WEBVTT - [From the Archives] Hell and Gone Murder Line: Shannon Hercutt 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:51.961 School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.361 case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 0:00:55.401 --> 0:00:58.761 witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.961 be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 0:01:03.001 --> 0:01:06.160 from family and community members, their statements should not be 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.961 considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 0:01:10.041 --> 0:01:14.041 inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.160 presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 0:01:17.961 --> 0:01:20.840 Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 0:01:21.041 --> 0:01:23.601 that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 0:01:24.121 --> 0:01:27.121 is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 0:01:28.601 --> 0:01:31.361 On August third, two thousand and nine, just before midnight, 0:01:32.041 --> 0:01:35.281 an on Star satellite service got a notification of an 0:01:35.281 --> 0:01:39.801 emergency from inside a Cadillac Escalae that had crashed. The 0:01:39.881 --> 0:01:42.881 vehicle had plunged off a cliff just off Walker Trail 0:01:42.961 --> 0:01:46.921 in Severe count Tennessee. The on Star service called nine 0:01:46.961 --> 0:01:50.281 one one and police responded to the scene. They found 0:01:50.281 --> 0:01:52.721 a bent guard rail. The car was in the middle 0:01:52.721 --> 0:01:54.880 of the woods, so it was hard to get down 0:01:54.921 --> 0:01:58.040 to the crash scene. Deputies had to repel to the 0:01:58.081 --> 0:02:00.880 bottom of a one hundred and twenty five foot drop off. 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.161 When they got down there, they saw the black two 0:02:04.201 --> 0:02:09.121 thousand and seven Cadillac Escalade. Inside the twisted metal wreckage 0:02:09.121 --> 0:02:12.041 of that car, they found the body of forty year 0:02:12.081 --> 0:02:16.561 old Shannon her Cut. At first, the Tennessee Highway Patrol 0:02:16.641 --> 0:02:19.601 said Shannon had died in a car accident. It seemed 0:02:19.641 --> 0:02:23.201 like a tragic fatality, but nothing more than that. But 0:02:23.281 --> 0:02:26.520 a few days later, Shannon Hercut's manner of death was 0:02:26.641 --> 0:02:30.601 changed to homicide. Local authorities said someone had beaten her 0:02:30.601 --> 0:02:33.641 to death, then put her inside the car to stage 0:02:33.641 --> 0:02:38.201 the accident. Shannon was well known. She was friendly and outgoing, 0:02:38.361 --> 0:02:42.401 a successful and well liked local businesswoman, but according to 0:02:42.441 --> 0:02:45.121 her own family, she was also someone who had a 0:02:45.161 --> 0:02:49.120 lot of secrets. There had been family feuds and legal 0:02:49.161 --> 0:02:53.721 battles related to her business and possibly some people suggested, 0:02:54.281 --> 0:02:58.361 maybe even a secret lover. Now, over the years, this 0:02:58.561 --> 0:03:01.401 case has been covered multiple times. It's been covered by 0:03:01.401 --> 0:03:05.201 local media, national media, and even doctor Phil And every 0:03:05.321 --> 0:03:08.641 time I hear about this story, the same narrative has 0:03:08.681 --> 0:03:11.800 been put forward. But as you all know, I want 0:03:11.801 --> 0:03:13.721 to go behind the scenes and see what we can 0:03:13.761 --> 0:03:17.881 do to take this case forward who killed Shannon Hercut. 0:03:19.801 --> 0:03:23.241 I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years making my 0:03:23.321 --> 0:03:27.001 true crime podcast, Telling Gone, I've learned there's no such 0:03:27.081 --> 0:03:30.841 thing as a small town where murder never happens. I've 0:03:30.881 --> 0:03:34.641 received hundreds of messages from people all around the country 0:03:34.681 --> 0:03:37.361 asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, 0:03:37.761 --> 0:03:41.641 their families, and their communities. And now they have a 0:03:41.681 --> 0:03:44.721 new way to reach out. You have a case you'd 0:03:44.721 --> 0:03:47.241 like me and my team to look into, you can 0:03:47.281 --> 0:03:49.641 reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line 0:03:50.001 --> 0:03:53.641 at six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 0:03:54.481 --> 0:03:58.281 That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 0:03:59.401 --> 0:04:51.200 This is Helen Gone Murder Line. I was contacted about 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.281 the Shannon her Cut case by listener a while back. 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.760 As always, we start with victimology. We want to know 0:04:58.801 --> 0:05:01.201 who Shannon was and what was going on in her 0:05:01.241 --> 0:05:05.681 life in the time period immediately before she died. Shannon 0:05:05.761 --> 0:05:09.361 her Cut was born in Severeville, Tennessee, on May twenty second, 0:05:09.481 --> 0:05:12.441 nineteen sixty nine. This is an area that gets a 0:05:12.441 --> 0:05:15.161 lot of tourists. It's in the Great Smoky Mountains and 0:05:15.241 --> 0:05:18.841 it's near Dollywood. Dolly Parton's theme park in Pigeon Forge. 0:05:19.721 --> 0:05:22.321 Shannon's mom, Patricia, ran a general store that she opened 0:05:22.401 --> 0:05:26.121 up in the early nineties. It was called Anti Bellam's. Eventually, 0:05:26.481 --> 0:05:28.961 Shannon went out on her own. She opened up a 0:05:29.001 --> 0:05:32.361 real estate and rental business, also using the family business name. 0:05:33.281 --> 0:05:37.080 Shannon's business was called Anti Bellum's Realty and Rentals. It 0:05:37.201 --> 0:05:40.921 was in Pigeon Forge, near where she grew up. Opening 0:05:40.961 --> 0:05:43.880 this business was a very smart mood because over the 0:05:43.721 --> 0:05:47.681 the years the demand for rental properties skyrocketed in that area, 0:05:47.761 --> 0:05:50.601 and Shannon did very well for herself. She was in 0:05:50.721 --> 0:05:53.241 charge of renting out around one hundred and thirty cabins. 0:05:53.801 --> 0:05:56.921 She also oversaw other projects, including the opening of a 0:05:56.921 --> 0:06:01.321 local playground called Mount Ton of Fun. In media reports, 0:06:01.481 --> 0:06:05.521 Shannon is described as single and happy. She never married 0:06:05.521 --> 0:06:08.161 and didn't have any children, but she had a lot 0:06:08.161 --> 0:06:10.481 of friends and was active in her town and in 0:06:10.521 --> 0:06:14.521 her church. One of her relatives in an interview, made 0:06:14.521 --> 0:06:19.320 a comment about Shannon being strong willed, which can sometimes 0:06:19.361 --> 0:06:22.481 mean if someone's very opinionated, perhaps that could point to 0:06:22.521 --> 0:06:25.241 them getting into conflict with people. But a lot of 0:06:25.241 --> 0:06:27.761 people said that Shannon was generally very well liked at 0:06:27.801 --> 0:06:29.841 work and that the people who worked for her were 0:06:29.961 --> 0:06:33.881 very loyal to her. But her life wasn't perfect. At 0:06:33.921 --> 0:06:36.281 the time of her death in two thousand and nine, 0:06:36.321 --> 0:06:40.641 Shannon was dealing with difficult relationships with several different people. 0:06:41.761 --> 0:06:45.841 As we often see, big success sometimes brings business rivals 0:06:46.041 --> 0:06:49.801 or threats of lawsuits and people wanting money. One of 0:06:49.841 --> 0:06:53.281 the people Shannon was feuding with was her own father, Ted. 0:06:53.361 --> 0:06:53.880 Her cut. 0:06:55.241 --> 0:06:55.601 Again. 0:06:55.961 --> 0:06:58.880 Over the years, everything that I've read about this case 0:06:59.481 --> 0:07:02.801 has seemed to have the same narrative that a lot 0:07:02.841 --> 0:07:06.001 of people suspect Ted, and that he totally denies that 0:07:06.041 --> 0:07:10.041 he's involved in his daughter's death. So now we fast 0:07:10.081 --> 0:07:12.361 forward to August third, two thousand and nine. In the 0:07:12.441 --> 0:07:17.041 hours immediately following that car crash. On that day, Ted 0:07:17.121 --> 0:07:20.521 Hircut had an alibi. At the time of Shannon's murder, 0:07:20.881 --> 0:07:23.561 he was almost four hundred miles away in Myrtle Beach, 0:07:23.601 --> 0:07:28.401 South Carolina with his wife, Shannon's stepmother, Anita. His other daughter, 0:07:28.481 --> 0:07:32.321 Shannon's sister, Penny Stevens, was also nearby vacationing with her 0:07:32.321 --> 0:07:37.201 young daughter. Later on, when Ted and Penny appeared on 0:07:37.281 --> 0:07:40.881 Doctor Phil in what was a very emotional and memorable episode. 0:07:41.561 --> 0:07:44.481 Ted told doctor Phil that he got a call from 0:07:44.521 --> 0:07:47.161 his former son in law, a guy named Jerry Stevens, 0:07:47.161 --> 0:07:49.401 who used to be married to Penny and who apparently 0:07:49.441 --> 0:07:53.321 worked in law enforcement. Ted said Jerry called him to 0:07:53.361 --> 0:07:56.921 break the news that Shannon's body had been found. Penny 0:07:56.961 --> 0:07:58.801 got the news on the same day, and she later 0:07:58.881 --> 0:08:01.761 told reporters that when she heard what happened to her sister, 0:08:01.881 --> 0:08:04.641 she immediately thought that this could not have been an accident. 0:08:05.681 --> 0:08:08.681 Ted said he also immediately suspected this had not been 0:08:08.721 --> 0:08:12.401 a traffic accident. There were some details that just seemed off, 0:08:12.481 --> 0:08:14.641 like the fact that Shannon was not wearing her seat 0:08:14.641 --> 0:08:18.241 belt when the car crashed. Apparently she always made a 0:08:18.241 --> 0:08:21.721 point of wearing her seat belt. Her family also wondered 0:08:21.801 --> 0:08:24.921 why she would be driving in that area alone late 0:08:24.921 --> 0:08:26.881 at night, which was definitely not a part of her 0:08:26.921 --> 0:08:32.001 regular routine. But most crucially, when the car was found, 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:36.800 both the driver's side and passenger window were down. Both 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.881 Ted and Penny, his daughter, agreed Shannon would never have 0:08:40.961 --> 0:08:44.680 those windows down because she was obsessed about keeping her 0:08:44.761 --> 0:08:49.481 hair perfect, and obviously, in that high humidity, having both 0:08:49.521 --> 0:08:51.841 windows down with the wind blowing in her hair was 0:08:51.961 --> 0:08:54.321 just not something that they said Shannon would ever do. 0:08:54.961 --> 0:08:56.881 If she did have to go out after dark, she 0:08:56.881 --> 0:08:58.720 would have those windows up and she would have the 0:08:58.761 --> 0:09:04.961 ac blasting. Police ruled Shannon's death an accident and they 0:09:05.001 --> 0:09:09.560 didn't want to do an autopsy, but Ted insisted. He 0:09:09.601 --> 0:09:12.361 refused to sign a form allowing Shannon to be buried. 0:09:13.321 --> 0:09:15.361 He also called a friend of his, a guy named 0:09:15.401 --> 0:09:19.040 Jerry Grubbs now. Jerry was a retired National Park Service 0:09:19.121 --> 0:09:21.641 ranger who also worked in law enforcement and later became 0:09:21.681 --> 0:09:26.081 a private investigator. Jerry said that he found physical evidence 0:09:26.081 --> 0:09:29.200 at that crime scene, physical evidence he said, was overlooked 0:09:29.561 --> 0:09:32.321 both by the Sheriff's office and the Tennessee Highway Patrol. 0:09:33.681 --> 0:09:37.481 In a video that Jerry posted on YouTube, he films 0:09:37.521 --> 0:09:40.321 the area where the car wrecked and says, based on 0:09:40.401 --> 0:09:43.321 how that car was found, he thinks that it basically 0:09:43.401 --> 0:09:46.560 did a straight drop. He said that if the car 0:09:46.601 --> 0:09:49.441 had been traveling at any rate of speed, it would 0:09:49.481 --> 0:09:51.561 have been airborne and it would have been found way 0:09:51.601 --> 0:09:55.081 deeper in the forest. There was also no real damage 0:09:55.081 --> 0:09:57.401 to the windshield and no skid marks from the tire 0:09:57.401 --> 0:10:01.041 tracks of the scene, which presumably meant that no one 0:10:01.161 --> 0:10:04.801 slammed on the brakes to try to avoid an accident. Later, 0:10:04.881 --> 0:10:06.961 a team went in and they found out through looking 0:10:07.001 --> 0:10:10.401 at the car's electrical system that Shannon had only been 0:10:10.401 --> 0:10:13.841 traveling at seven miles per hour before the crash. She 0:10:13.921 --> 0:10:16.121 wasn't even going fast enough for her air bags to 0:10:16.121 --> 0:10:20.921 deploy Ted told reporters that Shannon's injuries did not appear 0:10:20.961 --> 0:10:23.961 to have come from the car crash. He said at 0:10:23.961 --> 0:10:27.081 the time quote the paramedics said her head had a 0:10:27.121 --> 0:10:29.521 gash in it the size of a grapefruit, and there 0:10:29.561 --> 0:10:31.801 was nothing inside the car that could have made that 0:10:31.921 --> 0:10:37.361 gash end quote. At that point, the Sheriff's office investigators 0:10:37.441 --> 0:10:41.280 finally agreed to an autopsy, and when that autopsy came back, 0:10:41.761 --> 0:10:45.001 it became clear that Shannon's injury had not happened in 0:10:45.001 --> 0:10:49.361 the car accident. Police said someone beat her to death 0:10:49.441 --> 0:10:52.721 at her home, put her inside that car, and pushed 0:10:52.721 --> 0:10:56.040 her over that hill. Cause of death was blunt forced 0:10:56.081 --> 0:10:59.601 trauma to Shannon's head, and the manner of death was 0:10:59.721 --> 0:11:10.560 changed from accident to homicide. Three days after Shannon's body 0:11:10.641 --> 0:11:13.241 was found, police finally went to her house to look 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.961 around Shannon's sister Penny went to her house too. She 0:11:18.121 --> 0:11:20.241 was there to pick out an outfit for her sister 0:11:20.321 --> 0:11:23.961 to be buried in. She later told Knox News that 0:11:24.041 --> 0:11:27.041 when she arrived to that house, she saw that some 0:11:27.121 --> 0:11:29.601 things in her sister's residence seemed to be out of place. 0:11:30.481 --> 0:11:32.921 She saw a baseball bat in the back of Shannon's 0:11:32.921 --> 0:11:36.160 work truck. She also saw what appeared to be blood 0:11:36.401 --> 0:11:39.680 on the refrigerator that was in Shannon's garage, right by 0:11:39.721 --> 0:11:43.961 the handle. She told the news station quote, I had 0:11:44.001 --> 0:11:47.481 noticed two wine cooler type bottles on the floor busted 0:11:47.521 --> 0:11:51.601 and that was it. There were also no signs of 0:11:51.681 --> 0:11:55.201 forced entry. Police had a few theories at this point, 0:11:55.241 --> 0:11:58.201 but no real leads. They considered the possibility that it 0:11:58.201 --> 0:12:00.841 could have been an angry client of Shannon's, someone that 0:12:00.881 --> 0:12:04.201 she had a business to spete with, but Penny made 0:12:04.241 --> 0:12:07.201 it clear that she had another prime suspect in mind 0:12:07.201 --> 0:12:12.601 for Shannon's murder, their father, Ted har Cut. So let's 0:12:12.601 --> 0:12:16.401 go back and look at the family relationships. Penny and 0:12:16.481 --> 0:12:19.281 Ted appeared on The Doctor Phil's show in twenty fifteen, 0:12:19.361 --> 0:12:23.401 and on that show, it's immediately clear that there is 0:12:23.441 --> 0:12:27.841 a lot of animosity between Ted and Penny. She told 0:12:27.841 --> 0:12:32.040 doctor phil that since she was very young, her father 0:12:32.121 --> 0:12:35.761 had been behaving in extremely disturbing ways. She said he'd 0:12:35.801 --> 0:12:39.481 been emotionally abusive and that he was greedy and a 0:12:39.561 --> 0:12:43.201 pathological liar. And when Ted HRCUT came out and tried 0:12:43.201 --> 0:12:46.161 to hug his daughter on stage, she refused to touch 0:12:46.241 --> 0:12:49.160 him or have anything to do with him. Reading between 0:12:49.241 --> 0:12:53.241 the lines, it seems like the bad blood between Ted 0:12:53.441 --> 0:12:58.721 and Shannon got worse after Penny and Shannon's mother, Patricia 0:12:58.761 --> 0:13:02.721 passed away. That happened in two thousand and eight. Patricia 0:13:02.801 --> 0:13:06.281 died after a long battle with cancer. She had been 0:13:06.321 --> 0:13:11.721 divorced from Ted for several years by then. After Patricia's death, 0:13:12.561 --> 0:13:15.081 Shannon inherited a piece of land from her, a piece 0:13:15.121 --> 0:13:18.321 of land that was apparently worth about a million dollars. 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.560 Shannon and Ted got into a legal battle for that land. 0:13:23.241 --> 0:13:26.841 They started fighting after Patricia's death, so about a year 0:13:26.881 --> 0:13:30.521 before Shannon was murdered. By the time of Shannon's death, 0:13:30.601 --> 0:13:33.401 Ted admitted that he and his daughter were estranged. They 0:13:33.441 --> 0:13:37.561 were not talking at all, They were only communicating through lawyers. 0:13:38.161 --> 0:13:40.920 So what was really going on? When Shannon her cuts 0:13:40.961 --> 0:13:43.721 will in two thousand and three, Shannon made a way 0:13:43.801 --> 0:13:46.121 will and she left twenty nine percent of her state 0:13:46.161 --> 0:13:48.761 to her father Ted. But in two thousand and six, 0:13:49.161 --> 0:13:52.601 Shannon made another will, and in that will she specifically 0:13:52.641 --> 0:13:55.721 mentioned that it was her wish that neither Ted nor 0:13:55.761 --> 0:13:59.401 his wife would inherit anything from her. Now, Penny claimed 0:13:59.441 --> 0:14:02.241 Ted was furious about that, about the fact that Shannon 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.920 had cut him out of the will, but Ted has 0:14:05.001 --> 0:14:09.441 always totally denied that. Penny has always said that her 0:14:09.441 --> 0:14:14.641 father's motive in killing Shannon was money. But who really 0:14:14.681 --> 0:14:17.801 gained from Shannon's death? Because we know that Ted didn't 0:14:17.801 --> 0:14:23.001 inherit anything. Nod explain this. Penny said that Ted didn't 0:14:23.081 --> 0:14:25.361 realize Shannon had changed her will, so he would have 0:14:25.401 --> 0:14:28.761 thought that he might inherit something from her. Ted said 0:14:28.841 --> 0:14:31.241 he never expected anything from his daughter's will and that 0:14:31.281 --> 0:14:34.761 he never needed any money from her. On Doctor Phil 0:14:35.001 --> 0:14:38.841 Ted looked genuinely shocked when Penny stated bluntly she believed 0:14:38.881 --> 0:14:41.001 he had hired a hip man to kill her sister. 0:14:42.241 --> 0:14:44.801 I believe that Penny is since I think she is 0:14:44.921 --> 0:14:47.281 convinced that her dad had something to do with Shannon's 0:14:47.321 --> 0:14:51.241 death and that she was afraid of him, and if 0:14:51.281 --> 0:14:55.241 you watch their interactions, it's clear, in my opinion, that 0:14:55.281 --> 0:14:59.281 there's something about Ted that seems off. At certain moments, 0:14:59.321 --> 0:15:02.801 he appears to be unhinged. I also think it's possible 0:15:02.801 --> 0:15:05.441 that he's lying about a few things, like the weird 0:15:05.521 --> 0:15:08.401 vandalism of Shannon's business that happened back in November of 0:15:08.441 --> 0:15:11.001 two thousand and nine, just a few months after Shannon's murder. 0:15:11.961 --> 0:15:17.041 On November twentieth, Pigeon Force police responded to shots fired 0:15:17.201 --> 0:15:21.441 at Shannon's business, Annie Bellham's realty in Nightly Rentals. Someone 0:15:21.481 --> 0:15:24.001 had shown up there and started firing shots into the 0:15:24.001 --> 0:15:28.121 front door. They fired off eight rounds in all. Penny 0:15:28.161 --> 0:15:31.241 said her father had confessed to her that he was 0:15:31.281 --> 0:15:34.881 the one who shot up the business, and when Doctor 0:15:34.921 --> 0:15:38.441 Phil asked Ted about this, he kind of sidesteps the question. 0:15:39.241 --> 0:15:42.801 It does seem like he could be lying about vandalizing 0:15:42.841 --> 0:15:47.881 that business. The Doctor Phil's show had a lot more 0:15:47.961 --> 0:15:51.881 family drama on. They also had Ted's third wife, Jan, 0:15:52.281 --> 0:15:55.601 who he married in the summer of twenty fourteen. After 0:15:55.641 --> 0:15:58.441 just three weeks of marriage, Ted got in annulment and 0:15:58.441 --> 0:16:02.361 the marriage fell apart. Jan told Doctor Phil that Ted 0:16:02.481 --> 0:16:06.161 had what she called a dark side. Now, I've been 0:16:06.281 --> 0:16:09.121 on Doctor Phil before talking about the Ebbie Stepec case, 0:16:09.201 --> 0:16:11.601 and so I actually know a lot about how this 0:16:11.641 --> 0:16:15.801 process works. I spent several weeks with the producers doing 0:16:15.841 --> 0:16:18.761 in depth research and giving them information about what was 0:16:18.801 --> 0:16:20.841 going on with the case, and I knew this in 0:16:20.881 --> 0:16:23.721 advance of the information that I gave them. They only 0:16:23.801 --> 0:16:26.601 aired a tiny portion of it. They do that for 0:16:26.641 --> 0:16:28.961 a lot of reasons. First of all, there's very limited 0:16:29.001 --> 0:16:31.001 time to present the case, so you can't go too 0:16:31.001 --> 0:16:34.361 deep into the woods. But also, and this is not 0:16:34.481 --> 0:16:38.321 an insult to TV producers, but their primary purpose is 0:16:38.441 --> 0:16:42.201 presenting the story and making good TV. It's not really 0:16:42.281 --> 0:16:46.881 solving a case. So instead of going deeper into suspects, 0:16:47.481 --> 0:16:49.881 what we got on Doctor Phil was more family drama. 0:16:50.641 --> 0:16:53.281 Because then Ted came on again and he said Jan 0:16:53.361 --> 0:16:56.201 had a criminal history and that she had stolen four 0:16:56.281 --> 0:16:59.601 hundred dollars from him and stolen his credit cards. There's 0:16:59.641 --> 0:17:01.681 a lot more family drama that plays out on the 0:17:01.681 --> 0:17:04.360 show that I'm not going to get into. But at 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.281 the end of the episode, my takeaway was that Doctor 0:17:07.281 --> 0:17:09.960 Phil seemed to come to basically the same conclusion that 0:17:10.041 --> 0:17:14.041 I did. He said Ted may be an asshole, but 0:17:14.120 --> 0:17:16.201 that doesn't mean he's a killer or that he hired 0:17:16.241 --> 0:17:19.360 a hitman. He kept saying the same question I was asking, 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.400 which is what's the actual evidence that at that moment 0:17:23.681 --> 0:17:25.960 in two thousand and nine, Ted would have had a 0:17:26.041 --> 0:17:30.041 motive to kill his daughter. With all of these cases, 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.200 when you have so many crazy rumors flying around, and 0:17:33.321 --> 0:17:37.680 especially when there are complicated family dynamics and accusations, I 0:17:37.761 --> 0:17:41.201 always talk about how important it is to filter out 0:17:41.201 --> 0:17:44.880 what I call the noise of the case, and while 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:46.840 we want to keep an open mind and not ignore 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.921 any possibilities, I think that the Shannon her Cut case 0:17:50.041 --> 0:17:52.880 is a great example of this. We need to filter 0:17:53.041 --> 0:17:55.600 out all of the family drama and focus on the 0:17:55.601 --> 0:17:59.080 facts of the case. As we've said several times over 0:17:59.161 --> 0:18:02.241 the years, being a creep is not illegal and it 0:18:02.281 --> 0:18:06.120 doesn't make you a killer. Ted has never been charged 0:18:06.121 --> 0:18:09.841 in connection with Shannon's murder. He's always denied having anything 0:18:09.881 --> 0:18:13.481 to do with it. I honestly think that at this 0:18:13.601 --> 0:18:15.920 point the evidence points away from him, and there are 0:18:15.921 --> 0:18:19.080 a few reasons why. First of all, Ted was one 0:18:19.121 --> 0:18:22.001 of the first people to demand that Shannon's body be 0:18:22.001 --> 0:18:24.961 taken in for an autopsy. He got that expert Jerry 0:18:25.001 --> 0:18:27.761 Grubbs to go to the scene. He told anyone who 0:18:27.761 --> 0:18:29.920 would listen over the years that his daughter's death was 0:18:30.001 --> 0:18:33.081 not an accident, which does not seem like the actions 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.281 of a person who killed his daughter. If Ted had 0:18:36.361 --> 0:18:40.120 been involved in Shannon's death, it seems like the last 0:18:40.121 --> 0:18:42.401 thing he would have done, especially after the death had 0:18:42.481 --> 0:18:44.880 already been ruled naxtident and she was getting ready to 0:18:44.921 --> 0:18:48.441 be buried, is to go public and demand that police 0:18:48.481 --> 0:18:53.561 investigate the possibility of murder. Ted died in twenty seventeen, 0:18:54.361 --> 0:18:57.281 so if Ted was involved, whatever secrets he had would 0:18:57.281 --> 0:19:02.681 have died with him. Even now, police say they've never 0:19:02.761 --> 0:19:07.121 found any connection between Ted and Shannon's murder. If that's 0:19:07.161 --> 0:19:10.121 the case, that means that Shannon's killer is still out there. 0:19:10.761 --> 0:19:13.201 And though police have been pretty tight lipped about the 0:19:13.241 --> 0:19:17.521 investigation so far, one investigator has said they believe the 0:19:17.561 --> 0:19:21.640 evidence points to someone outside the family, but someone who 0:19:21.721 --> 0:19:25.561 knew Shannon. He also said they believe they know the 0:19:25.641 --> 0:19:30.001 killer's motive. He made this kind of cryptic comment. He said, 0:19:30.801 --> 0:19:33.241 if I told you what it was, it'd be obvious 0:19:33.281 --> 0:19:37.281 who I was talking about. So to sum up, I 0:19:37.321 --> 0:19:40.241 don't think that the evidence points to Ted, and at 0:19:40.321 --> 0:19:45.361 least one of the investigators on the case agrees. Let's 0:19:45.441 --> 0:19:47.840 move away from the family drama between Ted and his 0:19:47.921 --> 0:19:50.840 daughter Penny and back to what we know, Back to 0:19:50.881 --> 0:19:55.281 the crime scene, with the evidence. We know where the 0:19:55.321 --> 0:19:59.001 car crashed. We know that this was a staged crime scene. 0:19:59.121 --> 0:20:02.481 The real crime scene took place at Shannon's house, probably 0:20:02.521 --> 0:20:06.761 in her garage. Then the killer or killers tried to 0:20:06.761 --> 0:20:09.921 make it look like a car accident. The real crime 0:20:09.961 --> 0:20:14.121 scene took place at Shannon's house, probably in her garage. 0:20:14.161 --> 0:20:17.521 We know this because Shannon's sister Penny saw smears of 0:20:17.561 --> 0:20:22.601 blood on the outside refrigerator that's in the garage. That's 0:20:22.601 --> 0:20:25.561 also where she found the two broken wine cooler bottles. 0:20:26.601 --> 0:20:30.241 Shannon was beaten to death, then the killer or killers 0:20:30.441 --> 0:20:32.241 put her in her own car and tried to make 0:20:32.241 --> 0:20:35.880 it look like a car accident. Like the investigator said 0:20:36.001 --> 0:20:38.961 to me, the crime scene and manner of death point 0:20:39.001 --> 0:20:42.121 to someone who knew Shannon. Well, there are a couple 0:20:42.121 --> 0:20:44.521 of possibilities. It could have been a crime of passion. 0:20:45.121 --> 0:20:48.561 But from my other podcast, Red Caller, I know that 0:20:48.641 --> 0:20:52.481 sometimes fraud detection. Homicides murders where the motive was money 0:20:52.521 --> 0:20:55.840 can also look like crimes of passion. So let's explore 0:20:55.881 --> 0:20:58.921 the hit man theory. A lot of people have made 0:20:58.961 --> 0:21:01.481 the comment that if this was a planned hit, it 0:21:01.601 --> 0:21:05.841 was a very sloppy job. Apparently that's not that uncommon, though. 0:21:06.721 --> 0:21:10.721 Former FBI criminal profiler Frank Perry, who wrote the book 0:21:10.881 --> 0:21:14.041 Red Caller and White Collar Crime, which was about red 0:21:14.041 --> 0:21:17.041 collar criminals and had a whole chapter about committing murder 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:21.641 for hire, wrote that often killers who commit white collar 0:21:21.681 --> 0:21:24.281 crime and then who kill to cover up their fraud. 0:21:25.321 --> 0:21:28.441 Often when they hire killers, they kind of go cheap. 0:21:29.321 --> 0:21:32.241 They don't have much money, so they'll go with really 0:21:32.281 --> 0:21:35.561 amateur killers instead of hiring professionals like the mob does. 0:21:36.521 --> 0:21:39.961 They hire people who basically are unemployed grifters, people who 0:21:40.001 --> 0:21:43.321 are floating around doing illegal or semi illegal kind of stuff. 0:21:43.761 --> 0:21:47.961 And often when they do hire these amateurs, the amateurs 0:21:48.361 --> 0:21:50.080 will tell a lot of people what they've done, and 0:21:50.121 --> 0:21:53.281 that's how they get caught. If this had been a 0:21:53.401 --> 0:21:56.961 professional hit, the killer would not have left behind so 0:21:57.041 --> 0:22:00.160 many obvious signs of staging. They would have cleaned up 0:22:00.161 --> 0:22:04.120 Shannon's garage. But most crucially, the thing that makes me 0:22:04.241 --> 0:22:06.961 move away from the hip man theory is the fact 0:22:06.961 --> 0:22:10.921 that I went back through the literature when red collar 0:22:10.961 --> 0:22:15.481 criminals hire hitmen, every single example I could find involves 0:22:15.881 --> 0:22:20.080 the killer bringing their own weapon. It's not impossible for 0:22:20.161 --> 0:22:22.360 a hit man to come to someone's house and not 0:22:22.441 --> 0:22:25.001 bring a weapon and then stop to drink a wine 0:22:25.001 --> 0:22:29.001 cooler with a victim, but it seems very unlikely. The 0:22:29.041 --> 0:22:31.600 only exception to this would be, of course, if the 0:22:31.681 --> 0:22:35.640 hip man was someone Shannon knew. The hip man theory 0:22:35.721 --> 0:22:38.441 isn't impossible. We have to keep an open mind, but 0:22:38.601 --> 0:22:41.281 in my opinion, with everything that we know, it seems 0:22:41.401 --> 0:22:47.120 more and more unlikely whether a killer is financially motivated 0:22:47.401 --> 0:22:50.640 or whether they're motivated by something else like jealousy or rage. 0:22:51.361 --> 0:22:53.881 The reason why they kill is to solve a problem 0:22:54.321 --> 0:22:58.801 because they're losing control over a situation. So if the 0:22:58.881 --> 0:23:02.201 motive for Shannon's murder was financial, we need to look 0:23:02.241 --> 0:23:06.561 at who could have benefited financially from Shannon's death. After 0:23:06.601 --> 0:23:10.321 Shannon died, Penny Stevens, her sister, and a first cousin 0:23:10.361 --> 0:23:14.241 of theirs named John Madwell inherited Shannon's real estate business, 0:23:14.441 --> 0:23:18.361 Annie Bellams. They started running the company together and according 0:23:18.441 --> 0:23:21.120 to the last information that I found, the company is 0:23:21.121 --> 0:23:24.161 still around as of a few years ago. At lease, 0:23:24.281 --> 0:23:28.160 the cousin John Madwell was running the business with his wife. 0:23:28.241 --> 0:23:29.920 I just want to be clear, I don't think for 0:23:29.961 --> 0:23:32.600 a second that Penny was involved in her sister's murder. 0:23:33.241 --> 0:23:36.201 I think she comes across as genuinely distraught, someone who 0:23:36.241 --> 0:23:39.241 loved her sister and wants to get justice for her. 0:23:39.281 --> 0:23:41.721 And she's also been the one who has been very 0:23:41.801 --> 0:23:45.521 vocal about keeping her sister's case public eye over the years. 0:23:46.121 --> 0:23:50.281 But I think there's someone we might be overlooking. Was 0:23:50.361 --> 0:23:55.241 there someone who was involved in a business deal with Shannon? Again, 0:23:55.321 --> 0:23:58.400 this is pure speculation because no one has ever suggested this, 0:23:59.121 --> 0:24:01.561 But could Shannon have found herself caught up in some 0:24:01.641 --> 0:24:05.080 kind of fraudulent behavior or was someone defrauding her and 0:24:05.121 --> 0:24:07.041 she was threatening to go to law enforcement or to 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:11.241 sue that person. I'm making this point because right now, 0:24:11.441 --> 0:24:14.121 when you look at the evidence, there's no obvious windfall. 0:24:15.201 --> 0:24:17.801 We need to follow the money on this case. We 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:20.481 need to see if there were any lawsuits pending exactly 0:24:20.521 --> 0:24:23.161 what was going on in Shannon's business at the time 0:24:23.161 --> 0:24:27.241 of her death. In addition to the money trail, we 0:24:27.361 --> 0:24:30.080 need to go back again to the stage crime scene, 0:24:30.121 --> 0:24:32.401 which in my opinion, is our biggest clue so far. 0:24:34.241 --> 0:24:38.120 In a publication called Collision or Collusion Homicide Staged as 0:24:38.161 --> 0:24:40.880 Car Accidents by Claire Ferguson, which was published in the 0:24:40.961 --> 0:24:45.001 National Library of Health, the author describes sixteen homicides that 0:24:45.041 --> 0:24:49.001 were staged as car accidents. The descriptive analysis examined common 0:24:49.041 --> 0:24:55.441 staging behaviors and victim, offender and offense characteristics. Her findings 0:24:55.521 --> 0:25:00.521 indicate that staged car accidents present differently than real accidents, 0:25:00.561 --> 0:25:04.521 and in a nutshell, every single thing that she mentioned 0:25:04.641 --> 0:25:07.481