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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 2: is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick, and we're back with part

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Speaker 3: two in a series we are calling Hunters of the

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Speaker 3: Dark Ocean, focusing on predators that operate in deep marine

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Speaker 3: environments and folks, full disclosure if we sound like we're

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Speaker 3: broadcasting from the bottom of the sea ourselves today. I

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Speaker 3: think Rob and I are both maybe operating at lower

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Speaker 3: power than usual.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. Do do you have a story here, Rob?

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Speaker 2: Oh, just that I'm battling a cold and as of

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Speaker 2: right now, all the cold medicine is like firing at

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Speaker 2: full throttle.

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Speaker 4: Oh nice, So we time to just right, Yeah, time.

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Speaker 2: To just write. It may wear off halfway through and

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Speaker 2: you need a listener and get to get to appreciate

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Speaker 2: like a slightly gravelly sexier voice for me as we

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Speaker 2: discussed various slimy creatures that live in the depths.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I was up a lot last night. It's

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Speaker 3: just childcare related lack of sleep.

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Speaker 4: But hey, here we are.

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Speaker 3: We're coming to you once again, folks. So brief recap

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Speaker 3: on part one of this series. In the last episode,

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Speaker 3: we kicked things off talking about the science news story

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Speaker 3: that originally inspired us to look at this topic of

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Speaker 3: deep ocean predators. That was a paper published last November

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Speaker 3: in the journal Systematics and Biodiversity by Weston at All

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Speaker 3: documenting a newly discovered genus and species of predatory crustation

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Speaker 3: which is found in the Atacama Trench in the southeastern Pacific.

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Speaker 3: The species was given the name del Sabella common chaka

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Speaker 3: the Sugary Darkness. As we talked about, and oh boy,

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Speaker 3: that really sent us down a rabbit hole of scrutinizing

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Speaker 3: bizarre deep sea amphib body forms.

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Speaker 4: It was a good time. Yes.

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Speaker 3: We also talked a bit about the general challenges facing organisms,

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Speaker 3: including predators that live in the deepest parts of the ocean,

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Speaker 3: not just pressure, darkness, and cold, but also unique resource challenges.

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Speaker 3: Since sunlight doesn't reach the bottom of the ocean, it

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Speaker 3: is generally devoid of the primary photosynthetic organisms that form

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Speaker 3: the base of the food chain at the surface. Instead,

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Speaker 3: the deep ocean food chain tends to build off of

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Speaker 3: a couple of things. First, chemosynthetic organisms like bacteria and

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Speaker 3: archaea that feed off of hydrogen sulfide and other compounds

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Speaker 3: from geological sources like hydrothermal vents, and then second dead

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Speaker 3: organic material and detritus that rains down from the sun

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Speaker 3: touched ocean above. This is sometimes called marine snow. It

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Speaker 3: includes everything from fecal matter and tiny dead organisms sinking down,

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Speaker 3: things sinking down of every ape and size. And we

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Speaker 3: also talked about the fascinating temporary ecosystems that spring up

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Speaker 3: around a big payload that falls from above, like a

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Speaker 3: whale carcass when it hits the bottom and the abyssle

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Speaker 3: or hatel zone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things too that we were driving

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Speaker 2: home in that episode, and we're going to continue to

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Speaker 2: stress here and subsequent episodes, is that there is a

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Speaker 2: great deal of biodiversity in these depths, and it basically

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Speaker 2: runs opposite of what the prevailing theory was at one

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Speaker 2: point that you would just see a steady decline in

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Speaker 2: biodiversity down to nothing and there would just be no

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Speaker 2: life in the ocean past certain depths. And we know

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Speaker 2: that's not the case now, in part due to things

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Speaker 2: like the marine snow, the whale falls and those hydrothermal

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Speaker 2: environments as well, but also just in general, creatures that

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Speaker 2: have evolved to thrive at depths that we used to

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Speaker 2: think we're maybe just not possible.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, back to recapping part one. After we talked

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Speaker 3: about those general issues and talked about the predatory amphipod,

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Speaker 3: we looked at a totally different order of oceanic predators,

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Speaker 3: known as sciphonophores, and we discussed the fascinating way that

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Speaker 3: their bodies are put together, the versions of these organisms

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Speaker 3: that are as long as a whale as thin as

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Speaker 3: a rail, catching prey in a sort of net made

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Speaker 3: from their own bodies. And then we discussed how, despite

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Speaker 3: most sightings of siphonophores occurring at less extreme depths, Rob

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Speaker 3: you turned up some research that included probable sightings of

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Speaker 3: predatory siphonophores at Haitel depths down within the Mariana Trench.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and so today we're back to discuss more.

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Speaker 2: Now before we jump back in with the predators, though,

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Speaker 2: I want to just quickly discuss an example of a

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Speaker 2: scavenging organism in the mid depths. A polyget worm called

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Speaker 2: pobious messis, or simply the balloon worm as it's more practical,

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Speaker 2: it's more common name, because it does look like a balloon.

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Speaker 2: It has a small body, it's like one point five

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Speaker 2: inches or thirty six millimeters long, and it kind of

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Speaker 2: looks like I've seen it described as like a plastic bag,

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Speaker 2: like a plastic bag that is filled with fluid. It's

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Speaker 2: very translucent looking. And basically that marine snow. All of

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Speaker 2: those bits of flesh, fish poop, and other organic detritus

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Speaker 2: that just drifts down from the depths above. That's literally

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Speaker 2: all this thing eats. And these things are quite abundant

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Speaker 2: according to the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. They play

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Speaker 2: a key role in cycling nutrients like carbon from the

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Speaker 2: ocean's surface down into its depths. And also, no doubt

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Speaker 2: these are the prey animals for various predators in the

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Speaker 2: depths as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that lines up with something we talked about

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Speaker 3: in part one, where in these deep habitats a lot

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Speaker 3: of the prey species being scavengers. So again we got this,

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Speaker 3: you know, the kind of marine debris, organic debris of

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Speaker 3: various kinds raining down from above. Then you've got the

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Speaker 3: animals that scavenge off of that dead material, and then

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Speaker 3: you've got the predators that come and eat those scavengers,

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Speaker 3: and then perhaps also you may have predators that eat

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Speaker 3: those predators. But certainly you have lots of predators that

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Speaker 3: eat the scavenging things, scavenging things like amphipods that we

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Speaker 3: talked about last time. So there is an animal that

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Speaker 3: I want to bring up, a deep sea predator that

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Speaker 3: I came across just kind of randomly, that I wanted

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Speaker 3: to focus on for a bit, because yes, it looks weird,

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Speaker 3: but it looks weird in a way that is biologically

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Speaker 3: connected to some themes we've been exploring and will continue

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Speaker 3: to explore some more. And that is an abyssle predator

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Speaker 3: known as Hypnop's mead ee or the gridi fish. So

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Speaker 3: that genus and species is spelled ip and ops and

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Speaker 3: the species is mead. I I want to give a

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Speaker 3: shout out to the place where I learned about this fish.

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Speaker 3: It was in a mission log hosted on THEAA Ocean

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Speaker 3: Exploration Hub from May twenty seventeen by an oceanographer named

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Speaker 3: Astroid Lightner at the time of the University of Hawaii

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Speaker 3: at Manoa. I looked her up, and I believe she's

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Speaker 3: now affiliated with Oregon State University. But in this post,

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Speaker 3: Lightner is talking about what she and a group of

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Speaker 3: colleagues found during one particular exploration dive in the Central

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Speaker 3: Pacific Basin, specifically a soft sedimented abyssle plane around what's

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Speaker 3: called the Clipperton Fracture Zone at a depth of about

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Speaker 3: forty four hundred meters. And just want to note that

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Speaker 3: the overall expedition here, so this was one dive on

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Speaker 3: a larger expedition. The overall expedition was called Mountains and

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Speaker 3: the Deep exploring the Central Pacific Basin. And one cool

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Speaker 3: connection here is that she's mentioning some of the other

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Speaker 3: scientists involved in this dive, and one of them is

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Speaker 3: a previous stuff to blow your mind guest Diva Aimon,

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Speaker 3: who if Yeah, if you want to check out an

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Speaker 3: interview that we did with a marine biologist who studies

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Speaker 3: the deep sea, you should look up our episode with

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Speaker 3: her in the back catalog. It's got to be well,

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Speaker 3: probably five or six years ago now. But yeah, Diva

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Speaker 3: Amon spelled Amo.

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Speaker 2: N Oh, Yeah, she was great. The only guest we've

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Speaker 2: had on the show I think that has actually personally

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Speaker 2: been personally been down into the deep ocean.

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Speaker 3: I remember that being a good episode. I enjoyed talking

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Speaker 3: to her. But anyway, in this post, talking about this

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Speaker 3: dive in the Pacific, Lightner is describing a survey of

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Speaker 3: organisms that these researchers did over this kind of vast,

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Speaker 3: relatively flat, sedimented patch of seafloor. Now, in the last episode,

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Speaker 3: we were talking a good bit about the Hadel zone,

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Speaker 3: like the deepest forty five percent or so of the

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Speaker 3: ocean by depth if you're just looking vertically. Of course,

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Speaker 3: the Haitel zone is limited to ocean trenches, so that's

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Speaker 3: a small minority of the ocean's horizontal surface. Most of

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Speaker 3: the ocean floor is not nearly that deep, and it's

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Speaker 3: what we would normally call the abyssal zone. That's what

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Speaker 3: we're looking at here is the abysstal zone, so not

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Speaker 3: deep deep in the trenches, but still very deep. It's

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Speaker 3: just the floor of most of the regular part of

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Speaker 3: the ocean. And talking about this abyssal plane, Lightner says

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Speaker 3: that these habitats have long been assumed to be what

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Speaker 3: she calls biologically monotonous. I interpret that to mean you

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Speaker 3: would expect to find roughly the same distribution of species

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Speaker 3: all across them. But then she says, you know, really

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Speaker 3: that was just sort of a guess. There were not

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Speaker 3: enough observations of these habitats to know what life forms

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Speaker 3: were there and if there were major variations in species

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Speaker 3: throughout the space. So Lightner says that during this one

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Speaker 3: dive that she's talking about the most abundant fishes they

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Speaker 3: found on the seafloor. Here were the fish that I

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Speaker 3: mentioned at the top of this segment, I knops Meade

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Speaker 3: or the gridye fish. This was named after a twentieth

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Speaker 3: century American ichthyologist and named it Giles Mead. And she

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Speaker 3: says that they cataloged seven of these fish during one

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Speaker 3: dive exploring the soft sediment, and that they're actually pretty

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Speaker 3: easy to spot because of their huge, highly reflective eyes.

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Speaker 4: Now you might be trying to picture them in your head.

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Speaker 3: How reflective, How easy would these things be to spot? Well, Rob,

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Speaker 3: I want you to weigh in here after looking at

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Speaker 3: a picture in the outline.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, yes, that's rather distinctive.

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Speaker 3: So the fish's body is long and tubel like with

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Speaker 3: dark pigmentation. It appears to be gliding along the ocean

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Speaker 3: floor right over the top of the sediment, but on

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Speaker 3: the top of its head, So not really the front.

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Speaker 3: It's like right down on the top, it looks like

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Speaker 3: somebody has scooped out two little lima bean shaped depressions

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Speaker 3: in the fish's skull. And then so if you imagine

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Speaker 3: them together, like the flat sides of the lima bean

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Speaker 3: shapes are facing inward touching one another. So like put

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Speaker 3: two lima beans right next to each other with the

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Speaker 3: flat sides together, and you scoop out that volume from

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Speaker 3: the skull, and then you paint in the two scooped

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Speaker 3: out regions with neon yellow glow in the dark paint.

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Speaker 3: So it really does look like those toys I had

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Speaker 3: when I was a kid, a little monster where you

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Speaker 3: hold it up to the light bulb and then you

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Speaker 3: turn the light off and it glows. Looks exactly like that. Now,

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Speaker 3: this little guy might not look especially threatening given the

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Speaker 3: Lisa Frank eyes, or I don't know, maybe it does

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Speaker 3: look more threatening. I guess I'm sort of reminded of

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Speaker 3: some kind of movie poster. I can't remember exactly what

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Speaker 3: it is, but there's a monster that has eyes like this,

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Speaker 3: just big, you know, undifferentiated neon yellow spots. But whether

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Speaker 3: or not it looks threatening to you, this actually is

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Speaker 3: a predator eating small abyssle crustaceans. And while I think

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Speaker 3: its biology is not fully understood, it seems that these

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Speaker 3: bony plate like neon bean cup eyes lack a lens

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Speaker 3: and thus cannot resolve images. So it is seeing in

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Speaker 3: a way, but it's probably not seeing images. Instead, these

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Speaker 3: things are thought to only detect the presence or absence

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Speaker 3: of light. They're more like light spots, and thus are

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Speaker 3: probably designed by evolution to sense bioluminescence.

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Speaker 4: From nearby prey.

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Speaker 3: And I was thinking about this, and I think it's

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Speaker 3: just so interesting the different ways that light as just

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Speaker 3: a type of energy features throughout the trophic relationships. At

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Speaker 3: the surface where there's plenty of sunlight versus at the

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Speaker 3: bottom of the sea, light plays a role in the

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Speaker 3: food chain in both places, but those roles are so different.

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Speaker 3: So the surface light plays the primary energy role at

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Speaker 3: the base of the food chain. Light from the sun

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Speaker 3: powers photosynthesis and plants and other autotrophs, and that sets

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Speaker 3: off the chain of eating that goes all the way

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Speaker 3: up to the top predators. And then, in addition to

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Speaker 3: its role as the base energy input on the whole system,

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Speaker 3: it also provides probably the most important type of information

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Speaker 3: that fast moving animals use to survive and negotiate predation

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Speaker 3: relationships from either side of the predator prey relationship. So

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Speaker 3: whether you're a predator or a prey animal on the surface,

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Speaker 3: one of your main jobs is seeing other animals and

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Speaker 3: in some cases avoiding being seen. It's all an information

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Speaker 3: game based on reflected light from the sun deep at

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Speaker 3: the bottom of the ocean. It seems that light is

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Speaker 3: still a major energy input on the food chain because

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Speaker 3: of course it powers the food chain up above at

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Speaker 3: the surface, which then at some point rains down as

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Speaker 3: the marine snow or the whalefall for the scavengers at

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Speaker 3: the bottom of the ocean. But there is also at

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Speaker 3: the bottom of the ocean a different energy input. You

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Speaker 3: got the energy input from chemosynthetic organisms around like sea

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Speaker 3: floor vents and things, and then also down in the

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Speaker 3: abyssle or the hatel darkness. Light plays an important relationship

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Speaker 3: in this information competition between predators and prey, but it's

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Speaker 3: not reflected light from the sun that plays that role.

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Speaker 3: It seems to be primarily bioluminescent light and the way

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Speaker 3: that it contributes to that struggle for information advantage between

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Speaker 3: predators and prey is a bit different.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, it is that it's not a realm

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Speaker 2: where there is no light, but the sort of like

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Speaker 2: the rules of light have changed, the importance of light

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Speaker 2: has changed. And so I guess you could look at

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Speaker 2: the grid eye fish here as being an example of

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Speaker 2: a case where evolution has just decided, you know, we

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Speaker 2: can scale back on the eyes a little bit. We

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Speaker 2: still need them, but we need them for just specific things.

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Speaker 2: And the next example we're going to discuss is one

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Speaker 2: that kind of goes in a different direction entirely with

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Speaker 2: the eyes. It really feels more like a scaling up

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Speaker 2: but also a hyper specialization of its ocular equipment.

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Speaker 4: Tell me more.

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Speaker 2: So, I'm going to warn you that this creature's common

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Speaker 2: name does sound a bit ridiculous, and it may earworm

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Speaker 2: you with a Beatles song. But we're talking about strawberry

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Speaker 2: squid here. Strawberry squids forever so called for their red

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Speaker 2: coloration as well as the little marks on their skin

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Speaker 2: that really do look like the seeds of a strawberry.

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Speaker 4: Oh, they so do.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you zoom in on the skin of

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Speaker 3: this thing, it's uncanny how much it looks like a strawberry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because sometimes you know the naming of these creatures

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Speaker 2: that it can be a bit off and just you

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Speaker 2: kind of have to squint a little bit to see

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Speaker 2: it for yourself. But here's pretty spot on. Its scientific

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Speaker 2: name is histiotouthis heteropsis, and the heteropsis gets more to

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Speaker 2: the point here as it translates to different sight or

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Speaker 2: different eye.

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Speaker 4: Oh yes, okay, so this is the squid.

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Speaker 3: If people have seen a picture of this before and

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Speaker 3: the thing you didn't notice about it was the strawberry

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Speaker 3: texture of the skin, you may have noticed the two

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Speaker 3: wildly different looking eyes.

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Speaker 2: That's right, almost kind of a I'm reminded of the

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Speaker 2: whole sleep with one eye open thing, but it has

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Speaker 2: like but they're both open, but they're just different sizes

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Speaker 2: and they see in different ways. It's pretty amazing.

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Speaker 4: It's like the christ pantocrater.

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Speaker 2: So, according to the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute, our

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Speaker 2: strawberry squid here reaches a maximum mantle length of teen

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Speaker 2: centimeters or five inches, and its habitat is the midwater

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Speaker 2: region of the twilight or mesopelagic zone, so we're talking

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Speaker 2: the upper portions of the ephotic zone, the dark ocean,

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Speaker 2: but the dark ocean. Nonetheless, However, the strawberry squid may

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Speaker 2: reach depths of three thy three hundred feet during the day,

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Speaker 2: but then migrates to shallower waters at night.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and so we've talked about organisms like this before.

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Speaker 3: I mean, one great example being the sperm whale that

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Speaker 3: operates at in radically different light regimes at different parts

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Speaker 3: of of its sort of feeding cycle. Like it might

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Speaker 3: come up to shallow waters, of course, the whale would

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Speaker 3: have to come up to the surface to breathe, but

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Speaker 3: then it dives very deep into the dark in order

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Speaker 3: to feed. And this would be another type of organism

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Speaker 3: that goes a little bit more up into the light

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Speaker 3: zone and then down into the darker zone.

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Speaker 2: Right right. But of course, unlike the sperm whale, and

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Speaker 2: the sperm whale does at different phases of its life

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Speaker 2: have to deal with predation. But this critter is more

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Speaker 2: like your common housecat, being both predator and prey at

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Speaker 2: all times. You know, not so much in the confines

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Speaker 2: of your house, but in the confines of the natural world.

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Speaker 2: So there are two properties that are especially revealing here

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Speaker 2: with this organism regarding life in the deep. First, I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about a little bit about its strawberry

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Speaker 2: coloration and as well as the seeds. So again those

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Speaker 2: are not seeds. Obviously, those little marks on its red

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Speaker 2: flesh are bioluminescent photophores. Those are light emitting organs. Now,

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Speaker 2: in general, cephalopods use photophores for different forms of camouflage

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Speaker 2: and antipredation, and they can pop up in various locations

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Speaker 2: on the cephalopod body plan. But for the strawberry squid

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Speaker 2: here they're on the outer skin and the purpose here

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Speaker 2: does qualify as anti predation.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so that's kind of hard to understand because you

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Speaker 3: would think that you would think that lighting up your

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Speaker 3: body would attract predators, not repel them.

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Speaker 4: So how does this work?

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Speaker 2: That's right, Well, we have to remember that this is

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Speaker 2: the twilight zone. Some light does make it down this

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Speaker 2: far during the day, and if something is looking up

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Speaker 2: at you from beneath, it will see your outline against

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Speaker 2: that filtered light. If you put in like sci fi

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Speaker 2: film setting, imagine a starship, large starship powered down. It's

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Speaker 2: just a dark form, but it's moving against the stars,

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00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,360
Speaker 2: and with a keen eye, you might notice that when

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Speaker 2: you might think, well, if you wanted to disguise your

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Speaker 2: powered down vessel, if you were to cover it with

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00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,120
Speaker 2: little shiny stars, well, that might help mask your appearance.

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Speaker 2: That it might allow you to blend in to the starfield.

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Speaker 2: And that's sort of what's going on with the strawberry

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Speaker 2: squid here. It uses its bioluminescence to mask itself against

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Speaker 2: to blend in with the filtered down light from above

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Speaker 2: against predators below. I have a quote here that explains

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Speaker 2: this general adaptation. This is from a nineteen eighty three

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Speaker 2: text by Richard Edward Young titled Oceanic Bioluminescence and Overview

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Speaker 2: of General Functions. He writes, quote, this function is the

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Speaker 2: only one for which we have substantial experimental data. The

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Speaker 2: hypothesis is an old and simple one. Dahlgren nineteen sixteen

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Speaker 2: suggested that blue light from the ventral photophores and squids

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Speaker 2: would cause these animals in deep water to blend with

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Speaker 2: the sunlight when viewed from below. The process that allows

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Speaker 2: a mesopolagic animal to eliminate its silhouette with bioluminescence and

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Speaker 2: thereby conceal itself requires a very sophisticated mechanism. In the

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Speaker 2: animals that utilize it.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: For maximum effectiveness, they must precisely match their luminescence to

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Speaker 2: the intensity, angular distribution, and color of the downwelling light.

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Speaker 2: For those that counter illuminate in near surface waters at night,

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Speaker 2: where the flight field is much more variable than in

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Speaker 2: deep water, the mechanism must be especially complex.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So it's almost like what we see in the movie

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Speaker 3: Predator in a way where you know the predator's invisibility.

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Speaker 3: Cloak seems to be a way of kind of projecting

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Speaker 3: an image of the light patterns from behind the alien

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Speaker 3: onto the front facing side of it, so that when

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Speaker 3: you're looking at it, it's it's like a movie screen

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Speaker 3: showing you what you would expect to see if the

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00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 3: thing were not there from the from the backside. It

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Speaker 3: might not have to be that exact with with like

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Speaker 3: outlines and images in the case of the squid, but

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Speaker 3: it does need to very closely match the light intensity

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Speaker 3: and the color patterns and angular distribution of the light

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Speaker 3: that would be coming down from above otherwise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So to humanize this sort of light show, it

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Speaker 2: may not be as as impressive as watching say a

375
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Speaker 2: cuttlefish or some other you know an or or some

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Speaker 2: sort of you know shallow water octopus blending in when

377
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Speaker 2: it's environment with its camouflage. But it is a complex act, nonetheless,

378
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 2: So it isn't just a matter of like, let's just

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Speaker 2: throw some stars up there on your hide so that

380
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Speaker 2: whatever's below can't can't make you out. Like. It's more

381
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Speaker 2: nuanced and it's about hitting the right light intensity at

382
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Speaker 2: all times. Now, that strawberry red coloration, that's a little

383
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Speaker 2: bit more straightforward, but it reveals another curious relationship with

384
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 2: light in the deep. This is one we've touched on

385
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Speaker 2: before in the past, and it is red. The color red,

386
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Speaker 2: maybe the color of caution. And notice on the surface,

387
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 2: you know, it is the color you might wear to

388
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Speaker 2: a wedding if you want to attract attention that sort

389
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Speaker 2: of thing. It is the color of it's a flashy color.

390
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 2: It's a sports car color, right, But in the depths

391
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Speaker 2: it's a stealth color. And that's because red light doesn't

392
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Speaker 2: filter this far deep, and so red organisms appear quite

393
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Speaker 2: black in the natural illumination i e. Not like submarine illumination,

394
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Speaker 2: thus further cloaking the organism here in question from predators,

395
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Speaker 2: but in a more passive way.

396
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Speaker 3: I see, so like it's because the longer wavelengths of

397
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Speaker 3: visible light don't make it as deep in the water,

398
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Speaker 3: so the red, the more red colors just don't really

399
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 3: get reflected. Everything's kind of blue shifted down there.

400
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. But finally we have to talk about the strawberry

401
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 2: squid's eyes and greater depth here. It does have very

402
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: weird eyes again, different sizes, one big tubular and yellow lensed,

403
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 2: and this is to keep an eye out above for

404
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 2: the shadows of prey moving through dim waters, and then

405
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 2: there's this much smaller specialized eye to keep an eye

406
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Speaker 2: out below for bioluminescence of potential predators.

407
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Speaker 3: So it's looking for shadows that it wants to eat

408
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 3: and glowing things that want to.

409
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Speaker 2: Eat it, yes, exactly. And it's I mean, it's really

410
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: hard to think about this in terms of like the

411
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: human perspective, because I mean you might imagine, like, what

412
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: if I had one eye to see really well in

413
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Speaker 2: the day and one eye that would see really well

414
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 2: in the night, well sort of, And in fact, there

415
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: were older theories that that's what was going on here,

416
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Speaker 2: that this squid had two different eyes, one for when

417
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: it was at lower depths, in one when it was

418
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 2: a greater depths. But this would only work. This human

419
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 2: example would only work if you were living in the

420
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: sort of environment that this creature lives in, in which

421
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: you were on the threshold of darkness and light pretty

422
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: much at all times.

423
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, in a way, we do have eyes

424
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: that can function in high and low light conditions because

425
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 3: we have adjustable size, Like we can adjust the aperture

426
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 3: of the pupil, so you know, they contract and when

427
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 3: there's a lot of light and dilate when there's less light.

428
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Speaker 4: But this is fit.

429
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is squid is in a different situation than

430
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 3: we are because we are almost never in a situation

431
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: where we need to be looking in one direction where

432
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 3: there's more light and in another direction where there's less light. Also,

433
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 3: we have been knock killer vision, so generally we're looking

434
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 3: in the same direction with both of our eyes to

435
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: get a perception of depth. Instead, the squid really has

436
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 3: eyes on the back of its head whichever way you

437
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: look from, and one way needs to be looking toward

438
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 3: the sky and the other eye needs to be looking away.

439
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another imperfect way of thinking about this would be

440
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 2: like if you had a human with one normal eye

441
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: and then one eye that was essentially blind but saw

442
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: really well into the astral plane, ever on the lookout

443
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: for astro zombies that are coming to try and kill you.

444
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: So these eyes apparently differentiate as the squid enters adulthood,

445
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: distorting the shape of the head to accommodate the larger

446
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 2: upward gazing eye. And the dimorphism is because it's a

447
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: creature again with an eye and two realms of light

448
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: at the same time. And I was reading a bit

449
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: more about this. Thompson, Robinson, and Johnson explored the creature's

450
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 2: asymmetric vision in a twenty seventeen paper published in Philosophical

451
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: Transactions with the Royal Society b. They point out that

452
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: the dim to dark mesoplagic region of the deep sea

453
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: boasts the highest diversity of visual adaptations in the sea.

454
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: A lot of evolutionary energy has to go into scraping

455
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 2: out a survival story in this region, dealing with bioluminescence

456
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: below and filtered sunlight above, but it is quote a

457
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: fertile environment for eye evolution. Now we mentioned that that

458
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: upward gazing eye has a yellow linb and they point

459
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: out that this may be used to break up the

460
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 2: counter illumination camouflage of their prey. They found it in

461
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: sixty five percent of the specimens that they looked at.

462
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: Yellow lenses are apparently common in upward looking deep sea

463
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 2: organisms as well, like in fish, because they're thought to

464
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 2: quote break counter illumination camouflage by enhancing spectral differences between

465
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: down welling sunlight and bioluminescent camouflage. So it's geared at

466
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: deciphering the very sore of counter illumination CAMO camouflage that

467
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: it itself uses.

468
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 3: Mm okay, So it's like it simultaneously is wearing a

469
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 3: kind of lead shielding and X ray glasses.

470
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

471
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: They point out that body posture is also key. They

472
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 2: position themselves with their head and arms downward, with the

473
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: posterior mantle pointed upward in a vertical posture, and this

474
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 2: ensures that they're pointing their photophores downward again to cast

475
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: that counter illumination spell. And I think it's just such

476
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 2: a fascinating example of a form that has evolved to

477
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: thrive in a delicate environment. So their predators include various

478
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: sharks and also even whales. And as for what they

479
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: themselves prey upon, stomach contents suggest a mix of fish,

480
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 2: other squid as well as crustaceans strawberry squids forever.

481
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 4: Let me take you.

482
00:27:50,200 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: Down all right now. The next deep sea organism I

483
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 2: want to talk about is the fin deep sea octopuses

484
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 2: of the genus Grimpotothus, commonly referred to as Dumbo octopuses

485
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 2: because I mean, well, just look at them. Included a

486
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: couple of images here for you, Joe. They're adorable and

487
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 2: they boast earl like fins that remind many of Dumbo,

488
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: the flying elephant.

489
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: They look tremendously like Dumbo. Yes, extremely cute and with

490
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: big floppy ears and almost yeah, I kind of elephantine

491
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 3: shape to their lumpy head body mm hmm.

492
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: Sometimes the position of their arms also kind of reminds

493
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: one of a trunk or trunks, like it's some sort

494
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: of weird multi trunk elephant, that sort of thing. So

495
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: the Dumbo octopuses, they're members of the Serena suborder of octopods,

496
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: who are notable for having evolved away from jet propulsion

497
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: in favor of fin propulsion. So if you've ever consumed

498
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: any cephalopod a media, or you know, learned about them

499
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 2: in the past, you know that I think squid are

500
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,239
Speaker 2: some of the more fabulous examples of this. They use

501
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: jet propulsion. They take they they take in a bunch

502
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: of of water and then they jet it out to

503
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: push them along through the water, often at you know,

504
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: nice high speeds.

505
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 4: Well marine rockets, yeah.

506
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: Little marine rockets. Uh. These octopods, however, have jettison back.

507
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: They also tend to lack anal flaps and ink sacs,

508
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 2: so they can't jet ink, which is another common self

509
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: defense mechanism of cephalopods being able to just squirt out

510
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 2: that cloud of ink and make a quick escape.

511
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like the it's like the Batman, you know,

512
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 4: smoke escape pom. Right.

513
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: And they also lack chromatophores, so they can't adjust their coloration.

514
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: They can't do any kind of blending in with their

515
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: environment other than what their uh, their their natural coloration

516
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: is all ready providing. Okay, their arms are web together,

517
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: which also earns them the informal name of umbrella octopuses.

518
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 4: Oh well, that's just adorable.

519
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: So what we have then, is as a bunch of

520
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: creatures that seem to have just abandoned most of like

521
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: the really expensive, evolutionarily speaking, self defense mechanisms that their

522
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: can have evolved in favor of a more just sort

523
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 2: of drifting, leisurely existence. Now why would that be, Well,

524
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: it has everything to do with how deep they actually reside.

525
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: They reside at extreme depths of at least thirteen one

526
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: hundred feet or four thousand meters, putting them squarely in

527
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: the abyssopal agic zone, so way down there, not quite

528
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: into the Hadel but still pretty turned deep like way

529
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: like in a way, we keep mentioning the Hadel zone

530
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 2: as being like, this is the extreme, this is where

531
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: the real depth happens. But no, the Hadel zone is

532
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: just that extra topping on the invert did cake here

533
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: and everything is already just crushingly deep before we reach

534
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: that threshold.

535
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

536
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: Us talking about the ocean trenches was not to suggest

537
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 3: that the horizontal surface of most of the bottom of

538
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: the ocean is not that deep. It is the regular

539
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: abyssle zone is deep.

540
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,959
Speaker 2: So what are the dumbo octopuses eat? Well, first of all,

541
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: they're not that big, eight to twelve inches in length,

542
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: and here in the depths they foread for pelegic invertebrates

543
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: generally close to the seafloor in the area that they're thriving,

544
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 2: but they don't. It's important to note they don't like

545
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: crawl around seemingly on the seafloor like like other octopods

546
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: are observed to do. They live, you know, in the water.

547
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: They do go down to the sea floor as well, though,

548
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: to lay their eggs, generally on deep water corals. But otherwise, yeah,

549
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: they're free swimming, dreamy floaters in the depths that have

550
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: you know, cast aside all of their evolved andry. And

551
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 2: it's because you know, they don't seem to have to

552
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: deal with that many predators. They do have predators, you know,

553
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: generally diving predators from above, but it seems that they

554
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: likely lost their various costly defense mechanisms because they thrive

555
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: in a rather depopulated region of the deep.

556
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 3: Okay, And this is a type of adaptation that we've

557
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: seen in other animals and other ecosystems, where you know,

558
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 3: you can lose a lot of your defenses if you

559
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 3: just adapt so that you are able to thrive in

560
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: a difficult environment where they're not a lot of predators.

561
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me in an imperfect way, I'm sure

562
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: of when I was a kid, I would look at

563
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: all these airplane illustrations and sketches, you know, and like

564
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 2: the er some of your higher altitude planes they often

565
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: had like really like cool looks, you know, like the

566
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: SR seventy one Blackbird or you know, various strategic bombers

567
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: and all. But then when you get to the U two,

568
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: which is a very very high it was you know,

569
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: a very high altitude spyplane. You know, it looks looks

570
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: a little dumb, and it just has really long wings,

571
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: but it's you know, it's it's altitude was its defense.

572
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: And in a sense, this is this is kind of

573
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: like the inversion of that, like its depth is its defense,

574
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: and therefore it doesn't need, you know, to look crazy.

575
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 2: It doesn't need to you know, have a bunch of

576
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: guns on it or in this case, you know, it's

577
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: various octopid defense mechanisms. Now, their reproductive systems also speak

578
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 2: to their isolation, and we see this in other organisms.

579
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: We're going to discuss another one, I think in the

580
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: next episode. If you're if you're thriving in an area

581
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: where there's just you're basically in a desert, well you're

582
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: you're not going to run into potential mates as much either.

583
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not going to run into foes, but

584
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: you're also not going to run into potential friends. So

585
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: a female keeps multiple eggs in various states of development

586
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: inside of her body, and she can also store sperm

587
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: for extended periods of time as well, thus making the

588
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: most out of these infrequent encounters with the opposite sex. Furthermore,

589
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: the mother doesn't stay with the eggs once they've been laid.

590
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: According to a twenty eighteen article by Shay at All

591
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: in Current Biology, the young here hatch as fully confident juveniles,

592
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: so a newly hatched dumbo octopod can immediately begin carrying on,

593
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: feeding and so forth like any adult born.

594
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 4: Ready.

595
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I love these guys. I mean they're weird looking,

596
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 2: They're definitely weird, But their weirdness is one of isolation

597
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 2: and a casting off of defensive adaptation speed ink camouflage,

598
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 2: because they've adapted to live so deep, not so deep

599
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: that they can't be found by predators, but seemingly such

600
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 2: predation is just far less common. However, it is stressed

601
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 2: in some of the literatures looking at that they do

602
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: deter predators by ballooning up. That's one thing that they

603
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: kept like they can balloon up their bodies and their

604
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: umbrella arms to appear larger than they actually are. This,

605
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: of course, is a common anti predation feature, and so

606
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 2: they've they've held onto that one. That's one that they

607
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: I guess it's not too costly from an evolutionary standpoint,

608
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 2: and they can keep that one for when they need it.

609
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,479
Speaker 3: But in the case of this animal, that just sounds adorable. Look,

610
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: I'm big and scary.

611
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, how big and scary could they? Could they

612
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: end up looking? Yeah, it seems like that's, you know,

613
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 2: kind of like a last ditch defense mechanism. But for

614
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 2: the for the most part, it's just I'm so deep,

615
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: you're probably not gonna find me. The odds are with

616
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: me that you can't find an eating all right, Where

617
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 2: We're gonna go ahead and close out this episode of

618
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 2: stuff to blow your mind, but we're gonna be back.

619
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 2: We have more to discuss in our look at dark

620
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: ocean predators, you know we have. We're gonna get back

621
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: to a creature we mentioned in passing in the first episode,

622
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: and I believe next episode is also going to be

623
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 2: the one where I get to discuss one of the

624
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: deep sea predators that are or if you've probably thought

625
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: up any like when are they going to talk about

626
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 2: this one? Well, the next episode is probably the episode.

627
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: In the meantime, Yeah, write in, We'd love to hear

628
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: from you. Just a reminder that Stuff to Blow Your

629
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: Mind is primarily a science and culture episode, with core

630
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 2: episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short form episodes on Wednesdays

631
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: and on Fridays. We set aside most serious concerns to

632
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema.

633
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

634
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

635
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

636
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

637
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact stuff to Blow your

638
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

639
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

640
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

641
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,800
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642
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Speaker 4: Nations ra