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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I Heart Radio. So, Samantha,

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Speaker 1: as you know, we are in my favorite season. Yes,

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Speaker 1: of scary things, although the world is terrifying right now,

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Speaker 1: but you know you can find a haven in horror movies,

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Speaker 1: or at least I can that you can. I'm hoping. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And for today's question, I wanted to ask you, have

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Speaker 1: you ever played a scary video game? No? Never? Have

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Speaker 1: you ever been scared playing a video game? It wasn't scary. No,

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Speaker 1: you've never had an epic battle of Mario Kart and

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Speaker 1: felt just fear in your heart might be embarrassed? Not

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Speaker 1: at all, because I already have very low expectations. And

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Speaker 1: then I give a disclaimer to every one that I'm

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Speaker 1: playing with about how bad I am at video games

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Speaker 1: and or how I could care less about most of

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Speaker 1: these video games. Uh. You know, it took the pandemic

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Speaker 1: for me to actually start enjoying these things, as you know,

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Speaker 1: so because I just never cared. Of course, my partner

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Speaker 1: is really big into the video games, and he loves

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Speaker 1: like The Witcher and Zelda all of that, So to me,

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Speaker 1: that's not necessarily scary. I know you talked about your

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Speaker 1: scary video games, and I finally watched you guys play

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Speaker 1: a couple of them. But my over anticipation about how

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Speaker 1: things are going to go bad it's so high that I,

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Speaker 1: you know, I have to have warnings or I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: walk out because I just don't care. I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't want to know. Um. But yeah, no, I don't

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Speaker 1: typically play it like that. I don't play those games,

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Speaker 1: um because I don't quite understand them either. I think,

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Speaker 1: mm hmm, I just want my mechanic wise all of

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Speaker 1: those things. So what's the point of having a story

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Speaker 1: if you're trying to play a game but inevitably you're

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Speaker 1: just playing into their story which has already been written. Now,

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Speaker 1: So because you know, I asked you three times, it's like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what what is this? Wait? Why? I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of the question is why. But for like, yeah, for me,

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Speaker 1: like what I enjoy is silly games that we get

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Speaker 1: to punch each other in the face and see who wins. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in the story, very two dimensional characters too. Typically uh huh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well we clearly have like the very opposite taste because

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Speaker 1: the story to me is the most important thing, right,

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Speaker 1: the most important thing. And actually we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about one game that really messed with I guess the

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Speaker 1: video game Mechanics you're talking about where the story is

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Speaker 1: already written. There's one game we're gonna talk about in

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Speaker 1: here where they mess with that and it's wonderful. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love, love, love love scary video games. You did

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Speaker 1: get to see me play Virtual Reality, the VR version

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Speaker 1: of Five Nights at Freddie's, and that I may have

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Speaker 1: to post up. I may have because I took a

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Speaker 1: video and it's not even the best video, because the

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Speaker 1: best videos when you actually jump and fall backwards into

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Speaker 1: onto a chair. Um, but yeah, I definitely took a

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Speaker 1: video of you playing and would you just start screaming?

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Speaker 1: And by the way, it would be in in s

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Speaker 1: f W because there's a lot of cursing. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was terrified. Well, I put the headset on for like

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Speaker 1: a second, looked around. I was like nope, and I

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Speaker 1: took it right back off. This is true, And that

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Speaker 1: wasn't even the game. It's just like the opening screen. Well,

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Speaker 1: like I turned around, I was like, there's a thing

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Speaker 1: trying to come up behind me. Those are ANIMA Charlie

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Speaker 1: things which you know, I already have a little fee

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Speaker 1: that they're going to come to life, and in this

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Speaker 1: video game they come to life. And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: hell no, no, I'm good. Yeah no, it's that was fair.

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend it, both the non VR NBR versions

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Speaker 1: for anybody who's interested, because it was terrifying and they're

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Speaker 1: funny also. Um So today we're talking about women and

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Speaker 1: girls in the survival horror genre video games, which is

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Speaker 1: one of my very favorite genres. Um And I'm actually

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna put a disclaimer here that I'm gonna be

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Speaker 1: very selfish in this one because it is one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite genres, and I'm going to talk about the

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Speaker 1: ones I have personal experience with. So I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of you will probably get angry at some things

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Speaker 1: that are not on this list. Always right in, I'm

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Speaker 1: happy to play another survival horror video game. Um And

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Speaker 1: I we do have a list of honorable mentions that

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Speaker 1: I know people are gonna be like, well you didn't

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Speaker 1: talk about this clear example, but yeah, I'm gonna be

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Speaker 1: a little little selfish. Um And I also want to

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Speaker 1: put in another disclaimer. Anyone who's played these games will

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Speaker 1: know a lot of them come from very sprawling video

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Speaker 1: game franchises with storylines that are really tough to wrangle. Like,

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Speaker 1: I actually love this thought exercise of trying to explain

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Speaker 1: some of these games because they're so weird. They've been

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Speaker 1: ret cond Reson Evil Slash bio Hazard is the one

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Speaker 1: that has come to mind. Also Silent Hill, we oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: um where they're just complicated, and I'm again I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: kind of stick to what I know about them the

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Speaker 1: research I've done on them. But um Reson Evil, for example,

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Speaker 1: you can have one iteration of a female character that's

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Speaker 1: pretty well rounded and then another game she's like almost

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Speaker 1: completely different, wearing heels and so, so just to put

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Speaker 1: that out there. Also also want to put in here

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Speaker 1: a lot of disclaimers already that not every game or

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Speaker 1: character I mentioned is great when it comes to representation

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Speaker 1: and feminism. And I do think it's okay to enjoy

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Speaker 1: something that isn't actively causing harm, but always be mindful

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Speaker 1: of those messages in the entertainment that you consume. So

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Speaker 1: just just putting that out there as well. And quick

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Speaker 1: sugar warning because we are talking about the horror genre. Um,

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Speaker 1: we are going to briefly discuss some violence against women

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Speaker 1: and sexual assault issues, so put that out there, right,

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Speaker 1: And my contribution was very small, as you could have

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Speaker 1: already told. As you could already tell when we were

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Speaker 1: discussing whether or not I played these games. I know

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Speaker 1: that there are movie versions of these games, a lot

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Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, and I'm curious and we get to

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Speaker 1: some of them if you've seen them and what your

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Speaker 1: thoughts were. To be fair, I don't think I seen them.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's not because because I probably should watch like

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Speaker 1: at least Silent Hill, because that is seemingly up my alley.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like the only things I've seen available

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Speaker 1: are the sequels, and that is something I will not do.

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Speaker 1: Is I will not see a sequel over the original,

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Speaker 1: which you and i've had discussions of. I'm appalled by

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Speaker 1: some of your viewing. Uh yeah, yep, Samantha is very

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Speaker 1: angry at me right now. But yeah, so kind of

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Speaker 1: that's the problem and I probably should go back to it.

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Speaker 1: But us also, I don't have a big love for

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Speaker 1: these games, so I will put that. It's like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I

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Speaker 1: will join the discussion as much as I can. So,

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Speaker 1: as you know, we've talked a lot about how women

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Speaker 1: love horror. I love horror, just not video gaming, so

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Speaker 1: it's kind of one or the other, um for me.

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Speaker 1: But I'm getting into it, y'all. I am getting into it.

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Speaker 1: And yet you know that there has been a traditional

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Speaker 1: lack of representation of women in the genre, and apparently

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Speaker 1: in video games are large So I do see a

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Speaker 1: lot of them, and that you tell me about them,

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Speaker 1: I feel like. So therefore I notice those more than

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Speaker 1: I do anything else, and I probably know more about

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Speaker 1: those games I feel like than others. So that's I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've one up in that tradition. But of course,

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Speaker 1: and I did get to do and this this it

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Speaker 1: gets even worse when it comes to women of color

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Speaker 1: and queer women, which seems to be a new focus

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Speaker 1: when it's not just queer baiting to see them as

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Speaker 1: actually thoughtful characters. Right, And for anyone who's listening is like,

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Speaker 1: like Samantha, oh, I've never played these video games. I

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Speaker 1: won't be able to relate to this conversation. If you

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Speaker 1: you'll recognize these tropes like they're not even in just horror,

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Speaker 1: So um, never fear. Uh. Yes, when we try our

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Speaker 1: best to make our video game nerdery episodes inclusive. Um.

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Speaker 1: So when women do show up in these games, they

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Speaker 1: are almost always one of two characters. In Survival Heart

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Speaker 1: if they're a playable protagonist, meaning you a person plays them. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're strong, smart, capable, although often provocatively dressed and not

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Speaker 1: dressed for these situations that they're in, or if they're

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Speaker 1: not that they're the damsel in distress that serves to

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Speaker 1: to lead the male character story and also probably provocatively

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Speaker 1: dressed a plot and set peace to up the tension

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Speaker 1: and nothing more. Male protagonists and non playable actors are

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Speaker 1: almost always capable and also very rarely provocatively dressed. I'm

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Speaker 1: always I'm always stocked by how somehow during the apocalyptic moments,

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Speaker 1: women end up being able to have a few perfectly

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Speaker 1: cut uh billy shorts. Oh yeah, that was one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite things about There's an interview Mila Jovovich. I

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Speaker 1: think that's how you say her name. She's in Rest

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Speaker 1: in Evil, which is based on the games. Um, and

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Speaker 1: there was one movie where people were like, don't you

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Speaker 1: think it's odd? An interviewer was asking her that you're

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Speaker 1: wearing kind of this like tube top and short shorts.

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Speaker 1: And she said, well, we wrote in a heat wave

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Speaker 1: to explain it, and that just cracked me up so much.

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Speaker 1: And it was actually freezing. They were filming in winter,

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Speaker 1: and they their breath out, but they wanted an excuse

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Speaker 1: for It's not there's not a problem in women dressing

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Speaker 1: that way, but this is like, obviously, this is for

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Speaker 1: the male gaze, Like this is not about women being comfortable.

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Speaker 1: This is literally, well, she is a superhero. We can't

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Speaker 1: just have her being in a T shirt and jeans.

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Speaker 1: We need to have her in this ridiculously form fitting leather,

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Speaker 1: somehow metal, somehow chain McKinny type of thing without a

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Speaker 1: pistol on her thigh strap. Because yeah, I think that

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Speaker 1: one of them. I think in one of them, it's

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Speaker 1: already been the apocalypse and she's wearing fishnet stockings and

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Speaker 1: wandering the desert. Who doesn't know, I won't. If you're

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Speaker 1: in the apocalypse, maybe you want to feel good. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: I understand I feel good and and fishnet hose fighting zombies.

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Speaker 1: Come on, I've come on. Um okay, uh, getting off track,

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Speaker 1: all right. Um. Often these male characters act as protectors

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Speaker 1: for the female protagonist when there is one. So even

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Speaker 1: if you're playing a strong capable female character, there's usually

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Speaker 1: a male character that's still stepping in to protect you.

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Speaker 1: And also, I do use the term strong female character

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Speaker 1: a lot in this When I say that, what I

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Speaker 1: really mean is a well written character that isn't dependent

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Speaker 1: on men to rescue her. But I know there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of back and forth on that whole kind

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Speaker 1: of phrase and what or what do we really mean

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Speaker 1: when we say it? Um So put that out there too.

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Speaker 1: Let's start since we've already mentioned it a couple of

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Speaker 1: times with Resident Evil. So the Resident Evil, if I

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Speaker 1: had to explain it very shortly, is basically capitalism gone

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Speaker 1: really wrong led to zombie apocalypse. And that's yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 1: The Umbrella Corporation invented this T virus and it got

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Speaker 1: out and made all of these zombies and all of

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Speaker 1: these creatures. Um So, the first game, which I've only

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Speaker 1: played once, and it is extremely difficult, I'm gonna ask

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Speaker 1: have you played this game? So the first you played once? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've played Resident Evil one through five and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of the like side like crowde Veronica and all that stuff. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I have, and I've seen them all in theaters. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and it's really funny too because as I was researching this,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I'm like feminism resident evil, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of people haven't played the games that they've seen

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Speaker 1: the movies, and there were a lot of essays about like,

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Speaker 1: you know, these movies aren't great, but we're always saying

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Speaker 1: like why can men have mediocre movies? And it's fine,

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Speaker 1: but we're not holding up like we'll see, these movies

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Speaker 1: make a lot of money and most of the characters

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Speaker 1: in them are women, like most of the lead characters.

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Speaker 1: So I mean there is that. There is that. There

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Speaker 1: is also interesting dressing. But there is in the games

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Speaker 1: as well. So in the first game which came out. Uh,

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Speaker 1: she is a member of Stars, which is this elite

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Speaker 1: fighting force kind of like swat. Um wait, did you

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Speaker 1: mention who was she is? Jill Valentine? Yes, Jill Valentine. Yeah, sorry.

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Speaker 1: Um so she is what is considered one of the

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Speaker 1: first playable female characters in Survival Horror. If you find

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Speaker 1: a list of best characters women in Survival Horror, she's

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Speaker 1: on there. I guarantee she'll be on there, um and

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Speaker 1: she I mean in the first game, she uh, definitely,

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Speaker 1: she was dressed in like police gear. UM. I most

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Speaker 1: associate her with the third game, though, UM, which is

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Speaker 1: where she fights Nemesis, which is this huge, like hulking zombie.

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Speaker 1: He's terrifying, terrifying, um, and she fights the multiple times

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Speaker 1: he has not to be traveled with heat terrified me,

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Speaker 1: Like I would just hear that music cue and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: run round on run run um. But yeah, she was

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Speaker 1: a she was a very strong, like she had her

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Speaker 1: plan that she was gonna make it happen. She was

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Speaker 1: gonna fight Nemesis, she was gonna take him down. She

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Speaker 1: even like steals his rocket launcher that's an option and

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Speaker 1: shoots him with it. But yeah, she was wearing a

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Speaker 1: miniskirt and a tube top. And I really can't think

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Speaker 1: of a less functional outfit during a zombie apocalypse then

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Speaker 1: a tubetop. I just you're gonna constantly be standing, so

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine running, right, and she does. She wears

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Speaker 1: a sweater tight around her wais, which always cracks me up.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there was a heat wave, um, But when you

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Speaker 1: are like just standing still and the game as her,

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Speaker 1: she like pivots her hips, kind of sways her hips

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Speaker 1: and she did her hand. Yeah, and it's like look

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Speaker 1: at me, look at my body here, completely out of proportion.

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Speaker 1: It is not plausible in real life. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: um yeah. Breast animators they exist. Um. So there that's Jill.

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Speaker 1: She's also in the movies. Um. And she wears the

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Speaker 1: same outfit in the movies. It's very iconic. I'll say

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Speaker 1: that like every time I see it. Oh yeah, Jill Valentine. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Claire Redfold is another character from Residon Evil. She first

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Speaker 1: appears in Residon Evil too. Um. She goes into the

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Speaker 1: zombie infested Raccoons City searching for her brother. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: have any training, but she's determined. She goes on to

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Speaker 1: lead the activist organization Terra Safe. Um. I love Claire.

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Speaker 1: So the Resion Evil two is set up where you

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Speaker 1: play the story as one leon male character and then

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Speaker 1: you play it on her side, and they kind of

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Speaker 1: intersect in that way. And Claire. I read a lot

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Speaker 1: of interesting I love that these articles exist, but I

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Speaker 1: read interesting articles about how it's almost a commentary on

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Speaker 1: male stocking in because here's this character Tyrant. It was

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Speaker 1: just again this huge zombie. He's just following her around

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Speaker 1: and like harassing her, try to kill her. But that

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Speaker 1: was interesting to me that take of she's having to

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Speaker 1: deal with that, whereas Leon isn't uh and just this

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Speaker 1: hulking thing following her, always this threat in the back

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Speaker 1: of your mind. So that's interesting. Um. You also have

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Speaker 1: eight to Wong, who is a spy assassin, but she

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Speaker 1: she wears a sweetheart dress and pumps are sweetheart dresses,

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Speaker 1: so those are like plunging neckline, but it kind of

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Speaker 1: like it goes down and then comes in almost like

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Speaker 1: a diamond. I'm making a lot of gestures. That's so

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Speaker 1: much gesture, like pointing with the horror whole hands. There

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Speaker 1: you are. I'm gonna I don't even know if I

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Speaker 1: know what that is, but okay, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then there's Ashley Graham. She's from Residing Evil four.

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Speaker 1: She's the president's daughter, and the whole game is based

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Speaker 1: on you like rescuing her. She has his plaid skirt

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Speaker 1: to sleeve this top and sweater tight around her neck.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why the sweater tied around, like being

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Speaker 1: a school type of thing. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can frequently see up her skurge and she's underage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yahah yeah um, and she is very

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Speaker 1: damsel in distress. She is often getting carried away by

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Speaker 1: other men slash zombies, screaming and you have to rescue her.

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Speaker 1: Like it's because in every fight you get in that

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Speaker 1: there's the potential for that to happen. So eventually, for

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Speaker 1: me as a player, I'm so annoyed by her. I

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Speaker 1: was so void, Like can you just not get kidnapped? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's like a Princess Told still Princess Peach, except

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Speaker 1: place a PG thirteen version. Oh yeah, and like it's

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Speaker 1: a bad She's not a great feminist depiction because she is.

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Speaker 1: Her voice is pretty shrill, and she's like it happens

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Speaker 1: all the time to all the time, all the time.

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Speaker 1: She maybe I just wasn't very good at that game.

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Speaker 1: She really doesn't have any agency. There's like one scene

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Speaker 1: you play as her, but that's the scene when you

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Speaker 1: keep seeing up her skirt. Oh no, yeah, because she

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Speaker 1: crawls through things, but you're the camera angles from behind,

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Speaker 1: so okay then yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. So those

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Speaker 1: are the ones I think of when I think of

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Speaker 1: as an evil I know there's a bunch more like

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Speaker 1: Rebecca that we can talk about, but then this podcast

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Speaker 1: would never end. So we're gonna move on to Parasite Eve,

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Speaker 1: which I'm so excited to talk about. So this was

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Speaker 1: a n game about the mitochondrial Eve, which is a

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Speaker 1: concept that I love. Um So the villain who can

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Speaker 1: make you spontaneously can bust or she can mutate you

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Speaker 1: into a monster by activating something in your mitochondria, uh Eve.

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Speaker 1: And then you have the protagonist, I A who is immune.

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Speaker 1: Ia is a twenty five year old New York City

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Speaker 1: cop who wears job appropriate clothes. What and that was

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Speaker 1: truly a rarity at its time, very much. But from

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Speaker 1: what I understand because I've only played the first one,

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Speaker 1: two and three, really reversed and sexualized the whole the

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Speaker 1: female protagonist and from the images I I just did

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Speaker 1: a quick search, Yeah, oh wow, she's like there's a

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Speaker 1: shower scene if you can get attacked and like get

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Speaker 1: your clothes ripped off and it's ay, stay ripped off. Um.

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Speaker 1: I read a really interesting article about how gamer Great

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Speaker 1: Bros like to pulling out that US dreaded social justice

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Speaker 1: warriors ruined their games. But what about when they're ruining,

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Speaker 1: they're ruining. I don't know to see all that. I

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Speaker 1: just want to see her turn people into monsters. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, can't I at least have that. I isn't

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Speaker 1: a tomboy, and she really could have been. She's capable,

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Speaker 1: but she's pretty, she's sensitive. She frequently is thinking about

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Speaker 1: the loss of her sister, but never in a way

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Speaker 1: that holds her back. Uh. And then there's Eve, the

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Speaker 1: Games villain. She she is both the madonna and the horror.

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Speaker 1: She's sexualized, but she's like often monstrous, so at both

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Speaker 1: at the same time, and your brain is like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, what is happening? Um? And then she oh gosh.

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Speaker 1: She instead of destroying, she wants to create, and that

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Speaker 1: is an act of destruction the way she's trying to

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Speaker 1: do it. But that's an interesting aspect of that as well.

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Speaker 1: And when you think about like the miracle of life,

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Speaker 1: it gets turned into something terrific. When you learned she's pregnant,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh no, no, no, no, no, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: So those games. I actually never beat that game either,

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Speaker 1: because it was the really difficult like just playing playing

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Speaker 1: Wise and I got to this crab, I still remember

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Speaker 1: I got to the stupid crab and the sewer and

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Speaker 1: I couldn't kill him. I didn't have enough ammo when

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Speaker 1: I kept dying. And I think, to this day I

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Speaker 1: have that game. I bet if I tried to load

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Speaker 1: it right now, I would be at that damn crab.

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Speaker 1: Interesting concept. It's my my moby Dick, the crab from

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Speaker 1: Parasite Eve. I don't think it was even a boss battle. Jeez. Alright,

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Speaker 1: so BioShock as I wanted to talk about BioShock, which

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Speaker 1: is one of my favorite games ever. So one when

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Speaker 1: I said there's a game that messes with video game mechanics,

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Speaker 1: it's this one. Um I'd like to droll people, don't they. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about that a little bit. But

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Speaker 1: um So, as I got to thinking about this game,

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of debate about the feminism of

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Speaker 1: this game. Um So, this is set in kind of

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Speaker 1: a alternate reality world that's underground called Rapture, where people

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Speaker 1: have things have gone horribly awry and people are addicted

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Speaker 1: to the substance called Adam. And yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that in a second. But to get Adam

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Speaker 1: from Dead Bodies you need a little sister who has

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Speaker 1: an injector and she can pull it out of their bodies.

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Speaker 1: And these little sisters, which are creepy little children, um

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Speaker 1: are protected by big daddies who are like these huge

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Speaker 1: scuba diving things that you do not want to mess

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Speaker 1: with them. So if you think about that aspect of

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Speaker 1: the game, if you look at the little sister big

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Speaker 1: daddy thing. I've been thinking about this a lot. It's

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Speaker 1: because it's basically a commentary on how young girls are

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Speaker 1: the most innocent because the player, you as the player,

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Speaker 1: have to make the moral choice of whether to kill

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Speaker 1: them or not because you need Adam too, but you

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Speaker 1: don't need to kill them. You could, it will just

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Speaker 1: be harder, the game will be harder for you if

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Speaker 1: you don't. And for this choice, the developers chose a

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Speaker 1: little girl, like that's the moral Yeah. Yeah, so that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting. I hadn't really considered it before. I will say,

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Speaker 1: I'm a I'm a big softie. I could never kill one.

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Speaker 1: I could never have killed a little sister. You'll kill

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Speaker 1: all the dogs. Yeah, that's another story. Yeah, coming up.

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Speaker 1: And then just the dynamic of which we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about because it does appear in these games,

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Speaker 1: these survival horror games, a lot of a big daddy

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Speaker 1: protecting the little sister. Um basically like a grown man

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Speaker 1: protecting a little girl. Uh, and that inherent power dynamic.

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Speaker 1: And of course there's also a commentary on capitalism in

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Speaker 1: this game and hiarchy on how you can get ahead

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Speaker 1: by draining these little girls like you can stay, use

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Speaker 1: this system to make you stronger. Even they resist, and

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Speaker 1: they're like, beg you to stop, um. And the only

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Speaker 1: thing that can stop you is a big The big

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Speaker 1: Daddy is a big man, Big Daddy. Yeah, do not

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Speaker 1: mess with the Big Daddy's um So. In the second BioShock,

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Speaker 1: some of the little Sisters become big Sisters, which is

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Speaker 1: the big Daddy equivalent um so quote here, big Sisters

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Speaker 1: are the new gatekeepers of rapture, born from little Sisters,

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Speaker 1: they don costumes much like their form protectors, the Big Daddy. However,

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Speaker 1: these lie that broken mysterious creatures are worlds different from

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Speaker 1: the hulking beasts that inspired their design, and everything from

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Speaker 1: the way their armor p here to how they cocked

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Speaker 1: their head had to tell the story of their creation.

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Speaker 1: So due to the trauma of their past, they are

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Speaker 1: quite aggressive. They are radic. You do not want to

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Speaker 1: mess with them either. Um. They protect little sisters, but

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Speaker 1: they also uh are kind of like vengeance trying to

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Speaker 1: take any They'll kill anybody who killed a little sister. Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: There is just the fact that this substance is called Adam.

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Speaker 1: And then there's another substance for your health it's called eve.

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Speaker 1: Uh has given me a lot to think on as well. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then if we look at BioShock Infinite, you have Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: who is the damsel in distress of the game. You're

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Speaker 1: trying to their whole point of the game is you

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Speaker 1: need to get her, rescue her, and deliver her to

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Speaker 1: someone else. Um. She does have powers. She can tear

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Speaker 1: holes through space and time. She's helpful, but most of

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Speaker 1: what she does is in service to the male player

423
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: character booker storyline. There's a lot of caged bird imagery

424
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: in this game. There's a running theme of is the

425
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: cage bird really free? So even when you rescue Elizabeth

426
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: from her tower, is she really free? Um? It's a

427
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: thought experiment throughout the game, like they actually kind of

428
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: ask you what do you think? Um? And yeah, she

429
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: is pretty much at the whims of her father. And

430
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: I suppose spoiler alert for any of these games, I

431
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: should have said that at the top. No, no, no,

432
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: I don't think we've talked about one that's um recent yet.

433
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: But the one spoiler alert bosh infinite, she does kill

434
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: her father. It's very confusing. Um In. This game also

435
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: has a storyline about racism that has a much debated

436
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: It's been the source of much debate. Basically, the world

437
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: that this one takes place in is in a still

438
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: sort of pre civil war times and there's an underground

439
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: railroad equivalent. Uh. And the game starts at the player

440
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: winning a contest to throw a ball at an interracial couple,

441
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: which I think was a white dude and black lady. Um.

442
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: You can't in this society, you can't be an interracial

443
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: copy couple. Um. And it's a choice you can make

444
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: to throw the ball at them and blend in our

445
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: throw at their captors. Um. So yeah, this is You

446
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 1: can find people arguing that this is very anti feminist games.

447
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: All of them are that they are feminist games. Lots

448
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: of lots of discourse about it. Um. It does have

449
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,120
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Q endings, which I will say

450
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,959
Speaker 1: is when the developers are like you got basically a

451
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: lot of gamer gamer prose complained about one aspect of

452
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: the ending of the first one, and then this one

453
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: they were like, oh really, we will make it so

454
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: much worse. I love it. Um, there aren't a sort

455
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: of powerful women in these games. There's Tin and Bomb

456
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: that that like really built these worlds, but you only

457
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: interact with them through documents and pictures. Um. So yeah, yeah,

458
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: there is a lot of ongoing conversation about this. You've

459
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: gone through a lot. Like I'm sitting here listening, I'm like, okay, okay,

460
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: because I don't think I know much about BioShock in general.

461
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: I just know it has something to do with something

462
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: wrong with your DNA or mixing up you know, whatever

463
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: Adams do such. I didn't know it was called Adam

464
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: and Eve, which I thought was funny. But I know,

465
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: I know you've got some more and I know you

466
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: got a real yeah coming up. But first we do

467
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: have a quick break for a word from our sponsors,

468
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. And I'm going to

469
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: do the thing that Samantha hates the most. I'm going

470
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: to start with the sequel here. I don't hate the most,

471
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: but it is a pet peeve. I do not like

472
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: watching the sequel without seeing the first. I feel like

473
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: that just you have to go in the timeline. Apparently,

474
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: watching Carrie two and never seeing Carrie is a great sin.

475
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: In Samantha's book, it will be rectified. Uh. So we're

476
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: talking about Silent Hill, which is one of my very

477
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: favorite games ever, and specifically we're going to start with

478
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: the second one because it's probably the scariest game I've

479
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: ever played. It's one of my favorite games ever. Um.

480
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: So good golly, if I had to try to explain

481
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: the plot of Silent Hill, oh lord. Um. Basically, there's

482
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: this town that was once a tourist town, but then

483
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: there was a cult and they summoned a demon and

484
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: now people go there to get punished for the sins.

485
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: It's like purgatory. Um. And we'll talk more about the

486
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: origin because it does have a young girl at the

487
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: heart of it. But there are a lot of abortion.

488
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: There's a lot of abortion imagery, pregnancy imagery, sexual assault imagery,

489
00:29:55,040 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: monstrous masculinity, um, religious iconography. Um. Like you find like

490
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: a lot of statues of Madonna the Praying woman. So uh,

491
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: Silent Hill too. I found so much interesting writing on it,

492
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: saying that, Um, first off, this game is very much

493
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: a judgment of the player, more so than most games

494
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: I've ever played, and depending on how you play the game,

495
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: that's going to determine what ending you get, and they

496
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: very wildly. So it's really asking you, like, who are you? Yeah,

497
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: Oh it's messed up. Um. Maybe that's why these games

498
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to know. Yeah, I'm curious about. The

499
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: first ending I ever got was of what because now

500
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: I played it enough, I've gotten every ending because I

501
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: just want to see the ending. But many people in

502
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: the writings I found have claimed that this game is

503
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: a commentary on toxic masculinity. So let's break that down.

504
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: James is the character that you play, UM and you.

505
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: James arrives to Island Hill UM after receiving this letter

506
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: from his wife, who died three years earlier, we're told

507
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: because of a terminal illness. However, when you get to

508
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: the very end of the game, UM, it is revealed, Uh,

509
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: he killed her recently, smothered her with a pillow because

510
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: basically you couldn't take it anymore. She sometimes says she

511
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: wanted to die you do get flashbacks throughout the game,

512
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: but she also says she didn't. Um. He killed her

513
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: because he hated her. Uh, and he was sexually frustrated

514
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: after years of being unable to have sex with her.

515
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: And he does he feels guilt over this, and that's

516
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: why he's in Silent Hill. He's being puttished. She's in

517
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: this purgatory town. Um. And I should also mention this

518
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: purgatory is of your own making. That's the from stuff

519
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: of your your mind. Um. So throughout your as you're playing,

520
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: all of the monsters, almost all of the monsters are feminine,

521
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: sexual eyes our children. Um. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But

522
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: there's one that looms above all the other ones. And

523
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: he's known as pyramid Head pyramid and he has a

524
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: huge pyramid head as you might imagine. He's not called

525
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: that in the game, but that's just what fans call him. Um.

526
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: And he's like this huge, hulking thing with carries this

527
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: enormous it's called a great knife that's as big as him.

528
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: It makes this horrible scratching sound along as he's coming

529
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: for you. Um. But in these articles, a lot of

530
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: people argued that pyramid Head represents hypermasculinity. What James thinks

531
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: is what a man should be. Um. You know, he

532
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: doesn't have any emotion. He's strong, and he's got this

533
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: huge phallic object that he carries around. UM. And he

534
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: terrorizes James, he fetishizes him, he objectifies him. Um. At

535
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: one point later in the game, you can pick up

536
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: the Great Knife. You can take it, but if you do,

537
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: it slows you down. Um. It's like a big hindrance.

538
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: Like even when you're not like about to use it,

539
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: it slows you down. Um. It is extremely powerful, but

540
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: you're better off without it. Uh. It not only represents yeah, penis,

541
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: but the weight of James's guilt. That's maybe not, but

542
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: that's how I interpret it. Pyramid Head can also choke

543
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: James and lick him. Um. He chases James, he forces

544
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: him to run, renders him helpless. Like it's interesting, I've

545
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: never thought about it. But he's not a hero. You're

546
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: not playing a hero in this game. You're playing a killer,

547
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: someone who murdered his wife and feels guilty about it

548
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: and runs away a lot um, which is not your

549
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: traditional like male protagonist that you do. You see these games, UM,

550
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: and James has to come to the realization that he

551
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: doesn't need pyramid Head, he doesn't need this hypermasculinity to

552
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: reject him and to move on. If you want to

553
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: get the good ending of the game, you have to

554
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: do this. Yeah. Um. Meanwhile, there's Maria, who depending on

555
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: your choices, she can get treated very, very differently. She

556
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 1: looks exactly like James's wife, she sounds exactly like James's wife. Um,

557
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: and the game is always daring you to judge her

558
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: for being the same woman leading a different wife, because

559
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: it's implied she's a sex worker. I don't think she is, well,

560
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: she's not real, but you know it's that she is. Um.

561
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: She dies a lot. She does multiple times because she

562
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: follows you around. Um as a way to torment the

563
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: lead male character and demonstrate his failure when it came

564
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: to protecting his own wife, even though he's the one

565
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: that killed her. Um. She is a very like male

566
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: gaze understanding of what feminity is. Again this is James's mind. Um,

567
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: so she SEXI slearting she's dependent on a man for help.

568
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: But James thinks he wanted his wife to be that.

569
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: But I mean she even says I can be whatever

570
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: you want me to be Uh. He soon grows annoyed

571
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: by her and tries to abandon her multiple times. Um.

572
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: She exists as this reminder of his failure, and you

573
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: also have to reject her. Um. To move on and

574
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: get the good ending of the game, you have to reject.

575
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: He has to reject this false idea of what he

576
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: thinks women should be and what he thinks men should be. UM.

577
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: Although you can get an ending where you stay with her,

578
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 1: where you stay with this false version of your wife, UM,

579
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 1: Defeating her is the final hurdle you have to achieve

580
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 1: to make peace with his wife. Um, and what happened

581
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: between them? And he moves on and he adopts a

582
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: little girl named Laura. UM. So if you look at

583
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: the monsters again, they are largely objectified. Women are diseased women. Uh.

584
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: You shrill wife Mary like she has this really shrill

585
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 1: scream she does in a hospital bed. She's a boss

586
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: fight too, implying he also has to reject the toxic

587
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: idea of a shrill, nagging wife. Um. Then you have

588
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: an abused woman named Angela with imagery around her assault

589
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: and she says to James who tries to save her

590
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: with violence at one point, Um, you think you can

591
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: save me, Will you love me, take care of me,

592
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: heal all my pain? M That's what I thought. And

593
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: then she leaves him. Um. So just this idea he

594
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: thought he had to take on like save her, be

595
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: her protector, and she was like, no, you really don't. Um.

596
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: So it was interesting that the reading about this and um,

597
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: some people wrote that they it was how everyone was

598
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: a victim of toxic masculinity here, even James. Um. The

599
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: only way to escape silent Hill is to reject that

600
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: and show some passion. Interesting is this the movies games?

601
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: That's Sean Bean? Is he? Yeah? The movie is interesting.

602
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: I will say I have a friend who just watched it.

603
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: She's like, what the hell? So, because it's been popping

604
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: up on my like you should watch this. But I

605
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: think it was the second one that it was advertising

606
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: and it looks like is it the dude? Is it

607
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: John Snow Guy? Isn't there too? I don't know. I've

608
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: only seen the first one. I will tell you it's

609
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: not good. It doesn't have a lot of interesting messages

610
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: in it, as you can probably tell from listening. Right.

611
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember because I've realized I also confused us.

612
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: Don't judge me with the Hills have Eyes. Oh, there's

613
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: there's some overlap unfortunately. Okay, yeah, I mean it's it's gross.

614
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: It's gross. Yeah, I saw in high school and I've

615
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: never seen it again since. But I will tell you

616
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: Sean Bean spends most of the movie looking confused. And

617
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: all almost all of the main characters are women. So

618
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: there's also a feminist critiques of this. Uh yeah, of

619
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: the movie. Um, but okay, let's step back, Sorry, Samantha,

620
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: We'll go to the first one, so just briefly, because

621
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: I feel like I have the most to say about

622
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: the second one. But so in the first one, you

623
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: get drawn to this town, uh, Silent Hill, and you

624
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: meet Alessa, and Alessa is this young girl who has

625
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: supernatural abilities. Um, she's been tortured, she's been tormented, she's

626
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: been burned, she was used for this kind of ritual

627
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: sacrifice that created this purgatory Silent Hill thing. Um, her

628
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: nightmares and the first one are the source for Silent Hill,

629
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: and her trying to escape kind of starts the whole game.

630
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: So it is female trauma turned into merciless vengeance. Because

631
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: in the first one, you don't you didn't necessarily do

632
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 1: anything wrong that you know of, But she doesn't. She

633
00:38:54,440 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: can't differentiate between that and who deserves to be punished. UM.

634
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: Then there's Lisa, the perhaps overly sexualized nurse but does

635
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: have one of my favorite death scenes of all time,

636
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: and Simple, the very competent police officer who is I

637
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: guess she does get kind of damseled in the end um,

638
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: but she she's throughout the game very helpful. UM. Because yes,

639
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: you are playing as a male character in this one. However,

640
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 1: in the third one, you play as Heather Mason, who

641
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: is the daughter of the person who played in the

642
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: first one. She's the adopted daughter. She's also the reincarnation

643
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: of Alessa and Cheryl. Don't worry if you don't know

644
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: you don't understand that because it's confusing and I'm not

645
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: gonna take the time. Do you want to back get?

646
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: She does. So. Heather does wear a mini skirt, but

647
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: she's not really sexualized. She feels much more practical. UM.

648
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: And that actually plays on her fears later because this

649
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: one has a lot of abortion and like fear of pregnancy,

650
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: like this's the whole thing. She's sort of like can

651
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: give birth to Satan essentially, and they're this cult is

652
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: trying to make that happen. Um, she does start out

653
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: a shopping mall, like she's a kid in a shopping mall,

654
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 1: so it doesn't feel so like or why is Jill

655
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: Valentine in a tube job during the zombie apocalypse? Um

656
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: she I've read a lot of people who said she's

657
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 1: almost a direct commentary on the schoolgirl character at the time,

658
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: who were usually kind of creepily sexualized. Um. She becomes

659
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: the target of cult, loses her father, then has to

660
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: kick some serious ass along the way. But again, there's

661
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: that father daughter relationship that just comes up so much

662
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: in these. Well, like when you were mentioning about the

663
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: fact that because you kind of quickly moved off from

664
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 1: the second one talking about how you adopted a daughter.

665
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: But that seems to be a trope with a lot

666
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: of these as a rectifying or like a redemptive you

667
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: were deeming a very bad character by saying, so, look,

668
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: I take off of a little girl, not just like

669
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: I'm a protector, but it makes me a better person,

670
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: and therefore you have more sympathy for me, right, And

671
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: it's like that innocence apparently the little girl is the

672
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: most innocent thing. I don't know, I just had never

673
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: really put together until I was making this list, Like, wow,

674
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: this is well you say that because some of my

675
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: favorite Korean films has that same arc way as well,

676
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: Like they're rescuing a little girl who is he is

677
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: the father figure, and he sacrifices himself for her, but

678
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: he's done so many bad things that this is his

679
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: redeeming quality and so therefore all his past is forgiven

680
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: because of this. Exactly exactly. Oh and we're about to

681
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: talk about that a lot, but first to wrap up, either,

682
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: she does give birth to God? It was a monster?

683
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: I like that was just slippantly said, she does give

684
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: birth to God. Honestly, in these realm this game, it's

685
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, like, oh, yeah, she gave birth to God.

686
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: Um who is a monster that she kills? Um? Yeah.

687
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 1: I could really unpack a lot more in that one too,

688
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: but uh, no time. Um. I did want to wrap

689
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: up with Silent Hill four, so I played through five.

690
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: But in Silent four, do you have this character called

691
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: Eileen something for is actually a hilarious game to think

692
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: about during Quarantine because the plot of that game is

693
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: that you can't get out of your apartment. You can't

694
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: escape your apartment, and you're being tormented by these like nightmares. Um.

695
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: But you do have like a little people and you

696
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: can spy on Eileen um. And she is dressed for

697
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: a party. There's absolutely no real reason for her to

698
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:24,919
Speaker 1: be dressed like that, and it's just like short, tight

699
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: mini dress. Um. And you do. She does follow you around.

700
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: You do have to protect her. She gets like bruised

701
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: if you if she takes hits um. And you do

702
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: get to play her for a while, but it just

703
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: feels so like I don't know why she's in this

704
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: dress and in heels and she's slowing me down. And

705
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: the fact that you're as a player getting annoyed at

706
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: this kind of female depiction. I do think it's really problematic. Um.

707
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: And you do see that quite a bit. And it's

708
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: weird too because it puts you in the position like

709
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: I'm a woman, but I'm playing this dude, and it's

710
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: most of the developers are probably dudes, and I'm getting

711
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: annoyed by this female character. So it's like almost like

712
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: getting a peek in their mind or something like this

713
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: is how you view women? Are. I don't know. I

714
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: mean that could be said for many a male the

715
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: writers who do really ridiculous tropes for women of how

716
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: they see women. You're like, really, have you ever really

717
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: been around a woman? Yeah? Okay, yeah, alright, so, uh,

718
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: we do have one of my favorites coming up. But

719
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: first we're gonna have pause for one more quick break

720
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor, and we're backs and yes

721
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: we're back with the Last of Us in the Last

722
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: of Us Part two. So yes, I would say spoilers.

723
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: If you're trying to not be spoiled by these I

724
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: would stop here. It's not We're not gonna get too

725
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: into it, but still you can uh, you could probably

726
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: deduce what's what happens in these games based on what

727
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna say, So I'll put that out there, Um,

728
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: so people know I love these games. Is pretty much

729
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: a zombie apocalypse where in the first one, you play

730
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: as Joel, who is, yes this like male protagonist who's

731
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: done terrible things to survive, and you your job in

732
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: the game is to protect Ellie, who is a fourteen

733
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: year old girl who is immune to the zombie virus,

734
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: and you're trying to deliver her to the Firefly so

735
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: they could get a vaccine. Um, so I love Ellie.

736
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: Ellie is one of my favorite characters of all time. Uh.

737
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: And I remember the first time I played that game.

738
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: She was such a breath of fresh air. I was

739
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: one of those things where like I didn't know I

740
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: was missing this, but here it is. Um. She really

741
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: subverts your expectation of young girls. I mean, we've been

742
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: talking about how they represent innocence throughout this and she

743
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: still does. But she is like not the demure. She curses,

744
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: she's feisty, she's got really dirty humor, she can fight,

745
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: she's scrappy. Um. You do start out protecting her, and

746
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: Joel won't let her have a weapon even though she's

747
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: proven like, no, I can I can use one. I

748
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: can protect myself. And eventually, yeah, he's like, nope, okay,

749
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you this weapon. She really carries

750
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: her weight, and eventually you do spend a decent section

751
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: of the game playing her to protect the lead male character. Um.

752
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: And it's still, you know, furthering his storyline. The whole

753
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: thing is. But oh gosh, and that's my favorite part

754
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: is when you play as her, it's much scarier to me.

755
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: But um, she is immune, so she I love how

756
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: she uses that to her advantage, Like, oh, I love it.

757
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: She is queer. Um, she does survive an attempted rape

758
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: and deals with the trauma of that. I'm glad they

759
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: put that in there, because most games don't, like you

760
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: kind of just move on. But she was clearly desponded

761
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 1: after that and changed. Well not only that, but she

762
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: also killed a man. Yeah, and that violentized her too,

763
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 1: Like and I'm like, oh good, I'm not just moving on.

764
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: They did put it like a lot. I did witness this,

765
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: y'all obviously, Um, but they did put a lot of

766
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: like depth of character in that. Yeah. This is the

767
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: reality is a young girl who wants to be a

768
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: good person is traumatized because you had to survive and

769
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 1: this is what she had to do. But the reality

770
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: is you would have some kind of trauma to you yo. Yeah. Yeah,

771
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 1: And and it's great that you I mean, it's great

772
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: and sad. It's one of the things that makes the

773
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: second one so effective because then you see all of

774
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: the trauma, what that what she's grown up into, and

775
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: you just feel so sad, especially because you spent the

776
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: first one protecting her. UM. So in this game you

777
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: also have Tests, who's Joel's partner in crime. She's the

778
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: one that convinces him that maybe a cure as possible

779
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: and he should take he should care enough about it

780
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 1: to complete their journey after she dies because she gets bitten,

781
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:56,959
Speaker 1: so she knews she's gonna die, um and deliver Ellie

782
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: to the Fireflies. And this game else as Marlene, who's

783
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,919
Speaker 1: the leader of the Fireflies. Uh. And it does start

784
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: off with the death of Joel's daughter Sarah um. And yeah,

785
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 1: that propels kind of his like cold, violent, distant nature um.

786
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: And you do spend a lot of time protecting Ellie uh.

787
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: And Joel's violence, which is traditionally a very masculine coded thing,

788
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: is how you survive more than a second let's talk

789
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: about the second one for him, it is um And

790
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 1: these are things at least I can attest to because

791
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: I've witnessed it, not necessarily that played it, And we

792
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: ended up having a big, like a deep dive about

793
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: how you and I interpreted it. And it was so different,

794
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: like all the different ways. So it was interesting to

795
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: see your love and attachments and my detachments and why

796
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 1: that existed, so I will say it had a very

797
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 1: deep meaning behind your understanding of these games. In the sequel, y'all,

798
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: there was a marathoning of this game. Just uh so

799
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 1: Ellie is the primary playable protagonists that you do spend

800
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: am this amount of time playing another female character. Um,

801
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: and I know we're gonna go into that a little deeper.

802
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: And Ellie is still a badass, an awkward and funny,

803
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,439
Speaker 1: but now you really see her loss of innocence living

804
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: in this world. You also have a lot of like

805
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: references to pass events, but you don't exactly know what happened,

806
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: So flashbacks are flash proponent to this game and seeing

807
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: that and her really going all in on this masculine

808
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: violence revenge thing is a direct contrast to her struggle

809
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: with forgiveness when it comes to Joel, which is a

810
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: very painful. It's very painful as a player. I did

811
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: know that the constant commentary I did have, She's like,

812
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: oh no, my heart, my heart, And that was a

813
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: lot of screaming. At one point though, we had to

814
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: make an agreement for me to be a present in

815
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: these game playing is that you have to give me

816
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: spoiler alerts because I cannot handle bad trauma Like I

817
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: just today, I'm like this day and age right now.

818
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: This year, I was like too much, So you have

819
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: to give me a heads up. You don't have to

820
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: tell me exactly what, but heads up is what I need. Um.

821
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: So that happened a lot. So Yeah, it was very

822
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: painful to see, especially because you can get connected to

823
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: them as like you're these people. Um. Yeah. And there

824
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: there were times when I was like playing it and

825
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: I was like please, please, please please, no, please Ellie, no,

826
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: please don't do this. Uh. And she loses pretty much

827
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 1: everything in one way or another in pursuit of revenge,

828
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: which brings us to Abbey, Abby Abby Abbey. Oh, as

829
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,439
Speaker 1: my friend likes to say, Abbey and Ellie are those

830
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: safe side of the coin and zombies are on the

831
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: other side. I even got a coin made for her

832
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: because she went to this whole thing about it. Um. So.

833
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: Abby is also propelled by revenge of her father. Uh.

834
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: And she chose this chance at revenge time and time

835
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: again over a chance at happiness, as did Ellie with

836
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: her ultimate journey ending when she realizes it's pointless. Ellie

837
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,919
Speaker 1: realizes this pointless, so does Abbey eventually that it doesn't

838
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: solve anything. You We're not gonna feel better, um. And

839
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: Abbey's determination for revenge condemns all of her friends to death. Uh.

840
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: Not that they didn't want it to or that they

841
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: weren't involved, but she was a leader and they might

842
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: have let it go and she could not let it go.

843
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: And the thing is Ellie was innocent at the start

844
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: of this, but was hurting the fallout, and Abbey's quest

845
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: for vengeance perpetuated a cycle of vengeance because Ellie later

846
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: goes on to threaten an innocent person just as Abby did,

847
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: and her determination to get revenge. So you see that

848
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: cycle of vengeance playing out, and you see it on

849
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: a bigger scale with the war between the Washington Liberation

850
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: Front that w l l her Wolves and the Seraphied,

851
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: which is a religious group. So you know a bunch

852
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: of factions of people trying to survive in this apocalypse

853
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: zombie world and they're worrying and it's just so pointless.

854
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: It's just so pointless. Um. You also have Dina, Ellie's

855
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,919
Speaker 1: girlfriend who do not mess with Dina. Uh, does get

856
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: sidelined by pregnancy, but up until that point she is

857
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: a huge asset, and even after with her help deciphering

858
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: and collecting information, her pregnancy, along with the influence of

859
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: a younger character, is what ultimately stops Abby from her

860
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: quest for vengeance, even after Ellie killed Abbey's pregnant friend.

861
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: UM Oh, you're putting a lot of spoilers up in here. Yeah,

862
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: I know. I tried really hard to avoid it, but

863
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't. Um and Dina fights for a family.

864
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: We get to see their little slice of domesticity, her

865
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: Ellie and their son, even if only for a little bit,

866
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: so painful. Why she did scream my heart quite often, UM,

867
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: and I kind of just looked over like, okay, we

868
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: may need to pause, but she couldn't pause, not and

869
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: I cannot pause. I will say, I feel like Dina

870
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: may have been the innocence character in this for Ellie

871
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: as well, because they tried to protect her in that

872
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 1: same manner. Um. But not only her, the character Jesse,

873
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: who I was really upset. Honestly, that one upset me

874
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: more than any of the others, I think. Um, but

875
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: Jesse also comes in as a protective and a friend

876
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: and an ally because of Dina. To me, UM, And

877
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,479
Speaker 1: you do have other flesh doot characters. They're like yarra Um,

878
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: who I only got to see briefly because I was like,

879
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: I'm I'm out this too much. It was it was

880
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,479
Speaker 1: like and then there's Nora, mel and Maria, And there's

881
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,360
Speaker 1: a lot of that within, like the sprinkle of outside

882
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: the characters that come in and you're like, who are

883
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: they remind me again? Um? Also dogs? Yeah, sorry, I

884
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 1: do want to point out as you're going through that list,

885
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: I realized, like Maria's a lot of the leaders in

886
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: this game are women of the peaceful places, where the

887
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 1: leader of like the WF is Isaac, who's a man.

888
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 1: So that's interesting. Um okay, And I did want to

889
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: touch on really quickly. I know I've mentioned it before,

890
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: there was this huge backlash against this game, um and

891
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: it's specifically abby um. So a lot of these games

892
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: are games where the protagonist is uh usually pulled into

893
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: your propelled by a white dude. Like, even if you're

894
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: playing a female character, you got into it because of

895
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: a white dude. Uh. And they're usually games about male violence.

896
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: So both of these vengeance stories and sort of father

897
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: daughter forgiveness arcs um and I was thinking about this.

898
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: People were so ready to forgive Joel from the first one,

899
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: the man who you played from the first one, for

900
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: his actions, um, because he was protecting a young girl,

901
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: like you said. Um. But they were so ready to

902
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: condemn Ellie and especially Abby um, which I maintained if

903
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: you started the game playing from Abbey's perspective, this would

904
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 1: be a different conversation. And that makes sense. But also

905
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: think about that before you judge are so harshly. Uh yeah,

906
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: I just had never really realized. Um. And then this,

907
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: the whole father daughter relationship thing and the apocalypse made

908
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 1: me think that men again are really afraid. They don't

909
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: know how to handle young girls. Um. And it is

910
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 1: interesting how often it comes up as yeah, the little

911
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: girls the ultimate innocent. It must be protected. So all right.

912
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: I could talk about those games forever, but it's it's

913
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: going along, So those are the ones I wanted to

914
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,919
Speaker 1: focus on. I did have a couple of honorable mentions here.

915
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: You've got Alma Wade, the psychic villain from f e

916
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: A r. Fear Miku from Fatal Frame. Everyone brings her up.

917
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: She's searching for a brother, fighting vingeul spirits. You've got

918
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: Regina from Dino Crisis which I played as a kid,

919
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: and she had pink hair and I thought it was

920
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: the coolest thing. Um. Susan Ashworth from The Cat Lady. Okay,

921
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: I gotta talk about this very briefly, but you really

922
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,240
Speaker 1: it really plays on the cat lady trope. Her only

923
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: companions are cats. Lots of the villains in the game,

924
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: which are called parasites are They feel like a commentary

925
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: on violence against women. One male doctor kills his female

926
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: patients and uses them to make art. Another eats women.

927
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: It plays on the damsel and distressed trope ramifications of stalkers.

928
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: Sounds like an interesting game. I've never played it, but

929
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: after I was reading description, I was like, I am

930
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: in through this theme? Is the cat the cat Lady? Yeah,

931
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: maybe that's part of the problem. I'm just gonna put

932
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: that out there, but interesting. It's an indie game. It's

933
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: a small game, but I'm interested. Um, you have a

934
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 1: man to Ripley from Alien Isolation, who is Ridley's daughter

935
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: from the Alien movie franchise, which I have played and

936
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: is terrifying. That's the one that can hear you talked

937
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,879
Speaker 1: about being Yeah? Yeah. Um. Alyssa from clock Tower three

938
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 1: who is this girl's kind of like Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

939
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: She's destined to fight these evil entities. That game is

940
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: pretty scary. UM. And then the game Amy, which is

941
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: a game with two female protagonists where every enemy is

942
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: a man. Now, also, I found some games very disturbing,

943
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: games written by male developers that are all about kind

944
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: of enacting violent fantasies on women that are in the

945
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: survival horror thing. We're not really going to talk about

946
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: that today, but I am aware that exists. Um. And

947
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: just some tropes to close this out, I've noticed, like

948
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 1: these games, do you have a lot of depiction of trauma?

949
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: I was even curious, like it's hard to think of

950
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,240
Speaker 1: a female character in these games that doesn't have trauma.

951
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 1: And what does that like? Is that because of the

952
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: genre or I don't know. That's a conversation for another day.

953
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: Perhaps is it a driver yeation? Does it have to be? Though?

954
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: Like I'm curious, Um, depiction of sexual thought comes up

955
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 1: on these depiction of mental illness, which can be very

956
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 1: problematic in these games and in horror in general. UM,

957
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 1: Like Alice Madness Returns, which is a game where she

958
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: I think she's in Wonderland and kills. She thinks she's

959
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 1: seeing monsters, but they're not. Well, I guess they are.

960
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 1: It's a lot we can interpret that as well. Clothing

961
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:48,800
Speaker 1: choice is obviously a problem in these um. So, oh

962
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,919
Speaker 1: that's been that's been a real role in this episode. Yeah,

963
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 1: there's a lot longer than we thought. I know. I'm sorry.

964
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: I just got going. I just got going. I could

965
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:02,280
Speaker 1: keep going forever. But obviously we must eventually stop talking

966
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: about survival horror. Um. But if I did miss any

967
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: any games that you think I should play or that

968
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 1: you think we should come back and talk about, even

969
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 1: among the ones I've included, if you'd like something more

970
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: in depth, people are probably like what. But you can

971
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: send those suggestions to our email, which is Stuff Medio

972
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can

973
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,959
Speaker 1: also send them on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told

974
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks. It's

975
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Andrew Howard. Thank you, and

976
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You

977
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: the protection of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

978
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

979
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,