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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 1: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 1: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 1: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Christol? Indeed, we do truly a

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Speaker 1: jam packed show. This morning. We have news with regards

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Speaker 1: to the oldest serving senator, Senator Dianne Feinstein, about what

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Speaker 1: exactly is going to go on with her and what

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Speaker 1: exactly is going on with her. We also have some

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Speaker 1: revelations about potentially who the leaker of those classified documents are,

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Speaker 1: as the media is like out for blood, calling for

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Speaker 1: them to be found and hunted down and dealt with

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Speaker 1: and whatever. So we've got to catch the trader, as

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Speaker 1: one Msnbccia Gooul said, So we've got all of that

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Speaker 1: for you. Also some additional revelations from those documents. This

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Speaker 1: morning about the US presence inside of Ukraine. What the

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Speaker 1: official line from the Pentagon is on that. Also the

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Speaker 1: very latest with regards to twenty twenty four. Yet another contender,

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Speaker 1: Tim Scott, entering the race. Yet another individual who cannot

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Speaker 1: bring himself to say one negative word about Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: who is the front runner kicking sideways in that race. Yes, indeed,

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Speaker 1: Jim Scott is kicking sideways forwards or whatever. Anyway, we

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Speaker 1: also have some updates where some developments in that dominion

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Speaker 1: lawsuit against Fox News. More bad news for Fox News there,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to react to this viral Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: interview with the BBC. You got a couple parts that

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Speaker 1: we want to show you there as NPR says that

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Speaker 1: they are no longer going to post on Twitter because

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Speaker 1: of the what do you say, state ye, state affiliated

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Speaker 1: affiliated me? That's the word I was looking for. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So a lot to get to this morning before any

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Speaker 1: of that though. Spotify video, Yeah, that's right. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've been taking a couple of days off from talking

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Speaker 1: about this because we've been dealing with highly classified information.

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Speaker 1: Still are, but don't forget that. You can watch the

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Speaker 1: full video on Spotify for our premium subscribers, you could

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Speaker 1: sign up at Breakingpoints dot com. It's you guys are

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Speaker 1: taking great and big advantage of it. I could see

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Speaker 1: the numbers from Spotify, and I know that it's really

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Speaker 1: an easy way and better way in some ways to

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Speaker 1: consume the show. Not necessarily the earliest, but still fantastic

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Speaker 1: for everyone. So it's a easy way to support us

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Speaker 1: and for to enhance your viewing experience. You could sign

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Speaker 1: up at Breakingpoints dot com as a premium member and

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Speaker 1: support all of our work here and everything we've been

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Speaker 1: doing in the last week. But let's talk about Diane Finstein. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we wanted to give you a quick update on

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Speaker 1: this situation. So last we heard from Diane Feinstein, she

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Speaker 1: announced that she was not going to run for reelection

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. Well that was about two months ago.

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Speaker 1: She has not cast a single vote or been in

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Speaker 1: the Senate since then. Now this cause is of course

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Speaker 1: umber of problems, but most crucially, she is on the

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Speaker 1: Senate Judiciary Committee. Her vote is required to confirm any

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Speaker 1: federal judges anywhere in the country. So, in terms of

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden's push to get his people on the bench

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Speaker 1: in an aggressive way, the same way that Trump did

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Speaker 1: when he was in office. Feinstein has basically her being

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Speaker 1: unavailable in home in California receiving treatment has kept them

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Speaker 1: from being able to do any of that. So yesterday

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Speaker 1: this really sort of came to a head when congress

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Speaker 1: and Rocanna, who of course is also from the California delegation,

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Speaker 1: put on a statement calling on her to retire. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is really pretty extraordinary. Go ahead and put this

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Speaker 1: up on the screen. From Congressman Conna, he says, it's

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Speaker 1: time for Senator Feinstein to resign. We need to put

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Speaker 1: the country ahead of personal loyalty. While she has had

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Speaker 1: a lifetime of public service, it is obvious she could

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Speaker 1: no longer fulfill her duties. Not speaking out undermines our

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Speaker 1: credibility as elected representatives of the people. Now, as we

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Speaker 1: have talked about here before, for the last number of years,

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Speaker 1: the Democratic establishment, including Nancy Pelosi, starting with Barack Obama,

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Speaker 1: really covered for Dianne Feinstein and defended her, wouldn't speak

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Speaker 1: a word of criticism, certainly did the opposite of pressuring

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Speaker 1: her to resign. They actually propped her up in the

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Speaker 1: last election. So shortly after Congressman Conna puts out this statement.

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Speaker 1: Feinstein puts out a statement of her own, saying she

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Speaker 1: is not going to resign, but she is going to

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Speaker 1: step down from the Senate Judiciary Committee. In that statement,

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Speaker 1: she provided no timeline for her return to the capitoal

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Speaker 1: I'm reading from the Washington Post reporting right now, which

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Speaker 1: she said, quote has been delayed due to continued complications

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Speaker 1: related to my diagnosis. She said she planned soccer to

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Speaker 1: work from home until her medical team said it was

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Speaker 1: safe for her to travel, but she conceded that she

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Speaker 1: understood her absence could delay the work of the Judiciary Committee,

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Speaker 1: which she once was poised to chair. So quote, I've

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Speaker 1: asked Leader Schumer to ask the Senate to allow another

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Speaker 1: Democratic Senator to temporarily serve until I'm able to resume

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Speaker 1: my committee work. So not resigning, as she showed how

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Speaker 1: I've done long ago, frankly, but she is going to

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Speaker 1: step down from the Judiciary Committee so they can move

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Speaker 1: forward with confirming judges. This is outrageous. You are not

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Speaker 1: doing your job. You are ill and infirm, honest like

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Speaker 1: outside of public service. We feel bad for you. It's

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Speaker 1: sad when anybody's in their twilight years. And is no

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Speaker 1: longer at the top of their game. She lost her

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Speaker 1: mind a long time ago. I mean, we brought everybody

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Speaker 1: this story here, how she forgot that she had put

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Speaker 1: out a statement saying that she wasn't going to run

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Speaker 1: her own staff had to remind her of that. So

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Speaker 1: many stories have now come out about how she has

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Speaker 1: completely lost it in terms of her memory. Her staff

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Speaker 1: has to tell her how to vote on separate elections.

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Speaker 1: And you know what again bugs me the most about

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Speaker 1: this is now that she's stepping down from the Judiciary Committee.

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Speaker 1: That is the only ostensible, actual responsibility that she has

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Speaker 1: in a Senate being on the Judiciary com Yeah, now,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing. You're just at home, negligent for

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Speaker 1: constituent services. For there are thirty nine point five million

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Speaker 1: people who live in California. Senators are supposed to be

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Speaker 1: helping their local businesses, their constituents, veterans get benefits, all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. There is no way in hell that she

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Speaker 1: is actively engaged in this when she's quote working for

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Speaker 1: most she probably has no want her to be. Quite frankly, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the other thing. If you're a business and you

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Speaker 1: need like a tax credit or something like you want

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Speaker 1: to call Finestein to get that done for you. So basically,

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Speaker 1: California has only one working senator. They have so forty

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Speaker 1: million people only have one guy in the Senate who

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Speaker 1: can actually do anything from them. People in vermont have

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Speaker 1: better service than that, give them the action up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even what's a tinier state, Montana. People in Montana have

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Speaker 1: more representation than the people of California right now in

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Speaker 1: terms of getting stuff done. This is craziness, Like she

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Speaker 1: has to go. And the reason why people don't want

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Speaker 1: to say anything is because all these other senators are

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Speaker 1: just as elderly infirmed. I mean Mitch McConnell, the guy

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Speaker 1: hasn't been seen in like a month after he had

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Speaker 1: a fall. Look, this is all sad. It's sad when

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Speaker 1: eighty year old people fall, we can feel bad for them.

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Speaker 1: But when they we publicly pay their salaries and they're

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Speaker 1: supposed to be doing jobs on behalf of us, then yeah,

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Speaker 1: we get to sound a little bit agist like I

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Speaker 1: and I'm so sick of tap dancing around like sensitivities

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Speaker 1: on this. Yeah, there's a difference in private and public life.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It's not ageist when the person just literally

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Speaker 1: can't do their job, right. I mean, this is just

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Speaker 1: about like, are you there, are you literally like doing

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Speaker 1: the very basics of what this job requires, which the

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Speaker 1: very basics is being present and taking votes on this

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Speaker 1: critical committee, which she's been unable to do for two

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Speaker 1: months now. So just as a reminder, you know, back

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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, the California Democratic Party, who no doubt

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Speaker 1: saw the way that she was declining, and also because

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Speaker 1: her politics had become really out of step with the

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Speaker 1: California public overall, which has moved more to the left,

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Speaker 1: and she's this very sort of like centrist, corporatist old

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Speaker 1: school type, they endorsed her primary challenge to California Democratic

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Speaker 1: parties and you know, we're ready to go in a

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Speaker 1: different direction. And the National Democrats, again led by Obama

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Speaker 1: I think she was the first Senate candidate that he

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Speaker 1: endorsed in that twenty two election cycle, came in over

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Speaker 1: the top and said, no, we went Diane Feinstein. This

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Speaker 1: is on them. I mean, Pelosi continues to cover for her.

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Speaker 1: She has never admitted what is really going on here.

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Speaker 1: And so now you have this situation where, you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of Californian is very concerned about what's going

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Speaker 1: on in Judiciary and the types of votes that are

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Speaker 1: being taken on reproductive rights and all sorts of other issues,

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Speaker 1: and they have no representation from one of their two senators.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, it's good that she's stepping down from

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Speaker 1: the Judiciary Committee, but it's insane that it has gotten

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Speaker 1: to this point. And you know, I have so much

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Speaker 1: contempt for her staffers. I'm sorry too, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: You're letting this persist come on? Like absolutely, this is

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Speaker 1: the most populous state in the country already, you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of proportionally they are underrepresented, and then you

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Speaker 1: effectively have just one senator to represent this entire gigantic state.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, it's a very telling, sad, absurd, ridiculous situation.

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Speaker 1: But the very latest we could tell you this morning

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Speaker 1: is she is stepping down for the Judiciary Committee, but

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Speaker 1: I guess continues to plan to serve out the rest

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Speaker 1: of her term doing absolutely nothing. If she had any

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Speaker 1: scrap of decency left, she would resign. And you know,

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Speaker 1: she's worth like one hundred million dollar. I cannot understand,

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Speaker 1: Oda NAPA. Invite your grandchildren and hang out for the

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Speaker 1: remaining time you have on this earth. Why are you

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Speaker 1: subjecting the rest of us to your bs? But they're

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Speaker 1: such egomaniacs, it doesn't even enter their head. Right, Let's

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Speaker 1: get to the main stuff that we have in the show.

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Speaker 1: Some breaking news this morning on the way that the

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Speaker 1: media is handling this leaker. They seem intent on making

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Speaker 1: sure that this person both gets prosecuted and trying to

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Speaker 1: basically uncover who it is as possible. Now, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to say that isn't technically a good act of journalism.

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Speaker 1: It certainly is newsworthy. It's newsworthy and it's in the

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Speaker 1: public eye. But there is a vehemence to which they

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Speaker 1: want to unmask this person as soon as possible, to

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Speaker 1: try and get them prosecuted. Not usually how we handle

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Speaker 1: leakers here in the press, but whenever you're against the

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Speaker 1: regime narrative, I guess that's what they've decided to do.

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Speaker 1: The Washington Post hunted down and found a member of

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Speaker 1: a private discord community around a gun YouTuber where this

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Speaker 1: original leaker seems to have originated from. The leaker itself

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Speaker 1: is said to have been posting hundreds of classified documents

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Speaker 1: on this discord. Basically that found community during the pandemic

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Speaker 1: in which they were He was basically trying to prove

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Speaker 1: to all of them that he was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he was cool. But he started out hand transcribing intel,

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Speaker 1: then just eventually just started taking pictures of classified documents

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Speaker 1: on the discord before they had migrated to other channels

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Speaker 1: and eventually surface to the level where people like us

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Speaker 1: were able to report on it. So The Washington Post

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Speaker 1: sat down for a video interview with one of the

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Speaker 1: members of the discord. The man's face is well, I

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Speaker 1: guess teenager's face is blurred because apparently he's under the

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Speaker 1: age of eighteen. He's going to give us a little

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Speaker 1: bit of insight into who this person was and possible

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Speaker 1: some of his motivations. Let's take a listen. I was

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Speaker 1: first midware of these documents. I want to say about

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Speaker 1: six to eight months ago. I was in a discord

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Speaker 1: server by the name of Dougshaker Central, and in this

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Speaker 1: channel there was classified documents being posted by a user

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Speaker 1: who I refer to as og. From this point, the

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Speaker 1: documents were often listed as Ukraine versus Russia. At first, however,

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Speaker 1: it slowly spiraled into just intelligence about everything. I would

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Speaker 1: not call it giobisl blower in the slightest. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that there was a goal nor some sort of

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Speaker 1: accomplishment that he was looking for and sharing these documents.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there's some anti government sentiment, but that's not

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Speaker 1: Unlike most right wingers in the modern day and age,

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Speaker 1: og was not hostile to the US government. However, he

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Speaker 1: had disagreed with several occasions such as Waco and Ruby Ridge,

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Speaker 1: and thought that the government is overreaching in several aspects.

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Speaker 1: There was no heavy snowd in like conspiracy here. Like

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Speaker 1: some people may believe, he is not a Russian operative.

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Speaker 1: He is not a Ukrainian operative. I'll go as far

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Speaker 1: to say he's not even on the east side of

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Speaker 1: the world. Any claims that he is a Russian operative

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Speaker 1: or pro Russian is categorically false. He is not interested

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Speaker 1: in helping any foreign agencies with their attack on the

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Speaker 1: US or other countries. All right, So what can we

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Speaker 1: take away from that? By the way, Waco Ruby Ridge

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Speaker 1: sounds like my kind of guy. Whoever this person is

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Speaker 1: now in terms of his motivation, it just seems clear

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Speaker 1: like there was no like higher motive. It was just

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Speaker 1: like proven to my friend basically cool. Yeah, he's like

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Speaker 1: shit posting and being like, hey, I'm actually cool. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess who amongst us hasn't been anonymous online and

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Speaker 1: wanted to be like, no, actually, I really am a

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Speaker 1: big deal, guys. I totally promise. Here's some classified intel

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Speaker 1: to prove my bona fides. I mean, taking away from it,

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Speaker 1: I guess what can we say? First of all, it

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Speaker 1: confirms a couple of things in the background we've seen

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Speaker 1: in the background before that there was a hunting magazine

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Speaker 1: taking the background of some of the photos, and I

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Speaker 1: had said here before, I'm like, whoever this guy is,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, he did not do a good job, because

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Speaker 1: you can you can see all kinds of paraphct gorilla

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Speaker 1: gorilla glue, it choose a metal ruler, hunting magnet. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, step one, Like, it's obviously the Department of

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Speaker 1: Justice is just gonna subpoena the IP address of every

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Speaker 1: single person who is in this. If they didn't use

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Speaker 1: a VPN or tour or something like that, you're screwed

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Speaker 1: already from that. Then all they got to do is

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Speaker 1: go to your house and be like, oh, well, so

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Speaker 1: do you subscribe to this hunting vagazine. Yes, your your closet,

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Speaker 1: right closet, what are your shoes like? Like Like, oh, do

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Speaker 1: you have a metal ruler? Like literally hanging out on

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Speaker 1: your desk? So yeah, whoever this gentleman is, he didn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily take the best steps. Let's go and put the

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Speaker 1: tear sheet up here on the screen. Uh. Their takeaway

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Speaker 1: is quote leaker of US secret documents worked on a

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Speaker 1: military base. His friend says, So, I mean, what can

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Speaker 1: we I don't know whatever even to take this for granted,

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Speaker 1: because it seems that this person has been posting all

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Speaker 1: of these photos and videos and text messages and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff on this discord for a number of years now.

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Speaker 1: He bragged to the group his name is OG or

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Speaker 1: is known as OG, that he had worked on a

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Speaker 1: military base. But the current speculation around that level of

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Speaker 1: intelligence crystal is it does appear to have come from

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Speaker 1: somebody on the Joint Staff, because and the Joint Staff's

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Speaker 1: office is here in Washington. Look, it's possible he was

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Speaker 1: part of a targeting unit or something like that which

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Speaker 1: is supporting Ukraine operations or some sort of intelligence base

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Speaker 1: which is outside here at DC. But some of the

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Speaker 1: immediacy through which people have been talking about. This level

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Speaker 1: of documents and the like full scale readouts that this

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Speaker 1: person was getting seems to have been working on the

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Speaker 1: staffs for somebody at the very very very high up

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Speaker 1: on the food chain in the military bureaucracy. Listen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we don't know all the details yet, but if you

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Speaker 1: take this all at face value, it's pretty wild to

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Speaker 1: me that this was done like very casually, as you know,

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Speaker 1: with the young man they interviewed there says, you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously he would have known that it was illegal. But

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Speaker 1: if you were doing this in this kind of a

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Speaker 1: casual manner and continuing to escalate and posting these pictures

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Speaker 1: with things obviously in the background, really might have known

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Speaker 1: that it was illegal. But I do not think that

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Speaker 1: you understood the gravity of what you were doing and

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Speaker 1: that it would trigger you know, an entire like whole

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Speaker 1: of media and whole of government which hunt to find you.

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Speaker 1: So that's the part that's just really wild and extraordinary

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Speaker 1: to me. I mean, when we think of past whistleblowers,

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Speaker 1: they were very intentional in their actions. They you know,

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Speaker 1: had sort of clear political goals, whether it was just

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Speaker 1: you know, transparency and exposing secrets or you know, holding

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Speaker 1: the government to account. But this seems really have to

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Speaker 1: have been a leak in search of clout. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's this is the first in the modern era, and

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Speaker 1: so it's it's just kind of a wild phenomenon that

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Speaker 1: you could have this undertaken so incredibly casually. So we'll see,

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Speaker 1: you know what else the media is able to dig

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Speaker 1: up about this guy. I have to believe the government

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Speaker 1: basically already knows who it is, though, right, Well, here's

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Speaker 1: the other issue is that this teenager apparently has a

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Speaker 1: video that you can want of Og the original poster,

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Speaker 1: at a shooting range with a rifle. Now, according to

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Speaker 1: the post quote, he yelled racial and anti Semitic slurs.

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Speaker 1: I want to see the video first before we start

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Speaker 1: branding this guy a racist. But I mean, basically, from

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Speaker 1: what they could say is Og had a dark view

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Speaker 1: of the government. The young members said he spoke of

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Speaker 1: the United States and law enforcement as a sinister force

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Speaker 1: that sought to suppress its citizens and keep them in

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Speaker 1: the dark, and he ranted about government overreach. So I

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Speaker 1: guess it's not even necessarily fair to say it was

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Speaker 1: only clout chasing. I think he was upset by some

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that he said. It's very possible that

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Speaker 1: he was against much of what was going on with

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Speaker 1: the Ukraine War and he wanted to make known what

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Speaker 1: exactly was really going on on the ground. And again,

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Speaker 1: I think we owe this person a great service, and

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Speaker 1: unfortunately he seems to have not taken any care at all.

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Speaker 1: He was doing video calls. Apparently apparently the people recognized

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Speaker 1: the background of his house in some of the photos

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Speaker 1: that were distributed. So I think you're right, whoever this

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Speaker 1: guy is, like he's either in a jail cell or

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Speaker 1: you know, like what happened with Edward Snowden where there

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Speaker 1: are twelve cargo vans outside his house and who are

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Speaker 1: all happen to be doing electrical work in this neighborhood

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Yeah, I mean, in a sense

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Speaker 1: like it's interesting to know what his motivations could have been,

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Speaker 1: you know, which could be a mix of Yeah, basically

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Speaker 1: like trying to prove he's badass to this small discord server,

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Speaker 1: which seems at least what the teenager said. Yes, that

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Speaker 1: seems to have been the primary like impetus for him

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Speaker 1: posting information and then continuing to escalate to really prove

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Speaker 1: to them like, no, no, I really am that badass,

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Speaker 1: mixed with obviously this like anti government you know, ideology

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Speaker 1: under the surface. But you know, in a sense also

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Speaker 1: it really doesn't matter what his motivations were, because he has,

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Speaker 1: in my view, done a great service in exposing the

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Speaker 1: lies that the US government has been telling and exposing

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Speaker 1: you know, the reality on the ground of this war,

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Speaker 1: and providing us with some useful information that can help

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Speaker 1: us make what are absolutely critical decisions moving forward about

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Speaker 1: US involvement in this war. So, you know, on one hand,

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Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating to know who this is and like

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Speaker 1: what was going on and how did these things end

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Speaker 1: up on some like random tiny discord server. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, it really doesn't matter his reasons for, you know,

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Speaker 1: being a whistleblower here exposing these secrets, you know. To

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Speaker 1: Glenn Greenwald reacting to this, immediately, he says, quote, the

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Speaker 1: democracy dies in darkness. Washington Post now does the job

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Speaker 1: of the US security state, hunting down its leakers, doing

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Speaker 1: everything to expose their identity. Says everything about the real

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Speaker 1: function and the ideology of these media corporations. Glenn actually

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Speaker 1: points out that the Washington Post did the same thing

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Speaker 1: with Edward Snowden. While they gleefully used part of the

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Speaker 1: archives that he obtained, published those documents and got a

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Speaker 1: Paulitz surprise. They demanded he'd be imprisoned and never pardoned,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately that already seems to be the case with

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Speaker 1: the initial media reaction. You know, we have here a

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Speaker 1: snap reaction from MSNBC where they go to one of

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Speaker 1: their retired CIA officers who immediately is like, we have

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Speaker 1: to catch and hunt down this trader. This is how

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Speaker 1: the media. Our job is to expose classified information and secrets,

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Speaker 1: regardless of what the consequences are. The consequences are the

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Speaker 1: job of the US government that is not. Our job

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Speaker 1: is to produce information. This is how a news network

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Speaker 1: immediately reacted to this. Let's take a listen. Officials believe

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Speaker 1: the documents are most likely authentic, though some may have been.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Aswing right now retired to CIO. So Mark Paul Moreopolos,

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Speaker 1: he's an NBC News security and intelligence analyst. Also the

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Speaker 1: Washington Post, David Ignati is still with us as well. Mark. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's pretendure to CIA briefing. You have thirty seconds to

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Speaker 1: explain to your superiors. What the hell's going on here?

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Speaker 1: What the hell's going on here? So I think it's

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Speaker 1: a potentially serious compromise. We don't know yet. Key points are,

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Speaker 1: we have to catch the trader. Number two kind of

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Speaker 1: re establish or reassure our allies, our bilateral relationships. So

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Speaker 1: number one, we have to catch the trader. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: even get into the substance. He doesn't even work for

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Speaker 1: the CIA anymore, at least allegedly. I don't know. You

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Speaker 1: never really leave the agency. I'm not sure there is

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Speaker 1: a such thing as a former CIA. But look, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is there. This is what they want. They're doing

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Speaker 1: the job of the FBI, like hunting down this person

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Speaker 1: and trying their best. You know, if I was a

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Speaker 1: Washington Post, you know what I would do. I'd be like,

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Speaker 1: hey man, you want to give me some of them,

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Speaker 1: more of those documents you're taking these green shots in

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Speaker 1: that discord server while you were over there, And then

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Speaker 1: I would publish every goddamn story I could, and then

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Speaker 1: maybe we can talk about who that's such is. That's

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Speaker 1: such a great point because we know that there were

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Speaker 1: way more documents. There were three hundred originally posted in

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Speaker 1: this discord server. The most that any news outlet has

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Speaker 1: at this point is like fifty So like, yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you're the Washington Post and you basically track down, okay,

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Speaker 1: who this is and what the server, why isn't that

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Speaker 1: your focus? And I think you know what has been

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Speaker 1: clear in the media's very selective coverage of these documents

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Speaker 1: is number one, they're concerned first and foremost seems to

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Speaker 1: be for the sanctity of the security state and making

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Speaker 1: sure that they're all okay, and like that our intelligence

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Speaker 1: and the CIA won't be compromised and whatever. And number two,

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Speaker 1: the stories and the framing of what they do report

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Speaker 1: on is really cherry picked. I mean, they intentionally focus

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Speaker 1: on the pieces that can be used to justify a

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Speaker 1: more hawkish response. You know, they reiterate over and over again, Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's doctored on the Russian casualty numbers, not ever really

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Speaker 1: making it clear that, okay, that happened after the fact.

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Speaker 1: And that's the only doctored element that has been pointed

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Speaker 1: out by anyone at this point. So there's that piece.

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Speaker 1: And then the other thing they like to emphasize is

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Speaker 1: like how deep our intel was into the Russian like

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Speaker 1: military apparatus and how cool our spies are. So it's

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Speaker 1: you can see by the fact that we've covered pieces

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Speaker 1: just here, our little Breaking Points team that the gigantic

430
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: New York Times, Washington Posts, like NBC Fox seeing to

431
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: any of these people that none of them picked up on,

432
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: because we're actually interested in what these documents reveal, not

433
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: just quote unquote catch the trader, I mean unbelievable. Look,

434
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: I've tried to get in touch with some of the

435
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: guys on the discord. It's actually pretty hard to find

436
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 1: if we had the journalistic resources, and clearly they you know,

437
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: charted a plane and flew immediately. If we had the resource,

438
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: I'd be like, all right, let's sit down, man, Like

439
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: what do you got, Like, let's go through it all.

440
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: Then our team and all that we would go. We

441
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 1: would report every single story and then maybe we would

442
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: get to who the leaker is, although you know, I'm

443
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: not sure I wouldn't necessarily want that on my conscience,

444
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 1: but if you look at how it fits with the

445
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: Washington Post editorial board itself, let's go and put this

446
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: up there on the screen. Guys, they say the most

447
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: damaging part of the leak Ukraine documents. Is the leak itself? Oh,

448
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: do tell the trove of the leak documents? Some mark

449
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 1: top secret is a sensational intelligence brief, a highly damaging one,

450
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 1: more than the juicy tidbits, most of which entail detailed

451
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 1: information of the Ukraine War. The most sensational and damaging

452
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: aspect of the story may be the fact of the

453
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 1: leak itself. And on that score, how and why these

454
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: documents came to see the light of day. Little is

455
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: known if most of these documents are genuine. They say

456
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: it is with pair alterations intended. Of course, they try

457
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: and point to that, but really, you know, what does

458
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: the editorial board come out to. They say that the

459
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: leak itself was very damaging for the Ukraine War, and

460
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: thus they basically come to the conclusion, you know that

461
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: this person has done immense damage to US and Ukrainian

462
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: national security. I mean, yeah, the only reason that this

463
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: person has done any damage is because he told us

464
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: the truth when they were lying to us. That's that's

465
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: the He did damage to their lies. So they basically

466
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 1: prefer the lies over the trip. Have you ever seen

467
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: a meta organization that wants less info? What's wrong with you?

468
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: You want to sit there as a Pentagon scribe and

469
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: just print the bs that they tell you what comes

470
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 1: through this the rest of the world. Many of our

471
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 1: allies don't agree with us. Number two, Zelensky actually does

472
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: want long range missiles to strike directly inside of Ukraine.

473
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: What Number three, that the situation in Ukraine is way

474
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: more dire than they tell us, and that they the

475
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: US tells us. And also here's the other part. I

476
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: don't know why people aren't going with this. The Russians

477
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: are doing terribly. That's another thing that out of this thing,

478
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: they're embarrassing for everyone it is, and I mean, yeah,

479
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,719
Speaker 1: another part that was included in these documents is Russia

480
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: is actually open to Brazil's offer of helping to negotiate

481
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: a piece with a host of you know, unaligned countries.

482
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: So there is a lot of really important information here,

483
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: but that seems not to be the primary focus of

484
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: the media. They say in that editorial piece that the

485
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: US authorities will urgently need to track trace the leak's providence.

486
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 1: The Justice Department has launched an investigation intended to do

487
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: just that. You know, going back to that MSNBC clip,

488
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: the Morning Joe clip with like the Cia Gooual, who's

489
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: immediately like catch the Trader. The other guest that they

490
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: have on there is David Ignatia, who has a column

491
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: in also the Washington Post that uses what came out

492
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: to again like sort of cherry pick this and and

493
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: call for a more hawkish approach in Ukraine, which is

494
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: something we've seen in a number of places. I've his

495
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: piece pulled up here. He says that our defense production

496
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: capability should be the quote trump card for the US.

497
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 1: In World War Two, the US converted manufacturing plans across

498
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: the country to make tanks, planes, and aircraft carriers that

499
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: simply overwhelmed Japan and Germany. No similar mobilization has taken

500
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: place this time. Why not? Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has

501
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: met several times with defense contractors. But why hasn't President

502
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: Biden appointed the equivalent of FDR's War Production Board. Do

503
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: you get literally calling for a World War II style

504
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: mobilization to supply Ukraine in this proxy war we're fighting

505
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: with Russia, Like that's what they're using these documents to

506
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: call for catching the Trader and to call for a

507
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: dramatic World War II level mobilization. Why hasn't Biden done

508
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: what it takes like FDR did in World War Two.

509
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,239
Speaker 1: I mean, to me, this is just insanity. Yeah, and

510
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, you read even more of the column Crystal

511
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: that you're referencing the David Ignatius column, and he's like,

512
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: Lloyd Austin needs to explain to the American people why

513
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: he's not doing more to in Ukraine. He even references

514
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: you know, one of the maps that we actually saw.

515
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: We didn't even I didn't even see it was all

516
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: that noteworthy. If anything is responsible, it's basically says US

517
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: spy drones or should not fly over Crimea to avoid

518
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: any sort of incident over Russia. He's like, why are

519
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: we doing that? That's too cautious, And I'm like, too cautious.

520
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: They have people in the military who are trying to

521
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: not get us into a full scale war. They should

522
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: be applauded for that. And actually, you know, if anything

523
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: that's good on the Biden administration, one of the two

524
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: things that we learn that validates some of the Biden

525
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: admins is that caution is worthy. And also don't ever

526
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: give Zelensky long range missiles or jets, because we know

527
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: exactly what the hell he's going to do with them correct,

528
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: and it also listened if there were a handful of

529
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: David ignacious style takes in the media, balanced on the

530
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: other side by people who were saying some of the

531
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: things that were saying, like, hey, the only thing that

532
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: held Zelenski back from long range attacks deep inside of

533
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: Russia was the fact we didn't give him the long

534
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: range missiles that he's been begging us for for a

535
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: year now. Maybe we should like consider the way that

536
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: this could ask lea out of control. And look, here's

537
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: China's red lines. Maybe we should consider what that means

538
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: as well. If you also had those voices there too,

539
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: you could say, okay, this is like a healthy ecosystem.

540
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: There's a debate going on. You're looking at these documents

541
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: trying to parts the media only ever pushes in the

542
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: hawkish direction. I have seen no one making any of

543
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: the points that we're making within the corporate mainstream media.

544
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: They only ever apply pressure in a hawkish direction. Liberal media,

545
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: conservative media. Largely. It is really consistent across the board.

546
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: You've got MSNBC with their CIA dude, catch the Trader.

547
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: You've got side by side with David inging Asius on

548
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: the same very same program than warning Joe like e

549
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: Lait table setter for Washington program saying, oh my god,

550
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: we're being way too cautious about not getting into World

551
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: War three. So that's how you end up with the

552
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: foreign afairs landscape that we have. It's only ever goes

553
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: in one direction, and that has never been more clear

554
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: than it is right now. Yeah, it really is. And look,

555
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: you know they want blood. The fact that this guy

556
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: is anti government and likes guns. Brother, it's going to

557
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: be a rough goya. Unfortunately, let's go to the next

558
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: part here, which extends to what the fallout from this

559
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: is going to look like. Let's go and put this

560
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: up there on the screen. Quote. US intelligence agencies may

561
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: change how they monitor social media chat rooms after missing

562
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,239
Speaker 1: leaked US documents for weeks. Quote. President Biden and other

563
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: officials were dismayed when they learned the docs have been

564
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: online for at least a month. Nobody is happy about this,

565
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: said one official. The Biden administration is now looking at

566
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: expanding how it monitors social media sites and chat rooms

567
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: after US Intel agencies fail to spot Pentagon documents circulating online.

568
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: So their response to this is, now we need to

569
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: crawl every discord server, every private chat just watch. They

570
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: are going to come after They're going to come after encryption.

571
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 1: They're going to be looking for even more back doors

572
00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: into things like WhatsApp, into any private reddit, private chat rooms.

573
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: You should now assume everything is infiltrated outside of like

574
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: poor proton mail and I guess the signal protocol, although

575
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: I guess they can, you know, even try and go

576
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: after that one. This is terrifying. I mean, they're really

577
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: what they're talking about here is creating a dragnet for

578
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: the entire Internet just to look for classified information. But

579
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: what have we learned in the history of the post

580
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: nine eleven security state that's may never just stop there.

581
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: Once they get everything, then they'll be able to read

582
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: metadata and pull to the extent that you know, they

583
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: don't even have this stuff. They're going to possibly you know,

584
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: hire more people to trawl through gaming chat rooms and

585
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: fort fortnite groups and all this stuff Minecraft because that's

586
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: where some of this originated. They're literally talking about a

587
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: massive expansion of the US surveillance state, and we all

588
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,719
Speaker 1: know it's going to happen, and you don't even get

589
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: to vote for it. That's the most insane part all,

590
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: we'll just do it. We'll never even hear about it

591
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: until another brave whistleblower exposes helped our civili have been

592
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: casually violated, like over and over again, and then the

593
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: media will demand the hashtag catch the trader in order

594
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: to reveal that person's identity as well, they say. According

595
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: to one congressional official, the intelligence community is now grappling

596
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: with how it can scrub platforms like Discord in search

597
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: of relevant material to avoid a similar leak in the future.

598
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: Now they do have at the very bottom of the article,

599
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: they do have some like, you know, people who actually,

600
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: like mildly care about civil liberties, one of whom, a

601
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: former intelligence official, said, if the administration tries to check

602
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: online chatrooms more closely, will have to navigate legal safeguards

603
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: design to protect Americans privacy and freedom of expression. Watching

604
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: a public chat room is fair game, but law enforcement

605
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: agencies don't have the legal authority to monitor a private

606
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: online chat room without probable cause. Another person who was

607
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: former General Counsel of the NSA said, we do not have,

608
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: nor do we want, a system where the US government

609
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: monitors private internet chats. Now, the former officials may feel

610
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: that this is over the line. But we have seen

611
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: many times how the US government will find loopholes. I mean,

612
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: one thing that they'll do classically is like, well, the

613
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: government can't do it, but what if we hire a

614
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: private contractor and they do it for us instead? Like,

615
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: does that is that okay? Then? I mean we've literally

616
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: seen them go to that those sorts of lengths and tactics.

617
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: Make no mistake about it, whether or not you know,

618
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: they're overblowing how devastating this is to the intelligence gathering

619
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: and our allies and all this stuff. They are absolutely

620
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: the pentagon, the CIA. They are absolutely humiliated by this

621
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: leep and they will take extraordinary measures to try to

622
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: make sure that it never happens again. Number one, and

623
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: that number two. You can't have material like this just

624
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: sitting out there on some discord server without them knowing

625
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: about it immediately. So God only knows what they're going

626
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: to do behind the scenes. But you should be very

627
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: very very uncomfortable with all. I mean, the moment I

628
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: saw this, I said, this is it. You know, private

629
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: chats are gone, you know, to the extent that they're

630
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: even safe now even with you know, there's a I

631
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: recommend this they're on your iPhone. You can use something

632
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: called lockdown mode, which is meant to try and stop

633
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 1: like the Pegasus Israeli systems they've used in the past.

634
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: It can be a pain in the ass. But honestly,

635
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm I think anybody who is involved in anything even

636
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: remotely sensitive now at this point you're doing a disservice.

637
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: Not too they are coming after you. They will read

638
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: all and everything private communications that you have, and even

639
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: just your run of the mill VPN is not even

640
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: enough now at this point. It's terrifying really, whenever you

641
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: think about it. I thought about it a lot too,

642
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: whenever we were handling the classes. Oh yeah, I was like, man,

643
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, it's one of those where you just don't

644
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: know and they could throw it right back at you.

645
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: And you know, we look at what with Julian Assange

646
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,719
Speaker 1: like in terms of going after people and saying that,

647
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: you know, even asking for people to leak you information

648
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: is supposedly now a federal crime. So anyway, I'll still

649
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: say it. Listen, if you have access to anymore, we

650
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: only have fifty some of these docs. If you have

651
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: access to any two fifty we'll produce. We will never

652
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: try it out and we will do our best to

653
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 1: publish every scrap of news that is inside of it.

654
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: So if you have it, OG, if you're listening, OG,

655
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: if you're listening, we would love to see all of

656
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: it and we will protect you. All right, Let's go

657
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: to Ukraine and go to the second part here. Another

658
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: important story that has come out, one of the initial

659
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: ones that we were able to discuss, is that US

660
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: special forces were actually present inside of Ukraine along with

661
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: French and British special forces. It's leaked several days ago.

662
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: Counterpoints actually covered on the very first day of the League. Well,

663
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: that wasn't just a part of the League. It has

664
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: now been officially confirmed by the Pentagon. Let's go and

665
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: put this up there on the screen. The Embassy confirms

666
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: that the Pentagon has US special forces on the ground

667
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. They say, quote, I will not talk about

668
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: specific of numbers and that kind of thing. To get

669
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: to your question. There is a small US military presence

670
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: at the embassy in conjunction with the Defense Attache's office

671
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: to help us work quote on accountability of the material

672
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 1: that is going in and out of Ukraine. So they

673
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: are attached to that embassy and to that defense attache. Now,

674
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: if you believe that they're just staying inside the embassy,

675
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: I think that you're an idiot. Also, if you think

676
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: that we really care at all about transparency in terms

677
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: of making sure weapons get to where they are, I

678
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: also think you're an idiot, because, well, here's the thing.

679
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: We have no Inspector General's office that requires any transparency

680
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: on this whatsoever. The Treasury Department doesn't even have a

681
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: unit that is looking at this. They're monitoring social media

682
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: to make sure to try and see where weapons are.

683
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: What do we also know from that crazy article that

684
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: we talked about here about the grifters in Ukraine who

685
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: just show up and are like US citizens who want

686
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: to fight, and some of these things they're getting access

687
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: to full, brand new automatic weapons. Who do you think

688
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: that's coming from. You think you just get crates of

689
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: weapons that magically appear inside of Ukraine and we have

690
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: no idea who gets their hands on. So the idea

691
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: that this is what they're ostensibly doing is bs. We

692
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: already know that the former Ukrainian Defense secretary official you know,

693
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: is currently getting under indictment or whatever inside of Ukraine

694
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: for over purchasing weapons and overpaying for military supplies, which again,

695
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, he's not the one foot in the bill.

696
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: It's US who are floating the bill for all this,

697
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: So I just think it's ludicrous. The fact that they

698
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: even confirmed that they're on the ground though, is again

699
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: one of the extraordinary services that this leaker gave us. Yeah,

700
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: that's right, because we would not know it for sure.

701
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: We all suspected, but we don't know it for sure. Yes,

702
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: it comes out. Their theory here is that we sent

703
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: like army rangers over to be like glorified auditors. Like, okay,

704
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 1: get out of Sure, that's an insult to that, it's

705
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: an insult to everyone's intelligence. And you know, it's amazing

706
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: there's like very little pushback on any of that, but

707
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: any of this with the Pross but whatever. The other

708
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind here is that, yeah, from

709
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,959
Speaker 1: the leak, it wasn't just the US, it was also

710
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: notably France. Now France just came out and outright lined

711
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: and said, no, we don't have any money on the

712
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: ground there whatsoever. Yeah, they didn't come up with They're like, well,

713
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: they're just auditing. They're like hanging out of the Embassy

714
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 1: of prom they're not actually engaged in the war. They're

715
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: just like they're making tea and like checking the doing

716
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: the bookkeeping or whatever. So yeah, it's really important that

717
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: Americans understand what we're doing. How many people where are

718
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: they that there is a presence on the ground. This

719
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: has never been acknowledged before. So yeah, the fact that

720
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: this forced the government's hand to at least, you know,

721
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: admit the partial, bare bones truth ten percent of the

722
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: truth here is a significant service that's been done. Yeah. Absolutely,

723
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: And you know, in terms of also where even if

724
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: they are just in the ambassy, let's believe that. One

725
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: of the things that came out of the documents is

726
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: that the Pentagon is running all of Ukraine's military operations.

727
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: They are doing battle damage assessment on strikes they are

728
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: going through and the logistically, you know, supplying their weapons depots.

729
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: If those guys are on the ground in defense attach

730
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: a role that doesn't even necessarily minimize what exactly that

731
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: they're doing, which is they're basically running the war like

732
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: the Ukrainians are. The Ukrainians are doing the fighting and

733
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: the dying, and that is very brave. But the high

734
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: level strategy and all that, it's not happening in Kiev,

735
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: it's happening in the Pentagon, and then these guys are

736
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: basically carrying all that stuff out. I really wish, you know,

737
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,479
Speaker 1: some of this stuff we could show, Like we're talking

738
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: about slides and slides and slides of the US military

739
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: doing after action reports on all these Ukrainian ops. This

740
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: is not even our fight, and we're doing this All

741
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: this stuff like that is what those guys are actively engaging.

742
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: So just because you're not there pulling a trigger, if

743
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: you're there and you're doing spotting and you're helping with

744
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: ISR and all this other support stuff, you're probably even

745
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 1: more vital to the war effort than some boot who's

746
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: on the ground. And even if they're just doing the

747
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: auditing from THEBC, what do you think is going to

748
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: happen if a few of these service members on the

749
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: ground special Operations forces? What do you think is going

750
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: to happen if they get killed and like dragged through

751
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: the streets or god forbid, horrible? What do you think

752
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: that the David ignatious is and the CIA Gooule that

753
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: we've showed you earlier from thement, what do you think

754
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: they're going to say we should do in response to that.

755
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: So this is a tremendous risk in terms of potential escalation.

756
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: It's very revelatory in terms of our real role in

757
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: guiding this war. We've had little scraps of reporting previously

758
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 1: about the way that our intelligence is absolutely I mean,

759
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: all these weapons systems that we're shipping, many of these

760
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: things like they have to then rely on us to

761
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: do the back office work in terms of, you know,

762
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: making these things work and understanding where to target and

763
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: who to target and all of that. So we are

764
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: so much deeper in this than the American people have

765
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: been told or realized, and you get just little glimpses

766
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: here of what's really going on. Yeah, absolutely, So keep

767
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 1: you guys updated on that story. I doubt we'll literally

768
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: ever hear about it again. Yeah, let's go to the

769
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: next part here, this one thanks to our friend Diegor

770
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: in Moscow flagging what is a story that the Western

771
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: press is almost entirely miss. Let's go ahead and put

772
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 1: this up there on the screen. Russian lawmakers are currently

773
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: in the end stage processes of allowing electronic draft notices. Now,

774
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: why does that matter? The bill which is going on

775
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: at second and third readings needs to pass the Upper

776
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: House of Parliament and be signed into law by President

777
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin effectively does away with the in person delivery

778
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: of notices to conscripts and reservists who are called up

779
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,800
Speaker 1: for duty. A lot of the ways that passed Russian

780
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: men were able to avoid the draft is they just

781
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: stayed away from their addresses, can't find you. It's kind

782
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: of like a subpoena if you're not technically served, you know,

783
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: or whatever in person here in the US, and you

784
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: haven't technically been served by a court of law, and

785
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: that's why people, you know, dodge process servers and all

786
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: that stuff. Well, what this would do is it would

787
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: do away with the in person requirement and say that

788
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: any notice issued by local military conscription office will doesn't

789
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: just have to be sent by mail, but will be

790
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: considered valid the moment that they are put onto a

791
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,479
Speaker 1: state portal for electronic services. Recipients who do not show

792
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: up will then be prohibited from leaving Russia, will have

793
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 1: their driver's license suspended, and will be barred from selling

794
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: their apartments in other assets, and otherwise. They are basically

795
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: fully ramping up the digital surveillance state and they will

796
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: put a digital drag net on you the moment that

797
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: they want your ass to be drafted. So this puts you,

798
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: it puts things on the line for a future draft.

799
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: A lot of guys were able to dodge the past

800
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: draft by getting out of the country, avoiding their places,

801
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: selling their apartments. They were just like, it's not going

802
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: to work, and I'm out of here now. Nope, if

803
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: your name is in the registry, you're done. You're driving.

804
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: You can't drive, can't go anywhere, can't leave the country,

805
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: can't sell anything. They'll probably cut you off. You for

806
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: a bank account. They're sending you to the front line

807
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. I mean, it's a tragedy actually, you know

808
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: when you consider it, and it's one of those where

809
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: apparently we haven't been noticing. But it also just shows you,

810
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: like the will of the Russian government here does not

811
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: appear to be breaking. They are very much setting the

812
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: stage for a second draft if they need one, and

813
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: that you know, look, that's thousands, tens thousands of young men. Yeah,

814
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: who Look, I mean, they probably don't care about Ukraine

815
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: either way, and they're just getting you know, thrown into

816
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: a meat grinder like this and they're fighting and dying.

817
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: You know, for Vladimir Putin's ego, it's just a tragedy.

818
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 1: It really is. So Jegor, who is one of those

819
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: military age men, who is now you know, part of

820
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: this whole disaster, he says. So basically, legally a totality

821
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: of adult men in Russia are now a draft fodder

822
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: for Putin. The mobilization law is still acting with this.

823
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: He can order to draft anyone in any numbers, and

824
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: people can't run. It will be made very difficult to

825
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: hide if you do fail to report to the draft office.

826
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: So it's not only the minute they post they no

827
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: longer have to find you. The minute they post this

828
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: like electronic draft. Notice, that's it. You've legally been officially

829
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: served and you can't leave the country. And if you

830
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: don't come to the draft board within twenty days, then

831
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: they're going to forbid you to drive a car, receive loans,

832
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: sell and buy real estate and so on a whole

833
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: list of prohibitions. The other thing about this that's worth noting,

834
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean, this doesn't it doesn't guarantee that there's going

835
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: to be another draft, But I think you can kind

836
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 1: of read the writing on the wall of where he's

837
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: going with this and why they're setting all of this up.

838
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: But the other thing that was shocking is that this

839
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: just this really came out of nowhere. You know, it's

840
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 1: basically like in one day as fast through the Duma

841
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 1: and like said to be made into law. So really

842
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: caught people off guard and was quite shocking within Russia

843
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: again according to Yegor and his impression of what's going

844
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: on there. So this is a massive, you know, escalation

845
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: in terms of the population. It's also a reminder Russia

846
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: has a lot more people and a lot more men

847
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: that Putin is willing to just like throw into the

848
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: human meat grinder and horror of this war apparently with

849
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: you know, little regard for their lives or their injuries

850
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: or you know, the pain of their families. So as

851
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: horrific as as that situation is, it is a reminder that,

852
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: you know, time is not on Ukraine's side in terms

853
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: of thinking of how this war is going to be

854
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: brought to a conclusion. Russia continues to have an advantage

855
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: in terms of ability, you know, defense production. They certainly

856
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: have an advantage in terms of manpower. Yes, their war

857
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: efforts have been less than impressive thus far. But you

858
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: can also see in these documents the way that Ukraine

859
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: is really sort of struggling to hold this thing together.

860
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: And the analysis is that neither side is going to

861
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: be able to get beyond in the spring offensive a stalemate.

862
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: So at what point do you say, Okay, this is

863
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: actually the strongest position that Ukraine may be in for

864
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: a while in order to try to negotiate an end

865
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: to this war, some sort of diplomatic resolution that could

866
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, bring hopefully a lasting peace. And you know,

867
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: these things are never easy. It would be ugly, there

868
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: would be trade offs that shouldn't be made, but that

869
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: basically have to be made. But when you see the

870
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: just rob resources advantage that Russia has, I think there's

871
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: some hard decisions that have to be made here. Yeah,

872
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: I mean on Russia too. You know, that could rip

873
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: the country in half. Even more so you know in

874
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: terms of domestic turmoil, if they do a full scale

875
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: draft like that again maybe nic it wouldn't be something

876
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: good I think for an anybody who's involved here. All

877
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: let's talk about politicz All right, let's get to some

878
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: domestic politics here. As Counterpoints brought you yesterday, we now

879
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: sort of officially have another candidate in the race for

880
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 1: the Republican nomination, Senor Tim Scott of South Carolina. So

881
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: fresh off the announcement that he'd formed his presidential exploratory Committee,

882
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: he went on with Fox and Friends and got asked

883
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: in most obvious question of all time, one that everyone

884
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: has basically stumbled on, how are you going to actually,

885
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, how are you going to defeat Trump? Since

886
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: he is the clear frontrunner here. Let's take a listen

887
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: to what he has to say. Are you answering my

888
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: question about how you beat Donald Trump by saying that

889
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: your personal story is what's going to sell you to

890
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: the American people. What I'm saying in response to your

891
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: question is that the field of play is focusing on

892
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: President Biden's failures. What Americans want to see is a

893
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 1: contrast between the radical left and the blueprint to ruin

894
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: America and why our policies actually work. I believe that

895
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: Psalms one thirty nine tells us that we are all

896
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: uniquely and fearfully made. If we focus on our uniqueness,

897
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: we focus on our path to where we are. I

898
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: believe we give the voters a choice on so they

899
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: can decide how we move forward as opposed to trying

900
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: to have a conversation about how to beat a Republican.

901
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: I think we're better off having a conversation about beating

902
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. So focus on our uniqueness. That's his answer.

903
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: That is as lame as I'm not kicking sideways, I'm

904
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: kicking forward. You're running against Trump, dude, So what do

905
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: you have against Trump? Also? Trump literally endorsed you. That's

906
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: the most hilarious part. Trump has endorsed him, I think

907
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: twice and throughout the entire time, Like Tim Scott kissed

908
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: Trump's ass all throughout his presidency to get the first

909
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: step back passed, and now, like, what credible? This is

910
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: the funny thing too, about Tim Scott. What case do

911
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: you have, man? Trump actually did what you wanted to do.

912
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: You know, anything that you wanted done got done because

913
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: you kissed Trump's ass and then he endorsed you. What

914
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: credible case do you have to actually succeed him? I

915
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: don't know. I just think this is a tremendous exercise

916
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: in ego because he has only one constituency. It's basically

917
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: the liberal media who likes Tim Scott and likes to

918
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: prop him up, and also his own colleagues. His colleagues

919
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: think that he's like God's gift to politics. I mean,

920
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I think he's fine. He seems like a

921
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: genuinely nice guy, probably a good neighbor, but as a politician, like,

922
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: I don't see the skill at all. And I listened

923
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: to the people South Carolina. I think they agree with you.

924
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: I feel like Nicky Haley had kind of a liberal

925
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: media glow at one point. I feel like anybody who

926
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: associated themselves with Trump whatsoever, like any sort of liberal

927
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 1: media curiosity has long been gone. And I think that's

928
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: true for Tim Scott. I think it's true for Nicky

929
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: Haley as well. I am reminded of before he officially

930
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: announced his presdential exploratory, he went on with Sean Hannity,

931
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: and Hannity was the one he was on there a

932
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: streak for a while. That's the one where he got

933
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: the Nicky Haley like I'm not kicking sideways, I'm kicking forland.

934
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: That's oh so bad. And he asked him Scott at

935
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: the time, like, Okay, so you know what differences do

936
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: you have on a policy level with former President Trump.

937
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: Here's this quote, probably not very many at all. I'm

938
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: so thankful that we had President Trump and office. Frankly,

939
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,959
Speaker 1: the policies that we were able to pass from twenty

940
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: seventeen to twenty twenty more monumental. Thank god we went

941
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: into COVID with a strong economy, so that is you know,

942
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,879
Speaker 1: his official take on his policy disagreements with the former

943
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: president is like, you know, the other irony is that

944
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: oftentimes these people, to the extent they do have policy

945
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: difference from Trump, they're actually worse. As we've talked about,

946
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: less electable, like more to the right, with less popular

947
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: positioning on things like Medicare and social security, and Tim

948
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 1: Scott has a died in the role both social and

949
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 1: fiscal conservative you know, Reagan, Republican or whatever, very similar

950
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: to positioning as sort of like Mike Pence. But the

951
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: other thing we were debating is do you think that

952
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: people like this really think they can win or do

953
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: you think see I do too, I actually do think

954
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 1: they have that level of delusion. And then the other

955
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: piece that you can't take for granted is they have

956
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 1: a whole circle of aids and especially consultants who Tim

957
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: Scott will raise a good amount of money, millions of

958
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: dollars that he's going to spend on TV ads that

959
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: TV consultants, media consultants are going to get a hefty

960
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: slice of. So they have no interest in telling him

961
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: the truth. They want to prop him up, tell them, oh,

962
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: you have a laying and look, people are looking for

963
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: something different or whatever. They're telling him. So they have

964
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: a vested financial interest in basically lying to this man

965
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: about what his chances are, and he has a vested

966
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: ego interest in believing what they're selling him. I do

967
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 1: not think people can underestimate what it is like to

968
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 1: be one of these types of politicans, like a Tim Scott,

969
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: especially beloved by the donor class. His entire life is

970
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: lived inside of a bubble, interacting with geriatric boomer senators

971
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: who think they're like, oh, well, he's such a wels

972
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: you know, well spoken black Republican, like he can win

973
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: the black vote. That's literally how they think. On top

974
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: of billionaire donors who probably tell him the same thing.

975
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: That is his level of socialization, that is his entire life, like,

976
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: that's the bubble that he lives in. I mean, anybody

977
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: who lived in that type of reality, of course, they're

978
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: going to think that they could win, and then he know,

979
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: going back to South Carolina where it's like somewhat of

980
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: a popular politician, although we're about to get to not

981
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: all that popular. Yeah, where you know again you people

982
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: kiss your ass and constituent services meetings and yeah, you

983
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: can easily see how your ego becomes out of control. Yeah,

984
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: there is a hefty dose of conservative identity poolitics or anything.

985
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: They've already no doubt about it. Yeah. So there was

986
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: a poll out of South Carolina of the Republican primary.

987
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: All right, how are voters in his own home state

988
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: feeling about this potential run. Let's go put this up

989
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: on the screen. You will not be shocked to learn

990
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: Donald Trump number one at forty one percent. Ron DeSantis

991
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: number two at twenty percent. Nikki Haley, the former governor

992
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,839
Speaker 1: of the state of South Carolina, is in third there

993
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: at eighteen percent. Tim Scott in fourth in his own

994
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: home state at seven percent. He's not even the top

995
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: ranked South Carolinian, even close to it in this pole

996
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: of his home state. I think this was the poll

997
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: that I was looking at. It had favorability ratings for

998
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: a variety of politicians, including some of the prominent South

999
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: Carolina politicians like Tim Scott, like Lindsay Graham, like Nikki Haley.

1000
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: He does have a high approval rating in the state.

1001
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: People are sort of like, yeah, he's fine. Yeah, but

1002
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean, like what I said, he's a nice guy. Yeah,

1003
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean they're like, oh, we want you to

1004
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: be president. They may feel like, okay, yeah, he's fine,

1005
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, a good enough center whatever, you know,

1006
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: but that does not mean that they want you in Escana,

1007
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: she don't. Yeah, South Carolina's a number three state here.

1008
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: Trump is forty one percent in the number three primary. Like,

1009
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: am I the only person who feels like I'm taking

1010
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: crazy nails looking at this, Like forty that's a lot,

1011
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: and look at Santa's The's still twenty points behind. It

1012
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,439
Speaker 1: ain't like Nicki Haley's even all that popular. She's losing

1013
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: to somebody who's not even in the race, and then

1014
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,959
Speaker 1: Tim Scott's losing to her, right right. I don't know, man,

1015
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, it is

1016
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: like it's an amazing situation because you do get a

1017
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 1: little window into the bubbles that these people are in

1018
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: and the you know, self interested financial incentives of the

1019
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: consultant class that's around them. How disconnected the republic looking

1020
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: to owner classes from the base of the party, and

1021
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: that even now, I mean even now at this point. Listen,

1022
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: right after the midterms, when things went really poorly for Trump,

1023
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: there was very clear referend in there and they went

1024
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 1: great for Ron De Santis down in Florida, and it

1025
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: seemed like Trump was at this sort of like weakest moment.

1026
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: You know, then maybe I could buy here's your lane,

1027
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: and here now you have had time to see the

1028
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: way this is all going to play out, with the

1029
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: indictments and the rallying around Trump and the way he

1030
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: sucks up all of the oxygen. He makes everything about him,

1031
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: and the whole Republican primary is a litmus test about

1032
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: how you feel about this man, who, by the way,

1033
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: is going to be very likely the nominee. You've had

1034
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 1: a chance now to take all of that in, and

1035
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: still you're moving forward. I don't know. It's amazing levels

1036
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: of delusion and lack of connection to reality within the rebubble,

1037
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: especially whenever we're talking about Trump, who is not backing down, No,

1038
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: not backing down. So let's get to that. This was

1039
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: an interesting piece that we wanted to talk about from

1040
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: Benji Sarlin over some of four. Put this up on

1041
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 1: the screen. So he is warning, like, listen, even if

1042
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: Trump loses, let's say he loses the primary or wins

1043
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: the loses the general election, why are you assuming that

1044
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 1: that's going to be it for him? That he's just

1045
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 1: gonna Oh, that's that's so sad that I lost. I'm

1046
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 1: just gonna go home to mar A Lago and enjoy

1047
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: my grandchildren or whatever. His headline here is, don't assume

1048
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: this is Donald Trump's last run. And I think he

1049
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: makes some good points here. He says. It might seem

1050
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: a little early, even absurd to bring this up now,

1051
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 1: but a refusal to acknowledge Trump's comeback ambitions after twenty

1052
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,959
Speaker 1: twenty may have caused his Republican critics their last best

1053
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: chance to cut off his past denomination in twenty twenty four.

1054
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: Everyone in the party should proceed with eyes wide open now,

1055
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: however they decide to handle him this cycle. Let's start

1056
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: with one simple fact. President Biden will turn eighty two

1057
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,479
Speaker 1: just two weeks after election day twenty twenty four. Donald

1058
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: Trump will be the same age on election day twenty

1059
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: twenty eight. God is the ultimate decider when it comes

1060
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: to their political futures, but age alone is no guarantee

1061
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: against another run. Another fact, Trump is extremely predictable, does

1062
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: not acknowledge defeat. He lashes down at the people he

1063
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: blames for sabotaging him, and he responds to setbacks by

1064
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: trying to immediately prove his dominance. Again, there is little

1065
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,280
Speaker 1: reason to think a loss would prompt a different reaction

1066
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: this time. What did you think of this star? Yeah,

1067
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think it is correct, and I

1068
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: do think that I've just always said I think the

1069
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: Trump era ends the day that Donald Trump dies, because

1070
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: even if he's not the nominee, he will still be

1071
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 1: the driving force behind the party. The counterfactual I've been

1072
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: talking a lot about recently is Reagan. Reagan got out

1073
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 1: of office and basically pieced out. He retired from politics.

1074
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: He didn't actively engage. This is what a world would

1075
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: look like if Reagan had decided to stay engaged basically

1076
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: up until the end. Reagan actually did not particularly like

1077
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: George H. W. Bush, didn't agree with a lot of

1078
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: what he was doing, but said, I'm going to do

1079
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: my duty. I'm not going to talk against the president.

1080
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm not going to actively get involved in Republican races,

1081
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: and he kept his mouth shut and kind of let

1082
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: his legacy stand as he was also mentally declining. Well yeah,

1083
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: but it's not including when he was exclusive right part

1084
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: of the issue right, which is one of those things

1085
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: where he was willing to acknowledge that with grace and

1086
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: this kind of go away, whereas Trump is not willing

1087
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: to do that at all. Trump is like, I'm going

1088
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: to be engaged basically up until the end, up until

1089
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: I decide. I don't think a scrap of evidence exists

1090
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,000
Speaker 1: that says that even if he was on mental decline

1091
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: that he would stop. I mean, I think he would

1092
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: probably just become even more engaged. Is that what they

1093
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: say when you're older, like you just revert to like

1094
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,399
Speaker 1: your most base tendencies. So probably, yeah, mostly that makes sense.

1095
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: So the thing is with Trump is there's no reason

1096
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: to think that he would just back out in twenty

1097
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 1: twenty four, like and even if he did, he would

1098
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: endorse somebody, and he would keep the game going up

1099
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: until the last moment and make everybody kiss his ass

1100
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: up until the end. And it all just depends on

1101
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: whether the base is still going to care about that

1102
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: from what we know right now, Yeah, they do. They

1103
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 1: aren't going to care what he has to say. Maybe

1104
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,439
Speaker 1: they don't, Maybe they don't in twenty twenty twenty eight.

1105
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: It's certainly possible. It's a long way away, but you

1106
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: know where things currently stand. Why wouldn't you if you're

1107
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. He loves attention more than anything else on

1108
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: the planet. That's what he would do well. And we

1109
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: talked about it right after January sixth. You know, there

1110
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: was a real sort of like shock within a lot

1111
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: of Republicans. It comes out in the Fox News text.

1112
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about Fox News in a

1113
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: minute about how like horrified some of the hosts were,

1114
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 1: politicians like Kevin McCarthy even messaging him on that day,

1115
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell coming out and you know, decrying what happened

1116
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: and being pretty, you know, pretty decently strong language against

1117
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: Trump on all of that. And the public public opinion

1118
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: was overwhelmingly disgusted with January sixth and what happened and

1119
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: Trump's role in it and all of that, and maybe

1120
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 1: maybe there was an opening there if a Republican party

1121
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: really wanted to move on from Trump. I'm talking about

1122
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: Republican elites here, because there's no sun in the base

1123
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,359
Speaker 1: really wants to move on from. But Republican elites at

1124
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: that point they at least had a hand to play.

1125
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: They could have if they acted in concert, tried to

1126
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 1: you know, barrow him from running from office again or

1127
00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: you know, directly impeaching or at least settling on an

1128
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: narrative about January sixth and consistently like messaging it that

1129
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: was unfavorable to Donald Trump. But instead, after like a

1130
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,720
Speaker 1: week or two of making some noises about being unhappy

1131
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 1: about it, they either stopped talking about it or they

1132
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: basically adopted whatever his framing of the day was. And

1133
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: so to the extent that there was an opening there,

1134
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: and I think that's probably the biggest opening that there

1135
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: has been for the Republican Party to rid itself of Trump.

1136
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: They you know, they folded and they hoped you would

1137
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: just go away. And that's kind of what Benji is

1138
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,240
Speaker 1: getting at here, is like you see it playing out again.

1139
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 1: I mean, we just played you Tim Scott being like, eh,

1140
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: I'm not even willing to say the word Trump. Ron

1141
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: DeSantis over and over again, not even willing to say

1142
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: the word Trump, Nikki Haley, I'm not kicking sideways. Like

1143
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: to this day, they're still unable to reckon with the

1144
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 1: fact that you either got to do something to get

1145
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 1: rid of this dude or else you just should accept

1146
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: that he is going to be the Republican Party until

1147
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: the day that he dies. And there seems to be

1148
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: no awareness of that, no recognition of that, no ability

1149
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: or willingness to do anything about it. And so yeah,

1150
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: this is going to be the play that just continues

1151
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: to repeat itself over and over again. I think that's right.

1152
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: Fox News, as you know, they are in some serious

1153
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: legal trouble here with regard to the election lives that

1154
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: they platformed in the wake of twenty twenty, and especially

1155
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: with regards to what they said about the dominion voting systems,

1156
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: or at least what they allowed on their air about

1157
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: dominion voting systems. Now, we have already covered here some

1158
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: of the very embarrassing text messages that have come out

1159
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: about how Tucker Carlson really feels about Donald Trump, about

1160
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 1: how they knew that basically some of these things that

1161
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: were being said were total bullshit. They thought Sidney Powell

1162
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: was a crazy person because she is a crazy person,

1163
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: but then they would put her on air and like

1164
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: take her seriously like she wasn't well. Now, the latest

1165
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: shooter drop, let's put this up on the screen, is

1166
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: that the Delaware Superior Court judge who was overseeing this

1167
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: defamation lawsuit multi billion dollar by the way, defamation lawsuit

1168
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: against Fox, they just sanctioned Fox and their parent company,

1169
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: Fox Corporation for withholding evidence in the dominion defamation suit.

1170
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: And the judge said that he's considering further investigation and censure.

1171
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: So basically what happened here is lawyers for Dominion Voting

1172
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: Systems came into court and played recordings of a Fox

1173
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: News producer in twenty twenty that was not handed over

1174
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: to them during discovery until like a week ago. So

1175
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: this process has been going on now for like over

1176
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: a year and they just were given this latest recording

1177
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: which has in her deposition, she says she's a former

1178
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: producer for Fox host Maria Barbaroma and Tucker Carlson. She

1179
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 1: sued Fox News and said her deposition was coerced and amended.

1180
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: Filing Tuesday. She said she had recorded conversations with Rudy

1181
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: Giuliani Sidney Palell and others. And again those are the

1182
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: recordings that Dominion was just given access to. The Other

1183
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: piece here, which is kind of weird is they lied

1184
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: about whether Rupert Murdoch was actually like what level of

1185
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: title he held at Fox News because they wanted to

1186
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: sort of insulate him, like, oh, Ruper didn't really have

1187
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: anything to do with what was going on at Fox News,

1188
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: even though some of the messages from him would indicate otherwise.

1189
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: But they out and out hid what his actual role

1190
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: was at Fox News, which is like sort of crazy

1191
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: because how did you think that that wasn't going to

1192
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: come out? Yeah? I agree, I mean I think one

1193
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: of the weird things that really comes out throughout this

1194
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 1: entire thing is Rupert Murdoch unable to reconcile kind of

1195
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: the empire that he built and also putting the company

1196
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: in significant like legal jeopardy and also financial damage because

1197
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 1: at this point Dominion has gotten and gained so much

1198
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: ground Crystal they feel no need to reach any sort

1199
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: of settlement outside of the one billion or so dollar

1200
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: Ranger suing for one point six billion, and now the

1201
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: reputational damage to Fox not only from the text, but

1202
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: what is coming from the trial after being censored. Now

1203
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: is they very male may have to call Tucker Hannity

1204
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: and some of the top talent to the stand in

1205
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 1: open court, which would be a disaster growth. Yeah, under

1206
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: oath same and it would be a disaster too for

1207
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch. I mean again the damage that this would

1208
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: occur to the overall brand too. It's already like having

1209
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: schism with Trump. I think is already you know, well

1210
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: passed what settlement is. And apparently people inside the company

1211
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 1: are furious with him for not just settling the case

1212
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: for exactly the reasons that I'm talking about. Yeah, maybe

1213
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 1: he just maybe he just doesn't care. Like he's worth

1214
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: like fifty sixty billion dollars, so I don't know what

1215
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: a billion six. Also, he's very elderly. He's old to

1216
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: an infirm and has had major health issue. Let me

1217
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: read this part also from the profile. Yeah, nuts face

1218
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: up on the screen. This is from a Gabe Sherman

1219
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: over at Vanity Fair who has this in depth profile

1220
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 1: of Rupert Murdoch and the real crux of what he's

1221
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 1: talking about here is the sort of succession drama that's

1222
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: playing out within the Murdoch empire because he has these

1223
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,920
Speaker 1: two sons, Lachlan and James, who are kind of at

1224
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 1: war with one another. Ruper really pitted them at war

1225
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: with one another over control of the organization. Lachlan is

1226
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 1: more ideologically aligned with Fox News. James is more like

1227
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 1: resistance friendly and wants to do a bit of a

1228
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: U turn one in terms of the way that you know,

1229
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 1: the type of content that Fox puts down, the type

1230
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: of positions that they take. So there's this behind the

1231
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: scenes war as Murdoch is very aged and everybody's looking

1232
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: towards Okay, what happens when this guy is kind of

1233
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: how old he is not well known. Here's what they say.

1234
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: Quote Murdoch has suffered a broken back, seizures, two bounds

1235
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 1: of pneumonia, atrial fibrillation, and a torn achilles tendon, as

1236
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: well as a terrible bout with COVID nineteen. So he's

1237
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: ninety one or ninety two years old. That is brutal.

1238
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: So that also gets to you know, a decision making

1239
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: and whether he's even in the right state of mind

1240
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: to be doing this. Yeah, yeah, if I were one

1241
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: of obviously it's tough, you know, when you're dealing with

1242
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: your dad and all that. But the bottom line is

1243
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: that for Fox itself, like this is a this is bad,

1244
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: especially with what's going on right now. Well then with

1245
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: the judge the money quote from that Gabe Sherman piece

1246
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: is the dominion lawsuit is the worst crisis of the

1247
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: network I've seen. And Gabriel Sherman, by the way, he's

1248
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: done in depth, you know, Yeah, he wrote the Roger

1249
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,040
Speaker 1: Ails biography I talk about all the time right exactly

1250
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: in their own words. Fox hosts have been exposed as propagandist.

1251
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: Here's a quote from a senior Fox staffer. He said,

1252
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: if we lose this suit, it's effing bad. As far

1253
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: as Murdoch himself goes, you know, the picture that comes

1254
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: out is someone who's kind of lost control over the empire,

1255
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 1: at least the Fox News portion of the empire in

1256
01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 1: a way because he initially, you know, really didn't like

1257
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: some of the election fraud stuff. He wanted them to

1258
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: sort of tamp down on it. It is basically overruled

1259
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: by the hosts who saw the ratings going down. They

1260
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: were worried about One America News and they worried about Newsmax,

1261
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: and so after this brief flirtation after the election of

1262
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: actually being like, well, no, Joe Biden really did win.

1263
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: Then they did, you know, an about face and started

1264
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: leaning into ur let's have Sidney pal on, let's have

1265
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: Rudy Guliani on, Let's make sure we give credence to

1266
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: some of the nonsense that was, you know, the most

1267
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 1: insane of the stop to steal stuff they say. According

1268
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: to Dominion's court filings, Murdoch protected Fox News ratings by

1269
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: allowing the network's host and guests to propote a batshit

1270
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: crazy theory that algorithms inside Dominion machines secretly switch votes

1271
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: to Biden to steal the election somehow at the behest

1272
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: of the Venezuelan government. There's a couple other pieces here

1273
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: that are very interesting, which relate to the twenty twenty

1274
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: four discussion we were just having, which is, according to

1275
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: this Murdoch actually wanted a post Trump future, as many

1276
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: Republican aligned elites do. Shortly before the twenty twenty election,

1277
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 1: according to a source, Murdoch invited Flora Governor Ron De

1278
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: Santis and his wife Casey for lunch at Murdoch's vineyard.

1279
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: As they dined outside on steak. This is again before

1280
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election. Murdoch told DeSantis then that Fox

1281
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 1: News would support him for president in twenty twenty four. Right, So,

1282
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 1: a couple things that are obvious from that statement. Number one,

1283
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 1: the idea that Fox News is just like, oh, fair

1284
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 1: and balanced and we're fine. No, this is a this

1285
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: has always been an explicitly political organization, you know, above

1286
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 1: and beyond anything else. As number one, like to actively

1287
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 1: tell him like, no, I'm going to from the top down,

1288
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: We're going to back you in twenty twenty four is

1289
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 1: pretty wild. That's how Roger Ayles used to run the

1290
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: company too, with George W. Books. Oh yeah, aad cruise absolutely,

1291
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 1: And you know, I think the real story is that

1292
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 1: they just have less influence. Now, well, that's the other

1293
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 1: piece of this is he can say all he wants like, oh,

1294
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: you know, Fox News is behind Ron DeSantis, and we've

1295
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: shown you the evidence of they have been behind Rond DeSantis.

1296
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: But it does it doesn't matter, does not, movingly doesn't

1297
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: matter at Yeah, and I don't think that would have

1298
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: been true in another era. They had so much influence

1299
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: with the base and they really set the narrative. And yeah,

1300
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 1: I think it's a commentary on just the media landscape

1301
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: that exists now. You just can't have that tight control anymore,

1302
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: and people are gonna they are gonna make up their

1303
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 1: minds to themselves if they are hearing from you. Ronda

1304
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: Stances is the great They Okay, he's fine, but you

1305
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: know what, I'm also watching Newsmax or watching One American News,

1306
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: or I'm looking at Facebook or Daily Wire or whatever,

1307
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: and I'm I still like the guy that was here before,

1308
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: and the fact that you've got your hosts selling me

1309
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: Ronda Santis doesn't really matter to me. Yeah, that was

1310
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: my takeaway too. I'm not going to do any succession spoilers,

1311
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: but there is a part in season three where like

1312
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 1: the idea is is that Logan Roy is like this

1313
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch character, and they're like, we're gonna go pick

1314
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 1: the next president. And the idea was that like behind

1315
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: the scenes, like the Fox News whatever, it's representative, it's

1316
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: called ATN and so the show they're like, we're gonna

1317
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: go and pick that, and I remember watching it and

1318
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: being like this is old, Like this is not how

1319
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: it works anymore. This is maybe two thousand and eight. Yeah,

1320
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 1: you can make a case for that. But today I'm like,

1321
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: this is this actually is wrong, Like that's just not

1322
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 1: how it works in terms of how the base is

1323
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: able to get its information. Yeah, they're on True Social

1324
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: or on YouTube like you know, some Tim Poole show,

1325
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: like a million other places. Yeah, that they can get it.

1326
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 1: They don't need Fox to tilt the thing for them. Yeah,

1327
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: so they'll never get over that. I think the last

1328
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: piece that we just added in because it is also revealing,

1329
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: is MSBC got their hands on some audio of an

1330
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: actual Trump campaign official, oh right, telling a Fox News

1331
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: producer that there were no problems with the dominion voting machines. Okay, again,

1332
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: a Trump campaign person telling Fox News no issueses that

1333
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,919
Speaker 1: dominion voting machines. Take a listen to this. Are any

1334
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: of the machines? I know it was on War Room

1335
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: the other day with Steve ben And have any of

1336
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 1: the machines been looked at? He had said that one

1337
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:56,520
Speaker 1: was looked at in Georgia. I'd have to check on

1338
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 1: that in terms of Georgia. I know during the audit

1339
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: they did check on those machines. They're really good. If

1340
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: you just go off the record for one secure, Yeah,

1341
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 1: should come. I would. I don't want us to say

1342
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: it if it's not. That's why we're talking. I would,

1343
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: I would. I think they have looked at the machines

1344
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 1: when the when the Secretary of State did its audit, Uh,

1345
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 1: there was a lot of I think a fair bit

1346
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 1: of looking at the machines. You know, the audit came

1347
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: in pretty ear and close to what the machine count

1348
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: was with the receipts, so you know, I don't know

1349
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: the outcome of those, but are understanding again the sort

1350
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 1: of Secretary of State's office is that there weren't any

1351
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 1: physical issues with machines of those inspections, and that was

1352
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: from December fifth of twenty twenty, just to give you

1353
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 1: a sense of the timeline here. But yeah, no physical

1354
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 1: issues with the dominion footing machines. And this is highly

1355
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: relevant for the legal case because dominion has to prove

1356
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: that they knew this was wrong. It's like the actual malice.

1357
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: So that would they call like they knew that it

1358
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:03,720
Speaker 1: was wrong and incorrect and a bunch of lies and

1359
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: they pushed it forward anyways, So that's why audio like

1360
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: this is relevant to the legal case. I mean, it's

1361
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 1: just humiliating funny too that he has to go off

1362
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:12,400
Speaker 1: the record to be like, yeah, we looked at the

1363
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: machiet I know, right to admit that the yeah you

1364
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: that guy was on TV talking about how they need

1365
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 1: to do an audit. Well they did and there's nothing there.

1366
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: Well yeah, anyway, embarrassing nonetheless for all of the parties

1367
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: who are involved. Yes, speaking of embarrassing, Elon Musk sat

1368
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: down for this was like on Twitter spaces first, right,

1369
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: but also but there was also video for the BBCs,

1370
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,600
Speaker 1: So you guys might have seen this initial initially in

1371
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 1: just audio format and then you might have seen the

1372
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: full video. But there's a particular moment from this BBC

1373
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,440
Speaker 1: interview that did not go particularly well for the interviewer.

1374
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: With regards to hate speech. Let's take a listen to

1375
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 1: that content you don't like or or hateful. What do

1376
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: you to subscribe a hateful thing? Yeah, I mean, you know,

1377
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: just content that will solicit a reaction to something that

1378
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 1: may include something that is slightly racist or slightly sexist,

1379
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: those kinds of those kinds of things. So you think

1380
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,560
Speaker 1: something is slightly sexist, it should be banned. No, what

1381
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 1: you're saying, I'm not saying anything I'm just curious what

1382
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say, what you mean by hateful content content.

1383
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,559
Speaker 1: I'm asking for specific examples and if and you just

1384
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: said that if something is slightly sexist, that's hateful content,

1385
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 1: and does that mean that it should be bad? When

1386
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: you've asked me, you've asked me whether my feed, whether

1387
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 1: it's got less or more, I'd say it's got slightly more.

1388
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 1: That's what I'm asking for examples. Can you name one example?

1389
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 1: I honestly don't you. Honestly, I don't name a single example.

1390
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why, because I don't actually use that

1391
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 1: for you feed anymore, because I just don't sickly like it.

1392
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: You actually a lot of people, a lot of people

1393
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 1: are quite similar. I only well, you said you've seen

1394
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: more hateful content. You can't name a single example, not

1395
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: even one. I'm not sure I've used that feed for

1396
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: the last three or four weeks. And although, how did

1397
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 1: you see the hapel content content? Because I've been I've

1398
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: been using I've been using Twister since you've taken it

1399
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 1: over for the last six months, because then you must

1400
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,559
Speaker 1: have at some point seeing that you for you hateful content.

1401
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: I'm asking for one example right, and you can't give

1402
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: us some more And I'm saying, then, I say so

1403
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: that you don't know what you're talking about. Honestly, that

1404
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 1: wide messed up so bad when he lied and claimed that,

1405
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I've been seeing more hateful content in my feed,

1406
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: Like you didn't have to do that. You could have

1407
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: just like, if you're going to make a big claim

1408
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 1: like that number one, you need to have some example.

1409
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: Here's the video, here's the data from a reputable source.

1410
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 1: And but the and Elon clearly smells blood. The minute

1411
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 1: that he said, oh yeah, in my feed, I've seen

1412
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 1: more hateful content, is like, oh, really, tell me about it.

1413
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 1: But it does. I mean, first of all, so there's

1414
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 1: a couple other pieces of this interview that we want

1415
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 1: to show you, but one of the things that portion

1416
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,600
Speaker 1: underscored for me is that they go after some of

1417
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 1: the mistakes and flaws of Elon's ownership of Twitter in

1418
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,560
Speaker 1: all the wrong ways. Like the real critique of Elon's

1419
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 1: Twitter handling is first of all, I mean, it's just

1420
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: been like it's a chaos, It's total chaos. Things are breaking,

1421
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't work as well, it's full of ads, like

1422
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: the user experience is way worse. But then the other

1423
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,600
Speaker 1: thing is he claimed he was going to run it

1424
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 1: in this free speech manner, and he just hasn't. I mean,

1425
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: he just banned substack links and went to war with

1426
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 1: Matt tayev over like, so the idea that he was

1427
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: going to buy this and have this like consistent free

1428
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: speech principled approach, he just has failed at that. And

1429
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 1: so their inability to prosecute that case leaves them on

1430
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: very weak ground with regard to what they're actually trying

1431
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: to say here. Oh yeah, so, I mean, there's just

1432
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 1: no question. And also Glenn Greenwall flagged this. Really what

1433
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: he was doing is he was parroting the report by

1434
01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: a place called the Institution for Strategic Dialogue. It's going

1435
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 1: to put this up there on the screen. After he

1436
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,320
Speaker 1: was caught lying, he finally pretends he has no view.

1437
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: He's just repeating the claims of ISD global, which has

1438
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,479
Speaker 1: said that Twitter is more hateful and you know, lo

1439
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: and behold this. Isd global is funded by a bunch

1440
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: of European defense ministries and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation,

1441
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 1: and the O mid Yard Group, the Open Society Foundation,

1442
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: the Soros, people like government and other technology companies Google, Facebook, Microsoft, YouTube.

1443
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 1: I mean, this is part of the problem with the

1444
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 1: disinformation industrial complex, which we will actually have a whole

1445
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,679
Speaker 1: guest on to talk about today, is just that it's

1446
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: this architecture of like NGOs, non governmental organizations, which just

1447
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 1: create these fake statistics which their mouthpieces in the tech

1448
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:26,560
Speaker 1: press can use as evidence. Like if you have examples

1449
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 1: cited in your feed that you can show him, that's

1450
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: one thing. But to just say it with no like,

1451
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: with no evidence and then immediately back down, you just

1452
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 1: look like a fool, and you are a fool. You

1453
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:38,720
Speaker 1: are a fool. Also, any I mean even if you

1454
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 1: did have like a personal anecdote, that's not really evidence,

1455
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 1: Like Sarah, I could have a personal anecdote of careful

1456
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 1: stuff that was in my feed before Elon probably over. Yeah.

1457
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: I think it also exposes that a lot of the

1458
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 1: people who have these, you know, concerns about misinformation and

1459
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: want are on the side of more censorship from social

1460
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,760
Speaker 1: media companies, they don't have a deeply formed, coherent view

1461
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: of about it. So when Elon's like, so you want

1462
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: anything that's like mildly sexist to be banned, I mean,

1463
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 1: who's going to decide that I think even at one

1464
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 1: point in the interview is like what is the BBC

1465
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: going to decide? Like Who's going to decide it? And

1466
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 1: that does kind of get to the know the core

1467
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:18,000
Speaker 1: issues here. Jack Dorsey had I thought a thoughtful post

1468
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 1: about what he viewed to some of his failings of

1469
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: Twitter in the way he would do things differently, and

1470
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,760
Speaker 1: the core of his argument was vesting these sorts of

1471
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 1: powers of who gets to say what and what stays

1472
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,760
Speaker 1: up and how you're going to handle all of these

1473
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: genuinely complex free speech issues. It's too much of a

1474
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: responsibility and too much of a burden put on any

1475
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 1: one individual. And so the whole setup in construction of

1476
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 1: these social media companies where they claim all the power

1477
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 1: for themselves to be the judge, jury, and executioner, that

1478
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 1: whole setup is really bankrupt and you're never going to

1479
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: solve these problems as long as that is the core

1480
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 1: model of the social media companies. Now, there are some

1481
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: that have, like you know, experimented with Master John's the

1482
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 1: only one that I know of that has less of

1483
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 1: like hierarchical approach. I've never been on mass down, so

1484
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 1: I don't really fully understand it. But there are some

1485
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: sort of like experiments out there for how to do

1486
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:14,880
Speaker 1: this differently. But obviously the main platforms right now of

1487
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook, et cetera, they all rely on this

1488
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: centralized control and it ends up being a disaster. And

1489
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 1: so let me show you another piece here that, in

1490
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:26,679
Speaker 1: my opinion, is a lot less of a good look

1491
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 1: for Elon Musk, where he's asked about Twitter banning a

1492
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 1: BBC documentary that is critical of Narendra Modi. Let's take

1493
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 1: a listen to that. We then believe that some of

1494
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 1: those some of that content was taken off Twitter, was

1495
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: that the behest of the Indian government. I'm not aware

1496
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 1: of that. Sure, I don't know. I don't know about that.

1497
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: You know what's exactly happened in some content sitution. The

1498
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 1: rules of the idea for what can appear on social

1499
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 1: media quite strict, and we can't go beyond the worst

1500
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:02,600
Speaker 1: of But do you get that if you do not

1501
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: intentialized countries around the world to some people passing more

1502
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 1: draconian laws. No, but what if we have a choice

1503
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: of either our people go to prison or we apply

1504
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 1: with the laws. We'll comply with the laws. The same

1505
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 1: goes with the BBC, so he tries to just play them, Oh,

1506
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you're trying. Come on, I

1507
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 1: ready know this has been an obviously know what you're

1508
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,679
Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, Actually that that stance is not one

1509
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 1: that the US government has looked kindly to or the

1510
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 1: US public, and often that has been part of the problem,

1511
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 1: which is that we look at it and we'll be

1512
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 1: like we're, oh, well, we're just complying with local regulation,

1513
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, okay, we'll hold on a second.

1514
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: Like your whole thing is about values and prison It's like,

1515
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 1: so are you saying that you just value like business more.

1516
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:46,720
Speaker 1: If you do, then say that that's actually fine, but

1517
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 1: just be honest about what you're doing well. And that

1518
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:51,640
Speaker 1: is what he seems to be hinting at, is like, oh,

1519
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 1: I just got to follow the loss. So if they

1520
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 1: need governments, then that's got to be taken down. Then

1521
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,840
Speaker 1: it's got to be taken down. But then you think about, okay,

1522
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:01,720
Speaker 1: so if there's like Twitter in Afghanistan, are you going

1523
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:04,800
Speaker 1: to follow like what the Taliban I mean allows on Twitter.

1524
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 1: If you're in Saudi, are you going to like follow

1525
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:11,200
Speaker 1: what you know? Ksa says is allowed on Twitter, and

1526
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they answer the answer seems to be yes.

1527
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:20,640
Speaker 1: But that is far from the free speech promotion that

1528
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: he sold when he purchased Twitter. That allows, you know,

1529
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: authoritarian regimes to censor in any way that they want.

1530
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 1: Allows really the US government if they come in and say, hey,

1531
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: you got to take this down, then hey, it's the

1532
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 1: local you know, local law. They've got the right to

1533
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,040
Speaker 1: do it. Who's to say against them? So I thought

1534
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 1: that was a much more interesting and revelatory line of

1535
01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:44,840
Speaker 1: questioning there from this journalist. And just to show you

1536
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 1: like he knows what he's talking about here, this is

1537
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 1: not some new issue just put on his radar. He

1538
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 1: had actually responded to a question about this Indian Modi

1539
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: documentary before put this up on the screen, so he

1540
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 1: had gotten a question about it, and he said, oh,

1541
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:02,879
Speaker 1: it's the first I've heard of it. It's not possible

1542
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: for me to fix every aspect of Twitter worldwide overnight

1543
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 1: while still running Tesla and SpaceX, among other things. So

1544
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,679
Speaker 1: very defensive here and sort of uses the same dodge

1545
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 1: of like, oh, I had no idea this was going on, okay,

1546
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:16,640
Speaker 1: but now you do know what's going on. So what

1547
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,040
Speaker 1: are you going to do about it, because it is

1548
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 1: a pretty significant, high profile example of you taking an

1549
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 1: action that is at odds with the at least the

1550
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 1: stated principles that you bought the platform with. Yes, absolutely

1551
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 1: totally agree. At the same time, this is just a

1552
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:31,759
Speaker 1: little funny coda here. Put this up on the screen

1553
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 1: so you know MPR had been designated what do they

1554
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 1: say state affiliated media on Twitter. NPR has now quit

1555
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:43,479
Speaker 1: Twitter after what they say being falsely labeled as state

1556
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:50,919
Speaker 1: affiliated media. They sent a message to their journalist explaining

1557
01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 1: the decision. They said would be a disservice to the

1558
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 1: serious work you all do here to continue to share

1559
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:57,599
Speaker 1: it on a platform that is associating the Federal Charter

1560
01:17:57,680 --> 01:18:01,720
Speaker 1: for Public Media with an abandoning of aial independence or standards.

1561
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:05,680
Speaker 1: They're giving a two week grace period so staff who

1562
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:08,480
Speaker 1: run the Twitter accounts can revise their social media strategies,

1563
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: and they say that individual NPR journalists and staffers can

1564
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 1: decide for themselves whether they are going to stay on

1565
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 1: the platform or not. What's also hilarious is that PBS

1566
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 1: is now joining NPR their brethren over being upset that

1567
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 1: they are labeled as government funded media. Guys, it's called

1568
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:32,080
Speaker 1: the Public Broadcasting Network. It's like, how can you deny that?

1569
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 1: It's not, like, how is that some sort of besmirching

1570
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:39,759
Speaker 1: of your editorially independence. You can claim you're editorially independent,

1571
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 1: most people don't believe you, saying with NPR, it's like, well, look,

1572
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 1: you do get the vast majority of your funding from

1573
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 1: the government, So I mean it's sorry vast majority. You

1574
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: get a portion of your funding from the government. In

1575
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: the case of PBS, you get a significant portion. NPR

1576
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 1: has literally said that federal funding for NPR is vital

1577
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 1: to their operations despite outside you therefore are state funded media.

1578
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:01,880
Speaker 1: There's simply no guest around it. And they really what

1579
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 1: it is is that they can't stand being labeled this

1580
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: way because it just exposes who they are, Like they

1581
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:09,880
Speaker 1: want to have their cake and eat it too. They

1582
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:11,760
Speaker 1: don't want to be cast as state funded, and they

1583
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,799
Speaker 1: want to claim that they're editorially completely independent, funding wise

1584
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:19,560
Speaker 1: from anything that keeps them from reporting on power, Like

1585
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 1: that's just truly not the case. And so I don't

1586
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 1: know why they answers the problem with the truth. Well,

1587
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:27,160
Speaker 1: what I would really like to see personally is corporate

1588
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 1: affiliated right media labeled because that is, I mean, those

1589
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 1: companies get the bulk of their revenue from advertising and

1590
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 1: are like deeply conflicted, and so I would love to

1591
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: see some labeling to that regard. Not that people don't

1592
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, people don't really need these labels, like they

1593
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 1: know what's going on here. There was an exchange in

1594
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 1: that BBC interview because BBC was also labeled state affiliated Media,

1595
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 1: and Elon was floating like maybe I'll change the label

1596
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: to publicly funded media or something like that. He was like,

1597
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: you would that make you feel better? So anyway, that's

1598
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 1: where things stand right now. As I guess Elon is

1599
01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:05,720
Speaker 1: mulling weight whether he might shift the title somewhat or

1600
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: which wants to hold your guns? We don't need NPR

1601
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 1: on two. We'll be consistent, be consistent about it though,

1602
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 1: because that's the thing is, it's like very selectively applied

1603
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 1: as a troll to the companies that he felt like

1604
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,120
Speaker 1: targeting and going after. But like I said, if you

1605
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 1: want to do something genuinely useful, I would label all

1606
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 1: the corporate mainstream media corporate affiliated press. Label them all right? Sorry,

1607
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 1: really looking at well. Biden's EPA announced an ambitious new

1608
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:33,600
Speaker 1: target yesterday requiring two thirds of new car sales in

1609
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 1: the United States to be fully electric by twenty thirty two.

1610
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 1: The nine year effective moonshot actually starts even earlier than

1611
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: it sounds, because the order requires that a minimum of

1612
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,679
Speaker 1: fifty four percent of all new cars be fully electric

1613
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 1: by twenty thirty. This represents a titanic shift in the

1614
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 1: US automative policy that sounds nice on paper and today, though,

1615
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:55,800
Speaker 1: I really want to dive into and see if this

1616
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:59,559
Speaker 1: is realistic and even advantageous. Let's start with the present day.

1617
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 1: How many electric cars are on the road present? Presently,

1618
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 1: electric cars make up five point six percent of all

1619
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 1: cars and trucks sold in twenty twenty two, up from

1620
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 1: one point eight percent just two years earlier. While that

1621
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:14,360
Speaker 1: certainly is parabolic, we are still talking about what is

1622
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 1: effectively a niche market and turning it into the dominant

1623
01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 1: mode of new transportation in less than a decade. Is

1624
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 1: this feasible in any way? Now? The answer is kind

1625
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 1: of yes. But the unfortunate part is that Biden has

1626
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 1: not done really anything else to prepare the world or

1627
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 1: America for this. First thing, what is the most important

1628
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:35,719
Speaker 1: part of an electric vehicle? The battery. Who makes those batteries,

1629
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 1: what goes in them? Not only is it not us,

1630
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 1: but we are losing by several orders of magnitude. Today,

1631
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 1: China produces seventy six percent of globally lithium ion battery

1632
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 1: cells worldwide, including those going to most US electric vehicles.

1633
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: The US is number two in rare earths. But we

1634
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 1: have a major problem. Chinese reserves of rare earth minerals

1635
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:59,519
Speaker 1: required for evs actually outstripped the entire production of what

1636
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 1: America made just last year. We have no reserves. Worse,

1637
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: if you look at the countries that do have them,

1638
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 1: we are not exactly on the best terms, including Brazil, Russia,

1639
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 1: and India. Why would they sell it to US and

1640
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 1: not China. We have less economies of scale for production.

1641
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:17,160
Speaker 1: We have less EV sales than China, which dominates sixty

1642
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:19,640
Speaker 1: percent of the global market. It's not like America is

1643
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 1: an easy place to actually build anything whenever it comes

1644
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,759
Speaker 1: to mining. And critics of my position will say, well, Soger,

1645
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 1: this presumes lithium ion batteries remains the standard for evs.

1646
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:31,480
Speaker 1: But here's the issue. We're so far behind on EV technology.

1647
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: We don't even really have a chance with the second generation.

1648
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 1: China already makes up sixty percent of the world EV market,

1649
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 1: and it is investing heavily in a battery supply chain

1650
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 1: that both ditches lithium and includes sodium because they are first. Quote,

1651
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,680
Speaker 1: in two years, China will have ninety six percent of

1652
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 1: the world's capacity to make sodium batteries. Now, it may

1653
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 1: sound like we may make up the ground, but it

1654
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:55,559
Speaker 1: is not easy. They have been investing this for over

1655
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:58,679
Speaker 1: a decade, graduates of top universities or studying this tech.

1656
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: They state subsidize the companies that make these batteries to

1657
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 1: undercut any private Western competition, and they have a stranglehold

1658
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:07,880
Speaker 1: even on the largest EV makers here in the United States,

1659
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:10,679
Speaker 1: like Elon Musk, who is currently building a new facility

1660
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 1: in Shanghai and appears to have no qualms of doing

1661
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 1: business with the CCP. Building an alternative EV supply chain

1662
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: that we would control requires an investment of minimum of

1663
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:22,800
Speaker 1: hundreds of billions of dollars, if not trillions of dollars.

1664
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:25,639
Speaker 1: Right now, the Biden EV future looks like one where

1665
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:28,639
Speaker 1: the dominant mode of transportation in this country is completely

1666
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 1: reliant on a country that is our main geopolitical rival

1667
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,799
Speaker 1: that sounds really dumb to me. Again, it can be avoided,

1668
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 1: but only with a serious Apollo style program requiring national

1669
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 1: buy in and absolute gobs of state funded infrastructure, which

1670
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: last time I looked at the US Senate, probably not

1671
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:47,759
Speaker 1: going to happen. Next, let's look at the other problem.

1672
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 1: Where will we charge these evs? Right now, there are

1673
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 1: approximately one hundred and forty five thousand gas stations in

1674
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 1: the United States, which is actually historic low. With evs,

1675
01:23:57,120 --> 01:24:00,479
Speaker 1: we have about five three hundred chargers That sound like

1676
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:03,599
Speaker 1: a lot, but it is actually not because the average

1677
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 1: fill time on a car at a gas station is

1678
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 1: only two minutes, meaning that you can service thousands of

1679
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:11,679
Speaker 1: customers per day. Even on a level two charger. On average,

1680
01:24:11,720 --> 01:24:13,560
Speaker 1: it takes about four to ten hours to charge a

1681
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 1: car from empty to full. You can get around this

1682
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 1: with things like Tesla superchargers, which will get you a

1683
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 1: decent range in twenty minutes, but the numbers on them

1684
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 1: for publicly available dismal. There are approximately twenty eight thousand

1685
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 1: fast chargers distributed across the US. The Biden administration only

1686
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 1: has current plans to fund approximately five thousand more factory

1687
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 1: in the twenty minutes or so that it will take

1688
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 1: for the average EV battery to fill up here, and

1689
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 1: you are looking at a catastrophic mismatch in infrastructure that

1690
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 1: exists today to make this a part of day to

1691
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:44,439
Speaker 1: day life. Now. Of course, this is not the only

1692
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 1: way to charge your car. You can do so at home,

1693
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:49,599
Speaker 1: but this also cost money. Right now, the average cost

1694
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:52,120
Speaker 1: of an L two charger at home is around one

1695
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:56,599
Speaker 1: thousand dollars between hardware and installation, sometimes much more. Cost

1696
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,560
Speaker 1: that the consumer has to absorb and requires a significant

1697
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 1: upfront investment from that consumer. And that brings us to

1698
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:04,600
Speaker 1: our final problem. While it certainly would be better for

1699
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: the climate if we switch from gas powered vehicles to

1700
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 1: electric vehicles, even if that power comes from natural gas,

1701
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 1: any so called transition to electric future cannot be sustained

1702
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:17,000
Speaker 1: on the current power grid. A shift of two thirds

1703
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:20,400
Speaker 1: of all cars to the grid would dramatically increase the

1704
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 1: price of power across the United States for average home

1705
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:26,479
Speaker 1: basic appliances, let alone the car that you now have

1706
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:30,639
Speaker 1: to charge, which means we need cheap and abundant energy

1707
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 1: available nationwide. I have spent hours on the show laying

1708
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:36,560
Speaker 1: out why the only real way to accomplish this is

1709
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 1: wide scale available in nuclear power, but here again, the

1710
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: government is the worst obstacle. The newest reactor in the

1711
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 1: US just came online in June twenty sixteen. The one

1712
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:49,920
Speaker 1: before that came online in May nineteen ninety six. There

1713
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 1: is one plant in Georgia that is coming online soon,

1714
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:55,920
Speaker 1: which means the grand total of nuclear reactors to come

1715
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:58,760
Speaker 1: online in the last twenty or thirty years is three.

1716
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:01,679
Speaker 1: That Georgia place that I mentioned is a cautionary tale.

1717
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,760
Speaker 1: It started construction at nine and has taken more than

1718
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:08,360
Speaker 1: a decade to build, with huge cost overruns and very

1719
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:11,600
Speaker 1: little support from the federal government. Any electric future that

1720
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 1: we live in will again require a separate Apollo program

1721
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:19,600
Speaker 1: just to provide clean, reliable power. On top of the infrastructure,

1722
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:22,320
Speaker 1: need to build EV batteries and then keep the supply

1723
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 1: chain here in the US. I don't want to sound

1724
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 1: like a doomer. Our country certainly has had the capacity

1725
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 1: to do some of these things in the past, but

1726
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: the past is the past. Our political system right now

1727
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 1: has no consensus, and the genuine seriousness that it would

1728
01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:38,120
Speaker 1: require to pull something off like this is way outside

1729
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 1: the capacity of an aged man. Like Joe Biden and

1730
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:44,800
Speaker 1: Secretary Pete. Maybe we can fix it, but honestly, I

1731
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 1: doubt it within the next ten years. More likely, this

1732
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: could be a colossal boondoggle which would inadvertently spike the

1733
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:54,280
Speaker 1: price for the poorest consumers on electricity and increase demand

1734
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 1: on the existing grid for all Americans. Again, I hope

1735
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: to be wrong, but laying it all this way, see

1736
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 1: another way. What do you think, Crystal? I mean, it's

1737
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:04,600
Speaker 1: again and if you want to hear my reaction to

1738
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:11,719
Speaker 1: Sager's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com. Crystal,

1739
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:13,599
Speaker 1: what are you taking a look at? Well? Guys, Perhaps

1740
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 1: no effort is more personal to President Joe Biden, or

1741
01:27:15,960 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 1: more consistently touted by the President himself, than his efforts

1742
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 1: to cure cancer. Inspired by the untimely death of his

1743
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 1: son bo Biden initially launched the so called cancer moonshot

1744
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:27,680
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen when he was Vice President. Now in

1745
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 1: the White House, they have established another admirable set of

1746
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 1: goals quote to reduce the death rate from cancer by

1747
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: at least fifty percent over the next twenty five years

1748
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,360
Speaker 1: and improve the experience of people and their families living

1749
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:40,639
Speaker 1: with and surviving cancer, and by doing this and more,

1750
01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 1: end cancer as we know it today. But as Professor

1751
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 1: Anthony Zincas has been pointing out right now as we speak,

1752
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:50,800
Speaker 1: our for profit healthcare and pharmaceutical industries, they are not

1753
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 1: even capable of supplying existing cancer drugs for patients who

1754
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:59,000
Speaker 1: are suffering with that disease right now today, NBC News

1755
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 1: has some of the details. They say cancer drug shortages

1756
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:04,839
Speaker 1: are creating dire circumstances for some patients. In some cases,

1757
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:07,160
Speaker 1: other drugs are available, but they may not work as well.

1758
01:28:07,479 --> 01:28:12,120
Speaker 1: In other cases, patients may die waiting for the medications

1759
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:15,679
Speaker 1: that they need. According to that report, four different cancer

1760
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 1: drugs are in shortage right now, causing rationing, the use

1761
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 1: of inferior treatments and leading, as they say, there in

1762
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 1: some instances, to avoidable death. NBC interviewed a man named

1763
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:28,040
Speaker 1: Roger who is suffering with an aggressive form of prostate

1764
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: cancer stage four. After chemotherapy was unsuccessful, his doctor recommended

1765
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:36,000
Speaker 1: a new advanced drug specifically for prostate cancer, which is

1766
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 1: made by Novartis, But that is one of the drugs

1767
01:28:39,080 --> 01:28:42,080
Speaker 1: that's in short supply, so rather than receiving the potentially

1768
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: life saving care that he needs right now. He has

1769
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:46,920
Speaker 1: been put on a wait list, which is expected to

1770
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:51,280
Speaker 1: delay his treatment by several critical months. He told NBC quote,

1771
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,400
Speaker 1: I definitely need that drug. It's the only way I

1772
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 1: see my life. But it's not just cancer drugs. A

1773
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:01,879
Speaker 1: Senate subcommittee recently released a report on the growing scourge

1774
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 1: of critical drug shortages, and they held hearings on this matter.

1775
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:07,400
Speaker 1: Corns to that report, at the end of twenty twenty two,

1776
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: a full two hundred and ninety five individual drugs were

1777
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:14,400
Speaker 1: in shortage. In a single year. From twenty twenty one

1778
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 1: to twenty twenty two, drug shortage is spiked by thirty percent,

1779
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 1: and because drug makers have few requirements to inform the

1780
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:24,839
Speaker 1: government of upcoming shortages or explain the causes, regulators, doctors,

1781
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 1: and patients are often completely in the dark about when

1782
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:29,800
Speaker 1: a drug might be available or whether it's going to

1783
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:32,439
Speaker 1: be available at all. Listen to how one of the

1784
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:35,719
Speaker 1: witnesses at that hearing described the whore that this creates

1785
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 1: for doctors and for patients. We are lucky enough to

1786
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 1: live in a country where cutting at research has massively

1787
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:43,200
Speaker 1: reduced cancer related deaths, but cancer drug shortages represent a

1788
01:29:43,240 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 1: tragedy that's happening in slow motion. For example, etopicide is

1789
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 1: a cancer drug that's been on the market for over

1790
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:50,679
Speaker 1: forty years and typically cost it less than fifty dollars

1791
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:52,600
Speaker 1: a vile. It is given to patients for nearly a

1792
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 1: dozen different kinds of cancer, But in twenty eighteen, due

1793
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:57,799
Speaker 1: to a manufacturing delay, this drug was on shortage across

1794
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: the country. Which of our patients with can or should

1795
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:03,639
Speaker 1: get it? How can we prioritize between American lives? Should

1796
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 1: our limited vials go to an older woman who is

1797
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 1: just diagnosed with lung cancer, a young man who's already

1798
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,559
Speaker 1: been successfully taking it for testicular cancer, or a baby

1799
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:13,599
Speaker 1: with neuroblastoma, an aggressive cancer for which this drug is recommended,

1800
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:16,759
Speaker 1: but others might substitute. Our hospital, like others across the country,

1801
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:19,679
Speaker 1: struggled to make decisions based on projective availability, which patients

1802
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:21,680
Speaker 1: were already under our care, and our best guess at

1803
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 1: how many new patients would be diagnosed in the coming weeks.

1804
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,200
Speaker 1: As a doctor who's devoted my life to fighting cancer,

1805
01:30:26,240 --> 01:30:28,720
Speaker 1: it's hard to express how horrible that is. In this

1806
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 1: particular case, we had enough drug for our long and

1807
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 1: testicular cancer patients, and our heroic pharmacist was able to

1808
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:36,759
Speaker 1: scrape together enough atopicide from the bottom of the leftover

1809
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:39,599
Speaker 1: vials to also treat the infant patient. But our pharmacist

1810
01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:41,400
Speaker 1: should not be desperately trying to squeeze out a few

1811
01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 1: last drops when a life may be on the line. Now,

1812
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,839
Speaker 1: the causes of these shortages will not be remotely surprising

1813
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:48,960
Speaker 1: to you. It's the same story we see in a

1814
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:51,720
Speaker 1: whole lot of industries, only of course, with lives on

1815
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:54,840
Speaker 1: the line. Industry consolidation is meant that when a single

1816
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 1: drug maker stops making a drug or has some sort

1817
01:30:57,240 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 1: of supply or factory issue, the result can be absolutely devastating.

1818
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:04,479
Speaker 1: In the name of market fundamentalism, we have also allowed

1819
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:07,960
Speaker 1: damn near our entire pharmaceutical supply chain to become dependent

1820
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:11,639
Speaker 1: on ingredients or processes from foreign countries, most notably China

1821
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 1: and India. Eighty percent of the factories that make active

1822
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:18,840
Speaker 1: ingredients for pharmaceuticals are located outside of the US. That's

1823
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:20,600
Speaker 1: the reason why this hearing was actually held by a

1824
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:24,320
Speaker 1: Senate committee focused on homeland security. Our drug shortage issue

1825
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 1: is so dire it is actually a national security issue.

1826
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:30,599
Speaker 1: According to CNN, a single factory in Shanghai that made

1827
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 1: a necessary material for radiological scans shut down. It literally

1828
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:39,120
Speaker 1: nuked half the US supply of that critical substance. A

1829
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 1: VA hospital doc told them that the shortage hit them

1830
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:44,799
Speaker 1: immediately and they were faced with making some horrific choices,

1831
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:47,439
Speaker 1: but whether they had enough to do a needed cancer

1832
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 1: screen or heart disease scan. Many of the drugs in

1833
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 1: short supply are generics, which provide a lower profit margin

1834
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:56,840
Speaker 1: than the patent protected drugs. Since Big Pharma is unable

1835
01:31:56,920 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 1: to have a monopoly over these drugs and unconscoantly priced

1836
01:32:00,040 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 1: gouge us in some cases, they just decide to stop

1837
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 1: producing them altogether. Now, the neoliberal or libertarian or Pharmachhill

1838
01:32:06,520 --> 01:32:08,400
Speaker 1: answer to all of this would be to basically bribe

1839
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 1: the drug makers to make the drugs that we need,

1840
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:13,200
Speaker 1: give out price gouging monopolies for the generics, or use

1841
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:15,799
Speaker 1: Medicare or tax credits to artificially prop up the prices.

1842
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:18,519
Speaker 1: Use an endless stream of corporate subsidies to inflate an

1843
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 1: already wildly profitable industry just to induce them to keep

1844
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:25,200
Speaker 1: from killing babies with cancer. Bribe them with even more

1845
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:29,680
Speaker 1: subsidies to manufacture drugs here rather than overseas. Meanwhile, you're

1846
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,880
Speaker 1: just allowing pharma to blackmail the American people and the

1847
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:35,960
Speaker 1: US government. Nice cancer drug, you got there, shame if

1848
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:39,000
Speaker 1: something happened to it. Let me just state the absolute obvious.

1849
01:32:39,680 --> 01:32:41,759
Speaker 1: This is an insane way to run a healthcare system.

1850
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:46,439
Speaker 1: You simply cannot let profit incentives determine who gets care,

1851
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 1: what drugs get made, who lives, who dies, who spends

1852
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:52,000
Speaker 1: the rest of their lives under a crushing burden of

1853
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 1: medical debt. And a cursory glance at this current system

1854
01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 1: tells you that it is already anything but a free market. Already,

1855
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 1: public money has been used to fund every single new

1856
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:05,080
Speaker 1: drug molecule over the past two decades. Why because drug

1857
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 1: companies aren't interested in saving lives. They're interested in extracting profit,

1858
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 1: so they would rather spend their research and development money

1859
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:14,720
Speaker 1: crafting a new formulation of viagara that they can use

1860
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 1: to extend the patent, or not performing research at all

1861
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 1: but engaging in all out law fair to protect their

1862
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: monopoly price gouging powers for another few years. But listen,

1863
01:33:24,360 --> 01:33:26,680
Speaker 1: I understand if you aren't ready to just fully nationalize

1864
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:28,639
Speaker 1: the industry. Our government has certainly got a long way

1865
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:30,439
Speaker 1: to prove they're really up to the task of effectively

1866
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 1: managing production and distribution. So how about we start with

1867
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:37,200
Speaker 1: a pharma public option. Join the ranks of other nations

1868
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:40,719
Speaker 1: which have recognized that some essential medicines are too critical

1869
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:43,200
Speaker 1: to be left to the whims of the greedy psychopaths

1870
01:33:43,240 --> 01:33:46,360
Speaker 1: who run the pharmaceutical industry, Countries that have also decided

1871
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:49,120
Speaker 1: that the public should benefit from the medicines our tax

1872
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 1: dollars are used to invent in the first place. As

1873
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 1: stat News Rights quote, publicly owned manufacturers at the state, local,

1874
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 1: and regional levels could make new medicines developed by a

1875
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:01,959
Speaker 1: national R and D institute and also produce low cost generics.

1876
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 1: These manufacturers would then work with publicly owned wholesale distributors

1877
01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:08,559
Speaker 1: to assure the medications are available at hospitals and retail

1878
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:12,040
Speaker 1: pharmacies nationwide, all at the same low price. It could

1879
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:15,679
Speaker 1: even leverage existing public institutions like the US Postal Service

1880
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:19,080
Speaker 1: and the Veterans Health Administration, both of which have important

1881
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:23,680
Speaker 1: experience in pharmaceutical distribution, to ensure that cost effective medications

1882
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:27,840
Speaker 1: are delivered directly to patients and clinics in every community. Listen,

1883
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:31,080
Speaker 1: Big Pharma wants to compete in these markets. Great if

1884
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:33,479
Speaker 1: they prefer to make the fortieth version of Viagar instead,

1885
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 1: so be it. Remember back a while ago when there

1886
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 1: was a whole fear mongering campaign about Obamacare and supposedly

1887
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 1: socialized medicine creating death panels. Will now hospitals struggling with

1888
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:47,200
Speaker 1: these shortages are forced into actual literal death panels, trying

1889
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:49,400
Speaker 1: away the ethics as we heard of how to ration

1890
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:53,480
Speaker 1: a limited supply of life saving drugs plot twist, capitalism

1891
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 1: actually brought to the death planels. Never again, should we

1892
01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:58,639
Speaker 1: allow people who are already going through the worst moments

1893
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:00,760
Speaker 1: of their lives to have to work worry about whether

1894
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:03,679
Speaker 1: the drug that would save their life is profitable enough

1895
01:35:04,000 --> 01:35:06,400
Speaker 1: to make. And I am shocked that this isn't a

1896
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:08,839
Speaker 1: bigger story. And if you want to hear my reaction

1897
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:12,560
Speaker 1: to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at breakingpoints

1898
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:17,720
Speaker 1: dot com. Joining us now is Jacob Siegel. He is

1899
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:20,719
Speaker 1: a senior editor at Tablet Magazine and is the author

1900
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:22,680
Speaker 1: of a fascinating a new piece Let's go and put

1901
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:25,320
Speaker 1: it up there on the screen. It's a guide to

1902
01:35:25,520 --> 01:35:29,000
Speaker 1: understanding the hoax of the century, thirteen ways of looking

1903
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:33,479
Speaker 1: at disinformation. It's an important rundown both on the history

1904
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 1: of the disinformation wars but also kind of the architecture

1905
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:41,479
Speaker 1: of the disinformation industrial complex that exists today. Jacob, thank

1906
01:35:41,479 --> 01:35:43,280
Speaker 1: you so much for joining the show. We really appreciate it.

1907
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me so just it's a very long piece,

1908
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 1: but I do recommend that people go and read it.

1909
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:52,479
Speaker 1: Give us first the genesis of why you decided to

1910
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:54,400
Speaker 1: write this and some of the most shocking things that

1911
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:56,280
Speaker 1: you were able to uncover and kind of string together

1912
01:35:56,360 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 1: for people. Well, I started working on it a few

1913
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:02,160
Speaker 1: years ago, so it's been a long time in the making.

1914
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:06,280
Speaker 1: And the origins really were in what appeared to be

1915
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:10,920
Speaker 1: the mass manufactured of narratives in the United States, and

1916
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:14,960
Speaker 1: just being an American and being a spectator and observing

1917
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 1: the way in which there was both this production of

1918
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 1: these pseudo events to borrow a phrase coined by Daniel Borston,

1919
01:36:25,880 --> 01:36:31,320
Speaker 1: things like, for instance, the Russian bounty story from Afghanistan,

1920
01:36:31,439 --> 01:36:35,519
Speaker 1: which you may recall, which was just an entirely false story,

1921
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:41,800
Speaker 1: obviously political narrative that was planted in the press, so

1922
01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:43,840
Speaker 1: observing that on the one hand, and observing on the

1923
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:48,400
Speaker 1: other hand, this new regime of censorship that was capable

1924
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:53,840
Speaker 1: of purging from the public record, you know, things that

1925
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:58,360
Speaker 1: were not simply controversial, but also things that were vital,

1926
01:36:58,560 --> 01:37:03,600
Speaker 1: for instance, about health issues around COVID and the pandemic,

1927
01:37:04,360 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 1: or for that matter, around the twenty twenty election and

1928
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:14,599
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's laptops. So it was this machinery that had

1929
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:19,080
Speaker 1: become more and more overt in American life. And seeing

1930
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:23,920
Speaker 1: these two things, the production of these pseudo events and

1931
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 1: mass narratives on the one hand, and then on the

1932
01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:31,560
Speaker 1: other hand, the mass censorship that was taking place, and

1933
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 1: recognizing that they were two sides of the same coin,

1934
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:39,599
Speaker 1: that was the genesis of the piece. So take us

1935
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:43,240
Speaker 1: back to the roots of the current misinformation moment, because

1936
01:37:43,320 --> 01:37:45,519
Speaker 1: I feel like it sort of gets glossed over now,

1937
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:49,839
Speaker 1: but I remember quite vividly the whole red scare Kremlin

1938
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:55,040
Speaker 1: stooge discourse was used obviously against Trump and Trump supporters,

1939
01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:57,760
Speaker 1: but it was also used to try to call the

1940
01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 1: populist uprising of the Bernie Sanderson anybody you know. Bernie

1941
01:38:01,360 --> 01:38:04,839
Speaker 1: was seen as like doing Russia's bidding. Anybody supported Bernie

1942
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:07,000
Speaker 1: was called like a Krumlin stooge and all of these

1943
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:12,280
Speaker 1: sorts of things. So what happens that enables that discourse

1944
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:17,679
Speaker 1: to be turned into this entire sort of like industrial ecosystem. Yeah,

1945
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:21,560
Speaker 1: that's right. It was virtually identical language used with the

1946
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 1: two sort of populist insurgencies on left and right, Bernie

1947
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:28,400
Speaker 1: on the left, obviously Trump on the right. And the

1948
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:34,680
Speaker 1: proximate origins of this are in military and defense establishment

1949
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:38,960
Speaker 1: theories around what's called hybrid warfare. And this really starts

1950
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:42,240
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen with the invasion of Crimea and also

1951
01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:46,560
Speaker 1: the Euromaidan movement in Ukraine, which the US backs and

1952
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:52,559
Speaker 1: Russia opposes, and the popularization of this idea of hybrid warfare,

1953
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:56,320
Speaker 1: which essentially posits that there is a new form of

1954
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:00,879
Speaker 1: warfare also sometimes you know, lumped in with fourth generation warfare,

1955
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:08,240
Speaker 1: in which conventional and unconventional tactics are mixed together in

1956
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:15,080
Speaker 1: a kind of larger information space, globalized information space enabled

1957
01:39:15,120 --> 01:39:18,360
Speaker 1: obviously by the Internet. And so Russia is seen as

1958
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:24,120
Speaker 1: utilizing this method of warfare not only to pursue immediate

1959
01:39:24,240 --> 01:39:30,919
Speaker 1: tactical aims, but also to demoralize target populations, to seduce

1960
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:35,519
Speaker 1: fellow travelers in the West, and even in some Eastern

1961
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:39,680
Speaker 1: European countries, as it were. And so this idea of

1962
01:39:39,880 --> 01:39:45,479
Speaker 1: hybrid warfare, which has some legitimacy as some basis in

1963
01:39:45,680 --> 01:39:51,120
Speaker 1: terms of new tactics, new operational techniques being employed in warfare,

1964
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:55,280
Speaker 1: as some legitimacy in terms of the kind of ways

1965
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:59,479
Speaker 1: in which the Internet opens up this new space for

1966
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:06,360
Speaker 1: proper baganda and for information operations very quickly, and from

1967
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:10,200
Speaker 1: the beginning, as early as twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, there

1968
01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:14,000
Speaker 1: are people who are pointing to the kind of capaciousness

1969
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:17,240
Speaker 1: of this concept, the amorphousness of it, the ways in

1970
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:20,080
Speaker 1: which it can be used to mean anything, And in

1971
01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:24,640
Speaker 1: particular there are Eastern European security officials pointing to it

1972
01:40:24,720 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, this excessive focus on hybrid warfare is

1973
01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 1: actually taking away from the real sort of you know,

1974
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:36,519
Speaker 1: beans and bullets, aspects of war that matter, and turning

1975
01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 1: it into this sort of abstract, vague political concept. So

1976
01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:45,000
Speaker 1: that's there from the beginning, and some of those same

1977
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:51,560
Speaker 1: critical us in particular, though it's also NATO people involved, intelligence,

1978
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:56,200
Speaker 1: defense counter terrorism officials who are talking about hybrid warfare,

1979
01:40:56,720 --> 01:41:00,280
Speaker 1: then begin to talk about in the context of two

1980
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:06,559
Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen sort of emergence of the Trump presidential campaign,

1981
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:09,760
Speaker 1: and then really in twenty sixteen it picks up. They

1982
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:12,880
Speaker 1: begin to talk about the Trump campaign and the Bernie

1983
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:18,360
Speaker 1: Sanders campaign as extensions of hybrid warfare essentially, and they're

1984
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:23,320
Speaker 1: pointing to memes that are being spread online and saying,

1985
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:28,759
Speaker 1: in particular, there's a former FBI officer named Clint Watts

1986
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 1: who becomes a prominent counter terrorism official later re emerges

1987
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 1: in relation to Hamilton sixty eight the Russian influence detecting

1988
01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:44,400
Speaker 1: dashboard online, But before that, before Hamilton sixty eight, Watts

1989
01:41:44,479 --> 01:41:47,360
Speaker 1: is one of the key people who's pushing this idea

1990
01:41:47,560 --> 01:41:50,720
Speaker 1: that you know, as he says explicitly in a piece

1991
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:52,840
Speaker 1: for The Daily Beast where I used to work, he

1992
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:57,640
Speaker 1: says that basically that trumpkins as he calls them, and

1993
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:04,280
Speaker 1: Russian trolls have become more or less indistinguishable. Yeah. I

1994
01:42:04,320 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 1: think all of this is so important in terms of

1995
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:08,960
Speaker 1: the history because it sets the stage also for state action.

1996
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:11,920
Speaker 1: So can you describe where governments begin to get involved,

1997
01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:14,320
Speaker 1: They begin to start funding this stuff, and it gets

1998
01:42:14,439 --> 01:42:18,400
Speaker 1: laundered both through government to non governmental agencies, and then

1999
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:21,120
Speaker 1: gets perpetrated as fact and repeated by journalists. It's like

2000
01:42:21,160 --> 01:42:25,200
Speaker 1: two sides of the same coin, that's right. The key

2001
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:30,040
Speaker 1: event there occurs in December of twenty sixteen with the

2002
01:42:30,720 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: it's actually the authorization for the twenty seventeen NDAA, which

2003
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:40,080
Speaker 1: is the Defense Authorization Bill. There is a bill that's

2004
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:42,960
Speaker 1: a part of that, called the Countering Foreign Disinformation and

2005
01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:47,200
Speaker 1: Property and Act that gets signed into law by President

2006
01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:51,320
Speaker 1: Obama December of twenty sixteen and really is the first

2007
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:58,200
Speaker 1: major piece of law and policy authorization that creates the

2008
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 1: architecture for this what is effectively an information operation that

2009
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:09,839
Speaker 1: you know, is nominally aimed at defending against foreign threats,

2010
01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:13,920
Speaker 1: but is always from its inception because of what I

2011
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:17,240
Speaker 1: just pointed out, because of this blurring that you get

2012
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:20,160
Speaker 1: from the proponents of hybrid warfare theory and people like

2013
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:23,920
Speaker 1: Clint Watts who are blurring the lines between you know,

2014
01:43:24,120 --> 01:43:31,360
Speaker 1: Russian trolls, Russian influence operations, and American political actors. Even

2015
01:43:31,439 --> 01:43:35,840
Speaker 1: though this is nominally directed against foreign disinformation threats, it's

2016
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:42,560
Speaker 1: always in fact really sort of omnidirectional and in practice

2017
01:43:42,840 --> 01:43:47,599
Speaker 1: it's really directed against domestic political actors. In the United States,

2018
01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 1: you get the creation of the Global Engagement Center and

2019
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:55,479
Speaker 1: the State Department, which becomes the central governmental hub for

2020
01:43:56,200 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 1: coordinating and leading these counter disinformation experts. And then the GEC,

2021
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:04,560
Speaker 1: in its own mandate and its own mission statements, is

2022
01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:08,280
Speaker 1: talking from the beginning about leading a whole of society

2023
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:13,519
Speaker 1: effort that will involve bringing together actors from the tech industry,

2024
01:44:14,120 --> 01:44:17,679
Speaker 1: actors from the ango sphere, basically all of the most

2025
01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:22,200
Speaker 1: influential and powerful, powerful sectors of American society in terms

2026
01:44:22,240 --> 01:44:25,479
Speaker 1: of controlling the kind of messaging apparatus on the one

2027
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,160
Speaker 1: hand and the communication structure on the other hand. So

2028
01:44:29,280 --> 01:44:33,240
Speaker 1: that's all baked in from the very beginning. Well, I

2029
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:35,360
Speaker 1: think what's really important about the piece is, you know,

2030
01:44:35,439 --> 01:44:38,000
Speaker 1: the media piece is the most apparent. It's sort of

2031
01:44:38,240 --> 01:44:40,920
Speaker 1: at the surface, it's what we see. We've certainly talked

2032
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:43,479
Speaker 1: about the media role here, but you kind of dive

2033
01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:46,599
Speaker 1: a level deeper at all of the architecture that has

2034
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:50,400
Speaker 1: been constructed that is, you know, deeply troubling. I think,

2035
01:44:50,479 --> 01:44:52,240
Speaker 1: no matter where you are in the political spectrum to

2036
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:54,560
Speaker 1: our civil liberties. So Jacob, thank you so much for

2037
01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:57,479
Speaker 1: spending some time with us. Thanks man, appreciate it. Thanks

2038
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:00,040
Speaker 1: for having me. That's a pleasure. Thank you guys so

2039
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:02,000
Speaker 1: much for watching. We really appreciate it. Thank you for

2040
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:04,479
Speaker 1: continue to support us, signing up for a premium and

2041
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:07,320
Speaker 1: watching the full show on Spotify for our premium members

2042
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:10,120
Speaker 1: taking advantage. We've got fun things cooking over here that

2043
01:45:10,160 --> 01:45:12,200
Speaker 1: we're working towards every day. We can reveal some of

2044
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:14,200
Speaker 1: it very very soon, and we will see you all

2045
01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:16,040
Speaker 1: next week. Love you guys, See you next week.