1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: We want to add the voice now of Howard Buffett, 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: the founder and CEO of the Howard G. Buffett Foundation, 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: which has invested more than five hundred million dollars in 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: Ukraine since Russia's invasion. Mister Buffett, welcome to Bloomberg. You're 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: just back from your tenth visit I believe to Ukraine 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: and we know that the bombing continues. We know it 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: was a violent weekend as Russia continues to lean in 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: this winter. What is life like on the ground. 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: It's really tough. You know. When I left there January second, 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 2: Russia had started a real serious bombing campaign which they've 11 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: not ended yet. You're seeing more civilians dying, including children. 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 2: You know, this is part of the Russian strategy, which 13 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: is to wear people down to create fatigue, and of 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: course that will work to some degree, but there are 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: still there's still an incredible commitment by the Ukrainian people 16 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: and the soldiers on the front line. They are you know, 17 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: they're not giving up. They understand they're fighting for their freedom, 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: they're fighting for their life, they're fighting for democracy and 19 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: they know they can't give up. 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 3: Well, they may not give up, but there is a question, Howard, 21 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 3: as We were just discussing with Cliff whether or not 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 3: the US is going to give up on this cause, 23 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 3: at least in terms of providing monetary and military funding. 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 3: What happens in Ukraine. If the US has given already 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 3: all it's going to. 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: Give, well it may be that the US stops temporarily. 27 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is if Ukraine falls, 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: they'll be on the doorstep of many other European countries. 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: Putin's very clever and he asks patients, so it doesn't 30 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: mean they'll move right away, but at some point he's 31 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: going to make additional moves. He said he's going to 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: do it, as generals have said he's going to do it. 33 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: You look at Putin's history, you have to believe he's 34 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: going to do it. So at that point NATO will 35 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: get engaged. For people who say that we can step 36 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 2: out of NATO are very unreally realistic about our future. 37 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: I mean, Ukraine is fighting not just the second most 38 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: powerful military in the world, but they're also fighting really 39 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: by proxy, Iran in North Korea. So Ukraine is fighting 40 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: three of our largest enemies at this point in time. 41 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: And if that isn't enough to get our attention and 42 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 2: keep our attention. We will do it without choice when 43 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: they get to your doorstep, and we will be fighting 44 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 2: as part of Ukraine. And if we withdraw from Ukraine, 45 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 2: we have no allies and no friends in the world 46 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 2: when we come to having to fight or deal with 47 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 2: another conflict. 48 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: Howard, I know you've focused a lot of your work 49 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: on food insecurity around the globe and including Ukraine. You 50 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: can't have one without the other, as we learned in 51 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: the initial invasion by Russia, the inflation that we saw 52 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: and the food shortages that other parts of the world experienced. 53 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: Cliff Cupchin just spelled out great worries about what could 54 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: take place in the Black Sea. And I wonder how 55 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: concerned you are, how real the threat is against the food. 56 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: Supply chain in Ukraine were that to happen. Well, it's 57 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: been you know, significantly affected now, I mean I would 58 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: say that you know, Ukraine is down by fifty percent 59 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: of their production. They have twenty percent of their country, 60 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 2: almost twenty percent of their country occupied by Russia, which 61 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: has a large part of their agricultural production areas. And 62 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: so I don't know how much worse it gets. But 63 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: if they escalate, if Russia escalates in the Black Sea. 64 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: It's hard to tell what happens, but it all comes 65 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: down to how the US responds in europe response. And 66 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: I think you know, if you start listening to you know, 67 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: Hungary is an outlier, but if you start listening to 68 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: the other foreign ministers and prime ministers in most European countries, 69 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: they understand how serious this is and how significant it 70 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: can be for them, and they need the United States 71 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: as an ally, and we're going to need them in 72 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 2: the future. So we are in this one way or 73 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: the other. 74 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: Well, something you hear often, Howard in Congress, from those 75 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: who are more hesitant or resistant to the idea of 76 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 3: providing further aid to Ukraine is this idea of accountability, 77 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 3: of making sure the funds are used appropriately as intended. 78 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 3: In your work there, including with the funds you are providing, 79 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 3: have you seen evidence that perhaps there is misuse happening. 80 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 2: No, And you know a lot of people like to 81 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 2: use that argument, and there's been almost no credible proof 82 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 2: of how it's been misused. Of course, in a war, 83 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: you're always going to have some things get used, you know, inappropriately. 84 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: But you know the most important thing, this narrative just 85 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 2: never gets repeated. Is you know, if you go back 86 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: to b. Lincoln's December twentieth, I think it was a 87 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 2: press conference just you know, not even a month ago. 88 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 2: He made the point that ninety percent of all of 89 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: the military system we're providing is in the United States. 90 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 2: What we're doing is supporting thousands of jobs across thirty 91 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: one states in this country in the defense industry, and 92 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: so none of that money is misappropriate. It's all here 93 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: in the United States. Some money is going, of course 94 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: for other purposes. But I can tell you that the 95 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 2: people that we deal with, the ministers we deal with, 96 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 2: you know, they are stand up people. They are trying 97 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 2: to do the best job that they can do in 98 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 2: an incredibly difficult situation. I trust the Ukrainian people. Is 99 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: there a problem with corruption. Of course, there's a problem 100 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: with corruption in the country, and the president's doing his 101 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 2: best to address it at a very difficult time. So 102 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 2: I have confidence that the support of the United States 103 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: gives the Ukraine the far majority. Almost all of it 104 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 2: is going where it's supposed to go and doing what 105 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: it's supposed to do. You can't have one hundred percent 106 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 2: when you're fighting a war. It is not going to 107 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: be perfect. 108 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: The people of Iowa are going to start voting a 109 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: week from to day. Howard is we begin the process 110 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: of selecting a Republican nominee. A lot of folks think 111 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: already that will be Donald Trump. What would that mean 112 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: for this entire conversation moving forward. 113 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 2: Well, it's it's it's a little concerning if he does 114 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: everything that he says he's going to do. I mean, 115 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: you know, he says he can end the war in 116 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 2: twenty four hours. I'm not sure he's never defined what 117 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: that means, and it can make different things. But I 118 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: don't know how you in the warren twenty four hours 119 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 2: in have Ukraine come out in a very good position. 120 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: He has talked about withdrawing from NATO. You know, I 121 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: sometimes a lot a lot of politicians say things that 122 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 2: they aren't going to do, so I can't judge that. 123 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: But if we withdraw from NATO, we'll have some significant 124 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: issues in the near future when we need allies and 125 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: we need friends, we won't have any. So I think, 126 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: you know, I would I would defer to see what 127 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: he actually does do, because you know, actions speak louder 128 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: than words. But it's it's it's an in terms of Ukraine. 129 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 3: All right, Howard, we have to leave it there, but 130 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining us this evening. That's 131 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: Howard Buffett of the Howard Buffett Foundation.