WEBVTT - Entrepreneur #EEEEEATS: Lessons in Building (The) Infatuation 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.760 I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:05.640 going to have to start making better content. I think 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.160 we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.200 When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.280 I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.680 trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.200 happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:30.080 really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currenty and I'm Alexa Kristen. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:35.960 This is the moment at Landia, a moment we haven't 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.720 talked about, a moment that's coming. This is our last 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.920 episode with Panoply. What do you think, Laura, I'm getting emotional. 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.960 Are you You're going to cry? It's been two years 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:52.520 of unbelievable conversations UM. So many incredible people that we've 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.640 had the opportunity to meet, meet and network with and 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.560 introduce to the community. UM. And speaking of the community, 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.120 I think it's been an unbelievable experience to get to 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:10.040 have conversations UM with so many listeners who have become 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:12.080 a part of the narrative with us and are taking 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.000 the ideas that they're hearing on the show and applying 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.720 it to their business and finding ways to advance the 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:23.480 industry forward as practitioners for practitioners and people who are 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:28.520 unwilling to say, yeah, just put it on the spreadsheet. Yeah, 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.880 that's just what I was told to do. The people 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:35.680 who are willing to question and take risk and say 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.840 what if, why not, but actually do it. And I 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.520 think that's kind of the magic of the Adlandia community. 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.160 While I'm getting emotional too, So with that, we have 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.240 the founders of the Infatuation, Andrew Steinthal and Chris Sang. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.840 Andrew's obviously been on the show. They've had incredible growth 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.480 over the last year really since we spoke with him, 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.080 and it's interesting to see how their entrepreneurial spirit and 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.480 certainly ability to be scrappy and network and average all 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.760 of the assets that I think we value and turning 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:08.679 their business into a contender in the food space. What 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:13.359 I think that you and I find so compelling about 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:17.760 them and what's so different about them is what I 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.560 think Andrew talks a lot about is like, we're not 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.440 going to sell someone, We are actually going to partner 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:30.320 with people, and that means their relationships, their pitch, the 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.680 work that they end up doing is totally different. He's like, 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:38.840 we are idea guys that actually do things, build things, 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.120 make things. We execute, we know how to do it, 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:47.120 and that really is the spirit of I think at Landia, 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.160 the show and and the community of listeners that we have. 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:54.600 So with that, our last episode at the Pana Police Studios, 0:02:54.919 --> 0:03:08.560 we'll be right back and we're back in the studio 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.400 with the co founders of The Infatuation Andrew Steinthal. Welcome 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.760 back to the show. Andrew. Hey, oh, thanks for having me. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.079 We're not talking about the Knicks and what's up? Christang? Hi, Christang, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:21.760 thanks for coming you guys. Why can't we talk about 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:23.560 the next? I love you talk about the next? All 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.600 the tweet about it a lot you do. Okay, we 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.320 don't have to talk about it. Let's just read tweets 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.959 this whole show. Yeah, that's a great idea. That could 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.079 be a new segment. Andrew, you came to visit us 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.640 roughly a year ago. Um, The Infatuation was in a 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.600 much different place, so much that this episode we actually 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.960 had to go through your comms team to get you 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.080 on the show. Listen, we're growing, which is a sign 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.320 that you've made it. Yeah, bureaucracy once you have breacracy 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.240 in place. That's how you know things are going really well. 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.680 We've got layers of approvals. Don't tell anyone are our 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:55.960 comms guy is also a really good friend of ours 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.560 and one of our first clients ever from a partnership 0:03:58.560 --> 0:03:59.880 we did with Whole Foods back in the day, and 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.560 might love New Jersey more than I do. So talk 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:05.960 to us about what's happened since we last saw you. 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:10.400 You've had incredible growth, a big acquisition, some new news 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:14.720 coming out. Yeah so, I guess the last time you 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.440 were here, Andrew was pre these a GAT announcement. Yes, so, yeah, 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.240 so we bought the GAT from Google, which was an experience, 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.560 to say the least, for how much I can't talk 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:25.359 about He can't say that, But I do have a 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.040 question because one of the things that people didn't report 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.440 on it's like, how did you actually get it out 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.080 of the hands of Google. Like one of the things 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.359 that people were talking about was Google was sitting on 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:39.040 this asset right and no one really recognized it and 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.479 they didn't really do a lot with it. How did 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.719 you even go to have that negotiation? Like I think 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:46.720 listeners want to know, like what was the insight. How 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:48.800 did you even know Google had it? Were you just 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.599 doing research? Were you guys tracking this stuff? And then 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:53.679 who did you go and talk to it Google and say, 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.080 you know what, let's take it off your hands. So 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.360 I'd love to give myself and everybody a whole bunch 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.359 of credit about having this like savvy, like sit down 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:04.680 strategically and then how we're gonna go like knock on 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.359 Google's door. They emailed me on a Friday night, literally 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.159 and they said, we're going to sell this. Would you 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.520 be interested. I was in London with our team and 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.240 I just literally, you know, it's probably eleven in the 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.240 morning San Francisco time, but Friday at eight o'clock or 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:21.280 something like that at night in London, and I looked 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:22.440 at the email, and I was on my way and 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.000 to have dinner with our team there, and I just 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.320 like couldn't really even process it. So I just kinda 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.159 put the email down, had dinner, and then woke up 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:30.600 the next morning and got on the plane to come 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.919 home on Saturday and started just like thinking about, Okay, 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:35.640 if we did this, what would it look like and 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.640 what why would we do it? And it really over 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.040 time as we started talking more and more about it 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.279 just seemed like there was a big opportunity there, to 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.400 your point, to take advantage of maybe something that you know, 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.560 Google didn't take advantage of, and maybe we would be 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.880 very positioned to do something great with it just because 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.800 of our domain expertise. So how did they know about 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.279 you guys? I don't know. I think they literally like 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.320 looked me up. I'm not It was the weirdest set 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.960 of circumstances ever. Hi, Hi Chris. You don't know me, 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.360 but I'm Google and we own That was literally almost 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.560 word for word that you know, I'm not kidding. It 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:12.400 was like, hey, I think they said they found my 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:14.080 name in pitch book, which I still don't even know 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.520 what that is. Um, and they were like, yeah, we're 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.880 you know, we're going to sell it, and I just 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:21.839 thought you guys might be interested in So I actually 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:23.599 said to her, I was like, well, can I just 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.720 call you on Monday because this is way too much 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.800 for me to try and you know, digest from an email. 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:29.280 I mean, I don't know if she expected me to 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.799 respond back and be like yeah, well yeah right, but 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.200 uh yeah. And then so we just we just started 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.360 talking and it became apparent that they had a few 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.559 sort of priorities in mind, one of which being getting 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.800 a deal done quickly. Um, and I basically kind of 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:44.400 hit them and I was like, look, you know, Andre 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:46.240 and I are the board and we can get this 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.000 dawn on Friday if you want, and uh, and started 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:50.640 that process. But then, of course it took, you know, 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.839 six months to do the deal. So, so for our listeners, 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:59.120 give the high level pitch on why Infatuation was founded, 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:04.600 what it's mission and purposes, and how this acquisition may 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.400 change that. Yeah, so, I mean, what for for a 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.480 bunch of reasons. When we launched this thing in two 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.520 thousand and nine, I think what we were talking a 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.239 lot about and maybe realized, even though we didn't realize, 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.640 we realized it, was that there had been this big 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.960 shift in popular culture in the sense that people treated 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:26.120 dining differently, probably because of Food Network and food television, 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:29.480 probably because of early days social media like Facebook and 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.560 Twitter and people sharing photos, you know, mid let's call 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.160 it two thousand's there was this real shift in consumer 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.000 behavior around dining, where like everyone was suddenly interested in 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.440 food as a passion and not just a thing you 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.840 did before you went to a concert or whatever, you know, 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.080 and suddenly, you know, a night out with a date 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.000 or with a friend was burgers and beers and not 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.920 you know, French food and white tablecloths. And what we 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.840 felt like, for a variety of reasons, was that there 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.480 hadn't been a correlated shift with the sort of people 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.600 that are covering dining or you know, in restaurant discovery, 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.680 meaning that you know, The New York Times was still 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.280 kind of talking at a very high level about you know, 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.560 restaurant and the chef and the concept of the restaurant. 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.280 And we felt like, well, let's what if we created 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.280 something that was like, hey, I know you're trying to 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:13.880 figure out wheld have a first date in the Lower 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.200 East Side. Here's the best restaurant that fits into those parameters. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.600 And so we started conceptualizing with them might look like. 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:23.520 And then there became this other layer about well, you know, 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.760 two thousand and nine when we started, Yelp was new 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.360 but big, and people were trying to figure that whole 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.720 thing out, and even then you felt like there was 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.880 just this like you know, missing major missing elements. Yeah, 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.680 people were like hated it, even though it wasn't even 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.360 that old, right, you just could tell that there was 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.040 going to be a lot of problems, you know, with 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.360 with the nature of user generated content, especially if there 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.000 weren't you know, smart ways to moderate it and smart 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.760 ways to sort of make sure that the content is 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.480 of a certain quality, um and then the other you know. Additionally, 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:54.280 there's like this whole idea of just making sense of 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.160 the fire hose, and that the Internet had produced food 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.720 blogs of all sorts of you know, shapes and sizes, 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.240 and you know, social media again was a place where 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.520 people would find opinions and see content. So we just 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:06.880 kind of wanted to create something that had a very 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.200 clear point of view that would help people make sense 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.600 of the fire hose. And then like you could agree 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:13.000 with us or disagree with us, but at least you 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:15.400 knew where we stood. And then we wanted to make 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.720 it funny and entertaining and all that other stuff. But 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.960 that was that is and was it wasn't is still 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:24.880 the thesis and the mission for the Infatuation is to 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.760 create situational restaurant recommendations for people and have a relatable 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.400 voice and be um, you know, have the tone that 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.000 sounds like you're talking to a really knowledgeable friend um, 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.959 and when we started thinking about how difficult that is 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:40.840 to scale, meaning that you know, you go city by 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:42.920 city and you hire teams of writers and editors and 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.920 you really have to you know, do your work a 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.360 certain way so that you're seeing as trustworthy and objective. 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:50.920 It's hard to become a really big company, and you know, 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:56.160 a global company quickly. So we we knew pretty immediately 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:57.720 that we were going to have to confront you GC, 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.120 user generated content, just because that's what scales. If you 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.719 create a platform, people fill with content that can get 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.680 really big, really quickly if you do it right. So, 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:09.000 you know, when we started talking about that, there was 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.400 always a concern about how do you you know, connect 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:14.600 user generated content of some sort with you know, with 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.760 the infatuations editorial voice and not muddy the waters. Well, 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.079 turns out the Gap was the first ever example of 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.880 user generated content in the in the dining space back 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.080 in when you know, Tim and Nina the founders had 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:29.679 their friends filling out surveys. So that was really the 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.840 light bulb moment with the acquisition was can we take 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:36.480 there's a Gap brand, which is arguably the most successful 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.520 brand in the restaurant discovery space. That's ever existed, take 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.960 it back to its roots of user generated content, and 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.560 create a platform by which we could then have both. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.800 So we have u g C and editorial content. At 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.120 some point people can cross reference both. Gives us a 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.600 bigger percentage of the market. It seemed like a good idea. 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.559 So one of the things that Laura and I hear 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:02.160 a lot from our listeners is people talk about doing it, 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:07.360 but they never do it. You guys were colleagues right 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.280 in the music We were friends first and then colleagues 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.960 and then colleague. We never actually worked at the same company. 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:15.480 We worked at the same parent company, but we never 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:20.160 worked together. And so when you started talking about it, 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.800 what was and I don't believe in the moment, Like 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.200 I don't believe in having this moment. What were the 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.080 steps into just doing it, you know and just like 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.920 moving it forward? I mean, look, the day that we met, 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:33.920 we looked at each other and we're like, we're going 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:38.160 to do ship right like like like that was how 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:45.440 did you know? We juste corpse lights? Actually, but you know, 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.840 we we had a million different business ideas over the 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.240 course of time. You know, we spent ten years trying 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:52.720 to figure out what it was that we were going 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.599 to do together, you know, and at first it was 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.440 gonna be a record label. And once you get in 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.719 the music business and from the years two thousand two, 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.160 you know, to that and twelve, you realize that's not 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.280 the best idea, that that wasn't the best time to 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.080 do that. Um. We had a T shirt company at 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.160 one point, we made one T shirt, had one meeting, UM, 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.160 and we had a bunch of other ideas, and you know, 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.480 the doing part was never going to be the problem 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.760 with us. We were we were. The thing that kind 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.920 of brought us together is that we were both big 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.720 time doers of many things. You know, we really enjoyed 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.640 whatever it was, whether it was the music, whether it 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.760 was going out to eat, whether it was traveling, all 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.439 of it, you know. And because a lot of people 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.240 go to meet ups and networking events to try to 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:36.600 find like minded partners. So even just unpacking that I 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.000 think would be helpful for our listeners who are entrepreneurs 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.880 or thinking about ideas but are looking for a business 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.640 partner to sort of move forward with. Aside from twenty 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.200 three corps lights and being doers, like, what were the 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.400 things that you looked for in one another and how 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.959 you complimented each other to build a business. At first, 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.800 I don't I mean we just got lucky. I mean 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.520 we Yeah, that's that's true. Actually, it really I think 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:02.840 we were probably I think about this a lot because 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.800 I don't know. I actually don't know. But it's funny 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.959 because that was It's sometimes when you when you tell 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.439 these stories, you sort of tend to like embellish things 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:11.640 and be like, oh, we just knew that we were 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.360 going to be business partners and and usually that's bullshit. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.320 But actually in our case, it was a true that 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.160 we we became friends because we were somehow certain we 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.000 were going to be really successful together in business somehow, 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:25.920 but I don't really know that either of us could 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:30.000 articulate it then now looking at how things have played out, 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.520 the reason we've been successful is because we're very different, 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.120 but we trust each other so like I have a 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.720 totally different skill set than Ander does and vice versa. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:39.720 And like if you saw our day to day at 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:41.640 the office, like we hardly interact with each other because 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.080 we're both kind of off of our off in our 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:46.960 own world. But it's so fine because we know we're 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.400 both trying to do the same things, and then ultimately 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.560 like there's no there's none of that nervousness about like, well, 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.319 what's what's he up to over there? What we know 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.040 is he going to do the right thing in that meeting? 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.840 There's none of that there. So if you have business 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.079 partners that have this same skill set as you do, 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.160 or that you know, even if there's like an ounce 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.760 of uncertainty or distrust, it can be really, really really 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.440 hard to even make it three steps out of the gate. 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.600 So I think he's right, Andrew's right, and that we 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.200 did get lucky for sure because we just happened to 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.200 have very different skill sets. I think the thing that 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.280 isn't luck is that, for whatever reason, we recognized it, 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.640 and then once we did end up starting the infatuation, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.880 that then, as it started to play out, became really 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.360 our biggest strength. I think you just gave tons of 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:35.840 advice to brands and marketing teams because there's this really 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:40.440 interesting thing about pairing people that are actually different but 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:45.520 have the same ethos. So often, you know, cmos and 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.440 brand leaders are looking for this really cohesive team, and 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.200 they're looking at attributes that are too similar, and there's 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.440 like something they're in the tension of being different. That's brilliant. Yeah, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.080 it's really necessary. But the thing is is the craziest 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:02.640 part about all of this is that I feel bad 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.960 for people that are just sort of having a checklist 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.520 of you know, I know the feeling we wanted to 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.200 start something and wanting to start a business, and I 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.320 understand and totally relate to that, but it's I can't 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.240 imagine having like a checklist of being like, Okay, I 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.360 need an idea, and then I need a business partner, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.560 and I need a business plan and having to sort 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.000 of like check those things off in order, because that's 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.880 never how it happens. It's always so messy, and you know, 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.120 you start doing one thing, then another thing happens, and 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.120 then something else comes up and you maybe chase an 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:31.360 opportunity or you don't. And that's the hardest part to tell. Like, 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.200 when you give people advice about how to start a 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.440 business or how to find a co founder, you can 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.560 definitely give them fundamental pieces of advice like this, but 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.160 so much of it's just like you got to just 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.840 start doing stuff and seeing what happens. So what was 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.520 the first thing that the infatuation did. Well, there's a. 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.880 There's a story around this that's really funny actually, because 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.760 we've been talking for a while about doing what ended 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.280 up becoming at the time called the Maculate Infatuation, and 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.880 the really the only reason we actually pulled the trigger 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.480 was that at the time I was single, and Andrew 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:03.000 wrote me into doing some like New York posts like bachelor. Now. 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.640 I haven't thought about it. I just found I know, 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.640 I I I blocked that on my mind obviously because 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.640 I just moved and I found the newspaper. I have 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.040 a bunch of them. It's hilarious. So he Andrew was like, 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.160 oh my god, you just gotta do this, because he 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.800 was just so excited about me embarrassing myself in New 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.080 York media. But so I was like, you know what, fine, 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.240 I'll do it as long as we launched this website 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.680 thing and I'll mention it in my blurb in the 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.760 New York Post. And that was the catalyst as to 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.080 why we finally did it, was it was like, alright, fine, 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.400 if I'm gonna do this embarrassing thing, give me something 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.320 out of it. And that was what happened. Wait, so 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:41.040 what was the track like four people? I don't know, 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:43.320 I really don't know, but that that was it that 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.320 And that's the thing is it's always that's the hardest 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:46.800 step is always just saying cool or to do it. 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.240 Because once we started doing it, whatever whatever we got 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.560 from that New York Post thing, which was nothing, didn't matter. 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:53.880 What we did though, was we had this thing that 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.920 we could now put into a newsletter that Andrew put. 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:58.600 You know, we literally, between the two of us, put 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:00.600 every person we knew on this email only send it out. 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:01.880 And that was the beginning of the whole thing. And 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.360 we're and look at our careers in the music business 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.439 came into play in a huge way. You know, I 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.760 was a publicist, Chris was a marketing guy, and like, 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.040 we used our skill sets to drive this thing. Attributes 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.479 that I love most about the both of you, and 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.399 I think it comes through very clearly when you partner 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.240 with you to do business or the way you talk 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.359 about your brand is the sort of scrappiness and the 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.240 leveraging of a network and the human connection and authenticity 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.800 that you both bring to the marketplace, which is so refreshing. 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:34.560 How are like, what do those skill sets look like 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:36.679 for the both of you? And then how are you 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.680 bringing that into your company with the employees that you're hiring. Sure, 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.439 I mean, look, are as a pr guy in music, right, Like, 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:46.920 you get handed a bunch of crappy bands a lot 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:48.520 of the time, and you've got to hustle your ass 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.280 off to try and make do something, find it, find 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.240 something that could potentially work. But then all of a 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.760 sudden you get one or two good ones and you're like, oh, 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:57.760 this is you know you and you can feel the 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.000 audience talk back to you right like immediately, and that 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:02.720 and that that's the kind of thing that happened with 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:04.480 us where we put this out into the world that 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.080 you know, we weren't sure it could have been a 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:08.800 not so great band, or it could have been somebody, 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:10.680 you know, one that people wanted to hear more from. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.120 And immediately we here, we you know, felt this poll. 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.760 And once we felt the poll from the public, we 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:18.800 were like, let's go and we kind of you know, 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.840 took this. We have. One of the things that attracted 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.680 each other to one another is just the drive part 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.280 of it, right. We were both really determined to be successful, 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.960 to win, to build something, to whatever it was within 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.160 our careers or whatever we were going to build. And 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.440 once we started rolling. That was that was how we 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.360 went and then and that really helped push us into 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.200 you know what ultimately became leaving our jobs five years 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.440 later and building a company. And I think that has 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.800 always been the fundamentals of what we are. We we 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.800 we want it badly, and we want to do it 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.359 our way, and we want to be honest and real 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:59.399 and transparent, and you know that's you know, I hired 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:01.440 another public assists. You know, I'm I run our sales, 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:03.639 I'm our c r O and whatever. I've got a 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.119 I brought another publicist in that we have worked with 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.040 in the music business. Her names Savannah, and she's crushing 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:12.720 and sales. She's never done sales in her life neither, 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:14.719 and I, you know, and so like, I don't know 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:16.879 what people are supposed to be doing in these roles. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.880 I've just been figuring it out along the way and 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.760 being pretty real with the brands and just trying to 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.639 create real human relationships with people and expose them to 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.119