that job away, right, And there are some people like

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Speaker 1: Bill Gates that are saying, hey, companies that are automating

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, you're avoiding all these payroll taxes. Now, um,

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Speaker 1: you should pay it on the robot as well, which

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Speaker 1: what I didn't see necessarily was whether or not that's

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Speaker 1: and I assume it is. One of the big benefits

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Speaker 1: of automation is that you don't have to pay those

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Speaker 1: payroll taxes any longer. If you're in a business, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that'd be a huge Yeah, if you can get rid

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Speaker 1: of people. People are generally expensive, and if you're just

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Speaker 1: strictly a utilitarian business owner, it was it's very much

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Speaker 1: in your in your favor of automating whatever jobs you can. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're not paying payroll tax, you're not having to pay

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Speaker 1: for that person the portion of their health care. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry about union striking people getting sick. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: as we become more automated, there are people speaking up

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Speaker 1: and saying sure, there's also a lot of job creation

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Speaker 1: that happens with automating things. But the person that is

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Speaker 1: taking care of your sanitation every week, if that was

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Speaker 1: replaced by a robot off driving truck and clamper that

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Speaker 1: dumps the garbage in there, clamper trademark wind COO, that

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Speaker 1: person is not necessarily going to be the person that

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Speaker 1: can be like, hey, I'll just get a job building

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Speaker 1: these robots too, right, right, right, yeah, Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: ultimately kind of a it's a supplementary part to this

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Speaker 1: whole discussion of you know, we're still going to need

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Speaker 1: people to do things like build robots, So how much

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Speaker 1: of this should really be how much of this attention

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Speaker 1: and effort should be directed towards training people for this

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Speaker 1: new economy. Yeah, And it's the same idea when you

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Speaker 1: talk about alternative energy. Teach the coal miner to build

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Speaker 1: wind turbines and an ideal world. All that happens very seamlessly,

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Speaker 1: and they're just like, well, let's just take all these

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Speaker 1: people that are out those jobs and give them the

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Speaker 1: new jobs. It just doesn't work that way all the time,

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Speaker 1: right right, and and yeah, and I mean idealize that. No,

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Speaker 1: you can't and you shouldn't like this is these need

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Speaker 1: to be like Frank Stark, sober discussions that we have

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Speaker 1: about this because we're a little bit we're talking about

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Speaker 1: it doesn't hurt. Maybe some nice maybe some nice homemade

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Speaker 1: thumb print cookies with the hers she's kissing there, um,

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Speaker 1: but the but yeah, you do. We do need to

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Speaker 1: talk about the stuff because we're talking about human beings

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Speaker 1: and who who are gainfully employed now who maybe again

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Speaker 1: poverty stricken because their job doesn't exist in the next

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Speaker 1: decade or so. And yes, we need to be thinking

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Speaker 1: about this now. And then other people chuck say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's the real possibilities robot this robot Texas automated economy

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Speaker 1: that we're clearly moving toward. We don't know when it's

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Speaker 1: going to really kick in. Is it's gonna be twelve years,

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Speaker 1: Is it gonna be thirty, is it gonna be fifty.

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Speaker 1: We don't know, But basically everybody agrees that that is

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Speaker 1: the direction that we're heading you could have to be

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Speaker 1: basically cuckoo to argue against that. Right, It's just when

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Speaker 1: are the effects really going to be felt? Other people say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a big problem, and I'm glad we're thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: But we have had poor people in the United States

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Speaker 1: and a huge inequality gap basically since World War Two.

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Speaker 1: It's a national blemish of shame on our character, our

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Speaker 1: country's character that there are people that are just gobsmackingly

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Speaker 1: rich and other people who are gobsmackingly poor, and they

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Speaker 1: deserve to not live in poverty because because they are

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Speaker 1: citizens of the world's wealthiest economy. Just the fact that

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Speaker 1: they are Americans says that they shouldn't have a life

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Speaker 1: of poverty because we can provide for them at least

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Speaker 1: enough so that they don't have to be poverty stricken.

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Speaker 1: And that's another argument for universal basic income as well,

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Speaker 1: one that was championed by Martin Luther King. Look, we

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Speaker 1: can take care of people, and we should. We have

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Speaker 1: a moral obligation to. And I've just realized I suddenly

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Speaker 1: started just talking like Bernie Sanders. Did you catch that

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Speaker 1: that like stammering kind of delivery? That was weird? My

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Speaker 1: hair turned white. Just now, didn't it? And shaggy Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hope it grows back to normal. So, uh, maybe

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Speaker 1: we should take a break here in a minute. Wait,

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Speaker 1: what's what my hair? Do you think it's going to

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Speaker 1: go back to normal? Let's take a break now, Okay,

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Speaker 1: Bernie and uh because that was a good setup, and

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Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit about what exactly is in

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Speaker 1: some of the pros and cons right after this large

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Speaker 1: sk Alright, so we talked about the Freedom Dividend from

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Speaker 1: Andrew Yang and his his team and where you get

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Speaker 1: a thousand dollars a month, whether you're working or not,

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Speaker 1: whether your ridge or poor, and it the idea is

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Speaker 1: is that it would replace the safety net programs that

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Speaker 1: all have strings attached. Right, So, if you are a

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Speaker 1: part of the SNAP program and you get food stamps,

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Speaker 1: you need to prove that you are below a certain

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Speaker 1: income level. Uh. If you're getting unemployment, you have to

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Speaker 1: show you're looking for work. If you're getting Social Security,

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Speaker 1: then you have paid into that for a number of years.

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Speaker 1: If you have disability, then that you have a doctor

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Speaker 1: vouching for you. This is no questions asked, which is

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Speaker 1: a you know, sounds radical to some people, but other

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Speaker 1: people say, just makes perfect sense. Yeah, And and Yank's

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Speaker 1: not the only one to um to to address this,

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Speaker 1: Like you said, you know, it's kind of a hot

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Speaker 1: topic in Silicon valiant has been for the last five, six,

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Speaker 1: seven years, UM to the point now where it's probably

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Speaker 1: like old news and everybody's moved on to something else,

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Speaker 1: like um, debtors prisons are the new thing in Silicon Valley. UM.

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Speaker 1: But one of the co founders of Facebook named Chris Hughes,

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Speaker 1: he wrote a book. UM. I can't remember what it's called.

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Speaker 1: It's like I read that it was half memoir half

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Speaker 1: basically policy. Um uh lay out what I would like

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Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, and it was basically arguing in favor

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Speaker 1: of a universal basic income. And this guy put his

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Speaker 1: money where his mouth is. He actually funded a pilot

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Speaker 1: program in uh Stockton. I think the UM he said, here,

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Speaker 1: take four families, right, five dollars each a month. Know,

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Speaker 1: his was five dollars a month. But he hit on

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Speaker 1: something that I saw other people have hit on. Two

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Speaker 1: that in addition to universal basic basic income, that's pretty good,

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Speaker 1: but you have to go a little further, and UM,

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Speaker 1: people would need to have at least catastrophic health insurance

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Speaker 1: to where if they needed surgery or long term care

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Speaker 1: or something like that, they had insurance that covered it.

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Speaker 1: That those two things would probably help people get by UM.

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Speaker 1: And then there's plenty of other people running experiments on

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Speaker 1: the stuff that we'll talk about later, But the general

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Speaker 1: idea is that that yes, you just no questions asked,

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Speaker 1: no strings attached you, you get some amount per month

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Speaker 1: just for being an adult. Some other plans say maybe

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Speaker 1: per household would be a good way to cut it down,

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Speaker 1: maybe if you make less than a certain amount of money. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but one of the things that about universal basic income

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Speaker 1: typically is that there's no cut off for wealth. Everybody

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Speaker 1: gets it just for being an American, and that it

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Speaker 1: isn't per household, it's per individual, which UM really is

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Speaker 1: beneficial for a whole segment of society, which are unpaid caregivers,

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Speaker 1: everybody from stay at home moms to people who are

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Speaker 1: caring for their UM, their their parents with Alzheimer's. Those

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Speaker 1: people get a thousand dollars themselves. So now, all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, a household with two adults in it UM

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Speaker 1: who pool their resources, has you know, twenty four thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars a year rather than just twelve. So that's one

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Speaker 1: of the pros um Another is, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: are poverty stricken, if you live, if you're one of

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Speaker 1: the one and eight Americans, which is striking that lives

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Speaker 1: below the poverty line, um, you are probably not doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of things to meet your health needs. You're

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Speaker 1: probably not getting up every day and saying I need

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Speaker 1: to I need to work out and eat really healthy.

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Speaker 1: We've talked about the problem, the food problem in this

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Speaker 1: country and how the poorest people eat the biggest garbage

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Speaker 1: diets because it's cheap. Um, you're not thinking, you're not

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Speaker 1: eating well, you're not exercising, you're not uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: paying as much attention to your kids doing homework. Sure,

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Speaker 1: if you want to idealize everything, you should be doing

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Speaker 1: all those things. But if you're struggling day to day

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Speaker 1: just to to live and survive, a lot of these

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Speaker 1: things go by the wayside. So the idea is that

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Speaker 1: a universal basic income would provide you with enough of

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Speaker 1: a buffer to where you can tackle some of these

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Speaker 1: other things. Or you can maybe go back to school

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Speaker 1: and get that degree or start your own business, right,

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Speaker 1: you know. And another another thing for the very like

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Speaker 1: the poverty stricken working class. Um, they would be given

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Speaker 1: this buffer or this this check that everybody gets for

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Speaker 1: them would be like a floor that would allow them

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Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I don't have to take

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Speaker 1: this job because I'm not desperate any longer to put

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Speaker 1: food on the table, so I can hold out for

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Speaker 1: a better job that affords me more dignity or that

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Speaker 1: isn't actually dangerous to do because the working conditions are

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Speaker 1: so poor. So there's there's a whole um uh, employer

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Speaker 1: exploitation that would largely dissolve when because the working class,

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Speaker 1: that the really right around the poverty level working class

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Speaker 1: would have this kind of buffer that they could use

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Speaker 1: to negotiate better working conditions and higher higher wages. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we should point out everything we're saying here. We

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Speaker 1: should have this term in front of it is this

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Speaker 1: is the idea that these things will happen, right, This

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Speaker 1: is all the in theory, right exactly. Um. The one

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Speaker 1: thing I didn't see listed as a pro which I

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Speaker 1: think is an obvious one, is if you make a

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Speaker 1: certain amount of money, then I imagine a lot of

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Speaker 1: people would treat this twelve grand year as something that

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Speaker 1: they could just spend, thus propping up the economy, or donate, right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would hope that if you were very wealthy, that

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Speaker 1: it would become kind of trendy to just donate this part. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen people talking about that in anything that

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Speaker 1: I've read, and that just seems like a real obvious

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Speaker 1: one to me. That, uh, you know, because a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that are doing pretty well and they might

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Speaker 1: get a tax return and that's like TV time or whatever,

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Speaker 1: let me go buy that flat screen. Well, actually, if

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Speaker 1: if we can throw out one of the cons um

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Speaker 1: actually dovetails with what you're talking about that there's a

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Speaker 1: concern among economists that if all of a sudden, every

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Speaker 1: adult over eighteen in America was getting a thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a month, they would be like, heck, yeah, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get a TV this month. Next month, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go get some clothes, or I'm gonna save up a

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Speaker 1: few months and get a car sooner than I normally

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Speaker 1: would have. Yes, because if all of a sudden, a

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Speaker 1: couple of hundred million Americans are all doing this, spending

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Speaker 1: more money, way more than we have been before where

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Speaker 1: this is going, that we would outstrips. Demand would outstrip supply,

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Speaker 1: and so the prices of goods would go up inflation,

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Speaker 1: and so it would cancel out any benefit there was

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Speaker 1: from the universal basic income because we would have all

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Speaker 1: caused inflation to make prices rise in the cost of

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Speaker 1: goods increase. D Oh, totally, it's very valid. But what's

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Speaker 1: great about it is people are thinking about it, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. The other thing I like about

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Speaker 1: this too is, um, it's not just liberals who are

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Speaker 1: crazy about this, libertarians too, and um, some conservatives as

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Speaker 1: well are totally cool with it too. For a number

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Speaker 1: of reasons. Um, Libertarians like the idea that it would

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Speaker 1: conceivably replace that bloated welfare state because libertarians are not

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Speaker 1: ones for big giant government bureaucracies. And also in the

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Speaker 1: same vein that thing about the universal basic income, just

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Speaker 1: being like, here's your money, go do what you want

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Speaker 1: with it. Not here's some money. You have to spend

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Speaker 1: it on food and wait, wait, wait, you have to

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Speaker 1: spend it on specifically these types of food. But libertarians

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Speaker 1: love it so because you're all you're just saying like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm the government, and I'm telling you how

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Speaker 1: to spend this money on this particular kind of food.

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Speaker 1: It's here's your money, you know, do what you want

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Speaker 1: with it, which is just libertarian dream kind of stuff. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And that economist Charles Murray said he was a conservative economist.

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Speaker 1: He's the one that's like, man, this is would cost

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Speaker 1: less than Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the SNAP program, right,

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Speaker 1: and the entire welfare state. We could get rid of it,

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Speaker 1: and this would actually be better for us in the

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Speaker 1: long run. Yeah, and cut down on just the the

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Speaker 1: bureaucracy and the paperwork, and uh, it's just it's a

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Speaker 1: much cleaner system. Yeah. Just the fact that the bureaucracy

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Speaker 1: itself would be slim down, which ironically would put a

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Speaker 1: bunch of people out of work. Um, that in and

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Speaker 1: of itself would be a cost efficiency savings right. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I guess there's a I was looking. I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: how much do we spend on entitlement programs in the

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Speaker 1: United States? And no one knows. Apparently there's like some

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Speaker 1: I saw a Heritage report, which I believe is the

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Speaker 1: conservative think tank. They were saying it actually there's like

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Speaker 1: a shadow um welfare program budget that's like a trillion

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Speaker 1: dollars in addition to the other trillion and a half

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Speaker 1: dollars that's on the books or whatever, um. So if

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Speaker 1: that's all correct, then this is about the same because

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Speaker 1: the rough estimates are that it cost about two point

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Speaker 1: three trillion dollars a year to mail a thousand dollar

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Speaker 1: check every month to every adult over eighteen in the

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Speaker 1: United States, roughly two million adults two point three trillion

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Speaker 1: dollars a year. But again, you're sending the same check

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Speaker 1: out to every single person over age eighteen, and that

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Speaker 1: in and of itself could be very easily automated, so

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Speaker 1: it would be cheaper to actually do even if the

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Speaker 1: actual amount of money you're shelling out is roughly the same. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and another one of the pros, and we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: some of the limited studies they've done on this, but

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Speaker 1: an interesting one in Kenya is they had a lot

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Speaker 1: of malnourishment due to drought, and so the government said,

428
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: you know what, instead of giving food aid to vulnerable households,

429
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: let's do a direct cash test basically, and they found

430
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: that about nine of these people they bought some food,

431
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: but nine of them also used it to launch small

432
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: businesses or to h to restock their heard of goats

433
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: or whatever kind of reinvest in themselves. And that's one

434
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: of the again, uh, the idealized version is people use

435
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: this money, um and in an entrepreneurial way. Yeah, and

436
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's these little pilot programs are just

437
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: coming back with really mixed results. But one of the

438
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: ones I saw, I think it was like a Nathan

439
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: Heller piece in New Yorker from a couple of years ago,

440
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: and he was talking about that Kenya experiment and he's

441
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: he pointed out one like one heavy drinking um resident,

442
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: uh use that money not to go on a bender,

443
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 1: but instead to buy like a taxicab and start his

444
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: own taxicab business. Bought a couple of like milk cows

445
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: and um and did a couple of other things that

446
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: that we're fairly surprising, considering most people would expect that

447
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: he would he would just um squandered it all on

448
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: booze or gambling or whatever whatever you might expect somebody

449
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: like that to do. That's one of the big fears

450
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: and of the big arguments against it is, I mean,

451
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: is it really a good idea to just give a

452
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month? No, strings attached to absolutely everybody,

453
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: including people who are addicted to whatever, including people who

454
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: um are terrible with money, including people who um are

455
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: are con artists, you know, like just because they're Americans.

456
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: And that's the I don't know if like that's a

457
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: one of the flaws, but also simultaneously one of the

458
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: benefits of it. Is yes, the answer is yes, everybody

459
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: gets it, and then it's up to that person to

460
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: to spend it in the best possible way. All right,

461
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: should we take another break? Sure? Man, Alright, we'll take

462
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: another break and talk about the criticisms and more like

463
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 1: how are they gonna pay for this? Right after this

464
00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: definition sk Alright, so if you are against this, that

465
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: you probably fall into one of two camps or both.

466
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: One is that it's expensive and how you're gonna pay

467
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: for this, and the other is sort of combined with

468
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: a lot of ways that certain Americans think, which is like,

469
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: you shouldn't get anything for free. There are no free lunches,

470
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 1: and if you do that, then people aren't gonna work.

471
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: They'll just find a way to live on that twelve

472
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: grand a year, and um, it won't change anything for them. Yeah,

473
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: which is you know, apparently some of the data that's

474
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: coming back from these trials are, like I said, they're mixed.

475
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: So some people, um, spend it on a taxi cab

476
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,959
Speaker 1: and start their own business, and other people are like,

477
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: I'm I don't have to work at all. This is great,

478
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: And that's that's a big problem. You don't. You don't

479
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: in a in a productive economy that relies on human labor.

480
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: A government program that basically pays people not to work

481
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: is disastrous, right, And that's one of the big the

482
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: big criticisms of the current welfare system is that it

483
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: traps people into cycle of poverty by disincentivizing them from

484
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: from working. Where if you reach a certain point with

485
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: your wages, you lose all of your safety net. You know,

486
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: you lose your food stamps, you lose your healthcare, you

487
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: lose unemployment checks, you lose all that stuff because you

488
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: now are employed. And on the one hand, it makes

489
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: sense because you don't need support supposedly, but the problem

490
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: is when it really washes out into practicality, you still

491
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: do need that support. But you've just been um booted

492
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: off of this stuff for working, So it's actually better

493
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: for you to not work. Um that's that's people say

494
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: they're worried about the same thing with universal basic income. Yeah,

495
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess what's important is the overall picture,

496
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: because there's the idealized version air You give people twelve

497
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: dollars a year and they're like, man, I was laid off.

498
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: Now can afford to go back to school and make

499
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: my rent every month and get a better job. Or

500
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: now I can concentrate on health and wellness and invest

501
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: in my children. Or I can care for my my,

502
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: my mother or my you know, family member who's old.

503
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: Or I can be a stay at home parent, or

504
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: just just live less stressed. Yeah, I mean those are

505
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: the idealized versions. There are also, of course, going to

506
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: be people that gambled a little away, or drink it

507
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: away or drug it away. Uh So the idea is

508
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: you look at the overall picture, does the good outweigh

509
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: the bad or vice versa, vice versa. I can't believe

510
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: I just said that. I like it. It's got a

511
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: little on yap to it, you know what I'm saying.

512
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: So it's that overall picture. But I think we need

513
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about how it would be

514
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: paid for. We talked a little bit about it. Redirecting

515
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: those safety net UH programs right now would be part

516
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: of it. Um. And this is like one of Yang's

517
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: proposals are a bunch of different ones. Um a value

518
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: added tax of ten which I read up on that

519
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's a little bit confusing to me. Yeah, Um,

520
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: what should we talk about it? What it is? Well, yeah,

521
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: I think just a little bit essentially, so from what

522
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: I gathered, and just correct me if I'm wrong. You

523
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: have a different understanding. But at each stage of production, um,

524
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: the thing is taxed. So as like a raw material

525
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: is sold to a manufacturer to make candy. I think

526
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: I saw that coco and all that stuff is taxed

527
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: at ten percent, right, Well then well then the manufacturer

528
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: turns that cocoa into candy and they sell it to

529
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: a retailer, it's taxed at ten percent. Then the retailer

530
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: sell it to the consumer, it's tax at timbercent. And

531
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: the government doesn't get ten percent tem percent, tem percent

532
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: like thirty of the total value. They get overall ten

533
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: percent of the total value. And that that's this value

534
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: add tax. And it's like they use it in Europe

535
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: and have for decades now. Basically everyone but the US

536
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: has a value added tax. The great part about it

537
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: is there's no way around it. You can't hire from

538
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: what I saw, you can't hire um a really great

539
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: accountant to find loopholes in the text code, like you're

540
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: going to pay this ten percent tax. It's a sales

541
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: tax for every stage of a product's life. So companies

542
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: can't get away with not paying any corporate taxes because

543
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: they're paying this consumption tax. The problem with it is you,

544
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: the consumer, are still paying that ultimate ten percent tax

545
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: on the end that's coming out of your pocket, even

546
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: if some of it's going to the business and some

547
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: of it's going to the government, and you're still paying that. Right,

548
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if I think, okay, it might it

549
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: might be in addition to but the thing that Yang's plan,

550
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: this was his big thing to use a value added

551
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: tax to pay for this um the basic income, was

552
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: that this would be mostly on luxury goods and that

553
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: basic staples and necessities would be exempted from this value

554
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: added tax, which would prevent it from being a regressive tax.

555
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: All right, that makes sense. So Yang also said, let's

556
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: tax um investment income, which would obviously target a certain

557
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: very small percentage of the country. Um, how about we

558
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: tax carbon polluters? Put a carbon tax? Right? Um? Some people,

559
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 1: like Bill Gates I think I mentioned earlier, He's like, Hey,

560
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: all these companies that are replacing people with robots, uh

561
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: and skirting payroll taxes and and medical insurance and stuff

562
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: like that, why don't you tax them with a robot tax?

563
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: Right that every every robot that they replace a human

564
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: being with or several human beings with tact have to

565
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: pay a tax for every single one, or software or

566
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: something like that. The problem that I saw with that

567
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: is that no one has any idea how to actually

568
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: quantify it. Like you can say, this robot replaced five

569
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: factory workers on the factory floor. That's easy enough. But

570
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: what is like software that helps you know, transfer phone

571
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: calls or something like that. How many people does that

572
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: this place? It's really hard to say, which is from

573
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: what I can tell at least on the Reddit Yang

574
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: Gang thread. Um, they explained it that like that's why

575
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: Yang went with a value added text because corporations can't

576
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: get around it. There's no way to loophole your way

577
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: out of it. And it's much more quantifiable than you know,

578
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: taxing software. So but that is so the But the

579
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: robot text still captures that same sentiment right there, that

580
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: the people who are the ones who are automating away

581
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: jobs are the ones who need to pay for the

582
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: people who are being put out of jobs. That's kind

583
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: of the spirit of the robot text, right. Um. As

584
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: far as studies, you know, it's sort of been all

585
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: over the place, there haven't been. I mean, there have

586
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: been some studies in Canada and the US and in

587
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: Europe that seem to indicate that the hey, these people

588
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: just won't want to work isn't really going to be

589
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: a problem. Like I said, some people will, of course,

590
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: but overall, these studies are coming back saying, now people

591
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: are going to use this in the spirit as it

592
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: is intended generally. Yeah, Um, so Ruse helped us put

593
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: this together. He he pointed to um the Alaska Permanent Fund.

594
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,879
Speaker 1: I'm not sure where he saw that, But that's so

595
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: small though, it's kind of a tough. It's not exactly

596
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: apples to apples dollars a resident a year. In two

597
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: thousand nineteen, each resident of Alaska received sixteen hundred dollars,

598
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: and it is just such a small amount that you

599
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly, you know, really work less because of that.

600
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: So hip Rob would find a way to get by

601
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: on six some some people would for sure. Right, you know,

602
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: you can go fish with your bare hands in Alaska,

603
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: so maybe that could supplement things. But but um, the

604
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: big question is, yeah, what really happens when you give

605
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of people, a large group of people,

606
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: twelve thousand dollars a year? You know, would that mean

607
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: that they would stop working and not even necessarily stop working,

608
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: but work less? And from what I saw, uh, it

609
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: seems to be on both sides of the aisle, or

610
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: both political stripes for economists that yeah, there probably will

611
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: be a reduction in um worked hours, but that it

612
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: would be nothing that would stall the economy out. People

613
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: are not going to just quit jobs and droves. They

614
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: just might work a little less. But is that necessarily

615
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: a bad thing? Like what are they doing with that time?

616
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: That's kind of what is the key factor? Are they volunteering?

617
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: Are they sitting around playing PlayStation games? Uh? That's some

618
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: Some other economists said that there, I can't remember which

619
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: one I said. There was a Technology Review article I

620
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: think I saw that really kind of they didn't poop

621
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: poo the concept. They just pooh pooed some points of it.

622
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: But one of the things they pointed to is that

623
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: there are plenty of studies out there that show that

624
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: when people reduce work hours, they just sit around and

625
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: watch TV. You know, you know, but um, the that's

626
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: not really what you want to do. But again, if

627
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: you're a libertarian economist, you would say, well, you know,

628
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: that's that's that's what people That is your right. But

629
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: then you should probably turn in your economist shield, because

630
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,320
Speaker 1: if you're an economist, you kind of want people working.

631
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: Unless you're John Maynard Keynes, um he wrote. We've talked

632
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: about him before. Kanesie and economics the usually the super

633
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: like government spend can spend its way out of a

634
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 1: session kind of stuff that all came from Kanes and

635
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 1: and I think nineteen thirty three, Kanes wrote this essay.

636
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: Oh man, I can't remember the name of it, but

637
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,919
Speaker 1: some something about you know, work in our grandchildren, something

638
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: about team Yang. He said he basically predicted in a

639
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: hundred years back in nineteen thirty three that we would

640
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: not be working any longer because we would have automated

641
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: all our jobs away. But everybody would be living a

642
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: life of leisure, and we missed that mark big time

643
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: for all all manner of reasons. But you could you

644
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: could kind of look at Kanes's prediction and say, well,

645
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: maybe he was off by fifty years. Maybe it's not

646
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: a hundred years, but the same thing is going to

647
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: happen fifty years or a hundred and fifty years from

648
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: when he predicted it back in nine And so some

649
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: people say, Okay, this robot tax idea in principle works

650
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: really well, or it could work really well, but we

651
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: are way premature with this, that this is something we

652
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: need to start doing thirty years from now, not now,

653
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: and that it would actually harmor economy if we do

654
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: it now because there are people who will stop working.

655
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: We would be paying some people to not work anymore.

656
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: And we still are adding hundreds of thousands of jobs

657
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: a quarter in the United States alone. We still need

658
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: human labor. So we don't want to prevent people from

659
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: doing it. But when when we do automate jobs like Gangbusters, um,

660
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: then yeah, we should take a significant amount of that

661
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: wealth that's going to be generated by these robots and

662
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: not only make sure that people have their basic necessities

663
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: provided for why not just make it so every single

664
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: person in America is wealthy compared to our standards here today,

665
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: just because we we have robots doing all this work

666
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: and generating all this wealth for us, why not just

667
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: share it for everybody. Why should just a handful of

668
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: people who own the robots have all the wealth while

669
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: everybody else has been put out of work? Why not

670
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: just make it so everybody's wealthy because the robots are

671
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 1: doing all the work for us, right, I agree? WHOA

672
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: And that has caused some people to say, well, wait

673
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: a minute. It makes you wonder why Silicon Valley is

674
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: into this whole thing as much as they are right now.

675
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: Have they seen like that this may be a road

676
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: that we follow in the next twenty thirty years. And

677
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: they're trying to stem the tide now and say, hey,

678
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: how about we give you guys ten thousand dollars a year, Actually,

679
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,320
Speaker 1: how about the federal government gives you guys ten thousands

680
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: of flush money just to basically get to be bought

681
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: off now cheaper now than we would be in the

682
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: future when the real problem starts to come along. And

683
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: so there are some people who say it's a good

684
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: idea in principle, but it it's too soon, and we

685
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: need to be wary of people who come bearing gifts

686
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: of ten thousand dollars a year today. Yeah, interesting, I

687
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: thought so too. We talked to we promised a little

688
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: history this UM. I think you mentioned Canes, But in

689
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: the late nineteen thirties there was a free market economist

690
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: named Milton Milton Friedman, I'm sorry, Milton Milton Friedman who

691
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: had an idea sort of like this UM to ensure

692
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: that people had a minimum standard of living. But this

693
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: was through it was called a negative income tax. So

694
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: it essentially works kind of the same way. Once you

695
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: do your taxes, if you were below a certain threshold,

696
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: then you would actually get money from the i R.

697
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: S Uh. We mentioned Martin Luther King. What might surprise

698
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: you is that a little guy name Tricky Dick Nixon

699
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: in this surprising, very surprising. We were surprised by some

700
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: of these recently. What was that he was the first

701
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: president that had the first African American guest in the

702
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: Lincoln bedroom, who was Sammy Davis Jr. That's right. So

703
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,919
Speaker 1: in nineteen nine Nixon said, hey, how about this, Why

704
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: don't we start a program where UM it's the equivalent

705
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: of about eleven eleven grand a year today, where we

706
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: pay people six hundred dollars a year plus food stamps

707
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: if you, um are a family of four that doesn't

708
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: have an income. Basically, I mean, here's a quote that says,

709
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: what I'm proposing is that the federal government build the

710
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: foundation under the income of every American family that cannot

711
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: care for itself, and wherever in America that family may live.

712
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: This was Richard x In saying this. Yeah, and then

713
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: that's universal basic income to a uh, to a certain degree.

714
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: It's not everybody, but he's saying, hey, if you don't

715
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: have any money and you're an American, then we'll give

716
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: some to you, because you have a right to have

717
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 1: a very basic level of income. Yeah. It was called

718
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: the Family Assistance Plan that that UM actor was, or

719
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: that bill was, and it went and made its way

720
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: through Congress, and Congress said no, but they there was

721
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: a um There was one part of it that the Senate,

722
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: I guess said, oh, we like this though. It was

723
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: a work requirement, and so from that point on, if

724
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: you wanted federal assistance, you had to prove that you

725
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: were working. And that still survives today, and it's been

726
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: upheld by you know, not just GOP presidents, but Bill

727
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: Clinton made sure that that was part of his welfare

728
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: reforms as well. Sure, and it came from that. So

729
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: they said, now we're going to do away with this

730
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: guaranteed minimum income, but we like the work requirement part,

731
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: and that was the legacy of it. Yeah, I mean,

732
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: one thing is for sure, if this has any traction

733
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: in the United States, there's going to have to be

734
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: a lot more data behind these trial programs. And even

735
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: if that data comes back in the positive that this

736
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: would be a good thing, there would need to be

737
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: a sea change of of of thought change with a

738
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: lot of Americans about giving people money. Yeah, we would

739
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: basically have to say, like the point of life is

740
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: not work, which is not the way Americans think these days.

741
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: I mean we might say that we don't, but no,

742
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: we actually act differently. Like working is largely the purpose

743
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: of life, and there's a lot of like pleasure to

744
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: be gained from, like feeling productive. And I think even

745
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 1: if everybody did have it was able to just stop

746
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: working and be wealthy, people would still find stuff to do.

747
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: You'd still go like garden or learned to to paint.

748
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: Like you wouldn't just lay around and smoke opium all

749
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: day or anything like that. Most of wouldn't write. So, um,

750
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: I think there is like a lot of value to work.

751
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: But um, the I forgot where what started this off?

752
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: What did you say? Uh? When I was saying there

753
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: would need to be a sea change of the government

754
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: is giving handouts to people right right, and that that

755
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: the value of work was divorced from the right to

756
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: to live life wealthy or cared for. That it would

757
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 1: it would require an enormous change. Although there are programs

758
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: in place right now that kind of kind of resemble this,

759
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: and some some people say, hey, there's this thing called

760
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: the earned income tax credit that um that where it's

761
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: basically Melton Freedman's negative income tax thing. And you you

762
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: know Freeman, he was basically one of the architects of neoliberalism. Um,

763
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: so this negative income tax planning came up with kind

764
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: of became the earned income tax which is, um, there

765
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: earned income tax credit, which is if you're below a

766
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: certain level of income, not only do you not have

767
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,959
Speaker 1: to pay tax, this tax credit actually pays you back

768
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: like you can get a check from the I R

769
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 1: S rather than vice versa, and then it fades out

770
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: as you go, you know, you get further along the

771
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: scale of wealth until it's you don't get anything and

772
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: you're paying lots of taxes. So that's when you've got

773
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,439
Speaker 1: all those great loopholes, right exactly. No, that's after that part,

774
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: you know, that's beyond like a middle class and upper class.

775
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: That's that point one percent stuff right. So, um, some

776
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 1: people are saying, forget this universal basic income. We've already

777
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 1: got this earned income tax credit. Let's expand that. Let's

778
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: make it so more people are are able to get it. Um.

779
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: One of the big criticisms is that it uh incentivizes

780
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: people to have children that they might not otherwise have. Well, yes,

781
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: I think it is from what I from what I've

782
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: seen that it is at the very least if you're

783
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: talking in hypotheticals like we were talking about the idealized version,

784
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's at least as real as that. So, like,

785
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: there are people that are like, man, let's go have

786
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: a few more kids to get those sweet rite offs.

787
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: Well here's the thing. Let me put it to you

788
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: like this, if you're a family with three or more kids,

789
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: your maximum earned income tax credit is eighteen dollars. If

790
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: you have zero kids, your maximum is five and ten dollars. Right,

791
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: kids are nothing but a money drain. Totally true. And

792
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: so you remember that conservative the conservative economists what was

793
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: his name, Um, Charles what Murray, Yeah, Charles Murray. He

794
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: but he pointed out that under the current entitlement welfare system, UM,

795
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: there are programs where you get additional benefits if you

796
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: have kids, which theoretically, um, and can incentivize somebody to

797
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: have a kid that they might not otherwise have. Right.

798
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: One of the things that he said, this is a

799
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: great thing about your basic income is it does away

800
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: with those entitlement programs and replaces it with that money.

801
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: And now all of a sudden, you're disincentivised to have

802
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: a kid you wouldn't otherwise have because all you have

803
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: is that ten grand and you can keep it all yourself,

804
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 1: or you can have a kid and have to support

805
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: your kid with that ten grand because nobody else is

806
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: going to help you support the kid. Right, there's no benefits.

807
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,439
Speaker 1: You don't get ten grand plus two grand for having

808
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: a kid. Do you get ten grand? No matter if

809
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: you have zero kids or ten kids. Right, so on

810
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: that in that sense, it kind of disincentivizes people from

811
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: having kids where they otherwise wouldn't. But and this is

812
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: why some GOOP people love it, like that whole focus

813
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: on the family thing. Although the GOP doesn't have the

814
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: market cornered on families, that's not what I mean to say,

815
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: but there is a bit of a focus on like

816
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: traditional families and family values. And this is I think

817
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: who he was kind of speaking to was if you

818
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 1: are a couple and you pull your your ten thousand

819
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: dollars together a year, you've got twenty tho dollars, but

820
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 1: you're also just having to pay a rent, wants pay

821
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: for you know, maybe a car, maybe two um groceries

822
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: for the whole house. Like, like, there's an economy of

823
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 1: scale to building a family, and so now it makes

824
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: sense to have kids more than it does just by

825
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: yourself with that ten grand you know what I'm saying.

826
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: But if you want to save all your money, don't

827
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: have kids or pets, right right, that's just basic economy

828
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: one O one, keep all that sweet dough for yourself. Yeah, exactly.

829
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know if if like you were asking,

830
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 1: if that's like if that actually does happen in real life,

831
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: and to what degree. I don't know, Man, I just

832
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: have a hard time believing that there's that much like

833
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: planning of Like, well, let me think here, if I

834
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: have three kids, I could get back all this tax

835
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: money and they would cost me this much, and here's

836
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: what the difference would be. So I'm coming out ahead

837
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: by like a thousand dollars a year, right, And even

838
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: if there are people doing that, like what proportion of

839
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: the general population do they present, and is it really

840
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: enough to prevent you know, taking uh risks that could

841
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: have huge payoffs, like something like a universal basic income,

842
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: just because a few people are going to do it wrong,

843
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, I I would for me the answers no,

844
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: But I'm not fully sold on the universal basic income

845
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: now right, I'm not either. And I'm also for someone

846
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: who just said keep all that sweet money for yourself.

847
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: This is coming from someone who has four pets and

848
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: an adopted child, right, So I'm I'm the biggest chump

849
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 1: in the history of jumps. And well and also if

850
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: we're getting all like, you know, self perspective and all

851
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: that stuff, we should probably say it's a lot easier

852
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 1: for us to be like, we don't need that universal

853
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: basic income now because you and I don't necessarily need it,

854
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: but there are plenty of people who really do need it.

855
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: Suld put it to give you, So maybe we should

856
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: just keep our fat mouth shut. Well. I would like

857
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: to think that if this kind of thing came along,

858
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 1: I can pay my bills and I would donate that money.

859
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 1: There you go, just starting out, Chuck, Chuck, what a

860
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: great guy. You know you got anything? Else? What I

861
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: feel guilty about is not doating enough time. Oh yeah,

862
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: you know, because like donating money is great, but feed

863
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 1: on the ground. Volunteer work is is very valuable, valuable

864
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: and valued, and the best thing you can possibly do

865
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: is walk around volunteering and throwing money, tossing it just

866
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: like Hey, I'm here to uh clean up the dog

867
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: kennels and here's a wad of cash, exactly, But you

868
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: have to do it like de Niro, Like, you know,

869
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: you shake somebody's hand and all of a sudden you

870
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: got like happen, right, and where a suit while you're

871
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: cleaning up the dog kennels. Oh man, I wish I

872
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: was cool enough to palm a fifty dollar bill without

873
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: noticing all it takes is practice. It's right. Um. Okay, Well,

874
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about universal basic income,

875
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: just moved to Silicon Valley and start talking to people.

876
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: Although I am curious if it's not hot any longer,

877
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: what's the new thing? Let me know Silicon Value. Okay,

878
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: let us know. And since I said let us know

879
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, it's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna

880
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: call this from a listener I met in person. Recently.

881
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: I've been doing, as you know, a little bit of

882
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: alumnus work with the University of Georgia. Uh, doing some

883
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: a little speaking thing the other night. Nice, how did

884
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: it go? It went great? You know, it went really

885
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 1: really great. I had a lot of fun and I

886
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: was able to speak to about seventy five semi recent

887
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: graduates about podcasting and everyone was super cool. There were

888
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 1: a lot of uh, a lot of stuff. You should

889
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: know people in the audience that were just delighted to

890
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: get in a small room at a whiskey distillery. Oh

891
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: that's a great place for it. Big shout out to

892
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: the A. S W Distillery. Another alumnus. Nice. Uh, make

893
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: they make some good stuff, you know what, something you'll

894
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: get a kick out of is. During the Q and A,

895
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: one of the first questions they said was what was

896
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,479
Speaker 1: your reaction when you were first asked to come back

897
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: and talk to the university students and stuff like that.

898
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: And I said, my first reaction, honestly, was what took

899
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: you so long? I think I've been waiting for years

900
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: for U g A too, you know, show me a

901
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,479
Speaker 1: little love stick it to him, Chuck, And they laughed.

902
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: They thought it was funny you put him on the spot.

903
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 1: I did. I like, uh, but this was from Greg Bell.

904
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: And I met Greg afterward and he told me a

905
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: great story and I was like, you know what, send

906
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: that in an email and I'll and I'll read it.

907
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: So he said, hey, Chuck, had a great pleasure of

908
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: meeting you at the Young Alumni event about ten years ago.

909
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: I was about six months away from graduating high school

910
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: and had big plans to become a long haul truck driver.

911
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: I stumbled across your podcast while looking for things to

912
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: listen to on the road and was hooked. Your show

913
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: was incredible to me because I didn't think I liked learning,

914
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: but every Tuesday and Thursday morning I found myself refreshing

915
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: my podcast speed just to see what you guys would

916
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: be talking about over the next few months. Back then,

917
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: I came to realize that I loved learning and I

918
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: love telling other people about the things I was learning from.

919
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 1: You both talked about you so much that I got

920
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: my dad and my wife to both start listening, And

921
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: now we have conversations every time we're together about what

922
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: episodes we've been listening to. Um, we love this stuff.

923
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: When families, I'll eat this up all day. Yeah, man,

924
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: family that listens Stuff you Should Know together rarely argues sure.

925
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,720
Speaker 1: I think that's the same. You were both a major

926
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: factor and me ultimately making a decision to stay in

927
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: school and get my undergrad degree in history. Today, I

928
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: am an educator at an art museum in North Georgia,

929
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 1: and I seriously can't imagine how much different my life

930
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: would be if I hadn't found Stuff you Should Know

931
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: when I did. Thank you both so much for the

932
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: work that you do in the impact you have on

933
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: so many people around the world. If you ever find

934
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: yourselves in Cartersville, would like a tour at the booth

935
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: Western Art Museum. Oh, that's a good one. I would

936
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: be more than happy to make that happen, and that

937
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: is from Greg Bell. And I met Greg and his

938
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: wife and they were just great, super super cool. Greg

939
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: Bell is one of the most U g A names

940
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: I've ever heard in my life, you think, aside from

941
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: maybe Tucker Carlson, and I don't think he went to

942
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 1: U g A. But that's a the different side of

943
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: you g A. Greg Bell is like straight ahead, you

944
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: g A name. I like it, Greg Bell Freshman. I

945
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: think I might take them up on that um that

946
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 1: museum tour. You love your museums, I do, I do.

947
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: I just gotta make it up to Cartersville. That's the downside.

948
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: Oh that'd be great. Uh, well, if you want to

949
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: get in touch with us, like Greg did apparently show

950
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: up at Chuck speaking gigs at Whiskey Distilleries. Yeah, there's

951
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: some more of those coming up. If you're a ug alumnus,

952
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: pay attention. That's awesome, Chuck, seriously, pay attention to everybody. UM.

953
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: And if you are not a U g A alumnus

954
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:36,919
Speaker 1: or you can't make it out to one of these things,

955
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: you can also get in touch with this via email.

956
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: Wrap your email up, spank it on the bottom, and

957
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 1: send it off to stuff podcast that iHeart radio dot com.

958
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio's

959
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my heart radio

960
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 1: because at the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

961
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows