1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Lefts That Podcast. 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: My guest today is guitarist extraordinary Eric Johnson. Eric, you 3 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: posted instructional videos on YouTube during COVID. Tell me about that. 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: Well, it was kind of a crazy time, and so, 5 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: you know, with everybody being kind of insulated, I thought 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: what could I do to help? And I just thought 7 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: doing all these lessons and asking people to contribute to 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: the food bank because I'm you know, hearing about people 9 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: not being able to eat. I mean, it's just like man, 10 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: you know, so I thought, well, that's a little something 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: I can do, and it kind of gives way to like, well, 12 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: what else can you do? You know what? What can 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: you keep doing? You know, and because a lot of 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: people are struggling, you know, so I just tried to 15 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 2: do something and it's something that people could get something 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: out of, you know. 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: Okay, So when you make a lesson, what goes through 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: your mind? What do you want to teach? 19 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: Well when I did, I did a series of twenty 20 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: nine lessons for that, and basically I just tried to 21 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: impart the little pieces of the puzzle that helped me 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: garner and and create my style. Am I playing or 23 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 2: my concept of music. And so I tried to keep 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: it in little encapsulated pieces. I'm like, oh, you know, 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: and they usually were only like two minutes three minutes long, 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: and I would show an example, and I would just 27 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 2: show like a little thing each time, like oh, here's 28 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: how you hold the pick, here's how you touch the string, 29 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: and here's your intention philosophy or you know, all just 30 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: all the different apertures of how to make music. And 31 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: so I just try to leave it in little tiny 32 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: mintory vignette chapters and did twenty nine of them and stuff. 33 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, for those who haven't seen them, give us 34 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: an example. 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I would do one like on, here's 36 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: how I hold the pick, you know, and here's how 37 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: I strike the string, And then I would play a 38 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: little piece of music showing that. I would sometimes I say, well, 39 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: here's if you don't quite strike it correctly in my opinion, 40 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: and here's when you strike it correctly, and I'd show 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: the difference in how it would sound, or how fretting 42 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 2: the instrument makes it different, the sweet spot of how 43 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: you use your hand to fret the instrument. Like violin players, 44 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: they want to really have a positive intent in their 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: contact of the string to help their tone. It comes 46 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: from both the picking and from the fretting. And or 47 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 2: I do one on muting, which is it's kind of like, 48 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 2: you know, when you paint, you paint all this stuff, 49 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 2: but then there's all the stuff you don't paint that 50 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: creates the velocity of stuff you do paint. So when 51 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 2: you're playing an instrument, you play the instrument, but then 52 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 2: you have to mute and basically turn off all the 53 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: parts that you're not playing. So that means you have 54 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: to use your hands to mute the strings where you're 55 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: not playing, so that you can provide a purity to 56 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: the notes that you are playing. It's kind of like 57 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 2: muting the space between the notes, you know, so it's 58 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: cleaner and pure sounding. 59 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: Well, guitar playing, is it nature or nurture? 60 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: Wow, that's a good question. I think that anything people 61 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 2: do in life, if they have a passion or an 62 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: interest or they a connection with it, then they automatically 63 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: have interest and enthusiasm and more galore to get out 64 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: there and go for it, you know. But I think 65 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: there's a people, maybe a certain talent that's intrinsic in them. 66 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: But I think it's mostly purported by your interest in 67 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: your just dedication because you love doing it, you know. 68 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: So how did you pick up the guitar? 69 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: When I was three years old? My my, this is 70 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: many many years ago. My dad had some you know, 71 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: back in the days before cable TV. He's like, he 72 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: built a fifty foot antenna outside and he had some 73 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: gentleman come over to help him set it in concrete 74 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 2: and stuff. And at the end of it, one of 75 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: the men named Marris Young, he got out of guitar 76 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: and plugged in outside and we had a little party 77 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: because oh they finished the TV now you know, the 78 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: area or whatever, and he's playing all this Elmore James 79 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: and Jimmy Reid stuff, this distorted tone. I was just like, 80 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 2: oh my god, that's just an incredible sound. But soon 81 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: after that I started taking piano lists, and so I 82 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: kind of set aside the interest in guitar and just 83 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: studied piano for seven years. But and then I really 84 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: got back into guitar when I was eleven, because that's 85 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 2: when the you know, my brother had a friend named 86 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 2: Bobby Spiller that played guitar, and he brought his band 87 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: over and they're doing all these Adventures tunes and really 88 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: early pop tunes like in sixty four sixty five, and 89 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: I just was really enamored with it. 90 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: Okay, piano, to what degree do your skills remain and 91 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: to what degree can you still read music? Well? 92 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: I can read music. I'm a pretty poor reader, mostly 93 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: because I don't keep it up, but I usually kind 94 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 2: of learned by ear. I still play piano, and I 95 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 2: play piano a little bit live, especially if I do 96 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: like solo acoustic tours, but I usually play a considerable 97 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: amount of keyboards on my records, and I love piano. 98 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 2: Piano is kind of like my favorite first instrument, even 99 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: though I'm not a great pianist by any means, but 100 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: I have the potential inside me to kind of understand it. 101 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: So I try to push myself and do it as 102 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: good a job as I can on playing it. 103 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, at this late date, there's so many different 104 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: kinds of keyboards with different sounds from rolling, there are synthesizers. 105 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: Are you also a fan and do you delve into that? 106 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: Are you more of a purist? 107 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: I like acoustic piano mostly so usually when I if 108 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: I do use it live, I'll try to find a 109 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 2: really good synth that has a very nice natural acoustic 110 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: grand piano sound, and every once in a while I'll 111 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 2: use like a Fender road setting, but mostly I just 112 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: go for just a natural sound. And when I do 113 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: the solo acoustic tours, I'll actually use a grand piano. 114 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: We'll just mike it. But I like synthesizers and everything 115 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 2: to do. It's just not really something I've gotten into. 116 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: Okay, so your brother starts playing, how much was it 117 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: the Ventures? Because if you go back there, there was 118 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: really a line of demarcation between The Ventures, the Four Seasons, 119 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: the Beach Boys, and all of a sudden January sixty four, 120 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: the Beatles come along. So how influential for you was 121 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: the British invasion in the Beatles? 122 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 2: Oh? It was huge. It was huge. It was just 123 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 2: like this incredible new entrance of music and people's personas 124 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: and lifestyle and stuff, and it was fascinating. I think 125 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: that no matter what I took in, it was always 126 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 2: I always was really looking for guitar stuff at that point. 127 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: I was just just had an insatiable desire to learn 128 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: more about guitars. So, you know, originally I think Nooki 129 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: Edwards of The Ventures was a huge hero and somebody 130 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: I learned to play from. I would just pick out 131 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: his records note for note, and then then I got 132 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: into the Yardbirds with Jeff Beck and you know John 133 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: may On, the Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton, and just 134 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: sit and learn learn it note for note, which is 135 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: I think a great ongoing chapter in somebody's evolution, you know, 136 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: to copy. I mean I remember when I was a 137 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: kid playing starting to play shows, and everybody's like, oh, 138 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: you're just playing exactly like you know, Eric Clapton or 139 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: But I think I encourage kids to do that because 140 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 2: that's how you are able to study that screen of 141 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: expertise of how somebody does what they do, and then 142 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: you you you go from that. You don't want to 143 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: stay there. It's just, you know, you want to be 144 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: your own person, your own own artists. But I think 145 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: it's just a valuable step. So that's what I did. 146 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 2: Those were the guys that started me. But I liked 147 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 2: the Beatles, I mean in the Rolling Stones. I loved 148 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 2: Brian Jones, like the early early early Rolling Stone stuff. 149 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: Okay, back in those days when we all picked up 150 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: the guitar, the big thing we did was we put 151 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: on the record and we kept dropping the needle. We 152 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: might slow the record down. Is that how you learn 153 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: the notes? 154 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: Or Yeah, it's way different than nowadays. If you got 155 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: into a really hard lick a ope, okay, put it 156 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: on sixteen. I can't play that fast, and then you'd 157 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: have to like think in your mind, okay, I'm going 158 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 2: to transpose that up to octaves or whatever. Yeah, it's 159 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: a way different day than nowadays. It's like that four 160 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 2: minute mile thing, you know. And as we have more 161 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: and more we go forward. I mean, you know, if 162 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: you look at people and what they do a motocross 163 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 2: where they jump up in the air and they flip 164 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: the bike and they flip themselves but they're not even 165 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: connected to the bike. Then they come back and they 166 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 2: joined the bike and do that. I mean like forty 167 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 2: years ago, fifty years ago, that's not possible, but you 168 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: know it's possible now, you know, with the you know, 169 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: the advent of computers and people being able to slow 170 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 2: stuff down and just you know, completely dissect something on 171 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 2: a sonic level. It is really it's a faster learning process. 172 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: I think. 173 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: And did you ever take lessons? 174 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 2: I took piano lessons for seven years, and I took 175 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 2: guitar lessons for two or three months and I got 176 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: in trouble for something I did. I don't know exactly 177 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: I can what was it did, but my parents grounded 178 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: me and they said, okay, we're grounding you and we're 179 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: taking away your guitar lessons, which I was like, oh no, God, 180 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: don't do that, you know, because but what i'd and 181 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 2: so what it forced me to do, said, well, I 182 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 2: can play piano. So I sat down with the guitar 183 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: and the piano, and I started hitting the notes on 184 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: the piano and I would find him on the guitar 185 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 2: and I would just one by one find all the 186 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: notes on the guitar on each string as relating to 187 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 2: the piano. So I and then I realized there was 188 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: a symmetry there, and then I was say, oh, I see, 189 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 2: so all I got to do is transfer that over 190 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: here and then I can kind of look at the 191 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: guitar from a musical standpoint. 192 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: Okay, but there's some basic things, you know, making a 193 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: g chord, which fingers you use, slide which fingers you used? 194 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: Did you just stumble in or someone say no, this 195 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: is the way to do it. 196 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 2: Well, I had a friend named Jimmy Shade who was 197 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 2: ahead of me on guitar, and he would come over. 198 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 2: He was about three years older than me, and he 199 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 2: was playing in bands and stuff, and he'd come over 200 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 2: and show me a lot of stuff, and he had 201 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 2: a great ear. He could pick anything off a record. 202 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 2: And so between me just trying on my own and 203 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 2: him showing me stuff, I was able to kind of 204 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 2: just keep going forward. 205 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: And at this late date, if I play you a record, 206 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: how long will it take you to learn that record? 207 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: What depends on the piece of music, But it's I'm 208 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: able to do that. Just sit and, you know, work 209 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 2: on it and learn it. 210 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're playing guitar. What guitar are you using? 211 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 2: Well, it's my very first guitar ever played, probably when 212 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: I was just turned eleven. Was went over with my 213 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: dad to a friend of his and they had a 214 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,719 Speaker 2: little stell Acoustic and they let me borrow it for 215 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: a few weeks, and my first song I learned was 216 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: Your Cheating Heart. But then I had to give the 217 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,719 Speaker 2: Stella back. But because I was so enamored with the 218 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: ventures I was, I pleaded with my dad that I 219 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: could get an electric guitar. So we went down to JR. 220 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: Reid Music in downtown Austin and he bought me a 221 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 2: white Fender. Well he we got on loan a Fender 222 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 2: music master, took it home and it was I guess 223 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 2: my dad was playing on the buy it, but it 224 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 2: was kind of like he was like, I don't know it, 225 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: we'll check it out. And I was. It was sitting 226 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 2: on the bed and I was jumping up and down 227 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: the bed and the guitar fell over on the ground 228 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: and put a big scratch on it, and my dad said, oh, well, 229 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: I guess we have to buy it now. And that's 230 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: how that I got the guitar. I don't know if 231 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: he was playing, if that was, I don't know how 232 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: that all went. But he was kind of like, hey, 233 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: you put a big scratch on us, and now I 234 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: guess we had to buy it. But that's how I 235 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: got the guitar. 236 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: And what do you do for the amplifier? 237 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 2: You know what? I did not have an amplifier, but 238 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: we had a voice of music tape recorder, and I 239 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: found out that if you put in record play and 240 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: then you put it in pause, you're putting it into 241 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 2: a monitor position. Although it's not running the tape, but 242 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 2: it would monitor whatever he did, and then I would 243 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 2: plug the It had guitar jacks on its I'd plug 244 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: that and it actually had a killer tone, and I'd 245 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: just crank up the tape recorder and sit there and 246 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 2: play through it. And I actually blew the speakers in 247 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 2: the tape recorder, which is kind of crazy. But that 248 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: was my first amplifier thing until my dad and I 249 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 2: were we were at a shopping center in Austin and 250 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 2: there was this tiny little music store and right in 251 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: the window they had this huge Fender Deluxe amp for 252 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: seventy five bucks. I remember that, and my dad bought 253 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: that for me, So that was my first I was 254 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: probably about twelve when I got that amp, and I 255 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 2: finally I finally got an amp. 256 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: And do you still have that guitar in that amp? 257 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: No, that would be so cool to have that. You know, 258 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 2: it's like your toys from when you're five years old, 259 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 2: you know, you think about them, Ah, that would be 260 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 2: You don't realize those little things in life are so big, 261 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: so important, so much more important than all the big 262 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: facade of all this. Ah, that's this and that or 263 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 2: you know this this is the little things that means something, 264 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: But no, I don't. 265 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: Okay. So you're growing up in the late fifties and sixties, 266 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: you're in Austin. Austin has always been the weird part 267 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: of Texas. What was it like growing up then in Austin. 268 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: Well, I didn't realize at the time, but it was 269 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: a beautiful place because it had an influx of so 270 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: many styles of music, namely country, but there were blues 271 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: artists coming through there, and there was a lot of 272 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: clubs playing rock music. And there was just a lot 273 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: of live music, which proceeded why I got the name 274 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: Live Musical Capital of the World. It was amazing how 275 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: much there was going on there, and it was all different, 276 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: and of course you had the cage and influence, and 277 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: by the time I was getting serious about guitar, there 278 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: was just all sorts of things to you know, people 279 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: to go see. There was I learned to play a 280 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: lot by Johnny Richardson from Georgetown Medical Band. I'd go 281 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: hear him every Tuesday night at the Jade Room because 282 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: he was just a wonderful player, one of the great 283 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: rock players, and him and Jim Mings and John Stahley 284 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 2: were just the great players of Austin during that time, 285 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: and I'd just like admire these guys and go here 286 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 2: and play, and you know, they'd kind of let me 287 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: sneak in in the back when I was fourteen and 288 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: hear these people. But it was amazing. I remember the 289 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 2: first time I went to LA when I was like nineteen, 290 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: I was like, where are all the live clubs? There 291 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: seemed to be less there as far as rock music 292 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: than there was in the central part of Texas, but 293 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: just a lot going on there. 294 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. So what did your parents do for a living? 295 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: My dad was a MD. He was an antesthesiologist, and 296 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: my mom was a housewife. 297 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: And how many kids in the family. 298 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 2: There's five of us, And where are you in the hierarchy? 299 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: I'm the youngest, you're the youngest. Yeah, do you get 300 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: any advantage? 301 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: Usually the youngest. They're very leaning with the young Yah. 302 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if I got a 303 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: lot of any advantage, but it was you know, my 304 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: mom was very supportive of the music because she was like, 305 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: whatever makes you happy, and my dad, I think initially 306 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: was not because he was worried when he saw I 307 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: got so serious about it. Coming from being a doctor 308 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: and and rightly, so you know, it's like all of 309 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 2: a sudden, you start growing your hair out and lose 310 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: interest a little bit in pursuing school and want to 311 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: play rock music. I can see how, you know, because 312 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: you know, no parent knows, Oh yeah, it's okay, because 313 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: he's going to do okay, you know, they don't know. 314 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 2: And but later later when he saw that things were okay, 315 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: I think he became supportive about it. 316 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: And so you get really into music. You go to 317 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: public school or private school. 318 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 2: I went to public school until tenth grade, and then 319 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: I went to a private school that's no longer here, 320 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: but it was called Holy Cross High School. And one 321 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: of the main reasons is because they would let you 322 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: grow your hair long. You didn't have could you could 323 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 2: drink cokes and class and it was kind of just 324 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 2: real liberal kind of school where at that time, I 325 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: guess a lot you know, kids might not understand now, 326 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: but there used to be a dress code and your 327 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: hair couldn't be too long. And I was like, oh man, 328 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 2: I can't do that. I got to go to I'm 329 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 2: going to go to this private school so I can 330 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: grow my hair out. 331 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, you're doing that. What are your four older siblings doing. 332 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: Well, my brother he was he had already started college 333 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: and at one point he went into the Navy for 334 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 2: ten years and was on nuclear subs and stuff. My 335 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 2: other sisters, well, one of them got married young and 336 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: moved to Alaska, and the other two went to college. 337 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: One became a CPA and one became a nurse. 338 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so you were in school. Are you known as 339 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: the guy who plays the guitar? 340 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 2: Well, a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I would play a 341 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 2: little bit at talent shows and stuff. There was in 342 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 2: in junior high school there were there was a gown 343 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: named Marina Jenkins and me. Uh, we were probably the 344 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: only two people playing guitar at that time in junior 345 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: high And I think I played a little bit at 346 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: talent shows and but yeah. 347 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: Well, were you the type of kid who picked up 348 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: the guitar and then suddenly stopped playing sports and stopped 349 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: hanging with their friends and was practicing for five hours 350 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: a day. What were you like? 351 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is what happened. I was really I was. Yeah, 352 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: I just never really did sports. I mean I loved 353 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 2: you know, uh, swimming and water skiing and and and 354 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 2: stuff on my own outside of school, But I didn't 355 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: really pursue sports in school. By that time, I was 356 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 2: so immersed in music. I would just I remember in 357 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 2: ninth grade, I just tried to race home so I 358 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 2: could see where the action is on TV. You know. 359 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: That was at three point thirty and I got out 360 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 2: of school like at three fifteen, so I had to 361 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: run home. I wanted to see that. But by that 362 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: point I was so immersed in guitar that you know, 363 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: And there's two sides to everything. I think I missed 364 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: a lot of high school. You know, I don't mean 365 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: physically missed it, just you know, just my heart wasn't 366 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: in it, and you know, your heart can be it 367 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: in different ways. It didn't necessarily mean the subjects, but 368 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 2: you know, just people and getting to know people and 369 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 2: just having the experience of that community of even when 370 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 2: you're a kid. But I think I was so just 371 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: transfixed by music that I would I just kind of 372 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 2: was a little bit absent as far as I would 373 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: just sit in school waiting for it to be over. 374 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: You know. Okay, so what point did you start playing 375 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: in bands and what did that look like? Well? 376 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 2: I started when I was I remember when I was 377 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 2: like twelve, I played in this band called The ID, 378 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: but we and I didn't even know what the name meant. 379 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: The bass player named the ID, but we never really 380 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: played any game. I think we might have played one gig. 381 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 2: But after that, when I was thirteen, I played in 382 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 2: a copy band called The Sounds Alive, and you know, 383 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 2: my parents would come to some of the shows and 384 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 2: I'd try to not fall asleep because some of the 385 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: gigs went late, but that it was an interesting experience. 386 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 2: But on vacation, I think I did that till I 387 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,719 Speaker 2: was fourteen. I went on vacation to Alaska with my 388 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: parents for a month, which was really wonderful to go 389 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: to Alaska. And when I came back, the rhythm guitarists 390 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: had gotten better, and while I was gone, they said, well, 391 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: we're firing you because the rhythm guitars has gotten better 392 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 2: and he's learned how to play Jeff's boogie and we 393 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 2: don't need two guitars. So I got fired from that group. 394 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 2: And that's when I started just practicing more on my own, 395 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: and I met a drummer named Vince Marioni and I 396 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 2: entered a group that he led. When I was about 397 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,959 Speaker 2: late fourteen or fifteen years old, and we started working together. 398 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: Okay, so take me up to graduating from high school. Well, I. 399 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 2: When I was in tenth and eleventh grade, Vince and 400 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 2: I played together with Jimmy Bullock and we did this 401 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 2: and Jay Aaron we played around, opened for some famous 402 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: groups and we're doing quite well. But I guess after 403 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 2: that kind of that kind of was not. It kind 404 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 2: of went into kind of an idle thing, and I 405 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: just started kind of working on my own until I 406 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: met Yeah. I was just kind of jamming with people 407 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 2: and doing all sorts of odds. And I was playing 408 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: in another copy band when I was in twelfth grade, 409 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 2: but didn't really want to do that too much. I 410 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: didn't really enjoy it that very much. And right after 411 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 2: twelfth grade is when I met the Electromagnets, which is 412 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 2: Kyle Brock and Bill Maddox and Steve Barber, and I 413 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: joined their group because they were really inspired by Chick 414 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: coreas him of the Seventh Galaxy Record with Bill Connors, 415 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 2: and so that's what we started playing jazz fusion stuff 416 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: right after I graduated from high school. 417 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: So you graduate from high school, what's the dream at 418 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: that point and what about college. 419 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: Well, I tried college. I took two classes, embarrassing to admit. 420 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 2: The first one was calculus. I went to one class 421 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 2: when I can't do this, And the other one was 422 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 2: astronomy because I was interested in astronomy, and I did. 423 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 2: I completed the class and almost made an A. I 424 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 2: think I made like an eighty nine or something. I 425 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: almost made an A minus in it. But I found 426 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 2: it very interesting, and I like astronomy. But I don't know. 427 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 2: I just decided, you know, I just want to I 428 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: think I'm going to learn music. And the guys in 429 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 2: the Electromagnets had gone to music school and they were 430 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 2: kind of ahead of me as far as knowing music theory. 431 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: So I was learning from them and I just decided 432 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 2: that that's the way I wanted to go, you know, 433 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 2: life experiences. And we just started going on the road 434 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 2: and playing anywhere we could get a gig. 435 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so it's like more than fifteen years before you 436 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: get your first record deal with Warner Repues. You know 437 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: what's happening in that fifteen years. 438 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 2: Well, we started the Electromagnets, that configuration of it. We 439 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 2: just started playing and playing playing, you know, our manager, 440 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 2: Park Street put out Electromagnet record, but we kind of 441 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 2: put it on our own because we really couldn't get 442 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: anybody else to put it out. And we did fairly 443 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 2: well with it, and the gigs got better and better. 444 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 2: At some point we just kind of disbanded started doing 445 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,719 Speaker 2: different things, and I guess that was, like, you know, 446 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 2: seventy six. I just I said, well, I'll just kind 447 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: of put my own group together. And oddly enough though, 448 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: I'd rehired the drummer and bass player from Lectro Mantis 449 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 2: to when they were available to just do this trio 450 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 2: of my own band. And I just started playing around 451 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 2: and playing these pop tunes and singing and some of 452 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: it was kind of like not great, but some of 453 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 2: it had was pretty good. But I just started playing 454 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 2: clubs around Austin and that grew a little bit to 455 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 2: where we started having people coming out, and it's just 456 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: you know, and then the configuration changed all the time. 457 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 2: Drummer Steve Meta, bass player Rob Alexander, it just kind 458 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 2: of different. People would get together and play with me 459 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: and just started trying to grow that audience. And I 460 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 2: think it's, uh, it just was years and years of 461 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: doing that and trying to get something going, and of 462 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: course I signed with a manager in Texas. I had 463 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: offers to sign with a manager in New York and 464 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 2: one in Texas, and Nat Weiss was in New York 465 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 2: and he took me to New York and I got 466 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: to meet all these people like James Taylor and John 467 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 2: McLauchlin and Lenny White, and that's where I met Kat 468 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: Stevens and where I got to work with Kat on 469 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 2: his record a couple of records after that. But at 470 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 2: the manager in Texas was really want me to sign 471 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 2: with and for some reason I decided, well, I'll come 472 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 2: back to Texas and sign with this this person, and 473 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, that's just kind of the 474 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 2: way I did that. And then that turned into interesting 475 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 2: situation where it's all subjective. You know, we made I 476 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 2: made a record called Seven Worlds, and yeah, it's kind 477 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 2: of had to go through the gateway of the manager 478 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 2: to decide what to do and what not to do 479 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 2: should it come out, should it not come out. So 480 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: I just had it was a kind of a waiting 481 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: game for years until I tried to get out of 482 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 2: the deal. 483 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: How'd you finally get out of the deal. 484 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 2: Well, I had a lawyer, and it was I just 485 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: just wanted to, yeah, just to go my own way 486 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: because it didn't seem like things were quite working out, 487 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 2: you know. But it can get complicated sometimes because it 488 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 2: is subjected. Somebody puts money into you and they think 489 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,959 Speaker 2: they're doing the right thing, and you're sitting around waiting 490 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: for something to happen. I think there's a lot of 491 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 2: people in history when you know it's I think it's 492 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: important and for kids to you know, to remember that. 493 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 2: You know, you start your trajectory of music first off, 494 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: there'll never be something more important than just doing the 495 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 2: music and turning people on. You know, you get in 496 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 2: your head, I'll want to get the record deal or 497 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 2: I want to have more people out there, but no, 498 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 2: it ends up turned out when you look at it, 499 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 2: you go, that's not the important stuff. The thing is 500 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 2: just enjoying playing for other people. But at the time, 501 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 2: you know, you're, oh, you know, you're so you know, 502 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 2: you want this, this and that and get that record 503 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 2: deal whatever. But I think that it's important, you know, 504 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 2: Like I heard the story of like Loretta Lynn. You know, 505 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 2: when plan A fails, you go to plan B. If 506 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 2: plan bevitan't why you go to clans Cee. She sold 507 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 2: records out of her trunk, you know, because nobody wanted 508 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 2: to hut, you know what I mean. It's like, so 509 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 2: I think that's what I ran into. You know, you 510 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: get into a thing where all got to wait for 511 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 2: this record, especially in that time. It's different now, but 512 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: in that time, oh, you got to get signed to 513 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: you know, Sony Records or whoever. And you can sit 514 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 2: around on the chair at the soda fountain waiting to 515 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 2: be discovered to be the next star, you know, and 516 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 2: your life can pass by. You know. The thing is 517 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 2: you got to go to plan B and C, which 518 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 2: means just put out the record yourself, you know, build staircase, 519 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 2: your thing. And so what I saw that I was 520 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 2: not getting anything going at the time, and it was 521 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 2: just not working out. We're getting a lot of rejections, 522 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 2: and I was like, well, let's just do what we can. 523 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 2: Let's go to Plan B. But you have to filter 524 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 2: that through other people going no, no, we got to 525 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 2: wait for the big pie in the sky or whatever. 526 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 2: But so it was just a lot of waiting game 527 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 2: until you just get enough interest to where somebody goes, okay, 528 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 2: we got to take a look at this person, because 529 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: they've got something going on. 530 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: You know, let's go back. How did that waste find you? 531 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: He saw a video of electro Magnets playing. We did 532 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 2: a show. There was a studio TV show in Atlanta 533 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 2: in like nineteen seventy five or six of us just 534 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: playing on It is called maybe Soundstage or something, and 535 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 2: it was it was a popular video TV show in Atlanta, 536 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 2: and we were one of the guests on one of 537 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: the TV shows. And he saw it and he called 538 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: me and asked me to come to New York. And 539 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: Nat had worked with Brian Epstein and stuff with the Beatles, 540 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: and he was quite a well known lawyer that had 541 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 2: kind of branched. He had come up with this record 542 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 2: label called Nimperor Records, And so I went up there and. 543 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, they had Andy Pratt, there were other axity mean, 544 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: yeah that's his label. Yeah, but you go and you 545 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: have this brush with fame, and then you go back 546 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: to Austin and it's like you're in your own world again, 547 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: or you know, is anybody ever calling you in that interim? 548 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting. I It's just I guess 549 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: it's you know, it's the way it worked out. But 550 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: the person they wanted to come back to that, I 551 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 2: don't know. You got to come back to Texas. It's 552 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 2: going to be great, great, great, great great great, And 553 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 2: you know, maybe they meant well and maybe they had 554 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: a vision. I don't really know, but I'm the one, 555 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: you know that that's to come back. 556 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: You know. 557 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 2: I could have said, no, I'll just stay up here 558 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 2: with see what happens with Nett Whist and stand New York. 559 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 2: But so when I did come back to Austin, it 560 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 2: was then and things kind of slowed down, you know, 561 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: because we had that we had some velocity and we 562 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 2: were playing gigs and drawing hundreds of people and stuff 563 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 2: and it was going great. But I kind of just waiting, 564 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: you know, for that next move, you know, but that 565 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 2: move had to be just uh designated by someone else, 566 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 2: you know, and that then you can get frustrating sometimes. 567 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're living in Austin, you're making any money, 568 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: you're living at home, you screeping buy what's going on? 569 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: No? I actually I I was able to kind of 570 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: uh yeah, which is kind of irony, I think back. 571 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: I don't know exactly how I did it, because I 572 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 2: was playing this original music, and I was able to 573 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 2: make enough money to to make rent and get by. 574 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I wasn't making a lot of money by 575 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 2: a stretch, but I was able to survive, which was 576 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 2: kind of a blessing in itself when you know you 577 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 2: don't really have you know, you're not a super high 578 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: statue of artist, but you're able to play your own 579 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: music and go around play gigs. But I was able 580 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: to do. 581 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: Okay, And do you ever think of giving up? 582 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,479 Speaker 2: I never thought about giving up playing. 583 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: Now. 584 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 2: I guess I got frustrated with what to do or 585 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 2: how to do things to get things rolling better. But no, 586 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 2: I just I enjoyed it too much, I think, and 587 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 2: the enjoyment is what got me through, regardless of what 588 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 2: happened with the career stuff. 589 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: Okay, So meanwhile, as you're doing varying thing, music itself 590 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: is going through a lot of changes. We have the 591 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: guitar heroes of the late sixties, we have prog rock 592 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: in the seventies. We have corporate rack, we have disco. 593 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: I mean, are you living your own world? Are you saying, well, 594 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: where do I fit in with these other genres? 595 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think I just did whatever I wanted to do. 596 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 2: I'm sure it had an influence on me, but I didn't. 597 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 2: I didn't feel any pressure to try to mimic or 598 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 2: get with the times or anything. I just wanted to 599 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,479 Speaker 2: just do whatever I felt like doing guitar, you know, 600 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: as far as musically, whatever I felt was the best 601 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 2: I could do. 602 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: So seventies, you're with the band, you don't get a 603 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: record deal until deep into the eighties. What's going on there? 604 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 2: Well, it just never kind of came together with the 605 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 2: management in Texas. So I eventually was able to get 606 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: out of that and I just kept playing. There was 607 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 2: a period where I couldn't really play live. I just 608 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 2: did solo acoustic gigs for a year or so. But 609 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 2: then I met my manager, Joe Preestnitz, wonderful man that 610 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 2: started manage me and managed me for thirty eight years 611 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 2: until he passed away a couple of years ago. But 612 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 2: we just kind of started designing a thing of just playing, 613 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 2: playing gigs and just trying to get things rolling. And 614 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: really it was another few years of just I was 615 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 2: fortunate that ever since I was fifteen years old, I 616 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 2: knew Christopher Cross. We've been friends, and he got signed 617 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 2: to Warner Brothers Music, and so he told Warner Brothers 618 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: about me, and they were kind of like luke warm interested, 619 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 2: But I just kept playing and playing and playing until 620 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: finally Austin City Limits asked if I wanted to do 621 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 2: a show on there in eighty I think it was 622 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 2: late eighty three, and I did it. In eighty four, 623 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 2: I did. I had my own show on Austin City Limits, 624 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 2: and I think, you know, there was a point where 625 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 2: Warner Brothers decided, well, maybe we'll work with this guy. 626 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: So they brought me to La to live and start 627 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 2: kind of grooming me. So I spent another from eighty 628 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 2: four to eighty five just like hanging with record execs 629 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 2: and producers and arrangers and trying. They were I think 630 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 2: basically they were trying to figure that. I think they 631 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 2: were interested in me, but they were like, what do 632 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 2: we do with this guy? We don't even know what 633 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: to do. We don't know if this you know. But 634 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 2: they were interested enough to keep things rolling, but not 635 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 2: enough to really push the button on it and stuff. 636 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 2: And that was as they were. So I kept doing 637 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 2: demos and sending them in and and trying to find 638 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 2: a producer to do my first record with Warners. 639 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: Okay, before you moved to La how far can you work? 640 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: You talked about doing the gig in Atlanta, but generally speaking, 641 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: was it a Texas thing or how far away from 642 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: Texas could you work? 643 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 2: We started, we started getting gigs Louisiana, Alabama, a little 644 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 2: bit Oklahoma, but there was a real hotspot for us 645 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 2: in South Carolina and Charleston. We played Charleston a whole 646 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,959 Speaker 2: lot for some reason. We just got a really good 647 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 2: crowd going in Charleston, but we played Florida and just 648 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 2: kind of the Southern states. We just kind of it 649 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: just kept kind of growing slowly. 650 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: So you had an agent who was booking these. 651 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 2: Days, Well, I did with the manager in Texas. He 652 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: had his own agent that booked me originally, and then 653 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 2: after that, Joe Priestins would just kind of book me 654 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 2: on his own. My manager because he had come from 655 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 2: a booking agency called Rock Arts before before he went 656 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 2: into management, so he would just book me. 657 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: Okay, you're cutting demos looking for a producer. How do 658 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: you end up making that record? 659 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 2: Well? I think we just kept doing demos and hopefully 660 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 2: they just kept getting a little bit better, and I 661 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 2: think it came down to two people that I was 662 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 2: going to work with, either Bill Payne from Little Feet, 663 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 2: which would have been kind of really cool to do, 664 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 2: our Dave Tickle, who worked with Crowded House, and we 665 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 2: decided for the moment, you know, to go with Dave Tickle. 666 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 2: And Dave was He's a very talented producer and engineer 667 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 2: and pretty well known, and so I think that that 668 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 2: really made Warners feel a little bit more confident. So 669 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 2: I think at that point they said, okay, let's make 670 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 2: this record. So that's when we started making Tones in 671 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 2: eighty five. 672 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: And were you happy with the final record? 673 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 2: I was, yeah, I think it was a snapshot of 674 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 2: where we were. It didn't it didn't encapsulate everything, but 675 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 2: I think it's an interesting record. 676 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: So how does the record the record comes out and 677 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: then ultimately a relationship with the company ends. Tell me 678 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: about that, Well, yeah, I don't know. I think they 679 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: brought me into the office, you know, because the record 680 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: did okay, not great, but they came they brought me 681 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: into the office and they said, you know, we're not 682 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: really going to drop you yet, but we're not sure 683 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,959 Speaker 1: what to do. So we're going to suggest that rather 684 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: than make you could stay here and make your second record, 685 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: but we don't really have a lot of people that 686 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: are that interested in getting behind it. So we advise 687 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: you to just leave the deal and we'll let you 688 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: let you do it, you know. So they were kind 689 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: of like on the fence. They're like, well, I don't know, 690 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 1: we don't really let him go, but we'd kind of 691 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 1: rather for his own sake, just to go somewhere else 692 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: because we don't really we're not really our heart's not 693 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: in it, you know. So I took their advice and 694 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: I just didn't do it. Well. How disillusioning was that. 695 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 2: Well, it was, it was. It was. It was kind 696 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 2: of a bummer because I felt like, you know, for 697 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 2: all the ups and downs, I had some kind of 698 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 2: family with these people, and they were good people. I mean, 699 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 2: they're just doing what they think is right. And I 700 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 2: think they were probably just looking for something to be 701 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 2: a big hit. You know. I think a lot of 702 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 2: record companies that it's it's not like Concord Jazz where 703 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 2: they'll put out stuff, you know, and you know a 704 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 2: lot of the big labels like, well, we want to 705 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 2: concentrate on the stuff that's really going to do something 706 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 2: or at least we think it's going to do something, 707 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 2: you know, And I think if they didn't know, you know, 708 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 2: it's like, well, let's put our energy elsewhere. But I 709 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 2: met two guys, Lee Abrams and Denny Somak, who had 710 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 2: started Cinema Records and they were distributed by Capitol Records, 711 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 2: and they said, oh, we'd love to do a record 712 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 2: with you. And so I signed a deal with Cinema Records. 713 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: And how did you meet those two big radio guys, Lee, Yeah, 714 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: let you I don't know. 715 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 2: They just those guys. Yeah, but they loved like rock guitar, 716 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 2: and they loved the Yardbirds, and they liked that kind 717 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 2: of off the cuff stuff. So they called Joe Preess 718 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 2: when they say, man, you know, we just really like 719 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 2: what he does and we we'd like to do something together, 720 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 2: which is yeah, it was kind of like really, you know, 721 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 2: because you're already of field, but you know, and they 722 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 2: were just into it from on this maybe a side 723 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 2: gig of theirs or something. And so they they had 724 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 2: started this record company and said let's make this record. 725 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 2: We really, we really would like to do that. And 726 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 2: so that's when I started putting together a via music. 727 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: Okay, So did they sign you to Capital first or 728 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: did you make the record and then Capitol decided to 729 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: distribute it. 730 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting what happened. I was with 731 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 2: Cinema and I'd gotten well into the record and Cinema 732 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 2: dissolved for some reason. I'm not sure why Lee and 733 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 2: Denny dissolved it, but so there was this there was 734 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 2: a pivotal point where it defaulted the Capital to at 735 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 2: which point they could have gone we're not interested, or 736 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 2: we're interested to pick it up. And what happened, and 737 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 2: just there was so much money invested in it that 738 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 2: Captain went, well, there's we got this money invested in it, 739 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 2: so let's just go ahead and see it through. So 740 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 2: it was kind of by default that I ended up 741 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 2: on Capital and they just they said, well, we're going 742 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 2: to just let's just see this through. So they they 743 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 2: they did that, and they and I just kind of 744 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: ended up on Capitol and I and I was about 745 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,719 Speaker 2: halfway through the record and I just kept working on it. 746 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,800 Speaker 1: Okay, that was an interesting time at Capitol. Hill Milgrim 747 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,720 Speaker 1: came from Elektra. He really pushed you to what degree 748 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: you did you believe that was fortuitous and to what 749 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: degree did you feel Hale supporting you. 750 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 2: Well, it was I didn't really know Hale at that point. 751 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 2: I was working with somebody else. I didn't really have 752 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 2: much contact with him. They just kind of consented to 753 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 2: let him do his thing. I was the first time 754 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 2: I got to produce the record myself, and I was 755 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 2: just really intent on making a strong guitar record. I 756 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 2: figured I've got to really make my stamp in this way. 757 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 2: So that was my main concentration, and that's what I did. 758 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,959 Speaker 2: It was probably the beginning of my just incessant doing 759 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 2: stuff over and over and over, trying to get it 760 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 2: just just right, you know, which is that's good in 761 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 2: a way, but not good in other ways. You know, 762 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,399 Speaker 2: you can it can be a diminishing and return thing. 763 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 2: But I just kept that until I made the best, 764 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,399 Speaker 2: the best record I could. And I went a little 765 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,480 Speaker 2: over budget for even though you know, maybe at the 766 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 2: time it wasn't that over budget, but for me it 767 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,359 Speaker 2: was not being a big artist. But and then I 768 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,720 Speaker 2: just turned it into to the record company. They didn't 769 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 2: really like the I don't think they liked the record 770 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 2: very much. In fact, I got got kind of chewed 771 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 2: out at Capital when I turned it in, they were like, oh, 772 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,720 Speaker 2: you know, they chewed me out for going over budget 773 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 2: and they didn't seem very interested in the record. But 774 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 2: interestingly enough, it was kind of like a just not 775 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 2: a very good vibe. And I was like leaving there 776 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 2: and said, well, at least I did the record. At 777 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 2: least I'll put it out. I don't know what's going 778 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 2: to happen, because it didn't feel very good, you know. 779 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 2: But I met this guy on the way out named 780 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 2: Jeffrey Shane who was worked in the radio department at 781 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 2: the time, and he came up to me and he said, man, 782 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,479 Speaker 2: I heard the record, and he said, I just love 783 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 2: this record. And he says, I don't care what anybody 784 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 2: thinks here, I'm going to make sure that people hear 785 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 2: this record. I'm going to make sure it does something 786 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 2: because I just think it's really nice. And I was like, wow, 787 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 2: that's cool. And he lived up to his word. I mean, 788 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 2: that guy, single handily initially a capital turned the wheels around. 789 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 2: It was, I mean and starting. I think I owe 790 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 2: a lot of gratitude to him for getting things going 791 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 2: because he just he was relentless. He just went to 792 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,839 Speaker 2: every radio station in America and tried to get them 793 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,320 Speaker 2: interested in something on the record. 794 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, the record Clisse of Dover was used in 795 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: many other areas before it actually broke on the radio 796 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,840 Speaker 1: because it was an instrumental uses. You know, the track 797 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: did not break until a period of time after the 798 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: album was out. So what was going through your mind? 799 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: Were you think it was over? And then were you 800 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 1: surprised or what? You know? 801 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 2: I didn't. I just went back to playing gigs and 802 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 2: I I just felt that I did the best I 803 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 2: could on that record, and I thought it was a 804 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,480 Speaker 2: good record, and I thought, you know what, I did 805 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,760 Speaker 2: the best I could, and I'm just going to go forward, 806 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 2: you know, and not no put too much emphasis on 807 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 2: what the reflection is, you know, because people that heard it, 808 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 2: you know, the fans had heard it seemed well, we 809 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 2: really like it. So that was that was you know, 810 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 2: making me feel okay, regardless, So. 811 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: When it becomes a hit, you know what goes through 812 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: your mind. 813 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 2: Well, I was surprised really in a way. The uh 814 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 2: it's interesting that we I just didn't expect it really, 815 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 2: you know, being an instrumental song, and but it just 816 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,720 Speaker 2: kind of fit in a little niche you know, on 817 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 2: the radio. It was just like perfect timing on the 818 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 2: radio where they it was able to be used right 819 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 2: before the news or whatever. But and as you say, 820 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,919 Speaker 2: I think it was used in sports events and other 821 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 2: stuff that kind of gave it some momentum. But I 822 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 2: was surprised, and it just kind of kind of kept 823 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 2: kept getting taking off more and more. But it was 824 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:46,600 Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting that. 825 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: Okay, but you've been slugging it out for twenty years, right, Okay, 826 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 1: do you finally feel like you made it? I mean, 827 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: your touring goes up a big step, there's more of 828 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,760 Speaker 1: a profile. What's it like being you at that time? 829 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 2: Oh? It was great. We were able to play auditoriums 830 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 2: and theaters and stuff, and gigs were gigs were great 831 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 2: and we had good attendance, and uh yeah it was 832 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 2: It was great. And the whole climate at Capital change. 833 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 2: So you know, we'd walk into Capitol right, Oh yeah, 834 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 2: how you how's it going? How can I get you something? 835 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 2: You know, it was kind of funny, you know, that 836 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,840 Speaker 2: way it can change. But uh yeah, it was great. 837 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: So and so why did it take so long for 838 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: the follow up? 839 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. I think it's that sophomore 840 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 2: edit effort, and I was like, oh, now I got 841 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,920 Speaker 2: to really really make the best record, And you know, 842 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,920 Speaker 2: I would have done things a lot different than I 843 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 2: did on venus Ayle. I think the record turned out okay. 844 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,839 Speaker 2: There's a couple of songs on it that I'm not 845 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know about that, but a lot 846 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 2: of it. I actually never really listened to my music 847 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 2: very much. 848 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: I listened to. 849 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 2: It a few months agoing, wow, that's really there's some 850 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 2: there's some that's you know, some people think that that's 851 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 2: my best record I did, but that's subjective. But I 852 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 2: just got into this thing of doing it over and 853 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 2: over and over and over, which I mean really honestly, 854 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,240 Speaker 2: that was the epitome of just going overboard. We recorded 855 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,880 Speaker 2: the whole record in Austin and it actually sounded pretty 856 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 2: darn good and I should well I don't use it. 857 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:25,319 Speaker 2: It should, but I mean I could have just gone 858 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 2: with that, you know, but I don't know. Let's go 859 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 2: to LA and go to A and M studios and 860 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 2: spend tons of money and it's going to be great, 861 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 2: and let's redo it and just go for broke, you know, 862 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 2: which I don't think is the Obviously, you can get 863 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,919 Speaker 2: lost in the rabbit hole, and you know, if you're 864 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,279 Speaker 2: if you're a huge group, then you have a little 865 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 2: bit more uh, you know, latitude to do that. Although 866 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 2: I still don't think it's the way to do it, really, 867 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 2: but you know, I wasn't that big of a of 868 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 2: an artist to go do that. I spent a ton 869 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 2: of money making that record. I mean just ridiculous amount 870 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 2: of money. And I think you know, you mentioned Hal Milgrum. 871 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,000 Speaker 2: I think he hung in there with me, but I 872 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 2: think I put a lot of stress on capital, you know, 873 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 2: just spending taking way too I mean four years. I 874 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 2: mean I had worked on I didn't spend four years 875 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 2: making the record. Although that's what the that's what's written. 876 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 2: Oh he spends four years. I'd spent two and a 877 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 2: half years making the record, which is crazy enough. You know, 878 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,200 Speaker 2: we spent a couple of years on just touring and 879 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 2: then I finally started the record again. But yeah, I 880 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 2: spent over two years making that record. It's like, yeah, 881 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:36,200 Speaker 2: I don't think that that was the way I could. 882 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,800 Speaker 2: I think I could have done it in other ways 883 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 2: and been a little bit more efficient without going down 884 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,040 Speaker 2: the rabbit hole. But that's the way I was thinking. 885 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:47,080 Speaker 1: Then Okay, Hail gets blowed out. You lose your champion, 886 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,640 Speaker 1: the sound of music, rock starts to fall by the wayside, 887 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 1: hip hop becomes big, and suddenly you're on independent labels. 888 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you missed your moment? 889 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,799 Speaker 2: Well, And I think I'm responsible for a lot of that. 890 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 2: I don't know about missed the moment. I mean, because 891 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 2: it's like, how do you equate all that stuff? But 892 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 2: to your point, I think I'm responsible that if you 893 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 2: create momentum, you have a certain obligation to keep that 894 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,280 Speaker 2: momentum going. So you have to look at the whole 895 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 2: degree of everything. What are you doing, How are you 896 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 2: handling this stuff? 897 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 1: How? You know? 898 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 2: Like, don't just disappear for six years and come out 899 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,320 Speaker 2: with a record and think you're the Beatles and everybody's 900 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:32,440 Speaker 2: going to remember you. Don't get so lost in experimentation 901 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 2: that you just got a bunch of you know, Like 902 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 2: I at that point, I was working on the record 903 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 2: after Venus Ale was I was turning in tapes to 904 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 2: Capital and I think they were half baked, and I 905 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 2: didn't really know what I was doing, and I was 906 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,880 Speaker 2: kind of you know, just fishing. So I think to 907 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,480 Speaker 2: your point, yeah, music was changing, but I think during 908 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,800 Speaker 2: music changing, I wasn't. I could have spent more time 909 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:04,400 Speaker 2: just being careful of that momentum, you know, And I 910 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,319 Speaker 2: think I was just kind of a little bit not 911 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,839 Speaker 2: quite uh the I wasn't quite on course then, So yeah, 912 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,200 Speaker 2: capitare like, well, he's already spent you know, a ton 913 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 2: of money and he's just doing demos. So they kind 914 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 2: of got out of the deal, you know. 915 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,120 Speaker 1: But how depressing is that you reach the pinnacle not 916 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: only do you not continue to have sex, I mean 917 00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: success use you might have sex and uh you lose 918 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:30,760 Speaker 1: your deal. 919 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,239 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And at the time I was like, how 920 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,080 Speaker 2: dare they? You know, But then you think they go, well, 921 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:42,240 Speaker 2: you know this, I'm partially responsible for that too, because 922 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,120 Speaker 2: you you have to you have to bring it, you know, 923 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 2: and sometimes it's hardball and you have to be real 924 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 2: careful and maintain that that bulliancy. And I'd just spent 925 00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,239 Speaker 2: a lot of time making these half baked demos, and 926 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 2: they got scared because you know, it's like that all 927 00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,280 Speaker 2: this money is going out and he's just turning in demos. 928 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 2: So I think now it was just a yeah, just 929 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,000 Speaker 2: you have to you have to take responsibility, you know, 930 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,240 Speaker 2: to make a really strong product. You know, you can't 931 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 2: just rely on your laurels. 932 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: Okay, many people have that peak, pass it and go straight, 933 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,359 Speaker 1: they get a street job. Did you just pick up 934 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 1: like nothing happened. 935 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,720 Speaker 2: No, Well, I think emotionally it hurt me a lot. 936 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 2: I just think I just kind of decided to go, well, 937 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,600 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna, you know, keep going forward and keep 938 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 2: experimenting with music and see what I can do. But 939 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think it was. It was. It 940 00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 2: was a trying time, and at the time, I don't 941 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 2: think I I think at the at the time, I 942 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 2: think I was a little bit more in like this 943 00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,839 Speaker 2: entitlement place where well, you know, I've gotten there, so 944 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:06,839 Speaker 2: I should just be able to stay there without any 945 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 2: any extra energy, which is not true. You have to keep, 946 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 2: you know, for a better or for words, you have 947 00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:16,879 Speaker 2: to kind of keep earning your keep as you move 948 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:23,799 Speaker 2: through the evolution. So I think, you know, and that's 949 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,879 Speaker 2: that was one of the lessons I had to learn. 950 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 1: Well, needle to say, the landscape has worked. Everybody, even 951 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,680 Speaker 1: Nearrick Clapton's on an independent label at this particular point 952 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:37,319 Speaker 1: in time going back, you mentioned Jeff Beck, So who 953 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,680 Speaker 1: is your favorite? Who do you think is best from 954 00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:40,160 Speaker 1: that era? 955 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,359 Speaker 2: Well, if you're talking about just somebody that's just got 956 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:51,279 Speaker 2: that hemispheric guitar concept, I really got to say, it's 957 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:57,040 Speaker 2: Jimmy Hendricks and Jeff Beck. It's really hard. I mean 958 00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,760 Speaker 2: there's a lot of great players, Page and Class and 959 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,239 Speaker 2: Peter Green and of course all the blues players, all 960 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,719 Speaker 2: the Kings and God, I mean there's tons of them, 961 00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,480 Speaker 2: and that's just in blues and pop and rock. But 962 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:19,040 Speaker 2: there was something amazing about Hendrix and Beck that I 963 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 2: don't they're just trailblazers and created a new flame that 964 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 2: arose out of very few library books. You know, they 965 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,400 Speaker 2: didn't have a lot to work with to create what 966 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,920 Speaker 2: they did. Now we can go look at twenty man 967 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,920 Speaker 2: thirty fifty manuals on playing guitar, but I think at 968 00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,840 Speaker 2: the time they had like two paragraphs go oh, okay, 969 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,560 Speaker 2: well then i'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to 970 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 2: make this up myself. And it's amazing if you look 971 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:51,319 Speaker 2: at it in that picture of what they did with 972 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,880 Speaker 2: what they had to work with. So I would say them. 973 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,880 Speaker 1: So talking about Beck who ultimately played without a pick, 974 00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,319 Speaker 1: What was your take on that as a guitarist. 975 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,320 Speaker 2: I thought it was great. I enjoyed him when he 976 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 2: played with a pick too, and so I like both 977 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,720 Speaker 2: both effects. I think both effects are great, and really 978 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,000 Speaker 2: you can do certain things with each one that you 979 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:15,839 Speaker 2: can't do with the other. 980 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,000 Speaker 1: How about yourself, when do you use a pick and 981 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:19,360 Speaker 1: when not? 982 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,560 Speaker 2: Well, A lot of times when I play acoustic, I 983 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,880 Speaker 2: don't use a pick. When I play electric, I use 984 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,560 Speaker 2: a pick, But sometimes it's hybrid playing where I use 985 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:28,800 Speaker 2: a pick but I use my fingers at the same time. 986 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,640 Speaker 1: And what about Eddie Van Hill and the leader guitarist 987 00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:33,680 Speaker 1: with tapping, etc. 988 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 2: Oh, this's amazing. Yeah, he probably was principally one of 989 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,080 Speaker 2: the first people to reinvent guitar after the original guys 990 00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,279 Speaker 2: in the sixties, as far as bringing a whole new 991 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:48,200 Speaker 2: dimension to it. 992 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,040 Speaker 1: So how do you write a song? 993 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,319 Speaker 2: Usually just by jamming, just kind of playing around either 994 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,960 Speaker 2: on piano or guitar and just coming up with something 995 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,880 Speaker 2: and then seeing if a melody arises out of that. 996 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,640 Speaker 2: I kind of let it just do its thing, and 997 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,560 Speaker 2: usually it spells out whether it should be a vocal 998 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:08,520 Speaker 2: or an instrumental. 999 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,040 Speaker 1: Okay, you know, do you just leave the tape recorder 1000 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,000 Speaker 1: on every time you pick up the guitar. 1001 00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,120 Speaker 2: No, no, I just kind of play around and see 1002 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:24,560 Speaker 2: what's coming up. Sometimes the the ideas just come. I'm 1003 00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,360 Speaker 2: not sure from where. I don't even know if you 1004 00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,279 Speaker 2: can take credit for them, but they just kind of come. 1005 00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,000 Speaker 2: But and then you're left with the custodial work of 1006 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,440 Speaker 2: finishing it out, connecting the dots. But sometimes the bigger 1007 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,040 Speaker 2: picture just kind of happens. 1008 00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,719 Speaker 1: And do you pick up the guitar and knowing you 1009 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,959 Speaker 1: want to make an album, or you playing every day? 1010 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 2: I usually play every day, Yeah, for how long at 1011 00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,719 Speaker 2: different times. Some days it's for hours and hours, some 1012 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,240 Speaker 2: days just thirty minutes. 1013 00:54:58,160 --> 00:54:59,880 Speaker 1: And it never feels like work to you. 1014 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,920 Speaker 2: Sometimes I think when I have to get ready for 1015 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:08,239 Speaker 2: a tour, and then I'm really, really I have to 1016 00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,080 Speaker 2: do Oh, I got to work on these songs and 1017 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,239 Speaker 2: this technique, you know, it's not so much the free 1018 00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,520 Speaker 2: form of just playing for fun. It's working on a 1019 00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:20,640 Speaker 2: particular repertoire of music. So you're kind of you're more 1020 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,640 Speaker 2: bound of, well, this is what I got to work on. 1021 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:24,799 Speaker 2: That sometimes I don't feel like doing that, but I 1022 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:25,200 Speaker 2: have to. 1023 00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,960 Speaker 1: And for those who are unfamiliar with your music, how 1024 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: would you describe it? 1025 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,680 Speaker 2: Well, it's I think it never really landed on any 1026 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 2: one style. It's I never really figured out what I 1027 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,640 Speaker 2: like best. And there's so many players that are so great, 1028 00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,040 Speaker 2: so there's always something to learn, and you can always 1029 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,000 Speaker 2: be a student of music. So I kind of just 1030 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,440 Speaker 2: anytime I can, you know, learn something like a country 1031 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,120 Speaker 2: and flavored thing, or blues or jazz or rock. I 1032 00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,399 Speaker 2: think it's just kind of all over the map. Maybe 1033 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 2: I have an identity crisis or something. 1034 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,520 Speaker 1: Well, you know, there were the people in the eighties 1035 00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,279 Speaker 1: like Ingville, Moms Stein or whatever, people were known for 1036 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:12,759 Speaker 1: playing incredibly fast. And I've been to see you, and 1037 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,960 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's incredibly fast, but I can't believe 1038 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:21,360 Speaker 1: you can play all those notes and get that sound out. 1039 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,239 Speaker 2: Well, I think that, you know, a lot of what 1040 00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,040 Speaker 2: I do is I just learned from my heroes, and 1041 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,200 Speaker 2: I kind of I took certain things from Jeff Beck, 1042 00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,839 Speaker 2: certain things from Mark Clapton and Jimmy Hendrix and Keith 1043 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:41,279 Speaker 2: Richards and Brian Jones and Noki Edwards and Wes Montgomery 1044 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,920 Speaker 2: and all the people that I like. I would inculcate 1045 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:48,600 Speaker 2: that into one recipe and that's how I kind of 1046 00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:50,360 Speaker 2: came up with my style. 1047 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,239 Speaker 1: I mean, do you have to talk about learning the 1048 00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,839 Speaker 1: repertoire but someone's mind would be blown that you can 1049 00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,920 Speaker 1: hit all the notes and there are no clams. I mean, 1050 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,080 Speaker 1: what degree do you have to practice that or if 1051 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,160 Speaker 1: you put in so many hours in the past that 1052 00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:05,640 Speaker 1: it's just natural. 1053 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,759 Speaker 2: Well, there's a there's probably a lot of clams. And 1054 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,920 Speaker 2: nowadays with YouTube, you know you you're there's no stone 1055 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 2: left unturned. Everybody can see one of your moments that's 1056 00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,959 Speaker 2: less than best. And I definitely I'm not the most 1057 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:24,280 Speaker 2: consistent player in the world. But uh uh, it takes practice. Yeah, 1058 00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:31,720 Speaker 2: it takes practice. And yeah, just working on the melody, 1059 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,440 Speaker 2: the harmony and the rhythm, just working on all the aspects. 1060 00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:46,200 Speaker 1: In your personal life. Are you married not now? I'm not. 1061 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:47,840 Speaker 1: Now do you have children? 1062 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:49,240 Speaker 2: I don't. 1063 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,240 Speaker 1: To what degree do you believe your dedication to the 1064 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,800 Speaker 1: guitar and the career sort of shut those avenues. 1065 00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,320 Speaker 2: Down more than I wish they had, to be honest, 1066 00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:04,280 Speaker 2: I think I'm it's speaking very candidly. I think I 1067 00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,760 Speaker 2: was so obsessed with music that I kind of lost 1068 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,120 Speaker 2: track of life a little bit, you know, just like 1069 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:15,000 Speaker 2: spending every waking moment chasing music. And I think it's 1070 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 2: important to have a balance in life. 1071 00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:19,760 Speaker 1: And to what degree are you a gearhead? 1072 00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 2: Ah? Less than I used to be. I went through 1073 00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:30,720 Speaker 2: a period where I mean, I still like, you know, 1074 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,480 Speaker 2: stuff that sounds good, but I don't try to put 1075 00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,720 Speaker 2: as much emphasis on that now because it's kind of 1076 00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:38,560 Speaker 2: another rabbit hole you can get into. 1077 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:41,560 Speaker 1: So how many guitars do you own? 1078 00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,960 Speaker 2: All right now? I don't own I've sold a lot 1079 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,960 Speaker 2: of stuff. I probably owned maybe eighteen or twenty guitars 1080 00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:49,520 Speaker 2: at the most. 1081 00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,280 Speaker 1: And what did you how'd you decide to sell and 1082 00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:54,760 Speaker 1: how'd you decide what to keep? 1083 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,280 Speaker 2: Really just stuff that feels magical, that makes me want 1084 00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:04,440 Speaker 2: to play, that's sounds good, and pieces that are sentimental. 1085 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,040 Speaker 1: And so what are your favorites. 1086 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,160 Speaker 2: I have a Martin that my father bought me when 1087 00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,480 Speaker 2: my guitars got stolen in nineteen eighty two, and he 1088 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,840 Speaker 2: replaced when he bought me this Martin. That's a very 1089 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,520 Speaker 2: cinemal guitar to me. I have another acoustic that chedd 1090 00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:28,680 Speaker 2: Atkins gave me any guitars that were gifts, They're kind 1091 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:34,520 Speaker 2: of very special to me. My favorite I just have 1092 00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,680 Speaker 2: like this. I work with Fender and I have an 1093 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,760 Speaker 2: EJ Virginia model that's out on the market now and 1094 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,280 Speaker 2: I play one of those. As far as an electric guitar. 1095 00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,960 Speaker 1: So to what degree did you customize it make it 1096 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: different from usual Fender fare? 1097 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,840 Speaker 2: It's almost totally stock. On one of them. I put 1098 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,440 Speaker 2: a switch where I can have the bridge pickup be 1099 00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:00,360 Speaker 2: humbucking or single call, but the some of the are 1100 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:00,840 Speaker 2: just stock. 1101 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:04,800 Speaker 1: And then how do you set up guitar? You like 1102 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,400 Speaker 1: heavy gauge, light gauge, how's the action? To what degree 1103 01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,600 Speaker 1: do you change what comes off the assembly? 1104 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:13,880 Speaker 2: I try to lower the action a little bit and 1105 01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:18,480 Speaker 2: I use a medium gauge string. Yeah, just kind of 1106 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:19,840 Speaker 2: set it up as good as I can. 1107 01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,720 Speaker 1: Well, you're a Fender guy now, but you also have VS. 1108 01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,920 Speaker 1: Three thirty fives. I mean, giving your take on this 1109 01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,600 Speaker 1: sound and the playing of different brands. 1110 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, gifts ins are great. I love using those in 1111 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,440 Speaker 2: the studio. They have just an absolute wonderful lead tone 1112 01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:42,560 Speaker 2: to them. I sometimes prefer the strat for a rhythm sound. 1113 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,160 Speaker 2: It's a little cleaner and clearer sound, and so a 1114 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,840 Speaker 2: lot of times live I'll use a strat predominantly because 1115 01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:49,000 Speaker 2: it covers more bases. 1116 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,680 Speaker 1: And what about effects, I use a. 1117 01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:57,120 Speaker 2: Lot of old funky effects because the analog w sound 1118 01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:02,680 Speaker 2: better to me. Oh, the old funky ones. 1119 01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:05,800 Speaker 1: But how many amste own? And what are you into? Yeah? 1120 01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,600 Speaker 2: About eighteen or so? I guess eighteen, nineteen twenty. I 1121 01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,080 Speaker 2: use a lot of old Fenders and Marshalls, but I 1122 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:15,080 Speaker 2: do use this new amp called a two Rock, which 1123 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:15,880 Speaker 2: are really nice. 1124 01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:18,120 Speaker 1: What makes it special. 1125 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:25,080 Speaker 2: It's it's a real clean kind of well, it has 1126 01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,240 Speaker 2: a lot of bravado for like a crunchy rhythm kind 1127 01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,240 Speaker 2: of tone. It's kind of in between a Marshall and 1128 01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,440 Speaker 2: a Fender. So I like to use a three way setup. 1129 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:36,919 Speaker 2: I'll use like the Fender for clean and the two 1130 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,840 Speaker 2: Rock for kind of a crunchy rhythm, and then the 1131 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,760 Speaker 2: Marshall for my lead tone. 1132 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,680 Speaker 1: And you're on the road now because you want to be, 1133 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:51,080 Speaker 1: or because you have to be. 1134 01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:53,640 Speaker 2: Because I want to be. I guess, Yeah, how much 1135 01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,760 Speaker 2: you work in these days? Well, we did one long 1136 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:58,840 Speaker 2: tour at the beginning of the year and then I 1137 01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,720 Speaker 2: have another long tour starting in a few weeks, a 1138 01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,919 Speaker 2: couple months, and then that'll probably be it for the year. 1139 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,280 Speaker 2: I have some sporadic shows after that, and then I'll 1140 01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:11,600 Speaker 2: be doing some tours at the first and next year. 1141 01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,440 Speaker 1: And when acoustic and win with a band? 1142 01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,160 Speaker 2: Well, I haven't done any acoustic tours lately, but don't 1143 01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,160 Speaker 2: have any planned right now. But I have some new 1144 01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,800 Speaker 2: acoustic tunes that i'd like to put on a record. 1145 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,000 Speaker 1: And when do you decide to make a record. 1146 01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,160 Speaker 2: When I feel I've got enough music that's worth recording 1147 01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,800 Speaker 2: I have right now. But I released a double record 1148 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:39,040 Speaker 2: about a year ago, and now I have twelve new 1149 01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:41,800 Speaker 2: basic tracks that I've just completed, but I need to 1150 01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:42,600 Speaker 2: finish them off. 1151 01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,360 Speaker 1: And I see you in a studio now. People can't 1152 01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,080 Speaker 1: see we're audio only. Is that your studio? 1153 01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,400 Speaker 2: It is? It is? Yeah, it's a place I started 1154 01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:53,520 Speaker 2: building many years ago. 1155 01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, well even you know, I'm only looking at the monitors. 1156 01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:02,400 Speaker 1: But that's pretty extensive for a whole studio. Yeah. 1157 01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:03,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if you can see it, but 1158 01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:07,800 Speaker 2: it's got a console back here. There's a console back there. 1159 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:09,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, what kind of console is that? 1160 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:13,520 Speaker 2: It's called tone looks and I have a Neve and 1161 01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,280 Speaker 2: API stuff in there too. 1162 01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:19,640 Speaker 1: And what kind of speakers are you using. 1163 01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:24,360 Speaker 2: For modern They're ATC's, yeah, which are really nice speakers. 1164 01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,480 Speaker 1: You do a lot of covers. How do you decide 1165 01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:27,479 Speaker 1: what songs to cover? 1166 01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,480 Speaker 2: Just songs that I like? I like doing Hendrix songs. 1167 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:36,960 Speaker 2: Sometimes I try to do Stevie Wonder songs and I 1168 01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,680 Speaker 2: shouldn't really because it's like out of my legue. Really, 1169 01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,400 Speaker 2: I love Stevie Wonder. He's probably other than the Beatles, 1170 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:47,640 Speaker 2: He's probably my favorite pop artist there ever was. But yeah, 1171 01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:49,360 Speaker 2: if it's just a song I like, or if I 1172 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:53,320 Speaker 2: want to like do something crazy, do a song that 1173 01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,360 Speaker 2: would not make sense for me to do, but I'll 1174 01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:58,120 Speaker 2: rearrange it so that it works for me. 1175 01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And what about singing? You've been criticized in your 1176 01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:08,920 Speaker 1: career for some of your vocals, although I think forty 1177 01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,400 Speaker 1: Mile Town from Avia Music hom is great. So you 1178 01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,160 Speaker 1: have any self consciousness or you just do what you do? 1179 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,080 Speaker 2: I just do what I do. But yeah, it's it. 1180 01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:22,480 Speaker 2: I'm no great singer really. 1181 01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:24,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1182 01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:26,320 Speaker 2: I just decided to sing, you know, I could have 1183 01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,680 Speaker 2: very easily just gone well no, no, don't sing it 1184 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:31,400 Speaker 2: elite singer, but I never I just I don't know. 1185 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,440 Speaker 2: It's had to just kind of do it. But I 1186 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,120 Speaker 2: wouldn't say I've got a huge handle on singing, per se. 1187 01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,760 Speaker 1: And how's it worked out economically for you? You had 1188 01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,320 Speaker 1: a big get, but then you spend money at Capital. 1189 01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if you own your own publishing, do 1190 01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,360 Speaker 1: you have any royalty income coming in? I do? 1191 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:53,160 Speaker 2: I do, yeah, And then I do you know? I 1192 01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:57,640 Speaker 2: work with different artists on different companies for a gear 1193 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:04,960 Speaker 2: you know that's put out my design, and then certain 1194 01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:08,880 Speaker 2: video things and stuff like that. Yeah, but it's worked 1195 01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,040 Speaker 2: out pretty well. 1196 01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:14,200 Speaker 1: And what other gear do you make other than guitars? 1197 01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,040 Speaker 2: Well, I have my own type of Jim Dunlop pick, 1198 01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,160 Speaker 2: and then I have several different models of guitars with Fender. 1199 01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,560 Speaker 2: I did have a fuzzy intered out with my name 1200 01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,560 Speaker 2: on it, but it's been discontinued at this point. 1201 01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:34,280 Speaker 1: And what's special about your picks? 1202 01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,320 Speaker 2: Well, they just a certain material. They're a Jazz three pick, 1203 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,880 Speaker 2: which they put out anyhow. But then there's a version 1204 01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:45,720 Speaker 2: I have with the plastics a little different. 1205 01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,640 Speaker 1: And certainly those of us who lived through the nineties 1206 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:54,680 Speaker 1: are aware of you. Are you happy of your with 1207 01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,880 Speaker 1: your present status, or would you still like to reach 1208 01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,960 Speaker 1: more people and feel that there's more a runway ahead. 1209 01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:07,160 Speaker 2: I think I would like to just do a better 1210 01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,479 Speaker 2: job at what I do. And that doesn't mean play 1211 01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,000 Speaker 2: faster or crazier. It just means make music that would 1212 01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:20,760 Speaker 2: be is as valid to make as I can make 1213 01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,960 Speaker 2: and and make people feel good. Because the whole all 1214 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,880 Speaker 2: the rest of stuff, I mean, I've done okay, you know, 1215 01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:35,200 Speaker 2: I don't. I'm I'm doing all right. If if if 1216 01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,560 Speaker 2: it was in my destiny to play to more people 1217 01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,560 Speaker 2: or whatever, it'd be fine. But it's it's not. It's 1218 01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:42,520 Speaker 2: not like a it has. 1219 01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:43,160 Speaker 1: To be that way. 1220 01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,880 Speaker 2: It's just it's more just how can I do a 1221 01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:50,959 Speaker 2: better job at what I'm I'm doing? Because I think 1222 01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,280 Speaker 2: things when you get older, it's like you can't really say, well, 1223 01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,160 Speaker 2: you know, I'm a musician and guitarist and I do 1224 01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,960 Speaker 2: this thing, and there's all this It's like there's something 1225 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,840 Speaker 2: about that. It's like in the movie The Wizard of 1226 01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,600 Speaker 2: Oz when they pulled the curtain back, you know, and 1227 01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,000 Speaker 2: when oh, there's you know, he's back there pushing levers 1228 01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,320 Speaker 2: it's not what you thought it was. And as you 1229 01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,080 Speaker 2: go through life you realize that this stature or this 1230 01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:18,080 Speaker 2: entitlement or this thing and all this stuff you know 1231 01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:23,160 Speaker 2: that we put so much prominence on, it's like, that's 1232 01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:28,600 Speaker 2: not it, And what's it is just you know, developing 1233 01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:30,680 Speaker 2: that thing inside yourself to do the best you can. 1234 01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:34,720 Speaker 2: And it's kind of like going to the hub of 1235 01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:36,840 Speaker 2: a bicycle wheel and then you take care of all 1236 01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,560 Speaker 2: the other spokes if you If you can do that, 1237 01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,040 Speaker 2: you know, and then people enjoy that, you know. And 1238 01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:43,840 Speaker 2: I think the biggest turn on for me is if 1239 01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:45,480 Speaker 2: I go on the road and I can see that 1240 01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:48,960 Speaker 2: people I'm making people feel good, or if I get 1241 01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,840 Speaker 2: a letter from or email that says, wow, you know, 1242 01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:53,320 Speaker 2: you helped me through a tough time. I mean that 1243 01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:57,280 Speaker 2: there's nothing to compare with that right now. So that's 1244 01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:01,640 Speaker 2: really my bread and butter at this point. And I'm 1245 01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,240 Speaker 2: not saying the other stuff can't happen or shouldn't happen. 1246 01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:08,640 Speaker 2: It's just it's not. It's it's not it's not my 1247 01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,400 Speaker 2: important currency right now as much. 1248 01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,520 Speaker 1: And are you just doing your own thing or do 1249 01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,639 Speaker 1: you know other guitarists, other musicians, and hang and play 1250 01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:20,440 Speaker 1: with them. 1251 01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,799 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I like to jam with other people and stuff. 1252 01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,120 Speaker 2: You know, Mike Stern and I made a record together 1253 01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,519 Speaker 2: and I would love to make another record with him. 1254 01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,560 Speaker 2: He's a great musician. 1255 01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,720 Speaker 1: And any other guitarists out there that people should be 1256 01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:36,800 Speaker 1: paying attention. 1257 01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:42,280 Speaker 2: To, well, everybody, you know. I love Bill Frazelle and 1258 01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:48,360 Speaker 2: Julian Lunge. Geez, there's so many. There's a lot of great, 1259 01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:57,280 Speaker 2: great players. Josh Smith, that's great. Yeah, there's a there's 1260 01:08:57,320 --> 01:08:59,440 Speaker 2: a lot of them. 1261 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,880 Speaker 1: Okay, who's coming to your shows at this point? 1262 01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:06,240 Speaker 2: It looks like the crowd's gotten older, that's for sure, 1263 01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:10,960 Speaker 2: you know, and that's cool. I think we get but 1264 01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,679 Speaker 2: we do get, you know, we do get kids coming 1265 01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,760 Speaker 2: out to this, young kids sometimes that are interested in 1266 01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:17,640 Speaker 2: playing guitar. I thing. 1267 01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,200 Speaker 1: So it's mostly fans. People were pretty familiar with your music, 1268 01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:26,920 Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, And then you talked about doing videos. 1269 01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,280 Speaker 1: You made your own personal videos. Are you doing any 1270 01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:32,479 Speaker 1: other kind of instructional teaching thing? 1271 01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just finished one for a company called Truefire 1272 01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:38,120 Speaker 2: and it's coming out in August, and that it was 1273 01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,960 Speaker 2: a pretty it's a very comprehensive, Like ten song, I 1274 01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,760 Speaker 2: wrote all these this music for the instructional video to 1275 01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,479 Speaker 2: kind of show my technique, and that's coming out the 1276 01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:50,040 Speaker 2: end of August. It's an interactive thing. 1277 01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,759 Speaker 1: Sounds good. Eric, I wanted to thank you for taking 1278 01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,559 Speaker 1: the time to speak with my audience. Gonna lead you 1279 01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,960 Speaker 1: with time to practice today, so thanks for talking. 1280 01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,000 Speaker 2: About Thank you, Bob, thanks for doing this. 1281 01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,320 Speaker 1: You bet. Until next time, it is Bob left stets