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Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio

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Speaker 1: and Adami Studios.

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Speaker 2: In his most recent book, A Beautiful, Clear Collection of Essays,

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Speaker 2: Language of Truth, Salmon Rushti, my friend writes in his

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Speaker 2: first line that before books, there were stories, and that

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Speaker 2: children ask for stories as they ask for food, stories

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Speaker 2: and food, food and stories, food and family. Salmon has

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Speaker 2: been a member of our family for over thirty years.

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Speaker 2: When we were planning dinners when salmon was coming, I

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Speaker 2: would be thinking about what to eat, and my husband, Richard,

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Speaker 2: and my son Rue would be planning to make sure

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Speaker 2: that the ping pong balls and the bats were in

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Speaker 2: top condition. For Salmon was one of the few people

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Speaker 2: who could beat Richard at the game. When I was

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Speaker 2: once falsely quoted as saying to Rue, why did you

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Speaker 2: let Salmon win? Salmon almost didn't speak to me for

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Speaker 2: over a year. But speaking is what we're going to

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Speaker 2: do today. That's what we're here for.

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Speaker 3: Hi, someone, Hello, Ruthie.

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Speaker 4: So it's nice we're here in the River Cafe and

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Speaker 4: a rainy day for change. But would you like to

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Speaker 4: read the recipe?

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Speaker 3: Yes, this is a recipe for marinated grilled lamb serve six.

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Speaker 3: The ingredients. Five garlic cloves, peeled and crushed, two tablespoons

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Speaker 3: chopped fresh rosemary leaves, a good pinch of coarsely ground

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Speaker 3: black pepper, one leg of spring lamb, boned and butterflied,

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Speaker 3: two tablespoons of fresh lemon juice, three tablespoons of olive oil,

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Speaker 3: and one tablespoon of sea salt. Mix together the garlic, rosemary,

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Speaker 3: and black pepper. Rub into the cutside of the meat.

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Speaker 3: Place the lamb in a shallow dish and pour over

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Speaker 3: the lemon juice and olive oil. Turn over a couple

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Speaker 3: of times, then cover and leave to marinate at room

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Speaker 3: temperature overnight or for at least four hours, turning occasionally.

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Speaker 3: Remove from the marinade and pat dry. Season and carefully

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Speaker 3: place on a hot grill. Brown on one side until

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Speaker 3: very dark, then turn over, lower the heat and continue

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Speaker 3: to cook for at least eight minutes on each side.

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Speaker 3: Serve with salsa verde or fresh horseradish sauce.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, so when I asked you to choose a recipe,

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Speaker 2: you didn't even take a breath, You didn't pause, You

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Speaker 2: just said immediately grilled marinated lamb.

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Speaker 4: I was wondering, why.

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Speaker 3: Well you know, in my family, we've always been big carnivores.

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Speaker 3: We eat a lot of meat, so I know, you know,

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Speaker 3: meat is unfashionable in some quarters these days. But it

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Speaker 3: was always going to be a meat recipe. And I'm

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Speaker 3: just thinking, which was the thing that I always chose

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Speaker 3: what I came to each other?

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Speaker 2: And it was always that the menu today, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I think, interestingly enough, it was actually on the

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Speaker 2: very first menu of the very first day, which had

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Speaker 2: like four things on the menu about average price of

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Speaker 2: five pounds, and one of them is grilled marinated lamb.

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Speaker 3: Well there you are, you see, go right back to

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Speaker 3: the beginning here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's probably when we met, was

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Speaker 2: just before the River Cafe opened, maybe early eighties, middies

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Speaker 2: and so. But I'd really like to start with with Mumbai.

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Speaker 2: We were born there, and what are your memories of

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Speaker 2: food and memories.

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Speaker 3: Born and raised there? And my memory of food is

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Speaker 3: home cooking, yeah, and my mother's kitchen and the kind

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Speaker 3: of flavors that came out of that. My mother didn't

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Speaker 3: like very highly spiced food. She didn't like chilis, so

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Speaker 3: the food was always quite mild. In fact, my sister

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Speaker 3: Samine and I grew up on this food.

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Speaker 4: So your mother was the cook shed.

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Speaker 3: Well, she cooked, but she also I mean we had,

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Speaker 3: you know, a cook, and she would always train the

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Speaker 3: cook in the food of the household. And one of

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Speaker 3: the things I've always thought about India is that in

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Speaker 3: middle class kitchens, kitchens which employ cooks, there's always a

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Speaker 3: copy book is it's called hanging on a hook And

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Speaker 3: in that book are the recipes of the family. And

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Speaker 3: I've always thought if somebody could just go and gather

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Speaker 3: the recipes in those copy books, that would be the

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Speaker 3: greatest Indian cookbook of all.

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Speaker 4: Do you remember your grandmother? Was your mother's mother a cook?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my mother's mother was not a cook. My mother's

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Speaker 3: mother sort of shouted at.

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Speaker 2: Cooks, ah, okay, yeah in that way.

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Speaker 4: Do you think she knew what she wanted?

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, she was a grubby old lady. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't have liked to be cooking at her kitchen.

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Speaker 4: Oh really? And what about your mother and her?

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Speaker 3: But my mother was very a gentle person, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I also had an Ayah nanny from South India,

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Speaker 3: came from Mangalore, which has its own very distinctive cooking

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Speaker 3: her kind of pickles and chutney's got into midnight'staurant because

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Speaker 3: I grew up on those. There was a particular green

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Speaker 3: chutney which is famously in the book. It was just

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Speaker 3: a lot of green things chopped up with a lot

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Speaker 3: of chilies. It was very particular South Indian recipe that

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Speaker 3: arrived in our house through her go and South Indian

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Speaker 3: Aya mary mayonnaises. She was called lived to one hundred

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Speaker 3: and two did she spoke seven languages and was illiterate.

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Speaker 3: There's a line somewhere in Midnight's Children where where the

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Speaker 3: character the narrator talks about stirring feelings into food. And

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Speaker 3: I always believe that that if you're in a good mood,

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Speaker 3: the food tastes one way, and if you're in a

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Speaker 3: bad mood, the food tastes another way. You know, that

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Speaker 3: sense of emotion, your own emotion getting into the cooking.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's something I always thought.

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Speaker 4: Did your mother put an emotion into her cooking?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean she actually she wasn't like a great chef,

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Speaker 3: but she enjoyed it. Yeah, she enjoyed it, So the

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Speaker 3: food was enjoyable.

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Speaker 4: What about your father?

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Speaker 3: My father.

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Speaker 4: A Friday day never. Never.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so, yeah, because I do talk to

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Speaker 2: a lot of men who were discouraged from going into

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Speaker 2: the kitchen, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I mean I wasn't discouraged, but I was

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Speaker 3: only thirteen when I left home to go to boarding school.

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Speaker 3: So and then food was a whole other thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that country? Did you go before we leave Mumbai?

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Speaker 2: Did you when you were growing up in Mumbai?

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Speaker 4: Was food?

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Speaker 2: Would you go to the markets? Because it must have

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Speaker 2: been a very rich culture of food.

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Speaker 3: Well there's, first of all, there's this wonderful covered market

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Speaker 3: in what is now called South Bombay but was then

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Speaker 3: just called Bombay, a place called Crawford Market where you

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Speaker 3: can buy everything from like hair dryers to live chickens.

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Speaker 3: And Crawford Market was an incredibly exciting place to go,

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Speaker 3: thronging with life, very noisy and as I say, with

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Speaker 3: everything you can imagine buying, including lots and lots of

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Speaker 3: food and fruit and vegetables and chickens.

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Speaker 4: And you were allowed to go there, there.

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Speaker 3: Was no I went very often there.

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Speaker 2: Did you travel throughout India? Did your parents take care.

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Speaker 3: Making See my father's family was originally from Delhi. Although

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Speaker 3: my parents have moved to Bombay before I was born,

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Speaker 3: but he had still had a lot of connections and

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Speaker 3: he had business in Delhi and sometimes I would go

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Speaker 3: with him and stay in a hotel in Deli and

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Speaker 3: sort of mess around while he did his work.

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Speaker 4: But did you go to restaurants there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And I mean and Delhi of course is the

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Speaker 3: heart of North Indian cuisine. So that what's Moclai cooking

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Speaker 3: is it's called the cooking that is left behind by

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Speaker 3: the Mongol.

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Speaker 2: Empire, right, And how does that differ from southern It's.

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Speaker 3: Richer, you know, it uses a lot of yogurt and

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Speaker 3: ghi and stuff like that. And it's also I mean,

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Speaker 3: the further south in India you go, the more vegetarian

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Speaker 3: the cuisine becomes. From the further north you go, the

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Speaker 3: more meat orients it goes. And that's just the difference

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Speaker 3: between Muslim culture in the north, where the Muslim conquerors

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Speaker 3: were there for hundreds of years, and the Hindu culture

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Speaker 3: of the south, which is largely vegetarian.

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Speaker 2: And when you came, you said, you said you were thirteen,

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Speaker 2: when you did your whole family.

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Speaker 4: Come to London?

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Speaker 3: No, I just got sent to boarding.

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Speaker 4: Sent you to boarding school. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I'm sure there's a lot we could explore in

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Speaker 2: the difference between as a thirteen year old going to England.

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Speaker 3: But food wise, no subject.

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Speaker 4: Well where would you go on that subject?

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Speaker 3: I mean, the food was kind of inedible, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was a dreadful school food. But it, like this said,

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Speaker 3: when we got overcooked beef burger patties, that was the

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Speaker 3: highlight of the week.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, did you mind or did you just get used

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Speaker 4: to it?

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Speaker 3: No? I just I mean I didn't like much about school,

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Speaker 3: and the food was certainly part of what I didn't like.

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Speaker 3: I was quite isolated, but I really didn't like boarding school.

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Speaker 3: And actually when I left, I mean, I had got

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Speaker 3: my place at Cambridge, but I didn't want to go.

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Speaker 3: You know, I said to my parents, I said, just

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Speaker 3: let me go to the university here. Finally there's good

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Speaker 3: universities here. I go. My father had been to King's College,

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Speaker 3: Cambridge and I had got in, and so he was

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Speaker 3: very keen that I should follow him. And in the

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Speaker 3: end I went, And actually I'm very glad I went

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Speaker 3: because it was a very different experience than school. You know,

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Speaker 3: I had a much better.

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Speaker 2: Time going from Cambridge to London you have your own apartment.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, I mean my college friends and I there

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Speaker 3: were five of us who rented a place just off

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Speaker 3: the New King's Road, on the sort of corner of

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Speaker 3: the Wandsworth Ridge Road in the New King's Road, five

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Speaker 3: bedroom house, five pounds each, nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 4: Eight, nineteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, those were the days.

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Speaker 4: And what did you eat there?

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Speaker 3: Do There was a kitchen, soho we would all pile

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Speaker 3: in and make spaghetti. You know.

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Speaker 2: So London in the sixties, working in an advertising agency,

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Speaker 2: you weren't part of the Martini lunch of no.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no no. I mean I worked in two

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Speaker 3: or three different agencies for a long time at Ogilvy

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Speaker 3: and made that. But in those days, Ogilvy's was kind

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Speaker 3: of more or less on Waterloo Bridge. I mean, if

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Speaker 3: you were to go all the way down the strand

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Speaker 3: and turn right to walk over Waterloo Bridge, it was

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Speaker 3: just there. There wasn't much I mean there you would

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Speaker 3: you would walk into Covent Garden if you wanted to

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Speaker 3: get something to eat. So, I mean, I've always remembered

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Speaker 3: the day when the fruit and vegetable market closed in

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Speaker 3: Covent Guard. Yeah, because what happened is.

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Speaker 4: Can I ask you that it was?

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Speaker 3: It must have been in the early seventies, you know.

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Speaker 3: But what happened was that the entire neighborhood, the streets

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Speaker 3: were full of rats because the rats all had nothing

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Speaker 3: to eat, you know, and they swarmed. I mean it

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Speaker 3: was amazing. You would walk on the strand, which with

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Speaker 3: that had its usual crowds the rat and the rats

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Speaker 3: headed over the bridge and I think they found their

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Speaker 3: way to nine Elms.

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Speaker 2: That's where the new that's where the new cover of garden.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was an extraordinary day. The rats took

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Speaker 3: over London.

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Speaker 4: And did they did? Ogilvy and meither. Did you ever

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Speaker 4: meet David Ogilvy?

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Speaker 3: I was just in his presence on one occasion, I know.

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Speaker 3: But I was working full time to begin with. But

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Speaker 3: then I managed to get a job which was either

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Speaker 3: two or three days a week, and and that gave

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Speaker 3: me either four or five days a week to stay home.

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Speaker 4: And right, do you have a discipline?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean my idea, which is probably very bad

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Speaker 3: in terms of how one should eat, is that you

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Speaker 3: should work hungry.

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Speaker 4: Ah okay, tell me about that.

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Speaker 3: In other words, you know, if I've had a nice meal,

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Speaker 3: I can't write just I get slow and sleepy, you know.

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Speaker 3: And so my view is work first.

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Speaker 4: Tell me about you're working day and food.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean I just in the morning, I have

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Speaker 3: virtually nothing other than a cup of coffee. I mean

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Speaker 3: sometimes I have some fruit juice with it, but that's

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Speaker 3: not much more than that really, And then then I.

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Speaker 4: Go to work, you know, for how long.

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Speaker 3: How long depends where I am in the writing process,

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Speaker 3: because in the early stages of writing a book, when

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Speaker 3: it's making something out of nothing, then you know, two

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Speaker 3: or three hours a day, and really you're burned out

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Speaker 3: and you start writing things that you know you're not

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Speaker 3: going to use. But in the later part of a book,

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Speaker 3: when you're writing a final version, I work all the time.

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Speaker 3: I work like twelve hours, thirteen, fourteen hours a.

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Speaker 4: Day, and you don't start to eat.

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Speaker 3: Then I do sometimes, because I mean the hardest thing

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Speaker 3: is the blank page. Once you've got a version there,

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Speaker 3: no matter how approximate it is, working on that is

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Speaker 3: less difficult than the first active invention. And then sometimes

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Speaker 3: I do it. Yeah, I do sometimes have a bit

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Speaker 3: of lunch.

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Speaker 4: Do you like to go out, Yes, I like to

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Speaker 4: go out.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, living in New York. That's what

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Speaker 3: everybody does. I do it before the pandemic. It's what

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Speaker 3: everybody did, and now again it's beginning to be what

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Speaker 3: everybody can do.

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Speaker 4: Restaurants.

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Speaker 2: When you walk in a room in a restaurant, what

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Speaker 2: do you like to see? Do you have a feeling about, well,

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Speaker 2: the kind of restaurant you want to be in.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, the grand old restaurants, so once we

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Speaker 3: just have a great feeling in them. You know, if

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Speaker 3: you walk into Indosine or Balthazar or the Waverley in

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Speaker 3: you think this is a place you want to be.

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Speaker 3: This is not another one of those places. But also

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Speaker 3: I think what's interesting about places like that, Like Industan's

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Speaker 3: been there since the mid nineteen eighties, and the food

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Speaker 3: has never dropped in quality. You know, it's it's obviously

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Speaker 3: not anymore what it used to be, which is like

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Speaker 3: the hottest ticket in town. But they've never allowed the

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Speaker 3: food to become ordinary, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when I talked to Michael Kine, he said that

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Speaker 2: he'd never done a movie deal that didn't take place

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Speaker 2: in a restaurant, and it was always over at lunch.

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Speaker 2: In Hollywood, you go out to lunch and you discuss

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Speaker 2: the deal for the movie and then I don't know

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Speaker 2: if that still goes on, but did you do it

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Speaker 2: with your publishers?

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Speaker 4: An you agent?

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Speaker 3: I remember when I was looking for an American agent

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Speaker 3: being taken out for a very swanky lunch at the

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Speaker 3: Russian tea room by a very powerful agent whose name

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Speaker 3: I won't mention, and she was so kind of grand

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Speaker 3: at me that it was actually off putting you. And

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Speaker 3: meanwhile there was this other agent that was wooing me

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Speaker 3: who had an office which was one and a half rooms.

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Speaker 3: It was like him and a secretary and a xerox machine.

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Speaker 3: But he was so dynamic and energetic. I thought, I

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Speaker 3: want that one, not the fact that you know. And

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Speaker 3: that's how I came to a point Andrew Willy, and

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Speaker 3: it's the best decision I ever made.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you learn a lot about somebody in a restaurant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it teaches you. Do they thank the waiter? Do

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Speaker 2: they share their food? Do they eat quickly? And I

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Speaker 2: think that's why people go for dates in a restaurant,

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Speaker 2: don't you?

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Speaker 4: Or why tells you what?

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Speaker 3: It tells you? If people have good manners, you know?

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Speaker 3: And that used to be something when we were kids

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Speaker 3: that we were taught, you know, how to behave. I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure people are quite taught that in the same

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Speaker 3: way now, but some people have it naturally, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's incredibly appealing when somebody has good manners,

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Speaker 3: as you say, when they're polite to the white.

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Speaker 2: Stuff, or conversely, if they're rude to the white stuff,

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Speaker 2: you never want to see them again.

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Speaker 3: If they're rude, forget about it. Yeah, it's over. And

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Speaker 3: I'm always shocked when I see that happening. So I

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Speaker 3: think good manners and you know, you are what you eat,

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Speaker 3: don't you. So it's it's very interesting decide.

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Speaker 2: About food is seduction? Would you ever want to seduce

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Speaker 2: a woman through food or watch it?

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Speaker 3: I do think that works.

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Speaker 4: It does.

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Speaker 2: I've found out from interviewing other people that they can

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Speaker 2: remember the first meal they cooked a woo a woman,

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Speaker 2: you know, or what they how they tried to or

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Speaker 2: go to a restaurant to see, you know what about.

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Speaker 3: It happened the other way round one or two people

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Speaker 3: who've cooked meals for me in order to that work.

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Speaker 4: Did that work out?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And dates at restaurants?

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Speaker 3: Do you think that I'm not sure that I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure that a restaurant is a great place for a

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Speaker 3: first date. Yeah, it's I think it's more interesting to

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Speaker 3: to do something else. I go for a walk, something,

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Speaker 3: something with less pressure on it, you know, and maybe

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Speaker 3: go out to dinner. When you worked out that you

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Speaker 3: might enjoy spending the time together. Yeah, because one of

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Speaker 3: the worst things in the world is to sit in

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Speaker 3: a restaurant knowing after ten minutes that you that you

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Speaker 3: really want to leave. Yeah, so I think it's a

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Speaker 3: good second date.

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Speaker 4: And what about right now? Who's cooking in your how

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Speaker 4: are you cooking? Are you cooking or I'm going.

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Speaker 3: You know, I mean I have a partner and she's

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Speaker 3: And also, you know, New York is New York. You

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Speaker 3: can order in Yeah, And especially in this pandemic, a

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Speaker 3: lot of restaurants as a surviving method, you know, restaurants

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Speaker 3: which never delivered are now delivering, and you want to

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Speaker 3: do that because you want to help these places survive.

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Speaker 2: I've read every one of your novels, and I got

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Speaker 2: to know you through your novels. And a really pivotal

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Speaker 2: book in my life was The Jaguar Smile because as

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Speaker 2: an American, nicaragen is so close it was so intensely

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Speaker 2: political and resonated. Tell me about going to Nicaragua.

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Speaker 3: Well, what happened was that in the mid eighties, when

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Speaker 3: the Contra War began, I became kind of involved with

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Speaker 3: thing here called the Nicaraguan Solidarity Campaign and was involved

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Speaker 3: in protesting against the way in which the then American

354
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Speaker 3: administration was siding with the Contra in order to try

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Speaker 3: and crush this tiny country, you know. And then I

356
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,080
Speaker 3: was at a literary festival in New York in fact,

357
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Speaker 3: and I met various Nicaraguan writers. It's one who had

358
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Speaker 3: been invited there and they said they invited me. So

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Speaker 3: I went as a guest of the writers' union, I guess,

360
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Speaker 3: you know, And and I went. I thought I would

361
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Speaker 3: probably write something, but I thought it would probably be

362
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Speaker 3: a newspaper article or something. And instead what happened is

363
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Speaker 3: I got I kind of fell in love with the place,

364
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Speaker 3: and I got obsessed with its tragedy and came back

365
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 3: and ended ended up writing something. It's a short book,

366
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Speaker 3: it's but it's a book leg thing. And one of

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Speaker 3: the things that talking of food that was heartbreaking was

368
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 3: how great the shortages were. I mean, I remember staying

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Speaker 3: in this guesthouse is a government guesthouse that was made

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Speaker 3: available to me. And in the morning, going down to breakfast,

371
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Speaker 3: and there were you know, two boil eggs, and I said,

372
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,200
Speaker 3: I had this interpreter who was always there with me

373
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Speaker 3: because my Spanish is not very good. And I said

374
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 3: to her, look, you know, I don't really eat a

375
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Speaker 3: big breakfast. And she said to me, you know, you

376
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,120
Speaker 3: should eat these eggs because they were the only eggs

377
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,400
Speaker 3: in the market today. They've been provided for you eat

378
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 3: the damn eggs. And I just was one indication, you know,

379
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 3: of how impoverished. I mean, we went to I remember

380
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Speaker 3: meeting a farmer who said that it was so hard

381
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 3: for him to make any money that when he wanted

382
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,040
Speaker 3: to service his tractor he had to sell a cow.

383
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,680
Speaker 3: That's not the thing you can do very long, you know,

384
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 3: because you run out of cows. So it was horrifying

385
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:55,879
Speaker 3: how badly off people were. And then how kind of

386
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 3: in a way pro American they were, you know, so

387
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 3: they want the things that everybody loved. Everybody loved major

388
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,879
Speaker 3: League baseball. You know, Ni Karagan's crazy about baseball. But

389
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 3: the thing is that the dictatorship which preceded the Sandinistas.

390
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Speaker 3: The Somosa dictatorship had been entirely in the thrall of

391
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Speaker 3: the United States, and the tragedy of Nicaragua is that

392
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:23,159
Speaker 3: the Sandinista revolution spawned another dictatorship, you know, so that

393
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 3: now we have the Ortega brothers, Daniel Ortego, who is

394
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 3: as bad as any Somosa. I mean, I did on

395
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 3: one occasion actually had dinner at the house of Daniel

396
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 3: Ortega with the whole Sandinista leadership, and there there was

397
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Speaker 3: kind of a being explained to me that the banquet food,

398
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 3: you know, but the banquet food felt a little revolting

399
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 3: given what I'd experienced in the rest of the country.

400
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 4: What was it, do you remember?

401
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 3: Well? It was great, heaping dishes of beef, things that

402
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,639
Speaker 3: nobody in the country could dream of. And the funny

403
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 3: thing was that I thought, Okay, they know that I'm

404
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 3: here to write, so they know that they're on the record.

405
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 3: But I thought, if I put a tape recorder on

406
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 3: the table, it'll completely change the conversation and everybody will

407
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 3: speak to the tape recorder. So but I thought, I

408
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 3: need to make a record of this is you know,

409
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 3: six of the nine man Standani said directorate is around

410
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 3: the table. So what I did was I invented a

411
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 3: stomach upset.

412
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 4: Oh back to food.

413
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I said, I'm sorry my stomach, and I would

414
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 3: go to the bathroom scribble crazy in my pocket, and

415
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 3: then I'd come back and sit down and listen for

416
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 3: by that's I'm so, I really have to go again,

417
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 3: rush back to the bathroom. And that's how I managed

418
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 3: to keep some kind of a record of the dinner.

419
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was a very intense experience Nicaragua. You know,

420
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 3: it's the first It's such a beautiful country and in

421
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 3: such terrible shape.

422
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 2: When you travel to well Nicaragua, to write to Italy,

423
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,680
Speaker 2: to Spain, to India to wherever you go, do you

424
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: think about the food that you're going to eat in

425
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: that culture.

426
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I remember, you know, like just before

427
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 3: the pandemic the a few months before, I was able

428
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 3: to go to a literary event in Wahaka in Mexico,

429
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 3: and they eat amazing stuff. They eat grasshoppers. Did you

430
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 3: this whole plate full of fried grasshoppers? And I did

431
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 3: eat them. China, I've never been to trying to be

432
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 3: into Hong Kong. I've been to Hong Kong, but so

433
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 3: long ago that it was still British at the time.

434
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 3: That's my big hole is the far East of Asia,

435
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 3: the Japan, Vietnam, China very high on my list of

436
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 3: places I'd like to go. Food does a lot to

437
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 3: tell you where you are. I mean, one of the

438
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 3: things that is sensational about Italy is that it's impossible

439
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 3: to have a bad meal, you know, just impossible. And

440
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 3: I think the same is true of places like Paris,

441
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 3: that you don't have to go to fancy restaurants. You know,

442
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 3: you could sit at a corner brasserie and have something delicious.

443
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 3: You know, that kind of culture of food is exciting.

444
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 4: I have ever written about food? Did you write? Over

445
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 4: a few?

446
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 3: Not exactly. I once had to do a thing for

447
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: British Vogue a couple of years ago. It's exactly what

448
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 3: you were saying about traveling. So they asked me for

449
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 3: like favorite places in different countries and so on. So yeah,

450
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 3: I wrote about half a dozen restaurants in different places.

451
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 3: No more. I was lucky.

452
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 4: Oh did you go to Noma in Copenhagen? Y?

453
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: Yes, I did. Out that he's a bit of a

454
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 3: fan of mine, so I got a reservation, which is

455
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 3: not easy, and then I had to eat this thirty

456
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: nine course meal in two hours.

457
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a temple of food. Do people come up

458
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 4: to you in restaurants.

459
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 3: Sometimes find that?

460
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 4: Okay?

461
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 3: Sometimes, yeah, but I mean it's not very often.

462
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, growing up in a house where your mother had

463
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 2: her book and your grandmother had the cook and growing

464
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 2: up with food and you have a sister has not

465
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: only a cook, but she's written books and she's very

466
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: respected in the food world.

467
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 4: So tell me what that feels like.

468
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was sort of a it happened

469
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 3: by accident, because you know, she's all sorts of things.

470
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 3: I mean, she's a very good lawyer. You know, she's

471
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 3: she's worked in community relations a lot of her life,

472
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 3: et cetera. And then I think really what she wanted

473
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,679
Speaker 3: to do was in some way capture our home cooking.

474
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 3: And I egged her on because I knew that she

475
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 3: was a very good cook, and she found the book

476
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 3: very difficult to do. It took her a long time.

477
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 3: And anyway, what came out of this agonized process was

478
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: a kind of something close to a classic I think,

479
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 3: you know, is sa in Russian's Indian Cookery it's called

480
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 3: and she really did capture the flame. I mean not

481
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 3: all the recipes are memories of my mother's kitchen, but

482
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 3: but that's where the book started. And then she added

483
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 3: stuff of her own. So it turns out she's ridiculously.

484
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 4: Food and memories.

485
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: You know, as we started out, food and stories, food

486
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: and family, food and comfort because food is comfort, isn't it?

487
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 2: And so if I were to ask you is I

488
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 2: ask everyone that my last question. If you have a

489
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 2: comfort food, what would it be?

490
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, my comfort food is always going to

491
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 3: be Indian food, so it's it'd be something very simple,

492
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: not at all complicated. I'm very happy with yellow dil

493
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 3: in white rice. One of the bad habits I have,

494
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 3: which you're not supposed to do, is to have bread

495
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 3: at the same time as rice. You're supposed to have

496
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 3: either all. You know, if you're having dial and rice,

497
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 3: you shouldn't also have a chapati or et cetera. But

498
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 3: I do. So that's my bad behaving comfort food.

499
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you, someone, I love you.

500
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: Thank you.

501
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: This holiday season, if you can't come to the River Cafe,

502
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: the River Cafe will come to you. Our beautiful gift

503
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: boxes are full of ingredients we cook with and design

504
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 2: objects we have in our homes. River Cafe olive oil,

505
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: Tuscan chocolates, Venetian glasses of Florentine Christmas cake made in

506
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: our pastry kitchen and more. We ship them everywhere. To

507
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 2: find out more or to place your order, visit shop

508
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: the Rivercafe dot co dot uk.

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00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeartRadio and

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00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: Adamie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,