1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. This 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: Time for a Vault episode. This one originally aired December 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: one and it was called Airships over Venus. I think 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: it was sort of a grab bag of interesting stuff 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: we've been reading about the clouds of Venus. Yeah, different 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: proposed and um and in some cases executed missions to Venus. 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: So it's pretty fun, especially if you're into Venus, and 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 1: you should, because Venus is a really interesting planet. Uh, 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: then this is a great episode for you. Welcome to 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind, production of My Heart Radio. 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 13 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And hey, Robin, 14 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: has been a while since we checked in on the 15 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: air Frier Planet. So what do you say we talked 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: about Venus today. Yeah, I think it is high time 17 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: that we return to Venus. Uh. For for a few 18 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: different reasons. First of all, even though we have covered 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: Venus in the past, there's just so much weird and 20 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: wonderful stuff to discuss about the planet that we had 21 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: to return. Also, in the past, year, we've had some 22 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: developments concerning Venus, and also there's a particular plan of 23 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: a project in the in the works that I'd like 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: to discuss in more detail. Really, just like Venus is 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: just such a wild and wonderful planet, and our attempts 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: to understand how we might might be able to further 27 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: explore it, and also our history of exploring it is 28 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: just fascinating. So we just had to return. Well, you 29 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: know what we always say here with reference to Venus, 30 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: I am the doorway. We are both the doorway. So 31 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: let's open ourselves and and walk through into some thoughts 32 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: about the second planet. Yeah, nice, Stephen King reference there 33 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: are right. So, I guess one of the things with Venus, 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: you know, that I've been thinking about recently is like 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: the idea of of terra firma, you know, of the 36 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: solid ground beneath our feet. And when I think about this, 37 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: iten find it a bit weird, because, on one hand, 38 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: the idea of firm earth beneath us is truly reassuring, 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: and knowing that the Earth is round only makes it 40 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: more so, at least to my mind, because in some 41 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: respects it means that it's Earth all the way down 42 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: underneath this. You know, like the Earth might not be 43 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: the center of the universe or even the Solar System, 44 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: but the center of the Earth is still a center, 45 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Yeah, it can't. The Earth 46 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: can't like collapse and fall through into a space beneath itself, 47 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: because being a sphere, there is no space beneath it. 48 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: You just you go down until you hit the center. Yeah. 49 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: Now the sky, of course, and if you're in the sky, 50 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: that that's not terra firma. And the same goes for 51 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: the surface of the ocean. Despite the fact that the 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: ocean reminds us that terra firma isn't all it's cracked 53 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: up to be. Much of of of Earth is crushed 54 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: beneath an ocean, hidden in darkness, and other proportions are 55 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: covered in ice or propelled so far up into the 56 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: atmosphere by mountain peaks that it pushes beyond what is 57 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: a reasonable environment for humans. Sure, and then when we 58 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: think of other worlds, it gets even weirder. Right, gas giants, 59 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: uh boast no terra firma at all. And then there's 60 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: venus on venus terra firma or venus firma more accurately 61 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: would be a high pressure, high temperature hellscape, but higher 62 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: up in its atmosphere or you know, in or above 63 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: the clouds of Venus. This is the region, ironically, that 64 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: we might find metaphorical Terra firma on the planet that 65 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: is Terra's strange sibling. M hmm, interesting thought. Okay, so 66 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about the atmosphere of Venus today. Uh, now, 67 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: this is this is a subject that's not entirely new 68 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: to us. We've visited this in uh some explorations before. 69 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: We did one episode a couple of years ago about 70 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: the possibility of life on Venus where we discussed the 71 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: pros and cons and various scientific speculation about what form 72 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: that could take if it were to exist. And one 73 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: of the things that kept coming up there was about 74 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: the difference between the surface of Venus and the atmosphere 75 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: of Venus um. And so, well, maybe we should just 76 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: do a brief refresher on on Venus itself. Tell me 77 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: about the planet, like I'm going on a blind date 78 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: with Venus? What what what have you got to sell 79 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: me on this? Alright, So, Venus is the second planet 80 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: from the Sun, and it's just slightly smaller than Earth 81 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: size and surface area is quite similar to our own world, 82 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: and in many ways it can be seen as an 83 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: alternative Earth. The two planets may have had very similar origins, 84 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: but they parted ways long ago. Venus may have once 85 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: had oceans, and may have once or even still we'll 86 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: get into this supported life forms. But today it's this 87 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: dully lit, high pressure world with volcanic mountains and ashen 88 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: plains are runaway. Greenhouse effect boiled away the oceans long 89 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: ago and they were lost to space. There are no 90 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: plate tectonics that we know off on Venus and its 91 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: volcanoes to spring up wherever instead of emerging along plate 92 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: borders as they do on Earth. The high pressure, high 93 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: temperature atmosphere is more than nine carbon dioxide and three 94 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: point five percent molecular nitrogen, with trace amounts of other gases. 95 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: If you're standing on the surface of Venus, it would 96 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: be roughly ninety times the pressure of sea level on Earth. 97 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: Um of course, it's going to vary depending on altitude, 98 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: but that's sort of the ballpark. The clouds are often 99 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: described as being concentrated sulfuric acid, or more specifically sulfur 100 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: dioxide with drops of sulfuric acid within it. Yes, that 101 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: that is what the mist is, So it's a carbon 102 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: dioxide atmosphere. But the droplets that are suspended to make 103 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: the clouds sulfuric acid have fun Batman. So when we 104 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: we think about Venus, one of the cool things that 105 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: we've touched on this before is that when we think 106 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: about life on Venus, either life that could still reside 107 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: there now, native life, or the possibility which we'll get 108 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: into later in the episode, of of its sustaining our 109 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: life in one way or another, we end up not 110 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: looking to that hell hellish surface, to the actual Venus firma. Now. 111 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: Instead we look to the clouds above, or even the 112 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: space a little above the clouds. Yes, and this brings 113 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: us to one of the main things that we wanted 114 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: to talk about today, which was that there was what 115 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: looks like some really major news on the subject of 116 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: possible life on Venus just a couple of months ago. 117 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: So the story turned out to be one of those 118 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: cases of possible scientific whiplash. What we'll get into the 119 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: complications as we move on, but but let's just take 120 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: a look. If you're ready, let's do it. Okay, So 121 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: for obvious reasons, the reasons we've just been talking about, 122 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: the surface of Venus is just clearly sterile. There is 123 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: no way you would expect to find any kind of 124 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: organized life form living at I was gonna say sea level, 125 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: not sea level. The surface level of Venus. You know, again, 126 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: temperatures over nine degrees fair and it somewhere between like 127 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: four hundred and five hundred degrees celsius. Extreme pressure, like 128 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: you just had something like ninety or a hundred times 129 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: the atmospheric pressure at sea level on Earth. It's sort 130 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: of equivalent to going like, you know, hundreds of meters 131 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: down under the water, very very high pressure. Um. It 132 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: is difficult to imagine under these conditions that any sort 133 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: of organized, self replicating structures would be able to survive, 134 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: and there are a few reasons for that. One thing 135 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: is that you know, like, uh, information containing molecules tend 136 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: to be pretty fragile, and they would be probably disrupted 137 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: by heat of that kind. Also, you can't have water there, 138 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: and it's hard for us to imagine what a life 139 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: form that did not incorporate water would look like because 140 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: water is a very water is the necessary solvent that 141 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: makes the existence of cells possible, allows it allows the 142 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: transportation of different types of nutrients and molecules across membranes 143 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Like you can't have life as 144 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: we know it with water, and you can't have water 145 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: on the surface of Venus. But as we've discussed on 146 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: the show before, it is not impossible to imagine that 147 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: life could exist higher up in the atmosphere of Venus. 148 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: So this would be micro organisms floating in the clouds 149 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: where at higher altitudes the climate is relatively temperate, And 150 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: this would not even be without precedent and known biology. 151 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: We're not talking about some kind of organism that is 152 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: unimaginable from from the perspective of Earth life, because here 153 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:33,599 Speaker 1: on Earth there are bacteria such as a Pseudomonas syringy 154 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: that are thought to be present at higher altitudes floating 155 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: within clouds. I've even read about interesting speculation that these 156 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: bacteria floating in the clouds could affect weather patterns by 157 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: serving as ice nucleation points that lead to precipitation. To 158 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: think about that, like, what if the weather is being 159 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: affected by germs up in the sky, and the idea 160 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: of microbes floating in the clouds of Venus would even 161 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: explain if it were true some observed features of Venus 162 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: that that we don't fully know how to explain otherwise. Uh. 163 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: David Grinspoons has written about this, and he's a former 164 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: show guest. We we've talked to him a little bit 165 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: about the signs of life on Venus that that pre 166 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: date the paper that was published this year, things like 167 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: recurring patterns of darkening observed in the clouds. Do you 168 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: remember any of the other specifics he gets into about that. 169 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean that that's one of the big one. That's 170 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: one of the ones we ended up focusing on. Yeah, 171 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: this is this idea that it it almost thinks makes 172 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: you think about oh, some sort of uh, you know, 173 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: plankton type life form thriving in the in the atmosphere there, 174 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: like atmospheric algal blooms or something. Yeah. Um. But the 175 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: other thing is that there is evidence that Venus was 176 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: quite possibly once more hospitable than it is now. You 177 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: mentioned this earlier, the possibility of surface water. Now there 178 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: is definitely not surface water on Venus right now would 179 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: instantly boil, but the evidence makes it look highly plausible 180 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: that v this once had liquid water at its surface. 181 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: Even oceans, maybe as recently as a billion years ago 182 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: or so. That's not ah, I believe that's not a 183 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: known fact, but it seems highly plausible. So if there 184 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: once was a full biosphere on Venus that was eventually 185 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: wiped out at the surface level by the runaway greenhouse effect, 186 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: it's possible that the last remnant of that archaic biological 187 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: world is microorganisms that can live their whole lives floating 188 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: in the clouds. Though it's worth noting that these clouds 189 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: again consist primarily of suspended droplets of sulfuric acid, so 190 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: these would need to be special kinds of extremophile type organisms. Now, 191 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: while these possibilities are very cool, this has always been 192 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: totally speculative right there. There has never been any actual, direct, 193 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: strong evidence for the presence of life on Venus. There has. 194 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: It's just been that we've observed things that could be 195 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: consistent with the presence of life in interesting and surprising ways. 196 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: That is their space for life as we know it, 197 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: within what we know of Venus. Yeah, and the answer is, well, 198 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: maybe more space than you might think. That we didn't 199 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: have direct evidence that would say it looks like there 200 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: is life. That picture got a little bit more complicated 201 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: in September of this year. Uh, now, there's gonna be 202 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: a very big caveat coming with this paper. But first 203 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: I just want to present the evidence that we that 204 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: emerged back in September. And so there was a paper 205 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: published in Nature Astronomy in September twenty by Jane S. Grieves, 206 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: Anita MS Richards, William Baines, Paul by Rimmer, Hideosagawa, David L. Clemens, 207 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: and Sarah Seeger at All called Phosphine Gas in the 208 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: Cloud Decks of Venus. Now, this paper deals with uh 209 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: analysis of spectral data collected through a couple of telescopes. 210 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: So the lead author, Jane Grieves of card University and 211 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: colleagues collected data through two major telescopes, the James Clerk 212 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: Maxwell Telescope in Hawaii and the Atacama Large Millimeter Array 213 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: in Chile. And what the study reported was that they 214 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: had used spectral analysis of Venus to find something really 215 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: intriguing about the gas is present in the atmosphere. And 216 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: what they found was at an altitude of roughly fifty 217 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: kilometers above the surface. I think it was like fifty 218 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: five kilometers in a concentration of about twenty parts per 219 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: billion a gas called phosphene or pH three. That's one 220 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: phosphorus atom with three hydrogen atoms. Now, the chemistry nerds 221 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: out there, or the breaking bad nerds out there will 222 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: alike know that phosphine is just nasty, highly flammable, extremely 223 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: toxic gas. Uh. It's often found in conjunction with traces 224 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: of die phosphine or P to H four, which makes 225 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: it pyrophoric, so fond of all atomatically catching fire upon 226 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: exposure to air at room temperature, lovely um. It is 227 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: sometimes a product of human industry, for example in the 228 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: manufacture of semiconductors, or also in the manufacture of methamphetamine. Now, 229 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: no one is alleging that there are meth labs on Venus, 230 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: but whatever the cause, this was a much higher level 231 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: of phosphine gas than you would expect to find. At 232 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: about twenty parts per billion, this is something like three 233 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: orders of magnitude more phosphine than you would find in 234 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: Earth's atmosphere. Now, why is it interesting to find phosphine 235 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: at that concentration. You know, different planets have gases in 236 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: their atmosphere at different levels. You know, Venus has much 237 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: more carbon dioxide and its atmosphere than Earth does. So, 238 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: so what what's the deal with phosphine Why would that 239 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: catch our attention? Well, in short, the presence of high 240 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: levels of phosphine gas represent a dis equilibrium. Phosphine gas 241 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: is something that's kind of inherently unstable and digestible by 242 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: physical processes, you know, exposure to ultra violet light and 243 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: chemical reactions with other things. Phosphine gas should just naturally 244 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: sort of get eliminated from atmospheres. And this ties in 245 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: with something we talked about in one of our recent 246 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: Anthology of Horror episodes, when we were talking about looking 247 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: for signatures of a shadow biosphere on Earth. Some of 248 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: the researchers there, for example, I think the planetary scientist 249 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: or I can't remember she's a planetary scientist or an astronomer, 250 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: but the scientist Caroline Porko, I was talking about how 251 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: if you were looking for signs of a shadow biosphere, 252 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: you would want to find environments that are at a disequilibrium, 253 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: things that are out of whack with like quantities of 254 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: chemicals that don't seem like they would just naturally settle 255 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: at that level. And I was trying to come up 256 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: with a good analogy to explain why it's weird. Defined 257 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: phosphine like this on on venus. And so here's what 258 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,359 Speaker 1: I came up with. I hope this is somewhat appropriate. 259 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: Imagine and you live in Florida, and you go out 260 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: for a walk on a hot summer day in July. 261 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: It's degrees out a hundred percent humidity, and you're walking 262 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: your dog along the sidewalk, and you notice that every 263 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: twenty feet or so down the sidewalk there's just a 264 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: big old hunk of ice sitting on the pavement. All right, Well, 265 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: that that would be suspect, I think, yeah, exactly, Florida 266 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: weird but weird. Right, Yeah, the ice could be the 267 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: result of a Florida man. That that would explain it. 268 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: It would not make a lot of sense, even though 269 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: not ice does form naturally in the environment on Earth, 270 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: it would not make sense given the conditions outside in 271 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: this Florida neighborhood to assume, oh, this is a chunk 272 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: of polar ice that happens to be left over from 273 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: the last glacial maximum period, right, because like the the 274 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: environmental conditions would have already like digested and recycled that ice. 275 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: The ice is unstable enough given the surrounding conditions that 276 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: you wouldn't expect it to be there from a previous 277 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: freeze over right. It Also, it wouldn't even make sense 278 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: to say, well, it hailed one time last winter, so 279 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: the ice is just sitting here left over from that. No, 280 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: it would mean somebody he's going around spilling ice all 281 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: over the place, or or leaving ice on purpose on 282 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: the sidewalk. Yeah, there's something that there's gotta be some 283 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: kind of anomalous process that's putting the ice there. And 284 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: so back to Venus, if phosphine gas were truly present 285 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: at something like twenty parts per billion, you would have 286 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: to assume that something was continuously putting that phosphine there. 287 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: And while it's possible the explanation was some geochemical or 288 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: photochemical process that we don't understand yet, a very interesting 289 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: candidate explanation was microbial life, because here on Earth, phosphine 290 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: is when it's not made by humans, it is almost 291 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: always the byproduct of microbial life, especially anaerobic microbial life. 292 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: In fact, if you go way back to you know, 293 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: I don't remember how many years ago this is now 294 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: like five or six years ago, we did some Halloween 295 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: episodes on the Will of the Whisp. Remember that there 296 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: would be you know, the legend of there's a light 297 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: in the bog that leads a traveler off the path, 298 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: and it's often attributed to a spirit or a devil. 299 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 1: It's kind of a visual leshy. It's fairy fire, it's 300 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: the the elf fire, the Hinky Puck or Heinky Punk. 301 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: Is it Punker Puck? I don't remember. I can't remember 302 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: if it's Punker Puck. Yeah, I remember the Will of 303 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: the Whisp. Basically, the idea of the Will of the 304 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: Wisp has so many strange and curious names. It's that 305 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: it's been given over the years in different cultures. That 306 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: episode was a lot of fun, by the way, and 307 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: we have to go back and revisit that sometime. But 308 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: so people have tried to offer plausible physical explanations for 309 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: sightings to the Will of the Whisp. Why is it 310 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: that so many people reports seeing, you know, a blue 311 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: or green light in the swamp that's dancing around as 312 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: if it's a lantern carried by a ghost, And a 313 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: lot of these physical explanations for that phenomena involve phosphine gas. 314 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: Often the explanation is some variation on well, there's the 315 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: bog or a bunch of mud, and there's rotting vegetation, 316 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: and and maybe bones from animals down there that are 317 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: being consumed and metabolized by anaerobic bacteria, which produced phosphine 318 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: gas is a byproduct. And then this phosphine gas and 319 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: the presence of die phosphine or p to H four 320 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: is sort of burping up out of the earth and 321 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: is sometimes spontaneously ignited on contact with the air, or 322 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: maybe it's just producing a sort of cool blue or 323 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: green glow without necessarily catching on fire. But it's in 324 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: the presence of some of some of the pyrophoric gas, 325 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: and whatever is going on here, this glowing or chemoluminescent 326 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 1: luminescent cloud or this flame becomes the will of the wisp. 327 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: But whether or not that is the the actual explanation 328 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: for will of the whisp sightings, it is absolutely true 329 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: that anaerobic bacteria deco imposing organic matter down in the 330 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: bog will produce phosphine gas. That's just something that's known 331 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: that they're known to do. Another interesting coincidence, the authors 332 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: proposed that the phosphine gas detected in Venus's atmosphere was 333 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: that altitudes of around fifty kilometers or like fifty kilometers. 334 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: This also happens to be an altitude where environmental conditions 335 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: are much more tolerable on Venus around thirty degrees celsius 336 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: or something like eighty something degrees fahrenheit and a pressure 337 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: similar to Earth's atmosphere. Yeah, this is one of the 338 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: key um layers on Venus that we're often looking at 339 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: when we're actually sending some sort of a probe there 340 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: or planning for possible missions to Venus in the future. Right, 341 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: and so, if this phosphine gas was a byproduct of 342 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: the metabolism of some type of microbe, one possibility that 343 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: was discussed in this was quoted in an m I T. 344 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: Tech Review article I was reading. This is from Jane Grieves, 345 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: the lead author on the study. She said, quote that 346 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: suggests it's part of the global circulation pattern of the 347 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: atmosphere where gas sinks before it travels as far as 348 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: the polls. So I guess a question would be, well, 349 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: could something else be putting the phosphine gas there? Like 350 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: with the Florida example, Uh, is there something else that 351 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: could account for chunks of ice being found along the sidewalk, 352 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: and you could come up with explanations. You could say, yeah, 353 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, maybe there was some kind of 354 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: upper atmosphere phenomena, some kind of weird anomalous hail storm, 355 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: and these things fell even though it's hot outside. It 356 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: just happened recently. You could come up with things. Uh. 357 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: For example, we know that some amount of phosphine gas 358 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: is generated by a biotic you know, non organic processes 359 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: deep in the atmosphere of Jupiter. But Jupiter is a 360 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: gas giant, and the phosphine there is produced under conditions 361 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: that do not seem to be possible on Venus, at 362 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: least as far as we know. So could it be 363 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: produced by lightning or space impacts or Vulkar Haino's or 364 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: some other high energy phenomena like that. Well, again, this 365 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: was analyzed by the authors of the paper, and it 366 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: looks like no, not as far as we know nothing. No, 367 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: a biotic process we're aware of seems capable of explaining 368 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: the amounts of phosphine found. So basically, if if the 369 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: findings in this original study from September are correct, there 370 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: is anomalous gas present in the atmosphere of Venus, and 371 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: we don't know of any photochemical or geochemical process that 372 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: could have put it there in the amount that we 373 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: find it. And on Earth the same gas is often 374 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: the byproduct of microbial life. So this is not by 375 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: any means proof of alien life, but it is extremely 376 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: tantalizing from an astrobiological point of view. Again, kind of 377 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: widens the space possible for life to exist in. Well, 378 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: would say more than that. I mean it says, here's 379 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: something we observe and we know it could be explained 380 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: by life, and nothing else that we know of would 381 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: seem to explain it very well. Yeah, but to be 382 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: very clear, this is not proof. And I was reading 383 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: an article in Chemical and Engineering News by Arianna Remmel 384 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: who quotes an astro chemist who who had some good 385 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: thoughts here. So I just want to read a quote 386 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: from this article. Anthony Remission, and astro chemist to the 387 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: National Radio Astronomy Observatory who is not involved in the study, 388 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: says the team did a fantastic job presenting their findings, 389 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: but he remains skeptical. Scientists need more spectral data to 390 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: verify that the signal comes from pH three remission, says quote, 391 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: but it's a first good step in that direction. As 392 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: for what could produce phosphine on venus, he says, we 393 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: need a better understanding of the fundamental chemistry forming these 394 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: types of molecules before calling it a biosignature. So, uh, 395 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: you know, so praise for the study, but you know, 396 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: caution tempering the optimism. It's not like we know there 397 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: are aliens there now. And when this study was first 398 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: published in September, people got really excited. A lot of 399 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: listeners asked us directly to cover this on the show, 400 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: especially since we've done episodes on the possibility of life 401 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: on venus before and it was really cool. But I 402 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,479 Speaker 1: figured we should wait for the experts to chew on 403 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: this a little more before we did an episode about it. 404 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: And I'm glad we did wait, because while this finding 405 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: remains very interesting and is by no means totally overturned, 406 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 1: subsequent research is making the picture look more complicated and 407 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: less clear. So there are reports of at least three studies, 408 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: at least one of which involves one of the same 409 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: authors as the original study, and this uh, they tried 410 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: to confirm the presence of phosphene, and of these three, 411 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: all three failed to confirm it. Now, I don't know 412 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: if all of them are published yet. I think at 413 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: least one of them is. But these are media reports 414 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: I was reading in for example, the m I. T. 415 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: Tech Review and in National Geographic that we're based off 416 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: of reports from pre print versions of these studies. So 417 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: you know, maybe not fully confirmed yet, but there are 418 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: at least some questions that are arising. And the basic 419 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: issue is they're looking to confirm the signs of phosphine 420 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: in the atmosphere and they're not necessarily finding it. So 421 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: one tried to look for signs of phosphine and older 422 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: archival observations of venus and didn't find it. A couple 423 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: of others processed the same raw data from the September study, 424 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: just using a different mathematical analysis method, different method for 425 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: crunching the numbers, and they didn't find the same strong 426 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: indications for the presence of phosphine. Now, these differences could 427 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 1: be because the initial study was mistaken, or there could 428 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: be other reasons. For example, in the one where they 429 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: look at the archival data and don't find the same thing. Well, 430 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: it could be that maybe there are cycles in which 431 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: the presence of phosphine gas spikes at certain times in 432 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: certain places in history on Venus. So from what I've 433 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: been reading now, it's not as simple as yes there 434 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,479 Speaker 1: is phosphine or no there is not. It looks like 435 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: at this point it remains a complicated, unsettled question, and 436 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: we need more research. So what would be really great 437 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: would just be, like, you know, go to Venus and 438 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: settle this whole thing. Yeah, absolutely, I mean, and of 439 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: course they're there are two ways of considering that. One, 440 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: of course, is send more missions to Venus uh. And 441 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: of course there are a number of those either planned 442 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: or in sort of aplete pre planning pre approval phase. 443 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: And then of course there's the the ultimate dream, right, 444 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: the idea of sending human explorers to Venus uh, perhaps 445 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: even as a first human venture to another world. UH. 446 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: And it's just impossible not to be excited by these 447 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: these ideas. Thank thank thank so. For the rest of 448 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: the episode, I thought we might talk about some of 449 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: the more exciting concepts out there involving humans visiting or 450 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: even staying for an extended amount of time in the 451 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: atmosphere of Venus. And to kick this off, I want 452 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: to read a quote from David Grinspoon in his book 453 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 1: Venus Revealed. This is from chapter six, and you can 454 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: actually read this entire chapter, I believe at his website 455 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: Funky Science dot net um because he's dr what was 456 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: his his his spoon. Yeah, come on, David, I love 457 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: your work, but that's Oh I think Funky Funky Spoon works. 458 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: You're done without branding. Okay, yeah, yeah, I think it works, 459 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: so so anyway, grin Spoon writes the following quote, I 460 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: have a fantasy of cloud cities on Venus, huge and 461 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: closed habitats suspended from giant balloons at a certain altitude 462 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: where the temperature and pressure would be comfortable for us. 463 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: We would mostly just have to keep the air fresh, 464 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: maybe by collecting solar energy to make oxygen from C 465 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: O two or better yet, growing to do the job 466 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: for us. Why should we bother to do such a thing. 467 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. These could be research stations, or maybe 468 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: there will be some economic incentive, something rare or beautiful 469 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: found only on Venus. Or maybe in the very long run, 470 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: after we have solved all our major problems here on Earth, 471 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: we will go just for the hell of it, because 472 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: it is there. I'm hoping the reason that we set 473 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 1: up colonies on Venus does not become a phosphene harvesting 474 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: enterprise where we're that's trying to get as much poison 475 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 1: gas as we can. Yeah, I mean maybe the secret 476 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: math reserves, so the reason we go there, you know. Um, 477 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: but but I think this is a wonderful quote from 478 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: from Grimsman because he's you know, he's he's he's very 479 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: much a scientist, but he also has this this this 480 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: just raw uh you know, wonder and sound of science 481 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: fictional curiosity too, you know, just like like imagine what 482 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: it would be like if we were there, and and 483 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: we've we've had various versions of this in our science 484 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: fiction over the years. And you see other spins on 485 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: this too, right, I mean even Star Wars you have 486 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: the best spin, which I believe is a gas giant 487 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: in the Star Wars universe. But you have a cloud 488 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: city there. You have a city floating in the sky. 489 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a few things more amazing. It seems 490 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: hard to imagine that you could actually have a city 491 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 1: floating over a gas giant, because I would think a 492 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: gas giant would tend to admit levels of radiation that 493 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: would kill everybody in the cloud city Lando has it 494 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: cleaned up rather nicely though it looks looks pretty swank. Well. Um, 495 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: all this made me wonder. I was thinking to myself, 496 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: what is the earliest example of science fiction pondering, um, 497 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: habitats within the clouds of Venus or something like that, 498 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: And I was looking around. I didn't I didn't find 499 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: anybody doing the work for me on this, like conclusively, Um, 500 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: trying to answer this question. Maybe I just missed it. Uh, 501 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: in all things, isn't all things? I'm happy to be 502 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: corrected on this if I'm wrong, But it seems like 503 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: a possible answer comes from astronomer and scive author Garrett P. Service, 504 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: who wrote a book in nineteen o nine titled A 505 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: Columbus of Space, which I think you know in nine 506 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: would have had nicer connotations for the historical reassessment of Columbus. Yeah. So, 507 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: basically this is about a human explorer who travels to 508 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: Venus in an atomic spaceship to explore the planet, and 509 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: there he encounters two different psychic species, a sort of 510 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: morlock species that lives on the planet's surface and another 511 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: species that lives in the clouds that are are basically 512 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: humans or englishmen. Uh. You can find this. This full 513 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: book is available on Project Gutenberg if you look it up. 514 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: But I just want to read it. Just a quick 515 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: exchange here between two characters. This is after they have 516 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: arrived in their atomic rocket ship on into the atmosphere 517 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: of Venus, and one says to the other, those are airships. Airships. Yes, 518 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: surely an exploring expedition. I shouldn't under I anticipated something 519 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: of that kind. You know already how dense the atmosphere 520 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: of Venus is. It follows the balloons and all sorts 521 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: of machines for aerial navigation can float much more easily 522 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: here than over on Earth. I was prepared to find 523 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: the inhabitants of Venus skilled in such things, and I'm 524 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: not surprised by what do we see. So I also 525 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: just love the spirit of that. It's like, yeah, just 526 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: as I imagined, they are flying ships on Venus full 527 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: of englishmen. Um, this is exactly as I thought I 528 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: it would it would This is exactly how I thought 529 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: it would pan out. I like your Venus voice too. 530 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: Now why is he saying that they can float much 531 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: more easily on Venus than over the Earth. Is that 532 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: because it was understood at the time that the atmosphere 533 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: of Venus was denser than Earth's atmosphere. Yeah, I guess 534 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: that's the case here. Like I said, it doesn't it 535 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: certainly doesn't hold up too much, um, modern scrutiny. It's 536 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: very you know, it's it's very much old timey science fiction. 537 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: And I think the thing is, you see a lot 538 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: of that. The the Golden Age of science fiction is 539 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: the time where yes, we were gazing at at Mars 540 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: and and Venus and wondering what was their dreaming of 541 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: canals on Mars and so forth. Um. But at the 542 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: same time it was a period in which we were 543 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: enraptured by the technology of flight, of powered human flight. 544 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: And so even in is it was even as we 545 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: see modern retreatments of of this idea, we see that 546 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: Golden Age enthusiasm, uh, kind of creep in. For instance, 547 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: there's a short story that I ran across that I 548 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: haven't read, but it was published in two thousand ten 549 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: and Asimov science Fiction by Jeffrey A. Landis, who's not 550 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: only a hard science fiction author but a NASA aerospace engineer, 551 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: and he wrote of what is apparently a kind of 552 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: like Golden Age um flavored sci fi tail about there 553 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: being habitats and ships uh in the atmosphere of Venus, 554 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: like I think, as princesses and all. So it's you know, 555 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: very kind of Edgar Rice Burrows and its presentation. Okay, 556 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: cool swashbuckling, Maybe I would hope for swashbuckling. Buckling. You know, 557 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: that's gotta be a sword fights on a platform over 558 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: the atmosphere of Venus. That's bad news. Yeah, I mean, 559 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: it's all part of the Golden Age zeal The atmosphere 560 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: is piranhas. Now. The cool thing about balloons on Venus 561 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: is you don't have to go to science fiction to 562 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: to think about them and to read about them. All 563 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: you have to do is look into space exploration history, 564 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: because we have sent balloons to Venus. So back in 565 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,479 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union sent its Vega mission uh to uh 566 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: to Earth's hot neighbor here. So, in addition to a lander, 567 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: Vega featured two instrumental balloons that traveled roughly thirty of 568 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: the way around the planet at an altitude of around 569 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: fifty four kilometers. Sensors in a gondola attached to these 570 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: balloons recorded such stats as pressure, temperature, vertical wind velocity 571 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: like that was apparently one of the the interesting findings 572 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: from that they got within these vertical h uh you know, 573 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: wind columns, and then you had clown particle back scatter, 574 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: ambient light level, and lightning frequency. These were essentially aerobots. Uh. Now, 575 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: they only made it thirty of the way around because 576 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: they ran out of batteries, but they provided battery power. 577 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: But they provided some interesting data before they went offline. Now, 578 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: there were other atmospheric probes from the U S and 579 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: the U s s are prior to this, but for instance, 580 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: the Pioneer Venus multiprobe, it didn't even use a parachute. 581 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: It was just like, you know, cutting down through the 582 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: atmosphere and collecting data on the way down. And we've 583 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: talked about on the show before. One of my favorite 584 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: collections of images from from space exploration is the surfaces 585 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: of Venus that were sent back by the Soviet Venera Lander. 586 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: Did the Venera Lander use a balloon to descend I was. 587 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: I don't believe so. I believe that the Vega was 588 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: the first use of balloons on on Venus. Now in 589 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: looking now, of course, parachutes are kind of an additional 590 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,240 Speaker 1: um category, uh to consider. So I was looking around 591 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: for what are some of the proposed Venus missions Venus 592 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: missions that may be undertaken in in the near or 593 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: eventual future that will feature balloons or parachutes. So I 594 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: thought I might mention a few before getting to the 595 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: one that really excites me. So, first of all, there's 596 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: not to say that these are these are these are 597 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: not all exciting because they are exciting any kind of uh, 598 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: you know, future exploration of venus is it just inherently amazing. 599 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,439 Speaker 1: But you have NASA's DA Vinci this is the Deep 600 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:46,720 Speaker 1: Atmosphere Venus Investigation of Noble Gases, Chemistry and Imaging UM. 601 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: And this one is currently shortlisted. So it's it seems 602 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: like it it may well come to pass, and and 603 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: if it does, it will entail a parachute probe that 604 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: descends through the atmosphere and collects data on the way down. Okay, 605 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: so that that one should be a big one. There's 606 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: also the Venus Inset to Explore or Vice. This is 607 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: a proposed lander that would then release a meteor a 608 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: loot meteorology balloon I believe from the surface so the 609 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: meteorology balloon would be released once the lander has made 610 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 1: it down. I might be wrong on that, but that's 611 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: the the basic idea that I'm getting from what I 612 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: was reading about it. Uh. This has been proposed since 613 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: two thousand three by the Planetary Science UH Decadel Survey. 614 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: It hasn't made the cut yet, but in the future 615 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: it may. There's also chakra in one, a proposed Indian 616 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: Space Research Organization i s r OH mission to Venus 617 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: that would likely feature a Vega esque probe. UH Schokra, 618 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: by the way, is the name for Venus in Sanskrit, 619 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: so that's where they get it. I think the name 620 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 1: like literally means uh Venus craft or something to that effect. Interesting. 621 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: Another really cool one is and I think this one 622 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: may have come upon the show before is uh Northrop 623 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: Grumming and l guards proposed mission, and it is the 624 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: Venous Atmospheric Maneuverable Platform or VAMP. It looks like a 625 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: futuristic well I would say, actually kind of best been 626 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: cloud city type airplane with with big wings going out 627 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: on the sides. Yeah, it's it's basically the cool thing 628 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: is it's kind of a an update of an idea 629 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: that Northrop Grumman has been putting out for decades, and 630 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: that is the flying wing. It is an inflatable The 631 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,439 Speaker 1: concept is an inflatable flying wing aerobot that would also 632 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: boast solar arrays on the top and it would uh 633 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: and it would use those for its power, along with 634 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: some combination of batteries and a generator that I think 635 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: have maybe not quite been developed yet. It would be 636 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 1: propeller driven and it would be fully controllable, though not 637 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: in real time. Uh. And this would be during the day. 638 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: So during the day when the sunlight is able to 639 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: power it up to full power. Uh, it would be 640 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: soaring up to altitudes of seventy kilometers above the surface, 641 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: taking advantage of the solar intensity above the clouds. And 642 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: then at night it would power down and dip down 643 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 1: to a cruising floating altitude of around fifty six kilometers. Oh, 644 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 1: that's funny. So it's nighttime floating altitude might be right 645 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: around where the phosphene was allegedly found if it wasn't found. Yeah, 646 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: and at that point it would just be cruising or 647 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: just floating. Now. Also interesting, the vamp would actually the 648 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: idea is that the VAMP would probably inflate in space 649 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: and enter the atmosphere without an aero shell, so without 650 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: this kind of sarcophagus to hold it to protect it. 651 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: Uh quote, large surface area produces benign heating loads during entry, 652 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: and this would of course all be supported by an 653 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: accompanying satellite, and the VAMP would last four months to 654 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: possibly a year, eventually losing out to the gradual loss 655 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: of the buoyant gas inside it. But wait, I think 656 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,439 Speaker 1: we're about to get to your to your real baby here, right. Yeah. 657 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: This is the one that I read a little bit 658 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: about and then I got excited and I was like, 659 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 1: oh man, this we got to go back to Venus. 660 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: And that is havoc h A v O C. This 661 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: is what's got you sending your your harassing letters to NASA, 662 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: Like do that, I do havoc now, havoc is this? 663 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: This is one of those proposed missions where you read 664 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,280 Speaker 1: about it and it's is it's it's it's as exciting 665 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: as any movie or or television show or sci fi 666 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: short story you might come across, because it's it's unique 667 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: and thrilling, and it's hard to imagine the type of 668 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: person who would do it. But you know, they exist. 669 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: I mean, this is the type of of of of 670 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: human being that goes on on a space mission. But yeah, 671 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: this is the Havoc High Altitude Venus operational concept, and 672 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: there are essentially two different versions of it. One is 673 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 1: the robotic version that would be the the necessary precursor 674 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: to the second variety, which would be a crude NASA 675 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: venous mission. So to be clear, this is a this 676 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: is a mission concept. It's not something that's like on 677 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,439 Speaker 1: track to to actually launch or be produced right now, 678 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: but it's sort of like it's on the menu of 679 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: things that could be selected for future missions. Right We 680 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: would the habit project itself, if it were to come 681 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: to pass, there would be like two or three There 682 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 1: would be multiple missions which I'll get into leading up 683 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: to humans actually going. But also it would not be 684 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: our next Venus mission. Uh. You know, under any circumstances 685 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: like this, this is something we might be able to 686 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 1: do in the future. You know, I'm embarrassed to say 687 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: I while I was reading about this, I couldn't help 688 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,879 Speaker 1: but keep thinking about There was this terrible video game. 689 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: Do you remember the Command and Conquer first person shooter? Oh? 690 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: I don't know that. I do what what what system 691 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: era was this? I think it was. I think I've 692 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: played it on PC and many many years ago. So 693 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: Commanding Conquer games are like real time strategy games. You 694 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: move all these local troops around and stuff. But they 695 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: made one game in the series that's set in the 696 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: same universe. But you play this like marine guy who 697 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: it's the first person shooter and the guy you play 698 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: is named Havoc, very cool, and everybody's like Havoc. You 699 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: you don't go off mission, you do as you're told. 700 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: It's like shoot thing general. Oh man, were you Were 701 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: you good at the real time strategy games? No? No, 702 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: because I was horrible at him. Like I wanted to 703 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: love them. They put out these these really well put 704 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: together Donald war games based on forty K stuff, and 705 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: I really wanted to love them, but I was just 706 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: terrible at them. It was just like chaos and loss 707 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: by the time I tried to play it at any level, 708 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,720 Speaker 1: just weeping and just watching the destruction of your forces 709 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: and your empires. Yeah. I've never been an elite gamer 710 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: of any kind whatsoever, So no, I'm not good at 711 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 1: that or any other type of game. It just felt 712 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: like too much multitasking. Like I. I like games where 713 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: I can be specific and strategic, where I can pause 714 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 1: and think, I get. That's why I'm I'm more of 715 00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: a a turn based strategy versus real time strategy. It's 716 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: just I'll take the turn based anytime. You're a magic 717 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: the gathering warlock. Yeah yeah, yeah not not then whatever 718 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: real time magic is. That's just too too much pressure, 719 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: all right, So so back to Havoca. Sorry, if that 720 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: was a terrible digression, we could come down. No, no, 721 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: it stays in um so basically, in essence, havoc entails 722 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,879 Speaker 1: the use of human exploration in the upper Venusian atmosphere 723 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: aboard a helium airship. So this airship would be about 724 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: a hundred or four three ft long thirty four ms 725 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: or a hundred and eleven feet tall. So as the 726 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: as it's as it's presented in one of the the 727 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: PDFs that I came across, uh from, from the people 728 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 1: putting it together, it would be about half the size 729 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: of the Hindenburg, but twice as long as sort of 730 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: your average goodyear blimp. I love that they're just reminding 731 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:03,720 Speaker 1: people of the Hindenburg in the proposal. Yeah, I wouldn't 732 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: say a zeppelin, so so very much like whatever you're 733 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 1: picturing in mind for like a blamp or a zeppelin 734 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: or airship like that's basically the initial look of what 735 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,360 Speaker 1: they've proposed, but they're gonna be some key differences as well. 736 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: So I propel propeller driven gondola on the bottom. You know, 737 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: this is the habited habitable portion of it would contain 738 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,280 Speaker 1: both an atmospheric habitat for two crew members over twenty 739 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,720 Speaker 1: eight days, along with an ascent vehicle essentially a rocket 740 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: with an ascent habitat on the front of it that 741 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: would at the end of its time in the atmosphere 742 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 1: allow the two crew members to rock it back to 743 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: the transit vehicle in low of the Venusian orbit for 744 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 1: the return trip. Oh that's interesting because so one of 745 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,720 Speaker 1: the big questions about crude missions to other planetary bodies 746 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: like Mars or something like that is, you know, how 747 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: are you going to leave the planet? Do you get 748 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: back up off? So you'd probably need to take some 749 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: kind of rocket with you that would need to be 750 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,280 Speaker 1: able to attain escape velocity. I wonder is it easier 751 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: to leave a planet if you're in the atmosphere as 752 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 1: opposed on the surface. Of course it would be easier, right, 753 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 1: You need less force less thrust to escape from there 754 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: than you would from the surface. Yeah, but it's a 755 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: different just a different scenario than you encounter thinking about 756 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: these other planets or like Mars, or are thinking about 757 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: traveling to Earth's moon for example. Because again this is 758 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: one of the crazy things. A trip like this to 759 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: Venus would not entail actually setting foot on the planet. 760 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: You would never go down to the true Venus firma. Uh, 761 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: you know you would. You would only be going into 762 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: the upper atmosphere, hanging out there for like, you know, 763 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: against some of like twenty eight days, and then returning 764 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: to low orbit from there. Yeah. It's something that's not 765 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: usually considered. Are we think of visiting other planets in 766 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: a binary You've got orbit and then you've got surface activity, 767 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: and this would be in between. It's like if you 768 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: were planning a visit to New York City, but you're 769 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,399 Speaker 1: you're you aren't gonna actually travel to Times Square. You're 770 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: gonna only limit yourself to the very outer burrows, right 771 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,240 Speaker 1: and then return home. Yeah, I just went on vacation 772 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,440 Speaker 1: to Queens. No, no disparaging Queens by the way. No. No, 773 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,919 Speaker 1: if anything, we should be disparaging times square like that. 774 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,240 Speaker 1: You shouldn't land Landing in times square is like landing 775 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,319 Speaker 1: on the surface of Venus. What were you thinking going 776 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: in that deep? You need a rocket to escape the 777 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: bubba gum shrimp. So I recommend you know, everyone look 778 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 1: up pictures of the concept, the models they've put together 779 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,279 Speaker 1: for this, because it is great. It's like this, the 780 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: gondola with the propellers. The ascent vehicle again looks very 781 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: much like a cool rocket um harnessed behind it. It's 782 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,760 Speaker 1: very neat. We In essence, we'd be talking about sending 783 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,400 Speaker 1: three habitats on the Havoc mission. So there'd be the 784 00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: transit habits habitat that the crew members would be on 785 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: the way to and from the planet Venus. This would 786 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 1: be the space habitat. There would be the and then 787 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: there would be the atmospheric habitat on the gondola that 788 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,399 Speaker 1: would be where they'd spend in their twenty eight days 789 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,839 Speaker 1: and then or less, depending on how it goes. And 790 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,759 Speaker 1: then the ascent habitat is the one on the front 791 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 1: of that rocket, just to get them back up into orbit, 792 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: so they can get back into the transit habitat and 793 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 1: return home. Well, I gotta say that does sound complicated. 794 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: I think that I have a lot of moving pieces 795 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: like that. You introduce increasing difficulty into the mission, right, yeah, 796 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: because in all the mission would see the ship arrive 797 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: at Venus, then drop an airship from low Venusian orbit 798 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,279 Speaker 1: on a parachute, okay, parachutes in towards the upper atmosphere. 799 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,399 Speaker 1: It's gonna drop its aeroshell, it's protective sarcophagus. It's gonna 800 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: then unferral and inflate the helium blimp. It's going to 801 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,279 Speaker 1: drop the parachute altogether and um, and it's going to 802 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: carry out atmospheric activities are up to twenty eight days. 803 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: Then when the time comes to leave, the two crew 804 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,360 Speaker 1: members hopping the ascent vehicle returned to low Venusian orbit, 805 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: leaving the airship to continue on for the duration of 806 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: its life. Uh in the Venusian atmosphere. They get back 807 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: in the transit vehicle and they return back to Earth. 808 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: I hope the airship would get to send pictures back 809 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,280 Speaker 1: as it sinks down into the atmosphere gradually over time. 810 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: I assume that would be part of it, you know, 811 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,760 Speaker 1: sort of using every part of the buffalo on the mission, 812 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, like planning out exactly what it's going to 813 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,319 Speaker 1: do for the rest of its life. Now they see 814 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: this being ultimately there being five phases to this branch 815 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: of of Venus exploration. So Phase one would be a 816 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,640 Speaker 1: robotic version of the same concept, just obviously do it 817 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: without people and see how feasible it is. Phase two 818 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: would be a thirty day mission to bring the crew 819 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: to orbit around Venus, but then not deal with the 820 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: atmosphere at all. Phase three would be a thirty day 821 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,440 Speaker 1: mission to bring the crew to the atmosphere, and this 822 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: would be the model we just discussed. Phase four, they 823 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,479 Speaker 1: touch on, would be a version that entails a one 824 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: year voyage in the atmosphere, so like the next this 825 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: is like the stretch goal for this particular project. And 826 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: then ultimately Phase five would be the Grinspoon Special, a 827 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: permanent human presence in Gondola habitats um up there in 828 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: the upper atmosphere of Venus, hopefully small enough that you 829 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,279 Speaker 1: don't fall under the jurisdiction of the Empire at all. 830 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,280 Speaker 1: So so advocates of this mission, and just Venus missions 831 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 1: in general, they point out that the Venus has an 832 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: induced magnetosphere from the interaction of its thick atmosphere with 833 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,399 Speaker 1: the solar wind, and it's nearer proximity to the Sun 834 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: brings it further within the Sun's magnetic field, so there's 835 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 1: arguably less of a cosmic radiation risk compared to Mars. 836 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: It's also easier to get to, making it, by some estimates, 837 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:54,239 Speaker 1: an ideal first step in reaching Mars Um. Now this, 838 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,759 Speaker 1: I don't know. You may be getting into a little 839 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: like Team Venus versus Team Marsh competition here, something that 840 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: Grinspa was talking about. You know, the legitimate rivalries there. Yeah, 841 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: but um, you know, but the shortest possible distance from 842 00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: Earth to Venus is something like thirty eight million kilometers 843 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,839 Speaker 1: versus fifty six million kilometers for Mars, and a year 844 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 1: on Venus is much shorter, so you know, Christmas comes 845 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:23,120 Speaker 1: earlier there. Yeah. The again we have to do have 846 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: to stress though HAVOC as well as stuff like VAMP 847 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,879 Speaker 1: very much just mission concepts at this point. It's nothing 848 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: on the books. Da Vinci I think is gonna probably 849 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 1: be the project that gets the NOD next We'll see 850 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: how it goes. But either way, Venus missions are only 851 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,000 Speaker 1: an option every nineteen months, because I mentioned that the 852 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 1: closest distance we've touched on this before. Like, if you're 853 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,360 Speaker 1: talking about going to know to another planet, it depends 854 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,279 Speaker 1: on where Earth is in relation to that planet, how 855 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: long of a journey you're talking and you want, of course, 856 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: uh calculated so that you're making the shortest voyage possible 857 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,919 Speaker 1: to reach that other planet. Yeah. Yeah. So as somebody 858 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: who feels a lot of sympathy for the Venus partisans 859 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,839 Speaker 1: and the rivalries between the planetary scientists, I uh, I 860 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 1: hope that the study from September of this year and 861 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: and all the subsequent research, whether it turns out that 862 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,279 Speaker 1: there's good evidence for the presence of the phosphine gas 863 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,280 Speaker 1: or not, I hope this at least spurs more attention 864 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,719 Speaker 1: to Venus, Like it gets more unscrewed admissions there at 865 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,880 Speaker 1: least um to awaken the hunger for Venus knowledge among 866 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: the people generally. Yeah, yeah, just to build public interest 867 00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,640 Speaker 1: in Venus, like it's a strange and and exciting planet 868 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: and and missions like I feel like Havoc Alone should 869 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,799 Speaker 1: be one of these programs that everyone should look at 870 00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,120 Speaker 1: because it makes me more excited about about Venus to 871 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:47,320 Speaker 1: just even think about people, can you can you imagine 872 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,040 Speaker 1: can you imagine the footage much less being there like 873 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,839 Speaker 1: that's that's a step too far from me to be 874 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,320 Speaker 1: imagine being aboard this vessel in the within the skies 875 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,040 Speaker 1: or kind of over the clouds of an alien world. 876 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,320 Speaker 1: But just see the footage of that, that journey, that 877 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,200 Speaker 1: would be amazing. Totally agree. I can't wait to see 878 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,920 Speaker 1: where we where we go from here? Yeah? Is that 879 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,840 Speaker 1: the end? If we're if we're the doorways? Is it 880 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,840 Speaker 1: time to close ourselves on the way out? I guess 881 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,880 Speaker 1: it is. Yeah. Obviously we could talk more about Venus 882 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,960 Speaker 1: and and I hope we do talk more about Venus. Uh, 883 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 1: you know, maybe maybe we can we can get get 884 00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,120 Speaker 1: Grinspin back on the program to talk about it. I 885 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: know he discussed potentially writing more about Venus. That book 886 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,000 Speaker 1: that he wrote about Venus came out many years ago, 887 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,280 Speaker 1: so he's probably overdue for re exploration totally. In the meantime, 888 00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from everyone out there, Um, what 889 00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: are your thoughts about Venus Venus Exploration or some of 890 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,200 Speaker 1: the missions we've talked about here. What are your thoughts 891 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 1: about the possibility of life in Venus. Do you have 892 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:48,800 Speaker 1: other examples of of early science fictional visions of balloons 893 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,879 Speaker 1: in the atmosphere of Venus? Uh? Let us know. We'd 894 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,840 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Likewise, just space science in 895 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 1: general and other planets. Uh. Would you like us to 896 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,880 Speaker 1: do more episodes like this in the future. Is there 897 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,279 Speaker 1: a particular planet that we have not journeyed to that 898 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,520 Speaker 1: you would like us to visit? Reach out to us 899 00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,919 Speaker 1: and let us know. Uh. In the meantime, just rate, 900 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,400 Speaker 1: review and subscribe the show wherever you get the ability 901 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,239 Speaker 1: to do so. And if, oh, if you go to 902 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:16,839 Speaker 1: stuff to bow your mind dot com, that will take 903 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,320 Speaker 1: you over to our I heart listing for the show. 904 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 1: And there's a button there or listing there somewhere you 905 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,560 Speaker 1: can click on store and that will take you over 906 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 1: to our T shirt shop. 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