1
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never Told You from how Stuff

2
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:14,080
Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

3
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,080
Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. And today's boy of Summer is

4
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 1: John Rock, who we could call the father of the

5
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 1: birth control pill, or maybe like co father control pill.

6
00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,639
Speaker 1: He's like he's co parenting the pill. Yes, yes, But

7
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 1: before we get into who John Rock is, because y'all

8
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,160
Speaker 1: he has a pretty fascinating bio he does. Uh, let's

9
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:45,360
Speaker 1: start out with a question about the pill. And it

10
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 1: was something that I hadn't really thought too much about

11
00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 1: before studying up on John Rock. And the question is

12
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,080
Speaker 1: why do women on the pill still get a period,

13
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,280
Speaker 1: which is called withdrawal bleeding? Mm hmm, Yeah, I wondered

14
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: this too, and over at go ask Alice from Columbia. Uh,

15
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 1: they talk about how it was sort of designed as

16
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 1: a way to make the pill more acceptable back in

17
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,320
Speaker 1: the mid twentieth century, because honestly, having a period on

18
00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 1: the pill serves absolutely no purpose. Yeah, there is zero

19
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:27,320
Speaker 1: biological purpose to having a period. But the developers of

20
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,319
Speaker 1: the first birth control pill in it, John Rock and

21
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: George Pinkas, specifically designed the pill to mimic a woman's

22
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,039
Speaker 1: twenty eight day menstrual cycle in the hopes of making

23
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 1: it more palatable not just for the American public, but

24
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 1: specifically to the Catholic Church and the whole Catholic element

25
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: of this is one of the most fascinating aspects of

26
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 1: John Rock's legacy because not only was he a gynecologist

27
00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,560
Speaker 1: and co developer of the birth control pill, but he

28
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,760
Speaker 1: was so a devout Catholic. UM. A lot of bios

29
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 1: of him talk about how he had a crucifix that

30
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,240
Speaker 1: hung over his desk, he went to Mass every Monday. Um.

31
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:15,440
Speaker 1: And he became essentially the face of the you know,

32
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,080
Speaker 1: a Catholics argument in favor of birth control. And to

33
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,200
Speaker 1: just give you an idea as we get into information

34
00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,360
Speaker 1: about him, how important he was to the development of

35
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 1: this pill and be pushed to make it accepted. Um.

36
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,120
Speaker 1: In the biography The Fertility Doctor John Rock and the

37
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,639
Speaker 1: Reproductive Revolution by Margaret marsh and Wandern, Are they right

38
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 1: knowingly or not Rock subverted conventional sexual attitudes in the

39
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 1: name of perpetuating conventional family values. Yeah, because Rock wasn't

40
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,000
Speaker 1: any kind of political radical, right, He wasn't revolutionary, and

41
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,400
Speaker 1: he definitely thought that the fight surrounding the birth control

42
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,520
Speaker 1: pill was getting to be too feminist. But he was

43
00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,799
Speaker 1: so instrumental in getting birth control pills on the market

44
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 1: because his partner, Gregory Pinkus, was the biochemist who did

45
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,160
Speaker 1: a lot of the scientific leg work. He really figured

46
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,080
Speaker 1: out that it was gonna be progester own to be

47
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,360
Speaker 1: the key hormone that could block ovulation. But Rock was

48
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,120
Speaker 1: so important to the process because it was Rock's name

49
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,760
Speaker 1: and his reputation. That quote gave ultimate validity to the

50
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,040
Speaker 1: claims of the pill would protect women against unwanted pregnancy.

51
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,680
Speaker 1: And that's coming from a biography of Rock by Lauretta McLaughlin.

52
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 1: So if that groundwork established, let's find out more about

53
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: who John Rock really was. Yeah, and a big part

54
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,839
Speaker 1: of why he is such a fascinating figure. I mean, yes,

55
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:44,960
Speaker 1: he played a large part in getting the birth control

56
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 1: pill on the market. You know, Yes, he advocated for

57
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,040
Speaker 1: healthy women, healthy birth, healthy families. But what's so fascinating

58
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 1: is the evolution is to watch him from the nineteen

59
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,480
Speaker 1: twenties all the way to the nineteen fifties and beyond

60
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 1: start to change his idea of what was important about

61
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,600
Speaker 1: the birth control pill or about contraceptives in general. Really,

62
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 1: So starting out in ninety John rock starts as director

63
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,200
Speaker 1: of the infertility clinic at the Free Hospital for Women

64
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 1: in Boston. So right off the bat, you're like, wait, infertility, right,

65
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,800
Speaker 1: he's treating women to help them actually be able to

66
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 1: have more children. And in nineteen thirty one you're thinking, okay, well,

67
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,000
Speaker 1: now maybe he's starting to get radical. We'll just hold on.

68
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 1: He signed a petition with fifteen other prominent Boston physicians

69
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,320
Speaker 1: urging the repeal of the Massachusetts law prohibiting the sale

70
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 1: of contraceptives. Now, he was the only and the first

71
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 1: Catholic to do so, and this was a big deal

72
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:46,719
Speaker 1: because oral contraceptives and the Catholic Church do not get along, right,

73
00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 1: And at this time, the time that he signed the petition,

74
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 1: he really only accepted the use of contraception for valid

75
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,320
Speaker 1: health and medical reasons, not as a tool for women's autonomy,

76
00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 1: although as we'll see, his views would evolve as years

77
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 1: went on. Now, even though the Catholic Church has never

78
00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 1: really been on board with oral contraceptives, they have been

79
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 1: on board officially with using the rhythm method as a

80
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 1: form of quote unquote natural birth control. And if you

81
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,719
Speaker 1: want more information on what the Rhythm method is. We've

82
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 1: done an entire podcast about it. But in nineteen thirty six,

83
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,320
Speaker 1: Rock opened up the Rhythm Clinic at that free hospital

84
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,240
Speaker 1: for women in Boston, which became the state's first free

85
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:35,120
Speaker 1: clinic for providing contraceptive advice. So as we move into

86
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,919
Speaker 1: the late thirties early forties, Rock is really earning his

87
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 1: reputation as a giant in the research field in gynecology,

88
00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,839
Speaker 1: and in nineteen forty four he and his colleague Miriam

89
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 1: Lincoln make headlines for the first successful in vitro fertilization

90
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 1: of a human of them And at the end of

91
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,440
Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, so moving forward a little more um,

92
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,160
Speaker 1: he's already at this time considered to be the as

93
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,920
Speaker 1: prominent infertility expert of his era. But in dealing with patients,

94
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: talking to women who are coming to him, he really

95
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 1: sympathized with those women who had too many children and

96
00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,760
Speaker 1: too little money. And the more he saw, the more

97
00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,279
Speaker 1: he really became convinced that every couple should be able

98
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,200
Speaker 1: to choose the number of children that they wanted. And

99
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,440
Speaker 1: this was a radical idea in Catholicism, because, I mean,

100
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,920
Speaker 1: the point is rocket really witnessed in his practice a

101
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 1: lot of suffering, collapsed wounds, premature aging, but also just

102
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,280
Speaker 1: the desperation of how do I provide for all of

103
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 1: these children? And with his issue of family planning kind

104
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 1: of rolling around in his mind. Gen Rock co wrote

105
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,520
Speaker 1: Voluntary Parenthood, which was a guide for the general reader

106
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,919
Speaker 1: on birth control methods in nineteen forty nine, and he

107
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,039
Speaker 1: talks a lot about how overpopulation was threatening world peace

108
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,159
Speaker 1: and stability, and he became an advocate at that time

109
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,919
Speaker 1: for population control, and in the meantime was backing away

110
00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,360
Speaker 1: from his earlier defense of a large family, and at

111
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,560
Speaker 1: the same time, he increasingly came to regard sexual expression

112
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:09,039
Speaker 1: within marriage as essential to health and happiness. Right, So

113
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 1: he's not arguing that a young woman or a woman

114
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,160
Speaker 1: before marriage should have access to birth control. He's saying

115
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 1: within marriage, within the confines of marriage, a family should

116
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 1: be able to make decisions about how many children they want.

117
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 1: And there was a nineteen seventy three article that I

118
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 1: found on Rock that interviewed his daughter and she was

119
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 1: talking about how she would get into arguments with him

120
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 1: because he initially did not want to prescribe birth control,

121
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 1: even to newly married couples, so there's still some you know,

122
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,880
Speaker 1: he's he's definitely not a super liberal guy. But speaking

123
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,640
Speaker 1: of super liberal people, Margaret Singer, who founded Planned Parenthood

124
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,760
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty one, enters the picture where she approaches

125
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 1: birth control pioneer Gregory Pinkis, who was an agricultural scientist

126
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,640
Speaker 1: turned biochemist with a small grant because she wanted him

127
00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 1: to start hormonal contraceptive research. So this very same year

128
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 1: that Margaret Sanger and Gregory pink Is kind of team up.

129
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,640
Speaker 1: Pope Pious the twelve says that the rhythm method is

130
00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:23,680
Speaker 1: an okay method of family planning for Catholics. So moving

131
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 1: forward to nineteen fifty two, Uh, Pinkas brings John Rock

132
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,600
Speaker 1: into the fold. And the thing is they'd admired each

133
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 1: other's work from AFAR for years, and Pinkas's work on

134
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,640
Speaker 1: animals and animal studies had actually inspired some of Rock's

135
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 1: earlier studies on fertilizing eggs in his own lab, and

136
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,120
Speaker 1: so to dodge the state's anti birth control law as

137
00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,280
Speaker 1: that we mentioned earlier, Pinkas and Rock tout their human

138
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 1: trials as a fertility studying, not as birth control. Yeah,

139
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,520
Speaker 1: this is going on in Massachusetts, and at the time,

140
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:02,600
Speaker 1: Massachusetts had some of the harshest laws against birth control

141
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,040
Speaker 1: and uh publicizing anything about birth control, so they had

142
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 1: to do a little bit of funagel ing. So based

143
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,600
Speaker 1: on the information they get from these human trials and

144
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 1: more development that goes on, uh in n s John

145
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,400
Speaker 1: Rock and Gregory pink Is finally settle on the drug

146
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:26,319
Speaker 1: maker sirles in Avid progester own formulation, so Inovid becomes

147
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,240
Speaker 1: the first brand of oral contraceptive that the FDA approves

148
00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 1: for women in the United States. But the thing is, though,

149
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,760
Speaker 1: before while it's going through the FDA trials again, due

150
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 1: to anti birth control laws, they had to conduct their

151
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,480
Speaker 1: human trials on inn of it in Puerto Rico, and

152
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 1: some critics have complained that the participants in Puerto Rico

153
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,920
Speaker 1: didn't provide informed consent with their signatures, but that was

154
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 1: not standard operating procedure at the time. And also, um,

155
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 1: you know, they point out that the women were informed

156
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,400
Speaker 1: of what can happen and there I don't think that

157
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,079
Speaker 1: there were a lot of negative side effects that were

158
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,959
Speaker 1: going on. And they had to do that because they

159
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,600
Speaker 1: legally couldn't do it within the Continental United States. So

160
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty seven, the f d A green lights

161
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,840
Speaker 1: the use of inovid, but not as a contraceptive right.

162
00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 1: It was for minstrreul disorders, and the medicine actually had

163
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 1: to carry a warning that it's suppressed ovulation, and so mysteriously,

164
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty sevent to about nineteen fifty nine, a

165
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 1: lot of women suddenly began to develop mysterious menstrual disorders,

166
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 1: and by nineteen sixty the FDA finally okays innovids contraceptive claims.

167
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 1: But meanwhile, though for John Rock, this wasn't the end

168
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,760
Speaker 1: of the battle. Sure, they developed innovid and they got

169
00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 1: the FDA approval and everything, but for him the battle

170
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,440
Speaker 1: was still with the Catholic Church. The pope had okay

171
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 1: the rhythm method, but they were waiting for a papal

172
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 1: verdict on oral contraception because he truly believed that the

173
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,880
Speaker 1: pill could solve birth control problems for Catholics, and he

174
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,280
Speaker 1: wasn't looking for a revolution and sexual behavior at all.

175
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 1: He was still like a very morally inclined kind of guy,

176
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,080
Speaker 1: but so so he wanted to take things a step further.

177
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,200
Speaker 1: So in nineteen sixty one, the drug maker gets the

178
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,439
Speaker 1: green light finally to market enovid as an oral contraceptive,

179
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 1: and this spurs other drugmakers to immediately get to work

180
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 1: on their own versions of oral contraceptives. So in nineteen

181
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,920
Speaker 1: sixty three, going back to John Rock, he you know,

182
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,959
Speaker 1: is doing the best that he can. He's putting all

183
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,120
Speaker 1: of his effort into convincing the church that birth control

184
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,440
Speaker 1: contraceptives are the way to go as far as family

185
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,960
Speaker 1: planning is concerned, and he publishes his book The Time

186
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,120
Speaker 1: Has Come, in which he makes the argument that the

187
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 1: pill is a way more precise method of following the

188
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,080
Speaker 1: rhythm method. It's natural, it has all of the same

189
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:14,040
Speaker 1: hormones already present in a woman's reproductive system. It's simply

190
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,760
Speaker 1: extends that safe period where you will not get pregnant,

191
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:24,080
Speaker 1: well will not, you know that, but the chances of

192
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,680
Speaker 1: getting pregnant are much lower. But that's the exact reason though,

193
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,280
Speaker 1: why that argument that hey, look, Catholic Church like everything

194
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,080
Speaker 1: is totally natural. It's totally fine. That's the exact reason why.

195
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,000
Speaker 1: From the get go, he and Pinks designed the pill

196
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,079
Speaker 1: to mimic that twenty eight day menstrual cycle, and as

197
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 1: a result of coming out as a Catholic doctor in

198
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 1: favor of birth control, having developed this birth control pill.

199
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,839
Speaker 1: Of course, he caught a ton of flag from some

200
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,439
Speaker 1: people in the Catholic community. For instance, Boston's archdiocese and

201
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 1: paper The Pilot warned Rock to quote watch his step

202
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 1: or else. Not only that, Monseigneur Francis W. Carney later

203
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 1: called him a quote unquote moral rapists. And there was

204
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,560
Speaker 1: even an anecdote in that nineteen seventy three newspaper article

205
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,320
Speaker 1: that I found about how two of Rock's kids were

206
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 1: getting a ride home from uh like a Catholic church

207
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,199
Speaker 1: member or something like, they had like common friends, and

208
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,319
Speaker 1: once the parents found out whose kids they were, they

209
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,000
Speaker 1: stopped the car and told the kids to get out. WHOA. Yeah,

210
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,439
Speaker 1: it was serious. Yeah, but I mean there were Catholics

211
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,760
Speaker 1: who agree with him, Unfortunately they were in the minority. Uh.

212
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,599
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty four, Father Louise Jansen's, who is the

213
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 1: professor of moral theology at the University of Louvaine, credited

214
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,120
Speaker 1: Rock's book with providing a way for the Catholic Church

215
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: to change its birth control policy. Like, here's a way

216
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,839
Speaker 1: to help Catholic families do the best they can, right,

217
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 1: But obviously all of the effort that John Rock put

218
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 1: into kind of trying to pave the way for the

219
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,800
Speaker 1: Vatican too. Okay, oral contraceptives was not enough, because in

220
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,280
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight Pope Paul the Fourth said nope to

221
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:14,640
Speaker 1: the pill. Yeah, rhythm method are nothing but stateside. On

222
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 1: a more positive note for birth control, in nineteen seventy two,

223
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,800
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court ruling Eisenstadt versus Barred, struck down the

224
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,560
Speaker 1: law prohibiting birth control sales to unmarried women because even

225
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,440
Speaker 1: though the f D a greenlit in Avid in nineteen

226
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,760
Speaker 1: fifty seven, it wasn't until the seventies that doctors could

227
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:42,720
Speaker 1: prescribe it to unmarried women. Well, so we mentioned rocks evolution,

228
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,480
Speaker 1: his evolution of thought, and how he certainly was no

229
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 1: feminist throughout the whole of his career and he didn't

230
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 1: promote the birth control pill as a way to liberate women,

231
00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 1: and some of his early thoughts on the subject are

232
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,200
Speaker 1: a little touchy. For instance, he said that nature intended

233
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 1: motherhood to be a woman's career and anything which diverts

234
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 1: her from her prime purpose is socially wrong. But the

235
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 1: thing is the partnership between him and Margaret Singer during

236
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 1: the development of the birth control pill, because that research

237
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:26,080
Speaker 1: was funded via Singer and the donor Katherine McCormick, who

238
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 1: funded really a lot of their research. Um was also

239
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 1: a relationship that evolved as well to where they started

240
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 1: out kind of on opposite sides of the table, and

241
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 1: then as John Rock moved in a little bit more

242
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,680
Speaker 1: towards the center, Sanger realized that, oh, you know what,

243
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 1: this guy is totally fine. His Catholicism is not actually

244
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 1: hindering his, you know, medical research into the birth control

245
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:58,400
Speaker 1: and actually, because he is almost so conflicted about it,

246
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,360
Speaker 1: there was a sincerity I think that came along with

247
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 1: it that made him such a prime spokesman for birth control. Yeah,

248
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,120
Speaker 1: I think you're exactly right. And he Rock also impressed

249
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 1: Singer with a nineteen speech in which he called for

250
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 1: massive increases for funding for research on reproduction and to

251
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 1: discover new contraceptives to stem population growth. And he actually

252
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 1: had a quote about, you know, if just like a

253
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 1: tenth of the funding that went towards developing a nuclear

254
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,480
Speaker 1: weapon went towards reproduction and contraceptives, then we would have

255
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 1: a great aid in preventing overpopulation in this world. And

256
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 1: over at New York University they have the Margaret Singer

257
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 1: Papers Project, and in one of the articles about the

258
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 1: relationship between Singer and John Rock and pink Is, they

259
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 1: talked about how uh Singer really grew to like Rock

260
00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,760
Speaker 1: on a personal level, because apparently Gregory pink Is, the biochemist,

261
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 1: was a little bit more of a loose canon, a

262
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: little bit more radical, a little bit pushier with the

263
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,000
Speaker 1: birth control agenda, whereas John Rock was just a bit

264
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,480
Speaker 1: more of a smooth operator and apparently incredibly handsome. At

265
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 1: one point she wrote to Martha Baard Rockefeller that Rock

266
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,639
Speaker 1: was quote as handsome as a god like easy Margaret Singer,

267
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,240
Speaker 1: and by nineteen sixty the Papers project talks about how

268
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,320
Speaker 1: she viewed John Rock's faith actually as an asset, and

269
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,480
Speaker 1: that he was a skillful negotiator with drug companies and

270
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,199
Speaker 1: that he had so much influence within the medical profession

271
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,000
Speaker 1: that it helped raise the profile of oral contraceptives and

272
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 1: inavid that first approved birth control pill. Right, I think

273
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 1: having somebody, as you know, solid and steady and respected

274
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 1: as John Rock promoting the birth control pill, despite his faith,

275
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 1: despite his background and upbringing, I think it gave it

276
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of support well, and they

277
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 1: also had to have a clinical doctor like Rock in

278
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 1: the birth control of search in order to conduct any

279
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 1: kind of human trial, because that was a requirement from

280
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: the FDA. George Pinkus, as more of a lab scientist,

281
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,400
Speaker 1: would not be able to on his own conduct any

282
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,280
Speaker 1: sort of human trial. So, I mean Rock was really

283
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,680
Speaker 1: kind of the center of of all of it, and

284
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,959
Speaker 1: in he passed away and left behind this, you know,

285
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 1: obviously like a huge but still I feel like it's

286
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: such a conflicted legacy. Right well, by the end of

287
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,000
Speaker 1: his life, he was just so over it. Not to

288
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 1: sound flip, but in his last interview, you know, he

289
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,399
Speaker 1: was like they asked him what the best part of

290
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 1: his life was, and he said right now, because he

291
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,800
Speaker 1: lived in this little, you know, forest cabin in New Hampshire,

292
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,640
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, I get to I get

293
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: to experience peace and quiet every day. And they asked

294
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 1: him about his faith and he was basically like, you know, yeah,

295
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 1: that's something I believed when I was younger. What, yeah,

296
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: I can imagine that, you know, with the kind of

297
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 1: pinnacle at the pinnacle of your career simultaneously being called

298
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 1: a moral rapist because that that phrase, the moral rapist

299
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 1: is something that was sited over and over again. It

300
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,040
Speaker 1: was a SoundBite that continued was like, ah, it's still

301
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: in the kind of you know, new cycles that we

302
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 1: have today. But you know, with that label being affixed

303
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 1: to you as well, I can imagine that maybe maybe

304
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,640
Speaker 1: birth control was a chapter that he Rock wanted firmly

305
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,639
Speaker 1: in the past. Yeah, it could be, but in you know,

306
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 1: in helping it evolve and enter the market. I mean

307
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,200
Speaker 1: he's he changed the world. Yeah, absolutely certainly changed women's lives.

308
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 1: So that's our Boys of Summer for this week. If

309
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 1: anyone would like to write into us, as usual, mom

310
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 1: Stuff at Discovery dot Com is where you can send

311
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,160
Speaker 1: your letters. You can also hit us up on Facebook

312
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: or tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast. And we've got

313
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: a couple of letters to read, which we'll get to

314
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: right after a quick break. And now back to our letters. Well,

315
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 1: I've got one here from SHAWNA. And she is a

316
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: PhD student and wrote into us in response to our

317
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: episode on whether female politicians are better for women, and

318
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,199
Speaker 1: she writes, I'm working on my doctorate in political science

319
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 1: and I love this episode on female politicians, as it

320
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,439
Speaker 1: completely sums up my research agenda. I had actually been

321
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: planning to request this topic, so thanks for reading my

322
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: mind and giving me an easy thirty minute overview of

323
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 1: what I studied to share with my mom. I thought

324
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: you did a great job of discussing the impact of

325
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 1: female politicians around the world and not just those in

326
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: the United States. I'm currently focusing on an under research

327
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: aspect of this topic, which is do female citizens participate

328
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: more in politics when there is a greater percentage of

329
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: female politicians in the legislature. So far, I found that

330
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 1: the presence of female politicians does not increase female political participation. Hopefully,

331
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: in the next few years I'll be able to explain

332
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: this phenomena and maybe it will make a good addition

333
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: to an update on female politicians. Thanks so much for

334
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: your awesome podcast, and thanks for your awesome research and insight.

335
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: It's an interesting correlation and I am curious to find

336
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 1: out what she digs up on that relationship. Yeah, so

337
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: keep us posted this letters from Hannah. She says, I

338
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: just listened to the Child Caretaker's podcast from last fall,

339
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 1: and I has a thought that it might be interesting

340
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: to do a podcast on disability and parenting, or on

341
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,439
Speaker 1: the effects on children of disabled parents. I've never been

342
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 1: a child caretaker, but my mother is legally blind, which

343
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 1: has led to other types of responsibilities being put on

344
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 1: me growing up to help her compensate for her impaired vision.

345
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: I never knew any other kids with disabled parents, so

346
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: I never really thought about myself as part of a

347
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: demographic growing up. But I'm very interested to know if

348
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: there is any research on this topic, such as if

349
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 1: disabled people are less likely to have kids, if kids

350
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: have disabled parents tend to have different strengths or issues,

351
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: and things like that. I have no idea if this

352
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: has been a topic of interest to researchers, or if

353
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,120
Speaker 1: support systems even exist. As I said, I never access them,

354
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: but I think it could be a great topic to explore.

355
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: So thank you for the suggestion, Hannah, and thank you

356
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: for sharing your story, and thanks to everybody who's written

357
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: into Mom's Stuff at Discovery dot com. Don't forget to

358
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: head over to Facebook's check us out over there and

359
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: mike us while you're at it. You can follow us

360
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Mom's Stuff podcast, and on tumbler stuff

361
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You Dot tumbler dot com, and don't

362
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: forget to watch us as well. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday

363
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 1: we come up with a new show on YouTube, so

364
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 1: head over to YouTube dot com slash stuff Mom Never

365
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 1: told You and subscribe for more on this and thousands

366
00:22:55,680 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: of other topics. Doesn't have stuff works dot com