1
00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: AH, beaut force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

2
00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:25,440
Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, Military

3
00:00:25,520 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community.

4
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,480
Speaker 1: Soft rep dot com on time, on target, and really

5
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 1: excited to talk to this episode with Speaks, episode with

6
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,480
Speaker 1: Rob Trabino. UH. He's the author of A Warrior's Path,

7
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,560
Speaker 1: Lessons in Leadership, has an amazing background. UH, really rich

8
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 1: history in the army. UH in special Operations. UH. Checking

9
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 1: out what's up right now at soft rep dot com.

10
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,680
Speaker 1: You can see an article that Kurt Troeder wrote an

11
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: air strike in Syria that no one seems to know

12
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,840
Speaker 1: anything about. H. That's worth reading. And the big news today,

13
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 1: I guess would be Trump announcing the Space Force as

14
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,360
Speaker 1: the sixth branch of the Armed Forces. UM, I just

15
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 1: want to drop ship. Well, you know what, let's play

16
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,920
Speaker 1: the speech that Trump gave and I'll have you react

17
00:01:55,960 --> 00:02:01,600
Speaker 1: to this very importantly. I'm here by directing the Department

18
00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:07,120
Speaker 1: of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary

19
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 1: to establish a Space Force as the sixth branch of

20
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 1: the Armed Forces. That's a big statement. We are going

21
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,960
Speaker 1: to have the Air Force and we are going to

22
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 1: have the Space force, separate but equal. It is going

23
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,320
Speaker 1: to be something so important, General Dunford, if you would

24
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,960
Speaker 1: carry that assignment out, I would be very greatly honored. Also,

25
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 1: where's General Dunford. General got it? Let's go get it, General.

26
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,639
Speaker 1: But that's the importance that we give it. We're going

27
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,440
Speaker 1: to have the Space Force. One year ago I revived

28
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,800
Speaker 1: the National Space Council and put exactly the right man

29
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 1: in charge, and that's our friend Mike Pence. Feels very

30
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,440
Speaker 1: strongly about this, and in December I signed a historic

31
00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,880
Speaker 1: directive that will return Americans to the Moon for the

32
00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 1: first time since nine seventy two, if you can believe that.

33
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,840
Speaker 1: Always remembering it's about that, but it's also about jobs

34
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,080
Speaker 1: and the economy. This is a great thing we're doing.

35
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 1: This time. We will do more than plant our flag

36
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: and leave our footprints. We will establish a long term presence,

37
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 1: expand our economy, and build the foundation for an eventual

38
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 1: mission to Mars, which is actually going to happen very quickly. Yeah,

39
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:58,000
Speaker 1: so there we go, m A R S. Mars Red Rocks.

40
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, this is a aage announcement. I

41
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 1: would say, Uh, some people think, well, you know, it's

42
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 1: absurd but the whole idea of the militarization is space

43
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: is not a new idea, and the space program from

44
00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,600
Speaker 1: its its inception has been very much tied to the military. Um,

45
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,320
Speaker 1: you know, I could even think of things that Neil

46
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,000
Speaker 1: de grass Tyson has said before, saying that you know,

47
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 1: people are uh, really unaware of why the whole space

48
00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 1: race started if they don't think it's related to us

49
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,359
Speaker 1: just trying to defeat Russia. It's unfortunately never just about

50
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 1: space exploration. There is always some military motive there. Yeah. Well,

51
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 1: I mean the history of warfare is the history of standoff. Right.

52
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,839
Speaker 1: You want to have as be as far back away

53
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,280
Speaker 1: from the enemy while having the longest ranged weapons system possible.

54
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 1: So like you know, uh, you know, one force would

55
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,680
Speaker 1: have ten foot spears, so the next would have twelve

56
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,360
Speaker 1: foot spears, and it would go on and on, and

57
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:55,800
Speaker 1: then you get the bow and arrow, and then you

58
00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,040
Speaker 1: get guns, canons, etcetera, etcetera. Well, space is the ultimate

59
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 1: high ground. So, I mean it's always been something that

60
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 1: we sought to weaponize and we have for decades. As

61
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 1: you mentioned, Um, I don't think I'm like necessarily acquainted

62
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 1: well enough with the bureaucracy to understand or fully be

63
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,279
Speaker 1: able to know the relevance or importance of creating a

64
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 1: separate space force. Right, the Air Force and other agencies

65
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,800
Speaker 1: all have some sort of um per view over things

66
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,039
Speaker 1: that we put into space. Um, but could this be

67
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 1: a good development? I mean, if you accept the idea

68
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: that you know, man Kintent's future is ultimately in space,

69
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,039
Speaker 1: then it makes sense to have a space force, right. Uh,

70
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,840
Speaker 1: if we're going to see an increasing weaponization of space. If, um,

71
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 1: if other countries like China are gonna put weapons platforms

72
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,960
Speaker 1: into orbit or maybe even on the Moon, then it

73
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,160
Speaker 1: makes sense to have a space force. Uh. As far

74
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,279
Speaker 1: as like the announcement to like, we're going to Mars

75
00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 1: and we're going to the Moon, that's that all sounds

76
00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,560
Speaker 1: kind of weird. I mean, didn't George Bush announced that

77
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 1: we were sending a manned mission to the Moon? I

78
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,799
Speaker 1: don't remember. To be honest, I'm sorry, a manned mission

79
00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 1: to Mars. I believe George Bush announced that. So I

80
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,800
Speaker 1: don't know, is it, Like, what is he How serious

81
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,359
Speaker 1: is it when he says we're going back to the

82
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,240
Speaker 1: Moon or that we're going to Mars? I don't know.

83
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,240
Speaker 1: The one valid criticism I do see on social media

84
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 1: this um beyond like a lot of silly criticism, is

85
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,800
Speaker 1: just that you know, how much is this going to cost?

86
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,599
Speaker 1: And look at all the infrastructure problems we have in

87
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,920
Speaker 1: America are being taken care of, the biggest of which

88
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 1: I mean, by far, I think would be the Flint,

89
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,719
Speaker 1: Michigan water crisis, which these people still do not of

90
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,480
Speaker 1: clean water, and the whole excuses that we we can't

91
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,840
Speaker 1: we don't have the money basically to create a whole

92
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 1: new system of them getting water there. Well, it's all

93
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,000
Speaker 1: over the country. Our infrastructure sucks. We can't build anything new.

94
00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 1: We can't build any new trains, we can't build new roads.

95
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 1: We can, I would say that's the biggest. I mean

96
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,080
Speaker 1: every area of the country. I don't care how how

97
00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 1: poor should have water, like those are third world problems,

98
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 1: and uh it is I think inexcusable that we have

99
00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,560
Speaker 1: not fixed this for what about two years now at

100
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 1: this point, I don't know. I mean, it's a valid criticism,

101
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 1: like why can't we spend money on all of this

102
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,200
Speaker 1: various assorted stuff. How come we can build new roads

103
00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,600
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan but we can't build them here. I mean,

104
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,440
Speaker 1: it's it's shameful. Really. Um, it'll be interesting to see

105
00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 1: with the quote unquote Space Force. I mean, is it

106
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,240
Speaker 1: really just going to be like a reorganization and we're

107
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 1: just taking like Air Force assets and shifting them over

108
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,320
Speaker 1: to a new agency. I mean, is it really going

109
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,160
Speaker 1: to cost us more? What's the funding gonna be? Like,

110
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 1: where's the money gonna come? Yeah? All those are all

111
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,480
Speaker 1: things that have to be answered. Well. I did post

112
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 1: on Instagram, um photo of Trump announcing this, because you know,

113
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 1: it's very much in the wheelhouse of what we do.

114
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,000
Speaker 1: It's military and you know the executive branch. Uh. So

115
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,720
Speaker 1: after I posted that, I saw that Brandon web comment

116
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 1: that I can't wait to see the Space Camo. And

117
00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 1: then and then some guy on our Instagram, the Burrito Sentsa, wrote,

118
00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see them keep issuing different camo

119
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,760
Speaker 1: every few years. Yeah, I got an idea. I got

120
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,320
Speaker 1: an idea, all black, What do you think of that?

121
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,120
Speaker 1: And then they just have to change the two slightly

122
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 1: different shade of black maybe, I guess years down the line.

123
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,560
Speaker 1: And then but then when we go to when we

124
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,040
Speaker 1: go to Mars, it's gonna have to be read. Yeah,

125
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 1: damn it, this is so hard. Um. All right, Well,

126
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,440
Speaker 1: before we get to Rob, I also have an email

127
00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:37,079
Speaker 1: here from uh Mark Delaney UH commenting on our episode

128
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 1: with Dr Wang. Highly appreciated you all having Dr Wang

129
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,839
Speaker 1: on the podcast to let him and you all know

130
00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 1: how the Secretary of Arms Armies policies are playing out

131
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 1: online units. While he removed the requirement from d A,

132
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,840
Speaker 1: unit commanders can keep these policies in place. My company

133
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,480
Speaker 1: still does t R I p s because our first

134
00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,560
Speaker 1: sergeant can't fathom cutting the requirement. Line leaders, especially senior

135
00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:03,840
Speaker 1: n c o s, are the target audience that this

136
00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,199
Speaker 1: message really needs to reach. Yeah, I read that email. UM.

137
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,520
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting, and I know exactly what

138
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 1: the dude is talking about, because you know, senior leaders,

139
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 1: senior n c o s in the military their institutionalized.

140
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,440
Speaker 1: It was like when when the army went away from

141
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 1: having you know, we used to there's a such thing

142
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,600
Speaker 1: as shining your boots. At one time, we wore jungle

143
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,120
Speaker 1: boots or all leather boots, and you had to get

144
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 1: out your keywi and polish your boots and everything every day. Um,

145
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,640
Speaker 1: that has gone away because now the force wears those

146
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,439
Speaker 1: desert boots that are made out of like that kind

147
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,320
Speaker 1: of suede leather type material. Um, and like their first

148
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,839
Speaker 1: sergeants who are like freaking out about this because it's like, oh,

149
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 1: we're not gonna shine our boots anymore. I've been shining

150
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,640
Speaker 1: my boots for eighteen years. And then it turns into,

151
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,120
Speaker 1: well what do I do for a living if I

152
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 1: don't go around then I yell at at soldiers for

153
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 1: not having their boots shiny enough. Um. So it's like institutionalization,

154
00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,000
Speaker 1: that's what he's talking about there. It's like we're so

155
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 1: used to doing it the sway that senior leaders just

156
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,840
Speaker 1: cannot fathom like letting go of these like stupid requirements.

157
00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,080
Speaker 1: You know. It's just a difference and mindset between you know,

158
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,360
Speaker 1: kind of just sitting back and saying, well, that's the

159
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,960
Speaker 1: way we've always done things here, versus accepting that we

160
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,800
Speaker 1: need to evolve and we need to change, um and

161
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 1: delegating responsibility down to lower leaders and giving them the

162
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,640
Speaker 1: authority to make decisions. Yeah. So, um. Keep sending your

163
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,079
Speaker 1: emails to soft Rep dot Radio at soft rep dot com.

164
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,320
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that episode in particular. I like speaking

165
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 1: with Jack divine as well, since that was two great

166
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,000
Speaker 1: guests on one episode. Um so yeah, before we get

167
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 1: to Rob Travino. Uh, there's only one club out there

168
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:49,400
Speaker 1: with gear handpicked by special operations military veterans from several branches,

169
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,360
Speaker 1: and that of course is Great Club. Past items we've

170
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 1: had in our creates have been Emerson knives of black

171
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 1: Hawk Industrials, medical pouch, and cool stuff like a custom

172
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 1: playing card set from a clusive photo shoot we did

173
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 1: of some hot models with guns and in school. We

174
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,960
Speaker 1: check that out. We have different tiers of membership depending

175
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,240
Speaker 1: on how prepared you want to be, and gift options

176
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,840
Speaker 1: are available as well. You can check that all out

177
00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 1: at Great Club dot Us. Once again, that's Great Club

178
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,280
Speaker 1: dot Us. For your dog owners, check this out. You're

179
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,200
Speaker 1: gonna love this. We've just partnered with Kuna. They have

180
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,199
Speaker 1: a team of trained canine handlers picking out a box

181
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:29,080
Speaker 1: through dog each month of healthy treats, training aids. It's

182
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,200
Speaker 1: custom built through dogs size and age as well. The

183
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,960
Speaker 1: products are US sourced, all natural and not only promote

184
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,120
Speaker 1: a healthy diet, but also promote being active with your dogs.

185
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,120
Speaker 1: So whether we're talking to pitbull or chihuahua, this is

186
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 1: just what you're looking for. You can see all of

187
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 1: that at Kuna dot dog. That's Kuna dot dog. It's

188
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 1: efficient for you. Your dog will appreciate it as well,

189
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 1: of course, and that's spelled CEU n A dot d

190
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 1: o G. Also as a reminder for those who are listening,

191
00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,120
Speaker 1: for a limited time you can receive a fifty or

192
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 1: sent discounted membership to the spec Ops Channel. That's our

193
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,760
Speaker 1: channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries and interviews

194
00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,760
Speaker 1: covering the most exciting military content today. The spec ops

195
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 1: channel Premier Show Training Cell follows former Special Operations Forces

196
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 1: as they participate in the most advanced training in the country,

197
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:26,239
Speaker 1: everything from shooting schools, defensive driving, jungle and winter warfare,

198
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,720
Speaker 1: climbing and much more. Again, you can watch this content

199
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 1: by subscribing to the spec Ops channel that's at spec

200
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 1: ops channel dot com and take advantage of a limited

201
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 1: time offer of fifty off your membership. That's only four

202
00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 1: a month and you check out the spec Ops channel app.

203
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,240
Speaker 1: So joining us on Software Radio for the first time.

204
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,760
Speaker 1: Rob Trevino. Rob is a former Special Missions Unit operator

205
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,360
Speaker 1: also served in the Army eighteenth Airborne Corps and seventy

206
00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,480
Speaker 1: five Ranger Regiment, so a real history there and the

207
00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,440
Speaker 1: author of A Warrior's Path Lessons in Leadership. Rob now

208
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 1: runs Evergreen Mountain Now All c which is a tactical

209
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 1: instructions course, all different types of courses on there. Looking

210
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,880
Speaker 1: at the website which check out, it's Evergreen Mountain USA

211
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,920
Speaker 1: dot com. But Rob, thanks for joining us. Man. We're

212
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,120
Speaker 1: excited to have you on. I'm excited to be here.

213
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,839
Speaker 1: Thank you both for having me. Yeah, Rob, I should

214
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,640
Speaker 1: just preface this a little bit. Um, I'm sorry that

215
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 1: it took us so long to get you on the podcast,

216
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,880
Speaker 1: because this has literally been like I don't know how

217
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,720
Speaker 1: many years in the making in a sense, which and

218
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,160
Speaker 1: it's totally my fault. Um. Tom Greer, you know, most

219
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,959
Speaker 1: of you know him as Dalton Fury before he passed away,

220
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 1: he asked me to uh, you know, review Rob's book,

221
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 1: and it was just one of those things. I'm so

222
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 1: sorry Rob, it it just took a long time for

223
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 1: us to get around to it. Um, one of those

224
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:51,880
Speaker 1: things that fell by the way, So I didn't really

225
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,880
Speaker 1: shouldn't have. Um. I'm about halfway through the book right

226
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 1: now and I'm really really enjoying it. Great. Thanks for

227
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,040
Speaker 1: reading it. It really appreciate it. Um. You know, maybe

228
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,920
Speaker 1: you know the right way to start this. Uh. You

229
00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,600
Speaker 1: know your company is named Evergreen Mountain, but there's a

230
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,360
Speaker 1: bit more behind that name. Do you want to tell

231
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 1: us a little bit about that. Yeah, sure, I'll try

232
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,480
Speaker 1: to keep it short. So, UM, for the all your

233
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 1: listeners out there who don't have a small business or

234
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 1: any business, for the first thing you have to do

235
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,440
Speaker 1: is to create a name because the government needs to

236
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 1: collect your taxes. So UM, I was struggling on the

237
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 1: name when I was in my former unit, my last

238
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,520
Speaker 1: unit in the army. My code name was Rat and

239
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 1: UM I was trying to find all the cool rat names,

240
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,800
Speaker 1: tactical rat, Rat, tactic rat, the really cool guy, and

241
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 1: they were all taken. And I was voicing my frustration

242
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,960
Speaker 1: over over the issue. My wife looks at me and says, hey,

243
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 1: why don't you just use your Indian name. I'm Native

244
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,600
Speaker 1: American and my warrior name is Evergreen Mountains. So that's

245
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 1: what it is. Very cool. And you write in the

246
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: book that the name was given to you, um by

247
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 1: you know, tribal elders after your first combat tour. I

248
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 1: believe right right, So where I'm from. And then I think, well,

249
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,160
Speaker 1: I don't think. I'm almost positive that most um Native

250
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 1: American tribes in the United States have a warrior society.

251
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,480
Speaker 1: Most if not all, Um Native peoples here in the

252
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: US are are a warrior based society. So for me,

253
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,600
Speaker 1: when I came back from my first combat experience, my

254
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,440
Speaker 1: mom and and and my dad said, hey, you've got

255
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,520
Speaker 1: to go see the medicine man, and they took me,

256
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 1: and Um, I wasn't sure what it was all about,

257
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 1: but they knew and they hadn't told me. And then um,

258
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: they renamed me. My initial um boyhood name was Bobcat,

259
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 1: and then they granted Mary gave me my warriors name,

260
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 1: which is an evergreen mountain. You want to talk a

261
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,600
Speaker 1: little bit about that. About your background, um rowing up,

262
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 1: I think largely in New Mexico, if I recall correctly.

263
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:09,680
Speaker 1: And uh, and at least partially on an Indian reservation. Yeah.

264
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 1: I didn't spend a whole lot of time on on

265
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,120
Speaker 1: on any one of the two Indian reservations that or

266
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 1: and two reservations that I lived on we lived on.

267
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,040
Speaker 1: I am enrolled in coach Ti Peblo, which is a

268
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 1: in northern New Mexico. But I am also Yaki Indian

269
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 1: from southern Mexico. I'm sorry, southern Arizona and northern Mexico

270
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:37,080
Speaker 1: and Sonora. So um. We initially lived on coach at Peblo,

271
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 1: which is where my mom is from, and um, the

272
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 1: elders basically kicked us off the Peblo um kind of

273
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 1: holding to their tradition that whenever a woman marries a

274
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,000
Speaker 1: man that is not from that Peblo, she has to

275
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 1: go with him wherever he goes. And my dad is

276
00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,160
Speaker 1: not from there, so we couldn't stay there. Basically, they

277
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 1: asked us to leave, and so immediately after that we

278
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: went down to northern Mexico into Sonora and um we

279
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 1: lived with the Yachties for about a year. But of

280
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,640
Speaker 1: those super brutal it's totally it's a different world down there.

281
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,960
Speaker 1: No running water. Um. We were living in a dirt

282
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,720
Speaker 1: floor home made out of bamboo, cooking outside on the fire.

283
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it was very very uh rough, and it

284
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,720
Speaker 1: was pretty hard for my mom to do simple things

285
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 1: to keep us clean because we were continually um uh.

286
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,439
Speaker 1: We had fleas in our hair all the time. But

287
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,679
Speaker 1: we were running around happy kids out there. But it's

288
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 1: my mom finally said, hey, we had to get back

289
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 1: to the states Man. This is pretty rough, even for her.

290
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 1: She didn't grow up with a whole lot, but it

291
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: was still kind of kind of rough, and the bottom line,

292
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,399
Speaker 1: she wanted us to get back into school. So we

293
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,919
Speaker 1: came back and moved north into northern New Mexico, found

294
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 1: a place and bopped around a little bit and essentially

295
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 1: established some roots. Finally when I was I think in

296
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,719
Speaker 1: eighth or ninth grade, and and that's pretty much how

297
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 1: it was for us. We didn't grow up with a

298
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,879
Speaker 1: whole lot. We're really really poor, dirt poor, and so

299
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 1: we just made to do with what we what we had.

300
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 1: I really thought it was interesting in your book and

301
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 1: you describe your relationship with your father, and you know,

302
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 1: on one hand, he is uh, you know, he comes

303
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,880
Speaker 1: across in your book as somebody who's harsh, but also

304
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 1: he clearly loved you guys. You know, in his approach

305
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,680
Speaker 1: to fatherhood seemed to be um not so much about

306
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 1: you know, hugs and kisses. It was about teaching you

307
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,360
Speaker 1: the things you need to survive in life. And since

308
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,439
Speaker 1: your book is about leadership, you know, that's kind of

309
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 1: the opening of your book. I was wondering if you

310
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about that a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely,

311
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 1: My father, like myself and every other father out there,

312
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 1: was not perfect and far from perfect, actually, Lee and

313
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 1: he had his flaws and we tend to do tend

314
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,199
Speaker 1: to focus on those as as children and even as

315
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 1: a growing up looking back and say, you don't know what,

316
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm not going to raise my kids that way. But

317
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 1: he instilled a few um things into his children that

318
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:22,200
Speaker 1: still um are part of our or character, I guess

319
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 1: would be the best way to describe it. And the

320
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 1: very first one was he taught us is that if

321
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 1: you want to go anywhere or have anything in this life,

322
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: you've got to work for it. And that's the bottom line.

323
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 1: And we worked our butts off as kids and emmanual labor.

324
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 1: I mean, by the time we were eleven twelve, my

325
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,680
Speaker 1: brother and I we were doing everything that the men

326
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 1: were doing. And so that was a probably the biggest

327
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 1: thing that he taught us is that you have to

328
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 1: work if you want anything, and he did most of

329
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 1: all of his life till you know, the latter parts

330
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 1: of his life. And then we've got the kind of

331
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: overweight and sick and then he just went downhill from there.

332
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 1: But to that point, he worked his whole life and

333
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: we did too, and and we still are actually a

334
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: little family. And the second thing he taught us was

335
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 1: to treat people the way you wanted to want to

336
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 1: be treated. And I didn't grow up where there was

337
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: a lot of racism or anything, but he he saw

338
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: a part of that. I don't know if it was

339
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 1: a young man or a kid or whatever it was.

340
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 1: In the bottom line, he says, you gotta be fair

341
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 1: with everybody. You can't be different. And how you approach people,

342
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 1: to talk to people, you treat them the way you

343
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 1: want to be treated. And I still do that to

344
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 1: this day, and all of my siblings do as well.

345
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 1: And the last thing he taught us was was to

346
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,200
Speaker 1: never quit. He says, if you start something, you're gonna

347
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 1: finish it, and that's just the way we were raised.

348
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 1: And aside from all of his other flaws, those three

349
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,719
Speaker 1: things still stay with me. So, like I said, he

350
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: was far from perfect at his flaws, just like I do.

351
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: And but those three things are are the key things

352
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: that I pointed out in my book with regards to leadership,

353
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 1: and they're still part of me to this day. You

354
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: describe him in the book as old school, and I

355
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: think you said you called him sir right up until

356
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 1: the day he passed away. Yeah. Absolutely, Man, he didn't

357
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 1: play one time. Going to when I was in elementary school,

358
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: I was like super miss misbehaving, super bad. And he

359
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 1: came in there, took off his belt, jerked me outside,

360
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: gave me a few lashings, which I'm I deserved, which

361
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 1: is something I would never do to my kid. And

362
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 1: I went back in the classroom red eyed, and and

363
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 1: I'm still crying and whimpering, and and yeah, he didn't play, man,

364
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: he was at way old school. And then you also

365
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 1: talked about how you were interested since you were a

366
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 1: little boy, you were interested in the military, and then

367
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: you know, acted out on those dreams. You know what

368
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 1: I think you said. Two days after you graduated high school,

369
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: you were in a car head into the army. And

370
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: I mean it sounded like, you know, as you described,

371
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: you had kind of, um, I don't know, in one way,

372
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: a very wholesome, you know, childhood, but in the other

373
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: way kind of sheltered. You said, there was the first

374
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: time you've ever seen an airplane. Yeah, we were pretty

375
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: poor so we didn't travel much and we didn't go

376
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 1: outside of our our circle of friends much. And I

377
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 1: was very sheltered in that way, Um, primarily because we

378
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: didn't have money to go anywhere to do anything. When

379
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: when you're really poor, everything you see is something you

380
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 1: can't have. And it was kind of it wasn't that bad,

381
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 1: but it was near that bad for us. So yeah,

382
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 1: just the first time going to the airplane was just

383
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: there was just so much new stuff. As as a kid,

384
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: when I joined the Army, and just like you said,

385
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: I graduated high school June one, June third, I was

386
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: on the airplane going to basic training. And I had

387
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: always been drawn to the military as a kid. I

388
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: loved the old army shows and anything that that was

389
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: army ish I was into. And I hopefully you know

390
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: early on there were a couple of reasons why I

391
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 1: wanted to leave. One was because there was no way

392
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: I was going to college, and um, we just didn't

393
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: have the funds. And and number two is I knew

394
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: if I stayed in my little hometown, I would just

395
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: find trouble. So and my decision was made easier. People

396
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: going into the service these days have a hard decision

397
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: because they may find themselves overseas in a combat zone.

398
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: And I didn't have to make that decision. I was

399
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: I was getting money for college, and I was wanting

400
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: to be the best soldier I could be. And that's

401
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: the furthest thing from my mind at that point. And

402
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you guys were uh young men

403
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: back then, but it was the furthest thing from everybody's

404
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: mind at that point was conflict. So it was easy

405
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, I mean this is before my time,

406
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: of course. Um, but you know, I remember actually one

407
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: of my first memories is watching the Goal for on

408
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: television on CNN, and I that was my first deployment,

409
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 1: uh into a comflex conflict zone. But I was far

410
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: from the conflict my first three years in the army was.

411
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: I was not an action guy. If you will, Yeah,

412
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: you're in a air defense unit, right, Yeah, And for um,

413
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: most of your listeners, I'm sure that that they all

414
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: know that the air defense was is essentially not a

415
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 1: branch anymore. I think the only things that are around

416
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: their defense wise the Patriots, which was a superstar of

417
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: the Desert Shield and Desert Storm. If you remember back

418
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: they were shooting down the scud missiles and stuff. What

419
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 1: a great system. But I think the only systems there

420
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: are the Patriots and and the Stingers and the Avengers

421
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: of the man portable stuff and the mobile the vehicle

422
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: mounted stuff. So I guess from there we talked about

423
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: your ambition to become a ranger. Like that. It sounded

424
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,239
Speaker 1: like that was something that you always wanted to do

425
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: and that you dreamed of. You know, that you were

426
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: learning how to be a soldier in air defense, but

427
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: really you had something bigger in mind. Yeah, it was.

428
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 1: It was when I first joined the Army, I thought,

429
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: you know, I was going to be a paratrooper jumping

430
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: out of airplanes and I was going to be like

431
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: the guys in the Longest Day and fighting on the war.

432
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: And because my job description when I enlisted was, like

433
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: think was air Defense, Artillery Operations and intelligence assistant. And

434
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: then I was I was going to airborne school, so

435
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 1: I thought, hey, yeah, this is it. Little did I

436
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: realized I'd be jumping out of the airplane with a

437
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: typewriter instead of a rifle. And but my first three years,

438
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: during a half years in the Army, um, we're a

439
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: struggle for me because I do. All I wanted to

440
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: do was be the best soldier I could be and

441
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: be around sold other soldiers who wanted to be like me.

442
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: And as you all know, that's hit and miss in

443
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: the military, and most of the soldiers around me at

444
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: that point in time just wanted to do their thing

445
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: and then be done with it. I poured my heart

446
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: and soul into what I was doing, and I had

447
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: an issue with people who are around me that weren't

448
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: like me. And during my first three and a half

449
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: years in the Army, I learned of the Rangers, and

450
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, that's that's my goal. That's

451
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: where I want to go. That's where I'm going to be,

452
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: And and I put my head down and push forward

453
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: and eventually got there. One thing I was kind of

454
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: blown away from our blown away by was when you

455
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: got to uh, well they call it RASP now, but

456
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: back in the day, you know what I went through.

457
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: You went through is called the Ranger Indoctrination Program. When

458
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: you went you said you couldn't swim, you have to

459
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: take a combat survival test, but you literally showed up

460
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: being unable to swim. Yeah, I I it was sheer

461
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: heart and desire because I had no skill to survive

462
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: in the water, and I'm just beating brutal. Be honest

463
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: with you is it was my passion to be a ranger,

464
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: and I was, to be honest with you to that

465
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: point in my life and even up to probably selection

466
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: and post selection, that that was the biggest hurdle in

467
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: my life. And it seems simple for people who can swim,

468
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: and they look at me and made me listen and say,

469
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: what is he talking about? Well, the reality is I

470
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: was thinking to the bottom, and I plod and kicked

471
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: my way and I never quit, just like my dad

472
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: taught us. And I got to the end and it

473
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: took me about four times longer than the lowest, the

474
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: slowest swimmer around me. And I grew up in New

475
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: Mexico to where I mean, and you know, like you said,

476
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: you had a you know, a kind of a poor upbringing. Uh.

477
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: You didn't have a lot of opportunities. I mean, there

478
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: weren't like exactly ocean sides and swimming pools. Uh. You

479
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: know that you grew up around right right. And I

480
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: think a part of it was when I was in

481
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: So Nordo, Mexico. We we would run around the villages

482
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: all day long without parental supervision. And one particular time

483
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: we um we were with the village kids and we

484
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: ran to a canal and there was it was a

485
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: large canal, was probably fifteen or twenty ft wide, and

486
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: it was probably ten ft deep, and there was a

487
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: water pipe going across it, and all the older boys

488
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: from the village would climb on the water pipe and

489
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: then jump into the canal. Well, I did that too,

490
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 1: but I couldn't swim, and I sank to the bottom

491
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: and I can remember looking up through the water and

492
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: it was just like in the movies. It went last

493
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: and I basically drowned, and one of the village boys

494
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: saved my life. I still I don't know the guy's name,

495
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: and um he I felt pain on the top of

496
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: my head and the next thing I know is I'm

497
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: coming to on the side of the canal and all

498
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 1: the boys are looking at me like what's going on,

499
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: And they were speaking in Spanish saying he jerked out.

500
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: He basically grabbed the top of my hair and dragged

501
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: me out of the water and saved my life where

502
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: I would have been dead. That's got to be a

503
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: crazy thing to reflect on because when you think about it,

504
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: it's like your story and all these great stories you

505
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: tell from there and your military career, it could have

506
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: ended right there, right yeah. And not a whole lot

507
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: of people know about that. I didn't tell my mom too.

508
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: I was a man that that happened because I was

509
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: because as a kid, I didn't want to get whooped

510
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: when I got home, you know by my my dad. Well,

511
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: like you said, I mean running around doing crazy stuff

512
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: that the kids. You know, you pushed through it because

513
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: you had a passion for you for your job, you know,

514
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: and put your heart into it. And um, and you

515
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: also talked about, you know in the book, your your

516
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: ranger buddy helping you learn how to swim and getting

517
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: you ready for that event. Right yeah, I tell you

518
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 1: what I learned so much in that short amount of time. Um.

519
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: And the biggest influence at that time was my und

520
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: your buddy, Michael J. A. Box and where we stay

521
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 1: in contact to this day. And and what was unique

522
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: about Mike and I. We were ranger buddies in the

523
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: Ranger in Doctor Nation program and then we went to

524
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: pre ranger together because he was in the same boat

525
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: that I was. We went to Ranger school together got

526
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: a sign to the same team, which is incredible. Yeah,

527
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: so we were ranging buddies through the entire process. I

528
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: don't know how that happened, but we saw everything together

529
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: and he helped me more probably than I helped him

530
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: through all of that, all of those challenges, and I'll

531
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: never forget my super cool and um. And then the

532
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: other thing I want to ask you about, because this

533
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: is a little bit unique by comparison to most rangers,

534
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: was that you were what we would. We were called

535
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 1: you know, a quote unquote import um, which are as

536
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: you write about in the book are not always viewed

537
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: favorably because for people who aren't aware in the range

538
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: of regiment. Most guys um are raised in the regiment,

539
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: so to speak. You come in from basic training, you

540
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: go to Airborne in school, you go to RIP, and

541
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: then you end up in Ranger Battalion if you graduate

542
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: and uh Rob you know, as we talked about, served

543
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: an Air defense unit, reclassed his infantry, went to RIP,

544
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: so he was a uh and then you went to

545
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: ranger school too, so you were a tab speck for

546
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: a coming to ranger battalion. You want to talk about,

547
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, you had as far as gaining the respect

548
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: of your peer group, you know, kind of the odds

549
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: were stacked against you. It felt like, Yeah, And just

550
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: to kind of preface my statements, here's I got to

551
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: the Ranger Regiment and in ninety two I was to

552
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: find a second battalion, Alpha Company, second Tune, black Sheet,

553
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: and there was no conflict. So it was we were

554
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: essentially a band of warriors looking for a fight and

555
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: we were trying to you know, people were held in

556
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: high regard in that unit who were physically fit, um,

557
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: mentally tough and kind of knew their job very well.

558
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: So I come in there, I'm physically fit. They don't

559
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: know anything about my mental status or or anything else

560
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: about me. And I had no experience none. I was

561
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: pushing paper for three and a half years and then

562
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to go be a Ranger. So I wasn't

563
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: view favorably. And also the fact that when you grow

564
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: up in the Ranger, in the range of community, um,

565
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: you basically you earned your way to be a leader there.

566
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: And being a range of private, I would say today

567
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: and even more so, you know, when I got there

568
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: in the early nineties, there's life as a range of

569
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: private was it was hard. I don't want to test

570
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: or anything, but it's health. It is living living hell.

571
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: And I never experienced any of that. I never lived it.

572
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: I never lived through that. And it took me, you know,

573
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: four months, five months for for everybody around me to

574
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: realize that that I was a leader of character and

575
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: I had the ability. And I think what they all

576
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: wanted to see was the fact that I wasn't going

577
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: to quit them or or fall short of being a

578
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: good ranger. And once they realized that, they opened their

579
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,959
Speaker 1: arms to me. And and the boy, tell you what,

580
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: it was the best time in my life to that

581
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: point in my career and my life just to be

582
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: serving there because I was where I wanted to be

583
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: around the people that I wanted to be. They they

584
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: were all just like me, and I loved it. You

585
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: found what you were looking for in the regiment absolutely right.

586
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: And I grew up so much. I became a man,

587
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: if you will. And all of my tactical background and

588
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: knowledge and and everything I learned in the Ranger Regiment.

589
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: What what a wonderful, wonderful place. And the friends that

590
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: I have there are still friends with me to this day.

591
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: And the best friends that that I will ever have. Yeah,

592
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: what what a wonderful part of my life. I love

593
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: the is difficult and that part of the the reason

594
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: why I loved it was the struggle right and nothing

595
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,399
Speaker 1: was given to me and because of that, I had

596
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: to fight for what I wanted and that really made

597
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: my character shine through. And it wasn't perfect. I didn't

598
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: learn everything right away. It took some time, and eventually

599
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: I became the leader that I wanted to be there,

600
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: the type of person that I wanted to be at

601
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: my time. There's a lot of responsibility put on you

602
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: as well as a young man and range of battalion. Yeah,

603
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: and it was and not so much um uh personal buys,

604
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: I was. It was just me. But I really took

605
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: to heart the fact that all of the guys in

606
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: my squad and when I was a team leader, all

607
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: the guys of my team, I was responsible for and

608
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: I did not um view that lightly. I took you know,

609
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: that to heart and the fact that I wanted to

610
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: take care of the guys and to be quite honest

611
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: with you, that's what made me want to be a

612
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: better a better leader, and a better soldier. Uh, a

613
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: well rounded person and soldier if you will. As they

614
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: used to say back then, you got to be technically

615
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: and tactically proficient. And but I get my best to

616
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: be that. Do you want to talk a little bit

617
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: about what it was like in Ranger Battalion back in

618
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: those days? You said you were like a tribe of

619
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: warriors looking for a fight, and um, I imagine a

620
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: lot of training exercises, um, getting ready, trying to imagine

621
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: what the next conflict was going to look like. Yeah,

622
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: And and and that's a good point too, because to bring

623
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: up primarily because the US military were we focus on

624
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: the last fight that we've had. So in the early

625
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: nineties and the Ranger Regiment, the last fight that we

626
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: had was Vietnam, and you know before that, those those

627
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: Grenada and then Panama and that was all sort of

628
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: tactics wise, the same sort of thing. So in in

629
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: the early nineties when I got to the Ranger Regiment,

630
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: we did a lot of patrolling in the woods, and

631
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: so we would prepper dear come Monday, jump in Monday night,

632
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: walk around, um doing ambushes and patrol of patrol bases

633
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: and rage and so forth, and then walk twenty miles

634
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: in Thursday night clean weapons until the blueing comes off

635
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: on Friday and then get get the weekend off right.

636
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: So we did that a lot. And I tell you what,

637
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: I learned a lot about myself back then because it

638
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: was tough. It was. It really made you a hardened warrior.

639
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: Do do that. I'm not saying that going around and

640
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: and and training specifically for an urban fight isn't tough.

641
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: But when you're walking around the Pacific Northwest absolutely soaked

642
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: to the bone thirty degrees out and you have your

643
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: poncho liner and the first sergeant hasn't given you permission

644
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: to put your cortex on yet, so you're just suffering there,

645
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: it makes you a hard, hard soldier. And I attribute

646
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: my success in selection to my time in the Ranger Regiment,

647
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: specifically when Um at the time, Lieutenant Colonel Um good

648
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: Um what was his name he was at Jason Commander McCrystal. Yes,

649
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: I can't believe, sorry, um, retired General McCrystal for forgetting

650
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: your name. I typically don't. But he was a huge

651
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: influence in the Range of Battalion at the time, and

652
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: specifically for myself when I was in in the Ranger Regiment,

653
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: and because he instituted a battalion wide policy that UM,

654
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: each Ranger rifle squad had to road march a minimum.

655
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: I think it was like twelve or fourteen miles a week.

656
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: And then so as a squad leader, I said, the

657
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: botanic commander says, we're gonna work twelve miles, gets how

658
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: far we're working walking fifteen and then next week we're

659
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 1: walking eighteen. And you know how it is, right, Yeah,

660
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: of course the standard. So because of that, you know,

661
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: we were just hard, hard Rangers back then, and and

662
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: it made me mentally tough and physically strong, just like

663
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: the Rangers are today. I'm curious about, you know, from

664
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: someone who has an inside perspective on McCrystal, because from

665
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: what you read and from interviews, he's done like he

666
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: is such a strict and and really just out there

667
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: UM regimen. When it comes to sleeping, eating, training, Um,

668
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: it's it's just like the amount of hours he sleeps tonight.

669
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: I think he said something like four or five hours. Right,

670
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: It's like it's really out there, right, Yeah, it was.

671
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: I was super fortunate to to have i think the

672
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: closer relationship with at the time to Lieutendant Colonel McCrystal,

673
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: and then later of news that Jason commander because um,

674
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: when he was the battalion commander, I was the U

675
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: seventy seventy five Ranger Regiment and CEO of the year.

676
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: So I think because of that he knew of me.

677
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: The most squad leaders in the Ranger Battalion aren't known

678
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: by the battalion commander where I think that's what helped

679
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: him command remember me. And I can remember being deployed

680
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: in Iraq and linking up with him. He wanted to

681
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: talk with me, and he said, go go to my hoop.

682
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: I'll be there in about fifteen or twenty minutes. I

683
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: have this meeting, and he just wanted to talk to

684
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 1: me about some stuff we were going overseas in Iraq.

685
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: And so I go to his hooch and his hooch

686
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: looks like mine, and here he is, that j Saw commander.

687
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: He's sleeping on a makeshift caught very minimal support that

688
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: He's got a little lamp and some books next to

689
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: his bed, nothing fancy. I was like, Wow, this is

690
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: a man of character. He's living just like that, just

691
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: like I am, which is somewhat unheard of, you know,

692
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: in the military ranks. And he's a three star general

693
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: at that time, and I was like, Okay, this guy

694
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: is the same person that I knew in the Ranger

695
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: Regiment when he was our county commander, because we loved him.

696
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: Everybody loved him, and even as a Jason commander, everybody

697
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 1: loved him. I guess that's just like stay hungry mentality

698
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: of that you're you're going to keep living that way

699
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: and not you know, get too pampered to uh, you know,

700
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: to break out of your old way as in old habits. Yeah,

701
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: I think that he's always been that way, and I

702
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: think a part of him was just take if he's

703
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: asking his people to do something, he wants to do

704
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: it just like them or to the best of his ability.

705
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: And it really hit home when I when I was

706
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,359
Speaker 1: talking to him and we were just sitting there by

707
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: his bunk and nothing special, I was like, Wow, this

708
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: guy and his questions to me were insightful and he

709
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: was just trying to get my perspective, which meant a

710
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: lot to me at the time. I'm just that lonely.

711
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: I think that was in the seven or in the

712
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: eight at the time, but he still remembered me because

713
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: he was I was one of his soldiers when he

714
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: was a Batalian commander in the second Battalion. What a

715
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: great man. I have nothing negative and all positive things

716
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: to say about General McCrystal Robert. What then took you

717
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: on your path um to the unit you started? You know,

718
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: you're a ranger. You were quite accomplished. UM. I think

719
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: you said in the book that you became a squad leader.

720
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: And what made you decide that this was the next

721
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: step for your career? That's a great question. So what

722
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: what happened to me was, Um, I had served almost

723
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: three and a half years in the range of regiment.

724
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: I had earned a respect of everybody around me. In

725
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: my company alone. You could ask anybody there and they

726
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: knew of me, and and I was held in high regard.

727
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: I think looking back at it, Um, and even the

728
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: come been the commander and our first sergeant at the

729
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: time new me and would rely on me for a lot.

730
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: And so I got a little bit cocky. I was like, Hey,

731
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. I was just a young guy, right,

732
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: I had three years old, and I have all this

733
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: respect by everybody around me. And we get an influx

734
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: of leadership in my platoon and and they're basically telling

735
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,919
Speaker 1: me what to do when when I had been there

736
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 1: and earned my way, and I'm like, hey, things are changing,

737
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: and and I was like, okay, the tune leader and

738
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 1: the tune sergeant are trying to make me do things

739
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: a different than what I want to do. It I'm leaving.

740
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: I was just a young punk looking back at it, right, um,

741
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: so I realized, okay, I'm I'm just being upset. I'm

742
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: gonna go Special Forces. I'm going to do something else. Well,

743
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: at that point in time, Special Missions Unit recruiter came

744
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: to the second Battalion and it was must have been

745
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: divine intervention because this was I was right there, ready

746
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: to do something, and they came in. I took detests,

747
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: all the psycho bals and everything, and I was accepted

748
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: to go to selection. It wasn't it wasn't necessarily a

749
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: goal at that point in time. I think the timing

750
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: was just right for me and for me professionally at

751
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: the time end personally, I was just like, Okay, this

752
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: is it, this is my shot. I'm gonna I'm gonna

753
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: go for it. And I did. Was selection, you know

754
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: a challenge for you? Was it? Even you know, as

755
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: a young in Shape Ranger. Was it kind of a

756
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: kick in the pants? It was, and um, but it

757
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: was really weird too because I didn't know a thing

758
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 1: about the selection at all. I didn't really think I

759
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: I and I really didn't. I didn't want to know anything.

760
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: I had heard some stories, but I just I didn't know.

761
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: So all I knew was the packet that they gave me,

762
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, this is going to be

763
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 1: a a monumental task. And so what I had envisioned

764
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: or prepared myself mentally for was worse in my head

765
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: than what actually selection was, so that I was expecting

766
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 1: a lot not just not I'm not saying that selection

767
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't hard, it was, but what I had created

768
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: in my mind was was was tougher. So I was like, okay,

769
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: not like I said that, the selection was a kick

770
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: in the pants for sure, and I have some scars

771
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: on my feet to prove that. But mentally I was

772
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: prepared for a lot worse. And and I think that

773
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: you have to be that way, um, in order to

774
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: be successful. I think if you were to ask any

775
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: everybody who's been successful or not successful but they attended selection,

776
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: they will probably tell you the same thing that mentally

777
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: they had prepared for for the absolute worst. And that's

778
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,919
Speaker 1: exactly where I was many at the time. Well, it's

779
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: just tough, man. It's interesting you say that, Rob, because

780
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: you just must have a well, I think, like you

781
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: already talked about before, you had an incredible passion for

782
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: what you were doing. But a lot of guys end

783
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: up quitting selection various um you know, soft selection courses

784
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: because they do what you did, and they build the

785
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: course up to be something much much more difficult, and uh,

786
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: in their mind, it becomes unattainable, right And and to

787
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: be quite honest with you, when I got to to

788
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: the to the selection, there's about a hundred of us there,

789
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: and and these guys were legendary, like all the majority

790
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: of the rangers there, even those that weren't in second

791
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: Italian I knew of because these guys were best ranger

792
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: competitors who had won and they're at least finished, so

793
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: they were legends in the ranger regiment themselves. And I

794
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: get there and I'm like, holy cow, these are my

795
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 1: peerss are the guys that I'm that are here with me.

796
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, this is it, man, you know.

797
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: I think part of my upbringing helped me push through

798
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: that because I didn't quit. You can't quit, you know,

799
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: and it's just a part of who I am. And

800
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: I think that helped me in selection. When you got

801
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: selected and you know, made it through the initial operators training,

802
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: what was it like when you got to your first team?

803
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: It was great? It was great. You know when I

804
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: when I graduated or there's no ceremony or anything, but

805
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: when you finished the training course and you get assigned

806
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 1: to to your first team and they tell you where

807
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 1: you're going. We come back as a class and I'm

808
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: talking to my teammates and we're literally in ten minutes

809
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: going to link up with their teams. Um. I talked

810
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: to one of my buddies and I say, hey, are

811
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: you are you excited or how do you feel? He's like, hey, yeah,

812
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: I want to go. And I said I I said,

813
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: I feel excited too. But I hope I'm good enough

814
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: to be assigned to a team because I held these

815
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: guys in such high regard, right, I don't want to

816
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: be the wink link week link on them. And my

817
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: buddies like, dude, you just go and do your best.

818
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: That's all you can do, and with a profound statement,

819
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 1: he stepped me before I went to to my team,

820
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's all I can do, and

821
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: that's all you can ask of anybody in this life

822
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: is do your best. So I got there and I

823
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: it was what I had imagined, and even more was awesome.

824
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: It was great, so cool. You talked about some of

825
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: those early lessons learned UM. Actually, I think the point

826
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: I'm at in the book is when you were talking

827
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: about how you can describe why this happened or how

828
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: it happened. But you were a junior leader, relatively junior

829
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 1: UM team member, and it was like they assigned you

830
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: to plan and execute an entire training mission. Yeah, so

831
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: that what a great learning experience that was for me

832
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: at the time. Was so difficult, but it was great

833
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: for me. So sporadically during the year they would get

834
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: what they called it, I can't remember the exact wording,

835
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: but what they would do is they would get all

836
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: the junior guys on all the teams together and they

837
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: would make them leaders. And so all the team members

838
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: around me that were junior near my peer class were

839
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: like almost brand new guys on this particular training um mission,

840
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,479
Speaker 1: we were the leaders, and you know, our leaders guided

841
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: us a little bit, but they basically let us plan

842
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: and execute. So when we get into the briefing room,

843
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: UM I walk in there and I realized, Wow, everybody's

844
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: junior to me. I'm the most senior guy of all

845
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: the junior guys, if that makes any sense. And they

846
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: look at me and they say, you're in charge. They

847
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: threw to the under the bus man and like, all right,

848
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: I got it. So I was like I was in

849
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: charge of the whole thing, and and not just the

850
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: whole thing, but even for my team at the time.

851
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: And boy, what what a learning experience that was, and

852
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: just the just dealing with with everybody. And that was

853
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: the first time that I had the stand up in

854
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: front of everybody in my unit and talk professionally. And wow,

855
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: just looking back at it, I have the same feelings

856
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: the head back and then it was it was great.

857
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: It was. It was quite an experience for me and

858
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: then helped me grow become a better soldier and the

859
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: better leader without a doubt. Before we move on to

860
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, everything that happened after nine eleven were there's

861
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: some other memorable moments, some important things in your career

862
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 1: um that you can talk about in as far as

863
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: you know what you're able to talk about. When I

864
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: first got to to my to this unit, all of

865
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: the team leaders at the time, we're eleven years in

866
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: the unit and and in the same um, many of

867
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 1: them still in the same team. So when they asked

868
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: me to become a team leader, I only had four

869
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: and a half years in the unit, and I was

870
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, what, what's what's going on here?

871
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: There can me? I'm a very junior guy with regards

872
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: to my peers at that point in time, So I

873
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: had to I had to come to some sort of

874
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: reasoning on whether or not I would accept this this

875
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 1: leadership position. And the bottom line as it came down

876
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: to me realizing that one, yes, I was capable of

877
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: being a leader in the in the organization, and two

878
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: it was time to man up. And because I had

879
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: held my leaders in such to such a high standard,

880
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: it was time for me too soldier up and say

881
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: now I'm going to do what I expected my leaders

882
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: to be and do when I was below them. So

883
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: that there was a huge event for me becoming a

884
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: leader in the organization. So I had i had to

885
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: take all my lessons learned. And I think to this

886
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 1: point in my career, when I was in the Ranger

887
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: Regiment and the early years in the organization, I had

888
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: kept a notebook of running things that my leaders did

889
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: great and and my leaders didn't do great, And and

890
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: I took my notebook out and said, here's how I'm

891
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: going to do. Here's the path I'm going based on

892
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: what I've seen in my life, and I'm gonna take

893
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: what my father and my parents gave me and what

894
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: I've learned from my other leaders and pushed forward and

895
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: try to be the best that I could do. Must

896
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: have been incredible. And so you rose up through the

897
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: ranks of the unit. Um, did you find it that

898
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: it was sort of the same situation in range of

899
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: battalion in as far as your training and waiting for

900
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: the outbreak of war? Or you know, did they keep

901
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: you guys pretty busy? Oh? They kept us super super busy.

902
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: So what I you know, like I said, the U. S.

903
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: Military is I was fighting the last war we had

904
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: just been in. And when I got to to the unit,

905
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: there was the Battle of Mogadishue. Reproach is hanging over

906
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: the organization at the time, and so that's where we

907
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: were at mentally and tactics wise and everything, and huge

908
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: lessons learned, lessons learned during that battle, and so that's

909
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: where we're at, and we stayed too for super Busy.

910
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 1: Just a couple of things that I'd like to say

911
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: is is um just to cover um. When when I

912
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: was going through the training course, there there was a

913
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: point and I can't put my finger on it, but

914
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: at some point it was like a light switch went

915
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 1: off in my brain. Um And I'll describe that here

916
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: in just a second. So up until that point when

917
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: the light switch was off, I always felt like I

918
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: had to ask permission to do something, even as a

919
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: squad leader in the Ranger Resument. As an example, I

920
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: know the right thing to do is X, but I

921
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,919
Speaker 1: still wouldn't do it because I didn't have permission. When

922
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: the lights witch went on for me. When I was

923
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: in the training course, I can remember the inspectors telling us, hey,

924
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: we we don't I just want you to do the

925
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: right thing. We expect you to do it without guidance,

926
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: and that was liberating to me. It was just I

927
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: just could not believe that they were giving me this

928
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: the autonomy to to do what is right, regardless of

929
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: what it is. And not only that they're giving me

930
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: the authority to do this, but they expected me to

931
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: do it. What a and nowhere else have I been

932
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: I've been working with the law enforcement community and the

933
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,959
Speaker 1: military since my retirement in two thousand and nine. There's

934
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: no other organization that that actually functions that way or

935
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: to be caught out a stupe possibly can't function that

936
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 1: way because there must be oversight. Where in this organization

937
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: it was the oversight is given to you. You know,

938
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: you can hang yourself or you can do the right thing.

939
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 1: It's up to you. You do the right thing that

940
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: they trusted you to do your job. Yes, and it

941
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: was so liberating to me. It was. I loved the

942
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: organization because of that. The culture there was just an

943
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: incredible and you were still serving in the unit when happened. Yeah,

944
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: I was a team leader at the time when when

945
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: September eleventh happened, and and yeah, what what a horrible

946
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: type period for for Americans. Um and then for those

947
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: of us that were in the military at the time,

948
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, kicked off the war and no one had

949
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: any um true fighting experience for a prolonged conflict like this,

950
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: And and I was one of them when I was

951
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: a leader. And for all the listeners out there, you know,

952
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: whether in a law enforcement or the military or civilian

953
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: and the job, what have you. I think most people

954
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: were like me at the time. You know, looking forward,

955
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: I have no a true combat experience. Some small things

956
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: here and there, but let it to the magnitude of

957
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: full on conflict. So we question our ability in time

958
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: of crisis. And that was no different was in the

959
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: back of my head, is that will I do the

960
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: right thing when the rubber meets the road and chaos

961
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: is around me and bad things are happening to get people,

962
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 1: will I do the right thing? And I think people

963
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: in our community and people who who never served in

964
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: the military, you just need to understand that one. If

965
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: you have good character, you will do the right thing.

966
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 1: If you have good training, good realistic training, you will

967
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: do the right thing. If you have trust in the

968
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: people around you, you will do the right thing. If

969
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: you have those three things, you will do the right thing.

970
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: And it rang true for me. Can you tell us

971
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 1: at all about what it was like for you? And

972
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: the rubber did meet the asphalt yeah, I think, Um,

973
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 1: it was. It was. It was odd because, um, just

974
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: to put everything into perspective, when I deployed to Afghanistan

975
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: in late two thousand one, Um, so we were so

976
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: new to the war. We didn't have maps, like we

977
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: didn't have maps of the of the area, We didn't

978
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,959
Speaker 1: have a lot of the supporting mechanism. There are very

979
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: few helicopters in the country, so and we were spread

980
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: out throughout the country. And I was about an hour

981
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 1: away from from Kabul, which is, you know, a sixty

982
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: minute flight just to get help if anything happens. So, um,

983
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: we we're in essentially bad guy country with a very

984
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 1: small number of people. And the rubber hit hit the asphalt,

985
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 1: if you will. And we in our little team, we

986
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: got one of our fellow team members is killed. This

987
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: was twenty four hours after inserting to coast. So we

988
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: lose a fellow soldier, and we get a number of

989
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: other individuals killed in a handful of Backgen um uh

990
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: Afghani's killed and ninjured as well during our initial conflict

991
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: and or during the initial engagement. And I'm the leader

992
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: on the ground, I've never had to deal with anything

993
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: like this, And essentially the war slapped me smack in

994
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: the face and I had to realize real quick, but

995
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: what what my character was. And like I said, I

996
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: had the right people around me, I had the proper training,

997
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: and my character drove what I wanted to do at

998
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: that point in time, and it was the right thing.

999
00:57:53,440 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was truly truly um wild country because

1000
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: I could have done anything I wanted to do. I

1001
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: could have said, let's get out of here, we're going

1002
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: We're going back, um picabo. I could have said, we're

1003
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 1: gonna stay here and send me as many people as

1004
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: you can whatever. Because no one it was so early

1005
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: in the war, there were no rules. There really were

1006
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 1: no rules. I could I was a leader on the ground.

1007
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: I could have done anything I wanted to. We stayed

1008
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: put and continued with our mission. After after getting beat

1009
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: up pretty good there on our first day on the ground.

1010
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: That's incredible. And how long was that? The that initial

1011
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: deployment then in in two thousand one, Okay, so I

1012
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: I got I got there in December and we didn't leave. Obviously,

1013
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: after that, the military started their rotations into Afghanistan's and

1014
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: the Special Operation community did to the range of regiment

1015
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: and everybody else. Um, so I came. I came home

1016
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 1: for two weeks in May, and then deployed right back

1017
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: because our rotation, my unit came forward. I was separate

1018
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: from my unit when I initially went in. There was

1019
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,439
Speaker 1: just a handful of us while my unit was still

1020
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: back in the States. I deployed, and then when they

1021
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: started their rotations they came in in May I think.

1022
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: I went home for two weeks and came back and

1023
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: served with them until July or August there, I think,

1024
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: and then the rotation started and hasn't stopped and still going.

1025
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 1: That's incredible. And uh and then a few years later

1026
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: a rat kicks off yep, and you guys started rotations

1027
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 1: there as well. May We sure did, Yeah, I was.

1028
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: We were part of the initial invasion force as well,

1029
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: and so we did a piece of a train up

1030
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: for that before before the actual invasion here state side.

1031
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: And then um, during the invasion. We think we spent

1032
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: about the two months um during the initial invasion and

1033
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: got relieved and we started our rotations in the Iraq

1034
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: over the weekend. Yeah, crazy, I wanted to bring up

1035
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 1: um because I see that you had written about it before. UM,

1036
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, the summer of two thousand and five, Um,

1037
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 1: that you write about a little and you know, I

1038
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 1: was in Iraq in the summer of two thousand five,

1039
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,919
Speaker 1: So I mean, I know what you're talking about when

1040
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: you say how how busy it was at that time,

1041
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: and you know your unit. You know there are two

1042
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: men lost, Sergeant Oregon and Sergeant McNulty. And I was

1043
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: wondering if you were willing to tell us a little

1044
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 1: bit about your teammates and um, you know the sacrifice

1045
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: that they made. Yes, So in in two thousand and five,

1046
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 1: on June one, and we last Steve Um. That was

1047
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: the catalysts were changed for us. And I was a

1048
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 1: leader on the ground at the time, so those of

1049
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: us on the ground realized, we've got to We've got

1050
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: to change, and specifically on tactics because what we were

1051
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: doing wasn't working. And we realized that just by the

1052
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: sheer numbers of of UM guys that were getting hurt.

1053
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: And then and then on June one, we really really

1054
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: got chewed up. Steve died and then Mike was down hard.

1055
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: I lost two team leaders that not lost, but guys

1056
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: got injured to the point where they had to leave

1057
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: the battlefield, and I had a handful of other guys

1058
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 1: that were suffering gunshot wounds either through the leg or

1059
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: or hand grenade wounds. Bottom line is, we got chewed

1060
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: up really, really bad. And that was the first time

1061
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: that we had seen anything like this as an organization

1062
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: since probably the Battle of Mogadishu. And so for those

1063
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 1: of us on the ground, it was pretty simple. We

1064
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: we needed to change tactics in order to continue to

1065
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: press the fight because in its simplest and for me

1066
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: um as the leader, I couldn't keep doing the same

1067
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: thing because I'm losing too many people. But on a

1068
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: personal side and a professional side, we I'm doing the

1069
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: disservice to the people around me if I keep doing

1070
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: the same thing and expecting different results. You know, that's

1071
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: Einstein's definition of insanity, you know, doing the same thing

1072
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: and expecting different results. It didn't happen. So I basically said, okay,

1073
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 1: we're changing stuff, and luckily for me at the time,

1074
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: my junior leader supported me and that that was the

1075
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 1: catalyst for change within the organization as it relates to tactics,

1076
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: and even more so, it's just the philosophy on on

1077
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: fighting and because in as you well know, in our community,

1078
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: no one wants to be viewed as being risk averse

1079
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: or being a coward. So I had to change that

1080
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: a little bit, the philosophy within the people in the

1081
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: organization to where we're not being cowards or we're not

1082
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 1: being risk averse, We're just being smarter. And you just

1083
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: have to ask yourself is this worth it? And I'll

1084
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: tell you it's not. And so that was the biggest

1085
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: thing for me at that point when when Steve died,

1086
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 1: I said, it's not going to be in vain. We're

1087
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 1: gonna make some changes, dog on it. And for the

1088
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: people who were underneath me that didn't want to change,

1089
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 1: I shoved it down their throats because I knew was

1090
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. This was I mean, I

1091
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: thank you for that, Rob, And I think this is

1092
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 1: really uh what you're talking about. What you're referring to

1093
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: is a moment where we were evolving tactically and trying

1094
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 1: to evolve into turning combat into an operational art. Yes.

1095
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: And and unfortunately for a lot of us, even myself included,

1096
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: and those of us uh UM that were in everybody

1097
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: that was there on June one and Steve died was

1098
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: also there on June seventeenth, and Mike and Bob died,

1099
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: and and we knew what's the right thing to do,

1100
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: and we had just had to be smarter and not

1101
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: just put our helmets down and push forward and accept

1102
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: their lips because that's what the way it is. We said, no,

1103
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 1: we got to be smarter man, and we took it

1104
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: to the next level. And then with with our tactics,

1105
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: and to this day, I'm sure these guys are the

1106
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: tactics are continually evolving. I would imagine that's uh. You know,

1107
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: something that I think I really benefited from, you know,

1108
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: serving in the Range of Regiment and then Special Forces,

1109
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 1: was that your unit did so much to innovate tactics,

1110
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: and that stuff eventually bled down to other units. You know,

1111
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 1: my my platoon and Range of Battalion was trained by

1112
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: uh an operator on you know, I think some of

1113
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 1: the tactical techniques that you're referring to, and I mean

1114
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: we weren't a tremendous amount from those guys. Yeah, and

1115
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 1: and and that's a byproduct of being in the organization

1116
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: as if we try to share as much of that.

1117
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: And it was only one of the hardest things I

1118
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: had to do on right after our after action review

1119
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: when we lost Steve. The team members went went to

1120
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: their team rooms and we're doing their thing. I stayed

1121
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: up and and basically created a power point after action

1122
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: review and sent it to the entire command so that

1123
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 1: they could I could share those lessons um with everybody

1124
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: that was on the battlefield, and I even the guys

1125
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: back home. We're getting our situation reports and so forth.

1126
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: And my intent was to, hey, here's our mistakes, here's

1127
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: what we I think we did mong and here's what

1128
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: we'd like to try to do to fix it sort of.

1129
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: And yeah, and then and all of that led down

1130
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,919
Speaker 1: into the range of regiment and even to this day.

1131
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: I just did a training evolution um UM as part

1132
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: of Evergreen Mountain my business with First Special Forces Group,

1133
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: just last month. And the tactics that they're running are

1134
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 1: a byproduct of what happened to us in two thousand

1135
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 1: and five. And they're running, you know, changed tactics to where, um,

1136
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: they make more sense and it's smarter and in the

1137
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: bottom line is Zo, You're absolutely right, all of that

1138
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: needs to be shared in order for it to be

1139
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: beneficial and for it to be the right thing to do.

1140
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: What were some other changes that you saw in the force? Um,

1141
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 1: because you were there for quite a while, you said,

1142
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: you're retired in two thousand nine. What what were some

1143
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: of the other things you saw change or evolved during

1144
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: that time frame. This the biggest thing that I saw

1145
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: was the biggest change that I saw specifically in my

1146
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:45,960
Speaker 1: unit was a change in mindset and and changes and culture. Well,

1147
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: and that wasn't the equipment, wasn't all the new was

1148
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: banged news outpo stuff that wasn't the pants or whatever right,

1149
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 1: And for me, it was just a change of culture.

1150
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 1: If my set philosophy are related to to war, conducting

1151
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: warfare against the men, because up en to this point

1152
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: and conflict, or specifically two thousand and five, we did

1153
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 1: we conducted, we fought one night, one way and that

1154
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: was it. And after two thousand and five as an

1155
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 1: organization which shipped into realize that we have to do

1156
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 1: it makes sense, not what we practice all the time,

1157
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: and not that practice isn't isn't good. You have to change.

1158
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 1: But the reality is, up until that point we had

1159
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: done our business one way. We realized we can't do it.

1160
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: Stepte h change and adapt to what's happened to come

1161
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: around to make smart disease as opposed to just putting

1162
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 1: your helmets down. So for me personally, that was the

1163
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: biggest change that I saw. Was was in the unit.

1164
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: Was the change in culture and mindset and philosophy because

1165
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: it applies to conflict. Um. I think that the next

1166
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: biggest change I saw was in the U S Military

1167
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: because all of the senior leaders that they when in

1168
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 1: September eleven first started, all the battalion commanders, all the

1169
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 1: experience that they had were just life fire iterations and

1170
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 1: training in the US. Well, eventually those platoon leaders who

1171
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: serve time in and units ground units in two thousand

1172
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 1: and two and two thousand and three and two thousand

1173
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 1: and four now their company commanders, battalion commanders and two

1174
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: thousand nine, two ten, And that's where the huge changes

1175
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: at right or before the lieutenant colonel of thettalnant commanders

1176
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: for gade commanders didn't have ground level experienced fighting. Well,

1177
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: now we do, which is huge because now those those

1178
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 1: leaders who are for gate commanders of these commanders were

1179
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 1: actually fighting as lieutenants in the warrant here, whether they

1180
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: were in Iraq or Afghanistan. You can't replace that experience

1181
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 1: as a leader as you move up. But now they

1182
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: have some perspective um to draw from as they move up,

1183
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: and that has changed the military for the better. Do

1184
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 1: you have any concerns about operational stress, be it on

1185
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,520
Speaker 1: you know, special operations units or even on the military

1186
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 1: as a whole that you know, we've been deploying guys

1187
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 1: over and over again. Um, that the force is just

1188
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:33,200
Speaker 1: getting strained over time. Absolutely, man, I mean it's we're

1189
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 1: all human. We're all human. Is just because you're assigned

1190
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: to one unit or another doesn't mean that you all right.

1191
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 1: You show up, here's some magic dust that doesn't grow

1192
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 1: on here, and then um, you're just just changed person.

1193
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: You know. It's you get there and you train and

1194
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: you get the proper mindset, so it's time. Right. But

1195
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: it's we're all human as well, and everybody has a

1196
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 1: breaking point, whether we wanted to believe it or not.

1197
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 1: And and and absolutely I have some concern I think

1198
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: that the army is, the military overall, should do a

1199
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: better job of informing these in soldiers coming in of

1200
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:13,040
Speaker 1: the stresses of the realities of their profession. We do

1201
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 1: as the military is doing a great, great job of

1202
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: screening for PPSD cars two. Departing from the Moody, we

1203
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 1: need to do the better job of informing people of

1204
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 1: the realities of their of their profession before they signed

1205
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 1: the paper to come into or to give up a

1206
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: chance to let them know what the reality is. That

1207
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: kind of set the stage and let them know, because

1208
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: that's something I never had to deal with the night

1209
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:39,759
Speaker 1: when I joined. And I don't know if the processes

1210
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: or not, but the reality is it definitely there is

1211
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,599
Speaker 1: an impact. And there's individuals who joined the army and

1212
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 1: two thousand and two and have been deploying since two

1213
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 1: thousand and two, so for eighteen years. All these soldiers know,

1214
01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, however many years I've been in its conflict. Yeah,

1215
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:06,840
Speaker 1: you can't tell me those guys are stressed and how

1216
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 1: they are not stressed? I'm sorry? And how do you

1217
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 1: return to you know, normal life after all that, after

1218
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: you've been deployed, you know, fifteen times, eighteen times or whatever? Um?

1219
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: Was it difficult for you when you know, when you

1220
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 1: decided to retire in two thousand nine. I think the

1221
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 1: difficulty of just separating myself from from who who I

1222
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 1: was was the hardest thing because that was my personal

1223
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:38,560
Speaker 1: professional identity and I didn't know anything else. I was

1224
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 1: immersed in in in that culture, and I was um

1225
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 1: just like I did in the minds of residences. You know,

1226
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:47,679
Speaker 1: I poured my heart and soul into what I was doing,

1227
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: and then now it's time to leave. I think that

1228
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: was the difficult part. It wasn't for me personally. It

1229
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: wasn't having to deal with the with any other issues.

1230
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: Is this the reality of me not being who I

1231
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 1: was either personally and professionally. Looking back at it, now,

1232
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 1: I come to terms with it, but I still I

1233
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:09,519
Speaker 1: still dream about it. Just two nights ago I was

1234
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: I had a dream that I was back there. There's

1235
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:14,120
Speaker 1: no way I could hang with those guys these days.

1236
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,400
Speaker 1: Had I can dream about it? Right, How long do

1237
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: you think it took you to to you know, you

1238
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 1: use the term you know. You say you came to

1239
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 1: terms with it, and I think I did the same.

1240
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: But it took years for like my brain readjust absolutely,

1241
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: it took me at least two and a half or

1242
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 1: three years, and the first year was the most difficult,

1243
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 1: and just this gnawing inside of me. I would at

1244
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: least once a day one, just want to pick up

1245
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 1: the phone and asked to come back, and and and

1246
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 1: then the next year was a little bit easier, and

1247
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 1: the next year was just a little bit easier, and

1248
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: then eventually got to the point to where Okay, I

1249
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:56,679
Speaker 1: can do this. I can be a different person now.

1250
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 1: Um And and yeah, like with everything, the test of

1251
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:04,680
Speaker 1: time rang true for me with regards to that. It

1252
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,800
Speaker 1: just took some time. What have you done on the

1253
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: outside to you know now that you're out to build

1254
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: a life for yourself. Yeah. So I've been retired almost

1255
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,600
Speaker 1: ten years now and it seems like this yesterday, But

1256
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 1: I started my own business and um, so it's a

1257
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 1: training company. We do a lot of training for the

1258
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:29,200
Speaker 1: law enforcement community. Uh. And we do everything that that

1259
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 1: the job require. Google to work with police officers doing

1260
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 1: active shooter stuff, we do. We work with schools doing

1261
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:41,679
Speaker 1: active shooters stuff. We work with tactical teams doing spot training,

1262
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:45,760
Speaker 1: whether it's shooting tactics, running the ballistic shield, which is

1263
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 1: something that I've I've pushed and you know something that

1264
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 1: I've learned over the years with regards to the law

1265
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: enforcement community. I have a ton of experience fighting overseas.

1266
01:13:57,479 --> 01:13:59,600
Speaker 1: UM and I don't have a lot of experience or

1267
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 1: no variants actually being a police officer in the States.

1268
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,759
Speaker 1: So when I initially started my training company, I would

1269
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: just regurgitate the tactics and the mindset in the philosophy

1270
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 1: and everything that I had overseas and trained the police

1271
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,680
Speaker 1: officers that were attending my training courses. It's not the

1272
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 1: right thing to do, and it took me a couple

1273
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 1: of years to realize and what when it came to

1274
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,639
Speaker 1: a head I had. I have a very good working

1275
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 1: relationship with the indian and Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department, their

1276
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 1: SWAT team, and I've been working with them since every year,

1277
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 1: at least a couple of times three or four years,

1278
01:14:38,520 --> 01:14:41,919
Speaker 1: three or four times a year since probably two thousand

1279
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:47,120
Speaker 1: and ten or two thousand and eleven, and they were

1280
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 1: they adopted my tactics and on one of their warrant services,

1281
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 1: they got shot up at the breach point and I

1282
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: was like, I was scarned um because these guys trusted

1283
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 1: me and giving him this information and it's not helping him.

1284
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: I said, Okay, I need to start learning again. I

1285
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,880
Speaker 1: can't be the teacher because when I'm teaching them isn't working,

1286
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:16,960
Speaker 1: so I have to learn. So I started learning more

1287
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 1: about their jobs, their lifestyle, you know, and their equipment

1288
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 1: and so forth. Said, Okay, here's what I'm gonna do.

1289
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:27,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go learn about the ballistic shield because I

1290
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: think that would have helped them when they got shot up.

1291
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 1: And the only reason why none of them got killed

1292
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,559
Speaker 1: is they were lucky. There's no skill in dodging bullets, right,

1293
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 1: so they got several of them got got shot in

1294
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 1: the arm and non lethal impacts. But the reality was

1295
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,759
Speaker 1: that they were they were just lucky. So I started

1296
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 1: learning again. Man. I took a couple of ballistic shield

1297
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: courses from some good friend of police officer friend of mine,

1298
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, this is it. I'm incorporating

1299
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: the ballistic shield and into what I teach for tack

1300
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 1: to cool teams, which is I'm sure I'm the only

1301
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 1: unit member out there that does that, but I firmly

1302
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 1: believe that that's one piece of equipment that they have

1303
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 1: at their disposal, which we do not overseas, and I

1304
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 1: would like to change that overseas too, I think. And

1305
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't solve all our problems overseas, but when it

1306
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:23,240
Speaker 1: makes sense, it can be used well. So so that's

1307
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:25,599
Speaker 1: where I'm at right now. Um the Lions share. If

1308
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:28,720
Speaker 1: my work is for the law enforcement community, am I

1309
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:30,439
Speaker 1: still do some work? Like I said, I worked with

1310
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 1: first Group last month and doing some other stuff here

1311
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 1: for the Army um next month, and but those those

1312
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: are few and far between. I have a good falling

1313
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 1: in a law in person little right now, which is

1314
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:44,479
Speaker 1: something I'd like to change because I'd like I'd love

1315
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: to work with the military. And where where is evergreens

1316
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 1: home base? I am. I live in New Mexico, but

1317
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: I have a I have access to a training facility

1318
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:03,639
Speaker 1: just outside south of Colorado Springs. We have everything there

1319
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:08,719
Speaker 1: that we can run driving high speed um off road

1320
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: stuff but I do. We can do medical classes, I

1321
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: could do obviously, ranges and shoot houses and stuff seems stuff,

1322
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 1: but pretty much the full gamut there in this facility

1323
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: just about the Colorado Springs. Very cool because I I wonder,

1324
01:17:23,439 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, with our audience, there's we have so many

1325
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 1: people on who do tactical training courses out of different

1326
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 1: areas of the country, and people in our audience, whether

1327
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 1: they're civilians or former military or into that type of thing.

1328
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 1: So I figure, um, if someone wants to take a

1329
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: class from a guy with a really excellent background like yours,

1330
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: be really cool to check out. So it's Evergreen Mountain

1331
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:49,360
Speaker 1: USA dot com. And I assume you work with civilians

1332
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 1: as well, it's not just law enforcement, right absolutely, And um,

1333
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 1: what I do is I just screened the civilians because

1334
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: I don't want what I teach to get into the

1335
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 1: wrong hands, as I think everybody, all of your listeners

1336
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: will understand. So um, yeah, I just do make sure

1337
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: you're a US citizen and you're not part of a

1338
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 1: hate group or a terrorist. And and then yeah, I

1339
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 1: work with civilians. I'm actually doing a civilian course in

1340
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 1: Illinois here in August. So cool. So once again, check

1341
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: out Evergreen Mountain USA dot com. And then also, you know,

1342
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:29,640
Speaker 1: we covered a lot of the book, which is a

1343
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 1: Warrior's Path lessons in leadership. But if if you'd like

1344
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,920
Speaker 1: to shamelessly plug anything else in the book and why

1345
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 1: you think people need to pick it up, I'll give

1346
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:45,639
Speaker 1: you the floor. Yeah, it's just a true and honest

1347
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 1: account of pretty much my failures. But the reality is

1348
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:53,680
Speaker 1: I as I learned more from my failures than I

1349
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:57,720
Speaker 1: did from my successes. And for for those of your

1350
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:01,479
Speaker 1: listeners that know me, you know I'm a very humble guy.

1351
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:04,439
Speaker 1: I don't pound my chest, but the reality is, and

1352
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 1: then I've come to realize over the years that I've

1353
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 1: experienced a whole lot, even amongst the special operations soldiers,

1354
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot, and and all those hard lessons

1355
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,599
Speaker 1: that I learned that the hard way, if you will,

1356
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 1: are in my book and is not UM professionally published.

1357
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:27,680
Speaker 1: I published it myself, so it's pretty raw in my

1358
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,720
Speaker 1: in the writing style and so forth, and it's very

1359
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 1: well done. Rob. If you ever want to challenge your

1360
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 1: marriage or your relationship with your significant other, have him

1361
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:47,240
Speaker 1: or her UM review your book and edit it. Well.

1362
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:50,040
Speaker 1: I tell you what, my wife I had a really

1363
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,959
Speaker 1: good part the police officer friend of mine, Nick Cocott,

1364
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: and his his mom Baba Cocott, the Cocott families that

1365
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:01,719
Speaker 1: just wonderful of mind. And he did the initial cut

1366
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: or the review of my book, which sets my book

1367
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 1: in the right direction. And then my wife leave a

1368
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: lover to death. But boy, it was it was difficult

1369
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 1: when she says, you've got to get rid of these

1370
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:16,840
Speaker 1: thirty pages, and like what on now. She says, it's repetitive.

1371
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:19,679
Speaker 1: You gotta and yeah there were there were some pretty

1372
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,360
Speaker 1: good knock throwdowns and yellings and screamings at each other

1373
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 1: just a byproduct of my book. But it's not it's

1374
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 1: not professionally published or edited, so it's written the way

1375
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 1: I speak and want to share my message, so it's

1376
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 1: better readd I thank you very much, and um leave

1377
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 1: some feedback for me on Amazon. Amazon dot com is

1378
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: the big elephant in the room as it relates to

1379
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: books and authors and so forth, so any positive reviews

1380
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:51,080
Speaker 1: from me is huge. The book, you know, as you say,

1381
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 1: it's like written from Rob's perspective, in his own words,

1382
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 1: if you're just like sit down and listen to him,

1383
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 1: just like you listening to this podcast. And I actually

1384
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:01,800
Speaker 1: think the book is better for that, Rob, that it's

1385
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 1: written by you, with your close friends and your wife

1386
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 1: editing it. That it doesn't feel um, I don't know,

1387
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: like homogenized or over edited. You know, you know, it

1388
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:13,600
Speaker 1: really feels like you're getting the real deal when you

1389
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:16,679
Speaker 1: read the book, and it's a very like real candid story.

1390
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I love it so far and I'm definitely

1391
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 1: gonna finish reading it soon. Thanks for doing it. I

1392
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for coming on the podcast, Drab.

1393
01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: Like I said in the beginning, like it was way

1394
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 1: way too long before we jumped on the ball and

1395
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,400
Speaker 1: got her act together and got you on the podcast.

1396
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I really appreciate and this has been really

1397
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 1: a great interview at least I think it is. I

1398
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:44,639
Speaker 1: hope you feel the same way. So long with us. Yeah,

1399
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:48,160
Speaker 1: I I appreciate it more than you guys know. And

1400
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:52,679
Speaker 1: just to get my message out and you know, plug

1401
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:55,880
Speaker 1: in my business for small businesses, just so you guys

1402
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:57,720
Speaker 1: know that. I'm sure you guys know already that this

1403
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:00,600
Speaker 1: can be huge for me. So and to all the

1404
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,639
Speaker 1: listeners out there, thanks for for what you all do.

1405
01:22:04,560 --> 01:22:08,840
Speaker 1: Whether you're law enforcement guy, police officer, whether you're in

1406
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 1: the military, thank you for your service. And for those

1407
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 1: of you that aren't, um, just be a good American

1408
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:19,639
Speaker 1: and that's service enough to your country and to your

1409
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,760
Speaker 1: fellow American next to you is just be good to them,

1410
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: and be good too to your family. And that's all

1411
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:29,160
Speaker 1: we can ask of each other. Well, sat and well,

1412
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 1: we'll link to everything on the article, and uh, we

1413
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,160
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Maybe we'll speak again soon. And I think

1414
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 1: we covered a lot here and really enjoyed hearing your show.

1415
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:40,240
Speaker 1: If you ever want to come back on Rob or

1416
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:42,280
Speaker 1: if there's anything else we can do for you, please

1417
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: don't hesitate to reach out. Yeah. Absolutely, I'd love to

1418
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:49,759
Speaker 1: get on with with my my main man, George Hand

1419
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: at some point. Yeah's the best is Yeah, that would

1420
01:22:56,240 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 1: be super cool. Actually, yeah, I just I just saw

1421
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 1: him last month and he was he's struggling physically. I

1422
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:07,800
Speaker 1: didn't realize how bad that was with him or for him,

1423
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:11,200
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, George. He's a fighter, though,

1424
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: is like he's I'm like, George, you're you're bad at

1425
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:19,519
Speaker 1: the phone man, You're because I cannot believe this, how

1426
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:24,759
Speaker 1: how bad his situation was. A night last November, I said, eight, George,

1427
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 1: come on over to the house for Thanksgiving because he's

1428
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 1: just a few hours south of me. And he's like,

1429
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,599
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm in the hospital. Like what, Yeah, we

1430
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,559
Speaker 1: were in the hospital. We were all really worried about him.

1431
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:37,720
Speaker 1: He we you know, came close to losing George at

1432
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 1: one point, you know, and uh, you know, I was

1433
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: talking to his daughter about it and we were very concerned,

1434
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 1: but like you said, I mean he's a tough dude.

1435
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, man, that you dude's tough. I'm happy. I'm

1436
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,000
Speaker 1: happy I got to see him and definitely stay in

1437
01:23:53,040 --> 01:23:54,599
Speaker 1: touch with him. But I'd love to come back and

1438
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 1: get the talk with you guys in George and maybe

1439
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,599
Speaker 1: um get us align in one location. I'm willing to travel. Yeah,

1440
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 1: if you can come to New York anytime, that'd be excellent.

1441
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,639
Speaker 1: Right on, man, Yeah, we'll figure something out, figure it out.

1442
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 1: I appreciate the opportunity to both of you. And again,

1443
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 1: from the bottom of my heart, I thank you, and

1444
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:22,479
Speaker 1: there's anything that I can do for you, please just

1445
01:24:22,520 --> 01:24:25,120
Speaker 1: reach out and let me know. All right, Well, thank you, Rob,

1446
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:28,960
Speaker 1: have a good one. Okay, we'll talk again soon. Already,

1447
01:24:29,080 --> 01:24:32,640
Speaker 1: take care, all right, great having Rob tra Vino on.

1448
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:37,080
Speaker 1: Pick up the book A Warrior's Path Lessons in Leadership.

1449
01:24:37,360 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 1: If you're looking to take any type of tactical training courses,

1450
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 1: he is your man if you're in that area. So

1451
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 1: it's Evergreen Mountain USA dot com. Yeah, you won't be

1452
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,760
Speaker 1: disappointed by that book. I mean it has it's kind

1453
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:53,680
Speaker 1: of Rob's life story, um, in a sense disguised as

1454
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 1: a leadership book, but there are you know, he tells

1455
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,720
Speaker 1: his story and he gives like real world practical examples

1456
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 1: of like this is the leadership lessons I learned from

1457
01:25:03,080 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 1: this experience or from this person. Um, but I mean

1458
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 1: beyond so it does serve its purpose as a leadership book.

1459
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 1: But I mean, I just on a personal level, it's

1460
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:15,639
Speaker 1: a damn good story. Yeah, you know, it's a great

1461
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,920
Speaker 1: book and talking about his upbringing and his his early

1462
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 1: years in the military. Just it's that just a classic,

1463
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:27,639
Speaker 1: um perfect military book. Honestly. Yeah, I know, Nick Coughman

1464
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:30,559
Speaker 1: spoke really highly of it, and there's some excerpts of

1465
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,840
Speaker 1: it up at softwarep dot com. So check it out

1466
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: as always, visit us on Twitter and Instagram, follow us

1467
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 1: at SOFTWAREP Radio, lever review on Apple Podcasts, and uh.

1468
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:46,759
Speaker 1: Next episode we will cover uh social justice warrior woke

1469
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 1: vets before yeah before before I totally scare people off,

1470
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:55,800
Speaker 1: Like I'm people have asked me to cover this stuff

1471
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:58,280
Speaker 1: for a while and I always turned it down because

1472
01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:00,679
Speaker 1: I think it's like low hanging fruit. You know, it's

1473
01:26:00,720 --> 01:26:03,960
Speaker 1: not really my thing. But we're gonna go in it.

1474
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:05,880
Speaker 1: It's not going to be a rant like we're gonna

1475
01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 1: go into some really specific Oh yeah, she'll be on

1476
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 1: the look after that. That will be up on Friday.

1477
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:26,680
Speaker 1: You've been listening to self Rep Radio. New episodes up

1478
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 1: every Wednesday and Friday for all of the great content

1479
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:33,479
Speaker 1: from our veteran journalists. Join us and become a team

1480
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 1: room member today at soft rep dot com. Follow the

1481
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:41,240
Speaker 1: show on Instagram and Twitter at self rep Radio, and

1482
01:26:41,360 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 1: be sure to also check out the Power of Thought

1483
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: podcast hosted by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seal Sniper

1484
01:26:49,160 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 1: instructor Brandon Webb, using New York