WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Hall-Mills Murders 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.280 Hey guys, Happy New Year. We hope you had a 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:05.240 good new year. We sure did. We're making one big 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:07.720 change to the podcast this year, and that is that 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:12.319 we are inviting sponsors to advertise on the show. This 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:14.840 will keep it free for you guys and free for everyone. 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.040 And uh, one thing that would really help us is 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.599 if we really knew who was listening and what you 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:22.520 guys are interested in, so that we can make sure 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.079 that ads are really matched to you and you're not 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:28.240 hearing about stuff you don't really care about. So if 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.800 you would go, um, take this quick survey, it's like 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.560 five minutes pod survey dot com slash sideways. That's pod 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.800 survey is p O D s U r v e 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.040 Y dot com slash sideways. You guys know how to 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.800 spell sideways. Um. You can also enter to win a 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.560 chance at a hundred dollar gift card to Amazon, which 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.680 would be pretty cool. So thanks for supporting us in 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.720 this decision, Thanks for helping us find the best advertisers, 0:00:52.800 --> 0:01:09.960 and thanks for listening up. I don't know stories and 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:16.880 the answer too. Hey there, welcome to another episode of 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.480 Thinking Sideways. I am Joe, joined as always by my 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:26.319 co hosts and Steve and almost almost gave it away 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:33.440 as my surname is water Alert everybody. Okay, uh wow, 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.600 So we've got another cool mystery this week. First off, 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.840 I want to say this was suggested by Mike and 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.080 a long time ago, I think a year or two 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.759 something like that. Anyway, sometime in the one century. I hope, yeah, 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.240 I hope you're like still alive and still listening to us. Mike. Thanks. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.280 What we're gonna talk about is a very notorious double 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.520 murder that happened almost a hundred years ago in the 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.360 far off axotic country of New Jersey. Uh you've heard 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.600 of New Jersey probably, Yeah, home of like Atlantic City 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.120 and all that good stuff. Yeah, and of course we 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:08.960 got a riff on New Jersey a little bit, and 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:13.720 you know, double murder, New Jersey. So what big freaking deal, 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.919 every day occurrence? I know, pretty much. We're just kidding 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.640 our New Jersey listeners. Hey, guys, don't take it seriously. 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.040 We're just having a little fun. So let's get back 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.760 to our notorious double murder here. Some of you might 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:27.520 have heard of this. It was actually a huge deal 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:30.000 back when it happened. It's like it was like up 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.040 until that that time it was the biggest thing in 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.280 the national news until it got bumped by the Lindbergh 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.320 baby case. Yeah, it took about a decade before it 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:43.240 got Yeah, but until that time, it was pretty freaking huge. Um. 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.720 So what happened is on the morning of September six, 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.919 two bodies were discovered in a field that was part 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:56.680 of a farm that had abandoned farmhouse on it. And uh, 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:58.760 it was kind of a lover's lane. It was a 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:03.960 little a little old called Uh it's it's in northwest 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.560 New Brunswick, New Jersey, and it's called Drusie Lane. And 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:09.560 I look forward on Google, I can't find it. I'm 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.680 hoping some of our New Jersey listeners, if they're not 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.919 angry with us and they haven't shut us off already, 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:15.840 hoping they can look at some old maps and they 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:20.079 find it. But it's off of Eastern Eastern Avenue that 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.720 kind of runs parallel to the river there. If you're PREMI, 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.320 of course you all know where the river is New Brunswick, right, Well, 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.600 it's it's where you dropped the bodies, yeah, exactly. Yeah. 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.040 And these people apparently were too lazy or just too 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:32.520 impatient to get all the way to the river, so 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.440 they dump the bodies a little short of it. Yeah, 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.680 it's not really. Yeah, the bodies were discovered by two 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.040 young lovers. Of course, it was Lovers Lane, so they 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.840 were out for a morning stroll. And I would give 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.400 you their names. Actually their names are available and out there, 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.920 but you'd forget them right away, and it's not that 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:54.160 important anyhow, Right, it's Raymond Schneider and Pearl Bombers. Yeah, 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.160 and actually I probably should say their names. I guess 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.600 there was talking about about possibly one of the other 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.440 and being involved in the murderers, so oh yeah, yeah, 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.160 I know that that's kind of important. Yeah. So he 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:06.880 was twenty three and she was fifteen. I'm not sure 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.160 if that wasn't partly legal, but so let's just take 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.560 it one crime at a time, right, Our two lovers 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.720 were walking down good old Drusy Lane and headed towards 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.800 that abandoned farmhouse I mentioned about, but ago uh, and 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.240 then they saw something. Reportedly she saw it first, a 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.560 couple of bodies underneath a crab apple tree. I was 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.440 gonna say, clearly, they've never seen any horror movies. You 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.360 don't walk to an abandoned barn quite a thing in 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.200 so sorry, good point. It's really true. Those weren't more 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.040 innocent times. Probably people didn't really look at an abandoned 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.080 thing and immediately thinking of serial killer Matt Slash or 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.080 anything like that like we do today. That we totally do, right, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.320 Yeah I do. I do. Yeah, our listeners obviously do. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.599 We've got those emails. Yeah, for sure. So I don't 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.640 go into those places without a clear warm mine duct 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:59.760 taped to my chest. We should just talk about your 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:03.320 defen the strategy for like a quick second. Yeah, I 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:07.680 like it. Face towards enemy is not a good A 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.560 good strategy, yeah, yeah, I would have pointed outwards. Yeah, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.279 definitely that. Yeah, and even then, I'm not sure if 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:14.760 you would survive one of those, but I don't think 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.280 you would. Yeah, I'm pretty sure you won't. We got 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:21.760 to find a guinea pig anyway back to Yeah, No, 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:23.480 I don't mean like I don't I like guinea pigs. 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.360 I'm talking about you know what I'm saying. It's what's 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.120 interesting about this is the position of the bodies. I'm 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.480 sure you guys have read about this. They were they 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.880 were carefully posed. They were laid out on their backs, 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.680 side by side, with their feet towards a crab apple tree. 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:38.760 There was a man and a woman, and a man 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.320 and a woman. His right arm was extended and was 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.880 underneath her neck, and her left arm was extended towards him, 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.440 and her hand was resting on his right leg, and 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.960 she was she was on his right side, and they 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:55.240 were closest to her. Yeah, okay, yeah, exactly. And his 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.400 hat had been placed over his face and he was 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.520 wearing his glasses by the way. Her scarf had been 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.000 wrapped around her neck, and it appears that it was 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:08.039 wrapped around her neck by the killer or kill. Yeah, 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.200 postward you'll find out why in a sack that they've 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.040 both been shot in the head. He was shot once 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.600 in the head and she was shot three times. It 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:20.600 was once above the right eye and then twice just 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.160 below it. I think is where the entry wounds were 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.960 at something like that. But yeah, and they were shot 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.279 from the front, Yeah, mostly from the front. Actually, his 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:31.919 one was kind of in the side. It kind of 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.920 went in like I think like behind his ear and 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:36.520 came out of his neck or something like that. Almost 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.400 like maybe he turned his head at the last second 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.119 or the Yeah, somebody's trying to shoot me, that's probably 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:42.880 what I would do, or put my hands up that 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:47.080 will stop that bullet. Yeah, as I said, it appears 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.440 that the scarf was wrapped around her neck postmortem because 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.600 when they unwrapped the scarf from her neck, turns out 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.000 her throat had been cut from ear to ear and 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.800 that kind of thing. Uh, And apparently it was like 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:01.520 infested enough with I guess that indicated that they the 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.760 bodies have been there at least twenty four hours and 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:08.160 probably more like you know, something like that. They were 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.640 posed in a way that didn't really lead to very 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.280 much suspicion, I would say, right. I mean, it's a 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.160 lover's lane if it's nice enough weather, like you know, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:22.320 they're just taking an app and that especially with the 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.040 scarf over the gash in her neck and the hat 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.920 over his face, that seems sort of like they're hiding 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:34.000 the wounds. Yeah, you would maybe walk past and it 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.120 would just look like, oh, they're just two lovers laying there. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:38.880 It does happen that kind of thing, you know, the 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.120 dead bodies, and people just think it was somebody taking 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.920 an app not unusual. So that's that's a good strategy. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.040 And of course guarantee the body is gonna be nice 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.360 and right by the time they found And so yeah, 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:50.920 the riper they are, the better it is for you 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.880 the murderer. Right. Yeah, the cut, by the way her 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.320 neck was from the right side, that's her right to 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.960 the left, which indicates to me at least that it 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.280 was a left handed kill. We had this conversation with Jackery. Yeah, 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.760 I was gonna say, I I still disagree with the 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.840 automatic presumption killer could have been behind her. It could 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.400 have been instead of a forehand, a backhand slash. There's 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.280 there's a number of ways that could go. Although when 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.760 it doesn't seem like we're talking haphazard slash, like I 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.280 agreed with you with jack the ripper right that if 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.840 you're just if you're like slash backhanded or slash back. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.760 You also don't know if this cut was done, was 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.040 what killed her, or if the shots were I presume 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.520 that the shots happened first at the point she's laying 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.880 on the ground, so it would have been a slow 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.920 cut either way. But you can drag your hand across 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.920 one direction or the other on something that's laying on 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.640 the ground and not resisting you. That makes it easy 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.920 for sure. Yeah, but so anyway, it doesn't really matter. 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.720 There were no obvious suspects who were left handed, so 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.240 at least that I know of, But Lefty got off 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.840 yeah right now, Yeah, that's the guys nickname is Lefty. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.760 That'd be funny. Yeah. There were two autopsies done on 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.280 her body, one just after the murder and then another 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.959 one four years later when the investigation was reopened, and 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.600 that autopsy they discovered that her larynx and her tongue 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.800 had been removed. Interestingly, and so I don't know how 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.319 the first medical examiner managed to miss something like that. 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:27.320 It seems like a pretty big thing. Yeah, I you know, 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:29.520 all I can say is like, you know, maybe they 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.280 just looked at the bullet hole to slit throat and 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:35.120 they just sawt well cause of death open and shut. Maybe. Yeah, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.240 I mean, maybe it wasn't an autopsy, but just because 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:40.559 I had to look this up because the laryrics, it's 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.200 the larynx that was missing, right, Yeah. That that is 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:49.920 just below your basically where a man's atom apple is 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:52.960 up to the bottom of the chin. It's somewhere in 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.200 that range. So it's and it's connected to the tongue 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.640 it's true sort of connected to the tongue by muscle tissue, yes, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.640 sort of, not perfectly. Yeah, it's so an interesting little 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.640 little souvenir to take if you're the murderer. Yeah, it 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:10.400 just seems like it would be messy, yeah, extremely and 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:12.480 that it would have left like a lot of blood 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.800 trace and stuff like that. That's why it brings zip 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:21.400 block bags, I guess, yeah, but I'm just thinking, you know, yeah, yeah, 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.560 if indeed all of this took place while she was 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.080 alive or was the cause of death, there should have 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.040 been tons of blood spatter. Well, there should have been 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.000 tons of blood flow even if she was dead, unless 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:36.760 her body had been drained of blood, which would be 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:41.599 another really important thing true, you know, yeah, I know 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.240 I didn't. The cram scene was kind of contaminated, but 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.200 you think still that massive amounts of blood would be 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:50.040 kind of like evidence. But I haven't found any evidence 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:51.880 that there was. I'm sure there was lots of blood, 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.320 it's just the writings or the investigation stuff is, but 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.200 that it would be all over her as well, a 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:58.719 lot of it on her. But she was very dark 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.400 clothing too, so that's you know, there's that and a 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.480 lot of it was soak into the ground. The state 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.520 of the bodies. It could it could be like what 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:08.640 Devon was saying, It could just be somebody who arranged 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:10.440 him to look like two lovers taking an app or 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.560 just hanging out, or it's kind of it could just 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.319 just sort of a ritualistic kind of serial killer kind 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.440 of pose. Um uh. And I doubt that I doubt 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.640 that they actually did it themselves. Since they've been shot 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.439 in the head, right, that kind of makes sense to 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.720 the killer did. Yeah, this is not a murder suicide 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:30.960 packed thing, no, or even a happenstance that that just 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.160 happens to be how they fell. Yeah, because seeing the 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.719 other Yeah, no, that that that theory is is completely 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:38.559 out there. I don't even know why you put that in. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:40.680 I kind of I kind of like it. What my 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.120 theory is this is that all the townsfolk, when they 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.600 heard that there have been two bodies discovered, came running 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.640 right away to trample the crime scene and take souvenirs. 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.319 Yeah they did, They totally did. And I'm just imagining 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.480 that they get there and he's laying there with a 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.120 revolver in his hand, as somebody says, hey, that'd be 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:02.080 a cool souvenir and just grabs it. So it could 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.240 have happened. Well, yeah, you guys have both seen the 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.000 photos of people all over that place. It was it 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.440 was it was a circus, it wasn't. I mean, there's 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.720 all these guys wearing their their suits and their derby 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.520 hats and everything, and there's like a crowd of them 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.080 around this crab apple tree and they're all grinning and 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.920 carving their initials into this crab apple. They were carving 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.679 their initials. They were carving chunks of it away images 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:25.120 that I saw you could tell they were. They were 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.480 taking big scrapes out of it down to bear wood. 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:30.839 I'm sure that tree was done. I'm sure. Yeah, what 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:32.640 that crab I will treat you to them, I know, 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:37.640 I know, I mean it was a little crabby, but yeah, 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.360 but yeah what it makes kind of a crappy suit 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:41.560 and here it really you know, it looks like a 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.920 piece of wood. It's like, oh no, this came from 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:49.000 like near a murder scene. Well, but also like really really, 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.120 I mean, we all three are like weird people like 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.040 unsolved mysteries and murders and things like that. I cannot 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.880 fathom being like, oh, murder cool, I need a souvenir. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:07.360 What I can see you doing it? I would, yeah, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:08.800 I would get a son or two. I grabbed the 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.400 murder weapon because you always want to get caught with 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:15.800 that with your fingerprints on it and everything. That's exactly right. Yeah, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.320 but anyway, yes, I said, there's not much else in 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.200 the way of evidence, because again, it was all trampled 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.800 on by everybody. So the bodies were really the only intact, 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.040 untinted evidence at the scene. And I'm not even totally 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.520 sure about that, because I wouldn't be surprised if their 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.960 pockets weren't rifled seriously. Well, and so here's here's part 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.320 of the problem we should we should explain this right now. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:43.440 Is that the property where the bodies were found, we're 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:48.600 just on the edge of two different police districts. Yeah, 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.720 two different counties. Yeah, and so the wrong county showed 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.240 up first and oh my gosh, what's going on and 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.600 then realized they had no jurisdiction and they were totally 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.040 off the so they just left. From the way I 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.320 understand it, Yeah, they didn't try to secure the scene. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.319 Should have the authorities who should have been investigating it 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.520 showed up. They had to shoot away the giant crowd 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.240 because there were no police keeping people back. Yeah, I 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.200 mean I kind of surprised they weren't like parading around 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:24.440 with the bodies on their shoulders like weekended Bernie style. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.440 I get a picture of this. Huh. But the the 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.560 initial pose of the bodies was, I mean, that's what 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.760 it was reported, right by the couple that found them. Yeah, 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.280 I kind of, yeah, it was. And I actually think 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.600 that it's entirely possible that they were picked over a 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.320 little bit, but they were pretty much I think left 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.840 actually the way they were found. Yeah, again, it wouldn't 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.120 surprise me if somebody like grabbed a Walter or watch. 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:52.040 I mean, actually the guy's watch was missing, so maybe 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.200 somebody kept it so hard to tell, wouldn't wouldn't surprise me, 0:14:55.480 --> 0:15:02.920 that's Mr Hall Yeah, Mr Hall' spoiler alert in the 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.800 episode title or anything. I'm not sure how recognizable the 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:11.400 bodies were because this is September, so it wasn't like warm. Yeah, 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.360 but it wasn't super hot. It wasn't like a hot 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.280 July you know week or anything like that. So maybe 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.720 they were pretty right, or maybe they weren't too. Maybe 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.680 they were recognizable. I'm not sure. But luckily there was 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.400 a calling card at the man's feet. Uh. And by 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.840 a college card, I don't mean the kind your dog leaves, 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.280 or like the kind of card that like a serial killer. 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.520 Not that kind of card. It's actually a literal calling card. 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.120 It was like a business card, but it's just you 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.120 don't get your name on it. Then in this case, 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.320 the name was the Reverend Edward W. Hall. Calling cards 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:45.240 are an interesting You should look it up everyone, because 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.000 I really struggling to not just give you a little 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.000 history lesson on the etiquette of calling cards. So if 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.600 some of everybody looking up, yeah, you will enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:58.440 Should we get calling cards? Yeah we probably should. Yeah, 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.360 with our logo on them and everything. I don't know 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.480 if we want to do that. Why not they're gonna 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.320 end up at crime scenes. Yeah, I know that would 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:09.000 be Yeah. Luckily our last names wouldn't be on them, 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.720 so good luck. Fine, he guess covered. Yeah. The dead guy, 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:19.280 it turns out, was an episcopal uncle priest at the 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.640 Church of St. John the Evangelist and New Brunswick. He 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.440 was forty one and also, by the way, the card 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.680 was found leaning up apparently against his shoe, and the 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.240 crowd found it and they were all passing around and stuff. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.200 So it was covered in fingerprints. Yeah, it's got bloody 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:35.800 fingerprints on it. I don't know if that was from 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:37.760 the killer or if that was just from the crowd. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.440 They got a little blood on their on their hands 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.560 and then we're just passing this card around, so great, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.680 great job, guys. I wouldn't you know what. It can't 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.080 be from the crowd because if if the bodies have 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.880 been there for thirty six hours and the heat, the 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.520 blood would have coagulated. The blood would have coagulated. It 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.640 wouldn't be as if it was just fresh and wet. 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.400 It would be mostly dried, possibly a little sticky. Well. Although, 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.360 although I have to say this, the pictures that I've 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.600 seen of the card that were only black and white, 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.640 so I saw smudges and fingerprints on it. Maybe, yeah, 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.800 it could have been Maybe it was just dirt, you know, 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:11.679 people had dirty that's true. But I do know they 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.000 dusted the card for fingerprints. His fingerprinting was coming. It 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:17.919 was in it. It was like the only thing you 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.440 could do. Yeah, yeah, it was definitely fingerprinting. Was it 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.080 was its thing. But god knows how many fingerprints they 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.040 found on those you've seen the picture, Oh yeah, and 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.800 that was h and the real trick and fingerprinting in 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:32.719 those days, right, it was like you had you had 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.679 a suspect to compare the fingerprints too. It's not as 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.359 though they had a database that they could run that 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.920 fingerprint through. You had to actually say, Okay, we think 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.680 this might be your fingerprint, Bob, so we're going to 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:48.600 take your fingerprints and oh, yep, they match. It's you. Yeah, exactly, 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.720 and and definitely. I don't I can't imagine what it 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.600 was like back in the day before computers. I mean, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.000 now the FBI and everything they can to database isn't 0:17:57.240 --> 0:17:59.760 just easy, but in the old days, can you imagine 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:01.600 what it hideous job that would be. It's like, you know, 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.440 slipping through the book, haircuts, the mail, Oh, another set 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.560 of fingerprints for me to look through all of our files. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.639 And I'm sure I know they had methods of identification 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.280 to sort them out and stuff and and narrow it down, 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.320 but still what a tedious job. Oh yeah, I know 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.080 there was there were some ways to speed it up, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:19.640 but yeah, yeah, you'd have to listen to a podcast 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.280 to get through your day. Right then I know who 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.640 Tim Radio shows, Yeah, basically podcasts. Yeah. Uh. And as 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.359 for as for idea, the woman and apparently everybody in 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.600 the church congregation knew that the reverend was having a 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.520 little thing with one of his choir singers. Turns out 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.240 her name was Eleanor Mills, age thirty four. Uh, and 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.320 so she was easy to identify. Now. She was married 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.639 to Jimmy Mills, who was a church sexton in the 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.840 Episcopal Church. And also he was also a janitor to 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.840 near my school. And so the sexton is the guy 0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:58.680 who's responsible for opening the church and ringing the bells 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.199 and things like that. Is that I read about it, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.639 but it just it didn't I was like, I'm so 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.800 ignorant of that stuff. I know one of their duties 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.399 was ringing the bell, so he did things at the church. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.639 All I know is the first three letters are sex. 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:12.920 That's all I know. I have no idea what the 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:14.719 sex and does. To be honest, okay, I know I'm 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:16.359 supposed to know everything, but I prefer to know all 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.080 about crime and stuff like that. Yeah, it's the person 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.639 who's charged with the maintenance of the buildings and or 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:29.560 surrounding graveyards. Okay, so yeah, basically he was a janitor. Yeah, 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:35.520 thank you, thank you, Devon, Thank You're welcome. Good job. Yeah. 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:37.040 Should we have Syria on the show one of these 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:42.200 days special guests, Sirie. That'd be kind of fun to interrogate, it, 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.040 wouldn't it. H And also there was one of the 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.199 little piece of evidence that the crime scene, which was 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:52.920 some love letters apparently fragments torn up, apparently written by 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:57.680 Eleanor to her lover, the Reverend Hall. They've been torn 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.760 up and scattered about the scene, although some accounts there 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.439 were just some fragments between the bodies and that was it. 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.240 So if I've heard of both ways, and I guess 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.160 it's possible that when the bodies were initially discovered, they 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.119 were all over the place, and they're the ones that 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:14.520 were left by the time the cops got there were 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:16.960 the ones that were in between the bodies. That's also 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.080 very very possible. I'm pretty sure at least a few 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:24.000 of those things got snagged by the locals and you know, pocketed. Also, 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.640 that's not looking very great for the husband. Love letters 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.360 being torn up and scattered around their dead bodies. They 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:34.320 were from her to him. So how are you saying 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.480 that's for her husband? That's not looking good? How was 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:39.080 he going to find him? They weren't in his home? 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.399 She who said she sent them? Yet that's true, I suppose, 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.480 I guess when when it's love letters plural, I would presume, 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.159 and I seem to remember that they were letters written 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.879 to this affair been going on for years. I seem 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.240 to remember that they were letters over a significant span 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:57.800 of time. Okay, So I would seem the point more 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.399 of a fat finger of guilt at the wife of 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:04.920