WEBVTT - The Future of Abortion Access 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:08.200 Hey, everybody, welcome to It could happen here, and it 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:13.119 continues to happen here. UM. I'm Robert Evans. This is 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.560 a podcast about things falling apart and what to do 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.440 after that happens. And we are all currently dealing with 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:25.480 the falling apart of several decades of progress on reproductive justice. UM. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.680 The Supreme Court leaking that UM they are coming for 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.279 Roe v. Wade and UM. Yeah. Today I'm here with 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.400 Christopher Wong and Sharine Lawnie Unice UM and my producers Sophie. 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.640 We have two guests from the bridget Alliance in the 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.120 Midwest Access Coalition. We're going to talk more about what 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.120 they do in a second. Broadly speaking, both seek to 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:51.920 UM attach people who are looking for reproductive healthcare and 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.400 abortion access UM but cannot get it easily in their area, 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:58.760 UM with clinics and the things that they need in 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.680 order to get to the clinics and glue in transit 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.240 and you know, time and hotels whatnot, UM, in order 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.800 to make it easier to get access to that kind 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.560 of healthcare in places like the Midwest, where folks have 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.959 been spending decades making it much more difficult even prior 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:14.800 to this recent ruling to get that kind of healthcare. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:19.640 So I'm gonna let our guests introduce themselves. UM, you've 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:24.000 got the floor. Well, Hi, I am O'Dell Shelley. I 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:28.360 am the executive director at Deep Bridget Alliance, and I'm 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:35.039 gonna introduce my counterpart here. I'm Diana Parker, trusta from 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:39.000 the executive director of the Midwest Access Coalition. And yeah, 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.679 so y'all have been in some ways kind of dealing 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:47.240 with elements of the post row world because obviously, like 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:51.000 you know, we're all focused on this Supreme Court decision 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.800 that's in the pipeline, but um, anti choice activists have 0:01:54.920 --> 0:02:00.280 been working very hard to essentially create a post row 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.680 world in chunks of the United States prior to this point. 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.440 So you all have been kind of dealing with the 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.000 reality that a larger number of people are going to 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.359 be living under for a while, right. Yeah. Yeah, Missouri 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.799 has been able to effectively bad abortion state for years now. 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:21.120 I think, Uh, there's maybe a handful of abortions that 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.800 the one clinic there are able to do because of 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:29.160 all of the trap laws, um, which is the targeted 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:33.359 restrictions for abortion providers. Uh, and the waiting period, so 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:38.920 people have to go to another state Kansas, Iowa or 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:43.200 Illinois Missouri. Um, and we've been helping those books for years, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.000 and UM, I'm gonna guess this. I mean, just because 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.079 you've been living in with this for a while, I'm 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.840 gonna guess the announcement last week did not come as 0:02:54.880 --> 0:03:00.720 a total surprise. The timing of it certainly did, which 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.440 for Diana and I came at the heels of a 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:08.120 conference that we were at thankfully together, which is was 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.160 kind of just pure luck for us so we could 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.960 actually commiserate together. But no, ultimately this is not a 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.880 huge surprise. I mean, I think we're all still waiting 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.680 to see what actually happens in June. That the writing 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.359 has been on the wall for months, in years, if 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.639 not longer. And you know, as you were just pointing 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:33.200 it out, essentially, for organizations like the Bridget Alliance and 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.680 the Midwest Exist Coalition, we have been existing already because 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.600 the protections of ROW are insufficient to actually secure abortion 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.120 access for all in this country. So this has been 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:49.520 our lived experience, and preparing for this moment has um 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.680 It has been a long time coming, and I'm sure 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.680 there have been a number of conversations that have been 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:58.600 going on about what to do and how to prepare 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.440 for this right because the primary change is going to be, 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.080 at least initially until some they make some sort of 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:08.480 federal push that states that have some sort of functional 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.360 access to abortion are going to be flooded with an 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:13.920 even higher number of people in need of care. Um, 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.440 could you kind of walk us through what sort of 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.040 steps have been taken to in order to kind of 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.159 brace for that impact, so to speak. Yeah, So I 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:27.560 think a couple of things. And and the first to 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:29.920 sort of pull back on that for a second is 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.559 to say that part of preparing for what's to come 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.159 has been our orgs in the community that we exist in. 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:41.039 This this incredible expansive landscape of different types of organizations 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.719 that have existed for decades to secure abortion access where 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.920 the laws were insufficient, where um, people were faced with 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:54.400 barriers like income in equity and geographic inequity and the 0:04:54.480 --> 0:05:00.440 unavailability of providers. UM. This network, though, has a existed 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.719 largely unseen, and so a lot of preparing for what 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:09.640 is to come is really embracing our existence, feeling affirmed 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.680 in that and in our value, not shying away from 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.480 the expertise within this community, which is held both by 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.480 volunteers as well as staff UM and so I think 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.960 a lot of the last couple of years has been 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.560 focusing on really trying to harness that expertise and that 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.640 knowledge and compassion and the fact that many of the 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.800 people who are leading a lot of the efforts in 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.440 the reproductive justice movement are people who have had abortions themselves, 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:40.039 which is a enormous um and valuable part of how 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.000 this movement moves and hopefully will continue to center the 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:49.200 people most impacted by the fall of row UM. I think, 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.640 more specifically for Bridget and or its like MAC preparation 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.680 means deepening our relationships with the clinics that we work with. 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.520 They are critical, of course, and their sanity is critical 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:03.599 to abortion access. Is making sure that we have the 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:09.680 sufficient funding to continue to staff train that volunteers systematically 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.200 and mindfully UM and ideally do so in a sustainable 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.360 way so that we're not all overwhelming ourselves with the 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:20.680 sudden surge of need and the sudden surge of impact UM. 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.479 And then you know, for Diana and I even personally, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.320 it means deepening the relationships that us practical support organizations 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:30.840 have with one another, Because no one organization is going 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.120 to be able to help every single abortion seeker who 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.960 will need to travel. It will rely upon really strong 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.840 and transparent collaboration. So those are some of the things 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:53.240 that we've been focusing on. One of the things that 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.279 strikes me as a problem that's going to be, if 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:00.000 not immediate and pretty imminent for y'all, is we've are 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.359 you seen threats and promises from legislators in some states 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.560 to attempt to criminalize leaving a state where abortion is 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:12.040 illegal in order to get access to healthcare? How what? 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.200 What kind of preparation is even possible for that sort 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.520 of world, because it does seem like we're staring down 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.960 the barrel of that. Yeah, I think the only preparation 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.080 we can have right now is to expect that the 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.520 corners will allow them to do that. Um. They're very 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.920 creative now that they've seen a go into effect and 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.560 hold on as the law of the land, even though 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.800 it's in direct violation of federal law. UM scoede us. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.080 The highest code up court of our country, uh is 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.160 the one that has been allowing that to happen. And 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.720 so that sends a huge message to all these UH 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:56.920 force birth legislators that you know, bring us your worst 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.600 take on the law. We will in a way to 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.520 let you keep it. UM. We're we're working with you 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.480 on this and UM you just need to get bolder 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.360 and bolder and see what you can get away with. UH. 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.440 So we can't really predict how they're going to do that, 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:21.200 although Missouri has indicated that they're going to consider an 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:25.520 I guessing as it's fertilized a resident and UM a 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.160 resident of the state, that they have, you know, responsibility 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:34.040 for protecting UM, completely ignoring the fact that it's growing 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:39.360 inside a complete human being that has rights. UM. But 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:43.080 that's that's the latest that I've heard of them figuring 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:48.200 out how to restrict someone's someone's travel UM. But it 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:53.760 would require a significant shift in how we understand constitutional 0:08:53.840 --> 0:09:00.080 law and UM the basis for our legal system, and 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.920 that that seems like something that I don't know, like 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.559 really genuinely seems to be on the table in this moment. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.640 I maybe we have I think it's Louisiana who's trying 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.760 to like part part part of their bill is that 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.080 they like literally it says that they can disobey the 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:19.440 federal government, which we had a civil war about that, 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:24.640 we had we had a nullification crisis about that. We like, so, yeah, 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.600 I guess I'm wondering what your impression is on like 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.360 how far this can go? Like, do do we get 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.120 to the point where states can just like tell the 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:40.400 federal government no? Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what the 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.960 architect of the st law essentially told the part is 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.160 that they don't have jurisdiction and all the laws that 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:51.839 they have passed in the hundreds are actually um enforceable, 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.840 and the federal government has no authority to stop them, 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.760 and uh, they are the fifth district ants. Tootis has 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.440 indicated that maybe you are right, maybe that is the 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:09.720 correct way to interpret our constitution. UM. So I feel 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:15.360 like all of that, all of our decades centuries of 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:20.640 um figuring out what the law means for this country 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.679 is just up in the air, and we may be 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.320 looking at laws now that are just more and more 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:33.559 buzz are um, as long as you know the GOP 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.440 and the right have control over so many bodies of 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:43.160 our governments. You it really is, I can't even fathom. 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:49.400 I don't think we can predict what's going to come honestly, Um, 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:55.400 I mean, I'm also wondering, to put it crudely, will 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.680 legislators in states that are currently committing because we have 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.320 seen an umber states California kind of leading the pack 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:07.360 committing to maintain um access to to to abortion and 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:09.720 other forms of reproductive health care that are being threatened 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.800 right now? Do do you like, do you feel like 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.040 you have a good chance that they are going to 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.199 back you, especially in the event of, you know, laws 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.679 that would potentially open people like you up to criminal 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.760 charges just for trying to support people in getting you know, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.080 reproductive health care outside of their state. Is your question? 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.520 Do you do we think that elected officials that are 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.160 pro choice are going to back us? Yeah? Yeah, yeah? 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.160 Do you like it's entirely possible that we're going to 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.240 see some sort of federal law that not just criminalizes 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.920 abortion or even like prior to that criminalizes aiding people 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.800 in seeking abortion outside of states that have banned it, right, 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:52.000 Like that's on the table. How does that change the landscape? 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.920 Where do you suspect that, like in kind of a 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.839 similar way to have some of these some of the 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.520 legislators and states trying to ban abortion said like we're 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.360 just going to ignore federal law if that contradicts our 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.959 state law. Do you think that, um? Do you think 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.400 that pro choice legislators in states you know, like California 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:10.840 are going to be willing to go to the mat 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.920 and protect you? Or are are we? I mean, yeah, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.720 I guess I I know this is kind of an unknown, 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.440 but I'm kind of these must be conversations that y'all 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:22.920 are having, right, I mean, I really freaking hope that 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.320 they are. And if they're listening, please please prepare to 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.880 do so. And it's really heartening to see states like 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:36.319 California and Oregon, in Illinois and New York and Connecticut 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:42.640 for instance, UM, come up with really clear language around 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.200 their support of not just choice, which was the language 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.720 of the past, but abortion and are saying that and 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.440 are starting to invest in things like abortion funding and 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:58.360 trouble to themselves actually, you know, put forth their own 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.720 efforts to contribute to the people will need to travel 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.800 into their states. UM. And you know, Diana was just 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.720 speaking the other day with a bunch of electing officials 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.160 in Chicago, So I think I think this is also 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.480 why what I was talking about earlier in terms of 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:15.960 orgs like ours, coming coming into the light is so important, 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.240 is that we were going to need those relationships with 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.480 those politicians. We're gonna need them to know us and 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.480 see us and understand that we're a critical part of 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.920 how we're going to serve their constituents and that, yeah, 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.400 we're going to need them to back us. Will they 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:35.600 I can't say definitively, but I really freaking hope so yeah, yeah, 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.040 and hopefully those you know, as deal said just now, 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:43.720 I was UM in a press conference yesterday the city 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.440 the Mayor's office announced this fund to support abortion procedure 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:51.480 funding and practical support. And my hope is with UM 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.760 municipalities will talk to each other and give each other 0:13:54.800 --> 0:14:01.240 the models for doing UH this protective, preemptive UH support 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:06.040 for people traveling to our states for abortion here and 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.000 UM yeah, I'm in with talks with the a c 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.840 l U in Illinois to talk about potential UM bills 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.560 that are floating around to even further protect UH pub 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.320 in this state. Specifically, I know of one that wants 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:26.880 to explicitly protect providers from being extradited or sued or 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:31.480 shut down by prosecutors in other states that want to 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.320 claim that they have to jurisdiction because like, like I said, 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.200 they figured out a way to give residency status to 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.880 fertilized eggs or something. You know, it's just completely fun 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:46.560 that That's kind of what we're staring at, right Like 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.320 that that's that's the thing that you have to be 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.760 concerned with, is like out of state law enforcement. I 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:54.120 don't know, like and and that's the thing. No one 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:55.560 knows what it's going to look like, right Like, we 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.320 know that they have a vested kind of interest already 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.960 and do being parts of this through bounties, which is 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:03.560 kind of like the thing that I'm worried about. Are 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.040 we going to see like out of state law enforcement 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.840 bounty hunting people trying to folks up with reproductive healthcare? 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:11.560 And I guess that's just kind of an unknown at 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.040 this point, but it's right, and it really depends on 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:19.200 like our local protected state juristics, Like how far are 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:24.240 they going to go to protect us from those entities 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:25.920 that are going to try to come in for us? 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:31.040 Um Just just today, one of our staff members tweeted 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.560 about practical support funds and who to support throughout the 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:39.280 country that provides the sort of travel logistics for people 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:45.040 and they got followed by a sheriff department in Missouri. Yeah, 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:50.880 so there are already you know, targeting and surveilling uh, 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:54.840 abortion seekers and the people who support them. Yeah, and 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.080 of course I'm sure that there's a degree to which 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.000 some of these folks are working with um, shall we say, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.600 non state actors in order to like, I know they've 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:08.880 been prepping with that for a while as well. Um, 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.080 what is I mean one of the things that I 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.560 know because I've been having some conversations with friends of 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.120 mine who are and like I guess we could say 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.760 adjacently adjacent organizations to to where y'all work and who 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:22.800 are at in some cases the convention you were at, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:28.560 who are concerned that as providing people with reproductive healthcare 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.920 becomes illegal. Um, there's going to be a lot of 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.760 fair weather friends kind of revealed and I I am interested, like, 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.440 is this a thing that in order to be engaged 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.920 in providing people with reproductive health care you have to 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.320 be willing to engage in illegalism at this point? Like, 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:52.680 is that really where we are? That's really interesting question. Yeah. 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.440 As as a member, like as I go and threes, uh, 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:03.359 you know, looked at our state governments are federal governments. 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:08.840 We can't engage in anything that's legal. Um. But people 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.520 have forever on their own dumb things that the state 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:17.560 has considered illegal in order to have bodily autonomy. UM. 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.280 There are people who can't afford it. There are people 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.199 who are just so far from the nearest clinic that 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.560 they can't even fathom how to make that trip. Uh. 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:31.000 They're undocumented folks. Uh. There are people near the borders 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:36.560 that can't even physically move past a border checkpoint because 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.520 they're just trapped there and can't get care um in 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.320 other parts of their state where it's available. UM. So 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.360 there that that will be a thing. I think that 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:54.520 is going to increase, because the need will not decrease. UM. 0:17:54.680 --> 0:18:00.520 And I do not like my organization and we can't 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.119 really see anything about that. But you know, personally, I'm like, 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:09.760 you do whatever it takes to live your life and thrive. UM. 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:14.760 Laws are made up especially now. Yeah, that is nice 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.360 to hear because I, you know, I try to keep 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:23.639 abreast of the sides of this fight that are you know, 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:26.600 working through five O one sees and and the like 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:30.240 and engaging in electoralism. The people who are you know, 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:34.320 doing stuff like trying to figure out ways to um 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.360 provide access to like miso pills and whatnot to people, UM, 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:50.520 because that's just where we are. We've talked about the 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.919 degree to which you guys have already been living in 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.560 some people's future, you know, just because of the specific 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.840 nature of what your organizations have been doing, UM, and 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:02.800 the degree to which you know you knew some of 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.240 this is coming. What has surprised you outside of just 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.160 like the fact that it got leaked ahead of time 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:09.959 about kind of what we've seen in the last weekend 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:19.000 change mm hmmm mm hmm. I think I am. I'm 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:24.000 not so much surprised by the response from folks. UM. 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:30.040 I'm a little frustrated that it took this moment for 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:34.360 people to realize what has been happening in this country 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:39.360 for the past decade, few decades. Honestly, this is this 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.760 is a very long game, uh for the antis. But 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:46.000 ever since Trump was put into office and started just 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:51.280 flooding the federal courts with very young, very anti conservative 0:19:51.359 --> 0:20:00.159 judges UM and SPA was a huge flag. UM. But 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:07.240 I think I was surprised that there was a maths 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.840 amount of people that we're going to step up when 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:16.119 the decision came out. Um, it's it gives me hope. 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.520 I hope it's sustained for the many many years we're 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:23.840 going to need uh practical support and abortion funds while 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:30.879 we fight for legal rights. Um. Yeah, so I guess 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:37.360 the surprise is a mixed it's a bad for me. Yeah, 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.640 I was gonna say something similar that I think I've 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:45.959 been pleasantly surprised at how well educated and informed a 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:51.200 lot of our supporters and newer supporters are about as 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.920 Diana mentioned, the existence of abortion funds and practical support organizations. 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.879 That practical support is even being talked about is huge. 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.960 We couldn't get this conversation and into the media a 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.600 couple of years ago. So like, this is really remarkable 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.040 and important. But what's more, there seems to be also 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.520 like a understanding of why we have to exist. Um, 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.080 it doesn't seem to be shocking people quite as much 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:17.320 of but there certainly are still tons of people who 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.520 are shocked by this. But for many, they're not shocked 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:25.240 that for some abortion has simply been inaccessible and what 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.960 those reasons are. Um, and you know that's things obviously 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:33.040 to a lot of the really hard, important conversations that 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:35.080 have been had over the last couple of years about 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.879 racial justice. And I think that, you know, it's a 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.560 silver lining for sure, but I'm I'm grateful to find 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:44.760 that the depth of the conversations is there now and 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.080 hopefully that means that the commitment is going to be 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.760 sustained in long term, because this is a little bit 0:21:50.760 --> 0:21:53.040 of deja vu for us in the sense that we've 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:57.879 had little moments like these ever since our organizations existed. Um, 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:00.720 when a single band goes into place or threatened to 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:05.320 go into place, this like swell occurs using my hands 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:07.320 a lot, which obviously can't see if you're listening to 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.920 me right now, So I'm gonna put my hands down, um, 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.879 and you know, and that and that brings out a 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.000 lot of really incredible donors and a lot of really 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:19.919 incredible offers for volunteers, and and then they tend to 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:24.000 go away. Um. And especially when when Biden was you know, elected, 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:26.720 and there was definitely this like moment where everyone was like, Okay, 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.480 we're cool, right, which this guy hasn't said the word abortion, 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:34.320 but we're still fine. And we're not We're like the 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:40.359 furthest from fine. So yeah, again, like pleasantly surprised that 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:46.600 people seem to have, um a sense of why we're here. Yeah, 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.159 I just wanted to bring up the website. Did Biden 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:58.199 say abortion yet or it just like it's so unfortunately 0:22:58.280 --> 0:23:02.080 hilarious to me, um, but I've is really glad it exists. Um. 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:06.639 And then they someone reached out to the someone in 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.800 the Biden administration to make a comment on this when 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:15.280 the when the the draft was leaked, and they said, well, 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:17.439 we tweeted it or like whatever it's and it's like 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:19.199 it's he said it once in a tweet and like 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:22.159 once in like a statement or something. So I just 0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:23.880 think it's there, you go. I don't know what more 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:25.920 we want, but like, I just think it's important to 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.959 what you were saying earlier. Um, how legislators in Oregon 0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:32.800 or California, like it's so important they're saying the word abortion, 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:35.480 not just pro choice, because I think a lot of 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:37.720 people are a lot of people are scared about that 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:39.840 word for some reason, or it sounds scary to them 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.560 if they're not that educated about what pro choice means 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.840 or what abortion means. So I think I have a 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:50.399 little bit more hope seeing more people even saying that word, UM, 0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:56.760 because it yeah, yeah, I think the statistics is something 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:00.200 like the antis have been using the word abortion three 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.480 times as much as we have, and that is why 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:07.800 it's so stigmatized and difficult to talk about. And I 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:10.880 definitely try to encourage people to say the word abortion, 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:14.680 to talk about abortion with everyone they know. Uh, just 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.320 so we can stop hiding. I guess kind of the 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:18.879 last thing I'd like to ask, and we can we 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:21.240 can cut this bit if this winds up not being 0:24:21.320 --> 0:24:24.480 something you want to get into. But have you have 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:29.160 you felt an additional need to worry about given how 0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:34.280 public you are in your advocacy personal protection UM, as 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:37.080 things kind of have heated up, you know, we were 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:41.159 we were recently at the conference that you mentioned before, UM, 0:24:41.760 --> 0:24:48.560 and it definitely with all of my colleagues in one place, 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.400 it definitely made me feel a little vulnerable for myself 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:55.159 and them. But honestly, the people who are targeted or 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:59.000 the providers by far UM, I'm not worried about my 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:02.880 physical safety. UM. I'm worried about the physical safety over 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:07.080 of our providers and the fact that our government is 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:15.000 responding to peaceful protesters outside kavanas Um House and talking 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:18.800 and and asked for I think Susan Collins on the 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:28.040 sidewalk outside her residents results in legislation being media immediately, 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.679 they all somehow got together for once in their lives 0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:38.919 to do something about the terrorists who chalked sidewalks by 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:47.400 legislators home. Um uh is it's it's really demoralizing. Um, 0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:54.400 because we have our providers have seen violence and um yeah, 0:25:54.440 --> 0:26:01.840 they've seen violence every day, murders, ASCID attacks, bombings. Um. Yeah, 0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:03.840 Chris Sharene, do you have anything else you wanted to 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:06.359 get into. Yeah, I wanted to ask one thing, so, 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:10.840 you know, Okay, seeing this sort of increasing fectlessness or 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:15.960 politicians even by their standards, and you know, their response 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:18.400