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Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures

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Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: My name is Nicholas Takowski. I'm a writer and one

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Speaker 2: of the producers of this podcast. And when I was seventeen,

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Speaker 2: I fell down the side of a mountain. Sixteen years later,

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Speaker 2: I finally dealt with the repercussions.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts

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Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were

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Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand

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Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death.

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Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories

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Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please

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Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering

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Speaker 1: for some listener, and discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: I guess you start at the beginning. We had a

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Speaker 2: happy family, at least for a kid. I had a

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Speaker 2: happy childhood. You're kind of protected from your parents' bullshit

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Speaker 2: when you're really little if your parents are any kind

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Speaker 2: of decent and mine work. I had a pretty average

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Speaker 2: kind of suburban life, you know, played outside with my friends,

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Speaker 2: and I really liked books. I really enjoyed reading. But

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Speaker 2: you know, my parents, they weren't right for each other.

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Speaker 2: They didn't got them well, and so when I was

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Speaker 2: ten years old, they sort of split and that was that.

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Speaker 2: My mother found a guy pretty quickly. He was my

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Speaker 2: little sister's tee ball coach. His name was Bill. His

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Speaker 2: name was not Bill, but for the purposes of this story,

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Speaker 2: his name was Bill. Bill was kind of a good

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Speaker 2: old boy. He liked to hunt. He was a big

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Speaker 2: fan of sports, big fan of anything that took place outdoors.

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Speaker 2: He really enjoyed Ernest Hemingway, which, weirdly enough, later on

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Speaker 2: I also would really enjoy. I just enjoyed the writing,

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Speaker 2: but he wanted to be Hemingway. That meant he fancied

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Speaker 2: himself a man's man, and even as a small child,

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Speaker 2: I knew that's not what I was. I was a

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Speaker 2: soft I was a gentle lad. I was a reader.

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Speaker 2: I enjoyed drawing comic books. I grudgingly spent time outside

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Speaker 2: in the neighborhood. Once I reached a certain age, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was not into sports. My little brother was my

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Speaker 2: little sister to a certain extent, but not me. I

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Speaker 2: ended up going to performing arts school, and so Bill

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Speaker 2: and I did not get along. I was pretty sure

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Speaker 2: early on that Bill hated me, I mean really really

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Speaker 2: hated me. It felt like he would go out of

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Speaker 2: his way to make me miserable. Then my mother constantly

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Speaker 2: was on him about being easier on me, but he

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Speaker 2: sensed I was soft, and I thought for a long

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Speaker 2: time that maybe he was trying to toughened me up,

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Speaker 2: but it just bread a lot of misery. I was

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Speaker 2: scared of him. He was scary. When I was thirteen

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Speaker 2: years old, I don't even remember what I did, but

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Speaker 2: I do remember that he made me pull down my

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Speaker 2: pants and my underwear in front of everybody so that

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Speaker 2: he could spank me with this belt at the age

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Speaker 2: of thirteen. Like, that's messed up. I think it's messed

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Speaker 2: up to hit kids anyway, but man's that's fucked up.

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Speaker 2: But mostly he just bullied me. He just bullied the

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Speaker 2: shit out of me all the time. And I went

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Speaker 2: from being a happy kid to being just very anxious

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Speaker 2: all of the time, feeling trapped, feeling like if I

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Speaker 2: made any misstep or any mistake, that fucking fury of

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Speaker 2: Hell was going to come down on me. And so

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Speaker 2: that's how I spent my adolescence cowering and fear avoiding

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Speaker 2: his gaze. In Bill's Journey to Being the Manliest Man,

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Speaker 2: he'd lived out in Colorado for a time outside of

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Speaker 2: Estes Park, and he'd lived in this little cabin with

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Speaker 2: no electricity, I think, with like running water, but he

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Speaker 2: had an outhouse. It was right next to a creek,

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Speaker 2: and he claimed he lived there for a while, but

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Speaker 2: I'm dubious of that. I imagine he spent like a

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Speaker 2: month out there when he was in his twenties or something,

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Speaker 2: and then blew it up in his head as like

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Speaker 2: this fucking grand adventure because he had delusions of grandeur

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Speaker 2: because he was that guy, of course, but he wanted

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Speaker 2: to show us Vesta's Park, Colorado. So my mom and

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Speaker 2: my stepsisters, and my brother and sister and I all

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Speaker 2: jumped on a plane and we went out to Colorado

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Speaker 2: and we rented a cabin and it was a beautiful cabin,

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Speaker 2: and it was my first time out west, and I

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Speaker 2: was enamored with it. Of course, it was weirdly one

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Speaker 2: of the few happy memories that I have were the

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Speaker 2: days kind of leading up to the event, you know,

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Speaker 2: we went on hikes. It was all beautiful. I was

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Speaker 2: seeing this landscape it that was so unfamiliar, that was

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Speaker 2: so sweeping and gorgeous. I really just this the thrill

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Speaker 2: of the new, the thrill of something that you haven't

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Speaker 2: seen before. For like a Georgia boy who hadn't really

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Speaker 2: left the southeast very much up to that point. It was.

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Speaker 2: It was huge for me. And then one morning he

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Speaker 2: decided he wanted to take us on one of his

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Speaker 2: favorite hikes. It's a place called gem Lake, right out

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Speaker 2: on the border of the Rocky Mountain National Forest, and

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Speaker 2: it's just a pathway up a mountain, maybe a two

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Speaker 2: hour hike up, and once you get up to the top,

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Speaker 2: there's this gorgeous little pond that I think is probably

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Speaker 2: snow melt, but in June, which is when we were there,

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Speaker 2: it was beautiful and clear and serene and just a

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Speaker 2: really idyllic place. I was enamored with it right away,

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Speaker 2: and my brother, who was kind of a daredevil, was

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Speaker 2: as well, because once you get up to the pond,

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Speaker 2: there's more to climb. There's a giant rock formation that

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Speaker 2: goes up I don't know, maybe another hundred feet in

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Speaker 2: the air, and my brother wanted me to climate with him.

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Speaker 2: We're like, all right, famously risk averse. I fear for

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Speaker 2: my physical safety, or used to fear for my physical safety,

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Speaker 2: very gillerly. But you know, it looked like I could,

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Speaker 2: I could climb this formation. It looked like my brother

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Speaker 2: and I would have a good time, So we started climbing.

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Speaker 2: My brother was always athletic, I was not. He moved

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Speaker 2: faster than me, but we both made it up to

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Speaker 2: the top and just had the most beautiful view of

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Speaker 2: the rockies from up there and the forest, and the

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Speaker 2: forest just stretched out so far. It was amazing. You know.

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Speaker 2: We stayed up there, we joked around, we threw pebbles down,

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Speaker 2: you know, we had a good time. But after about

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes of climbing around up there, we decided it

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Speaker 2: was time to get back down. We didn't want Bill

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Speaker 2: getting pissed at us. So my brother immediately goes straight

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Speaker 2: back down the way we came. I mean, just like

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Speaker 2: scaling down a rock wall like a spider monkey a

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Speaker 2: just like going And I'd seen what I thought was

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Speaker 2: like more of a winding path down, so I decided

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Speaker 2: to take the safe route. And it was it was

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Speaker 2: there was just like it was kind of a gentle

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Speaker 2: slope down sort of the back of this rock formation,

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Speaker 2: sort of opposite the little pond up top gem like proper.

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Speaker 2: But I figured, you know, and climb down this and

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Speaker 2: then once you get low enough, you switch back and

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Speaker 2: just walk back on this little footpath that I thought

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Speaker 2: i'd seen as when we'd climbed up. So you know,

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Speaker 2: I was had my backpack on and I was very

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Speaker 2: carefully walking down this you know, slope, when all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, my feet came out from under me, and

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Speaker 2: I mean really came out like clown slipping on a

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Speaker 2: banana came out and I landed hard on my back

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Speaker 2: and my ass, and there had been gravel that I

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Speaker 2: hadn't seen, and that gravel caused me to start sliding

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Speaker 2: down this slope. Now, as I'm going down this slope

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Speaker 2: to the left, there's just this sheer drops. It's the

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Speaker 2: it's the drop that like my brother had climbed down.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know how far down it was, but

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Speaker 2: it was at least thirty feet maybe forty feet down

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Speaker 2: this drop to my left, and I'm sliding on my back. Luckily,

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Speaker 2: my backpack had like inched up my back, so it

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Speaker 2: was kind of like underneath my head, cushioning my head

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Speaker 2: from hitting the rock as I slid. As I started

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Speaker 2: gaining speed here, and I noticed that I was kind

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Speaker 2: of edging closer to this, to this, this sort of

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Speaker 2: sheer drop down. This probably all happened in under ten seconds,

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Speaker 2: but it felt like everything was moving in slow motion.

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Speaker 2: At this moment. I could see that I'm being edged

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Speaker 2: toward this drop, and so I try to flip over

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Speaker 2: on my stomach, and I spread my arms as far

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Speaker 2: out as I can, and I just grip with my

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Speaker 2: fingers and my feet just barely go out over the edge,

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Speaker 2: and I managed to stop myself. Now in this I've

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Speaker 2: gotten like scraped up my back. Was my lower back

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Speaker 2: where the backpack had slid up and pulled my shirt

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Speaker 2: up with it, was all scratched up. Two of my

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Speaker 2: fingernails were a little bit bloody from trying to like

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Speaker 2: grip sheer stone, and there was grit underneath them that

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Speaker 2: I think I was pulling out weeks later. But I'd

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Speaker 2: managed to stop my and I don't know how far.

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Speaker 2: I slid a few yards a little bit more, but

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Speaker 2: I found myself pulling myself away from that ledge and

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Speaker 2: just on my belly, slowly working my way down until

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Speaker 2: I reached a point that was clear of gravel where

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Speaker 2: I felt safe standing up again, and I just made

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Speaker 2: my way a little further down so I could switch back.

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Speaker 2: But I realized once I kind of got to a

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Speaker 2: stopping point that I couldn't see the path that I

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Speaker 2: thought had been there, and that in fact, I was

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Speaker 2: just on the wrong side of this mountain from where

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Speaker 2: i'd been. I've always thought that I have a pretty

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Speaker 2: good sense of direction. I always thought that I that

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Speaker 2: I could find my way out of the maze if

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Speaker 2: I needed to. But uh, yeah, I don't know. Maybe

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Speaker 2: the fall had just discombobulated me. I don't know. What

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Speaker 2: I do now is that when I started kind of

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Speaker 2: moving in the direction that I thought the path would be,

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Speaker 2: I just got more lost. Now we were on a

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Speaker 2: mountain in a range of mountains. I was on the

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Speaker 2: National Forest side of the mountains, so I literally could

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Speaker 2: not see anything but trees and more mountains. But I

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Speaker 2: knew if I keep just kind of clinging to the

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Speaker 2: side of this mountain and like going in one direction counterclockwise,

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Speaker 2: that eventually I would come out. I'd see a road,

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Speaker 2: I'd see something. I didn't know that it would be

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Speaker 2: four hours in the wilderness. Not I didn't know it

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Speaker 2: would take me so long to get back, but I was,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was worried. It's already darker than it was.

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Speaker 2: The afternoon was wearing on and it was approaching evening,

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Speaker 2: and I finally saw as I was turning this one

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Speaker 2: little corner, I finally saw rock formation that I'd seen

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Speaker 2: while I was climbing up and it was my brother

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Speaker 2: had made fun of me for it because I've got

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Speaker 2: like a what my great grandmother calls a noble nose,

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Speaker 2: So it's big. It's pretty big. It was especially big

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Speaker 2: when I was seventeen, and like I was just a

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Speaker 2: skinny little kid when I was one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 2: five pounds, like my nose was, you know, it stuck out,

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Speaker 2: it was prominent. And my brother had said this rock

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Speaker 2: formation looked just like my nose. And I saw that

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Speaker 2: rock formation again and was really glad that my brother

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Speaker 2: had had pointed it out to me and mocked me

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Speaker 2: because it had stuck in my skull. And I think

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Speaker 2: that had I not, I would have possibly missed the

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Speaker 2: actual trail that we'd come up on. So I get

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Speaker 2: back to the trail and I'm like halfway down it,

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Speaker 2: and I realize now that after like climbing four hours

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Speaker 2: around the side of this mountain, that I now have

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Speaker 2: to walk back up the trail to get to Gem Lake.

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Speaker 2: And I'm exhausted and I'm bleeding. My back is bleeding,

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Speaker 2: my fingers are bleeding. My i'd scrapes on my side,

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Speaker 2: it scrapes on my face. I was dirty, I was sweaty,

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Speaker 2: I was anxious, and I had to climb back up

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Speaker 2: to Gem Lake. Although about ten minutes into climbing back up,

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00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:55,040
Speaker 2: suddenly my family rounds the bend and my brother and

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00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 2: sister and stepsisters ran up to me, and my mom

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00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,760
Speaker 2: ran to me and putting them like just embraced me

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Speaker 2: and was like, oh my god. I was so scared.

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Speaker 2: I was so scared. And she pulled away and she

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Speaker 2: smacked me in the face upside the head and was like,

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Speaker 2: don't do that again. I was like, it was it

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00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 2: was an accident. I was trying to be safe. And

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Speaker 2: that was when my stepfather approached and all Bill said

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00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 2: was did you almost die? And I said yes, and

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00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 2: he said good and he kept walking. And it was

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Speaker 2: one of the few times that I turned to my

230
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Speaker 2: mom and I was like, what, that's messed up? And

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Speaker 2: that was when she said, he was walking us down

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Speaker 2: to the car and then he was going to come

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Speaker 2: back up and look for you. And if we didn't

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Speaker 2: hear from him by dark, then we were supposed to

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Speaker 2: call the park rangers. But he was going to come

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Speaker 2: back and look for you. And I said, okay. So

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00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:59,160
Speaker 2: I followed them back down and we got in the

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Speaker 2: car and we went back to the cabin. The next

239
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 2: day there was another hike and I skipped it. I

240
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,439
Speaker 2: stayed in and I just read the book that I brought.

241
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:13,040
Speaker 2: But it was Bill's plan to save me that stuck

242
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 2: in my craw because even at the age of seventeen,

243
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 2: I knew if somebody's lost in the woods, you call

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00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:25,439
Speaker 2: for rescue immediately. You don't wait until nightfall. It's so

245
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 2: much harder to find somebody in the middle of the

246
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,760
Speaker 2: wilderness in the middle of the night than it is

247
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Speaker 2: when there's sunlight. It gets cold at night in Colorado.

248
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 2: I was wearing like I was wearing a light jacket.

249
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,160
Speaker 2: You know, it was June, so I brought a light

250
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,120
Speaker 2: jacket along. But that you know, the temperature drops into

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00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,159
Speaker 2: the forties at night. If I hadn't fallen down and

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00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,840
Speaker 2: broken my neck overnight, there was a good chance that

253
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,240
Speaker 2: I could like get hypothermia, and I if my leg

254
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 2: had been broken, I could just die die of exposure.

255
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,240
Speaker 2: It could be a million different things for you go

256
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 2: for the rescue right away. And I thought, I thought,

257
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 2: that's so curious. And it didn't occur to me until later.

258
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 2: As I got older, Bill became sort of more antagonistic

259
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,159
Speaker 2: toward me, And one day I realized I was telling

260
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Speaker 2: somebody this story. I was telling my friends a story,

261
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,439
Speaker 2: and I got to the part about Bill, you know,

262
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 2: selflessly deciding to come and search for me on his own,

263
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,679
Speaker 2: not bother you know, the emergency cruise. And my friend

264
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,280
Speaker 2: was like, sounds like he saw an opportunity to kill

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00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 2: you with impunity, And I knew in that moment that

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00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 2: was the case. Bill saw an opportunity that he would

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00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:54,160
Speaker 2: never get again, which is kind of plausible deniability. If

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00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 2: he found me and my neck was broken, bully for him.

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00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 2: If he found me and my neck wasn't broken, he

270
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 2: had an opportunity to break it. He had an opportunity

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00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: to bash my head in with a rock, and it

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00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 2: seems hyperbolic to say that man was going to kill me.

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00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 2: But in the years that followed, when I brought it

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00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 2: up to my family members, long after Bill was out

275
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 2: of our lives, long after my mother left him, every

276
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 2: single one of them agrees with me. Every single one

277
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 2: of them agrees with that dude was just so excited

278
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 2: for me to die. You know, trauma tends to stay

279
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 2: in your body. I think that nobody gets away clean,

280
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 2: Nobody gets out of his life clean. Nobody gets out

281
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,400
Speaker 2: of their childhood completely unscathed, at least nobody I've met.

282
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:07,959
Speaker 2: But I think that things like having an authority figure

283
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 2: in your life who is abusive, who spends so much

284
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,719
Speaker 2: energy trying to break you down, I think that energy

285
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 2: for them as well spent. Because I came out of

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00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 2: my childhood and my adolescence a deeply anxious person, with

287
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 2: an innate fear and hatred for authority, with major issues

288
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: with my self worth, with severe depression that was frequently

289
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 2: debilitating college. I was a nervous wreckthrough. I think I

290
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 2: started with the four point zero average and four years

291
00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 2: later was kicked out because I wasn't going to classes anymore,

292
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 2: mostly because I was staying up all night with anxiety

293
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 2: and then sleeping late and then just going to the

294
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: shit job that I had to pay my rent. So

295
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 2: they booted me out of school and I came home

296
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 2: with my tail between my legs. And that was the

297
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 2: summer that the bill was finally gone from our lives.

298
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 2: He finally threw one too many coffee tables, you know,

299
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 2: slammed one too many doors, berated us one too many

300
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 2: times for my mother, and he was sort of exiled.

301
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 2: I remember the last time I saw him. I was

302
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 2: twenty two. I was pulling up to the family house

303
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 2: and his car pulled up behind me. He was grabbing

304
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: a couple of things he was told toward me. I

305
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 2: was terrified he was going to do something, but he didn't.

306
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 2: He grabbed what he'd come for and he got back

307
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: in his car and he didn't say goodbye, peeled off,

308
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: and that was the last I ever saw of him.

309
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 2: Kind of anti climactic after years and years of abuse,

310
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 2: just to have your abuser kind of drive off. You

311
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,439
Speaker 2: hear a lot more stories about the abuser finally just

312
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 2: killing the object of his abuse. But I guess in

313
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 2: that sense, I was really lucky. But it left me

314
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 2: in my twenties a wreck. And you know, I self

315
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 2: medicated by drinking, and I drank a lot, and I

316
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 2: drank a lot. All through my twenties. I had a

317
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: job in theme parks where I wrote and directed children's plays,

318
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,919
Speaker 2: and it was a fine job. I didn't have a

319
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 2: lot of responsibility, and I didn't want a lot of responsibility.

320
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: Anytime that there was room to move up in the company,

321
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 2: I avoided it like the plague. But I was also

322
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: so risk averse that I ended up just allowing myself

323
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 2: to be trapped there. I was trapped there for a decade.

324
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: I did my writing projects on the side. I had

325
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: a dream of being in film, being a writer, director, performer,

326
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 2: and through being around was able to actually kind of

327
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 2: start getting in with people that were making film in

328
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: my city. Having that creative part of my personality kind

329
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: of expanded, exploring and experimenting and just writing and finding

330
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 2: finding some purpose in that. But it didn't take away

331
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 2: the anxiety. The anxiety and the depression became more pronounced

332
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 2: as my twenties war on. I regularly drank myself into

333
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: stupors and woke up in the middle of the night

334
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 2: with panic attacks. I burned through so much money drinking.

335
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 2: I was always broke. I was always stressed out about money.

336
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: I was always scraping together for my bills. I was

337
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 2: just a miserable son of a bitch at that point.

338
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 2: And then a project that I was working on got

339
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: into Sundance. I went out to Sundance, and I was

340
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: miserable the whole time I was. My anxiety got the

341
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: best of me there. I did not sleep, I couldn't

342
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 2: eat before midnight screening, I had to throw up. I

343
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: was so anxious. It went well. You know, the film

344
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 2: got distribution. I got into the Writer's Guild and I

345
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: got my first real Hollywood writing job. And that became

346
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: the worst year of my life. The added pressure suddenly

347
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 2: of working with these creative executives at this company, which

348
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: I will not name it broke me. I stopped sleeping altogether.

349
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: I was having anxiety attacks that would last, severe panic

350
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 2: attacks that would last for thirty minutes, forty five minutes,

351
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: an hour at a time. I was waking up like

352
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: clockwork at three am and at five thirty am and

353
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 2: at seven am, and just having these immense panic attacks,

354
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 2: like waking up with adrenaline and cortisol flooding through my system.

355
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: I was so miserable that the relationship I was in

356
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 2: at the time. She finally broke up with me and said,

357
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: you have been hollowed out. There's no joy in you anymore.

358
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 2: There's just this anxiety and this rage and this negativity.

359
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 2: And I love you, but I can't watch you do

360
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 2: this to yourself. That didn't help. I reached a point

361
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: where I was smoking two backs of cigarettes a day.

362
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 2: I'd wake up in the morning riddled with anxiety and exhausted,

363
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: and the only thing that would fuel me were the

364
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 2: two pots of coffee that I would drink, and I

365
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 2: would have a sour stomach all day long from the

366
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 2: cigarettes and the coffee. I would usually eat something sometime

367
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: in the afternoon if I could stomach it. But we

368
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: would get to the end of our work days in

369
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: this little office that we kept struggling through this script

370
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: that I hated for these people that I was afraid of,

371
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: and I would immediately upon finishing, walk down the street

372
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: to the corner bar, and I would drink my calories

373
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: for the night, stumble home usually after midnight, and pass

374
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: out until my scheduled three am panic attack. So over

375
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: the course of the months that has happened. I was

376
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: losing weight. I lost thirty five pounds. My skin was gray.

377
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: I would get winded walking up half a flight of stairs.

378
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: I was throwing up with anxiety on a daily basis,

379
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 2: and I was just a horror to be around. I

380
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 2: was on a hair trigger. And even when the job

381
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 2: finished and the immediate stressers were taken away, I was

382
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 2: a live wire and I was I became suicidal at

383
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: that point. I was obsessed with death and dying, and

384
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 2: I thought, what a fucking relief it would be. What

385
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: a relief to just not have to carry a load,

386
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 2: What a relief to not be expected to produce, What

387
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: a relief to not have to be in this body

388
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 2: and then not have to deal with this broken mind.

389
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: A week after we turned in the script they called

390
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: and passed on it. I think it was eighteen months

391
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: from when we started developing to when we turned in

392
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: the script, and they were on our asses because we

393
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: were behind on deadlines the whole time. It was great.

394
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: It was like the lowest, lowest level executive called us,

395
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: like somebody's assistance assistant who broke the news to us.

396
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: They couldn't be bothered with any of their big wigs

397
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 2: talking directly to us. They were like, this was great,

398
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: We're gonna pass. Thank you. I mean a week later.

399
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: Now I'm just this ghost, this husk of a human being,

400
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: like blowing around in the wind making money. However he

401
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: can doing shitty little writing jobs, rewriting scripts and you know,

402
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: writing SEO for websites. And I was hired to write

403
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: a management training course. None of it paid well, all

404
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: of it was exhausting, and through it all, I just

405
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: like lost more and more faith in myself and my abilities.

406
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: And then one night I was sitting around at home

407
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: and I was just getting ready to just get drunk.

408
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: I had a bottle of whiskey and I was gonna

409
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: just get drunk. And a friend of mine called and

410
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 2: asked if I wanted to come swing by his place

411
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: and maybe get high. And I was like, you know what,

412
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: why the fuck not? I got no other plans, I

413
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: got nowhere to be. I'm just gonna be depressed if

414
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: I stay here, I'm going to be anxious in my apartment.

415
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: And so I went over to my buddy's house. My buddy,

416
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: my buddy Bernie. I will use his real name. I

417
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: get to his house and uh, you know, he's got

418
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: a nice little back porch and they've got they've got

419
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: the teaki torches lit, and you know, he hands me,

420
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: hands me a drink and says, so I'm going to

421
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: do an impression of him here. So I I got these. Uh,

422
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: I got these shrooms, and they're they're not great. They're

423
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: they're pretty weak. But uh, you know, if you wanna

424
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: you wanna like trip a little bit, yeah, well we can,

425
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: we can weaken trip. And I thought, well, fuck, why

426
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: the why the hell not? I was in a terrible headspace,

427
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: I mean absolutely terrible headspace. And you know what they

428
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 2: say about psychedelics, uh set setting and dosage, the headspace

429
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: you're in your mindset where you are, you know, you're

430
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: setting and then uh dosage. And these were supposed to

431
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: be really weak shrooms, but they weren't. We took them,

432
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: and we're just he had to run inside and do

433
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: some stuff. So I went and I sat in in

434
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: his living room and it was nice and quiet, and

435
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: when the trip started, I realized immediately that these were

436
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: very very wrong mushrooms. Thirty minutes in, I just I

437
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: noticed that the walls were felt like they were shifting

438
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: a little bit in and now it felt like the

439
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: walls were breathing, and I was like, oh, oh, I'm

440
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: going to be in for a night. And you know,

441
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: I tripped a quite a few times. At this point,

442
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: I enjoyed it. I'd had good trips and i'd had

443
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 2: like not great trips, but I'd never had a frankly

444
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: bad trip. But I was already so anxious and really

445
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: primed for a bad experience, so I was unsurprised when

446
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: I started having a panic attack on shrooms. I walked

447
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: outside with Bernie and we were smoking cigarettes and I

448
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: had a drink in front of me, and the tiki

449
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: torches were lit, so it's really pretty and I was

450
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: having like just nice visuals. But I was really anxious.

451
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: And Bernie, he's a talker. He loves talking about movies,

452
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: so we started talking about movies. But in the meantime,

453
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: I was going back into my head my ex girlfriend's dog.

454
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: We were still living in the apartment together. She was

455
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: out of town. I was in charge of the dog

456
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: that night, and I realized, as I started tripping hard

457
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: that I would be unable to get back to the

458
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: apartment in time to let the dog out, and that

459
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: the dog was going to pee in the kitchen, and

460
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: that she was going to feel bad about it. She

461
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 2: was such a sweet dog. When she knew she was

462
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: in trouble, she would get that look, that hang dog

463
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:54,479
Speaker 2: look that just broke your heart. She had the saddest eyes.

464
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: And that thought, the thought of my dog and how

465
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 2: I was failing my dog let me into this spiral.

466
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 2: Because it wasn't just the dog. I'd let down my parents.

467
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: I had to ask for money too many times. I'd

468
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: let down the people that I worked with. I didn't

469
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: do a good enough job writing. I wasn't a good

470
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: enough writer to hack it. There was a reason that

471
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: I wasn't getting produced. It was because I was so

472
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 2: fundamentally flawed that I could not get my shit together

473
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: enough to be even competent at any of the things

474
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: that I chose to do in my life. While I'm

475
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: going through all of this in my head, I keep

476
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 2: also going, it's the drugs. It's the drugs. This is

477
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: the drugs. They will be out of your system and

478
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: you will be fine. It's the drugs. And I would

479
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: ground myself by zoning back in to Bernie, who has

480
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: been talking this whole time without cease. He's just been talking,

481
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: and I've just been in like my own headspace is

482
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 2: my own personal hell, and I keep checking in with Bernie,

483
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: and just for a really unreasonable amount of time, he

484
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 2: has been having this conversation with himself about how Peter

485
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: Jackson's King Kong is criminally underrated, and he is telling

486
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: me the whole story of it, and he's telling me

487
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: what the critics have said, and he's telling me about

488
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 2: how Joseph Campbell would agree with him that the structure

489
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: of this film was perfect, it was the perfect mono myth,

490
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: and he's just going at this. So I would check

491
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: in with him, and I'd realize how absolutely absurd it

492
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: was that I was having this like total fucking meltdown

493
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: in my skull. But then I'd get pulled right back

494
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 2: into it, thinking about my poor fucking dog and thinking

495
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 2: about what a worthless piece of shit I was, and

496
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: how I only was capable of hurting people and bringing

497
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: anxiety into the world, and all of a sudden, I

498
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: thought about Bill, and I thought about that mountaintop, and

499
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 2: I thought about how it almost died in that one moment,

500
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 2: and how Bill had wanted to murder me, and I thought,

501
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 2: maybe he was right, Maybe he saw something in me

502
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 2: that I just haven't wanted to see. Maybe he saw

503
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: that I was worthless and I wasn't worth saving. And

504
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: in the moment, I decided, I'm going to go back

505
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 2: to that mountain and I'm going to finish the job.

506
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: And I was sure that night that I was going

507
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: to kill myself, but I had to let the fucking

508
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: dog out first. And it was around this point that

509
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: Bernie actually kind of paused in his rant and looked

510
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: at me and said, are you okay? You look like

511
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: there's something really horrible going on in your head. And

512
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: I said, I think I'm having a bad trip right now.

513
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 2: He said, okay, well, why don't we just go inside

514
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: and watch something on TV. So we went inside and

515
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: we watched some corny ass Roger Corman film, and after

516
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: like three or four hours, as it was getting on dawn,

517
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: I realized that I was safe to drive, and so

518
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: I said goodbye to Bernie and I drove back to

519
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: my shitty little apartment and I walked in the back

520
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: door into the kitchen to a lake of urine, and

521
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 2: there she was with her hang dog expression. So worried

522
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 2: that she was going to get in trouble. And I

523
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 2: knelt down and I gave her a big hug, and

524
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: I scratched her behind the ears, and I was like,

525
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: it's not your fault, baby, I'm so sorry. That was

526
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: my fault. I should let you out. And she wagged

527
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,439
Speaker 2: her tail and you know, wagged her body. She would

528
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 2: have a habit of doing that. And I walked outside

529
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: with her and she used the restroom again, and then

530
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 2: I came inside and I fed her and gave her

531
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 2: more water, and I mopped up all the urine. And

532
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: at this point, it's you know, eight or nine in

533
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: the morning, and I was like, okay, I have to sleep.

534
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: So I lay down and passed out and woke up

535
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: six hours later. And when I opened my eyes, I

536
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 2: realized immediately that I felt incredibly calm, and I realized

537
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: that all of the fucking nightmares of the night before

538
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: were gone. I felt better than I had probably in

539
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: a couple of years that morning. Then I knew I

540
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna kill myself that day. So I went on

541
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: a walk, and while I was walking, I did a

542
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: lot of thinking, and I realized it was time to

543
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: reach out and ask for help, that I needed to

544
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 2: curb my drinking, that I needed to cut to therapy,

545
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 2: I needed to get on some medication to deal with

546
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: my head. And that's when I started taking care of

547
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 2: myself for the first time in my life. I'm not

548
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 2: going to pretend like everything got better right away. It didn't.

549
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 2: I'm not going to pretend that my anxiety went away.

550
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: It did not that I was able to banish my

551
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: depression forever. I don't think that's possible. Even ten years later.

552
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 2: I recognize it as something that's never going to go away,

553
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 2: but I also recognize it as something that is manageable.

554
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 2: And through a decade of the right drugs mixed with

555
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: talk therapy, mixed with I think just the sort of

556
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: natural mellowing of aging, I find that I deal with

557
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 2: things easier Now. I still feel the anxiety, but I

558
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: am able to functionally work through it and utilize that energy.

559
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: I have a kid now. I never thought I was

560
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 2: gonna have a kid. I thought I was too selfish.

561
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: I thought I was incapable. I thought I didn't have

562
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: good examples of fatherhood and that I was too intrinsically

563
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: fucked up. And I didn't want to drag another human

564
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: being into this world just to mess them up myself.

565
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: But I just try to be for her who I

566
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: needed when I was a kid. You know. I apologize

567
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: when I'm wrong. I listened to her. I try not

568
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: to be condescending, even though she's three years old and

569
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: she is condescending enough for the both of us. I

570
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: have to stick around. I owe it to this person

571
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: that I dragged, kicking and screaming into the world to

572
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: be there to protect her, to guide her, to be

573
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,439
Speaker 2: a soft place to land, to celebrate her for who

574
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 2: she is and who she becomes, to be a dad.

575
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: And I think that's what finally finally brought me some peace.

576
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 2: Weirdly enough, the world is terrifying, but you can cut

577
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 2: out space for yourself, and you can make yourself worthy

578
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: of your own respect. And all of this obsession in

579
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: my youth of being these grandiose ideas of being this

580
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 2: famous filmmaker, this great man. I think it's more important

581
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: now to be a good person. I think that kindness

582
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: is more important than success. I think that the best

583
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: way to fight back against Bill and again, and I

584
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 2: think the sort of psychological damage that he may have

585
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: caused me is to forgive him, to forgive myself for

586
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: as much as I can, and to be strong in

587
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 2: a different way than he wanted me to be strong.

588
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 2: And that's being strong by trying to be selfless when

589
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: you can. I fail all the time. I fail all

590
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: the time at selflessness, at kindness. I struggle with it sometimes.

591
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 2: But I think that in the long run, all of

592
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 2: this has made me a better dad, a better person.

593
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 2: I quit drinking. When my kid grows up, whoever she

594
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: grows up to be, I want her to be able

595
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: to look back at her youth and say, it may

596
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: not have always been easy, but I was loved and

597
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 2: I was supported. I don't know. I think that'd be

598
00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 2: a great legacy to have.

599
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Alive Again. Joining me for a conversation

600
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: about today's story are my other Alive Again story producers

601
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski and Brent Dye, and I'm your host, Dan Bush.

602
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 3: Nick on Nick Nicky Swiss, Nick on Nick Action.

603
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: So Nick, why did you pick this story?

604
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: Why did I pick? What was it like meeting Nick? Honestly,

605
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: there is a lot of navel gazing. Guy did talk

606
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 2: about himself? Yeah? No, what drew me to this? Story.

607
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 2: Is that it shaped my entire life?

608
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: Was it was?

609
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: It?

610
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 4: Was it therapeutic for you? I mean, I'm serious. Were

611
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 4: you thinking, man, this would be kind of therapeutic for

612
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 4: me to kind of, you know, review this story.

613
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: I think publicly, I I think I thought that until

614
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: I was actually sitting in front of the microphone and

615
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: just yeah, it's really it's really really hard not to

616
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: sort of as you're going second guess yourself when you're

617
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: telling these stories, as of just as somebody who's producing

618
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: this stuff. I'm like thinking, it's really hard.

619
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: You had to have two brains.

620
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 4: You had to one be honest and tell the story

621
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 4: and then at the.

622
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: Same timeritializing my own brain like I'll probably gout this and.

623
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, well you did a magnificent job. It's a it's

624
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 4: a very very compelling story. And I was I think so.

625
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: Having like listened to a lot of these now and

626
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: told my own story, there's something that is very gratifying

627
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 2: and meaningful about telling your story and then listening to

628
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 2: all these others and realizing how much of a thread

629
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 2: there is through the human experience of you know, of

630
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:34,240
Speaker 2: just being alive and suffering, you know, and and hearing

631
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 2: people like Katie Preston who survived the Nazis, and sitting

632
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 2: down and talking to Delaney Tarr who survived the Parkland shooting,

633
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: and these these big moments in time where they are

634
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 2: these they are these people that are swept up in

635
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: this sort of like ocean of history and just drawn

636
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 2: out to see listening to those stories and listening to,

637
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: you know, stories of somebody just dealing with a very

638
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: personal experience that's only happened to them. But having all

639
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: of these people kind of come to the same conclusions

640
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 2: about humanity and about their own place in humanity and

641
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 2: their own place in the world, it's deeply gratifying. And

642
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: I think that if there's one takeaway that I really

643
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: had from telling this story is that I got to feel,

644
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 2: for a moment as if I was really deeply connected,

645
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 2: you know, spiritually if you want to say it, or

646
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 2: psychologically with all of these other people that we've spoken to.

647
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: I felt connected through all of these like disparate lived experiences,

648
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 2: many of our separate conclusions ended up being very similar

649
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: about humanity and life and what is worthy and Worthwhile

650
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: you know, Brent, you were talking earlier about family, finding

651
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: like deep meaning in that and really being able to

652
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 2: experience that. And I think that that, yeah, I think

653
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: that that's something that a lot of people came away with,

654
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 2: is more compassion for the human experience and more connection

655
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 2: to the human experience than they might have had otherwise.

656
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: I just love that all of these stories end in

657
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 3: that space, you know, in that whether somebody has a

658
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 3: an experience that's defined by some spiritual interpretation here on earth,

659
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 3: or whether it's a completely agnostic conclusion or whatever they

660
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 3: come away with, there is something very for lack of

661
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 3: a better word, spiritual about what everybody goes through. And

662
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 3: so many of these stories are are cases of people

663
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 3: dealing with cancer or a car accident or a traumatic

664
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 3: event like a fire or an earthquake, And yours was

665
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 3: kind of a spiritual death or a death of the soul,

666
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: a shedding of of self. And I'm wondering if you

667
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: could talk a little bit about that, Like it sounded

668
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 3: like when I read about you waking up after your

669
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: six hour recovery sleep after your acid trip, It's like

670
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 3: you woke up in a new set of skin, And

671
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 3: I'm wondering what caused that transformation and how did it?

672
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: How does it? How hard has it been to become

673
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 3: this new person sort of value became.

674
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 2: I mean I think that, yeah, though I don't believe

675
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 2: that the sort of trip itself, like drastically is not

676
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 2: responsible for all these large scale changes in my life

677
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: since then. It was the It was definitely the trigger point,

678
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 2: like you're talking about, and uh, you know, I think that,

679
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: Uh you know, I think that like waking up the

680
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 2: next morning and actually not feeling bad and getting up

681
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 2: and taking a walk, which was not something I'd been doing,

682
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 2: and like starting to like look for therapists and stuff

683
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: like that. I mean, waking up and in that plasticity,

684
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: I think and I think it was the just the

685
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: act of getting up and going on a walk, setting

686
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 2: an intention for the first time, uh in possibly a year,

687
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: at that point where I was like, I'm going to

688
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 2: get up, I'm going to I'm going to go for

689
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: a walk because I think that'll be good for me.

690
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,959
Speaker 2: I think that like opening in that moment of plasticity

691
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: with something healthy. Making that decision that next morning to

692
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 2: get up probably was the most optimistic but important thing

693
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 2: I did in this whole story. A huge part of your.

694
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 4: Story, Nick, is is this your battle with your pre

695
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,800
Speaker 4: designed sense of what success was for you becoming a filmmaker,

696
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 4: becoming a writer, and you got really close to that,

697
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 4: you had a studio hire you. And that's part of

698
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 4: your story too, because it's it's the mountain plus your drive,

699
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 4: you know, to to become successful in your own narrative

700
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 4: about what that meant for you as a means, I

701
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 4: guess to defeat yourself loathing and the self and your

702
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 4: the sense of like I'm not if somebody wants to

703
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 4: kill me, what's wrong with me? Well I can fix that.

704
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 4: Becoming a famous director or a filmmaker or writer. It

705
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 4: seems like that was the trend and that you know,

706
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 4: came to a head when when that was you didn't

707
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 4: find your what you would define successful wasn't what happened,

708
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 4: and then you walked away in the end. Do you

709
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 4: have this quote that I just love you said kindness

710
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 4: is more important than success, And there's this idea that

711
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 4: love and support is essential to human health and survival, yeah,

712
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 4: than self reliance, those two ideas.

713
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that a little bit?

714
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: It's just yeah, I mean I think that I think

715
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: that you know, when I when I really did start

716
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: like pursuing my career and and when when it started

717
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 2: popping a little bit. A lot of things happened in

718
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 2: that year. I mean that one of the other big

719
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 2: things that happened in that year was that I was

720
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 2: cast in a major motion picture which ended up being

721
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: a terrible movie and a failure. But I went through

722
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: an inner an audition process that I mean, I went

723
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: in front of producers like six times. I was alone

724
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 2: in front of the director the last time, justye and

725
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: I and the camera. And I mean this was like

726
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 2: two weeks of just like coming in and doing this,

727
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 2: playing this character over and over again. And I got

728
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 2: cast in this thing. And then two days later I

729
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: got a callback from my agent. This was going to

730
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 2: be like a month on set. It was gonna be

731
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 2: a shit ton of money for me. It was going

732
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 2: to be like really life changing. At the same time

733
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 2: that we were getting this job, this big writing job

734
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: for a studio. So there was this moment in my life,

735
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: literally two days in my life, where I was like,

736
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 2: holy shit, everything has fallen into place. I've had this

737
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 2: film at Sundance, I've got this studio, the studio job

738
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 2: as a writer. I've gotten cast in a major motion

739
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: picture where I'm like an actual named character with a

740
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 2: shit ton of lines and a month on set. And

741
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 2: then two days later I get a call from my

742
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: agent that basically says that, like, hey, they this was

743
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,800
Speaker 2: too close to a real life person and they rewrote

744
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 2: the character to be a woman, and I was like, well,

745
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 2: I can't play that convincingly. So that terrible year, there

746
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 2: was this, There was just this, these constant blows, and

747
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: even with the success, I was realizing how miserable I

748
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: was that like this studio job writing it sucks. It's

749
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: super stressful, like we can't seem to please them, it's

750
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: you know, and realizing that like I was never going

751
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 2: to achieve enough success to like make me feel good

752
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 2: about myself as a human being. I started focusing more

753
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 2: on you know, I got into a romantic relationship where

754
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: we ended up getting married and having a kid, and

755
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,760
Speaker 2: I think that by the time I had my daughter,

756
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: I'd allowed my career to be something that I took

757
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: seriously but didn't take to heart because I realized that

758
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 2: there was just misery. If you made that your entire

759
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: personality and your entire ego and your sense of self

760
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 2: worth relied on that, then when it went badly, you

761
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 2: were going to lose everything. When it went well, you

762
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 2: might feel great but in the moment, but it wasn't sustainable.

763
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 4: Your story is interesting because it starts off with you

764
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 4: suffered a stressful sort of home life with a stepfather who,

765
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 4: as far as is makes sense, was yeah, I wanted

766
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 4: you dead, and then perhaps hoping to prove yourself as

767
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 4: somebody worthy of life to yourself by achieving these things

768
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 4: in the industry and then coming out of it and

769
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 4: having a kid, and now you have the opportunity to not,

770
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 4: you know, say that your kid doesn't have to suffer

771
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 4: what you suffered.

772
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 2: You know, my stepfather was he he effectively was a contractor.

773
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 2: He he was a very successful contractor. He did a

774
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 2: lot of big jobs, like big corporate jobs. But nobody

775
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 2: was happy to see him when he came home. You know,

776
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 2: my mother would, I think, fawn and make him as

777
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 2: happy as she possibly could, but I think that there

778
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: was fear in that. There was absolutely fear in her

779
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: as well. And how when he was away, my siblings

780
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 2: and I were boisterous and joked a lot, and when

781
00:54:54,320 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: he was there, we were quieter, we were a lot

782
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 2: more reserved. The spirit of our household was dampened. I

783
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 2: never wanted to be that for somebody. Now, the most

784
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 2: satisfying thing in my whole life is seeing my child's

785
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: eyes light up. She runs to me, she screams, screams

786
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 2: out dead and runs to me, arms out and wants

787
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: to be picked up and held. I can be for

788
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: her what I desperately needed when I was younger and

789
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 2: didn't have.

790
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: I got to ask what happened to Bill?

791
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 2: Where is he now?

792
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 3: And why did your mom put up with this asshole

793
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 3: treating her children this way?

794
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 2: Two questions because she was a victim too. She was

795
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 2: put under the same psychological restraints as we were. And

796
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 2: I think that the alternative in her mind was being

797
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 2: out on the street. We were poor, we didn't have

798
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 2: a lot of options, and it was maybe a false

799
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: sort of choice. But for her, I think in her brain,

800
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 2: I think, and I think he helped to convince her

801
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 2: of this. It was either going to be live with

802
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: him and be provided for, or you and your kids

803
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 2: just suffer and starve.

804
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 3: And where's where's he today?

805
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 2: I have not spoken to him in twenty two, twenty

806
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 2: three years, but the last I heard, he's remarried and

807
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 2: just living on a lake. Nick.

808
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 3: I got to say, you have really bad luck with hikes,

809
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 3: because the first time I met you was on a

810
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 3: day march out in near Los Angeles. Dan, what was

811
00:56:58,440 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 3: that trail?

812
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 2: It was Solstice Canyon.

813
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 3: I am never going any with you again.

814
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 2: Man. We yeah, dude, I we didn't even have enough

815
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 2: We did not have enough water to be walking around

816
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: in the fucking height.

817
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 4: I think.

818
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 3: I think if we would have been lost for four hours,

819
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 3: Dan would have been like, did you almost die?

820
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:19,479
Speaker 2: Good?

821
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: Good?

822
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 2: Excellent.

823
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: Next time on Alive again, we heard from Scott Jenkins,

824
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: whose steady descent into a drug fueled madness was only

825
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: stopped when his small town rallied to help change his

826
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: life's direction.

827
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 5: All I remember is waking up by myself thrashing all

828
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 5: around in the bathtub. There's no reasoning with it. You

829
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 5: can pray about it, and you can meditate. I remember

830
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 5: thinking that, like, if I continue on this line of thought,

831
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 5: I'm going to go insane, and like I'm not gonna

832
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 5: come back from it.

833
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: Our story producers are Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die,

834
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakoski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music by Ben Lovett. Additional

835
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick

836
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young. Special thanks to Alexander Williams for additional

837
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: production support. Our studio engineers are Rima L. K Ali

838
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: and Nomes Griffin. Today's episode was edited by Mike w Anderson,

839
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: mixing by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host,

840
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: Dan Bush. Special thanks to Nick for sharing a story.

841
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: Alive Again is a production of iHeart Radio and Psychopia Pictures.

842
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 2: If you have a.

843
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: Transformative near death experience to share, we'd love to hear

844
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: your story. Please email us at Alive Again Project at

845
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

846
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 4: That's a l I v e A g A I

847
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 4: N p R O j E C T at gmail

848
00:58:53,000 --> 00:59:14,919
Speaker 4: dot com.