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Speaker 1: Countdown with Keith Olderman is a production of iHeartRadio. The

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Speaker 1: story of the reaction to Justice meyr Sean's stark warning

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Speaker 1: to Trump that he may put him in jail the

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Speaker 1: next time he violates the gag order, and the story

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Speaker 1: of the defense of and acceptance of Christy Nome inside

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Speaker 1: the Trump cult for having murdered her dog and threatening

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Speaker 1: President Biden's dog. Those are actually the same story. The

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Speaker 1: story is the point is killing. They are about one

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Speaker 1: thing at their core. Gnome and Trump and Maga and

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Speaker 1: Trump's Supreme Court justices and his slaves inside the House

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Speaker 1: and the Senate believe they have a right to kill. Today,

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Speaker 1: they have that right to kill their dogs. Tomorrow it's

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Speaker 1: your dog. Then it's the judge, the day after that,

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Speaker 1: it's all the immigrants. Finally, it will be anything and anybody.

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Speaker 1: Do not mistake them, Do not mistake what this is

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Speaker 1: really about. Do not forget that even as chilling a

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Speaker 1: phrase as political violence is itself just a euphemism. Political

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Speaker 1: violence is murder, individual murder, mass murder, or if the

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Speaker 1: rest of us are lucky, just attempted murder or threatened murder.

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Speaker 1: Every Trump attack, on every witness, on every judge, on

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Speaker 1: every prosecutor, on every opponent, on every institution, every stochastic

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Speaker 1: call to end this, every reference to bedlam, every meme

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Speaker 1: of the President of the United States bound and gagged,

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Speaker 1: every Tim Scott refusing to honor the outcome of an election,

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Speaker 1: every reference to patriots and deep states and rigged elections,

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Speaker 1: and I am your retribution. They all have the unspoken

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Speaker 1: second half to them. Those who try to stop us

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Speaker 1: will do what we say, or we will kill them.

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Speaker 1: One third of Trump supporters who had heard about Gnome

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Speaker 1: killing her dog told a yuga of poll that it

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Speaker 1: was acceptable. Twenty nine percent weren't sure, so the total

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Speaker 1: of Trump voters who would not criticize Gnome murdering a

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Speaker 1: puppy was six out of ten. Nationwide, fifteen percent of

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Speaker 1: Americans thought it was acceptable. Four percent of Biden voters

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Speaker 1: thought it was acceptable. Six out of ten Trump cultists

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Speaker 1: support Christy Nomes shooting her dog in the face or

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Speaker 1: are not sure they would criticize her for it, and

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Speaker 1: she has now tripled down on doing this. Politico reports

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Speaker 1: that originally she included her boast about killing her puppy

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Speaker 1: in her first book, which was published two years ago.

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Speaker 1: But the editors talked her out of it. Yesterday she

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Speaker 1: went on CBS again. She lied on CBS Sunday morning,

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Speaker 1: so naturally they put her back on CBS Monday morning.

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Speaker 1: Now she's claimed she was a dog trainer, so she

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Speaker 1: knew what she was doing, and she intimated that she

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Speaker 1: would kill Joe Biden's dog commander. And she lied about

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Speaker 1: meeting Kim Jong un again, and coyly lied that she

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Speaker 1: was taking the story out of the book because of

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Speaker 1: some kind of security concern, when clearly it was just

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Speaker 1: the fact that she could not tell the difference between

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Speaker 1: Kim Jong un and Molly Jong Fast And by the way,

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Speaker 1: the Kim jong Un lie is three dimensional. Lying Nome says, quote,

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Speaker 1: I should not have put that anecdote in the book unquote,

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Speaker 1: but also she says she didn't know it was in

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Speaker 1: the book quote when I became aware of that, we

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Speaker 1: changed the content, but also confirms it is in the

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Speaker 1: audio book, which she herself narrated, meaning when she became

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Speaker 1: aware it was in the book, even though she shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have put it in the book, she did not take

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Speaker 1: it out of the book. And I'll stop here because

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of gravel pits she could drag

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Speaker 1: me into. There are no admissions of mistakes or lies,

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Speaker 1: or stupidity, or, in Christy Noam's case, subhuman sadism towards animals.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to tell this story. They stopped her from

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Speaker 1: telling the story two years ago. She wanted to put

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Speaker 1: this into Trump's mind and to do the minds such

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Speaker 1: as they are of Trump's supporters. She wants this thought.

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Speaker 1: Christy Nome is willing to kill. And back to Trump

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Speaker 1: and Justice Merschawn's warning of jail time, which is a

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Speaker 1: little less strong than being reported, Mershawn actually caveated it.

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Speaker 1: He wrote, this court cannot find beyond a reasonable doubt

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Speaker 1: that defendants statements referenced in Exhibits E and G were

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Speaker 1: not protected speech made in response to political attacks by

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Speaker 1: Michael Cohen. Quote. So when Trump cannot stop himself next time,

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Speaker 1: my over under is tomorrow, by the way, because it's

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Speaker 1: the day off. Each word of what he writes or

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Speaker 1: posts or says, each word will be parsed and litigated literally,

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Speaker 1: rather than them simply sending a cop car over to

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Speaker 1: Trump Tower to drag him off. And yes, that photo

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Speaker 1: of him in court where it looks like he's farting,

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Speaker 1: and there are two officers behind him, and the one

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Speaker 1: on the left is wearing a mask like she knew

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Speaker 1: it was coming. It's legit. Also, Trump says he'll happily

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Speaker 1: go to jail. Then is even more the gag order?

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Speaker 1: Uh huh? Where I can't. Basically I have to watch

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Speaker 1: every word. I tell you people you're watching watching A

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Speaker 1: simple question. I'd like to give it, but I can't

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Speaker 1: talk about. No, you can't talk at all. You're not

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Speaker 1: talking now a gag order and say you'll go to

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Speaker 1: jail if you violate it. You bet, And frankly, you

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Speaker 1: know what. Our constitution is much more important than jail

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Speaker 1: and studying it close. I'll do that sacrifice. Ay day, boyo,

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Speaker 1: if you will go to jail, I will carry you

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Speaker 1: there on my back. With Trump's silence for the moment,

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Speaker 1: others have taken up the stochastic terrorism. Trump has had

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Speaker 1: to set down Congressman Clay Higgins, the slurring ghost bus

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Speaker 1: clown who has staggered in shame in and out of

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Speaker 1: four different Louisiana police departments. Hey, judge ass hat, he

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Speaker 1: posted over a picture of justice Jan Marshawn, we are

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Speaker 1: in contempt of your court. We find your court abhorrent.

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Speaker 1: You and your entire anti American elitist ilk are repulsive

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Speaker 1: to patriot Americans. Signed we the people, anti American elitist

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Speaker 1: ilk Patriot Americans. These are more euphemisms. Merschaan was born

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Speaker 1: in the Nation of Columbia. He grew up in New York.

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Speaker 1: He is the first member of his family to go

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Speaker 1: to college at Baruch and then at Hofstra Law. He

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Speaker 1: is an American success story. Higgins, who washed out of

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Speaker 1: Louisiana State, is an American failure story. Therefore, Higgins's response,

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Speaker 1: like Trump's, is a threat of violence, violence coded in

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Speaker 1: plausible deniability. The irony in this, of course, is that

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Speaker 1: in the trial so far, Trump has had absolutely no

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Speaker 1: plausible deniability. He has left a trail a mile wide.

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Speaker 1: His former company comptroller, Jeffrey mcconne now testifies that Trump

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Speaker 1: directed him to pay a Michael Cohen a bonus, not

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Speaker 1: just legal fees, as Trump claimed, as has been central

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Speaker 1: to his defense. There was even a document instructing payments

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Speaker 1: to Cohen's shell company of one hundred and thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: and thirty five dollars exactly how much Stormy Daniels ended

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Speaker 1: up with with Alan Weiselberg's handwritten notation on it that

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Speaker 1: that one hundred and thirty thousand and thirty five dollars

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Speaker 1: was specifically four Stormy Daniels. Trump is incredibly guilty, so

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Speaker 1: guilty that any other defendant would be trying to cut

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Speaker 1: a deal. He won't. You can't because this is life

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Speaker 1: and death for him. This is why he is hallucinating

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Speaker 1: that there are thousands of Trump protesters out there being

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Speaker 1: held at bay by New York cops just blocks away.

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Speaker 1: You will recall that on April twenty second, he wrote

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Speaker 1: that his imaginary hordes should be quote allowed to protest

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Speaker 1: at the front steps of courthouses all over the country,

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Speaker 1: rally behind MAGA, save our country. The only thing you

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Speaker 1: have to fear is fear itself. It is the rhetoric

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Speaker 1: of January sixth all over again. And if he escalates

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Speaker 1: to actually urging them to attack the courthouse, don't be surprised.

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Speaker 1: He's getting desperate. And that is after all, the subtext

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Speaker 1: to what he is saying anyway, and what Clay Higgins

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Speaker 1: is saying, and what Christine Nome is saying and has done.

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Speaker 1: Do not mistake what we are dealing with do not

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Speaker 1: mistake want in this equation Christine Nome represents, and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: do not mistake what you and I represent. And then

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Speaker 1: there is what the New York Times represents right now

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Speaker 1: that is nothing maybe wordle complete dereliction of duty by

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Speaker 1: the New York Times. Quote. When you are a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: Trump said at a fundraiser at Merrik Crapshack last Saturday,

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Speaker 1: you start off essentially at forty percent of the vote

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Speaker 1: because you have civil service, you have the unions, and

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Speaker 1: you have welfare. They get welfare to vote, and then

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Speaker 1: they cheat on top of that, they cheat, he said

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Speaker 1: of Biden and the Democrats, quoting Trump again, these people

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Speaker 1: are running a gestapo administration. Unquote, Mister Trump told donors

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Speaker 1: who attended the event at marri Lago, his private club

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Speaker 1: in Palm Beach, Florida, according to an audio recording obtained

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Speaker 1: by The New York Times unquote an audio recording obtained

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Speaker 1: by the New York Times. Where is this recording? Why

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Speaker 1: has this recording not been made public by The New

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Speaker 1: York Times. Mother Jones magazine made public the recording of

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Speaker 1: min Romney saying of Democratic voters in essence the same thing,

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Speaker 1: only pegging the percentage higher. There are forty seven percent

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Speaker 1: who are with Obama, who are dependent upon government. They

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Speaker 1: will vote for this president no matter what. That tape

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Speaker 1: from twenty twelve that was made public and in retrospect,

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Speaker 1: the day it was made public September seventeenth, twenty twelve,

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Speaker 1: that was the last day Mitt Romney had any chance

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Speaker 1: of being elected president. And the Free Beacon did not

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Speaker 1: hesitate to publish a secret recording of Hillary Clinton distancing

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Speaker 1: herself from the progressive left. In twenty sixteen, the Obama

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Speaker 1: Reverend Right recordings, they were published, The Obama Budget Negotiation's

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Speaker 1: secret tape put on the air by CBS News, The

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Speaker 1: cell phone video of Obama about clinging to guns or

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Speaker 1: religion published by the Huffington Post. Where is the audio

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Speaker 1: recording of Trump a recording you clearly state, you boast

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Speaker 1: that you have up to New York Times. Where is

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Speaker 1: the audio of Trump himself saying Democrats use welfare to

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Speaker 1: buy forty percent of the vote. They get welfare to vote,

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Speaker 1: and then they cheat on top of that, when we

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Speaker 1: all know what welfare is a euphemism for among the

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Speaker 1: racist Republicans. Where is that recording and why have you

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Speaker 1: chosen not to release it? If you are having any

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Speaker 1: doubts about the doubts about the New York Times. The

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Speaker 1: paper is now providing new evidence every third day or

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Speaker 1: so that its leaders have lost all contact with reality,

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Speaker 1: and they think still that this is just another election.

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Speaker 1: And worse yet, their leaders think they are being attacked

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Speaker 1: for being even handed, when in fact they are being

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Speaker 1: attacked for leaning over so far backwards to not appear

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Speaker 1: pro democratic that they have fallen flat on their faces.

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Speaker 1: And the newest face plant is from editor in chief

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Speaker 1: Joe Khan. Ben Smith of Semaphore News interviewed him, and

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Speaker 1: as Cohn talked and as Smith published, neither seemed to

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Speaker 1: realize that between them they were garrotting the times credibility.

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Speaker 1: Smith says he asked con quote Dan Pfeiffer, who used

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Speaker 1: to work for Barack Obama, recently wrote to the Times,

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Speaker 1: they do not see their job as saving democracy or

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Speaker 1: stopping an authoritarian from taking power. Why don't you see

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Speaker 1: your job as we've got to stop Trump? What about

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Speaker 1: your job doesn't let you think that way? Joe Cohn

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Speaker 1: then destroyed not only himself but his own paper. Good

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Speaker 1: Media is the fourth Estate it's another pillar of democracy.

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Speaker 1: One of the absolute necessities of democracy is having a

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Speaker 1: free and fair and open election where people can compete

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Speaker 1: for votes. And the role of the news media in

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Speaker 1: that environment is not to skew your coverage towards one

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Speaker 1: candidate or the other, but just to provide very good,

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Speaker 1: hard hitting, well rounded coverage of both candidates. If I'm right,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what CON's predecessor said during the Lincoln McClellan

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Speaker 1: election of eighteen sixty four. His predecessor, you know, when

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Speaker 1: the founder of The Times, Henry Raymond, was also chairman

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Speaker 1: of the Republican Party, in one of Abraham Lincoln's mentors,

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Speaker 1: we've never taken any sides of oh yeah, Lincoln. Wait,

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Speaker 1: this gets worse, Joe Con again, to say that the

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Speaker 1: threats of democracy are so great that the media is

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Speaker 1: going to abandon its central role as a source of

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Speaker 1: impartial information to help people vote. That's essentially saying that

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Speaker 1: the news media should become a propaganda arm for a

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Speaker 1: single candidate because we prefer that candidate's agenda. It's our

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Speaker 1: job to cover the full range of issues that people

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Speaker 1: have at the moment. Democracy is one of them, but

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Speaker 1: it's not the top one. Immigration happens to be the top,

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Speaker 1: and the economy and inflation is the second. Should we

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Speaker 1: stop covering those things because they're favorable to Trump? Again?

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Speaker 1: The editor in chief of The New York Times lives

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Speaker 1: in a world dictated by Fox News and populated entirely

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Speaker 1: by straw men, who said, don't cover any of that,

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Speaker 1: who said, become a propaganda army. We're asking why you've

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Speaker 1: tried to equate Biden's age with you know, Trump's insanity

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Speaker 1: and indictments and desire to become a dictator. Quote. There

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Speaker 1: are people out there in the world who may decide,

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Speaker 1: based on their democratic rights, to elect Donald Trump as president.

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Speaker 1: It is not the job of the news media to

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Speaker 1: prevent that from happening. Unquote, Okay, Sarah sirah right, Joe

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Speaker 1: con I mean, why should you worry about what happens

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Speaker 1: if an increasingly unstable, revenge driven psychopath assumes the full

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Speaker 1: power of the American state. It's not like you guys

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Speaker 1: live in America on Sunday, as if they had sat

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Speaker 1: around for a week trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: make this worse. CON's paper published a piece by Peter

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Speaker 1: Baker headlined gallows humor and talk of escape. Trump's possible

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Speaker 1: return Rattle's capital. At Washington dinner parties, dark jokes abound

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Speaker 1: about where to go into exile if the former president

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Speaker 1: reclaims the White House. It's not bad enough that The

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Speaker 1: Times is joking around about the country teetering on a

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Speaker 1: precipice like the one Germany found itself in in nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty two. But starting in paragraph twelve of this jovial

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Speaker 1: piece by that well known wit Peter Baker, it switched

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Speaker 1: the both sides machine on full blast. There are quotes

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Speaker 1: in there from a trumpist who explained that all of

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Speaker 1: this was just Trump derangement syndrome. And rejoice that quote.

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Speaker 1: The chattering class is freaking out. The Times is on

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Speaker 1: quite a role as it calmly ignores the fact that

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Speaker 1: Trump would try to shut it down or take over

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Speaker 1: the publishing of it, or decide what goes in and

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Speaker 1: what can't go in anymore, or jail Joe con or

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Speaker 1: kill the publisher. Ag Sealzberger. I mean, what, evs least

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Speaker 1: we have our journalistic principles here in the concentration camp.

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Speaker 1: Not enough. Just put these other two stories together. Those

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Speaker 1: evil protesting students at Columbia. Did you know they refused

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Speaker 1: to talk to conservative shill Peggy Noonan when she went

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Speaker 1: up there to write a column. So a key writer

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Speaker 1: from the New York Times defended Peggy Noonan. And the

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Speaker 1: publisher of the Times is still trying to rationalize his

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Speaker 1: vendetta against President Biden by insisting there is no vendetta.

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Speaker 1: It's just punishing Biden because he won't do an interview

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Speaker 1: with the Times. But the Times is only punishing him

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Speaker 1: on behalf of humanity, not something personal and selfish like

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Speaker 1: on behalf of the Times the publisher first, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll get to Peggy Noonon. You will remember that Politico

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Speaker 1: reported that it was ag Selzberger, who, honked off by

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Speaker 1: Biden's refusal to sit down with The Times, demanded that

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Speaker 1: his paper begin to do stories about Biden's age. The

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Speaker 1: Times denied there was any linkage here publishing a statement

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Speaker 1: dripping with umbrage and offense publishing a statement on its website.

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Speaker 1: The statement was anonymous yay journalism, yay principles. Then last Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: Salzburger gave an interview to The Washington Post, part of

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Speaker 1: which The Washington Post published Friday along with data showing

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Speaker 1: that at comparable stages of their first terms, Biden has

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Speaker 1: done fewer sit down interviews than his six predecessors. He's

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Speaker 1: twenty six behind George W. Bush. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: by the time of the next inauguration, Biden will have

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Speaker 1: moved into first place with the most informal question and

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Speaker 1: answer interviews with the media since nineteen eighty one. Right now,

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Speaker 1: he's done four hundred and twenty two more of them

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Speaker 1: than Ronald Reagan did, and four hundred and seventy two

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Speaker 1: more than Barack Obama did. But Biden has not done

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Speaker 1: one with The Times or the Washington Post. And nothing

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Speaker 1: in this world is more self important than the Washington

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Speaker 1: Post except for the New York Time. I think this

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Speaker 1: is a norm that matters, the Times publisher told the Post,

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Speaker 1: and all our experience shows that when norms like this erode,

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Speaker 1: especially a norm as uncomfortable as the discipline of answering

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Speaker 1: probing questions from independent journalists, they rarely return. Of course,

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Speaker 1: ag Sealzburger didn't mention which norms like this had eroded

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Speaker 1: and then vanished forever, and the postwriter Eric Wemple does

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Speaker 1: not seem to have asked him which norms he meant.

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Speaker 1: But look, if the Times and the Posts say norms

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Speaker 1: are eroding, then god damn it, norms are eroding. If

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Speaker 1: you don't like the New York Times coverage, don't give

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Speaker 1: us an interview, Salzburger continues. But give an interview to

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post, which you have refused to sit down with,

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Speaker 1: Give an interview to the Wall Street Journal, which you

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Speaker 1: have refused to sit down with, give an interview to Reuter's,

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Speaker 1: which you have refused to sit down with. And if

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Speaker 1: you don't like the coverage of any of those organizations,

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Speaker 1: I think that raises a broader question of whether you

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Speaker 1: just want to avoid press scrutiny unquote, because as we

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Speaker 1: all know, the press consists of just those four organizations Times, Post,

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Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, Reuters the edge of the universe, nothing

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Speaker 1: over there except maybe some of the dragons that live

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Speaker 1: out there in the ether. Just those four news organizations

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Speaker 1: in the whole entirety of the universe, The Times, The Post,

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Speaker 1: The Journal, and Reuters. This is especially true for today's

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Speaker 1: voters and younger Americans in a time when, for better

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Speaker 1: or worse, the media is getting more diverse and more

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Speaker 1: diffuse by the hour, and you can do a podcast

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Speaker 1: in your apartment entirely by yourself and get a daily

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Speaker 1: audience about a third the size of a primetime show

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Speaker 1: on CNN. And presidents and politicians and their press people

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Speaker 1: are wondering why they should use their guys' time to

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Speaker 1: put them on platforms that already cover his every move

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Speaker 1: When undecided or low info voters are to be found

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Speaker 1: on TikTok. We're listening to satellite radio, or watching late

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Speaker 1: night talk shows, or just watching viral clips as they

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Speaker 1: continue on a path to living their entire lives without

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Speaker 1: ever consuming anything from The Times, the Post, the Journal,

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Speaker 1: and Reuters combined, and Reuters really Reuters was your fourth

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Speaker 1: best option, not even the Boston Globe Reuters. I think

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Speaker 1: our industry should speak out about this, Sealzburger Whind. Whereupon

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Speaker 1: mister Wimple of The Post asked The Post, the Journal,

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Speaker 1: Reuters and everybody else to complain, and found none of

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Speaker 1: them were willing to. First, he said their reticence had

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Speaker 1: quote many lame justifications o'blakely. Then he complained for them,

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Speaker 1: quoting statistics that show that of Biden's first fifty two

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Speaker 1: television interviews as president. Eighteen of them were within the

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Speaker 1: NBC Universal family, though only one of them was with

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Speaker 1: NBC Nightly News. The day that the last newspaper is printed,

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Speaker 1: somebody working for it will insist that it's just a

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Speaker 1: phase and newspapers will be back soon. Because the only

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Speaker 1: thing that has not been damaged in the swarm of

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Speaker 1: media earthquakes of the last three decades and more is

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Speaker 1: the ego inside the boardrooms of the big newspapers and

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Speaker 1: inside NBC Nightly News headquarters, by the way, because what's

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Speaker 1: unspoken here is the Times is news, and the Washington

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Speaker 1: Post is news, and the Wall Street Journal is news,

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Speaker 1: and everybody else is not news. Maybe NBC Nightly News

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Speaker 1: is news. But they only got one of Biden's eighteen

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Speaker 1: NBC interviews. You know what's not news That Today's show's

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Speaker 1: not news. They got six interviews. Why did they get

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Speaker 1: six interviews? They're not news. Newspapers have never gotten over

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Speaker 1: the idea that anybody else was legit, at least not

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Speaker 1: half as legit as they are. Newspapers managed to keep

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Speaker 1: news off radio for the first decade or so of radio.

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Speaker 1: Then they managed to limit how much news the networks

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Speaker 1: in the stations could carry That lasted till nearly World

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Speaker 1: War Two. They tried to monopolize physical space at conventions,

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Speaker 1: at inaugurations and ballparks. Hell the Baseball Writers Association of America,

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Speaker 1: which decides all the most valuable players and the other awards,

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Speaker 1: and most of the Hall of famers, they did not

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Speaker 1: even admit writers from websites until two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: and still they have never had a radio or television

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Speaker 1: broadcaster in their ranks. Radio, according to the newspapers, was

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Speaker 1: just a phase. All news radio that certainly was just

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Speaker 1: a phase. Television was just a phase. Cable was just

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Speaker 1: a phase. All news cable was just a phase. The

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Speaker 1: Internet was just a phase. If you haven't given The

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Speaker 1: New York Times a one on one, you're not really president,

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Speaker 1: are you. That's the norm that matters at all. Experience

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Speaker 1: shows that when norms like that he rode, something bad

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Speaker 1: will happen. The publisher of the New York Times knows

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Speaker 1: this because he read it in The New York Times.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing. Look, if there is anything else the last

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Speaker 1: decade in this country has taught us, it is that

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Speaker 1: our news media has failed utterly, and the failure has

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Speaker 1: been led by the New York Times, the Washington Post,

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Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, and writers. Some of that has

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Speaker 1: been external, driven by market forces, but much of it

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Speaker 1: has been because a lot of newspaper journalism, especially but

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Speaker 1: generally news media, a lot of it just plain sucks,

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Speaker 1: and it's unimaginative, and it has no ability to cover

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Speaker 1: something that has never covered before. And it is populated

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Speaker 1: by people who are so thin skinned that when an

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Speaker 1: effort is made by one group of politicians to work

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Speaker 1: the refs, they the newspapers especially, they decide that everything

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Speaker 1: now has to be presented as both sides is drivel

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Speaker 1: to minimize the real threat in this country, reporters and

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Speaker 1: editors getting nasty phone calls and emails and undamaged. Through

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Speaker 1: all of this is the newspaper's conviction, their bone marrow

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Speaker 1: deep confidence that you must talk to them, maybe OK,

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Speaker 1: maybe not only them, but them first, and when there

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Speaker 1: is a choice of them and nobody else. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, failure to talk to them is why journalism

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Speaker 1: is in trouble. Not corporate greed, nor bad editors, nor

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Speaker 1: runaway entitlement and self martyrdom among publishers, all news industry

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Speaker 1: is the way it is today because Joe Biden has

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Speaker 1: not done a sit down interview with Reuters. And that's

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Speaker 1: where those protests at Columbia and Peggy Noonan fold into this.

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Speaker 1: Peggy Noonan, the former Reagan speechwriter who has somehow been

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Speaker 1: mistaken for a journalist these last forty years, wrote this

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Speaker 1: for The Wall Street Journal. Quote. I was on a

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Speaker 1: bench taking notes as a group of young women, all

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Speaker 1: in sunglasses masks walked by friends. Please come say hello

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Speaker 1: and tell me what you think. I called. They marched past,

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Speaker 1: not making eye contact save one, a beautiful girl of

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Speaker 1: about twenty. I'm not trained, she said, which is what

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Speaker 1: they're instructed to say to corporate media representatives who will

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Speaker 1: twist your words. I'm barely trained. You're safe, I called,

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Speaker 1: And she laughed and half halted, but her friends gave

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Speaker 1: her a look and she conformed unquote. I'll skip for

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Speaker 1: the most part the fact that right in that one paragraph,

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Speaker 1: Peggy Noonan revealed that she actually admitted to lying to

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Speaker 1: that twenty year old woman by claiming her working as

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Speaker 1: a writer for CBS Radio w EEI in Boston, three

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Speaker 1: years at the White House, then thirty eight years at ABCC,

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Speaker 1: and an NBC in the Wall Street Journal. The editorial

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Speaker 1: page of the Wall Street Journal, no less that anybody

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Speaker 1: with a resume that skinny is quote barely trained. I'm

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Speaker 1: not trained. I've just been doing this for six times

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Speaker 1: your lifetime. My interest in this quote is that it

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Speaker 1: was then screenshotted and tweeted out by Peter Baker of

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Speaker 1: the New York Times. When we last saw mister Baker,

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Speaker 1: he was writing an end of the world apocalyptic story

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Speaker 1: about where everybody was gonna move to if Trump became president,

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Speaker 1: while writing everything he possibly write to make sure that

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Speaker 1: Trump becomes president. And before that, mister Baker was quoted

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Speaker 1: in a story countering the idea that publisher Sealzburger in

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Speaker 1: The Times were really avenging themselves against Biden because he

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Speaker 1: had had the nerve to not talk to them. I've

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Speaker 1: never heard Ag say anything like that, and can't imagine

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Speaker 1: he ever would. So Baker screenshots this noonan quote which

427
00:30:03,595 --> 00:30:06,475
Speaker 1: the Columbia protest are wrong because they wouldn't give her

428
00:30:06,515 --> 00:30:11,395
Speaker 1: a quote, and they are conforming, and they are obviously

429
00:30:11,475 --> 00:30:14,355
Speaker 1: slandering those like herself who are falsely being accused of

430
00:30:14,395 --> 00:30:18,275
Speaker 1: being corporate media word twisters. Just because they happen to

431
00:30:18,315 --> 00:30:22,595
Speaker 1: work for Rupert Murdoch and as always, that's why Peggy

432
00:30:22,635 --> 00:30:26,875
Speaker 1: didn't get the story. And Baker, who insists his boss

433
00:30:27,195 --> 00:30:31,115
Speaker 1: would never wield payback against a president for not explaining

434
00:30:31,155 --> 00:30:35,395
Speaker 1: his cause or engaging Times journalists. Baker adds his own

435
00:30:35,435 --> 00:30:39,115
Speaker 1: tut tusk and his own quote, when protests are not

436
00:30:39,355 --> 00:30:44,115
Speaker 1: actually about explaining your cause or trying to engage journalists

437
00:30:44,115 --> 00:30:51,875
Speaker 1: who are there to listen un quote, I will say

438
00:30:51,875 --> 00:30:55,635
Speaker 1: something now that will never ever ever sink into the

439
00:30:55,635 --> 00:30:59,715
Speaker 1: skulls of Peter Baker or Peggy Noonan or the New

440
00:30:59,795 --> 00:31:03,795
Speaker 1: York Times or the Wall Street Journal were large swaths

441
00:31:03,835 --> 00:31:09,915
Speaker 1: of television news or lots of podcasters wait till you

442
00:31:09,995 --> 00:31:14,315
Speaker 1: hear what David Pluff has planned for a podcast. But

443
00:31:14,435 --> 00:31:17,675
Speaker 1: let me say this to all of them. A protest

444
00:31:18,435 --> 00:31:23,235
Speaker 1: is not staged just so that Peggy Noonan can get

445
00:31:23,355 --> 00:31:30,035
Speaker 1: quotes for a column. A president does not enact policy

446
00:31:31,075 --> 00:31:34,635
Speaker 1: just so that The Times can ask him about it

447
00:31:34,675 --> 00:31:38,595
Speaker 1: in a one on one with him. A White House

448
00:31:38,675 --> 00:31:43,275
Speaker 1: media strategy does not just exist so the Post can

449
00:31:43,315 --> 00:31:45,595
Speaker 1: grill him for two hours in a ritual that has

450
00:31:45,635 --> 00:31:48,315
Speaker 1: almost no value to the White House. If ever, it did,

451
00:31:48,955 --> 00:31:52,795
Speaker 1: and a presidential election in which one guy is going

452
00:31:52,835 --> 00:31:56,635
Speaker 1: to try to get rid of elections is not just

453
00:31:56,715 --> 00:32:02,595
Speaker 1: about testing the Times to see if it can be balanced.

454
00:32:04,155 --> 00:32:06,835
Speaker 1: And news papers that continued to behave as if this

455
00:32:06,995 --> 00:32:11,435
Speaker 1: is nineteen fifty three and nothing happens until you read

456
00:32:11,475 --> 00:32:15,155
Speaker 1: about it in their pages. They are the primary reason

457
00:32:15,155 --> 00:32:18,275
Speaker 1: that when a nation turned to them for analysis and

458
00:32:18,395 --> 00:32:23,355
Speaker 1: reality and truth in these unprecedented times when all the

459
00:32:23,435 --> 00:32:29,075
Speaker 1: other guard rails failed. Instead of giving them answers, the

460
00:32:29,155 --> 00:32:33,195
Speaker 1: papers ask things like is Biden's age now a bigger

461
00:32:33,235 --> 00:32:43,515
Speaker 1: problem than Trump's indictments? The Times asks questions like that,

462
00:32:44,875 --> 00:32:49,915
Speaker 1: rather than answering questions like where's that Trump forty percent

463
00:32:49,995 --> 00:32:59,075
Speaker 1: recording that you've been suppressing. Oh, by the way, you

464
00:32:59,195 --> 00:33:01,915
Speaker 1: will still hear otherwise, but it's now official, even according

465
00:33:01,915 --> 00:33:05,195
Speaker 1: to the dullest Beltway insiders known to man the Hill.

466
00:33:05,795 --> 00:33:10,275
Speaker 1: You know who's ahead in the polls, Biden, The Hill

467
00:33:10,355 --> 00:33:15,115
Speaker 1: and Decision Desk HQ poll of polls at six hundred

468
00:33:15,115 --> 00:33:18,435
Speaker 1: and eighty five different polls, Biden forty five, Trump forty

469
00:33:18,475 --> 00:33:22,555
Speaker 1: four point nine. Trump still up in Michigan, Pennsylvania, in Wisconsin,

470
00:33:22,715 --> 00:33:30,115
Speaker 1: but you sunk my narrative. Also of interest here, good evening,

471
00:33:30,195 --> 00:33:33,995
Speaker 1: and welcome to the end of your career. Obama's two

472
00:33:34,035 --> 00:33:38,355
Speaker 1: thousand and eight campaign manager is starting that podcast Everybody Wants,

473
00:33:39,595 --> 00:33:45,395
Speaker 1: the one in which his co host is I can't,

474
00:33:45,475 --> 00:33:47,555
Speaker 1: I can't tease this. I have to tell you, Kelly

475
00:33:47,675 --> 00:33:52,195
Speaker 1: and Conway. I wouldn't listen to Kelly and Conway with

476
00:33:52,315 --> 00:33:57,035
Speaker 1: your ears. And this is the week of the seventieth

477
00:33:57,035 --> 00:34:01,435
Speaker 1: anniversary celebrations of Roger Banister becoming the first man to

478
00:34:01,595 --> 00:34:07,315
Speaker 1: break the four minute mile barrier. Except he wasn't. It's

479
00:34:07,515 --> 00:34:16,715
Speaker 1: all a lie. That's next. This is Countdown. This is Countdown,

480
00:34:17,235 --> 00:34:41,835
Speaker 1: with Keith Alberman still ahead of us on this edition

481
00:34:41,875 --> 00:34:44,275
Speaker 1: of Countdown. It is one of the most famous events

482
00:34:44,315 --> 00:34:49,515
Speaker 1: in sports history, the unforgettable moment when something impossible happened,

483
00:34:49,875 --> 00:34:54,595
Speaker 1: as impactful a positive event as anything else that occurred

484
00:34:55,235 --> 00:34:59,355
Speaker 1: short of War ending in the whole of the twentieth century.

485
00:34:59,875 --> 00:35:04,195
Speaker 1: And the story that you know about it is pure bullshit.

486
00:35:05,515 --> 00:35:09,675
Speaker 1: Roger Banister was not the first man to run a

487
00:35:09,755 --> 00:35:13,275
Speaker 1: four minute mile seventy years ago this week. There is,

488
00:35:13,315 --> 00:35:15,235
Speaker 1: in fact, every chance that the first man to run

489
00:35:15,235 --> 00:35:18,475
Speaker 1: a four minute mile did it a thousand years ago

490
00:35:18,795 --> 00:35:21,915
Speaker 1: I had in things I promised not to tell mashed

491
00:35:22,035 --> 00:35:25,755
Speaker 1: up with the sports cast. But first, as ever, there

492
00:35:25,795 --> 00:35:28,635
Speaker 1: are still more new idiots to talk about. The daily

493
00:35:28,755 --> 00:35:31,555
Speaker 1: roundup of the miss Grants, morons and Dunning Kruger effects

494
00:35:31,555 --> 00:35:35,555
Speaker 1: specimens who constitute today's worst persons in the world in

495
00:35:35,635 --> 00:35:40,795
Speaker 1: less than four minutes, the bronze Worser. Speaking of sports,

496
00:35:40,835 --> 00:35:45,035
Speaker 1: the Detroit Tigers baseball team. It was their turn to

497
00:35:45,195 --> 00:35:51,635
Speaker 1: unveil those new City Connect uniforms, and I guess the

498
00:35:51,755 --> 00:35:57,155
Speaker 1: shirts say Motor City on them. Okay, except in the

499
00:35:57,195 --> 00:36:03,755
Speaker 1: font from the original Star Trek MotorCity Star Trek. Anyway,

500
00:36:03,995 --> 00:36:08,675
Speaker 1: the caps have Detroit on them, like the whole word Detroit,

501
00:36:09,675 --> 00:36:12,115
Speaker 1: like a cap you would buy at the Detroit Airport

502
00:36:12,795 --> 00:36:15,955
Speaker 1: with a little plastic snap on the back. But the

503
00:36:15,995 --> 00:36:18,955
Speaker 1: reason that the Tigers make the list is not the uniform.

504
00:36:19,035 --> 00:36:22,235
Speaker 1: Somebody will buy it, That's the whole point. The email

505
00:36:22,395 --> 00:36:25,475
Speaker 1: the team sent out to fans yesterday hyping the new

506
00:36:25,555 --> 00:36:31,635
Speaker 1: City Connect uniforms headlined Tiger's City Connect is going and

507
00:36:31,675 --> 00:36:36,115
Speaker 1: then it's got a zero, a hyphen and sixty. Now,

508
00:36:36,155 --> 00:36:39,275
Speaker 1: somebody thought that phrase would read as if it meant

509
00:36:39,955 --> 00:36:43,875
Speaker 1: zero to sixty as in miles per hour zero to sixty,

510
00:36:44,195 --> 00:36:46,635
Speaker 1: somebody who has never had anything to do with baseball

511
00:36:46,675 --> 00:36:50,555
Speaker 1: before or any other organized team sport, because when a

512
00:36:50,595 --> 00:36:55,035
Speaker 1: baseball fan sees zero dash sixty, it just reads Tigers

513
00:36:55,075 --> 00:36:57,755
Speaker 1: Connect is going oh and sixty, as in the sports

514
00:36:57,755 --> 00:37:00,915
Speaker 1: way of describing the team's one lost record, oh and

515
00:37:00,995 --> 00:37:05,475
Speaker 1: sixty is zero wins and sixty losses, and putting it

516
00:37:05,515 --> 00:37:09,315
Speaker 1: that way means that when they wear the City Connect uniforms,

517
00:37:09,475 --> 00:37:13,875
Speaker 1: the Tigers will have zero wins and sixty losses. Well,

518
00:37:13,915 --> 00:37:17,475
Speaker 1: at least they're honest about it. The writer's up worser

519
00:37:17,595 --> 00:37:21,515
Speaker 1: Congresswoman Nancy Mace. You remember Nancy May. She was Christy

520
00:37:21,635 --> 00:37:25,675
Speaker 1: Nome before Christy Nome. Mace went on Fox quote news

521
00:37:25,755 --> 00:37:28,675
Speaker 1: unquote with Neil Cavudo, and as my grandma would have said,

522
00:37:29,035 --> 00:37:34,395
Speaker 1: she opened the umbrella or just umbrella. What Grandma meant

523
00:37:34,595 --> 00:37:38,595
Speaker 1: was code for a polite version of this expression, I

524
00:37:38,635 --> 00:37:41,595
Speaker 1: guess I don't mind that you shoved the umbrella up

525
00:37:41,675 --> 00:37:48,115
Speaker 1: my backside, just don't open it, shortened for propriety's sake,

526
00:37:48,755 --> 00:37:56,915
Speaker 1: to umbrella. Grandma had class Mace, not really Mace, and

527
00:37:56,955 --> 00:37:59,795
Speaker 1: the other anti semites in her Party have spent decades

528
00:37:59,835 --> 00:38:05,155
Speaker 1: blaming George sorows for everything except how quickly milk goes sour.

529
00:38:05,795 --> 00:38:09,115
Speaker 1: It's all anti Semitic, it's all grotesque, it's all dangerous.

530
00:38:09,115 --> 00:38:12,595
Speaker 1: But now Nancy Mace has taken it an extra step.

531
00:38:13,635 --> 00:38:19,555
Speaker 1: She has umbrellaed. She's accused Sorrows, the guy the Republicans

532
00:38:19,595 --> 00:38:23,475
Speaker 1: think is the evil Jewish trope pulling the strings behind everything.

533
00:38:23,515 --> 00:38:29,315
Speaker 1: She's accused him of trying to destroy Israel. Quote, you've

534
00:38:29,315 --> 00:38:32,995
Speaker 1: got Palestinian rights groups that are funded by George Soros.

535
00:38:34,155 --> 00:38:37,155
Speaker 1: Neil Cavudo, who must think he's in purgatory and being

536
00:38:37,195 --> 00:38:40,275
Speaker 1: forced to pay off his sins by doing this show

537
00:38:40,275 --> 00:38:43,675
Speaker 1: on Fox Forever, replied, there's no proof that these are

538
00:38:43,675 --> 00:38:47,795
Speaker 1: funded by George Soros. Mace then smiles stupidly and says,

539
00:38:48,035 --> 00:38:52,395
Speaker 1: will agree to disagree. I guess Nancy Mace has made

540
00:38:52,395 --> 00:38:55,555
Speaker 1: a fool of herself so many times that one wonders

541
00:38:56,035 --> 00:38:59,555
Speaker 1: if it's legit, if she's really that stupid, And one

542
00:38:59,595 --> 00:39:04,675
Speaker 1: wonders if she even knows that Israel. Let me tell you,

543
00:39:04,955 --> 00:39:13,635
Speaker 1: Israel is run by the Jews. Umbrella Nancy Mace, Yeah,

544
00:39:13,755 --> 00:39:18,995
Speaker 1: George Soros is funding pro Palestinian groups, The Winner, though

545
00:39:19,115 --> 00:39:23,075
Speaker 1: the worst. David Pluff, the campaign manager for Barack Obama

546
00:39:23,155 --> 00:39:26,235
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight and apparently still living in

547
00:39:26,275 --> 00:39:29,475
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, look when it comes to throwing

548
00:39:29,715 --> 00:39:33,835
Speaker 1: stones about making oneself relevant again in the political world

549
00:39:33,955 --> 00:39:39,515
Speaker 1: via podcast I Don't Even Have Gravel. However, mister Pluff

550
00:39:39,555 --> 00:39:42,515
Speaker 1: has decided that he will be co hosting a new

551
00:39:42,595 --> 00:39:46,395
Speaker 1: podcast later this month called The Campaign Managers, in which

552
00:39:46,435 --> 00:39:49,195
Speaker 1: he and his other co host will quote look at

553
00:39:49,195 --> 00:39:52,875
Speaker 1: the race objectively and hopefully provide some context and what

554
00:39:52,915 --> 00:39:55,355
Speaker 1: the other side may be thinking that for those who

555
00:39:55,435 --> 00:39:57,915
Speaker 1: want to know what is really happening with the electorate,

556
00:39:57,995 --> 00:40:03,235
Speaker 1: not just each side spin, you'll find valuable and distinctive. Now,

557
00:40:03,275 --> 00:40:06,275
Speaker 1: who on the right could be that co host who

558
00:40:06,275 --> 00:40:10,595
Speaker 1: could fulfill such a rare role providing a glimpse of

559
00:40:10,635 --> 00:40:18,435
Speaker 1: objectivity and perspective while supporting Trump well, naturally, KellyAnn Conway.

560
00:40:19,755 --> 00:40:23,875
Speaker 1: David Pluff and Kelly Ann Conway to co host podcast

561
00:40:24,475 --> 00:40:28,835
Speaker 1: Kelly and Conway. You know, the inventor of alternative facts,

562
00:40:29,595 --> 00:40:33,235
Speaker 1: the woman who lied throughout the entirety of the Trump presidency,

563
00:40:33,355 --> 00:40:36,275
Speaker 1: the woman who made up the Bowling Green massacre story.

564
00:40:36,275 --> 00:40:39,915
Speaker 1: The woman whose daughter sued her for emancipation. The woman

565
00:40:39,955 --> 00:40:43,075
Speaker 1: whom the Special Council set had violated the hatch at

566
00:40:43,155 --> 00:40:46,035
Speaker 1: so many times that she should actually be fired. The

567
00:40:46,075 --> 00:40:48,795
Speaker 1: woman who punched a guy at a Trump inaugural ball.

568
00:40:49,115 --> 00:40:52,035
Speaker 1: The woman who on almost any liberals list of the

569
00:40:52,075 --> 00:40:55,595
Speaker 1: ten most hated people associated with Trump, and more importantly,

570
00:40:55,795 --> 00:40:58,435
Speaker 1: on almost any liberals list of the ten people associated

571
00:40:58,475 --> 00:41:02,555
Speaker 1: with Trump who were seen as the most dishonest. That's

572
00:41:02,795 --> 00:41:06,155
Speaker 1: who Pluff is co hosting a podcast. Asked with to

573
00:41:06,275 --> 00:41:09,115
Speaker 1: give you some sort of overview, I'd never mind an

574
00:41:09,115 --> 00:41:13,795
Speaker 1: overview to not lie about Trump. That's who you picked.

575
00:41:14,195 --> 00:41:16,875
Speaker 1: That was the best option. I go with Michael Flynn

576
00:41:16,915 --> 00:41:21,275
Speaker 1: ahead of Kelly and con Job, the producers of this

577
00:41:21,795 --> 00:41:25,395
Speaker 1: podcast one and I believe they're still in business, but

578
00:41:25,435 --> 00:41:28,595
Speaker 1: I haven't checked yet today. They must be delighted with

579
00:41:28,675 --> 00:41:32,435
Speaker 1: the reaction to this. As of late yesterday afternoon, Pluff's

580
00:41:32,475 --> 00:41:36,155
Speaker 1: tweet announcing the podcast had gotten one hundred and sixty likes,

581
00:41:36,475 --> 00:41:40,075
Speaker 1: three hundred and seventy three reposts, and twenty eight hundred comments.

582
00:41:40,595 --> 00:41:43,675
Speaker 1: And I didn't see one good one in there. Conway's

583
00:41:43,715 --> 00:41:46,355
Speaker 1: tweet got three hundred and fifty seven likes, one hundred

584
00:41:46,355 --> 00:41:49,635
Speaker 1: and ninety eight reposts, and eight hundred and sixty comments.

585
00:41:49,675 --> 00:41:51,755
Speaker 1: I believe I'm not too familiar with this. I believe

586
00:41:51,755 --> 00:41:56,635
Speaker 1: it's called being ratioed or ratiode or pistachioed. I'm not

587
00:41:56,715 --> 00:41:59,595
Speaker 1: what is something like that? So why on earth did

588
00:41:59,635 --> 00:42:02,515
Speaker 1: Pluff do this? I mean, this is throwing out your

589
00:42:02,515 --> 00:42:08,795
Speaker 1: public credibility in one swoop. No Christy nome, multi day

590
00:42:08,915 --> 00:42:13,795
Speaker 1: descent into the abyss, no long slow self immolation like

591
00:42:13,835 --> 00:42:17,955
Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green. This is one minute you're popular, You're

592
00:42:17,955 --> 00:42:20,075
Speaker 1: the guy who got Obama across the finish line, and

593
00:42:20,115 --> 00:42:24,075
Speaker 1: the next minute you're Kelly Ann con Jobs token liberal.

594
00:42:25,355 --> 00:42:29,275
Speaker 1: This is my understanding of the whole situation. For the

595
00:42:29,355 --> 00:42:31,675
Speaker 1: last decade, it has been clear to me that the

596
00:42:31,675 --> 00:42:38,835
Speaker 1: primary source of background information, positive negative otherwise about the

597
00:42:38,875 --> 00:42:44,715
Speaker 1: Trump presidency for journalists, especially at TV Networks, was Kelly

598
00:42:44,715 --> 00:42:48,595
Speaker 1: Ann Conway. For all her public abuse of liberals and

599
00:42:48,635 --> 00:42:53,035
Speaker 1: Democrats and journalists and America, apparently she could not stop

600
00:42:53,155 --> 00:42:57,115
Speaker 1: dishing to journalists. Twice I was told, and once by

601
00:42:57,195 --> 00:42:59,955
Speaker 1: Katie Terr, you can't say that about Kelly Ann. She's

602
00:42:59,995 --> 00:43:03,835
Speaker 1: my go to source. This is the kind of thing

603
00:43:03,995 --> 00:43:08,675
Speaker 1: in an insulated, disastrously incestuous world like Washington, that can

604
00:43:08,715 --> 00:43:13,955
Speaker 1: seem to be not just important but decisive. While sure,

605
00:43:14,035 --> 00:43:18,675
Speaker 1: she's still a primary advisor to a madman our Hitler

606
00:43:19,075 --> 00:43:22,315
Speaker 1: bent on ending American democracy, but she's got two great

607
00:43:22,355 --> 00:43:26,555
Speaker 1: stories and she keeps us in the know. And imagine

608
00:43:26,595 --> 00:43:30,155
Speaker 1: the pairing Obama's campaign manager and the only one of

609
00:43:30,155 --> 00:43:34,675
Speaker 1: Trump's campaign managers who didn't go to trial. Yet those

610
00:43:34,835 --> 00:43:39,835
Speaker 1: morons out there will love this podcast. They really think

611
00:43:39,875 --> 00:43:44,915
Speaker 1: this way. David Pluff co host with a woman That's

612
00:43:44,955 --> 00:43:49,315
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live presented as Penny Wise, the evil Stephen

613
00:43:49,435 --> 00:43:54,195
Speaker 1: King clown from it, co host of the campaign Managers.

614
00:43:54,195 --> 00:43:57,555
Speaker 1: Because I guess the other title so much both sides

615
00:43:57,635 --> 00:44:01,035
Speaker 1: is that blood will spurt out of your ears must

616
00:44:01,035 --> 00:44:16,435
Speaker 1: have already been taken two days person in the world, Now,

617
00:44:16,515 --> 00:44:20,635
Speaker 1: don't go away. Ordinarily we break here, but no, not yet.

618
00:44:20,675 --> 00:44:29,395
Speaker 1: This is a special edition with a special format. It's

619
00:44:29,555 --> 00:44:33,275
Speaker 1: mash Up Time, a special edition of Things I Promised

620
00:44:33,315 --> 00:44:39,555
Speaker 1: Not to Tell and Sports Central Center. Seventy years ago today,

621
00:44:39,675 --> 00:44:44,195
Speaker 1: the world was still in disbelief because the day before

622
00:44:44,555 --> 00:44:48,835
Speaker 1: May sixth, nineteen fifty four, saw unfold one of the

623
00:44:48,875 --> 00:44:53,315
Speaker 1: most famous events in sports history, in fact, in twentieth

624
00:44:53,355 --> 00:44:58,035
Speaker 1: century world history, and everything you may have ever heard

625
00:44:58,075 --> 00:45:03,955
Speaker 1: about it is wrong. From six zho four pm prevailing

626
00:45:04,035 --> 00:45:06,875
Speaker 1: local time in England on the early evening of Thursday

627
00:45:06,915 --> 00:45:10,475
Speaker 1: May sixth, nineteen fifty four, continuing until the day the

628
00:45:10,475 --> 00:45:15,195
Speaker 1: man died on March third, twenty eighteen, not a day

629
00:45:15,555 --> 00:45:19,075
Speaker 1: went by, probably not an hour went by without somebody

630
00:45:19,475 --> 00:45:26,355
Speaker 1: congratulating Roger Banister on becoming or having become, or being

631
00:45:27,195 --> 00:45:32,075
Speaker 1: or forever being, or being immortalized by being the first

632
00:45:32,555 --> 00:45:37,515
Speaker 1: human to run a mile in four minutes or less,

633
00:45:37,835 --> 00:45:42,915
Speaker 1: the man who broke the four minute mile. Except for

634
00:45:43,075 --> 00:45:51,275
Speaker 1: one small detail, he wasn't. We cannot now comprehend what

635
00:45:51,395 --> 00:45:55,795
Speaker 1: a big deal this really was. Neil Armstrong, Times, Charles

636
00:45:55,835 --> 00:45:59,875
Speaker 1: Lindberg plus George Washington Maybe. The next day, The New

637
00:45:59,955 --> 00:46:06,275
Speaker 1: York Times published ten different stories about Roger Banister breaking

638
00:46:06,315 --> 00:46:10,515
Speaker 1: the four minute mile barrier, plus an editorial. An editorial

639
00:46:10,555 --> 00:46:15,115
Speaker 1: on the editorial page that asked if anybody in world

640
00:46:15,195 --> 00:46:20,555
Speaker 1: history would ever do it again. Roger Gilbert Banister began

641
00:46:20,635 --> 00:46:23,435
Speaker 1: the Times on the front page, ran a mile in

642
00:46:23,475 --> 00:46:26,875
Speaker 1: three minutes fifty nine point four seconds, tonight to reach

643
00:46:27,115 --> 00:46:35,555
Speaker 1: one of man's hitherto unattainable goals. There's just one problem.

644
00:46:35,835 --> 00:46:39,675
Speaker 1: Not only was Roger Banister probably not the first man

645
00:46:39,795 --> 00:46:42,235
Speaker 1: to run a mile in less than four minutes, but

646
00:46:42,355 --> 00:46:45,195
Speaker 1: there is also a lot of evidence that that record

647
00:46:45,275 --> 00:46:50,595
Speaker 1: was broken in May of seventeen to seventy by a

648
00:46:50,675 --> 00:46:55,235
Speaker 1: guy who sold fruits and vegetables from a pushcart on

649
00:46:55,355 --> 00:47:05,315
Speaker 1: the streets of London, a guy named Parrot. Sixty nine

650
00:47:05,955 --> 00:47:10,475
Speaker 1: years later, and this is still the most famous run

651
00:47:10,635 --> 00:47:15,475
Speaker 1: in the history of the world. May sixth, nineteen fifty four,

652
00:47:16,235 --> 00:47:19,355
Speaker 1: on an ordinary spring evening at the Ifley Road Track

653
00:47:19,395 --> 00:47:23,475
Speaker 1: at Oxford University in England. Even as an unfavorable wind

654
00:47:23,555 --> 00:47:26,755
Speaker 1: worked against him, Roger Banister ran through the tape in

655
00:47:26,835 --> 00:47:29,875
Speaker 1: three point fifty nine to four and ran directly into

656
00:47:29,915 --> 00:47:34,115
Speaker 1: not just sports history, but human history, the four minute mile,

657
00:47:34,555 --> 00:47:37,835
Speaker 1: the first human ever to run that far that fast,

658
00:47:38,475 --> 00:47:41,355
Speaker 1: like the first man on the moon, no matter how

659
00:47:41,435 --> 00:47:46,715
Speaker 1: much farther we go. But glory is his, indefinitely, forever,

660
00:47:46,915 --> 00:47:55,275
Speaker 1: always eternal, immortal Neil Armstrong, But in shorts or there

661
00:47:55,275 --> 00:47:58,515
Speaker 1: had already been a four minute mile run in seventeen seventy,

662
00:47:58,995 --> 00:48:01,675
Speaker 1: and Banister has no more claim to immortality than do

663
00:48:01,835 --> 00:48:04,595
Speaker 1: you or I. And this is really a story about

664
00:48:04,755 --> 00:48:09,515
Speaker 1: bureaucracy supporting bureaucracy, and what the experts call recency bias,

665
00:48:09,715 --> 00:48:12,475
Speaker 1: and a lot of racism. And the story should be

666
00:48:12,515 --> 00:48:14,675
Speaker 1: about a guy who used to sell fruits and vegetables

667
00:48:14,715 --> 00:48:16,675
Speaker 1: on the streets of London and who ran in his

668
00:48:16,715 --> 00:48:21,235
Speaker 1: spare time for money in the decade before the American Revolution.

669
00:48:21,395 --> 00:48:24,955
Speaker 1: And his name was Parrot, as in look, maby, I

670
00:48:24,995 --> 00:48:27,315
Speaker 1: know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm

671
00:48:27,315 --> 00:48:31,955
Speaker 1: looking at one right now. We begin in the pages

672
00:48:32,075 --> 00:48:35,635
Speaker 1: of a British book dated from seventeen ninety four, which

673
00:48:35,715 --> 00:48:38,635
Speaker 1: seems to be for you Back to the future fans,

674
00:48:38,835 --> 00:48:43,235
Speaker 1: a kind of Gray's Sports Almanac. The seventeen ninety four

675
00:48:43,395 --> 00:48:49,115
Speaker 1: tome bears an amazingly modern title the Sports Magazine, and

676
00:48:49,155 --> 00:48:52,675
Speaker 1: its chronology of top sports events of recent years past

677
00:48:53,155 --> 00:48:58,035
Speaker 1: includes for the year seventeen seventy this quote seventeen seventy

678
00:48:58,235 --> 00:49:03,555
Speaker 1: May ninth, James Parrot, a costermonger. A costermonger sold fruits

679
00:49:03,555 --> 00:49:07,515
Speaker 1: and vegetables from a push on street. James Parrott, a costuremonger,

680
00:49:07,755 --> 00:49:10,555
Speaker 1: ran the length of Old Street viz. From the Charterhouse

681
00:49:10,595 --> 00:49:14,155
Speaker 1: wall in Goswell Street to Shoreditch Church Gates, which is

682
00:49:14,195 --> 00:49:18,675
Speaker 1: a measured mile in four minutes. Fifteen guineas to five

683
00:49:18,795 --> 00:49:21,555
Speaker 1: were betted he did not run the ground in four

684
00:49:21,595 --> 00:49:27,355
Speaker 1: minutes and a half. So that's it. I am besmirching

685
00:49:27,475 --> 00:49:31,835
Speaker 1: the immortality of Saint Roger Banister and everything you will

686
00:49:31,875 --> 00:49:34,875
Speaker 1: see in the newspapers about him over the weekend because

687
00:49:34,875 --> 00:49:38,915
Speaker 1: of fifty one words about some guy racing against an

688
00:49:38,915 --> 00:49:42,635
Speaker 1: eighteenth century watch in the year seventeen seventy, and the

689
00:49:42,635 --> 00:49:47,955
Speaker 1: story wasn't even published until twenty four years later. Seriously, seriously,

690
00:49:49,315 --> 00:49:52,635
Speaker 1: there is nothing else to say about James Parrott. That

691
00:49:52,875 --> 00:49:56,635
Speaker 1: snippet from that book is all that researchers have ever

692
00:49:56,755 --> 00:50:01,515
Speaker 1: found or found out about James Parrott. No obituary, no nothing,

693
00:50:01,955 --> 00:50:06,355
Speaker 1: no four minute mile, no confirmation he ever exist. Besides which,

694
00:50:06,355 --> 00:50:08,915
Speaker 1: as every modern sports fan will tell you, the athletes

695
00:50:08,955 --> 00:50:12,435
Speaker 1: of today are the great, greater, greatest of all time goats.

696
00:50:12,635 --> 00:50:14,875
Speaker 1: If the record book says nobody ran a four minute

697
00:50:14,875 --> 00:50:17,515
Speaker 1: mile until nineteen fifty four, of course the record books

698
00:50:17,515 --> 00:50:22,315
Speaker 1: are right. Since seventeen seventy, humans have evolved, health has evolved,

699
00:50:22,355 --> 00:50:25,755
Speaker 1: training has evolved. Why in seventeen seventy you couldn't even

700
00:50:25,795 --> 00:50:32,835
Speaker 1: accurately measure a mile, let alone measure exactly four minutes. Actually,

701
00:50:33,315 --> 00:50:37,515
Speaker 1: agricultural chains, designed to resolve who owned what property and

702
00:50:37,635 --> 00:50:41,675
Speaker 1: where international borders were, had been introduced in sixteen twenty

703
00:50:42,235 --> 00:50:45,315
Speaker 1: and have proved to be at worst only off by

704
00:50:45,355 --> 00:50:49,915
Speaker 1: around two fifths of an inch over a mile. And

705
00:50:49,955 --> 00:50:55,035
Speaker 1: if you're saying agracultural chains, you don't use agricultural chains

706
00:50:55,235 --> 00:50:58,635
Speaker 1: in sports, let me ask you this. What do they

707
00:50:58,755 --> 00:51:01,595
Speaker 1: use in National Football League games to check whether or

708
00:51:01,635 --> 00:51:05,875
Speaker 1: not it's a first down? Okay, we're giving them the

709
00:51:05,915 --> 00:51:08,915
Speaker 1: accuracy of the agricultural change we still use today in

710
00:51:08,995 --> 00:51:13,635
Speaker 1: our pro sports. You could measure several blocks of London

711
00:51:13,675 --> 00:51:17,035
Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy and say from way back there to

712
00:51:17,195 --> 00:51:18,955
Speaker 1: right over here in front of the church, that is

713
00:51:19,075 --> 00:51:23,995
Speaker 1: exactly a mile Govnor, But how would you time it

714
00:51:24,315 --> 00:51:28,875
Speaker 1: four minutes? Exactly? What did they use? A really good sundial? No,

715
00:51:29,635 --> 00:51:33,435
Speaker 1: that had a thing called a chronometer. The chronometer was

716
00:51:33,475 --> 00:51:37,355
Speaker 1: perfected by seventeen sixty one. You may know the chronometer

717
00:51:37,595 --> 00:51:40,955
Speaker 1: as a Swiss watch, or as you might also know

718
00:51:40,995 --> 00:51:45,675
Speaker 1: it a rolllex So this parrot runs a mile, or

719
00:51:45,715 --> 00:51:48,755
Speaker 1: maybe he runs a mile plus two fifths of an inch,

720
00:51:49,075 --> 00:51:53,475
Speaker 1: and he is timed by several guys with rolllexes, and

721
00:51:53,515 --> 00:51:56,275
Speaker 1: they all have the same score. He did it in

722
00:51:56,355 --> 00:52:01,035
Speaker 1: exactly four minutes. If you're still not convinced, if you're

723
00:52:01,075 --> 00:52:05,515
Speaker 1: still googling Roger Banister's descendants so they can sue this

724
00:52:05,635 --> 00:52:09,315
Speaker 1: idiot Ulderman in his podcast, let me emphasize the part

725
00:52:09,355 --> 00:52:12,915
Speaker 1: that convinced me that a man named Parrot did run

726
00:52:12,995 --> 00:52:16,675
Speaker 1: a four minute mile two months and four days after

727
00:52:16,755 --> 00:52:20,115
Speaker 1: the Boston massacre unleashed the events that would culminate in

728
00:52:20,155 --> 00:52:24,555
Speaker 1: the American Revolution. Permit me to reread that last sentence

729
00:52:24,555 --> 00:52:29,275
Speaker 1: about James Parrott's run from Gray's Sports almana I'm sorry,

730
00:52:29,355 --> 00:52:33,755
Speaker 1: from the Sporting magazine of seventeen ninety four. Quote, fifteen

731
00:52:33,915 --> 00:52:37,715
Speaker 1: guineas to five were betted he did not run the

732
00:52:37,755 --> 00:52:42,595
Speaker 1: ground in four minutes and a half. This guy Parrot

733
00:52:43,275 --> 00:52:47,755
Speaker 1: bet on himself and got three to one odds, and

734
00:52:47,835 --> 00:52:50,755
Speaker 1: the five guineas wagered here that would be worth about

735
00:52:50,755 --> 00:52:54,355
Speaker 1: fifty five hundred dollars in today's money, meaning this was

736
00:52:54,355 --> 00:52:57,755
Speaker 1: no eighteenth century Roger Banister hoping to break a record

737
00:52:57,795 --> 00:53:00,635
Speaker 1: for Queen and Country. This was a guy who did

738
00:53:00,675 --> 00:53:05,795
Speaker 1: this for money, for the equivalent in winning of about

739
00:53:05,835 --> 00:53:09,515
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand dollars at least as much as his annual

740
00:53:09,595 --> 00:53:12,875
Speaker 1: income might have been selling fruits and vegetables from a cart,

741
00:53:12,955 --> 00:53:15,915
Speaker 1: and the way it's phrased in that magazine, we don't know.

742
00:53:15,955 --> 00:53:19,035
Speaker 1: If more than one bet of fifteen guineas to five

743
00:53:19,195 --> 00:53:22,715
Speaker 1: was placed, he might have won thirty four thousand dollars

744
00:53:23,035 --> 00:53:25,395
Speaker 1: or fifty one thousand dollars or five hundred and ten

745
00:53:25,475 --> 00:53:31,275
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Because this was for money, the loser or

746
00:53:31,595 --> 00:53:34,475
Speaker 1: losers who bet he could not finish the race in

747
00:53:34,595 --> 00:53:37,795
Speaker 1: four and a half minutes had to be satisfied that

748
00:53:37,915 --> 00:53:40,235
Speaker 1: he had done it in less than four and a half,

749
00:53:40,275 --> 00:53:43,315
Speaker 1: in this case, in four As we know from our

750
00:53:43,435 --> 00:53:47,475
Speaker 1: own times, losers now like to claim they didn't lose

751
00:53:47,795 --> 00:53:50,035
Speaker 1: and will go to any length to convince others they

752
00:53:50,075 --> 00:53:53,715
Speaker 1: did not lose. But James Parrott got his money, which

753
00:53:53,755 --> 00:53:58,195
Speaker 1: means that the loser or losers believed James Parrott really

754
00:53:58,315 --> 00:54:02,075
Speaker 1: raised a mile and did it in four minutes. I'm

755
00:54:02,195 --> 00:54:05,755
Speaker 1: sold antiquated books and four ment miles run one hundred

756
00:54:05,755 --> 00:54:07,875
Speaker 1: and eighty three years before the first four minute mile,

757
00:54:08,075 --> 00:54:11,675
Speaker 1: and costermongers and agricultural change. They may come and go,

758
00:54:12,315 --> 00:54:17,675
Speaker 1: and may be trustworthy or untrustworthy, but money is money.

759
00:54:18,915 --> 00:54:21,835
Speaker 1: And James Parrott was given the equivalent of his annual

760
00:54:21,915 --> 00:54:25,875
Speaker 1: salary at least once because somebody who thought he could

761
00:54:25,915 --> 00:54:30,035
Speaker 1: not do it agreed, Yeah, I was wrong. He really, really,

762
00:54:30,115 --> 00:54:35,195
Speaker 1: really really did just run the mile in four minutes. Now,

763
00:54:35,515 --> 00:54:38,515
Speaker 1: of course the whole account in the book could be wrong.

764
00:54:39,395 --> 00:54:41,315
Speaker 1: I'm old enough that I was actually on the air

765
00:54:41,355 --> 00:54:44,555
Speaker 1: doing sportscast on the radio network of United Press International

766
00:54:44,715 --> 00:54:48,435
Speaker 1: on April twenty first, nineteen eighty when Rosie Ruiz quote

767
00:54:48,635 --> 00:54:53,315
Speaker 1: one unquote the Boston Marathon. Then it turned out two

768
00:54:53,315 --> 00:54:56,475
Speaker 1: people had seen Rosy Ruiz burst out of the crowd

769
00:54:56,515 --> 00:55:00,635
Speaker 1: of spectators on Commonwealth Avenue and start running alongside the

770
00:55:00,675 --> 00:55:02,915
Speaker 1: men runners. And then it turned out that while she

771
00:55:02,995 --> 00:55:06,395
Speaker 1: was supposedly completing the nineteen seventy nine New York Marathon,

772
00:55:06,715 --> 00:55:09,995
Speaker 1: she had struck up a conversation with a freelance photographer

773
00:55:10,635 --> 00:55:13,155
Speaker 1: on the subway, and the two of them went to

774
00:55:13,195 --> 00:55:16,315
Speaker 1: the finish line together, and Rosie Ruiz then told officials

775
00:55:16,435 --> 00:55:19,315
Speaker 1: she had just finished the race, and Rosie Ruiz was

776
00:55:19,355 --> 00:55:24,395
Speaker 1: a total fraud in two different marathons. Maybe the seventeen

777
00:55:24,475 --> 00:55:28,595
Speaker 1: seventy four minute mile of James Parrott was just inaccurate.

778
00:55:29,035 --> 00:55:32,195
Speaker 1: Maybe it was just an inside joke or a misheard

779
00:55:32,275 --> 00:55:37,435
Speaker 1: rumor or a typo, or he took the subway with

780
00:55:37,795 --> 00:55:41,835
Speaker 1: Rosie Ruiz, or it was a joke by whoever wrote

781
00:55:41,875 --> 00:55:44,235
Speaker 1: the book. I've told you this story before about the

782
00:55:44,315 --> 00:55:47,475
Speaker 1: nineteen twelve Saint Louis Brown's second baseman named Proctor, and

783
00:55:47,515 --> 00:55:49,715
Speaker 1: nobody could find anything about him. And then it turned

784
00:55:49,755 --> 00:55:53,075
Speaker 1: out Proctor was the Western Union operator who used to

785
00:55:53,155 --> 00:55:55,915
Speaker 1: make up all the official scorecards after each game, and

786
00:55:55,915 --> 00:55:57,635
Speaker 1: one day he decided he always wanted to be a

787
00:55:57,635 --> 00:56:00,035
Speaker 1: Major League ballplayer, so he put himself in the scorecard.

788
00:56:00,715 --> 00:56:03,435
Speaker 1: Maybe James Parrott was the author of this the sports

789
00:56:03,475 --> 00:56:08,435
Speaker 1: magazine or his four minute miles and Monty Python jokes go. Now,

790
00:56:08,475 --> 00:56:12,395
Speaker 1: that's what I call a dead parrot. So if it's

791
00:56:12,395 --> 00:56:15,755
Speaker 1: a mistake, if it's a typo, if it's his hype job,

792
00:56:16,075 --> 00:56:20,435
Speaker 1: if it's Rosie Ruiz, if it's Leu Proctor, Roger Banister

793
00:56:20,595 --> 00:56:24,475
Speaker 1: is safe now he's not because there was also a

794
00:56:24,515 --> 00:56:28,555
Speaker 1: runner named Powell, and Powell in seventeen eighty seven said

795
00:56:28,555 --> 00:56:30,115
Speaker 1: he could run a mile in four minutes, and he

796
00:56:30,155 --> 00:56:33,395
Speaker 1: wasn't messing around. He bet a thousand guineas that he

797
00:56:33,435 --> 00:56:37,355
Speaker 1: could do it one point one million dollars in today's money.

798
00:56:38,035 --> 00:56:39,995
Speaker 1: And not only that, but he ran on a famous

799
00:56:40,075 --> 00:56:43,235
Speaker 1: English running track near Hampton Court, and five days before

800
00:56:43,275 --> 00:56:46,475
Speaker 1: Christmas of seventeen eighty seven he ran a time trial

801
00:56:46,915 --> 00:56:49,035
Speaker 1: so that the gamblers could all come over and see

802
00:56:49,035 --> 00:56:51,555
Speaker 1: what shape he was in and whether they should bet

803
00:56:51,675 --> 00:56:54,955
Speaker 1: for him or bet against him. And he did it

804
00:56:55,035 --> 00:56:57,875
Speaker 1: in the time trial in four minutes and three seconds.

805
00:56:58,915 --> 00:57:01,315
Speaker 1: And when Powell said the betters could see what shape

806
00:57:01,355 --> 00:57:04,435
Speaker 1: he was in, he really meant it. He was dedicated

807
00:57:04,795 --> 00:57:08,835
Speaker 1: to his cause five days before Christmas and this guy

808
00:57:08,955 --> 00:57:13,915
Speaker 1: ran a mile naked. All that was in the papers.

809
00:57:14,995 --> 00:57:17,955
Speaker 1: What happened to the actual race, we don't know that

810
00:57:18,235 --> 00:57:21,235
Speaker 1: nobody has ever found that newspaper. Nobody's ever found an

811
00:57:21,235 --> 00:57:24,475
Speaker 1: account of the race, only the time trial, So we

812
00:57:24,595 --> 00:57:26,915
Speaker 1: have to go under the assumption that Powell never did

813
00:57:26,995 --> 00:57:31,355
Speaker 1: better than four to three. But once again, Roger Banister's

814
00:57:31,355 --> 00:57:38,075
Speaker 1: four minute mile has withstood the test of time. Kinda bah, No,

815
00:57:38,235 --> 00:57:42,195
Speaker 1: actually it hasn't. There's also another guy named Weller. Weller

816
00:57:42,275 --> 00:57:44,515
Speaker 1: was famous enough as a professional runner of the time

817
00:57:44,675 --> 00:57:46,435
Speaker 1: that when he said he could run a mile on

818
00:57:46,475 --> 00:57:49,395
Speaker 1: the Banbury Road in Oxford, the newspapers of the day

819
00:57:49,435 --> 00:57:51,675
Speaker 1: all showed up to preview it, to talk about his

820
00:57:51,755 --> 00:57:54,515
Speaker 1: two brothers, who were also professional runners, and to cover

821
00:57:54,555 --> 00:57:58,195
Speaker 1: his attempt on October tenth, seventeen ninety six. And there

822
00:57:58,235 --> 00:58:02,595
Speaker 1: it is in the papers. Weller of Oxford runs a

823
00:58:02,635 --> 00:58:09,475
Speaker 1: mile in three minutes fifty eight seconds, not only one

824
00:58:09,555 --> 00:58:12,715
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty eight years before Roger Banister, but a

825
00:58:12,715 --> 00:58:19,355
Speaker 1: second and a half faster than Roger Banister. So here's

826
00:58:19,395 --> 00:58:22,035
Speaker 1: the thing. If somebody really ran a mile in three

827
00:58:22,155 --> 00:58:24,755
Speaker 1: fifty nine or three fifty eight at the time of

828
00:58:24,795 --> 00:58:28,915
Speaker 1: the American Revolution, wouldn't that stand out as such an

829
00:58:28,955 --> 00:58:33,075
Speaker 1: impossible performance then, such an anomaly, so startling that it

830
00:58:33,115 --> 00:58:35,355
Speaker 1: would be viewed in the same way we would view

831
00:58:35,475 --> 00:58:38,475
Speaker 1: news coming up on Monday that somebody now had just

832
00:58:38,595 --> 00:58:41,475
Speaker 1: run the mile in three minutes flat. I mean, if

833
00:58:41,515 --> 00:58:43,795
Speaker 1: somebody ran the mile in three minutes flat, we would

834
00:58:43,875 --> 00:58:45,835
Speaker 1: check to see if the guy was a space alien

835
00:58:46,075 --> 00:58:49,515
Speaker 1: or a time traveler. Wouldn't they have been amazed on

836
00:58:49,555 --> 00:58:54,035
Speaker 1: October tenth, seventeen ninety six, disbelieving what they had heard,

837
00:58:55,835 --> 00:58:58,195
Speaker 1: not at all. And that's the second half of the

838
00:58:58,235 --> 00:59:01,115
Speaker 1: story of the day. Roger Banister did not break the

839
00:59:01,155 --> 00:59:05,755
Speaker 1: four minute barrier. Research and computers and simulation show that

840
00:59:05,875 --> 00:59:09,675
Speaker 1: people in the seventeen eighties were consistently running the mile

841
00:59:10,035 --> 00:59:13,675
Speaker 1: in four minutes and eighteen seconds, four minutes and twenty seconds,

842
00:59:13,715 --> 00:59:16,715
Speaker 1: four minutes and fifteen seconds, if the info about Weller

843
00:59:16,835 --> 00:59:20,635
Speaker 1: is right, three minutes and fifty eight seconds. All the time,

844
00:59:20,675 --> 00:59:23,395
Speaker 1: these numbers were being put up by all kinds of runners.

845
00:59:24,195 --> 00:59:27,435
Speaker 1: So a four minute mile would have been great, but

846
00:59:27,515 --> 00:59:32,315
Speaker 1: not out of context, not in seventeen ninety six. And

847
00:59:32,395 --> 00:59:35,835
Speaker 1: then you have to ask, if it happened, where are

848
00:59:35,875 --> 00:59:39,435
Speaker 1: all those records. Who were all those four minute eighteen

849
00:59:39,475 --> 00:59:43,555
Speaker 1: guys and four minute three second guys and three fifty

850
00:59:43,595 --> 00:59:47,635
Speaker 1: eight guys. What happened to the records? Well, see, that's

851
00:59:47,675 --> 00:59:53,435
Speaker 1: another scandal. Those eighteenth century records were erased in the

852
00:59:53,515 --> 00:59:58,955
Speaker 1: nineteenth century because richer, slower people in the nineteenth century

853
00:59:59,195 --> 01:00:04,115
Speaker 1: wanted to say they held the records. They erased the

854
01:00:04,195 --> 01:00:08,355
Speaker 1: record book that part of the story, and the additional

855
01:00:08,435 --> 01:00:11,075
Speaker 1: sad truth that much of the claims about Roger Banister

856
01:00:11,395 --> 01:00:26,755
Speaker 1: are really really racist. Next, we know Roger Banister really

857
01:00:26,795 --> 01:00:30,195
Speaker 1: did run a three minute and fifty nine second mile

858
01:00:31,195 --> 01:00:34,475
Speaker 1: on May sixth, nineteen fifty four in England. It was

859
01:00:34,555 --> 01:00:38,195
Speaker 1: timed and announced to a waiting crowd by no less

860
01:00:38,195 --> 01:00:41,635
Speaker 1: a figure than Norris mcwerder, who was later the founder

861
01:00:41,795 --> 01:00:44,435
Speaker 1: or co founder of the Guinness Book of World Records.

862
01:00:44,715 --> 01:00:48,075
Speaker 1: And everybody who was there saw history and was part

863
01:00:48,195 --> 01:00:51,515
Speaker 1: of an impossible dream coming true. And as I mentioned earlier,

864
01:00:51,595 --> 01:00:53,555
Speaker 1: the next day the New York Times actually had an

865
01:00:53,635 --> 01:00:56,795
Speaker 1: editorial asking whether or not anybody would ever do it again.

866
01:00:58,635 --> 01:01:01,835
Speaker 1: There is considerable evidence, as I've laid out here, that

867
01:01:01,915 --> 01:01:06,755
Speaker 1: it was done before, like two hundred years before. But

868
01:01:07,355 --> 01:01:10,115
Speaker 1: if you were still not convinced that, no, no matter

869
01:01:10,155 --> 01:01:12,875
Speaker 1: what else it was, Roger Bannister's three minute fifty nine

870
01:01:12,875 --> 01:01:15,795
Speaker 1: point four second mile on May sixth, nineteen fifty four

871
01:01:16,035 --> 01:01:19,075
Speaker 1: was not the first four minute mile. If James Parrott

872
01:01:19,355 --> 01:01:23,195
Speaker 1: and the naked runner Powell of Hampton Court and Weller

873
01:01:23,315 --> 01:01:26,195
Speaker 1: seventeen ninety six don't convince you, there is also this

874
01:01:27,315 --> 01:01:31,115
Speaker 1: there is a sports historian named Peter Radford, himself the

875
01:01:31,155 --> 01:01:34,355
Speaker 1: bronze medalist in two sprints at the nineteen sixty Olympics

876
01:01:34,355 --> 01:01:37,075
Speaker 1: in Rome, and he brought the story of Parrot and

877
01:01:37,195 --> 01:01:40,555
Speaker 1: Powell and Weller to the forefront in the British press

878
01:01:40,635 --> 01:01:44,155
Speaker 1: nearly twenty years ago. This man found them because he

879
01:01:44,235 --> 01:01:46,515
Speaker 1: was looking for and finding the records of more than

880
01:01:46,595 --> 01:01:50,595
Speaker 1: six hundred running races in the eighteenth and nineteenth century.

881
01:01:50,995 --> 01:01:54,795
Speaker 1: Running against the clock, against each other, usually for money,

882
01:01:55,155 --> 01:01:58,595
Speaker 1: was not only the most popular professional sport in Britain

883
01:01:58,675 --> 01:02:02,475
Speaker 1: at that time, it was also probably the first. And

884
01:02:02,555 --> 01:02:06,115
Speaker 1: with so many races and especially winning and losing times recorded,

885
01:02:06,395 --> 01:02:10,835
Speaker 1: Peter Radford had data to work with. When guys didn't

886
01:02:10,995 --> 01:02:13,435
Speaker 1: run a four minute mile, how fast did they run it?

887
01:02:13,635 --> 01:02:17,315
Speaker 1: How fast were these professionals going the average ones over

888
01:02:17,595 --> 01:02:20,995
Speaker 1: other distances in say seventeen eighty nine, What was the

889
01:02:21,155 --> 01:02:25,235
Speaker 1: range of times? And his computer looked at all of

890
01:02:25,275 --> 01:02:28,315
Speaker 1: these races six hundred or so, and all of the

891
01:02:28,395 --> 01:02:30,715
Speaker 1: times and all of the speeds, and it spit out

892
01:02:30,755 --> 01:02:34,435
Speaker 1: this conclusion. Factoring in the margin of error, Radford wrote

893
01:02:34,475 --> 01:02:38,755
Speaker 1: the best possible one mile time would be anywhere between

894
01:02:39,155 --> 01:02:44,835
Speaker 1: four minutes, thirteen seconds and exactly four minutes. So no,

895
01:02:44,955 --> 01:02:48,235
Speaker 1: you cannot say James Parrott ran the first four minute

896
01:02:48,275 --> 01:02:51,515
Speaker 1: mile in seventeen seventy and Weller ran the first sub

897
01:02:51,635 --> 01:02:54,835
Speaker 1: four minute mile in seventeen ninety six, not with certainty,

898
01:02:54,915 --> 01:02:59,035
Speaker 1: but I think you can say with certainty that somebody

899
01:02:59,075 --> 01:03:01,915
Speaker 1: did it before the year eighteen hundred, and that when

900
01:03:02,035 --> 01:03:05,795
Speaker 1: Roger Banister crashed through the tape at Oxford at six

901
01:03:05,915 --> 01:03:09,235
Speaker 1: oh four Greenwich meantime on the evening of Thursday May sixth,

902
01:03:09,315 --> 01:03:14,635
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four, and the track announcer Norris McWhorter announced

903
01:03:14,635 --> 01:03:17,595
Speaker 1: that Roger Banister's time in the mile was and he

904
01:03:17,635 --> 01:03:21,875
Speaker 1: gave it a desperately long pause, by all accounts, three

905
01:03:21,995 --> 01:03:26,675
Speaker 1: minutes fifty I an unfall ten seconds the moment that happened,

906
01:03:26,955 --> 01:03:30,995
Speaker 1: Roger Banister became at best the second man to run

907
01:03:31,035 --> 01:03:35,075
Speaker 1: a mile in four minutes or less, but more likely

908
01:03:35,115 --> 01:03:39,235
Speaker 1: he was like the twenty second or the two hundred

909
01:03:39,275 --> 01:03:44,835
Speaker 1: and twenty second. So why why didn't anybody know this?

910
01:03:45,595 --> 01:03:50,075
Speaker 1: Why did Roger Banister live a life of unceasing, undiminished

911
01:03:51,035 --> 01:03:55,955
Speaker 1: and sorry, undeserved fame. And that guy Weller, who may

912
01:03:55,955 --> 01:03:58,235
Speaker 1: have run the race a second faster and one hundred

913
01:03:58,275 --> 01:04:00,795
Speaker 1: and fifty eight years earlier. Why don't we even know

914
01:04:01,035 --> 01:04:07,955
Speaker 1: Weller's first name? All sports are based on history. Records

915
01:04:07,995 --> 01:04:10,355
Speaker 1: are made to be broken. The older the record, the

916
01:04:10,435 --> 01:04:14,235
Speaker 1: louder the break. Who screwed this up? How did we

917
01:04:14,355 --> 01:04:18,315
Speaker 1: lose Weller in the nooks and crannies of history. We

918
01:04:18,355 --> 01:04:22,835
Speaker 1: didn't lose them. It wasn't an error. It was deliberate.

919
01:04:25,035 --> 01:04:28,075
Speaker 1: And that's where this gets to be a crime. Our

920
01:04:28,355 --> 01:04:32,635
Speaker 1: historian and ex Olympic runner mister Radford quoted another ancient book,

921
01:04:32,795 --> 01:04:37,435
Speaker 1: British Rural Sports by J. H. Walsh, which was published

922
01:04:37,435 --> 01:04:40,955
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty eight, and in it all the dozens

923
01:04:40,955 --> 01:04:45,235
Speaker 1: of speed and distant events had two sets of records,

924
01:04:45,235 --> 01:04:49,235
Speaker 1: one for professionals like Parrot and Powell and Weller, the

925
01:04:49,235 --> 01:04:52,475
Speaker 1: ones who ran for money, the ones on whom people bet,

926
01:04:52,755 --> 01:04:55,275
Speaker 1: the ones who bet on themselves. There was that set

927
01:04:55,275 --> 01:04:57,475
Speaker 1: of records, and then another set of records which was

928
01:04:57,515 --> 01:05:01,995
Speaker 1: given far more weight and far more importance for the amateurs.

929
01:05:03,075 --> 01:05:06,315
Speaker 1: By the early twentieth century, Adford wrote, the professional records

930
01:05:06,515 --> 01:05:11,955
Speaker 1: had been erased from these books, expunged, not forgotten, removed.

931
01:05:12,835 --> 01:05:17,155
Speaker 1: Why because the professionals were far better than the amateurs.

932
01:05:18,115 --> 01:05:20,395
Speaker 1: No amateur held the record in the mile. It was

933
01:05:20,435 --> 01:05:25,235
Speaker 1: all professionals, but the amateurs were in charge. They were

934
01:05:25,275 --> 01:05:28,035
Speaker 1: the British upper class. They raced not for money, but

935
01:05:28,115 --> 01:05:31,715
Speaker 1: for sport. So the amateurs simply did what the upper

936
01:05:31,755 --> 01:05:34,795
Speaker 1: class always does in this situation. They erased the records

937
01:05:34,795 --> 01:05:37,555
Speaker 1: of all the professionals. And oh, by the way, they

938
01:05:37,595 --> 01:05:43,195
Speaker 1: also erased all records set by women. The British obsession

939
01:05:43,755 --> 01:05:47,795
Speaker 1: with the superiority of the amateur over the professional. If

940
01:05:47,835 --> 01:05:50,315
Speaker 1: you've ever seen the movie Chariots of Fire, you already

941
01:05:50,355 --> 01:05:53,475
Speaker 1: know exactly what I mean. It spread throughout the world

942
01:05:53,595 --> 01:05:56,475
Speaker 1: through the Olympics. That's why Jim Thorpe lost all his

943
01:05:56,515 --> 01:05:59,595
Speaker 1: gold medals from the nineteen twelve Games. Why the greatest

944
01:05:59,635 --> 01:06:03,075
Speaker 1: all around athlete ever died in poverty because he had

945
01:06:03,075 --> 01:06:05,955
Speaker 1: once played minor league baseball well to make some money

946
01:06:05,955 --> 01:06:08,075
Speaker 1: in the summer, and everybody knew about it, and nobody

947
01:06:08,115 --> 01:06:11,235
Speaker 1: thought they'd hold it against it, But then they held

948
01:06:11,235 --> 01:06:14,595
Speaker 1: it against him. He was a professional, so his records

949
01:06:14,635 --> 01:06:19,075
Speaker 1: did not count like James Parrott or fill in the

950
01:06:19,075 --> 01:06:23,435
Speaker 1: blank here, Powell or I don't remember his first name Weller.

951
01:06:25,355 --> 01:06:29,435
Speaker 1: So the world record in the mile as of the

952
01:06:29,515 --> 01:06:33,035
Speaker 1: year eighteen sixty one was credited to a man, an

953
01:06:33,075 --> 01:06:38,235
Speaker 1: amateur named Matthew Green. Matthew Green was the fastest man

954
01:06:38,275 --> 01:06:44,075
Speaker 1: in human history four minutes and forty six seconds, four

955
01:06:44,115 --> 01:06:47,915
Speaker 1: minutes and forty six seconds. In my twenties, I might

956
01:06:47,955 --> 01:06:51,795
Speaker 1: have come close to that number. By nineteen thirteen, the

957
01:06:51,835 --> 01:06:55,635
Speaker 1: International Amateur Athletics Federation had taken over, and it recognized

958
01:06:55,675 --> 01:06:59,515
Speaker 1: a runner from Cornell, not me, a different runner from Cornell,

959
01:06:59,715 --> 01:07:02,115
Speaker 1: as the all time outdoor record holder in the mile

960
01:07:02,475 --> 01:07:07,275
Speaker 1: four minutes and thirteen seconds, Paul Jones, one hundred and

961
01:07:07,315 --> 01:07:11,075
Speaker 1: forty three years after James Parrot. The indoor record in

962
01:07:11,115 --> 01:07:13,595
Speaker 1: the mile was then held by a man named Abel

963
01:07:13,675 --> 01:07:19,275
Speaker 1: Kiviat four eighteen and two. I met Abel Kiviat. I

964
01:07:19,355 --> 01:07:22,715
Speaker 1: interviewed him when he was ninety. I wish I had

965
01:07:22,755 --> 01:07:25,355
Speaker 1: known about James Parrot. Then I didn't. Abel and I

966
01:07:25,395 --> 01:07:28,355
Speaker 1: talked about his roommate at the nineteen twelve Olympics. Jim

967
01:07:28,395 --> 01:07:31,515
Speaker 1: Thorpe got to tell you that story sometime too, But

968
01:07:31,675 --> 01:07:33,835
Speaker 1: boy Able Kiviat and I could have had a conversation

969
01:07:33,875 --> 01:07:36,715
Speaker 1: about amateurs versus professionals. And whether or not his record

970
01:07:36,755 --> 01:07:40,675
Speaker 1: was actually a record. Anyway, you can see where this

971
01:07:40,835 --> 01:07:43,515
Speaker 1: is all going, and we are almost at our proverbial

972
01:07:43,555 --> 01:07:46,995
Speaker 1: finish line. Not only did history forget the great athletes

973
01:07:46,995 --> 01:07:49,355
Speaker 1: of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries like Parrot and Powell

974
01:07:49,395 --> 01:07:51,395
Speaker 1: and Weller, who if they did not break the four

975
01:07:51,395 --> 01:07:53,835
Speaker 1: minute mile, they came damn close and did a lot

976
01:07:53,915 --> 01:07:57,195
Speaker 1: better than my friend Abel Kiviat did, or my Cornell

977
01:07:57,235 --> 01:07:59,835
Speaker 1: guy John Paul Jones, to say another, of Matthew Green

978
01:07:59,955 --> 01:08:02,115
Speaker 1: four minutes and forty six seconds, What did you do

979
01:08:02,275 --> 01:08:08,155
Speaker 1: stop for lunch? Not only were the remarkable athletes like

980
01:08:08,315 --> 01:08:14,035
Speaker 1: Parrot and Powell and Weller forgotten, they were buried deliberately.

981
01:08:15,355 --> 01:08:18,435
Speaker 1: It makes the subject of the Roger Banister four minute

982
01:08:18,475 --> 01:08:25,395
Speaker 1: mile that everybody celebrates with almost undiminished astonishment every year

983
01:08:25,435 --> 01:08:28,075
Speaker 1: at this time. It makes all this a little less

984
01:08:28,235 --> 01:08:33,755
Speaker 1: trivial and a little bit more nefarious and wrong and ugly.

985
01:08:36,115 --> 01:08:39,315
Speaker 1: Speaking of Ugly and Banister, there is one other component

986
01:08:39,355 --> 01:08:42,235
Speaker 1: to this story. In the nineteen nineties, having been the

987
01:08:42,235 --> 01:08:45,875
Speaker 1: god of the four minute mile for four decades, having

988
01:08:45,915 --> 01:08:48,435
Speaker 1: been celebrated every day for breaking a record that was

989
01:08:48,475 --> 01:08:51,475
Speaker 1: probably broken one hundred and eighty three years before Roger

990
01:08:51,555 --> 01:08:55,195
Speaker 1: Banister was asked about the new generation of runners, those

991
01:08:55,715 --> 01:09:00,875
Speaker 1: of African descent. On September twelfth, nineteen ninety five, Sir

992
01:09:00,995 --> 01:09:06,275
Speaker 1: Roger Banister explained, quote, it's certainly obvious when you see

993
01:09:06,315 --> 01:09:08,715
Speaker 1: an all black sprint final that there must be something

994
01:09:08,795 --> 01:09:12,955
Speaker 1: rather special about their anatomy or physiology which produces these

995
01:09:12,955 --> 01:09:16,235
Speaker 1: outstanding successes. And indeed there may be, but we don't

996
01:09:16,235 --> 01:09:19,675
Speaker 1: know quite what it is. Some countries have the good

997
01:09:19,715 --> 01:09:22,875
Speaker 1: fortune to have a high proportion of black sprinters and hurdlers.

998
01:09:23,635 --> 01:09:29,875
Speaker 1: End quote. Nineteen years later, Banister was still driving right

999
01:09:29,955 --> 01:09:33,075
Speaker 1: into the Eugenics lane, sounding just enough like Jimmy the

1000
01:09:33,115 --> 01:09:37,315
Speaker 1: Greek Snyder to make you squirm. I love watching people

1001
01:09:37,355 --> 01:09:41,235
Speaker 1: like Usain Bolt, Banister said. The West Africans, of course,

1002
01:09:41,275 --> 01:09:45,435
Speaker 1: have an inbuilt advantage, having been transported as slaves to

1003
01:09:45,515 --> 01:09:49,675
Speaker 1: the West Indies, only the toughest endured. They have astonishing

1004
01:09:49,795 --> 01:09:56,795
Speaker 1: muscle composition, with those fast fibers and superior genes. I

1005
01:09:56,835 --> 01:10:00,475
Speaker 1: will leave it to you and to his maker. An

1006
01:10:00,475 --> 01:10:03,915
Speaker 1: assessment of how much of Roger Banister was patronizing, how

1007
01:10:03,995 --> 01:10:06,355
Speaker 1: much was him trying to rationalize how his time had

1008
01:10:06,395 --> 01:10:10,515
Speaker 1: been bettered by nearly ten percent, and how much of

1009
01:10:10,555 --> 01:10:13,835
Speaker 1: it was just sheer racism. But I will note that

1010
01:10:13,875 --> 01:10:16,595
Speaker 1: in what Banister said is another reason to believe that

1011
01:10:16,635 --> 01:10:20,155
Speaker 1: the idea that he was the first human to run

1012
01:10:20,195 --> 01:10:25,715
Speaker 1: a four minute mile is laugh out loud ridiculous. What

1013
01:10:25,875 --> 01:10:31,235
Speaker 1: about all of the runners of color over the centuries,

1014
01:10:32,075 --> 01:10:36,835
Speaker 1: over the millennia, in Africa and South America and elsewhere

1015
01:10:36,915 --> 01:10:42,755
Speaker 1: on this globe. By Banister's own disturbing logic, certainly some

1016
01:10:42,995 --> 01:10:46,275
Speaker 1: of them must have beaten him to breaking the four

1017
01:10:46,355 --> 01:10:53,115
Speaker 1: minute tape. No, let me close with this. I don't

1018
01:10:53,155 --> 01:10:56,595
Speaker 1: know for certain who ran the first four minute mile

1019
01:10:56,795 --> 01:11:00,515
Speaker 1: or when. For all we know, it was broken two

1020
01:11:00,635 --> 01:11:02,835
Speaker 1: thousand years ago, and for that matter, so was the

1021
01:11:02,875 --> 01:11:05,915
Speaker 1: present world record of three forty three point thirteen. Might

1022
01:11:05,915 --> 01:11:08,595
Speaker 1: have been James Parrott or Powell or Weller whose first

1023
01:11:08,675 --> 01:11:11,395
Speaker 1: names we don't know, or someone so lost to history

1024
01:11:11,395 --> 01:11:13,555
Speaker 1: that we don't know their first name or their last

1025
01:11:13,635 --> 01:11:17,115
Speaker 1: name or their country. We don't know who it was.

1026
01:11:18,435 --> 01:11:21,635
Speaker 1: But no matter what you hear, or see or read

1027
01:11:22,155 --> 01:11:24,715
Speaker 1: in this Weekend Ahead, it's sure as hell was not

1028
01:11:25,035 --> 01:11:31,755
Speaker 1: Roger Banister, which brings us lastly to missus Roger Banister

1029
01:11:32,115 --> 01:11:37,955
Speaker 1: Moira Elva Jacobson Banister, daughter of a Swedish economist. According

1030
01:11:37,955 --> 01:11:41,195
Speaker 1: to Roger Banister, his wife didn't know a lick about sports,

1031
01:11:41,275 --> 01:11:46,635
Speaker 1: let alone about running, let alone about him running for

1032
01:11:46,755 --> 01:11:50,915
Speaker 1: a time. Roger Banister once said, my wife thought I

1033
01:11:50,955 --> 01:11:59,795
Speaker 1: had run four miles in one minute. You know, as

1034
01:11:59,795 --> 01:12:02,155
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this and researching that story, you

1035
01:12:02,235 --> 01:12:06,835
Speaker 1: might as well go with that four miles in one minute.

1036
01:12:06,955 --> 01:12:10,515
Speaker 1: It's no more ridiculous than thinking that Roger Banister was

1037
01:12:10,555 --> 01:12:13,915
Speaker 1: the first man to run one mile in four minutes.

1038
01:12:26,635 --> 01:12:28,515
Speaker 1: I've done all the damage I can do here. Thank

1039
01:12:28,555 --> 01:12:31,475
Speaker 1: you for listening. Countdown. Musical directors Brian Ray and John

1040
01:12:31,515 --> 01:12:34,995
Speaker 1: Phillip Schanel arranged, produced, and performed most of our music.

1041
01:12:35,395 --> 01:12:38,075
Speaker 1: Mister Ray was on the guitars, bass and drums, and

1042
01:12:38,155 --> 01:12:42,635
Speaker 1: mister Chanale handled orchestration and keyboards. It was produced by

1043
01:12:42,675 --> 01:12:46,475
Speaker 1: Tko Brothers. Other music, including some of the Beethoven compositions,

1044
01:12:46,555 --> 01:12:49,635
Speaker 1: arranged and performed by the group No Horns Allowed. The

1045
01:12:49,635 --> 01:12:53,475
Speaker 1: sports music is the Olderman theme from ESPN two, written

1046
01:12:53,475 --> 01:12:57,595
Speaker 1: by Mitch Warren Davis courtesy of ESPN Inc. Our satirical

1047
01:12:57,595 --> 01:13:00,355
Speaker 1: and pithy musical comments are by Nancy Fauss, the best

1048
01:13:00,355 --> 01:13:05,635
Speaker 1: baseball stadium organist ever. Our announcer was my friend Nancy Faust.

1049
01:13:06,115 --> 01:13:09,875
Speaker 1: Now that's a coincidence. Everything else was pretty much my fault,

1050
01:13:10,315 --> 01:13:13,475
Speaker 1: except all the stories about Roger Banister. Those were not

1051
01:13:13,635 --> 01:13:16,355
Speaker 1: my fault. That's countdown for this the one hundred and

1052
01:13:16,395 --> 01:13:20,275
Speaker 1: eighty third day until the twenty twenty four presidential election

1053
01:13:20,635 --> 01:13:24,235
Speaker 1: and the one two hundred and eighteenth day since Dictator

1054
01:13:24,315 --> 01:13:28,395
Speaker 1: Jay Trump's first attempted coup against the democratically elected government

1055
01:13:28,395 --> 01:13:32,355
Speaker 1: of the United States. Use the justice system, use the

1056
01:13:32,395 --> 01:13:37,075
Speaker 1: mental health system, use the not regularly given elector objection option,

1057
01:13:38,075 --> 01:13:42,555
Speaker 1: Use the Donald the Walrus Nos Sleepies bit to stop

1058
01:13:42,675 --> 01:13:48,595
Speaker 1: him from doing it again while we still can. The

1059
01:13:48,635 --> 01:13:51,995
Speaker 1: next scheduled countdown is tomorrow. Bulletins as the news warrants

1060
01:13:52,155 --> 01:13:55,795
Speaker 1: till then, I'm Keith Olribbon, Good morning, good afternoon, good night,

1061
01:13:56,475 --> 01:14:14,155
Speaker 1: and good luck. Countdown with Keith Olderman is a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.