1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind. My 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb. Today is Saturday. We have a 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: vault episode for you. This is going to be The 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Hogs of Hell Part one. It originally aired ten twenty four, 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Let's jump right in. I remember, indeed 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: that in later years the Lord of my country, knowing 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: I was acquainted with Italy, asked me why, as he 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: had seen down there some lords went out to pasture 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: their pigs. And I laughed, realizing that on the contrary, 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: they were going in search of truffles. But when I 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: told him that these lords hoped to find the truffle 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: underground to eat it, he thought I said they were 13 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 1: seeking der Typhon, the devil, and he blessed himself devoutly, 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: looking at me in amazement. Then the misunderstanding was cleared up, 15 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: and we both laughed at it. Such is the magic 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: of human languages, that, by human accord, often the same 17 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: sounds mean different things. Had so of milk umberto echoes 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: the name of the Rose. 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 20 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your mind. My name 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: is Robert. 22 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 3: Lamb, and I am Joe McCormick. 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: All right. In today's episode, as the title indicates, and 24 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: as the quote suggest, we're turning our attention once more 25 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: to beings and monsters that may verge on the demonic, 26 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: and this time it is, of course, hogs of hell, 27 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,199 Speaker 1: pigs of hell, uh bores of the underworld, and so forth. 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: We've of course discussed the Garrisne demoniac on the show 29 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: before this, being Christ's exorcism of the demonic legion into 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: a herd of swine, out of a man and into swine. 31 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: We did a whole episode about that in the past. 32 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: This time, though, it's more about hell pigs of one 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: sort or another. We're gonna we're gonna explore some different 34 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: territory and different interpretations. 35 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: That's right, monster pigs, bl z of bores, and pigs 36 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 3: of a more heavenly sword as well. But we start 37 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: a lot of these October episodes with examples from horror 38 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 3: movies of the types of creatures we're talking about, and 39 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 3: so I figured we should do the same today. I 40 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 3: know this has come up on the show several times. 41 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 3: I'm not quite sure why we keep pinging back on 42 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: this movie so often, but when it comes to horror 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: movies with monster pigs. I have to mention the nineteen 44 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 3: eighty four Russell Mulcaheek killer pig movie from before the 45 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: same director made Highlander in nineteen eighty six. This was 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: eighty four and the movie is called Razorback Now. I've 47 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 3: described the plot in the past as something like a 48 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 3: combination of Australian Texas Chainsaw massacre and Jaws, but with 49 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 3: a pig instead of a shark. I stand by that. 50 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 3: I think that is a pretty that gives you a 51 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 3: pretty good idea of what you're dealing with. It's been 52 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 3: a while since I've seen it. I don't super highly 53 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 3: recommend it. Like my memory is that is extremely gooey 54 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 3: and gross like at one of the major settings of 55 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: the movie is a gray market dog food factory in 56 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 3: the Australian outback, so you can imagine the kind of 57 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 3: chainsaw massacre connotations you'd get there. There's a lot of 58 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 3: body slop. But it is worth mentioning as a movie 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 3: because it's one of the relatively few horror films I 60 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 3: can think of where the monster is a pig. I 61 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: was looking it up and it seems there have been 62 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 3: several more movies on this theme in recent decades, but 63 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 3: I haven't seen any of those, so this is the 64 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 3: one I'm aware of. And I recall that the movie 65 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 3: does actually do a pretty commendable job of making the 66 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 3: bores mouth a mind rending terror. It's just this hot, 67 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 3: steaming maze of teeth and tusks, and for most of 68 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 3: the movie, in fact, almost never really you really don't 69 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 3: see the creature's whole bit. You just see its mouth almost, 70 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: like all there is is a mouth, which I think 71 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 3: is a strong choice. You get a similar kind of 72 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 3: thing in some shark movies, basically all you see or 73 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 3: the gaping Jaws. 74 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not what I've seen, but I know 75 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: you admire it, or in my aspects of it. And 76 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: I'm looking at some stills here right now, and yeah, 77 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: this monster pick looks amazing, Like this is this is 78 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: the thoroughly deserving of the title Jaws, but with a pig. 79 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 3: I mean, it does take serious boldness to approach that 80 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 3: as a concept, because do you can keep the You 81 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,119 Speaker 3: can keep the monster hidden much more easily in Jaws 82 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 3: because it's underwater, right, but a boor is just running around, 83 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 3: So yeah, it takes some clever photography to make the 84 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: scene convincing and heighten the tension without ever showing us 85 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 3: too much of the bore until the very end. 86 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: I guess the thing about a bore is you can 87 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: have the boar moving through like the tall grass or 88 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: the undergrowth to some extent, it's sort of like it's underwater. 89 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, you can have that. Uh 90 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 3: though this boar I from what IVER call it's taller 91 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 3: than any grass in the setting. It's like a fan 92 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 3: sized bore. Okay, Now, as I said, I haven't really 93 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 3: seen any of these other recent pig monster movies. Maybe 94 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 3: there's some really good ones. I don't know, I can't say. 95 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 2: Uh. 96 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 3: But of course, beyond the realm of horror movies, there 97 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 3: are a lot of fascinating pig beings in mythology, religion, 98 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 3: and ancient literature, including good pigs, bad pigs, and everything 99 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 3: in between. 100 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I have to admit I never really 101 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: looked into them all that much before, and I think 102 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,479 Speaker 1: I probably kind of glossed over mentions of bores and 103 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: pigs in mythology in the past, just because I don't know. 104 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: I'm I didn't have really strong opinions about wild boars. 105 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: I don't have any experiences with them. You know, I've 106 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: seen various you know, pig and pig kin animals that 107 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: the zoos, and they're interesting, but you know, I just 108 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: wasn't inspired. So I of course, when we were going 109 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: to do this episode, I said, sure, let's do it. 110 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: Let's dive in, and I turned to one of my 111 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: favorite sources, initial sources for this sort of thing. I 112 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: looked to one of folklore's Carol Rose's books, in this case, Giants, 113 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: Monsters and Dragons and Encyclopedia Folklore, Legend and Myth great volume, 114 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 1: easily one of my most loved and falling apart books. 115 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: But when I started looking around for bores and pig 116 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: like creatures, I was surprised at how many there were. 117 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: There are a lot of them. Dozens of creatures are 118 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: referenced in this book. And I should stress that while 119 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: she's pretty exhaustive in these volumes, she is by no 120 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: means complete in her chronicling of global traditions. So if 121 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: she has dozens, there are more out there as well. 122 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: So there are a lot of monstrous, hellish and even 123 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: divine pig bore and bore like beings in global traditions. 124 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 3: This just popped into my head. So it's not a 125 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 3: fully formed thought. Maybe is this not worthy yet, but 126 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: it just struck me that you know, a lot of 127 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 3: these animals that we see having a major role in 128 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 3: religion in mythology are animals that exist in both a 129 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 3: wild and domesticated form around the culture. So like you see, 130 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: you know, very common to have cattle related, cattle related imagery. 131 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 3: We were just talking about cattle related beings in ancient 132 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 3: Mesopotamian religion, and of course they would have had both 133 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 3: domesticated cattle and the wild orx around them. And we've 134 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: seen similar things with goats. You could have domestic goats 135 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 3: and wild goats around you. Maybe something about that kind 136 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: of dichotomy where you're seeing like the same animal body 137 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: both you know, roaming and running around and doing its 138 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: own thing in the wild, but also in a only 139 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 3: slightly altered form as an animal that you keep on 140 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: your farms, and that that seems to hit something in 141 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 3: the brain. 142 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and definitely seems to influence the way we use 143 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: those animals in our language and our symbols and in 144 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: our mythology. You know, coming back to for instance, you 145 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: know donkeys and asses. We talked about this in the 146 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: Mesopotamian Demon episode, the idea of of a ferocious she 147 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: demon being associated with a donkey, and how it seems 148 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: perhaps laughable if you're thinking from a modern standpoint about 149 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: a domestic donkey, but we're talking here about a wild creature. 150 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: It was swift, and therefore it's a fitting steed for 151 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: a demon. 152 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 3: S Oh, yeah, that's right. So what was it? The 153 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 3: demonus lamashe Tu is said to ride on a wild donkey, 154 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 3: but also occasionally was depicted maybe with donkey ears. 155 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And to your point, we also see this 156 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: with cattle versus you know, wilder forms of that creature. 157 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: And we'll see that again time and time again. When 158 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: it comes to pigs, bores, and pick like creatures. The 159 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: various species compose the suborder of Suena known as the 160 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: Sua forms. These can be found around the world, from 161 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: wild and ferocious bores to pig like cavalinas, and of 162 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: course the wild and domestic pigs of the genus sus. 163 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: I had when I told my son about this, he 164 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: thought this was rich. I was like, you're never gonna 165 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: forget the genus of wild and domestic pigs because they're sas. 166 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: Is it not sus? I would have said Sue's, but oh, 167 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 3: it's got to be saus. 168 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: It's well sus maybe, but when I read it, I'm like, sus. 169 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: Their genus is sus perfect us. 170 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 3: Okay, suck. 171 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: So human relationships with these animals, of course, has entailed 172 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: many different things. Hunting, consumption, sort of just acknowledgment of 173 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: their wild status, observation of their behavior in the wild, 174 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: and then poresine imagery and associations. These are going to 175 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: vary somewhat from culture to culture and from time to time, 176 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: and at times too and kind of counterintuitive ways that 177 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: I think sometimes breaks down to, you know, the the 178 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: idea of looking to the wild seuiforms as well as 179 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: to the domestic suiform and then also having you know, 180 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: different cultural influences enter into an area. 181 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. Thinking about the cultural associations we have with pigs 182 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 3: got me thinking on several different frequencies. I was like, 183 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: for one thing, in our culture, isn't it funny how 184 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 3: we we really associate pigs with eating when eating is 185 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 3: something all animals do. Yeah, Like, why is that? And 186 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 3: my best guess is maybe it has something just to 187 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 3: do with the relatively omnivorous appetites of a pig that 188 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 3: you know they famously will kind of they're kind of 189 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 3: not picky about what kinds of things they eat. But 190 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 3: that's also true of many other animals that you think 191 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: of us that way. 192 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, we end up comparing ourselves more to 193 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: the pig. And they're probably a number of ways to 194 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: sort of slice that up, right. I mean, you could 195 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: focus on the intelligence of the pig, and the domestic 196 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 1: pig is a pretty bright creature. You could maybe focus 197 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: on it's relative hairless. I mean, I say the pigs 198 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: are hairless. They do have hair, but a lot of 199 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: times they are you're seen or certainly depict it as 200 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: being kind of hairless, especially when you're dealing with like 201 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: cartoon pigs. Yeah, and we're very we're very strange in 202 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: the way that we are, especially with like roadside barbecue 203 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: restaurants are very quick to personify the pig and invot 204 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: cartoon pigs. Eat at a place where the flesh of 205 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: pigs is served under the name of pork. 206 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, the Pulled Pork restaurant where it shows a pig 207 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 3: in a chef's hat, wearing just a shirt with like 208 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 3: a knife and a fork. 209 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna often be horrific. So yeah, there's a 210 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: to unpack and like American associations of the pig, but 211 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: if you go, you know, across the board and throughout time, 212 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: you'll find a lot more to look at. For instance, 213 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: the wild boar is a powerful image in medieval heraldry. 214 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: It's also pretty powerful and Hindu iconography, where it's at 215 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: times linked to the divine, as we'll explore. In the 216 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: Chinese zodiac the pig is associated with wealth and good fortune. 217 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: And I've heard other you know, sort of takes on, 218 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: like how the pig is considered in say Thai culture, 219 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: where I'm to understand that the term for pig, which 220 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: I believe is MoU, is a common nickname of endearment. 221 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: So something you might call a child with some endearment, 222 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: you know, some some kid that you love, or your 223 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: baby brother, and it wouldn't be a put down, it 224 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't be an insult, that sort of thing. But meanwhile, 225 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: elsewhere in time and space, here on Earth, poresine imagery 226 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: of course has all these negative connotations tied to as 227 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: you said, gluttony or sloth, or even to the unclean 228 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: and the demonic. 229 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 3: That's right. And as we often bring up in these 230 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 3: episodes about monster traditions, looking at beliefs about monsters, especially 231 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 3: monsters based on an animal, I think usually tells us 232 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 3: more about us and our relationship to that animal than 233 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 3: it does about the animal itself. That's right. 234 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,359 Speaker 1: So you know, we're going to dive into some examples 235 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: from global traditions here, but I will say that as 236 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: I was going through them and reading about them, and 237 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: some of which they couldn't find enough to really mention here, 238 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: but overall I found that you could basically divide them 239 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: into sort of three categories with a certain amount of overlap. 240 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,439 Speaker 1: So there are primordial bores, often with a real emphasis 241 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: on a connection to the earth. You know, they run 242 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: around in the earth, they dig in the earth, kind 243 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: of as referenced in our cold open here. You know, 244 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: they are concerned with things under the soil, and they 245 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: go under the soil to get them. So they have 246 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: this connection. 247 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 3: But by primordial, are you saying that they have something 248 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: to do with like an initial state of the universe 249 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 3: or with the creation of the world. 250 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: Yes, like something about like the state of at least 251 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: the surface world, and we'll get into some examples of this. 252 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: Then there are also divine bores. Often these are ethereocephalic, 253 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: so you know it's the head of a bore on 254 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: a humanoid body, but not always. There are also divine 255 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: bares that are just straight up like a mighty boar 256 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: that is also a god. And then another huge area, 257 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: and this is one that I think ties directly into 258 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: the horror movie example that we kicked off the episode with, 259 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: and that is the bore that hunts humans, which is 260 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: basically not a huge twist because I mean history and 261 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: just basic understanding of wild boars will tell you that 262 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: they are they can be dangerous prey, and we can 263 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: point to examples throughout history of even famous people, members 264 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: of nobility dying in the conquest of a prize bore, 265 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: say a bore that they have injured in an attempt 266 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: to kill, and then they themselves die of injuries sustained 267 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: from the boar. 268 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 3: So the famous and within context somewhat ignoble death of 269 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 3: Robert Barathian in fiction is based somewhat on real incidents. 270 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 3: It's not implausible in royal. 271 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: History, no, not at all. Yeah, I mean, and to 272 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: be clear, like wild boars can be dangerous today, and 273 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: there are fatal incidents that occur. They can be very 274 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: defensive and even aggressive if the circumstances are right. But 275 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: these mythic treatments often take it one step beyond. It's 276 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: not just that this is a dangerous game to hunt, 277 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: but this game actively not only hunts you back, but 278 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: might hunt you of its own accord. Like you're not 279 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: even trying to hunt the monster boar. It just goes 280 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: out and hunts people at night. That sort of thing. 281 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 3: Okay, So to recaps, you've got boors from the creation, 282 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 3: or bores from the beginning. You've got divine bores or 283 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 3: heavenly bores, and then you've got the board that eats people. 284 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: Right, One more quick fictional example before we dive into 285 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: these examples from global traditions, I should note that in 286 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: Dante's Inferno, there are twelve named demons that compose the 287 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: Malagrancia in the eighth circle of Hell, and one of 288 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: them is clearly named with hogs in mind. This is Curiato, 289 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: whose name means swine or a little pig, and we 290 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: meet him in Canto twenty one verse one twenty two. 291 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: So that's just a quick example of a literary pig 292 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: in hell. 293 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 3: I don't remember what the context was, but we've talked 294 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: about the Mala bronca before. There were the I think 295 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: that name translates to evil claws. And this is the 296 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 3: circle of demons who are shown like surrounding a boiling 297 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 3: lake of pitch, and there are the like I don't know, 298 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 3: like corrupt people and grafters or something that they keep 299 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 3: having to force back down under the pitch. Pretty pretty 300 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 3: nasty job. 301 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: They're demons with jobs, though they have a rope. All right, 302 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: enough of the like straight up demonic here, Let's get 303 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: into some other examples. So I'd like to start in 304 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: Hindu traditions, since these traditions feature some of the most 305 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: divine and I think powerful invocations of por sign imagery. 306 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: So I turned once more to Nanditha Krishna's excellent book 307 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: Sacred Animals of India, in which the author chronicles a 308 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: number of different animals and talks about like their you know, 309 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: their their role in the natural world in India, conservation status, 310 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: and then also the different ways that they're invoked. And 311 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: so the author here describes a course, the scie and 312 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: power of wild boars creatures that are that are of 313 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: course closely tied to the earth. As I mentioned earlier, 314 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: they dig for roots in the soil, and in doing 315 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: so they turn over the soil, perhaps as the author 316 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: suggests informing humans about the value of tilled soil. 317 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 3: Oh, so they could be one of the sort of 318 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 3: like agricultural knowledge givers in a way. 319 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: Exactly at the same time, they're also like this natural 320 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: force that you know might be beneficial but might also 321 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: be destructive. They can they can certainly hurt and kill humans, 322 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: but they can also be destructive to human agricultural pursuits 323 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: because they may raid crops, they may dig around in 324 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: your gardens and so forth. So in essence, we have 325 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: a fierce, wild, but not universally hostile creature that is 326 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: closely tied to the earth. The bore both tills and 327 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: fertilizes the soil, and tradition holds that they're also tied 328 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: to rain and monsoon seasons as well, digging right before 329 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: the beginning of the monsoon. So one of the major 330 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: uses of bor iconography and Hindu traditions is the tenth 331 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: incarnation of the god Vishnu and that is of Vadaha. 332 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: And there are different stories, of course concerning this incarnation, 333 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: as you'll find with just about any particular detail and 334 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: the Hindu traditions. But one of the big tales does 335 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: involve a demon of sorts. Now more precisely, it involves 336 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: an osserra. This is the kind of power seeking demi 337 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: god that is often in conflict with the benevolent devas. 338 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: So one of these is one of these cases where 339 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: the word demon in English seems a precise enough descriptor, 340 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: but with certain caveats, you know, like it's the system 341 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: of supernatural beings can be compared to that that you 342 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: find in Christian mythology. But there's still a lot of 343 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: important differences, right. 344 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 3: We just recently talked about this in our series on 345 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 3: the so called demons of age in Mesopotamia. To what 346 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 3: extent that term does sort of apply and in other 347 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 3: ways doesn't. 348 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: In this case, we have a demon or by the 349 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: name of Hironyaksha that steals the earth itself, so rolls 350 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: up the earth like a mat, we are told, and 351 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: then takes it into the ocean depths. Wow, and yeah, 352 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: and so Vishnu is not crazy about this. So Vishnu 353 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: takes the form of a great bore, this is Vardaja, 354 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: and dives into the ocean to retrieve it, slaying here 355 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: in Yaksha. In the fierce battle that ensues. Then Vardaja 356 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: restores the earth, and while he is at it, teaches 357 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,239 Speaker 1: humans agriculture, because again this is connection between bores and 358 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: tilling of the earth, fertilizing the soil. Uh And I 359 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: want to note that while many illustrations and depictions of 360 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: this battle show Vardaja as a bore and here in 361 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: Yaksha as a human or a humanoid demon, there's at 362 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: least one illustration that depicts them both as human boar hybrids. 363 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: I included this one here for you, Joe. This is 364 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: a seventeen forty illustration by Indian painter Manaku of guler Oh. 365 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 3: I like this painting though, so they're shown in conflict here. 366 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 3: Do you know which of the two beings in the 367 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 3: painting is supposed to be the incarnation of Vishnu? Is 368 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: it the one with the grayer skin or the green skin? 369 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: It would be the gray skin, I believe, because here 370 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: you see a regal, multi armed, noble looking poor sign 371 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: individual por sign being and then on the other hand, 372 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: you see this wild green monster that is also poor 373 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: sign that also has the features of a bore. And 374 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: I love this imagery because you get in one image 375 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: these two drastically different ways of invoking the imagery of 376 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: the boar, the noble and the savage, the good and 377 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: the evil, and so forth. 378 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So the vicious demonic boar here is 379 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 3: mouth open, its jaws kind of like the to compare 380 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 3: it to the the movie Razorback, it's just all mouthed 381 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 3: a reaching out with its arms to attack, whereas the 382 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 3: Vishnu version of the boar, Yeah, it's standing with its 383 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 3: chin up, you know, raised in kind of lofty defiance. 384 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,959 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And you'll find other depictions of Vardaja in 385 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: which pretty much looks like this with gray skin, the 386 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: head of a boar, multiple arms. But then you'll also 387 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: find depictions where he is just a great bore. Uh. 388 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: And I included an image of some sculpture art that 389 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: depicts this. Now Naraka, the lord of the underworld Krishna 390 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: rights is also held to be the offspring of Vadaha 391 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: and the Earth via his spouse Boudevi, which I believe 392 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: the sculpture I included here. If you look at it, 393 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: there is a female figure on there, kind of like 394 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: hanging from one of his tusks. I believe that is 395 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: bou Devi. 396 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 3: Whoa oh okay, so I initially interpreted this humanoid figure 397 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 3: to be climbing the boar, as if to climb up 398 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 3: its side and ride it. Be though she's hanging from 399 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 3: its tusk. Wow. Yeah. 400 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: Krishna also points to a couple of other Hindu entities 401 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: that feature bor iconography. There's the goddess of Vadahai, an 402 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: aspect of the goddess Durga. The author also mentions that 403 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: the boar is also invoked in Jainism and in Buddhism, 404 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: where the goddess ma Richi or Marisi drives a chariot 405 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: drawn by seven bores. I believe this figure also factors 406 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: into Hinduism and has sometimes depicted as writing a single boar, 407 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: though not always all right, let's let's turn to the 408 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: world of monstrous boars, because one really important example in 409 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: Greco Roman traditions is, of course the Caledonian boar or 410 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: the Itolian boar. This is a monstrous boar sent by 411 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: the goddess Artemis to punish the King of Kaledon for 412 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: lack of proper sacrifices. You didn't throw up the right sacrifices. 413 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: You ticked off a god. Have to deal with a 414 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: monster pig. It brings great. Oh, it just destroys everything. 415 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: It destroys people, It destroys the town, it destroys the 416 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: land itself. And then you end up having to have 417 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: the heroes Meleager and Atalanta hunt it with their friends, 418 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: their allies, slay it, and then get into a big 419 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: fight with their allies over who gets what part of 420 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: the spoils from the monster pig. Because we see this 421 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: time and time again. You'll have some sort of supernatural pig. 422 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: But then once you have killed that pig, its parts 423 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: are used. You know, it is it is, it is food, 424 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: it is you know it's hide has value and so forth. 425 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, the drama is not done when the monster boor 426 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 3: is slain. In fact, that factors into the next one 427 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 3: you're gonna mention. 428 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, the Aramanthean boar. This is another monster bore 429 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: of Greek myth. This is the one that ravaged Arcadia, 430 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: and it ends up being one of the twelve labors 431 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: of Hercules having to dispose of this monster boar king. 432 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: Eurystheus tells her, you can't slay it, You've got to 433 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 1: bring it back alive. And in most of these tellings 434 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: you have this wonderful scene where of course Hercules pulls 435 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: this off, brings back this ferocious boar alive, and just 436 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: the sight of Hercules carrying this thing is so terrifying 437 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: that the tyrant king jumps inside of a jar and hides. 438 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 3: So I thought this was interesting because of the way 439 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 3: the story ties into a weird art meme from the 440 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,479 Speaker 3: ancient world that I've noticed. I'll get to that in 441 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 3: a second. But first of all, I was wondering if 442 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 3: there was any like really good ancient texts that describes 443 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 3: this hunt in detail. Maybe there is, but if so, 444 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 3: I couldn't. I couldn't find it. I didn't really come 445 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 3: across anything all that great. It's pretty sparse, you know, 446 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 3: It's just like, oh, and he hunted the boar down. 447 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 3: The best example I came across was from the text 448 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 3: of Pseudo Apollodorus the Library. This is the Phraser translation, 449 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 3: which says, well, first of all, there's a bunch of 450 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 3: drama with Hercules going out to hunt the boar and 451 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 3: then gets into a bunch of stuff with some cinaurs 452 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 3: and his companion gets killed. But then when Hercules, it 453 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 3: says quote, when Hercules had chased the boar with shouts 454 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 3: from a certain thicket, he drove the exhausted animal into 455 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 3: deep snow, trapped it, and brought it to myceny. Now 456 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 3: here's the funny art note. If you look up ancient 457 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 3: Greek pottery depicting this scene where Heracles in the Greek 458 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 3: returns with the boar, multiple pieces I found have the 459 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 3: same style of depicting the scene, so little things about 460 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 3: it are different. It's not like a tracing, you know. 461 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 3: You might have different characters on the sides of the scene, 462 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 3: or different sort of posture or ways of rendering the 463 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 3: Hercules's face and body, but the thing being shown is 464 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 3: the same in every case. So you will have down 465 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 3: below there's an opening of a large jar. I guess 466 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 3: this is the type of Greek jar known as a pithos, 467 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 3: with the king hiding down in the jar, and you 468 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 3: can see like his head and hands popping up out 469 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 3: of it like oh, And then up above you will 470 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 3: have Hercules standing above the opening of the jar, holding 471 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 3: the boar up as if to dump it on top 472 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 3: of the king, or like to plug the king in 473 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 3: the jar with the boar as a cork. And I've 474 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 3: got at least four different m foi from ancient Greece 475 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 3: that depict the scene almost exactly like this Robi. You 476 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 3: can take a look and see what you noticed about 477 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 3: all of these. The first one I've got in the 478 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 3: outline here is from the British Museum. It's a Greek 479 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: amphora from the sixth century BCE, and M four a 480 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 3: is also a type of jar that was a smaller 481 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 3: jar jar that would usually be used to store wine 482 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 3: or perfume or oil or something like that. So this 483 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 3: a for a. Hercules is wearing some kind of armor, 484 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 3: but also his thighs and butt cheeks are showing a 485 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 3: little bit, and he's. 486 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: He's remarkably clo though. I have to say yes for Heracles. 487 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 3: Yes, so Heracles. He's got the boar up on his shoulder, 488 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 3: and the king is down in the jar like no, 489 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 3: don't dump the boar on me, and the boar is 490 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 3: just going straight down on top of him. It looks 491 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 3: like he's gonna to plug him up in there. And 492 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 3: in most versions of this scene he's dropping the boar 493 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 3: head first on the king, but in one I found 494 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 3: it's the last one I've got for you to look 495 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 3: at here, Rob, in this case, he's dropping the boar 496 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 3: tail first onto the king. So I don't know what 497 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 3: the difference is there. I am in no way an 498 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 3: expert on ancient Greek art. I couldn't find anything that's 499 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 3: saying why this scene appears so often and looks so similar. 500 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 3: And I could be totally wrong about this, but I 501 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 3: wonder if this scene is popular to depict on MPI 502 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 3: on jars because the king is hiding in a jar 503 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 3: in the scene. 504 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Heracles or Hercules, hero of the people 505 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: we discussed in the pad. I can't remember we're talking 506 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: about it this on a Core episode or a Weird 507 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: House cinem episode. I think it was weird House because 508 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about the Mario Bava Hercules in the Underworld film. 509 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: But Hercules stands up to power like this, but he 510 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: does not proclaim himself a king, so he's kind of 511 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: and he's kind of a workingman's. 512 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:14,719 Speaker 3: Hero in that regard. 513 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, take this job and shove it. 514 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: Take this pig and shove it, right. 515 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 3: That is exactly the vibe of these scenes here. Yeah, 516 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 3: take this pig and shove it. 517 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: I like how the fourth image that you shared Hercules 518 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: is the most naked here, varying levels of nudity for 519 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: Hercules in each of them. But then the second one 520 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: you shared, Hercules is making this wild Gargonian face that 521 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: is really great, almost as if he is saying, wahs up. 522 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's asko. Yeah, any experts on ancient Greco Roman 523 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 3: art out there you want to fill us in on 524 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 3: why this scene appears so often and looks so similar? Yeah, right, 525 00:29:52,920 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 3: in contact that stuff to blow your mind dot com. 526 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: All right, let's see which what other monster picks should 527 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: I mention here? There's some that I couldn't find a 528 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: lot on. Like, for instance, there's one in Icelandic tradition 529 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: that is called by God, not like by God it's 530 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: a pick, but like b E I G A D. 531 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: And this apparently roughly translates to bringer of fear, which 532 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: I like. But then there's one from Irish legend that's 533 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: really interesting. This one is the bore of being Goldbain, 534 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: and in this there's a whole story for this one. 535 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: So this is a monster that was once the mortal 536 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: human son of Angus, but upon his son's death in 537 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: a quarrel, the father you know, refused to accept this 538 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: and refused to accept the custom of death gold from 539 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: his killer in to sort of settle the dispute. Instead, 540 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: he raises his son from the dead with dark magic 541 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: into the form of a great bore that Carol Rose 542 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: says has neither tail nor ears. I'm not sure what 543 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: the significance of that detail is, but if nothing else, 544 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: it tends to show you that this is an unnatural boar. 545 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: It is somehow not quite bore and certainly not man. Now. 546 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: In doing this and raising up his son like this, 547 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: he's also cursing his son's killer, Dimid and for telling 548 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: that the two of them, the reincarnated son here and 549 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: his killer Domed, are going to be the death of 550 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: each other. That he will live as long as this 551 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: this unnatural boar that he's raised up, and indeed that's 552 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: exactly how it goes down. They fight, they gore and 553 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: stab each other. And I think we may have touched 554 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: on this story before in our episode about Finn McCool, 555 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: because this is where Finn McCool jumps in and tries 556 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: to bring healing waters to the dying warrior, and he 557 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: tries three times, but it slips through his fingers the 558 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: first two times, and by the third time the hero 559 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: has already died. All right, This next one comes from 560 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: Welsh traditions, and I'm going to butcher this. I know, 561 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: my apologies, but it is something like hults do gut 562 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: and it is it is the bobtailed black soal. It 563 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: is definitely in the category of the boar that hunts. 564 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: It was said to be active. I've seen it. I 565 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: believe Carol Rose discusses it as being connected with Salin 566 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: and then with the introduction of Christianity war that, of 567 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: course that has warped more in the direction of Halloween, 568 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: and then this creature becomes associated with the devil. But 569 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: in essence we're dealing with a with just another boar 570 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: who hunts that is monstrous and terrible, certainly kind of 571 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: like an evil monster. You're right again, I think the 572 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: name here is Hawk du Gita or something to that effect. Again, 573 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: I'm not really good with the Welsh tongue here. 574 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce it hats off 575 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 3: to you, Rob, But I was looking at the entry 576 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 3: on this one in the Oxford Dictionary of Celtic Mythology, 577 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 3: and it says that this is the spectral pig, later 578 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 3: often associated with the devil in Christianity. But the idea 579 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 3: is that it's a spectral pig that would rise up 580 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 3: out of the embers of a dying bonfire on the 581 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 3: night of this like sort of autumn festival night, and 582 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 3: it would rise up out of the embers of the 583 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 3: dying bonfire, and it would catch the last person, I guess, 584 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 3: to the last person in some case to like leave 585 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 3: the festivities or to arrive. 586 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: Oh fascinating. Well, let's see we have some other ones here. 587 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: There's a Comapoa. This is a Hawaiian primordial monster bore 588 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: from Hawaiian mythology, the pig child who raised up the 589 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: ocean mud with his snout to form the islands and 590 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: some tellings. So again another primordial vision of the bore. 591 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 3: And I like the resonance is there with the Hindu 592 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 3: idea of the incarnation of Vishnu that like has to 593 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 3: swim down into the ocean to retrieve the mat of 594 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 3: the earth and bring it back in this case, raising 595 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 3: up the ocean mud from beneath. 596 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, is there an actual connection there, a reverberation 597 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: of belief or is it just come from familiarity with 598 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: the animal? You know, and these these sort of metaphors 599 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: and ideas emerging from human observation of these animals that 600 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 1: they live in close contact with. 601 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, to be clear, I was not suggesting a causal connection. No, no, no, no, 602 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 3: those two myths. 603 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but if if there, if there isn't a 604 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: causal connection, it's it's clearly like observing the animal, and 605 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: you know the ideas that emerge when we see the 606 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: animal and it's on its natural turf. Let's see. Oh, 607 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: the legends tell of a monstrous family of bors, like 608 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: you could probably call these ogre boors. I think that 609 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: fought King Arthur and his knights. May come back to 610 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: some of this, but the tellings have a lot of gorings, 611 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: Like it's just a whole series of gorings. They're chasing 612 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: these boors around, killing off certain boars. Yeah, we'll come 613 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: back to these, because there are a few like examples 614 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: of the King of Boars. 615 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 3: Did your source of say, which of King Arthur's knights 616 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 3: got got gord because I was just thinking because it's funny. 617 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 3: I know, one of the knights in Arthurian legend is 618 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 3: Sir Bars, and it would be somewhat hilarious if Sir 619 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,879 Speaker 3: Bors got gored by a boar. 620 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: I do I don't know. I don't know if any 621 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: like name knights were gored, but it's possible. Like some 622 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: of the particular ones I'm scanning down, I do have 623 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: notes on this. Let's say twitrich Tritch. This is a 624 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: This is one of the wicked kings who was transformed 625 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: into a monstrous boar. So, uh, this is one of 626 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: the ones that they do battle with. Then, yeah, there 627 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: are various other ones that have names and factor into 628 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: this whole series of battles between humans and bores. Oh 629 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: now here's another one that Carol ro shares that is 630 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: really interesting and has a very cool story to it. 631 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: And this is concerning a particular monster pick by the 632 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: name of Totoima or I've seen it also spelled dodo Ema. 633 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: It's a monster pig of the Oro Kaiva people of 634 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: Papua New Guinea. So essentially, this monster pig is a 635 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: father of mortal humans who hunts them from their birth 636 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: and devours them if he finds them. So the basic 637 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 1: story concerning this monster pig is that I guess at 638 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: night it takes the form of the monster pig, but 639 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: during the day it takes the form or can take 640 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: the form of a mortal man. And in this form, 641 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: toto Ema couples with human women, producing human offspring, which 642 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: then at night, in the form of the beast, he 643 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: seeks out and he consumes if he finds them. 644 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:07,240 Speaker 3: Wow. 645 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: But then one woman ends up birthing twins, and of 646 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: course he does what he always does in bore form. 647 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: He chases after them to consume them. But when he 648 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,479 Speaker 1: finds them, he's only able to consume the boy twin 649 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: and the female escapes. Well, the twins mother she's not 650 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: gonna take this, she stands up to it. So she 651 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: goes to a shaman, and the shaman casts a spell 652 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: that causes the boy to grow rapidly into adulthood inside 653 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: of Totoima's stomach and then bursting out of him, killing 654 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: the monster pig in the process, and then the shaman 655 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: marries the daughter. The people feast on the body of Totolima, 656 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,919 Speaker 1: and in doing so they consume his power. His supernatural 657 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: power the absorb it, and then this story is echoed 658 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: in all of the boar feasts to follow in this culture. 659 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 3: Oh. Interesting, So the boy explodes out of the belly 660 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 3: of the boar by growing rapidly. But does that mean 661 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 3: the boy survives? 662 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess he either. I'm not sure of the 663 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: details of the spell. Maybe he reforms and then grows, 664 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: or maybe the monster consumed him whole, as we see, 665 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: of course, in a lot of stories of monsters consuming people, 666 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: they are swallowed whole, and then there's this chance for 667 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: them to escape somehow, you know, clearly a popular idea, 668 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,240 Speaker 1: even in modern fiction and science fiction. 669 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I'm more familiar with stories along these lines, 670 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 3: where like, oh, you know the Little Red Riding Hood, 671 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 3: the hunter comes along and cuts open the wolf's stomach 672 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 3: and everybody, and everybody gets out. But I love this 673 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 3: version with the magic spell that causes the yeah, the 674 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 3: the eating child to grow and explode from the inside, and. 675 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: Then they eat the monster. Again. We see allusion to 676 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,360 Speaker 1: this in the Greek traditions as well. I'm not saying 677 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 1: every monster boar ends up being consumed, but it does 678 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: seem to be kind of a frequent idea, like it 679 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: is a rare kind of this rare case where the 680 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: monster is both for and also on the menu for 681 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: human beings. 682 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I guess that's interesting. Where you know that 683 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 3: the pig occupies this middle space between somewhere between just 684 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 3: herbivorous prey animal and carnivore, which is, you know, carnivore 685 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 3: is not usually thought of as great eating. Not to 686 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 3: say people wouldn't eat, you know, eat a wolf or whatever, 687 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 3: but but yeah, exactly, but that like the pig is 688 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 3: sort of it's in both camps. 689 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, two more, just real quick ones here, speaking 690 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: of pigs that are eaten there, there is also the 691 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,879 Speaker 1: eternally regenerating roasting pig of Valhalla. This is sasrm there 692 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: or so soccrom there, whose name just means blackened. 693 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 3: I believe. 694 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: I think we've touched on him before, but that's his 695 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: entire role. I don't think he has much of a backstory. 696 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,399 Speaker 1: He's just a never ending feast pig that reunites. 697 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 3: So this is not so much pig as pig, but 698 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 3: divine pig as pork. 699 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: Right yeah, yeah, And then there is at least one 700 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: supernatural pig or boar worth talking about here from Chinese traditions, 701 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: and that is ping fing or bingfing. This is a 702 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: black boar with either I think some tellings the head 703 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: of a human, but I think most of the sellings 704 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: that I was reading about it's a boar head at 705 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: either end. So kind of like the what the push 706 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: me pull me from Doctor Doolittle, Doctor Doolittle, of course, yes, 707 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 1: there's like a creature like this to push me, pull 708 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: me in that where it has a head on either side. 709 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: It's this is the push me pull me of bores 710 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: and Chinese mythology. 711 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 3: Wow. 712 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: This is the variation that appears in the classic text 713 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: of the Shanghai Jing, the classic of mountains and seas 714 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: that we've touched on the show before, and as with 715 00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 1: other two headed creatures, said to be quite obstinate, according 716 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: to Richard Strasburg in the book A Chinese bestI Area. 717 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: So I guess in this, you know, it's like you 718 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: have a two headed animal. Which one's in charge, which 719 00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: one's the boss. Well, they're both the boss. You have 720 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: to talk to both ends. 721 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 3: Of the pain, especially stubborn. Yeah. Stubbornness comes from the head. 722 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. So again this is just a brief overview of 723 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: some of the varieties and some of the basic tropes 724 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: you seem to encounter with mythic pigs, mythic bores, and 725 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,319 Speaker 1: so forth. I'm sure there are some other interesting ones 726 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: that I didn't run across enough details regarding, so if 727 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: you have a favorite, write in share them. We would 728 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,439 Speaker 1: love to hear about your hell pig. 729 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 3: All right, Well, it looks like we're out of time 730 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 3: for today, but we are not done with the topic 731 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 3: of monster pigs. So if you can't get enough you 732 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 3: want to learn about more monster pigs, and in fact 733 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,879 Speaker 3: monster pigs not only in myth and legend, but in reality, 734 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 3: come back and join us on Tuesday. 735 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: All right. Just a reminder to everyone out there that 736 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and 737 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays episodes 738 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,959 Speaker 1: that are more likely to be monstrous and horror themed 739 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: during the month of October, and then we do a 740 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: short form episode on Wednesday, and then on Fridays we 741 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: set aside most serious concerns to just talk about a 742 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: weird film on Weird House Cinema. Oh and just a 743 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 1: reminder if you're on Instagram out there, you can follow 744 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: us at st b ym podcast and if you would 745 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: like to get a stuff to Blow your Mind Halloween 746 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: shirt sticker or what have you, check out our tea 747 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: public store that should be linked on the Instagram that 748 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: should also be linked on our page at stuff to 749 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: Blow Yourmind dot com. 750 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway. 751 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 752 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,800 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 753 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 754 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 755 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 756 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 757 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,319 Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 758 00:42:52,480 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.