1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,041 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:28,601 --> 00:01:31,361 Speaker 2: On August third, two thousand and nine, just before midnight, 13 00:01:32,041 --> 00:01:35,281 Speaker 2: an on Star satellite service got a notification of an 14 00:01:35,281 --> 00:01:39,801 Speaker 2: emergency from inside a Cadillac Escalae that had crashed. The 15 00:01:39,881 --> 00:01:42,881 Speaker 2: vehicle had plunged off a cliff just off Walker Trail 16 00:01:42,961 --> 00:01:46,921 Speaker 2: in Severe count Tennessee. The on Star service called nine 17 00:01:46,961 --> 00:01:50,281 Speaker 2: one one and police responded to the scene. They found 18 00:01:50,281 --> 00:01:52,721 Speaker 2: a bent guard rail. The car was in the middle 19 00:01:52,721 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: of the woods, so it was hard to get down 20 00:01:54,921 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: to the crash scene. Deputies had to repel to the 21 00:01:58,081 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 2: bottom of a one hundred and twenty five foot drop off. 22 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,161 Speaker 2: When they got down there, they saw the black two 23 00:02:04,201 --> 00:02:09,121 Speaker 2: thousand and seven Cadillac Escalade. Inside the twisted metal wreckage 24 00:02:09,121 --> 00:02:12,041 Speaker 2: of that car, they found the body of forty year 25 00:02:12,081 --> 00:02:16,561 Speaker 2: old Shannon her Cut. At first, the Tennessee Highway Patrol 26 00:02:16,641 --> 00:02:19,601 Speaker 2: said Shannon had died in a car accident. It seemed 27 00:02:19,641 --> 00:02:23,201 Speaker 2: like a tragic fatality, but nothing more than that. But 28 00:02:23,281 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 2: a few days later, Shannon Hercut's manner of death was 29 00:02:26,641 --> 00:02:30,601 Speaker 2: changed to homicide. Local authorities said someone had beaten her 30 00:02:30,601 --> 00:02:33,641 Speaker 2: to death, then put her inside the car to stage 31 00:02:33,641 --> 00:02:38,201 Speaker 2: the accident. Shannon was well known. She was friendly and outgoing, 32 00:02:38,361 --> 00:02:42,401 Speaker 2: a successful and well liked local businesswoman, but according to 33 00:02:42,441 --> 00:02:45,121 Speaker 2: her own family, she was also someone who had a 34 00:02:45,161 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: lot of secrets. There had been family feuds and legal 35 00:02:49,161 --> 00:02:53,721 Speaker 2: battles related to her business and possibly some people suggested, 36 00:02:54,281 --> 00:02:58,361 Speaker 2: maybe even a secret lover. Now, over the years, this 37 00:02:58,561 --> 00:03:01,401 Speaker 2: case has been covered multiple times. It's been covered by 38 00:03:01,401 --> 00:03:05,201 Speaker 2: local media, national media, and even doctor Phil And every 39 00:03:05,321 --> 00:03:08,641 Speaker 2: time I hear about this story, the same narrative has 40 00:03:08,681 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 2: been put forward. But as you all know, I want 41 00:03:11,801 --> 00:03:13,721 Speaker 2: to go behind the scenes and see what we can 42 00:03:13,761 --> 00:03:17,881 Speaker 2: do to take this case forward who killed Shannon Hercut. 43 00:03:19,801 --> 00:03:23,241 Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years making my 44 00:03:23,321 --> 00:03:27,001 Speaker 2: true crime podcast, Telling Gone, I've learned there's no such 45 00:03:27,081 --> 00:03:30,841 Speaker 2: thing as a small town where murder never happens. I've 46 00:03:30,881 --> 00:03:34,641 Speaker 2: received hundreds of messages from people all around the country 47 00:03:34,681 --> 00:03:37,361 Speaker 2: asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, 48 00:03:37,761 --> 00:03:41,641 Speaker 2: their families, and their communities. And now they have a 49 00:03:41,681 --> 00:03:44,721 Speaker 2: new way to reach out. You have a case you'd 50 00:03:44,721 --> 00:03:47,241 Speaker 2: like me and my team to look into, you can 51 00:03:47,281 --> 00:03:49,641 Speaker 2: reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line 52 00:03:50,001 --> 00:03:53,641 Speaker 2: at six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 53 00:03:54,481 --> 00:03:58,281 Speaker 2: That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 54 00:03:59,401 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. I was contacted about 55 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,281 Speaker 2: the Shannon her Cut case by listener a while back. 56 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: As always, we start with victimology. We want to know 57 00:04:58,801 --> 00:05:01,201 Speaker 2: who Shannon was and what was going on in her 58 00:05:01,241 --> 00:05:05,681 Speaker 2: life in the time period immediately before she died. Shannon 59 00:05:05,761 --> 00:05:09,361 Speaker 2: her Cut was born in Severeville, Tennessee, on May twenty second, 60 00:05:09,481 --> 00:05:12,441 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine. This is an area that gets a 61 00:05:12,441 --> 00:05:15,161 Speaker 2: lot of tourists. It's in the Great Smoky Mountains and 62 00:05:15,241 --> 00:05:18,841 Speaker 2: it's near Dollywood. Dolly Parton's theme park in Pigeon Forge. 63 00:05:19,721 --> 00:05:22,321 Speaker 2: Shannon's mom, Patricia, ran a general store that she opened 64 00:05:22,401 --> 00:05:26,121 Speaker 2: up in the early nineties. It was called Anti Bellam's. Eventually, 65 00:05:26,481 --> 00:05:28,961 Speaker 2: Shannon went out on her own. She opened up a 66 00:05:29,001 --> 00:05:32,361 Speaker 2: real estate and rental business, also using the family business name. 67 00:05:33,281 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: Shannon's business was called Anti Bellum's Realty and Rentals. It 68 00:05:37,201 --> 00:05:40,921 Speaker 2: was in Pigeon Forge, near where she grew up. Opening 69 00:05:40,961 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: this business was a very smart mood because over the 70 00:05:43,721 --> 00:05:47,681 Speaker 2: the years the demand for rental properties skyrocketed in that area, 71 00:05:47,761 --> 00:05:50,601 Speaker 2: and Shannon did very well for herself. She was in 72 00:05:50,721 --> 00:05:53,241 Speaker 2: charge of renting out around one hundred and thirty cabins. 73 00:05:53,801 --> 00:05:56,921 Speaker 2: She also oversaw other projects, including the opening of a 74 00:05:56,921 --> 00:06:01,321 Speaker 2: local playground called Mount Ton of Fun. In media reports, 75 00:06:01,481 --> 00:06:05,521 Speaker 2: Shannon is described as single and happy. She never married 76 00:06:05,521 --> 00:06:08,161 Speaker 2: and didn't have any children, but she had a lot 77 00:06:08,161 --> 00:06:10,481 Speaker 2: of friends and was active in her town and in 78 00:06:10,521 --> 00:06:14,521 Speaker 2: her church. One of her relatives in an interview, made 79 00:06:14,521 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: a comment about Shannon being strong willed, which can sometimes 80 00:06:19,361 --> 00:06:22,481 Speaker 2: mean if someone's very opinionated, perhaps that could point to 81 00:06:22,521 --> 00:06:25,241 Speaker 2: them getting into conflict with people. But a lot of 82 00:06:25,241 --> 00:06:27,761 Speaker 2: people said that Shannon was generally very well liked at 83 00:06:27,801 --> 00:06:29,841 Speaker 2: work and that the people who worked for her were 84 00:06:29,961 --> 00:06:33,881 Speaker 2: very loyal to her. But her life wasn't perfect. At 85 00:06:33,921 --> 00:06:36,281 Speaker 2: the time of her death in two thousand and nine, 86 00:06:36,321 --> 00:06:40,641 Speaker 2: Shannon was dealing with difficult relationships with several different people. 87 00:06:41,761 --> 00:06:45,841 Speaker 2: As we often see, big success sometimes brings business rivals 88 00:06:46,041 --> 00:06:49,801 Speaker 2: or threats of lawsuits and people wanting money. One of 89 00:06:49,841 --> 00:06:53,281 Speaker 2: the people Shannon was feuding with was her own father, Ted. 90 00:06:53,361 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 2: Her cut. 91 00:06:55,241 --> 00:06:55,601 Speaker 1: Again. 92 00:06:55,961 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 2: Over the years, everything that I've read about this case 93 00:06:59,481 --> 00:07:02,801 Speaker 2: has seemed to have the same narrative that a lot 94 00:07:02,841 --> 00:07:06,001 Speaker 2: of people suspect Ted, and that he totally denies that 95 00:07:06,041 --> 00:07:10,041 Speaker 2: he's involved in his daughter's death. So now we fast 96 00:07:10,081 --> 00:07:12,361 Speaker 2: forward to August third, two thousand and nine. In the 97 00:07:12,441 --> 00:07:17,041 Speaker 2: hours immediately following that car crash. On that day, Ted 98 00:07:17,121 --> 00:07:20,521 Speaker 2: Hircut had an alibi. At the time of Shannon's murder, 99 00:07:20,881 --> 00:07:23,561 Speaker 2: he was almost four hundred miles away in Myrtle Beach, 100 00:07:23,601 --> 00:07:28,401 Speaker 2: South Carolina with his wife, Shannon's stepmother, Anita. His other daughter, 101 00:07:28,481 --> 00:07:32,321 Speaker 2: Shannon's sister, Penny Stevens, was also nearby vacationing with her 102 00:07:32,321 --> 00:07:37,201 Speaker 2: young daughter. Later on, when Ted and Penny appeared on 103 00:07:37,281 --> 00:07:40,881 Speaker 2: Doctor Phil in what was a very emotional and memorable episode. 104 00:07:41,561 --> 00:07:44,481 Speaker 2: Ted told doctor Phil that he got a call from 105 00:07:44,521 --> 00:07:47,161 Speaker 2: his former son in law, a guy named Jerry Stevens, 106 00:07:47,161 --> 00:07:49,401 Speaker 2: who used to be married to Penny and who apparently 107 00:07:49,441 --> 00:07:53,321 Speaker 2: worked in law enforcement. Ted said Jerry called him to 108 00:07:53,361 --> 00:07:56,921 Speaker 2: break the news that Shannon's body had been found. Penny 109 00:07:56,961 --> 00:07:58,801 Speaker 2: got the news on the same day, and she later 110 00:07:58,881 --> 00:08:01,761 Speaker 2: told reporters that when she heard what happened to her sister, 111 00:08:01,881 --> 00:08:04,641 Speaker 2: she immediately thought that this could not have been an accident. 112 00:08:05,681 --> 00:08:08,681 Speaker 2: Ted said he also immediately suspected this had not been 113 00:08:08,721 --> 00:08:12,401 Speaker 2: a traffic accident. There were some details that just seemed off, 114 00:08:12,481 --> 00:08:14,641 Speaker 2: like the fact that Shannon was not wearing her seat 115 00:08:14,641 --> 00:08:18,241 Speaker 2: belt when the car crashed. Apparently she always made a 116 00:08:18,241 --> 00:08:21,721 Speaker 2: point of wearing her seat belt. Her family also wondered 117 00:08:21,801 --> 00:08:24,921 Speaker 2: why she would be driving in that area alone late 118 00:08:24,921 --> 00:08:26,881 Speaker 2: at night, which was definitely not a part of her 119 00:08:26,921 --> 00:08:32,001 Speaker 2: regular routine. But most crucially, when the car was found, 120 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: both the driver's side and passenger window were down. Both 121 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,881 Speaker 2: Ted and Penny, his daughter, agreed Shannon would never have 122 00:08:40,961 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: those windows down because she was obsessed about keeping her 123 00:08:44,761 --> 00:08:49,481 Speaker 2: hair perfect, and obviously, in that high humidity, having both 124 00:08:49,521 --> 00:08:51,841 Speaker 2: windows down with the wind blowing in her hair was 125 00:08:51,961 --> 00:08:54,321 Speaker 2: just not something that they said Shannon would ever do. 126 00:08:54,961 --> 00:08:56,881 Speaker 2: If she did have to go out after dark, she 127 00:08:56,881 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: would have those windows up and she would have the 128 00:08:58,761 --> 00:09:04,961 Speaker 2: ac blasting. Police ruled Shannon's death an accident and they 129 00:09:05,001 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: didn't want to do an autopsy, but Ted insisted. He 130 00:09:09,601 --> 00:09:12,361 Speaker 2: refused to sign a form allowing Shannon to be buried. 131 00:09:13,321 --> 00:09:15,361 Speaker 2: He also called a friend of his, a guy named 132 00:09:15,401 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: Jerry Grubbs now. Jerry was a retired National Park Service 133 00:09:19,121 --> 00:09:21,641 Speaker 2: ranger who also worked in law enforcement and later became 134 00:09:21,681 --> 00:09:26,081 Speaker 2: a private investigator. Jerry said that he found physical evidence 135 00:09:26,081 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: at that crime scene, physical evidence he said, was overlooked 136 00:09:29,561 --> 00:09:32,321 Speaker 2: both by the Sheriff's office and the Tennessee Highway Patrol. 137 00:09:33,681 --> 00:09:37,481 Speaker 2: In a video that Jerry posted on YouTube, he films 138 00:09:37,521 --> 00:09:40,321 Speaker 2: the area where the car wrecked and says, based on 139 00:09:40,401 --> 00:09:43,321 Speaker 2: how that car was found, he thinks that it basically 140 00:09:43,401 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 2: did a straight drop. He said that if the car 141 00:09:46,601 --> 00:09:49,441 Speaker 2: had been traveling at any rate of speed, it would 142 00:09:49,481 --> 00:09:51,561 Speaker 2: have been airborne and it would have been found way 143 00:09:51,601 --> 00:09:55,081 Speaker 2: deeper in the forest. There was also no real damage 144 00:09:55,081 --> 00:09:57,401 Speaker 2: to the windshield and no skid marks from the tire 145 00:09:57,401 --> 00:10:01,041 Speaker 2: tracks of the scene, which presumably meant that no one 146 00:10:01,161 --> 00:10:04,801 Speaker 2: slammed on the brakes to try to avoid an accident. Later, 147 00:10:04,881 --> 00:10:06,961 Speaker 2: a team went in and they found out through looking 148 00:10:07,001 --> 00:10:10,401 Speaker 2: at the car's electrical system that Shannon had only been 149 00:10:10,401 --> 00:10:13,841 Speaker 2: traveling at seven miles per hour before the crash. She 150 00:10:13,921 --> 00:10:16,121 Speaker 2: wasn't even going fast enough for her air bags to 151 00:10:16,121 --> 00:10:20,921 Speaker 2: deploy Ted told reporters that Shannon's injuries did not appear 152 00:10:20,961 --> 00:10:23,961 Speaker 2: to have come from the car crash. He said at 153 00:10:23,961 --> 00:10:27,081 Speaker 2: the time quote the paramedics said her head had a 154 00:10:27,121 --> 00:10:29,521 Speaker 2: gash in it the size of a grapefruit, and there 155 00:10:29,561 --> 00:10:31,801 Speaker 2: was nothing inside the car that could have made that 156 00:10:31,921 --> 00:10:37,361 Speaker 2: gash end quote. At that point, the Sheriff's office investigators 157 00:10:37,441 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: finally agreed to an autopsy, and when that autopsy came back, 158 00:10:41,761 --> 00:10:45,001 Speaker 2: it became clear that Shannon's injury had not happened in 159 00:10:45,001 --> 00:10:49,361 Speaker 2: the car accident. Police said someone beat her to death 160 00:10:49,441 --> 00:10:52,721 Speaker 2: at her home, put her inside that car, and pushed 161 00:10:52,721 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 2: her over that hill. Cause of death was blunt forced 162 00:10:56,081 --> 00:10:59,601 Speaker 2: trauma to Shannon's head, and the manner of death was 163 00:10:59,721 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 2: changed from accident to homicide. Three days after Shannon's body 164 00:11:10,641 --> 00:11:13,241 Speaker 2: was found, police finally went to her house to look 165 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,961 Speaker 2: around Shannon's sister Penny went to her house too. She 166 00:11:18,121 --> 00:11:20,241 Speaker 2: was there to pick out an outfit for her sister 167 00:11:20,321 --> 00:11:23,961 Speaker 2: to be buried in. She later told Knox News that 168 00:11:24,041 --> 00:11:27,041 Speaker 2: when she arrived to that house, she saw that some 169 00:11:27,121 --> 00:11:29,601 Speaker 2: things in her sister's residence seemed to be out of place. 170 00:11:30,481 --> 00:11:32,921 Speaker 2: She saw a baseball bat in the back of Shannon's 171 00:11:32,921 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: work truck. She also saw what appeared to be blood 172 00:11:36,401 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 2: on the refrigerator that was in Shannon's garage, right by 173 00:11:39,721 --> 00:11:43,961 Speaker 2: the handle. She told the news station quote, I had 174 00:11:44,001 --> 00:11:47,481 Speaker 2: noticed two wine cooler type bottles on the floor busted 175 00:11:47,521 --> 00:11:51,601 Speaker 2: and that was it. There were also no signs of 176 00:11:51,681 --> 00:11:55,201 Speaker 2: forced entry. Police had a few theories at this point, 177 00:11:55,241 --> 00:11:58,201 Speaker 2: but no real leads. They considered the possibility that it 178 00:11:58,201 --> 00:12:00,841 Speaker 2: could have been an angry client of Shannon's, someone that 179 00:12:00,881 --> 00:12:04,201 Speaker 2: she had a business to spete with, but Penny made 180 00:12:04,241 --> 00:12:07,201 Speaker 2: it clear that she had another prime suspect in mind 181 00:12:07,201 --> 00:12:12,601 Speaker 2: for Shannon's murder, their father, Ted har Cut. So let's 182 00:12:12,601 --> 00:12:16,401 Speaker 2: go back and look at the family relationships. Penny and 183 00:12:16,481 --> 00:12:19,281 Speaker 2: Ted appeared on The Doctor Phil's show in twenty fifteen, 184 00:12:19,361 --> 00:12:23,401 Speaker 2: and on that show, it's immediately clear that there is 185 00:12:23,441 --> 00:12:27,841 Speaker 2: a lot of animosity between Ted and Penny. She told 186 00:12:27,841 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: doctor phil that since she was very young, her father 187 00:12:32,121 --> 00:12:35,761 Speaker 2: had been behaving in extremely disturbing ways. She said he'd 188 00:12:35,801 --> 00:12:39,481 Speaker 2: been emotionally abusive and that he was greedy and a 189 00:12:39,561 --> 00:12:43,201 Speaker 2: pathological liar. And when Ted HRCUT came out and tried 190 00:12:43,201 --> 00:12:46,161 Speaker 2: to hug his daughter on stage, she refused to touch 191 00:12:46,241 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: him or have anything to do with him. Reading between 192 00:12:49,241 --> 00:12:53,241 Speaker 2: the lines, it seems like the bad blood between Ted 193 00:12:53,441 --> 00:12:58,721 Speaker 2: and Shannon got worse after Penny and Shannon's mother, Patricia 194 00:12:58,761 --> 00:13:02,721 Speaker 2: passed away. That happened in two thousand and eight. Patricia 195 00:13:02,801 --> 00:13:06,281 Speaker 2: died after a long battle with cancer. She had been 196 00:13:06,321 --> 00:13:11,721 Speaker 2: divorced from Ted for several years by then. After Patricia's death, 197 00:13:12,561 --> 00:13:15,081 Speaker 2: Shannon inherited a piece of land from her, a piece 198 00:13:15,121 --> 00:13:18,321 Speaker 2: of land that was apparently worth about a million dollars. 199 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 2: Shannon and Ted got into a legal battle for that land. 200 00:13:23,241 --> 00:13:26,841 Speaker 2: They started fighting after Patricia's death, so about a year 201 00:13:26,881 --> 00:13:30,521 Speaker 2: before Shannon was murdered. By the time of Shannon's death, 202 00:13:30,601 --> 00:13:33,401 Speaker 2: Ted admitted that he and his daughter were estranged. They 203 00:13:33,441 --> 00:13:37,561 Speaker 2: were not talking at all, They were only communicating through lawyers. 204 00:13:38,161 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: So what was really going on? When Shannon her cuts 205 00:13:40,961 --> 00:13:43,721 Speaker 2: will in two thousand and three, Shannon made a way 206 00:13:43,801 --> 00:13:46,121 Speaker 2: will and she left twenty nine percent of her state 207 00:13:46,161 --> 00:13:48,761 Speaker 2: to her father Ted. But in two thousand and six, 208 00:13:49,161 --> 00:13:52,601 Speaker 2: Shannon made another will, and in that will she specifically 209 00:13:52,641 --> 00:13:55,721 Speaker 2: mentioned that it was her wish that neither Ted nor 210 00:13:55,761 --> 00:13:59,401 Speaker 2: his wife would inherit anything from her. Now, Penny claimed 211 00:13:59,441 --> 00:14:02,241 Speaker 2: Ted was furious about that, about the fact that Shannon 212 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: had cut him out of the will, but Ted has 213 00:14:05,001 --> 00:14:09,441 Speaker 2: always totally denied that. Penny has always said that her 214 00:14:09,441 --> 00:14:14,641 Speaker 2: father's motive in killing Shannon was money. But who really 215 00:14:14,681 --> 00:14:17,801 Speaker 2: gained from Shannon's death? Because we know that Ted didn't 216 00:14:17,801 --> 00:14:23,001 Speaker 2: inherit anything. Nod explain this. Penny said that Ted didn't 217 00:14:23,081 --> 00:14:25,361 Speaker 2: realize Shannon had changed her will, so he would have 218 00:14:25,401 --> 00:14:28,761 Speaker 2: thought that he might inherit something from her. Ted said 219 00:14:28,841 --> 00:14:31,241 Speaker 2: he never expected anything from his daughter's will and that 220 00:14:31,281 --> 00:14:34,761 Speaker 2: he never needed any money from her. On Doctor Phil 221 00:14:35,001 --> 00:14:38,841 Speaker 2: Ted looked genuinely shocked when Penny stated bluntly she believed 222 00:14:38,881 --> 00:14:41,001 Speaker 2: he had hired a hip man to kill her sister. 223 00:14:42,241 --> 00:14:44,801 Speaker 2: I believe that Penny is since I think she is 224 00:14:44,921 --> 00:14:47,281 Speaker 2: convinced that her dad had something to do with Shannon's 225 00:14:47,321 --> 00:14:51,241 Speaker 2: death and that she was afraid of him, and if 226 00:14:51,281 --> 00:14:55,241 Speaker 2: you watch their interactions, it's clear, in my opinion, that 227 00:14:55,281 --> 00:14:59,281 Speaker 2: there's something about Ted that seems off. At certain moments, 228 00:14:59,321 --> 00:15:02,801 Speaker 2: he appears to be unhinged. I also think it's possible 229 00:15:02,801 --> 00:15:05,441 Speaker 2: that he's lying about a few things, like the weird 230 00:15:05,521 --> 00:15:08,401 Speaker 2: vandalism of Shannon's business that happened back in November of 231 00:15:08,441 --> 00:15:11,001 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, just a few months after Shannon's murder. 232 00:15:11,961 --> 00:15:17,041 Speaker 2: On November twentieth, Pigeon Force police responded to shots fired 233 00:15:17,201 --> 00:15:21,441 Speaker 2: at Shannon's business, Annie Bellham's realty in Nightly Rentals. Someone 234 00:15:21,481 --> 00:15:24,001 Speaker 2: had shown up there and started firing shots into the 235 00:15:24,001 --> 00:15:28,121 Speaker 2: front door. They fired off eight rounds in all. Penny 236 00:15:28,161 --> 00:15:31,241 Speaker 2: said her father had confessed to her that he was 237 00:15:31,281 --> 00:15:34,881 Speaker 2: the one who shot up the business, and when Doctor 238 00:15:34,921 --> 00:15:38,441 Speaker 2: Phil asked Ted about this, he kind of sidesteps the question. 239 00:15:39,241 --> 00:15:42,801 Speaker 2: It does seem like he could be lying about vandalizing 240 00:15:42,841 --> 00:15:47,881 Speaker 2: that business. The Doctor Phil's show had a lot more 241 00:15:47,961 --> 00:15:51,881 Speaker 2: family drama on. They also had Ted's third wife, Jan, 242 00:15:52,281 --> 00:15:55,601 Speaker 2: who he married in the summer of twenty fourteen. After 243 00:15:55,641 --> 00:15:58,441 Speaker 2: just three weeks of marriage, Ted got in annulment and 244 00:15:58,441 --> 00:16:02,361 Speaker 2: the marriage fell apart. Jan told Doctor Phil that Ted 245 00:16:02,481 --> 00:16:06,161 Speaker 2: had what she called a dark side. Now, I've been 246 00:16:06,281 --> 00:16:09,121 Speaker 2: on Doctor Phil before talking about the Ebbie Stepec case, 247 00:16:09,201 --> 00:16:11,601 Speaker 2: and so I actually know a lot about how this 248 00:16:11,641 --> 00:16:15,801 Speaker 2: process works. I spent several weeks with the producers doing 249 00:16:15,841 --> 00:16:18,761 Speaker 2: in depth research and giving them information about what was 250 00:16:18,801 --> 00:16:20,841 Speaker 2: going on with the case, and I knew this in 251 00:16:20,881 --> 00:16:23,721 Speaker 2: advance of the information that I gave them. They only 252 00:16:23,801 --> 00:16:26,601 Speaker 2: aired a tiny portion of it. They do that for 253 00:16:26,641 --> 00:16:28,961 Speaker 2: a lot of reasons. First of all, there's very limited 254 00:16:29,001 --> 00:16:31,001 Speaker 2: time to present the case, so you can't go too 255 00:16:31,001 --> 00:16:34,361 Speaker 2: deep into the woods. But also, and this is not 256 00:16:34,481 --> 00:16:38,321 Speaker 2: an insult to TV producers, but their primary purpose is 257 00:16:38,441 --> 00:16:42,201 Speaker 2: presenting the story and making good TV. It's not really 258 00:16:42,281 --> 00:16:46,881 Speaker 2: solving a case. So instead of going deeper into suspects, 259 00:16:47,481 --> 00:16:49,881 Speaker 2: what we got on Doctor Phil was more family drama. 260 00:16:50,641 --> 00:16:53,281 Speaker 2: Because then Ted came on again and he said Jan 261 00:16:53,361 --> 00:16:56,201 Speaker 2: had a criminal history and that she had stolen four 262 00:16:56,281 --> 00:16:59,601 Speaker 2: hundred dollars from him and stolen his credit cards. There's 263 00:16:59,641 --> 00:17:01,681 Speaker 2: a lot more family drama that plays out on the 264 00:17:01,681 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 2: show that I'm not going to get into. But at 265 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,281 Speaker 2: the end of the episode, my takeaway was that Doctor 266 00:17:07,281 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: Phil seemed to come to basically the same conclusion that 267 00:17:10,041 --> 00:17:14,041 Speaker 2: I did. He said Ted may be an asshole, but 268 00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:16,201 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean he's a killer or that he hired 269 00:17:16,241 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 2: a hitman. He kept saying the same question I was asking, 270 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 2: which is what's the actual evidence that at that moment 271 00:17:23,681 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine, Ted would have had a 272 00:17:26,041 --> 00:17:30,041 Speaker 2: motive to kill his daughter. With all of these cases, 273 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 2: when you have so many crazy rumors flying around, and 274 00:17:33,321 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 2: especially when there are complicated family dynamics and accusations, I 275 00:17:37,761 --> 00:17:41,201 Speaker 2: always talk about how important it is to filter out 276 00:17:41,201 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 2: what I call the noise of the case, and while 277 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: we want to keep an open mind and not ignore 278 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,921 Speaker 2: any possibilities, I think that the Shannon her Cut case 279 00:17:50,041 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 2: is a great example of this. We need to filter 280 00:17:53,041 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: out all of the family drama and focus on the 281 00:17:55,601 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: facts of the case. As we've said several times over 282 00:17:59,161 --> 00:18:02,241 Speaker 2: the years, being a creep is not illegal and it 283 00:18:02,281 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 2: doesn't make you a killer. Ted has never been charged 284 00:18:06,121 --> 00:18:09,841 Speaker 2: in connection with Shannon's murder. He's always denied having anything 285 00:18:09,881 --> 00:18:13,481 Speaker 2: to do with it. I honestly think that at this 286 00:18:13,601 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 2: point the evidence points away from him, and there are 287 00:18:15,921 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: a few reasons why. First of all, Ted was one 288 00:18:19,121 --> 00:18:22,001 Speaker 2: of the first people to demand that Shannon's body be 289 00:18:22,001 --> 00:18:24,961 Speaker 2: taken in for an autopsy. He got that expert Jerry 290 00:18:25,001 --> 00:18:27,761 Speaker 2: Grubbs to go to the scene. He told anyone who 291 00:18:27,761 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: would listen over the years that his daughter's death was 292 00:18:30,001 --> 00:18:33,081 Speaker 2: not an accident, which does not seem like the actions 293 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,281 Speaker 2: of a person who killed his daughter. If Ted had 294 00:18:36,361 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 2: been involved in Shannon's death, it seems like the last 295 00:18:40,121 --> 00:18:42,401 Speaker 2: thing he would have done, especially after the death had 296 00:18:42,481 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 2: already been ruled naxtident and she was getting ready to 297 00:18:44,921 --> 00:18:48,441 Speaker 2: be buried, is to go public and demand that police 298 00:18:48,481 --> 00:18:53,561 Speaker 2: investigate the possibility of murder. Ted died in twenty seventeen, 299 00:18:54,361 --> 00:18:57,281 Speaker 2: so if Ted was involved, whatever secrets he had would 300 00:18:57,281 --> 00:19:02,681 Speaker 2: have died with him. Even now, police say they've never 301 00:19:02,761 --> 00:19:07,121 Speaker 2: found any connection between Ted and Shannon's murder. If that's 302 00:19:07,161 --> 00:19:10,121 Speaker 2: the case, that means that Shannon's killer is still out there. 303 00:19:10,761 --> 00:19:13,201 Speaker 2: And though police have been pretty tight lipped about the 304 00:19:13,241 --> 00:19:17,521 Speaker 2: investigation so far, one investigator has said they believe the 305 00:19:17,561 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 2: evidence points to someone outside the family, but someone who 306 00:19:21,721 --> 00:19:25,561 Speaker 2: knew Shannon. He also said they believe they know the 307 00:19:25,641 --> 00:19:30,001 Speaker 2: killer's motive. He made this kind of cryptic comment. He said, 308 00:19:30,801 --> 00:19:33,241 Speaker 2: if I told you what it was, it'd be obvious 309 00:19:33,281 --> 00:19:37,281 Speaker 2: who I was talking about. So to sum up, I 310 00:19:37,321 --> 00:19:40,241 Speaker 2: don't think that the evidence points to Ted, and at 311 00:19:40,321 --> 00:19:45,361 Speaker 2: least one of the investigators on the case agrees. Let's 312 00:19:45,441 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: move away from the family drama between Ted and his 313 00:19:47,921 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 2: daughter Penny and back to what we know, Back to 314 00:19:50,881 --> 00:19:55,281 Speaker 2: the crime scene, with the evidence. We know where the 315 00:19:55,321 --> 00:19:59,001 Speaker 2: car crashed. We know that this was a staged crime scene. 316 00:19:59,121 --> 00:20:02,481 Speaker 2: The real crime scene took place at Shannon's house, probably 317 00:20:02,521 --> 00:20:06,761 Speaker 2: in her garage. Then the killer or killers tried to 318 00:20:06,761 --> 00:20:09,921 Speaker 2: make it look like a car accident. The real crime 319 00:20:09,961 --> 00:20:14,121 Speaker 2: scene took place at Shannon's house, probably in her garage. 320 00:20:14,161 --> 00:20:17,521 Speaker 2: We know this because Shannon's sister Penny saw smears of 321 00:20:17,561 --> 00:20:22,601 Speaker 2: blood on the outside refrigerator that's in the garage. That's 322 00:20:22,601 --> 00:20:25,561 Speaker 2: also where she found the two broken wine cooler bottles. 323 00:20:26,601 --> 00:20:30,241 Speaker 2: Shannon was beaten to death, then the killer or killers 324 00:20:30,441 --> 00:20:32,241 Speaker 2: put her in her own car and tried to make 325 00:20:32,241 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 2: it look like a car accident. Like the investigator said 326 00:20:36,001 --> 00:20:38,961 Speaker 2: to me, the crime scene and manner of death point 327 00:20:39,001 --> 00:20:42,121 Speaker 2: to someone who knew Shannon. Well, there are a couple 328 00:20:42,121 --> 00:20:44,521 Speaker 2: of possibilities. It could have been a crime of passion. 329 00:20:45,121 --> 00:20:48,561 Speaker 2: But from my other podcast, Red Caller, I know that 330 00:20:48,641 --> 00:20:52,481 Speaker 2: sometimes fraud detection. Homicides murders where the motive was money 331 00:20:52,521 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: can also look like crimes of passion. So let's explore 332 00:20:55,881 --> 00:20:58,921 Speaker 2: the hit man theory. A lot of people have made 333 00:20:58,961 --> 00:21:01,481 Speaker 2: the comment that if this was a planned hit, it 334 00:21:01,601 --> 00:21:05,841 Speaker 2: was a very sloppy job. Apparently that's not that uncommon, though. 335 00:21:06,721 --> 00:21:10,721 Speaker 2: Former FBI criminal profiler Frank Perry, who wrote the book 336 00:21:10,881 --> 00:21:14,041 Speaker 2: Red Caller and White Collar Crime, which was about red 337 00:21:14,041 --> 00:21:17,041 Speaker 2: collar criminals and had a whole chapter about committing murder 338 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,641 Speaker 2: for hire, wrote that often killers who commit white collar 339 00:21:21,681 --> 00:21:24,281 Speaker 2: crime and then who kill to cover up their fraud. 340 00:21:25,321 --> 00:21:28,441 Speaker 2: Often when they hire killers, they kind of go cheap. 341 00:21:29,321 --> 00:21:32,241 Speaker 2: They don't have much money, so they'll go with really 342 00:21:32,281 --> 00:21:35,561 Speaker 2: amateur killers instead of hiring professionals like the mob does. 343 00:21:36,521 --> 00:21:39,961 Speaker 2: They hire people who basically are unemployed grifters, people who 344 00:21:40,001 --> 00:21:43,321 Speaker 2: are floating around doing illegal or semi illegal kind of stuff. 345 00:21:43,761 --> 00:21:47,961 Speaker 2: And often when they do hire these amateurs, the amateurs 346 00:21:48,361 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: will tell a lot of people what they've done, and 347 00:21:50,121 --> 00:21:53,281 Speaker 2: that's how they get caught. If this had been a 348 00:21:53,401 --> 00:21:56,961 Speaker 2: professional hit, the killer would not have left behind so 349 00:21:57,041 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 2: many obvious signs of staging. They would have cleaned up 350 00:22:00,161 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 2: Shannon's garage. But most crucially, the thing that makes me 351 00:22:04,241 --> 00:22:06,961 Speaker 2: move away from the hip man theory is the fact 352 00:22:06,961 --> 00:22:10,921 Speaker 2: that I went back through the literature when red collar 353 00:22:10,961 --> 00:22:15,481 Speaker 2: criminals hire hitmen, every single example I could find involves 354 00:22:15,881 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 2: the killer bringing their own weapon. It's not impossible for 355 00:22:20,161 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 2: a hit man to come to someone's house and not 356 00:22:22,441 --> 00:22:25,001 Speaker 2: bring a weapon and then stop to drink a wine 357 00:22:25,001 --> 00:22:29,001 Speaker 2: cooler with a victim, but it seems very unlikely. The 358 00:22:29,041 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: only exception to this would be, of course, if the 359 00:22:31,681 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 2: hip man was someone Shannon knew. The hip man theory 360 00:22:35,721 --> 00:22:38,441 Speaker 2: isn't impossible. We have to keep an open mind, but 361 00:22:38,601 --> 00:22:41,281 Speaker 2: in my opinion, with everything that we know, it seems 362 00:22:41,401 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 2: more and more unlikely whether a killer is financially motivated 363 00:22:47,401 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 2: or whether they're motivated by something else like jealousy or rage. 364 00:22:51,361 --> 00:22:53,881 Speaker 2: The reason why they kill is to solve a problem 365 00:22:54,321 --> 00:22:58,801 Speaker 2: because they're losing control over a situation. So if the 366 00:22:58,881 --> 00:23:02,201 Speaker 2: motive for Shannon's murder was financial, we need to look 367 00:23:02,241 --> 00:23:06,561 Speaker 2: at who could have benefited financially from Shannon's death. After 368 00:23:06,601 --> 00:23:10,321 Speaker 2: Shannon died, Penny Stevens, her sister, and a first cousin 369 00:23:10,361 --> 00:23:14,241 Speaker 2: of theirs named John Madwell inherited Shannon's real estate business, 370 00:23:14,441 --> 00:23:18,361 Speaker 2: Annie Bellams. They started running the company together and according 371 00:23:18,441 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 2: to the last information that I found, the company is 372 00:23:21,121 --> 00:23:24,161 Speaker 2: still around as of a few years ago. At lease, 373 00:23:24,281 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 2: the cousin John Madwell was running the business with his wife. 374 00:23:28,241 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 2: I just want to be clear, I don't think for 375 00:23:29,961 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: a second that Penny was involved in her sister's murder. 376 00:23:33,241 --> 00:23:36,201 Speaker 2: I think she comes across as genuinely distraught, someone who 377 00:23:36,241 --> 00:23:39,241 Speaker 2: loved her sister and wants to get justice for her. 378 00:23:39,281 --> 00:23:41,721 Speaker 2: And she's also been the one who has been very 379 00:23:41,801 --> 00:23:45,521 Speaker 2: vocal about keeping her sister's case public eye over the years. 380 00:23:46,121 --> 00:23:50,281 Speaker 2: But I think there's someone we might be overlooking. Was 381 00:23:50,361 --> 00:23:55,241 Speaker 2: there someone who was involved in a business deal with Shannon? Again, 382 00:23:55,321 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 2: this is pure speculation because no one has ever suggested this, 383 00:23:59,121 --> 00:24:01,561 Speaker 2: But could Shannon have found herself caught up in some 384 00:24:01,641 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 2: kind of fraudulent behavior or was someone defrauding her and 385 00:24:05,121 --> 00:24:07,041 Speaker 2: she was threatening to go to law enforcement or to 386 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,241 Speaker 2: sue that person. I'm making this point because right now, 387 00:24:11,441 --> 00:24:14,121 Speaker 2: when you look at the evidence, there's no obvious windfall. 388 00:24:15,201 --> 00:24:17,801 Speaker 2: We need to follow the money on this case. We 389 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,481 Speaker 2: need to see if there were any lawsuits pending exactly 390 00:24:20,521 --> 00:24:23,161 Speaker 2: what was going on in Shannon's business at the time 391 00:24:23,161 --> 00:24:27,241 Speaker 2: of her death. In addition to the money trail, we 392 00:24:27,361 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 2: need to go back again to the stage crime scene, 393 00:24:30,121 --> 00:24:32,401 Speaker 2: which in my opinion, is our biggest clue so far. 394 00:24:34,241 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 2: In a publication called Collision or Collusion Homicide Staged as 395 00:24:38,161 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 2: Car Accidents by Claire Ferguson, which was published in the 396 00:24:40,961 --> 00:24:45,001 Speaker 2: National Library of Health, the author describes sixteen homicides that 397 00:24:45,041 --> 00:24:49,001 Speaker 2: were staged as car accidents. The descriptive analysis examined common 398 00:24:49,041 --> 00:24:55,441 Speaker 2: staging behaviors and victim, offender and offense characteristics. Her findings 399 00:24:55,521 --> 00:25:00,521 Speaker 2: indicate that staged car accidents present differently than real accidents, 400 00:25:00,561 --> 00:25:04,521 Speaker 2: and in a nutshell, every single thing that she mentioned 401 00:25:04,641 --> 00:25:07,481 Speaker 2: sounded like it could have been taken straight out of 402 00:25:07,521 --> 00:25:12,521 Speaker 2: Shannon's case. The article read quote. They often involve single vehicle, 403 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,521 Speaker 2: slow speed downhill scenes with middle aged female victims. Physical 404 00:25:17,601 --> 00:25:20,761 Speaker 2: damage to vehicles is usually minimal, except for fire damage. 405 00:25:21,121 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: Common offender behaviors include transporting the body to a vehicle, 406 00:25:24,801 --> 00:25:28,361 Speaker 2: mutilation of the body, arson, and clean up. The results 407 00:25:28,401 --> 00:25:33,001 Speaker 2: suggest these efforts are often unsophisticated and potentially identifiable to 408 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 2: investigators and physicians. End quote. I think we need to 409 00:25:37,681 --> 00:25:41,681 Speaker 2: focus more on Shannon's private life. We've heard from her sister, 410 00:25:41,881 --> 00:25:45,481 Speaker 2: and her sister said, but Shannon did not tell her 411 00:25:45,521 --> 00:25:48,281 Speaker 2: and her mother a lot about certain aspects of her life. 412 00:25:48,361 --> 00:25:53,561 Speaker 2: That Shannon had been a private person. While investigators were 413 00:25:53,601 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 2: focusing on the car crash scene, the real crime scene, 414 00:25:57,401 --> 00:26:00,321 Speaker 2: in my opinion, was back at Shannon's house. Of course, 415 00:26:00,401 --> 00:26:04,121 Speaker 2: it wasn't properly processed in the beginning as a crime scene. Remember, 416 00:26:04,201 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 2: Penny arrived at the house when the police started their investigation. 417 00:26:08,401 --> 00:26:11,761 Speaker 2: Both Ted and Penny said there were two broken wine 418 00:26:11,761 --> 00:26:14,481 Speaker 2: cooler bottles on the floor of the garage, which were 419 00:26:14,481 --> 00:26:17,281 Speaker 2: totally out of place because Shannon was a neat freak. 420 00:26:18,281 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 2: Her family members said, Shannon never would have left her 421 00:26:20,641 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 2: house looking like that. I wonder if Shannon was seeing someone, 422 00:26:25,241 --> 00:26:27,921 Speaker 2: maybe a current or ex boyfriend, someone who hasn't been 423 00:26:27,961 --> 00:26:30,321 Speaker 2: mentioned as a person of interest at all, and with 424 00:26:30,401 --> 00:26:32,961 Speaker 2: all this family drama, someone who's been flying under the 425 00:26:33,041 --> 00:26:37,481 Speaker 2: radar all this time. Shannon was officially single. But again, 426 00:26:37,881 --> 00:26:40,961 Speaker 2: her sister, Penny told reporters that Shannon was secretive about 427 00:26:40,961 --> 00:26:43,961 Speaker 2: certain aspects of her personal life, that she didn't tell 428 00:26:44,001 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 2: certain things to her or to their mom. So what 429 00:26:47,561 --> 00:26:51,041 Speaker 2: do we know about crime scene staging? Again, we have 430 00:26:51,241 --> 00:26:53,961 Speaker 2: no access to the police case file, so we have 431 00:26:54,041 --> 00:26:57,001 Speaker 2: to go back to my bookshelf. We need to go 432 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,361 Speaker 2: back to what we know about crime scene staging. According 433 00:27:00,361 --> 00:27:03,681 Speaker 2: to the excellent book crime Scene Staging, Dynamics and Homicidal 434 00:27:03,721 --> 00:27:07,801 Speaker 2: Cases by doctor Laura Petler, the most commonly staged crime 435 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 2: scenes are done in cases of domestic violence or intimate 436 00:27:10,641 --> 00:27:16,201 Speaker 2: partner homicides. Crime Scene staging happens basically to serve the 437 00:27:16,281 --> 00:27:19,921 Speaker 2: killer's needs, not the victims. It happens because the victim 438 00:27:19,961 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 2: and the offender had a relationship with each other. We 439 00:27:22,921 --> 00:27:26,201 Speaker 2: can also surmise the killer knew the area. At least 440 00:27:26,201 --> 00:27:27,961 Speaker 2: they knew it well enough to know where there was 441 00:27:28,001 --> 00:27:31,201 Speaker 2: a cliff a place where they could push that escalade off. 442 00:27:32,361 --> 00:27:35,241 Speaker 2: The area where she was found walk or trail is 443 00:27:35,281 --> 00:27:39,001 Speaker 2: over five miles away from Shannon's house, so that means 444 00:27:39,041 --> 00:27:42,521 Speaker 2: whoever did this presumably put Shannon in the car and 445 00:27:42,561 --> 00:27:45,321 Speaker 2: then drove her via to the spot where they pushed 446 00:27:45,321 --> 00:27:49,961 Speaker 2: it off. This is a huge risk. The killer would 447 00:27:49,961 --> 00:27:52,321 Speaker 2: have to feel reasonably confident that they weren't going to 448 00:27:52,321 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 2: pass anybody on the road, or if they did that 449 00:27:54,921 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 2: they wouldn't look out of place in that car. Doctor 450 00:27:58,441 --> 00:28:01,081 Speaker 2: Pettler in her book points out that while there are 451 00:28:01,161 --> 00:28:05,561 Speaker 2: words for crimes like matricide and patricide, there's no real 452 00:28:05,681 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 2: term that covers a person who was intimately involved with 453 00:28:08,681 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 2: the victim but not married to them. She says, she 454 00:28:12,201 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 2: refers to these murders as intimacides someone who was intimately 455 00:28:16,961 --> 00:28:19,641 Speaker 2: involved with the victim, and this can include close friends 456 00:28:19,681 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 2: who are crashing on a couch, or potentially people who 457 00:28:23,281 --> 00:28:25,921 Speaker 2: are dating the victim or sexually involved with them, also 458 00:28:25,961 --> 00:28:30,801 Speaker 2: ex partners. Another study of homicides staged as car accidents 459 00:28:31,321 --> 00:28:35,681 Speaker 2: investigated one hundred and fifteen cases. Now, admittedly this is 460 00:28:35,721 --> 00:28:38,561 Speaker 2: not a huge group and definitely a lot more research 461 00:28:38,681 --> 00:28:42,161 Speaker 2: is needed in this area, but again, they found an 462 00:28:42,201 --> 00:28:45,561 Speaker 2: over eighty percent of the cases is the killer was 463 00:28:45,561 --> 00:28:49,601 Speaker 2: the domestic partner or former domestic partner the victim. In 464 00:28:49,641 --> 00:28:53,161 Speaker 2: a lot of these cases, the killer used blunt force 465 00:28:53,721 --> 00:28:58,081 Speaker 2: and basically beat the victim to death. In Shannon's case, 466 00:28:58,841 --> 00:29:03,401 Speaker 2: police were very quick to classify her death as an 467 00:29:03,441 --> 00:29:05,921 Speaker 2: accident based on the crime scene, and this is a 468 00:29:05,961 --> 00:29:09,521 Speaker 2: common mistake that law enforcement make a lot. They focus 469 00:29:09,561 --> 00:29:13,321 Speaker 2: on crime scene analysis very early on. They need to 470 00:29:13,361 --> 00:29:17,361 Speaker 2: go back to victimology. They need to get more knowledge 471 00:29:17,401 --> 00:29:19,921 Speaker 2: about what's actually going on with the victim at the 472 00:29:19,921 --> 00:29:23,521 Speaker 2: time of death. So when we're trying to figure out 473 00:29:23,561 --> 00:29:25,641 Speaker 2: what happened to Shannon her cut, we need to keep 474 00:29:25,641 --> 00:29:28,841 Speaker 2: an open mind and always be curious. We need to 475 00:29:28,881 --> 00:29:32,641 Speaker 2: ask ourselves why would someone stage the scene that way? 476 00:29:32,721 --> 00:29:35,321 Speaker 2: Because they did it for a reason. Maybe it was 477 00:29:35,361 --> 00:29:37,401 Speaker 2: because they didn't want to be the person who would 478 00:29:37,401 --> 00:29:40,481 Speaker 2: have to report her missing or to find her body. 479 00:29:40,521 --> 00:29:42,361 Speaker 2: Maybe it was because they didn't want to have their 480 00:29:42,401 --> 00:29:46,721 Speaker 2: nine to one one call analyze. So we need to 481 00:29:46,761 --> 00:29:50,641 Speaker 2: know more about who was in Shannon's close circle, maybe 482 00:29:50,721 --> 00:29:54,881 Speaker 2: an ex boyfriend or former lover, maybe someone who, if 483 00:29:54,881 --> 00:29:57,241 Speaker 2: they were the person who found her body, would have 484 00:29:57,281 --> 00:30:00,641 Speaker 2: aroused suspicion with the police. We need to talk to 485 00:30:00,681 --> 00:30:03,801 Speaker 2: the people closest to her, who was Shannon's best friend, 486 00:30:04,361 --> 00:30:07,321 Speaker 2: who was in her circle, who knew about her personal relationships. 487 00:30:07,921 --> 00:30:10,241 Speaker 2: If that person is out there, we haven't heard from 488 00:30:10,281 --> 00:30:15,201 Speaker 2: them yet. Severe County investigators have said this case is 489 00:30:15,241 --> 00:30:19,601 Speaker 2: still open and still actively being investigated. There is still 490 00:30:19,641 --> 00:30:22,761 Speaker 2: a forty five thousand dollars reward in place still available 491 00:30:22,761 --> 00:30:25,001 Speaker 2: for any information that will lead to the arrest and 492 00:30:25,041 --> 00:30:30,001 Speaker 2: conviction of whoever killed Shannon her Cut. Anyone who has information, 493 00:30:30,321 --> 00:30:32,641 Speaker 2: I ask that you please reach out to the Severe 494 00:30:32,681 --> 00:30:36,441 Speaker 2: County Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigation Division at eight sixty five 495 00:30:36,561 --> 00:30:40,921 Speaker 2: four two eight, one, eight nine nine or TBI at 496 00:30:41,001 --> 00:30:46,841 Speaker 2: one eight hundred TBI fined. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is 497 00:30:46,921 --> 00:31:01,081 Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line. If you have a case you'd 498 00:31:01,121 --> 00:31:03,601 Speaker 2: like me and my team to look into, you can 499 00:31:03,641 --> 00:31:05,681 Speaker 2: reach out to us at our Hell and Gone Murder 500 00:31:05,721 --> 00:31:09,441 Speaker 2: Line at six seven, eight seven four four, six one 501 00:31:09,521 --> 00:31:13,081 Speaker 2: four five. Hell and Gone is a production of School 502 00:31:13,081 --> 00:31:16,401 Speaker 2: of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by 503 00:31:16,441 --> 00:31:20,481 Speaker 2: me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Music is 504 00:31:20,521 --> 00:31:24,921 Speaker 2: by Ben Solee and this episode was scored by Miranda Hawkins. 505 00:31:25,081 --> 00:31:31,321 Speaker 2: Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. 506 00:31:31,401 --> 00:31:33,361 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 507 00:31:33,481 --> 00:31:36,041 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 508 00:31:36,081 --> 00:31:40,041 Speaker 2: at our Hell and Gone Murder Line at six seven, eight, seven, four, four, 509 00:31:40,481 --> 00:31:41,721 Speaker 2: six one four or five. 510 00:31:49,761 --> 00:31:50,681 Speaker 1: School of Humans